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Jan. 10, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:05
20230110_piers-morgan-uncensored-spare-hits-the-shelves
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Harry's Extinction Burst 00:05:37
The air and the spare, there was no judgment about it, but also no ambiguity.
I was the shadow, the support, the plan B.
I was brought into the world in case something happened to Willie.
I was summoned to provide backup, distraction, diversion, and, if necessary, a spare pot.
Oh, did him, you big baby.
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, the world gags and grimaces as hypocrite Harry's poisonous memoir finally hits the shelves.
It's apparently the fastest-selling non-fiction book ever.
But it's in the wrong category, isn't it?
Non-fiction.
Most of it's a load of, well, I won't say, family television.
But as anger rises on both sides of the Atlantic, how much longer can he cling on to his royal titles?
In another interview we had today, Harry says his Taliban kills boast was just part of his healing journey.
But has he actually put our armed forces at greater risk?
We'll debate that with the man who killed Osama bin Laden.
Plus, as Prince William reportedly claims Harry was brainwashed by his therapist and is mentally unwell, self-help superstar Paul McKenna will be here to say how he can heal poor Harry.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well, good evening from London.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored, only day two of my return.
I'm already utterly exhausted by Harry.
It doesn't stop, does it?
Just interview after interview after series after it's just never ending.
Anyway, his venomous memoir, Spare, or Spare Me as I renamed it, finally hit the shelves today.
Between the copy sold by Mistake in Spain, the orders posted early by Amazon, the endless press leaks and the multiple TV interviews, there aren't many surprises left for viewers, but the reviews are in and they're not great for poor Harry.
Woke Bible The Guardian savages it as a flawed attempt to reclaim the narrative which deals in the tropes of tabloid storytelling even as it lambasts them.
The New York Times, normally in spasms of ecstasy when there's a chance to bash Britain, says there's only so many revelations the public can stomach.
I think we may have exceeded that, judging by the groan in my guts this evening.
And the latest opinion polls show that almost two-thirds of Britons now have a negative view of a man who until recently was one of the most popular royals in the country.
He's at a record low.
I'll be surprised.
The more he talks, the more we grimace.
He's a transatlantic turnoff, about as popular as, well, a frost-bitten Todger, to quote him.
Tonight, Harry's on the latest leg of his royal trashing tour in America, guzzling tequilas, joking about his favourite sandwich on the late show with Stephen Colbert, and with his most grisly and graphic claims already revealed, today's eager readers are feasting on, well, stuff like this.
At last, someone said it was time for the concert to begin.
Off you go, follow your father.
Concert?
Pa?
Impossible to believe.
Even more impossible while it was actually happening.
But I saw it with my own eyes.
Pa gamely nodding to the beat and tapping his foot.
If you want my future, forget my past.
If you want to get with me, better make it fast.
After on the way out, there were more flashes.
This time, the Spice Girls weren't there to deflect attention.
It was just Pa and me.
Why does he sound like Gordon Ramsay?
Have you noticed?
The audiobook is very Gordon Ramsay.
But ironically, the wannabe, which was the Spice Girls anthem, that's pretty much what he's become, right?
He's a wannabe reality star.
He wants to be a male Kardashian, doesn't he?
He's now on the late-night talk show circuit in America, guzzling tequilas and telling stupid jokes and having the Mickey taken out of corgis.
He's become just a joke.
But he's a senior royal still, an ambassador for Britain, part of one of the most respected institutions in the world.
Now he's just a gossiping gutter snipe selling out his family to the highest bidders.
Harry calls the tabloids, and full disclosure, I edited tabloid newspapers here very proudly for 10 years.
He calls tabloids the devil.
But it's his smirking face on the cover of all the UF tabloids, which he's done interviews with.
My story, my words.
The problem is that Harry's story has more holes than a crumpet.
He rails against the tabloids whilst tossing them lurid stories about sex, drugs, frostbitten todges and family dramas to sell copies of his book, about mounting older women around the back of pubs, about his brother being circumcised.
He's the poster boy for privacy.
He's betrayed the privacy of his closest family.
The truth, the real truth, not his, my truth, is that Harry doesn't have a problem with the press.
His problem is not being able to control the press.
Harry has gambled everything on this bitter attempt to bully the media and the public and his own family into believing his version of history.
But unlike the growing list of media devils that he sold his own soul to, we're just not buying it.
Well, joining me now is the journalist and royal author Tina Brown, talk to you of East Paula Ron Adrian, and Richard Tice, plus Sunday Times Royal Editor Roy Nicker and DamonO.com columnist Maureen Calligan across the pond in America.
So welcome.
This is probably the greatest panel ever assembled and quite rightly too.
Let me start with the Queen of Royal Books.
The Queen actually of magazine editing as well.
The Child Story Retraction 00:15:00
The queen in many different spheres.
Tina Brown, I really wanted you on the show about this because it's been rumbling on now for a long time.
What is your summary of where we are with Harry?
Well, the interesting part is, you know, there's an expression in psycho therapy, which is the extinction burst, right?
That when sometimes patients sort of act it all out, like throw it all out, and it just, that's it.
It's an extinction burst and then they're calm.
So the question is, you know, is this the Harry's extinction burst?
But the problem is with him, is that he's so much in his own bubble that he's not thinking about or caring really about how these bullets land.
I mean, you know, he is right now like in his Apache helicopter, like firing these, you know.
But here's the thing.
He regarded the Taliban as, as he says, very unattractively as sort of just objects, things on a chest.
But the people he's hurling these bullets at this time, I mean, these are real people, like they are his family.
So how does he imagine that this extinction burst can now be followed with reconciliation?
Because it's like they've been left like bleeding and like reeling and, you know, helicopters, you know, sort of propellers going in their face.
How can they be ready for a re-he's basically said, I'm going to just like annihilate you all.
Now I'm ready to reconcile.
It's very strange.
Well, to me, it's a complete joke.
Just bring in Roya.
I mean, Roya, you're very plugged in with the royals and the palaces.
What has been the reaction of the royal family?
I mean, just a little bit that I know is that they're utterly staggered by what they've been reading and hearing, deeply hurt and incredibly angry.
And in Prince William's case, very, very, very angry.
Piers, I would say, all of the above.
Pretty dismayed, I think, by the level of detail that Harry's chosen to go into.
And I think, you know, one of the sort of ongoing themes here, and I've really felt it as I've read the book and these extraordinarily personal conversations with members of his family emerge.
You sort of wonder how he might have reacted if the shoe been on the other foot and members of his family had, you know, put it into a book, those kind of conversations.
The royal family are pretty cross, pretty angry, pretty devastated and upset.
But I do really think that they will still continue to absorb all of this and keep on and carry on silently.
I don't think we're going to get any kind of big on the record reaction.
I think the hope with the royal family is this, you know, when Harry's finally done his last interview, whenever that might be, this will burn out and then possibly reconciliation may begin.
But that's not going to happen anytime soon, I don't think.
I can't imagine it happening at all.
This was my family.
I'd never want to see that person again.
Let's bring in Maureen across the pond in America.
I mean, there's a kind of split view, really, about, I think younger Americans perhaps feel a bigger affinity with this kind of thing.
They like the outpouring of emotion and all the rest of it.
But most Americans I've spoken to over the age of about 30 share my own revulsion about this constant, constant attack on the royal family by one of their own.
Yeah, you know, Piers, it's interesting.
I'm not seeing really a divide by age group.
I think what we're seeing, especially in the aftermath of the Bradby interview, the 60 Minutes interview, the Strahan interview, and now he's on the cover of People here in the States, is an actual overwhelming backlash to the sheer number of lies he's been caught telling.
You know, to see him tell Tom Bradby, well, we never said the royal family was racist, with a stray face, and blame the British press when we have all spent the past two years litigating and relitigating what is wrong in the house of Windsor,
you know, and to do this, to allow this lie, this odious lie to stand when your grandfather is on his deathbed, when your grandmother is in ailing health, when you're talking about legacy-destroying accusations, how no journalist could push back and say, Harry, why during any moment during the past two years, did you not raise your hand and say, you know what, media, you got it wrong.
For someone who loves to tell the media how much they got it wrong, this particular hypocrisy to me is beyond.
I completely agree with you.
I want to play the whole clip in context so that we can judge it for ourselves.
This is actually what Meghan Markle said to Oprah Winfrey.
And also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.
What?
About how dark your baby is going to be?
Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
Hold it, hold up.
There are several points.
There are several conversations.
There's a conversation with you.
With Harry.
About how dark your baby is going to be?
Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
Ooh.
And you're not going to tell me who had the conversation?
I think that would be very damaging to them.
Okay.
Compartmentalized conversations.
I'm not sure.
I'm not concerned that if you were to brown, that that would be a problem.
Are you saying that?
I wasn't able to follow up with why, but if that's the assumption you're making, I think that feels like a pretty safe one.
No, that's a pretty straightforward charge of racism against whoever said that.
Heard it from the horse's mouth, Megan Markle.
This is what her husband, Prince Harry, said to ITV.
In the Oprah interview, you accuse members of your family of racism.
You don't even...
Well, the British press said that.
Right.
Did Meghan ever mention they're racist?
She said there were troubling comments about about his skin colour.
Right.
Wouldn't you describe that as essentially racism?
Not having lived within that family.
Right.
So to me, utter delusion, disingenuousness, or maybe outright lies.
And I've got a vested interest because I queried all this at the time.
And as a result of me questioning this, what may be a pack of lies, I had to leave my job, a Good Morning Britain.
And none of this appears in the book.
Isn't that amazing?
This is his life story.
This was the biggest thing that has blown up in his life.
Him and his wife accusing the royal family of racism.
And not a word of it appears in his book.
Nor is there a single word about the other thing I challenged, which was I did not believe that Meghan Markle wasn't questioning her suicidal thoughts.
That's for her to determine whether she had those or not.
But she specifically said she went to somebody at the palace and asked for help and was told she couldn't have any help.
This is while her husband's on speed dial to his own therapist to get help after his brother chins him.
So none of this adds up.
Let's bring in Paula.
Paula, this to me is, I think this is incredibly serious because I think what you have here is a retraction with weasly words about what we all heard with our own eyes and our own ears that went around the world for the next two years that this family was racist and harbouring someone in their midst who, as Oprah said, there were concerns that if he were too brown, that would be a problem.
Are you saying that?
I wasn't able to follow up with why, but if that's the assumption you're making, I think that preels a pretty safe one.
That is a charge of racism.
It's not unconscious bias.
It's saying there's a racist at the palace.
Piers, there are just so many issues here that I want to try and get through with you really quickly because I know I'm going to be shouted down.
No, you're not.
I'm told that I'm racism.
No, no, I'd love to hear you try and explain why what I've just said is wrong.
There's nothing about me trying to explain.
It's very easy to explain.
It's very easy for a person of colour to explain that he didn't say racism.
She didn't say racism.
The issue was about the colour of the child's skin.
Now, I can tell you that in many, many family homes where there is a person of colour, the issue of the child's skin colour is going to come up.
That is not shocking.
Is that racism?
That is not racism.
So why for two years did they let me know?
Do you see what's happening?
No, no.
I'm just asking you.
No, I'm allowed to ask you a supplementary question.
That is not racist.
If that's not racism, why did they allow, despite having a massive PR team, two years of racism headlines to fly against the family?
Let me finish answering the first question.
Why is it not racism?
Because depending on the context, and it's always about context.
It's always about nuances.
There is no context.
It always is about how you read a situation.
I could have a conversation with Richard about the skin colour of our child.
You could have a conversation with Richard about the skin colour of our child, and it could be in a completely different conversation.
But we don't know.
We don't know the context because they haven't revealed.
But hang on.
Hang on.
I do know that Megan felt that it was in a negative way.
Megan wasn't even there.
Now, that doesn't mean...
Megan wasn't even in the room.
But she's only talking about her feelings.
And she said it happened when she was pregnant.
Harry said it happened when they first got together.
That's a two-year gap.
I didn't believe it at the time.
I don't believe it now.
I think it's a pack of lies designed to denigrate and smear the royal family.
I'm sorry, I feel very angry on behalf of the royal family for these lies that were smeared.
And now it doesn't even make a paragraph in his book.
In Harry's interview with Tom Bradbury, he said that when William and Kate met with Meghan, or just before they met, forgive me, they raised concerns.
And he felt that they were going to be concerned about the fact that she was the stereotypes, the fact that she was American, the fact that she was an actress, and the fact that she was biracial.
Why would there be a concern about that?
Piers, let's be frank about this.
This is an institution that costs the taxpayer £102 million a year, where we have seen that there have been issues in relation to whole...
They make more money from... Racism.
They make more money from tourism than they cost us.
And how they tackle the approach that they have.
What's racism?
You just said there wasn't any.
Okay.
And we know that there is an issue because Harry's raised it.
We know that there's Filani and Gozi.
And what happens when she raises it?
Paula Paula.
The two people who have raised the issue of racism, what has happened to her.
Paula.
They have been vilifying the history of the world.
Can't just keep talking and not have me interrupt.
In Goz and Filani.
She was the one who's had the death threats.
She is the one who's had to shut down her charity.
It was Lady Susan Hussy got fired within 24 hours.
And why?
Why did she need to get fired?
Well, it's now a very good question.
If even Prince Harry says it wasn't racist, I'm not quite sure why.
So we'll come back to that.
It's about education.
And that's what this is going to be about, education.
Keep talking.
Here it comes down to this.
There was no racism.
That's what we now know from his own mouth.
There was no race.
There was an issue with the child story.
They allowed the royal family to be smeared with the charge of racism.
Richard, to me, this is actually really disgraceful.
It's appalling.
And I'm afraid I completely disagree, Paula.
Megan deliberately left that interview hanging there.
And the couple left it hanging there for two years.
But the thing is here.
Didn't correct it in Manchester.
Six partners.
Six parts.
Netflix series.
But here's the point.
No sane or rational person could behave, could write, and could speak as Harry has done.
He has betrayed not only his close family, his father, his brother, he's betrayed the wider royal family.
He's betrayed the military and he's betrayed the British people.
It's the greatest of a trail.
You know what?
It's worse than that, Tina.
One of the things I found most offensive in the book, I read it all yesterday, was an extraordinary out-of-nowhere attack on a matron at Lovegrove Prep School where he was a young kid, who he calls basically ugly and greasy, didn't make any of the boys feel horny.
He then boasts about mocking her disability.
She had a spinal disorder, which meant that she walked in a very difficult manner.
And he used to mimic her and mock her.
This is a woman called Pat Jones.
I saw a couple of journalists who knew her who went to Lovegrove saying she was an old battle axe style matron of the old school, but was very much liked by kids.
This is Prince Harry in one of the biggest selling books ever, taking down this matron.
Yeah, take down people that can handle it.
But a matron at a prep school?
We don't even know if she's alive or not, but the family will be.
That in a sense was one of the sort of... I haven't got as far as you got through it, but that really stuck out to me as a sort of moment of truth of the hooray, Henry, that Harry was the truth, or is.
I mean, it's a typical sort of public schoolboy snickering, demeaning, like making fun of the, quote, you know, old bag who's the matron.
So very unattractive moment.
Actually, what fascinates me about this book is it seems to have had a complete absence of kind of a tone police sort of reading it.
It's so uneven.
Talking about mounting a woman rather than the back of a pub.
But it's so uneven.
And I think one of the big mistakes that he's made in this book, actually, is to not have it edited from the English company.
It's been edited from, I mean, they do, obviously, their edit, they anglify it.
But the actual sort of creative process was all done sort of from the American ghostwriter, who's a very, very good writer, but has none of that sensitivity to the sort of how it works.
I mean one example I would give, we had the fiori before Christmas of what Jeremy Clarkson wrote in his column about Meghan Markle.
He shouldn't have done it.
He conceded he shouldn't have done it.
The son apologised for what he did.
So we all can all agree that that was inappropriate and shouldn't have been done and was offensive.
But Harry, in his own book, tears into a female newspaper editor at the time, who now actually runs this company that is in charge of Talk TV, says she's a loathsome toad.
Everyone who knew her was in full agreement.
She was an infected pustule on the arse of humanity, plus a bleep excuse for a journalist.
I mean, he is incensed by any criticism of his wife or any bad way that people talk about her.
And yet he's prepared to take down this female editor with that kind of language, take down an innocent matron with the most horrible language, call Camilla, his stepmother, a dangerous villain, tear into poor old Kate, talk about her kid crying, all this kind of thing.
Maintaining Moral High Ground 00:09:58
You put it all together.
For a guy who's married to this supposed feminist, the way he talks about women throughout this book is pretty appalling.
It really required an editor to, you know, the thing that's interesting about Harry is, you know, he goes on and on.
He's always complaining about the palace, the Greymen in Suits.
Actually, the Greymen in Suits are very often very smart about keeping him, him and everybody else out of trouble, right?
They see the minds.
Yeah, they do see the minds.
Harry, sitting in Modesty Jail, has found what it's like to not have the palace platform, right?
The Palace platform are fantastic at sort of generating invitations.
He's got Sun Signs, Sunshine Sachs, the PR firm from LA.
And they think this is all great.
They don't have any sense of nuance.
They don't have a feeling of the cultural sort of fragilities.
They have no sense of what the military will think, what people will think.
It's a really clodhopping edit, I've got to say.
I totally agree.
And that comes from somebody whose own books are superbial, as you would expect from somebody who was a superb editor.
Let's keep all the pack here.
Now let's take a short break and come back and talk about, well, what should the royal family do?
Should they continue to never explain, never complain, which is the palace way for these things, or as some people think, should they come out fighting?
Should Charles just take his wife being buried in this way by his son?
Should William take his wife being attacked in this way by his own brother?
Should they come out on the attack?
We'll debate that afterward.
This is what Prince Harry said about the Lovegrove matron, Pat.
Pat was small, mousy, frazzled.
Her hair fell greasily into her always tired eyes.
Pat had many crosses to bear.
The biggest seemed her knees and spine.
The latter was crooked, the former chronically stiff.
We went on mocking her as she came down the stairs.
This is the king of woke, isn't it?
This is my thing about the woke brigade.
They're actually unbelievably unpleasant people.
They're unkind, not be-kind.
This woman exists.
Her name was Pat Jones.
I've no idea if she's still alive.
I'd love to know.
And if she is, how she feels about being trashed in this way.
Probably been talking about having to take care of Harry when he was young, proudly.
And this is how he repays her.
How do our family feel about this?
The guy's a shameless, disgusting hypocrite.
And has the gall to get all uptight about the way people talk about his wife.
Quite extraordinary.
Well, still, with the packet.
Let's go back to Roya Nicker from the Sunday Times.
Roy, a lot of people are urging the royal family to hit back in some way.
You've already suggested that they're unlikely to do that, but is there a tipping point here?
I mean, if Harry does just continue to spray gun the royals, chipping away at the mystique of the monarchy, causing real damage, particularly in America, which, of course, this country relies on for the tourism that comes from the affection for the royal family.
Could there be a tipping point where William, we've already seen him snap after the Oprah interview saying, this is most definitely not a racist family.
Could he come out again and say something, do you think?
I think that's what Harry would probably really want and really like.
But I just don't get a vibe that that's what they're going to do.
I think, you know, from all my discussions I've had with people close to the King and with William, my feeling is they want to just sort of do the, you know, show, don't, tell response.
And both the King and William and Kate are out on manoeuvres in the next couple of days.
And, you know, William will be braced for people shouting out things at him.
But where we heard him respond to the Oprah interview, he's now the Prince of Wales.
He understands sort of the difference of position.
I don't think we will hear him hit back.
And I think their view is that if there is going to be any likelihood of reconciliation, and I know it might not be something that you would do and your family, Piers, but the King is a father and I think he feels he doesn't want to cut his son off at some point, that will be done privately and not on the record with interviews and on the record statements.
Yeah, but Maury, how can they go?
Sorry to interrupt you, but how could they have a private meeting with somebody who, as you said, you've read the book like I have.
I was absolutely staggered by the sheer volume of private conversations he's put in the public domain, even after Prince Philip's funeral.
The intensely private conversation with Charles and William after that.
That's all in the book.
Private text messages from Kate and so on.
He's put everything out there.
Why would they trust him as far as I could throw him?
No, that's the big problem.
And, you know, I had a piece before Christmas where I was told that Harry Megan wanted to summit with the royal family and an apology and accountability.
And I put that to the royal family's people and there was sort of eyebrows going through the roof because of that very point.
You know, Netflix had just come out.
There is a major trust issue.
But I think if there is any sort of hope of a reconciliation, they will try, try and have some sort of manoeuvrings behind the scenes.
But I don't think there's going to be an on-the-record statement or any kind of hitting back.
And the other thing I'd say is the royal family always keep a very close eye on polls.
And the youGov polls this week speak for themselves in terms of Harry and Megan's popularity.
And I think at the end of the day, they know that Americans have their own minds.
And I think America would always have a special relationship with this country.
And I was in Boston with William and Kate when all the Netflix stuff was exploding.
And the Americans are still behind our royal family.
Yeah, well, I'll come back to Maureen about that.
I mean, I would have a summit with Harry, but at the Tower of London.
Maureen, this suggestion that America actually still remains in love.
I mean, to me, it was a huge moment when the Queen died as to how America might respond to King Charles.
They've all watched the Crown.
They all may have a jaundice view from that series about what he's like.
They may not have the affection and love that they have for the Queen, for example.
So it's been a big moment, I think, for us here as to how America responds.
Do you share that feeling that actually the love is still there for the royal family, for the monarchy?
Oh, 100%, Piers.
I mean, I think the more that Harry and Megan reveal themselves to be sort of the cretiness individuals they are, you know, when you talked about Pat, the matron at Ludgrove, you know, that passage, you know, had he at all expressed remorse for being such a horrible little kid, that would have turned it around, you know, but he seems to really revel in cruelty.
And one of the details in the book that struck me most that I thought was so heartless was against his own father, Charles, who we Americans know of his boarding school experience through the crown.
And he writes about Charles still carrying his worn childhood teddy bear with him as a sort of emotional support because he is still so wounded from his childhood bullying.
And I can just tell you, I mean, I wrote about this and the reader response we got, Charles rose in estimation with that detail.
That endeared him to people.
And Harry is just falling further and further out of favor.
He truly is digging his own grave.
I don't see why the royals would interfere with that.
I mean, Richard, the big question now is the coronation is coming up in May.
I don't think they should be allowed anywhere near the coronation because not only is Charles getting crowned, but so is his queen consort Camilla, who Harry's just shredded in his book.
Look, the reality is, Piers, the Royal Family have got to maintain the moral high ground you talked about.
Would you have them at the coronation?
I think they've got to be invited.
Why?
Because that's the moral high ground.
That's the mystique.
That's the magic.
That's the ultimate quality of what we talk about, the royal family.
So yes, they should be invited, but frankly, behind the scenes, it should be made very clear that they shouldn't attend.
But the family itself has to maintain the moral high ground.
And frankly, like a candle, let the couple just burn themselves out.
Paula, I mean, my question, which I think Anderson Cooper of CNN asked Harry, well, if you hate it all so much, the institution, the family, why do you want to keep your titles which attach you to this?
Just go and be yourself.
Well, that wouldn't make any difference was his response.
Actually, it makes a lot of difference financially to be able to call themselves the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and to turn up at things like the coronation and the Jubilee parades and so on.
Of course, that's their currency.
Without that, what are they?
They're just a pair of quacks in Montecito.
Shall I tell you what they are?
They are the people who have identified that this great institution has problems and that this great institution is not facing, is not confronting anyone.
We're talking about racism again.
We're talking about racism.
There is no racism.
We're talking about domestic abuse.
We've already said that.
We're talking about unconscious bias.
Domestic abuse.
We're talking about ignorance.
What's domestic abuse?
Well, we heard about the fight, didn't we?
Harry pushing him into a dog with William.
The bloat went to war in Afghanistan.
He's squealing about having his necklace broken and shoved in a dog.
We've heard about mental health issues.
Okay, let me ask you a question.
Paula, let me ask you.
How much important society need to be addressed?
Hey, these two have a foundation website called Archie Well.
It says it's about compassion.
That is the bedrock of what they stand for.
They've disowned all of her family apart from the mother.
The father lives 70 miles away.
He's never met his grandchildren.
Never met Harry.
Hang on, let me finish.
The father is trying to sell stories on his family.
The father made a big mistake for which he's apologised many times.
Okay, so he's allowed to make a mistake.
Let me finish.
They've disowned him and all of her other Markles.
They've all been disowned.
Now, all of his family got rid of all them as well.
Where's the compassion in anything?
He said he didn't write this book to hurt and harm them.
All he's done in the book is hurt and harm them.
The guy wouldn't know how to spell compassion.
He used to compassion what Madonna is to growing old gracefully.
Right?
Chess Pieces and Security Risks 00:08:15
Honestly, he is.
No, but I'm sorry.
And this idea that somehow we got domestic abuse because William rightly chinned him over being so insulting to his wife.
Or that we should care about their mental health when they don't give a stuff about the mental health of all the royal family they've been trashing.
Tina, final word to you.
I've answered the question, but Tina, I respect you.
So I mean, look, it's...
It's the hypocrisy that makes me puke.
Yeah, but I think they should be invited to the coronation.
Yes, I do, actually, because I think that, you know, they have, as you said, Richard, they have to take the high ground.
They have to take the multi-generational sort of Chinese outlook to this situation.
I feel that actually, between the lines, Harry's lobbying like mad to get back into the action.
I mean, the fact that he is didn't mention anything about the whole racism thing in the book, obviously he has been told, you are crossed a red line.
If there's any more of this, Harry, you're out.
Or it simply didn't happen the way they said it.
I think he's trying to get back in.
The fact that he praised Susan Hussey, what was that about?
Yeah, complete bags.
That was a complete bone that he passed.
It was because he's a total hypocrite.
That's not the behaviour of a rational person.
No, it's not like that.
Well, I'm going to discuss that with Paul McKenna a little later.
He's an expert in that kind of behaviour.
What is it all about?
Has Harry lost his marbles?
We'll talk about that.
It'd been a great pack.
Thank you very much to Maureen, to Roya, Tina, Paul, and Richard.
Probably the greatest pack assembled in Royal Punditry history.
So thank you.
Coming next, after posting about his Taliban kills in Afghanistan, has Harry put a target on not just his back and his family's back, but the Royal Family's backs and his former military colleagues' backs.
We'll debate that.
After the break with the man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden?
Well, Harry's decision to reveal the number of Taliban chess pieces he killed as an Apache pilot in Afghanistan has been condemned as a betrayal of the armed forces.
Here's a reminder in his own words.
I could always say precisely how many enemy combatants I'd killed, and I felt it vital never to shy away from that number.
Among the many things I learned in the army, accountability was near the top of the list.
So, my number?
25.
It wasn't a number that gave me any satisfaction, but neither was it a number that made me feel ashamed.
Well, I'm joined in the studio by Hanif Qadir, who's a consultant on counter-terrorism and a former member of al-Qaeda, the terror group.
Also joining us is Jim, the U.S. Navy SEAL and the man who shot Osama bin Laden, Rob O'Neill, and Colonel Richard Kent, the former commander in Afghanistan for the British Armed Forces.
So welcome to all of you.
Hanif Qadir, you're a former extremist at the start, really, of al-Qaeda's operations in Afghanistan after George Bush declared the war on terror, but you quickly renounced them after seeing what they did to civilians.
Absolutely.
And you've become now an expert in counter-terrorism and how to tackle this.
What impact do you think Harry's comments will have had?
Well, I think firstly, coming from a senior member of the royal family, he hasn't got the combination of qualities that one should expect.
Dignity, honour, courage, courtesy, justice, and compassion.
And his statements that he's made, pretty reckless and damaging.
Not only have they painted a bigger bullseye on the British Armed Forces, but anything to do with the institution, but also his own family as well.
And I think the statement that's come out of Afghanistan so far from Ana Saqqani, I mean, it's pretty modest, but we can expect that he's allowed the narrative to move a few more notches up, where we've been trying to counter that extremist narrative over the years.
And it's been pretty difficult.
The UK narrative, or let's say the British military narrative, has been quite effective so far.
But what have you gone and done?
He's just gone and annihilated it.
Well, let me bring in Colonel Kent.
I mean, you operated in Afghanistan, one of the commanders there.
Harry has told People magazine, it's a duty, a job, a service to our country.
I've done all I could to be the best soldier I could.
There's truly no right or wrong way to try and navigate these feelings.
But I know from my own healing journey that silence has been the least effective remedy.
Expressing and detailing my experience is how I chose to deal with it in the hopes it would help others.
What's your reaction to that justification?
Well, I think he's actually in the comments he's made.
I don't personally have a huge problem with him spelling out the numbers he's killed.
Everyone knows he was a crew member of an Apache attack helicopter whose job was to kill the enemy.
I don't have an issue with that.
The issue I have is with the way he's described British Army training to teach people like him that the Taliban and the enemy are less than human.
They're just chess pieces to be swept off the board, which is dangerous because it's wrong.
That's not the way the British Army is taught.
And it also shows the Army in a way that I think feeds straight into jihadist propaganda.
They'll use that.
They already have used it to show the lack of humanity of the British forces, the way the British forces did not treat fighters in Afghanistan as human beings.
And it will lead, I think, to radicalization and possibly to inciting Taliban and other jihadists to carry out attacks against British people here in this country and elsewhere in the world.
Well, Rob O'Neill, I mean, there's been a lot of backlash to this from the British armed forces, certainly.
Almost everyone I've seen has shared the view of Colonel Kemp that he shouldn't have gone down this avenue.
We know you as the man who heroically shot and killed the world's worst terrorist, Osama bin Laden, and thank you again for doing that.
We know that because you wrote about it yourself in a book, a great book, and you talk about other kills as well in there.
Do you intrinsically have any problem with what Harry has said here?
No, I don't have a problem with it at all, Pierce.
If he goes through the proper channels, which I hope he did, then there's nothing wrong with talking about what happens in war.
And as far as the history of war goes and for future generations, as long as it's the truth, and if you're telling the truth, you don't even remember anything else.
Having said they'd like chess pieces, I think that's giving him a compliment because it's not that complex.
The man's flying an Apache helicopter, a kill helicopter, and he's giving him a little bit of credit.
I mean, it's not like Islamists are going to like us any less or want to kill us more because of something Prince Harry said.
And it's, you know, the Haqqanis are saying it.
The Haqqanis have been jihadis and criminals, traffickers and drug pushers since the Russians invaded.
So it's not like they're great people either.
Yeah, I mean, he said what he said, and I think he was nice about it.
It was up to me, and they were actually terrorists.
I wish he would have killed more.
I mean, somebody said that there's a big difference between a British soldier or someone like you, for example, killing 100 Taliban and a member of the royal family killing one, that the amplification of the fact he's a member of the royal family doing this does put a bigger security risk target against the royal family, against him and his family now in California, and potentially against British troops because of who he is.
Well, like I was saying, I mean, there's been a target on them forever and there will be.
And, you know, it's not like if he'd said nothing, they could put their heads in the sand and pretend they're not targets.
They are targets.
I hope their security is on point.
I hope they're fine.
But the realization, there are people that are going to hate him and me and you just the same, as always.
And they're going to prop this up.
They're putting Afghanistan back on the map and Hellman Province, which is dangerous on the map.
But he said what he said, and I'm glad he said it.
And we can learn from what people did there.
If you had had a spat...
Have you got any brothers?
I don't know the answer to that question.
Yeah, I've got an older brother.
And as far as getting beat up, I'm going to talk about the title.
Well, I was going to ask you, if your older brother talked about it beating me up, if your older brother had knocked you into a dog bowl and broken your necklace, would you have ever put that into the public domain?
Or would you have felt that that would be probably the most shameful admission you could ever make?
Well, being a younger brother, like I said, I always, I tell my brother he was the reason I joined the Navy just so I'd come back and kick his butt.
And, you know, it all depends on the size of the contract.
If I need to rub some dirt on my brother to get some cash, who knows?
Finding Happy Steps Forward 00:08:12
What do you make, Rob, of this?
I mean, you're one of the most famous guys in America.
What do you make of this Harry and Meghan ongoing saga?
Do you care?
Well, you know, I am married and Jessica loves it, so I hear about it.
I had to tell her the other day, look, Jessica, as much as I'd love to talk to you about this, I'm out of talking points.
I don't care enough to do it.
I mean, I have never met either one of them, and I wish them the best.
It is entertaining once in a while, but I can't get into it that much when there's other things in life that are more important to me.
Do you ever think that maybe if King George III had not been so useless, we could have still had a royal family in America, possibly even King Piers by now?
You know, King Piers, I tell you what, if we want to make a campaign posters for 2024, put me in there with you, buddy.
I think I could have done a good job on the throne of America.
Robin Hill, great to talk to you.
Colonel Kemp, thank you very much.
Hanif Khadir, appreciate you coming in for your perspective.
Well, coming up next, can anyone heal Tormented Harry?
Well, if anyone can, Paul McKenna, hypnotist and behavioral scientist, will join me to discuss it.
Is he healable?
It's a big question.
Well, welcome back.
Prince Harry reveals he called his therapist immediately after being chinned by his brother William.
William for his part reportedly says therapy has brainwashed his brother.
Well, Paul McKenna, hypnotist and author of more than 20 books, including his latest, which is Freedom from Anxiety.
Very timely, I think.
Things that Harry's epic oversharing has done wonders for mental health.
Johnson now.
Welcome to you, Paul.
What do you make of it?
What state is Harry in to be doing all this?
Well, clearly the therapy he's doing isn't working.
He's doing a number of different things.
He does something called EMDR, eye movement desensitization reprogramming.
This it works.
It absolutely works for some people.
But the reason I don't use that is because I find that it doesn't stick.
And so that's just my personal finding.
Plus, also he's doing talking therapies.
And again, they work for a lot of people.
If you're getting things off your chest, it's good.
But after you've done that, you need to compartmentalize it, post-rationalize it.
If you just keep going over it again and again and again, and that's the tendency with talking therapies.
You know, I meet people who say, you know, they've been in therapy for 10 years and they'll say, they'll explain like a shrink.
They'll say, I've got a load of unresolved anger with my father, but it hasn't made any difference how they feel.
So, you know, if you look at him, sadly, I think he's very upset.
Well, I mean, that's the thing to me, is he keeps talking about how happy he now is.
I don't get a sense of anyone less happy than Harry right now.
He just looks miserable and angry and bitter and resentful and completely bemused by his constant attacks on his family would mean they don't want to talk to him.
Yeah.
Well, you see, he'd be telling himself, because let me put it like this.
Basically, the majority of people, they don't wake up each day and think, how can I hurt people or upset people?
You know, they actually think that they're well-intentioned.
And so he'll be saying to himself, his narrative will be that he's been victimized, he's been, you know, he's been wronged, et cetera.
And everything that's going on right now plays into that.
He talks a lot about his mother.
And obviously, it goes without saying it was an appalling thing to happen to him when he was just 12 years old.
But he's not the only person to lose a parent when he was young.
And he's now heading towards 40 and he's still going on and on and on about it.
Again, I just see slight alarm bells with that, that he can't seem to let anything go and is constantly recycling all these things in his mind.
Whereas people I know who've lost parents young, they do manage to move on.
They compartmentalize it, like you said.
Yes, I mean, so I've worked a lot with war veterans in the last few years with PTSD.
And some people, we say the past is always present.
They're literally, as you say, reliving it.
They're still in Iraq or they're still on a battlefield.
And they think about it all the time.
And it goes on in their mind.
So they're a prisoner, if you like, of their own thinking.
And other people are able, the ones that are functional, they can put it to one side, they can step out of it, and they can see it as though it was something that happened a long time ago.
Do you see Harry as being intrinsically dysfunctional at the moment in his behaviour?
He's functioning in as much as he's able to go to work and do things and he's a family man.
But what you just said is when I see him interview, he seems sad and he seems angry.
And those are not great places to live.
I mean, we all have to feel sad and angry at certain times in our life.
And he has been through a terrible trauma with the loss of his mother.
And it's amazing.
We all have a mechanism within us to get over things.
And some people get over things quickly and other people can take years.
Well, his own brother has taken a very different path, William.
He went through the same misery and hell.
He had to do the same thing that Harry did.
He's only three years older.
He's managed to go through it in a much better way, I would think.
Yeah, sometimes you find this with brothers or sisters.
They can both go through a traumatic incident and one of the siblings is fine, you know, and they just get on with life.
And the other...
And why is that?
Well, again, it's to do with the way that they processed it in their mind.
If one has compartmentalized it and they go, it's terrible, but I'm able to put it aside.
And these are the techniques I use with people.
You know, I'm not a fan of the...
Well, I don't use talking therapies with people very much where I sit and ask them about their past.
What I get them to do is to transform the way they think about it, recode it is the topic.
If you were here now with Harry, if you had a few hours with him, what would you do with it?
Well, the first thing is I, with anybody, I need to assess them.
I'd need to find out.
What I do is I step into their perspective and I try and see the world through their eyes.
So I would try and see how he's upsetting himself.
What is he saying to himself all day long?
You know, that these people are against him or that's a bad thing.
Or is he picturing over and over again movies of unhappy times and telling himself, you know, he can't get over it.
Those are the kind of things that people that are constantly distressed do.
And then what I would do is I would get him to step out of those memories and step into happy ones.
I get him to think about the future.
I get him to think about all the kind of good things.
I don't think he's getting that.
I think that his wife, Megan, is a bit like him.
They trade off this victimhood all the time, his sense of being victims.
And it's wrecking their lives.
It's not making them happy or free.
No, I think the thing with, you know, with being victimized is you get to feel virtuous, you to feel superior.
And, you know, nowadays, some people wear it like a badge.
Yes, it's a badge of honor.
It's something to be proud of.
I'm a victim.
Anxiety generally, I've noticed I've got three sons in their 20s.
So I see a lot of young people a lot around them, their friends and so on.
A lot of the younger ones have got a lot of anxiety issues.
Is it as simple as social media, which could be great, can also just hurl at young people, particularly things like Instagram and so on, constant imagery, either of a life that they can't have or of really disturbing imagery which flashes around social media, which you wouldn't have never seen 30 years ago.
Yes.
Is it a combination of these?
Absolutely.
It's totally a combination of that.
And, you know, the other thing is that we were talking in the break, you know, if there was, say, an incident, you know, where someone gets attacked by a crocodile, it's on TV.
It's, you know, what might or might not be.
Nowadays, you've got constant flow of images of negative things.
All day long.
And also all these people with, you know, filters on who look so perfect and you're supposed to be as good as them, so it makes you feel inferior.
I mean, we basically, Piers, we've come out of a biological pandemic.
We're in a psychological one right now.
Yes.
And anxiety.
What advice do you give, just quickly, to young kids who are feeling very anxious?
What's the best advice?
Well, I'm going to say that.
Read the book.
Get my book and also download the techniques.
You know, if people want to use a technique of mine for free, I've put a load of my trances up on my YouTube channel.
They could watch them there and then decide if it's for them or not.
You know what?
Good advice.
Read the book, Freedom from Anxiety, Paul McKenna.
been writing great stuff about all these kind of things for many years.
Great to see you.
Thank you.
Great to see you.
I hope the book does really well.
Thanks very much, Paul.
That's it from me.
What are you up to?
Keep it uncensored.
Good night.
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