Piers Morgan dissects Prince Harry's controversial book, condemning his boast of killing 25 Taliban fighters as a dangerous provocation and his mockery of a disabled matron as indefensible. The host and guests fiercely debate the contradiction between Harry's denial of racist intent and Meghan Markle's prior claims regarding Archie's skin color, labeling their redefinition of racism as gaslighting. Ultimately, the discussion paints Harry's narrative as a self-serving financial maneuver that risks his security, alienates allies, and likely excludes him from future royal duties like the King's coronation. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Family Racism Claims00:08:05
I love my father, I love my brother, I love my family, I always do.
Nothing of what I've done in this book or otherwise has ever been to any intention to harm them or hurt them.
Oh, shut up.
What a ridiculous thing to say.
Every single word of this book is designed to harm and hurt his family.
I've just spent four hours reading this trash-a-thon today.
It is unbelievable how much information Harry now reveals in the most intrusive invasion of royal privacy ever.
And it's him, the Prince of Privacy.
The guy has wanged on about it for decades, it seems.
How dare you invade my family's privacy when I want to do it for millions?
It is breathtaking.
Tonight on Piers Morgan on Sensor 8, it's good to be back.
But Prince Harry stuns the royals with, like I say, the most extraordinarily intrusive private revelations and personal attacks, condemning the Queen Consort Camilla, calling his father a useless father, boasting about Taliban kills, which no decent member of the armed forces ever does.
No detail is spared here.
He even reveals that William has been circumcised.
Quite extraordinary, isn't it?
What does this mean for the future of the British monarchy?
Well, Harry and Meghan's shocking claims of racism rocked the royal family.
Now Harry says it was all just a terrible misunderstanding.
So will they apologise?
Will they hand back their human rights award?
In the Oprah interview, you accuse members of your family of racism.
You don't even...
Well, oh, the British press said that.
Right.
Yeah, it wasn't the British press that said that.
It was your wife, Meghan Markle.
You remember her?
She's the one that said the royals have been racist about the skin colour of your unborn baby.
And you agreed and said it would be terribly damaging if you ever revealed who had done that.
Well, as Harry's crusade gets top billing in blockbuster TV interviews on both sides of the Atlantic, how much damage has he done to the monarchy and to Britain?
Or is it maybe his own reputation that's now beyond repair?
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well good lady from London, welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I took two weeks off and all hell broke loose.
But as usual, most of the hell is coming from Prince Harry's mouth.
He moved to California, rocking the foundations of the British monarchy.
It was about three years ago.
They quit now.
Seems like forever, doesn't it?
The claims he's made this week have detonated a bomb.
But this weapons-grade hypocrite has done nothing more than reduce his own reputation to rubble.
And after torching what's left of the bridges back to his family, he now begins a new personal journey, we're told, one that ends with ridicule and irrelevance.
The prince who fled Britain to protect his family's privacy has laid bare every tawdry detail of his private life, from drug abuse to intimate conversations with his father, the king, even at Prince Philip's funeral.
The dad who fears for the security of his family, apparently, has put a target on their backs now and on the backs of the royal family and on his former military colleagues with his stupid boasts about killing 25 Taliban or as he calls them chess pieces.
And the be kind ambassador, so earnestly invested in women's rights, brags about mocking a disabled matron at his prep school.
He names her.
She's called Pat.
He said she was greasy and too ugly for him to feel horny.
Think about that woman tonight having to deal with that in what will be one of the biggest red books of the year.
How does she feel if she's still around?
I don't know.
How do her family feel about that?
He also exposes how he lost his virginity, says he mounted some woman behind a pub and she spanked him on his ass.
Did he check that terminology with Meghan Markle?
Hasn't she just literally done a podcast series trying to eliminate sexist terminology from men?
Oh dear Harry.
The discarded son who just wants private clear-the-air talks with his family, if only he wasn't scared they'd be leaked, has now leaked everything.
And I mean everything.
I read it all today.
It is mind-blowing.
Most outrageously of all, Harry and Megan allowed claims to swirl about racism in the royal family for almost two years.
They made a six-hour documentary about it.
They accepted a human rights award last month for fighting structural racism in the royal family, all based on what they told Oprah Winfrey.
But now Harry's decided that apparently that's not what they meant at all.
In the Oprah interview, you accuse members of your family of racism.
You don't even...
The British press said that.
Right.
Did Meghan ever mention that they were racist?
She said there were troubling comments about.
But there was concern about his skin colour.
Right.
Wouldn't you describe that as essentially racism?
I wasn't not having lived within that family.
The way the British press reacted to that was fairly typical.
Neither of us believed that that comment or that experience or that opinion was based on racism.
I would like to apologise on behalf of the British press actually, because he is an unbelievable village idiot and I think it's all our fault.
Honestly, it's not the fact that he was useless at school and got no qualifications, which is why he's doing all this stupid stuff.
It's the British press's fault.
We're responsible for everything, including his ginger hair.
And I'd like to apologise for giving him ginger hair.
It's awful.
We should never have done it.
But let me get this straight on a serious point.
The racist British press, blamed for six hours straight of that Netfix bilge, for hounding Megan out of our racist country, driven at the top by a racist royal family.
Apparently, it's the press that's to blame for saying that Meghan Markle's claims of racism were claims of racism.
Now this had consequences, what they said to Oprah Winfrey.
I was forced out of my last job presenting Good Morning Britain, a job I really enjoyed, because I said I didn't believe these claims without firm evidence.
There wasn't any.
And now we get told it wasn't racism.
Exactly is what I suspected at the time.
Do I get an apology?
Does Sharon Osborne, one of my guests tonight, does she get restored to her job at the CBS show, the talk?
Because she got fired for offering support on Twitter for my right to my opinion, because apparently I'd said racist things.
It turned out those racist things were not believing Meghan Markle's racism claims.
Now they say they didn't mean racism.
So Desharon get her job back.
Will they give back that award that they got for their heroic battle against structural racism in the royal family?
Now we know there was no racism, structural or otherwise.
Across three new interviews and 416 whining pages of his book, Spare Me, as I call it, Harry lambasted the British press and his family for colluding with the British press.
His bitterness and bile for Camilla, the Queen consort, is shocking.
This is the love of his father's life, who he brands a dangerous villain.
How was she dangerous?
Because of the need for her to rehabilitate her image.
That made her dangerous.
That made her dangerous because of the connections that she was forging within the British press.
And there was open willingness on both sides to trade of information.
And with a family built on hierarchy, and with her on the way to being queen consort, there was going to be people or bodies left in the street because of that.
The Queen's Suffering00:15:57
Bodies left in the street, says the guy who boasted about killing 25 Taliban, actual bodies that he left in the street, and then boasted about it, which has now enraged the entire Muslim world.
But Camilla was apparently dangerous because she forged relationships with the media, says the man who's pocketed over $100 million by forging relationships with media entities like Netflix, Spotify, Oprah Winfrey, James Corden, CBS, ABC, and so it goes on.
He says his brother, the Prince of Wales, attacked him because he was riled by reading stories and metabloids, but also that his brother placed those stories and metabloids himself.
He slams a memoir by Dinah's butler Paul Burrell as one man self-justifying, self-centering version of events.
My God, the irony of this.
From a man who's literally just produced the single most self-justifying, centering, self-centering version of events imaginable.
And if we want any more evidence of Harry's complete loss of self-awareness and utter delusion, it's surely in that claim that the book was never intended to do any harm or hurt to his family.
You said you want your father and brother back.
Do you think that this book is going to bring them back or are they going to further divide you?
I have thought about it long and hard.
And as far as I see it, the divide couldn't be greater before this book.
But I genuinely believe that if me and my family can reconcile, can put our differences behind us, but first there needs to be conversation and accountability.
And if that doesn't happen, then that's very sad.
Compensation and accountability.
Is that a joke?
Is that a joke?
You're the one doing all the attacking.
You're the bully.
You're the one trashing your family in public.
Not the family that stayed silent throughout this onslaught.
It's been going on now for several years.
What's sad, Harry, is your public self-destruction and the remorseless way you savaged your own loved ones to airbrush yourself.
Please don't make my final days of misery, King Charles said to Harry after Prince Philip's memorial.
We know that because Harry's told us.
He's revealed that most excruciatingly private conversation with his father, our new king.
Imagine what he would have said if a tabloid newspaper had revealed that conversation.
It's disgusting.
How dare you invade my family's privacy?
This proves what I say about you all.
You're revolting.
Yeah, maybe.
But what does it make you know you've done exactly the same thing that you've been ranting about for years?
Harry and Meghan, let's be clear, have sold their royal souls for a life as reality stars, trading every private cough and splutter for cash.
The royal family has said nothing about this volley of abuse.
It's maintained a dignified silence, which I think is the correct response.
Because without the royal gravitas, without the titles, Harry and Meghan, well, what are they?
They're just another version of the Kardashians.
They've gone for broke with this latest installment of The Only Way is Sussex, but we might finally be closing in, hopefully, on the final episode.
Well, joining me in the studio is Talk TV presenter, Sharon Osborne, Vanity Fair Royal, as a cad from New York, Talk TV's Tricia Goddard and Princess Dinah's former butler, Paul Burrell.
So a stellar lineup to discuss all this.
Paul Burrell, let me start with you.
You, like most people, get a kicking in the book.
He dismisses you as self-serving, writing a book just to put one side of the point of view.
I mean, I had to laugh when I read that.
This is by a guy who's literally just done exactly that.
Yes, but Piers, you knew my story.
At the time, I was being trashed by everyone, and I went to the highest court in the land.
I had to survive.
I had to feed my family.
Everything I had was taken away from me.
Harry's in a totally different position.
He's an angry, petulant, privileged prince who constantly blames others for with no accountability on his part.
His mother would be absolutely appalled by don't only undermine himself, he's undermining his country, his family, the institution, which is the monarchy, which his mother was very proud of.
It beggars believe, I don't recognize the young man that I grew up with.
I don't recognize that man anymore.
I just don't know what's happened to him.
I think he's lost the plot completely, Piers.
This book shouldn't be called Sveri, it should be called Blame, because he's blaming everybody else but himself.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And also, I've never seen an unhappier-looking person who constantly tells us how happy he is.
This is not a happy man, he's bitter, bitter, bitter.
No, and there seems to be no end to the bitterness.
No, and you have to remember, our dear late queen had to suffer this too before she died because she also watched the Oprah Winfrey interview and thought, What on earth is happening here?
Why didn't Harry come and talk to me about this?
So she went to her grave, actually, not knowing the truth with great distress, which Harry compounded in her final days of her life.
Well, I think she, I honestly think the Queen will be turning in her grave reading all this stuff and reading the fallout.
Um, because not only did that Oprah Winfrey interview air literally a couple of days after Philip was taken to hospital, and as we later know, you know, died within several months, but the book has now come out within three months of the queen dying.
And there is his response to the death of our great monarch is within three months to do a book which causes severe damage to the institution that she represented so magnificently for over 70 years.
I totally agree.
And Piers, you remember those boys growing up.
You saw them grow up.
You came to Kensington Palace.
Now, in those days, Diana always had the fine word.
So I'm going to leave you with my words, which I think Diana would be saying right now.
She'd be saying to Harry, jumping up and down, wanting to be noticed, shh, Harry, be quiet.
Yeah, you do wonder who on earth is having that conversation with him.
Let's go to Tricia Goddard.
So, Tricia, you know, you were there on Good Morning Britain on the day, the well, the morning after the Oprah Winfrey interview aired.
We had a pretty lively series of exchanges on that show.
As you know, I left Good Morning Britain the next day because I was asked to apologize for disbelieving her claims of racism.
I said I wanted to see evidence of this so-called racism.
We now learn from Harry's own mouth that they did not call the royal family racist after all.
So, I'm not quite sure why I had to leave my job, are you?
Yes.
Well, go on, why?
Because they actually didn't use the words racist.
Oh, please.
And would you like me to finish?
No, I'll tell you what I want to do, Tricia.
Before you go any further, I want to play you what they said on Oprah.
Then you can repeat what you've just said.
Let's watch this.
And also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.
What?
About how dark your baby is going to be?
Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
What was that conversation?
That conversation I'm never going to share.
But at the time, at the time it was awkward.
I was a bit shocked.
Yeah, and the end of that first clip with Meghan Markles goes on to say that if the baby was too dark, that would be a problem.
Yes, you may think that.
So that, I'm afraid, Tricia, that is racist.
Hang on just a minute.
The charge is not a problem.
The charge was racism against the royal family.
At the time, they produced no evidence.
Her version of events was nearly two years after Harry's timeline.
Two years when this happened.
They've never named the royal member who said this stuff.
And now we get told casually it's not racism.
All right.
Can you just play that again?
Because there must be something wrong at my line.
I didn't hear either Harry or Meghan use the word racism.
I heard you use it.
I saw the press use it.
I didn't actually hear them use the word.
And that's what, when we had that robust exchange of words, I think what I said to you is that I do get fed up with other people labelling white people, labeling what is and isn't racist to black people.
Now, if they'd actually used the word racism on the body of the world.
Come off it, Trish.
Honestly, this is utterly ridiculous.
So what is racism?
I'll tell you what racism is.
I'll tell you what racism is.
I know I'm white.
I know I'm white.
Let me get it.
I know I'm white.
Piers Morgan's about to lecture a black woman about racism.
Tell me what's racism.
I'm about to give you an example of racism as a middle-aged white man who I know is the enemy to you.
Let me tell you what an example of racism is.
An example of racism would be somebody expressing concern about the skin colour of a baby from a mixed-race marriage.
And when the interviewer then says, well, if it was darker, that would be a problem.
Yes, you may think that.
That is an example of somebody expressing racism.
And that became the headline and narrative for the next two years after the interview.
And for you to shamelessly sit there and pretend that wasn't what they meant is utter bilge.
If there were more black people in the media, in the tabloid media, they may have had the opportunity to look into that and explain it a little bit more.
I didn't see it as racism.
I saw it, and that's why I got cross when you decided to label it lazy.
I didn't decide to do anything.
Well, when we were having a lot of people who were in the city, they literally confirmed to Oprah Winfield that a member of the royal family expressed concern about the skin colour of their baby.
And if the baby's skin colour was too dark, that would be a problem.
When a person attempts to talk about this in other than headline news, when I'm trying to have a reasoned conversation, I get shouted over.
Why is my experience or what black people experience?
Why do we have no currency?
No currency.
They've literally had front page about the racist royal family for two years.
How much more?
Because Meghan Markle.
No one has called the royal family racist.
I mean, I would say it's built on, built on the Commonwealth, and we already know Charles has had problems.
You know, they've talked about the crown that Camilla may or may not use because the history of one of the diamonds, the Cohenor diamonds and what have you.
We know that the royalty and many royal families around the world were built on the backs of slavery, racism, Commonwealth countries having goods stolen or taken away from them.
We know that.
Unfortunately, it's not taught in school.
Sorry, that's got nothing to do with the title.
Sorry, yeah, but with respect, that has nothing to do with it.
The history is racist.
You can't just speak endlessly without me jumping in.
Sorry.
With great respect to you, you can't just keep talking.
I'm allowed to ask questions.
It's an interview.
My question to you is...
But you're not allowed to make statements without listening to what somebody says.
Meghan Markle made a direct charge, supported by her husband, that a member of the royal family had expressed concern about the potential skin colour of their baby, which if it was too dark would be a problem.
That is racism.
They made a charge.
Yes, that's called racism.
Yeah.
If you think that if a baby's too dark, it's a problem.
That's called racism.
Sorry to have to lecture you about racism.
I know I'm not allowed to as a white man, but actually, that is an example of racism.
Tell us about the history of black people and what rate...
What's that got to do with what they said?
Because they didn't say it was racist.
Yes, they did.
Somebody else used that word.
They stepped aside from using that word, I think, very deliberately.
Why did they win an award?
Tell us about unconscious bias.
Tell us about unconscious bias.
I'll tell you about unconscious delusion, which is they won an award.
What does it mean?
I do the questions, you do the answering.
It's called an interview show.
But it's before Christmas, they accepted an award for their heroic stand against the structural racism of this royal family based on what they told Oprah Winfrey.
That was all a complete lie.
There was no racism we now know.
They never meant to say it was racism.
You're supporting them.
That was never meant to be racism.
Querying the colour of a baby from a mixed race marriage and expressing concern if it was going to be too dark is not racism.
Trisha, you take me for a complete mug.
It couldn't be a clearer example of racism.
Why deny that?
Really?
Yeah.
So am I right in thinking that you know better than you, I have no idea of what racism is.
No, I didn't say that.
I didn't say that.
I said to you very clearly.
I'm so sorry that you're not going to be able to do that.
What you keep doing?
Tricia, what you keep doing, you keep putting words into my mouth I'm not actually saying and the viewers aren't stupid.
Well, that's not what it was with them.
They didn't use racism.
You want people to believe that actually what she said, Meghan Markle, to Oprah Winfrey, supported by Harry, does not constitute racism.
And I'm afraid that you think you are being deliberately either delusional or disingenuous.
Which one is it?
You haven't explained what you understand by unconscious bias, so I'm not quite sure you understand.
You're not doing the interview, are you?
No, I don't care.
Sorry.
We've now moved from racism to unconscious bias.
I would like to move to unconscious or conscious delusion.
Because we all know what she said to Oprah Winfrey.
We all know that for the last two years, the royal family has been reeling from the charge of being racist because one of their senior members expressed concern over the skin colour of their unborn baby.
And now we get told casually by Harry, clearly feeling a bit of remorse about what's gone down here, because I read the whole book today.
This story doesn't appear in the book.
This allegation of racism isn't in there.
Why?
Where's it gone?
Why?
Nor is the allegation where Meghan Markle, which is the other thing I queried at the time before I had to leave the building, I also said, where is the proof that she went to somebody at Buckingham Palace about her suicidal thoughts and was told she couldn't get help?
That's not in the book either.
Where's that gone?
And by the way, what happened to him at the same time when his brother allegedly attacked him?
He called his therapist who was on speed dial.
Why couldn't he do that for his wife?
Anyway, these are ponderers' questions for you to think about, Tricia.
I want to come back after the break with Sharon, and we're going to talk to Sharon about particularly your involvement in all this, because you got fired soon after I had to leave the building over what turns out to be non-racism.
Talk to you after the break.
Unconscious Bias Allegations00:11:26
Welcome back to Still with Sharon Osborne and Kodi Nicol and joining us is the former Law Marine Ben McBean who served in Afghanistan at the same time as Harry and Conservative MP and chair of the Defence Select Committee Tobias Elwood.
And they're going to be talking primarily about Harry's boast that he killed 25 Taliban and called them chess pieces, something which has not only enraged many of his former colleagues in the armed forces, but has also enraged pretty much the entire Muslim world.
And who knows what repercussions may come from that stupid boast.
It will still come tonight.
Harry's truth has come a long way and we'll be talking that in a moment.
Sharon, let me just pick up with you because you were directly involved in all this.
This goes back to the Oprah Winfrey interview.
And it's absolutely crystal clear in that interview what Meghan Markle was saying, supported by Harry, that someone in the royal family had expressed concern about the unborn baby's skin colour.
And when probed by Oprah, if what, if the skin colour was too dark, that would be a problem.
Meghan Markle says, you may well deduce that, yes, right?
That became the biggest story of all these revelations, is that the family is racist.
Now we're supposed to believe that's never what they intended.
Harry says that, Tricia Goddard says it.
There's now a kind of whole revisionist thing going on.
But this had real consequences.
I didn't believe it at the time.
And I had to leave my job for disbelieving what was being said.
You then had to leave your job.
Because I was supporting you.
Because he supported my right to free speech and didn't agree with me.
Right?
You had to go, what do you feel about this?
It's all just craziness going around and around.
And he's turned his life and the royal family's life into a soap opera.
It's like a really bad distance.
I mean, it's always been a soap opera.
I think what's different is it's always been speculative soap opera, right?
You know, part of the thing of the papers, he goes on and on and on in all these interviews and the book.
I had to go through all this.
The press are just evil, the devil, he calls them, all this kind of stuff.
And yet the press, without the press.
Without the press, there wouldn't be a royal family.
Without the press doing predominantly...
I mean, I remember the coverage of his wedding.
Couldn't have been more universally praiseworthy.
It's beautiful.
He could barely bring himself to even acknowledge that.
This guy is so blindly hateful of the media and British press in particular, even though he gets exactly the same coverage in many parts of the world.
But when you, I mean, you haven't read the whole thing, I know, but I have.
I've never read anyone high profile talk about their family like this.
All of them.
His dad, his stepmom, his brother, his sister-in-law, the queen's dresser, Copsy.
And there's a really bad bit in here, which I really disliked, which is very revealing about his character, where he trashes the matron at Love Grove Prep School, who he names as Pat.
He calls her greasy and ugly, didn't make the boys horny, right?
And says that, you know, just carries on disparaging her.
She had a disability with her spine, which made her...
She had to walk properly.
And he used to mock her, mock the way she couldn't walk properly.
And he boasts about this.
This is a guy who, on his website for Archerwell, their foundation, describes as standing for compassion.
Where's the compassion in any of this?
I think, well, listen, I'm just hearing you picking up that story.
And, you know, I was reporting on Harry when he was falling in and out of nightclubs, getting into brawls with Paparazzi.
I mean, I remember speaking to the mother of one girl who was dating.
Said he really just was, was impolite he was, he was rude.
He turned up drunk with sick on him.
They didn't want him around their girl okay, and and that was understandable.
This is clearly a man who feels that he's gone through a metamorphosis, a massive reinvention, and has come out on the other side.
But what was so interesting I felt about watching the interview with Tom Bradby and I think Bradby did a very robust, very good job with him was when he didn't mention the Taliban no, but he brought up the racist allegations, as he as he rightly did.
But it was very clear that when Harry was almost steered off into a zone where he wasn't comfortable or he couldn't channel his, his therapy, speak and everything else, he looked very uncomfortable.
And I want to make just one quick point on these racism allegations.
I think this is very important.
When this turned into the biggest race row that this country's been in as long as I can remember and the most troubling storm for the royal family, Harry and Megan came out and made it clear in a subsequent statement that they were not talking about the queen or prince Philip because, of course, this witch hunt ensued.
That would have been an ample opportunity and, by the way, this wasn't an allegation or charge of racism, it was one of unconscious bias done.
I think what's happened is he realized too late because there's a report when he tried to get the book withdrawn that actually this was all going too far, I think.
I mean the fact that he hasn't mentioned that in here.
The single most explosive revelation isn't in the book, nor is this supposed thing with the with the palace denying Megan help for her suicidal thoughts make two very, very major omissions.
Well, they were the two biggest.
They were the two biggest bombshells.
Neither are in his book of his life.
Let me bring in Ben.
You fantastic service to your country as a royal marine and you were severely wounded in the process.
Thank you first of all for your amazing service and it's great to see you.
You know Harry.
You know you fought alongside him in Afghanistan.
What do you make of this?
Um yeah, in particular the boasting about killing 25 Taliban.
Yeah, I wasn't with Harry in Afghanistan so I was in a whole different area, but you were out there.
You're out.
Um, the 25 body count thing, it's just.
It was obviously him in context telling a story and he mentioned the number, but I think he could have told the story very easily without mentioning that number.
I don't think it was boasting um, but at the same time, if you say it and give a number to it, aren't you just boasting?
I mean, whichever way you try and describe it, he's just literally saying what he's done, which was his job, and thank god, because that was why we were able to get out of there, kind of thing, because we called him and they helped us out.
But I don't think mention that number was wise.
Would you ever do that?
No, I mean, the difference is, if I killed 10 000 men, no one cares, but if he killed one, everyone cares.
So it's not wise for him to mention it.
It's a bit like poking a bear as you walk past, like there's no point in that's not doing you favours, um.
So I don't think he's boasting it, but I just I think there's.
He could have easily said what he said without mentioning that number, which is and on the specific um, racism thing, was your understanding, just as a member of the public, when you watched, did you watch the opaque interview?
Not a lot of it.
You saw the, you saw the clips.
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
Was your, was your impression that they were saying that someone had been racist about the skin colour of their child.
I'll be honest, it did come across that way a bit um, and then obviously, when the media jumped in it, I didn't think oh, I wonder who was racist like, because it kind of come across that way.
The thing is, just in my opinion, it's almost like, you know, you go to like a comedy show and the comedian says a joke that you don't like and you're offended by it.
You can say that you're offended, but the comedian doesn't have to care.
So you just kind of get mad kind of thing.
It seems like that's like with his family, like he's obviously not happy with certain things and he might have said it to them and they may not, they don't have to care.
They don't have to respond or apologise because his feelings get hurt.
So then he's kind of moved away.
supposed to be happy in America, but he's not clearly.
He's not happy, is he?
No, so then he's kind of attacking his family by revealing everything, waiting for like an apology, but you're not going to get one.
I just think everyone defending him.
I just think if it was their family and someone was going on television because they had some kind of profile and was just doing this endlessly, trashing the family.
All of them.
I mean, it would, you know, you would, I think most people would cut that person.
I still think Harry's great.
I think a lot of troops do.
You can't take away what he's done for this country more than anything.
No, no, you can't.
But yes, he's fighting with his family, but we don't need to now see all of this because it is family at the end of the day.
I just think, even though I love Harry, he's a great guy, from what I know, what I've seen, I don't have to support every move that he makes, including this one.
It's not very nice.
I think that's very honest, and I think you're quite right.
I don't denigrate his service.
You know, my brother-in-law trained him at Sandhurst.
He was a colonel in charge of William and Harry, their training there.
So they were both very good young soldiers.
I've never denigrated that at all.
Let's bring in Tobias Elwood, the Conservative MP and chair of the Defence Select Committee.
Tobias, you've actually worked with Harry on the Invictus Games, which again is an incredibly admirable thing, the Invictus Games, and I've always completely supported it.
But when he said this stuff about the Taliban, you can see from the reaction already around the Muslim world, the way it's been now latched onto by a lot of Islamic fundamentalists and preachers and so on, this is going to potentially cause huge security problems, not least, I would think, at an event like the Invictus Games.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Firstly, I just wanted to stress the important relationship there is between our monarchy.
It goes back millennial, in fact.
We saw that at the funeral for the Queen, and indeed we'll see that in the coronation for the King coming up.
That's a powerful bond between all of our armed forces, the three services.
And I pay tribute to anybody, your brother and so forth, Ben, who's there in the studio with you, anybody that steps forward to represent their country and wear the uniform.
That includes Prince Harry.
He did two tours of Afghanistan.
And you're right, this huge legacy, the big thing that he created, the Invictus Graves, has been quite incredible.
But I think he was ill-advised to talk about a kill count.
We argue that we have the most professional armed forces in the world.
That's absolutely right.
That's not just because of our combat effectiveness.
It's also how we conduct ourselves in the aftermath of battle, following the Geneva Conventions, following the rules of engagements, how we deal with the prisoners of war, how we deal with the injured who were actually served in Camp Bastion as well, in the hospital there, next to the British comrades, and indeed how we deal with the dead as well.
We don't go and join the armed forces to kill people.
We go there to defend.
We go there to uphold democracy and the rule of law.
A byproduct of that is the occasional necessity use of lethal force.
So for the reasons, as you've pointed out, I think this has caused difficulties, not least where we've left Afghanistan.
We've ceded this back to the very people we went into to defeat the Taliban themselves.
We have 40 million Afghans that we still need to have a relationship with.
We've got the Halo Trust, for example, a fantastic charity that's doing mind clearance there.
All these organizations still have to work, have a relationship with the Taliban.
My worry is that extremists will take...
I would say that what he's said here and the way he's expressed himself, calling them chess pieces, saying he killed 25 and so on, as a senior member of the royal family, which he remains, I think that has, I mean, the irony of this, he has gone on about security and protection for his family, never mind anybody else for the last two years, arguing he should have more protection.
How does this kind of statement in a book do anything but put his own family at more risk?
It also puts the royal family in totality, I would say, at more risk from any lunatic fundamentalist who wants to exact some kind of revenge for what he's said.
The Invictus Games and events like it might become targets.
His own military, you know, he might still have friends in the military.
You know, they are now walking around with a bigger target on their back because a senior member of the royal family has come out boasting about killing the Taliban and how many he killed and dehumanise them as chess pieces.
Risks to Invictus Games00:02:11
Yeah.
I think it would be wise for Prince Harry to provide clarification as to what he meant there.
If you read the wider patches, it's the only bit of the book that I've read.
He clearly understands what his mission was, the bigger picture as well, what he was fighting for.
But those particular lines, I understand it was written, the book by a ghostwriter, it was put in there to sensationalise.
And as you've articulated, this can have serious ramifications, not least for the Invictus Games, which I stress.
It was a pleasure to work with Prince Harry in Toronto and indeed in Sydney.
An important aspect of rehabilitation of those who have served, are serving, but have been injured or somehow need to be rehabilitated.
I hope that continues.
I hope this will not affect that important creation that Prince Harry can be very proud of.
Tobias Ebel, thank you very much.
Sharon, before we go to the break, just there's this question, there's a coronation coming up in May.
A coronation where King Charles will be coronated.
Harry said he was a terrible father, couldn't handle being a single parent father at all.
You know, constant sniping at him in the book.
He absolutely trashes Camilla as a dangerous villain.
She's getting crowned as well as the Queen consort.
She's a stepmother.
And he won't give a clear, no, I'm not going to go.
And the palace haven't said he won't be invited.
I can't imagine in what world these two, Megan and Harry, think they're going to waltz in to the Westminster Abbey, is it?
Well, they're very...
To watch a coronation of two people and just trashed in a book.
There will be an invitation, I'm quite sure, to the coronation, because actually, in this situation, Charles has to be magnanimous.
In last night's interview, Harry spoke about the need for the royal family to be unified.
And Charles knows that.
This rift at the heart of the Harrison is a great family.
But I wouldn't trust them not to then do another book, another series.
But do you know what?
I think, honestly, if he comes to this country in the next few months, I think he'll be booed.
He was booed last time.
Well, he was.
I mean, a little bit.
He was a little bit more.
Even by Harry's brass neck stands, walking into the scene of the coronation of two people, one in particular, your father's wife, the Queen Consort, who's about to be crowned.
Color of Baby Skin00:08:53
Wicked woman.
I mean, it's just, to me, it's unconscionable.
You'd have the brass neck to the bottom.
I think it's possible that they can go and it can be orchestrated in such a way, as was for Platinum Jubilee celebrations, where they were away from his brother.
I don't think they should be anywhere near it.
I think, and I don't think they should be allowed to have their royal titles anymore.
Bang, done.
You want to do this?
You want to do this, Harry?
You don't get to keep the dukedom.
That goes.
Everything goes.
Anyway, more importantly, Ben, thank you.
Great to see you.
Appreciate your service to your country.
Proper hero, this man.
Good to have you on the show.
Thank you.
Well, still to come.
Frostbitten penises, ginger nuts, and royal birthday wishes.
Yeah, there's more of this.
Spare me.
Welcome back.
Joining me are talk-to-contributor Esther Kragger and political journalist Ava Santina, plus editor-at-large of the New York Post, Sarah Nathan, and Dr. Martin Luther King's niece, Alvida King.
Well, welcome to all of you what a stellar lineup.
How are you all?
Happy New Year.
Before we get any further.
Let me start with Alvida King, if I may.
Alvida, we now learn today from Prince Harry's interview with ITV, actually, that there was never any intention in that Oprah Winfrey interview to suggest that the royal family had been racist.
Now, am I living in cloud cuckoo land, or did I hear actually the complete opposite in that Oprah Winfrey interview?
I think you heard exactly what you heard, and we've had this conversation about race before.
So the big problem is it seems as though England had had a British queen before that was part African.
Her name was Beatrice.
Now, the other point, there's one race, the human race.
So there's no biracial or mixed race.
There's just human beings.
That's a scientific fact and a spiritual fact.
So everybody needs to come off of this arguing about the race issue.
And so if somebody wanted to know what complexion a baby would be, it would be pretty.
That's the name of the complexion.
It doesn't matter the skin hue because there's one human race.
No, but okay.
So I think that's a good question.
Okay, but Alvida, let me just interrupt though and say my specific question is, when Oprah Winfrey pushed Megan Markle to say, was there concern about the colour of your unborn baby's skin with a suggestion that if it was too dark, that would be a problem, and she agreed, that surely is a charge of racism.
It's nothing else, right?
It is.
It's a charge of racism.
And so I think Harry and Megan need to read how to win friends and influence people.
I wrote my own story many years ago and showed it to my family first and my friends.
And they said, you can't write that.
I said, it's true.
Well, you can't write it.
So I had God encounters and therapy and relax and breathing exercises.
And then I wrote a book called King Rules that became a bestseller.
So Harry and Megan are traumatized.
They need to be healed.
Untraumatized by Harry and Megan.
Trauma.
I'm sorry.
But you need to be healed too, I guess.
They've got no right to be traumatized.
They're the ones doing all the attacking and bullying for two years now.
Hurt people do hurtful things.
They're not hurt.
They're making hundreds of millions of dollars.
Well, money doesn't solve pain.
Clearly.
Not really.
Clearly, because Harry with what they're doing.
Yeah, but Alvida, clearly it doesn't because Harry still looks utterly miserable.
Let me go to Sarah Nathan.
Well, what I'm saying is that you're going to have to help.
I'll come back to you.
I just want to talk to Sarah Nathan about the American anglers.
I've just done a column for the New York Post, you know, basically just taking on Harry the Hypocrite, frankly, this prince of privacy who's now invaded everyone's privacy when it suits him.
What is the reaction, though, in America?
I keep hearing conflicting reports that people are with them, they're against them, is it mixed?
What percentage do you think of Americans are falling for this guff?
I think, hi, by the way.
I think what is very interesting is that Americans in general love emotions, they love a redemption, they love, you know, opening your guts on national TV, which is what they did on Oprah.
And I think they fall for this a lot more than Brits do.
And having lived here for 10 years, I can safely say that.
But I think what's interesting now is we're starting to see a little turnaround in the feelings about Harry and Megan.
The sympathy that a lot of Americans had is slightly dissipating.
What's really interesting is that last week, Jimmy Kimmel did like the warring princes, and he had two actors dressed up as the musician prince, and they were like meant to be William and Harry.
And then even the bastion of journalism, New York Times this afternoon, are saying, is this enough?
Has he gone too far?
Which you just wouldn't normally hear.
Right.
I don't think it'll ever be.
Let's bring in Ava and Esther.
I mean, if you're sitting here patiently watching this show, Esther, first of all, I mean, this race thing is not a trivial thing.
These two branded the royal family racist and gave specific examples, one of which was instantly discounted, that Archie hadn't been made a prince because of his potential skin colour.
And the other story now has completely fallen apart with Harry saying we didn't intend to suggest it was racist.
Well, yeah, and I think that they're almost gaslighting the British public because they're saying it's the British tabloids that said it and that implied it.
And then we're all just about to say that.
As if we didn't watch it with our own.
Exactly.
And we just went along with it like we don't have brain cells and we can't see.
And look, I said that if someone said that to me, if I had a mixed race, they were concerned about the colours.
Obviously, you could say that's clearly racist.
So I'm like, why would you make that?
Why would you make that statement and then come back and say, oh, actually, but the...
They said it would be hugely damaging to the person who said it if they ever named him.
So brand the royal family.
Ava, putting aside your natural love of all things royal, but this actually was a direct attack on the royal family, which reverberated around the world, caused a lot of problems, particularly in America, particularly in the Commonwealth, you know, Caribbean countries, a lot of unrest when they went on tour there as a result of this suggestion they're a bunch of racists.
Yeah, Hugh, I mean, I don't understand the dial back at all, going back to unconscious bias.
I think that is an objectively racist thing to say what that family member allegedly said.
I don't know why you dial back.
The other accusation that he's leveled is that Camilla has been in cahoots with the press.
He's been leaking and smearing stories about Megan and himself.
Is he going to dial back on that too?
Because that's a really serious advantage.
And by the way, I've known Camilla a long time.
I know her well.
She's never once briefed me about anything.
I don't believe she ever does that.
It's Harry and Megan who employed a team called Sunshine Something or Other, some PR firm in America, to spin everything.
They got their mate, Omid Scobie, or rabies, as I call him, who writes whatever they tell him in his books, right?
What's the difference?
We're going to take a break.
We're going to come back after the break and get more of your frothing thoughts, probably my frothing thoughts, and find out what's next.
Is there more of this?
Can we take any more of it?
Spare me.
Spare me any more of this.
Someone's just tweeting me, the majority of the public are behind Harry and Megan, a wonderful royal couple.
That is not true.
The majority of the British public are sick of them.
And they're not a wonderful royal couple.
So thank you for your tweet, but you're completely wrong.
Welcome back to a bunch.
We were just talking about circumcision and the break.
Not something I thought I'd discuss with you today.
But we only know this because Harry has revealed that he and William were circumcised.
He can reveal what the hell he likes from his frost-bitten penis to his circumcision, whatever he wants.
But revealing that the heir to the throne is circumcised, I can't think of a more intrusive thing for anyone to do to William than what he's just done as his own brother, the one who rails about media intrusion.
I don't know about that.
I think actually the fight was more intrusive than the circumcision point.
I think revealing that you punched your brother up.
I mean, the amount of times that my sister and I got violent with each other and it even... I could cope with my brother.
Well, both my brothers, especially my army brother, wants to do a misery book called My Dark Early Years of Piers Morgan.
But I wouldn't mind that.
But if he's revealing secret details of my genitalia, I probably would have a problem.
If I had a sister and I spoke about her nipple piercing, for instance, right, far more intrusive than if we got into a fight.
I do find the circumcision fact mildly amusing, though.
I find it very amusing.
Yeah, I mean, look, someone, look, there's no doubt this is highly entertaining in parts.
It's riveting.
It's incredibly intrusive.
Right.
I mean, you just can't believe what you're reading.
This will be a number one bestseller.
Good luck to him.
He'll make millions.
Intrusive Personal Details00:00:33
But at what cost?
At what cost?
He's blown it with his entire family.
Absolutely.
There's no amount of money in the world that would make me do this to my family.
Yeah, but do you not think there's an argument that maybe losing his mother at 12, and let me finish, I know that you're going to get really upset by this.
Nope, there isn't.
And in fact, there's one thing to do with this book.
Rather than buy it and feather his greedy little nest, do what I'm going to do right now.
Take spare and chuck it where it belongs in the bin.
Take it away, Tim.
That's all from us tonight.
Thank you, Pat.
Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored and uncircumcised.