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Dec. 14, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:06
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Meghan Accuses Royal Family 00:14:55
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored in her most explicit attack yet, Meghan Markle openly accuses the royal family of leaking and conspiring against her to protect other members of the firm.
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Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Sounds good.
Well good evening from London.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
The British stiff upper lip used to be celebrated.
It meant being proud of our fortitude in the face of adversity.
Times may be tough, but we keep pounding, soldiering on, plugging away, muddling through.
We keep calm and carry on.
That was the British way.
But the stoic stiff upper lip's disappeared, hasn't it?
Beneath a curled lower lip of victimhood.
It's now fashionable to be fragile.
It's trendy to be traumatised.
It's valiant to be a victim.
As Dame Joanna Lumley told Prospect magazine this week, sticks and stones can break your bones, but so can silence because it's violence.
Trauma used to be something you suffered in a car accident or severe distress caused by a life-changing tragedy.
Now everything is traumatic and everybody is traumatized.
Criticism is now shaming.
Disagreements become hate and any level of reasonable scepticism about massive social change is apparently a phobia.
A lot of reasons why this victim culture spread like a virus, but it has a lot to do with role models.
And there's no bigger self-declared victim, no more famous princess of self-pity than Meghan Markle.
Well, apart from her husband, Harry.
Netflix today released another trailer for the final three hours.
Is it the final three hours?
I doubt it.
Of the Harry and Meghan show.
It's all out tomorrow.
The battle lines have now very clearly been drawn.
Our monarchy is the menace.
Meghan and Harry, its poor, unsuspecting, oppressed victims.
There was a real kind of war against Meghan.
And I've certainly seen evidence that there was negative briefing from the palace against Harry and Meghan to suit other people's agendas.
Meg became this scapegoat for the palace.
And so they would feed stories on her, whether they were true or not, to avoid other less favourable stories being printed.
You would just see it play out.
Like a story about someone in the family would pop up for a minute and they go, I've got to make that go away.
But there's real estate.
On a website homepage, there is real estate there on a newspaper front cover.
And something has to be filled in there about someone royal.
This barrage of negative articles about the breakdown of the relationship with her father was the final straw in a campaign of negative, nasty coverage about her.
A real war against Meghan Markle, give me a break.
A real war is what happening now in Ukraine, where people are actually being killed, murdered by barbaric invaders from Russia, where babies are being blown to pieces.
It's not because somebody at Buckingham Palace may or may not have told a newspaper that you're a piece of work, which, by the way, fact check, you are.
I can tell you from all my time editing newspapers, that's not how this works.
It's not true that the royal family constantly brief against other members of their families to newspapers.
That's not how this actually happens in the real world, only in Megan and Harry's self-serving, constantly negative worldview of all this.
It's now clear that the final episodes of his constructive reality show will actually construct a reality that's recognisable only to them.
They'll directly attack the royal family they're still profiting from, a vast, vast profit, by the way, to tell a sob story in which they are the world's ultimate victims.
They're milking this clickbait culture of social media validation, which rewards whining without evidence and wallowing without reason.
The royal family should do the exact opposite of everything these professional victims, that's what they are now, represent.
They should do what they've always done.
Keep calm, carry on, ignore them, and just rise effortlessly above this nonsense.
Because without the imaginary war, without their royal status, they're nothing, are they?
They're just a couple of C-list celebrities living in a mansion in California.
There's a lot of those.
Got a house out there myself.
Nobody better represented the British stiff upper lip than the late Queen Elizabeth herself, of course.
And it might not be fashionable, but over the next few days, the British monarchy should just follow her lead.
Well, joining me now is the former royal correspondent, Michael Coles, Sunday Times Royal Editor, Roy Nicker, and former Conservative MP Anne Whitaker.
I don't know where to start, really.
Roy, let me start with you because you had a great piece in the Sunday Times at the weekend, where you went through forensically a lot of the claims in the first three episodes.
And a lot of the stuff that just didn't ring true to me, you nailed.
Not least for me, one of the most egregious parts of it, which was her attempt to say, look, there's this niece in my family that I really like.
So it's not true, I don't like them all.
And the only reason she wasn't at the wedding with my mother was because someone at the palace told me it wouldn't be a good idea.
But what was the truth?
That was not the account that two people who worked very closely with Megan and Harry told me, both of whom had very specific recollections of that conversation with Megan, which was Megan saying, by the way, I've got a niece.
That was news to the palace.
I'd never heard of Ashley Hale before.
And I'm close to her, but I don't want to invite her because it will expose her to far too much media scrutiny.
To which the aide said, fine, no problem.
It was Megan telling the palace what was going to happen, not the palace giving any stare or any guidance as to which family members would come.
They said they wanted more family to come because it would look less weird.
Of course, it was so weird as it was one member of the family from either side of her family, and then you have all these celebrities she's just met.
I mean, it was just a weird thing to observe anyway at that wedding, but to then find out that this niece would have been the other 50% that was invited and to concoct a kind of narrative.
Look, you see how nice I am to my family, but I wasn't allowed to bring them to the total lies.
That was the very phrase used by one of the former members of the household that I spoke to for several of the claims that were made in the first three episodes.
What else struck you as from your context as being disingenuous at best?
You see, the other thing I was quite pleased to learn was that you might have read, well, you did very kindly, the 30-point, the 30-chapter dossier on how to prepare for royal life.
Well, this is really significant because she made a big play in the documentary of saying nobody prepares you to be a princess.
There's no one giving you any advice.
You're basically, as she put it, generally thrown to the walls, right?
What is the reality of what happened with her?
So the reality is that months before, actually even months before they got married, six months before, she had, I mean, she had assistant private secretaries working with her, she had the whole communications team working with her.
But on top of that, Harry's then private secretary, Adelaine Fox, spent weeks preparing this vast dossier, a 30-chapter dossier of everything you might need to know about preparing for public life, royal life, the constitution, ladies in waiting, charity work, arts in the UK.
And with every chapter, it was just full of information.
It had 30 specific experts on each chapter saying, we'll set up a meeting for you, Megan.
She took up two.
So that was a blatant lie, again.
But also, what about the obvious elephant in the room?
She's marrying Prince Harry, who has observed royal ritual at close quarters for his entire life.
She couldn't just have turned to him and said, how do I curtsy to your grandmother?
Well, there was a very big segment in that part of the episode, obviously the mock curtsy.
It was saying, I didn't know how to do walkabouts.
I'd never heard one, never seen one.
I mean, she was marrying someone who'd done hundreds.
But regardless of that, I was told that there was a lot of prep.
Of course, there was.
I just think it's so disingenuous.
Well, actually, I think it's lying.
Michael, where are we with this?
Because the royal family are in a really difficult place, aren't they?
Because their normal stance on these things is to say nothing.
I firmly believe they shouldn't get involved in this because I think if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.
And these two are behaving like rabid dogs at the moment.
But is there a motion?
If you're Prince William, for example, and this is your brother branding you all a bunch of cow as racist, I mean if that was one of my brothers, there would be a tipping point, as there would be the other way around.
You say, where are we?
I'll tell you where we are.
We're at a new low with this self-obsessed couple.
I've had to look at that trailer three times.
It's 71 seconds of venom and vitriol.
And what it reveals is princely paranoia.
It starts off with him saying, I'm on a freedom flight, as if he's talking about the last helicopter out of Saigon in 1975.
He's actually on a private flight to a mansion in British Columbia, which is one of the most beautiful places in the world.
But you ask a very good question because now it all depends what's in this next three episodes.
If there are issues of veracity, i.e., lies are told, in plain English, then I think it is beholden upon Prince William to answer it line by line, rebuttal and refutation, because I'm afraid it won't do.
The normal role of pose is put your head in the sand like an ostrich, never explain, never complain.
The Queen never did.
No, the Queen mother never did.
But this is unfair.
And I know that the position of our new king and queen, they're very much of the never complain, never explain, because actually every time any of the royals have ever tried to explain anything, it normally rebounds horrifically badly.
But Diana's panorama interview, Andrew's Newsnight interview, even Charles's interview, none of it ever really works in the way they think.
But that single line, some recollections may vary.
That went home with people.
In other words, other people remember it completely differently.
But this is very serious because the charge of racism is toxic.
It's toxic.
And it's very easy to make, but it's almost impossible to refute.
It's impossible to prove a negative.
And that's what's so playing the race card is cowardly because it deprives the person accused of the William's anger when he took that moment.
Yes.
He said, this is very much not a racist man.
You bring in Anne Whittaker.
Anne Whitticomb, I can't even imagine you sitting through hours of this, even minutes maybe of this.
Have you watched any of the Netflix documentary?
Any of the Netflix documents?
Here's, I haven't seen so much as a second of it.
And today with my column and The Express, I didn't refer to this precious couple at all because I actually think that the way to deal with them is to ignore them, just to completely ignore them.
They are thriving on the publicity, but it's publicity which has an end because they cannot go on inventing ever more things forevermore about the royal family.
This has a natural shelf life.
And I think what we should do is just let them say it all, ignore them, give them no publicity, and just let them get on with it.
I mean, I think your introduction was excellent, in which you talked about the cult of victimhood, because in a wider sense, Joanna Lumley was talking about women and how women now think that there's something clever about being victims, whereas, you know, she and I had to fight very hard to get equality.
And we got it and we won.
And ever since then, people have been looking around saying, what's the next grievance?
Yeah, I think that's a very good point.
Roya, where does this all go?
I mean, where does it end?
Is there an end?
I mean, if your currency is trashing your family and you're making literally hundreds of millions of dollars from doing it, and the Netflix, the first three episodes did very well, apparently, for Netflix, so they're happy.
So they'll be chucking more money at them.
I don't think anybody wants to hear their other stuff.
What they want to hear is royal bashing.
But how long is that sustainable?
Well, let's see what happens on January the 10th when Roy brings out his book.
I think, you know, I would imagine he will be keeping a fair bit back for that.
Where does it end?
I think ultimately Harry and Megan probably feel they've got a little bit more royal currency to play out in the States, and you know better than anyone that that lasts for only a certain amount of time.
I think it will carry on with the royal family here keeping calm and carrying on for a long time.
How damaging has it all been though?
It's been damaging, there's no doubt about it.
I think in the Commonwealth and in America, the racism stuff is really beginning to stick.
Do you know what?
I was out in Boston a couple of weeks ago with the Waleses, and there was a lot of love for William and Kate there.
The racism stuff wasn't sticking as much as I thought it would, but people in America have a very different view to him.
And Boston's a tough town.
It's an Irish town.
It is a tough town.
And they were cheering them.
And you know, what is extraordinary to me is Prince Harry served this country gallantly.
He was a forward artillery observer.
He sat in the front seat of an Apache helicopter shooting up the Taliban.
He could have come home in a body bag.
That must have been pretty scary from time to time.
What is it within the palace that so got him frightened?
It really is extraordinary.
No, I think it's as simple as he's not the brightest of bulbs in the tulip patch.
And I think he's been lassoed by a very cynical, manipulative woman who has basically taken him over.
People don't like me saying things like that because they think it's sexist.
But I think that's honestly what's happened.
She's a lot older than him.
She's been married before and divorced.
And I think she's come over here, seen the main gig, and taken him.
And it's now her license to become what she wanted to be, which is a huge star.
But they've sold out body and soul to Netflix.
Migrants and Legal Asylum 00:14:29
They're on their little...
But she doesn't care.
She won't care about any of this.
She's got what she wants.
She was a B-list actress in a show I quite enjoyed as she said.
Yes, it was good.
But it wasn't that popular.
It was just a good show.
But she's got what she wants.
She's now top of the tree, getting awards, earning gazillions, and a big star.
He is, in my view, looking like the chump in the picture because he's the one now who's betrayed his country, his family, everything else.
Anne Whittakham, you're demonstrating with your head some kind of visceral reaction.
I'm just not sure what it is.
Yes, well I mean the question as to what happened to Harry, you know, after he came back from Afghanistan and why is it all so different is very straightforwardly Megan Markle.
He is bewitched.
He is utterly and completely bewitched.
And if he had any sense at all he would have started to see by now the way the land lies.
But he doesn't because he is utterly besotted by her and he's being taken along with her.
He would never have done any of this stuff on his own, that's for a certainty.
No, I honestly don't think he would have done.
And I think, or if he tried, I think he would have been talked out of it.
I just think at the moment he's trapped in what will become a world of pain.
Nobody can leave their family en masse, just leave all of them and leave their country and lose all their reputation, particularly when they've served their country so valiantly as he did.
He was a very good soldier and deserves great credit for that.
But nobody can give all this up and be happy.
And it's interesting, they went for freedom and happiness.
The one thing they don't look is remotely happy.
I mean, she does.
She's the cat that got the cringe.
He looks increasingly angry and miserable and resentful.
So it hasn't worked.
He doesn't look free and happy.
He looks trapped and miserable.
That's my take.
Anyway, look, great to see the pat.
Sadly, we will be talking about this again, probably tomorrow night, because another three episodes, I'll be up at 8 a.m. to try and get through it.
Last time it was about the 60, 60-minute moment that I began to feel, I just began to feel something coming through my torso.
My blood began to curdle, and I began to feel I'm literally never getting this time back in my life.
As I watched yet another...
At this point, we were the biggest pictures in the entire universe.
I mean, it was like awful to be in my palace.
Feeling so badly.
Terrible!
Oh, yeah, it was.
It was awful.
It was terrible.
My dad stopped giving me millions.
Really?
You little hapless halfway?
Why don't you do a job, a proper job?
Anyway, as you can see, I'm working myself up for the next three episodes and we'll give a fair and impartial and balanced take on what will be a gruesome three hours.
Tune in tomorrow night to my Piers Morgan uncensored special edition on the rolling nightmare that is Megan and Harry, the documentary.
It's the nauseating, self-serving snooze fest the whole world is raging about.
I'm gobsmacked.
That's just ridiculous.
You destroyed yourselves in this country with your ludicrous hypocritical behaviour.
I wasn't being thrown to the wolves, I was being fed to the wolves.
You were never willing to tell the truth to protect us.
Meg became this scapegoat for the palace.
This was a fight worth fighting for.
Oh, shut up.
Until they introduced the father character.
Well, still to come.
We'll have more after the break.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
This told to come to mind my exclusive interview with internet sensation Liver King after one of the most famous influencers out there was outed as a steroid user, lying to his millions of fans that his body was all natural.
I'll talk to him live.
But first, a union representing Coast Guards and the border forces called on the Home Secretary to resign in disgrace from the death of four migrants in the Channel.
The union accused Suella Braverman of vilifying and demonising the very people she's now feigning sympathy with.
Let's have a look.
I would love to be having a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda.
That's my dream.
The mob needs to be stopped.
The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion on our southern coast and which party is not.
I know that everyone in this house and across the country will join me in expressing our profound sadness and deepest sympathies for everyone affected by this terrible event.
Well, joining me now is Associate Editor of the Daily Mirror, Kevin Maguire, talk TV contributor Esther Cracko and Times columnist and Conservative peer Daniel Enkelstee.
Well welcome to all of you.
And sorry, I'm also joined by Talk TV's political education county.
Let me start with Kate.
Kate, thanks for joining me.
You're down there in the corridors of power.
Actually, you are the only one there at the moment.
But you're shining out like a shaft of gold as all around is lazy and gone home.
So thank you.
Two things it strikes me are gripping this government right now.
One is this whole issue of how to deal with the migrants and this awful thing today, this story today of the deaths in the channel will just raise that specter again of what are we going to do about this and what is the humane way to deal with this problem.
And the second thing of course is the fact that almost everybody's on strike and what they do about that.
What is the mood down there sort of collectively about all this with this government?
Because it feels like from here they're really on the ropes and they don't seem to be having a lot of answers.
Yeah, I think within the party, certainly the backbenchers, on both of those issues, there is some tension, there is some concern that perhaps the Prime Minister hasn't necessarily yet fully got to grips with either immigration, particularly illegal boat crossings, those small boat crossings, and the issue of strikers.
But Piers, what I think the problem here is, is that so often with both of these policies, the government talks about the policy in a broad way.
It doesn't necessarily talk about the human impact.
And that's where things come unstuck.
When you think about those small boat crossings, you heard Suella Braverman there.
What she's doing is she's talking tough because she knows how backbenchers and often Conservative voters believe that the party should really have a grip on the number of people entering the country, which the reality is, and she's admitted, the Home Office currently doesn't.
Now, we've seen a raft of policy introduced over the last couple of days, which is designed to deal with it.
But critics always say it ignores the human element.
And that's brought up so starkly when you see things like the four people who've died trying to cross the channel in the middle of the night, reports that there are women and children on that boat, even now, obviously unconfirmed at this stage, but in a desperate, desperate attempt to get to the UK, which again highlights this need for safe and legal routes, which the government says that it will tackle.
The same could be said for strikes.
You know, when the government talks about striking workers, it talks about pay, it talks about inflation.
But actually, the reality is that for lots of people around the country, they are struggling to pay the bills, particularly when it comes to nurses.
And that's why you see so many people sympathetic to them walking out on strike.
Yes, there will be problems.
There'll be those who say they shouldn't do it.
But there are many, many around the country who say, well, actually, the reality is they can't afford not to.
And I think that human element is where the government sometimes can come unstuck on both of these policies and others.
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
And I think they're failing to connect with people.
And people are feeling angry, they're feeling fearful, they're feeling impoverished, and they're feeling there's no leadership.
And I full sympathy with Rishi Sunak.
He's just come in to pick up this mess.
In fact, congratulations to him because today he passed Liz Truss's milestone of being the shortest serving Prime Minister ever.
So he's more popular than Liz Truss and Alettis, which has got to be two things to cheer him up.
But this is like being handed the biggest hospital pass in modern political history, isn't it?
The polls are catastrophic for the Conservatives.
And people are crying out for answers from a government which right now doesn't really seem to have any.
Yeah, and the reality is the answers to those problems, even if you just take immigration and health, but there are many, many others, will take years.
They really will.
These are deep, embedded problems.
Nobody could turn this around quickly.
Even if you had all the money in the will in the world, you wouldn't be able to.
They are difficult and they're entrenched.
And the reality is that Rishi Sunak, he realises that.
That's why he's basically made himself personally responsible for cutting at least some of the backlog in those asylum claims by the end of 2023.
Now, whether he can do it or not is another thing entirely.
All he's focusing on is trying to meet some of those targets by the time the next election comes around.
But I think the reality for most people around the country and for lots of MPs here on the Conservative backbenches is that they can see that there's just no way that they can sell the fact that the Tory government has solved these issues by the time that vote comes around and that people in the country already know it.
And that's a problem.
Yeah, and I think we're heading for a tough recession in the next year.
And that's going to make things 10 times worse.
Kate McCann, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Danny, is there anything the Conservatives can do in time to turn around what appears to be the Titanic heading to electoral devastation iceberg?
I doubt it.
But I think that that's not the right question actually for the government to ask itself.
I think what it has to do is to try to govern in the interest of the country.
I mean, I was pleased yesterday that Rishi Sunak did seem to set out some solid, workable steps that were the result of diligent, systematic thinking rather than just loose rhetoric.
There's no point talking about the problem.
I think it's very unlikely that it will resolve the position for the Conservatives electorally, but the right thing for the government to do is the right thing.
And I don't know if it's a problem.
What is the right thing on the migrant crisis to start with?
Well, what is the right thing to do?
Okay, it definitely lies in bilateral deals of the kind that the government did with Albania, of the kind that they were trying to do with France.
It is definitely about trying to ensure that when people come, there are places for them to go that are not very expensive hotels, making the problem of expense part of the sort of panic of it.
And it'll have to also grapple with the problem of legal difficulties of whether these people can stay here.
Because at the moment, we seem to have a rate of acceptance of asylum that's much higher than elsewhere.
We need to look about why that is the case.
And we certainly have to go legal routes as well.
Right as well.
And also, Kevin, you can't get away from the fact that if a third of the people who've come in this year are from Albania and they're mainly working-age men, that clearly is not what this has all been sold by some on the left in particular, which is these are all helpless refugees from war zones.
They're not.
No, they're from a perfectly good country.
They just want to come and have a better life here.
No, and I accept.
I think Albania is a safe country.
Most of those men come over, they work, and then they send the money back and then they return themselves.
But I thought Kate McCann summed it up wonderfully.
It was very measured.
In that I think it feels that the government's lost hearts and minds.
It's out of touch.
Problems are running away from it.
Now, on the economy, and soaring inflation, you could see, well, who could have predicted COVID and then Putin's invasion, which sent world fuel prices soaring?
No, you can't get all the blame for that.
Brexit was a self-inflicted national wound.
But the question of migration and having a system that works, been in power for 12 years.
Well, 12 and a half years now.
And to be fair, I don't think Labour ever got their heads around it either.
They did eventually, but you can't.
People are always going to try and come to Britain.
Look, it's a compliment.
People want to come.
But Labour accept now that Blair, you know, Blair, in his tenure, he tried to open things up, say, to Eastern Europe.
And he now recognises that that was probably overdone.
And all this puts unnecessary pressure on our creaking system as it is.
I mean, Esther, you want to have a heart for people who are genuine asylum seekers from war zones, particularly war zones that we may have been instigating.
Iraq and places like this.
Of course you do, especially women and children from these war zones.
But like I say, when a third of all the people coming in are from Albania, that's clearly, that's not what this narrative is about.
And they can apply for temporary visa.
What do we do about separating these various types of people trying to get into the country?
We want good migrants.
In other words, you know, ones, how would you categorize without?
People in genuine need.
People are going to work and start a new life and contribute to Britain, which actually is mostly available.
So let's make no category for what we would call a good migrant or a proper bona fide asylum seeker genuinely coming from a war-torn country.
What we don't want are the others to come in illegally.
Yeah, well, that and contribute to sort of illegal economies in this country, like sort of drug dealing and all of that.
But I think that the point is safe legal routes.
And that's what we should tackle.
And that's where the left kind of lose the debate, because you have to have a way for them.
Well, the government also loses the debate.
You have to have a way for them to come safely and legally because then you have a case to actually remove the ones that don't have a case to be here.
And I think that's what we're trying to do.
And everyone in the restaurant industry tells me they are absolutely desperate for more people to come.
Migrants, to come into the country who are skilled.
But we should choose those migrants as a hospitality industry.
I think migrants from the Commonwealth, for instance, have a stronger case and are actually more beneficial to Britain than from parts of the world that we don't necessarily choose.
And I think that's something that we should make a case for as well.
If we take Albanians out of the numbers for a moment, of the rest, when their cases are assessed, the majority are found to have a legal claim to stay here as refugees, asylum seekers.
That's do you know what?
Because I want them to stay in the documentary.
But there's no route for them into Britain except in these boats.
Now, you have a safe and legal route.
You're not going to stop all the sailors because the people you reject or say are the same.
One of the problems I think the use of language is...
Suleiman Braverman.
Braverman Braverman?
We've worked out what her name is yes.
I think it's Braverman.
It's Braverman, isn't it?
I think it's Braverman, but it's like...
Kanye: Cancelled or Saved 00:08:29
I keep hearing different versions of it.
Bratiman.
But the language she uses often sounds...
Yeah.
Is it Superman or Superman?
Right.
Her language often sounds unnecessarily heartless and incendiary, boasting about shipping people out and all the rest of it.
And I think it was today or yesterday, one of the Labour side used the phrase concentration camps for these unused holiday parks, right?
Where they're thinking of putting a lot of the migrants as a sort of holding place.
To use a phrase like concentration camp.
I mean, my mum was in the concentration camp.
So I think they make you feel like it's not.
It can look pretty offensive as a way of talking about it.
But just to emphasise, I also think the Home Secretary has talked about it in ways that are also quite offensive.
I think language matters, but also it's also irrelevant, as well as it mattering.
It doesn't solve the problem.
No, it doesn't.
So it just talks big and then doesn't solve the problem.
It's unnecessary hostility.
And I think she doesn't understand the nuances and semantics of politics.
I think you've got to be careful, the language.
Well, talking of being careful with language, you, Danny Figures, you've been brought in today to do what I never thought I'd be asking you to do.
You're going to launch a stoic defense of Kanye West.
Probably right now the world's leading anti-Semite.
You as a Jewish man are going to explain to me why his music shouldn't be cancelled.
After the break, you've got time to think about it.
That's the tease.
I'm also still to come.
I'll be live with the liver king.
I'll be speaking to him exclusively.
If you don't know him, he's one of the most famous influencers on the internet.
He believes in primal living.
He eats liver, like he just did.
But he's also just confessed to taking a lot of steroids.
And the question is, how much of that muscle is real from his diet?
How much of it is from the steroids?
We'll talk to him as well later in the show.
Stay with us.
Well, some breaking news here.
And really, this is going to fill your heart with glee in the middle of a cost of living crisis, particularly given he was one of the people who precipitated it with his hapless management of the country.
Boris Johnson, it's been revealed, has made a million pounds in speeches since he left office in disgrace.
That's just a little bit more than Matt Hancock has made from eating kangaroo testicles after also contributing to the downfall of his country.
And it does.
It wins the cockles of your heart, doesn't it?
That these two little grifters who had to resign in disgrace are now raking it in while most people in the country are really struggling.
I'm sure you'll all join me in saluting this great moment for British democracy.
Thank you.
Thank you to everyone who's paying Boris to speak because I would pay him to shut up.
Well, the artist, talking of shutting people up, Ye, of course, the artist formerly known as Kanye West, is in the middle of a dramatic months-long downward spiral centered around horrible anti-Semitism.
It's cost him massive deals with Adidas and Gap, and he's been virtually ostracized now by mainstream society.
But should his music, his art, also be expunged from Apple Music, Spotify, everywhere?
Well, still with me in my pack.
Now, Daniel, you wrote a great piece about this.
Really made me think, because I don't think it's as straightforward as your gut instinct, which is, yeah, ban him.
You know, it's the sort of cancel culture mood we're in.
I interviewed Kanye at length about five, six weeks ago.
And that was when he just had said about going DEF CON 3 on Jewish people.
And I wanted to find out what he meant.
Was it actually something we didn't think about?
Did he have a good explanation?
He didn't really.
It looked to me like blatant anti-Semitism based around his belief that the music industry is run by Jewish business people ripping off black artists.
And it's all come from that.
But since then, he's become increasingly, in my view, vile and blatant with the anti-Semitism, leading to him being thrown off Twitter where Elon Musk had brought him back, thrown off of putting a swastika in a Star of David as a post, which was contemptible.
Now, he's gone from Twitter, too much even for Elon Musk, who wants to bring back free speech.
He's gone from most of his corporate deals.
Should his music be part of the package of the cancellation?
So I argue no.
Obviously, I find his work, what he says, repulsive and also frightening as a Jew.
And I agreed with Elon Musk.
I don't want to be in a conversation with Ye, so I don't want him to be on Twitter.
But I do think artistic expression is very important.
And he is an important artist.
And to argue that every person who has ever made a piece of art, let's take Wagner at one end or Michael Jackson at another end, everything that they have done should be removed.
The art should be removed because of something that they've said about something else.
I don't think so.
And what I've tried to do in that article is to say these are matters of judgment.
That's why we argue so much.
You see, Kenye, look, Yay, and he gets upset if you call him Kenny, but he wants to do another interview with me.
He's been texting me.
But I've got to say, even in the text messages he's been sending me, he's unbelievably offensive.
He's homophobic.
He's anti-Semitic.
Some of it is outrageous.
And that's just in text to me.
So this is not something he's accidentally blurting out in the middle of interviews.
I don't want to interview him again because I don't want to give that guy a platform.
But I do think you made a good point.
I mean, Esther, where is this line?
I think that you can...
Get away from your party at Christmas.
You'll hear Michael Jackson.
I know.
I don't see people rushing up saying, get it off, get it off.
I think you have to separate the artistry from the person because at the end of the day, the artistry is part of our culture.
You know, Kanye, well, Ye is one of the most talented individuals of my generation, period.
And his music is a form of, is a part of, you know, black American culture, certainly, but also music culture around the world.
I don't think you can.
But if you've been saying all this stuff about black people.
Yeah, we don't have to like him, but his music is a different person.
But if you've been blatantly racist about black people, repeatedly, made his contempt for black people obviously.
He's not popular.
Yeah, but if he'd been a white guy doing it about black people, a white artist, right, would you say the same thing?
I would, because I think I'm very strict with my standards.
I think the artistry and the culture around it is different from the artists and how detestable they are.
And I think we should actually preserve the music.
I mean, I still listen to artists that I probably shouldn't say because I will get cancelled.
Well, Kevin, when we were young, you know, Gary Glitter was the party go-to, especially at Christmas, right?
We used to go to his Brixton show.
It was always a huge thing.
And now you never hear him, really.
I mean, I think he is on some platforms.
I think you see him on Spotify or something.
But you won't hear him on the radio.
He won't play it.
And you won't see him on television.
This is about the case.
I don't think it's a principle that covers everybody.
So one of the reasons there's a difference between Gary Glitter and Kanye West, and I don't mind that he's offended.
He's offended me.
I can offend him back.
It's because Kanye West is just a more important artist.
So one of the things I'm arguing is common sense and a sense of proportion comes into this.
But if you're an important artist, should that matter if you're a commercial?
I think the stuff he's saying about Jewish people now is actively going to lead to more attacks on Jewish people.
I've seen it in LA where you've seen banners over bridges, people supporting him, right?
And these are anti-Semitic people who might well be violent.
That to me crosses every possible line.
So I'm not sure that the importance of the art actually for me is the criteria.
It should be what's the offense.
It is interesting because would you give him a venue?
Would you allow him to play in a venue, right?
So you might say no, but then you allow him to be on Spotify.
But on the question of interviewing him, and I can see your reluctance, I also think there's a value in exposing and grilling and holding.
But I've done that once, and I'm not sure there's any added value given he's been saying even more atrocious things.
What we're establishing here is that each of these judgments is quite subtle.
So there's a difference between him having a concert and there might be a difference, for example.
Danny, wait a minute.
Subtlety and public discourse in the modern era.
Have you lost your mind now?
There is no room for subtlety in discourse.
We must all take tribal positions and that's it.
Kanye must be cancelled.
Kanye must be saved.
If he were to sing his tweets, we might feel differently about Liverpool.
What about Chris Brown after he brutally?
You made me think.
Ancestral Tenants and Paths Forward 00:09:12
That column really made me think.
And actually, I came around to what you were saying.
I think I agree.
I think once you start, it's a slippery slope.
If you expunge anyone who's got any problems in their back catalogue from the artistic historical back catalogue, you probably would allow an overtly anti-Semitic song.
No, but I suspect it wouldn't catch on and become a picture.
I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't.
I don't think that's art.
So therefore, then on Spotify, he could have his back catalogue, but perhaps not his future catalogue.
Well, Kelly's just released an album.
I want some people to get a concert.
I won't find it anywhere.
Maybe it's a contradiction.
As we can tell, it's a fascinating debate, right?
Thank you very much, Pat, for coming in.
I appreciate it.
Coming next tonight, another TV exclusive, internet sensation Liver King speaks to me live after the fitness influencer was outed as a steroid abuser lying to his millions of fans.
His body was natural.
What's his justification?
What's his defense?
We'll ask him after the break.
Well, welcome back.
I'm a lover of red meat, but my next guest takes it to the extreme.
Brian Johnson, also known as the Liver King, has brought his unconventional lifestyle to the mainstream and millions of fans.
But is his clean living all as it seems?
This is what the liver king is having for dinner today.
I'm having liver with breakfast, lunch, and dinner because liver is king.
Oh, can't be in you without your beard on.
You know what?
Somebody said that earlier.
You might not know this.
I'm actually wearing a muscle shirt.
I'm making this video to apologize because I fed up.
Yes, I've done steroids.
I am as sorry as a man can be.
Well, Brian Johnson, aka the Liver King, joins me now.
Well, thank you for joining me, Brian.
Your nine ancestral tenants, which is what's made you so rich and famous, are sleep, eat, move, shield, connect, cold, sun, fight, bond.
Pretty laudable lineup of tenants to have in life, I would argue.
But you've got to add another one now, 10, which is steroid drug abuse.
How much do you think that has damaged your reputation and your integrity?
First of all, I deserve what you just said.
And I also want to say thank you for giving me this opportunity to come on here to talk about this.
My job is to acknowledge how bad people are hurting today.
I believe there's this path forward, a better life to live.
I call it ancestral living.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about this.
How much does it damage my integrity a lot?
But what I want to say is this, is my integrity, my brand, I would say that this doesn't have anything to do with the North Star.
The North Star, the message is far bigger than me, right?
The message really is people are hurting at record rates.
There's a better life to live.
It can be achieved through ancestral living.
I mean, it's interesting.
I got a text message today from a very, very famous television personality who is known for his own healthy living.
He said to me that you screwed up with the steroid stuff, but your heart is good.
You're a lovely family, man.
Your views on living an empowered life through struggle, primal nutrition, sun, ice, and community are spot on.
So notwithstanding the steroid scandal, he thought that actually the tenants that you stand for, that you've been promoting, still stand the test of time.
So I guess it's going to be interesting, isn't it, to see what your fans make of this?
Because a lot of it is down to trust, isn't it?
You come bursting onto the scene, you're hugely popular, you're making all this money, but it's based on the belief that your diet, which is obviously very unusual, I've got some of it here, the raw liver, that constantly eating that is what turns you into the person we see on our screen, when in fact it's now turned out to be largely driven by steroids.
There's a trust issue there.
I understand that, and I hope that we have the opportunity to eat some raw liver together since you have some there.
There's a trust issue here, right?
And you don't have to believe what I'm saying, but what you have to believe is that the world is hurting at record rates, that these are the facts, that 4,000 people a day actually kill themselves, that 80,000 people a day try to do it.
85% of the population, they struggle with self-esteem issues.
80% of the population struggles paycheck to paycheck.
70% are overweight, half are obese.
50% are on prescription medicine.
40% have or will get cancer.
And 20% want to have kids and can't have kids.
So what you got to believe is this.
These are the facts.
So now how do we lead a better life?
How do we get better?
How do we start to overcome these issues?
What I believe, right, and I've gone and visited with modern day primitive culture tribes in the Amazon and Africa and Mongolia.
This is how they live.
These nine ancestral tenants, they don't have material possessions.
They're kicking ass in life.
So what I'll tell you is this, I lived this way before social media.
I've eaten these things.
I have liver.
I have some testicle right here.
I have some bone marrow right here.
We ate this way.
My family and I did this before social.
We're going to continue to do this on social.
After social, we'll continue to live this way.
I believe so deeply in this that this is my why in the world.
This is the best.
How much?
Okay, but look, I get all this.
And it's interesting to me.
Look, I think a lot of what you say makes sense.
And I'm sure it would benefit people.
The problem people are going to have is how much of you and your body has actually come from this diet that you've been promoting and this lifestyle and how much of it has come from just taking steroids because anyone can take steroids and pump up.
So now there's a sort of cloud over the, like I said, the integrity of your whole sales pitch, which is you can look like me if you do this.
But actually all the time you were taking steroids.
Sure.
Listen, I mean, it's impossible to say how much, right?
But I'll tell you this.
There's a new video today on TikTok before steroids were ever involved in my life.
If you want to know what's achievable, how I did it, prior to any kind of enhancement whatsoever, go to TikTok, check out the video.
You'll see that.
While I think it's completely impossible to say what percent, right?
I would say I've achieved 90% of my physical growth, of my physical success, without any kind of PEDs whatsoever.
But you also repeatedly in interviews denied taking steroids.
So it wasn't just a question of cheating, if you like, because that's clearly what steroids do in this kind of scenario.
But it was also a question of lying when you were directly challenged about it.
And I just think you obviously had, you know, I was aware of you because of the sheer huge presence you have online.
And my sons knew about you and everyone was sort of aware of what your shtick was.
But a lot of it was based around a belief that what you were saying was true.
And how do you feel on a human level to have to sit here now as somebody who's been proven to be a drugs cheat and a liar?
These are not things anybody wants to be accused of being, let alone admitted in being.
Yeah, listen, I feel like a total piece of crap.
I mean, I know what I did was wrong.
I lied about it.
I feel like I've let an entire generation down.
Part of the reason why I feel so horrific about it is I know what it feels like to be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 with zero self-worth.
Completely embarrassed and humiliated of the brain and body that I have, right?
And so when I connect with these young people, I know how they feel, right?
I feel like I betrayed a whole generation of people, you know?
And so what I would say is I hope you continue to engage with my content, right?
These nine ancestral tenants, these are the true north.
This will enable you to live a better life.
But if you don't engage with this content, what you still have to acknowledge is the true north is people are hurting and hating and suffering and struggling.
Okay, and do you still believe that eating raw liver is the real answer to life?
You should have some too.
I know you have to.
I've got some here, and I'm going to have some.
Piers Morgan eats liver with a liver kick.
You know what?
It doesn't taste too bad.
I'm not squeamish about food.
I'll pretty well eat anything, raw or cooked.
It tastes okay.
I couldn't imagine living on it three times a day.
But I could probably have a go.
Final question, and we're running out of time.
Are you ever going to take steroids again?
So I'm currently on them right now, and I have a plan to come completely off of them.
I believe so deeply in this message, the nine ancestral tenants.
I know that I can come off of them.
I know I can still kick ass in life.
Okay.
You won't see the same guy in a couple of months, but.
I've got to leave it there.
Good to have you on the program.
I appreciate the honesty.
Finally.
Thank you for joining me.
That's it from me tonight.
Make sure you keep it uncensored.
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