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Oct. 24, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
46:58
20221024_piers-morgan-uncensored-its-time-for-rishi
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Sunak's Return and Tory Unity 00:15:26
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Coming up on tonight's programme, Sunak is back if at first you don't succeed.
But can Rishi right the wrongs, unite the Tory Party and save the country?
He flew in, but his leadership campaign failed to take off.
Is this Boris Johnson's final bumpy landing?
And heavy is the head that writes the crown.
Netflix hit drama rounded sadistic and wicked for recreating Princess Diana's final hours.
Have they gone too far?
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored with Nadine Dorris and Emily Sheffield.
Good evening from London.
I'm Nadine Dorrie, sitting at the Piers for a couple of days alongside Emily Sheffield.
Piers, enjoy your sunshine in LA.
Nadine and I have got this one.
What a weekend it's been.
The grown-ups are finally back in charge.
Playtime is over and not a moment too soon.
The nation can finally bin that Valium prescription now that it is Rishi Sunak who will become the UK's 57th Prime Minister.
What do we need from a PM?
Well, someone who isn't a narcissistic nightmare would be a good start.
But the big priority right now is for a leader to sort out our nation's finances and reassure global markets that Britain can pay its bills.
Rishi understands in life you can't get something for nothing.
At a time when the country is crying out for fiscal responsibility, our new Prime Minister is already proving that he is the embodiment of that.
As Chancellor and in running for leader this summer, he showed he was willing to tell us the hard truths we all have to swallow.
In addition, his prophetic warnings about what would occur if Liz Truss took power flaunting her magic money tree came to pass with horrendous consequences for us all.
Whereas Boris seemed to struggle telling the truth about goings on in the past, Rishi will tell you, he says, what is going to happen in the future.
For the last year, the Tories have focused on their own psychodrama.
As good as Rishi Sunak may be, our problems remain huge.
Can he unify a party that has spent more time fighting each other than the opposition?
Can he get us through a prolonged recession, delivering compassionate conservatism amongst brutal cuts?
It's now time for some stability.
It's time for Rishi.
It's time for our politicians to focus on you, not themselves.
It is clearly now the will of the Parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader.
Interest rates go up.
Rishi Sunak, please let Liz Truss answer.
I don't accept those points.
Liz Truss is elected as the leader of the Conservative Unionist Party.
I'm not going to cut the additional rate of tax today, Mr Speaker.
I'm going to abolish it altogether.
How many people voted for your plan?
What do you mean by that?
Mr Speaker, I'm genuinely unclear, but it is clear that parts of our mini-budget went further and faster than markets were expecting.
I am a fighter and not a quitter.
I cannot deliver the mandate on which I was elected.
Rishi Sunak is therefore elected as leader of the Conservative Party.
Joining us in the studio this evening, political sketchwriter Quentin Letz, talk TV contributor Ava Santina and the Daily Mirror's associate editor Kevin Maguire.
Now we've just watched that little video and I can tell you that most of us sitting around this table and much of you watching probably feel like you've had whiplash for the last few months.
But Nadine, Nadine has had a ringside seat to all the craziness, not just of the last few days, but of the last many months.
Nadine, I first want to take you back because I think what's foremost in all our minds is what the hell happened the last three days.
Now, I know from our chats backstage that you were one of the first people to ring Boris on Thursday after Liz Truss resigned.
And you had some resignations about him coming back into the fight.
Can you just talk us through that first call with him?
So he didn't have reservations, but I think there were a very small group around him, people who were concerned about him and Carrie and the children and the family, and who we had our reservations about whether it was the right thing to do.
We felt so soon after what had happened.
Was this just a few of you that are left?
Yeah, a very, very few people.
Are you able to talk to us about who those few are?
But you were one of the first on the phone table.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And he's on the Sun Lounger at this point.
I don't know if he was on the Sun Lounger, actually, I didn't ask.
But he was, yeah, no, it was a very fast-moving situation.
It was, we didn't expect it to happen as quickly as it did.
And it was a bit of a shock, that 1.30 announcement, I think it was from Liz that she was standing down.
So things moved very fast.
And he was up for it.
He got on the flight home and he was ready to go.
So given that you had some reservations, when he said, no, Nadine, I want to do this, what were his reasons to you?
So, you know, we're facing, we are in a very difficult situation at the moment.
And one thing we do know about Boris is he is a winner.
And it's less than three years ago he won an 80-seat majority.
Is that what he said?
With the biggest vote since in a generation, I think he feels that the party is in a factional and perilous state and that it needed someone who those MPs in the Red Wall seats could see would win their seats and keep them their seats in the future and who could bring the party together and who had the ability.
You know, he has a unique mandate.
He was the person who was elected by the people at the ballot party.
Well actually Emily, you might say that, you know, but there are people in Red Wall seats like Red Carr in other places who have voted Labour all of their lives and they would rather have their toenails removed one by one without an aesthetic before they would say they voted Conservative.
What they say is we voted for Boris.
Well, I've had different parts of the project.
We're not going to argue that.
We do have a party system.
Well, you know, I would say that against Corbyn.
I would give that a lot of Labour voters were absolutely horrified by Corbyn.
I would take that back to you in as much as when I was Secretary of State in DCMS, I went around the northeast of England and spoke to a lot of people and there was a very definite positive Boris vibe in those areas.
You know, the MP for Grimsby, Leah Nicky, will tell you, he's loved in her constituency.
And I think he felt that in order to keep those Red Wool seats, it was his duty and his responsibility as the only MP in the Conservative Party to have a mandate to lead the Conservative Party.
Can I just ask you, Darren?
After 57 Tory ministers resigned from his government and cabinet, when you were having those initial discussions with him and those close around him, did this come up?
Because would he be the one that was able to unify his MPs around him?
Because you can't govern unless you do have the backing of your MPs.
So that's a much bigger question.
Actually, it led into a different discussion.
And that discussion was, you know, you could do this, but Rishi and Penny Mordaunt had to agree that the party needed to unify and that as he was the person who only...
Why did he think they would go behind him?
Because he was the only person who actually has a mandate from the public.
And a general election is the last thing the Conservative Party needs at the moment.
And it's pretty obvious, and I think we're seeing it today already, that if we put another leader who didn't have a mandate from the public to lead the Conservative Party...
party and to become the third prime minister in 50 something days, then then that would be indeed.
I just we're going to come back because I I think there's lots more to talk about what happened this weekend and and obviously you did have a very, a lot of insight.
You're you're on the phone to Boris a lot of the time, but Kevin is that right about?
He's the only one who had a mandate.
Yeah, he won in 2019.
In Brexit was his trump card.
He never delivered it the way he promised it.
Uh, he was up against Jeremy Corbyn, but nevertheless, he did win and he won a very healthy majority for the Conservative Party.
This trust didn't Rishi, Sunak didn't.
That's gone now and I agree with Nadine.
The case for a general election now, I think, is overwhelming.
Now, constitutionally parliamentary democracy doesn't mean there will be one, but I think if the new prime minister, Rishi Sunak, wants any authority legitimacy credibility, they have to win a mandate just, and that is why that's the main reason why Boris decided to stand, I believe, was because he does have that unique political mandate that nobody else in the conservative party has.
It's undeniable, you know.
It was about that day.
I think his winning street's gone, though I think there was a Boris Johnson uh 2019.
He lost the support of the party.
It only cannot continue.
It's only just over a year ago that we won the Hotley Pool by-election with a landslide but, of course, since then you've had Party Gate, everything else that came along with it, and you saw what happened in Tiverton Honeton, in north Shropshire, in Wakefield, in the Red Wall.
All those by-elections were lost heavily.
I just want to ask Quentin you you you, you're a sketchwriter for THE Times they came out strongly for Rishi Sunak why?
Why do you think Boris didn't manage to regather the support of his party?
I mean, there were plenty of people who, probably in the Tory party, had their head in their hands.
So, on a day like this, when you spend time at Westminster on a day like this, you realize what a bunch of wrigglers and darty-eyed lizards they all are.
And they are looking not just at the future of their seats, and you know that's a justifiable thing.
They're party politicians.
They're also thinking about their personal ambitions.
Who can give me a job?
You know who's good, who's up and who's down.
That is the most driving uh, sort of melodrama at Westminster on a day like this.
So it's a very peculiar place, the Palace Of Westminster, because it's this, just this crucible of ambitions and uh, there's a lot of that going on and a lot of the people who perhaps didn't want Boris to come back this time uh, in the parliament, among the mps, were people that he had not given jobs to or who might not have got jobs on the parliament.
I mean, Quentin are really sure there aren't, you know, some people who were really worried about Party GATE, of course, who were worried that Rishi also had been a lot of articles.
Boris got a lot of things right.
He got Ukraine right, he got the vaccines right, but there is no denying at the time when his government, when his government, can I get a poll to him, to Rishi Gate.
Can I just get a word in?
Rishi was also working, Working in the same buildings.
What Boris Johnson knew about Party Gate, Rishi knew.
Rishi was fined as well.
They were working in the same buildings day and night with the same people, breathing the same air, doing exactly the same thing.
Why do you think Boris is more guilty at Partygate than Rishi is?
I don't think he was a part of the police.
His party did think it was a short point.
And the polls were that he was minus 51 at the time.
He was deeply unpopular.
He had become a bit of a pleasure.
I do, because I think we could argue this out for hours, and I think we should concentrate on what's happened this weekend a bit.
And I just want to take you back.
He met up with Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordant.
And obviously, those meetings didn't go to plan.
Are you able to just, because I'm sure you were talking to him, what was his pitch to them, I guess, when he went in there about why the old gang should reform?
Because that's what we heard.
That was what he was saying to them.
Let's get this back together.
What do you think he said to Rishi or was hoping to say to Rishi that would make Rishi feel that they could work together cohesively?
So just to correct you on something you said a moment ago, you said that Boris didn't get the support.
I think we need to put this one to bed.
He had 102 signatures.
The support was there for him to go on the ballot today.
It was his decision not to as a result of those conversations.
And it brings me back to the point.
Wasn't that Rishi had far more MPs at that point?
No, all Boris needed to get quite a large number at that point.
All Boris needed to get onto the ballot was the 100 signatures which he had.
And we know, as the polling has very clearly shown, he would have won the vote.
I mean, after all, Rishi came secondly to Liz Truss.
Boris would very easily have won with the membership.
But it's not just about winning with the membership.
What George Osborne actually, in fact, pointed out on Sunday was that if you can't command your party and have the confidence of your MPs, you are not going to stay Prime Minister for very long.
Isn't that part of the reason he pulled out?
He knew he couldn't command his party anymore.
Well, I think that unity, as we has been spoken a lot about today, and that was incredibly important.
It is incredibly important.
You know, unity, stability, growth, all those things that matter moving forward.
And Boris went into those meetings with Rishi and Penny, hoping that they could reach an agreement that would unify the party on the basis that he was the only MP with a mandate from the public at the ballot box to be prime minister.
It's a very important point.
It's one that's going to come back to haunt us day after day after day.
You know, if we add up the nominations, Penny Mordant claims, Boris Johnson claims, Rishi Sunak claims, but there are more nominations than there are Tory MPs.
They can't all be telling the truth.
Actually, Kev, that's not true at all.
What?
90, 100, and 180.
80.
And then we get the 370, and there's about 350.
But we're talking about different stages of the process, as you know.
Does anyone hear, does anyone here think Rishi...
Ava, do you think Rishi's the man?
Do you think he's the right man for the job at the moment?
Well, I mean, Rishi said something interesting today in his speech, which was he would bring honesty and integrity to the role, which I think we haven't seen in a couple of years.
And we also know that, you know, the entire time, the entire administration that Boris Johnson would want to conduct over the next couple of months would be marred by this privileges committee that is going to be coming up and going to be right in our faces for the next few months.
You know that Boris Johnson is going to be called up in front of this committee.
It's going to be televised and we are going to publicly brand him a liar for a second time and he could be ousted by Christmas.
I don't think that the country is stable enough to have someone like Boris Johnson in place.
Rishi who's not marred by those accusations, perhaps it's a safer bet.
Well he was fine and actually that committee which has not set its terms of reference I'm sure very soon we'll expand those terms of reference to scoop in Rishi as well because as I said he was in the same building breathing the same air was also fine.
Let me just finish on one very quick question.
A yes or no?
Are you as a Tory MP, still a Tory MP, going to now back Rishi Sunak as MP and support him?
He's the leader of my party as Prime Minister of the country, of course.
Okay, brilliant.
Next tonight, more from our panel and Adine's thoughts on the gleeful BBC presenter being taken off air after a reaction to Boris Johnson pulling out of the Tory leadership race.
We're back in three.
BBC Review of Prime Minister Impartiality 00:11:22
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Emily Sheffield and Nadine Dorrance.
Stillweathers in the studio, Quentin Lett, Ava Santina and Kevin Maguire.
But first let's pass to Talk TV political editor Kate McCann.
Kate, we now understand Rishi will become Prime Minister after meeting King Charles tomorrow morning.
Yes, that's right, he will.
Tomorrow is going to be quite a morning because Liz Truss will chair her final cabinet in the morning where we expect her most senior ministers will want to give her perhaps a present, maybe even a card to say thank you.
It's been a very short time in office, but it is traditional for that to happen.
And after that, around 10.15, we expect that the Prime Minister current Liz Truss will give a speech in Downing Street.
After that, at around half past 11, Rishi Sunak will be the one standing in front of the lectern and giving his speech setting out exactly what he intends to do during his time in Downing Street.
And that will be, Nadine, a really crucial moment because we've heard from Rishi Sunak already over the last couple of hours.
He did a speech from Conservative Party headquarters, but I think it's fair to say that some people have been disappointed by the tone of that speech.
And what they want to hear from him is what he intends to do for the country, what he's going to do during his time in office, and exactly what his priorities are.
Because remember, we haven't really heard that debate during this leadership contest.
We know where he stands economically, but we also know he has a huge challenge and a lot of Conservative MPs watching to see what his next move will be.
So for him, that really will be a defining moment, I think, tomorrow morning.
So Kate, the party is divided at the moment.
Do you think that Rishi's got enough time over two years to bring us back together, to unite and to win the next general election?
Nadine, I feel like I ought to be asking you that question, not the other way around.
It's a very weird position for me to be in.
What's the move?
It's very weird for both of us.
It's very weird for both of us.
Look, I think the mood in Westminster today is generally relief, even for those who backed a different candidate during this election.
They feel that at least something has been put to bed.
But I think that will be temporary because, as I was just saying, there, the economic challenges that face Rishi Sunak during his time in office, and particularly that moment on Monday on Halloween when we hear that medium-term fiscal plan, that will really define the tone, I think, for him.
The big question, Nadine, is how he's going to bring a cabinet together that, as he says, will contain all of the talents.
That will mean moving some people out and moving others in.
Will he do enough to unite the party and to give people the feeling that he really is listening to every wing of the Conservative Party in Westminster?
But I actually think the bigger question, and Nadine, tell me if you think I'm right here, is about the membership because I do believe that there is this growing gulf between the MPs in Westminster and the membership of the Conservative Party in the country.
And I think tonight there will be many members who feel frustrated at the way this process has happened.
They may in time get behind Rishi Sunak too if it looks like he could win the party in election.
But you tell me, I mean, I feel like some of them at least feel quite frustrated by how this process has played out.
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
There are a number of Facebook groups and various social media groups, as well as emails coming in to MPs from members.
I think one of them has got 45,000 members on who are very, very angry that they've been disenfranchised.
I mean, what is the point of them being members of the political party if they have no say who's going to be the leader of the party and the prime minister moving forward?
So you're absolutely right.
I have heard that it's going to be Rishi Sunak's first public appearance, both to members and to is going to be PMQs on Wednesday.
So we'll all be able to judge how he's going to do then.
Thanks so much, Kate.
Thank you.
Joining us now from Westminster, Conservative MP and former cabinet minister, George Eustace.
Now, George, just for some of our viewers, you've served under Cameron, you've served under Theresa May, you served under Boris Johnson.
You served as an MP with Liz Truss, but she did in fact sack you from your job.
Given the psychodrama we've all had to endure, what makes you think Rishi Sunak can succeed?
We're going through record numbers of prime ministers.
Well, we are, and I know to many of your listeners and viewers, that'll seem quite extraordinary that the Conservative Party put in place a new leader and a prime minister just a few weeks ago, and it hasn't worked out.
The truth is, Liz Truss made some quite bold moves, but moves that in the end were very risky.
And those risks came home to Russ and it was very hard for her to regain her footing after that.
And after a number of other missteps, the party lost confidence in her quite quickly.
And under our constitution, prime ministers, they're not a presidential system.
No individual prime minister has a mandate, as some people talk of it.
We have a parliamentary democracy and prime ministers only exist while they have the confidence of parliament in general and their own parliamentary party in particular.
And she didn't have that.
So I know it's remarkable, but it's necessary for us to go through this.
And I actually think that Rishi Sunak has got the judgment and the temperament and the ability to deal with complex issues and detail to be able to rally the party behind him and make the kind of right decisions we need to get through these difficult times.
George, you were a Rishi Sunak supporter over the summer.
I actually saw you during that period.
And I think he definitely has the economic capabilities to run the country at the moment.
But his speech today, a lot of questions sort of remain whether he's got the sort of political savvy, I suppose, to deal with this job.
And also the communication skills.
We saw a speech today that was almost a bit of a car crash.
It was robotic.
There was a sort of ghastly pause at the end.
Liz Truss was a terrible communicator.
Is he going to be any better at communicating what he feels is right?
Tehe is up to not only having to put in some really fairly horrendous cuts at the moment and having to explain that to a fairly doubtful nation, but also get us through a general election.
Oh, I think he is a good communicator.
And I saw him in all of those hustings over the summer.
And there was something in him that actually reminded me a bit about David Cameron.
I've worked for three different prime ministers.
They each had different strengths and different weaknesses.
But the thing about David Cameron is when he went on to do an interview or do a speech, you never feared for him.
You didn't think he was going to sort of mess it up or say something silly and he generally didn't.
If he was asked something left field or unpredictable, he could manage it.
And I see that in Rishi as well.
And sadly, we haven't really had that in some of the other prime ministers and party leaders we've had in recent years.
Rishi performed incredibly well, I think, in all of the hustings over the summer.
The party had that debate.
And as for today, look, it's not a day when he can announce everything he's going to do.
Obviously, he's made clear he wants cabinet government.
He wants to get a cabinet in place, use that cabinet properly, deliberate over things properly and make decisions correctly.
And, you know, he has to be prime minister first, and that will happen now tomorrow.
Then he has to appoint his cabinet and then he has to get cabinet buy-in for the kind of measures he wants to take forward and that's exactly the right thing to do.
Are you hoping for your old job back?
Well, I think he's very clear, to be honest, that he's going to have to balance all wings of the party.
And, you know, I had a reasonably good innings.
I did nine years in DEFRA under three different prime ministers.
Would I like to go back into government?
If asked, yes, of course, I would.
But, you know, all prime ministers have got a very difficult balancing act.
They need to make sure that their cabinet represents all wings of the party.
And there's an important reason for that.
If you just pack your cabinet with people who are loyal and supportive to you, then you don't have people who understand your parliamentary party.
So the reason why the cabinet must be brought.
What do you say to Labour's Party?
If a Prime Minister...
Sorry, what do you say to Labour's charge?
We need a general election.
I don't accept that.
We don't have a presidential system.
Boris Johnson didn't get the mandate in 2019.
It was as much about the message as the man.
And the message that won the Conservatives the last general election was get Brexit done.
Rishi Sunak was a Brexiteer.
He campaigned for Brexit.
He was part of the cabinet that got Brexit done alongside Boris Johnson.
And there's lots of other things in that 2019 manifesto.
That's our mandate.
It's what all of us are elected to do, and that's what we should deliver.
George, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
A BBC presenter has been taken off air after she admitted to being gleeful over news that Boris Johnson had pulled out of the leadership race.
Let's take a look.
Well, this is all very exciting, isn't it?
Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be bringing us tomorrow.
Am I allowed to be this gleeful?
Well, I am.
Then what do we do after that?
Nadine, what do you make of this?
You tweeted about this earlier.
So in my previous role, I was culture secretary.
And the BBC has a problem with impartiality.
One they recognise because they've introduced a 10-point plan to deal with the lack of impartiality.
I thought it was actually shocking because, you know, people perceive the bias in the BBC to be amongst political reporters and political presenters.
But this is somebody who wasn't even in the political grouping of people you'd normally expect.
They had all the people pulled her off air, which is the right thing to do, no?
It's just it's a problem, you know, and it will be a problem.
Tim Davey, who's the Director General of the BBC, is something he's trying to grapple with every single day.
I would have thought Tim would have been pretty horrified.
He would have been.
He will have been.
It does seem extraordinarily unprofessional.
Quentin, what was your view of that?
I'm a right-wing sketchwriter, and it's not really for me to tick off other journals for showing bias.
But if you are a BEEB presenter, it becomes tricky.
It's tricky for the BBC.
I feel a bit sorry for the woman, but I don't think it's really my Sarota review, the Dyson review.
We've now got the impartiality plan from the BBC.
There is a fundamental problem within the BBC, and they need to deal with it.
We're acting like there's some sort of corruption or a virus in there.
I mean, it's just a woman who laughed a little bit too loud.
And frankly, if it's anything, it's embarrassing.
But she didn't.
She laughed too loud.
She made the comments that she was.
But she didn't make the decision for Boris Johnson not to run.
She had nothing to do with the political sway.
But you know, who did it?
The Director General, Tim Dearby of the BBC, was a Tory council candidate.
The chair of the BBC used to work for Rishi Sunak as a Tory donor.
I've lost count of the number of BBC political journalists who went to work for the Conservatives in government, including Gibbs.
Gibb who's on the board.
Who's not?
He's one of the most off-frequent political.
May I just say, as somebody who is on the left, it is not a hotbed of socialists, alas.
I wish it was.
Why then did we have the Dyson review?
The Sarota review, the impartiality plan.
I'm just trying to work out, by the way, what are they going to give Liz Truss for a present?
Are they going to give her a box that's half sucked after eight?
Russia Escalates Threats to Ukraine 00:10:25
I don't know.
I don't know.
So they're all done.
So she's not going to be able to do that.
When you've only been in power for 44 years, don't feel like it feels like it.
44 days.
It feels like 44 years.
What we've gone through.
Are all the normal processes just sort of out the window?
I mean, she's going to be giving her leaving speech tomorrow.
She can't sum up like other prime ministers have, oh, my years full of the country.
She can say, well, I can sum up my 44 days crashing the economy.
What's she even going to say tomorrow?
Well, I don't think we are going to get me, sorry.
She's going to call for unity.
That's what she'll do because that's what we need right now.
Do you think?
Who's unity?
Sorry, the party.
The party does not have to be.
The only unit here is one, you all hate each other, and two, none of you want a general election.
Well, it's exactly the same in the Labour Party.
They want a general election.
Well, they do all hate each other.
Coming up next, we turn our attention to Ukraine.
Is Putin about to unleash a major escalation?
We're live in Kiev with the latest.
Welcome back.
Next tonight is Vladimir Putin preparing to use a dirty bomb on Ukraine.
President Zelensky said Russia could be planning an attack after weeks of airstrikes left millions of Ukrainians without power.
Russia's defense minister rejected the claims and said Kiev had its own dirty bomb.
Joining us now is Olga Redenko, editor of the English-speaking Ukrainian newspaper, The Kiev Independent.
Olga, I saw you in the summer in London.
What's life like in Kiev now?
Hi, Emily.
Good to see you again, and thank you for having me.
Well, it's been a time of a lot of anxiety for us in Kiev now because, as you mentioned, the Deuterbomb threat, that is the newest of several major escalation threats that Russia has been throwing at Ukraine in just under a week.
There have been three major escalation threats, and one is the Deuterbomb.
Before that, we were talking about Russia's threat to blow up a major dam in southern Ukraine that holds off a huge water reservoir and born up the dam would flood a huge chunk of land and potentially kill lots of people.
And before that, we were talking about a potential new invasion from Belarus from north, which would threaten Kiev.
So it's one threat after another.
And the dirty bomb threat, the latest one is probably the scariest one.
And at the same time, at the same time, Russia has been doing this exhaustion strategy because, as you said, there have been weeks of attacks on Ukraine's energy facilities.
And as you said, Ukraine is a lot of us are left without power.
I'm lucky to have power in my apartment tonight, but that means that probably I will not have it in the morning because there's a schedule of outages.
And that's our life now.
And how often are you losing power?
And also, when I was messaging you, you've been in and out of bunkers and the drone attacks.
I mean, what kind of effect has this had on how people are feeling on a day-to-day basis?
I think, you know, just talking to everybody around me, everybody feels a lot of exhaustion because I think just watching it on the news from outside of Ukraine, you can't really understand how it is draining on your nerves and on your mental health, just living in this constant fear, especially in the past several weeks when Russia has intensified attacks.
And exactly one week ago, five people were killed in Kiev when one of those drones hit a residential building.
And yes, I was in a lot of shelters.
I believe, including us.
Yes.
And how does that kind of be?
She was six months pregnant.
Yes, her husband and she and three other people in that building were killed in that attack.
And, you know, a civilian five-story building in central Kiev, not any, nothing military inside.
So, but that's what Russia is doing now.
And yes, we've been having daily air raid alerts and we're taking them very seriously now.
That's why when we texted earlier today, I was in and out of a shelter.
And how do you think Ukraine can win this war, Olga?
I mean, you and I have been in touch for many, many months now.
We're still here.
You and I are very much of the opinion that Ukraine can't be ordered from elsewhere, from Europe or America, that Ukraine does a deal with Russia.
But how do you see this ending then?
Yes, absolutely not.
I think even those who have been thinking in the West that Ukraine could be pushed into some kind of a deal with Russia, into a compromise, sacrificing lands, I think that view is less and less prevalent because,
I mean, just being here and talking to people and seeing the sheer resilience and the sheer, you know, the way people feel about Russia now and how every time an attack like this happens, every time, you know, a civilian family is killed in a brutal attack on a Ukrainian city, that adds to the resilience and to being ready to fight to the end.
And I think, you know, I'm not an analyst, but I firmly believe that the only way to end this is a complete defeat of Russia, and it has to start with a military defeat.
And that's why, of course, we need for our Western parties, including the UK, to keep supporting us.
Okay, Olga, thank you so much for coming on the show tonight in such difficult circumstances.
Thank you, Olga.
Please stay safe.
Thank you.
Also, whether there is Ukrainian culture, Mr. Alexander Chenko, how much longer should the West keep supporting Ukraine?
Alexander, it's fantastic to see you again.
The first time we met were the dark early days of the war, and you were sat in a bunker trying to protect works of art which were stacked around you.
How is it now and how is life in Ukraine right now for you?
We are fighting and I can agree with my colleague from Kyiv Independent that the only way how we can succeed this war is when Russia will withdraw their troops from Ukraine.
So according to latest opinion pools from 80 to 90 percent of Ukrainian citizens agree with President Zelensky that there is no question about any sort of agreement arrangement with Russia until they will do it.
And if we speak and if we speak about latest attacks, the main reflection of Ukrainians is raising of their anger against what Russians are doing against civilians and civilians objects.
So, Alexander, in the summer, things seem to get a bit easier in Kyiv.
Are you back in a more difficult situation now than you were then?
Is it getting worse?
No, Nadine, I believe that at the beginning, it was the main reflection was a sort of probably we didn't know what to do, but now we definitely know what to do.
It's a fight against Russians and a fight for European values in different spheres, not only on the battlefield, but also in cultural sphere, in the sphere of fighting against propaganda and information.
Many things that we were talking about.
So, Alexander, thank you for that.
You know our hearts are with you and I hope we speak again soon.
See you come by.
Thanks.
Bye-bye.
Nadine, you work with Boris.
He was incredibly involved with the war in Ukraine, supporting Ukraine.
Lead us through where that support came from, because he did, in fact, he really did leave these.
No, he did.
And, you know, there were many big calls that Boris got right.
And, you know, you've mentioned, we've mentioned some of them earlier.
But Ukraine, the advice Boris was given by white hall Mandarins and everyone was do not get involved.
But he took what was a very difficult decision to be the first Western country to provide lethal aid to Ukraine and to arm Ukraine and to train Ukraine's soldiers.
And I truly believe, and many truly believe, and Ben Wallace, the reason why he supports Boris as much as he does, is because Boris stood up for Ukraine when everyone else in the rest of the world was saying don't.
It's too soon, it's too early.
And I truly believe that if Boris didn't do what he did, Ukraine would now be annexed by Russia and Putin.
It was that early help that they got from the UK, despite the advice, despite the pressure on Boris not to do it.
It was that early help they got, which has helped.
Alexander, to be honest, can I just ask you one quick question?
Do you think if Rishi Sunak offered Boris in the next few months a sort of Ukraine envoy job, would he take it?
Because he is passionate about it and he is a very good communicator on that topic.
And he's, you know, he's an expert.
You know, Biden said to him in their first call, in their first G7 call about Ukraine, over to you, Bud.
Royal Family Pressure on Netflix 00:08:26
You know, you lead the conversation.
Do you think you're taking bowed to his knowledge?
He has incredible knowledge of not just the region, but of the world affairs.
Would he take it?
If he was offered a role, do you think he would take it?
I haven't asked him, but you know, I will ask him that question because I don't know.
He's got a lot to do, a huge amount of offers coming in at the moment.
So I'm not sure.
Next tonight is Nothing Sacred.
Is it right to turn British tragedy into a glossy entertainment?
Well, we'll be discussing season five of The Crown next.
Now, the upcoming series of The Crown has come under intense criticism due to its portrayal of the royal family.
Dame Judy Dench has called for a disclaimer to be added to the show for the sake of a family and a nation so recently bereaved.
And former Prime Minister John Major has dismissed the series as a barrel load of malicious nonsense.
In light of the events of the last 12 months, perhaps I have more to reflect on than most.
Have royal scandals damaged the country's reputation?
I won't go quietly.
I'll battle till the end.
How did it come to this?
Still with us in the studio is the Times political sketchwriter Quentin Les.
And a warm welcome to historical novelist I'm a fangirl, Philippa Gregory.
Quentin, do you think it's a bit soon after the death of Her Majesty for Netflix to be screening something as sensitive as this?
Basically, Nardina, I'm a live and let live person and I also dislike any sort of constraint on freedom of speech.
But that shouldn't stop us saying that this is the behaviour of malicious scavengers and that Netflix, or at least the Crown people, are behaving like vultures.
But they are, we should see them not as vultures perhaps.
We should see them as ticks or fleas on the hide of a magnificent Leviathan, a great sleek bear that is the royal family or that is monarchy.
And so, you know, they're a small TV outfit.
Who watches Netflix?
And I think, you know, just let them have their bit of their little minor bit of drama.
And it is a drama.
It is a drama.
Yeah, but what about the boys?
No, Prince William said that.
Well, that's where you get into.
This is where you get into what a former, there was a man called Lord McGregor, who was in charge of press complaints, and he talked once about dabbling in people's souls.
And this is where you get into slightly difficult waters, because yes, this is a fiction, and, you know, fiction has a very important part to play in our lives and in our art and our culture.
But at the same time, it's fiction based on drama, and it's so recent that that's where you start treading into these slightly sort of...
But what about the disclaimer, Quentin?
You know, this England with Kenneth Branner had a disclaimer on the front.
That said at the beginning of every episode, this is fiction.
Well, does that mean that?
They're only going to put it on the trailer, not the actual programme on the episodes.
Do you not think, why would they put it on the trailer?
Why wouldn't they put it on the episodes that air?
Well, I think you probably have to be a bit stupid if you don't understand the Crown is based.
Don't they think it's a documentary?
I don't know.
Perhaps they should also have a disclaimer saying that we, Netflix, employ Prince Harry.
So how could he possibly be upset about this?
Well, they don't actually employ him, do they?
Well, they give him loot.
Well, he's made, they're making a documentary.
Quite a lot of it.
They're not actually employing them.
But do you not think they should...
Spongoolics are involved in the making of that programme.
But there is a build-up of pressure for Netflix to put a disclaimer on the front.
Do you think they should bow to that pressure?
Will they bow to pressure from Sir John Major?
I think they possibly might ignore him.
But they have put it on the trailer already.
So we could see movements.
I don't know.
I think this is a hoo-ha, and we enjoy getting upset about it.
And it is a bit unseemly.
It's unsporting.
It's unkind.
But it's...
Well, Philip, fiction can be unkind.
And yeah, Philippa, I've read all your novels.
So do you think that it's wrong that the royal family don't...
I mean, you wrote about an amazing novel about Elizabeth I, but the royal family today, they don't have a right of reply.
It's not a historical documentary.
It's very much involving members of the royal family who are alive today.
Do you think it's wrong that they don't have the right to reply?
Of course they have the right to reply.
They just have to speak up.
Nobody's stopping them speaking out.
When they want to speak out, they do.
When they want to sue people, they do.
They have every right to reply.
But this isn't a factual account that they can sue for libel over, though I would imagine that, depending on how close Netflix gets the wind, there might be things that would look a lot.
But nobody thinks it's real.
I mean, if you show me one person who thinks this is history, then we'll have a completely different discussion.
Because what we're told are people to do.
I think this is how a lot of people do view the royal family.
And I think that's a credit to the writers as well.
Well, everybody's actually complaining about the fact that it doesn't carry a disclaimer.
Do you think that's the only thing that's important?
Is it close to the bone?
The people who are complaining about the fact that it doesn't have a disclaimer are the people who don't want the story told in the way that the journalists at the dramatists are telling it.
It's not that they're complaining that it's about real people.
It's that they're complaining that they think other people, not their intelligent, literate, well-read selves, are getting the wrong end of the stick.
And this is just a usual thing about stupid people out there are doing stupid things and I should set them right.
So Philippa, is it close to the bone?
Do you think it's closer to the truth than perhaps those people who are complaining don't realise?
Well, since the Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover the royal palaces, there's no historian that can check it out.
The fact-checking that's based on...
But it's private lives.
How can it be checked out?
Because they're monarchs, because they're royal.
But they're still private people.
They're individuals have a right to privacy and to not have their private lives televised or made into factional documentaries which veer very far from the truth.
Nobody has that right.
I know we all have that right.
But can we really argue that about the royal family, Dean?
I mean, no, we're talking about some of the most famous people.
They're arguing people in the world.
And what we're arguing now is whether it is a painful thing for the two brothers who lost their mother.
But that is 25 years.
Well, Emily, you have to do it.
They don't have to watch it if they don't want to.
You have edited a big newspaper and you know that there are, it's not necessarily written down in law sometimes what one can write about.
It's to do with where the acceptable bans are on the sport of it.
And Netflix do, they trade in, they trade in a slightly dodgy way on this, and that they try to do present this by making it so, such a facsimile of and making the characters so lifelike, making them all sound like the real members of the royal family.
They are trading on slightly half truths there.
And the real truth in this, the truth is not to do with who said what, when, and where.
It's to do with aspects of character.
And I think that the great truths in life are based on character.
And we know what the character of the Queen was.
We know what the character of King Charles is.
And I think that the public will see through that.
And the audiences will establish a truth of their own.
I mean, my actual personal opinion is the Crown has done an enormous lot of good for the royal family, including King Charles, actually, because I think the portrayal of him as a young man was very sympathetic.
And we saw elements of him that maybe made us think when he feels a bit wooden or when we saw him at his accession, there was a moment when he got a little bit angry and a bit testy.
There's that childhood scene when he sent after Gordon Stern and his mother turning away from him.
I think it made us realize what some of the sort of pressure of growing up in that family was.
So maybe the argument is the royal family can't have it both.
And it's good for the royal firm in America, of course.
Quentin and Philippa, thank you so much.
Two sports of Just Stop Oil have covered Madame Toussaud's waxwork model of King Charles III with chocolate cake today.
Cop26 Resolution and Oil Disruption 00:01:16
The climate activists are demanding the government halt all new oil and gas licenses and consents.
Nadine, what do you make of this?
Well the Tarquins and the others were in Central Lobby in Westminster today up to similar antics.
You know it's an indulgence.
You know we've been saying for a long time we have to stop this.
They disrupt everybody's lives.
They stop ambulances getting to hospitals.
They stop people getting to work.
They stop children getting to school.
They deface statues and monuments.
They just have to stop.
It's totally unacceptable.
Oh, well, COP26 was the most successful COP conference there has been held ever in the UK.
I think they're essentially better than the objectives of 2025 than next year.
And are you continuing with the COP26 resolution?
Yes, as well.
Well, we have a new leader.
There they are dressed up as just stopping.
I think I'm not.
We are making some oil on the programme tomorrow, so they'll be able to come and defend their actions to us directly and to you.
That's it from us, but we'll be back again tomorrow at 8 p.m.
Whatever you're up to, make sure it's uncensored.
Good night.
A good night from me.
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