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Sept. 15, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:48
20220915_piers-morgan-uncensored-could-the-queens-death-uni
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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MPs Barging Through Mourning Lines 00:14:19
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, tens of thousands join an extraordinary four-mile line to pay their final respects to our late Queen.
But why are MPs barging to the front?
Will the Queen's death unite the kingdom or is King Charles the Catalyst for Scottish Independence?
We'll debate that.
And as some of the American media sneer across the pond, I'll take on one pundit who says the Brits have gone bongers this week.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well good evening from London and welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
We've seen the absolute best of British this week.
Pomp, pageantry, history, ritual, remembrance, class, respect, and yes, queuing.
We love queuing in Britain.
We're the best at queuing, I would say, in the entire world.
It's what sets us apart from the rabble.
There are those who jostle and snarl in sweaty mobs.
I've just been in France.
And there are those like us Brits who politely stand in line and wait our term.
Hundreds of thousands of people are doing just that, even as I speak, to pay their final respects to our late Queen.
It's a queuing masterclass.
They've come from far and wide with deck chairs, flowers, sleeping bags, sandwiches and camaraderie.
Some are waiting eight hours to file past the coffin and say a final personal goodbye to the only monarch most of us have ever known.
And what's been striking about the faces in that queue is their diversity.
Every colour, every race, every faith, every age, every class.
Queen Elizabeth meant something to all of them.
It's a reality check for those who think of Britain as a disunited, racist hellhole packed with bigots and bad attitudes.
There's actually a lot that's still great about this country and a lot that brings us together.
And the Royal Family is most definitely one of those things.
And so do good queues.
But sadly, not for the first time, our MPs have spectacularly missed the mood.
Incredibly, they've each been handed a pass so that they and four family and friends can skip the entire queue and just move to the front like a VIP express lane at the airport.
But needless to say, cleaners, caterers and other workers in Parliament have been afforded no such privilege.
There are people in that line who've literally flown in from as far as America and Australia just to be there.
The MP's behaviour is rank entitlement and frankly a royal slap in the face to ordinary members of the public.
Why do MPs think they're better than the rest of us?
If you want to pay your respects, members of parliament, well get in line with everybody else.
Well I'm joined now by political journalist Ava Santina, talking to V International Editor Isabel Oakshot and former First Minister of Scotland Alex Salmond.
So welcome to all of you.
Alex Salmond, there are lots of privileges of being an MP.
I don't think skipping one of the most egalitarian queues in history where you are all the same should be one of the privileges afforded MPs.
I think any member of parliament who took advantage of the family and friends' four passes must have taken leave of their senses.
I mean I was in a fortunate position.
A, I'm not a member of parliament, B, I was able to pay my respects to St Giles Cathedral on Monday.
But an MP would have to be conscious of the miles-long queue and even if offered the opportunity would say, no, no, I'll either queue my constituents or I'll pay my respects in another way.
And it would reflect so well on them if they had, but we saw, I think we've seen Theresa May in there today, Angela Rayner from the Labour Party.
They're all skipping the queue from what we can make out.
So you think it's wrong?
Well, I think it's wrong, but I also think it's not good politics.
I mean, you would have thought an MP could have done worse than be in the queue, right?
I think, I mean, I saw priests, ministers, lots of people in the queue helping people queuing, but also getting the opportunity to talk about.
I just had a message from my old Good Morning Britain co-host Susannah Reid into her sixth hour of queuing with the British people, with her mother and a friend.
And I thought, good honour.
I have to come in here.
This is absolute pompous twaddle.
Seriously, they are members of parliament.
The houses of parliament is their workplace.
Why should they not take advantage of the fact that that is where they are?
Why should they not have to queue up by the rest of the British public?
Because of the fact that they've got a job to do.
They've got a budget.
They've got to pay their salary.
So you would rather.
I'll tell you what, we pay their salaries, literally pay their salary.
Nothing to do with it.
Everything to do with it.
Why are they somehow?
Would you prefer that they wasted their time spending hours standing around rather than dealing with constituents?
But they're not actually dealing with anything at the moment because Parliament isn't sitting and they've got their constituency work.
They've literally done five days of official parliamentary work since the start of the summer.
These people have hardly done any work.
Not to say that the Queen, imagine the late Queen, wouldn't mind if somebody couldn't, because of pressure at work, queue for five hours.
She honestly would not have minded.
There are many ways you can pay respect.
If you're able to queue for five hours, if you feel you must do it, that's a great thing to do.
But you don't have to do it.
And let me ask you two, right?
Especially you who've come out of the traps flying.
Yeah.
Because I'm led to believe you yourself have skipped this queue.
This is going to be framed really badly.
This is going to be framed.
You know what I mean?
You've both been in.
But it didn't happen.
Well, no, no.
I don't mind if you want to defend yourself.
I didn't go in because I care particularly about the monarchy or the queen.
I went in because it's my job to cover things.
I went in to assess the mood and then come on here and talk about it and tell you what I think of it.
And Isabelle.
I am not even remotely feeling defensive about this.
I think you're being absolutely...
You didn't queue at all, right?
I think you are being absolutely ridiculous.
I am a journalist.
It is my job to bear witness to these things.
Day in, day out, people like Ava and me are on shows like this talking about the mood, talking about what's going on.
How can we do that from an ivory tower?
You have neglected your duty as a presenter.
Digital partner, Richard Tice, a very good friend of this show and a great pundit on here, did he do what you did and skip the line?
No, he didn't.
And I'm very proud of him and his decisions.
How many hours did he line up?
He is a politician.
I am a journalist.
He is a politician.
He had even more reason.
He could have easily skipped it.
We chose not to.
But he's not an MP.
He's not an MP.
He's a politician.
But let me say...
I bet he could have done exactly what you did.
Let me say he would not have done that because he and I differ on this.
Why do you think you're better than the British public?
I've been going better.
I think that I've got a job to do.
No, I'm not saying, come on.
Why should the British public be queuing for eight hours in actually a lot of hard work?
I've done that shit.
We have actually a former first leader of Minister of Scotland agreeing this is a very bad optic for politicians.
And you two.
But it's where they have the brass leg to say, no, no, no, we shouldn't be queuing like the public.
I've been interviewing on the queue for hours.
I've put in more than an eight-hour shift over the last few days.
I've been down in Westminster more than the Queen herself.
How can you report on something properly, Piers, if you don't take advantage of seeing it?
Now, I don't think you don't.
You have to go there to see what's going on.
Well, you're just seeing the students.
What have you seen that wasn't on television?
Well, should I see that in the real bag to see how they look in real life either?
Should I just read about it online?
Like, obviously, when a bigger person is not afraid of the people who are in the world, neither of you have had any qualms about the fact that there are people there who are in their 80s and 90s.
They don't have to queue exactly.
You've just explained why you do it.
Hang on, you've just explained why it would have been a good idea for you to go down there because then you would know that anyone in a wheelchair does not have to do that.
Because I was there, I actually saw how it worked.
Not in a wheelchair.
Yeah, but your argument just collapsed.
You're a completely able-bodied human being.
You said, why should people have to be?
It's perfectly fit to be queuing.
You chose not to.
You just can't be bothered, even though your own partner is.
I said that I have got other things to do in relation to my day job, which is being a journalist, which is.
You don't think everybody else has other things to do?
Well, they've chosen to be there.
It's not their job to be there.
They've chosen to prioritise paying respects to the Queen.
That's not what I would do with my time.
Isabel, everyone's doing the same thing.
Everyone's there to pay their respects to the Queen.
You just don't think you should have to queue.
This man of the people act, Piers, I'm not buying into it.
One of the few times that I've seen you socially, you were at the Arsenal match.
You were in the Diamond Club.
You were not slumming it with the people.
You were not in the cheap seats.
You were in the Diamond Club.
You know that because you sat next to me.
Let's drop this.
I didn't avoid any cues to the Diamond Club.
Of course, you didn't get to the cups.
I didn't get parachuted in.
You get the parachuted into the nicest bit of the society.
You know what?
I've been on the case of MP.
I'm not buying into the past.
Listen, let's move on from that.
But Alex, I want to talk to you about this issue which I had yesterday, again about MPs.
I think it's ridiculous to have the party conference season now, and they all go off on recess for another 26 days.
The Speaker of the House, Lindsay Holland, has just come out and agreed with me.
And he says they should cut the time of the party conferences.
He'd like to see them return on Tuesday, 11th of October, rather than the following week.
I'd like to see them completely cancelled.
What's your view?
Well, I think this idea of coming back in the autumn, I think that Robin Cook introduced it because he was worried about the long recess.
This idea of coming back for a couple of weeks and go off for the party conference was always a bit daft.
I'm not certain that having MPs in Parliament is the greatest thing on earth anyway.
I mean, you know, I think if they concentrate a bit more than what they were saying, party conferences is a lot of hot air and a lot of drinking.
But wasn't it?
Well, yeah, no, they're meant to do other things like make policy and stuff like that.
But look, I would certainly wouldn't say you should cancel the party conference season because of the Queen's death.
And I think far too much has been cancelled.
And I also think the Queen would have said that.
I mean, last Saturday, they cancelled or they postponed the St. Ledger.
Now, anybody on this earth who believes that Her Majesty the Queen would have wanted to see this ledger postponement.
The one that got me was the last one of the problems.
How could you possibly not think that thousands of people singing Land of Hope and Glory and the national anthem while waving flags would not be an appropriate way to pay tribute to it?
I might have missed out Land of Hope and Glory, but never mind.
The whole point is you have to judge the person.
Now, the day that she died, the day after she died, yes, of course.
The day of the funeral, yes, of course.
But a cancellation, I don't condemn people because the game was all about the show must go on.
I think she would have thought for the...
They're the funeral.
I'm totally in agreement with that.
Let's talk about...
Go on.
No, can I just get this clear?
Are they now saying they're going to come back on the 11th of October?
Because just to be clear, the Conservative Party conference ends on the 3rd or the 4th of October.
So there's no reason for that gap afterwards.
Why can't they just quit?
I just don't think there's any reason.
The Tories have had six weeks of a leadership campaign.
They don't need to carry on listening to speeches by people who are trying to improve their political standing.
I just don't get it.
I've been to these party conferences many, many times.
They are a massive hoolie.
And right now, with the worst cost-living crisis in decades, the idea of a bunch of politicians on the lash in seaside resorts, that doesn't fly for me.
Can I just, full disclosure, I'm going to go to one of the things that we're going to do.
Of course you are.
Of course you are.
You can have a government.
And the irony is you'll actually be lining up for those parties because they have to for security reasons, won't you?
Yes, I'll be curious.
Let's tell you.
You should not be on the lash.
Let's get that.
I will not be on the lash.
I will be on the lash.
Alex Sammon, Scottish independence.
A lot of people think that there was a bit of momentum before all this happened.
And certainly that Boris Johnson was in a way almost fomenting that support.
They now feel that all these events in the last two weeks, new prime minister, a new monarch, the death of the Queen, has actually unified the United Kingdom in a way that very little has for a very long time.
Do you think that the cause of Scottish independence has actually been put back by what's been going on?
No, I don't.
And I think it's really silly for people to confuse respect for Her Majesty the Queen with political issues like Scottish independence.
I mean, if you go back to an even more pertinent point, the death of Princess Dana, which was a few days before the Scottish referendum and devolution, and lots of people said, oh my goodness, this is going to change everything.
What actually happened was people spent a week paying respect to Princess Dana, and then the campaign started again and people voted exactly as they were going to vote before Princess Dana died.
So I think people hope for it.
People hope that this great event is going to somehow benefit when you see how...
Just don't do the work.
Get on with the workers of the world.
But when you see how poor Brexit is going, right?
This great seeding of this great country from Europe, we're going to stand alone and conquer the world.
None of that has happened so far.
I'm not saying it won't.
I'm just saying nothing has happened so far.
Nothing has happened to make me think an independent Scotland should be following the same path.
Why would you not have qualms having seen what's happened with Brexit?
Well, perhaps because an independent Scotland would have a much deeper relationship with the rest of Europe and be in the single market and have all the things that Breakfast is.
So you do like being part of a big union.
You just don't want to be part with the English and the Welsh.
It's part of a single market, right?
Well, I've always found all about prosperity.
The thing about the SNP I've always found weird is that they all say that.
They all say, look, we can't wait to get away from the shackles of this union.
But they can't wait to get shackled to the Union of European Union.
Okay, but let's take two decisions.
Brexit you've mentioned, well, obviously Scotland would have voted a different way, had a different attitude to Europe.
That's a big thing.
Why would you rather be part of a European Union?
Than the United Kingdom.
Yes, because the European Union is not the same as an incorporating union.
The European Union is a union of states.
In my view, not in some view of others, Britain was still an independent country when it was a European Union member.
Germany is an independent country.
Denmark's an independent country.
But how would the border work?
This is something that intrigues me as we've seen what a shambles it's been.
Well, we're going to rebuild Adrian's Wall Street.
I think we've got an exact analogy for the border now in the position of Northern Ireland.
The Scottish is going really well.
Actually, Northern Ireland has just recorded its best economic performance since statistics began.
Northern Ireland's Union Dilemma 00:05:33
Why?
Because it's part of the single-in a skillful political way, you are ignoring the question.
Where do you put the border?
When you separate yourselves from the terrible hordes of the English.
Right, okay.
There's no people border because that's the free travel area that was all up?
No, that was established in the 1920s, even before you and I were born, Piers.
But, you know, in terms of checking goods, that's what's being done in Northern Ireland at the present moment.
The goods are checked.
Well, Northern Ireland is a complete mess.
No, it's not a mess.
That's the point.
Politically, Johnson didn't like it.
Why don't they like it?
Because it's been successful.
Economically, Northern Ireland, let me say again, has its best relative performance to the rest of the UK since records began.
So Ava, you're nodding.
So do you agree?
Do you think the UK should break up?
I don't think that the UK should break up, but I think it's farcical that we pulled Scotland out of the EU and we pulled them out of the single market.
I think that's absolutely mad.
It's not a silly point.
It's quite an obvious point, isn't it?
It's not really, because we are all part of the United Kingdom.
But why is it mad that the UK operates as one entity?
It's not mad.
Because that's not the whole point of the United Kingdom.
Because you've got devolved powers that are being forced into damage.
We remain the United Kingdom.
I've got a few bright ideas by someone tufts.
Okay, for the most recent UGAD polls, there's a 55% of Scots would vote to remain in the UK.
We are the United Kingdom.
The last referendum failed.
So I don't see why should Scotland have its own say on, for example, Brexit?
Why should they?
Because it's failing there.
There are lots of things the Scottish don't agree with.
We've done the Scottish people.
We are the United Kingdom.
But we've done them so dirty.
I really don't think so.
We have.
We promised all those fishermen that they were going to have trawlers full of fish.
They were going to have massive success.
And they have been obliterated by Brexit.
So it's totally fair to give them another say.
All right.
Let's take a break.
Let's have a little chill pill.
I'm going to come back with more of my pack.
Mourners still queuing through the night.
Amazing scenes, actually, in London.
To we Brits, it makes perfect sense all this queuing.
Across the pond, they think we've completely lost our minds.
I'll explain my notions of good old-fashioned British respect for one American pundit.
Welcome back to Petersburg and our senses and Ava Santina, Isabel Ogshan, Alex Salmond are all here in my very lively pack this evening.
Quite rebellious, actually.
We may have to put them back in their box in a moment.
I want to talk to you about, well, this is a great clip, actually, because I've been wondering about these guards who've been guarding the Queen's coffin and obviously putting it in and out of hearses and then standing guard.
It's a long time to stand in often quite warm conditions.
And we had this guard who collapsed yesterday, actually fainted and faceplanted, just straight down.
We can see that again, but it was really to see that again.
Just so you can see exactly what happens.
He's there, bang.
I mean, that is a real.
And then what was bizarre was they put him back up and then he carried on standing there for a little bit, clearly, completely out of it, until eventually they realized it wasn't a good idea.
The show could definitely not go on.
I really feel for him.
It must be difficult, you know, to have that happen.
We've seen it happen in a few puppy things before.
And I sort of show that.
Let's turn to a more contentious issue.
Harry and Megan.
I don't like to keep talking about these two, but for some reason, they always be.
I don't really.
I find them very irritating.
But today it's reported they're furious because their children, Archie and Lilibet, are to be denied royal titles.
This is because Harry's no longer a working royal and nor's the mother Megan.
What do you think of this, Alex?
Should they be.
It's complete rubbish, of course.
I mean, the idea that young Archie, who I think is three-year-old, is going to the nursery in Los Angeles and saying, this is awful.
I can't go.
I'm only a prince.
I'm not His Royal Highness.
It's ludicrous.
But don't they want to...
Having said that, I'm just a wee bit suspicious.
You see, but you're always on Megan's back.
And I read today.
Well, actually, and his.
I don't really differ any.
The both of them.
But I read that they are objecting furiously, etc.
I'm kind of suspicious.
I'm not sure that Deal Express and the Sun know that they're objecting.
Although we do know from the Oprah interview that they were furious in that about this potential issue of the titles.
My view is: we had the debate about the uniform.
I thought if Andrew's going to be allowed to wear one at one event, Harry should be allowed to wear his.
However, on the titles, you can't have your royal cake in Edit, can you, Isabel?
I mean, if you leave Britain and Royal Duty, then your kids don't get to be HRH.
Sorry.
I think they're extremely lucky that their children are going to be prince and princess.
I was quite surprised to read that.
And I don't know whether that's because you can't take that away.
Is it impossible to take it away?
But I think that they should be extremely grateful that they've got that and just so boring.
I just really don't care.
I think they've gone off and they're living quite happily.
I don't think they care at all about this title nonsense.
Why would they tell Oprah Winfrey?
They care at all.
That's very careful.
Literally told Oprah Winfrey to get.
They're off in California.
They're having a really nice time.
She's looking really fit, might I say.
She's looking probably the best she's ever looked.
That must drive not going to be wild just how nice she looks.
I don't think they care.
I think if it's something to do with getting royal protection, then I still think we should pay for that because they are really, you know, open to being harmed.
Cutting Income Tax Now 00:05:43
Let's turn from two people who've been spectacularly class-less in the last couple of years to someone who I think.
But you've been asked to.
Not you two, not you two.
You've had a wobbled tonight, but we'll get you back on track.
Let's turn to someone who I think is the epitome of class who just announced his retirement from tennis.
Roger Federer.
Greatest of all time, Alex.
Well, I have to say Andy Murray, obviously.
Well, of course, of course.
But in terms of male players, I mean, a good argument for the Williams sisters as female players, but as male players, Federer, yeah.
I mean, Federer, I was fortunate enough to watch him wimbledon twice, and the backhand is just a thing of beauty.
But also, his whole demeanour.
I just like the way that I like the way he is, Federer.
You look at someone like Kyrios screaming and ranting and shouting and being about 66, are they?
I like him as well.
Well, yeah, look, they're good to watch the bad boys, aren't they?
Like Macenara stuff.
There's something about Federer, which is the epitome of class, I think.
He's a really good role model, and maybe that's a bit boring.
I don't know.
But, you know, they've got this huge charitable foundation, don't they?
He doesn't do any of the theatrics, any of the ridiculous faces, any of the attention-seeking.
He just plays tennis brilliantly, and that's his job.
It's a very nice tribute to him from Rafa Nadali's great rival, wishing him all the very best of retirement.
You have any thoughts, Avid?
I know you know nothing about tennis.
Cracking calves.
Other than you get lots of champagne when you go and watch it.
Cracking calves.
Cracking calves, is all I know about him.
Alex Salmon, are you going to the funeral on Monday?
Well, I haven't received an invitation.
If I get one, I'll go.
Although, to be fair, I was at the service at St. Giles, and so, and, you know, so that I was able to pay my respects there.
Underlying all this, when we get back to relative normality on Tuesday, we're facing this unbelievable economic crisis.
Kwasi Kwatem, the Chancellor, is reported to want one of the first things that he does to solve this problem is to remove caps on bankers' bonuses.
I've got to say, when I read that, I was like, are you reading the room?
You think that people in this country, right now, Kwasi Kwateng, the one thing they want in a cost of living Armageddon is let's give bankers more money.
You know, Kwasi is a rich guy.
The previous two chancellors were richer than him.
Right?
He's the poorest chancellor out in the last three.
Do you not think it's bad politics?
Look, his ex-Chase Morgan is a very vulnerable point.
I mean, because he's obviously favouring his family.
He doesn't have the mindset of a banker.
Look, I know him really well.
That is not how he thinks.
This is about setting out.
Why don't you go out in the street, Isabel?
If you're about to start defending this, go out in the street and ask the first hundred people you meet: should bankers get a new uncapped bonus as part of our way of tackling the cost of living crisis?
I wouldn't be setting policy according to some vox pop on the street in the queue.
Oh, but it's not.
It's just having your ear slightly to the ground, isn't it?
I mean, it's just being a bit aware.
Like, they get paid.
Right now, it's 200% of their base pay.
That's their bonus.
I really don't.
I don't know how bad that is.
A bit like you were there.
I don't care.
I'm not sure.
No, but there are children going to school.
Sorry, there are children going to school at the moment who can't qualify for free school meals.
There's worry off things.
There's worry on Monday that when the schools close, children will go hungry because they can't get their free school meals.
And we're going to go to the banks, but anyway, it actually is.
And the other thing, I mean, we've had two things from this government so far under Liz Truss.
One is that the bankers will have uncapped bonuses, so they're going to get richer.
All right, so you want bankers to be richer as the people actually get poorer.
Those two things are not.
And secondly, energy companies should have no windfall tax because why should their profits be stemmed as people literally can't heat their homes?
Do you know what, Piers?
I've got really bad news for you.
This is just the beginning of what this government is going to do.
You watch, they are going to do unconsciously.
Why are you saying that proudly?
They won't last long.
Right, exactly.
I mean, look, I'm an oil economist by profession who worked for a bank.
You should definitely not uncap bankers' bonuses and should definitely have a windfall tax.
Well, I'll give you the serious economic reason.
That one factor, not the only one, but one factor behind the crash of 2009-10 was risk-taking in the financial set.
That risk taking bonuses.
That's why it was brought in, Isabel.
Rich people right now don't need to get richer.
They don't.
That's not the priority.
The priority are food banks and kids who can't afford their school meals.
Not whether bankers are going to make 10 million or 20 million.
Wealth creation and a rising tide lifts all boots.
What?
This trust is going to cut all the taxes, apparently.
Good.
It's not going to work, is it?
Well, I tell you what, hammering people on tax doesn't create more revenue.
You do realise.
Do you know about the Laffer College?
Do you realise that if they carry on with this attitude, I think they are going to get one of the mother of all shellackings at the election?
I agree.
I agree.
But why would you encourage that?
Because it isn't about winning the election, it's about doing the right thing.
Isabel, not only do I know what the Laffer Curve is, I met Art Laffer, and I can tell you the Laffer Curve does not apply to bankers' bonuses.
We're talking about income tax, is what we were talking about at that moment.
How can he possibly cut income tax right now?
I'm not cutting income tax right now.
But what taxes will she cut?
I imagine that they will go down the route of that.
Later on, they will probably cut top rate of tax because it doesn't actually generate anything.
All it does is send out the business.
You know what they should do?
She keeps pretending to be saying they will not be able to do that.
This trust keeps pretending to be the new Maggie Thatcher.
She should go and study what Maggie Thatcher did when she came to power.
She inherited a very bad economy and she put up some taxation and had a windfall tax on oil companies.
And then when she stabilised the economy, then she cut income tax and other taxes.
Prince Harry's Military Respect 00:03:04
That's what the great heroine of the Conservative Party did.
This Tory Party doesn't seem to know her history.
Anyway, thank you to my pack.
Great to see you all.
Such lively form.
I appreciate it.
Well, coming up, the UK is in a period of profound national mourning.
But across the pond in America, many of them think we've lost a plot.
We'll debate that next with this gentleman who thinks we've all gone mad.
And Anne Coulter, who, surprisingly, is racing to the Brits' rescue.
Well, welcome back.
Well, in the last few moments, it's been revealed that Prince Harry will be allowed to wear a military uniform alongside seven of the Queen's grandchildren for a special memorial service on Saturday.
Palace officials intervened after he'd been banned from wearing his uniform, although his uncle, the disgraced Duke of York, Prince Andrew, had been given special dispensation by his brother of the King, King Charles III, of course, to wear one at one of the events.
This is a victory for common sense.
It's also exactly, of course, what we've been saying on this programme, what I wrote in my column for the Sun.
It seemed completely irrational for me that Andrew, who has committed, in my opinion, far worse offences in terms of diminishing the monarchy's reputation than Prince Harry, that he should be allowed to wear his military uniform.
We've been joined by Ant Middleton, British war hero, former star of SAS on Channel 4.
It was way better when you were doing it, by the way.
I agree.
I disagree.
We've got you on to defend our country against the American media that we're going to be doing in a moment.
What is your view about this uniform issue?
With Harry.
Because obviously, just to be clear, if you are a veteran and you're not a serving member of the armed forces, you don't traditionally wear a uniform, right?
It's only serving members of the military.
But the royals obviously have honorary positions, and as such, that's why they're allowed to wear them.
Edward quit the Marines, but he gets to wear one because he's, and so on.
The problem, it seemed here, was they made an exception for Andrew to wear his at one of the events.
And I felt you couldn't possibly do that and not let Harry do the same.
Well, Andrew, it's controversial.
You know, I don't really want to get into that debate because we all know, you know, our feelings and thoughts on that.
But Harry, Harry served.
You know, he was one of the lads.
You know, he was... heavily connected to the special forces.
He actually presented me with my barrier and belt when I got badged.
Did he?
Yeah, so I got badged, went to Paul, and himself and Prince Harry and Prince William were there, and they presented me with my barrier and belt and he was known to be one of the lads and he served.
He's been out to Afghanistan.
He served, so rightly so.
He should be allowed to wear his uniform.
I have no problems with that.
No matter what you think about him, you know, he deserves to be able to do it.
I don't think you can take that one.
You cannot begrudge him full respect for his military service.
He did two tours of Afghanistan and I would never begrudge him that at all.
I've got other issues with him, but it's nothing to do with his military service, which was beyond reproach.
Americans vs British Monarchy 00:12:37
Stay with me, Anne, because we've got to get into this big debate that's raging over across the pond.
Here, of course, we've been in national mourning.
The queue to see the body of the late Queen is 4.9 miles long, stretching from Westminster Hall to well beyond Tower Bridge.
If you join my line now, it'll take eight hours to reach the front.
And of course, his outpouring of patriotic fervor is not unexpected here in Britain.
Neither does the side of the royal guards marching beside a coffin protected by the crown jewels perched atop a velvet cushion.
This is what we do.
But does the pomp and pageantry burnish Britain's image as a nation of history and finesse?
Or as some people across the pond in America think, have we all gone slightly mad?
Is it just pomp and pageantry hysteria?
Well, political commentator and columnist Michael Luciano and journalist and author Anne Coulter joined me from America and I've obviously got the star.
Well, he's the former star, but he was to me the star of SAS Who Dares Wins?
When it was a show worth watching.
I do the Australian show now, so there we go.
Yes, and it's excellent because you're on it.
All right, Michael Luciano, you're a columnist over in America and you think we've all lost our minds.
Why?
Well, it's the year 2022 and you all still have a monarchy up there.
It does not have the kind of political clout that it used to, which in a way makes it even weirder because the royal family serves no real actual function and yet you just kind of keep them around.
But so I would say like here in America, we've lost our minds even more because I understand all of the coverage of the Queen's death and the ascension of Charles.
I get that from a UK perspective.
But we here in the United States, for some reason, are also all in on the coverage of the royal family.
Well, I think it's buyers' remorse for getting rid of George III, isn't it?
You know, you wish you'd never done that.
You've had a series of...
Let's be honest.
You've had a lot of presidents, some of whom were great and some of whom were complete turkeys.
And each time you get a turkey, you think...
Totally, totally.
Maybe we should have had George III and his bloodline and just carried on.
You might have had King Piers by now if you played your cards, right?
Yeah, no, the whole reason we fought the revolution is so we wouldn't have to care about any of this stuff and yet we're still caring about it and the media is in total overdrive.
George Washington is rolling over in his grave in a way I guess at this point.
Look, I can understand why some Americans don't get the concept of a monarchy.
What I find really objectionable is what some American academics have been saying.
So there's this woman called Uju Anya.
She's actually an academic at Carnegie Mellon.
She teaches people, this woman.
And she tweeted this.
I heard the chief monarch of a thieving, raping, genocidal empire is finally dying.
May her pain be excruciating.
This woman is an assistant professor teaching people.
Another assistant professor in Rhode Island tweeted she would dance on the graves of every member of the royal family, especially hers about the Queen.
Now, Michael, this to me crosses a line.
And I would feel the same if anyone in Britain said this about a president who just died.
What is wrong with these people?
Well, you know, some people just have had different experiences with the Queen and the House of Windsor more broadly, going back to, you know, a few centuries.
So I can't really speak to the experiences that they have had and their families and their ancestors have had with the British monarchy.
It is not something I would have tweeted, but I am not going to pass judgment.
Really?
You're not going to pass judgment?
You're not going to say that you condemn that?
You think it's not worthy of condemnation that somebody who teaches students in America the Queen died of excruciating pain?
Why wouldn't you condemn that?
Yeah.
It's not something I would have said.
It's not great.
I don't know who that person is.
I don't know what kind of clout they have.
Absolutely.
Look, it's disgusting.
Let's bring in Anne Coulter.
And I think you like the pomp and pageantry of all the royals.
I mean, so many Americans I know love it.
They've been as obsessing about all this as we have.
What's your view?
Well, I'm not quite an obsessive, but in response to Michael's point, I belong to an organization that celebrates my many, many ancestors who fought in the revolution that ended our connection to the monarchy.
Yet and still, I don't want a monarchy here.
Very proud of those ancestors of mine.
But this is a country that was, did live under the monarchy for 176 years.
I love the monarchy, not an obsessive.
It costs less for Britain to have the monarchy than our national endowment of the arts and national endowment of the humanities.
And I think you guys get a lot more out of the monarchy.
I mean, the things they provide, I don't think it would be fun at all to be within the royalty.
And I would recommend the wonderful movie Roman Holiday, which is a great movie, but really, really makes that point.
It's a lot of work.
They can't just, you know, poor Kate can never wear like a cut-off jean skirt and a crop top.
She can't dress up all preppy.
She has to look elegant and beautiful at all times.
And she does.
They all do.
They are so elegant.
They are role models.
But I don't even think it would be a fun life.
And they do it.
And wow, do the tourists like it.
And I really enjoyed the ceremony that was going on this past weekend.
They kept cutting it away from it on MSNBC to talk about, you know, the evil history of colonialism.
I would also add that the world was never so good as when the sun never set on the British empire.
Also, the whole point about this colonial issue.
Let's bring in Anne Middleton again.
The whole point, which a lot of Americans who are being severely critical of this queen don't seem to understand, is that she took us out of this.
You know, she was the one that helped preside over bringing us out of the empire, decolonized a lot of the colonization.
She should be applauded for this, not castigated and blamed for the sins of the past.
And that's what's ingrained in our DNA.
That's what's ingrained in our blood, is where we are today.
A lot of people want to go back a couple of centuries, and if that didn't happen a couple of centuries a day, we wouldn't have the most open and welcoming society as we have today.
You know, the queen is our grandmother.
You see this academic who's teaching people, saying that she hopes the Queen's pain was excruciating.
It's disgusting.
It's absolutely disgusting.
And how she ever thought that that was acceptable.
There's nothing to say about anybody.
About anybody, let alone a 96-year-old respectable young lady like the Queen.
How they get away with it is beyond me.
It's a good job she's in America, not in the UK.
That's all I can say.
I just find it's a kind of repellent behavior.
And she's of classic kind of woke academic.
Let me bring back Michael here.
Michael, is there any part of all this which you can look at and wish you'd had a bit of this in America?
No.
Really?
Yeah, really.
Because I'll tell you why.
I think what we feel here, and I'll have this chat with American friends.
What we feel is that the difference between your system and us, we obviously have a democratic system of electing prime ministers and governments, the same way that you do with presidents.
It's the same kind of thing.
But the point of the monarchy, if there is such a point, and you could simplify it, would be that we have this continuity above the democratic process.
These are unelected people.
Yes, it's hereditary, but they all understand what their job is.
And their job is to act as kind of comforter-in-chief to the country in bad times.
And they do it when they do it well, incredibly well.
This queen brought huge comfort and solace to this country for 70 years.
And it's that part of it, I wonder whether, even if you don't agree with the idea of a monarchy, do you not sometimes wish that you had in America this kind of non-partisan, non-controversial family over the top of the politicians?
No, I have an innate aversion to hereditary aristocracy.
I think the Brits as well as the Americans are hard-nosed enough to be able to do without such an aristocracy.
And, you know, frankly, I regard the royal family as I regard the Kardashians here.
I mean, they are famous for being famous.
They're very wealthy.
There are too many of them.
And I try to avoid all mentions of them as much as humanly possible.
I mean, you did, just as a country, your immediate prior president was a TV star.
Reality TV star.
Yes, and I did not like that at all.
I did not like that at all.
I mean, your own Democrats are not.
It's not exactly fault-proof, is it?
No, it isn't.
But, you know, at least we didn't elect the Kardashians.
I'm not sure we did much better with Trump, but no.
No, there's, listen, I mean, the best thing Charles could do is to end the monarchy, and he would be, hands down, my favorite monarch.
Right, well, that's never going to happen.
And Coulter.
Could I say, I think the Kardashian point actually makes your point, Piers.
He's right.
I mean, what, that's our royalty?
These utterly tacky, disgusting people.
You have a beautiful monarchy.
I think you do make a very good point about having a non-partisan head of the country, though I agree with, I'm sorry, is it Michael or Matt?
Yeah, Michael, yeah.
Okay, I agree with Michael that I don't want a monarchy here, but you know, I don't want bullfighting here.
I do want it in Spain.
It's part of what Britain is.
And I think the colonies all owe Britain for the wonderful things Britain did to them, bringing indoor plumbing and railroads and educational institutions and ending hideous practices like throwing the widow on the funeral pyre, getting the resources out, creating wealthy countries out of just third world hellholes.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
The reparation should be going back to Britain.
Do you know what?
Maybe you should come over here and be a defender of Britain as your new full-time job.
I would like to.
Could I also say something I really like about King Charles that I don't think gets mentioned enough?
I mean, okay, global warming, blah, blah, blah.
I wish he'd dropped that.
There are enough people covering global warming.
We don't need him doing it.
But one of the things I really, really, really strongly support, and especially having just recently been in London again, is his opposition to crap architecture and wanting to preserve the beautiful buildings and restore old buildings.
London is such a beautiful city.
I think it's the most beautiful city in the world.
And you're going along seeing these old, gorgeous buildings.
And there are some modern buildings that are cool and nice, but most of them are just pieces of crap that get thrown up.
And he gets very little credit for that.
He has excellent taste.
I wish he would really hit that hard as king and save London from ugly architecture.
I never thought I'd say these words, but Britain salutes you, Anne Coulter.
Thank you very much indeed for your support.
Let's play a little bit of the anthem in tribute to Anne Coulter there.
And just for Michael, just to annoy him.
There he is.
He's loving it really.
He's feeling the stirring of his soul.
There he is.
I will stand with you, Pears.
And by the way, I would stand as well for the American National Anthem because when I'm in America and it's played there, because I believe you have a great system too.
Michael, I appreciate you joining me.
Anne Coulter, thank you very much for joining me.
And you're going to stay with me.
Real Fur or Faux Alternatives 00:03:47
We're going to debate whether bear skins, the hats that all of our great guards are wearing, should they be allowed to do it anymore or should they be banned?
We'll have that debate with someone from PETA, the Animal Right Organization, who of course are permanently furious about absolutely everything.
So we'll have that conversation in a moment.
Three cheers for His Majesty the King.
Hip hip!
Hip hip!
Well welcome back.
The towering fur hats of the King's Guards are iconic and historic, but there's a catch.
They're made with real bear fur, animal rights charity.
Peter wants them banned.
Joining me now is Jennifer White, spokesperson for the charity, and Middleton.
All right, Jennifer.
You and I have locked horns before about a number of issues.
Why do you want these banned?
Well, it's simply inexcusable that the Ministry of Defence is continuing to wage this war on black bears, especially when it takes one bear to make one cap and a viable faux fur alternative exists.
And we know in Canada, these bears are mercilessly gunned down by hunters for fun, and then their pelts are sold to fur auction houses.
And a lot of the bears, when they are shot, they escape injured and then they're left to bleed to death slowly or starve to death.
Is there a good enough alternative?
Don't replace a real fur.
There is, and I wish I could have brought it in.
We've got one of the actual ones here, right?
So is there one that looks and feels exactly the same?
Yes, the cap which has been designed by Ecopel, which is a luxury faux furrier.
It has passed all of the requirements needed.
It's durable, it's waterproof.
The fur is the exact same thing.
The MOD say that when it gets wet, they're not good enough.
They're not wet.
Well, the MOD has yet to actually meet with Peter and Ecopel to discuss this in person.
Ricky Gervais supports you, isn't he?
Yes, on this issue.
A lot of lovely self-taught.
Ant Milton.
I don't like animal cruelty.
I don't think you like animal cruelty.
Absolutely.
Some of the stats here, I mean, in a five-year period, the MOD bought 891 cats for the Queen's Guard, which Peter have estimated took 1,000 bears to die in the process.
Is it time?
I mean, given Charles's views about the environment and everything else, is it time we considered fake versions of this?
I'm against animal cruelty, as any normal person should be, but I'm not against culling and population control.
You know, whether that's deer, whether that's bears, you know, I don't know how the process works, but if there's a culling process and the tradition is the bearskin, you know, they're on postcards, they're part of our culture.
But they wouldn't look any different is the point.
Well, if they wouldn't look any different, then there's an argument there.
Of course there is, you know, and there's always a way forward.
But you might get a little bit sick of people trying to change our tradition.
No, I've got bearskin in the story.
If they were trying to get rid of them wearing anything that looked like this, I'd understand it.
I've got to say, my natural instinct, Jennifer, with you, normally is to completely disagree with everything you say.
I'm slightly torn on this.
Well, I mean...
Because to me, it all comes down to if they can actually create something which looks and feels the same, why would you need to kill a bear?
Well, that's the thing.
And we have created something that looks absolutely indistinguishable.
And that's what we need to remember.
It's the look of the caps that are iconic, but it's not what they're made from.
And it actually just falls out of favour with modern Britain.
Like 95% of British people wouldn't wear fur.
You know, her magic.
The MOD does say that a faux fair alternative to bearskin cap is available to any guard who conscientiously objects to wearing fur.
I don't know how many have actually objected and do wear the faux fur.
But I've got to say, Jennifer, I find myself in a very unusual position.
Well, I think you might have a point.
Half Right About Guards 00:00:41
Oh, my God.
I'd be interested to know what the guards themselves feel.
Whether they feel passionately it should be real or not.
Or whether someone are already wearing the faux one.
Well, also, just to quickly interject, the bears are also not culled.
You know, these are the point you raised.
Yeah, these are licensed hunts, which is just when hunters pay to get tags.
We're running out of time.
I'm going to go find out whether half of what you're saying is correct.
But if it is, I might be on your side on this.
Matt Middleton, great to see you.
Good to see you.
Really miss you on the show, but you're killing it ever since.
Great to see you both.
That's it from me.
I'm back on Monday at 8pm with an extended two-hour edition of the show reflecting on Quinners' funeral and I'll be co-anchoring train the signal full spot.
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