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Sept. 7, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
46:31
20220907_piers-morgan-uncensored-should-we-bring-back-corpo
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Monarchy vs Celebrity Danger 00:09:22
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, fears for the Queen as she postpones another formal engagement.
Doctors have now ordered the 96-year-old monarch to rest.
Youth crime rising and fears over gang violence.
Could teachers smacking kids again be the answer?
A school in America brings back corporal punishment.
And militant vegans on the warpath vandalising Big Ben and gluing themselves to the road, demanding we all go meat-free.
We are here outside the House of Parliament with concerned members of Animal Rebellion asking the government to transition to a plant-based food system.
I'll be going toe-to-toe with one of those protesters right here live.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well, good evening.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Prime Minister Liz Truss met with her cabinet for the first time today.
And these were the proud, smiling faces of the people she's charged with sifting through the rubble of a broken nation.
They all look quite cheerful, don't they?
Like they don't know what's going to happen to them or us.
But these are the people we have to trust now to rebuild a country where families can pay their bills, where businesses can hope to survive the next six months.
Will the lights actually stay on this winter?
A lot's been said and written about this top team already.
Apparently, Liz Truss is now the sole survivor of the David Cameron administration.
We're told it's the most diverse cabinet ever.
Not a single one of the four great offices of state is now held by a white man, perish the thought.
But there are monasteries too, of course.
They groan that some things have a change because two-thirds of them are privately educated.
Others fear she's repeating Boris Johnson's mistakes by packing her squad with allies and benching the experienced players.
Some critics have even rather impudently wondered why a cigar chomping plus size karaoke fan is our new health secretary.
But here's the point.
I don't care.
I don't care where they went to school.
I don't care if they like a cigar and a pint.
I like a cigar and a pint.
I don't care if they voted leave or remain.
I don't care if they backed Boris or supported Rishi Sunak.
I don't care if they're black, white or screaming violet.
This is a wartime cabinet, quite literally, given what's going on in Ukraine.
All the British people care about is whether they can fix this unholy mess.
Liz Truss keeps promising us she can.
The word she keeps using is I will deliver, deliver, deliver, deliver.
In her campaign to be leader and our prime minister, she made a staggering 149 policy pledges.
149.
This new cabinet has a lot to live up to.
If they can step up and deliver, as she says they can, the country will not only back them every step of the way, will cheer them when they do it.
But if they break those promises, if they don't deliver, if the country gets worse, not better, we'll be watching and we will hold them to brutal account.
Well, joining me now are my PiersPack, talk to you contributor Esther Cracker, broadcaster and journalist Jenny Kleeman.
And this is very exciting.
The BBC's international editor and author, Jeremy Bowen.
Welcome.
Thanks for inviting me, Piers.
It's brilliant to have you here.
It really is.
It adds a touch of class.
Not the you lady.
But a touch of class.
I want to start.
Well, first of all, welcome to all three of you, obviously.
I want to start, first of all, with the Queen, because we've just seen her in this unprecedented situation where Boris Johnson and Liz Truss got up to Balmoral for the first time to do the official process of the handover to be Prime Minister.
And she did look okay, but she looked frail.
I mean, the pictures, she just looked frail.
She's 96 years old.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Now we hear that she took a turn for the worse.
She's got to spend some time now resting.
She couldn't attend a Privy Council meeting after doctors intervened.
Ongoing health issues, obviously.
I guess Jeremy, for me, as you're the nearest to her age, obviously, what do you think about all this?
Because it seems we've only known one monarch in our lifetimes, any of us.
I just feel like it's going to be such a seismic moment when she's not here anymore.
I think that the national outpouring will might even dwarf what happened when Diana was killed.
I think it's going to be absolutely huge and a national trauma of the greatest extent.
Yeah, you're quite right.
I was born in 1960.
She's already been on the throne for eight years at that point.
It's amazing, isn't it?
It's absolutely amazing.
And you've travelled the world where they don't have monarchies.
What do you think of the institution of the monarchy in the modern times?
Well, I think it's worked for Britain.
I think the Queen herself is a national figure like no other, you know, universally respected, even by people who say they don't agree with the monarchy.
What will happen after that, I think people might ask more questions because, of course, there are people who say that maybe we've had enough of the royal family.
But I think that while the Queen's there, of course, those questions are very much on hold.
One of the problems, Esther, is we have the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and all that drama going on.
A report tonight from Omid Scobie, this, in my opinion, revolting little specimen who keeps popping up as the Sussex's lickspittle mouthpiece and keeps trashing the royals on their behalf, tonight trashing Prince William, saying that he believes until William admits his accountability for all the terrible things he's done to Meghan and Harry, they can't be reconciled.
They're literally in Windsor Park tonight.
Half a mile from each other, these two boys, and they haven't even said hello to each other.
This is damaging.
It's not just damaging to them and their relationship.
It's damaging to Charles, who also hasn't seen Harry.
And apparently, I was told on good authority this week, he feels incredibly hurt by what's going on.
He's going to be king sooner rather than later, probably.
But this is also damaging to the foundation of the monarchy.
I think this is now the best time for the monarchy to transition.
And I think, I know no one has made this point, but I do think the Queen should abdicate because I do think the country should be...
She won't do that.
She won't because of her sense of duty.
Well, no, it's actually because they believe in the natural law of succession.
They believe that once you interfere with that...
I was told this by somebody senior in the royal family, that if you start interfering with the natural process, you then let other things come into play.
For example, if the Queen was to abdicate and Prince Charles gets killed in the car crash the next day, God forbid, you have a constitutional crisis, which is why they don't abdicate.
I mean, we've had one in the last few hundred years.
But I think that the issue the royal family has is how do you rebrand?
How do you become more tolerable?
Because obviously we're seeing this feud with Harry and William.
And I think it's very unpalatable.
And I think it's actually a disgrace to the Queen's legacy and what she's worked so hard to build.
And you have these two freelancers on the other side of the world just basically making money off her legacy and off her years of hard work.
I do think that maybe it's time, okay, if she won't abdicate, maybe Prince Charles should step up and take sort of more.
I don't know.
I think the monarchy was devised at a time when you could never imagine someone living 96 years.
And the thing about the Queen is she is all about dignity.
That's why she doesn't want to be seen in a wheelchair or with mobility aids.
She's a very dignified person.
And I think her having to continue until the very end kind of goes counter to that.
And again, with the Harry and Megan business, you do have to think about the question of dignity.
And I don't think there is anybody, Republican or otherwise, who would say that the Queen is not...
You cannot have a renegade royal family running around whoring those titles to the highest bidders.
You can't.
It's incredibly damaging.
That's why I've been on about this for quite a while, because I could see the danger to the actual future of the monarchy.
If it looks like the royals basically don't do any public service or duty, they fly around in private jets preaching about the environment, and then they cash in their titles to Netflix and Spotify for hundreds of millions of dollars.
Aren't Harry and Megan getting more and more unpopular?
Lisa.
Well, in America.
They are.
They are.
But I think the damage, the drip, drip, drip damage to the integrity of the monarchy should not be underestimated.
There needs to be a distinction between monarchy and celebrity.
They're two separate things and there isn't.
Which the Queen's always understood.
Yes, which the Queen's understood.
And I think maybe Megan didn't understand that when she married into the royal family.
Oh, I think she understood completely what she wanted.
I'm very cynical about it because I think she's this is all an actress at the top of her game getting what she wants out of this, using our royal family to make herself very rich and famous.
But I think that will only work as long as people want to hear her and I think I'm getting a certain amount.
I think the thing is we'd find her less distasteful if she did it for free.
You know, she talks about all the things that she wants to do.
She wants to have to spend some time.
Ashley, give up the titles.
Just be Meghan, Markle and Harry, right?
And go and do your thing and fine.
See how you get on.
What I have a problem is, is they come back here to boost their royal status, to remind people that they are royals, because that's where the money is.
And then they trash the monarchy and the institution and they trash the other royals.
I mean, you just can't have it always.
Nick's Deliberate Super Brat Act 00:02:43
Anyway, enough of them.
I want to play a little clip.
This is Nick Kirios.
You a tennis fan?
A little bit, yeah.
So Nick Kyrios, who's this obviously super brat, good player, but a super brat, did very well at Wimbledon.
I came up a little bit short, was doing one in the US Open, loses, and then he does this.
It's coming, I'm told.
We're on bated breath here.
Well, we don't have it, but it's worth waiting for because Nick Kirios has been trying to convince us that he's a better man.
He says he's overall.
He's overall that.
He's come through it and he can take it.
He can take defeat.
There's no problem.
It's all okay.
And then he threw one of the most almighty tantrums ever seen.
Look at this.
It's the second one that is so pathetically childish.
Like, get over yourself, you big baby.
He's just trying to show that he cares.
It's good branding.
He's the bad boy of the world.
We're talking about it.
It's nearly not okay.
It's not okay.
Obviously not.
And if Serena Williams had been violent like that, there would be such a lot of people.
Well, actually, Serena Williams has done stuff like that.
She hasn't done that.
And she has been roundly castigated.
She's being rude to a lion judge.
You know, that's really, really aggressive.
It's really...
Jeremy, have you ever smashed things in your job?
I've still got a tennis racket I bought about 20 years ago.
I would never smash it.
They cost a bomb.
Because you always strike me, I've known you a long time, you always strike me as an extraordinarily calm person when all around is exploding.
I don't smash things.
I mean, I'm often surrounded by people who are smashing things, often with guns and quite big ones.
But no, I don't see.
I mean, I guess maybe that's his way of dealing with his rage and disappointment.
But to be honest, I think that if you explode like that, it shows you failed.
It does, but it also shows this extraordinarily burning passion he has inside of him, which, like McEnroe, I don't think McEnroe can help himself.
This is what some people do.
I just don't buy that tool.
It's terrible.
It's like people who beat their spouses.
It's because just all this passion that I had for you.
No, get a grip.
We don't do that.
He's only beating a tennis racket.
He's not beating a human being.
I know, but you know, you shouldn't display your anger by doing violent acts.
We've evolved past this, I think.
But it's entertaining and by talking about it.
I think it's brand new.
It's undignified.
I wouldn't do it.
I think he's doing it.
I think he does it deliberately.
Yeah, I think it's branding.
I think in 20 years.
Should we smash up this table for branding?
Passionate Opinions on Veterans 00:08:27
Well, I don't want that to be my brand.
The bad girl of Piers Morgan.
It's when he picks up the second ranking that smashes that one.
I mean, that is, it's pathetic.
If you're watching, Mr. Curious, I think you do watch the show.
Just grow up, you big baby.
Jeremy, I want to talk to you quickly.
I'm not going to labour this, but BBC impartiality.
Do you talk about the BBC?
Yes.
On your programme?
Yes, I do actually, because I'm very curious.
Where's the line for you with partiality?
Emily Maitlis has raised a lot of questions about it.
Gary Denica, there was in the news again this week.
What do you think?
As a long-time BBC timer.
Gary's in a slightly different category.
He doesn't work for news.
And that's the argument that he's able to have a bit more freedom to make these quite opinionated.
Do you accept that?
Or does it make life different?
I accept because it's the rules.
I follow the rules, mate.
I mean, I do.
And the director general, my boss, said in that committee the other day at Parliament that I think it was a work in progress.
I don't know what he means by that.
Maybe he's going to have a chat with him.
But, I mean, clearly it's controversial for some people.
On the whole business of impartiality, journalism is about truth.
It's about getting to the truth and it's about how you get to it.
Now, this is a very opinionated programme.
You see, it's written, you know, it's a Ron Seal title.
Yes.
You get what you can see on the tin.
You get what you can see on the tin with the BBC as well, which is not my opinions.
It's not about me.
It's not about...
Yes, it's my analysis and my observation, and I use my own eyes and my ears.
And I might even, in the right context, talk about something that happened to me if it illuminates the wider issue.
And in the course of that, what impartiality means in my head, and I think in the BBCs as well, is that we've all got views.
I mean, my God, as I get older, my views get stronger.
I've had lunch with you.
You make me look like a shrinking violet, but you don't do it on camera.
Well, no, not high.
Maybe if they paid me what you pay you, Piers, I don't know.
But the thing is, is that I think that at the BBC, it's quite clear, whatever your views are, you stick them in a box on the door, you pick them up on the way out.
When you saw Emily Maitlis' thing on news tonight, which causes the problem about Dominic Cummings, did you feel it?
Soliloquy.
Did you feel it crossed a line?
Yeah, I did, actually.
I think that it wouldn't have taken a great deal for it to stay on the right side of the line.
Because, you know, you cannot say this, we all think that, effectively, is what she was saying.
Because actually, probably some people didn't think that.
I think if she'd written it a little bit more cleverly, if she'd said, everybody's talking about this, this is what people are saying.
I mean, some of you out there may disagree, but the country's up in arms about Dominic Common.
I think a lot of people were.
But it was the way she said it and in the context that she said it, and in the top of doing a kind of soliloquy at the top of a big-time BBC News program was not considered appropriate.
And I think it was appropriate for the bosses to have a word with her after that.
Interesting.
She didn't like it, clearly, and now she's got another job.
Well, I was going to ask him, there's been a lot of people leaving the BBC, you know, from Emily to Andrew Neill to Andrew Maher, all these people.
Lots of people you haven't heard of who have taken redundancy and various things.
Is there any check that could tempt you to unleash yourself as an opinionated monster?
I'm a BBC man through and through.
You know that.
I think you are.
I think you are, aren't you?
I am, I am.
And, you know, if someone came in and made me a life-changing offer, who knows, I'd consider it.
But actually, at the moment, it's been nearly 40 years.
So, you know, I only know one way to work.
And you know the most disgraceful thing I discovered today about you?
What's that?
You don't have any honor.
Nothing.
Not even an MBE.
How can that be?
I don't make this.
One of the greatest correspondents in BBC history.
Not even an MB.
MB is pretty good.
Yeah, but you walk around your newsroom and you see all these people with honours.
They don't wear them at the office or anything.
I mean, that would get you.
I went to a state dinner once and I saw some dippers for the King of Jordan at the Guild Hall.
Stop name dropping.
You know, I hate name dropping.
No, you'd never do it.
And suddenly all of these people who I'd known diplomats at the Foreign Office were just dripping with medals and things on sashes around their necks.
Would you like something?
The recognition of your work?
I'm quite happy as I am.
Did I launch a campaign on social media?
Go ahead.
You never see it on hands.
We're going to take a short break, come back with more from our pack.
We'll talk about militant veganism because you don't like milk, I just discovered, which is a bizarre revelation.
I've seen you scoffing cheese.
It's like it's gone out of fashion.
So we'll discuss that.
Also talk about Donald Trump and democracy because I think those are big issues.
And Jeremy's great book, The Modern Middle East, a personal history.
No one knows more about it than he does.
We'll talk about that after break.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Sensor.
Still with me, a talk to you contributor Esther Kraku, broadcaster and journalist Jenny Kleeman, and BBC veteran, veteran, BBC veteran.
Do you mind being called a veteran?
It's been nearly 40 years.
You're a veteran.
BBC veteran Jeremy Bowen.
Let's talk politics for a moment.
Esther the cabinet.
I've got to say, it's been a lot of speculation about, you know, what colour they all are, where they were educated, you know, blah, blah, blah.
I don't care.
All I care is, are they any good?
Can they do their job?
Because I don't think the public are looking at them going, oh, look, there's no white people in the main audience.
Who cares?
Yeah, what makes a difference?
And I think at this time where people are really kind of in the thick of it and really facing hard choices, we don't actually, we shouldn't care what they look like.
I think it's nice, you know, they're diverse, whoop, whoop, you know, but I think it's more about looking at their competence as opposed to the colour of their skin.
Someone like Chris Kwatang has a fantastic CV.
I've told people, you know, you couldn't actually find a more qualified man to be Chancellor, but everyone's saying, oh, but he's not real diversity because he may be black, but he doesn't think the right things.
We are facing a cost of living crisis.
I'll judge them on what they do.
I've got to be honest.
Let's judge them on what they do.
Jenny, I mean, the big issue is energy.
We're going to hear tomorrow, we think, from Liz Truss about what this big £100 billion plan is.
We think it's going to be a cap of £2,500 a person.
The problem is, she's also pledged to cut taxes.
And I've been talking about this all week.
Nobody I've read who I think is smart in the world of economics thinks you can possibly, in the current situation, cut taxation when you're going to be borrowing so much and not have inflation roaring even higher.
Well, she's got this kind of Boris booster-ish, it'll all be fine thing about her.
She is the heir apparently.
You've now learned from three years of Boris is not a problem.
She thinks that you can do it through borrowing.
She's found one or two economists who back her up.
She's surrounded herself with people who are loyal and she's not picking people necessarily, I would say, on their talent.
She is picking people according to how biddable they are and how loyal they are to her and how willing they are to sing from the same hymn sheet.
And we'll see how that gets on.
It's quite funny.
Jacob Reese Mogg, who is the new business secretary, said in January that he believed that any new leader should go call a general election in order to be.
Suicidal.
He's not saying that now that he's business secretary.
You know, these people, they don't really have principles very much.
They're just people who are going to have Liz's back.
Well, Jeremy, I mean, look, unprincipled politicians are nothing new.
I think what's new though in the modern era, certainly the last few years, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, you look around other countries around the world, the sort of rise of these sort of celebrity leaders.
What's your take on that?
Well, in electoral terms, it's magnetic for a lot of people.
They've had a lot of success.
It's partly, I think, a function of the way that the world is now, the way that the celebrity culture has morphed into politics as well, and it feeds off people's big images.
I think politicians, there were always big figures in politics who people still talk about, but if you bolt on all the other stuff that comes with being famous these days, then they become much, much larger.
In America, Trump obviously planning a comeback, will probably run again.
Nuclear Threats and Dictators Return 00:06:31
A poll came out, Quinnipiac poll this week.
Two-thirds of Americans believe democracy is dying.
I found that a terrifying statistic.
Well, I think it's, you know, it's the great democracy of the world.
And I know it is what's happening in America in terms of social division, the culture wars, the way that there are, well, they may, whoever's in the White House might try and get one message out from the federal government, there are lots and lots of different messages come out from different states, vastly different regulations that they're bringing in.
You know, in some states taking action against companies for being too green.
In California, saying that after 2035, you can't sell petrol cars.
You know, so it's a very disunited states of America.
And the thing about America was that they managed to meld together all these forces.
It was the great melting pot.
President Biden a few days ago said this.
Not every Republican, not even the majority of Republicans are MAGA Republicans.
Not every Republican embraces their extreme ideology.
But there's no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans.
And that is a threat to this country.
Now, Esther, my problem with that is that when he says MAGA Republicans, 70 million people voted for Donald Trump.
Second time round.
10 million more than voted for him first time around.
It may even be more, actually.
This is a bit like Hillary Clinton called them a basket of deplorables.
Is that the moment you start labeling everyone who voted for Donald Trump a lunatic or a madman or whatever Biden wants to call them, you alienate half the country?
But that's the problem.
And I think to say that MAGA Republicans don't make up that much of the Republican Party, that's a complete lie.
Trump's endorsement hit rate is like 90% now.
If he endorses you, there's a 90% chance you're going to get elected.
He's an incredibly powerful figure in the party because there are loads of people that are still flocking to him.
And this is just deepening the divisions in the party on the country as a whole.
I mean, Jenny, should he even be allowed to run when we've now discovered that in this FBI raid, some of these highly sensitive top secret documents included apparently details of a foreign powers' nuclear capability and it was just sitting there at Mur-a-Lago.
It is terrifying.
And this is not just an issue for America's national security.
It's potentially an issue for ours because we don't know which country's nuclear codes or nuclear plans were in there.
So it's really serious.
In terms of whether or not he should be allowed to run, I mean, I don't know what the rules are about what makes you ineligible.
I think people should not vote for him because as much as you say calling MAGA American, MAGA Republicans, labeling them in the same way as baskets, the basket of deplorables, these are, I think Donald Trump, ever since he lost to the election, has become far more extreme.
And his whole thing is...
Well, he's just, look, I know Trump very well, he's a sore loser.
He's a sore loser.
He's become more extreme.
But the problem is, when you're a sore loser, when you've lost an election, what you're basically saying is, I refuse to accept democracy.
That's why you see this poll of Americans saying we think democracy is dying, because they see the guy who just lost the presidency still saying I didn't lose it.
And they see the raid on Mar-a-Lago as fitting perfectly into this narrative.
Trump just has to say the whole thing's a fit up in front of me.
Jeremy, your book, The Modern Middle East, fascinating book.
I mean, everyone who wants to know about the Middle East should go and read this.
You've been pretty much everywhere in the Middle East.
You've been shot at, stabbed, chased, harried, everything.
You know, you've been at the sharp end of it.
I want to start with Ukraine, because Ukraine is an appalling war.
On the face of it, it's a ruthless dictator invading a sovereign democratic country.
When I was in Ukraine, and I'm not trying to compare our war correspondent credentials, given I spent three days as one, but it was fascinating to me that there were some Ukrainians who said that they felt that Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine, like the Crimea, perhaps even the Donbass, actually a lot of people there wanted to go back to being part of Russia.
Does that make it more complicated or not?
It is complicated, and it's not a simple story.
And Zelensky himself was not that popular before the invasion.
He had 30% approval ratings back in December.
And then he brought the country together with those extraordinary broadcasts that he was doing on a nightly basis, walking around Kiev with his bodyguards and recording things and putting them online.
No, I've spent quite a bit of time in the East, in Donbass, this region where there's been an awful lot of fighting.
And I spoke to people there who had no time for Zelensky particularly, who wanted it all to be over.
I had found others who weren't sad about the Russians coming in.
But then there were plenty of others.
It's a bit of a false distinction to say that just because Ukrainians are native Russian speakers, they might automatically feel that they are closer to Russia.
Zelensky's first language is Russian.
And so it's like, you know, think about the Irish.
You know, they speak English, but there aren't all that many Irish who want to be part of Britain.
Do you fear that we are nearer a nuclear conflict than we've ever been?
Yes, well, probably since the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was when I was a small baby, yeah, I think we do.
Ever since the very start of all this, Putin has been using nuclear rhetoric.
He hasn't done anything, but I think his rhetoric almost normalizes the presence of that threat.
I mean, those of us, you know, those of us who can remember 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 can remember growing up.
I mean, I grew up in the Cold War and always in the background, there was this sense that if things did go wrong internationally, we might all end up as radioactive dust.
And sadly, I feel that's come back.
And that's one of the really dangerous things about this crisis, the fact that Russia, which actually has more nuclear warheads than the US, is talking about using them.
Of course, it could just be threats.
It could just be talk.
But when someone who has an arsenal of, what, 6,000 plus warheads starts talking like that, well, you've got to take it seriously.
When you talk about the Middle East with such authority, I want to take you back to the start of the Arab Spring and ask a difficult question.
Teachers Need Control Over Gangs 00:15:25
Would the world be better off if we hadn't gone on a domino removing process of all the dictators in the Middle East?
Would they have kept the lid on things better than what's happened since?
Well, the dictators pretty much are back, sometimes different faces.
And of course, Assad himself never left.
And actually, the force to remove those people who did go, and that was the ruler of Tunisia and then the president of Egypt, and then it went on from there, that came very much from the streets.
It really did, because there's a large population of mostly young people, 60% under the age of 30, who are just fed up with these countries run by autocrats, corrupt.
The whole process of governance was completely different.
Should we, as we did in Iraq, should we be trying to instill our democratic values into Middle Eastern countries?
No, democracy grows from within a country.
We weren't given it by people here in the UK or in Western Europe.
We did it for ourselves.
I think we can do things to help.
I think, for example, we can help with the building of institutions.
That's a really important part of it.
To have a democracy, you need courts that are pretty honest, reasonably honest, so they can enforce contracts.
It's not just about voting.
It's about the legal system.
It's about the respect for the rule of law.
All of those things.
That's what democracy is built on.
And it's wrong to think that just because it's the Middle East, people don't want democracy.
I think a lot of people would like to have it.
But now, quite a lot of people, when confronted, Egypt's a good example, when confronted by this tsunami of what seemed like change, actually were quite relieved when the military came back in, the strongman, Cece, who's there now, who's the worst dictator, Mubarak Edward.
Yes, exactly.
It's a fantastic book.
The making of the modern Middle East, a personal history.
Really cannot recommend it highly enough.
Final question for the three of you.
I'm going to interview a vegan militant who's been throwing paint all over Big Ben and Parliament and Zon today.
Are any of you vegans?
No.
Vegetarians?
No.
So we're all meat eaters.
Would someone chucking paint at Big Ben, just when we've repaired the damn thing, make you give up meat?
No, absolutely not.
It's made us talk about it now, though.
You've got it on your show.
It's a win, Pierre.
You're dairy intolerant, are you?
Yeah, I'm not dairy intolerant.
I just don't like milk.
Right.
Milky stuff.
Loppy crooked.
But you want to ban people from having it?
No, if they want to eat it, that's my point.
You want to eat your vegan gruel, eat your vegan gruel.
Let me eat my meat.
And you chucking paint at Big Ben, isn't going to make me eat gruel.
It's not.
We'll have that debate in a moment with one of the protesters who thought it was a great way to persuade me.
That'll be coming up later.
And coming up next, as a Missouri school reintroduces the practice of paddling seen here in a school in Florida, tough and up disciplined.
Should British schools follow suit?
Are our schools, frankly, going too soft?
Scoring a generation who just don't respect the rules?
Or is this actually modern day torture?
We'll debate that after the break.
Thank you to my brilliant pack.
Jeremy, Jenny, Esther, touch a class, wasn't it?
Today with old Boeing.
I'd love you to be here.
Great to see you.
We'll come back again.
You can be uncensored here, mate.
You can say what you like.
See you after the break.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Censor.
Crime Rising, youth gang culture on the up.
Is the only way to get back control of our streets and our schools to get tougher on kids?
A school district in the US state of Missouri has decided to reinstate corporal punishment in its classrooms, allowing students to be punished with a paddle like this under a new policy.
Well, this video of a five-year-old, six-year-old girl, I'm sorry, at an elementary school in Florida shows what can happen.
The girl's mother gave permission for this to happen, according to an official report.
But is bringing back this form of corporal punishment at schools the best way to root out the problem of rising crime and disrespect?
Well, head teacher Serge Sefai and former gang member and now government advisor Gwenton Slowly join me now.
Welcome to both of you.
Gwenton, you grew up in Jamaica where there was a lot of corporal punishment.
And then you came here where there hasn't been for a long time, certainly not in schools in any authorized way.
What's your view about this?
I think if we look at historical records and see with the rise in gang crime to the point now where we're at 3.4 million for each murder and track back where a lot of this started is from young people being excluded from school and teachers feeling as if they've got no control of the school, much less the classroom.
If that could be prevented, a lot of people would have made it through to college and then to university and had higher prospects of actually gaining a job or something.
People will feel looking at this paddle, you can't possibly use this on kids.
It does look scary.
And as I said, if you've not come from somewhere where you've actually gone through that system, it actually looks scary.
It looks like a mini cricket bat looking at that.
But one thing that we have to put in there is that in America, they've actually asked the parents' permission for this.
So it's not just as if the schools implemented it.
Right, the parents have to give the permission.
Have to give consent.
So Serge, I mean, that's the point of this is quite interesting.
Parents want their kids to be disciplined like this.
Does that change the dial for you?
Well, first and foremost, there's no argument, hopefully, anymore.
We've got to get tougher with kids.
However, this ship has sailed.
Our parents aren't allowed to hit kids anymore here.
So the idea of using an implement, you will not find a teacher who will carry out that sort of punishment when parents can be taken to court for hitting their own kids.
What we've got to get tougher on is adults that have long since abdicated their responsibility of bringing up kids.
And I've got a whole list there.
Let's start with absent parents.
No one wants to talk about it anymore, but you've just had everyone seen it.
Advert after advert from the media, finding a single parent mum with three or four kids, and no one wants to ask, okay, well, excuse bereavement, but where's the other parent here?
And of course, I've been teaching 42 years in inner city areas.
And time and time again, people are struggling with their kids, but they're struggling on their own.
Why do we accept the fact that people can have children yet not take on board the responsibility of bringing them up properly?
What do you say to that?
I agree with you in some sense to that, because for what I do in a day-to-day, I look after people and witness protection when I'm not running elections.
But there are a lot of parents struggling by themselves.
And when you look at the murder rate, a lot of these young people are coming from broken homes.
But to say that, I came from a home where I was a middle-class young person and I was still caught up because of the environment.
I had a tutor and everything else.
So it's not everyone.
Sometimes the excitement out there or the environment that you have to go to school forces you to either become a victim or learn to.
It's a part of the problem.
But we know this.
But I wouldn't even stop there.
Single parents is one thing.
Let's talk about, you've talked about exclusion rates.
I know as a head teacher and teachers, we're held to account for everything.
You know, exam results, exclusion rates, you name it.
Yet, I've excluded kids in my time, not regretted a single one, tried not to, but I'm telling you now, happy to say it, any child that walks into my school with a knife is not walking back in my school again.
But have we gone too soft on kids in school?
Yes, and let me talk about the fact there's kids being excluded.
Okay, I can tell you now there's very few that haven't had social services involvement for donkeys years.
We've been paying that money.
That's been invested.
No good.
I want to know, and I've asked this question of my local authority for donkeys years, you know, the youth offending team, what are the re-offending statistics on that?
I know I'm accountable, and I'm afraid the message that adults, now go back to adults, us abdicating our responsibilities, we're not bringing up children properly.
We're not telling them they have to take responsibility for their actions.
See, I do think this is right.
I think the disagreement is you think corporal punishment can solve this.
You were in a gang.
I mean, would it have any impact?
If your kids are excluded from school, if you bring them back and use corporal punishment, do they not just see that as basic extension of being in a gang?
As I said, it's about being tougher about giving support.
I've just run for the mayor of Hackney, which is unheard of.
And if you look at their stats of that, how many people would have come from where I've come from to be doing what I'm doing?
So we need to show that there is another way.
When you talk to young kids, young black kids in particular, a lot of the knife crime is endemic amongst young black kids in London, right?
When you see them and you talk to them, how do you try and persuade them this is not the way to go?
You have to be an example yourself.
And one thing, you can't be a broken man talking to a young person that's making £4,000 off a county line.
If a young person's out there making more money than you, you then are struggling to tell them to go and work in Tesco's or somewhere else.
Yeah, but this is where, I mean, I run two schools, 2,000 kids, Camberwell and Peckham.
You should see those kids.
Brilliant kids.
They know their place in terms of they're here to teach.
Teachers are in charge.
We have rules and regulations.
And when they break them, there's no fanning around in terms of we make it damn clear.
You would agree with us.
We make it damn clear.
That is wrong.
You're going to get punished.
Take responsibility for it.
And we hope.
But I know, and I've already alluded to it, we have a whole bunch of professionals, you name it, all around the place.
It's youth justice system.
There's broken Britain for you, telling these kids who everyone knows.
I've got all sorts of examples when I know the kids have admitted and have actually been sorry for doing things wrong.
They've got their lawyers saying, no comment.
The parents are on board with it.
I'll get you off on a technicality.
And then we're surprised when they reach 18, we chuck them in prison.
We did a poll actually on social media earlier asking about whether we should bring back physical punishment in schools to try and deal with this.
56% said yes.
44% said no.
It's an interesting result.
Final word do you want to?
Well, you have to look at that, Pierce, is a lot of parents are also struggling.
So when their children come home from terrorising the teachers, they then terrorise their parents.
Of course.
So a lot of parents are there crying out for help.
Yeah, well, they get it in a good school.
They get it in a good school if they come and ask for it because there's no one terrorizing teachers in my schools and in a lot of good schools.
It can be done without the paddle.
Chaps, I've got to leave it there.
Really good debate.
Thank you both very much.
I appreciate it.
Well, coming next, Animal Rebellion paint parliament white as vegan activists spray the gates to Big Ben with paint and a protest against milk.
Is this really the best way to make a point to the new Prime Minister?
I'll go toe to toe after the break with one of these militant vegans who's demanding, well, people like me should give up meat and just eat gruel for the rest of our natural lives.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Census.
Crime rising, youth gang culture on the up.
Is the only way to get back control of our streets and our schools to get tougher on kids?
A school district in the US state of Missouri has decided to reinstate corporal punishment in its classrooms, allowing students to be punished with a paddle like this under a new policy.
Well this video of a five-year-old, six-year-old girl, I'm sorry, at an elementary school in Florida shows what can happen.
The girl's mother gave permission for this to happen according to an official report.
But is bringing back this form of corporal punishment at schools the best way to root out the problem of rising crime and disrespect?
Well head teacher Serge Sefai and former gang member and now government advisor Gwenton Slowly join me now.
Welcome to both of you.
Gwenton, you grew up in Jamaica where there was a lot of corporal punishment.
And then you came here where there hasn't been for a long time, certainly not in schools in any authorized way.
What's your view about this?
I think if we look at historical records and see with the rise in gang crime to the point now where we're at 3.4 million for each murder and track back where a lot of this started is from young people being excluded from school and teachers feeling as if they've got no control of the school, much less the classroom.
If that could be prevented, a lot of people would have made it through to college and then to university and had higher prospects of actually gaining a job or something.
People will feel looking at this paddle, you can't possibly use this on kids.
It does look scary and as I said if you've not come from somewhere where you've actually gone through that system it actually looks scary.
It looks like a mini cricket bat looking at that.
But one thing that we have to put in there is that in America they've actually asked the parents permission for this.
So it's not just as if the schools implemented it.
Right, the parents have to give the permission.
Have to give consent.
Serge, I mean that's the point of this is quite interesting.
Parents want their kids to be disciplined like this.
Does that change the dial for you?
Well first and foremost there's no argument hopefully anymore.
We've got to get tougher with kids.
However this ship has sailed.
Our parents aren't allowed to hit kids anymore here.
So the idea of using an implement, you will not find a teacher who will carry out that sort of punishment when parents can be taken to court for eating their own kids.
What we've got to get tougher on is adults that have long since abdicated their responsibility of bringing up kids.
And I've got a whole list there.
Let's start with absent parents.
You know, no one wants to talk about it anymore, but you've just had everyone seen it.
Advert after advert from the media, finding a single parent mum with three or four kids, and no one wants to ask, okay, well, excuse bereavement, well, where's the other parent here?
And of course, I've been teaching 42 years in inner-city areas, and time and time again, people are struggling with their kids, but they're struggling on their own.
Why do we accept the fact that people can have children yet not take on board the responsibility of bringing them up properly?
What do you say to that?
I agree with you in some sense to that because for what I do in a day-to-day, I look after people on witness protection when I'm not running elections.
But there are a lot of parents struggling by themselves.
And when you look at the murder rate, a lot of these young people are coming from broken homes.
But to say that, I came from a home where I was a middle-class young person and I was still caught up because of the environment.
I had a tutor and everything else.
So it's not everyone.
Sometimes the excitement out there or the environment that you have to go to school forces you to either become a victim or learn to think about.
It's a part of the problem.
Broken Britain Parental Responsibility 00:03:59
But we know this.
But I wouldn't even stop there.
Single parents is one thing.
Let's talk about, you've talked about exclusion rates.
I know as a head teacher and teachers, we're held to account for everything.
You know, exam results, exclusion rates, you name it.
Yet, I've excluded kids in my time, not regretted a single one, tried not to, but I'm telling you now, happy to say it, any child that walks into my school with a knife is not walking back in my school again.
But have we gone too soft on school?
Yes, and let me talk about the fact there's kids being excluded.
Okay, I can tell you now there's very few that haven't had social services involvement for donkeys years.
We've been paying that money.
That's been invested.
No good.
I want to know, and I've asked this question of my local authority for donkeys years, you know, the youth offending team, what are the re-offending statistics on that?
I know I'm accountable, and I'm afraid the message that adults, now go back to adults, us abdicating our responsibilities, we're not bringing up children properly.
We're not telling them they have to take responsibility for their actions.
See, I do think this is right.
I think the disagreement is you think corporal punishment can solve this.
You were in a gang.
I mean, would it have any impact if your kids are excluded from school if you bring them back and use corporal punishment?
Do they not just see that as basic extension of being in a gang?
As I said, it's about being tougher about giving support.
I've just run for the mayor of Hackney, which is unheard of.
And if you look at their stats of that, how many people would have come from where I've come from to be doing what I'm doing?
So we need to show that there is another way.
When you talk to young kids, young black kids in particular, a lot of the knife crime is endemic amongst young black kids in London, right?
When you see them and you talk to them, how do you try and persuade them this is not the way to go?
You have to be an example yourself.
And one thing, you can't be a broken man talking to a young person that's making £4,000 off a county line.
If a young person's out there making more money than you, you then are struggling to tell them to go and work in Tesco's or somewhere else.
Yeah, but this is where, I mean, I run two schools, 2,000 kids, Camberwell and Peckham.
You should see those kids.
Brilliant kids.
They know their place in terms of they're here to teach.
Teachers are in charge.
We have rules and regulations.
And when they break them, there's no fanning around in terms of we make it damn clear.
You would agree with that, right?
We make it damn clear.
That is wrong.
You're going to get punished.
Take responsibility for it.
And we hope.
But I know, and I've already alluded to it, we have a whole bunch of professionals, you name it, all around the place.
It's youth justice system.
There's broken Britain for you, telling these kids who everyone knows.
I've got all sorts of examples when I know the kids have admitted and I've actually been sorry for doing things wrong.
They've got their lawyers saying, no comment.
The parents are on board with it.
I'll get you off on a technicality.
And then we're surprised when they reach 18, we chuck them in prison.
We did a poll actually on social media earlier asking about whether we should bring back physical punishment in schools to try and deal with this.
56% said yes.
44% said no.
It's an interesting result.
Final word to you.
Well, you have to look at that, Piers, is a lot of parents are also struggling.
So when their children come home from terrorising the teachers, they then terrorise their parents.
Of course.
So a lot of parents are there crying out for help.
Yeah, well, they get it in a good school.
They get it in a good school if they come and ask for it, because there's no one terrorising teachers in my schools and in a lot of good schools.
It can be done without the paddle.
Chaps, I've got to leave it there.
Really good debate.
Thank you both very much.
I appreciate it.
Well, coming next, Animal Rebellion paint parliament white as vegan activists spray the gates to Big Ben with paint and a protest against milk.
Is this really the best way to make a point to the new Prime Minister?
I'll go toe to toe after the break with one of these militant vegans who's demanding, well, people like me should give up meat and just eat gruel for the rest of our natural
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