Sex at Dawn Author Chris Ryan | This Past Weekend #100
Sitting down with psychologist and author Chris Ryan to talk his best selling book Sex at Dawn, our mutual friend Simon Rex, and hitchhiking. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Ryan Sex at Dawn https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships/dp/1491512407 Instagram www.instagram.com/thatchrisryan Twitter www.instagram.com/thatchrisryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Support Our Sponsors Timesuck Podcast with Dan Cummings https://timesuckpodcast.com/ Ridge Wallet https://www.ridgewallet.com/theo Use code “theo” for 10% off your order Greyblock Pizza https://www.greyblockpizza.com http://bit.ly/Modrats ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Music Shine by Bishop Gunn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A_coTcUek ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man Up - Comedy Central Pilot based off the Podcast Episode 1 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F2AuyEbCI0 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ComedyCentral/videos/540480146346331/ Episode 2 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGwxlvzpFdI Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ComedyCentralCentral/videos/539377409789938/ Episode 3 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTxLcmKlA4Q& Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ComedyCentralCentral/videos/539380113123001/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Theo Von/This Past Weekend Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theovon Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theovon/ https://www.instagram.com/thispastweekend_/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheoVon Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theo.von Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoVon/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MindGunters Patreon Gunt Squad: Alaskan Rock Vodka Angelo Raygun Renee Nicol Matthew Snow Megan Andersen-Hall Stephanie Claire Ryan Wolfe Carla Huffman Austin Kehler Jeremy West Kenton call Steve Corlew Nick Butcher Megan Daily Joe Tromm Ken Melvin Troy Cosmas Matt Kaman Tom Kostya Mike Vo Micky Maddux Sam Illgen Ben Liimes Alexis Caniglia Stepfan Jefferies David Smith Logan Yakemchuk Aidan Duffy MEDICATED VETERAN Ken Comstock Dan Ray Audrey Harlan Matthew Popov kristen rogers Josh Cowger Kelly Elliott Mark Glassy Dwehji Majd Jason Haley Jameson Flood Jason Bragg Cory Alvarez Christopher Christensen Scott Lucy Benv Deignan Cody Cummings Shannon Schulte Aaron Stein Lorell “Loretta†Ray Stacy Blessing Andy Mac Campbell Hile John Kutch Adriana Hernandez Jeffrey Lusero Alex Hitchins Joe Dunn Kennedy Joey Piemonte Robyn Tatu Beau Adams Yoga Shawn-Leigh henry Laura Williams Alex Person Mona McCune Suzanne O'Reilly Rashelle Raymond Chad Saltzman James Bown Brian Szilagyi Arielle Nicole Greg H Dave Engelman Calvin Doyle Jacob Ortega Jesse Witham Andrea Gagliani Scott Swain William Morris Qie Jenkins Aaron Jones Jon Ross Kevin Best Haley Brown Ned Arick J Garcia Lauren Cribb Ty Oliver Tom in Rural NC Christian from Bakersfield Matt Holland Charley Dunham Casey RobertsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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I want to thank everybody today.
This is our 100th episode.
And so I'm going to get into it more on the Monday episode, but thank you so much.
This is absolutely crazy.
I don't really know anything that's 100.
You know, I think my grandparents, the oldest one of my grandparents was, I think, 90. And I think I petted a turtle once, actually recently in Maui.
And it was, somebody said it might have been 100 or something.
But you weren't supposed to pet it also because they said it's $5,000 if they see you touching it.
So it's pretty much only the rich people, I guess, really get to pet it because the government charges you that.
And anyhow, happy 100th episode.
Thank you guys so much for being supportive for this long.
Also, I want to let you know that I once stood shirtless with Dan the Man Cummins overlooking the African Serengeti.
And I asked him a question about something or other, and we talked for about an hour.
You know, he talked about something because that man can really just ramble.
I mean, he's like just going down a beautiful just wormhole into whateverness.
And that's who Dan is.
And after the conversation, I was fulfilled to the max by whatever Dan said to me because he knows a lot about things you really probably don't even know if you want to know about or not.
And he has a podcast.
It's called Time Suck.
And it takes you on a weekly delve through thoroughly exploring and explaining a single listener-suggested topic.
And if you don't want to go down a wormhole yourself, let somebody else do it.
Find a topic you like.
Each Monday, he has new episodes.
It's irreverent and it's entertaining, and that's Dan Cummins.
The man finds layers, everything from menthol cigarettes, bees with autism, historical events, loch nest mice, mimes, where are they now?
Paranormal encounters and conspiracy theories.
Time suck.
Every Monday, the link will be below.
This is episode 100, and we're happy to have a man who, you know, who wrote a book recently called Sex at Dawn that I listened to, slash read with my ears.
He has a new podcast as well called Tangentially Speaking.
He is a psychologist.
He's an author as well.
Chris Ryan.
Yeah, you don't.
Are you going to attack me at some point?
Is this when things don't go well?
I mean, I just...
I mean, if it doesn't go well, maybe.
Yeah.
Someone mailed that in, actually.
I wonder if it's the same guy who sent me one.
Reeves Blades.
Is he in Texas?
I feel like everybody who makes a knife is in Texas.
Yeah, a guy sent me a handmade blade.
The blade itself was made from the leaves of a suspension on a car.
Oh, a different guy.
Our guy said it was from the bones of his grandparents.
That's the handle.
I think, yeah.
So different guy.
But yeah, actually, the blade could be.
We're here with Chris Ryan.
How are you today?
I'm good.
I'm good.
I'm shocked, though.
I didn't know I was coming to a studio and this whole professional scene.
Oh, right on.
I thought I was going to go sit in your dirty kitchen and you'd have Mike set up on a table next to last night's dinner.
Oh, man.
That's how podcasts normally are.
Yeah, that's true.
I guess, yeah, and we're still, I think, like that in our hearts.
I think we just tried to, you know, show up a little bit more in the atmosphere.
Yeah.
You know, I'm a little stunned by the lights.
I actually, I've ended up, I've read Sex at Dawn.
I masturbated, not to the book.
It's been a big day for you.
But last night, right?
Here was something that happened to me last night.
And this is something that happens to me a lot.
It's good.
I was hoping we'd talk about masturbation.
Did you really?
Yeah.
I always talk about it.
Okay.
And I saw you on Rogan with your hat conversation.
Yes.
And I was like, oh, good.
There's a guy I can talk about jerking off with.
Yeah.
So good.
Let's get right into it.
And so here's what happens for me sometimes if I'm jerking off, right?
Because I know you're a psychologist.
And a jerk-off.
Yeah.
Call me doctor.
Perfect.
So what happened to me was like, I try for me, I try not to masturbate right now because I feel like for me, I've become addicted to pornography and using masturbation as an escape.
From what?
I don't know.
Probably from having like some real feelings about things or like if I if I start to feel something sometimes I'll just go to masturbation, you know, or I'll go to watching pornography to kind of check out from whatever maybe might be possibly making me have some other feelings that I don't want to experience.
So I was done working in my kitchen and everything.
I was like, I'm not going to masturbate.
Thank God.
Made it through the day without masturbating or without watching pornography.
So I shut down my computer, walked to the bathroom, and then I was urinating.
And then I had some thought about, what was it?
What a great dick I have in my hand right now.
Got this great dick in my hand.
Yeah, no, it could have been that.
I got this decent dick, you know?
I have a short neck.
My whole, you know, I come from a long line of short neck people.
Oh, do you?
So my dick is that sort of, you know, it's squat.
It doesn't have the longest neck, but it shows up, you know?
But no, but then I ended up.
But it's more important than laying.
Is it really?
Yeah.
Well, thank you for because my dick can hear that.
Yeah.
But then, so next thing you know, I masturbated and I was done.
And then it was like, and then I felt bad.
Masturbated into the toilet?
No.
That would be, what's that called when you go from urination directly into masturbation without leaving the toilet?
Being in a hurry.
Yeah.
Yeah, late for work.
Late for work.
So next thing you know, next thing you know, I had literally masturbated and then I felt bad.
And that's kind of where I was.
And so I just thought, man, I just feel bad about, I felt like some sense of a negative feeling.
And then I was like, well, maybe I'll just, I'll talk to Chris about this tomorrow.
Just ask him about it.
Ah, okay.
All right.
So, we're doing therapy.
No, you don't have to have any thoughts.
Oh, I have lots of thoughts.
But I want to know, like, I guess I don't like the fact that I feel bad about it, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, the first thing I would, I don't know how deeply you want to get into this, but were you raised in a religious tradition?
So do you have, do you feel any sort of negative thoughts when you have sex with a woman?
Or I don't know if you're straight.
I assume you're straight.
Yeah, I'm straight.
Yeah.
I mean, unless something happens later in life, you know, I could have late-onset homosexuality.
Could happen.
But yeah, I'm straight.
I'm just hanging out with muscular guys like Joe.
Rogan's strong, huh?
He's strong.
How strong is he going to get?
He can't get stronger.
He'll break his own skeleton.
He can't.
Come on.
It was true.
Have you seen photos of him when he was a young guy?
Yeah.
He's a good-looking dude.
Very handsome.
He looked more...
Yeah, exactly with the hair.
I saw a young clip that he posted recently of him doing stand-up, and it was like, wow, that's him.
Yeah.
And he wasn't like as beefy by far.
I mean, he was like a more sort of normal body.
Yeah, he could have been almost, he could have been like a Russian dancer or something, but one that, you know, kind of a lower key one.
That's him?
Yeah, that's him.
Wow.
Yeah, he's already into the muscle phase there.
Yeah.
Yeah, but he was more of a lean guy whenever he first started doing comedy.
But yeah, so then I just felt bad, man.
I didn't grow up with a strong religious thing.
I think for me, it's just I try, you know, the pornography has just gotten so strong that it's hard to fend it off sometimes.
And I'll go immediately from my imagination where it almost evolves into a scene I could see from porn.
And the next thing you know, I'm watching porn, if that makes any sense.
So do you watch porn for a long time or you just go in for five minutes and do your business?
I'm in and out.
I'm effective with the porn.
So what's the negative, what's the source of the negativity?
I don't know.
If it's not religious, there's something inherently ugly about coming or are you watching porn that you're ashamed of?
It's really nasty and is there something in the porn that you're not into?
What if there's no porn involved?
What if you just jerked off?
Would you still feel bad?
I think if I did it excessively, I would still feel bad.
What's excessively?
Like a couple times a week, I think.
Why?
Where do you come up with that number?
I don't know.
I think for some reason, I feel like it weakens me somehow.
Do you feel that physically or on an emotional, psychological level?
I guess I feel it a little bit physically, but then it really gets deeper into an emotional psychological level.
Yeah, that I just feel like it makes me less of a man or something sometimes.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I don't have any of those associations with it.
In fact, I'm very sort of wary of anything that makes me question messages that I get from my body.
So, for example, I don't like alarm clocks.
I like to wake up when I wake up.
I don't like, you know, when I started reading all the shit about how you have to drink eight glasses of water a day, I was immediately like, where's that coming from?
That's bullshit.
Who says that?
Yeah, a camel.
You drink when you're thirsty.
That's why you have the sense of thirst, right?
Eat when you're hungry.
Like every instruction that I get from society telling me to not trust the messages I'm getting from my body, I'm immediately, now I know some, in some cases, they're probably right, but 90% of the times, you know, that I've, I've lived long enough now to see that information be discredited again and again and again, like that water thing.
Yeah.
That comes from a study that was first put out years ago by Gatorade.
Right.
And it wasn't about drinking water.
It was about drinking the fucking Gatorade.
So it's bullshit.
There's no scientific basis whatsoever for saying you have to drink a certain number of glasses of water per day.
How much water is in the food you're eating?
How dry is the atmosphere you're in?
How much are you sweating?
If you're in Arizona or Maine, it's totally different.
Exactly.
And your physiology, right?
Like some people don't sweat.
Some people sweat a lot.
It's total bullshit.
So my feeling about masturbation is like, unless there's some, you know, you were alluding to earlier, like maybe there's something that's making you feel anxious.
And so you jerk off as a way to distract yourself from solving a problem or dealing with something in your life that's making you unhappy.
I'd say that could be an issue.
But to me, there's, it could be alcohol.
It could be collecting baseball cards.
It could be, you know, online shopping.
It could be chasing pussy.
It could be lots of different ways to distract yourself.
And masturbation actually is probably one of the least destructive of all of them.
You know, you're not pulling anyone else into your trip.
It's pretty quick and you can get back to your life.
It feels good.
I've never felt guilty about jerking off.
Wow.
And a few times a week?
Shit, dude.
At your age, a few times a day.
I was jerking off like morning, night, and lunch break if I could get it.
Wow.
Hell yeah.
How old are you?
30 something?
I'm 38. Dude, come on.
That shit's got to go somewhere.
Yeah, I guess I don't know.
No, this is like, yeah, I don't know why somewhere I guess I developed some negative.
You know what sometimes I think it is?
And I'm sorry, I'm not trying to push on you.
I know you do give therapy to people, and I wasn't like.
No, I don't care.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, I asked Joe Rogan about you the other day, and he said, man, that guy was just one of the best guys to talk to.
And I thought that that was, it made me feel a little bit more at ease just because I didn't want to seem, I don't know how I wanted to seem, but anyway, it made me feel very at ease.
I picked it up.
Like I said, I watched your thing and there was a moment.
I didn't watch the whole thing.
I think I watched, I don't Know half of it or something.
Who has time to watch podcasts?
I don't know.
Hey, out there.
You do, and we're glad.
But I was watching your thing, and there was a moment where there's something about sex came up, and I could see on your face that you were like, there's something that was bothering you.
You said, yeah, sex, I don't know, like people bump against each other till they come, and like, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, people, yeah, it doesn't, something about it, I think, doesn't, it seems primitive to me in a way where it doesn't seem novel, like new or novel or exciting enough to keep doing it so much.
Yeah.
And then sometimes I think you're making me think about this a second ago.
Like I feel like maybe I am afraid if I have sex, you know, with somebody that I care about that I'm going to like really care about them.
You know, like maybe there's something inside of me that there's like a fear that, you know, because I have an easier time having sex with someone that I don't care about than someone that I do.
And there's a huge disparity there for me.
And I feel like, you know, I don't know, maybe that's something that if I like there's a part of me, there's like a fear inside of me that I can't even access sometimes where if I have sex with somebody that I can't really love, you know, or something that I'm going to, I don't know, that it's going to backfire somehow.
I don't know.
But anyway, I'm not trying to be a freaking weirdo.
No, man, we're all dealing with that stuff.
There's nothing weird about it.
I relate to that.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know if you, if this is stuff you want to get into, but if you lost someone that you really were close to when you were young, that could easily create a fear.
You know, in my case, I moved a lot when I was a kid.
And so I lost friends like a couple of years.
And it was hard for me to really care about people later in life because I sort of had this built-in expectation that I was going to lose them.
And so the more I cared about them, the more it was going to hurt.
And so I, for a long time, and you could argue still in a way, sort of skimmed across the surface.
Like I don't have kids.
And I moved a lot physically in my adult life.
You know, I kept rolling.
And it was easier for me in a way because I didn't have those deep roots.
You know, people would be like, don't you miss home?
I'm like, home?
I don't have home.
You know, my friends are spread out all over the world.
There's no place I could point to and say, that's home.
I couldn't even tell you I grew up there.
I was there.
I went to three different high schools.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
So, you know, maybe that's happening with you.
Maybe there's part of you that's like, you know, you cared about someone and lost them and now it's scary to care about somebody else.
Yeah.
But that's good because what it means is that you're still connecting your sexuality with intimacy.
And I think a lot of people, especially a lot of men, partly because of porn and what's going on in that world, I think they've lost that connection.
And once you lose it, it's really hard to get it back.
I mean, you still have it and it's still really present for you.
So that's beautiful.
So once you meet the person or people or you develop in a way where you're comfortable being vulnerable that way, that road's still open for you.
And that's going to be beautiful for you.
Yeah, man.
Yeah.
I appreciate you thinking about some of these things.
Yeah, it's hard for me, man.
That shit is just so hard for me.
And it's almost like at a thing, it's like a thing I can't access, you know?
Like when you say like the, you know, the, I'm sure like moving around from place to place.
And then, you know, yeah, like who knows what persona you probably had to create to juggle being accepted immediately when you got into a place.
And like, you know, you probably had to become a good listener, you know?
Well, I didn't.
I mean, that happened much later.
The persona I developed when I was a kid was the fucking pedantic, I don't need anybody.
I'm smarter than everybody.
Fuck you guys.
Right?
Like, you know, yeah, I'm sitting at lunch alone.
I'm reading this book and, you know, I'm in my world.
I don't care.
I don't have friends.
I don't need friends.
I was that guy.
And then it wasn't really till I followed that persona right through college.
And then I hitchhiked to Alaska from New York.
I skipped a year of college and I decided to go to Alaska.
So I hitched from New York to Alaska and back.
Wow.
And I was in Alaska for two months or something in the summer.
And on that journey, my whole life changed.
Like I, it was actually this Memorial Day.
It was 35 years ago that I got to Fairbanks and I ate a Snickers bar in a grocery store without paying for it.
And I got busted and spent four days in prison.
Prison, not jail.
Right.
Because they didn't have jail.
So they put me in this prison waiting for over Memorial Day weekend.
But I met all these people who were fucking great, really cool people.
And like they built their own houses and they were really kind to me and took me home and fed me.
I bet that kindness probably really felt that, did that help kind of give you a perspective switch?
Yeah, their kindness, their acceptance, their generosity to me.
And I, you know, and these are people, now I was this pedantic, you know, I was going to go to Oxford and get a PhD and I was Mr. Save the World, yeah.
Well, not really save the world or rule the world or just be recognized as being really smart and teaching literature.
And I love the literature of adventure, like Melville and Joseph Conrad, all these guys are on whaling boats and going around the world.
That was the shit I loved.
And so that's why I wanted to do this adventure of my own, right?
And, but I met all these people who were so kind to me and I sort of said, okay, now I have stumbled into their world and they've accepted me and helped me and, you know, just incredible kindness.
If one of these people had stumbled into my world, they would have been laughed at and rejected and nobody would have helped them.
Because my genius friends were miserable assholes.
Well, not assholes.
They were friends, but they were miserable.
And their relationships were fucked up and they didn't know how to do anything practical.
And I looked at these guys and it's like, okay, they don't like study these books and whatever, but their lives are great and they have good relationships and their kids love them.
And this guy's like living with this really sexy woman and she's really into him and he fixes his car and he made this house.
And I want to be like that guy.
Like, I admire that guy.
And so it was a real sort of turning point in my life, you know, where I was like, oh, I don't want to be a college professor.
No it all.
Smug, no-it-all.
And I'm not accusing you that.
Yeah, yeah.
I can totally associate that.
But that's the road I was going down.
And as you say, it was a defense mechanism.
It was because I felt afraid and alone.
And so I had built up this armor, you know, this pedantic, I'm smarter than everybody armor.
Yeah, Matt, dude, I can so relate to that.
I mean, I think, and I definitely want to ask you some questions about the hitchhiking, but I can relate, like, when I got into like, you know, I'm almost two years sober.
When I got an AA, that was, I think, in a way, some of my hitchhiking moment where like it was the first time like I felt like people accepted me in a way where I wouldn't have done the same for them.
You know, it was people that, you know, I'd always really had nothing growing up, but then here was people that had even less and they weren't, you know, there wasn't judgment and it just like, yeah, man, it just kind of, it's almost like if you took a tree and shook it, it like, and the tree had never felt that before.
And suddenly like the, the, the, the roots and the soil like just vibrated a little and we're like, oh, things feel a little different now.
Yeah.
And that's suddenly how, like, it was just a perspective switch a little bit.
Oh, wow.
Like the thing I've always wanted was to feel some sort of acceptance and to feel, you know, just cared about.
And then that's when it started to adjust.
Oh, well, this is how if somebody didn't care about me this way, I can do this for others.
And then I feel even better then when I care about somebody.
Right.
And it blew my fucking mind out of the water and my heart because I'd never, I just hadn't put it together like that.
Yeah.
So, I mean, if that's just two years ago, you're, you're still opening up.
You're still getting used to this.
Yeah.
I think I am in a lot of ways, man.
That's what, yeah, I mean, I think I am in a lot of ways.
And that's why, you know, I know you're friends with Simon Rex and I love being around guys like that.
Like he's such a like he's been so good to me as a friend, you know, like it's almost, I mean, it really makes me, he doesn't even realize, I don't think, how like special of a person he is, you know?
Like he's just constantly like loving, you know?
He is.
He's, he's so.
I mean, I know you're in this world of people who are famous and they've been in movies and they did this and then they did that.
But Simon is one of these guys who is so fucking down to earth and kind and just like a he's just such a decent person.
Yeah.
And all the movies and the, you know, the stars and the hot women he's been with and all that, it's like somehow it hasn't destroyed him.
Yeah.
That's a hell of an accomplishment.
Yeah, because it's all the hot women, too.
I mean, literally, if you're hanging out with him, you end up becoming almost like a concierge for pussy.
Like you're basically just, no matter where you are, it's like, it's baffling, man.
I went to a 4th of July party with him at Soho House in Malibu.
Oh, that's fun.
It was like, and it's so high school.
It's so much like high school.
There's the cliques and there's the popular and there's different.
And for people who don't know, Soho House is like this sort of private club.
You have to be super.
And it's right on the beach.
It's in Malibu.
So I go and it was like hanging out with the captain of the football team in high school.
It was like, wow, this is what it's like to be with the cool kids.
And I ended up with the supermodel that he was seeing at the time, like sitting on my lap the whole night.
And everyone's like, why is she sitting on that old dude's lap?
Yeah, you feel like Super Hoffman?
What's going on here?
And then she walked to me.
I was like, yeah, like after a while, I was just like, this isn't my world.
I'm not even, yeah, I'm not competing here.
I'm not going to get laid.
I don't even want to like, I don't even want to like, this just isn't my world.
You have to pretend so far outside of yourself to really be comfortable in there.
And you're kind of glad you probably aren't.
Well, I'm too old to pretend.
You're in LA, you're not.
Yeah, I am.
I mean, I don't know where.
It doesn't matter where.
I don't pretend.
I don't pretend about anything.
I'm so bad.
Like, I don't even, sometimes I don't even pretend I'm not farting.
I just be like, you know, like, oh, geez, I forgot there are people here.
I mean, that's awesome.
I'm sort of feral, you know?
So, uh.
But Simon didn't ever, like, if Simon takes you to that kind of thing, he never makes you feel, you're never not still the same.
Like, you're never not just still his buddy.
Oh, no.
And it feels like you two could just be wherever.
He never goes so high up to the scene that it's, that he's disconnected from the reality of like his buddy he brought to a bar.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's something that I find is just remarkable about him.
Yeah.
He has such a big heart.
Sometimes I don't know if he even realizes it, you know?
Well, isn't that part of the package?
Like, you know what I mean?
Like if he did realize it, then he wouldn't be so cool.
Yeah.
Like a woman who knows how gorgeous she is, she's not so gorgeous anymore.
She's kind of annoying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, there's, I mean, it's, yeah.
Or someone who's, you know, a wise, like, like I have this friend who's in his mid-80s and he's sort of like my mentor, I guess, or, you know, whatever.
But like, if you, if you went to him and said, Stanley, you're so wise, he would just laugh at you.
He'd be like, I'm just old, you know.
Simon's met him.
And that's another thing about Simon.
Like, Simon's gone out of his way.
We drove to San Diego together so he could meet this dude.
Oh, right on.
Yeah, I heard about that.
Did you, you drove Winnebago?
You guys own Winnebago?
I have a camper van, a sprinter.
Oh, that's what it was.
That's awesome.
Now, Simon just bought a video.
Yeah, he just got one.
I just went in there the other day and checked it out.
Yeah, that's sweet.
Yeah, he's a special guy, though, man.
He's cool.
And he's somebody, I think, one of the first people in Hollywood that, like, it's crazy.
I've had a ton of other friends, but it's like Simon's a pretty popular guy, and I have more time.
He makes more time to spend with me than, you know, anybody.
Yeah, he comes and we go hiking up in Pango.
He'll buzz over and do and do yoga.
It's always, yeah, it's just, yeah, anyway, he's a special guy, man.
Simon's starting a podcast soon.
He's going to steal all our audience.
I know.
It is.
Hopefully it's just audio tracks of all the relationships he's been in, bro.
Did you see he got this whole Megan Markle thing?
I know.
He played it so well, though.
He did.
He played so well.
He's like, even the garlic breath.
So for people who don't know, like, apparently he went on a date with Megan Markle 15 years ago or something.
She's the new Prince Queen of Scotland or something, right?
Yeah, I don't know.
Something is.
She just married Prince Harry.
Yeah.
I guess.
It's like Monopoly over there.
She's the banker.
Anyway, she's dating the banker.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, but Simon used to, Simon dated her at some point.
Well, like once they went out.
And so this newspaper tracked him down and got an interview.
And he was just like, yeah, she wasn't into me.
I was into her.
She wasn't into me.
And so he played it beautiful.
Yeah, here he is.
Actor reveals how he blew chances because of garlic breath.
But then did Ferris Hilton.
Ferris Hilton likes her garlic breath, man.
And the funny thing is, though, about Simon is, I don't know if we'll ever know.
Because, yeah, he kind of took an L on that.
He could have, you know, who knows what happened with him and her.
I think, but he kind of played the gentleman role there.
Yeah, perfectly.
Yeah.
Right up to the point of saying he thought Harry seemed like a cool guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is the, I mean, that is the classy move.
It's definitely the classy move.
I'm wondering how many dudes would have been like, yeah, you know, you know, we fucking, you know, we got nasty in a Chevelle or something, you know?
I know you like Hoganized cars.
Chevelle, yeah.
A cutlass, supreme.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
But yeah, he played every he played it nice.
I mean, but that's, this is a perfect example.
That's, I mean, that dude has dated basically now the prince of whatever she is, you know, Rhode Island or whatever.
The original Rhode Island, Britain.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaking of ladies, I'm looking through, you know, I was looking through some of your Instagram and I saw you won an AVN award.
Yeah, I'm very proud of that.
My mom had it on her mantelpiece for a while.
Yeah.
Yeah, a buddy of mine.
And that's a porn award, sorry, for our listeners who don't know.
The adult video N, I don't know, Nation Network, something beginning with N. You don't even get to the N, you've already busted a nut usually.
Yeah, it's the Oscar of porn.
And, you know, there are all these categories like, you know, best three-way, best like, you know, anal, best, you know, jizz on face.
I don't know.
There are all sorts of weird categories.
Yeah, face painting, they call it, I think.
Is that what it is?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
But it's only one color.
That's the thing.
The second people can start dyeing their semen via pills intravenously, bro, or something.
Oh, boy.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
So this buddy of mine was making a movie, like a high-end movie that he wanted to be sort of a crossover like porn, but with character development and really well shot and an interesting plot and all that that he was kind of hoping I think would go a little bit mainstream.
And so he asked, so the idea was that it's this couple, it's called Marriage 2.0.
And the story is there's a young couple who are opening up their relationship because they've been together a while.
They're starting to get bored.
They're attracted to other people, but they really love each other.
So it's a common conundrum.
And so they decide, okay, let's fuck other people, but, you know, talk to each other about it and try to do this consciously.
And so the woman in this couple is a documentary filmmaker.
And so she's having some issues and feeling insecure and jealous and whatever.
So she decides to make a movie within the movie where she interviews people who are sort of thinkers and writers about relationships and sexuality.
So my, Casilda and I play ourselves, the authors of Sex at Dawn.
So there's like a stage set up, I mean, a studio thing.
And she's interviewing us about the book.
And then she starts to cry and runs off.
And then the next scene, I'm in the kitchen with her, and we're having this heart-to-heart about open relationships and yada, yada, yada.
And it was, it was actually, I really enjoyed it.
It was interesting because I've done so many interviews.
You know, Sexadon came out in 2010 and I did a lot of press and TED Talks and CNN and everywhere.
And I bet even more on the horizon.
I mean, it still seemed, I mean, it fit right into my present moment.
Yeah, I'm still, I mean, if I wanted to, I'd be doing three or four interviews a week about it.
And then I have a new book coming out later this year, early next year.
So then hopefully that'll.
But anyway, the point of that is like I've become accustomed to ignoring cameras, which I think is a big part of acting.
Ah, I see.
And so when we were doing that scene in the kitchen, it was very easy for me to just focus in on her and ignore the guys with the cameras and the lights and, you know, all that.
And it felt really good.
And after the director was like, dude, you're really good at this.
You should like think about acting.
And I was like, yeah, as long as I can play myself.
Right.
You know, I'm like Jack Nicholson, like, I'm good at being Jack.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, the second you have to play a mother of three, the alb occurred to you.
Exactly.
Like a gay dancer from the 1800s.
Like, yeah, I don't think so.
Yeah.
And that, yeah.
so that was you guys' scene, and then that film won an award.
So the film, I think the film won some other awards, but I was nominated for an award in a very special category, best non-sex performance.
So that's the story of my life right there.
It's like, you kind of win, you kind of lose, you know?
You kind of want to show it to your buddies, you kind of don't.
It's like, you know, fastest slow guy in the race.
That's me.
I'm always at the, you know, the top of the bottom category.
Was there a moment when your friend who was putting the film together, when he reached out when you were thinking, wow, I'm going to get to fucking one of these things?
I didn't want a fucking one of these things.
Right.
So maybe, and you didn't want to.
I get that.
I couldn't do it.
But was there a moment at the beginning when he was first started talking when you were like, man, at least Hopi asked me to fucking this thing?
Well, see, I had worked in porn before.
So this wasn't a new thing for me.
I had a job years ago when the internet was first sort of starting in the mid-90s and I had like logged on.
I finally figured out how to log on.
And of course, the first thing was like, where's the porn?
Yeah, all of it was just porn.
Yeah.
And it was like, this is back in the days where you'd like, you'd get to a site and you'd watch the lines go across and like, oh, there's a nipple coming up here.
Oh, there's the top of her nipple.
Oh, my God.
And then it's just a hat, but you've already come.
It's just like a Yiddish hat.
It's like, oh, no, I've got to start over again.
It was a yarmulka.
So anyway, so I found this site and they had beautiful models and great photography and the sets were really nice and all this.
And then the text was in English and it was like ridiculous English.
It was so bad.
And so I copied it and at the bottom was like a webmaster link or something.
And I pasted it into an email and I underlined all the mistakes.
And I wrote this email saying like, you guys obviously spend a lot of money on this website.
It's really well shot and blah, blah, blah.
But your English is really distracting.
You need an online editor.
I happen to be an online editor.
I'd never heard of online editor.
And I sent it off thinking like nothing's going to happen, but it took me five minutes, right?
I get a phone call a couple days later, like, can you come in for an interview?
This was in Bar, I was living in Barcelona.
Oh, wow.
It turns out this giant Swedish porn company had just relocated to Barcelona called Private.
And they hired me to be their online, their in-house editor and translator.
So I'd been around porn sets a fair bit.
Now, being around porn sets, because as just a regular guy, right, I imagine I'm up at a porn set, dude.
If I'm watching, you know, there's a bunch of people just standing there to say wreck the whole time.
Like, what is that like?
Does it feel more like an art?
I've never been to one.
I've always wanted to go, but I also like it.
I can hook you up.
Yeah?
Sure.
It's the thing is, it's not erotic.
Right.
It's not erotic at all.
And that's the thing.
That's interesting.
On a porn set, I mean, orgies, yeah, sex clubs.
Like, I've been to dungeons.
I've been in a lot of these places.
Damn.
And you look at Damn Voldemort, bro.
Yeah, well, I mean, after Sex of Dawn came out, like anyone with sort of an alternative approach to sexuality came to you.
Well, they're very, we're welcome, you know, like they know our book and they know that we're accepting of all these different things and we're not going to judge anyone.
So we sort of have entree into all those worlds.
And yeah, I mean, I've always been really interested in sexuality anyway.
So I've had, I've been in a lot of weird, kind of what most normal people would consider weird situations long before sex with Donkey.
I mean, I've had probably, this is going to sound weird, but I guess I've spoken about this publicly before.
I probably had at this point, I don't know, half a dozen or more men say, dude, if you want to have sex with my wife, that's totally cool.
Yeah.
You know, I think like I'm just not threatening.
They know I'm not going to, I'm honest about it.
It's all on the surface.
Yeah, you're not going to be slam dunking.
You might be shooting some three-pointers though, you know, like from outside.
Yeah.
Yeah, but they don't, you know what I'm saying?
But they might be like, yeah, non-threatening.
Yeah, and I'm not going to talk shit.
Right.
You know, I remember this, this, there was a woman.
I was friends with the man and the situation came up and she and I used to get together and, you know, we'd have sex and then we'd like lie there in bed and talk about what a great guy her husband was.
And literally, that was, that was what happened, you know?
So I don't know why I'm talking about that.
No, it's, no, this is interesting.
And I think a lot of our listeners, and I mean, even, you know, I think there's definitely a thing these days where, you know, people want to venture outside.
They do have so many other sexual desires that they don't express.
And a lot of times it's because of a marriage or because of, you know, it might be a religious institution that, you know, that they, a template that they base their marriage on, which I think is understandable.
You know, it's such a that's such a narrative in our world.
And it's such a, it's such a life for people, you know, that I think a lot of guys are probably afraid to even broach the subject or bring it up.
There's probably both spouses in a lot of marriages and relationships just laying there thinking some of the same things.
Yeah, and that's one of the best things that's happened as a result of Sex at Dawn that I get emails from people saying the book enabled them to get into a conversation.
And then once they got into it, as you said, they found they were thinking the same thing.
And it actually enabled them to be so much closer together.
You know, whether they do anything different or not, just the fact that now we're talking about it and we're being honest about it, that can take so much pressure off, you know?
So much.
I mean, I've experienced this recently with a girl that I've been dating, and like, and yeah, just to be able to communicate, it's almost amazing that you can't communicate sometimes, even though you're in an environment where you're supposed to be able to communicate.
Well, yeah, you're in a relationship supposedly with the person you feel closest to in the world.
And yet, right from the beginning, there are these areas where you're lying to each other about something really important, right?
Really intimate.
Like, oh no, baby, I'm not interested.
I'm not attracted to other women.
Yeah, I'm not.
That's bullshit.
That's bullshit.
And it's bullshit when she says the same thing to you.
So here you are lying to each other, right?
About something that, of course, you're attracted to other people.
Yeah.
Come on.
Yeah.
It's like if a hot chick walks by, you always have to pretend like you just watched a really slow bird fly by far away and you always get busted.
Get something on my shoulder.
It's bullshit.
I remember I was sitting in this hotel lobby in Sydney.
I was down in Australia at this great conference called the Festival of Dangerous Ideas.
Wow.
It's great.
Yeah, in the Sydney Opera House.
Fantastic.
Anyway, and I was sitting in this lobby and this smoking hot woman walks by.
No bra, tits bouncing.
Tits out?
No, well.
Oh, in a shirt.
She was dressed, you know, but they were.
In some sort of holster.
I think they were just swaying like God intended, you know.
God.
Dude, if a huge tit fucking hit me one time and knocked me and I died, I'd be cool with that.
Like, damn, a tit killed that dude.
But how dope is that?
Okay, so the woman's walking across the lobby.
She's walking across the lobby.
Everybody's looking, which is what she wants.
You know, like, come on.
And I sort of see across the lobby, there's this couple.
And the dude is like pretending he's not looking, but he is.
And the woman, the wife, is pretending that she doesn't notice that the dude's pretending not to notice.
And it's just like this shitstorm of fucking bullshit, you know?
And it's like, what is the problem?
If your husband's alive, of course he's noticing this woman, right?
You're noticing this woman.
We're all noticing her.
Like, are you supposed to like not look at sunsets either?
Because, you know, no, you're the only beautiful thing in the world, honey.
Yeah.
Come on, people.
Like, even the clock in the lobby stopped ticking for a second.
Exactly.
Like, everything is just held up.
The reception guy's like, can you just wait a minute?
Yeah, I'll get to you in a minute, sir.
The fruit stopped breaking.
The elevator is like.
Oh, I've been in those environments when like the hottest woman in the world walks through the room and you're just like, my God.
Yeah.
And your tongue falls out of your mouth and then a tongue falls out of your dick and you're like, wow, my tongue.
Tongue falls out of your tongue.
Yeah.
And it just keeps going all the way right up to her heels.
It's like a red carpet.
And it really is.
I wonder if your tongue falls out almost as like this proverbial red carpet of your soul and you hope that this woman will walk right up into your mouth.
Yeah.
You know, with the heels.
Oh, I'd let her.
Yeah.
But yeah, so we get, we feel, so say in that instance, the man, you know, pretends he doesn't see and then the woman pretends that he didn't, she didn't see the man see the woman.
Right.
And I guess it's this, it's kind of a song and dance that we do, but it's based in a good, do you think it's based from a good place?
Because I feel like the man's intention was he didn't want his wife to feel bad or his girlfriend to feel unwanted.
Yeah, but that's treating the symptom.
It's not treating the underlying disease.
Okay.
The underlying disease is feeling that your partner being attracted to other people is an insult to you.
Right.
And that's a problem.
So I think if we can overcome that.
Now, of course, I'm not saying, you know, you're walking down the street and you're like, damn, look at the asshole on that chick.
Like, dude, be cool.
You know, don't be an asshole.
And same thing with women.
Like, you don't need to be insulting to the person you're with.
Right.
But there's no point in not acknowledging that we're living sexual beings and we feel attractions for other people.
And in fact, in a couple, you know, if I'm with my wife and we're walking down the street and, you know, we're holding hands and I don't see a hot woman, she'll squeeze my hand and be like, ooh, 10 o'clock, 10 o'clock.
Don't miss her.
Like, you know, she's looking out for me, you know?
And that makes me feel so close to her because I don't have to pretend like, oh, yeah, she's hot.
But, you know, I think we develop these pathologies because of the repression, right?
Whereas if you're not repressing it, you're not pretending, you're not lying to yourself and to your partner, then it's not a big deal.
Like, yeah, she's hot, whatever, great.
You know, you can enjoy it, but it's not a problem.
Just like, I don't want to buy every beautiful house I see, right?
I don't even want to go into it.
I just drive on by and it's like, wow, that's a nice house.
Fine.
So I think there's our appetites get distorted by repression.
It's like any pressure you hold it in, it becomes explosive.
And so those repressions are like things whenever you first start dating someone, you say like, oh, I'm not interested.
You know, I don't, I don't think about other women or I don't, you know, instead of being like, you know, I love you, but if I see a hot woman, I'm going to appreciate that.
That would be, it would be almost unnatural.
It would be me shutting down a natural desire within my body.
Right.
Well, it's like I said, like sunset.
You see a sunset, you see it.
Of course you see it.
You've got an appetite for beauty and a capacity to recognize it.
How is that a problem?
Yeah.
You know?
And it almost goes back to what you were saying earlier about yourself that anything that doesn't feel natural, you try and you stay away from it.
Exactly.
It's the same, that's that same thing.
Like I'm really suspicious of anything.
And we live in a society that's constantly telling us to distrust our appetites.
You know, think about a little kid.
The first thing that little kid's learning is, no, you eat now because now's when we eat, but I'm not hungry.
Doesn't matter, eat.
Oh, go to bed, but I'm not tired.
Doesn't matter, go to bed.
Wake up.
Oh, I'm really sleepy.
No, it doesn't matter.
Wake up.
Ignore your body.
Ignore your appetites.
Ignore the wisdom that's accumulated over millions of years of evolution.
Yeah.
You know, telling you what to eat, giving you appetites for the things that are going to be good for you.
Ignore all that and do what we tell you because margarine is better than butter.
Turns out margarine is totally fucked.
But when I was growing up, you were told, oh, stay away from that fi-fat diet.
That'll kill you.
No, actually, what you're giving me will kill me.
You know, so things taste good for a reason, right?
Things are our bodies and our, I think, our something deeper, our spirits, our souls, whatever we're going to talk about, they yearn for connection with other people.
And one of the ways that that's expressed is through sexuality.
Now, I think because we live in this distorting environment, that can get twisted up and become problematic in lots of ways, like relating to some of the stuff we were talking about earlier, like porn, you know, over attention to porn or whatever, or this incel thing that's happening now where like dudes in high school are shooting people because they got rejected.
They're not getting laid.
Anytime these natural appetites are repressed and denied, bad shit starts to happen.
And now, when you say, when you talk about, I love this, this thing about the incel, like, you know, people, you know, guys, high school guys who are in the, you know, more nerd category, or not nerd, but whatever category, the unwanted, or if they feel undesirable, you know, or outcasts and they end up, you know, shooting up a school and, you know, or taking out some type of wild activity like that.
In addition to, say, if other people are getting sex around them, and then at the same time, there's this porn that makes it seem even more like sex should be so accessible.
I feel like that might be even a greater pressure than we probably faced when I was young.
You just heard a rumor about so-and-so fucking.
And if you didn't know them, you couldn't even ask them if they did fuck.
You just had to assume that, like, I remember in seventh grade or sixth grade heard about two people fucked by a pool on a bench or something, you know?
Which now, as I've gotten older, seems way uncomfortable to me, right?
Especially in the Louisiana summer.
But at the time, I believed every second of it.
Whenever I saw that person, I believed it, but I didn't know that boy well enough to ask him.
So that was my, I only felt that one, oh, I'm not as good as him maybe in that world.
But now if you feel a few of those things, and then you also have this porn constantly available, like sex is, yes, sex, everybody should be able to have it.
Well, not just porn, but advertising.
Yeah.
Right.
Everything.
They're selling hamburgers and trucks and beer and it's all tits and ass.
And, you know, everything's about sex, sex, sex everywhere.
And then they tell us also that we shouldn't look at women a certain way.
Now there's this whole other movement, like don't look at women sexually, but yet you've raised a society for the past 40, 50 years of seeing sex along with, you know, here's some tits with this, you know, blender.
You know what I'm saying?
You can't make a shake without a shake.
Yeah, that's a dangerous combination, but you can't, you know, it's that bait and switch that advertising has done for a long time.
Sure.
And then now it's there's this huge push against those same people who were really just victims of advertising to say that you can't look at women sexually.
Yeah.
It's, it's, there's a lot going on.
There is.
There is.
And I think the suffering of the teenage male who is not able to connect with women is a huge problem that isn't getting talked about.
I mean, now with the incel, it's starting to be talked about, but still not with any kind of sympathy or understanding.
And look, just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is the fault of women.
I'm certainly not.
No, it doesn't sound like that at all.
I don't think anyone's taken it like that.
If they are, they're out of their minds.
Yeah, but it's important to say that because I think women, you know, historically get blamed for a lot that they're as much victims of or more victims of, you know, like promiscuity, you know, in sex adon, we argue that we evolve to be pretty promiscuous species, which is evident in, you know, so much everywhere.
But a lot of times people will be like, you know, well, why aren't women more relaxed about sex then?
Why aren't women, you know, just more openly just fucking whoever they want?
Well, how about because for thousands of years they've been burned at the stake.
For doing that.
For doing that.
For even down there.
For talking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or like left to starve in the streets, right?
You dirty whore, get the fuck out of my house.
You looked at another man, you know, it's like the women have, for thousands of years, had to deal with incredible oppression.
Oh, they've taken the brunt of evolution in a lot of ways.
Well, I'm not even talking about evolution.
I'm talking about culture.
Okay, yeah.
They've taken the brunt of, yeah, what have they taken the brunt of?
Yeah, it's like whenever there's something, women have put up with a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So when I talk about the frustration of teenage boys who can't connect to women, yeah, that's why I'm very careful saying I'm not blaming the women.
I get it.
But it is a problem.
And I think there's a lot of rage because, and it's not just sex.
I mean, hey, there's nothing hornier than a 14-year-old boy.
Yeah.
Oh, I'd put one in my fucking dick right now if I could, just to help me.
I'd drink the blood of one, bro.
Yeah.
Well, they used to take the testicles of chimpanzees and grind them up and then inject that into men's testicles.
Damn.
Yeah.
Damn.
Whoa, bro.
Yeah, people do some weird shit to try to get horny.
Wow, dude.
I would hide one in my ass.
Maybe I'm not shooting one into my nuts with a needle.
You'd hide a 14-year-old boy in your ass?
No.
But I'd hide.
Hide.
They're coming.
I'd hide a couple chimpanzee nuts and chimpanzees nuts in my ass to, yeah, to strengthen me.
I'm on Sialis right now from India.
I'm buying that shit.
Makes my legs sweat, but it makes me feel alert.
Now, wait a minute.
You're bumming out because you're jerking off three times a week, but you're taking Cialis.
I mean, if I want to be sexually involved or feel that way, you know, I really sometimes have to just pop on just to feel that extra adventure when I'm walking around town, you know?
Extra adventure.
Yeah, because I don't bone.
I mean, when I was young, I used to bone up like a damn, you know, like somebody looking for nickels at the beach, you know?
But now I just don't.
Did it beep too?
I mean, it should have.
I think it could whistle a little.
But now I don't get that anymore.
You know, I just don't.
And I don't get it in LA that much.
There's so much going on here that I'm, and I feel like I'm hyper-aware sometimes.
And I feel a constant anxiety when I'm here.
But the second I land in any other city, man, I mean, it could be Toledo and I'll fucking be erect right when we hit the runway.
You get a Toledo hard off.
I think that's the name of their roller derby team.
I think it's the name of a steak that's served there.
Well done.
But no, I want to get back to some of the stuff you were talking about with young men.
I think there's another element there, and this is just that a lot of young men were raised out of split parents.
And so I think there's this weird connection too where a lot of men looked at their mothers as fathers as well or something.
And so there's an element there I'm finding in my generation where even in their 30s, a lot of men are having trouble with women.
And we notice it even just from the podcast, man.
So many guys reaching out, like addicted to masturbate, addicted to porn, like, or at least they feel they are.
Yeah.
And you see it in like Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Joe Rogan, me, you, Duncan.
Like, I think the podcast world, a lot of what's going on there is a lot of the audience is young people and I think disproportionately men looking for some sort of guidance because as you say, they didn't have a father figure in the house.
And there's a big hunger for that.
Justifiably so.
And I think it's, it's, you know, when somebody acknowledges their vulnerability, that's such a strong thing to do, you know?
Amen.
So, you know, people who are doing that, who are reaching out to you or Joe or me or whatever, I always really respect that because like until you know you need something, until you know like that you're missing something, then you're just an asshole.
Yeah.
You know, you're just running around thinking you got it figured out, doing damage.
But once you stop and say, oh, wait a minute, I got to stop and think about this and ask somebody for help.
That's a really important moment in your life.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, you say that vulnerability, that asking for somebody for help.
I remember, yeah, I mean, I still notice just how huge that is now.
Like even if I'm having a moment with someone where I feel like I don't want to tell them something, to then like take a moment and actually share whatever that is, you know, that feeling, you know, like, you know, right now I'm upset and, you know, the reason why is this.
Instead of just leaving the house and, you know, that old-fashioned, you know, caveman run out of the house and hold it all in, that vulnerability.
It's amazing at how I never in my life knew how to be vulnerable.
I just didn't even know you could.
I felt probably vulnerable, you know, but I just never knew how to, you know, even tell a woman, like, look, I'm, you know, I feel nervous or I feel this way.
Or to show up, even if you go to talk to a girl that you think is attractive, be like, I fucking, you know, usually if I saw a girl as attractive as you, I'd just go, you know, jerk off in my car, but I'm trying to come over and say, hey, this time.
Just vulnerability is huge.
And the thing that young men don't understand, and I certainly didn't understand when I was young, is that women are way ahead of us in a lot of ways.
And one of them is that...
This is so crazy.
I just had that moment.
Just because of your voice.
Sorry.
Oh, right.
Oh, yeah.
I interrupt you, though.
And one of them is...
Like not, I'm not telling you, like, cry, you know, like all the time.
But I have found that women, like, like I get a lot of emails from people saying, oh, I could, my girlfriend would never accept, like, you know, I can't talk about this stuff with her, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
The thing is, I also get those emails from women saying, I wish my boyfriend would be more honest with me.
I wish he'd tell me, you know, the thing is, when you're really honest and vulnerable with a woman, it makes her feel safe because she knows you're, you're real.
Yes.
And she can trust you.
Yes.
And that you're not thinking something that you're not going to say.
You're not hiding things.
That's what women are really afraid of is like, what are you hiding?
What's going on?
What do you have in your pocket that's going to come out and stab me in the back?
And so if they meet a guy who's like, look, I mean, when I met Casilda, I laid some shit out on the table to her about, you know, being attracted to other women and stuff.
And she said to me, she looked at me and she said, you know, I grew up in Africa.
I've been a psychiatrist for 10 years or whatever it was.
And I know how men are.
I know how the world is.
But you're the first man who's ever had the balls to tell me that.
Right.
Like, she knew it.
She knew everything.
Most women know how men are.
They know how we think.
They know.
But the fact that I said it out loud and I said it to her early and I was like, look, you know, here's, here's who I am.
You got to know this.
That established a basis for our relationship.
We're still together 20 years later.
And I think that women will forgive and men too, I think will forgive a lot more than we think if they know you're being honest with them, if they know you're being straight And they don't need to worry about what you're not telling them.
No, I couldn't agree with you more.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I mean, I've spent relationships in the past just hiding the truth and like, you know, things that I, you know, I was, you know, cheating or lying or running around with these with other women, but I still was in love with the person that I was with.
And then that made everything else so complicated.
Because then every time I looked at my girlfriend, I had these lies inside of me.
And so it just created, and then I would begin to resent her for not even knowing I was a liar at some point, which was so baffling.
It was like, you know, just what a sickness it all becomes.
But how does a man who had a relation who has a really, who's in a relationship now and they see, you know, that they wish they could be more honest, is there a way for some of these guys to kind of backtrack or women, because we do have a lot of female listeners as well, for them to backtrack and get into a more comfortable space?
Well, yeah, I mean, it's harder when you're already in the relationship to sort of go back and reestablish where you are, but I think a lot of people do that.
And I think, you know, what I say to people is figure out what your non-negotiables are and then don't negotiate.
I think that's a mistake that a lot of people make.
So if you're already in the relationship, then the question I have is, do you have kids?
If you have kids, they really kind of have to be the top priority.
100%.
And so then it's about, okay, how do we keep this ship afloat as, you know, until these kids are up and out on their own or whatever, the best we can do.
But if you're in a relationship and you don't have kids, then it's like, you know, take some MDMA and go for a hike, you know, go camping and get real with each other.
Go sit by the beach, go sit by a campfire, get away from all the distractions and yeah, lay your shit out, you know, and because, I mean, it's so funny.
We, the way we live our lives is like, oh, I want to be with you for the rest of my life, but I don't want you to really know who I am.
Well, what the fuck kind of relationship is that?
You're going to spend your whole life with someone who doesn't know you?
Really?
That's what you want to do?
Why?
Because you're so ugly that you're afraid if they know you, that they'll leave you?
Yeah.
Well, I've got news for you.
They're thinking the same thing.
And there's no more beautiful moment than when you show the thing that you're afraid of to someone and they're like, yeah, I knew that was there.
I love you anyway, man.
Of course.
That's a relationship.
And that's real love.
That's real love.
Exactly.
Yeah, I had a moment with my mother, I think, where I realized that no matter what she ever did to me or whatever I thought she did, or even things that, or however our relationship was, that I loved her in spite of that.
And I'd never had that thought before.
Like my whole life, I'd always, you know, I think I still battle with a lot of things because, you know, my father was 70 when I was born, you know, my mother was working all the time.
There just wasn't, you know, a lot of disconnection, things that were, there almost just built into the fabric of me, you know.
But I think I'd always held those things against her or put them on opposite sides of the scale of my love for her.
So one kind of had to be balancing the other or something.
And this was the first time I ever thought that, you know, and I said to her, I said, look, you know, no matter what ever has happened between us or even that I've thought has happened, you know, that I love you no matter what you ever did to me or I thought you ever did to me.
And that was like one of the greatest moments I ever had in my life.
And I didn't know I could even have that.
Right.
But it was like the scariest thing for me to say that I would love somebody even if they hurt me.
Right.
Or I thought they did.
Right.
And it was powerful for her too, because I'm sure she probably has thought in her life that she didn't do good enough.
Because I bet a lot of parents feel that.
All of them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's.
But it goes back to vulnerability.
Just like, I don't know.
I don't know why I brought that up.
Well, you know, unconditional love and acceptance.
Yes.
Also, there's a difference, you know, talking about romantic love.
There's a difference between loving someone and being in love with someone.
And I think we tend to conflate that and get those things mixed up.
Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Because I feel like I could have some trouble with that.
Yeah.
You know, I think being in love is that, you know, we say falling in love in English.
In Spanish, there are two words for love.
There's te quiero and teamo.
And tequiero literally means I want you.
It's about desire, possession.
You know, you want to be with them all the time.
You just want to fuck all the time.
My garamba.
Exactly.
That kind of love.
But then that wears away.
That burns off, you know, and then you find out if you love the person or not.
And the problem is that, you know, people are making these major decisions in their lives, like who they're going to have kids with and live with and introduce to all their friends and all that based upon that drunkness.
Yeah.
You know, that, you know, she's so hot and, you know, I love the way she smiles.
And, you know, he's got a great job and a great sense of humor and whatever.
And then you get past that stuff and it's like, oh, you're just a person.
I'm just a person.
Now we figure out if we respect each other, if we actually want to hang out, you know, so that's love and that's what's left when that other shit burns away if it was ever there to begin with.
Right.
And so there's this book called The Erotic Mind by Jack Morin that probably came out in the 70s or 80s.
I remember there's...
Well, yeah, I don't really remember the book, to be honest.
I just remember this one formula in it.
So I can't really recommend the book because this is all I remember from it.
But he says, attraction plus an obstacle equals passion.
So you think of every love story.
It's, I want to be with you, but you're married.
You're from another religion.
You're in a high tower.
Yeah, exactly.
Your parents, our parents won't let us.
We're different classes.
We're different races and we're in the South and whatever.
And so that obstacle builds up.
It takes this desire where if there were no obstacle, it might be like, yeah, you went out and whatever.
She's cool.
Yeah, it's just a long-haired girl that lives on the first floor.
Exactly.
But it turns into this giant love story because of the obstacle.
So what do we do?
So you meet, let's say you meet the woman of your dreams.
She lives in New York and you're in LA and oh, you see each other and there's an obstacle.
It's really hot and you can't wait to see her and you schedule your tour so you can be where she is and you do all this stuff.
And then eventually it gets to the point where like, you know, let's move in together.
And so she moves out to LA and now you're living together and six months later, it's like, fuck, what did I do?
Yeah.
What have I done?
You're hanging out with the plants instead of her.
Yeah, my life was so good before.
You started a garden.
You removed the obstacle.
Yeah.
So are you saying that it's better then to keep an obstacle in the relationship at all times?
Is that one element that we can use to help our relationships?
And I know you're not saying, I know we're just thinking, but are you thinking that maybe the alternative to that is a different path where there's a love first, a reality first, and then the sex comes kind of tertiary to that?
Well, what I'm saying is that it's the nature of existence for the passion to evaporate when you've removed the obstacle.
And so you can't blame that.
Like a lot of people get together and the sex is really good.
It's super hot.
And then four years later, it's like, it's kind of worn out.
They're not.
And they say, oh, this relationship, this isn't the right guy.
This isn't the right woman.
This relationship isn't as good as I thought it was.
That's not necessarily true.
What's happened is that you've just, you know, you're a certain kind of animal and you get bored.
And it's not, that doesn't mean that that's not a good guy or a good woman or a good relationship.
It just means you're Homo sapiens, right?
Like if you ate Thai food every night for the rest of your life, after a while, you'd be like, fucking Thai food again, right?
Yeah.
That doesn't mean Thai food's not good.
It's my favorite food in the world, but I wouldn't want to eat it every night.
It's like doing magic.
Like I tried doing magic for a while and after a while I was like, fuck magic, dude.
You know?
Fuck magic, yeah.
I mean, at a certain point.
But yeah, I see what you're saying.
So it's like.
Yeah, you wear out the fascination.
And that doesn't mean it's not, the person's not cool.
So what I'm saying is understand that.
Understand that.
And don't blame yourself or her or right.
Or if you want to maintain that, then yeah, you got to keep an obstacle.
Then say, all right, we're going to have a long distance relationship or we're going to vacation separately.
Like learn, like miss each other sometimes.
Yeah.
You know, don't work together.
Don't don't be together all the time, even though that's what it feels like you want to do.
That's a disaster.
That's, you know, you need resistance.
You work out.
You need resistance.
You need to lift a weight.
You need to push against something.
And I struggle with that at times.
There are moments when I'm needy, when I feel needy.
And I will, instead of like experiencing some of that need or that desire, letting it build up or may or, you know, even for that person, I'll immediately call them or immediately text them.
And it kind of takes a little bit of valve off of the overall desire for them.
And I think in a weird way that now I'm thinking about it, it might be what happens to me sometimes sexually.
Like I'm afraid to let my sexual desires build up because maybe I'm afraid of, you know, what'll happen then.
Like I'm not thinking I'm going to be a rapist or nothing like that, but I'm just thinking that I might, you know, create a stronger bond with a woman that I really care about.
You know, so I think maybe that sometimes I've never really thought about it, but that could be some of the reason why go to pornography or find an outlet, you know, masturbate or something.
And I know I'm, you know, I don't mean to keep coming back to my case, but I just, I noticed that I have an unhealthy relationship with it.
And so I'm still in the search of kind of figuring out what some of that is, you know.
Right.
And I'm okay with it because I am, you know, I'm open into learning and I'm, you know, taking on new ideas.
Yeah.
I did want to ask you though about hitchhiking, man, if you don't mind.
I know it's a full circle, but bro, sometimes the ride, you know, sometimes you don't know where the ride's going to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I was like the last of the hitchhikers.
You know, nobody hitchhikes anymore.
People are like, man, there's one left and it's a dude.
All right, I'll take him.
It's like me and guys who just got out of prison are the only people out there.
Do you think we lost something by not having those days?
What was that like?
I mean, you threw the thumb up or you were meeting people at truck stops?
No, I just sat and stood on the side of the road.
That's awesome.
You know who did it recently, actually?
The director.
James Franco?
I wouldn't be surprised.
But no, this guy who did Pink Flamingos and Faster Pussycat Kill, Kill, Kill.
He's from Baltimore, John Waters.
Yeah, he hitchhiked across the country.
No.
And then he wrote a book about it.
And I remember It's Roger Waters, I'm thinking.
Roger Waters.
John Waters is a homosexual man.
Yeah, little pin.
Yeah.
Really cool guy.
Yeah, people say he's the best.
Sorry, I didn't mean to describe him just as a homosexual man.
He's an artist, a producer.
He's a creator.
And his films are like flamboyantly kind of campy, gay.
It's not like he hides it or anything.
He's Palm Springs.
He's like the mayor of Palm Springs.
Oh, is he?
I don't know if he is, but everywhere you go there, everybody says they know him.
But anyhow, go on.
I'm saying.
he did it.
So, he hitchhiked across the country.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
And I remember like a van of musicians on tour picked him up.
They drove by him and they're like, that was fucking John Waters.
Like, what?
And they like backed up and he goes, You're John Waters.
Yeah.
So a lot of people picked him up, didn't know who he was, though.
Yeah.
So he just.
You'd think the fancy umbrella would be a dead giveaway, though.
The cape.
But yeah, how fascinating.
Was it fat?
Were you, did you find there was more fear by the pickupper or by you?
Well, I think if they were afraid, they didn't stop.
So I don't remember many people being afraid of me.
If they were afraid, they didn't stop.
That's a good point.
No one's like, I'm so fucking scared.
Let me stop and open my door.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I never thought about that.
Screw a roller coaster.
I'm going to pitch up a hitchhiker.
Yeah, you're making a commitment, too.
I mean, we hitchhiked.
So I hitchhiked from New York to Seattle the first year.
I did this twice, two years in a row.
So I went from New York to Seattle, and then I took this Alaskan ferry up the Inside Passage to – The Inside Passage, yeah.
No, the Alaskan Ferry.
Oh, yeah.
Sorry.
They both work, right?
They both work.
That's true.
And now, so the ferry was that, so that was more of just kind of a traveling thing.
It wasn't a hitchhike.
You didn't have to hitchhike to get onto a fire.
No, no, I just paid, and you could camp out on the deck.
They had like a cover.
It was amazing.
And the stars you must have seen must have been.
Well, yeah, didn't see a lot of stars because it doesn't really get dark in Alaska in the summer.
Oh, yeah.
So, but orcas and bears and bald eagles everywhere.
It's really nice.
So up the, it's like four or five days up the Inside Passage, and then you get off at either Haynes or Skagway and then hitchhike up through the Yukon and then across to Fairbanks and then down to Kenai and different places.
I went seward in different places.
So it's a long fucking hitch.
And it's a manly trek, too.
I mean, that's a lot of, you know, you're seeing a lot of animals.
You're seeing a lot of nature.
So I imagine at that time, you said it was kind of a transformative time, that there's also this ambiance of that you're not alone in the universe.
There's other animals.
There's, you know, and that's a manly trek.
That's ice cold out there.
Not in the summer.
Oh.
Yeah.
In the summer, it's pretty warm.
But yeah, I mean, there are bears around and you got to have all your food with you.
You got a tent, you got a sleeping bag.
You got, you know, you got to take care of yourself.
It was a rite of passage for me.
It was good.
And then, yeah, and then coming back, I took the train across Canada one year and then I hitched from Montreal down to New York to see this woman.
That was a weird one.
I was coming down through the Adirondacks and like in the middle of nowhere and it was getting dark and I was starting to think, you know, okay, I'm going to have like another 20 minutes and I'm going to go, you know, find a place to crash in the woods here.
And this guy stops and I get in the car and the dude's like big muscles, tats, crew cut, ex-military looking guy.
And I always had this, like I wore jeans and I had these NAM boots and I had a knife inside my boot under my jeans and my right leg.
Just because it-It seems like everybody's really- Yeah, no, no.
Yeah.
Can I get in the trunk?
And I never had to use it.
I never pulled it out, but it was just like if somebody, if things got really weird, I had it, you know, something.
Anyway, so I get in this car and there's a little small talk with this dude and where you going, where he was in Alaska.
And he's like, yeah, okay.
He says, so you like knives?
Like that.
And I was like, yeah, like, damn, knives are cool.
And he said, I noticed you have one in your right boot.
Wow.
I was like, so then you feel like a murderer.
Well, I feel like I'm about to get murdered, maybe.
Like, how did he know I have a knife in my right boot?
Like, it's under my jeans.
Maybe he was ready.
Like, maybe he could smell knives, I guess.
So I'm like, I say, well, it's just, I'm hitchhiking.
It's just something to, you know, to blah, blah, blah.
And he's like, yeah, that's cool.
That's cool.
And he grabs his belt buckle.
He's got this big belt buckle.
He pulls and there's a knife.
No.
It's a handle of a knife and the blade's like under his belt.
And he goes like that and he's holding it right in front of my face, this fucking like six-inch dagger.
Fuck, you thought you were dead.
I'm like, yeah, I'm going to die now because I'm in the middle of nowhere.
Sun's going down, no cars anywhere.
We're pushing along.
Yeah, he'll dump my body anywhere, right?
Yeah, he's probably been riding up and down here for a decade.
It's like, hey, finally got a hitchhiker.
Another one.
Anyway, so this knife's right in front of me.
And I say, oh, that's a nice knife.
He says, yeah.
And I say, can I hold it?
And he's like, yeah, go ahead.
And so I took it and I was like, that's beautiful, man.
And I give it back to him.
He puts it back.
He says, yeah, I got another one here.
He's got like three knives on his body.
Oh, my God.
Turns out this dude was a prison warden.
There's a high security prison up there.
And he was a warden.
And so when he saw me on the side of the road, he scanned me and immediately saw a bulge in my jeans, you know.
Wow.
And he's like, yeah, that's what he does for a living, you know?
And that was an important experience for me because it made it clear to me that the knife was not going to save me.
The knife was going to get me in trouble.
And that there were, like, I was an amateur and there are pros.
There are pros.
And before you'd Always thought you were the pro.
I thought I got a secret.
Yeah.
And it turns out, no, dude, you don't have a secret.
Like, if you're dealing with someone where you would need a weapon, the chances are you're dealing with someone who's five steps ahead of you.
Wow.
And, you know, it's like lying to cops.
Like a detective, not a guy pulled you over, you know, speed.
Right.
Detectives spend all the day being lied to.
You know, they, you're not going to bullshit out a fucking cop.
You know, it doesn't matter if you're smarter than him.
He does that for a living.
You don't.
It's like get into a fist fight with Joe Rogan.
Like, it's not going to go well.
You know, it's just not going to happen.
It's so funny.
It reminds me, I recently got pulled over.
And since I quit drinking and doing drugs for now, it almost made me feel cool to get pulled over.
It was like 1.30 in the morning.
The cop stopped me.
She walked.
Actually innocent.
Yeah.
Well, she walked up.
And also, I was like, I was breaking the law a little bit.
Like before, I always felt like I was breaking the law.
But now I'm like, oh, cool.
It's pretty cool you pulled me over.
And, you know, thanks, you know, kind of give me a little bit of street credit.
And then.
Can we do a selfie?
Yeah, yeah, almost.
But then I said, when she came back, she'd written me this ticket.
And I think it was a woman, you know, it's kind of one of those kind of, you know, wild cops, you know.
But, and I said, how did you know I wasn't drunk?
You know, I said, I just, I just haven't drank for a few years.
I said, how did you know?
I'm just curious.
She goes, have you ever been around somebody that's drunk?
I said, yeah.
She goes, that's what it's like.
We know.
It's like, you know, most of the time you can tell.
She's like, it's not that big of a crazy mystery, you know?
And that put it in perspective for me.
I was like, oh, wow, this whole time when I've been drinking and driving, I was like, oh, I'm playing this big secretive game.
But really, it's so obvious.
And it's not exactly what you're saying, but I can understand as a young man, where you're like, oh, I got some growing up to do because there's some real men out here.
Well, it is.
Like, you think, I mean, that's sort of the essence of being young and maybe being drunk is thinking you're getting away with shit, that the people around you, they're just being nice to you.
You know, they're just not calling you on your bullshit, but everyone knows it.
Oh, that's so the essence of being young.
Yeah.
That's so the essence of it.
You think you're pulling it up.
Yeah, but you're just seeming like an idiot in front of people that already know.
I'm talking about being innocent and how like exciting that can be sometimes.
I just did this road trip to New Orleans and back in the van, you know, all across Texas.
And it occurred to me driving across Texas is like, I don't have any weed in this car.
Like this might be the first time in my life that I've ever driven across Texas with like, they could pull me over.
They could search the car.
They wouldn't find anything.
It's amazing.
It almost felt like a wasted opportunity, you know?
Yeah, but you were, but at the same time, you were almost so much more advanced than you probably had been 20 years ago when you would have had all the drugs or whatever.
Yeah, I guess.
I don't know.
But I mean, that 20-year-old me is, you know, or 30-year-old me is like a little disappointed.
Yeah.
I went through Heathrow recently.
Heathrow.
That's fair.
Heathrow Air Force.
That's a mulligan on that one.
And man, it was a weird thing.
They put my bag through this thing and then they're like, okay, you got to wait over there.
And then I saw them talking and then they took it and they put it through another one, a line, the security line that was closed down.
They put it through that machine.
And then they came back and talked some more.
And then they did something else.
And this guy comes over to me.
He's like, you and I have to have a conversation.
I'm like, yeah.
He's like, what are your hobbies?
I'm like, hobbies?
And that's a trick question because you could have a ton of them.
Yeah.
They can whine.
Well, see, the thing is, I'm like, I was like you when you got pulled over.
I'm like, I know there are no drugs in that bag.
Yeah.
I know, like, there's absolutely nothing that is going to cause a problem here.
And even if like there's some misunderstanding, you Google me.
I'm like a semi-famous author with a PhD.
Like I'm not a terrorist.
So whatever it is you suspect is not real.
So I felt really relaxed, you know, and this is just like, oh, this is going to be an experience.
And so he's like, hobbies.
I was like, I don't know.
I don't really have any hobbies.
He's like, well, what do you do?
You know, when you're not, what do you do for a living?
I was like, yeah, I write.
I'm a psychologist.
It's like, what do you do when you're not working?
I was like, dude, like, I'm 56 years old.
I jerk off.
I go to bed.
Like, I literally said that to him.
And he didn't laugh.
Maybe you have half a muffin.
Exactly.
A muffin top.
Just the top because I like it crispy.
But he, so he's not laughing.
And then he's like, do you work with animals?
I was like, no.
Do you garden?
Like, no, I don't fucking garden.
I used to grow weed, you know, 10 years ago.
Who is this guy, huh?
He's very curious.
Well, he's the security dude.
Right.
And then he says, well, we're going to have to call the police because you didn't give me what I need.
I was like, what are you talking about?
He's like, well, we found nitrates on your bag and they're used for explosives.
And sometimes they're in fertilizer, but you don't garden.
You don't work with animals.
So we got to call the cops.
Call the cops, dude.
But, you know, you're wrong.
And he says the machine's never wrong.
I was like, oh, wrong this time, dude.
So five minutes later, I'm surrounded by nine like cops in body armor.
And you're out in front of everybody at the airport?
Yeah.
And he throws probably embarrassing to me.
Surrounded.
No, I felt like fucking Jason Bourne, dude.
I wanted to start throwing kicks and like run for it.
Dude, you should have just done a kick into the air just to kind of show off a little bit.
Get a little Bruce Lee shit going on there.
Yeah, it was crazy.
And then they did the whole thing where they're talking, they're over there murmuring, and the dudes are watching me.
And then one dude's up in my face, like, you know, what flight were you on?
And where are you from?
And what are you doing?
Like being a dick.
And then he goes away.
And then this other guy stand there and he's like, yeah, don't worry.
He gets a little intense sometimes.
Oh, yeah, the nice guy.
Good cop, bad guy.
Exactly.
And I said, like, oh, you're the good cop.
He's like, yeah, okay, you got me.
I was like, yeah.
At least you're not American cops because I'd be like bruised.
Oh, they'll paint you black and shoot you too.
Some of them.
Exactly.
But Some of them won't.
Exactly.
Yeah, man, it's alarming, dude.
And plus, TSA airport security is also fucking baffling sometimes.
Like, what are we even doing?
It's not real.
It's usually like there's one black dude trying to fuck all the other chicks at work there.
You know, there's like kind of like somebody who's like a man and a woman and isn't telling anybody, you know, because they want to keep it a secret to themselves.
There's one little gay black guy told me he had a small dick one time when I went through there.
Really?
And you can't say anything because if the second you speak up, you're going to jail, yeah.
He goes, oh, it seemed like a smile dick.
And I was like, what?
Did you say that?
And then he acted like he didn't say it.
And I know I heard it because I've never heard that in my life.
You know, I've heard, oh, your dick seems decent, you know, but I've never heard you, oh, yeah, it seemed like a smile dick, you know?
I think that might have been a come on.
Well, I mean, yeah, it could have been.
But it's like, you can't say anything to those people.
And half of them, you know, quit school or used to play basketball with.
And you're like, what the fuck?
They're making nine bucks an hour.
And they're furious.
Some of them want the world to end.
One guy had this anarchist patch on one time on his thing.
I'm like, I know that sign.
It was like this.
So, who knows?
What the fuck?
What airports are you going through, man?
Just local.
I mean, just, you know, sometimes out of Long Beach.
So that could be it.
Long Beach.
You grew up in Louisiana?
Yeah, I grew up in Louisiana.
So I was stoked to hear that you went down to New Orleans, man.
First time I ever been there in my life.
And they would love you there, I feel like.
You would fit in so well.
I liked it.
I liked New Orleans, but you know what?
I actually liked the sort of surrounding area more than New Orleans.
Yeah.
We stopped.
I forget.
There's this long bridge.
It's like 20-mile-long bridge that just sort of like goes right up above the swamp.
Yeah, Chaffalaya Basin, maybe, or maybe like Ponta Train, one or the other.
Chafalaya.
A Chafalaya Basin, yeah.
And we stopped, we stopped, and somebody told us about some restaurant, and we drove to this restaurant, and we got in there, and just as the Zydeco band was warming up, and people are dancing, and it was great.
It was the middle of fucking nowhere.
Yeah.
And they were the nicest people, and the owner comes over.
He's like, I saw you got a van out there.
Where are you guys camping?
And I said, oh, and we haven't decided.
He said, well, you're welcome to stay here.
We've got showers in the back, you know, hook you up.
And, you know, like just super nice people.
Yeah.
Man, it was great.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
So much, like, so, so many times we brand a lot of America as like, you know, racist and angry and all this stuff.
And I don't find a lot of that.
I mean, I find you can find some of that if you're looking for it.
If you're reading articles, you can find a lot of that.
But I find a lot of times when you get out and you spend time with people, that, you know, yeah, they're dealing with some things a lot of times.
And I think we have some overall issues in America that are, you know, historical.
But I find that people are usually fun.
And I don't mean to go broad on that, but Louisiana is a fun place, man.
And the biggest thing they have there is just tourists, you know, any type of tourist.
People want to show you Louisiana.
There's this thing they want you to love it.
Yeah.
There's a lot to love.
I mean, it's an interesting ecosystem, too.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
I mean, you know.
We didn't go out on any boats or anything.
Next time I'm down there, I'd like to do that and go out in the swamps and check it out.
Dude, I'd love to go down there when you get down there sometime, man, just to see if you could, you know, introduce you to some other writers and just hear you guys chat and think.
Yeah, go down with Simon, do a road trip.
It'd be cool, man.
It'd be really cool.
We have two questions that have come in.
Nick, did you have any questions?
You don't have to have any either.
I did notice you don't wear a wedding ring, and I was just wondering if that was like – It's best of both worlds.
I have a cock ring.
Big diamond on it.
It's really to get those kind of sharp, though.
That explains it.
No, I yeah, no, I don't do jewelry.
No.
Yeah.
Right on.
Yeah, I don't have one either, but that's because nobody...
I don't know if it's an old idea.
But I don't know if no one's ever offered me one either.
And I have the worst fingers.
You look at that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I broke this one a couple of years ago.
I'm not sure.
If it would just rattle on there, my finger's so skinny, it would just kind of rattle against the bone.
We have two questions from callers that came in, and one is just, you want to go ahead with one, Nick?
Yeah, here's the first one.
Hey, Phil, you can call me Amy.
I'm from Saudi Arabia.
I have been dealing with depression and anxiety too for maybe seven, eight months.
Probably more, I don't know.
But I can't visit or see a therapist here because, you know, they're very expensive and from what I've heard, they are very bad.
But honestly, I don't know why I'm making this call, but maybe you can give me an advice or something that makes this more bearable because I had suicidal thoughts for quite a while now.
And I still question why would someone keep on going when life is pretty shit?
And it can be very rare here.
So we get calls like this sometimes, you know, Darhal, and we get tons of all types of calls.
And I just thought I would, what would you say to somebody like that that calls, you know, and just.
I'm not.
First thing I'd say is I'm not qualified.
I'm not a clinical psychologist.
Right.
Yeah, and I'm not trying to put any onus on you.
I know that, you know, this isn't, you know, licensed advice or anything.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's very hard because, you know, she said she can't afford a therapist and maybe therapist, I don't know anything about therapy in Saudi Arabia.
So I can't, you know, I don't know anything about the situation, but if she's got suicidal thoughts and extreme anxiety and depression, it's important to talk to somebody.
It's important not to try to go through that alone, I think.
Yeah.
And if she could find a good therapist, what they would be trying to help her do is to first to find the source of these feelings, right?
And whether it's in her family dynamics or, you know, it can be coming from lots of different places.
And then to, once it's identified, to try to reframe it in a way that she feels more of a sense of control.
So I like that.
So she's not as like a victim of it as much as she's a part of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for example, I have a friend in Spain who did his PhD research on psychotherapy assisted with MDMA, which is also known as ecstasy or MOLLI or whatever.
It's very useful in psychotherapy because it reduces the anxiety and the fear of the person who takes it.
So once you've established a rapport with a therapist and then you can take some MDMA and have therapy, it enables the person to talk about a traumatic experience.
So he specializes in working with women who've suffered from sexual trauma and they haven't responded to any other type of therapy.
Wow.
And his success rates are incredible.
Oh, that's dynamite.
Yeah.
And what he's doing with them is, see, the thing about PTSD is that people are afraid to face the experience, the memory.
So it pops up, it comes up in dreams.
It manifests physiologically and digestive issues or skin problems or back pain or lots of different ways.
But like so many other things in life, the only way to get past it is to go through it.
You're never going to run away from it.
You're never going to get away.
So you have to turn and face it, but that's really hard because it's become this giant monster chasing you, you know?
And MDMA can help people turn.
And so they turn and they re-experience this.
They get back into what happened, whether it was the rape or the war trauma or whatever it was.
And they're able to reframe the experience now because they're re-experiencing it, but with a sense of control.
And so from that point on in their lives, they remember it differently.
And it lets some of the air out of the balloon.
It drains some of the power out of the experience.
So getting to this person, we don't know what is the source of these feelings, but it's important not to go through this alone.
So if she can't afford a therapist or can't find a therapist, I hope she'll at least talk about this stuff in depth with a good friend.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think that's a good start, especially like since, you know, it's far away.
I'm sure there are probably friends or someone who can help you find somebody locally.
Yeah, if we find a resource or something that we see, if we can find a general like Saudi Arabia or Middle Eastern resource, then we'll put a couple links up.
You know, you remind me, these days a lot of people are doing therapy online.
So maybe she's not limited to Saudi Arabia.
That's a good point.
If she can call us.
Find someone online.
And if she can listen to the podcast, then we'll put a link up as well, young lady, to see if there's some online opportunities.
We'll see what we can find.
We're not going to promise, but we'll try.
We had one more call that came in that we thought maybe you could be helpful with.
And I know that was general.
I was just thinking, you know, maybe with depression and stuff, but I certainly appreciate you.
Yeah, my wife's a psychiatrist, and she's actually thinking about the reason I know this thing about online is she's thinking about starting to do therapy online because, you know, we live all different places around the world.
Let us know.
We'd love to try and send her some clientele if we, you know.
Who knows?
Yeah, yeah.
It's an interesting world.
We hit him with the off-speed stuff first.
This one's definitely more in your wheelhouse.
Oh, okay.
I'm from California.
I'm a 27-year-old.
I've been struggling with the topic of monogamy.
We're pretty much married.
We have a four-year-old daughter together, but we don't have sex very much or ever is that.
And, you know, I've been hitting the gym.
You know, I've been getting really fit and flexing.
My confidence is kind of getting as many women out there that I'm, you know, I see trying to talk to me and stuff.
And I don't know what to do.
I should just, you know, do my thing, break things easy.
I don't know.
Relationship's kind of broken.
I feel like, you know, we're not really in this relationship together.
It's kind of just there for the kids.
I even brought up the topic of, you know, open relationships.
And part of me was joking, part of me wasn't.
And she gave me the ultimatum of, okay, well, if you want to do that, then does that mean I get to sleep with other dudes?
And that's just his conundrum.
Well.
And yeah, we're not asking anything as specific.
We just thought we would listen to that together.
Yeah, no.
I mean, I feel like he got to the moment of truth there and he stopped.
Like, does it mean she gets to sleep with other dudes?
Because it sounds to me like she's open to the idea.
Right.
So what's the problem?
So at that point, he needs to be, if he believes that for himself, then he should be able to believe that for her as well.
Sure.
Out of respect, even.
Right.
And then be able to voice that.
Right.
And that's probably going to be very scary To do because you're going to have to be vulnerable there.
Right.
But again, look at what, look at this essence of the vulnerability.
What are you afraid of?
You're going to lose the relationship?
Sounds to me like you're pretty much ready to walk away from it anyway.
So, what's he really have to lose?
Right?
Right.
That's a great point.
You know, it's like, yeah, it might feel better to walk away or to cheat because then your ego is protected.
Yeah, you're in control of it.
Yeah, but you're, you're being, you're lying, you know, and you're fucking up your daughter's life.
And you're, you know, so.
And you're going to be living those lies then.
Then you're going to be carrying around lies and you're going to feel like a liar.
And that's not going to make you feel good.
And then you got this little girl growing up with all this anger and distrust and, you know, how's she going to relate to men in the future?
You know, listening to her mom cry and, you know, calling you a liar.
I mean, I think the thing is we forgive ourselves for lying because we think we're avoiding hurting people.
But in the end, we hurt them worse.
And we hurt ourselves because you know when you're living a lie, you know when you're not real.
And being real is always better.
I mean, unless you're a fucking pedophile or something.
And even then, being honest with yourself about what it is you want to do will help you not do it.
Right.
You know?
Wow, man.
I don't think some of the, that's some of the truest stuff I've ever heard, man, that we think when we lie, that we're protecting people or that, but we're actually going to end up hurting them more.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So in that case, I would say, you know, he got to the moment where he raised it with her and she's like, okay, is this a two-way street?
And then he stopped.
Like, if it is a two-way street, then hey, you guys could end up having a great time.
That's true, man.
It could be a four-way street.
Put up a four-way stop sign, you know?
It could become an intersection.
But yeah, I think just being able to be brave in moments of communication is just, you know, it's something that, I mean, I think about all the time that I'm learning about in my own life.
And it's just so great having you here today to help us think about some of this stuff, man, and talk about it.
Yeah, it's super cool, man.
It's super, super cool to have somebody that's able to communicate on a regular man's level.
You know, you don't communicate to me like you're better than me, you know, which probably worse than you if we really did an analysis.
No, but I appreciate it, man.
It makes me feel it doesn't, because sometimes I think a lot of guys feel afraid to, you know, not be smart.
They're afraid to talk to somebody that's smarter than them because that person is just going to push that they're smart and not that they're also human.
And I think that that makes people feel uncomfortable, you know?
Yeah.
But you don't do that.
Or to me, you don't, man.
Well, I'm not that smart.
That's your thing.
Anyway, I don't know what I'm trying to say.
I'm just trying to say thank you.
Well, thank you, man.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And it's also, I mean, to blow some smoke your way, one of the best things that's happened in my life since Sexadon came out is somehow I've gotten to hang out with comedians a lot.
And, you know, it just sort of feels like a natural community.
And I'm sort of like an honorary member somehow.
And I fucking love it.
I love it because it's so, it's like, I was thinking on the drive over here, laughing is like a brain orgasm.
It just happens, you know, it's a physiological reaction you have to something.
Yeah, it is a fascinating moment.
Yeah, it's magical.
I mean, I know you said fuck magic, but I think it's real magic.
It's not a trick, you know?
And what I love about hanging out with you guys is you're so fucking honest.
And I think that's something I didn't realize when I watched comics from a distance on TV or whatever.
It's like, okay, they're performers and it's an act.
But now that I've gotten to know a lot of comedians, I realize that the comedy comes out of courage of being honest with yourself.
And it's really, it's fucking, it's an honor for me to hang out with people like you and Simon and Joe and Brian Callan.
And like, you all have that in common.
You're all like really sincere, thoughtful people.
Yeah.
It's great.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, I think that's a goal.
I think that's, I don't know if it's a goal, but it's something that I do want to be, you know, because I think, you know, when I look back on some of my life, I don't always know if I was that way.
Not because I didn't want to be, but because I had created this other, you know, like you said, this protective world where I don't know who I was, really.
But if you get stuck in that world, you run out of material.
Yes, 100%.
Because the material is in your fears.
That's what's funny.
Only in the last two years, my comedy and my whole life has changed so much.
I think, yeah, and I think some of it is just because I'm just trying to learn more about who I am and just trying to have feelings.
But it's been fascinating, man.
I got into Sex Adawn, and I recommend this book to anybody.
And I don't want anybody to think that we're saying or that I'm saying anyway, that if you're in a healthy, successful marriage or anything like that, that you need to run around on your spouse or anything like that.
If you feel comfortable and you guys are having a good time as far as I'm concerned, go and live your joy, you know, and more power to you.
And I think that there's, you know, there's everybody finds whatever works for them.
But if you're out there and you're uncomfortable, then maybe some of this conversation helped with some of that or made you think about some things.
This book, Sex at Dawn, when I first started reading it, I will listen to it a lot.
But I didn't want to hear it at first.
I shut it off after the beginning because some of it to me felt kind of anti-Christian a little bit, right?
And I'm not judging you or anything, but this was the experience that I had.
But then I thought to myself, well, dude, you're not going to, you know, you can't be an open person if you don't listen to stuff.
And then I listened to it and I loved it.
And I didn't think like it was anti-Christian.
I thought it made me just realize that there's a lot of things in our past and in our lives and in our society and in our evolution that have formed some of the ways that we live now that aren't even choices that I've made, but they're just kind of templates that I've kind of fallen into or that the river of my existence has passed through these certain banks that have always been there.
And it made me just start to think about things more.
And I don't feel any different at the end, but I do feel like I have just more questions and I'm more able to listen to new things.
And this was a fascinating read for me, man.
It was really, really cool, dude.
It opened me up in more ways than I thought.
There's a lot of stuff about masturbation in there.
Yeah, well, it's, look, it's the dark arts, dude.
I'm trying to stay off of it.
Oh, we have the gift for you, too, man.
One of these Ridge wallets.
So these things are dope, dude.
I didn't like mine at first.
Wow.
But I love it.
And I didn't mean to knock your button.
Does it come with money?
There's no money in there?
What kind of wallet is this?
But they're really, really cool, man.
What is that?
It's just a new type of wallet.
So it's like you, so it's just this, basically, right?
But you don't have to keep it in your back pocket anymore and you put it in your front pocket.
Right.
And at first I didn't like it, but three days into it, and I am hooked now.
Nice.
But we have a couple you can choose from one that you like.
Oh, different colors?
Yeah, some different assortments you love to take on with you.
Oh, thank you.
What about the new project that you're working on that you mentioned?
What's that going to be?
That's called Civilized to Death.
And it's sort of an expansion of some of the things that we talked about in Sex at Dawn.
It's a look at how the animal that we evolved to be is sort of out of place in the modern world.
And it gets into some of the stuff I said about distrusting voices that tell you to question your appetites, you know, to not listen to your body.
Because I think basically the story we've been told is that human beings are these horrible monsters and we need society culture to keep us in check so we don't kill each other and rape and pillage.
It's Thomas Hobbes who said that before the state, human life was solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
That's propaganda.
It's wrong.
There's no scientific basis for any of that.
So the book's in a re-examination of what kind of animal is a human being?
What kind of species are we?
And to what extent is civilization a benefit or a detriment to our existence?
Yeah, it's interesting because even when I was listening to Sex at Dawn, I was like, wow, some of the ways from the past we couldn't put onto now, they wouldn't fit.
You know, like if we wanted to live, you know, a lot would have to change if we wanted to live more to possibly what our nature is.
Well, yes and no.
I mean, the way I look at it is we live in an artificial world.
There's no way around that.
With seven and a half billion people on the planet, there's no way we're all going to just be hunter-gatherers or something.
That's not going to happen.
So we live in a zoo, right?
But do you want to live in the San Diego zoo or the Calcutta Zoo?
Yeah.
Right?
Like we can design an artificial environment.
And Calcutta's in India.
Some of our listeners wouldn't know that.
Yeah.
Is it?
Yeah.
And it's a shitty zoo.
Yeah.
It's just cages.
Yeah.
Right.
And most of them are unlocked, too, I bet.
But, you know, you go to the San Diego Zoo and they design the enclosures with an understanding of what kind of animal this is.
They don't just stick them in a cage and, you know, throw some food in there.
Yeah.
So we can design our artificial worlds to replicate the world in which we evolved as a species.
So we can design our relationships.
For example, one of the things that makes people feel really good, as you were commenting earlier with your AA experience, is helping people.
So that's part of our nature.
So if you're feeling depressed and disconnected, one of the best things you can do is just go help people.
Go volunteer somewhere at a hospital, at a clinic, work with animals, work with kids.
Lots of people need help and it'll help you to help them.
So it sounds like, oh, that's Mother Teresa bullshit.
It's not.
That comes from an understanding of what kind of animal Homo sapiens is, right?
That's true.
Sleep is really important.
You're telling yourself you can get by in four hours of sleep a night.
You're full of shit.
You can't.
You're an animal.
You're an animal that needs between seven and nine hours of sleep every night.
That's just the way it is.
Just like you need a certain amount of aerobic exercise to be healthy.
You need a certain diet.
These things can't be ignored.
So understanding what kind of an animal Homo sapiens is is essential for designing a life that's going to be fulfilling.
Yeah, that's fascinating, man.
Yeah, I never wanted to know.
I think we're at a place in history where a lot of people want to start to know more about who we are and get the most out of their life.
I think we've come to the end of the road.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
Dude, I'd love to just have you back sometime and talk about just that.
Yeah, sure.
Because I have a million thoughts on that.
I'd love to get into it.
But is that okay with you?
Sure.
If we do it some other time.
Anytime.
Chris Ryan, thank you so much.
We'll share all your links and everything.
And I'm happy to meet a friend of a friend, man.
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thanks, David.
Now I'm just falling on the breeze.
And I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
I must be corneredstone.
But when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.
I can feel it in my bones.
But it's gonna take a little time for me to set that parking brake and let myself unwind.
Shine that light on me.
I'll sit and tell you my stories.
Shine on me.
And I will find a song I will sing it just for you.
And I've been moving way too fast on the runaway train with a heavy load of my pants.
Bye.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite and welcome to Kite Club, a podcast where I'll be sharing thoughts on things like current events, stand-up stories, and seven ways to pleasure your partner.
The answer may shock you.
Sometimes I'll interview my friends.
Sometimes I won't.
And as always, I'll be joined by the voices in my head.
You have three new voice messages.
A lot of people are talking about Kite Club.
I've been talking about Kite Club for so long, longer than anybody else.
So great.
Hi, Sweet.
Easy to you.
Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club is a dodgy bloody wanker.
John Main.
I'll take a quarter bottle of cheese to add a bit quarry.
Sorry, sir, but our ice cream machine is broken.
I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me.
Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kai Club.
Second rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kai Club.
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