Aug. 3, 2025 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Radio Show Hour 3 – 2025/08/02
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Well, I've been really looking forward to this hour.
My good friend and the man who's responsible for keeping us on the air, the man whose network syndicates the political cesspool has just received a most prestigious award, and not just from us, us giving each other awards, but no, from a preeminent voice in the talk radio industry, Talkers Magazine.
Talkers magazine has just named Sam Bushman, one of the most, one of the top 100 most influential figures in American talk radio.
And in that company, he shares all of the big, you know, with all the big conglomerates.
All the other people are big shots with big conglomerates and whatnot.
Sam is what, there's an old country song called A Ranked Stranger by the Stanley Brothers.
Listen to that.
That's what Sam was, a ranked stranger, and he broke into the big time.
Well, listen, 29 years ago, Sam first went on the air.
We are very proud of the fact that we're on the cusp of our 21st year.
Come October, TPC will have been on the air for 21 years.
But Sam's got eight years on us, and we'll talk about the convergence of our program and his program and getting picked up by this radio network.
But first, let's just welcome him back, Sam Bushman, the owner of the Liberty News Radio Network, which syndicates TPC, the host in his own right of his daily program, Liberty Roundtable.
And let's ask you this question, Sam.
29 years ago, before, long before you got this award, how did you first gain a hold, a foothold in media?
Well, when I was a little kid, I wandered again to my home in the mountains.
Yeah.
Where in youth early, I thought I was happy and free.
I looked for my friends, but I could never find them.
I found they were all ranked strangers to me.
No, I'm just kidding.
All right, there's the little bit of lyrics for you.
The truth is, I was interested in talk radio ever since I was a little kid, James, and about five years old as a blind person.
You know, I was interested in radio, listening to Wolfman Jack, all this kind of stuff.
And I thought that's something I could do.
And my parents looked into radio for me and they're like, forget it, kid.
It's like being a rock star.
You know, you just don't have a chance.
But I also learned from Wolfman Jack and others in the business before me that what it takes is a desire and let that desire never let you give up.
And so, you know, you hear stories about guys pressing their noses against the glass at the radio station.
That's how Wolfman Jack got his start.
He loved soul and funk music and all this kind of stuff.
And he would hang out in the black neighborhoods by the radio station where they played soul music.
And he was this white kid.
And they laughed at him and ignored him and mocked him and everything else.
One day, the old man, someone didn't show up for work, and they're like, bring the kid in here.
Somebody else is like, no way.
Yeah, bring the kid in.
And the rest was history because they brought the kid in.
Well, they brought me in, James, and I've been at radio for almost 30 years now.
And they said that, forget it, kid, you'll never make it.
But now I'm one of the top 100 hosts.
And, you know, I don't have big money backing me.
I just have kind of me.
And I think it's the truth-telling that we focus on that's part of it.
I think it's the scrappy kind of talk radio that we do.
You know, we're not lights and bells and whistles.
We're the real stake, not just the sizzle kind of an idea.
And I think it started there.
I listened to some old talk radio at night one time while I was working on a political campaign.
And I heard this guy on the radio named Jerry Hughes, man.
And Jerry Hughes did a radio program called Washington on Trial.
And I'm like, hey, man, that's my kind of radio.
And that's how I got started, James.
Well, it was more than that, though.
It was, I mean, you got, by the way, folks, I mean, as I think most of you know, if you're listening, a regular listener, I have a weekly or bi-weekly, I mean, the American Free Press publishes twice a month.
Every issue I have a featured QA with an interesting guest on the radio program or whatever.
And Sam is the next one up.
And we talk about some of this because this is a pretty prestigious acknowledgement of his work.
And we share, we bask in the glow of that work because we're on the network.
The best choice we ever made was getting on Liberty Radio.
I'm going to tell that story.
That was a 2009 decision.
And I'll tell that story in a moment.
But Sam, I mean, you talk about how it all to the, I just told the prequel, if you will, to the party, James.
Well, I'm going to tell that in a moment, not quite yet.
But it all started for you in 1996 with KNAK AM 540 in Delta, Utah.
Little did I know it then as a 16-year-old that your decision to purchase that station would somehow impact my life forever.
Yeah, so the story I tell and then a little bit of prequel stuff that you'll hear in the article before owning a radio station.
You know, I started out in sales and these kind of different things trying to get good radio programs on.
And I finally complained about radio and stuff to the wrong guy.
And he's like, why don't you just shut up and buy a radio station then?
If you can do it better than the rest of us, go buy one.
I literally talked my wife into selling our house.
We sold our house and bought a radio station, man.
That's how it started for me.
And again, I'm thinking easy.
1996.
On Learning Nelport, since I'm 16, and now we're all here together, really, as a result of that decision.
But so you buy this small station, this local station in suburban Salt Lake City.
How did your presence grow from there?
So it was a tiny station, believe it or not, out in the middle of nowhere.
But it had 540 as the dial position.
So it went super far.
And you could hear it pretty much all around the state.
You know, people would listen, even though it wasn't great radio, you know, great, it was static and stuff.
But people would listen through it because we had a lot of truth-telling radio on back in the day.
We had on Bill Clinton and a lot of the Clinton scandals, the Arkansas.
And, you know, we talked about a lot of deep state government stuff back then and everything.
We still do, but I'm just saying we got our kind of start with some of that stuff.
And this was a time that Bogue Reitz was basically running for president.
That's how I kind of got started in the political realm.
Bogue Reitz was running for president.
Me and a buddy supported Bo, and my buddy and his brother were kind of the leaders for Bog Reitz in the state of Utah.
And anyway, that's kind of how it all kind of came to be, the political side of things.
But it was hard in radio, though.
There's a lot to learn.
It's expensive.
You learn a lot of hard knocks along the way, James.
Advertisers, you know, if they don't like what you say, they try to control what you say or they drop you like a rock.
And, you know, radio is a tough business, man.
You've got to have some guts to be in it.
It's like wrestling with the hogs, buddy.
Yeah, but I mean, again, you know, to go from buying the small station in Utah in 1996 to growing your national profile.
And then now here, 29 years later in 2025, you're one of the top 100 most influential figures in all of talk radio in this country, according to the Insider publication, this trade magazine.
I'll just nick them the Bible of talk radio, James, just so people understand what Talker's magazine is in the biz, if you will.
It's called the Bible of Talk Radio.
It's not some blog or some random obscure someone who named you to this list.
This is sort of a definitive authority.
It is.
And I went to one of their events.
It was held at a university in New York.
Michael Harrison and his team runs it.
They do a great job.
But I mean, I was there with all the big talk show hosts, though.
Salem talk show hosts and all the big boys, right?
And so this is not a tiny group or anything else.
Talkers magazine has been known for 35 years.
They've been around forever.
In 2010, I made the top 250, so I thought it was good then.
But now, we get to the top 100.
And what it really means to me, James, is a bunch of responsibility.
It's truth-telling that got us here, and it's truth-telling that needs to keep us here.
And I remember along the way, I've learned that a lot of talk show hosts, they'll whip you up into a frenzy.
And the administration and the Republican Party seems to be doing this right now.
They want to get you so mad about all the truth-telling that they're doing, but yet they want to bring you to the brink of the problem, but never a solution.
They never want to bring you to solutions.
They never want to bring you to answers.
They never want to resolve anything.
And that's kind of the problem that I have with the mainstream press: that scenario.
It's like, hey, why don't we hear the solutions?
Why don't we hear the answers?
And I don't mean to be crude, but it just kind of reminds you of a tease girl, right?
They never, you know, finish the job.
Anyway, I'm just saying.
We better drop this.
All I'm bringing up, though, is that's what they do, though, over and over and over, though, is they never let you find a way to solve the problem.
In other words, arrest the criminal.
Even a good TV show at the end, they arrest the bad guys, right?
Come on.
Even a TV show gets it right.
But yet we seem to never get there, James.
Never.
And that's part of the problem that I have.
So we try to push towards solutions on the radio.
Well, that actually gets me to my next question, Sam.
And again, we're going to get to the point where our paths intersected.
You went on the air for the first time in 1996.
TPC went on the air for the first time in 2004.
It was in that year of 2009 that our paths crossed and we joined this network right at, you know, on day one, opening day.
We'll tell the story a little bit later this hour of how that happened.
I mean, we take for granted the fact that because we've been on the air this long, that everybody knows the origin stories.
Everybody knows the full step-by-step progression of how we went from, you know, October 26, 2004 to, you know, August 2nd, 2025.
But they did all the people that never believe it, even, James.
New listeners are certainly not privy to the entire story if you just started listening tonight or a month ago or a year ago or five years ago.
So tonight we sort of reset some of that.
But Sam, the question was: what distinguishes you from other network owners?
I mean, there's a lot of things.
I mean, Keith, you were talking.
I mean, we're sort of like the horses in the cart that Sam is pulling, but in a way.
But, Sam, what distinguishes you from other network owners who were listed in this accompaniment?
We've already mentioned the money difference.
We've already mentioned the truth-telling difference.
Those are big differences, but they pale in comparison to this commitment to the First Amendment that I have.
There's five guarantees in the First Amendment: freedom of the press, freedom to speak as you want to, right?
A redress of grievance, you know, all these different things.
You can say what you want over the show.
Okay, radio falls into all this, right?
I mean, it's the ultimate truth-teller, the ultimate one-to-many.
It's the ultimate original social networking, so to speak, at least in voice and stuff, broadcast journalism and all this.
And the biggest difference I think that really separates me apart is I don't have to agree with you to put you on the air.
See, most of these people want to basically put you on the air, and then they say you're free to do what you want as long as you follow these guidelines.
We call it the Velvet Hammer.
You know, you just make sure you're doing a good job.
We'll continue getting you richer and richer and richer, but don't speak about this and do talk about that.
And don't this and that.
Pretty soon, it's like the Velvet Hammer.
They're praising me and giving me raises while they just beat me to pieces and destroy my credibility and my morality and my integrity and everything else.
That's what the Velvet Hammer in the mainstream press does.
I don't do that.
I don't need to agree with everyone.
Let the views be presented and let Americans decide what they think is right and wrong and good and bad and best and all that kind of stuff.
So I would say the biggest difference in me is that I respect people's First Amendment rights, even if I don't agree with them, James.
We'll go with that.
Well, your commitment to free speech, my friend, has been unflinching, even in the face of steady, almost withering attacks from the so-called mainstream media.
You know, I'll just give you one example here.
And this is a relatively recent profile in Rolling Stone magazine.
I mean, this was a national news item in late 2023, so not too very long ago.
And one of the lines in this particular article reads, and I quote, because of his association with James Edwards, Sam Bushman was flagged in the 2021 letter to Congress by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The letter warned that Bushman and Edwards stand at the nexus of the anti-government and white nationalist movements.
Sam, again, just take a moment and take the floor here to explain to the audience who, again, I take for granted would know all of this about you.
But again, as the weeks and months and years roll by, the audience continues to grow.
And so maybe there are a few people listening who don't.
Explain to them how you respond to these type of attacks in an age when the courage of men so often fails.
Well, so let's read the Sam and James are what?
They had two main pieces, right?
The first one?
Well, I mean, again, this particular line from this very long Rolling Stone piece reads, because of his association with James Edwards, Bushman was flagged in the 2021 letter to Congress by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The letter warned that Bushman and Edwards stand at the nexus of, which is the terminus.
This is the center point, I guess you should say, of all of this, the anti-government and white nationalists.
And I want to stop there, this anti-government idea.
I'm the guy that starts every radio talk show and says our goal is to promote God, family, and country and to protect life, liberty, and property and do so in the tradition of our founding fathers using the checks and balances in the supreme law of our land.
And then I say we reject revolution unless it's a Jesus revolution.
Then we're in because we follow the prince of peace.
You know, this idea that I'm anti-government in any way is an absolute, I'm telling you right now, if Donald Trump won millions over these claims of libel and slander, I should be getting billions.
Because you cannot, we've even had people say that me and Sheriff Richard Mack at the CSPOA are violent.
We've offered $10,000, if anybody can associate us with violent events.
$10,000 is on the bulkhead now, and we're going to raise the number over and over and over, James.
How's that?
Well, James has gone to powder his nose, but he'll be right back.
Let me just tell you that what you have in this network is something that is not duplicated anywhere else in the media.
You basically have taken on the most toxic topics, and you have shown that there's nothing to be afraid of.
In fact, this is the information that everybody has been looking for, the missing link, so to speak.
And I think that your courage in doing this, you know, you knew that you were rowing against the tide on this, and you could have given it up easily and made more money probably just going with the flow, but you didn't and never did.
And we certainly appreciate that.
You've allowed us to do the same thing with our show.
To me, it's about the First Amendment.
Like I say, I believe if people just talk about things, you can think someone's crazy as a loon in what they have to say.
But at the same time, I look at it and say, you know, people have the right to their own opinions.
And if there's a lot of people that believe like someone believes, oftentimes, unless somebody's willing to stand up, the other people that believe that way won't feel like they can stand either.
And so in my mind, what we do is we give these groups the opportunity to stand, the opportunity to say, hey, I agree with that.
I appreciate that leadership.
And that's really where I think that your show, James and Keith, really resonates.
There's a lot of people that believe as you do.
You're not extreme hardcore, but you have no apologies for your positions.
You want to see the South and the South way of life celebrated and supported.
Your focus on God and family and the things that make your lives and your culture great, which I consider to a great degree mine too.
But at the same time, I'm saying you guys stand for that.
And just because of the attacks that you get, you don't seem to flinch in that.
You seem to laugh about it and move on.
And there seems to be a big understanding of that across the country.
And as you can see, over the last 30 years since I've been in the media, 20 years since James has been in the media, I see they used to think we were just insane.
Now they pretty much parrot our lines without even blinking an eye, Keith.
I want to talk about that.
Yeah, I really want to talk about how this whole thing has been.
Actually, we will.
Let's just write down now.
Well, Keith is decked out in his Union Jack polo, his ole Miss hat, and his summer shorts, which is in contrast to my Bob Galio song who likes short shorts.
I don't like short shorts.
Bob wrote that, and that gave birth to his association with Frankie Valley and the four seasons and the rest is a history.
I am wearing my Puma sweatpants and a Ralph Lauren polo shirt, which is all black, right?
Well, it's gray and black, which is of my colors.
You are certainly more blue.
But anyway, Sam, Mr. Blue.
Another good, that's the Fleetwoods.
We could continue to talk about good music.
Always taking advantage to talk about that.
But Sam, this goes back to what you were just mentioning, and we'll talk about it right now.
You are a well-known speaker.
So talk radio host, talk network owner, but also a popular speaker on the conference circuit across the country.
And you have had conferences that have featured everyone from General George Flynn and members of Congress.
I mean, so many Trump administration people.
But you have a signature speech.
One of your two or three signature speeches is entitled, He Who Owns the Media Makes the Rules.
What's that mean, and how does that relate to your work as a network owner?
You know, there used to be a statement back in the day, he who owns the gold makes the rules.
It was kind of a discussion about kings.
I don't care if you're a more powerful king than I am.
If I have the gold, I'm going to make the rules because with my gold, I can own armies and navies and right.
Well, it's the golden rule, but it's also the gold by force to some degree idea, right?
And sadly, that's what we see in the media.
Yeah.
And so the media does that because when you own the media, he who owns the media makes the rules.
When you own the media, you get the last word.
You get the first word.
You get to write the history of the victors.
And so on and so on and so on.
You get to tell the story and, hey, the world is shaped by what you do and say and write and et cetera.
And I learned that early.
I used to get attacked for supporting Bogue Rights.
They said, hey, this guy's crazy.
And how dare you associate with him?
And early on in my career, I started to see these attacks over nothing.
Over, I just liked Bogue Rights because he wanted to get rid of the Federal Reserve and get rid of fake money and return us to gold and silver.
And so I realized then he who owns the media, they're the ones that make the rules.
And that's how that got started.
It's just this idea that, hey, if you want to have something to say, be an owner because no one's going to kick me off of my network.
No one's going to kick me off of my talk show.
No one's going to kick us off Sam's network and thank God for that.
We wouldn't have been anywhere else.
It goes along with the people that I believe in.
It's like, hey, and so I had a big experience in life that taught me this.
A guy cut me off the air one, literally one day.
I did my show the next day.
He said I was off.
I built my radio network in one night because I was so pissed off.
And I just said, you know what, that's never happening to me again.
And I understood that he who owns the media makes the rules.
And so ever since then, even if I'm syndicated on other networks, which there are several networks that carry several of our shows, including TPC, but I digress except to say, I want my network to exist because if anybody else decides they want to kick me off, let them.
I've still got my network and I still make the rules around here, people, because I have the goal.
I'm afraid of your success, Sam.
I really believe it.
And that's, you know, what's the old saying attributed to Voltaire?
If you want to know who rules over you, ask who you're not allowed to criticize.
Well, you don't recognize anyone's ability to keep you from criticizing.
Well, that's the thing about Sam, though.
And I got to say this, folks, for everybody who's ever given us any credit for being courageous or bold or standing our ground.
I mean, yes, that is who we are.
And I appreciate you recognizing that.
But we're only able to stand our ground because somebody above the food chain from our rank is standing his ground and supporting us.
And that man is Sam Bushman.
I mean, and Sam, you've been a part of several historic events.
I mean, your career is pretty amazing.
People sleep on the work that this network is doing.
The access that you and we have been able to accumulate is really unique, especially on the TPC sphere of things.
But I would just say very quickly, we, you, me, were members of the credentialed media.
You broadcast everyday live from Radio Row at the 2016 Republican National Convention.
This is just one example, folks, of what we're talking about here.
And you were in the arena.
And even the liberals loved us until they found out who we were.
I was there with you for every moment.
I was there with you for every day.
We were in the arena when Donald Trump won that nomination to face Hillary Clinton.
We were named by Media Matters as one of the ones, what do they call us, one of the top 20 right-wing media fixtures responsible for it.
And did you hear those folks are on the skids now?
Well, I mean, it couldn't have happened melting down.
They had to lay off 50% of their force.
They're planning to declare bankruptcy and all this kind of stuff.
Like NPR, like NPR, like what was the other one?
Well, MS, MBC, all of them.
CNN, they're all having trouble now.
And the reason they are is because they followed the tried and true, so-called safe formula.
And they basically got the skids knocked out from all of them.
But Sam, on the other hand, we and you and you in particular, Sam, are on the winning side.
You dared to be great, dared to be different.
And guess what?
You caught a wave like the Bates Boys said.
And that's why you're where you are now.
He's sitting on top of the world.
Well, this is it.
So, James, CNN was bringing us water at that event in 2016.
Oh, don't I?
I got the pictures.
And they were bringing us water.
And I literally went over there and said, hey, man, because there was just a couple of CNN guys there just hanging out.
And I'm like, man, can I sit in your booth and get my pictures?
So I got a photo of me sitting in the CNN booth like I'm there basically, you know, key desk guy.
And these guys were just laughing and we had a great time.
But I sat in the CNN booth and everything.
Sam, I've got all those pictures from Cleveland.
And the thing I remember most of the time.
They used to let me sit in the CNN booth.
They let you be on CNN.
Now, what do they say?
Not the same thing that they said when I was appearing as a guest when they introduced me as a conservative talk radio host.
Now it's all white supremacists, this and that.
But I can remember, you know, the one thing I remember most about Cleveland, Sam, in the summer of 2016, when we were there together on Radio Row as credentialed members of the media through the Liberty News Radio Network, your network hot it was.
Oh my God, was it hot?
Oh, it was hot.
There was one wing of that area where all of the media was.
You could hang meat there.
I saw Alan Holmes over there.
I saw Dan.
I got to tell a story about Dan Rather at the Port-a-Potty.
But we got that.
I'll tell the story.
So many stories.
Plenty of total.
Sam taking us to break on his own network.
Stay tuned.
Pursuing Liberty, using the Constitution as our guide.
You're listening to Liberty News Radio.
News this hour from townhall.com.
I'm Jason Walker.
Federal officials opening a probe into Jack Smith, the former special counsel who investigated then-candidate Donald Trump before his re-election.
Here's Bob Agnew.
The Office of Special Counsel, an independent federal agency, has confirmed that Smith is now under investigation on suspicions he engaged in illegal political activity.
Smith was named special counsel to investigate Donald Trump by then Attorney General Mary Garland in November of 2022.
He prosecuted two federal cases against Trump in the lead up to the 2024 presidential election.
The president and his Republican allies, including Senator Tom Cotton, have accused Smith of violating the Hatch Act, a federal law that bans certain public officials from engaging in political activity.
Bob Agnew reporting.
Also at townhall.com, protesters in Thailand demanding the resignation of the prime minister.
Thai's protested for the second time in over a month to denounce their leader, Pai Tong Tan Shinawat, who they say betrayed the nation in a leaked phone conversation with the former Cambodian leader.
The Thai Constitutional Court suspended Shinawat over the call and is deliberating whether to evict her from office permanently.
As the demonstration's drumbeats rang through Bangkok, the memory of the deadly five-day border clash still lingered.
A fragile ceasefire to the worst conflict between Thailand and Cambodia in decades appears to be holding.
I'm Naon Kim.
Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn says blame for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza falls squarely on the back of Hamas.
They're the ones who still hold hostages.
They're the ones who killed innocent Israelis back on October the 7th and they refused to allow these food supplies to make their way to the Palestinians who presumably they are supportive of.
Senator Cornyn speaking this week with the Salem Radio Network.
More on these stories at townhall.com.
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I wandered again to my home in the mountains.
Where a new surly dawn I was happy and free.
I looked for my friends, but I never could find them.
I found they were all ranked strangers to me.
Everybody I met.
Everybody seemed to be a rank stranger.
Seem to be a rank stranger.
No mother.
No mother.
Not a friend could I see.
No strangers here at Liberty News Radio, and we have been a family since 2009.
We will tell that story, how that came to be in the final segment tonight.
But Sam, you know, when we're talking about all the stories we could tell, the story that, you know, I've been to the Hermitage twice.
Once with Pat Buchanan, once with Sam Bushman.
Yeah, I'm not going to tell you which one I enjoyed more.
But no, I couldn't tell you that.
But listen, Sam, that was the first time I ever met you.
You were speaking at an event there in Nashville, and Eddie the Bobader Miller and I picked you up, and we went there.
And man, all the stories over the year.
One of the stories, we were going to the baptism of a mutual friend in Missouri, and the Baskin-Robbins had closed, and Eddie convinced them to open up and give us free ice cream.
He started talking to this girl, and she was like, nope, not going to open it.
Five minutes later, man, the vomiter, she decided, for you, buddy, I'm going to open this thing up.
She couldn't stand the bombing.
So many stories like that over the years.
We have become much more than friends.
I mean, I spent, my wife and I spent an anniversary with Sam and his wife and Branson a couple of years ago.
I'm going back this year to Branson too, buddy.
Ah, now you're making me jealous.
But things like this, we've grown to become much more than that.
Those were so much.
He was on the side of the North, man.
I don't know what was wrong with him, but hang on a minute now.
Wait a minute now.
Wait a minute now.
We all got stuck on the side.
South preacher and started meddling.
Well, tell him what it is.
All right, now we got to talk about it.
It was a battle between the North and the South.
It was a Dolly Parton's whatever dinner and Stampede or whatever.
And we got put on the side of the North.
We don't know how that happened.
We did not do that on purpose, but we got put on the side of the North.
It's what was interesting.
And the North was supposed to shout for their side.
The South was supposed to shout for their side as the horses were coming in and all this kind of stuff.
And me and James were all yelling for the South.
And down in the North, when we were sitting on the North side, it was great.
That was a great.
Hey, Sam, you know, God bless you.
That was such a great day.
I remember that plain as day because it was like a match.
Me and James were just like a sore thumb because we're going, no.
And then we're going, yeah.
And we're the only ones.
We went to, I tell you another thing we went to.
So it was my wife, your wife, me and you.
We went to like this 50s diners.
I mean, you know, we've already, everybody knows how much I love that.
We went to a passion play.
It was wonderful.
I mean, but this is the things: the ties that bind is so much more than just like, you know, he's the network owner.
We're a show.
We're business associates.
We're friends.
No, no, I mean, we're family.
And we've been to these events.
I mean, private events, family events, things like that.
Down together, vacation South Carolina.
We get beat up there, but we're going to go there whenever we can.
We've been there a few times already.
But I even told the Rolling Stone reporter to come with me.
Come on down.
That was a great interview.
He didn't know what to do with that, you know.
Well, it just gets back to this, though.
I mean, all these things, 2016, a big year, because we had the credentials to the RNC, to the inauguration, and everything in between.
But, I mean, you have interviewed between 2016 and now so many Trump circuits, including both of his sons, and much more recently, as recently as just a few months ago, White House press secretary Caroline Levette.
Did you ever feel the pull to go corporate?
I mean, you could do this all the time, Sam.
Just go on.
I know, but listen, listen, I got offered a big radio deal when I was first starting out in radio.
I wasn't even in it very long.
And this guy, his name was Tom Starr.
He's not alive now, but he ran a thing called Talk Radio Network, and they had three, 400 stations.
They were pretty big at the time.
And Tom says, Sam, listen to me.
I was at a National Association of Broadcasters event.
And he says, Sam, listen, I want to talk to you.
I am ready to give you a gig on the radio.
You'll be on a lot of stations.
You'll start to make a lot of money.
But there's one condition.
You got to talk about a lot less about God.
You know, it's just, dude, you speak out about God all the time.
And I get that God's important, but you just can't keep talking so much about God.
The nation cares about God, but they just don't want to hear it all day.
It's not a Bible-thumping broadcast here, Sam.
And he said, I'll give you a couple of days to think about it.
And I said, Tom, and I paused for a second.
I just thought, and I just said, you know what, Tom?
If God's out, I'm out, buddy.
I just, I don't know how to tell you that.
I just, he says, you're going to regret it.
You know, this is your opportunity.
And I said, you know what, I understand all that.
I know what you're saying.
But I also understand that if God's out, I'm out.
I'm just not doing it.
Because I knew that's the velvet hammer.
And right at the start, and if you agree to that, what are you going to agree to later and later and later and later?
And I look at a lot of these talk show hosts that work for the big networks.
And every one of them are independent now because they all got kicked out for one reason or another.
But now they all act like they're truth-tellers.
And then the network.
And my response is, well, what about the truth-telling while you were with that network, so-and-so?
You know, you talk big now, but you didn't say those things then.
You've got this kind of crisis in your career a little bit to where you lied to us for 20 years while you got paid the big bucks, then they kick your butt out, and now you're going to be one of us.
I don't think so.
And so I realized I don't want to be that guy, James.
I just don't.
I won't be that guy.
Well, you're not that guy in any aspect of your life.
And I would just like to mention, you know, again, this has been mentioned before.
You have spoken at every TPC conference we've ever had.
Much more than that.
You've run the sound.
You've hooked up the audio to the house speakers.
I mean, you've just helped in so many different ways.
But the words family man described you to a T, along with your strong Christian beliefs.
I know your wife.
Your wife knows my wife.
We know each other.
You have eight children, eight children and the growing number of grandchildren.
I think that qualifies him as a family man.
I got 10 grandchildren, James.
Well, you know, that changes almost monthly these days.
I'm almost as old as Keith.
Listen, I mean, this is just it, folks.
I mean, if you want us to be able to do that.
This is where we are.
I just got back to run back to the show.
Me and my wife took out my daughter, my youngest daughter.
She graduated from high school.
She's got this boy she likes, and he's leaving to be a missionary for his church.
And so he's leaving here in a couple of days.
And so we just took them out to dinner to have kind of one last hurrah.
And I went to Red Robin, had a big old burger and stuff.
Anyway, I'm just telling you who we say we are on the radio.
It's who we really are, James.
Well, I've seen it, and I've witnessed it, and we've been together since 2009.
We're going to tell that story after the next break.
But it's just been incredible.
And Sam, I mean, what you're back on the show tonight to talk about.
I mean, I guess, you know, the reason for bringing you back on tonight is to talk about the fact that this insider trade magazine, Talkers Magazine, has officially listed you as one of the top 100 most influential figures in talk radio in America, which is to say in talk media in the world, talk radio in the world.
And that is with you pulling the albatross of James Edwards and Keith Alexander and Eddie Miller.
But you've never backed down.
You've never backed down.
And I don't know, you know, I don't know how many people could say the same thing, but I can guarantee you it's the minority.
And that's a fact.
You've never backed down and still yet you have received this honor.
And so I just share in that with you to an extent.
But the good news is honesty is the issue.
And we can sleep at night, James.
We know who our friends are.
We're not going to get big, get rich, get whatever, and turn our back on our friends or any of those kind of things.
We realize who we are.
You know, I mean, I have a bank in my area there, a small bank called Zion's Bank, and they say, we haven't forgotten who keeps us in business.
And they're talking about the small business owner.
And I realize it's we the people.
I don't want any special accolades.
I mean, it's great to know we're taking on the mainstream press like never before.
That kind of stuff's neat to me and good because it shows that we're making a difference.
We see things that we do left and right that they copycat, so we know they're listening.
But at the end of the day, I look at it and say, hey, I want to be authentic.
I want to be who I am.
And I want at the end of the day, my children and grandchildren to be able to say, whether you agree with Sam or not, he was a stand-up guy and he did what he said he'd do and he stuck with it and he betrayed nobody along the way.
Did you ever pause at night, late at night, when the demons come and thought to yourself, you know, guys like Keith Alexander are really bringing me down?
I'll tell you what I really thought at late at night when the tips are down and when things are tough and you wonder how you're going to make payroll or you're going to have to stay on the air or do whatever we do or how do we, what's come to me is I, you know, I've gone to places like Alcatraz before and I've seen what it's like in some of those prisons, you know.
And I'm just telling you, I look at that and I just go, I don't want to be there.
However, here's the question.
Will I be there if I'm honest and right and true in all that I do and I'm there?
It's almost a testament to my integrity.
It's almost a testament to who I am.
And so I look at that and I say, I don't want to go to prison.
I don't think it's a place for me by any stretch of the imagination.
But at the same time, are we going to be men of principal eyes or not?
Or mice.
That's right.
Or not.
James?
Well, I'll tell you this.
We're going to tell the audience the story of how the paths of TPC and Liberty News Radio, James Edwards, Keith Alexander, Ed Al, and Sam Bushman came to cross when we come back.
And we'll ask Sam how he thinks the media landscape is changing when we come.
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It's night and the leaves hanging down and the grass on the ground smelling.
So up the road to the outside of town and the sound of that good gospel.
Since a ragged tent where there ain't no tribe, And the gospel proof.
Telling you everything father's travel and salvation show.
I know the babies and grand the old ladies and everyone goes.
Everyone knows the love of the show.
I don't know how many old-fashioned tent revivals the Jewish Elvis Neil Diamond went to, but I will tell you that he absolutely captures the authentic experience with that song.
We are now in August.
Who did all the production on those scenes?
Come on.
Come on.
Chips Moment at American Studios in Memphis.
I knew you were going to say that, and that's a fact.
And this is, boy, if ever that song was appropriate.
We've had a heat dome over Memphis for like the last two weeks.
It's been 15 degrees heat index, 100% humidity.
It's just pure absolute hell.
When will you move?
For so many reasons we should.
So many reasons we should.
What's the temperature like in Salt Lake?
Yeah, dude.
What's Salt Lake?
It's about 95 degrees today and about 28% humidity, sir.
So that's as contrasting.
You take you 100 degrees and 100.95, and it's a big difference.
And so it's beautiful, sir.
Down in the 60s, upper 60s at night, beautiful.
James couldn't pick cotton up there if he went.
What about in January?
What's it like?
I mean, you're going to be.
It's cold in January if you live where I live.
Well, I like it cold.
I like it.
I like Dixie now.
Utah's Dixie.
St. James.
Dixie Junior College I used to have up there, right?
Yeah, it hardly ever snows down there.
It's delightful.
I might even move there.
You know, it's a great place.
But it gets hot.
No humidity.
All right.
Hey, listen, we're talking to the man right now.
The man who has kept us on the air since 2009.
We went on the air, local station AM 1380, WLRM, on October the 26th of 2004.
And then we got shuffled over to the sister station AM 1600 WMQM, which we're still on.
Dave Brown.
Yes, that's right.
But in 2009, in 2009, we got a call.
Not from Sam Bushman, but from a third party working with Sam Bushman.
And he said, you know, Sam's interested in you coming over to his new network.
It was brand new in 2009, Liberty News Radio.
And, you know, at that point, we had just been picked up a couple of months prior by the Republic Broadcasting Network.
And John Statmiller was the owner then.
He has since passed away.
We still know.
He had the 9 to 12 midnight shift.
It was later.
It was 9 to 12.
That's right.
9 to 12 Central on Saturdays.
And there's still some great people that we know on RBN.
It's a fine network.
We had this opportunity.
For sure.
Absolutely.
We had this opportunity to go to Jeff Rentsch was over there.
Liberty News.
And we met at your law office, Keith, at your boardroom, this great mahogany table.
Me, you, Eddie, Bill Rowland, God rest his soul.
And we weighed the pros and cons in 2009 of switching.
We had just been picked up for syndication by RBN, switching over to this upstart network.
And we said, well, you know, Sam wants us.
And, you know, that counts for something.
I like marriage.
It's not just a matter of who you want.
It's a matter of who wants you.
And so we went over there and the rest is history.
And Sam's 2009 to 2025 has passed in the blink of an eye.
But it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life, Keith Alexander.
And Sam, I love it.
And I'm telling James, and I've told him from the beginning, everything's just getting bigger.
And it got so since 2009.
Then in 16, it blew up even more.
Now it's getting even more, James.
It's getting bigger.
Well, I think you see, folks, why when Sam receives an award for being one of the top 100 people in talk radio, we sort of consider ourselves to share in that.
I mean, or at least bask in his, we cloak ourselves in his glory because, I mean, we've just, I don't know.
I mean, it's just all in the family.
And Sam, you know, again, congratulations to you on this prestigious award.
I mean, talk about some of the other people included in this category.
I don't even know hardly anybody.
John Statmiller was in this category of this too.
John Overt Republic did a good job.
He was a maverick in a lot of ways, but he was a good person, I think, too.
He's the one that tried to fire me in a day, and I built my radio network in one day.
I went on the other next day.
John freaked out and said, I don't have a radio show.
How the hell did you get on the air so fast?
And I said, Dude, I told you not to do that to me.
And now you got a competition and you didn't have to have one.
But, you know, and then he's like, Can I take your show?
I need time to scramble to get a show.
And I said, hell no.
And that was the end of that.
We were kind of loose friends after that.
But I mean, he respected me and I respected him for what we fought for.
But at the same time, sometimes it's difficult when you get these people in a room.
Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
But we've been included now.
The likes of Hannity and all of these other people.
I don't even know who's on AM radio.
But this is the difference, too.
They are big shots.
They go on the air.
They tell the men and women or people what to do and all this stuff.
Many of them don't really know even how to run a radio station.
And one of the unique things about me is I'm as much in the trenches as I am the guy on the air sometimes and stuff like that.
And so, you know, I've got people that work with me that are super knowledgeable about radio as well.
They deserve an incredible kudos, so I don't deserve all the credit.
But I'm saying I'm an engineer guy, though.
When I owned a station, I had to work on that radio station.
And when we do automated radio, the reason I can do it, build one, a radio network overnight and stuff is because, hey, I've got that engineering background, that IT background that most people don't have.
So there's not a lot of people that know the business up and down, top to bottom, satellite to on-air to transmitters to local rate.
But there's a few people that stand independently, you know, and many of them have gone to the big networks, made their millions, and now they're doing that.
Like, look at the Bill O'Reilly's and the Glenn Becks.
And they've still got some syndication, but they're pretty much on their own.
But they got big and had millions before they ever went on their own.
And so it's a different ballgame when you get launched on a bunch of radio stations.
Put me and James on 500 radio stations and you see if we become popular.
I'm telling you right now, we'll take the nation by storm.
So I'm just saying it's that kind of a deal, right?
Well, one last question.
When you got coverage from us, then you've got, who's this clown that had 20 people show up at his event?
What's that guy's name?
Colbert or whatever?
Yeah, yeah.
When Stephen Colbert got canceled, this guy got canned, and then he really had this nationwide, I don't know, protest or whatever.
Literally, 20 people showed up, man.
Me and James at least have 21 listeners, right, James?
Between our kids.
But, Sam, listen, you've got a couple of minutes remaining.
You know, I can remember, well, you remember hell.
I mean, just a couple of months ago in May, Sam, TPC's Will to Power conferences thing.
U.S. congressmen, senators from Europe, members of parliament from Europe, some of our favorite guests.
Hey, I can remember a previous one.
Me and you, another Sam who was on the show in the first hour tonight, Sam Dixon.
Me and you and Sam, me, Sam, and Sam, all traveling in a car in South Carolina.
What was it, last year, the year before last?
Man, it's just, it goes by too fast.
The memories blur, and it's just been wonderful.
But that conference was incredible.
Yeah, we had a designated driver once James got in the car.
The conference in May was incredible.
It couldn't have happened without you and this network.
All I'm telling you is, let me just tell you, though, this is the next stage, though.
James and I are working behind the scenes to go and work on a lot of international projects with some of these people, too.
So, like I say, it keeps getting better from here, James.
If you want to support a winning team, support the work of this radio program and this radio network.
But with Sam, a minute remaining, and that's a fact.
I mean, there are things.
Here's the point: Insider Trade Magazine says Sam's one of the top 100 in the whole industry.
We're part of that.
This is his network.
We're part of it.
Yeah, I'm just an old chunk of coal, man.
Someday, buddy.
No, no, you're the engine.
We're the coal.
But here's the thing: if you want to support a winning team, this is it.
Now, Sam, with a minute remaining, the media landscape is changing.
What trends do you foresee in the next couple of years?
It involves AI, I assume, but we'll give you the final word and what a great show it's been.
It involves AI, no question.
However, AI is not going to replace the great talk show hosts.
Okay, I'm telling you, it's not.
People say I'm crazy, but you'll see.
I think creativity and uniqueness, it's personality-driven.
AI is the most dull personality you've ever seen in your life.
They try to give it personality, and it's almost comical.
The reality is that here's what AI does: AI divides.
Those who are average become pretty good, but those who are great become super great because they don't depend on AI, but they use AI as an appropriate assistant.
I don't need AI to go on the air.
I've got Sam Bushman personality.
I've got spunk.
I've got knowledge.
I've got a pretty good memory.
I've got the who, what, when, where, why of a story I can rock and roll.
What I use AI, though, for is to basically make it to where I can get through that much more news faster.
So I'm up on more topics faster.
I created this little AI bot, and what it does is you run it, and it takes a big old news story from a website, and it just takes out all the garbage, the goop, all the advertisements, and all the fluff, and just gives me the facts, man.
And so, see, when you can do that, you can rifle through thousands of stories and get the deets and get all the details.
And so, you use it as an assistant.
Those who are going to learn to use AI properly and not be afraid of it and embrace it, those who are great or can just be super great.
You're going to see a big difference in those who were average that managed to, you know, hang their shingle out there.
They're going to fail because they're not for real.
And you'll be able to separate the real from the McCoy, the real McCoy by their personalities, by who they are, by what they bring to the table from a skill set, James.
Sam, thank you for your friendship, your support.
Congratulations for being named one of the top 100 most influential figures in American Talk Radio.