Jan. 4, 2025 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to not just another live broadcast of TPC, but to the first one of 2025.
We made it, ladies and gentlemen, and we are kicking off this new year of broadcasting with a bang right now as the legendary Ron Unz makes his debut appearance during this opening hour of our first show of 2025.
And wanting to take full advantage of that time, I'm going to go straight into his most impressive introduction.
His bio, a theoretical physicist by training, Ron Unz serves as the founder and the chairman of UNS.org, a content archiving website providing free access to many hundreds of thousands of articles from prominent periodicals of the last 150 years.
He's also the editor-in-chief of the UNS Review.
From 2007 to 2013, he served as the publisher of the American Conservative magazine and had previously served as the chairman of Wall Street Analytics Incorporated, a financial services software company which he founded in New York City in 1987.
Ron holds, excuse me, an undergraduate and graduate degrees from Harvard University, Cambridge University, and Stanford University, and is a past first-place winner in the Intel Westinghouse Science Talent search.
He was born in Los Angeles in 1961, right before the Beach Boys made it big.
Welcome, Ron Unz.
It's an honor to have you tonight.
Hey, great to be here.
Well, I will tell you that your website, the UNS Review, is an information clearinghouse like none other.
You publish everyone there from my good friends and regular guests, Jared Taylor and Kevin McDonald, to people like Andrew Anglin and everyone in between.
I value all of my guests.
I mean, every guest we've ever interviewed on this program has risked something.
They've accomplished something noteworthy.
They are interesting.
They have something thoughtful to say.
They have skin in the game.
But they don't always.
Well, that too, and they don't always have a background like yours, and considering that most impressive pedigree.
How did you arrive at this terminus?
Well, I mean, I've always been somebody very interested in public policy issues over the decades.
And, you know, again, I'd follow the mainstream media really my entire life.
I mean, it's probably been, oh, really 45 years or so since I've been reading the New York Times.
And, you know, I'd always sort of assume that when you read enough of these different mainstream publications and you apply some logical reasoning, some thought, you can really get a fairly good picture of reality in most issues.
And over the last couple of decades, I really was shocked to discover that's not at all the case.
In fact, you know, a lot of it was obviously the growth of the internet.
I mean, before the internet came along, most of us really were limited to what we saw on television or what we read in newspapers or magazines.
And, you know, if all of them said the same thing, we sort of assumed that that was probably reality.
And, you know, then, I mean, with a lot of the things with the 9-11 attacks, with the Iraq war, with Saddam's weapons of mass destruction not really being there, I started getting more and more suspicious about the picture our media was presenting of the world around us.
And that actually tied in a little bit with that project I had, which was to digitize the old archives of most of America's most influential publications over the last 150 years and make it available on the internet to people.
And when I started going through some of those publications, it was just shocking.
I mean, to see that the world of 50 years ago or 100 years ago, you know, in the newspapers and the magazines of the time, the most prestigious outlets, was so totally different than what I'd imagined it to be based on the classes or the media that I read.
I mean, you know, again, it's very strange when you come across some of the most extremely prominent public intellectuals in America 100 years ago.
I mean, people who published in the most important periodicals we have, and you discover you'd never heard of them in your entire life.
And it's just not one of them, it's many of them.
So, you know, gradually, sorry, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say, pardon the interruption, you have not just brought some of these back to life, breathed life back into some of these publications.
You've also created your own.
You have, of course, nearly a thousand pieces in your own name, your interviews, your writings at Uns Review, in addition to all of these others.
You have an energy level.
Everything's put in there.
And people like Charles Beard and Harry Elmer Barnes, I never knew that.
Exactly.
Those are exactly the sort of names I'm talking about.
Again, I mean, when you read all of these magazines, and, you know, we're talking about the New Republic, the New York Times, the Atlantic Monthly.
I mean, these are, you know, the most prestigious publications in America 100 years ago.
And, I mean, there really was a great purge in American society not long after the great purge in the Soviet Union.
We didn't shoot our intellectuals.
We didn't send them to the Gulag, but we just basically just had them completely blocked from access to the mainstream media.
So after 10 or 20 years, people forgot that they existed.
Harry Elmer Barnes is a perfect example of that.
Or John T. Flynn or so many other figures who've now probably been totally forgotten by almost all of American society.
And when you start going through the historical events back then, you really discover that the perceptions of those events by the people at the time who had the closest connection to them, who saw what was happening, is totally different than the perception you get by reading our newspapers today or taking college classes.
And as you know, of course, perspectives change as time marches on.
And this actually leads me to a question I wanted to ask you.
After our first break in a couple of minutes, I want to come back with three contemporary topics.
The apparent demise of the, what do you want to call it, establishment media, legacy media, controlled media.
I'll get your take on that.
But with regards to perspective, one of the things you've done in your career, we mentioned in your introduction a moment ago, is you were the publisher of the American Conservative.
So you worked with Pat.
I mean, this was what are your memories from those years in the late 2000s and the early years of the previous decade.
It seems a world apart now from where we are in 2025.
Oh, very much so.
In other words, the whole reason I ended up really joining the American Conservative and sort of helping it out financially for a while was obviously the Iraq War.
In other words, I was extremely concerned over our foreign policy and what we were getting ourselves into.
And really, almost all the mainstream media publications back then, left and right, went along with those policies.
And basically, Pat Buchanan's American Conservative was one of the very, very few exceptions.
And I felt it was important that it be maintained, that have as much of a voice as possible.
And so I was really, at that time I was much more heavily involved in my software work.
So I was out in California, and I really only spent typically a few minutes a week checking in with the publications while helping it out a little bit financially as the publisher.
But then probably around 2010 or 2011, with my software project having been more or less completed, I ended up then starting to do a lot of writing of my own.
And really, it was very nice having a venue for my work to appear.
So really, I ended up starting to write quite a number of major articles.
In fact, the series that I've probably been most closely identified with over the last decade or so has been the American Providence series, which basically goes through a lot of historical cases of the last century or so and shows that what people nowadays believe happened is sometimes very, very different than what actually happened.
And the first of those articles called The Our American Providence was actually published in the American Conservative at the time.
I mean, it just went through a lot of these facts that I'd gleaned from the internet, from websites, and from all these publications that I digitized, showing that, you know, what we knew about the Second World War, what we knew about the 1930s, what we knew about the 1920s, what we knew about so many of the other era are really very, very different than what seems to have really happened during that period.
And it's a shocking thing.
I've always been, in many respects, a very sort of mainstream person in my views.
And to suddenly discover such a large fraction of everything you assume to be true your entire adult life was probably false, was probably distorted, was probably fictional.
I mean, that really takes quite a lot of adjusting.
And so, you know, I think that's been true for more and more of us over the last 10 or 20 years.
I mean, we've been discovering that more and more of the things we believed in just didn't happen that way.
Well, you know, Ron, this is Keith.
Your articles on 9-11, on the Kennedy, the John Kennedy assassination, on the Robert Kennedy assassination, on, you know, just all of these things have been real eye-openers to me.
I'm so glad that you've got those things out and about.
The thing that amazes me on our foreign policy is how many of these so-called neoconservatives and whatnot burn incense at the shrine of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers, but none of them seem to have learned anything about what the Founding Fathers thought about our foreign policy.
Well, it's a very, very difficult position we're in right now.
In other words, you know, the neocons, or whatever you want to call that grouping, have essentially taken control over the last 20 or 30 years of both major political parties.
And so it's a very, very difficult position.
In other words, you know, you have someone, for example, like Obama in office who comes in promising to reverse all of George Bush's policies, George W. Bush's policies.
And, you know, he certainly reverses some of them, especially having to do with Holden's.
Pardon this interruption.
We have to take a quick break, but we will be right back and we will continue this conversation on neoconservatism and where that movement stands now in light of the incoming administration and the changes we've seen in the age of Trump.
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Morallaw.org We're back live, ladies and gentlemen, with the great Ron Unz making his debut appearance tonight on the first hour of the first show of 2025.
Reading more from his bio, he has long been deeply interested in public policy issues, and his writings on issues of immigration, race, ethnicity, and social policy have appeared in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Commentary, The Nation, and numerous other publications.
As I told Ron a moment ago, in anticipation of his interview this evening with us, the emails have been coming in.
I'll read just one here from a listener in South Dakota.
Hello, James.
Ron Unz will be a great guest.
I've been reading his website for several years and have seen a set of interviews he did on Iranian media that cover topics ranging from 9-11 to the Holocaust.
He's definitely the real deal when it comes to free speech, and he's one of a handful of anti-Zionist Jews in the media.
Thank you for having him on.
Well, we thank him.
We thank him for coming on.
And Ron, there's three things I want to touch on in this segment very quickly.
But first, I want to, by all means, give you the opportunity to continue your thoughts before the break on neoconservatism.
Well, I was just really saying that, you know, over the last 20 or 30 years, the neocons have taken control of both political parties in America.
So you have, for example, Bush being replaced by Obama, who promises to reverse all of his policies, but he continues a lot of the neoconservative policies.
In other words, he kept Obama's defense secretary.
He kept Bush's defense secretary.
He kept Bush's chairman of the Federal Reserve.
He kept Bush's, I mean, basically, he kept Bush's Treasury Secretary, or really promoted him.
And then you have Trump coming in and bringing in a different group of neocons to replace the Obama neocons.
Biden comes in and brings in the Biden neocons.
And, you know, this time, people really thought Trump's second term would be entirely different.
And maybe it will be.
But, I mean, except for Tulsa Gabbert, most of the other people he's bringing in seem to be very much lined up with the neoconservative foreign policy.
In other words, people thought that Trump would end the Ukraine war, which has been such a disaster for the United States.
But, you know, now there's talk of basically the funding continuing.
And so, you know, it's just very unfortunate that people vote for different candidates, but sometimes tend to get exactly the same policies no matter who wins.
Yeah, it's strange that the neoconservatives have been in power since the Clinton administration and the Clain Bright Memorandum of Wolfowitz and From and others, Douglas Fife.
There doesn't seem to be any deviation between the Republicans and the Democrats.
We always were the biggest cheerleaders for foreign wars we've ever been, and of course the founding fathers were dead set against foreign wars.
Well, we'll see if that we'll see where it goes from here.
I think, you know, we have always taken that position about from George Wallace to Buchanan about the duopoly, but there are some differences now in this age of wokedom.
But I think.
Well, that's just as Wallace had said that the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats or the difference between Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
And of course, you know, we had a great interview with his son a few years back, very eye-opening.
But anyway, I want to ask, these are the three things I want to cover before we hit the bottom of the hour break, Ron.
And I'm going to just read three excerpts, three paragraphs, three different paragraphs, and I'll have you respond to each in turn and get your opinion on this because you're certainly well suited to deliver it.
The first excerpt I'm going to read is this.
The ecosystem of news media has been cracking for two decades, but in 2024 it fully fell apart.
While we've become accustomed to the bloodletting of constant layoffs and legacy newsrooms, and that's still happening, by the way, we're now seeing premium talent ditching their jobs to start podcasts and YouTube channels.
It really is remarkable.
So, Ron, the question to you is, and you've been such a key figure in this.
Our network owner here, Sam Bushman, has said for years, I've heard him give this speech many times, the new media is beginning to take center stage.
The question for you is, was 2024 the year the media fell apart?
Well, I think the media is in terribly sharp decline.
I mean, from what I've heard is, you know, some of these individual podcast channels on YouTube get more traffic than, for example, CNN or MSNBC.
I mean, you know, prime time programming.
Sure, exactly.
So, you know, it's the sort of thing.
I think more and more people are just getting fed up with the tremendous lies that they're being given every day by the mainstream media.
I mean, you know, even if you go back a few years ago, when Trump ran in 2016, he was opposed by probably 99% of the mainstream media.
He was outspent massively by Hillary Clinton, and he still ended up winning because people were so fed up with the established political system.
And now, I mean, the same thing happened this time.
I think probably I doubt that there were more than a tiny handful of major media outlets that supported Trump this time, and he ended up winning a very convincing victory.
I mean, a much wider victory than anybody expected.
Because people basically are so fed up with the established political bureaucracy of both parties.
And, you know, I mean, the one concern I have is that Trump seems to be appointing a lot of people who seem to come very much from that wing, that establishment wing of the Republican Party, which is not what I think a lot of his voters have been hoping for.
He's getting a lot of war hawks in foreign policy positions, too.
Well, that was definitely one of the concerns was that he could push through a war that Kamala Harris never could.
And we'll see if that actually is what plays out or if some of the things that we voted for him to do, like the mass deportations, actually happen.
I mean, I think whatever issues he might have not been perfect on, she was much worse across the board.
So we'll see.
I mean, I certainly voted for him.
But here's another thing.
And it's still, though, I don't think, whatever his shortcomings may be, and they do exist.
There's no doubt about that.
But there are still trends in place now.
And whether he was the inadvertent cause of them or just rolling along on top of the tide with the rest of us, this is the next paragraph I'd love to have your response to.
It was bound to happen.
Pendulums swing, and this pendulum is swinging pretty hard.
DEI programs adopted at C-suite levels at media and entertainment companies are in retreat across the board.
Some executives quit in frustration after concluding there was no real support for prioritizing diversity, while other companies cut departments and positions as part of their broader layoffs.
So have we seen now that a change with that?
Is that a distinction without a difference or is there really a change in those executives?
Well, I don't care about that so much.
Has DEI hit the wall?
Well, I think, I mean, some of the policies proposed were so totally crazy in the aftermath of the Black Lives Matter movement, which, you know, is where a lot of these DII policies were, you know, driven and promoted.
I think there's naturally a swing in the other direction.
You know, it's a question of how strong it is and whether these policies simply are going underground at a lot of these corporations, you know, as they have sometimes in the past.
While the surface features change, maybe the policies still continue.
But I mean, you know, I certainly agree that there's a huge popular backlash against these policies.
And I mean, I think one reason Donald Trump ended up getting re-elected, despite the massive opposition from the establishment of both parties, was the tremendous unpopularity of those policies and the whole wokeness movement.
All right, now let me ask you this.
This would be the last thing I wanted to touch on, and then we're going to transition into a singular topic for the last half of this interview.
So let's look at Elon Musk.
Hard not to mention him for reasons mostly good, but last weekend, a little bit more of a head scratcher, or last week rather.
Elon Musk hijacked British politics this week with the stream of at least 60 Twitter posts or ex-posts since Tuesday attacking Prime Minister Kier Stormer, defending an anti-Islam campaigner and endorsing the far-right reform party.
Now, of course, I'm reading from establishment media organs here.
These are their words, not mine.
But it continues, the right-hand man to America's next president has gone after the leaders of several of its closest allies in recent months, but his fight with the British government is turning into the nastiest yet.
So, you know, Ron, so oftentimes you have people, I don't know if it's just people on the right, because that's the only side I've ever been on, or if this is just human nature.
You're only as good as the last thing you've done.
There's no balance.
There is no, we won't remember all of the things you've done that we like.
It's just the one thing we can find that we didn't like.
And so this thing with the H-1B visas, I mean, that was not a good look for Musk, in my opinion.
But then you have this thing, he's firing off tweets about the rape of white girls by Muslim gangs in the UK.
And it's just, again, I think to an extent, just the trends that are now prevalent.
But do you see this and his influence on the administration, for better or worse?
Is this potentially a realignment taking place?
Or is this just a position in Japan?
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Well, it's hard to say.
I mean, I certainly would agree with some of Musk's positions and probably disagree with some others.
With regard to Keir Stormer, I mean, Stormer is incredibly unpopular in Britain.
I mean, he basically got fewer votes getting re-elected than the previous Labour Party chief had when he lost.
And, you know, again, I mean, the Labour Party is not at all doing well.
It's just that the Conservative Party, the sort of other mainstream opposition party, has totally collapsed.
So Musk seems to be pushing the Reform Party, which is sort of a third new populist party, and trying to get it into orbit where, you know, maybe it would have actually a chance of forming a British government.
But, I mean, in terms of attacking Keir Stormer, I think an awful lot of British people would be cheering Musk on for that, given Stormer's tremendous unpopularity, not only among conservatives, but also among much of his labor base.
I mean, he's basically exactly the sort of establishment Democratic politician, the equivalent of, for example, a Joseph Biden or a Camilla Harris, neither of whom were very popular among Democrats, which is why Harris ended up losing.
All right, so I guess to sum this all up, do you believe that we are currently in the midst of a sea change, or is this just a changing of window dressings?
I think we're heading towards potentially a dramatic change in not only the United States, but I mean in really Western civilization as a whole.
Very good.
What we have done is so reckless and illogical with regard to Russia, with regard to China, with regard to our foreign policy.
And I think our financial base is very fragile right now.
That was a perfect answer to end that segment on.
Are the things, and there are good things happening.
I am the eternal glasses half full so many times that I don't seem to be able to real change.
It's been our history in recent decades.
It's a lot of fool's gold, but I am not so certain, even though all my youthful naivete has been zapped, that there are not good things happening here for real.
We'll be right back with Ron on.
Pursuing Liberty, using the Constitution as our guide.
You're listening to Liberty News Radio.
News this hour from townhall.com.
I'm Jason Walker.
Following a relatively mild December around the country, now winter is coming on with a vengeance.
Temperatures this morning, International Falls, 14 degrees below zero.
Chicago is a little warmer.
Temperatures are only in the lower teens.
Minneapolis, temperatures are right around zero.
So very cold air across parts of the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa.
Pretty typical temperatures for a very cold air mass.
At the moment, not a lot of records up.
Bob Orovac, lead forecaster with the National Weather Service.
A lot of cold air in place across the country.
It's really setting up the potential for a pretty, very impactful storm anywhere from the plains into the lower Missouri Valley, Mississippi Valley, Ohio Valley, and eventually into the East United States over the next several days.
Also, at townhall.com, six-day state funeral has begun in Georgia.
Here in Plains, Georgia, hundreds of people gathered to pay their respects to former President Jimmy Carter here in the small town where he grew up and spent much of his life.
Families waved American flags and handmade signs and watched quietly as the hearse carrying the former president's body passed through his town and headed on towards the family farm where he grew up.
In Plains, Georgia, I'm Cape Payne.
There are a lot of angry people in New York right now.
They wave the big apple and it's going to cost them.
New York's plan to charge drivers an additional fee to enter the center of Manhattan, set to take effect tomorrow.
The goals of what's known as congestion pricing are to reduce gridlock and raise revenue for the region's transit system.
Governor Kathy Hochle saying this week the state is pushing forward with the plan.
That means most motorists can expect an additional $9 charge on their easy pass if they drive into Manhattan's business district.
More on these stories, townhall.com.
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Hey there, TPC family.
This is James Edwards, your host of the Political Cesspool.
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Kicking off this broadcasting year with Ron Umms.
Well, I don't know any other way I would want to do it, Keith Alexander.
I got to give you the opportunity to say this very quickly before we transition here.
When I told you we were having dinner the other night at a little restaurant near the studio before last week's show, and I said, I think Ron Uns might come on the show here pretty soon.
And, well, you were so excited you left twice the tip.
Yeah, you know, you know, that was cataclysmic.
All right, that's a life-changing event for me.
But you are, in fact, well, a well-deserved admirer of our guest here tonight.
And you're not the only one.
Look, he just is in a league by himself, really, in terms of the quality and the actual number of articles, he gets everything is covered there.
Well, I'm going to read from the masthead here: the Uns Review and Alternative Media Selection, a collection of interesting, important, and controversial perspectives largely excluded from the American mainstream media.
I mean, that's putting it quite modest, frankly.
I don't know of any other site that has that much content to offer.
You could vacation there.
He has more content in one day than most podcasts have in a month or two months.
I don't want to embarrass our guests, but I will share this behind-the-scenes story.
So, I probably spent more time at the post office in December than I did at home.
God knows.
And I was coming home from the post office one day last week, and I called Jared, Jared Taylor.
And we were talking, and I just said, Hey, I think Ron Unz is going to come on the show.
And he said, and his voice perked up.
This is Jared, who still to this day has more appearances on this program than any other guest.
He said, He is a national treasure.
He's great.
If you could find an issue that you disagreed with him on, he would still beat you in a debate.
And if you didn't know about an issue, he would make you a true believer.
I can't praise him highly enough.
So, that's the kind of who we're talking to right now.
And he's a guy that we could talk to about a lot of things.
He's run for governor, been a leading advocate both for and against certain ballot initiatives in California, Renaissance man, and absolutely fearless.
He did talk about everything.
Now, everybody knows.
But if you didn't know, we wanted to be sure to tell you.
But all of that being said, Ron, what issues are you currently most interested in?
I understand that you have a pretty big feature under your own name coming up, I believe, on Monday at the UNS Review.
Exactly, exactly.
Now, you know, we're reaching now the fifth anniversary of the COVID epidemic, the global epidemic that probably killed 20, maybe 30 million people.
It shut down the world, it caused gigantic lockdowns across the United States and the rest of the world.
I mean, there are very few events of the last 100 years that probably had so much impact on our society and the rest of the world.
And so, you know, it's just one thing that really surprised me: if you look, for example, the New York Times, I mean, they've had virtually no coverage of the fifth anniversary right now.
The Wall Street Journal has had one story.
But, I mean, we're talking about a very important event.
And, you know, partly because of that anniversary and partly because of, you know, just other things that have recently happened, I've gotten back into that issue.
I mean, for a period of a couple of years, 2020, 2021, much of 2022, that had really been the main issue I'd focused on.
I'd been writing a lot of articles on.
And then, you know, obviously with the Ukraine-Russia conflict, with the Israel-Palestine conflict, you know, I've sort of shifted to other things.
But, I mean, the COVID issue is a very, very important thing that impacted our society.
And what's really shocked me is so many of the true facts of what happened in that epidemic have not gotten out there after five years.
And so, you know, again, a couple of my articles recently dealt with some of those issues.
For example, I'm not sure how many of your guests heard about it, but, you know, the Ukrainians assassinated a top Russian general just a few weeks ago.
I mean, Lieutenant General, three-star general, the man who was in charge of biological warfare defense for Russia.
I mean, a very significant figure.
He was assassinated right outside his Moscow home.
Nothing like that had ever happened during the Cold War.
And a lot of people think one reason he was targeted for death was that after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, his organization had declared that there were a large number of American biolabs right on the Russian border in Ukraine that were developing illegal biological weapons, probably aimed at Russia.
And, you know, that's a very, very dramatic charge to make.
And it turns out, Victoria Newland, one of the leading neocons, when she was testifying before Congress, pretty much admitted that was the fact.
In other words, she admitted the biolabs were there.
She felt that they had very dangerous contents that the Russians might seize.
And so that reinforced the accusations the Russians were making.
Now, what's interesting is later that same year, Kirilov, the Russian general, had declared an even more dramatic charge.
He basically came out in a press conference, and we're talking about Russia's top biological warfare defense general.
He basically declared that he suspected that COVID, the virus that leaked out in Wuhan, was an American biological warfare weapon, a bioweapon that had been used to attack China and other countries around the world.
I mean, that was a very dramatic charge.
Probably 99% of the people in the United States who became aware of what the Russians were saying on that thought that was the craziest thing they'd ever heard of.
But that was actually something that I'd been writing about for more than two years by that point.
I mean, the whole thing is, when the COVID epidemic began in Wuhan in the first few days of January 2020, you know, again, nobody knew what was going on.
A mysterious disease suddenly erupted in this large Chinese city, a city actually larger than New York City, but that very few Westerners had ever heard of.
It's not Shanghai, it's not Beijing.
So, you know, again, city of Wuhan.
And, you know, again, nobody really knew what was going on.
But then as the information started coming out in the mainstream media, but in drips and drabs, in such ways that most people didn't pay attention to it, I became more and more convinced that what had happened was a biological warfare attack, an illegal biological warfare attack by the United States against China.
Now, that's something I think very, very few people in America are aware of.
I mean, at the time, there was a tremendous amount of focus in a lot of the fringe media, right-wing press, even mainstream right-wing press, that COVID might be a Chinese bioweapon that had leaked from the Wuhan lab.
I mean, that was, you know, talk of bioweapons got very much into the air, and there was a lot of discussion of that.
But when you really look at the facts involved, when you check what really happened, I think there's a very good chance it was a biological weapon, it was a bioweapon, but it was an American bioweapon.
What had happened was elements of the Trump administration had launched a biological warfare attack against China, hoping to debilitate what was our largest international global competitor.
And the result ended up spreading around the rest of the world.
Now, you know, again, those are dramatic charges to make, but some of the facts that are not very well known in the United States, I think, strongly reinforce those charges.
First of all, again, the conventional scenario that's accepted by most of the media these days, and certainly virtually all of the conservative media, the anti-China media, is that Wuhan had a biological lab, the Wuhan lab, Wuhan Institute of Virology, and the virus had leaked out of that lab.
The problem is, there's absolutely no evidence of any lab leak at that facility.
In fact, one of the things that happened was there was a Western virologist who was working at the time, a woman named Danielle Anderson from Australia originally.
And she basically was interviewed about a year later and saying that there was absolutely no evidence of COVID having been at the Wuhan lab.
There was no evidence of any sort of lab leak.
There was no evidence of anybody there getting sick.
There was nothing behind any of those intelligence reports.
And so we have suddenly a virus appearing.
Remember, in the early, in the late 2019 and early 2020, America and China were in an intense international confrontation.
In other words, it was a very tense time between the two countries.
And in that time, suddenly, a dangerous, mysterious virus appears in one of the largest cities in China.
Now, a few people, you know, ask, well, what is sort of the evidence that America was involved in that?
Now, it turns out in late, most of the scientists who then looked at the procession of the virus agree that the virus probably first appeared in Wuhan.
Patient Zero was first infected, probably around late October, early November of 2019.
That was when the epidemic actually started, though it took a few weeks for it to become large enough for anybody to notice.
Now, it turns out, in late October, Wuhan was the host to the International Military Games, and there were 300 American military servicemen in those games in the city of Wuhan.
The viral epidemic broke out right after they were there and right after they left.
Now, think to yourself: if 300 Chinese military servicemen were visiting the city of Chicago, and immediately after they left, there was suddenly a mysterious viral epidemic that appeared in that city, Americans would naturally be extremely suspicious of what had happened.
It's like Legionnaire's disease.
Exactly.
Furthermore, when the virus first appeared in Wuhan, the main view on that, oh, sorry, are we going to a break?
Yes, our last break, but I'll tell you what.
When we come back, we're going to turn it right back over to you and let you go uninterrupted until we hit the wall at 8 o'clock Eastern Time.
Ron Unz, folks, by the way, he has got a featured piece coming up on Monday at uns.com.
We'll be right back.
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TheEpicTimes.com One more segment with Ron Unz, and I want to get right back to him on this topic of COVID.
Of course, we all remember those days.
I remember March of 2020.
Ron just mentioned it's coming up on the five-year anniversary now.
It's hard to believe that much time has passed.
I knew when they canceled the NCAA men's basketball tournament, March Madness.
Something was up for sure.
And we covered it during those years, 2020, 2021.
We covered it in terms of our commentary on the media and the government response to this, the mask mandate.
You had to wear your mask at the hostess station at a restaurant, but obviously whatever it was couldn't spread as long as you were sitting down eating.
I went to a theme park during those years, and you had to wear a mask if you were outside, but if you went into a packed restaurant, you could take the mask off as long as you were eating.
It didn't count anyway.
Well, I mean, who knows?
But I mean, the thing is, there was a book written by the Scottish journalist Charles McKay, who lived in the 1800s: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds that kept coming to mind.
But you're hearing Ron Unz talk about it now in a way that we never did cover the origins of it all.
And certainly that was all, I guess, best guess.
In fact, it may be a biological weapon.
Back in 2020, 2021, I mean, you know, everybody had a theory on it, but this is very fascinating and very interesting.
So we're going to give the rest of the time this hour to Ron uninterrupted.
Mr. Uns, it's back to you.
Sure, great.
Now, another example of what I'm talking about is there's something called the Crimson Contagion Exercise.
America's state and federal authorities spent eight months preparing for the hypothetical appearance of a dangerous respiratory virus in China from January to August 2019.
The virus appeared in Wuhan a few weeks later.
So we spent our government spent eight months preparing for the appearance of a virus in China, and then the virus appeared.
I mean, that's exactly the sort of foreknowledge.
And when people hear something like the crimson contagion exercise, it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory.
The way I found out about it is on the front page of the New York Times.
I mean, these facts have all been provided by the media, but nobody connects them.
Here's another example.
In November 2019, after the epidemic ended up hitting the United States very hard, our intelligence services tried to show that they were not the ones who had been asleep at the switch.
And four separate intelligence officers provided ABC News with a leaked fact that our intelligence service, the Defense Intelligence Agency, had published a secret report and distributed it to all our top leaders saying that there was a terrible cataclysmic disease epidemic taking place in the city of Wuhan.
The problem is the report was published in the second week of November before there was an epidemic.
The epidemic, the disease was already circulating in that city, but probably no more than 10 or 20 people were infected.
They were starting to feel a little bit sick in a city of 11 million people.
Nobody in the world could have known that the virus was circulating there except the people responsible.
So in other words, the whole thing is, I think that there's absolutely no chance that Donald Trump himself was aware of what was happening.
But some of his subordinates, I think, simply decided to launch a biowarfare attack against China to try to take down the Chinese regime.
And the blowback from that botched biowarfare attack ended up hitting the United States and the rest of the world.
More than a million Americans died as a result of that botched biowarfare attack.
Let me give you one more example.
And again, this is stuff that everybody knew at the time, but nobody connects it.
Everybody knows that the disease first appeared in the city of Wuhan, China, and then spread throughout the rest of China.
China stamped it out fairly quickly, but it was a touch-and-go thing.
When the disease then started to spread around the rest of the world, you know, naturally it spread to some of the East Asian countries that were right next to China.
It also spread to some places around the world that had very large Chinese populations because a few travelers had come back from China.
But the second epicenter of the COVID outbreak worldwide was Iran.
Iran's holy city of Gum was the second place that the disease appeared and it hit their top leadership.
The top leadership of Iran was infected with COVID right after, two or three weeks after America had assassinated Iran's top military commander.
I mean, the coincidences we're talking about are so absurd that if these facts were widely reported in the mainstream media, everybody would know exactly what had happened.
So, you know, the problem was there was an intense cover-up at the time.
In fact, there was an effort to pretend that the virus was natural.
The virus basically was obviously bioengineered in the laboratory.
There were accusations made that it was bioengineered in a Chinese laboratory in the Wuhan lab.
But the Wuhan lab had no capability of doing that sort of bioengineering, of inserting the fern cleavage site.
And they had absolutely none of the technological skills.
It was clearly an American virus that suddenly appeared in a Chinese city right after 300 American servicemen had visited that city.
So, you know, the number of people probably involved in this attack was extremely small.
We're talking about a rogue operation not involved or authorized by Donald Trump.
But, I mean, basically, that's what happened.
And when we're talking about a virus that then caused years of suffering in the United States, destroyed America's many of America's small businesses, killed more than a million Americans,
forced Americans to go through a year or two of widespread lockdowns, and that it was the result of an element of the American government launching a biowarfare attack that was so badly botched that it hurt the United States more than it hurt the country of China.
I mean, that's the sort of thing that if it became widely known in our society, I think would lead to regime change.
And it's the sort of thing, nothing, the notion of something like this being covered up with tens of millions people dying around the world, with all these simple facts.
I mean, the fact that Iran and China were the two countries America was most hostile towards, and they were the two countries first hit by COVID.
The fact that it appeared in the city of Wuhan right after 300 American servicemen had been there, you know, providing an opportunity for one or two intelligence operatives to be slipped in to spread the virus.
The fact that the Defense Intelligence Agency was aware of the spreading epidemic in the city of Wuhan before anybody in China was aware of it.
Facts like that, I think, make it very clear what really happened.
And, you know, the fact that the American people are not aware of their suffering for five years being caused by an incompetent, incredibly reckless attack against China and Iran by their own government is really just remarkably shocking.
And again, what do you think about the effect on the 2000 election in America?
2020, you mean?
2020 election.
Well, I think it certainly had a major effect.
In other words, I mean, the fact that there were all these lockdowns, all these local disasters, I mean, I think probably it, you know, hurt Trump and caused him probably much more likely to lose than he otherwise would have been.
But, I mean, you know, again, I mean, I think the fact that so many Americans died from COVID, so many Americans suffered from COVID, and nobody right now is willing to look at what really happened is just shocking.
This is the question with a minute remaining.
And I hope we can do this again.
Let me say that before we run out of time.
Thank you so much for coming on with us tonight.
We look forward to the next time already.
But I would ask you this and remind people that at unz.com, you will find his latest piece on this issue.
And I know so many people are interested in it.
So be sure to check that out on Monday.
But Ron, five years after COVID, why is this the issue that is getting your attention right now?
Well, I mean, partly, you know, it's the fact that it never really was finally settled by the media.
And, I mean, it's just, you know, the fact that something this dramatic has been covered up now for five years, successfully covered up despite the overwhelming evidence is just, you know, difficult for somebody to accept.
That's an excellent answer.
Yes, because I think you're right.
Of all the things that Americans had to suffer through, all of the propaganda, all of the, you know, of course, in blue states and in blue enclaves, it was much worse than what we had here in rural red states.
But everybody had to suffer in one way or another.
And then it was just sort of like it never happened.
It just kind of drifted away.
But nobody ever paid the piper for it.
And it had a death count second only to the Spanish flu, basically.
Exactly.
Exactly.
All right.
Well, again, so what are they going to get on Monday?
Oh, well, I'm just coming up with a new article.
Actually, a researcher, an independent researcher, has done quite a lot of, gathered together quite a lot of evidence on the bioengineering of COVID and which particular American scientists were probably involved in producing it, which labs were involved in producing it.
So I'm covering some of that and then recapitulating a lot of the other evidence about how it then jumped from the American lab over to Wuhan, China.
If you go to UNS.com, you can find it on Monday.
And if you go to unz.com, you might not come out.
You will be enamored and you will be lost.
You will be lost in content that proliferates in a way that it does not on really any other site on the web.
And then, of course, his archive.
That's a totally separate project, but not just current news, but the things that he has archived.
Ron, final word to you as the music begins to play.
Oh, well, anyway, great to be here, and I'm glad that a lot of these issues are finally being discovered by the American people after decades of media cover-ups.
Well, we look forward to staying in touch, and thank you again for kicking off 2025 in grand fashion.
We're really going to have to up our game the rest of the way, Keith.
We've got 51 and three quarters, two-thirds weeks left to do something to get past.
I'll tell you what, it's a great way to start it.
And thank you again, Ron.
It's going to be a big year.
I mean, with the incoming administration, a lot of things up in the air, a lot of things that could go well.
It's been a long time since we had hope that some good things could happen, and we've got it now.