May 20, 2017 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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U.S. You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, going across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
All right, folks, third hour of tonight's show, Saturday, May 20th.
I've been working frantically on some of the technical hiccups tonight.
I knew it would happen.
I expected it last week.
I knew all this new equipment, too good to be true.
New studio, it was going to happen.
But that's okay.
We're getting it worked out, and sometimes you have to have trial and error, right?
Oh, I hope everybody enjoyed Richard Spencer, but something really special is about to happen here on the show.
And you know what it is, because I've mentioned it a couple of times already.
But our interview with Drew Lackey, the former police chief of Montgomery, Alabama, during the Swindle Whites era, intimate interactions with Rosa Parks and Michael King, and we're going to get to that.
This is one of three historical interviews, really four that stand out to me.
We interviewed General Harold Moore.
Mel Gibson played his character and We Were Soldiers.
Great interview.
We interviewed survivors of the USS Liberty.
Incredible interview.
But perhaps you've heard them in other places that were, of course, members of the USS ship Liberty that was sunk by Israel or attempted to be sunk by Israel.
Incredible interview, but not unprecedented, nor was the Harold Moore interview unprecedented.
Mel Gibson played him in a movie, so we know his story.
Two interviews really stand out in the historical pantheon of TPC interviews.
One with Godfrey Dulias, the former Luftwaffe pilot.
And I know you're going to say, oh, I knew it.
Y'all were Nazis.
You're Nazis.
You interviewed this guy.
No.
We interviewed a German soldier who was a good man, and he fought for his country.
Captured by the Russians as a POW, suffered horrible savage treatment at the hands of the communists.
Two of the best interviews we've ever done on this show was with Lieutenant Godfrey Dulias, former Luftwaffe fighter pilot.
So proud of those interviews.
But another one was this one that you're about to listen to now.
Recorded in 2008, Bill Rowland spearheaded it.
Drew Lackey on the civil rights era.
Here it is.
Now, the audio is not great, but on a night that we're struggling with our own technical capabilities, perhaps you'll enjoy it.
A little bit fuzzy.
10 years ago, before we had all the new equipment that we've got now.
Anyway, enough.
Drew Lackey, here he is.
And what a treat for me now to be able to introduce our next guest, Officer Drew Lackey.
He ascended up the ranks of the Montgomery City Police Department to the rank of chief.
And Bill, tell us a little bit more about him.
I know you just read his biography, but I feel it only appropriate, you being the one who set up this fabulous interview for us today to welcome him.
You be the one to welcome him to the program.
Well, I say once again, Officer Lackey is the officer in the picture fingerprinting Rosa Parks, the famous picture that is in every public school book and many college texts in this country and has become one of the most famous photographs in the United States.
And certainly, Officer Lackey, we read your extensive and impressive biography over the air just a minute ago.
And so I think everyone knows who you are, but we'd love to welcome you to the show.
We are pleased, honored, and privileged to have you on the air with us.
Officer Lackey, welcome to the Political Cesspool.
Thank you, sir.
It's all to be with you.
Well, As I was saying earlier, the civil rights movement was hardly the saintly march and holy crusade that has been portrayed by the school books and by the media over the years.
And you've written this book, Another View of the Civil Rights Movement.
In brief, what is your view?
What was the view that you had back in the 1960s while the South was being put through the Civil Rights Movement?
Well, my view was that this so-called civil rights movement headed by Martin Luther King was really a force.
He was using the civil rights issue to raise money and further his cause and have the parties and do his womanizing throughout the country.
And in my opinion, he was more interested in tearing America down than he was with the plight of his own people.
Now, Officer Lackey, when Rosa Parks was arrested for violating the segregation laws in Alabama, she did this, as most people know now.
It was an orchestrated and a staged event.
But she refused to give up her seat on the bus, but we don't really know anything about the man who she refused to move for this man.
Who was this man, and why was he trying to take that seat in particular?
I think you mentioned this to us at the convention in Alabama.
Well, he was, I don't have his name, but he was an elderly man and, you know, feeble.
And he, you know, he couldn't stand too good and really needed to sit down.
So she wasn't being bullied, in other words, by somebody trying to provoke her into civil disobedience.
This was a legitimate reason for her to give up her seat to an old man who was obviously at least semi-disabled.
That's correct.
Well, now, let me ask you, before Rosa Parks' arrest, had any city, you know, Montgomery, Birmingham, any city had problems with blacks violating the segregation codes like that?
Or did this just suddenly come out of nowhere?
That is, she suddenly is arrested and this seems to just take fire and all of a sudden it's a big civil rights issue.
Well, to my knowledge, we didn't have any problem.
Now, prior to Rosa Parks' arrest, we had two other women that were arrested for the same violation.
One was arrested in March of 1955, and then the other one was October of 1955, and then Rosa was in December of 1955.
Of course, we all know that she was handpicked.
She was the secretary of the NAACP here in Montgomery.
She had lunch with her attorney, Fred Gray, the day that she was arrested.
And she attended the Commerce school in Tennessee, you know, where Martin Luther attended and Ebenathy and others.
So it was a hand-picked deal from the word go.
Well, of course, other events came out of that.
And as you told us, that actually the picture that's on your book, the famous picture, that that was not taken after her arrest for taking the seat on the bus, but was actually taken because of her participation in the Montgomery bus boycott.
What was she doing to get arrested during that boycott?
Well, we had a long statue books about, you know, boycotting a business or a transportation system.
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Well, it's not every day you get a chance to interview somebody you read about in history books, somebody who was a part of history.
But certainly there was Drew Lackey.
And because the good guys lost in that struggle, you don't read a lot about Drew Lackey, at least not enough.
And you don't read a lot about the people who were on the right side of that struggle unless you're reading negative things about them.
But thankfully, we had the opportunity with this radio show to reach out to Mr. Lackey, Officer Lackey, Chief Lackey, when he was still with us.
And he was on with us in 2008 to talk about his personal dealings with Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, and the Swindle Whites movement.
Let's continue that interview now with Bill Rowland.
And she was one of the nanny people that was involved and indicted for violating the boycott law.
The Deputy Sheriff at Montgomery County, the fingerprint man, he called me and asked me, would I be willing to help him the next day because they had these nanny people coming in, and I agreed to go up and F him, and that's where they took that picture.
Well, I was reading in your book.
It always seemed interesting to me that Martin Luther King and some of the other civil rights activists, some of the other civil rights leaders, seemed to be only one phone call away from the White House or from people like Bobby Kennedy.
It seemed that they had access to the highest offices of power when they needed it.
And yet in the South, we were struggling against riots and violence caused by these people.
What is your opinion on that?
Why do you think they had such ready access to John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and Bobby Kennedy?
Well, in my opinion, they were helping back this movement.
And you're correct.
They had to reg land to Bobby Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and President Kennedy.
During the Freedom Rider episode that happened in Montgomery, I picked up John Siegenthaler out of the street and the hospital about two blocks away and got him to the hospital.
And he immediately called Bobby Kennedy at Hyannisport.
And he had a list in his pocket of all the Freedom Riders that was on that bus.
So They were Bobby Kennedy and them were behind it, helped sponsor it and see that it was, you know, followed up.
Well, Officer Lackey, it's again to reiterate what an honor it is to be able to talk with you today.
This is, again, Bill, and for everyone listening around the world today to our broadcast, the ability to speak with someone who was a first-hand witness of this history in the making is an opportunity very rarely afforded to anyone, particularly of historical, an aspect of history that's so important.
And Officer Lackey, I want to ask you about some of the media propaganda of the time.
And I know you mentioned this in your book.
I had the opportunity to, of course, buy this book from you in person in Alabama a couple of weeks ago.
I have read it.
And you address in your book many things surrounding the so-called civil rights movement, but one of which I always thought was so incredible was the fact that the so-called civil right activists were the ones that were the peaceful demonstrators.
And then, you know, according to the network news footage of the time, these peaceful black activists would come into town and the mean-spirited police officers would unleash the hounds and the water hoses and everything else on them.
Is that the way it was?
Or was the truth of the matter a little bit differently than what people would have seen on television?
Well, it was a lot different than what you've seen on television.
I mean, this civil rights movement attracted every black criminal that you can think of, revolutionaries and every thug that you would come in contact with.
And they would curse the police, spit on the police, do everything they could to try to incite a riot.
And see, Martin Luther King, he used what I call the big lie technique.
He'd go around saying he was preaching non-violence, but violence followed him everywhere he went.
Now, you've never heard of King ever chastising any of you rioters and looters that happened all over this country.
And I can't find anywhere in the Constitution that gives these people the right to burn loot and do the things that they did and be protected under the so-called civil rights banner.
Officer Lackey, excellent answer, by the way, and that is, of course, how I knew it to be, stock footage notwithstanding.
But were you and the entire city of Montgomery Police Department, was there a very real threat that these activists, so to speak, would burn down the city?
I mean, do you think that was their intention, and would they have gotten away with it if you had not acted accordingly?
That was their intention to come in and burn the town down.
Now, I believe if we hadn't took the action that we did, this would have happened.
But we Decided that we took an oath to protect the land and property of this city and use that force necessary.
Now, it was unfortunate that we killed a couple of arsenists that were teenagers.
But we had no way of knowing their age.
One of them was 16, one 17.
After that happened, we got a lot of calls that they were going to come in by the bus load and burn the town down.
And, of course, I let them know that we're going to use that force necessary to protect our city.
And that they could leave like those other two in a box.
Well, now, Officer Lack, I noticed in your book, you talk also about not only the arrests of troublemakers in the civil rights movement, but also Klansmen and other troublemakers who were opposing integration and opposing the civil rights movement.
And that doesn't seem to be covered very much by the history books or by the media either, that you were not partial when it came to stopping lawbreakers.
No, that is correct.
The news media didn't give us hardly any coverage on that.
And we had to make some arrests of Klansmen, you know.
Our job was to keep law and order, and we couldn't pick and choose, you know.
Now we've got very little coverage, you know, in regards to that.
Well, tell us a little bit about the Freedom Riders, who they were, where they came from, and some of their behaviors while they were under your jurisdiction or on your watch.
Hey, folks, we're going to pause it right there.
We will let Bill Rowland ask that question of true lack of both heaven tonight.
What an interview.
What an interview.
And so great to have Bill Rowland back with us for one night only.
We'll be right back.
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Hey, folks, I want you to ask yourself something.
I want you to be honest.
What other radio shows in the world are you going to hear an interview like this?
Nowhere, that's where.
That's why the political cesspool is the political cesspool, and that's why we do what we do, and that's why you're tuned into us tonight.
An interview with a historical figure like this.
I know he's not Robert E. Lee, and I know he's not Nathan Record Forrest, and he's not all of these other people, but still pretty significant.
And he was right there in Alabama, which was in many cases, of course, the heart of the rancor of that era.
And he was there with the major players.
He was a part of it, an integral part of it.
Police Chief of Montgomery, Alabama, that era?
And I just had to say again, what a privilege it is to hear the voice of my brother, Bill Rowland, tonight on the radio to be able to bring him back on the air.
You know, our broadcast archives are littered with these treasures.
They're not all like this.
They're all good.
And he was a part of so many of those shows.
Great to hear him.
Great to get him out to a worldwide audience tonight here on the Liberty News Radio Network.
Bill Rowland in this interview with Officer Drew Lackey, later became Chief Lackey of Montgomery Police Department.
Let's continue that now.
Well, tell us a little bit about the Freedom Riders, who they were, where they came from, and some of their behaviors while they were under your jurisdiction or on your watch.
What was the Freedom Rider, you know, the whole Freedom Rider situation?
When they came to town, what did you discover about them?
Well, they were very belligerent, and It was apparent that they were, you know, they were looking for to have some conflict with the police or with other people.
They were, you know, their mannerisms and their speech and everything indicated that they, you know, wanted to stir up a conflict.
See, King, this is one of his tactics that I think he trained his people to do, was to have these conflicts between the police and the demonstrators or civil rights people and so forth.
And then when it was all over, he's going to blame the police for causing the riot.
Then he would charge police brutality when you put the riot down or brought order back to the city.
Yeah, this was his favorite police brutality.
And if you followed the, go back to Fidel Castro down in Cuba.
He started using the same technique in Cuba when the Communists were taking over Cuba.
And of course, Martin Luther King was knee-deep with the Communist Party.
They came into Montgomery.
We knew who they were when they came in.
And we usually put a tail on them, followed them, and then we did have some luck with the black leadership talking to them about getting these people out of Montgomery.
They weren't there to help them, you know.
Well, you actually met with Martin Luther King at one point, didn't you, about coordinating security or trying to prevent some of these problems?
Yeah, I had a meeting with him and had a friend of mine over at the black pharmacist and he set up a meeting and discussed with King, you know, some things that we needed to do and he needed to do.
And at first he turned down any security for months.
And then he, of course, he changed his mind before I left.
And I told him we could like to give him security.
We couldn't guarantee 100%, but we could cut down the odds on it.
And he admitted that he could not control, you know, all of his people.
He had some people in there that was going to get out of land and so forth.
And he said, I just, you know, I can't control all my people.
Well, I see here you have a copy of a newspaper article from that time where, you know, Martin Luther King, who was preaching peace and nonviolence, actually tried to get a permit for a gun.
Yeah, yeah, he tried to get a permit for a pistol and He was turned down.
And, you know, the so-called peaceful movement was not what it was cracked up to be.
I mean, these people were out to stir up trouble.
And this is the way that he got the sympathizers and money coming into his organization was having conflict.
They'd even, when they'd be marching on our streets, sidewalks, the males would break off sometime and go relieve his shift on a white person's lawn.
That sounds about right.
That ain't, you know, I mean, that's trying to have a conflict there.
You know, if it was my house, I'd be coming out of there with a shotgun.
Well, most normal people would.
And is this what led you, Officer Lackey, to write your book?
You know, we were talking earlier about another historical aspect and the importance that books and eyewitness testimony play.
Is this what you wanted people to understand?
Well, let me rephrase the question and ask it in this manner.
Why is it important to you that 60 years after the fact people understand the truth about the civil rights movement?
Let me ask you that way.
Well, after I retired from the police department, I went to work with the state and put in 30 years there.
But to read and hear these people talking about, you know, how great King was and all this stuff and not have any negative stuff printed against him, I decided it's time to unveil.
But yours is more than just, and it's so well written and it's an easy read and it's just chalk full of important historical eyewitness testimony.
But much more than the propaganda that one would read about King, yours is an actual factual document, am I right?
That is right.
That is correct.
And you see, Correct King had those FBI files and tapes sealed to 2027.
And Bill, I'll ask this to you and Officer Lackey.
Do you think that in 2027 they'll even be released?
I don't think they will.
I've tried to get in there and have them released, and I hadn't had any luck on that, and I don't think they will be released.
If we can get them released now, you could see a lot of these politicians running for cover.
Oh, a lot of the politicians would run for cover.
Well, the standard excuse for not releasing the files on King was that it would ruin his reputation.
I think that's what Coretta Scott King said when she testified before Congress about doing that, sealing the records.
But you say that many politicians would run for cover, too.
Oh, yeah, these politicians, these liberal politicians and the liberal news media, they flock to him and He more or less had them eating out of his hand.
You know what I mean?
It's sickening when you see it happen that these politicians are running over each other to try to get to him and, you know, do their thing.
And every year, when they have that march across Edmonton Fettus Bridge, you'll see them.
Hey, one more time, we're going to play the conclusion of our interview about their Drew Lackey.
Isn't this amazing?
How about this history, the real history, compared to what you're told, the lies you're told?
We're setting the record straight on TV.
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You know, folks, it's hard to believe that it's been nine years since Bill Rowland and I conducted this interview with the officers seen in that iconic photograph, Fingerprinting Rose Park, hooked Martin Luther King.
You know who we're talking about, Officer Drew Lackey of the Montgomery Police Department.
Seems like it was just yesterday.
I guess the point is, we've been doing this for a long time.
We've been doing it well for a long time.
Consistent quality content for 13 years.
And what you're hearing tonight, folks, is a historical interview where you're hearing the real history of what happened by the people who made the history versus what you read in the textbooks today.
And isn't it interesting to hear Officer Lackey explain the tactics that were used by the thugs in that era?
Very similar to the tactics used by the Black Lives Matter thugs today.
I wonder why that is.
And then, of course, again, to hear the immortal Bill Rowland.
The immortal Bill Rowland, once again, on the political cesspool, still doing the work.
Still doing the work.
Let's listen to the end of that interview right now.
This is the guy.
This is the guy.
The only individual American to have his own holiday.
Absolutely abominable, Bill.
I mean, can you believe it?
I mean, you know, people liken him to Jesus Christ himself.
And it's just to hear this.
I mean, I knew all of this to be true before Officer Lackey came on, but to hear this first-hand accounting of a man who was a very high-ranking police officer in one of the most integral cities of the Civil Rights Movement, Montgomery, Alabama.
Reconfirming this with his own eyewitness testimony.
Well, what can you say?
What was the worst day for you, Officer Lackey, during the Civil Rights Movement?
What day do you recall as being the most frightening or the most disturbing from a policeman's point of view?
This particular day that I recall, Abba Nancy and had organized a group and they were meeting at King's Church.
King wasn't there.
And they were going to march from his church to the Capitol.
And they'd already given, put this out, you know, the news media and everything.
And when I arrived at the capital, the white people were all over the lawn and everything else up there at the Capitol.
It's probably at least, oh, I'd say 10 or 12,000 whites in that particular neighborhood of the Capitol Complex buildings.
It was on the lawn ground there.
And I sent some plane clothes officers to, you know, check it out.
And the majority of them in there were loaded.
It was a kind of a cool day and they had on overcoats.
And they had shotguns, pistols, you name it.
I mean, it was Arsenal there on the ground.
I called Abernathy out of the church to talk to him personally and showed him what he was up against, what we were up against.
And I said, well, ain't no way that we can give you protection with all these people in the arm like they are.
And I'm going to ask you to call off the march.
And he said, no, we had this plan, and we're going through with it.
Of course, the national news media was there, you know, the cover of a thing because they had, you know, announced this thing several days prior to.
So they come out of the church, started across a street there, Decatur Street, toward the Capitol.
And when they did, all these white people started rushing down.
So I called my men to put them back in the church.
And so we made them, made Abernathy and all his group get back in the church.
And then I told him I would let them leave there maybe six to eight at a time and give them the streets they were to walk down so we could furnish protection.
But that was a close call there because we could have had a bloodbath right there very, very easily.
And of course, Montgomery really was a powder keg, I call it, for some time the least little spark could have set it off.
So we had to really stay on our toes trying to keep the lid on it.
Well, did the white crowd disperse once the civil rights marchers were out of sight and removed from the scene?
Did you have any trouble with them after that?
No, they started dispersing.
They didn't throw bags of feces on you or spit on you or anything like that, I guess.
No, we didn't have any of that.
But when that whole group started coming down, I knew we were in trouble unless we did something quick.
So you saved Abernathy's life in all likelihood and those marchers?
Yeah.
But they never expressed any appreciation for that, I suppose.
Oh, no.
No, they don't ever.
Excellent question.
They don't ever spress any appreciation for anything you do.
You know, it's good.
Well, I think it's certainly apparent that you did your duty, Officer Lackey, during those very difficult and incendiary times, those very difficult and violent times.
You really showed integrity and a spirit of righteousness, of being just righteousness.
So we're going to, let me mention that the name of your book again is Another View of the Civil Rights Movement by Officer Drew H. Lackey.
And we have the address where people can, I guess, mail you a check or money order for a copy of the book.
Yeah.
That's DNP Associates, and it's boxed 24-1114, Montgomery, Alabama, 36124.
And we'll put this on our website also.
It actually already is, Bill.
And Officer Lackey, if you don't mind me interjecting here, the price of this book, Another View of the Civil Rights Movement, it's written the personal memoir of our guest who you've been listening to on the air live this afternoon, Officer Drew H. Lackey.
$19.95 sent to that address.
We'll get you the book.
That's $4 shipping in half.
$49.59.
It's $15 plus $4.95, total of $19.95.
I'm sorry, you're right.
And we actually have, I know Bill was reading the mailing address, but that is available and is posted on our website, thepoliticalcesspool.org.
If you want to get a copy of this book, send a check for that amount to that address, and you can get that address.
It's right there in front of you at thepoliticalcesspool.org.
Just go to our news and commentary blog, and it's there in an entry that provides the links for the different websites we've discussed on today's program.
And Officer Lackey will personally send that to you.
Officer Lackey, thank you for being a true American hero.
And I believe, Bill, that's what he is.
Absolutely.
An unsung hero.
An unsung hero we hope that history will recognize in the future.
And Officer Lackey, any final comments before we say goodnight to you?
No, I just appreciate the opportunity to be on your program and, you know, expose a king for what he was.
We'd love to have you back on again sometime.
Would you come back at another time to talk to us again?
I would do it.
Be glad to do it.
Well, it certainly has been a pleasure for us and an honor as well.
And Officer Lackey, all the best on your book sales, and we'll do everything we can to send some sales your way.
And we'll talk to you about other ways to promote the book.
So perhaps this book will be in every classroom in the country one day and not just the favorable texts that appear about the civil rights movement.
I certainly hope so.
Thanks again, Officer Lackey.
Okay, thank you.
Have a great afternoon, sir.
Hey, folks, that's the Political Successful at its bias.
Difficult still to listen to Bill, even in these years after his passing.
What a mentor, what a counselor, what a friend, what a warrior he was in his life, taken far too early by cancer.
But those of you who've listened to this show for a long time will, of course, remember Bill and his contributions.
A better host never existed, far better than me.
And I love him and I miss him, and it's great to hear him tonight.
And great to hear Drew Lackey tonight.
Again, Drew Lackey passed away late last year, although I just found out about it a few days ago.
And upon finding out about that, I wanted to revisit that interview.
And I hope you enjoyed it.
Let me know.
We'll be back with you next week, everybody.
For the rest of my staff and crew, I'm Dennis Edwards.