Oct. 19, 2013 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the political cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, going across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Welcome back to the show, everybody.
James Edwards and Eddie the Bombardier Miller in studio tonight, our flagship station here in Memphis, Tennessee, going out to the AM FM affiliates of the Liberty News Radio Network, also simulcasting online to our ever-growing worldwide audience.
And on the Roku player and the unlimited listen line as well, you can turn any phone into a radio, however you are tuned in this evening.
Welcome October 19th, one week shy of our ninth anniversary as a radio broadcast.
And it is with great excitement that I welcome our first guest of the evening, a man who is coming on to talk about an issue that I am very passionate about.
His name is John Allen.
His book, The Global War on Christians.
And in this book, Mr. Allen uses his unparalleled knowledge and insight to bring to light this growing epidemic.
Inspired by his own personal experiences, John Allen sets out to tell the stories of a new generation of Christian martyrs.
And I'm so glad that he is.
It's great to see a modern-day Christian soldier.
Mr. Allen, welcome to the broadcast.
Well, it's a pleasure to be on your show.
How are you tonight?
I'm doing great.
Even better that we have you on.
And I truly mean that because that's the truth.
You know, I grew up in church.
I take matters of faith very seriously, and especially this time of year as we begin to itch a little bit closer to Christmas.
And, you know, that's just one of the fronts that we find ourselves, frankly, retreating from.
The war against Christmas and certainly the war on Christians in general.
So this is right up our alley.
What can you tell us about the book?
What prompted you to write it?
Well, I tell you, my day job is covering the Vatican and covering the Pope, which I do for my newspaper, The National Catholic Reporter, and also for CNN.
And in that capacity, over the years, I've followed the Pope around to various parts of the world and when popes will make foreign trips.
And virtually everywhere I've gone for the last 20 years, I found myself meeting people who were the victims of Christian persecution.
That is, whose churches had been bombed, whose schools had been destroyed, who had lost family members, who had themselves been imprisoned in some cases for decades for their faith.
And at first, it struck me that these were tragic but exceptional stories.
But the more I moved around, the more I began to sense that there was a pattern here.
And so that sort of prompted me to step back and try to run some of the numbers.
And what I discovered in the course of my research is that anti-Christian violence and anti-Christian hatred is a truly global pandemic.
I mean, just to give you one statistical window, the low-end estimate for the number of Christians killed for their faith every year in this world is around 9,000.
The high-end is around 100,000, which works out to somewhere between 1 and 11 Christians being martyred every hour of every day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
I mean, it is truly staggering.
All right.
Those are cold, hard facts that you have drawn as a result of intensive research.
And I'm actually reading from some of your notes right now.
It reads, as the recipients of a rising tide of legal oppression, social harassment, and direct physical violence, 21st century Christians have become the world's most persecuted religious group.
Now, I believe that to be true.
Your facts back that up.
Let me ask you this.
Why are we not seeing documentaries and reports in the mainstream media decrying that?
Well, that's a great question.
And I mean, there are, of course, individual examples of people attempting to shine a spotlight in this.
But in the main, your question is right in the money.
Our media does not cover this the same way we cover oppression of other minorities.
I think explaining why is complicated, but I think one central factor is that it flies in the face of the narrative.
I mean, listen, you and I are both media people.
We know the power of narratives in influencing how the media covers stories.
And the narrative about Christianity in the West is that it is this big, rich, powerful, politically influential institution, which makes it hard for most people to get their minds around the idea that Christians could actually be the victims of persecution.
Problem with that narrative is that it's outdated and has been for a long time.
I mean, look, there are 2.3 billion Christians in the world today, two-thirds of whom live outside the West.
That is, they live in Africa, Latin America, Asia, the Middle East.
It's some pretty dangerous neighborhoods.
Most of them are poor.
A majority of them are women.
Most of them are members of ethnic, linguistic, and cultural minorities, which means they're kind of doubly and triply at risk.
I mean, Christians today are the single minority group in the world most likely to be in the firing line, and that's the narrative that we've got to promote about who Christians today are.
You know, John Eddie Miller right here with co-hosts of Political Success Pool.
Have you ever been to Israel?
I've never been.
I just wonder if you've been there.
I have, yes.
Now, is it true that Christians can be persecuted and even, you know, fired or imprisoned if they are testifying to the Lord Jesus Christ in the streets of Israel?
I've been told that some people, but I've never been there.
Have you ever witnessed anything like that?
Well, it's not true that in Israel, merely talking about your Christian beliefs is ground for imprisonment.
There are some countries where that's true, by the way.
North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Eritrea, and others.
But in Israel, as a matter of law, Israel respects religious freedom.
And actually, they have a growing Christian population in Israel because you've got a lot of Christians from the former Soviet sphere who have immigrated to Israel in recent years.
The problem, really, is if you are both Arab and Christian in Israel, then you are kind of doubly a second-class citizen.
And Israeli security policy makes Christian life very difficult.
I mean, for example, there are thousands of Christian families that are split between the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
And residency permits and travel permits and so forth make it impossible for normal family life to take place.
It's also the case that if you're a Christian in the West Bank, you can't get to East Jerusalem quite often to take place in Holy Week celebrations and so on.
So listen, there are problems for Christians in Israel, but I think they probably, in the main, pale in comparison to the kind of problems that Christians face in many other countries.
You know, I go to, John, I go to what would be considered a conservative fundamental Christian church.
It's a Baptist church here in Memphis, Tennessee.
And, you know, I'll just put this bluntly.
I've seen the gnashing of teeth and the wringing of hands since 2009, since I became a Christian, has been in this Baptist church.
And I love the church.
But they're just an all-out, disproportional concern for Israel.
They'll say it.
Oh, you know, people, they never said a word.
Once in a blue moon, you'll hear somebody voice a concern of what's going on in the United States.
Maybe Christians being persecuted.
I can't think of one single case in my church where people, anyone in our church, has voiced a concern for Christians being persecuted anywhere.
It's always this outcry, we've got to protect Israel.
We have to protect Israel.
And that just baffles me because, just like you said, we're here in the political suspect.
We've been not as aware as you are because you've done the research.
But anywhere you go in the world, Christians are forever being tormented.
They're being killed.
But I don't hear that about the Jewish population or even the Muslim population.
Well, I think the question, Mr. Allen, would be, why don't Christians take more of an interest in their own persecution here in America?
We'll let you think about that.
And when we come back, we're going to talk more about the book and most importantly, how people can get a copy of it.
Stay tuned, folks.
More with John Allen right after this.
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And now, back to tonight's show.
All right, welcome back.
Our first featured guest of the evening, Mr. John Allen.
Let me remind you folks that this man is the senior Vatican correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter and a Vatican analyst, or analyst rather, for CNN and National Public Radio.
He has several books, including the one he is promoting this evening on the radio program.
His internet column, All Things Catholic, is considered to be the single best source of insights on Vatican affairs in the English language.
Mr. Allen, I think what Eddie was trying to ask in roundabout way before the last break is why aren't Christians in America more concerned about the persecution that their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ are facing around the world?
Well, it's a great question, and I can give you explanations.
I can't give you excuses.
But I think one explanation is that the United States, we Christians, are in the historically fairly unique and very blessed circumstance that we may have our problems.
I mean, we've got church-state battles, and we've got a government that seems increasingly hostile to religious freedom sometimes and so on.
But we do not live in a society in which we have to take our life in our hands every time we go to church.
I mean, nobody's shooting at us for the most part.
I mean, listen, I mean, I'm a great example.
I grew up Catholic out in the high plains of western Kansas.
My idea of suffering for the faith was eating fish sticks and macaroni and cheese on Fridays during Lent.
You know, I mean, that's as close as I ever got to carrying the cross.
And I think, therefore, we have a hard time understanding instinctively how common it is for our brothers and sisters in the faith in other parts of the world to get their teeth kicked in.
But as I say, that's an explanation, not an excuse.
Because the truth is, if we look at other religious communities, they're much better at this than we are.
I mean, look at the Jewish community.
If there is a swastika spray-painted on a synagogue anywhere in the world today, by tomorrow, the Jewish community will have raised the attention of the world about it.
And God bless them for doing it.
You know, I mean, they should.
But we Christians need to steal a page from their book.
We've got to be much more outspoken about the suffering that our co-religionists are experiencing.
As you mentioned, in the inspiration behind the book, Christians need their own Holocaust literature.
We need to have a no-tolerance policy for any persecution that members of our faith suffer.
Even the relative indignities, like, you know, we can't say Merry Christmas anymore.
It's got to be happy holidays.
Now, again, stuff like that isn't persecution or anything like that to the extent that we're talking about on a larger scale.
But there is a very real politically correct war against Christmas.
The nativity scene can no longer be displayed at the White House lawn, for example.
And I feel as though it may become more serious here in this country, John.
Fox News reported this week.
I'm not sure if you are yet aware of the story.
In sort of a testing of the waters, perhaps, the United States Army in recent days declared the American Family Association a domestic hate group.
Now, they retracted that after talk radio and other media, including Fox News, to their credit, raised hell about it.
But can you envision the day where there is real suffering here in America for Christians?
Well, you know, the Catholic Cardinal of Chicago, Cardinal Francis George, a couple of years ago, said something very provocative along those lines.
He said that he expects to die in bed.
He expects that his successor will die in jail, and his successor will die as a martyr in the public square in the United States.
And he was attempting to raise up this danger of a slippery slope, that a society that starts eating away at respect for people of faith and respect for faith-based organizations, that starts trying to tell faith-based organizations that they have to conform to a kind of secular creed if they want to play in the public stage in this country.
That in the long run, can you trust a society like that to uphold the religious freedom of individuals?
And I think that's a perfectly legitimate question to ask.
At the same time, I also want to draw a distinction between what we talk about as a war on religion in the States and the very real war on Christians that's being waged in other parts of the world.
Yes, we should.
Soundbite, I usually put it this way.
In the States, the threat to your religious freedom means at worst that you might get made fun of or might get sued.
In many other parts of the world, it means that you might get shot.
And I hope we could all agree that that rate's a little higher on the urgency meter.
Indeed.
Indeed, it does.
And I'm glad you're raising awareness about that.
Again, what we can relate to in America, well, we can't really relate to that at all.
And the examples that we would draw are the ones that I just did.
Your book brings into sharp focus the most extreme examples of persecutions that Christians face.
And it's a story that is not told nearly enough, as you mentioned a few moments ago.
Now, without going a further step, I want to ask you the most important question of the evening.
And I know we're beginning to run a little short on time, but how can people come to own the war on Christians?
Well, it's published by Image Books, which is an imprint of Random House, so it's available in bookstores.
Fine bookstores everywhere, as we say.
You can get it on Amazon or the Barnes ⁇ Noble website or however you acquire your literature.
So it's out there.
I mean, listen, the problem is not getting the information.
The problem is assimilating the information and doing something with it.
And what do you want people to do with it?
You led me right into my next question.
What do you want people to walk away from knowing after having read the book, and how do you want them to apply that knowledge?
Well, when I interview victims of Christian persecution around the world, and I ask them that question, that is, what do you want us to do?
The first thing they always say is don't forget about us.
They have a profound sense that they've been abandoned and cut loose and that no one cares.
And so the first thing I want people to do is just shout about this loud enough that the people who are in the firing line, our Christian brothers and sisters around the world who are suffering, know that we care about them.
I think the other thing, aside from giving money and supporting groups that help out and writing letters to your congressmen, all of which are good, the other properly Christian response that I would like people to take away is to pray.
We dare not forget the power of prayer to change the world.
That's right.
That's right.
Fervent prayers can and will be answered.
And it will need to be backed up with some sort of effort above and beyond that.
And I think we're certainly not seeing that to the extent that we will need to here in this country.
But God hastened the day.
Eddie, a final question for our guest.
Well, I just have one.
I noticed he wrote a book that sounds really interesting to me called The Future Church, James.
And I would like to ask, John, is there any links between any similarities between the future church and the global war on Christians?
Well, absolutely, because one of the trends I identify in the book, The Future Church, which came out in 2009, is the rise of the developing world as the new kind of engine room of global Christianity.
I mean, as I said, two-thirds of the Christians in the world today live outside the West in Africa, Asia, Latin America, the Middle East.
By the middle of the century, that's going to be three-quarters.
In other words, three out of every four Christian men, women, and children alive are going to be in the developing world.
So increasingly, their experiences, their instincts, and their concerns are going to set the tone for Christianity globally.
And if you talk to those folks about what their number one concern is, where they would really like to see the church put its time and its treasure, it is precisely this issue.
Because we in the state may not know about the rise of a whole new generation of Christian martyrs, but I guarantee you, the people who live in those neighborhoods, they know it.
They live it.
That's what they would like to see the church testify to.
That's why I'm convinced that this is going to be a kind of a signature concern of the Christian church in the 21st century.
Well, amen.
And God bless you, Mr. Allen, for your work and for investing your talents to raise awareness for an issue like this.
It is sorely needed.
And we appreciate you for raising awareness with our audience tonight by appearing.
And we hope everybody will buy the book.
Well, thanks, guys.
I appreciate it.
Thanks for your interest, and God bless you both.
Take care.
John Allen, everybody, the book, again, The War on Christians.
You can get it, as he mentioned, at find bookstores anywhere and everywhere.
Great guest, analyst for CNN and National Public Radio.
John Allen is.
And a lot of books, this one perhaps the most important that he's written, and we want you to have it.
You know, this is a Christian show, among other things.
And this is an issue that needs to be talked about.
And Eddie, this was a guest.
Again, you are the kingpin of the Cesspool staff when it comes to landing some pretty incredible guests like Mr. Allen.
And then the third hour's guest.
The one we're telling you to wait for, folks.
Wait for the third hour.
It'll blow you away.
Eddie Miller made the third hour guest happen.
We'll tell you about it when the third hour gets here.
But first, Clint Lacey, alderman for the city of Marple Hill, Missouri, former alderman that is, going to be on to talk to us about what's going on with the tea parties there in Missouri.
You're not going to want to miss this.
Clint Lacey's up next.
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Hello, everyone.
James Edwards here.
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All right, folks, we're starting to line them up and knock them down with regards to guest John Allen.
You just heard from him.
Got a super big guest.
We're not even going to tell you who it is until he comes on.
A super big guest in the third hour.
Just stay tuned.
Right now, I'm equally excited, and that's the truth, to welcome to the show a friend of mine for many years, Clint Lacey.
He's a former elected official in the city of Marble Hill, Missouri.
He served as an alderman there.
He'll tell you he's just an average blue-collar American who works hard and tries to be a good dad.
He has a passion for history, music, and freedom.
Our kind of guy, right, Eddie?
And here he's with us now.
Clint Lacey calling in from Missouri tonight because, well, why don't you tell us why you're calling in?
We posted it to the website a couple of days ago.
Southerners Need Not Apply was the title of the entry, and we basically just reposted an article that Clint had written on his website.
What's going on in Missouri, Clint?
Well, first of all, good to be back on the show.
It's been a while.
It has been.
It has been too long.
But anyway, I'd like to share my tea party experience with y'all.
Please do.
Well, during the government shutdown, I don't think it's any secret that Obama's strategy was to make everybody hurt as much as he could.
And that included shutting down parks, memorials.
Everybody saw the World War II memorial fiasco.
It also included wildlife refuges, refuges, national parks, and things of that nature.
Well, there was a liberty-minded group in the area that wanted to host a Occupy Mingo event.
And by Mingo, it was Mingo National Wildlife Refuge about maybe 20 miles south of where I am, near Puxico, Missouri.
Used to be a huge swamp, and they preserved it.
But anyway, I get this Facebook invite from a gentleman named Chris Bladel, who's a member of a group called Teemo 10, And asking me to go, you know, typical Facebook event invite.
You click yes, and they know you're going.
I thought, well, yeah, you know, it'd be a good thing to go to, just show them that that's not in their control.
That should be under our control.
So I show up.
Well, before I show up, the day before, Chris asked a question on the event page.
It says, what's everybody bringing?
So I put on there, I'm bringing my Confederate battle flag.
He clicks the like button.
Well, you would think that would indicate that they would approve of that.
But apparently things changed when Brian Bowman and the Cape County Tea Party showed up down there.
I didn't really even notice anything was going on behind my back.
But I went ahead and crossed the road, went on the federal property, and the local newspaper there interviewed me.
But what I didn't know was the whole time I was there, Bowman was going from reporter to reporter to reporter, telling them they weren't associated with me, and I was hijacking their event, and it had nothing to do with slavery or state's rights or the Civil War, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, Clint, so basically, you attended as a good citizen of the Republic, someone who wants to see the Constitution prevail and law and order reign in the sovereign states of America.
You go to this Tea Party-related event.
It wasn't an official Tea Party function, mind you, just a collection of like-minded people who were going to protest the closure of the Mingo National Wildlife Refuge.
And folks, we have video of what transpired on our website.
Of course, it's on Clint's website too.
We took it from him.
Basically, there's, I don't know, maybe a dozen, 15 or so people that go up to the barricades at the Wildlife Refuge, and there they meet with the law enforcement officers that make sure no one's trespassing onto Obama's property.
And while the other people in the group are sitting there asking permission to hold the protest, which is basically what they were doing, they went up and said we would be arrested for crossing this boundary.
And the law enforcement officials actually said, no, you won't be arrested, but we ask that you just go in, conduct your protest, then return and leave.
Basically, just do a symbolic type protest and leave.
Well, while they're deciding whether or not they should go past this line in the sand, here comes Clint, and you can see him on the video with a beautiful Confederate flag.
Now, he has no idea what's being said in this discussion between the so-called group leader there and the law enforcement officials.
He has no idea that the law enforcement officials have not told them that they would not be arrested.
As far as Clint knows, when you cross that barricade, you set yourself up for potential arrest.
Correct, Clint?
Pretty much, yeah.
I mean, everybody else is just kind of sitting there staring at each other.
You know, the event was called Occupy Mingo, but nobody wanted to occupy it.
And so you're going to have an event called Occupy Mingo, and maybe you should think about that before you show up.
And then having no idea, again, I reiterate what was being said between the other members that showed up to Occupy Mingo and the two law enforcement officials that were there.
You walk right past everyone, Confederate flag in hand, beautiful flag, a flag that forever flies against tyranny, the perfect flag, I believe, for such an occasion.
You walk right past them.
You lead the charge in the spirit of a true Confederate, I might add.
You lead the charge and you go in, and then after a few more seconds, they said, okay, let's go in, let's do it, you know.
And then they go in with you, they march around, and they leave.
But that wasn't the most interesting thing to me that was said by other members of that group.
Let's get to that part of it, Clint.
All right.
Well, to kind of backtrack a little bit, the guy, you know, I heard the guy say nobody was going to be arrested.
So what I said was, okay, how far are we going in?
He said, well, you know, just kind of stay within sight of us, whatever.
That's all I needed to hear.
I just took my flag and went around everybody and went in.
And I really truly believe that this coward and this group of cowards was sitting there waiting to see whether I was going to get arrested or not.
And then after almost everybody else went in, you hear this Tea Party Patriot say, okay, we're going in, like you said.
Right.
So I'm already up there just dangling around, occupying.
And you see on the video, this woman says, I don't like that flag.
And her husband says, I don't either.
Well, then you hear Brian Ballman say, what don't you like?
And she says, I don't like that flag.
And he said, I don't either.
He's hijacking this event for his own purposes.
I don't like it at all.
I don't approve of this at all.
And he'd already, you know, after the news articles come out and stuff, we find out that he's already told everybody this.
You know, so it's almost like a staged deal that he wanted that part on video, you know, just like it was spontaneous.
I don't believe it was.
I think it was kind of staged.
But yeah, you know, and there were people there that wasn't part of the Tea Party that mingled with me.
And, you know, we had a good time.
But it was the Tea Party people I have a problem with.
Actually, I'm a little disappointed in the organizer of the event.
He didn't cross the barricade either.
Yeah, there were some people that didn't cross even after they knew they weren't going to be arrested.
And I do stand slightly corrected just by looking at the video.
And I hadn't talked to you about this before you came on the air tonight.
It looked as though you could not hear that they said people would not be arrested, but you set the record straight.
You did hear that, and you still led the charge.
That cannot be discounted.
And then you have these Tea Party groups.
Now, this is supposed to be the hardcore patriot remnant of this country, and they are trying to outflank the left, I guess, by turning their backs and criticizing you for bringing the Christian flag, which the Confederate flag is a Christian flag, if anybody knows the history of it.
It's a flag that, as I said, forever flies against tyranny.
I thought it was the perfect symbol for such an occasion to protest the unconstitutional closure of public land.
Eddie, we're coming up on a break, and then I want to get back to you, and of course, back to Clint.
But your reaction as you watched the Tea Party people, of all people, just show themselves to be cravenly subservient to political correctness.
Well, first of all, I saw the video, and I couldn't figure out what they were protesting.
I couldn't even tell that they were protesting anything.
I mean, here they are out in the middle of the woods.
If I was going to protest, you know, I'm sure the officers there couldn't tell that they were protesting.
The people that stabbed Clint in the back.
You know, that's been my experience, too.
You know, I've wound up doing a lot of one-man protests here in Memphis.
But if I was going to do it, and I'm not, you know, going to critique, but I would think the proper location for a protest would be on the nearest federal building, preferably at a congressman's office, maybe a senator.
If you can find them, God is good.
But uh, Doc tried to get, well, we're going to a break.
We'll take this up when we come back for a break.
We're going to let Edan load his reaction to what he's seen, what Clint's talking about, and we've got a few more questions for Clint.
Stay tuned, everybody.
Let's hang on and come back to the political sesh pool right after these messages here on the Liberty News Radio Network.
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All right, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
We're talking with Clint Lacey, former elected official in Marble Hill, Missouri, about his experience at a recent protest, if you can call it that, of the closure of a National Wildlife Refuge in Missouri.
Really exciting here, just to deviate for a split second, news of Clint's appearance on our show tonight actually made news in Missouri, the newspaper, the Banner Press in Missouri.
This is up on Clint's website.
I'm looking at it right now.
The title of the article, Lacey to Appear on Syndicated Radio Show, Clint Lacey of Marble Hill, former Marble Hill Alderman and publisher of the online newspaper, the Marble Hill Constitution News, has announced that he will appear on the nationally syndicated political cesspool radio program Saturday, October 19th at 7 p.m.
And it goes on to talk about where we're broadcasting, which is Liberty News Radio, talks that people can listen to the political cesspool live at thepolitical cesspool.org.
And this was in a black and white newspaper.
Pretty exciting stuff, Clint.
Word of your exploits precedes your appearance tonight, even.
It usually does.
And, you know, Michelle Malkin, syndicated columnist, Fox News contributor, Michelle Malkin actually picked up on the events at Mingo as well and wrote about it, although she didn't focus on what we're focusing on tonight.
But before I get back to you about that, Clint, so this is a story that's making news, of course.
This is what I wanted to talk to Eddie about before the break cut him off.
So this is supposed to be the organized opposition to reclaim America's destiny.
The Tea Party has been sort of identified as the people that are going to resist tyranny.
They're going to stand up to Obama's unconstitutional actions.
And this is what you get, people that turn and throw someone with the Confederate flag under the bus.
You know, these are the same type of people.
And I'm not saying that this is the whole Tea Party.
I mean, this was truly just a couple of people out of the group that was the small group that was in Missouri.
So it's not everybody in the Tea Party doing this, but you do see, it is indicative enough that it needs to be fleshed out.
You do see a lot of political correctness in the Tea Parties, more than you should in an organization like that.
These are going to be the people that stand up to Obama.
These are going to be the people that go down fighting when they knock on the doors and ask for your guns.
I mean, no, these people are going to be the ones that hand over their guns with a bow on it to the first officer that demands them.
This is the truth.
This cold, dead hands nonsense is just hot air.
You know, they're not willing to sacrifice.
They're so scared of being called a racist.
You know, if you're scared of being called a name, and first of all, if you're so ignorant as to believe that that's what the Confederate flag stands for, then, you know, you're not going to have, you don't, I'm telling you, the Obama administration has nothing to fear out of people like that.
Eddie, I know you want to unload real quick before we go back to Clint.
I'm just like, I hope these people that were with you are supposed to be supporting you, Clint.
I hope they're listening because, you know what?
You're a bunch of clowns, people.
I mean, you're a bunch of pathetic clowns.
You turned on the only man out there that showed any glimmer of courage, any glimmer of being an American citizen who's actually going to protest.
I mean, the next time you want to go to protest, you don't go ask permission for the people that you want to protest against, you idiots.
You know what?
I've seen this in the Campaign for Liberty here in the Oath Keepers here in Memphis, Tennessee.
I used to go to Campaign for Liberty, and Clint, I ran into the same problem you did.
You know, we can never get out of our houses where we meet with the Campaign for Liberty, except for a few people.
And I have a good buddy of mine named Lee Cochran.
He never misses a fight.
He has, I can't tell you how many one and two man protests he has, but that's been my same complaint.
And matter of fact, James brought it up.
In the Campaign for Liberty here in Memphis, when I went off and on for about two years, I saw maybe one to two blacks that show up once in the blue moon.
And these same people that go on the campaign for liberty would come to the Oath Keeper sometime.
And a couple of people I got into it with were always talking about, we need to go down to the black community.
We need to go out to the black community and recruit these black people into our organization.
And I would say, what for?
You know, they're never here.
They're never going to be with us.
And they're petrified of being labeled of a racist.
It's absolutely right.
When James said they're petrified of being called a racist, they're more afraid than that than they are of anything.
They're just never going to do a damn thing.
And the thing is, the point is, if they're petrified of being called a name, do you think they're going to muster up courage when they really have something to lose?
And, you know, Eddie's right.
For the blacks that are out there that do truly believe in the principles of what the Tea Party is supposed to stand for, God bless them.
I wish there were more of them.
And they should be welcomed.
But not exalted as if they are more valuable than anyone else just because they're black.
And this is what you see, I think, sometimes with people of this mentality that would have a problem with the Confederate flag.
Blacks should be flying the Confederate flag for God's sake if they really.
But they don't want to because there is a difference.
There's a fundamental difference in beliefs and in culture.
And they like big government.
I mean, for the most part, there are exceptions.
And the ones that are exceptions to the rules, we'll work with them.
And we have.
Jesse Lee Peterson, Azola Foster, et cetera.
But they like big government for the most part.
They don't want a change.
They don't want to go back to the Constitution because they benefit from the handouts that the Democrats and Obama gives them.
So it's not going to be fertile recruiting ground for the Tea Party.
Anyway, that's a little bit of a deviation from what we're talking about here and the fact of the facts of what Clint experienced.
But anything you'd like to chime in along those lines, Clint?
Yeah, I guess in response to Eddie, I think the whole plan of that protest was to cross the barriers, you know, and show that it's ours, not theirs.
And, you know, we get down there and nobody wants to.
Even after the officer tells them, we're not going to arrest you.
They still stood there and looked at each other.
And even after that, somebody still didn't cross.
And it gets better as you look at some of these quotes from Brian Bowman, like the local paper down there, the Plato Press, just small town paper.
Would you care to guess what he said?
Honestly, I wouldn't, but you're going to have to tell me.
This is what the man said.
I didn't want to have to fight the officers or spend the afternoon in jail.
But I had to commit civil disobedience to basically back up my beliefs.
All right, Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.
Civil disobedience.
He asked for permission before he crossed the line in the sand.
And once permission was received, is that an act of disobedience in any way, shape, or form?
I mean, you're a combat medic.
You've actually been in hairy situations.
Was this one of them?
Like I said, obviously people said earlier.
The guy was a clown.
He was a total clown.
I mean, we have him on YouTube.
He can't lie about it.
We saw what he did.
He was a total coward.
I still can't figure out why he went out there because if he went out there to occupy, he didn't do it.
None of those people that went with you, Clint, performed the function of occupying wingo.
That's his video.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this was his video.
That he, yeah, it's self-incriminating.
He's proud of what he did.
And this video, by the way, is the video of everything we're talking about can be seen in its entirety at our website, thepoliticalcessible.org.
Maybe it'll be taken down as a result of this interview.
Could be being taken down as we speak.
But yeah, I mean, there was no Occupy.
They crossed the barrier with permission, stayed all of, I think the video shows, 60 seconds, two minutes tops, and then they left and declared victory.
I mean, that's a shot of patriot I've ever seen.
You know, I don't go to Campaign for Liberty meetings anymore, but I don't want to dog them too much because there's some good people there.
And one fell I mentioned named Lee Cochran, he's one of them.
But me and Lee, we've been trying to get people for months, a year, to go to what we wanted to do is go down to the federal building and try, you know, and get right in these congressmen's face, or better yet, figure out where they live and get in their face, man.
And a gang of people, and I'm not talking about being polite.
Screw polite.
You don't get anything being polite in this world.
No one gives you power.
You have to take power.
You have to take freedom.
You have to take liberty.
That's not free.
You have to get in these clowns' face and you have to intimidate them and make them fearful for their lives.
And you have to tell them, if you don't turn around, if you don't start voting and standing up to this abomination and these criminals in Washington, D.C., we're going to kick you out.
We're going to throw you out of office.
We're going to make your life miserable.
You're not going to be able to go to the theater.
You're not going to be able to go to church.
You're not going to go anywhere because we are going to harass you into your grave.
And if that's what it takes, that's what it takes, by God.
We're going to do that.
Well, to the extent you can without breaking any laws, obviously, we have to put that disclaimer in there as always.
And we mean it.
We mean it.
But I think what Eddie's trying to say, and rightly so, is that you have to turn up the pressure.
You can't go and beg these tyrants in Congress and a tyrannical, out-of-control Obama to do the right thing.
They'll never do the right thing.
You have to put some sort of fear of reprisal.
We're not talking about lawlessness or bodily harm or anything like that, but we're talking about, yes, you will not rest easy.
We will be on your case.
Wherever you go, you will hear from us.
I'm not talking about stalking and threatening and all of that stuff, and I know you're not either, Eddie, but no.
Anywhere you go, you will be met in public, and we will talk to you about this.
We are going to demand that you adhere to the Supreme Law of the Land, et cetera, et cetera.
And that's what we're talking about.
But anyway, Clint, thanks for setting an example and for flying that beautiful flag.
Also there at our website in the article.
I wish we had time to get into this.
It's a Christian flag, and you can learn about the Christian history of the Confederate flag by going to our website.
Yeah, Clint, real quick.
Okay, first of all, if you're not willing to cross the barrier and risk to rest, stand up for your beliefs, then you don't believe in them.
There you go.
Say you believe in freedom and you don't believe in my right to apply my Confederate flag in an appropriate setting that it was the state's rights flag, then you don't believe in freedom.
And third, this particular group of Tea Party people is made up of mainstream establishment Republicans, and it's all a sham.
And Brian Bowman is a coward.
Clinton Lacey, everybody, former alderman, Marble Hill, Missouri.