April 23, 2011 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Welcome to the Political Cesspool, known worldwide as the South's foremost populous radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
All right, my friends, one hour down, still two forthcoming tonight.
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If you are interested in our annual and continuing series on Confederate History Month, then you will not have wanted to miss tonight's first hour.
But if you are tuning in late, I encourage you to consult our broadcast archives available to you on demand 24 hours a day, seven days a week, dating back to 2005.
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If you're interested in Confederate History Month, then you have to catch or revisit what Keith Alexander's commentary entailed during tonight's first hour.
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Check it out at thepolitical cesspool.org.
But that was hardly the only trick of our sleeve tonight.
We have two more great hours of radio forthcoming this evening.
In the third hour tonight, we're going to be covering a lot of the blog articles that we've posted to our website this week.
But first, we have a very special guest who is going to be with us for the entire second hour.
And that just so happens to be the hour we find ourselves in now.
And to introduce our special guest, I'd like to ask my co-host, Winston Smith, to do the honors.
Winston, over to you.
Thanks, James.
Appreciate it.
By the way, good show tonight.
I've enjoyed it.
Well, thank you, my friend.
It's always good to know that the staff approves of its own work.
Well, most people don't know, James, that last month you were the Political Cesspool employee of the month.
You know, we don't broadcast that, but we do have an employee of the month, and James was last month.
Political Cesspool employee of the month.
And as Winston can see, I've got that plaque right over my desk here at the studios.
But like I said, as long as the hosting staff enjoys the show, that's all that matters.
All right, on to the real meat of things here.
It's my pleasure tonight's welcome to Political Cesspool, Mr. Andy Milwicki.
We've had Mr. Milwicki on the show before.
We talked about his first book, Considering Suicide.
It was, geez, a few months ago, has it been, Andy?
I think has it been, I think it was last year, maybe a year ago, if I'm not mistaken.
Not long, but.
But congratulations to James, by the way.
I wanted to throw that in.
Thank you, Andy.
I tell you, it's an high honor.
I got stiff competition around here.
Yeah, I bet.
I think this month.
Well, this month, there's some pretty stiff competition going on between Eddie the Bombardier Miller and Bill Rowland.
Which is interesting because I know Eddie hasn't even been on the show this month.
He's been traveling.
Well, he's just that good.
He doesn't even have to be here to be employed.
That's how good he is.
That's right.
Yeah.
All right.
So, Andy Nowicki, as I said, Andy Novicki is the author of the novels Considering Suicide.
And The Columbine Pilgrim is his latest one.
Very disturbing title for a very disturbing book.
He's a regular contributor to The Last Ditch and has published work for New Oxford Review, American Renaissance.
Andy No Wicki teaches college-level English.
He lives in Savannah, Georgia, in the shadow of Flannery O'Connor and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.
He lives there with his wife and two children.
He intermittently contributes to his blog when the Spirit Moves Him.
And you can find out more about his latest book, The Columbine Pilgrim, by going to YouTube and just doing a search for The Columbine Pilgrim.
You will see him shirtless.
That's right, shirtless.
We'll call him ICANDI Andy.
How about that?
I don't know if that's going to bring more people over or scare more people away, but thank you.
How did this become the comedy hour all of a sudden?
I mean, you just never know which way the show's going to go.
So, like I say, James, you can't be gladiatorial all the time.
Well, that's true.
And anyone who's ever been out to dinner with us will understand that we practice what we preach in that regard.
Thank you for mentioning that.
Anytime.
I'll mention it again before we end this.
All right.
Andy, your two books, Considering Suicide and The Columbine Pilgrim, very disturbing titles.
And your books match the titles.
They are disturbing.
Disturbing within.
They are.
Yes.
Yeah.
They're grim.
They're dark.
They're macabre.
They're disturbing.
They're gothic.
So I have to ask you, what's wrong with you, man?
Oh, how much time do we have?
I got an hour.
I'm telling you, your books are very disturbing.
And my wife could probably chime in, too, if you want to hear from her.
No, it's a funny question, and it's a good question.
I mean, why am I drawn to write about the things that I write about?
And, you know, it's something I've heard.
It's a question I've heard from people before in one way or another.
I think it's just always kind of been how I'm inclined.
It's my temperament.
You know, much like, and I'm not putting myself in her company, but much like the famous southern writer that we're both fond of, Flannery O'Connor, you know, I do find myself drawn to dark subjects and particularly to protagonists who are, in one way or another, just a little bit around the bend, a little bit extreme.
I think the prototype there would definitely be good old Dostoevsky and his narrator in Notes from Underground, The Underground Man.
It seems that I keep coming back to that kind of person, that kind of subject matter.
And let me just say, you know, without meaning to sound defensive, because I know that people have their different tastes, and what I write is probably not everybody's cup of tea, and that's absolutely fine.
But I do sometimes find there's a certain strain of, especially among the American right, the Christian right, and I'm Christian, and I'm of the right.
So I guess I would be of the Christian right myself.
But there's a strain that in which of this, what I would call censorious Philistinism, where if there's a movie that's made or a book that's written that has dark subject matter that's disturbing to read, that's profane or violent or whatever, there's sometimes this tendency to just say, oh, well, this is bad, this is anti-family, and this should be avoided.
Andy, hold your thought right there if you could, my friend.
Now that we've gotten the ice broken and introductions made for this hour, we are going to take a short break, listen to a word from our sponsors.
And when we come back, it's all Andy Nowicki all the time here for the remainder of this hour.
We've got lots to talk to him about.
You don't want to miss a minute of it.
Stay tuned.
Welcome back to get on the political cesspool call.
Call us on James's Dime, toll-free, at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of Deep Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
All right, everybody.
I'm James Edwards, co-hosting with me for the remainder of the broadcast tonight, Winston Smith.
And our guest for this hour, before transitioning in the third, to cover a variety of news items, is Andy Nowicki.
Winston, we were just getting into the meat of the interview when we had to pause for a commercial break.
Turn it back over to you now.
Okay.
Well, I had asked, Andy, I was on my show very well.
Well, keep going with it.
I had asked you what's wrong with you, and you were trying to answer that.
So please go on, Lynn.
Well, just I do think that it's possible to write moral fiction that is not wrong or perverse or sinful, but that deals with subject matter that is disturbing and dark.
And I think that I guess that's the essence of it.
I mean, and if that's, you know, my book is like Hobbes's philosophy of life.
It's the Columbine Pilgrim is nasty, brutish, and short.
It's a solitary, solitary, mean, nasty, brutish, and short.
Thomas Hobbes State of Nature.
Now, you called the Columbine Pilgrim fiction.
I would say it's just barely fiction because what we're reading about here, what I'm reading about, what I see, is something that is both possible and indeed has happened.
Yes.
Now, in Considering Suicide, you had an unnamed persona describing his struggles with detachment, with isolation, with just trying to figure out his place in the world and indeed who he is, if he has any significance at all.
And Tony Meander, the main character in the Columbine Pilgrim, he seems to have those same struggles.
Is Tony Meander a reincarnation of the persona of considering suicide?
Yes, I think there's they're definitely related.
You know, they're thematically speaking, they're relatives of one another.
The difference between the two is The unnamed narrator of my first book, which is published by Nine Banded Books, Considering Suicide, never considers, never thinks of the possibility of harming others.
For him, even though he is angry and wrathful and at times fulminates against people and those kinds of things, the question that he's pondering is: should I do myself in?
And for Tony Meander, the narrator of or the main character, the protagonist, the hero, if you want to call him that, of the Columbine Pilgrim, he's planning to do much more than just off himself.
So it's sort of, in a way, taking it up a notch, I guess.
I think we should tell our listeners what the Columbine Pilgrim is about.
We've already mentioned the main character, a 33-year-old man named Tony Meander, who is obsessed with the Columbine Massacre of 1999.
We don't have to talk about that very much.
Anybody who's been out of a cave for the past decade knows about the Columbine Massacre.
And this guy, Tony Meander, is so obsessed with the Columbine Massacre that it pretty much knocks him off his trolley.
And he engages in a self-examination, if you will, that drives him to an unspeakable act.
I'm not going to give away a whole lot of the plot here, Andy, but folks, you need to read this because it's relevant today.
I would call Tony Meander Holden Caulfield on steroids.
Personally, I found Holden Caulfield, the main character of Catcher on the Rye.
I found him to be one of the most boring and static characters in all the literature.
Tony Meander is not that.
Tony Meander is very dynamic in the most sinister sort of way.
So there you have a brief synopsis of it.
Andy, I want to ask you this.
You're profoundly concerned in both your books about the present state of Western Man.
Is Tony Meander representative of Western Man?
And if so, then how so?
And if not, what is his relationship with the reader?
Well, gosh, let's hope he's not representative of Western Man.
But, you know, considering the kind of person he is and what he's ultimately driven to do in the book.
But, yeah, facing the facts, I would say the main crisis in Tony Meander's life, and it's kind of buried in the book.
It's not totally upfront.
I don't want to beat the reader over the head with it.
But a big theme for him is the loss of faith, the absence of faith.
And I would say that's certainly representative of Western man today.
That's part of the reason why, in my opinion, we've gotten to the state of things where we're at right now.
So, yeah, I would say he's certainly representative of the state of the West.
That doesn't sound, you know, that's not pushing things too far.
He's a prototypical figure in many ways, I would say.
Well, his very name, Tony Meander, implies that he's rather directionless and lost.
Is that what you intended to do with name?
Yes.
Well, It's very interesting because I actually went to school with a boy named Tony Manders, who I won't go into great detail about it, but he was the kind of kid that if you weren't terribly popular, you just thank God you weren't like this guy.
He was kind of a sad figure.
And so I thought about that name, Tony Manders.
And then it's funny, just the idea of rearranging the letters a little bit, or maybe substituting some extra letters in, keeping the same general phonetic sound, but making it meander really seemed evocative.
Yes, he's a lost soul, somebody who's, as the book opens, he's struggling.
He's being pulled in two separate directions.
Part of him is going towards this terrible decision that he will ultimately make, and part of him is pulling away from it in terror, saying, oh, my God, am I really becoming this kind of person?
So, yeah, it's kind of under saying that he meanders is kind of understated, but you get the point of the sort of direction of his soul.
Now, one need read only a few pages before one realizes that Tony Meander is a very disturbed individual.
At one point, he says, quote, I've read the books.
He's talking about the Columbine massacre and its presence online.
He says, I've read the books, joined the websites, posted on the blog pages, but I'm hungry for more.
I need something real, substantial, tangible, ethical.
Unquote.
Now, I can look at that statement in two ways.
First, knowing that Meander is obsessed with a murderous rampage, that statement can be a signal, a warning.
And second, I can see it as an indictment of our cyber culture today.
Am I correct about one, the other, both, or neither?
Yeah, I would say definitely correct about the first, that when he says that, that he wants more, it means, you know, just reading about it online or, you know, reading about this massacre, the Columbine shooting, isn't enough.
You know, he wants to be participatory in some way.
And that's not a good sign.
As for the other part, what you say about cyber culture, I think that I could go in a couple different directions.
Well, hold on right there.
Andy, before you decide which direction you want to take, because we've got to take a break.
We'll come back with more dissection of Andy Nowicki's book right after this.
To get on the show and express your opinion in the political says poll, call us toll-free at 1-866-986-6397.
Welcome back to the program, everyone.
James Edwards here, alongside Winston Smith, this evening, as we are on the eve of Easter.
We're going to be talking a little bit more about that and other matters during tonight's third hour.
But first, I want to continue with our featured guest for the evening, Andy Nowicki, who is, of course, an author.
And what we're doing tonight is showcasing Andy for a full hour, which is something that we don't typically do for a single guest, but we certainly like Andy's work and think that he's deserving of the opportunity, to say the least.
Andy, before you return to the line of questioning that you and Winston were pursuing before the break, I'd like to ask you just to make the briefest mention of the most important information.
That is, of course, once again, the name of the book and where people can buy it.
Well, thank you.
Thanks first for having me on for an hour.
And as far as the book goes, the title is Columbine Pilgrim.
It's published by Countercurrents.
You can find it on Amazon.
And you can also go to Countercurrents, that's counter-currents.com and buy it direct from the publisher.
And you can find a, as Winston was saying earlier, I've got a promo piece up on YouTube that you can find by just going to the search engine and typing in the Columbine Pilgrim.
Outstanding.
So by that, ladies and gentlemen, you should have all the information you need to go and read more about this book, get more information about it, should Winston not cover it tonight in his prepared interview.
But I found that hard to believe that we'll leave no stone unturned.
And with that being said, gentlemen, I'd like for you to continue where we left off just a moment ago.
Thanks, James.
Andy, you were dealing with the second part of a question I asked you about your indictment of cyberculture and its effect on Tony Meander.
I would say that personally speaking, I'm of two minds about it because I am kind of an old fogey in some ways.
I'm not that old, but I am kind of an old fogey in my temperament, and I'm not a technologically oriented person.
But I do think that the Internet has been a kind of boon for, well, I don't know, dissidents and thought criminals, people like us.
And if it weren't so powerful a tool for people with unpopular opinions or viewpoints that are thought to be dangerous to come on and discuss them, then they wouldn't be trying to find ways to shut it down like they're always doing or control it.
So I would tend to be generally positive about the Internet and cyberculture, but I would say at the same time, there's certainly the people like there are strange people hovering on the periphery that you never know what they're up to.
And there was certainly that case of Jared Lee Lofner in Arizona, who was posting all these really strange things and just in this world of his own, just caught in his own mind before he went out and shot a whole bunch of people in Arizona.
So, you know, you always have people like that that I guess the isolation of just being in front of a computer screen can sometimes heighten psychosis or maybe even facilitate it.
I'm not sure.
So I guess I could go both ways on that.
So there you go, James.
I want you to get away from that computer and get out of some sunshine and fresh air.
Yeah, it's hard to do, you know, the modern-day battlefield and all.
Keyboard commandos.
All right.
Andy, is part of Tony Meander's problem the fact that he is so damn hyper-narcissistic?
Yes, I think so.
And it boils down.
I want to also make clear, we've been talking a lot about how troubled he is and how crazy he is and how he does something terrible.
And yeah, I also want to say that I think, to me, anyway, Tony Meander is a sympathetic character.
And He is, in certain ways, especially during the first part of the book, when we find out about his past and some of the traumas that he received at the hands of his peers.
And he was truly pummeled with, is picked on and put through the ringer as some people are in the terrible adolescent days.
And so, yeah, he's narcissistic, and he's chosen to be that way, but it's something, you know, we all have things that we deal with in our lives.
We all have things that we're angry about, you know, probably for good reasons.
Some of us, you know, with more, some of us have more justification than others.
But I think we all face the choice of whether to really fixate on it or to grow past it.
And he's someone who is definitely, you know, he's a very bright man, a brilliant man, but he's, in many ways, he remains in a state of arrested development.
He stays in his adolescence, just seething about what was done to him.
And yeah, it does lead to a narcissistic state that ultimately informs his, you know, the evil that he ultimately chooses.
You mentioned his state of arrested development.
You have this great line where Tony Meander describes himself and he says, if there's anything more irritating than an angry teenage boy, it's an angry teenage man.
And yet here he is.
Here I am.
I'm a freak.
I'm a weirdo.
What the hell am I doing here?
I don't belong here.
Yes.
That's a great line.
Yes, thank you.
Of course, part of that is quoting the famous song, Freak.
Yeah.
Or Creep, a Creep by somebody.
I can't remember their names right now.
But anyway, yeah, that line points out that not only is he narcissistic, but he's aware that he's narcissistic.
He's a very self-conscious kind of character, which is something else that I get from as kind of an influence from the Dostoevskyian figure where he's always talking about himself and then changing his mind and then aware of what he's saying and always in this heightened sense of painful self-awareness.
That's Tony Meander to a T.
He is convinced, Tony Meander is, he's convinced of and wallows in at least three things.
First, his own self-contradictions.
Second, his own detachment from society.
And third, his own superiority, even his godhood.
He's a one-man civil war in many ways.
If he is representative of Western man today, then how do we avoid doing what he did?
How do we avoid becoming Tony Meander?
What's the cure?
Well, to me, I would argue that the cure is faith.
I think we've been modern man, modern Western man, has lost faith, we've lost our bearings due to the erosion of faith in our culture.
So the solution would be to get it back.
But now, as far as how we go about doing that, I'm afraid I don't really know.
I'm a practicing Catholic myself, but I struggle with faith issues probably as much as anybody.
So, I'm certainly not setting myself up as somebody who's going to lead us back to where we need to be.
But I do see the necessity of what we've lost.
And it's something that I mourn and something that I think can't lead us into many good places.
And it's not leading us into many good places.
That's what I saw in Considering Suicide.
That's where I thought you were taking the reader in that book.
I appreciate it.
It was a very sensitive dealing with that issue.
Yes.
Now, Tony Meander has been scarred by his high school days.
You mentioned that earlier.
High school hasn't changed in that lots of people are scarred by their high school experience.
You know, I was.
I was in that first wave of poor students who were being bussed.
And at the time, I had a paralyzed left arm.
So I was a little crippled white boy.
And I was sent all the way across town to basically an all-black school.
And I experienced hell on earth.
And yet, we don't see things like Columbine happening until the late 1990s.
Why do you think that is?
That's a really good question.
And I would say, you know, I would say it's part of the acceleration of the societal breakdown that I was talking about earlier.
Now, this is, again, just my sense of things.
But, you know, we're probably around the same age.
I was born in 1971 in the shadow.
No, we're not around the same age.
Okay.
He's lying.
Generally speaking.
And so I grew up in 18 years old.
Hang on there.
Hang on.
With that, with that, gentlemen.
And ladies and gentlemen, listening, we're going to take one more break.
We're going to come back and wrap things up with Andy Nowicki right after this.
We'll be back right after these messages.
We'll return.
Jump in the political cesspool with James and the game.
Call us tonight at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
All right, welcome back to another radio program that is going by far too quickly.
James Edwards and the Political Cesspool here at AM 1380W LRM Radio in Memphis, Tennessee.
We have one more segment this evening with our featured guest for the night, author Andy Nowicki.
And then Winston Smith and I are going to have some fast-paced fun as we cover a wide variety of news items featured at our website this week, thepoliticalcesspool.org.
But Winston, with the time remaining we have tonight with Mr. Nowicki, I'd like to turn it back over to you.
Thanks.
We're going to have to hurry because we have a couple of really important questions for Andy.
So Andy, please go ahead and finish up your thought from the last segment.
Well, just I was talking about the societal breakdown.
I grew up in the shadow of the sexual revolution.
I think that the nation was generally sane in 1960 and was way off its rocker in 1970.
And, you know, like Rousseau, I grew up around, I mean, thankfully I had a stable family in the midst of all this, but of course, the cultural detritus of rampant divorce and sexualization of the youth and of course abortion, all these, you know, these attendant social ills.
And of course, you know, it it I think it stems from the a lot again, I would argue it stems from the loss of faith.
And of course, you start with just saying, oh, well, why not have premarital sex?
Because if there's no God, who cares?
But then the trajectory is, of course, leads to something like Columbine, where you have some kids say, well, what if I just want to blow up my school and kill all of my classmates, you know, because I feel like it, you know, then there's no God, so what does it matter?
So that would be my argument anyway, in a nutshell, about why it's gotten to that point, why we didn't see it before.
I want to deal with what I think is the most important part of the Columbine Pilgrim, and that's the ending.
In all my reading, I don't recall a story's ending that is as disturbing as the ending of the Columbine Pilgrim.
And yet, to my thinking, it is the perfect ending for this story.
It goes way beyond that quasi-immortal line from Edgar Allan Poe's The Telltale Heart.
It is a beating of his hideous heart.
I don't know what to make of your ending there.
It troubles me, and I don't know why it troubles me.
I don't want to give away too much of the ending, but in the text, you try to baptize all that precedes it with hope.
And here's what's written.
Quote, there is one more thing we should consider.
The death of 35 people has also led to the conception of one new human life, end quote.
Now, that conception of that human life seems to me a very tragic thing.
I'm not sure, though.
How do you hope the ending of the Columbine Pilgrim will affect readers?
Well, and here we are on the eve of Easter, right?
Talking about a perverse sort of resurrection in my book.
Yeah.
Well, you say you don't know what to make of the ending or that the ending disturbs you a great deal.
And I had been talking to well, pardon me?
It truly does disturb me.
I'm not being hyperbolic, huh?
Oh, I know, I know.
And I was talking to Richard Spencer of Alternative Write about this.
It disturbs me too.
As far as the particular detail that you're referring to, of course, you know, we're not spoiling the ending when we say there was a mass murder because that's pretty much we've pretty much said that already, and I don't think that spoils anything.
But there is a detail about what he does in the final, his final terrible act that I think ups the ante, and that's what you're talking about here.
And without being specific about it, I will say that it was not something I planned.
And sometimes when you write, you know, you have things worked out a certain way, but then you get to that certain point in the story, and you find that the story has to go this other way, and you have to get out of the way and let it go that way, even though you may not like it, you may not approve of it.
You may have some real qualms about it as far as you know, like in my case, you know, I was even as I was writing, I was thinking, this is awful.
God, do I really want to do this?
Does it really have to go down this road?
And then, but it did.
I mean, it seemed to me that it did.
And interestingly, though, like you say, it can lead the reader to have a certain kind of hope just because there is a lot of death, and yet life comes out of death, and that is the miracle.
I mean, that's the miracle that we celebrate tomorrow on Easter.
So in a very strange, very dark, very perverse kind of way, it might be a hopeful ending.
I mean, it might be.
I don't know.
I don't know for sure.
But that's my take on it, anyway.
Well, I'm telling you, I'll let you think about that thing for a long time.
G.J. Chesterton wrote that the madman is not the man who has lost his reason.
The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason.
Is that Tony Meander?
Is that Western man today?
I think so.
You know, Chesterton is the quote meister.
He comes up with all sorts of great stuff like that.
And yeah, there's he ⁇ Tony Meander is the trajectory of what he ⁇ he premeditates something that is unfathomable, but it makes perfect sense if you take God and morality and all that stuff out of the equation.
And he plans it.
It doesn't just come out of nowhere.
It doesn't just happen spontaneously.
And we could say the same thing about the actual massacre.
Eric Harris and Dylan Cleveland, the two Columbine High School students who tried to kill everybody in their school and ended up killing 13 people and then killing themselves.
For them, it was something they planned for over a year.
And so, yeah, there's something very reasonable about it.
It takes the power of reason to do it.
And yet, and you could say the same thing about the death camps, I guess, or whatever, any kind of atrocity that you can think of.
There's where thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of innocent people were murdered.
There was a reason behind it.
And the killers had their reasons for doing it.
So, yeah, like I guess as Lanner O'Connor said, gosh, I'm losing the quote right now.
Something like compassion without dogma leads to the gas chambers of Auschwitz or something like that.
That whole idea that you lose a transcendent faith.
You lose the ultimate reason for doing right and eschewing wrong.
And you get incidents like this, which again are very reasonable in their own way.
I don't think Harris and Cleveland, the Columbine killers, were crazy.
I don't think they had lost their minds.
I don't think they, frankly, I think they even had consciences.
I don't think they were sociopaths, but they managed to, for their own reasons, just choke the conscience out of themselves so that they could do this terrible thing.
And that's the same, kind of the same thing that happens with my character in the story, Tony Meander.
I'm going to paraphrase something that you alluded to.
Well, you didn't allude to it.
I'm going to paraphrase something that you quoted in the Columbine Pilgrim.
It's a quote from a Woody Allen movie, but I'm going to paraphrase it a bit.
I'm surprised that things like the Columbine I'm not surprised that the Columbine Massacre happens.
I'm surprised that they don't happen more often.
I think that that's that what you, the ultimate message of your book, that these things are going to happen.
And as we, as we continue a spiral or a slippery slope away from faith, we will see things.
These things happen more often.
Yes, I mean I would, I would, I would bet on it.
You know, I it's it's, it's the natural trajectory, I mean it's the expected trajectory of, of things, the cultural trajectory that you know you would imagine we would follow until this, this free fall that we're in, gets arrested.
If it gets arrested, I mean I hope it does, but but, like I was saying before, I'm I find myself kind of helpless to know what to do about it myself, because I have enough trouble, you know, keeping keeping the faith myself, much less exhorting the whole society to do it.
So so ultimately, I mean it's it's, it's something that I mean hopefully God hasn't abandoned us.
That's all I can say, Andy.
Andy Winston got to interject here and interrupt.
We've got 10 seconds left.
We've got to get that website out one more time because we are out of time for this hour.
Okay, go ahead, Andy.
The name of the book is the Columbine Pilgrim.
You can find it on amazon.com or countercurrents.com.
And the video is at YouTube.com.
All right, there you have it, everybody.
An hour-long interview with Andy Nowicki as he visits us to promote his new book, The Columbine Pilgrim.
Stay tuned for tonight's third and final hour.
Winston and I are going to be tackling all the hot news that is news this week.