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March 29, 2025 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:04:36
Trump Admin Notifies Congress USAID Is CLOSED, Fires EVERYONE, ITS OVER w/Dan Holloway | Timcast IRL
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b
brett dasovic
15:26
d
dan hollaway
38:39
t
tim pool
01:04:32
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Speaker Time Text
tim pool
The State Department has officially notified Congress USAID is done.
It's closed.
They've fired the remaining employees, so it's over.
Now, Congress is supposed to be the one to shut it down, but the executive branch can run it as they see fit, so they've effectively shut it down.
This is huge, because this is the final nail in the coffin for one of the accused way in which the Uniparty Deep State was funding its NGOs, its activism, etc.
We got big news that XAI has officially acquired X, absorbing the social media platform into its AI company, which is going to integrate everything you do or say on the platform into training the Grok AI, which you were already doing.
That's why Elon bought it.
And this is just making it easier and faster for him.
And then, oh boy, so much news.
Tim Waltz says that the Democrats need to get woker to defend wokeness and DEI, and they should have done it from the get-go.
I agree, Tim Waltz, please.
Please do this.
And then we got a bunch of crazy videos.
Some dude in Texas appears to, he's driving next to what looks like a cyber truck.
And it looks like he draws a gun and points it at the truck.
The truck speeds up to get away and he chases after it.
These things are getting crazy.
And then there's another story claiming the CIA found Noah's Ark.
I guess we'll talk about that.
But what I really want to say is the video of Roseanne paying Michael Malice the money she owes him for losing the bet about military tribunals and an election not happening is we've got it.
We're going to play it.
We're very excited to play it.
And because, you know, they made the bet here on the show and it's hilarious.
Before we get started, my friends, head over to gasbrew.com and buy our coffee.
We got really good stuff.
Ian's Graphene Dream is in stock.
And you know what it is?
Ian's Graphene Dream has become a self-fulfilling prophecy because, for whatever reason, we launched this low-acidity coffee blend.
This is what Ian asked for.
It says, low acidity because it hurts his stomach.
So we craft this with Ian, and then I guess a lot of people bought it really, really quickly because they wanted the low acidity.
This created a massive sell-off, and we sold out, which created, I guess, for many people, they wanted to know why everyone was buying it.
Now it's a cascade effect, and we keep selling out rapidly because everyone's trying to try it, simply because everyone else is trying to try it.
Maybe it's just the best coffee in the world.
I don't know.
But we do have Misty Mountains, a Costa Rican blend, and Appalachian Nights.
So go to casparu.com, pick that up.
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Come on.
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Joining us tonight to talk about this and so much more is Dan Holloway.
dan hollaway
Good evening.
tim pool
Who are you?
What do you do?
dan hollaway
My name is Dan Holloway.
I'm one of the hosts of the Drinker Bros podcast, and I have another show called Citizen.
We hawk hard AF seltzer as well.
Oh, very nice.
tim pool
Sounds good.
I'm drinking a regular seltzer, but, you know.
dan hollaway
Yeah, we can't compete with drift on the pink lemonade, unfortunately.
Although we are working on something similar.
tim pool
A non-hard?
No, no, no.
dan hollaway
It's all hard.
Yeah, we're not.
tim pool
Oh, okay.
dan hollaway
Although I do like...
Seltzer water, I guess, right?
I mean, it's better than regular water, usually.
I just don't know.
I think they might be getting you somehow by putting more carbon dioxide in your body.
I just don't trust anybody.
I'm at the point in...
We're at the point in human history now where you just can't trust anybody about anything ever.
So I just assume that everything's out to get me now.
tim pool
Indeed, I heard chewing gum puts microplastics in your balls.
You see that on TV?
dan hollaway
Well, you know what I did see yesterday is that there's a teaspoon or so full, or a tablespoon full of...
Plastic in your brain?
Yep. That sucks.
That's not great, right?
I don't know what you do about plastics.
I know you can eat a lot of cilantro to pull heavy metals out of your body.
tim pool
That's... Oh, but I hate cilantro.
dan hollaway
It's gross, right?
Just put it in a shake or something.
I don't know what you do for plastic, though.
tim pool
Yeah, I don't know.
dan hollaway
Just die, I guess.
unidentified
I don't know.
tim pool
Yeah. Well, thanks for being here.
dan hollaway
Yeah, I'm trying to lift...
brett dasovic
It's all up from here.
tim pool
Yeah. Cody Mack is back.
unidentified
Yes, I am back, and apparently I have a bunch of plastics in my balls, too.
dan hollaway
And your brain.
unidentified
And my brain.
It's all over the place.
But I'm a professional skateboarder and patron of Boonies HQ.
Excited to be here tonight and see what happens.
dan hollaway
What's Boonies HQ?
Tell me about that.
unidentified
Boonies HQ is the skate park that we have here.
It's the facility right behind Tim over there.
Go and skate.
If you saw all the ramps on your way in, that's where we go and partake in our delinquent activities.
tim pool
Cody did a nollie inward heel flip, nose stall, 180 tail stall.
Did you revert?
unidentified
Not on this one.
Just did it back to reg.
tim pool
Just to reg.
unidentified
Okay. Played it easy on that one.
tim pool
I forgot that I brought it up.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
tim pool
But yeah, we got Brett hanging out as well.
brett dasovic
Guys, yes, Brett here.
Normally on Pop Culture Crisis Monday through Friday at 3 p.m.
I am sitting in here for Phil tonight.
tim pool
Well, right on.
Let's jump to the news.
It's a chill Friday night.
It's warm outside.
Everybody's hanging out.
And you guys are here listening to the news because you care.
Here's a story from the Post Millennial State Department officially notifies Congress of USAID closure.
I'm down for it.
The State Department officially notified Congress that the U.S. Agency for International Development has been dissolved and the remaining operations of the agency will be run by the State Department itself.
According to United Press International, the State Department officially told Congress that USAID was dissolving on Friday.
Secretary of State Mark Rubio said in a statement today, This is massive.
I think the reason they're doing it is because Congress basically passes a bill saying you have to have these certain functions.
And so if they can accomplish those tasks set forth by Congress through the State Department, they shut down USAID, which for those who don't know...
Has been accused of basically funneling hundreds of billions of dollars to activist organizations, lawyers, and political outfits to fund establishment shill politicians.
So along with this, Donald Trump's citizenship requirement for voting, it looks like, I don't know, Trump's march to the sea on the deep state is ramping up.
dan hollaway
In progress.
tim pool
In progress.
dan hollaway
It's a battle for sure.
Without the help of Congress, it's going to be for naught at some point.
But yeah, I mean, I don't know what...
You guys are gonna miss the most from USAID.
Is it gonna be...
The CIA overthrowing governments and then installing new ones that people like me have to go fight in 20 to 25 years?
Or is it the 11 out of the 13 Ukrainian media companies that are funded by it?
It's hard to tell which one's going to be the bigger hit to my own personal entertainment.
brett dasovic
Somebody will one day be like, I miss the days of the color revolutions in other countries.
dan hollaway
You kind of alluded to it as well.
There's this circular feature to the USAID funding where money comes out of your wallet and it goes to USAID and then it goes to a foreign country and it somehow ends up in the hands of some enemy adversary that ends up being spent back here on Antifa, BLM and so forth.
tim pool
Indeed. Indeed.
dan hollaway
It's like digging your own grave, I guess, right?
Which is something that you see in bad Western movies, mostly.
But now it's just kind of been our reality for the last 70 years, and we had no idea.
tim pool
I look at it like Capital City and the Hunger Games.
Basically, these are people who don't have to work.
The machine takes from everybody else to fund and feed them.
Have you ever spent any time in Loudoun County, Virginia?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
tim pool
It is a magical place.
dan hollaway
Magical is one way to put it, yeah.
tim pool
Oh, but I mean, like, when you understand that it's all military, industrial contractors, lawyers, and behind every smile is someone funding or helping to bomb children in foreign countries and never declared war on, you go to the park and they're singing Disney songs and they're eating delicious food and it looks...
It looks like magic, but I imagine that if you could see into the souls of these people, not all of them, a lot of them are actually fans, but going down there and seeing just how beautiful everything is and knowing what funds it...
Oh man.
brett dasovic
I literally had a tweet like two weeks ago that says driving through Loudoun County is crazy because what do you mean you built a castle next to a gas station?
Which is basically what it's like.
It's like there's huge just massive properties next to small businesses and you realize that driving through there driving through anywhere through Virginia you're basically being propped up by all of the money that we the taxpayers have dumped back into it.
tim pool
I wonder what's going to happen to this place.
Loudoun's a big county so it's not just like No, I mean, it's like art.
dan hollaway
It's all a fake shell game to make money.
But that's what government is, right?
Government, no matter how noble, I guess, its intentions, and it's not always noble, but even when it's in its best form, eventually becomes an engine to extract labor and wealth from the population.
That's really what it is, right?
brett dasovic
And that's gotten harder the larger the government has grown over time, which is why they're fighting so hard.
dan hollaway
Exactly. So that's why we created this.
If you look at government as an experiment over the course of human history, you can kind of see how it matures just like a human being would, right?
It starts in this rudimentary phase that doesn't make a lot of sense.
In the same way that our religions have evolved as well.
So it starts where we...
See the natural forces that are happening.
We're like, oh, that must be something bigger and more powerful than myself.
So earthquakes, that's God.
Lightning, that's God.
The sun, the moon, all this stuff.
And then you get a little bit farther down the rabbit hole in religion and you start to ascribe social controls to it.
And when I say social controls, I mean...
Like the aspects of human nature, love, hate, war, wine, whatever, right?
And then you get a little farther down, you start to get to monotheism, which is, like, it's an individual with a personality.
And really, it's a mirror of yourself.
That's the point of it, right?
In the same way you see government as an experiment that happens over time, we try this, we try that.
The Athenians, for example, tried a direct democracy for two years, and they were like, nope.
unidentified
No way.
dan hollaway
This is stupid.
You guys are too dumb.
We can't do this.
And then they tried some other stuff like representation without pay.
So they had basically like a Congress but no pay.
And what they found was that only rich people were able to serve.
So they only took care of rich people, right?
So you had to make it such.
And that's why...
You know, when Congress asked for a raise, I'm like, yeah, do your job, and I'll consider it, right?
But you can see it kind of grow up over time, and that's why we know that it's an experiment, because you can look—it is a testable hypothesis.
Does communism work?
No. We know it doesn't.
So when anybody—if anybody starts talking about communism or socialism, you can be like, hey, let me stop you right there, bud.
I don't ever need to hear anything you say again, ever, because you're not a smart person.
tim pool
I mean, we talked about this the other night.
The funny thing about communism is that— It's fundamental precept is basic arithmetic that is wrong.
So when they say, from each according to their ability to each according to their need, you're basically saying, we've got ten people in a room, half of them consume more than they produce, the other half sustain themselves.
It's like, okay, that's called net negative.
And you will all starve to death.
And then when you do that basic, you know, one plus negative one equals zero, you realize if you implement communism, everyone dies.
And then surprisingly to these people, whenever they try communism, everybody starves.
dan hollaway
Yeah, it's wild how that works out.
And so back to the point, even in the noblest form of government, which is the one we have, I think.
Still, it doesn't scale indefinitely.
It can't.
That's why we created federalism, to send power back to the lowest possible level.
That makes the most sense.
But even then, it doesn't work because we don't operate it in that way.
And that's because of all of us, by the way.
And I don't mean just the five of us in this room.
Just every American who thought it was okay to, because I have an iPad and Hot Pockets, to not pay attention to what's going on with my money in Washington.
And we did that for a very long time.
Eisenhower warned us about it in the 50s, and we paid no attention to him.
Right? We just kind of went on about our business and let it grow and grow and grow.
And now it's going to be very difficult to unseat some of this stuff.
brett dasovic
And one of the things I find most interesting, like USAID and like Doge is kind of exposing right now, is people have been propagandized so much by these organizations that are likely funded from institutions with our tax dollars that they've propagandized people into believing that firing inefficient government employees is actually a bad thing.
And you're seeing the death throes of that last 70 years of Poor, inefficient government, but fantastic propaganda reeling its ugly head and showing people that they don't really understand the scale of which the rot is within the government.
dan hollaway
And then there's a part of it that's like a weaponization of our better natures.
You know what I mean?
Empathy is a good thing.
So this is something that people need to start understanding and acting on.
It is the folks in power who are performing this magician's patter.
To make you think you should hate the left or you should hate the right, right?
The reality is that the left and the right don't exist anymore and that we have to hate the people who did that to us.
That's got to be the first mission.
And that is like we need justice and we need empathy from the left.
We need laws and we need strength from the right.
We need these things in the same way that we need men and women to raise a child, right?
That's just a fact of nature.
And we've allowed these...
Usually on my show, there would be a string of bad words right here.
We've allowed these people to completely, as you say, propagandize the dialogue now, where when somebody posits some left position, and you have to understand from them, there's this impetus to want to take care of people, right?
And as a man that's on the right side of things, my idea of taking care of people is teaching them how to fish, not giving them one, right?
And also...
Giving them the means to protect themselves and the information to protect themselves, not to coddle them.
But not everybody is a man on the right.
Some people need to be coddled sometimes.
Children, for example, right?
And we need that feminine presence.
And we can't have it, right?
If these people are left in charge of the public discourse, if they're allowed to say, because you want to own guns, you don't care about kids dying, right?
If they're allowed to say that without repercussion from their own side, the left has to step in and say, hey, that's wrong.
These are good people.
brett dasovic
But they weaponize toxic levels of empathy, usually on an out-group bias because they push for laws rather than taking care of things within their own home, right?
dan hollaway
Yeah, and that's the secret sauce there, to be honest, because when the government shows up to your neighborhood and nobody's got their hand out, they've got no power there, right?
So if you want this decentralized government...
If you want this lowest level possible, if you want federalism, if you want this dream that Jefferson had to be a reality, you better go down the street and take care of your neighbor before the government shows up to do it.
Otherwise, you're not doing your job and you have no right to complain about anything that's going on.
tim pool
I think there's a middle ground in either you teach them to fish or give them a fish.
I think you can give them a fishing pole.
You know what I mean?
dan hollaway
Let them figure it out?
tim pool
No, it's like...
We can teach them to fish, but you find a guy who's got no fishing pole, and you say, look how I cast the bait or whatever, and they're going to look at you and be like, that'd be great if I had one of those.
So there's a middle ground of the help that we provide in society is to give you the opportunity to help yourself.
We don't just say, hey, look at me.
I can do it.
Why can't you?
We say, okay, let me give you a boost.
Here's how you do it.
Figure it out.
But the left goes...
All in.
Here's a bucket of fish.
Have fun.
We took it from that guy.
And now this person's like, I don't even got a fish.
I just get it for free.
brett dasovic
Well, and we just had that.
Literally, the discussion was last week.
It was about soda and EBT.
And the discussion came about what items should be on EBT.
And I think a lot of people would rather have a discussion.
As important as that is, is looking to weed out fraud in divisions like that.
The idea of limits on the amount of time you can be on those programs.
But even having that discussion a lot of the times with people who have certain beliefs in just how powerful government should be or at least unlimited power in helping people because they see it as a virtuous cause, they don't want to have that discussion at all.
But I would like to believe that most moderates do want to at least be able to have that debate.
Even if you don't believe that everybody should be on food stamps all the time, you should believe in some type of responsible federal, Yeah, well, there's a saying that I liked.
dan hollaway
It's hard to hate up close, right?
So it's easy to...
It's easy to create this caricature of your enemy that exists in your head and hate them on Twitter or from afar.
But when you see somebody that's hungry up close, that's quite a bit more difficult, right?
And there is, regardless of what your politics are, there is some impetus to be like, hey, I need to help this person.
There's no way that, like, if you're, if you believe, if you're like a patriot and you believe in America and what it is, then you want it to be the best, right?
This is just like standard broken window theory stuff.
If I want my country to be the best, Then I damn sure better put some effort into that.
Otherwise, I have no claim to its goodness.
How could I?
Like, every now and again, you'll hear these people like, oh, we won World War II.
Like, oh, you were there, huh?
Like, what have you done lately for this country, right?
And there's a lot of ways to serve.
I was in the military, but it doesn't have to be that.
It doesn't have to be police or fire, EMS or first responder stuff at all.
You can serve your community by taking care of the people that are closest to you because that's your job to do it, right?
brett dasovic
And for me, I think what's interesting about that is most, like I said, I think that both sides have this impetus to the right these days wants as little federal government as possible, which I tend to agree with for the most part.
And most people aren't focusing on their state-level government anyway.
They're too interested in the pro-wrestling nature of federal politics these days, right?
But when it comes to the left, they don't really see value politically on the left.
There isn't inherent value placed on the family.
So they look at the government as a surrogate to the family where they say, dump in all the money, put in all the resources there so that we can take care of people without actually trying to operate under the premise that there are steps that you can do to alleviate all of that that start at home.
dan hollaway
Yeah, I wonder how much of that is a scarcity mindset, too.
tim pool
Let's jump to the next story.
We have this from Fox News.
Tim Waltz says Dems weren't bold enough to double down on DEI and immigration.
He said that they should have defined what woke was and defended these ideas, but they let the other guys do it.
I agree, Tim Waltz.
I am glad you brought this up, Democrats.
No, don't, because then you will win.
You can't have them do that, Tim.
So, you were saying a moment ago that there was no left and no right.
What do you mean by that?
dan hollaway
Well, let me, I hate to answer a question with a question, but who was the last conservative president?
tim pool
Depends on your definition of conservative, I suppose.
dan hollaway
In your opinion.
tim pool
The last conservative president.
I would argue Donald Trump.
dan hollaway
Before Trump, though, is what I mean.
tim pool
George W. Bush.
I am not wrong.
dan hollaway
What did he do that was conservative?
You can't be wrong because it's your opinion.
tim pool
That's the point, because what it means to be conservative changes with every generation and every step.
dan hollaway
But when people say it, though, right, because people say I'm a Reagan Republican, typically, when they refer to what conservatism used to be.
tim pool
Oh, yeah.
Reagan destroyed marriage and gun rights.
And he gave amnesty in California to illegal immigrants.
dan hollaway
Got rid of mental institutions.
brett dasovic
Absolutely. Closed the asylums.
unidentified
Yeah, and I wasn't— He raised taxes in five out of the eight years he was president.
tim pool
Right. I was alive for, I think, two years of his presidency.
And before that, a lot of the worst things that he brought to this country came from California.
So, yeah, I don't think that guy was a conservative at all.
dan hollaway
But that's what—if you ask the average Republican today, they'll say Reagan.
tim pool
Right, but that's not left and right.
Left and right doesn't make a direct reference.
dan hollaway
No, no, sure, sure.
The last time that we had a right-leaning, in the traditional sense, president was probably Eisenhower.
Maybe Nixon.
Nixon got railroaded quite a bit.
That's a whole other conversation we don't need to go on.
But when I say there's no right and left anymore, I mean, if you ask somebody to define their ism, whatever it happens to be, conservatism or liberalism, they have no idea what those words mean, right?
And they're not represented in the true fashion.
As you say, though, they do evolve over time.
But the words do mean something, right?
Right. When we say classical liberalism, what we mean is liberalism.
No. That's what it means, right?
tim pool
No, it doesn't.
dan hollaway
That's not what people mean when they say it, but that's what they're trying to refer to, what liberalism was during its inception, right?
tim pool
So this actually is really interesting.
Classical liberalism is a reference to the 1700s.
Right. It's a reference to, you know, Locke and a lot of the founding fathers.
dan hollaway
Exactly, yeah.
Yeah, but liberal doesn't mean left, right?
tim pool
Right. I thought you were saying what liberal was 20 years ago.
dan hollaway
No, no, no.
I mean, like...
300 years ago.
tim pool
Right, exactly.
dan hollaway
When people say classical liberal, they mean, I believe, a free speech, basically.
That's what you should mean when you say that.
That's the most free speech and property rights.
That's classical liberalism.
Yes. Basically, right.
tim pool
And then liberal turned into from classical to traditional to social liberalism, which is what we had in the 90s.
Right. And now...
People hear the phrase classical liberal, and I think it means 90s liberal.
dan hollaway
Right, but that's not what it means.
tim pool
It does not.
It's closer to libertarianism.
dan hollaway
This is what I'm saying.
We don't even know what the words mean anymore.
So people say them to identify themselves, and they have no idea what it means, which gives this space for these...
Useless politicians to come in and redefine what things are, and they're not special people, right?
They won a popularity contest.
The only person in Congress that's special is Thomas Massey, frankly, because he's a literal genius.
Right. Like, he built his own house off the grid, and...
I gotta tell you, I've got a lot of pipeheader friends, but if we were in a legit...
Thunderdome situation, I think I'm going to Thomas Massey's house.
tim pool
I agree.
dan hollaway
You know what I mean?
tim pool
He's off the grid and he built his own self-sustainable farm.
dan hollaway
It's ridiculous.
So he's special.
I don't want to single just him out.
I'm sure there's a couple other people that are great.
But for the majority of these people, they're not special.
tim pool
So typically when people say liberal or conservative, what they really mean is left or right.
And what left and right define is the umbrella of each dominant political faction in opposition to each other in this country.
dan hollaway
Yeah, but conservative doesn't even mean right.
Conservative means to concert.
Like, I want things to stay the way they were.
That's not necessarily a right-leaning position.
Maybe things were left and they want to conserve the left.
tim pool
Exactly. And reactionary.
I refer to leftists as reactionaries.
So reactionary was a reference to...
Let's go back in time.
The French Revolution, where we have the terms left and right.
The left side of the court was saying, Revolution!
And the right side was saying, no, no, we want the monarchy.
We don't want to do this.
And so the right were called reactionaries in that they were responding to the revolution of the left and largely opposed it.
So reactionary came to represent.
It basically means you want the status quo.
You want to return things to the way they were.
The issue is that for leftists, they think they're revolutionaries.
The problem is when they're too stupid to realize they're trying to revert the United States back to the way it used to be.
For instance, DEI programs are actually how things used to be.
The reality is for the majority of human existence, race-based policy was the norm, and it's only in the past couple of decades we've actually had law preventing this.
Redlining and blockbusting housing policies targeting minorities ended in the 80s.
So when the left comes out and smashes things and using violence and says, we want things to be the way they used to be, I say they're reactionaries.
And then they go, you're so dumb.
Reactionary means right wing.
I'm like, no, it means you want things to be the way they used to be.
And we do not.
dan hollaway
Well, this is the problem when you let the people who are engaged in the power struggle define the terms, right?
Because it's all a magician's pattern.
None of these words mean anything anymore.
And that's why there is no...
There is a functional right and left, but not a definable one where there's two sides.
People ask me all the time about...
Well, not so much anymore, but before Trump was elected about civil war and stuff.
I'm like, between who and whom and what exactly, right?
tim pool
You're kicking it off, I gotta tell you.
dan hollaway
I know I'm provoking you intentionally right now.
tim pool
Who are the factions in the Syrian civil war?
dan hollaway
Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda.
tim pool
Well, who were the actual factions at the start of the Syrian Civil War?
dan hollaway
This latest one?
tim pool
When the Syrian Civil War began, so when the Arab Spring kicked off and Syria was overcome by partisan conflict, which involved government forces and other forces killing each other, who were the factions?
dan hollaway
Al-Qaeda, ISIS versus the Ba'ath Party.
tim pool
Well, actually, there was the Free Syrian Army was one faction.
There was...
dan hollaway
Kind of analogous to the Kurds, I guess, in that regard, because...
tim pool
What I'm getting to is basically there were about 12 different factions.
And the argument everybody had before this was, you're not going to get a civil war because who would the factions be?
What happened after three or four years?
dan hollaway
Well, the CIA funded that, though, right?
Sure. So, I mean, maybe they fund some kind of...
tim pool
The point is, historically...
Historically, civil wars everywhere aren't started by two aligned factions marching towards each other in the street.
Pockets of violence erupt.
For instance, the U.S. Civil War started with bleeding Kansas.
So this was not the U.S. government versus Confederate states.
It was seven years of anti-abolitionist and slavery forces across the country killing each other.
And then people argued, yeah, but it's a bunch of random people.
I mean, so even after Fort Sumter happened, nobody thought a civil war could happen even though it already did.
And so they went and picnicked at Manassas thinking there can't be a civil war.
But that's when it bubbled up to the highest points of each respective faction.
So right now...
Who would the factions be?
You know, honestly, I don't know, but you look at Rudyard Lynch's analysis, which it appears he's got three days to make his prediction.
I don't know if his prediction was 1,000 dead by April.
Maybe he means end of April, so he gets an extra month if he wants to really nitpick.
But he said that there would be a People's Congress in Texas, and there would be the traditional Congress in D.C. I said you're wrong.
The people's Congress would be in New York City and the traditional Congress would be in D.C.
run by Donald Trump because Trump – he thought Trump was going to win.
And I said – and New York is the epicenter of where the Democrats and the liberals are waging their lawfare and their campaigns.
And the issue largely is – I guess my point ultimately why I asked about the left and the right is there is a left and the right, though it's not like there is this rigid cube for which there are boundaries you can't be in or out of. It's more like – So it has its orbit.
It's a planet with a bunch of different factions that orbit within it that work in tandem periodically.
The right has something not so similar.
For the nerds out there, the left is the Alliance and the right is the Horde.
And what I mean by that is...
The right is a hodgepodge group of disparate ideologies that have come together largely only because the unified forces of the left are psychotic and burning everything down.
brett dasovic
And they're actually forcing your hand to be labeled as right just by virtue of having one qualifying thing that you disagree with them on, forcing you into a box that you don't even necessarily see yourself in.
dan hollaway
What are the X and Y axes here, right?
Like if we're graphing left versus right, but they're both kind of...
tim pool
There is no easily defined X and Y axis.
I can give you several examples that many people have posited.
Recently I've been saying it is those who serve God and those who want to be God.
What that idea tries to encompass is the further you go to the right on this scale, you have people working towards and being part of something larger than themselves, which includes each—and it's funny because you'd imagine that means communism, but it certainly doesn't.
As you go closer to the left, you get hedonistic and people who are willing to do whatever it takes for their own personal benefit, even if it destroys everything else.
But there's a bunch of different ways to approach it outside of that, and I think culturally it is— There's so many ways to define it.
Smart versus dumb.
Independent thought versus dependence.
Cult-like adherence to disagreeableness.
All of these different things are components of this multidimensional axis.
So the way I see it is, on the right, what do you tend to have?
Disagreeable nature.
The right has...
Christian conservatives, it has post-liberals, it has disaffected liberals, it has atheists, agnostics, largely Christian, some Catholics, some evangelicals, some Jewish, some hate the Jews, some pro-Israel, some hate Israel.
On the left, they largely adhere to whatever the group think is, even if it's contradictory.
So, for instance, their anti-military industrial complex, for which they scream about Israel, but then they support Ukraine.
They're seeming paradoxes in what they're arguing, because it's not about...
It's really fascinating.
dan hollaway
There's no underlying principle.
They're just taking orders, basically.
tim pool
That's what it feels like.
Man, on the right there is logic and code, and on the left there is chaos.
So as long as you are within the orbit of the sphere of chaos, and you are aligned with its whims, you're fine.
And its whims change every single day.
So today they say, you gotta buy an electric car, tomorrow they burn your car down.
It makes literally no sense.
brett dasovic
It's also a party of – oddly enough, they've done a very, very good job of posing the right as the party of money, as the party of resources, whereas a great number of the very, very rich very much support the Democratic Party.
Yet they talk about hating billionaires.
That to me is the one – they've turned billionaire into pejorative.
It's now used to other you in a way where it's millionaires.
Trust funds, politicians who live wealthy off of the citizens who have turned certain rich people into an enemy and use their wealth.
And now they use the term oligarch as a way to other you or other somebody who makes a lot of money.
And there's no actual logical conclusion there because a lot of them come from wealthy families.
The politicians have made millions and millions of dollars off of the American people.
Most of them just willing to look the other way, not realizing that a lot of these politicians...
Sure. I gotta address this, Super Chat.
tim pool
I don't normally do this.
brett dasovic
No, you don't.
tim pool
But Josh Branson said, Tim, the right is the alliance, preserving order and discipline, and liberal anti-establishment are the horde.
The left are the void, a vacuous nothing, seeking to consume everything and bind it to its will.
My friend, you don't know the lore of World of Warcraft.
That's embarrassing.
I can't believe you did the Super Chat.
No, I'm kidding.
But let me try it this way.
At this point, Warcraft lore has become a convoluted mess of hodgepodge garbage.
So we can all agree it's nonsense.
There's pandas running around.
I don't even know why anymore.
And they do kung fu.
dan hollaway
This is now a World of Warcraft show.
Absolutely. Period.
tim pool
Yes. So when they...
Look, Lich King was great.
And I played vanilla.
I played Burning Crusade.
Lich King is where I slowly started walking away.
Then they introduced kung fu pandas.
Anyway, I digress.
The analogy is this.
In the original Warcraft...
World of Warcraft at least.
The Alliance were the establishment forces.
The humans with their great kingdom of beauty.
The elves with their great kingdom of beauty.
Well, to be fair, they didn't have night elves in that point.
And they were like mystics or whatever.
And, you know, I'm going to get some arguments here from diehard fans.
The point is, the undead were a faction of the Horde.
These were, the Lich King destroyed Lordaeron, the city of humans, cursed them to be undead.
They were mindless zombies serving evil.
They broke free from the curse and were immediately shunned and poo-pooed by the establishment.
So the Horde took them in.
The Horde originally was a hodgepodge group of disparate ideologies and factions who were teaming up for survival, and the Alliance were the establishment forces of the existing nations that wanted to keep everything the way it was.
So I view the left, which represents the neocons and the neolibs and the establishment as the established order.
And what happened is Trump and a bunch of other groups of varying ideologies, even libertarians, come on, joined together despite the fact they disagree.
But I think it's largely a good thing.
So enough silliness.
My point is, on the right, you have people who completely disagree, but will hang out with smiles on their faces.
And on the left, agree with me or burn.
dan hollaway
But the right and the left are political positions.
We've assembled ourselves in this new alliance, if you want to call it that, or horde, if you want to call it that, with very disparate political positions.
And I guess you have to...
So what we call the left, leftists, progressives, whatever the hell it is, you have to stay in good standing with the party to be a functioning member of it.
Right. That's the point, right?
That's just authoritarianism.
There's no need to call it anything else.
They are the side of authoritarianism, period.
And everybody else, to include people who would consider themselves to be classically liberal or leftist or whatever, or libertarian, it doesn't matter.
They're moving into what used to be called the right, but it's just the anti-authoritarian.
tim pool
But this is just semantics.
dan hollaway
It is to a degree, but the point I'm making is that...
This authoritarian wing has to be defeated by good ideas and pressure.
And then from it, sometime in the next several decades, a new left and right will spring out of this coalition that's been made.
tim pool
You're right, right.
So Jimmy Dore is a really great example.
He's a right winger.
I have no idea how.
Because he opposes the war machine, he opposes the establishment, the lies, the international order and all of these issues.
They say he's right wing.
Because, you know, even though the man is for universal health care, even though he's very Israel critical, it doesn't matter.
He's far right.
He's alt right.
He's all of these things.
And it makes no sense.
dan hollaway
No, it's not.
tim pool
The question was, do you support the established order of the left or not?
And he said, I support what I believe to be true and correct.
So that means he will tell the Trump, he will say Trump is bad.
He will say the Democrats are bad.
And people on the right, they like that.
They say, Jimmy, that's a good point.
I'm glad you brought that up to us.
We'll try and do better.
The left says, how dare you defy us?
dan hollaway
Yeah. Well, that's it.
You've got to stay in good standing with the party.
And this is what this jabroni is talking about.
He's out of his mind.
tim pool
No, no.
dan hollaway
No, I know.
I know.
Well, we'll throw you a campaign rally, bud.
The idea of a party being self-corrected over time.
Through better information, that's what makes it last, right?
That's the whole point.
Like, you have to be able to call out when your side is wrong.
They were clearly wrong.
There's a lot of people that are calling out the left from the left and like, hey, this is nonsense.
You guys got to stop this.
And I think there's been more...
There's been a lot more activity in calling out Trump when he does goofy things this time around.
brett dasovic
I actually have a running list on my phone of the things that people on the right, where at least you get a strong sense of people who are like, look, the Christian conservatives are going to disagree with him about IVF.
There are certain issues that they're going to push back on, which is a good thing, and you should be looking to do that.
But I think the point is like I wonder if they worry that the current right, what is considered the right as we see it, meaning like a big tent of disparate ideas that have kind of coalesced under Trump's leadership because he is such a strong face, a strong voice in politics.
I wonder sometimes whether that will fracture when he is no longer...
In office.
And if the machine that operates the left, meaning you have the politically uninitiated who vote left just because that's what they've done their whole life, and the rest of them who fall in line with the party because they're scared of what happens if they speak out, if that actually ends up outlasting because the disparate voices that argue on the right won't have a voice to coalesce around if nobody steps up in 2028.
dan hollaway
Right. And leadership matters for sure, which is why you've got to be critical in a way that leaves room.
You get in an argument with your spouse or your co-worker or something like, hey, you guys still got to live together.
You can't burn the bridge here.
You got to keep this going.
But there are things that I think are really important to call out when they're wrong.
This is one of them for the left.
They absolutely have to do away with this progressive stuff or it won't exist anymore.
And then on the right, there's some of this, like buying Greenland, I don't care about that.
Funding war stuff, I don't care about that.
There's a couple of things in the tax plan from Trump that are problematic for me, like carried interest tax.
This is something you particularly should be invested in.
People on Trump's team, I don't know about himself, but people on his team want to get rid of what they call the carried interest loophole.
That is, you as an investor or a business owner pay yourself through dividends at the capital gains tax rate rather than the 37% income tax rate, right?
And they want to get rid of that.
They want to bring it back up to 37%, which means you paying dividends from yourself, from IRL, Inc., or whatever your top-level organization is called, would now, instead of being taxed at 20% capital gains plus 3.8% net investment income tax, you would pay a full 37% plus your state income tax on that.
That's unacceptable.
tim pool
You're referring to profits as opposed to income?
dan hollaway
Sort of.
Yeah, you're basically paying yourself a dividend.
tim pool
I don't know that it applies to me.
I think a better analogy is just in general, somebody who owns equity in a company but doesn't work there is receiving dividends from the shares.
dan hollaway
No, no, no.
You as an owner and a manager of the company, you can pay yourself in dividends instead of paying yourself a salary, right?
And a lot of people do that.
But also, any kind of capital investment you make in a company that's not like a stock or something like that.
Again, for comparison, the top tax rate is 37%.
You're talking about 17 additional percent in tax for the people who move the most money around in the community, and it's completely unacceptable.
Think about it this way.
Tim Cass makes—you sign some new big deal, and you make a bunch of new money, a bunch of new revenue.
I've known you for a while.
You don't just go buy a Lambo.
You're starting to do new media stuff.
You're going to hire people.
tim pool
Just to clarify, when you said dividends, I said the same thing.
Just to understand.
That refers to the profits.
dan hollaway
Yes. Right.
tim pool
You get paid out?
Right, so...
dan hollaway
So you can pay yourself a percentage of the profitability of your company as your salary, but it only gets taxed at the capital gains rate.
Right. And the purpose that this exists for, the net investment income tax exists for, is such that...
You as a business owner are going to spend more money in your business.
Let's take a really clear example.
You own McDonald's franchises, and you have a really good year, and you get taxed 20% on the dividend you take out of it instead of 37%, and you use that extra money.
What are you going to do?
Most people are going to go get a couple more McDonald's because they want to make more money.
You expand your business.
That's typically what people do.
Even at the lower level, when people get tax rebates from Uncle Sam, what do they do?
They don't put it in savings.
They pay off credit card debt or they start something.
They spend that money and they put it in the economy.
An economy is the same as a body of water.
It's either stagnant and it's got a bunch of algae in it or it's moving and it's clean.
tim pool
So for us, when I get paid in profits, the only thing I save on is employment tax.
I don't get a dividend rate.
So without getting into too much detail, all the profit of the company.
Is taxed the full income tax level, even if it's dispersed as profits.
dan hollaway
You don't have to do that.
tim pool
I do.
We've got a big accounting firm.
We have a big account.
It takes a really long time to do our corporate, all of our taxes.
We've got several tax attorneys, and this is how we had to do it.
If I could pay less in taxes, if it was a legal means and they were like, hey, look, here's a deduction, I'd take it.
But I pay an obscene amount of taxes.
It's like 50%.
dan hollaway
That's insane.
Well, like as a business owner, especially somebody that's been a successful business owner for some amount of time that employs a lot of people, the government should be like, yeah, let's give this guy more of his own money.
So he goes, because you will create more employment for other people.
tim pool
Well, here's where it's broken, is that...
And I suppose this is just an issue of corporate structure.
You can choose to do a C-corp, and then your money is retained by the corporation and tax at the corporate tax level as opposed to the individual level.
dan hollaway
Once it goes to an S-corp, you start to get into a little bit murkier territory.
tim pool
Yeah, so I talked to an accountant when we were setting everything up, and I said, why would we want to do either of these things?
And you can be a limited liability corporation.
Pass-through means at the end of the year, all those taxes are your income, and you've got to pay income tax at the full rate as an individual.
I do that.
I said, I don't want anything special.
I'm not playing any stupid games.
I'm going to pay my taxes I'm supposed to pay them.
Give me deductions where I get the deductions.
The problem is, December 31st to January 1st, in this flash of a moment, your company can be utterly destroyed by the way our tax system works.
It's the stupidest thing imaginable.
They say, because this date ticked over from 1159 to midnight, we now are going to take a large portion of your operating account funding.
So I want you to understand this.
Timcast is a corporation as an operations account so that we can pay our bills.
dan hollaway
Payroll, keep the lights on.
tim pool
Everything. As of January 1st, it's effectively frozen.
Because we now have incurred a massive debt to the government that we don't know what it is until our We need a massive profit margin to make sure that we can cover whatever our projected taxes may be.
And so throughout the year, we are forced to save.
We can't invest it.
So you could do one thing.
Hey, what if you operated a loss?
Bigger corporations, but at our size, maybe once we're bigger, we can play this game.
At our size, the challenge is we make money every month, and then we have to have that money set aside because we know we have a tax liability coming up.
We have estimated taxes that we have to pay every month.
The state takes it as well.
West Virginia is very burdensome.
And then once it ticks over from December to January, January 1st, we need money to operate.
And we don't know what our tax liability is going to be.
So it's this really ridiculous position.
Literally right now, until our accountants come back and tell us what our liability is, we effectively can't invest in anything.
So the profits that we earn, we may be at zero.
We may have earned enough profits to where we've got to pay the government most of it, and there's very little money left over.
The biggest concern is we operated at a loss or close to one.
And come January, we're going to pay taxes, which puts our operating account lower than we need to be and puts us in murky territory.
If we want to keep money in the account, we get taxed at an exorbitant amount.
It's an insane system.
I'll just keep it real simple.
From January until December, every month we're trying to budget effectively to make sure we have enough money every month to pay all the bills.
And we need money set aside for if there's going to be a rainy day, a power outage, equipment failure.
As soon as you jump from December to January, all that's out the window and you can't budget effectively anymore.
dan hollaway
It's very silly.
It's a huge liability for...
The most important businesses in our country, which is small to medium-sized businesses, right?
Yep. Because those are the family-owned ones.
Those are the ones where if they go broke, it isn't shareholders losing value.
It's people losing their livelihoods.
And it creates these huge burdens downstream in the economy as well.
Because as you said, the big guys can operate at a loss for years and just keep writing that loss off and passing it down the road.
You don't have the option to do that.
I don't have the option to do that.
When they hit you with a 50% tax instead of a 20% tax, which is still too much, but it is what it is, right?
Like, we've got to fight this battle somewhere.
When they hit you with 50%, that means that you have to make the upcharge on your services, as it were, have to be 51%, or your business doesn't exist anymore.
tim pool
Here's a good way to explain it.
In this line of work, January is a dead marketing month.
dan hollaway
Yep. It's where you build infrastructure, though, and if you don't have the money to do it, how do you do it?
tim pool
Right. And so what ends up happening...
We build around this.
But let's say at the end of December, your profit is $200,000.
So that means the year ends, you've got $200,000.
You need $200,000 to operate January when your revenue sinks because no one's buying ads anymore.
So January hits.
And these are net 30 contracts.
You're not going to get paid to the end of the month.
So February is the actual dead month because December is actually where they offload.
So this is an interesting phenomenon.
December is where the marketing departments offload all of their money and ad rates skyrocket for ridiculous reasons.
Largely, they're just like, we got a million bucks left in the budget.
Let's buy something.
So that money is not going to hit your accounts until February.
So January, you've got a couple hundred thousand dollars, just hypothetically.
You use that for payroll, for infrastructure, and now your revenue is way low.
You also owe taxes, but you're using the money that you made from the last month for your operations.
So that means every month you need to save up so you have a buffer, but now you have higher profit, which is a higher tax liability.
So the more you try and save to offset that you're going to have January, February, and March as weak revenue months, to be fair, largely March and April, every February, people who run media companies get sad because you know your ad rates are low.
The revenue from January was very, very bad because nobody was buying.
And the money you had left over from last year is being taxed massively.
So the first quarter always sucks.
This is a ridiculously insane system.
dan hollaway
It's ridiculous.
And look, there are good companies and bad companies.
Some of them take advantage.
The ad sellers, a lot of them want to do their contracts in February and March for that reason.
Because they want it to be your lowest period of the year.
It's anti-sweeps basically, right?
And, yeah, we get hammered every March, actually.
tim pool
Yep. When they come to you and offer you dirt rates.
dan hollaway
Yeah, we're just like, nah, we're good, we're good.
Keep it.
Yep. We'll wait until next time.
tim pool
Right. So, to simplify, because we have a tax liability abruptly put on us as a day passes, we try every month to make sure we have a certain margin of profit because we know we need...
Tax liability and operating costs.
The problem is the more we save to cover the tax liability, the bigger the tax liability gets.
dan hollaway
It's nuts.
It's recursive.
Certainly the tax liability for everyone sucks, especially for the less amount of money you make.
It sucks.
Any amount of money is going to help you more.
But if we're trying to build a stronger economy from the inside out, taking people's ability to expand what's actually working.
For no apparent reason either.
Seems like a very silly thing to do.
It seems intentionally to keep people kind of, you know, away from upward mobility in my opinion.
tim pool
Well, let's jump to this viral video that's popped up today.
dan hollaway
Oh boy.
tim pool
We've got this from...
dan hollaway
I've got to be careful here.
tim pool
You've got to be careful here.
You've got to watch it here, Dan.
dan hollaway
I'm going to stretch.
tim pool
So this is a video from Donald T. News.
Unhinged driver pulls a gun on a cyber truck in a road rage incident.
What's your reaction?
Share so we can identify this man.
The question is, is this a road rage incident or is this an anti-Tesla guy?
This might just be a road rage incident.
dan hollaway
Hard to say.
tim pool
It is, especially because of what's going on.
Now, we don't know that he actually pulled a gun, but look at this.
When are people going to learn that these vehicles have cameras on them?
That guy's going to lose his arm.
You can see his license plate, too.
I don't know if this video is going viral.
And let's just jump to it.
There you go.
dan hollaway
What is that?
tim pool
I don't think it's a gun.
I don't know.
dan hollaway
It looks like his index finger is tucked, but I can't tell what it is.
That would be...
Look, if you're in Texas, his plate suggests he is.
Jeez. And you're pulling something that looks like a gun on somebody, you may want to make sure that it is.
tim pool
Oh, I think I know where that is.
dan hollaway
Stafford, Texas is where it is.
Is it?
Yeah, it's right around Houston.
brett dasovic
Is the idea that that was like a holstered weapon?
dan hollaway
Maybe. That's what somebody said to me.
brett dasovic
It looked like a holstered weapon to me?
dan hollaway
It's hard to tell, to be honest.
I don't know.
tim pool
I don't know, man.
dan hollaway
Either way, it's really dumb.
And again, like you said, this has been going on for some weeks now.
People know that sentry mode's a thing, yes?
Do they know this?
tim pool
I guess they don't.
Who did we have on who just said they didn't know?
Carl? Carl Benjamin said, I didn't know the Tesla's had cameras.
He's like, I don't drive one.
I don't know.
Yeah, then we have this from Libs of TikTok.
Tustin Police in CA are asking for information on this Tesla vandal keyed a Tesla.
Well, there you go.
I mean, these people...
unidentified
We don't need the music.
dan hollaway
No, we definitely don't need that music.
tim pool
This is crazy.
brett dasovic
It's a high emotional dysregulation.
dan hollaway
It is.
brett dasovic
That's the way I see most of it.
The hallmark of most of these cases is they get really, really emotional.
They have no ability to center themselves or stop themselves from doing something stupid.
And they don't care what the repercussions are.
That or they've just never actually suffered the repercussions from their actions.
unidentified
And all the cognitive dissonance as well.
tim pool
Their own actions are causing a lot of the problems.
unidentified
They just can't see it.
They're never going to, unfortunately.
dan hollaway
I think some of it is a result of oppression FOMO.
None of these people have ever...
They've been literally oppressed in their entire lives.
And you notice how, aside from the obese man on the homemade four-wheeler, which is impressive, by the way.
brett dasovic
That was impressive.
dan hollaway
Of all the things that happened, I was like, alright, that's kind of cool, actually.
tim pool
Yeah, I mean, not the vandalism.
I think someone's going to die.
dan hollaway
I mean, I can't believe no one's been killed in the firebombing stuff yet, to be honest.
It's so dangerous, especially with those lithium batteries.
We saw it in the Vegas guy that blew himself up.
That stuff really ignites.
tim pool
So this is crazy.
When we saw the story from Vegas of the firebombing in the vehicles, we did not actually know the full story, which they've now released with the arrest of this guy.
He actually took a rifle and shot upwards at cameras.
So those bullets went somewhere.
unidentified
Somewhere, yeah.
tim pool
Yep, because he missed.
dan hollaway
Because gravity exists, obviously.
tim pool
Right, but also he missed.
He did not hit the building.
He then spray-painted resist on the building, unloaded the rifle on a bunch of cars, and then started throwing Molotov cocktails.
So it was a sustained and prolonged terror attack on this thing for some time.
I think a lot of people assumed, I know I did, that it was a guy who threw some Molotovs and ran away.
No, he was there for a while.
And they ended up fighting him, probably because of this.
But, I mean, the extent of these attacks that we've seen, they're worse than we realize.
brett dasovic
Do you really think it's FOMO because they have oppression, FOMO, or is it that they truly do see themselves as somebody who's doing something good for people?
dan hollaway
That's part of it, too.
brett dasovic
That's what it feels like.
It's the ultimate virtue signal.
dan hollaway
I think it's a symptom of the same disease because now the social currency used to be honor and integrity, right?
Are you a good man?
And that would be your purchase into a community.
I'm a good man, I'm a good woman, whatever.
Now it's like, rank me on the victim scale, and that's where I am.
But if you're a middle-class white person, where do you land on that?
So you've got to manufacture it, right?
You have to manufacture it somehow.
So you have to take on the burdens of other groups.
Basically, it's what happens.
So that's why you see all the white people at the BLM stuff.
They don't actually care about this.
Come on.
brett dasovic
It's why they use the language ally.
dan hollaway
Yeah, exactly.
brett dasovic
Because they want to make sure that you're part and parcel to their cause.
tim pool
It's why they're showing up to black neighborhoods and burning them down while black people ask them to stop.
dan hollaway
Yeah, it's like, hey, I gotta shop there, bud.
brett dasovic
Yeah. I mean, that was all over.
Like, in Minneapolis, there was independently owned businesses that were like, please don't burn us down.
dan hollaway
Yeah, it's not.
tim pool
The famous video of the, there was a firefighter who saved up.
And then opened a bar.
A sports bar was his dream.
And he's in the building, being interviewed by local news, crying because they ransacked it.
And as he's being interviewed, people are stealing the safe and carrying it out the back.
They came back after he gave the interview and burned the building to the ground.
dan hollaway
So you were at some of this stuff with Occupy back in the day.
I lived in Oakland during that whole thing.
In uptown Oakland on P. Bond Avenue, right?
And I remember...
All these Berkeley students, and I was working in security contracting back then, emergency management stuff, and I was plainclothes in some of these things.
But even by my house, which was on Piedmont Avenue, I saw this large group of white children marching by saying, whose streets are streets?
And I'm like, you guys may want to take the temperature on your whole situation here because I don't think you're understanding what's actually going on.
It was very bizarre.
I was at, I recall being at Berkeley, actually, and there were protests going on, and a buddy of mine, he's a cop that grew up in West Oakland, black dude, and there's this 19-year-old white kid yelling at him, hey, you're a racist, you're a racist.
I'm like, oh my god, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me.
This is hilarious.
Like, you couldn't pay for this kind of irony anywhere.
unidentified
Right. You know what I mean?
dan hollaway
So I think these people's minds, to your point, there's a part of it that is like trying to search out this social...
I guess acceptance from somebody somewhere and they just don't get it anywhere because they're not part of the new victim class as it were so they have to reach out and find ways to identify with that and part of it well the way it started was Doing the protests, and then it moved on to thoughts and prayers and pronouns and flags in your bio.
brett dasovic
Black squares.
dan hollaway
It's nonsense, right?
You've gotten all the dopamine and serotonin from helping somebody, but you've never actually helped them.
brett dasovic
The true definition of slacktivism.
dan hollaway
Yeah, it's absolute nonsense.
And now it's like, I think they're waking up to the fact that they've been doing nothing for the last 15 years while all this is going on.
They're like, oh, I better go key somebody's car.
I better actually do something.
And this is how revolutions begin sometimes.
tim pool
Well, so I was...
I think I was talking to Cody about it.
We were talking about how insane everything's gotten politically on the ground.
And I was saying that if 20 years ago, a dude dressed up in full neo-Nazi outfits and started going around spewing racial slurs at people, what would happen to that guy?
dan hollaway
He would probably get beat up by somebody.
tim pool
He'd probably get beat up by somebody.
And that's still true to this day.
brett dasovic
That's just Kanye West now.
tim pool
So it's still true in every circle.
When this guy showed up in Portland...
And you had a bunch of right-wingers having a rally, and he was wearing swastikas.
dan hollaway
This is when you were out there?
tim pool
I was not there when this happened.
Okay. A guy showed up with a swastika flag, and he was doing the Seagull and all that stuff.
They kicked him out, and they told him they shoved him.
They said, get out.
The right did that.
The left would have knocked him out.
But the point is, I think what we're seeing with the keying is that 30 years ago, anybody in anywhere would have probably said, you know, someone would beat up a neo-Nazi guy.
The left views literally anybody outside of their political sphere like that.
And so the problem is they're insane.
But these people who are keying these cars literally think we are in a society that is 99% anti-Nazi, and that is a Nazi car, so I'm going to damage it.
They're wrong because they're deluded based on what the media has been feeding them and what they're getting from social media.
But I guess the point of the story is so that...
We can see how we used to have a cohesive moral society.
dan hollaway
Regardless of political affiliation.
Right. There's one thing we could all agree on.
tim pool
My point is that these people have not become more violent.
Is it the violence always existed in people to attack those who are deemed outside of the Overton window?
And today, the Overton window is bifurcated, and we are all outside of their Overton window, so to them, they are justified in doing this, and always have been.
dan hollaway
What do you think the impetus for that is?
Do you think people are just naturally growing apart, or do you think it's more the constant propaganda?
tim pool
Technology. It's technically the propaganda, but it's rooted in algorithmic distribution of information.
dan hollaway
Like the outrage algorithm?
brett dasovic
You can tie it back to when you got the internet in your pocket.
Absolutely. Like, that was a weapon that was just fed into everyone's pocket.
We were talking about it with Rachel Zegler in her new movie, and I was like, you do realize that these companies aren't putting social media clauses into their contracts, and every one of these actors carries around a nuclear weapon in their pocket that can blow a $200, $300 million piece of entertainment in 10 seconds.
Yet, we as a society haven't found a way to deal with that.
dan hollaway
Don't you think it started a little bit earlier, though?
Like, with the...
We saw little flashes of it, and certainly technology made it way worse.
It just made it easier and more quick, and it also made it so much easier to get it out to everybody all at once.
We saw little flashes, like there was the Atwater thing with Nixon, with the unfortunate things he said about the South, mostly racist stuff.
But then more in the mainstream was the Newt Gingrich.
When New Geekers became Speaker of the House, he and—what's that guy's name?
I can't remember the guy's name from the right-wing messaging service, but they kind of turned the word liberal into a bad word.
That was their main focus in the mid-'90s, was to make the word liberal a pejorative term, huh?
No, no, no, not Rush, no.
Although, no, it was a—man, I can't remember the guy's name.
He's a communications expert for the Republicans.
You still see him around everywhere.
He's the guy that invented the phrase death tax, actually.
To me and the capital gains tax.
But yeah, we saw flashes of it.
There were already these people trying to make this point that, hey, that's not just somebody you disagree with.
That's your enemy.
And then social media obviously amplified that to the nth degree.
But in the early days of social media, it wasn't that.
It was cat videos and stupid nonsense, right?
tim pool
So the debate that happened eight years ago in the culture war at the time when it was intersectional femininity, we didn't say wokeness.
Dr. Peter Boghossian, James Lindsay, and Helen Pluckrose argued it was universities that created these ideas.
They fomented them, and then the students came out and did their thing.
And I argued that's not correct, because universities contain many different ideologies and many different student groups.
The universities adopted these ideologies largely because of the internet and what young people were using to communicate on a daily basis.
So it wasn't the professors that were telling the kids be communists.
It was social media telling them this, and then the kids told their professors, we are communists.
The universities then said the customer is always right.
unidentified
But it doesn't help that these are echo chambers that you're in.
I got a TikTok a few years ago, and I started following a bunch of skateboarders, and then I think I came across one of Tim's videos and watched it.
And then it started kind of feeding me more and more kind of conservative things.
I was like, oh, this is cool.
You know, I kind of get down with this.
But then it started actually becoming, like, extreme things.
And now sometimes I'll go on my TikTok and there's very, like, crazy, like, we need a white Europe, like, just very to the extreme right thing.
tim pool
On TikTok!
unidentified
Yeah, I'm like, dude, I just want to watch skateboard videos.
This is crazy to me.
tim pool
See, and this is what I was saying, too, because everybody always wants to make the joke.
You're given.
I mentioned something like their zit-popping videos on Instagram.
Dr. Pebble Popper.
dan hollaway
No free ads, but that's okay.
tim pool
Is that a person?
brett dasovic
It's a real person?
dan hollaway
She's made millions of dollars.
tim pool
These are vomitous, disgusting videos.
And Instagram will try and show them to me.
And then people go, haha, Tim, it's showing you what you like.
No, no, no, no.
It's testing the waters with various random things at a time.
So when you go on Instagram or TikTok, it periodically will show you something random, a mutation in the algorithm.
brett dasovic
It feels like it does that on Sundays to me.
Like, my Sunday algorithm looks vastly different.
dan hollaway
It's multivariate testing is what it's called in the market.
tim pool
Right. It's a genetic mutation.
Periodically, it's going to show you a little bit of what you like, and it's going to slowly evolve.
You know what I'm really, really, really, I want to swear so bad?
I hate ping pong.
dan hollaway
That's a weird thing to hate.
tim pool
But I hate it because of Instagram.
dan hollaway
Oh, really?
tim pool
Because they keep sending me the videos and I don't watch them.
dan hollaway
Like competitions?
tim pool
Of people playing ping pong.
And it's crazy because I feel like they're running an experiment on me, which is why I'm so pissed off about it.
Because I've never watched the video.
I don't watch the video.
It all started when I went to the Apple Valley Mall or whatever in Winchester with Allison.
And we were waiting for Zoomies to open and we were 10 minutes early.
So we walked to the mall and they had a ping pong table and I chuckled and I said, hey, let's play.
And we played a silly game with, we don't really know the rules.
And then I said, whatever.
Never tweeted, never posted, never took pictures, went to Zoomies, looked around.
I think I was buying, I was buying, it was when I bought a bunch of wheels and bearings for the park that we have downstairs.
I was like, we just need a ton of bearings for people if something breaks.
On the way back in the car, I look, there's a ping pong video in my feed.
I ignore it.
I don't watch it.
Now, it endlessly feeds me ping pong, and I've actually got, so first I said, I'm going to ignore it, and just keep doing the skateboard videos, poker and skateboarding, and sometimes, what do I get?
Poker, skateboarding, and food.
Lots of pizza.
Dave Portnoy videos where he's eating pizza for days, but I do like those videos, so that's okay.
So it got to a point where I got so many ping pong videos that I just actually went in and said, this is disturbing.
On every single one, every time, it will not stop sending me ping pong.
dan hollaway
To this day.
tim pool
To this day!
dan hollaway
You may want to call either an exorcist or the FBI or something.
tim pool
I think it's an experiment to see if they can force someone, through repeated exposure, to start watching content they don't like.
dan hollaway
Well, they haven't met you.
That's not going to work.
I know, I'm getting angry.
You're just going to get angrier as it goes on.
unidentified
No, that's how these TikTok videos are.
Like I said, I just want to watch funny.
I sent a lot of memes to my girlfriend, Julia, like a bunch of cat shit.
And it's like, okay, we...
Send skateboard videos, we send this.
And I keep getting all this weird propaganda shit just being completely fed into my feed.
I'm like, dude, I don't want to see this type of stuff.
This is on TikTok?
Yeah, this is on TikTok, man.
It's really weird.
With Instagram, it's not as much.
dan hollaway
It's weird to me how they decided to couple the different groups of information together.
Yeah. Maybe that's the result of the testing that's gone.
tim pool
Okay, I just gotta say, real quick.
dan hollaway
Are you seeing one right now?
tim pool
No, no, no.
But I pulled this up and it made me realize something.
So I get a lot of skateboarding, Magic the Gathering, and poker.
And then comedians.
Because I follow Ryan Long.
dan hollaway
He's hilarious, by the way.
tim pool
He's fantastic.
And Danny.
Danny Polishchuk.
Shout out.
But it started showing me a bunch of severance clips.
dan hollaway
That's because you were saying the word in front of all these devices.
tim pool
I guess so.
dan hollaway
That's what that is.
tim pool
I used to not think that was the case.
brett dasovic
Tim Cook in particular was like, no, Tim.
You're going to watch the show.
dan hollaway
Samsung's been sued twice for this.
The TVs and then the refrigerators were listening to you.
tim pool
Your refrigerators!
brett dasovic
Yeah. To your point, though, about the emotional dysregulation in your phones, you notice, especially before bed, if you spend a lot of time on your phone, it can absolutely affect your mood.
So you fall into a death spiral of just looking, looking, looking.
Now imagine you have no self-control and you're consistently looking at your phone and you're out in public and you're watching all of this stuff that upsets you and then you see a Tesla.
And stuff like that.
Like maybe 10 years ago, that guy sees that at home on his television, but he goes outside, he gets fresh air, he gets away from the screen for even 20 minutes, right?
And it somehow recalibrates his brain, even just a little bit, to allow him to say, that's not a good idea.
Do not do this.
Something bad could come of doing something like this.
But if you have it being fed to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you're not going to be able, especially if you're not aware that it's happening.
And I wonder sometimes if any of them even think about what their algorithm is actually doing to you.
I feel like people maybe in this space actually do more than your average person because your ideas are being called into question so you're wondering about the content that you're looking at.
And I feel like both sides end up falling into it at least.
A little bit, right?
So if you're not paying attention to what the algorithm is feeding you, it's upsetting you, it's angering you, and you don't have any other way to let it out, and all you do is you see a Tesla, you see a Cybertruck, and you say, I have to do something about it.
dan hollaway
It's also immoralized, right?
brett dasovic
Yes. They've rationalized it, and they believe they're right.
tim pool
Who could have...
I actually...
So I got one of the videos.
Do you ever see one of these?
dan hollaway
Um, no.
tim pool
It says, can the ball escape all 1,000 rings in time?
dan hollaway
That's just a death scroll sentence right there.
tim pool
And there are tons of videos like this where they're nonsensical mind rot videos where you just look at the screen and then watch a ball bounce around for one minute.
dan hollaway
I catch myself sometimes.
Watching it, I'm like, oh, I gotta get out of here.
You know, to your point about emotional dysregulation, we have completely interrupted the very natural process.
Or relationship, rather, between effort and outcome.
And I think that's a big part of this.
It used to be that, you know, if you don't work, you don't eat.
That's the best way to say it, I guess.
But effort used to equal outcome, right?
The effort in this regard, in this social regard, as far as social acceptance goes, it used to be that my community needs something, so I'm going to either develop my skills to be able to do it, or I'm going to help right now, and I'm going to win the social reward for that, both physically, like the biochemicals in my body are going to reward me for it, but also society rewards me for it.
And now we get those rewards without having actually done anything.
So that's the positive.
It's weaponizing the positive stuff against us.
And then what you're saying is weaponizing the negative part of it.
And they're both...
Very true.
tim pool
So, to try to wrap up that point I was making earlier, which launched this conversation about universities and social media, because someone super chatted saying professors are commies.
Indeed they are.
You are correct.
But none of them.
Many of them were classical liberals.
There weren't a lot of conservatives.
dan hollaway
Actual classical liberals.
Right. Not the way that people say it now.
tim pool
So, what ends up happening is, I know I explain this a lot to, you know, periodically on the show, but...
For those that don't have the context, forgive me, but for those that don't, let's say you're 10 years old in 2006.
You're not on Facebook.
A couple years later, you joined Facebook.
You're now 13. At that time, at the end of the 2000s, there was a website in the top 500 websites in the world, and all it did was display police brutality videos.
They were making millions of dollars doing this because Facebook would promote those videos more than anything else.
The rage and injustice generated traffic, clicks, and shares.
And Facebook didn't care what was causing it.
It just said, whatever works.
So at the time, YouTube was largely promoting big-tittied women.
Thumbnails for most YouTube creators that were successful were constantly incorporating women in bikinis because you had a choice on the front page of YouTube.
What are you going to click?
YouTube said, whichever one gets clicked the most, that's the one we want.
And so people started clicking on...
Thumbnails of big-tittied women.
On Facebook, it was a scroll feed.
Whatever you'd stop and look at and then share, Facebook would say, more.
What ended up happening to these young kids, you're 13 years old, you're on Facebook, you're seeing, you know, it's my birthday today, you know, just got married, a new movie is out, and a police murdered a black man.
You scroll down, movies, movies, police murdered a black man.
You scroll down.
This is how we have a generation of people when asked.
How many unarmed black men are killed by police?
They say 10,000, 20,000, when the number is actually nine.
dan hollaway
Nine, yeah.
Douglas Murray had that in his last book, I think, talking about that.
Like if you ask, the breakdown is if you ask somebody who is a solid Democrat, they say 100.
If you ask somebody who is a, or I'm sorry, center-left, if you ask somebody who's a solid, I only vote for Democrats, it was 1,000.
And if you ask a progressive, it was 10,000.
And the answer is nine.
tim pool
So what's happening is, at this time, companies were trying to figure out how to make money, and they said, what articles get shared the most?
I actually worked for some of these companies in the early 2010s.
And they said, rage.
So mothers, middle-aged women, are the most likely to share content, and content that makes you angry is most likely to get shared.
So the target was, make content that's going to piss off moms.
A kid grows up on Facebook seeing literally nothing but police beating black people.
They believe this country is a bunch of white supremacists running around beating black people.
They see a black cop and think to themselves, why would he support an institution that literally exists only to beat black people?
But they don't realize that they were being fed an echo chamber.
For us, they were older.
We talked about the echo chamber at the time.
dan hollaway
We lived before it.
We had the good fortune of having lived before it, actually.
tim pool
So when we were all saying, ah, it's an echo chamber, we know, we still understood what life was like before that.
But this exists for the right and the left as well.
That being said, one of the greatest gifts the left accidentally gave was the censorship of the right, which forced the right onto a bunch of different platforms, resulting in a bunch of different ideologies, and it made rational, normal people find the ability...
to communicate in a space that was dominated not by one powerful ideology, but many different that came together.
Whereas the left, it's adhere to the culturels.
dan hollaway
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think in very simple terms, we amplified religion.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which stoicism is basically just like the first thing you should master is yourself.
If you wanted to define stoicism, that is it.
tim pool
So, should we as a society take control of the social media platforms and decide what content gets shared?
dan hollaway
I don't think you can.
I mean, these algorithms are so complicated now.
I don't even know if the people that made them understand what's going on.
tim pool
You can.
What YouTube does is they put a negative algorithmic threshold on right-leaning content and a positive one on left-leaning content.
Sure. So TikTok does this very heavily.
And then what ended up happening with the TikTok ban is you got a bunch of conservatives cheering for it, despite the fact they were in the ghettos of TikTok.
They wanted this machine to exist, which props up leftist ideology and destroys conservatives because they were getting morsels.
So it's possible.
dan hollaway
Well, when you say we as a society should take it over, who is we?
tim pool
Exactly. The ones who win the culture war.
unidentified
I have to say I do disagree with that to a degree, being able to control what's being put out there.
I think that...
You should be able to be the creator of whatever you want and however you want yourself to be viewed online.
I just think the aggressiveness of some of these algorithms gets out of hand.
I think it starts leading you down these radicals to extremism.
So I do have to say, I don't agree with necessarily controlling what's put out on the internet, but not just leading.
dan hollaway
I think what Tim means is, how are we going to manage this in a way that they're not doing exactly what you're talking about?
unidentified
So I would think it would be more of a...
Let off the gas pedal on those algorithms instead of controlling the media.
dan hollaway
Yeah, but people will create their own, I guess.
One of the early things that Elon talked about on Twitter, and it never really materialized, probably because it's just too much of a lift at the moment, and we both agree and have since he purchased Twitter that he got it for the AI purposes.
Agreed. But anyways, beyond that, one of the things they talked about in the very early days was being able to open source the algorithm and then manipulate it yourself.
With radio buttons or whatever it was, right?
That never materialized, but I would be very interested in seeing even a small test version of that somewhere.
tim pool
Or the Fediverse.
Yeah. Where you basically network into how you see fit.
But I would say to you, Cody, the issue with what you're describing is we let off the gas put on the algorithms.
There is...
So when YouTube first started, when Facebook and Twitter first started, there weren't algorithms.
It was reverse chronological feeds.
The content that dominated YouTube, Was any thumbnail with boobs in it.
I'm not trying to be crude, but that's true.
dan hollaway
Because YouTube's 93% men.
Of course it did.
tim pool
But even then, I guess the joke is, who's on the cover of a woman's magazine, a man or a woman?
dan hollaway
On the cover of a woman's magazine?
It's a woman.
tim pool
Who's on the cover of a men's magazine?
A woman, exactly.
It should be.
Right. And so women have no problem clicking on these things, maybe not at higher frequencies, but men will always.
And so it didn't matter what the content was.
Early YouTube had a problem where someone would make a video where it was just like a black screen with a timer, but the thumbnail would be, you know, a hot woman, and it would have millions of views.
So YouTube said, okay, when we do nothing, people flood the zone with insane garbage that's pissing off our users because they think they're clicking a beautiful...
Okay, here's what we can do.
A light touch.
Thumbnail fraud.
If your thumbnail does not represent the video, we can ban you from the platform.
dan hollaway
And they did other smaller things, too, like a view doesn't count until it's 7 seconds or 10 seconds or 13 or whatever.
They changed it over time.
tim pool
Now it's 30. Remember the days of old 301 plus?
dan hollaway
Oh, yeah.
tim pool
Early YouTube, any video that exceeded 301 views within a short period of time would freeze at 301, and you knew.
It's like, ooh, it's getting a lot of views.
I wonder what the number's going to be.
So that's the issue of do nothing.
You do nothing, and you get garbage, pure garbage, because then the algorithm is simply the human algorithm.
So we want sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and that'll be the only content.
So YouTube said, the problem is that results in people leaving the platform because people would click on this video and get nothing and say, that's not what I wanted.
I'm getting frustrated and leave.
So they implemented rules.
Then the advertisers, a long story short, they started making a bunch of changes.
One of the issues with social media was too much content was being posted.
So YouTube has completely abandoned subscribers.
Subscribers mean literally nothing.
To everybody watching this show right now, hit the notification bell and make sure, because you have to say this, YouTube warns you.
How many of your subscribers actually have selected the notification bell?
And now the notification bell doesn't even work either.
The argument was, when you subscribe to a channel...
You will get a notification when that channel produces a video, and those are the videos you will get on the front page.
dan hollaway
But I only send several notifications per day.
tim pool
Not at first.
Right. So what happened was people started getting angry.
I'm getting too many emails every day.
And YouTube said, you subscribed to these channels.
Unsubscribe, but I don't want to.
It's like, okay, then we're going to limit the notifications you can receive.
People then started subscribing to too many.
So they were subscribed to too many, so when they would go to the front page, it would be a random spattering, and now they weren't watching anything.
So YouTube said, we're going to have to decide for you.
Now on YouTube, 40% on average of a channel's viewership are unsubscribed and do not subscribe, but they watch regularly, which is nuts.
dan hollaway
That's crazy.
brett dasovic
What's the percentage for this channel?
unidentified
I think it's 40. 60-40?
tim pool
Actually, it's less.
It might be like 25-30.
brett dasovic
Ours is like split 50-50.
Yeah. Like, it's about 50% is unsubscribed.
dan hollaway
We're talking about a mountain of content.
I think it's over 700,000 hours of content uploaded to YouTube daily now.
700,000 hours.
tim pool
You know what's the funniest thing about YouTube?
I actually, I was meeting with Google back in like 2012 at Google HQ and talking to them about their plans and what they were doing.
They wanted to compete with Netflix.
Explicitly. The YouTube managers, I'm sitting in the Google room at lunch, and they said, Netflix is stealing all of our users.
And I said, you're not going to compete with Netflix.
You're insane.
Before Netflix existed with online streaming, YouTube had all digital viewership.
People had nowhere else to go.
That's why Vice documentaries were so big, because it was long-form content.
So YouTube said, let's prioritize videos that are at least 10 minutes long, with a high watch time, That way, we start getting more Vice documentary style videos.
What did they get?
Video game streams and podcasts.
How did they respond?
No, this is not what we want.
Ban them.
Ban them all.
We don't want video podcasts.
brett dasovic
And they can't compete with the streaming services with documentaries anyways because they get them out.
The infrastructure is so well built that they get documentaries done two days after a story breaks.
dan hollaway
Which is really funny too now because YouTube's heavily invested in live sports.
tim pool
Oh, yeah.
dan hollaway
As well.
brett dasovic
And so, I mean, Netflix is getting into that as well.
dan hollaway
Oh, yeah.
Netflix has WWE now, which is crazy.
tim pool
You know, what I will say is really fascinating is 10 years ago, I predicted fame would be over in the next 10, 20 years.
And I stand by that largely except in sports.
And it's because sports leagues can only be so big as a league, whereas media distribution can be an infinite number of channels.
dan hollaway
You just described why a fiat currency is stupid, by the way.
Explain. Because there's a finite amount of real currency.
And a fiat currency is printing more, which means it has no intrinsic value.
brett dasovic
Indeed. So where do you draw the line at celebrities?
Who's going to be the last celebrity?
dan hollaway
Having 200,000 people that know who you are isn't really a celebrity in the way that we think of it.
tim pool
Right. So I was at NAB in the Netherlands having this discussion, and some guy said...
You're wrong.
There will always be celebrities, athletes.
He's like, the messy, or I can't remember who he mentioned at the time, but like, the top soccer player in the world is always going to be super famous.
And I said, I disagreed.
I would actually split the difference now and say he was largely right about that I was wrong, but he wasn't as right as he thought.
The amount of people who are going to know who the top basketball player is goes down, but they will still maintain celebrity status more so than...
Any other area of media.
Because there's only so many teams.
Only so many games.
So right now for media, some people watch CNN.
Some. Some people watch Joe Rogan.
Some people watch Jeremy Hambly.
Some people watch Russell Brand.
Sorry, Russell.
Russell Brand.
Some people watch Timcast IRL.
I think Russell's great, by the way.
That was a slip of the tongue.
dan hollaway
Whatever you think of him, Bland is the last thing you can call him.
unidentified
Right, right, right.
tim pool
But the point is, it's not one show anymore.
There's even, you know, with all due respect to Joe Rogan, based on the current podcast stats across the board, his numbers have decreased substantially from where they were several years ago because more and more shows keep emerging.
And people are dispersing.
So some people, you know, I went on a radio show in New York and the guy said, man, you're like the king of the internet.
And I'm like, oh, come on, bro.
We have like two million subs.
It's a big show, but...
dan hollaway
There's two billion people on YouTube.
tim pool
Yeah, and there are shows that get...
A million, two million per night, and we're doing six, seven hundred thousand.
So, you know, we're big, but he watches the show.
And his friends watch the show.
There are so many shows, there's going to be mid-level fame, but then athletes, because they're not going to make more soccer leagues, more World Cups, that fame will still be there.
brett dasovic
Yeah, Ronaldo will still be the most subscribed person on social media.
dan hollaway
Yeah, we might be going through just like a modality change.
tim pool
Real quick, someone superchatted this the other day.
Taylor Swift is considered to be a megastar right now, but she's pulling in a fraction, a tiny fraction of what Metallica pulls in.
And that is the celebrity superstar of the day.
And she gets nowhere near...
What was that video from the 90s of Metallica playing in Germany or whatever?
unidentified
There's like 15 million people or something.
dan hollaway
It was Russia.
brett dasovic
It was Phil when you need him.
We need Phil to talk about that.
dan hollaway
It was Russia, for sure, yeah.
I can't remember how many people were there, but it was like a lot of fucking people.
Oh, excuse me, sorry about that.
There was a lot of people there.
tim pool
In 1991.
dan hollaway
91, yeah.
That's insane.
Yeah, it's wild.
So we might be reaching the point...
tim pool
1.6 million people in attendance.
dan hollaway
This might be like a natural process of the physical world that's happening right now, to be honest, because...
If you think about the counterbalance between nuclear fusion and gravity in a star, it's what holds it together, right?
Well, it continues to explode.
At some point, it gets dysregulated, turns to iron in the core, and it blows up, or it becomes a red giant.
Whatever happens, right?
I think we're seeing some decentralization in media that isn't planned.
It's just happening as a natural result.
There's too much.
There's too much.
Nobody in your lifetime is going to watch one day's worth of YouTube.
No. It's 720,000 hours a day.
You won't watch that much in your entire lifetime.
Nobody will, right?
brett dasovic
Most people aren't going to be able to do that with regular entertainment.
Exactly. That's the thing I laugh about.
People are like, we need to make great new shows.
I'm like, bro, there is enough stuff out there from the last 30 years that you could watch everything.
You wouldn't be able to watch everything if you tried.
dan hollaway
But the scale is way different now.
So that's the problem we're having.
Our brains didn't evolve to be constantly impacted by attention to media like this.
So what's the natural?
Reaction for a human being.
I'm going to narrow my focus down and just look at this.
So to your fans, Tim, you are a celebrity, right?
And you always will be, even though it's not what Michael Jordan was at any given point.
And it never will be again, probably.
I think you're right about that.
I think it's also affecting our modalities of communication.
We've gone in this big circle where we started out around a campfire, listening to the wise old dude tell stories about our ancestors.
And then we kind of graduated to sitting around a campfire, listening to somebody read from a book after the printing press.
And then we went to sitting around a ritual.
So, Taylor Swift, her largest show ever.
tim pool
96,006 attendees.
Metallica, 1.6 million.
dan hollaway
That's how many were at that Russian show?
1.6?
tim pool
1.6 million.
To be fair, however, looking it up, after the Black Album tour, wherever we may roam, Metallica was getting 40,000 plus, many around 60,000.
Taylor Swift currently does around 60,000.
So, you know...
brett dasovic
Comparable. And what you're saying about celebrities are a result of institutions.
So when you say Michael Jordan, the institution is basketball or LeBron James.
When we talk Michael Jackson, you're talking about the music industry, which are built up by large-scale companies that put millions of dollars into this one individual because the return on investment is very, very high around that one person.
Now you have institutions like platforms, which would be like YouTube here, where somebody can, in a decentralized manner, build up a following of their own, but it's fractured compared to the size of it.
dan hollaway
It also tracks with what we value as a civilization, not the sport or the type of entertainment, but the type of person.
Because we go from, I guess, people like Jimmy Stewart, who interrupted his career multiple times to go serve in the U.S.
military, or Bob Feller, or Ted Williams, or Joey D., all these guys that left highly successful entertainment.
We went from that to the Kardashians over the course of 40, 50 years.
And, you know, they're out there on the hustle.
They're making their money.
No hate, I guess.
But, you know, if you...
As a society, admire people who, to your point from earlier, who sacrifice to something greater than themselves versus just looking in the mirror.
We wrote a story about this.
It's called Narcissus.
It's where the word came from.
He looked in the water so much at his own reflection that he turned into flowers, right?
That's not a guidebook.
That's a warning.
tim pool
So I think maybe what we should do is seize all of the big tech platforms and then what we do is alter the algorithms to only...
The only channels that do well will be firefighters, police, EMTs, and U.S. service personnel.
So you will get a little bit of music here and there, but all the kids growing up are going to see...
dan hollaway
I mean, Elvis was in the Army.
tim pool
Indeed he was.
dan hollaway
Maybe Hendrix was in the Army.
He was in the 101st Airborne.
tim pool
There you go.
I am kidding, by the way.
I wouldn't prefer these things.
brett dasovic
This is one of the reasons that entertainment is worse now, is that the people who have gotten into these industries haven't lived the lives that those in the past have.
Served in the military, did something really, really monumental with their life before they found their calling in the arts, right?
They've got Adam Driver.
I think Adam Driver was a Marine.
They've got that going for him now.
dan hollaway
Not to say there are good people in Hollywood either.
There's plenty.
I know a lot of them.
You've got a book.
Nick Searcy was in Hollywood for a long time.
He's a good dude.
brett dasovic
Everybody should watch Justified if you haven't seen Justified.
tim pool
Fantastic. Don't watch Severance.
dan hollaway
He's not in that, I don't think.
He was in Justified.
unidentified
I'm just ragging on Severance.
dan hollaway
Is there something like an anti-ad?
Is that a thing?
tim pool
I don't know.
unidentified
Just keep talking trash about Severance and sending them an invoice?
tim pool
Actually, the best thing I could do if I want to hurt the show is go into liberal circles talking about it's the best show ever and they should watch it.
dan hollaway
Or you could just play it on your show and people would see how bad it sucks.
tim pool
I don't need to get into all that.
I was just joking, but I hate that show.
And season two is really...
Season one, I give a C-.
It's not that it's bad.
It's just not good.
But season two is remarkably bad.
dan hollaway
I haven't seen season two.
tim pool
Remarkably bad.
dan hollaway
I'm not going to watch it then.
tim pool
Spoiler alert.
There's an episode that ends with a major plot development in the middle of it.
And then the next episode completely erases it from happening.
Totally changes the subject.
And then so I'm skipping through being like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I'm not in this situation where I'm watching a TV and I can't skip.
So when I turn on the next episode, and I'm like, I want to know what the story is.
I'm just fast-forwarding.
And I'm like, uh...
I look around, I'm like, guys, what just happened?
Like, the episode was intense.
Shocking moment.
High-pitched music.
And then a shock!
And then I'm like, whoa, next episode?
Nothing. So I skip the episode.
The next episode starts.
Nothing. And then he talks to a character and says, that thing?
It's over.
And I was like, what?
dan hollaway
Wow! That's really bad writing.
tim pool
Really bad writing.
brett dasovic
Just go re-watch The Wire.
dan hollaway
Yeah, The Wire's great.
brett dasovic
Just go re-watch The Wire.
dan hollaway
Yeah. The Wire's great.
You can actually go participate.
It's right down the road.
brett dasovic
It literally is.
tim pool
You can go participate.
brett dasovic
It's still like that.
tim pool
I started watching it.
I've never seen it.
dan hollaway
The Wire?
Yeah. Oh, it's really good, yeah.
tim pool
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've heard great things.
dan hollaway
Yes. They jumped the shark a little bit in the final season with the serial killer stuff.
brett dasovic
I stick to, like, the first three.
dan hollaway
Yeah, yeah.
It was still good.
tim pool
Yeah. Daredevil Born Again is a C-minus show, but considering how bad Severance is, wow.
Daredevil Born Again is a C-minus show.
brett dasovic
I'm two episodes behind.
Have you gotten to the...
Are you caught up?
tim pool
Oh, yeah.
brett dasovic
Okay. The episode, like...
Episode 3 with the guy who gets caught stealing the fiddle faddles might have been the worst writing I've ever seen on television ever.
He is the least sympathetic person in the history of television.
dan hollaway
Is he supposed to be, though?
brett dasovic
No, I think you're supposed to sympathize with this guy who gets caught stealing.
tim pool
No, because Matt Murdock doesn't.
brett dasovic
I don't buy that the writers are that nuanced.
tim pool
I don't know.
I mean...
brett dasovic
He still goes and...
Unless you're saying that the argument here is that even though he disagrees with him, he goes and pleads his case because that's his job to the...
dan hollaway
Well, that's what John Adams did, right?
brett dasovic
Okay, so he pleads his case to this lady and he talks about the failure...
unidentified
That was awesome.
brett dasovic
He talks about the failure of...
That was the best scene in the show.
But he talks about the failures of broken windows policy and stuff like that.
It's the worst writing and the character...
tim pool
I disagree.
brett dasovic
That he's the worst character?
He's the worst character.
tim pool
No, no, no.
I didn't think it was like...
Lord of the Rings or anything.
So basically there's a guy, he steals five boxes of fiddle-faddle garbage snacks.
He starts complaining about how he's poor.
He can't get a job.
Nobody wants to hire a felon.
And he's hungry, so he steals.
Then they lock him up again.
Now he can't get welfare.
Now he has no food.
Now he's hungry again.
The system is busted.
It's not his fault, so he refused to go to prison.
And Murdoch is like, you stole.
You're going to jail.
dan hollaway
It's a real liar, liar.
brett dasovic
The point is, there is a way to write that character with a tiny bit of introspection that makes you feel for him.
Like, okay, the system is broken, okay?
There are a lot of ways in which once you find yourself...
One bad decision leads you down a path of just absolute hell that you can't control.
But he doesn't have a second of introspection.
tim pool
That's not what I took from it.
What I took from it was there are these people who want to be serial criminals who think they're justified in doing so and they should go to jail.
And so what happens is Matt Murdock, lawyer, he goes to the prosecution and he goes...
What are you giving him?
And she's like, 30 days.
And he's like, come on.
brett dasovic
That scene was great.
That was the best scene they've done in the show.
tim pool
He wants probation.
And she's like, are you joking?
He's been arrested several times already for the same thing.
And then you see them negotiate.
And she goes...
And then he finally talks her down to 10 days and he goes, yes!
And then he goes, I got you 10 days.
And the guy's like, no, I ain't going to jail.
I want to go to court.
And then Matt Murdock is like, you stole.
You're going to jail.
Take your 10 days!
brett dasovic
There's a point in which he could have been thankful for getting the 10 days where he has a moment of self-reflection.
He goes, thank you.
Thank you for the 10 days.
He doesn't even get that.
tim pool
The next episode...
So you haven't watched after that?
brett dasovic
I'm too behind.
tim pool
Well, there's...
brett dasovic
I'm like, I finished those two.
I finished that one and the one after it.
I'm not up to you.
I haven't watched that one yet.
tim pool
So, this episode is...
dan hollaway
Is Vincent D'Onofrio back and everything?
tim pool
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
brett dasovic
Skinny Vincent D'Onofrio.
dan hollaway
Oh, he's skinny now.
tim pool
He's getting fat again.
dan hollaway
Oh, good.
Yeah. Wait, wasn't he just fat in that Godfather's Harlem thing?
When did he get skinny?
brett dasovic
Okay, skinny is relative.
He's skinnier than he was when he played the Kingpin in the Netflix version.
dan hollaway
He was a big boy back then.
tim pool
The next episode of Daredevil, it may as well be a one-off.
Short film?
Unrelated to anything?
brett dasovic
It was.
That was the only one from the original set of order that they did for this series that didn't get edited or reshot in any way.
So that was shot in the original run when they first started trying to make Daredevil Born Again.
They scrapped everything.
Episode 2 had some reshoots.
Episode 5 is left completely alone.
That's why it feels so different.
tim pool
Well, it's a standalone.
Yes. It's a completely standalone episode.
It's just good Daredevil fun.
He just beats up a bunch of bad guys.
unidentified
Sometimes you need to.
tim pool
Oh, dude.
dan hollaway
He shatters a guy's leg.
tim pool
He's fighting a bad guy, and let me just say, they show, he knocks him down, and then the guy is leaning against the wall, and his leg is straight, and he jumps on his knee.
dan hollaway
Maybe he learned something from Jon Bernthal there on that one.
tim pool
Well, the original Daredevil on Netflix was pretty brutal.
And now it's kind of not, but this was, so I appreciated it.
brett dasovic
The first six episodes, the first arc of the Punisher in season two of Daredevil is some of the best writing that they've done on television.
dan hollaway
Yeah. It was pretty good.
tim pool
Punisher was great, but now it's Disney-fied.
brett dasovic
Even the Punisher show wasn't really that great because the CIA arc for that doesn't actually make sense for the character.
tim pool
No. Yeah, but what other good shows we got going on right now?
We're waiting for Tulsa King, right?
That show's great.
It's crazy that Stallone's like 900 years old.
brett dasovic
He's like in his 70s and he's just jacked.
tim pool
I know.
Have you seen Tulsa King?
dan hollaway
Oh yeah.
I only watched the first season.
I watched season two.
brett dasovic
Also, through the magic of medicine, Dana Delaney has aged back 10 years as well.
dan hollaway
Well, you know, they can reverse aging in mice now.
You've seen this, I'm sure.
tim pool
What I like in a show is like, Sylvester Stallone's character in Tulsa King is kind of a dick.
But he's kind of alright, too.
dan hollaway
That's just a guy from 25 years ago.
tim pool
Right. But so, like, he does some bad stuff, but he protects the people that work with him, and when you wrong him, he wins.
I like that new show.
dan hollaway
The anti-hero model works really well.
Tony Soprano works really well, right?
Breaking Bad worked really well.
Vic Mackey worked really well.
Jax Teller worked really well.
Anti-heroes do well.
tim pool
I don't mean just anti-hero.
I like watching...
brett dasovic
He has a moral code.
tim pool
Right, but what I mean is, he doesn't deserve you to be the bad guy to him, and when you try, he destroys you.
That's what I like.
You know, I like the scene where the guys at the bar are like, hey man, I don't want to fight, leave me alone.
And the guy picks a fight, and then he gets crushed.
And the dude's like, I told you not to fight me.
I like those scenes, where the honorable guy is like, I'm trying to avoid the conflict here, buddy.
dan hollaway
Yeah, like that scene early on in the...
When Tom Cruise played Jack Reacher, where he was like, remember, you wanted this.
brett dasovic
The guy's outside of the bar.
Yes. When they work very hard to make him look taller.
dan hollaway
Yeah, because Jack Reacher in the book is 6'4", 6'5".
The guy playing him now is quite a bit closer.
brett dasovic
I maintain that that first Jack Reacher film is actually really good.
It's a great movie.
The fact that he isn't necessarily accurate as to the...
dan hollaway
Well, if you'd never heard of Jack Reacher before, that's a great movie.
tim pool
But it's because Cruise wanted to make the film, right?
dan hollaway
It only got made because...
brett dasovic
They were trying to make Jai Courtney a thing at the time.
It didn't really work out, but he was great as a bad guy.
dan hollaway
He was good on Rome.
They tried him...
tim pool
Say what you will about Tom Cruise.
I love his movies.
dan hollaway
He's the best entertainer.
brett dasovic
I have the Tom Cruise...
I have the Tom Cruise candle.
Vote of candle.
tim pool
Oh, yeah.
dan hollaway
I think he's the best entertainer of our lives.
tim pool
You know who else I really like?
You give me a movie.
I don't care the plot.
Jason Statham goes around beating the crap out of people.
I'm gonna watch.
brett dasovic
I'm going to see Working Man this weekend.
dan hollaway
He's on a string of these.
Beekeeper and Working Man are the same movie.
Exactly. It's literally the same movie, and it's just like, oh, we're calling it Working Man now.
tim pool
I'll watch every single one.
dan hollaway
I'll watch it, too.
tim pool
Every single one.
dan hollaway
There's going to be a couple of sequels, I think, to Beekeeper.
I think there's two more of those coming.
tim pool
I'm down.
brett dasovic
It's because, I mean, David Ayer's kind of single-handedly going to bring back the mid-budget movie, mid-budget-esque, because he's got a fairly good reputation, Suicide Squad notwithstanding.
That wasn't his fault.
You know, I'm looking forward to that one.
But, you know, go back and watch The Transporter.
The Transporter is amazing now.
By today's, like, it kind of gets lost in the weeds at that time period because there were so many movies like that being made.
But you go back and you rewatch it now and it's just so much fun.
dan hollaway
I mean, to be honest, Transporter was a better version.
Of the Fast and Furious movies, in my opinion.
Like, I'm not a huge Fast and Furious.
tim pool
Landman is really good.
dan hollaway
Landman's great, yeah.
tim pool
Really great show.
unidentified
I feel like The Meg, though, is kind of where I draw the line.
I don't know.
brett dasovic
I didn't see The Meg.
unidentified
Yeah, that one didn't hit as hard.
tim pool
Oh, Jason Statham's in it, right?
Yeah, but he's not traveling around beating the crap out of people.
He's fighting a shark.
unidentified
He's just beating the crap out of a big-ass fish.
dan hollaway
It's a Megalodon?
brett dasovic
Yeah. You know some executive is like, how about instead of bad guys?
It's a shark.
It's very 80s Hollywood.
tim pool
The story is deep underwater there's like this layer of some material and underneath it there's a bunch of megalodons that can't penetrate through it and then something breaks through and the...
Megalon gets through it or whatever.
dan hollaway
It's probably graphene down there.
I'm glad Ian's up.
brett dasovic
I will say, however, if anybody wants to talk to you about the difference between honest diversity and forced diversity in Hollywood, The Fast and the Furious is the movie you bring up if you want to talk about a movie that's actually diverse, that nobody actually talks about it being diverse.
In fact, they talked about making a female Fast and the Furious movie, and then everybody crapped on it because nobody wants it to be forced into you.
tim pool
We're going to go to your chats, my friends, so smash that like button, share the show.
With everyone you know, give us a like.
Every like you give represents one more federal employee getting fired.
I wonder how many people are gonna be like, I'm not gonna like that.
brett dasovic
All the homes on sale in Loudoun County.
tim pool
Alright, let's go.
We'll start with Evan for us.
Can anyone tell me if there are actual differences between gender and sex?
I have a family member who's studying clinical psychology and I suppose there's supposed to be actual differences.
Is it BS?
It is BS.
It was used interchangeably forever.
And now, to suit the needs of leftists, whose ideology makes no sense, they decided there are two different things.
Ask them what gender means, and they can't tell you.
They would define gender as self-expression in law, which is what they do in most jurisdictions, and that literally means personality.
So gender then means nothing.
brett dasovic
Or they give you the, it's a spectrum, and then don't explain what that means either.
tim pool
Yeah. Tyler Today says, I love the show and the Timcast Discord community.
Tim, need help to reach 100 followers on Rumble by Monday?
Please shout me out, Tyler Today News.
Well, best of luck.
Good sir.
Best of luck.
Freedom Sauce says, Utah just became the first state to ban fluoride in public drinking water.
Let's go.
brett dasovic
Wow. And pride flags in government buildings, if I remember correctly?
Or was that somebody else?
dan hollaway
Wow. Meanwhile, Colorado's trying to outlaw hunting rifles, which is not great.
brett dasovic
Could be worse, could be ninja swords.
tim pool
Ninja swords.
brett dasovic
Ninja swords.
dan hollaway
Do you have this law from the UK that they're trying to get passed this upcoming week?
They're trying to vote on it this upcoming week.
tim pool
Yeah, is it specifically katanas?
dan hollaway
I want to know what the word they use.
brett dasovic
I hope it actually is ninja swords.
dan hollaway
Is there going to be a British?
Commonwealth law that says that ninja swords, literally ninja swords, that phrase are illegal.
brett dasovic
I hope that's actually what they use.
dan hollaway
Please tell me that that's true.
tim pool
So does this include wakazashi as well?
brett dasovic
Little sword, right?
tim pool
Yeah, because when they would fight indoors, you had the long sword for outside and the short sword for inside?
brett dasovic
The short one's the wakazashi, right?
tim pool
Yeah. But that's a samurai sword.
brett dasovic
Okay, that's gonna be the best.
Somebody's like, ninja swords are banned.
You guys are like, yeah, this is a samurai sword.
It's different.
dan hollaway
Actually, he's gonna do the voice too.
Actually, this is a samurai sword?
tim pool
What if it's a Chinese jian?
A Chinese broadsword?
Is that okay?
dan hollaway
Yeah, and then call them racist because this is not a ninja sword.
Ninjas are Japanese.
This is Chinese.
unidentified
You racist.
tim pool
Is a British claymore banned?
Scotty. Scottish?
There you go.
Scottish Claymore?
dan hollaway
I don't think that was ever illegal there.
tim pool
Are they just banning Asian sorts because they're racist?
dan hollaway
Yes. You gotta ask the questions.
tim pool
Alright, what do we got?
Kyle says, Trump should sign dozens of executive orders on July 4th that shrink government and strengthen our freedoms.
It would then be on us to encourage our reps to sign them into law, which should be first.
Or you can just do it and then say, sue me.
You know?
There was a really great point that was brought up.
On the culture war this morning, we were debating the legalities of Trump's actions, principally the deportations of Mahmoud Khalil.
And the liberal fellow argued, you can't sign away your rights.
The conservative fellow argued, as a condition of visa and entry, you can be deported, you can't speak, you can't do these things, you can't be disruptive.
The liberal argued...
Free speech applies to all that are here, whether legally or otherwise.
The First Amendment applies to everybody.
And you can't waive your rights just because you're coming here.
To which I countered, in order to buy a gun in this country, you are legally required to waive your Fifth Amendment rights.
Why do we tolerate something like that?
So, you know, I think that's something that actually needs to be addressed.
It's been brought up many times by gun rights advocates that the next form requires you to self-incriminate.
And this is what Hunter Biden refused to do.
So I defended Hunter Biden.
I was on his side with this one.
He should have won on that gun charge.
He should have taken it to the Supreme Court and won.
So I'll just stress.
If you would like to exercise your Second Amendment in this country, you forfeit your Fifth Amendment rights as it pertains to certain issues.
How is that constitutional?
dan hollaway
It's definitely not.
tim pool
Well, we got to win that one.
Yeah. Let's go.
I'm an American man says, hi, Tim, do a kickflip.
You know what we should do?
We should get a remote HDMI so we can actually, you know, free float around the room when we need to.
That'd be fun.
Because then someone could be like, oh, okay, maybe.
Actually, my legs are stiff from sitting here for three hours, so there ain't no way I'm landing a kickflip right now.
Actually, I could probably do it.
Maybe not in a couple years, I'll be too old.
unidentified
As long as it's not a front shove.
tim pool
Not a front shove.
A pop shove, maybe.
Kenneth Hart says, the culture war was exhausting today.
My wife is here after 10 months on 10-year green card.
It took two months to prove she wasn't a member of Filipino terror group.
We were both clearly warned if she offends the U.S.
in any way, she is out.
dan hollaway
I think that's a pretty reasonable standard, to be honest.
Like, you're here, if you're not a citizen, or you haven't received a green card specifically, not a visa yet, why should the entirety of the protection of our natural rights extend to you, right?
I think that's a reasonable question for people to ask.
Because the cost, the price for entry used to be assimilation.
And that was a reasonable thing.
Even Jefferson said this, that a great deal of immigration at one time could disrupt our natural culture in America.
He said that in 1801, I believe.
It seems like...
It used to just be that way.
It used to just be that the price for entry was assimilation and people all agreed to it.
They came here because they wanted to be American.
Now they come here for other reasons.
So maybe we need to take another look at that is all I'm saying.
tim pool
We have a great chat from Sinov1.
He says, Lotus Eaters said they weren't even Japanese.
They were Somali.
So now the Somalis have both pirates and ninjas.
We're done for.
I was going to say something like they're light years ahead of us.
You know.
One can only be jealous.
dan hollaway
I don't know what timeline Somalis are light years ahead of us on, but that's a timeline.
tim pool
They have ninjas and pirates.
I think that this argument over constitutionality and rights and everything has become redundant and it is everyone deluding themselves.
So I just, you know, and I argue this to both the liberal and the conservative gentlemen.
They both disagreed and I disagree with them.
When the left justifies their arrest of Donald Trump's lawyers because Well, they weren't just providing legal advice.
The legal advice was for criminal endeavors.
It's like, what codified law?
RICO. What RICO?
Well, they were trying to overturn an election.
You decide...
I'm done.
The left is going to argue whatever they want, whenever they want, to be able to do whatever they want, and the right tends to let them.
So what's the point of even arguing?
It's a violation of the free speech of Mahmoud Khalil if he's deported.
I'm like, he wasn't being deported for his speech.
He's being deported because he's a threat to national security under, what is it, 237 Subsection A or whatever?
dan hollaway
It's 1180 and 1220, I think, in 8 USC when it comes to visa, even immaterial.
Support of any kind of foreign terror group or any kind of foreign adversary can get you ejected immediately if you're here on a visa.
Well, you can agree or disagree that that's correct or just or whatever, but it's legal.
tim pool
That's the law, right?
The reality is what we deem to be allowable or not is meaningless because it goes to the courts and the courts make determinations.
And the courts are comprised of judges who are put in power by those who held the power.
So really, here's what it is.
If the economy is good or bad, someone's going to win.
When they do, we're then hoping the Supreme Court shifts so that we can put appointees on.
Lucky for Donald Trump.
He ends up getting lucky enough that Hillary Clinton sucked and the economy was bad enough that people would vote for him.
He gets to put in three conservative justices, which now starts siding across the board with the worldview of Trump.
Otherwise, I'm sitting here listening to lawyers be like, well, in this year they said this, and this year they said this, and I'm like, I don't care at all who said what.
The question is, right now, do we in society tolerate what they're doing?
And the left and the right are completely bifurcated on what they deem to be moral and just.
So the left is going to argue for their whims and power when they want.
The right is going to do the same.
I think the right is comprised of a moral worldview that is correct, and the left are degenerate amoral crackpots.
The left think the inverse.
The right is an evil cult, whatever.
I don't need to argue with people who...
I think are degenerate and amoral and are doing things that defy moral and principle.
But they're going to do that and accuse me of doing the inverse.
I'm like, then why are we going to have a conversation?
The question is, to what degree of force is being exerted to implement our worldviews?
I am happy with nonviolent court cases.
I don't want any chaos or conflict.
And if we can all agree that if the judge bangs the gavel, the battle is over, fine.
The problem is the left isn't doing that.
They're firebombing Teslas.
They're shooting up Teslas.
They're beating people in the street.
So I don't know where this goes, but this argument that people have that it is or is not allowed in the Constitution is completely meaningless.
Right now you have, under the Immigration and Naturalization Act, everything Trump did is allowed.
Yet somehow a court is still saying it's not allowed.
Well, clearly the interpretation is meaningless then.
dan hollaway
Well, even the reasons that have been given for some of these injunctions, like the one that pertained to transgender people in the military, what the judge says that was...
I'm sorry, there's no constitutional guarantee of not being demeaned at some point.
So what the hell are you talking about?
tim pool
Well, so I asked him, is it cruel and unusual punishment to put a male prisoner in a female prison?
dan hollaway
It is for the females.
tim pool
Not according to the left.
For the left, the cruel and unusual punishment is a trans person being put with males.
dan hollaway
Sure, yeah.
tim pool
Okay, so now the 8th just said there shall be no cruel and unusual punishment.
So what are we allowed to do?
Nobody agrees.
So the left and the right are both going to claim they're following the Constitution and the other side is unconstitutional.
dan hollaway
Do you think it's wise that we keep referring back to this?
And I mean the minutia of the law, like common law, constitution, and so on, case law that's happened over the time.
Do you think it's wise for us to do that?
And not just like, let's have a couple of principles that we definitely agree on, and then every generation will figure out the next thing.
I remember...
tim pool
Well, principles are meaningless is the point.
dan hollaway
To some degree, but...
Jefferson wrote a letter to James Madison when he became president, or right before he became president, and he said, the earth belongs always to the living generation.
They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, and as they please during their time here, and however they see fit.
Basically, life belongs to the living, not to 250 years ago.
And I'm not saying, obviously, the...
Bill of Rights is a very important thing to us, and I think most people should agree on the underlying principle of that.
And if you don't, there's probably something messed up.
tim pool
I disagree.
dan hollaway
On which part?
tim pool
The Bill of Rights is indeterminate.
The seven articles of the Constitution are fair and fine.
They outline the structure of governance, the three branches, etc.
First of all, the Second Amendment has never been protected.
Never. And it's only until 2008 and then 2010 that we actually had a right in this country to bear arms, despite the fact it literally says.
dan hollaway
Technically speaking, that is true, yeah.
tim pool
I mean, literally speaking.
dan hollaway
I mean, we operated as if we did, but there was no codified law that actually said it.
We just assumed that that was the case.
tim pool
Except you'd be arrested and charged for having a gun in numerous places, which triggered D.C. versus Heller and then McDonald's v.
Chicago. Free speech has never been protected in this country.
Obviously, in the 70s, George Carlin got arrested for swearing at a nightclub doing comedy.
But even before then, when they codified and established the Bill of Rights, you could be arrested for blasphemy.
You could be arrested for public obscenity, which was things you spoke.
So they did not deem those things to be free speech.
You have, once again, the Eighth Amendment, no cruel and unusual punishment.
But we...
Have consistently had cruel, unusual punishment.
How about, in recent times, the mockery of men who are raped in prison, and that is the punishment you are told you will get.
So, everybody always says...
dan hollaway
Even the 9th and 10th.
tim pool
Oh, right, like...
dan hollaway
We don't actually operate under a federalist society in any meaningful way, right?
I mean, that's just not true.
tim pool
Now, the 7th Amendment...
The 7th Amendment is my favorite, because we have absolutely...
This one makes the least amount of sense.
dan hollaway
It makes the least sense of any of the amendments, for sure.
tim pool
Well, it's because of inflation.
And because the Federal Reserve destroyed our system.
Do you guys know what the Seventh Amendment is?
The right to a civil jury trial for matters $20 or more.
dan hollaway
It's the one...
tim pool
$20 back then was $200.
dan hollaway
Yeah, it's the one...
Even if it was a gajillion back then.
You know what I mean?
It's like, that's a completely...
The expectation was when they wrote the Bill of Rights that it was going to be a timeless document that we could refer to and adjudicate based on the circumstances of today.
That was supposed to be the point.
How the hell does the Seventh Amendment apply to that in any meaningful way?
It's just nonsense.
That's like the redheaded stepchild of the amendments.
tim pool
So, the Ninth Amendment, the enumeration of the Constitution of certain rights should not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people, but we haven't ever defined them.
dan hollaway
No, we haven't.
Also, to the point you made a minute ago, the adjudication of the Second Amendment that happens at the federal level puts you in hot water with the Fifth, right?
So you have, like, the standard for purchasing certain types of weapons has been codified in law to violate the Ninth and the Fifth.
And the second.
tim pool
What the hell?
The NFA?
I mean, this is another instance where you have to waive your rights in order to try and exercise some of your rights, not to mention the purchase of literally any weapon.
And the Tenth Amendment, of course, the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the states are reserved to the states, respectively, or to the people.
Yeah, seriously.
dan hollaway
That's the least respected thing that's ever been written on paper.
Right. Give me a break.
Come on, man.
tim pool
Yeah, the federal government applies laws and then goes and enforces them wherever they want.
So my point is this.
Everybody tries to use the Constitution.
All they're really saying is, I bet I can make an argument that will convince enough people who don't pay attention to agree with me.
This piece of paper gives me an argument.
The liberals say...
I will use the exact same document and argue the inverse, notably the Second Amendment.
They argue that you've got to be in a militia.
dan hollaway
I mean, that's basically just an ontological argument, but about the laws of our country.
It's a metaphysical discussion.
It doesn't have any basis in reality because you're operating on two different data sets, your facts and my facts at that point, and our interpretation is based on those facts.
Right. It's silly if you think about it.
tim pool
In the Constitution, you have seven articles.
And they basically outline the structure of governance.
When people say it's unconstitutional, they're always referring to the Bill of Rights.
They're never referring to the actual structures of the Constitution.
Only until Trump, with Articles 1, 2, and 3, are they now arguing what Trump is doing is unconstitutional or otherwise, which is hilarious.
The Bill of Rights, so these things are clear-cut, the first articles.
The executive shall have the power, the judiciary shall interpret, blah, blah, blah.
But the amendments themselves...
So abridging the freedom of speech, it's been abridged the whole time and to this day.
And the other argument is the interpretation of these extends beyond just their initial meaning, the best example being the Third Amendment, which says, So a lot of people always ignore the Third.
They say, When do we have to worry about soldiers being in our houses?
This has been interpreted by the Supreme Court not to refer to soldiers, but to mean the government can't commandeer your house for any reason unless prescribed by law.
brett dasovic
So eminent domain?
tim pool
So arguably, yes.
But eminent domain is codified in law, so as prescribed, they're allowed to do it.
In which case, what's the point of the Third Amendment when it literally says Congress can just pass the law to overwrite it?
So my point ultimately is everybody wants to claim They're protected under certain amendments to live in the moral world they want, and the real problem this country has is there is no singular, cohesive, moral foundation.
dan hollaway
Right. So...
We should probably look into that.
tim pool
That's why I say we're in a culture war, and at this point, they're going to accuse anything Donald Trump does of being a constitutional crisis and unconstitutional.
So Trump is like, I have the legal authority to deport, you know, enemy combatants and illegal invaders that I declare.
They're now saying, no, you can't.
The Babylon Bee had a great article.
Donald Trump resigns from presidency to take a D.C. court, a more powerful D.C. circuit court judge position.
dan hollaway
Right. Of which there are what?
Well, I don't know about the D.C. circuit, but of the district courts that exist, I think there's like 680 some judges.
So any one of them would get to say no.
tim pool
Which is not true.
dan hollaway
The guy who got 80 million votes, you're not allowed.
tim pool
Right. Come on, man.
dan hollaway
Is this what we're doing here?
tim pool
And the question then is going to be, will Donald Trump exert authority to combat those who would seek to stop him?
And there's already been two zealots who tried to kill him.
We don't really know what happened with the first one.
The second one was pro-Ukraine.
Democrats, literally Democrats, I'm just not being cute, have arrested his lawyers in, I think, two different states, criminally charging his lawyers.
They've tried seizing his property, accusing him of crimes.
Will Donald Trump just say, That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Or is he going to say, if you want to play that game, I'll play that game all the same?
And I think the only thing we can do is hope for is that Donald Trump is willing to exhort all authorities and powers he has under his interpretation of the Constitution because the Democrats are operating under their interpretation of the Constitution.
And then we hope it doesn't come to any kind of extreme violence or anything and people chill out and then we get singular order.
dan hollaway
I would say we have to hope as well that Congress...
Codify some of this stuff and Trump can exit like Cincinnati's and not leave us with a succession problem with powers he created that are going to be abused by people in the future.
Yep. Like, that's a big thing.
I like J.D. Vance.
I think he's got a really good shot of winning moving forward.
People seem to like him, except for the extreme left.
And he's a very bright guy.
But this is always the problem with any kind of concentrated powers, the problem with succession.
Can you trust the next guy?
tim pool
But to be fair, the Democrats have nothing.
dan hollaway
They're talking about running Kamala and Walz again.
And I don't know, other than certainly Shapiro is an attractive candidate, but he says he doesn't want to run.
tim pool
He can't.
He's Jewish.
dan hollaway
He's Jewish.
He's got young kids.
A lot of reasons.
tim pool
Well, but I'm not trying to be cute.
I mean, Serge's laughing, but it's true.
dan hollaway
It's a hard sell right now.
To me, so he turned down Harris when she asked him.
Right. And the reason he turned it down is because he looked around at his friends on the left and were like, you guys hate me.
Why am I going to run for you?
tim pool
They would lose Michigan, and that was the concern.
brett dasovic
I have a question then.
So how many votes did Trump get in 2016?
And then 2020.
tim pool
What was that, 61?
dan hollaway
60-something, yeah.
brett dasovic
Okay, and then how many in 2020?
74. And then in 2024.
dan hollaway
I think it was 74 again.
tim pool
We got the real numbers.
Trump got 62.9.
Okay. And then in 2020...
Trump got 74.2 to Biden's 81.2.
dan hollaway
I think it was 74 in this one as well.
brett dasovic
And then 2024, Trump got 77.3 to Kamala's 75. Outside of the anomalous of 2020, what did the Democrats get in 2016 and 2020?
tim pool
2016, Hillary got 65. And then...
And then in 2024, Kamala got 75. Okay.
brett dasovic
So if they can run a candidate as bad as Kamala and get 74 million votes, is it not reasonable to think that unless they get a very, very, very good Republican candidate that can also coalesce a whole bunch of people under that banner again, that they run the risk of default...
Liberal Democrat types just voting for whoever is there and without a strong personality in place?
You don't think so?
tim pool
Because the census shift is going to pull like 12 votes or something.
So with mass deportations...
dan hollaway
I think California's losing two, right?
tim pool
Was it?
dan hollaway
California's losing two.
tim pool
It's going to be way worse than that.
Wow. Because of the mass deportations.
So when you look at net out-migration of blue states to red states, it's going to shift something like, what, seven or eight?
Then when you add in all the mass deportations, that's not a net plus for the Republican states in terms of migration.
It's a straight net negative for the blue states.
dan hollaway
Yeah, this is something that people don't understand about the Electoral College.
The census is what determines, not the voters or even registered voters or even citizens.
The census is what determines whether or not you get an extra.
It's, what is it, 780,000 people in a district or something like that?
tim pool
Yeah. So Democrats want illegal immigration so they get more votes for the president.
brett dasovic
And a legal servant class.
tim pool
Indeed. And more seats in Congress.
So this is the funny thing.
They argue illegal immigrants don't vote, and then the right says they do.
They don't.
They don't need to.
By merely existing in a district, they get an extra congressional rep, so the state has more power over everybody else.
dan hollaway
Yeah, which is funny because Trump's mass deportation is going to do more to protect our elections than any election law, any voter ID law.
tim pool
But I think that Democrats probably won't win, as Ezra Klein pointed out, as of right now.
The census shift, still five years away, is going to result in Democrats losing so many electoral votes that even if Kamala won Pennsylvania and Michigan in the last election, she could not have won.
So when you bring up the point about 75 million votes, maybe the next president, maybe J.D. Vance, doesn't get the popular vote, but the electoral college votes, it won't matter.
So we'll see.
Alright, let's grab one more here before we head on out.
Eric Skelly says the left vandalizing the Cybertrucks are turning them and owners into true cultural rebels due to just owning the vehicle could get you hurt.
Badass truck, badass owner, just like punk rock or being in a metal band.
We drove around in the Cybertruck.
Me and Cody and people were screaming at us.
dan hollaway
Well, do you go ahead and preempt it and tag up your own truck?
There's a guy driving around.
So I live in Dripping Springs, just west of Austin, right?
And there's a guy that drives a Cybertruck around, and it's covered in very detailed graffiti.
It was done on purpose.
tim pool
Oh, really?
dan hollaway
By him.
But not, like, months ago.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
dan hollaway
It's been cruising around for probably six, eight months now.
tim pool
My joke was that if anyone ever comes up to me yelling at me, I would just be like, don't look at me.
I didn't know Elon was going to go crazy, but as soon as he did, I bought a Cybertruck.
These things are great.
Yeah. All right, everybody.
Thank you so much for hanging out on this Friday.
We were chilling.
It's a slow news day.
You get what you get.
I know a lot of people are like, where's the news?
Sometimes, lack thereof, but we're going to hang out and have a conversation regardless because that's what we do.
So smash that like button.
Share the show with everyone you know.
Join the TimCast Discord server.
Get involved.
Don't just be a passive observer of the news.
Be an active participant.
You go to TimCast.com, you click join us.
Then the Discord instructions are right there, and you're hanging out with 20,000-plus individuals, and they've all got something to say, and they want to know what you've got to say, because one day, something you say, you may hear repeated by Donald Trump himself.
But the only way that's possible is if you share your ideas.
So you can follow me on X and Instagram, at TimCast.
Dan, do you want to shout anything out?
dan hollaway
Yeah, Drinking Bros Podcast, that's my main.
Then I have Citizen Podcast, which is a little bit more serious.
We interview people and talk about what it means to be an American citizen, what it really means.
tim pool
Right on.
Thanks for hanging out.
dan hollaway
Yes, sir.
unidentified
You can follow me, Cody McIntyre, on Instagram, and be sure to check out Boonies HQ on Instagram, YouTube, and sign up for the Discord for exclusive content and some member perks.
So get in there.
brett dasovic
Cool. Guys, if you want to follow me, I am on Instagram and on Twix, at Brett Dasovic on both of those platforms.
Otherwise, what you should be doing is checking out Pop Culture Crisis.
We are live Monday through Friday at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, noon Pacific.
Come hang out.
We have a lot of fun.
It's not very serious.
It's a good time.
See you there.
tim pool
One last super chat from Derek Moore because it was good.
He says, I'll make it easy for you, Tim.
The left are the Society of Demolition Man.
The right are the Society of Starship Troopers.
There you go.
Thanks for hanging out, everybody.
And we've got clips throughout the weekend.
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