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March 17, 2024 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool

01:20:07

Sunday Uncensored: Curt Mills Members Only Podcast

Tim & Co join Curt Mills for a spicy bonus segment usually only available on Timcast.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Main voices

c

curt mills

18:58

s

shane cashman

05:33

t

tim pool

39:15

Appearances

h

hannah claire brimelow

04:25

s

serge du preez

01:20

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So we have a new conspiracy.
		This one's great.
		Uh, the first thing I want to do is I want to show you the, uh, we have this, um... Check this out.
		This is secret footage captured of Boeing engineers saying they would not fly on these planes.
		The 15 people who were asked those questions were working on the flagship product, the 787 Dreamliner.
		The people on the assembly line have little faith in the plane they built.
		Yo, that's... That's freaky as shit.
		So this is Whistleblower Guy.
		Check this out.
		Actually, let's do this.
		Boeing whistleblower John Barnett's warning over aviation giants flagship 787 Dreamliner and 737 Max weeks before he was found dead as FAA reveals company failed 33 of 89 audits and used Dawn soap for lubricant.
		Dude, what the fuck is going on?
		It's just total breakdown.
		And we were talking, so here's the story.
		This guy was found dead and people are all tweeting out Arkansas as if to imply, I guess, I don't know, like Boeing had him killed or the Clintons.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The Clintons, because they're from Arkansas.
unidentified		Right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But I don't think they're literally saying Hillary Clinton killed a Boeing whistleblower, but they're saying Arkansas as if to imply it's an assassination or whatever.
		You know what I think is the bigger story here?
		Look, we're not going to know if this guy was assassinated, but we'll take a look.
		He was found dead.
		Did they say, what is it, apparent suicide shot or something like that?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		To the back of the head.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it was?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Multiple to the back of the head.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Classic suicide.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm just kidding.
		It's found dead for an apparent suicide.
		They don't say exactly why.
		I think what we're seeing with Boeing, it's not just the DEI stuff.
		People are talking about diversity and all this shit.
		It's resulting in like low quality products.
		I think it's actually an artifact of Uh, boomers retaining power and refusing to transfer it.
		We talked about this a bit on the main show, but I do think that is largely it.
		That it's circular, but you infantilize a younger generation, you get infants.
		And then, because they're infantilized and acting like infants, you continue to treat the rest of them like infants, perpetuating the cycle of only we can be in charge.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a lot of inspirations.
		I do feel like I really want to see the Don Boeing commercial we're about to get.
		You know how Don puts out the commercials where they're like, and we use our products to take oil off of animals.
		See, we're great.
		They're going to be like, and now we power your airplanes.
		Isn't that good?
		But I think Tim's totally right.
		You know, the crime of low expectations for millennials, it seems twofold, right?
		Boomers don't want to give up power, but also they tell, they say, well, look at you guys.
		You don't have your lives together.
		You can't, you don't have any, you don't own homes.
		You don't have any savings.
		And you want to say, but who, who put, put us in this position?
		Why are millennials in this trap where they are not allowed to assume power, but also all, all of the resources that are needed to sort of get the app to step towards leadership in this country are withheld from them.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of part of, like, the pandemic, too, and everyone just stopping doing their jobs correctly.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I think it was pre-pandemic.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Well, kind of both, but I mean, I'm not saying only, but I'm saying a lot of people have just kind of, like, checked out, you know, and a lot of positions in, like, if you go to a restaurant, the rest of the waiters that are just kind of like, eh, like, whatever, I could care less.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's the exact reason for this.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Imagine if they're all building the airplanes over Zoom.
		They're not even in the room, they're just like, who cares?
		Tell the robot to put the dawn over there.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		No, but I think part of it is, it's, I think that apathy was high during the pandemic, but I think there was a disengagement from typical societal functions before that.
		But it makes, to me, we were talking about the boomers before, I think a lot about the boomer feminists during this who told women, you know, put off having kids.
		You know, wait.
		You don't want them.
		They're a burden.
		In fact, you probably don't want to get married.
		You'll never meet.
		Like, there's a level of cynicism and selfishness that was sown by an older generation who maybe they had good intentions with, like, women's lib or whatever.
unidentified		But...
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		They ultimately created a group of people who were saying, I don't want to participate in a society that works on collaborative growth, a.k.a.
		having families, joining your school board, you know, participating in whatever, in volunteer organizations or churches, whatever you are interested in.
		Instead, it said, well, you should focus on the self entirely, and in fact, you should expect others to accommodate the self at all times.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's a very self-involved generation.
		You know, there was this guy called Dan Patrick, who's the Lieutenant Governor of Texas, and he appeared on Carlson's program in May of 2020, and he put forward the idea that basically his generation should just Take the hit.
		You know, I mean, we should end the lockdown.
		Um, and, you know, we, we, this is essentially for our benefit.
		And he was, he was, he was viewed as a, as a, as a crank.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Tyrant.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		As a murderer.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, remember, a human sacrifice.
unidentified		Right.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Practicer.
unidentified		Right.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that, that was the terminology at the time.
		I know it's all a bad dream and we don't really want to talk about it, right?
		But, I mean, that, that was... He was right.
		That is the mindset.
		And I think we, We are underrating that we're not even close, in my view, to being on the other side of the hill on this.
		Like, I mean, the aging of the country's over-60 class is going to be very slow and very long.
		And like you said, you were 38, you were 40.
		This is going to be happening well into your 50s.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, well, the question is, I mean, here we are, this company is a millennial and younger company.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		In fact, how many Gen Xers do we actually have at Timcast?
unidentified		One?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Is Ian Genex?
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Maybe... Lisa?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Phil.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Phil.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Kim.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But Phil doesn't work here.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He just, you know, it's funny because people, like, try to roast him saying that, like, he works for me and, like, Phil literally shows up whenever he feels like it.
		I don't even know when he's here or is not.
		We're glad to have him.
		I told him to just come by when he can and we have, he just, he schedules it with the team or whatever.
		But we're a fairly millennial company, not to get off track.
		What's stopping other millennials from just taking, just doing shit?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		The metaverse, Xanax.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That thing right there?
unidentified		They have a new skateboarding video game for that.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's a complex subject, which is not a very interesting answer.
		And the reality is there are a lot of great baby boomers.
		But it's just, it's hard to make an argument that, and I think generational warfare turns a lot of people off, the language of it, and understandably so.
		But I just, if you don't think this country has gotten worse in the last 40 or 50 years, like, I'm just not really sure that we're seeing the same reality.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And you're right about- Real quick, just to clarify people who are asking, Phil- Phil is not an employee of TeamCast, I'll put it that way.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Phil is a consultant and recurring guest host, and we have an arrangement with him that is- It's not an employment arrangement, it's a contract arrangement.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		What you're saying about the older class thing in power is going to be even crazier thinking about when I went home for Thanksgiving in New York, talking to a lot of friends who are still teachers.
		I was a professor for a while and I'm talking to professors and middle school and elementary school teacher teachers.
		They're like, all of our kids are four, four years behind.
		Like they're, they're supposed to be freshmen in college.
		They're like a freshman or a sophomore in high school.
		Just cause like the education was totally halted and zoom did nothing.
		Maybe made things worse.
		So.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And school wasn't so great before COVID.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		School was already bad.
		Yeah, now it just got way worse.
		But now, like, you know, that delay in their development, plus what you're talking about with the older people staying in power, it's gonna rip society apart.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've probably told this story a couple times on the show, but I remember when I was 20.
		No, I was probably 17 or 18.
		And I had a friend who was in college.
		I did not go to college.
		I briefly took like two college credits or whatever.
		And the idea was I dropped out of high school, but in order to get a job, you need a high school diploma, but I'm smarter than these people.
		So I took a couple of college credits.
		I think I did yoga, theater acting, and criminal justice.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then I dropped the yoga because I was like, this is a waste of my time.
		But then on every application after that, I would put some college.
		And the assumption is if you have some college, you've got a high school diploma.
		My friends who applied for jobs, they would say... You do not need a high school degree to... To go to community college, you do not need a high school degree.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Anybody can walk in.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who's 18 and older can walk into a community college and pay.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That's nationwide.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm assuming, you know?
		And then after two years you can get an associates and transfer to a university,
		you don't need a high school diploma, that's a myth.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So- Why do people get GEDs then?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because they're really fucking stupid.
		I gotta be, I don't know.
		I'm not trying to insult people who have GEDs, but like, look man, if someone came to me for a job
		and they were like, I don't have a high school diploma, but I got a GED,
		and I'm like, that's not confidence building.
		You'd have been better off being like, I don't need that shit.
		I'm the best.
		Watch this.
		And then they do a bit.
		I gotta be honest.
		If I was like, I'm trying to hire somebody who knows how to do graphic design.
		And they came to me and said, I didn't go to school for it.
		I didn't even go to high school.
		I'd be like, well, that means nothing to me.
		And then if they did a standing backflip, I'd be like, okay, now we're talking.
		Like, I don't even know what the fuck's going on, but that was impressive.
		But telling me that you got a GED means very little.
		And I think it's because people think you need it.
		So, I went and it took me like, I don't know, a month to get a credit?
		And now I- fuck that!
		You can walk in the door and walk out the door and now you have some college.
		And you actually have the paperwork and the receipt for the college you went to.
		So, what was I even talking about?
		Oh, anyway.
		So, I was talking to a friend who was going to college.
		She was telling me, like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life.
		And I said, what were you doing when you were 13?
		And she was like, nothing.
		Riding my bike, hanging out with my friends.
		And I was like, you wanna open a bar?
		And she went, oh my god.
		That would be so awesome.
		And I'm like, yeah.
		You wanna do what you were doing when you were 13?
		I'm doing basically what I was doing when I was 13.
		Going on the internet, reading news, and just like, I used to go on FARC.com all the time.
		I don't know if that was around when I was 13, but all I would do is read FARC.
		Like, fuck, does FARC still exist?
		It's gotta exist, right?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to go read for the week, because I read that cover to cover when I was 13 every week.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And it looks the exact same as it always has looked.
		This is what it is.
		I would just go on FARC, and I would just read this.
		Like, this is the shit that I would read when I was, like, a teenager.
		It's like the first, like, news- Norway became the number- and I'm just reading all this shit and it shows you all the sources.
		Still- I should still use it.
		It seems like a good website.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I wonder who's running this.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Probably the same dudes.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why I stopped using it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And newgrounds.com.
		And so- Does that exist?
		Newgrounds?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course!
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Newgrounds is definitely still around.
		I think they've actually- Oh, what is this?
		A community- Yeah, com- Wait, what?
		A humor or satire website?
		It's not a news source?
		What are you- Oh, because they make jokes about the stories.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Well, and they say it's not news.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		It's spark.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Wait, what am I typing?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Newgrounds.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I was typing in Newsguard.
		Yeah, Newgrounds has been around forever.
		There you go.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Oh man, I haven't thought about this for forever.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Animation committee.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		This is bizarre.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I would tell all my friends, I'm like, look man, why is it that all of the pro baseball players are playing baseball since they were four years old?
		Why is it that all the pro football players are playing football since they were four years old?
		You do what you've been doing.
		You are built around, your neurons fire around this stuff.
		And so, for me, I was designing websites, I was playing video games, I was playing guitar, I was skateboarding.
		I'm literally doing exactly what I did when I was 13.
		And so the problem we have with this generation, all of our 13 year olds go riding their bikes and nothing else.
		Like, I mean figuratively riding their bikes.
		What does the average 10 to 13 year old do in this country?
		And it's worse than that.
		The most important years of human beings life are 0 through 5.
		You have all of these neurons in your brain and they're starting to get wired.
		And I watched this thing recently where they said you actually have more when you're born, but they break apart.
		The ones that become useless stop getting used and the ones you build up.
		So the more you do from zero to five, the more pathways and the more powerful your brain becomes.
		So for me, my mom was homeschooling me well before five years old.
		I knew multiplication and division.
		I was learning basic instruments, learning like the basics of music, Playing chess when I was three, not that I was actually playing chess, but like learning how to move pieces and generally understanding the game.
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tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What do we do in this country?
		Literally nothing till five years old.
		Literally not.
		Maybe preschool.
		And now they're saying, like, kids are gonna read by the time they're in third grade.
		What was that we saw in the State of the Union?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		It was wild.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		That was Biden saying, we need to make sure they can read by third grade.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Which is late.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		It's late.
		I mean, first grade is average, right?
		That's what we looked up.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, six years old is about average to start reading.
		And I remember my eighth grade teacher said I had a college level of vocabulary when I was in eighth grade.
		She was like, Yeah.
		And I forgot what happened, but, you know, one day she said that to me, because my mom would give us vocabulary tests, and she would homeschool us all the time.
		That gives me an advantage.
		So, here I am with a higher, like a 10-year head start on the average American.
		Perhaps that's why, you know, here I am running this company, and why most millennials are doing nothing.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I think early like I mean this is something doesn't Jordan Peterson talk about this that you only really get the zero through four years once and they're extremely fundamental and so it is worth sacrificing to be present with your children at that time and I think I mean this is something that came up in the State of Union too.
		Biden cited that study that says children who are read to at home and they get books and things like that they go they enter school with a million more words than the average kindergartner.
		Well Yeah.
		Why don't we encourage parents to be home from work in time to read their kids a bedtime story, right?
		Like there are simple cultural solutions for this that we gave up in pursuit of other things.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Our son seems like an extraterrestrial sometimes when he's around other kids because he's been reading a lot from a very young age.
		How old is your son?
		He's seven, gonna be eight.
		And at like four, you know, he's already thinking like about like just making very complete weird sentences about and
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		are having observations or making metaphors and similarly. Do the children that your son goes
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		to school with or hang out with, they seem very different than? In New York they did.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		In New York, it was different.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		What were their characteristics?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		The vocabulary wasn't like that, and they probably weren't being read to at least three books a night, like our son was.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Time to get him a skateboard!
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		They were probably on their, uh, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Come on, Uncle Tim!
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Other parents were probably giving them, and our son has a screen every now and then, but other, I saw a lot of parents, the screen became a parent.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		That's what the default became.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		You think that's the default?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Uh, yeah, for a lot of people.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, this was a huge scandal on YouTube.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You're familiar, are you familiar with Elsagate?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, they, parents would put, uh, I always love pulling this video up.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me pull this video up.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		It's wild.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I saw it myself, you know, when I was picking up my son once from my mom.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		It was showing these videos and it was one of these disturbing things.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		one hour So here's the hulk and hitler doing tights
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		This is probably like an MKUltra video.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		You probably shouldn't even look at it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They got rid of, uh, they got rid of the finger family stuff.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
unidentified		Ugh.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I feel it in my brain.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, no, no, no.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Listen, listen, listen, listen.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Be careful.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, no, stop, stop, stop.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Listen, listen, listen.
unidentified		Listen!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Listen, listen.
unidentified		Here I am, here I am, how do you do?
		I'll play it again.
		Here I am, here I am, how do you do?
		Oh Sit the finger, sit the finger, where are you?
		Here I am, here I am, how do you do?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This person clearly doesn't speak English.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They're singing a song called Finger Family because the algorithm was feeding these videos to hundreds of millions of views.
		These people were making shitloads of money because parents would put the iPad in front of the baby and press play on a real Finger Family song.
		Let me pull it.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Here you go, Cocomelon.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't even have this.
		So the algorithm—look, this has got 557 million views.
		When people in India found out the algorithm was feeding this, they made those ridiculous videos with Hitler and like there's one where- Is this India driven?
		That one particular video seemed to be from India or perhaps Indonesia or something like that.
		I don't know.
		But there were a ton of different ones where they were It's like Hitler with a bikini.
		Hitler with a woman's body, doing tai chi with a blue hulk or something.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		The giant needle one?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sticking needles in children, and children drinking urine out of urinals.
		Because the parents put the iPad in front of the baby and press play, and the algorithm would just autoplay, whatever, and the babies are just staring at it.
		We are going to have one fucked up post-alpha generation.
		Whatever comes after Generation Alpha is going to be a bunch of- What is that going to be called, do we know?
		I don't know.
		But they will be retarded, and they will be degenerate.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		It kind of might connect to what we were talking about last night, when we were talking about the art that was made after the atom bomb.
unidentified		Yeah.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Like, what the fuck are these kids going to make?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Their brains are going to be fried.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		They might not even make anything, honestly.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Look, Bugs, Bunny, and Looney Tunes are why we have furries.
		It's not even a debate.
		You know what a furry is?
		People think furries are people who dress up like animals.
		Wrong.
		Furries are people who have cartoon animal personalities that they want to be.
		And this only can emerge because of the likes of Looney Tunes.
		Bugs Bunny.
		Look at the fur suits that people wear.
		They look like cartoon characters.
		They don't look like animals.
		Now certainly there's that guy who made a costume to be a dog.
		Have you seen this guy?
		Where it's an actual dog suit.
		And he looks like a dog, but it's kind of obviously a guy.
		Fur suits look like Bugs Bunny.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And variations of that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's clearly a psychological identification because of cartoon animals they watched when they were kids and attached to for some reason.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		What do we call animals that want to be people?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Fleshies.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Repressed.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And anthropomorphs?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right, yeah.
		It's very, it's all very Greek myth, like Greek mythology.
		Maybe too, you can not just blame Bugs Bunny, you can blame Zeus for becoming a swan.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Do you think this goes on forever?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's going to be a massive backlash?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, so let me, let me, let me address this comment here.
		Someone said, furries didn't exist in the 40s and 50s when they aired though.
		Right.
		So what happens is, you get Looney Tunes, and it's social emergence, represses anybody, so you have to be born in the 40s and 50s, not the parents, it's not like some guy who's in his 30s watches Looney Tunes and then goes, I must dress like a rabbit!
		No, he has kids.
		Those kids watch it, but when those kids grow up, there is no community of people who do this, and so they might have an affinity for it, it's suppressed by society.
		But as time goes on, especially into the era of the internet, and with the expansion of these shows, there's Animaniacs, there's Tiny Toons, there's fuck-tons of shows with anthropomorphized cartoon animals, You end up with people with an affinity or an identity related to this and they go online and they can text with no one seeing their face and they can build a community around it.
		Now you start to see the emergence of all of these degenerate subcultures where people normally would be suppressed by the greater society out of fear of, I don't know, starvation.
		Now they're like, holy shit, there's a ton of people who will allow me to do this thing, and they will all one-up each other.
		Every time one person engages in it and produces more content, it expands it, creating more and more and more of it.
		It's societal emergence.
		It's only possible thanks to the internet, and arguably the phone, too.
		When people were able to... You take a look at early Christianity, the idea of the fish symbol.
		You weren't allowed to be a Christian, you'd be killed.
		So they would draw a line in the sand, the other person would draw the other line forming the fish, and you knew you were now among a Christian.
		That is like basic and not that bad.
		It's like a political idea and a religious idea and a faith idea.
		But when you get to the point where it's like pedophiles putting symbols on doors and stuff, and now what's happening on the internet, pedophiles have secret meetings, they're trying to expand, gain power, and they're trying to normalize their behavior.
		Human society today, American society, tolerates some forms of this degenerate behavior to a degree until it starts spilling over.
		Case in point, you end up with like, dude, If you dress up in a fursuit 50, 60 years ago, you'd be attacked.
		And there likely could be a guy in the crowd who really liked what you were doing, but knew, I'd rather be on this side than that side.
		Now with the internet, people in these subcultures are forming communities, and they're protecting each other, and now they're forming voting blocks, and they're creating conventions.
		The one that's having the hardest time, for good reason, are pedophiles.
		But clearly they're gaining tons of traction in schools and claiming that it's all about just sex education.
		But you can see how they're trying to normalize this stuff.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		Roger Rabbit was early furry propaganda.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		What about Space Jam and that Lola Bunny character?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, like the original one?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Of course!
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		People talk about it all the time.
		Sexy Lola.
		Yeah, it being like a jumping off point for all that stuff.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		A big titty rabbit.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, literally.
		Bizarre.
		Literally, yeah.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're screwed.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		The sexy rabbit's gotta go.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to colors.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's pull in the colors.
unidentified		Right up.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Alright, you're gonna do your headphones with those, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, poor things.
		It's a fucking awful movie.
		Someone just mentioned it.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Alrighty.
		Let's see here.
		Adventure Kyle.
		How goes the adventure?
		How are you, man?
unidentified		The adventures continue.
		Yeah.
		I had a question for everybody and I wanted to kind of touch back to the Rome episode that you guys did on the culture war.
		So I know that we rightfully often get mad at the neocon Republicans for doing nothing.
		However, Is it possible that they are merely adopting the Fabian strategy first used famously against Hannibal when he invaded Italy, whereby you don't directly go against your foe, but you instead kind of try to fight them in small groups, that sort of thing, while kind of evading the main force, instead of interacting head-on, to kind of play devil's advocate for it.
		The Left desperately needs the Right to overreact to get the Casus Belli, but they need to do a ton of the crazy far-Left stuff, like banning guns, that sort of thing.
		And so far, we've managed to kind of avoid being provoked in such a way that it kind of, like, gives them that Casus Belli.
		So, is this tactical decision-making, or just cowardice and stupidity on the part of the Yukons?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		My gut says cowardice.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about you guys.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I, um, I certainly don't think there's a viable path forward that involves violence.
		Maybe there's a conversation to be had later on in the future when other, like people always ask like, what point, you know, at what point do you grab your guns or whatever?
		I'm like, I don't know, like the Holocaust.
		I'm sure there's like slavery.
		I, I, I, I'm not an expert on, on that line, but I certainly don't see it right now.
		If we get to the point where Joe Biden gets an army of, like, black-shirted Antifa guys and gives them government authority and they go around murdering, you know, people or whatever.
		There's an argument they've had about self-defense or something.
		But my point is, conservatives don't fight at all.
		Like, neocons, conservatives are doing nothing to resist.
		At all.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		What does he mean by the use of neocons there?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you want to elaborate?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Or what do I mean?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what does he mean?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, sir, by neocon?
unidentified		I'm talking about kind of the do-nothing Republicans.
unidentified		You know, it seems like they'll take action on some small things here and there, but for the most part they generally just are completely absent from kind of leading the culture war.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And you're asking why that's their posture?
unidentified		Yeah, again, playing devil's advocate, it's not actually my belief, but I hear it from my father and stuff like that.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		If they overreact, then it just gives more permission for people on the far left to So not to personalize it, but the figure of your father here is he's arguing that he's actually sage and savvy because he's more moderate and is unlikely to overreact and thus accordingly Republicans are more likely to win with his strategy versus the sort of young Turk approach of aggression is, while potentially well-meaning, foolhardy and reckless.
unidentified		I guess to put a finer point on it, his position would be that the left will continually devour
		and eat themselves, and so long as the right doesn't kind of engage in that same kind of level
		of violence and, you know, I guess overt action, they'll kind of be, you know, left by default.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's certainly possible that, and it's happened, that the
		the right can overreact in a way that's highly counterproductive and lose elections.
		I do think, and I'm gathering this person is sort of older potentially and not just a boomer, to put too fine of a point on it, I think if you define left-wing as increasing state power in America and moving culture ever more to the left, the ratchet has been naturally in that direction.
		And it's not like Republicans were super overreacting, again, in this frame, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
		So there's nothing particularly new about this.
		And, you know, there were left-wing victories galore without an overreaction.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		You got anything else to add to that, friend?
unidentified		No, I think that pretty much answers it for me.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Cool.
		Alright, well, cheers, man.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for calling in.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I wish you the best in the adventure.
		Alright, Pokesfan4life, how you doing, Konoski?
		Where's Sonoski?
unidentified		What up?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Checking... 1, 2, 3... Sonoski, you there?
unidentified		I made the biggest mistake of all.
		What is it?
		I'm doing well on this somber day, but for Bocas, hail to the gods.
		We praise and honor you as we praise and honor the dead.
		Hail to the brave warrior.
		The bright shield Bocas was called to his kinsmen and friends.
		May he live long in the memory of men and sit among his kinsmen in Valhalla.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Where he will do battle for eternity.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		That's the way of it, right?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So, really, Tim, got a question for you.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I watched the Senate hearing just like you did.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Why are the GOP not pushing for an impeachment at this point, honestly?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because you're going to lose!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Don't give Democrats what they want.
unidentified		Are they really going to get what they want, though?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we want to operate under the assumption that Joe Biden is the strongest candidate, as Kurt was saying, then sure, impeach him, get rid of him.
		But I think many Democrats would be like, oh, wait, don't.
		Like Trump is beating Biden in the polls massively.
		I got, we got Gen Z siding with Donald Trump.
		Why?
		Don't, don't, don't fix what ain't broke.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Johnson doesn't have the votes.
		Speaker Johnson doesn't have the votes for an impeachment.
		He has to have, I mean, he, he has a, as of today.
		Sure, sure, sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, like, why is there no stronger effort after this to, to go after Joe Biden?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't, I think the Republicans are basically like, we don't want to because Trump's going to beat him.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		And do you want a Kamala presidency?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we impeach Biden, what happens after that?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't I don't know that.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Impeaching Biden doesn't even do anything.
		I mean, I suppose they could impeach him for the PR.
		He won't get convicted.
		And then they can say he's been impeached.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But but perhaps closer to your point, they don't want Democrats to appear to be victimized.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I still don't think they have those vote- I mean, those house seats they won in, like, Southern California and in New York State, I'm not sure those people would vote.
		I mean, I don't want to entertain the argument, the merits of the case aside, that it actually would- I'll side more with the caller here, actually.
		I think it actually does make sense, politically, just if you were being totally immoral about it, to impeach him.
		Because there's conventional wisdom that if you don't impeach the president and he's not convicted, or you do impeach him and he's not convicted, that it actually hurts the impeaching party.
		It's actually not true.
		I mean, the Republicans impeached Clinton in 1998, the White House changed hands.
		The Democrats impeached Trump, the White House changed hands.
		So I actually think there is a real politic here to just impeach him.
		The reality, though, is that the House margins are so slim for Speaker Johnson.
		He doesn't know what to do.
		I mean, I think it's very clear that he's just... It's like my speech right now.
		He can't get it out.
		These statements that he has are just increasingly baroque.
		He's like the... If you remember this sort of an old school reference, the Dana Carvey character who played George H.W.
		Bush on SNL.
		And it's like George H.W.
		Bush announcing that he was going to raise taxes.
		It's just like, I'm going to raise That's like Johnson on the Ukraine bill, impeachment, he's just trying to survive.
		McCarthy, to his credit, represented a faction and he went.
		He's trying to be all things to all people and it's working so now.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Anything else to add?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Oh, pardon me.
unidentified		Me to myself.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Search and fire.
unidentified		That'll make sense.
		Thank you.
		Right on.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks for calling in, sir.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Cheers, man.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I'll start deporting Serge instead.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		You're the immigrant.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Back to California with you.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		You gotta watch it.
		You're an immigrant too.
		Yeah.
		All right.
		I can't read your name.
unidentified		So, Sir Turbo, how you doing?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to WV again, by the way.
unidentified		Yes, coming to you live from Bridgeport, West Virginia.
unidentified		How's everybody doing tonight?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Great.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Doing well.
unidentified		Well.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Nice day out, eh?
unidentified		Yes it is.
		I am not wearing a jacket and just a few days ago it was snowing.
		What kind of weather do we have in here?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Fake clouds make fake snow.
unidentified		Very much so.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what's up man?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Off the weather and on to my question.
		So, this is a question just in general for everybody.
		I super chatted about it last night.
		So, I'm Dominican, right?
		I'm pretty close to this whole Haiti problem.
		You know, we share a border.
		And my question is basically with the whole situation and the fact that my home country is working its hardest to get rid of it.
		You know, like I said, they ended birthright citizenship.
		I think it was 2015, 2016.
		So around the time Trump took over.
		And then this year or this past year, they started building a border wall.
		And unlike the one Trump got, theirs is actually going to be concrete.
		Wow.
		So my question is, yes, so my question is basically, like, what can we do here to try and convince people that, like, do you want to end up like Haiti or do you want to end up like the Dominican Republic?
		You know, like, one island, two totally different countries.
		So that's my general question is, how can we convince the left and all these, these crazies that want to end up eating people?
		Or do you want to end up on a resort island?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, I feel like we are.
		The polls are shifting towards Trump.
		I mean, what more can be said?
		That tweet I put out where I said a vote for Democrats is a vote to make the United States like Haiti and a vote for Republicans is to vote to recover like El Salvador.
		It's got 5,000 retweets.
		I think it's got like 3 million views or something.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been to Haiti?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I have not.
unidentified		Have you?
		Yeah, I had a feeling it was for me.
		So, last time I went, we did crossover into Haiti, and at the time it was literally just walking across a bridge.
		And the craziest part is the night and day difference.
		The Dominican Republic, it's lush, green, you know, there's trees, there's all kinds of things.
		Soon as you walk into Haiti, it feels like you just walked into a desert.
		There's nothing.
		The most vegetation I saw was a tree stump and, uh, some, some like shrubbery, like nothing.
		Yeah.
		And it was just a night and day.
		And these, this nothing changed other than just crossing over a river, crossing the border.
		And this was, Ooh, I haven't been back in almost 10 years.
		It's kind of upsetting me because I've been trying to go back, but I keep running into Life problems that are stopping me, but yeah.
		Yeah, like people say, if you go on Google Earth and look, you can almost clearly see the border because one side's brown, the other side's green.
		And it's just, that country's totally been mismanaged, and you can tell.
		And, you know, the U.S.
		has obviously not helped because they've occupied it multiple times.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, the first thing the Dominican Republic relatively had going for it was that the border is a lot smaller.
		I saw, I think today that- Way shorter.
		Yeah, I think it's probably- Oh, is it good?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We should invade Haiti.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		No.
		52nd state, let's do it.
		Right after Gaza, of course.
		Over Gaza, pardon me.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We'll be greeted like liberators.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it?
		It's interesting.
		I was watching this thing late last night and I wasn't sleeping very well.
		Do you see the barbecue guy?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The facto leader of Hado.
		Hades, sorry.
		He's wearing a... Free man.
		Yes.
		Did you discuss this last night?
		Sorry.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		We talked about not this part though.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So nobody noticed it and I was just wondering, is that just like random, like whatever is like a necklace?
		It's like, no, there's this entire history of Freemasons in the Caribbean.
		Like it's, it's, it's like, that's like an actual, I've not seen a very well done piece about the linkage there.
		And you gotta remember that the Haiti concept is, the Haiti, uh, Dynamic is as old as this country itself the u.s.
		Had a revolution in 76 and and the the Haitians had a revolution 25 years later Yeah, yeah, I mean the u.s.
		Was extremely concerned about the precedent of a slave revolt yeah, and look obviously in no way a defense of the practice of slavery, but the Slave revolts themselves never worked.
		The French Revolution was bad, but on a per capita basis, the Haitian Revolution immediately descended into absolute nightmarish bloodshed.
		And there has been different periods that have been relatively more stable than others.
		Um, but we are again, just back in the abyss.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I was looking at the Clinton, uh, influence over Haiti and it's just insane.
		I mean, uh, Bill Clinton made them basically destroy their crops to take all of like the crop of rice crops.
		That is from Arkansas.
		He thought it would help them.
		Uh, I don't get rid of the, I don't understand what his, uh, he has a whole apology video online.
		You can look up and he's like, I take the full responsibility for this.
		I don't know what it was.
		He said it whatever this process was it helped farmers in Arkansas And I don't really know about that like beyond that but it never happened.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It destroyed their crops I saw I saw a funny thing that that somebody said that uh They should install Claudine Gaye as the president of Haiti.
		You know, you know, you know that you ever had the the Mount Gaye rum?
		No.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I know what that is.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I haven't had it.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's her family.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Really?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		She's from a Haitian oligarchy.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's funny.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		So the Bill Clinton and the Rice thing doesn't stop there.
		It's just like, then they, the Clinton foundation took over helping people out after the earthquake, totally destroyed that.
		Cause they sent all these trailers to help these people who are, you know, out of homes and the trailers are filled with formaldehyde, like dangerous levels and making people super sick.
		The same thing happened in her after Hurricane Katrina the same foundation through Clinton Foundation sent these bad trailers and then Hillary influenced a presidential election when she was ambassador went down there and helped one guy get elected and Everyone not everyone but a lot of people in Haiti believed there was lots of fraud fraudulent votes.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's a Haitian election Yeah, and then uh and then yeah, there's another thing there But I remember the funny thing when I was reading about was when the reconstruction was happening under Bill Clinton of Haiti He called it building back better Yeah, I think they forced out the Amistad guy for Bush, but it was definitely like, it was the beginning of the Bush-Clinton era.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Re-bridging of the relationship.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		When they went down there?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		When H.W.
		and of course Bill ran against each other in 92 and it was a very bitter campaign, but they became friends and thus accordingly the family became closer through the Haitian thing.
		There's some sort of, who knows?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Through human trafficking?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Who knows if it's apocryphal, but like stuff like, you know, like they had like one hotel room and he let HW slept in the bed and Clintus slept on the floor.
		Oh my goodness.
		These things are claimed in the various biographies.
unidentified		Right.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I remember seeing the pictures of them down there and they're sharing them in the media.
		Like, look at this.
		Unity to fix Haiti, but literally they were destroying it.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		There's a good, there's a good, um, There's a good piece to be written, I feel like, about does any of this sort of philanthropic industrial complex stuff even work?
		I mean, Haiti was like a sort of, you know, sort of virtue signaling thing for both sort of center-left democratic and secular types to do, but also sort of like even right-wing Christian types.
		Like, we're just like, send there, you take pictures of the, you know, sort of poor African American people and like, you know, like everybody feels good, they're getting drinking water, but it's like, if those are the only variables, like X, like Western Sympathy, pity, and why being the result.
		This is a pretty sad showing.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		It seems like a giant experiment, honestly.
		And then sympathy tourism and disaster tourism weaved in throughout it, with the presidents going down there to help fix it.
		And they also had the cholera outbreak, which was, I think, before the earthquake.
		It's just been devastating.
		And then the guy you're talking about, Barbecue, is like 40-something.
		He's a cop beforehand.
		Must have been in his early 30s when the earthquake happened.
		So these people are just living in a shithole.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		It's like they've been living in Haiti this whole time, man.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Crazy.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I remember an Uber driver in Florida telling me he was from Haiti and he was like, this is early on in Trump's presidency, he's like, I voted for Trump and I moved here because I want to be away from all Haitians.
		And at the time, I didn't really understand.
		He was not really joking, but he said it like a joke.
		But now looking back on that conversation, I'm like, no, that guy really didn't like Haiti and had to leave home.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had a similar conversation in October of 2016.
		It was very late, like 1.30 in the morning, bar in Chelsea, New York.
		And the bartender was from Juarez.
		And I just assumed he was going to get mad at our conversation, frankly.
		And he was like, and this is like back then, I was like, I wasn't even really sure Trump's gonna win.
		Like the polling looked pretty bad.
		You know, I had been pretty bullish on his chances in 16, but you know, it looked really bad.
		It was like the week after Axis Hollywood.
		And he was like, there was no chance Trump will lose.
		I am from Juarez.
		You've got to build an enormous wall between that country and ours.
		And I was like, wow, this guy was adamant.
		And I was like, and I never forgot the conversation.
		So I think it's a fairly common sentiment, especially among some of the older immigrants
		from Latin America.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		No, I knew a Mexican man who worked on a farm near where I grew up.
		And when he drove by one day in his truck with a giant Trump flag, I was like, huh, interesting.
		And I asked him, he was just like, I came here legally.
		And it's ridiculous that people can come here illegally after I went through all these steps to do this stuff.
		And he was just so open about it.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It'll be interesting to see what happens if there actually is.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So again, not to take the pro-barbecue stance here, but like... Kirby's pro-cannibalism?
unidentified		This one cannibal in particular!
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I believe he denies... Sources close to Kirby say... He claims that he's called barbecue because his mother was a chicken vendor.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		He eats people to scare people, not for the sustenance.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Let's say Barbecue establishes control and sort of renounces whatever practices that are potentially untoward, and he establishes a dictatorship in Haiti, right?
		It's an interesting hypothetical question whether or not the US government will accept this, right?
		I'm not pro-dictatorship, but like...
		It's got to be better than what they're doing now.
		And so like, I mean like, if what they're doing now is zero, and a competent dictatorship is like a three or four, and like an actual functioning democracy like the U.S.
		like 70 years ago is like a ten, should we not accept the better?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		It's progress, right?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and like, but you could see a democra- I'm just, I'm just like, you know, like, I'm not advocating for it, but if he's able to maintain control and he establishes some sort of weird, Masonic, you know, dictatorship state.
unidentified		How do you feel about the state of the United States?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Right now?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		We're above Haiti.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure, sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But do you think that we're facing an existential crisis?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		If Donald Trump gets elected and we go through standard procedures and the Democrats hang him up, cement his feet, can't really do anything, we will not resolve an existential crisis.
		It will just postpone for the next four years, should Trump be a mini-dictator.
		What I mean by that is, like, I really don't expect him to, you know, start arresting people arbitrarily.
		I mean, like, should he use the full weight of the Constitution and the law to start arresting corrupt politicians, shutting the border, deporting people?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I think we need to treat the border as a military problem.
		And I think, I'm a foreign policy reporter by training, so, I mean, I think you just make this stuff matters of national security.
		So trade and immigration should be matters of national security.
		And there, We do have an imperial presidency for better or worse.
		He actually does have considerable leverage, and I think he should take his chance at the Supreme Court to militize the border.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Would we be better off in the United States if Trump, after getting elected four years on, says, I am suspending the next elections and will remain in office for another four years until we resolve the crisis of corruption, polarization, mass deportation, etc., etc.?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think that would be ill-advised.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, totally agree.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I reject that.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Alright, next caller.
unidentified		Yeah, so a few fun facts about Haiti.
		You know the term zombie?
		That's Haitian.
		So it's a voodoo practice and it dates back a very long time.
		Asked my parents about it one time because part of Dominican Republic we live in is very close to the border
		and they're like Oh, yeah, we know about zombies and zombie ism
		Like wow, it's kind of like we think of it as like sci-fi and they're like no, it's real. Yeah, so
		yeah, so be careful with what barbecue might do because uh It'll probably resurrect those same enemies
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Can't backtrack now, you're pro-barbecue.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm barbecue skeptical, to be clear.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Alright, I'm just saying, what are our alternatives here?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's grab the next caller.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Churchill.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		We'll talk to you soon.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		That's why they were calling them zombie votes in that fraudulent lesson.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		What are the alternatives to barbecue the dictator cannibal?
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Alright.
		Justin L. Simms.
		How you doing, man?
		Cheers.
unidentified		I'm doing great.
		That was a much more fun conversation than I'm going to have.
		I was calling in for Mr. Mills to ask him what does he see as, you know, in the D.C.
		swamp area, what does he see as the Democrats, liberals, leftists, whatever you want to call it, most effective talking point that could sway, you know, on-the-fence moderates And what is the conservative's best arguments against that?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the most dangerous issue in this campaign is if the Democrats run on the IVF thing.
		So, I mean, if they just hammer it, like, it's not fully coherent because, you know, obviously Trump is not the most religious individual in the world, but if they just hammer it, they're gonna ban IVF.
		I think that... The scare tactic?
		Well, I mean, I mean, like there was that Alabama Supreme Court ruling and Alabama is now protected the right in some form or another.
		But if the Republicans don't have their message discipline there, that this is like actually not like a key initiative of this this campaign.
		I mean, look, we can get in this all day.
		People should be having children younger.
		You can make this argument.
		The reality is like that's not going to happen right now.
		A lot of people do conceive children through IVF.
		I'd rather have those children than not, frankly.
		And if the election becomes a referendum on IVF, this is like a 9-to-1 issue.
		It's not even close.
		Abortion, you could argue, is 50-50 or 5-to-4 or whatever.
		That would be the most effective way for a democratic route, in my view.
		The Republican argument to counteract it, I think, is very clear, which is, we're not running on that.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I think the IVF topic is so fascinating and I think you're totally right.
		I mean in some ways the way the left-leaning media seized on this issue as soon as the ruling came out to say well because of Roe this is where we are when actually you know they're not totally related abortion and IVF I could see the parallel but They're separate issues.
		To me, it says that all of the, you know, I can't tell you how many NPR reports I listened to that said abortion is going to be the issue in 2024.
		And that's because the left believes that's what Biden can win on, which you've talked about this a couple times tonight.
		If you can keep the focus on the economy, on trade and on the border, I think immigration in particular, it's much better to be a Republican than it is to be a Democrat.
		For me, the IVF issue is so fascinating because I think it's so poorly represented.
		And I think basically not talking about it, but also always pointing back to the fact that the underlying case in the Alabama court was about people who had made embryos that they wanted and that the hospital and clinic allowed a patient to go into the cryogenic nursery and drop the embryos on the floor.
		Right.
		And so they sued under a wrongful death of a minor act.
		Like that is that's what happened at the core.
		And it became they're trying to end IVF and fertility treatments because they hate you.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Right, but that took a long time.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because Democrats lie all the time.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		That took a long time to explain, and so if they- I think they can- I mean, I'm not on the campaign trail, but if they can get it faster, if they can rebrand the issue- It's all just a waste of time.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Look, if Republicans are like, we think IVF should be legal, this is a convoluted argument about someone intentionally destroying embryos, and the Democrats just go, it's too complicated, they can't answer, so just say they want to ban IVF, then what's stopping Republicans from being like, Democrats are trying to, uh, you know, rape kids.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're in favor of child sex.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think in 2020, it's, okay, 2022 is complex.
		So it's obviously was a law, it's actually like one of the things Republicans did well.
		They invested in the court over a generation.
		They overturned, in my view, which was a not good precedent, which was settling the abortion issue by judicial fiat, by dictatorship, as opposed to leaving it to the voters in state by state.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I disagree with that.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe the question of whether or not a person in the United States has constitutional rights should be left up to states to vote on.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I don't agree.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So you think this, like, Texas could vote that black people can be slaves?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think this particular issue, abortion, should be handled state by state.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Are the unborn humans?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's, for the legal purposes, I believe it is state by state.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Are the unborn human?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a complex issue.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a complex issue.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So you would not classify the unborn as a life or human?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's... My personal vote is not particularly important here.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Like, if I were specifically voting, I would vote for way more radical abortion laws than are currently on the books in my place of residence.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's a simple question.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Are unborn babies human?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think they're neither, I think it's an intermediate stage.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So they're not human, they're not?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think there should be more rights for unborn, for fetuses.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I think that's a fairly progressive position.
		The conservative position is the unborn are humans, they're children, they're alive.
		That's that question answered.
unidentified		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The progressive view is, I don't know, it's an intermediate stage.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		The progressive view is that the rights exist absolutely for the women.
		The women can do whatever they want with it.
		Right, right.
		I think we should have less abortions in the United States.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think we should have legislation that gets that done.
		The question with Roe is constitutional rights extending to the unborn.
		And one of the principal arguments is viability.
		If the child can survive on its own, you can't kill it.
unidentified		Agreed, agreed with that, agreed with that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So the issue is Should we allow states to vote that a person is not a human and has no rights and can be terminated by another person?
		The answer is no.
		The constitution of the federal government should dictate the constitution extends to all human beings in this country.
		And it extends to non-citizens as well.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think that the majority of Americans don't agree with that, and I think that would be a counterproductive use of political power.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It won't solve the issue.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm not talking about the moral issue of, are unborn babies human beings?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And should the states have the right to vote away someone's rights?
		The answer is no.
		That's it.
		The answer is no.
		There's no argument.
		There's no equivocating.
		There's no, but we wouldn't win, or with that.
		No, no, it's quite simply, I will stand on a pedestal and say, I will lose for My goal is fewer abortions in the United States, and I want to get from X to Y. I do think this is why conservatives lose all the time, to be honest.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think overturning Roe is an example of a conservative win.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I disagree.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, because... Well, I don't necessarily... I don't know if I necessarily disagree on Roe specifically, but my point is, the federal government... It is a question of the federal government, and specifically the Supreme Court, whether or not the unborn are guaranteed constitutional rights.
		Now, just because Roe was wrong, or ruled incorrectly, doesn't change the fact the federal government, at the judicial level, should be asserting whether or not the Constitution applies to the unborn.
		Does the Constitution apply to humans within this country and are the unborn human?
		And if conservatives say, let's not tell people what we think so we can try and win, you lose.
		Because you're building no moral base among other people.
		The left comes out and says that adults should be able to have sex with children.
		And they should give children these books.
		Snapchat had a filter that said, love has no age.
		They have no shame whatsoever to literally come out and say, a woman should be able to destroy a baby at the point of birth.
		They scream it to the high heavens and conservatives are like, don't tell anyone what you really think, otherwise we'll lose.
		Certainly it's the opposite.
		Certainly, we have now Democrats going out saying, what was her name?
		Nancy Tran?
		Was that her name?
		I always confuse her name.
		I think it was...
		Or it could have been Kathy.
		Uh, was it Kathy Tran?
		I'm gonna make sure I get the name right.
		Oh, Kathy Tran.
		I always say Nancy for some reason.
		Quite literally saying to a judge that you can abort a baby at the point of birth.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't agree with that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But my point is, Democrats will scream it to the high heavens.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We believe you can end the life of a baby as it's being born.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And I think they're losing the argument.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And conservatives will not say you should not be able to kill the baby.
		No, no, no.
		Many conservatives will.
		But too many conservatives go, let's not actually argue for our real position because we'll lose.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome to argue for your position, but I think what is most effective way to handle this is not through the courts.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think Democrats are clearly proving otherwise.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Roe v. Wade is overturned.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And in Colorado, all that's done is fragmented the country.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The country is fragmented on this issue.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So you can argue that in terms of less abortions, overturning Roe v. Wade is good, but that doesn't change the fact the argument is the federal government should, the Supreme Court specifically, must answer the question, are the unborn protected under the Constitution?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
unidentified		That's the question.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They have answered it.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They say it's a state issue.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So the states can vote that black people should be slaves.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, they can't.
		That's solved by the Civil War.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's solved by the 13th Amendment.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		13th Amendment, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So there should be a 27th Amendment, human beings in this country.
		So the problem with the 14th Amendment is that- 13th Amendment.
		No, the 14th.
		The 14th, I believe, actually does outline- Equal protection, yeah.
		Right, it actually does.
		Let's pull it up because we've had this argument a million and one times.
		Oh God, wrong phone number.
		Here we go.
		Let's see, let's see.
		No person shall be, no no no, the validity of public debt, no no no, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are subject, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States, of the state wherein they reside.
		No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, semicolon, nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the unborn person.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So you want it to be interpreted under the 14th Amendment?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I believe it already was.
		I believe the Constitution... The Supreme Court has not interpreted that.
		Exactly.
		The Supreme Court needs to answer the question, does this clause of Section 1, the 14th Amendment, that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process, does that apply to the unborn?
		I think if the court... Are the unborn persons yes or no?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		If the court does that in 2024, which they're not going to do, but if they were to do it, then the Democrats would sweep to power and they would pass
		their own constitutional amendment overriding that precedent, which in my view would be
		counterproductive.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Then you've already lost.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, we haven't lost currently.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So if the issue is that the culture of this country is accepting of the idea that the unborn can be terminated
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		at any point, then...
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		It's a moral loss.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The country is torn on the question.
		The question is about making it less.
		How do you do that the fastest?
		It's not about making ourselves feel good, in my personal view.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Do you think abortion is murder?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I would not personally engage in an abortion.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I gotta ask, why is it so hard for you to answer these questions?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Because I want to have less abortions.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So is abortion murder or no?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		My goal is to have less abortions.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is abortion murder yes or no?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I would not personally do an abortion.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is abortion murder yes or no?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Tim, I think I've said my piece.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right, you can't answer the question.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that language is useful.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is it because... So is the answer no?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I gave you my answer.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		So like, if he were to answer you, what's the next point that you want to make?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		I mean, is an unborn baby in the womb a life?
		Is that life protected?
		Or is it not?
		These are moral questions that must be answered.
		They must be answered.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Looking at the country as a win for you, because you want to win the White House back, Is that what you're saying?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Because like, in my opinion, the moral loss of knowing that parts of the country are still allowed to murder under certain states is worse off.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there are obviously echoes of slavery here, but I would like to resolve the abortion question where we have very few abortions in the United States without a civil war.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That's my goal.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		You think he gets there?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think the science is not good for the pro-choice position.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that matters.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It does for me.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean like the moral weakness.
		Like the rape and incest argument also makes no sense.
		Like there's no moral consistent logic among the pro-life position.
		The left position I can understand because it's unabashed.
		Murder, power, gluttony, greed, lists of deadly sins.
		We can kill a baby whenever we want.
		We don't think they're babies.
		We don't care.
		Vosh comes on this show and says... I said, at what point does a human become alive?
		And he goes, a few months after it was born.
		They have no problem outright saying... I understand.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm not that person though.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You can take a baby into another room and kill it.
		That's not what I'm arguing.
		In the Northam argument.
		But the right is terrified to actually say that.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		But you're arguing I should take an extreme position.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Extreme?!
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, you're arguing I should take an equal and opposite position with that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm saying, why do you want to stop abortion?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Oh, because I think it's barbaric.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What is barbaric about it?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the procedure?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's horrible.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But like, what does that mean, it's barbaric?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't want to get into it, but I mean, the videos are atrocious.
unidentified		Well, how about this?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What are the videos showing?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The removal of a fetus from a mother is terrible.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The removal of a fetus?
		That's like a birth, right?
		Like when the baby is born, it's removed from the mother.
		When a baby is born, it's removed from the mother, right?
		So you're talking about birth?
		Elaborate, what do you mean?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I really don't want to debate this any further.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the issue- I would like fewer abortions in the United States.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Granted.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I am sick and tired of weak morals among Republicans who are unwilling- But what good will it do for the conservative pro-life position?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Save lives.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe like- Maybe the issue that I see is that Republicans are centrists who say don't actually, and there's a lot of unabashed conservatives we're now seeing with like the MAGA movement, certainly like the likes of Carrie Lake, Marjorie Taylor Greene, will have no problem answering any of these questions I've asked.
		They would outright say it is murder, it should be stopped, all of it should be banned.
		Seamus Coghlan would come on the show.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		What if Carey Lake loses an election?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what good does it do if Gallego is elected and he... It's just fascinating to me that Democrats will beat the living fuck out of conservatives every single day, and they will crush them in elections, they will lie, cheat, and steal 24-7, and the argument is, well, we better lie about our positions, maybe we'll win then.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		So, I haven't lied to you at all.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You won't answer any of these questions.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I answered your questions.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't.
		Come on.
		Spare me.
		It's a basic question.
		Is abortion yes or no?
		You can say, honestly, I have no thought on whether it is or isn't.
		That's a fine answer.
		You just said, I don't want to talk about it at all.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That's my answer.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Okay, great.
		So, why do you want to stop abortions?
		Because they're barbaric.
		What does that mean, it's barbaric?
		You don't have an answer.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a grim thing.
		It's a grim fact of human existence.
		I would like it to be extremely limited.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think... What does that mean, it's grim?
		I mean, it's really simple if you ask me.
		It's destroying life.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand your moral position at all.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It seems arbitrary and illogical.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I want less.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Fewer.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		For no reason?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Come on, you know why.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why, because you won't answer the question.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And you don't have to, that's fine.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		So, what I see every single day is, and I'm not pro-life, I think there are nuances in the libertarian argument of constitutional limitations as it pertains to a life attached to a woman that can't survive on its own and whether a woman is obligated under the law to provide her body to it and under what circumstances.
		Uh, particularly if the woman shows to open her body to a life, she has effectively become a body, she has provided her body to that person, she now has an obligation for at least nine months.
		But if she was raped, now there's a question of, you cannot, the government cannot mandate a person give their body to another person against their will.
		These are very difficult questions that need to be answered.
		What frustrates me is, I watch the Republicans all day hemming and hawing with Robert Herr and getting nothing.
		And we get Robert Herr who outright admits Joe Biden's a criminal and breaking the law, and Republicans do nothing.
		And when Donald Trump is in office, what do we get?
		We're not going to go after Hillary Clinton.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Would you prefer if he indicts him and the Democrats win the election because it's seen as an overreach?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But why would that be the case?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think it's an overreach.
		I don't think that Trump should be indicted for anything.
		I think they should both be not indicted.
		I think criminalization of politics is bad.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And so the issue that we have right now is Trump is not winning on that argument.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		In fact, he is losing that argument.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		He's up in the polls!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because of the economy.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The polls that show immigration and economics are the number one issue.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		But also his poll numbers, if the X variable is the indictments and the Y variable is the polls, they shot up at the time he started getting indicted last spring.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There is a loose correlation between Donald Trump's indictments and poll increases, but the number one issue... I think it's pretty severe.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And when you ask people why, they say immigration economy.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm not denying that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		In fact, one of the worst elements of the Republican Party is that when I talk to people and say, are you going to vote?
		They say, what's the fucking point?
		Republicans don't do anything.
		We talk about all day on the show.
		I mean, when the midterms happened, and we were all like, oh shit, the Republicans got a narrow majority, everyone on the show are laughing, saying, and now they will begin to do nothing.
		There will be no inverse January 6th committee, there will be no 529 committee, there will be no deep or serious investigations, and anything we do get will be political bickering that will be like, here's why we think Hunter Biden's bad, whereas Democrats indict condemn. They're literally hunting down grannies over
		January 6th. And then I'm supposed to believe that even Donald Trump, who said he was going to arrest
		Hillary and lock her up and then did nothing, and that's fine, arguably initially reasonable. We
		end up with them framing the president for treason, aiding and abetting and working with
		the Russian government.
		And still the Republicans do nothing.
		How am I supposed to make the argument that this is the right choice when Republicans are the quote, slowed down Democrats party and they're terrified to express their actual positions because they think they're going to lose when they're losing.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		If Trump is reelected in November after the Democrats indicted him 95 times, that is going to be a grand rebuke to these tactics.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure, sure.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And I think the grandest mistake Republicans could make would be to adopt the exact same tactics that our voters are about to reject.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And that argument plays in 2024.
		That argument doesn't play in 2021.
		I'm existing in 2024.
		2022 happens, and so I've had this argument over and over again, and one of the funniest things about electoral politics every cycle is that if Libertarians voted Conservative or Republican, the Republicans win every time.
		I mean, it's 5 million more votes in all of these states.
		The Libertarian Party gets about 5 million or whatever votes.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think that's probably a net Republican accrual, but I think some Democrats vote Libertarian.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And if the Libertarians decided to vote, it's the meme where it's like a guy says, I'm not going to vote Republican because I'm a Libertarian.
		And then it shows and there's like crude bit, you know, paintbrush drawings.
		Democrat wins by one vote and then bans guns.
		Because Libertarians don't want to vote Republican.
		Now, I understand that Libertarians don't like the Republican Party.
		But one of the reasons is, when we have any Libertarian on, they say, are you joking?
		What do Republicans even do?
		They win the House, and then are there any rebukes of what the Democrats have been doing with January 6th?
		Nope!
		Just political pandering.
		And so for years, what do we get?
		Hemming and Hawing, Republicans siding with Democrats, the Republicans don't actually have any power, Kevin McCarthy can't get anything done, Kevin McCarthy breaking his promises, and the Republicans prove to be ineffective.
		Donald Trump gets elected, he hires John Bolton.
		How do we win over these people and convince them that Donald Trump winning actually is a net positive?
		I can say, I vote for Trump, no new wars.
		Easy enough, done.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Agreed.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that it actually will solve the problem of abject corruption in this country, because Republicans are going to be shackled by Democrats in Deep State.
		As Chuck Schumer said, they got six waves from Sunday of stopping you, and I see nothing from Republicans to actually do anything about it.
		Entering 2024, now I say, well shit, now we can't impeach Joe Biden.
		Because of the economy and immigration, among other issues, Joe Biden's actually down in the polls and Republicans might actually win in November.
		The only problem?
		They'll do nothing.
		Donald Trump may get his revenge tour, and I think the gloves are off, and that's what I'm hoping for, at the very least, Schedule F, but I do not have high hopes, and I think it would be disingenuous for me to go to any libertarian and say, trust me, this time it will change.
		Certainly, Donald Trump is a big change, but I don't know that I see, like...
		You know, it's a general net positive.
		There will be, sure, less abortions, and perhaps, unless there is a fundamental cultural change in this country, which is why all of the investment that we do with Tim Kass, I don't care to donate to politicians at all.
		It's build culture, set up the Kass brew coffee shop, get people to organize, get people to share ideas with each other, start new shows.
		We're doing big investment in skateboarding, and we are invading the space that the woke have tried to take over, because culture is how you win everything.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Look, I trust you're very well meaning, but these debates are extremely old.
		I mean, if you just go back to the Civil War, similar debates were had between Lincoln and the Radical Republicans over these exact nature.
		And I just continue to side with Lincoln.
		If they had not won the elections in 1860 and 1864, the practice would have been prolonged.
		Yeah.
		So... But we can make ourselves feel good by saying we're the most against it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And what were the Republicans doing and the abolitionists doing?
unidentified		During the period of Civil War, they were... Bleeding Kansas.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What were they doing?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They were fighting over slavery.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Like, so like, you know, John Brown was shooting people in the face.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That was West Virginia, but yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		John Brown, that was actually bleeding Kansas.
		Okay.
		John Brown and his sons were in Kansas.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And John Brown walked up to his neighbor.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think John Brown was executed for murder.
		Treason.
		Okay, treason, murder.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I believe he was the first person to be hanged for treason.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that was, I think that, I think John Brown was a vigilante.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's hailed as a hero.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		By some.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The local casino has his face on their 25 checks.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I understand, I understand.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think that was not a use of his talents.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, the abolitionists were violent.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Not always, not usually.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Sure, not always, but I mean, come on.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think extrajudicial violence is bad.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But if you were on the side of the abolitionists, they were the ones that were engaging and going around and murdering people.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I don't accept that frame, but okay.
		That's a fact.
		John Brown murdered people, yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Bleeding Kansas was quite literally abolitionist forces going into Kansas and killing slave owners.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And slave owners shooting back.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I think that was bad.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The slave owners weren't seeking out abolitionist factions in little cells hidden in caves and houses.
		John Brown's house is down the street.
		Literally, you could walk there in half an hour.
		Well, maybe 15 minutes.
		The abolitionist forces were accruing in slave... like, slavers had farms with slaves.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I know.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And they had shoe factories and things like this.
		The slave owners were not seeking out abolitionists to kill.
		The abolitionists were seeking out slave owners to kill.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When Abraham Lincoln gets elected, before he's inaugurated, seven states said, this is the end of slavery, we secede.
		I think slavery is a really, really bad thing.
		Abraham Lincoln did not abolish slavery.
		Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery in rebellion states and preserved it in states like Maryland and Delaware.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And he won the war.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And he won the war, and after that... They passed the 13th Amendment.
		13th and 14th.
		And then you got the Reconstruction Era, which almost evolved... But Lincoln also tried to avoid the Civil War.
		Sure, but he started it.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The South started the Civil War.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They seceded.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He said he... The secession isn't a war.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it did.
		Yes, it was.
		The secession caused the war.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Caused is not the war, right?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		You could argue— Because the Union would not accept that the South would leave.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Well, so the Union— And they also didn't accept that they were the lawful representatives of the people in the States, that this was an extrajudicial or an extralegal body that had claimed themselves to be the representatives of the South.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the American War for Independence was wrong?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm a big supporter.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But you do know that Britain abolished slavery well before the United States did.
		I think it was like 1820s they abolished slavery?
		1822 maybe?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The slave trade or slavery?
unidentified		Great Britain abolished slavery in... Yeah, easy to do when you're not agricultural in nature.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Ash, it is argued that if the United States lost the war for independence, the crown would have abolished slavery in the States, which likely would have resulted in a civil war.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		The British were unbelievably cynical in the Civil War.
		I mean, half the British were pro-confederate.
		Lord Palmerson had confederate bonds.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The Crown decreed in the Commonwealth States the end of slavery, which would have resulted in conflict in the colonies in the States, where the Southern States would have been fighting against the Crown, and it would have been a different kind of war for independence, but mostly just to keep slaves.
		Ultimately, my point is, you know, I don't know.
		We bring up Abraham Lincoln, we probably should just wrap it up because we're going late, but the Union forces were Like, there's no good guys in the Civil War.
		There's, slavery was an atrocity, and it should have been stopped, we all agree on that, and the Union decided to commit atrocities and defend slavery in the process, which makes- The Union defended slavery?
		100% they defended slavery.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Lincoln's administration?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		First of all, not only was Lincoln, and he wanted to ship all the black people back to Liberia- As a younger man.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Not a younger man.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		While he was president, they wanted to send him to Laconia.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they created Liberia.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That was the 1830s.
		He didn't create Liberia.
		Former slaves did.
		It was founded under... Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Abraham Lincoln, when he issued the Emancipation Proclamation, Military maneuver, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it defended slavery in Union states.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he defended slavery.
		He did not say, slavery is hereby abolished.
		He said, if you've turned against us, we'll take your slaves from you.
		And then he said, for Maryland and Delaware, you're good.
		And I think West Virginia.
		And before he, before the first thing he did with his second term... His position was not abolition.
		His election was the suspension of expansion.
		He said, where slavery exists, it will remain.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Look, he was obviously a politician.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		But the first thing he did when we elected was pass the 13th amendment.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There was, uh... I mean, you can argue states and Reconstruction, and there's deep politics of it, but the point I'm making is not that... You know, I do think it's good that the Union won, but I don't see good guys in the fight between the North and the South.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You can argue that there is good in the ending of slavery, but then you can also argue there is bad in the march to the sea, the ransacking of homes... Oh, sure!
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they murdered slaves.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		There is good and evil people on both sides.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		But I think Lincoln was an able statesman who won the Civil War, and he had clear anti-slavery sympathies, and was very good at achieving his ends.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When I think about, you know, a lot of people like to compare what's going on now to, say, Weimar Germany, or the Spanish Civil War, or the American Civil War, it's fascinating because there's a reason why the left views themselves as the inheritors of the Republican Party of 1860.
		And it's because they are the ones who go around shooting people in the face.
		But it is, it's true.
		They have the John Brown gun club.
		They're psychotic, but they view the slashing of portraits, the torching and destruction of artifacts and statues as- Entire cities.
		Entire cities.
		This is what the abolitionist forces did.
		John Brown seized a train down the street from here.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think this is bad on both sides.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And tried to lead a slave revolt, but the side that won is a side of aggression.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I don't think John Brown was actually particularly helpful.
		How about this?
		The Confederates had a very strong first three years.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The South could have won instantly.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They chose not to.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They could not have won instantly.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's actually a fact.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, they were completely outmanned!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The first battle of Bull Run ended with a Confederate victory and they decided not to march on D.C.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And then the North fought a battle of attrition and they won.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		If the Confederates marched into D.C., the war ended.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		No, they would have moved the capital and they would have kept the war going.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we can argue what would have happened after the fact.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's counterfactual.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a fact that the Confederate forces did not advance in the Battle of Manassas, and they could have taken D.C.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		and taken the capital.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm not debating that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They could have occupied, and they could have restrained and captured politicians.
		They could have forced a lot.
		And it was only because their supplies were being destroyed by an invading North that they eventually decided to make the move on Gettysburg, which was a major catastrophe for a variety of reasons.
		The South had every opportunity very early on, but they kept doing the, we just wanna be left alone.
		And the North said- The South wanna be left alone?
		Yes.
		The Southern states seceded.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Abraham Lincoln then called upon a force to be amassed in Union States to shut down the South.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The votes in, there were four states, I think it was Virginia was not a, the original capital was like in Alabama.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Montgomery.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Montgomery.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And so, when these states were two-to-one against secession, and Abraham Lincoln said, we're now going to call all your men to fight to go, you know, stop the rebellion, that's when sentiment flipped, and they were still, it was still like two-to-one.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm not disagreeing, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He had to actually go and arrest a third of the Maryland legislature because they had- In Delaware, yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, really fucked up shit.
		But this is the North aggressing upon the South, because the South was saying, we do not, we do not agree.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		That's how it's called in the South, the war on aggression.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		But the issue is, plainly, the South says, we hereby dissolve ties.
		The North says, no you don't.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then the North invades the South.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		They didn't accept that they were lawful representatives, and they didn't represent that it was constitutional for the Union to be dissolved.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		And so thus, accordingly, they thought they had the North.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And Ulysses S. Grant wrote, effectively, essentially, that if the South were to have won the war, it would have just been a war for independence, and they would have been right and righteous.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think they thought they were going to have to fight this country forever.
		They would have tried to expand into the Caribbean, have new slave republics that would have been a geopolitical foe.
		They're all different motivations for the Lincoln administration.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, there's no point in debating the Civil War, but the ultimate point I'm making is... It is sort of a cliche, yeah.
		Republicans have been my entire life.
		I mean, they don't do anything.
		They don't organize.
		They don't get out the vote.
		Scott Pressler is the most effective voter registration activist.
		He's ignored.
		They keep Ronna McDaniel in power.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		She's out now.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
		But maybe we can hope that within 16 years, we can see total reformation of the Republican Party and a reforming with a new generation of more based Gen Z. But for the time being, all I see is weakness.
		Maybe it's this.
		Maybe it's shows like this, you know, I grew up an angry leftist, you know, and here I am angry at much of the exact same things, the Federal Reserve's policies, war for bullshit reasons, but the path forward is with Donald Trump, not with the Democrats, and probably never was, Obama was a liar.
		And so I am quite frustrated at the weakness of the conservative Inc.
		And perhaps that's why you end up seeing people say they're going to vote for Trump because he says, I'm going to lock up Hillary and I'm going to burn all shit to the ground.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		I think conservative Inc.' 's values are different than Trump's values.
		And that's where you see the discord, the disconnect.
		I mean, conservative Inc.
		doesn't often agree with the immigration trade and foreign policy positions.
		I think all of us share from what I can gather.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So I'll read one comment, we'll just wrap it up.
		This is from Vetiv, and we went way over.
		He says, Tim is off the rails.
		Kurt knows how to win a political game, Tim doesn't, and once again dug into his obvious moral argument, spare me.
		So I'll answer that, and you see you got fans, they agree with you on this one.
		The left has won all of these fights for 20 years, and they're not playing this game.
		There's a video, I'll play the video.
		We have it.
		Let me see, uh, here we go.
		Listen to this.
unidentified		How many genders are there?
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		I feel like there's two because like Trish said- No, Cass!
unidentified		Don't say that on camera.
		Yeah, but I feel like you either switch from a boy to a girl or you can switch back and forth.
		Stop, stop, stop.
		I feel like it doesn't matter.
		It doesn't matter.
		Whatever you want to be, it's fine.
		It's okay.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I feel like they switch back and forth.
unidentified		Yeah, but like, it doesn't really matter.
		Like, you can be anything you want to be.
		It doesn't matter.
		Come on, stop, stop.
hannah claire brimelow ▲ ● ▼		Great, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
unidentified		How many?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Okay, maybe that's fake.
		I don't know.
		You think it's fake?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I think that's fake.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Why is it fake?
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		I think that's just a manufactured video to make people on both sides of the political aisle debate this idea.
shane cashman ▲ ● ▼		Although that might be fake, that is a very real thing that does happen in society.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		It's functionally real.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Though most people in this country will tell you outright child sex changes should be banned, they will publicly, on camera, say child sex changes are a good thing.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because the Democrats rule through terror and violence, and it works.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm not gonna say that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Say what?
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		I'm not gonna say child sex changes are good.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I mean, most conservatives will say no, but the average person is gonna be like, dude, I'll lose my job.
		We have pro-skateboarders.
		They hit me up and they're like, I'm terrified of what's going on.
		It's so crazy.
		If I say anything, I'll lose my job.
		I'll lose everything.
		And I'm like, OK, well, you know, all that is required for people to triumph is that good men do nothing.
		So congratulations.
		You are you are that that the problem of the world that, you know.
		So this is my point.
		Conservatives keep playing the centrist game.
		They, uh, Trump was the first big ask.
		He came out and he said, we're gonna, we're gonna ban all Muslims coming into the country until we can figure out what the hell's really going on.
		And he went extremely, he actually argued A counter-position to the left for the first time I'd ever actually seen.
		Because, you know, usually it was just... The example I like to use is misgendering.
		Republicans say, don't ban anyone.
		Democrats say, ban anyone who disagrees with our ideology.
		Why don't Republicans say, ban anyone who disagrees with our ideology?
		They don't do it.
		So as long as you're arguing from a centrist position, then the middle ground is going to be center-left.
		Anyway, we'll wrap it up there.
		It's been fun.
		Thanks for hanging out with us.
		Appreciate it.
		And for everybody who was hanging out and called in, we'll wrap it up.
		Oh, it was fun.
		Wild day.
		We'll be back tomorrow.
		Smash the like button, whatever.
unidentified		I don't know.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We're not on YouTube anymore.
		Kurt, thanks for hanging out.
		It was a blast.
curt mills ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		Yeah, no, no.
		It was good.
		Didn't mean to close by debating abortion and civil war.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was good, though.
unidentified		It was fun.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It was good.
		And thanks for everybody else.
		We'll be back tomorrow and whatever.
unidentified		Adios.

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