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Feb. 16, 2024 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:03:08
DA Prosecuting Trump Fani Willis May Have Admitted To FELONY On Stand w/Rep Massie | Timcast IRL
Participants
Main voices
h
hannah claire brimelow
06:23
i
ian crossland
08:20
p
phil labonte
09:00
t
thomas massie
43:49
t
tim pool
49:53
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Speaker Time Text
tim pool
Today, Fannie Willis, the DA who brought the charges against Trump at all over trying to overturn the election 2020, testified and it is, it was pretty crazy testimony.
Now, there's a viral claim going around.
At one point, she says that she took cash out of her campaign And kept it, implying she used that cash to reimburse her then boyfriend for luxurious gifts.
Okay, I'm sorry, not really gifts, because she paid him back in cash with no receipts.
This whole thing's wild.
And, uh, you know, we're gonna have to break this one down because there are some people saying It was actually her money she loaned to the campaign in the first place and when the campaign ended she only paid back a small portion of it but it was a large sum of cash she kept in cash so it's not necessarily like campaign donations or anything like that but we have to break this one down and then go through the ridiculous claims.
The gist of the story goes like this.
She's dating this guy that she appoints to be the lead prosecutor going against Donald Trump and everybody else.
He paid for lavish vacations.
She claimed in filings she never received a gift from a prohibited person, for which her boyfriend would have been.
And then to sort of clear it all up, they both said, oh, it's not a gift because she paid him back in cash and there are no receipts or statements or withdrawal forms or anything like that because it was just that she happens to keep $9,000 typically in cash lying around and she likes to travel around the world with large sums of money.
It was so shocking that apparently someone burst out laughing in the courtroom and the judge told him to stop.
So we're going to talk about that.
Plus, you know, we were trying to figure out maybe this is the bigger story, but The Biden DOJ has just criminally charged a witness against the Joe Biden family.
So, take that for what you will.
Okay, yeah, we're gonna talk about that.
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Joining us tonight to discuss this and a whole lot more is Rep.
Thomas Massey.
thomas massie
How are you doing, Tim?
tim pool
I'm doing great.
How are you?
thomas massie
A little bit depressed.
Rough week in Congress.
I was going to be here tomorrow night, but they called off the Congress this week.
Because we were supposed to reform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act so that the government would have to get a warrant to spy on you.
But some folks blew all that up this week.
They didn't want to have the vote because they sensed that Congress was going to be constitutional this week.
So they just terminated.
tim pool
Well, you said it was a, you know, a rough week.
And I was thinking, I'd imagine every time you go there, it's rough.
I couldn't imagine it.
thomas massie
It's like, you know, walking in the door knowing somebody's going to swing a 2x4 and hit you in the forehead.
And you could get excited about that for a couple weeks, but after 10 years of getting hit with the 2x4, it gets a little tiresome.
tim pool
I think we definitely got to talk about what's going on in Congress.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
There's too much to say right now in the intro, so thank you for hanging out, and we'll get to all that.
We got Hannah-Claire Brimlow hanging out.
hannah claire brimelow
Hey, I'm Hannah-Claire Brimlow.
I'm a writer for scnr.com.
That's Scanner News.
I'm really happy to be here with everyone tonight.
Phil's here too.
phil labonte
Hello, everybody.
My name is Phil Labonte.
I am the lead singer of the heavy metal band All That Remains, anti-communist and counter-resolutionary.
ian crossland
Counter-resolutionary?
phil labonte
I stumbled a little bit.
ian crossland
I like how you said that.
phil labonte
I'm a little nervous because my hero Thomas Massie is here.
ian crossland
Thomas Massie is the most based member of Congress.
I don't care what Grok says.
phil labonte
Absolutely.
ian crossland
I'm going to take this opportunity to crack my drink.
tim pool
We asked Grok, and it was a toss-up between, we asked who was the most based member of Congress, and it said Thomas Massie, Ana Paulina Luna, or Matt Gaetz.
And then, you know, we were like, no, no, no, don't don't give us the list.
Tell us who is the person.
And unfortunately, it's at Ana Paulina Luna.
thomas massie
You know what I like is when I ask it, it says it's me.
So it's clearly trying to flatter me or influence Congress.
phil labonte
You know what it's doing?
It's telling you that you're doing a good job to keep it up.
That's exactly what it is.
tim pool
You know what's going to happen is there's going to be a bill introduced to ban grok and Tom's going to be like, no, no!
We must keep it!
ian crossland
We also have Bucko in the house.
I don't know if he's in the shot at the moment.
He's chilling over here.
hannah claire brimelow
He's sulking at me because I wouldn't let him climb into the Congressman's lap.
He wants to sit with our guests.
ian crossland
Now he's zenning out.
All right, dude, go for it.
unidentified
Yeah, he's there.
I'm here too, guys, as usual.
I'm ready for the show when you are.
tim pool
Here we go.
This is the crazy story.
I don't know about you guys, but I was glued to this testimony all day watching.
It was very entertaining.
So this is Fannie Willis.
She's the DA in Georgia.
She's the one who brought these charges against Donald Trump and basically everybody else.
Now it's found out that basically it is believed she lied on government forums about a relationship she was having, funds she was receiving, she's basically funneling money to her boyfriend.
It is a major scandal and even MSNBC has this viral clip where they're saying she's probably going to get disqualified.
I think it's worse than that.
Many people are saying that she appears to have admitted to many different felonies trying to stumble over and cover up the potential crimes she's being accused of now.
The wild thing about this case... I don't know, did you guys watch it?
ian crossland
I watched about 10 minutes of it, or 15 minutes of it.
tim pool
I was watching the testimony, and then I also watched some Fox News, and I forgot the host's name, but she's a former... I think she's a judge.
Fannie Willis is yelling at the lawyers.
She's refusing to answer questions.
Man, you needed a bowl of popcorn, alright?
Because this is how the trial would go.
They would ask something like, did Mr. Wade ever spend the night with you?
Spend?
Like, what does it mean to spend?
Did he ever stay with you?
Stay?
Well, I don't know if I would call it staying.
Okay.
And then it finally got to the point where the lawyer's like, did he ever visit the place where you lay your head?
And I'm like, where's the judge to be like, stop, what are you doing?
ian crossland
Did you ever have a conversation with him?
And she's like, I didn't have a substantive conversation with him.
phil labonte
It depends on what the meaning of the word is, is.
And Thomas Massey knows exactly what I'm talking about.
This is 100% the playbook that Bill Clinton was using when he was being, when the investigation for Monica Lewinsky was going on.
hannah claire brimelow
No, my favorite part of all of this was when they're asking her they asked both of them to like define the timeline of the relationship and both of them are like vaguely we started dating at this time we can say but he says the relationship ends like in June and she says it ends in August and she's like well he's a man he would say that.
We had the toughest conversation.
Right after this, she's going to start a relationship podcast and lead us all into a stray.
tim pool
She's like, he's a man.
So when it stopped getting physical, he said it was over.
But for me, it's a bit different.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
So basically, what this means is, let me pull this up to give everybody the context as we get into this.
This is the Georgia election racketeering prosecution, the state of Georgia v. Donald J. Trump et al, pending criminal case.
I have to imagine that following this testimony and this scandal, you are going to have every defendant, well, at least the ones who didn't plead guilty and then go crying on TV after funneling away hundreds of thousands of dollars, they're going to be filing challenges saying, like, this is malicious prosecution, it's got to be thrown out.
This is an absolutely wild case to hear.
If she does not get removed and criminally charged, I would not be surprised.
But even if she gets removed, it's like, we'll be lucky to see any actual accountability in terms of any of this.
ian crossland
If she gets removed, what happens with the case that she had been prosecuting?
tim pool
I think they'd have to remove both her and the lead prosecutor.
ian crossland
Do they need to just call the case like a mistrial and start over?
Or do they just swap someone in?
unidentified
I don't know.
tim pool
They'd have to ask a lawyer.
hannah claire brimelow
I don't think they can swap anyone in, right?
I mean, she's the one who brought the charges.
I am not a lawyer.
I am not from Georgia.
I don't know how any of this works.
But to a certain extent, you know, the trial is ongoing.
I think the closest thing to do is get a mistrial.
I don't know if that exempts him.
thomas massie
But it's not going to exonerate him from this charge.
hannah claire brimelow
Unfortunately.
And they'll sell it as, well, crazy MAGA whoever went after poor Fannie Willis, who's just trying to live life and have an undefined relationship with this man while she collects money from her campaign.
Ultimately, it's not going to be the same thing as clearing Trump's name.
tim pool
Let me play this clip for you.
This video is going insanely viral.
Everybody's reposting it.
it. This is MSNBC that you're hearing. It's it's so legalistic centric and yet so
unidentified
important and fascinating. Right. Don't let the legalese fool you. This is epic. This is
monumental. If things are going in the direction we think Fannie Willis lied to the court, it's
game over for her. She will be disqualified if they had a relationship prior to when they
represented to the court. It's a huge deal. I can't overstate it.
And do you feel the same way, Charles, based on the testimony of what we just heard?
Alright, so that was right before he was about to testify.
tim pool
So, let me slow down.
There's so much to go through here, and let me just state it this way.
I don't know, we have this article, we can see what the New York Times says will happen next.
So basically, she may have chosen her boyfriend to run this case, giving him a bunch of money.
At question is, did she receive, there's like several questions, one of them is, she filled out a form saying she did not receive any gifts from prohibited persons.
And that would be anything valued $100 or more from a variety of individuals, but personal relationships, you know, sexual or romantic relationships are included in that.
And she said no.
When asked, she said, well, it's because those lavish vacations that are on record on credit cards with credit card statements and all the information proving it, we paid that all back.
I paid that all back in cash that I just happened to have lying around.
And then Hilarity ensues as there's numerous questions about, how do you have this cash lying around?
You're going to Belize with thousands of dollars, and nobody believes it.
It is the perfect, it is their only excuse.
Otherwise, she's basically caught having committed serious crimes.
So now, we have this trial, and I guess the question will be, is the judge going to be honest and hold her to account?
I think it's worrisome that she was acting up to an insane degree on the stand, insulting the lawyers, refusing to answer questions.
When she was asked whether or not Nathan Wade had ever stayed at her residence, she goes, my residence?
No.
And like, any place you live.
Any place I live?
I only lived one place.
You owned multiple properties, but I only lived in one of them.
Did he ever stay at any property you owned?
That I own?
Stay?
What do you mean?
I don't understand the question.
And that was for like a half an hour straight.
hannah claire brimelow
It reminds me of when you read about people who are, like, true, they're a narcissistic personality disorder.
Like, she's thinking she can outsmart any lawyer there by just kind of weaseling her way out of the world.
Words.
It just also reminds me of when Bob Mendez got charged with his most recent scandal and they asked him why you have all this cash on hand.
He's like, well, as the child of immigrants, you know, this is just something we do because things don't always feel secure.
Like, there was always a spin that you're sort of not supposed to question.
And that's kind of what I'm waiting for now, like, for her to be like, Well, the reason this relationship and the way acted was okay is because insert insane reason here.
tim pool
The New York Times says that if she is disqualified, the case would be reassigned to another Georgia prosecutor, who would then have the ability to continue the case exactly as is or make major changes, such as adding or dropping charges or defendants, or even drop the case altogether.
The decision to drop the case would end the prosecution of Mr. Trump and his allies for their actions in Georgia after the 2020 election, when the former president sought to overturn his loss in the state.
It would be up to a state entity called the Prosecuting Attorneys Council of Georgia to find someone else to take up the case.
More specifically, the decision would fall to the council's executive director, Pete Scandalakis.
What a name.
ian crossland
His last name is Scandal?
tim pool
Scandalakis.
ian crossland
Scandalakis.
tim pool
Or we can call it Scandalicus.
ian crossland
Don't judge a man by his name.
unidentified
No.
hannah claire brimelow
Scandalicus is way better.
tim pool
Scandalicus.
In an interview on Wednesday, he said that he could ask a prosecutor to take on Trump's case voluntarily, but he could also appoint a prosecutor to do the job, whether that prosecutor wanted to or not.
This is crazy.
That's the current state of politics in this country.
These people are corrupt.
I think, you know, I'll put it simply.
They're as corrupt as you imagine they could be.
And they... I feel like they're going to get away with it.
ian crossland
I don't think Fonny.
It's Fonny, I think.
tim pool
Yeah, even if she gets disqualified, so what?
ian crossland
Yeah, but if she used, um, if she took gifts, that's a big deal.
And if she, uh, if she paid him back with money, cash that she'd received from previous campaigns, I think she actually said that on the stand, that she had cash left over from, like, old campaign donations, which is also illegal, and that no one really pressed her on it when she said it, but she said it.
tim pool
Well, she didn't say that.
ian crossland
What did she say?
tim pool
She took cash out from her bank.
We'll get to that in a bit.
I mean, because that's a whole thing that has to be broken down.
Because everyone's accusing her of having committed a felony.
hannah claire brimelow
Do you think there's going to be another prosecutor that wants to be assigned to this case?
I mean, if it comes to that, is there someone or are they going to be like, no, I've got skeletons in my closet.
Like, I don't want any media.
This case is such a lightning rod for media attention.
thomas massie
People, people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
ian crossland
Right.
thomas massie
And looks like she was in a glass house.
We don't know which residence that was and whether Wade stayed there or not.
hannah claire brimelow
Define stayed and Wade.
thomas massie
It's definitely glass and it's breaking.
tim pool
I mean most of the... Trump's also going to... His effort to stop the hush money payment trial in New York is advancing.
I just... I have no idea what we can expect to happen in November.
hannah claire brimelow
It's fine, it keeps the plotline alive.
ian crossland
I suppose maybe we're crafting it as we go.
tim pool
Sure thing, I suppose.
But let's jump to this.
So this is the story that's a more inner component of this.
Did Fanny Willis admit to committing a felony on the stand, or a series of them?
In this clip that's going viral, several people are reposting it.
When asked how she had the cash to pay back her boyfriend for these lavish trips, she said that, you know, when you go to the grocery store, you have 50 bucks lying around, you just keep the cash.
My dad always told me to keep money, and I didn't.
You know, if he found out how little money I'd have, he'd be mad at me, actually.
She says she has around $9,000 lying around at any given moment.
And she said that what happened was, When she took out large amounts of money from her first campaign, she kept that.
She then quickly moves on.
Now, many people are pointing out that is a very serious crime, because not only is she saying she took out money from her campaign to keep for cash, she then used that to pay her boyfriend, who was buying her lavish vacations, and she was paying it back.
Which sounds like very serious criminal territory, but there is some nuance.
Let me play the clip for you, and you can hear from her what she said.
unidentified
But I always have cash at the house.
That has been, I don't know, all my life.
If you're a woman and you go on a date with a man, you better have $200 in your pocket.
So if that man acts up, you can go where you want to go.
So I keep cash in my house.
And I don't keep cash as good in my purse like I used to, because I don't go on many dates.
But when you go on a date, you should have cash in your pocket.
So my question was, where did that cash originally come from?
tim pool
I'd just like to point out, she was asked where did the cash come from, and then she went on this diatribe about going out with guys and having to have cash because they could act a fool or whatever.
hannah claire brimelow
She was accused several times of filibustering, that she's trying to pat her her way through not answering these questions, and so here's... She also says... I mean, my dad also gave me the advice, like, when you go out with a guy, bring cash, make sure you have a way to, like, pay or leave or do whatever, but That doesn't account for I left it at my house and it's $9,000.
Like, this dating podcast is whack.
tim pool
There's no record of any of the money.
There's no receipts or withdrawal statements.
It's just there.
But here's what she goes on to say.
unidentified
It came out of the bank.
Cash is fungible.
I had cash for years in my house.
So for me to tell you the source of when it comes from, When you go to Publix and you buy something, you get $50, you throw it in there.
It's been my whole life.
When I took out a large amount of money on my first campaign, I kept some of the cash of that.
Like, to tell you, I just have cash in my house.
I don't have as much today as I would normally have, but I'm building back up now.
So you just put money in.
It's a very good practice.
I would advise it to all women.
So you can't identify when you came into this cash or where the cash came from?
I didn't say I couldn't identify it.
Nobody gives me anything.
I am sure that the source of the money is always the work, sweat, and tears of me.
What you asked me before is, when did the money go in there?
What I am trying to tell you is, so I got divorced in 2005 from my husband.
No, no, no.
It's important to say where the money comes from and I need to tell you where the money comes from.
tim pool
This is very much out of the Vladimir Putin playbook.
ian crossland
The history of Russia.
phil labonte
I'm enjoying this, honestly.
This is really good TV.
hannah claire brimelow
It's like Putin slash man-hating feminism.
unidentified
She's like, well, I got divorced and men have wronged me, so stop asking me where the cash is coming from.
ian crossland
If your lawyer and the witness stops you and goes, no, no, no, don't you just turn to the judge and request to treat them as hostile?
tim pool
Yes.
And they did not do that.
thomas massie
Well, this is the part, too, where she said, I took a lot of money out for the campaign and kept it.
Now the question is, what did she mean?
The most charitable interpretation of that is, she went to the bank, she took a lot of money out, and she put some of it in her campaign, and some of it in her pocket.
But why would you take it all out in cash if you're going to give it to your campaign?
That's not how... you don't give your campaign cash.
tim pool
Let me play that again, we can hear exactly what she said.
unidentified
I just have cash in my house.
I don't have as much today as I would normally have.
tim pool
Where did you say it was, back here?
unidentified
How much cash does she normally have in her house?
When you go to Publix and you buy something, you get $50, you throw it in there.
It's been my whole life.
When I took out a large amount of money on my first campaign, I kept some of the cash of that.
tim pool
I took out a large amount of money on my first campaign, she said.
So what does that mean, on her first campaign?
So this is an important distinction.
Stephen Fowler of NPR says, Willis says elsewhere in the hearing, when I ran for judge, I took $50,000 of my personal money out of my retirement, and that money ended up being lost.
According to her records, he says in her failed judicial run, she loaned herself $49,000 and only paid back $8,500.
Before terminating that campaign, running out of money, she then ran for DA a few years later.
However, I will add, it's not surprising that we're immediately going to get some kind of justification for what she did, how she did it, and how it makes sense.
I don't think that actually changes the fact that we don't know the full context of what she did when she said she did it.
Stephen Fowler is presenting a plausible reason that could make sense, and in his charitable interpretation, she took out $50,000 in cash from her bank, kept a large portion of it, and then put the rest into her campaign.
ian crossland
But you're saying it's not normal for people to put cash into a campaign?
You do it with a check or something?
thomas massie
No, you would do it with a wire transfer.
But maybe, I'm trying to be super charitable here, maybe she means I put $49,000 or $50,000 in there, and then when I paid myself back, I just cashed those checks.
Maybe that's what she means when she got the $7,000 or $8,000.
tim pool
And perhaps, I think either way, considering everything else she said, she should be investigated.
I also don't believe her.
At all.
Like, the idea that she says, when my campaign's over, what's the smartest thing I can do?
I would like $10,000 in cash, please.
hannah claire brimelow
Look, she's gotten divorced recently.
She's got to keep cash on hand.
This is a completely ridiculous argument to me.
I don't know how much stock you want to put in it, but the fact that she's leaning away and touching her face is typically considered, like, deceptive body language.
So there's obviously something weird in the fact that she won't just say, like, ah, yes, I cashed that one check and that's why I have this here.
Like, Trying to make it so she can later say, oh, well, I went to Publix a lot, so that's how I built up $9,000.
It doesn't make sense.
Because she can't remember where it came from, because it's a lie, she's got to keep it open-ended.
tim pool
200 trips?
hannah claire brimelow
Of her whole life!
And she doesn't go on dates anymore.
unidentified
She goes every day.
tim pool
She goes every work day to Publix and she comes back with $50 in cash.
hannah claire brimelow
She goes to the salad bar and comes back with $50.
tim pool
Very reasonable.
I think if she pays $100 bills and takes the change and puts it in her piggy bank.
ian crossland
If she paid her boyfriend back with cash and there's no receipt, then legally, she didn't pay him back.
Just them saying that that happened isn't a legal justification.
If there's no receipt, then it didn't happen in the court.
Maybe there's testimony?
tim pool
I wonder, look, in the criminal element of this, She received a gift and then lied on an election form.
So there's a series of crimes that were likely... laws that were likely violated in that case.
We can prove, for a fact, based on credit card statements, they went on these vacations, the tickets were purchased for her.
There is no evidence she actually paid any of it back.
How would that work in a criminal case?
It is interesting because you do have, there is potential reasonable doubt.
You do have the ability to have cash and pay someone back with it.
That being said, if I was on a jury stand, Or, you know, at a trial.
And someone said, I did not receive a gift from the gentleman.
I paid him back in cash.
I would say, nice try, dude.
That's like $3,000 in cash you'd have to pay back.
I don't buy it.
thomas massie
This is reminiscent of some of the Biden claims that these were just loans, you know, when they see a transfer and they say, oh, I was paying back a loan.
tim pool
Yep.
thomas massie
And but there's no evidence of the loan because the loan presumably How much was it in that case?
There was that car couple.
unidentified
What was it?
thomas massie
The car loan or something?
phil labonte
I want to say $200,000, but I don't know exactly.
thomas massie
I think that's what it was roughly.
ian crossland
I don't know the situation.
What's the Biden loan situation?
thomas massie
Well, they said, why did you give him $200,000 or whatever the number was?
Like $164,000 or something?
phil labonte
Hunter had loaned the money to Joe, was the story, and Joe was paying the money back to Hunter?
Am I recalling correctly?
tim pool
I think this one was less than that.
phil labonte
I think that was the story.
ian crossland
Why would Joe Biden need a loan?
Isn't he super rich?
thomas massie
I'm not saying whether that really happened or not, I'm just saying this is where they go.
They say, oh, it was a loan, and we were paying back a loan, and part of this deal was in cash, and so you can't track the ledger.
tim pool
Right.
Half of it's not in cash, half of it we have a receipt for, and half of it- Look, can you criminally convict someone for not having a receipt?
You know what I mean?
That's- that's the challenge.
So it seems extremely likely that Fannie Will has lied over and over and over again, but this is why perjury charges almost never- never, uh, happen.
It's- it- it- I gotta tell you, like, she knows what she's doing, okay?
Someone says to me, like, did you ever order, uh, Papa John's to your house?
unidentified
No.
tim pool
I was gonna say, but I have a receipt here for 10 Papa John's pizzas.
Actually, we ordered a ton on Fat Tuesday, because it's Fat Tuesday, we had to order pizza.
And, uh, I wanted to order pancakes, but we were too late, so we got pizzas instead.
But they're gonna be like, I see here that several pizzas were delivered to an address.
Is this not your address?
I'm like, oh, that is my address.
It's not my house, though.
Is it a house?
It is.
Do you live there?
I do not.
So it is not your house?
Well, it's an office.
Okay, have you ever had pizzas delivered to your office?
unidentified
No.
tim pool
Didn't you just say, well that's not my office, it's a office!
So no matter what you do, no matter how the question's asked, you can give whatever answer you want, and they can't charge you with lying because for the most, they rarely can, because for the most part it's just, this is where I got to the point where she was asked, did he ever come to a place where you laid your head?
It's like, I'm sitting here thinking, these lawyers don't know how to ask these questions.
Eventually, one good lawyer got up and seemed to know how to ask her questions, and then the judge stopped him.
ian crossland
Yeah, because if you ask her, did he ever stay at your house, and she says no, then you say, okay, he never stayed at your residence.
And then you just clarify, he never did it, and then you move on.
And if it's found out later that he did, she's the liar, she perjured herself.
tim pool
No, she didn't.
ian crossland
Rather than be like, are you sure you're telling me the truth?
Are you sure you want to rephrase it?
Don't give her a chance to rephrase it.
tim pool
It's not about rephrasing.
It's that you can't bring perjury charges because they'll say, when asked if he stayed at her residence, she said no.
And she'll be like, well, yeah.
I mean, he came over for a few hours one time, but I wouldn't call it staying there.
ian crossland
But it is staying there.
tim pool
When someone stays there, it's like for a week or two.
No, it's an interpretation.
It's an opinion on a statement.
When you say, my friend's coming to stay with me, you might mean for a month or two or three.
phil labonte
This is actually something a thing that happens in law frequently and it's it's something that they have historically covered with a reasonable person would say and that's really nowadays that is becoming harder and harder to kind of narrow down what a reasonable person to say but would say but that is something that if you look at laws there are laws all over the place where reasonable people is the standard and nowadays no one's fucking reasonable!
tim pool
You know what I would do if I was a lawyer in this case, guys?
unidentified
Right?
tim pool
Am I right?
unidentified
You're right.
tim pool
You wanna know what my first question would be?
ian crossland
Hyperbolically, yeah.
tim pool
I would say, uh, Dia Willis, uh, thank you for your time, uh, my first question is, is Nathan Waite a man?
hannah claire brimelow
She can't say.
Why would you assume someone's gender?
tim pool
That's it.
They'd be like, what's the purpose?
Roland Lang Foundation for questions about a relationship.
Is he a man?
How would you define man?
phil labonte
You need to get an expert.
hannah claire brimelow
Which is ridiculous.
tim pool
Ridiculous. I don't care what it is. Anytime I get an opportunity to have some leftist on a trial under oath
I'm going to ask them that question. Are you a man or a woman?
Okay, how would you define how do you are you sure? How do you know?
phil labonte
I mean exactly and this is something that we were, you know talking about earlier
It's a frustrating thing because the the means we have to manage the government as the population
The government is currently shrinking to the best of their ability and we're forced to accept
things like a Standard that we have managed to use
Reliably for 250 years now we can no longer use which is again the reasonability standard
And it's because of things that are actually unreasonable.
We have a Supreme Court justice That doesn't know, will not answer what a man or a woman is.
Refuses to, and we allowed that to stand.
That's the problem.
We should have, someone should have stood up in Congress or in the Senate and said, no, we're not going to let this happen.
You cannot be on the court if you will not be, if you refuse to judge what a woman or a man is.
And no one stood up and did it and they did it because they were afraid they'd be called names.
tim pool
I want to jump to this story.
Which is about the deep-seated corruption in our government.
Biden DOJ arrests former FBI informant who said Biden took bribes from Ukrainian energy company from the post-millennial.
I can simplify this for you.
The Biden Department of Justice has arrested a witness against Joe Biden.
I mean, what do you do?
ian crossland
Who's the name of this guy?
tim pool
So this is funny.
It's funny.
This is, um, former FBI informant Alexander Smirnoff, 43, arrested Thursday.
You know what's funny about this?
And you know why I don't believe it for two seconds?
So this guy's a whistleblower accusing the Bidens of taking bribes.
CNN has already called it, what do they call it, the now debunked?
Or, uh, what did they say?
Here we go.
They say special counsel David Weiss charged a former FBI informant with lying about President
Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden's involvement in business dealings with the Ukraine Energy
Company.
Smirnov offends charges of connection with lying, blah, blah, blah.
Here we go.
Congressional Republicans have championed Smirnov's now discredited allegations.
CNN is reporting it because of an indictment that proves the whistleblower is a liar and
his claims have been discredited.
There's been no trial.
There's been no adjudication.
Quite literally, all that has happened is Biden's DOJ has arrested the man accusing Biden of committing a crime.
And CNN goes, oh, well, that proves it.
thomas massie
Who did who did they arrest for the Russian hoax?
unidentified
No one.
tim pool
Kevin Clinesmith.
phil labonte
Kevin Kleinsmith?
tim pool
Kevin Kleinsmith.
Yeah.
The FBI lawyer who fabricated the email to get a false visa warrant.
No, no, no.
thomas massie
He didn't get arrested.
He got a slap on the wrist.
tim pool
Well, he got arrested.
Yeah.
And he got criminally charged and he got probation.
He didn't go to prison!
unidentified
Yeah.
phil labonte
That's a difference!
thomas massie
But he did something different than in this case.
He lied to a judge, he lied to a court, he falsified a document, correct?
tim pool
Oh yeah, he should be in prison.
thomas massie
So, but my question is like, you know, you had these characters like Joseph Misfud, who just disappears into the ether, who was feeding this information to the FBI and to the U.S.
government that turned out to be a hoax.
Or the guy that compiled the dossier, did he ever go to jail?
tim pool
The Steele?
He's British.
Christopher Steele?
thomas massie
Is Smirnoff?
tim pool
That's true, fair point.
thomas massie
I assume he's not American.
tim pool
Yeah, he's not American either.
Julian Assange is in jail, he's not American.
Well, it seems to me that there is a criminal conspiracy currently underway within the United States government.
The reporting from Michael Schellenberger and Alex Gutentag and Matt Taibbi has been rather revealing.
Have you seen that stuff?
phil labonte
I haven't seen what came out today.
tim pool
So it's a story from yesterday.
So I think today one did come out.
This is the final chapter in the story.
But there's allegedly this binder.
thomas massie
Oh yeah, I've seen this.
tim pool
It has information pertaining to the start of the Russiagate hoax and the Crossfire Hurricane, basically the conspiracy to overthrow the United States government, as I would describe it.
And the question is, who has it?
Some argue that Donald Trump took it, or someone in his administration took it, and that's why they raided his home.
They're desperately trying to find it, because it's evidence.
However, one source told Michael Schellenberger, in fact, they have it hidden themselves, because they don't want it to get out.
So if anyone requests it, there's a FOIA or anything, they're like, we don't have it.
ian crossland
Why wouldn't they just burn it?
tim pool
I mean, why did they write an article called the shadow campaign to save the 2020 election?
And I'll mention this too because we're kind of all over the place right now, but if you think 2020 was a shadow campaign.
You better damn well believe there's a shadow campaign going on right now instead of the 2024 election.
ian crossland
What I think is happening, this is my bird's eye view hypothesis, is that we're transitioning from our liberal economic order, our 80 year old order, to this new world order and that there's people trying to facilitate that and they're willing to commit crimes in order to make that happen and at the same time cover up the crimes that they've been committing to make this happen.
Like, creating new crimes.
tim pool
No, I kind of agree with you, but I think you're wrong.
I think we're transitioning from a liberal economic order into a communist utopia.
ian crossland
That, unfortunately, may be the new world order if we don't do it right.
tim pool
This would be the first time it's ever been tried, in fact.
That's where we're currently at.
ian crossland
You know, utopia is supposed to be spelled E-U.
That means good place.
Utopia, with an E. The letter U, that's just Thomas, whoever wrote the book.
tim pool
Sir Thomas More?
ian crossland
Yeah, Thomas More wrote that, and it's actually a very dystopian place in his book.
hannah claire brimelow
Yes, the EU is also a dystopian place.
ian crossland
EU-topia.
tim pool
EU-topia.
ian crossland
It does feel like the US government's been hijacked by global banking industries and they're just selling us out and moving us towards this new corporate governance.
tim pool
Well, I don't know.
You work with these people.
What do you think?
thomas massie
We're transitioning.
I mean, the whole term disinformation, for instance, you have to control the information to set up this new alternate reality, this utopia.
And we know they're doing it.
Like, you know, on the Weaponization Committee, I've sat there, I've looked at the documents, the communications from the White House to the social media companies where they're trying to control all of this and all of the elements of a dystopian future.
Are there?
tim pool
How come the Republicans are so bad at everything?
thomas massie
Which part do you want to get into?
There may be different reasons.
hannah claire brimelow
What's making you most depressed right now?
tim pool
Yeah, there you go.
That's a good place to start.
hannah claire brimelow
Let's talk about you being depressed.
Welcome to Grimcast.
tim pool
You're wearing a national debt tracker.
ian crossland
Yes, I built this.
thomas massie
By the way, it's an anxiety generator.
hannah claire brimelow
Do you feel like you have a bomb strapped to your trash chest?
thomas massie
Yes, yeah.
tim pool
Now hold on, hold on.
That's actually tracking the national debt, right?
thomas massie
Correct.
tim pool
So does that mean the rate of growth will increase or decrease based on spending in Congress?
thomas massie
Yes.
ian crossland
Wow.
thomas massie
In fact, some people vote.
By the way, I'm wearing this on my lapel.
And I wear it every day, every moment I'm in Congress.
And now I've got members of Congress.
tim pool
That's a great resolution.
thomas massie
They're voting and then turning and looking at my debt clock to see if their vote changed.
phil labonte
That's the best!
thomas massie
Then I had one congresswoman who couldn't stop staring at it and I had to tell her my eyes were up here.
hannah claire brimelow
Women are out of control.
tim pool
I'm always trying to stare at a man's national debt.
thomas massie
No, she told me to make a belt buckle out of it.
ian crossland
Oh, that's a great idea.
tim pool
Yeah, that's a good one.
ian crossland
You could have a whole line of, like, Ray-Bans, where it's just, like, along the top of the sunglasses.
tim pool
Yeah.
thomas massie
Well, let me just finish this.
So I built this debt clock.
Like, I built it a year ago.
I wrote the code.
There's about 1,500 lines of code.
It goes to Treasury once a day, gets the actual debt to the penny, because that's as frequently as they publish it.
And then it tells you at any given moment what the closest estimation of the debt is right now.
And Tim, I brought you one.
phil labonte
Oh, awesome!
tim pool
Right on.
thomas massie
It's called a debt badge.
ian crossland
Can people buy those?
Do they buy those from like your website or anything?
thomas massie
Now, I refuse to monetize the debt, so I'm not selling it.
But somebody I know is.
That's the best.
They took my design and improved it a little bit.
This is the new and improved 3D printed case.
It's nylon impact resistant.
phil labonte
Oh, nice.
thomas massie
But it's a debt badge.
You go to debtbadge.com and you can get one of these and depress yourself and never get invited back to a party.
ian crossland
I do enjoy going to usdebtclock.org from time to time and just watching it spin up.
thomas massie
And you know what?
It's inaccurate.
The DebtClock.org.
ian crossland
Oh, by how much and in what way?
thomas massie
Like, 50 billion dollars at any given time.
Some guy got one of my debt clocks and he called up and he says, this thing isn't working.
hannah claire brimelow
You're like, no, it's more accurate.
thomas massie
I'm like, this is the most accurate debt clock on the planet.
ian crossland
We should get a big one like that clock up there and put it next to the clock, too.
tim pool
Oh, USB-C.
thomas massie
Yes.
He's charging it right now.
tim pool
That's great resolution.
What is that?
thomas massie
It's 320 by 170 is the screen on this, but I also brought you a stand.
So I made out a copper roof flashing from my house.
I had some roof flashing left over.
tim pool
All right.
thomas massie
And you just, like, I'll show you here on my deck clock.
You just clip it to that and you can set it there.
phil labonte
That's great.
thomas massie
I guarantee you I haven't put any spyware in it.
tim pool
Well, I'm not going to plug it into my computer.
ian crossland
Defaulting on the interest would be unethical.
Is that correct?
thomas massie
Yeah, do the short.
unidentified
Yeah, you got it.
thomas massie
And then it'll just sit there on your desk.
unidentified
Look at that!
thomas massie
And you can be depressed all day.
tim pool
How long does the battery last?
thomas massie
I've got three brightness levels.
On the dimmest level it'll last eight hours, but when you put it on Adam Schiff in the elevator with me level, because I turn it up super bright, it'll only last about three hours at the Adam Schiff blinding level.
hannah claire brimelow
But it's got to make a point when it's doing that.
unidentified
Yes, and I love getting stuck in an elevator.
tim pool
I asked you why are the Republicans so bad at everything.
Why is it that, you know, Bob Menendez can be indicted more than once, be found with, what did he have, he had gold bars, is that what it was?
phil labonte
Actually, gold bars with Egyptian markings on them, from the Egyptian government, likely.
tim pool
And immediately it's like, well, hold on, you know, we can't expel the guy, we gotta wait.
And then George Santos has a bunch of accusations.
phil labonte
For being hilarious.
tim pool
And charges and fair, but not convicted of anything.
And he's like, throw him out.
We have no time for this guy.
thomas massie
It's a crying shame.
He's the only, you know, we've had all these resolutions of censure and impeachment.
And the only person we've managed to run out of office is one of our own.
It's ridiculous.
And now we've got a small majority because of it.
tim pool
For what reason did these Republicans vote to expel George Santos?
thomas massie
So the New York delegation did it to their own.
They brought this Resolution to throw him out of Congress on their own member because they thought he was weighing them down and he might cost them their re-election.
So they took out one New Yorker to save four.
tim pool
But why did all the other Republicans join in?
Not all the other, but what, 100?
Was it 104 or 105?
hannah claire brimelow
Enough of them.
thomas massie
I can't rationalize this for them.
I didn't vote for that to get rid of him.
I mean, it's just one of the stupidest things we've ever done.
hannah claire brimelow
What was the conversation like?
When this was happening in the hallways, were people like, no, I think it'd be good if he left?
Or were people trying to avoid eye contact and not say what they were going to do?
thomas massie
They got mixed messages from our leadership.
And then when it was too late, our leadership decided they wanted to keep him.
phil labonte
That was McCarthy, right?
thomas massie
No.
phil labonte
Johnson?
thomas massie
Yeah.
And so people had already went out and said things about getting rid of George Santos before our leadership said what they, you know, don't do that.
And so people got locked into that vote.
And then by the time they realized, no, this is stupid, they were already locked in its statements in the media.
And You know, I sat down next to Santos right before the vote happened, and I said, because, I mean, he's still a human being, right?
And I said, look... A weird one, but you know, that's okay.
He's funny.
hannah claire brimelow
Yeah.
thomas massie
He's very personable, and frankly, he had a very conservative voting record.
phil labonte
If we understand correctly, he had one of the better voting records for conservatives in Congress.
thomas massie
And especially for New York.
And I sat down next to him.
I said, listen, I don't know what you did before you got here.
That's none of my business.
That's between you and your voters and a court of law.
I said, but all of my interactions with you show me that you're a decent, competent, capable man and you're going to go on to do good things, I think.
So don't get depressed today.
Because, you know, I was worried about, can you imagine, you're that guy, and you rose to that level, and then you just get kicked out one day, what do you do the next day?
I was worried he might hurt himself.
hannah claire brimelow
Can you turn down the brightness on your deck clock to make sure there's no other reasons to be depressed?
thomas massie
He actually loved my deck clock.
tim pool
Are you friends with any of the guys who voted to out him?
thomas massie
Friends, can we define, you know, this is is, what is is?
unidentified
Mike Johnson voted no.
thomas massie
He voted not to evict him, but he didn't sort of get out in front of this and stop it before it happened.
tim pool
So Andy Barr, you know him?
thomas massie
I do.
tim pool
I hope he loses.
How about Ken Buck?
Oh, I really hope he loses.
Dan Crenshaw.
I hope he loses.
thomas massie
You're naming people who voted to throw him out.
tim pool
And I will stress this too.
I love making this point because people will message me all the time being like, Tim, if you're mean to these people they won't come on your show.
And I'm like, oh boy.
I will make a video where I name every single member of Congress, the Republicans, because Democrats I get.
I'm going to give a special shout-out to the Democrats.
Robert C. Scott and Nakama Williams, Virginia and Georgia, voted no!
unidentified
What do they have in their closet?
tim pool
Maybe they're saying something like, look, I don't like Sanders at all, we don't care for him, but this is a bad precedent.
I've got no idea.
thomas massie
They voted no.
That's a good point.
It is a horrible precedent.
As you pointed out, he was indicted for some stuff, but he wasn't convicted.
tim pool
So now you're gonna get... I mean, we've lowered the bar so low that... My best case argument for compromise is, if someone is charged with a crime, at most what we do is, they'll be given a bail opportunity, and if no bail, they go to jail until their trial is resolved.
And that means innocent people spend time behind bars.
I am not a fan of that.
It's a difficult position to navigate, but I would err towards we should give people bond.
I would prefer house arrest.
It'd alleviate the prison systems, and then innocent people don't suffer.
Still, there's a challenge, right?
So if they came and said, okay, we're not gonna expel him, but we're gonna suspend his committees or something until the resolution of these criminal indictments, I'd say...
I don't like it, but I get it.
You know, he's been charged with a crime, same for Menendez or whatever.
Instead, they were like, nah, we're gonna remove the guy.
So, you know, the rage within me, um, you know what it is?
It's just, I'm so sick of the incompetence, disorganization, and failure to do anything,
that I really just want to see every single incumbent save, like, 15 people.
There's only a couple Democrats that I'd say, okay, you know, they can get reelected.
I don't like them, but they're allowed to disagree.
Like, um, I can't even remember the guy's name.
Uh, who's the guy that we like who's a Democrat?
He's in California.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
phil labonte
California?
tim pool
Yep, yep, yep, California.
I can't remember his name.
I'll find it in a second.
But there's only like a small handful of Republicans I'd say should stay and each and every one of them gotta get voted out.
We gotta do something because, I mean, if the issue with Santos is that they're waiting for leadership to figure out what is the principled thing to do or the long-term benefit and they don't know, that's bad leadership.
thomas massie
Listen, let me tell you what the bar is on the Democrat side.
There was a federal judge who took a bribe And on the day that the person was supposed to testify against him, the guy decided not to testify.
But it was so obvious that this federal judge took the bribe that Congress impeached him.
And the vote wasn't even close.
It was like all but two or three senators.
It was almost the entire House.
His name's Alcee Hastings.
What does he do?
He turns around and runs for Congress.
He gets elected and served for over a decade.
I think he served, you know, for nearly 20 years.
I've overlapped with him.
And every, you know, you try to be nice.
Every time you're talking to him, you're like, you're the guy who got impeached by this very body for taking a bribe as a federal judge.
And now you're here and you keep getting reelected.
hannah claire brimelow
He's like, hey guys, what's up?
Happy to be here with you.
ian crossland
Was he convicted after the impeachment?
thomas massie
In the Senate, the Senate convicted.
So the House impeached, the Senate convicted.
He didn't do any jail time or anything.
ian crossland
And there's no disqualification to run for Congress being convicted of taking a bribe as a federal judge?
thomas massie
You could be impeached and then turn around and run for Congress.
tim pool
So it was Ro Khanna.
We often find there are news stories where we're like, okay, I like that, okay.
thomas massie
Yes, Ro is a decent guy and he's good on privacy, First Amendment, war, anti-war.
tim pool
However, he did vote to oust Santos, so I don't know if I can forgive that.
You know, he's gotta go.
You gotta vote them all out.
In fact, I mean, I gotta be honest.
Like, if they're a Democrat, you should vote them out.
That's the obvious thing.
So I don't know if that needs to be said.
I can respect and like that he's done some certain things.
And even with that being said, Ilhan Omar's had, you know, Broken Clock is right twice a day, Rashida Tlaib as well, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she's the one who started the whole January 6th was an inside job thing.
And so I have tremendous respect for her coming out, Standing up on camera and saying, police officers were helping the J6ers.
And I'm like, I'm glad you said that.
hannah claire brimelow
Yes, welcome to our team.
thomas massie
Yeah.
ian crossland
The thing about voting them out and expecting it to get better, I think is that, and sometimes that can happen, but a lot of people are driven by emotion.
Maybe more now than normally.
Maybe they're heightened because of the mass media manipulation.
tim pool
You're right.
But if there is any member of Congress who has the engineering and scientific know-how to create a cloning machine and then clone himself and then take over Congress, it would be- We were talking before the show.
phil labonte
435 Thomas Massie.
ian crossland
We were talking about a direct representative democracy in that you would, the people would be voting.
So for the George Santos expulsion, it would be like this 750,000 people would vote yes or no.
And then whatever the majority is would go to their smart contract, yes or no.
And so there'd be the people voting through proxy for these decisions instead of like this little cabal of like 200 people that are all, they all know each other and have emotions.
tim pool
Hold on.
Come on.
If you, if you put it up to a public vote, Santos is out.
ian crossland
I don't think so.
I don't think so, because I didn't even know who he was before that.
tim pool
I mean, what would likely happen is 3% of the population would show up to vote on it, and they would all be activists.
That you're not going to mobilize conservatives for a special election.
It doesn't happen.
ian crossland
You could.
We could start doing that.
Because there are activists in Congress.
tim pool
We talked about this.
This came up before the show started.
And Ian has mentioned this before about the people voting on bills and stuff.
And I pointed out This would create a bias towards people without jobs because they have more access, they have more time to actually go out and participate in these kinds of votes where people with jobs would be like, I'm working today, I can't do it.
ian crossland
You can let them do it online.
That was my vision, is that it happens online.
hannah claire brimelow
Can I just ask, when you're in Congress and the party is split over an issue, like, you voted against, I think, H.R.
unidentified
2.
hannah claire brimelow
It was one of the immigration bills that came through this year and there were, like, things to end birthright or stuff like that.
Like, what is the culture that you guys have?
Because that was pretty unpopular, but you obviously have your own system of values that you were voting for.
thomas massie
So the problem...
With HR 2, it had E-Verify in it.
tim pool
So what is HR 2?
thomas massie
It's a landmark immigration bill, Republicans, you know, anything HR less than 10 is a big deal.
I used to have a rule, I never vote for HR less than 10.
Because it's like some messaging bill or the lobbyists had paid to get an HR that was a single digit.
When I found out, if I was the very first person on the very first minute, the very first day of Congress, and I introduced a bill and it was HR 11, I was like, how did they do that?
Well, I'm not voting for anything less than 10.
But it's changed.
We've got some good bills.
Every part of HR 2 was great except for E-Verify.
hannah claire brimelow
And your objection to E-Verify is?
thomas massie
Oh my gosh.
It's just another layer of government to track you.
It will not be used to end illegal immigration.
Some states have it.
It's basically just raised the price of a fake ID.
And in the meantime, people think, oh, this gets applied to illegal aliens.
No, it's applied to every American who tries to get a job.
You are going to get e-verified.
Now, remember what they did with OSHA.
They use every government program they have to implement this communist future dystopia.
They were going to use OSHA.
First, OSHA was saying an employer can't force an employee to get a vaccine, but then OSHA flipped and said every company of a certain size, we're going to use this bureaucracy to enforce the vaccine mandate.
E-Verify would become V-Verify.
So you would have to get a vaccine to get employed, and they would have the most efficient way to keep you from getting a job, which is called E-Verify.
hannah claire brimelow
So when you voted against it, I mean, how did your Republican colleagues respond to this?
Because this idea that, like, there are always going to be people who vote against bills that we feel strongly about and we have to understand their justification.
I mean, I don't know that I would always want every representative to vote exactly the same on every bill.
That seems like sort of the nature of the party.
thomas massie
There was something very swampy that happened because I wasn't the only person opposed to E-Verify.
So what they did is they gave a carve-out so that E-Verify wouldn't apply to ag workers.
hannah claire brimelow
Which is kind of the problem.
unidentified
Wow.
tim pool
Yeah, that's funny.
phil labonte
Everything is so stupid.
thomas massie
Isn't it?
And so then all the people who were with me trying to get E-Verify out of an otherwise great bill, they gave up and they got the thing they wanted, which is free, you know, the ag part of it.
And the unions were okay with it because it still applied to anybody that was in a union that, you know, that would threaten a union job.
You know, ag workers aren't unionized.
So anyways, it was really swampy the way they did this carve out after the bill had come out of committee.
But nobody was mad at me, because honestly, they knew I was doing it on principle.
And also, I think a lot of them knew I was right, but they weren't going to take that stand.
tim pool
You know, and I'm thinking about, you know, as I asked earlier, like, why can't the Republicans get anything done?
And I envision these fiery speeches that, you know, you have given or I've seen like Rand Paul give, and it's like they fall on deaf ears very often because, you know, people just don't care.
And then part of me thinks that there is no solution.
And so I immediately just imagined, like, what would I do if I was in Congress?
And I'll tell you what I'd do.
I would show up on the first day with two gallons of whole milk and I would dump it on the floor and then I would tell them to expel me and I'd leave.
Because I don't know that there is anything else you can do or anything you can do at all.
ian crossland
Well, so support my move for the direct Republic.
If you don't think this is getting done, we need something new.
tim pool
I disagree with your idea as well.
I don't think that's a solution either.
thomas massie
Let me tell you why Republicans are horrible on the budget and spending.
So right now you would think, you know, with the debt and accelerating and Everything in such a bad condition right now that Republicans would get serious about spending, but here's the problem.
We could limit the growth of government, we could even influence policy by putting riders on the budget, but there are about 40 Republicans who they will slit their own wrists before they allow us not to spend more money on the military.
Like their whole goal is to increase military spending.
tim pool
Well, I imagine a lot of these guys come from military districts, where a lot of the funding is from, say, a military base or some kind of contracting job.
thomas massie
I would say so, but I don't know.
tim pool
I'm not justifying it, I'm saying they're going to be like, look, if we don't get the funding, this company shuts down, my district loses jobs.
thomas massie
Yeah, I don't know how they get to where they get to, but they get there, and they will not accept any budget that doesn't spend another additional $50 billion this year on the military than it spent last year.
Which means, if there's some deal to cut everything 1%, there's no way in hell they'll go for it.
tim pool
Have you considered being evil to get what you want?
unidentified
Abandoning your principles and just taking out a Machiavellian life.
ian crossland
What level of evil?
thomas massie
I mean, I'm a reasonable guy.
tim pool
How come when the Republicans win the House, and we know the omnibus is coming, you don't just take a single sheet of paper that says, on this date, as you've done, the Department of Education will cease, and just slide it right in the middle of that 5,000 tall stack of paper on that I did something like that.
thomas massie
Let me tell you what I did this summer, and a lot of people didn't pay attention.
They're panicking in Washington D.C.
because of this.
phil labonte
I love the way this sounds already.
Let's go!
thomas massie
Okay, this summer they were so desperate to get the debt limit raised and I was on the rules committee.
I said, if you put in a provision that says, if we're still doing CRs by April 30th, Everything gets cut 1%.
Put that in the law.
Get Joe Biden to sign it.
Get Chuck Schumer to sign off on it.
tim pool
And they did?
thomas massie
They did.
It's in the law and on April 30th, if they do a CR, by the way, this is the biggest leverage the Speaker has right now.
He could just, I know everybody hates CRs.
I've never voted for a CR.
tim pool
And that is a continuing resolution.
thomas massie
Yeah, it's just keep the government funded at last year's levels.
phil labonte
Yeah.
thomas massie
It's just a cut, copy, paste.
Take that whole spreadsheet from last year and put it in this year.
Okay.
And they've been doing that.
They've done, what, three or four CRs to get to where we are right now because the spending was due on October 1st of last year.
But if they go past April 30th, the Massey provision cuts everything 1%.
And Joe Biden signed it into law.
tim pool
Did they not notice or what was it?
hannah claire brimelow
He's a big fan of Thomas Massey.
He always has been.
thomas massie
Back in July.
You know, next year was so far away, they just figured we'll figure out some other way to screw the American public when we get to that bridge.
tim pool
So how about you say then in 10 years, you know, on December 31st, 2034, the Department of Education will cease operations.
You know, it's 10 years later.
You can always change it, right?
thomas massie
Oh, by the way, I forced a vote.
I think a lot of people miss this.
You know, Jimmy Carter set up the Department of Education in 1979.
It was re-election ploy.
phil labonte
It was a re-election ploy?
thomas massie
Yes.
Can you imagine that?
And it didn't work, but we got stuck with the Department of Education.
Reagan campaigned on getting rid of it.
Other people campaigned on getting rid of it.
Nobody's ever had a vote on it, but I was able to force a vote on whether we should get rid of the Department of Education this summer.
You should go look up this one too.
This is a good litmus test.
And here's what it was.
It was like H.R.
5?
I mean, one of these H.R.s.
I don't remember what the bill was, but it was one of the 10 signature bills that Kevin McCarthy wanted to pass.
He had campaigned on it.
He said, we're going to force every school to publish their curriculum and every library, local library at a school, to put out the list of library books.
And I said, you know what?
That's a great idea.
Every state should pass that law, but we have no business doing that at the federal level.
Like, what authority?
By the way, I do have the bill to get rid of the Department of Education, and there's only one tool that the federal government has to enforce what they wanted to do, and that was the Department of Education.
It was H.R.
phil labonte
5, yes!
thomas massie
Thank you for looking this up.
H.R.
5, Parents' Bill of Rights Act.
Okay, sounds great!
And I told the speaker, There's no way I could vote for that bill because you are giving more power to, now the kind of power I would like and you might like, but ultimately you're giving more power for the federal government via the Department of Education to tell states and local school boards what to do.
I have a problem with this.
And so McCarthy said, is there any way?
Is there any way you could vote for this?
And I thought for about a second, I said, there's one way I could vote for it.
He said, what's that?
I said, you let me insert an amendment vote on whether this department should even exist at all.
For the first time since Jimmy Carter, you let me have a vote on the floor of the House on whether to eliminate the Department of Education or not.
And he said, I'll do it.
tim pool
Well, I can see why you liked McCarthy then.
thomas massie
Well, you could deal with him, right?
In that moment, he was reasonable.
He said, what do you need?
I said, I need a vote on eliminating the Department of Education.
We got 160, roughly, votes from Republicans to end the Federal Department of Education.
phil labonte
Wow.
thomas massie
And Kevin McCarthy himself voted to end the Federal Department of Education.
tim pool
Wow, that's not bad.
So I imagine you're a chess player, right?
thomas massie
Not really.
tim pool
Not really?
You play Connect Four?
thomas massie
I have played that, yes.
tim pool
Alright, so you know how like in Connect Four, what you're really trying to do is create
a circumstance in which no matter what move your opponent makes, it allows you to connect
four?
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it's like if they try and block you here, then you go here.
Can you do that with legislation, right?
So what I mean is instead of just coming out right with a bill and saying the Department
of Education will cease or like the Federal Reserve will be audited.
What you do is, you put pieces of it in various places that all start triggering one at a time, and then eventually, some, like, member of Congress will be wearing, like, an Indiana Jones hat, running through, piecing together all the bills, like, My God!
Stick them together and it's like, this abolishes the Federal Reserve!
ian crossland
I think you can do that.
And that would be like an emergent phenomenon of intelligence taking over a government.
tim pool
This is what you must do.
So none of the bills can outright say something like, the Department of Education will cease.
It has to be something like, in a circumstance of X, Y, and Z, funding from the Department of Education will be reallocated to other areas, including military, whatever.
phil labonte
Anywhere.
tim pool
And then what happens is, piece by piece, things keep happening until eventually the DOE is just crippled and evaporates.
thomas massie
Well, I mean, that's one of the reasons I got on the Rules Committee.
If you want to peel back the layers of Congress and how the American people gets the football pulled out in front of them, like Lucy taking the football from Charlie Brown, you need to look at how the sausage is made.
Every bill, after it comes out of its committee, before it goes to the floor of the House, goes through the Rules Committee.
And we make new rules every week.
Every week we make a new set of rules that we think will make stuff work that week better than last week.
And mostly it's suspending our own rules.
We say, well, you can't make a motion to make us read the bill.
No, we're going to suspend that motion.
And so we suspend like 100 different motions, but we also decide which amendments can be allowed on a bill.
hannah claire brimelow
It reminds me of when you play made-up games with small children and they just change the rules every five seconds.
ian crossland
Yes, that's the rules committee.
thomas massie
Yes, that's the rules committee.
Every week, we make a different rule for every bill.
hannah claire brimelow
But when you don't get the result you want, they're like, no, we changed the rules.
This isn't how it's supposed to go.
thomas massie
And the first thing they tell freshmen when you get there, if you're in the majority, is they say, never vote against the rule vote.
There's two votes on every bill.
There's the vote on the rules for the bill, and then there's the vote on the bill.
And they tell freshmen, never vote against the rule.
This is the speaker doing his will, setting up the conditions of debate and all the good process stuff.
And it has nothing to do with policy.
But then what they do is they snooker these members of Congress because they put policy in the rules.
unidentified
Yeah.
thomas massie
And there's something, the most evil form of this that I've found that exists in the Rules Committee is a self-executing amendment.
Okay, you want to know what a self-executing amendment is?
hannah claire brimelow
Of course, with that title!
thomas massie
It's an amendment that passes itself.
ian crossland
Oh, how nice!
hannah claire brimelow
Like self-checkout.
ian crossland
Yes.
hannah claire brimelow
Doesn't matter.
thomas massie
So let's say a bill comes out of committee.
And the chairman didn't want to deal with something, and the bill's going to come to the floor, but the bill needs changed in some way.
People don't want to vote on changing the bill, so they sneak a self-executing amendment in the Rules Committee on the bill, so that when you vote for this rules resolution that you've been trained since your freshman orientation, it's just a procedural vote.
You are actually voting for a rule that automatically passes an amendment and could change the whole nature of the bill.
ian crossland
That sounds unethical.
thomas massie
I would think so, because there's no way in hell the American public can follow that vote.
Everybody can go home and say, I didn't vote for that.
I voted for some procedural thing.
hannah claire brimelow
Some plausible deniability.
thomas massie
But the American people would not even think to blame them for that happening.
Most members of Congress don't know about self-executing amendments.
ian crossland
Is there one example?
Good!
hannah claire brimelow
So glad we all know the rules to this game!
ian crossland
Is there a specific one you can think of off the top of your head that's been recent?
A self-executing amendment?
thomas massie
Okay, so they did two in this Congress, and then I finally said, you're not doing any more, because I'm on the Rules Committee.
And I said, I will never again allow you to do this.
And they could override me, but when I blow the whistle and then go try and explain myself.
So there are two examples they did.
One was on E-Verify.
I got screwed on E-Verify with the self-executing amendment.
The bill, H.R.
2, had E-Verify in it, and these ag congressmen were upset, and so they didn't want E-Verify, but they got bought off by this idea of self-executing amendment, and nobody got their hands dirty.
Oh, we don't know how E-Verify doesn't apply to ag anymore.
The bill magically somehow did that on its own.
And then the other was an ethanol thing.
We were rolling back a bunch of Biden tax credits or energy things, a bunch of Green New Deal stuff, OK?
But what it turns out that it was going to affect ethanol in some of these states like Iowa.
And so they couldn't get the bill passed, but they also did not want Republicans voting for ethanol handouts on the floor of the House.
But they didn't have enough votes to pass this bill with the thing that punished ethanol or took out the ethanol subsidies.
So they made a self-executing amendment to fix it magically and nobody... I'm telling you, I'm like one of 12 people who understands that that's how that got done.
hannah claire brimelow
So you said they train you about this when you're a freshman.
Who is that?
Who is they though?
Who's training you on this?
Like, why don't most congressmen know about this?
That seems like a very flawed logic, but it's used that commonly.
Or it's good design, let's say.
thomas massie
The whole point is... Well, I mean, no, it's designed that way.
Why would they... You just have to... After getting screwed... Hit the top button again one more time.
tim pool
I did.
thomas massie
Okay.
tim pool
It said that it was the year 2106.
Welcome to the future, Tim.
hannah claire brimelow
You got a special edition.
thomas massie
You made it.
unidentified
Yeah.
thomas massie
You've got to, um, put your own Wi-Fi in there?
tim pool
I did.
unidentified
Oh.
tim pool
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, oh, okay.
thomas massie
Let's see if it gets it right this time.
tim pool
He's, he's playing- So the internet time, is that normal?
Yeah.
63, 63 trillion.
hannah claire brimelow
The internet has its own time?
tim pool
We'll figure it out, we'll figure it out.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
tim pool
Oh, it's doing- It's cause I noticed that mine was a trillion behind yours, so I updated the Wi-Fi.
thomas massie
Right.
tim pool
But now it's, now it's wrong.
thomas massie
Cause that's been in the box for like six months, and the rate has gone up more.
tim pool
So it needs to also get the right... So, the Democrats are really good at being evil, right?
Like, they lie about stuff all the time, while accusing the Republicans of lying about stuff.
The Democrats are organized, they march in lockstep with each other.
I think the January 6th committee is a really good example of, like, the malice.
Jamie Raskin, for instance, included a video of me reporting, reading a news article, rather dryly as I do, and acting as though I was encouraging people to go to January 6th.
There were people on video, and this guy's 20 minutes from here, Raskin.
We have people who work here who are, like, he's their rep.
And so he plays the video, he's like, here's people encouraging January 6th, and there's some guy saying, like, it's gonna be a red wedding, storm the gates, or whatever.
And then it's me going, Fox News reports Donald Trump says there's going to be a rally.
Then it cuts to someone else, cuts to me, and I'm like...
Now I've had people say, like, oh, you know, I saw the thing where you were included.
I mean, it's been good, I would actually say.
I had a friend hit me up, I hadn't talked to in 10 years, say, I saw you on the news.
It was kind of weird because it was all these people calling for January 6th, but then it was like you reading news or something.
And I'm like, yeah, it was kind of weird.
Why would they do that?
But outside of that, you've got, you know, Adam Schiff publishing the private phone records of an American journalist.
You've got him lying about proof of Russiagate.
I mean, they just lie all the time.
For political power.
And the Republicans do nothing.
And maybe it's because there's no such thing as a Republican Party.
There's the Democratic Party, which is a cult of evil people marching in lockstep.
And then the Republicans, which is various factions and disparate groups of people with varying degrees of corruption amongst them.
thomas massie
I would like to see us have a January 6th committee.
tim pool
How about a May 29th committee?
This is what I don't get.
Maybe it's because I grew up in, you know, like a Democrat, in Chicago, among Democrats and activists and organizers, and I worked for non-profits.
The first thing I'd have done, when they announced January 6th, I'd say, yes, we would also have the May 29th insurrection committee, when thousands of far-left extremists firebombed the White House, St.
John's Church, injuring 100-plus federal officers, forcing the president into a bunker, disrupting official proceedings.
So you do January 6th, we'll do May 29th.
Instead, nobody even knows what May 29th is.
I've had Republicans come in here, in Congress, and I ask them, why nothing on May 29th?
And they go, what's that?
And I'm like, now why do you know about January 6th, but not when the President was forced into an emergency bunker as the White House grounds were firebombed?
They literally threw firebombs at the White House grounds.
unidentified
St.
tim pool
John's Church across the street was set on fire.
A guard post at the White House was set on fire.
thomas massie
Here's what both of those events, those dates have in common.
Without question, the government was involved, was inciting in both of those instances.
phil labonte
This is incredibly frustrating to hear, right?
Like, we're sitting here, we've got a congressman who's been there for over a decade in Congress, right?
So it's not like he doesn't understand how Congress works or what's going on.
He's generally considered one of the most constitutionally sound congresspeople, and he's literally telling us that we have lost control of our government.
ian crossland
Wait, is that true?
tim pool
Which part?
ian crossland
That we've literally lost control, the people have lost control of the government?
thomas massie
The feedback is not working, right?
For control to work, there has to be a feedback loop.
And in that sense, yes, the feedback loop is broken.
Because there's either not enough transparency in what's happening in Washington, D.C.
phil labonte
for people to understand how to fix it through the ballot box, I think that's intentional with the Department of Education, which is something we harp on here all the time.
thomas massie
There's obfuscation.
It's like I was saying, the self-executing rules stuff.
Like, the best thing that I can do as one person in there is to help provide transparency.
So, you know, this summer we forced over 700 votes.
Like, being on the Rules Committee, Chip Roy and Ralph Norman and I forced over 700 recorded votes this summer.
phil labonte
That means they would not have been recorded votes if it wasn't for the fact that they made a stink.
Congress's whole point is to vote on legislation, and they're doing their best to not vote on legislation because then they have to be responsible, or they could be held responsible by their constituents.
hannah claire brimelow
Nobody wants to work anymore, Phil, come on!
tim pool
Why can't you just get the vote on the DOE again?
Why not?
thomas massie
Department of Education?
Well, I could, but I got 160 votes.
Now the voters need to go figure out who are the 60 or 70 Republicans who voted to perpetuate federal control of your child's education.
tim pool
Would you be able to get basically any reasonable bill to a floor vote?
thomas massie
No.
tim pool
I was able to do that as an amendment to a spending bill.
But the DOE is something you could be able to get to a vote.
thomas massie
I was able to do that as an amendment to a spending bill.
tim pool
So couldn't Mike Johnson just bring it up or has to go to the committee?
He could, but he won't.
unidentified
Well, it would fail.
ian crossland
Like we need public pressure.
That's the way.
I get nervous about mob mentality, but the internet video is so powerful.
Like, you can raise hundreds of thousands of millions of people to go call their congressman at a certain time on a certain day tomorrow.
We could tell everyone at two o'clock tomorrow to call Congress, and then we could remind them tomorrow, do it tomorrow again, and get what we want.
But it's like, then that's like the mob, and I don't... I'm very concerned about creating a mob Okay, we're missing something here, right?
tim pool
Marjorie Taylor Greene came here and she said that basically what happens for a lot of bills is there's like 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats and they just go, meh, meh, no one actually votes and then she's like forcing a vote on it, right?
So there are bills that get passed without a vote.
thomas massie
Not as much anymore because when, you know, I started forcing votes and then three or four years ago a group of people like Marjorie started showing up and started forcing the votes.
tim pool
Oh, I didn't have to.
Wouldn't it be better off if there was no vote then?
thomas massie
No vote, what do you mean?
tim pool
You could get a bill passed with no one voting on it?
thomas massie
They tried to do that on March 27th, the CARES Act, when I drove to Washington, D.C.
and forced all of Congress to vote on a $2 trillion bill.
hannah claire brimelow
Thanks for that, that was a good one.
tim pool
This is what I want to understand.
Why is it that with the Omnibus, they can squeeze in all this psychotic garbage, they can pass bills without a vote, but when it comes to the things that are reasonable that would be good for this country, it's like, we just can't do it.
thomas massie
Well, now you're talking about FISA this week, which we got to the brink of having a vote.
How much do you want to know?
ian crossland
I want to know all.
tim pool
Let's start at the beginning.
What is FISA?
thomas massie
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act passed in 2008, ostensibly to spy on foreigners.
And to give the authority CIA, NSA, FBI, you go go spy on foreigners.
They started using this program to spy on Americans.
Now, the way they do it, they say it's legal.
And it may be legal, but it's not constitutional.
I know that's some cognitive dissonance.
But the laws, the legal framework they're using, they say, okay, we're collecting, we're targeting foreigners.
And that could be Angela Merkel.
It doesn't have to be Osama bin Laden.
Of course our CIA is spying on every head of state and every one of their chief deputies.
So if you are targeting those foreigners, then you collect a lot of information.
And there's Americans in that information, like your emails may be in there because it went through the same server, okay, that Angela Merkel's chief deputy stuff went through.
So now your stuff's in there.
So now they say they don't, the FBI and all these organizations, they claim they don't need a warrant to go into that database, which is enormous, and search for Temple's emails.
And they don't even need probable cause.
And so this has become known over the years that this is going on.
First of all, Congress had to find out it is happening.
And then the next people had to start caring.
And we got to that point this week.
And then we had to get a chairman of a committee who wasn't compromised.
Which is hard to do, to care about this.
And that's Jim Jordan, who chairs the Judiciary Committee, and then advance a bill in his committee.
So we put a FISA reform bill through his committee.
I'm on Judiciary Committee too, which says you've got to get a warrant.
Okay?
And it has some other good reforms in there.
Right now the government buys information about you that they would otherwise need a warrant for But because they can buy it, they say they don't need a warrant to get it.
So for instance, everybody's phone knows that you're speeding.
tim pool
Yep.
thomas massie
Okay.
And the phone company could sell that to the government.
tim pool
Imagine how much money they'd make if they bought that data and sent everybody a ticket.
unidentified
Correct.
thomas massie
But they sell stuff, not that kind of material, but very similar kind of stuff.
And the government should need to get a warrant to buy that.
Anyways, so we put all that in this bill.
This week, we got it to the Rules Committee.
There was an argument over jurisdiction, the Intel Committee, which meets in secret, and they're responsible for overseeing CIA, NSA, all those departments.
They claim jurisdiction on this bill.
Judiciary claim jurisdiction on the bill.
The reality is there's joint jurisdiction.
But if it's domestic spying, that is definitely the jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee.
Well, the Intel Committee said, we're going to blow this whole thing up if you don't agree to our terms of engagement on the floor of the House.
And we said, OK, what are those?
And they said, we were going to take out the warrant provision.
We're going to take out the loopholes around the warrant of buying the day.
We're going to sanitize your bill and make it more like a clean reauthorization of what exists.
But you can have votes on the floor to put your stuff back in.
Those are the terms of engagement we agreed to.
So they dumbed down the judiciary bill.
We brought it to the Rules Committee.
We were having a debate there.
On which amendments to allow, like putting the warrant back in, we were going to have that vote on the floor and we started winning.
We were winning.
We were going to win on the floor of the House and they cancelled the committee while I was there.
unidentified
Who was they though?
thomas massie
The speaker, but he was pressured by the Intel Committee.
They've basically gone rogue.
unidentified
So he's a coward.
thomas massie
They've gone rogue.
phil labonte
Yeah, so literally the Intelligence Committee, which is prevented specifically by this specific amendment, is literally derailing Congress so that way they are not limited by the thing that exists currently to limit them.
thomas massie
Correct.
tim pool
These people are evil.
unidentified
This happened yesterday?
thomas massie
Yeah, yesterday.
Like, in real time.
I'm in the committee listening to Jim Jordan testify on the bill, and we're in the rules committee.
We're getting ready to hear from the intel committee, and they refuse to show up.
They refused to show up and engage on a battlefield that they set.
They set the rules of engagement.
We didn't like them, but we said, OK, as long as we can have a fight and force everybody to take this vote on the floor of the House on whether you need a warrant or not.
And they agreed to that.
tim pool
And then they... So it's Mike Johnson's fault?
thomas massie
I don't want to say his fault completely.
Like, if he had forged forward and tried to get it to the floor, they were going to take down the rule.
Now that means they were going to try to keep the bill from coming to the floor because they were going to vote against the rules for the bill.
Which is, again, one of those procedural things that nobody gets blamed for, right?
Maybe they should.
Maybe they should, but if you go home and say, oh, I didn't vote against the warrant provision, I voted against some procedural thing.
And they get away with it.
So they threaten to do that.
Normally, you can't do that.
The Intel Committee is called a select committee.
What that means is, There's no meritocracy, there's no steering committee that decides who goes on Intel Committee.
The Speaker of the House puts them on that committee.
ian crossland
So, if the Intel Committee refuses to play ball, they refuse to be involved, then the Speaker should remove them from the committee and put people on that are willing to go?
unidentified
Correct.
thomas massie
But, okay, so let's say the Speaker does that to 20 Republican members of the Intel Committee, including the Chairman of the Intel Committee.
What if two of them just get ticked and quit Congress?
Then there's fear that you're gonna... Then we're not in the majority anymore.
This is the weird situation that we're in.
Anybody can form a gang, and so this week the gang was the Intel Committee.
Last week it was the four New Yorkers who took out Santos, who started that.
They formed a gang and demanded to have a vote on what's called the state and local tax deduction, where you can take your state and local taxes off of your federal taxes, which at first sounds like a good idea.
Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but it actually benefits blue states like California and New York who are taxing the crap out of their citizens.
And what it means is somebody in New York who makes, let's say, $200,000 a year won't have to pay as much for our military as somebody in Kentucky who makes $200,000 a year because the person in New York pays less federal tax because their state has taxed the crap out of them.
So the New Yorkers were trying to make a political win, so they took the whole Republican conference hostage.
A couple weeks ago and got a vote on that, which they lost.
tim pool
I think the reality is there's no Republican majority.
There is a handful of Republicans that are actually Democrats.
thomas massie
We are minnows.
Majority in name only.
tim pool
Yes.
ian crossland
That's so it's like if they were to resign, I feel like having that's like, it's just like... Maybe it's more worse than having them be rogue.
tim pool
Like, Ken Buck may as well be a Democrat.
He voted to keep Mayorkas.
unidentified
Why?
tim pool
Because he's retiring?
thomas massie
I don't know why he decided to do that.
tim pool
He decided- he's retiring, right?
hannah claire brimelow
He's retiring.
tim pool
Yeah, so he decided he would stick a knife in the back of the younger generation of this country on his way out.
unidentified
But- but wait, let's be fair.
thomas massie
We eventually got Mayorkas impeached this week, and what's it gonna accomplish?
tim pool
Nothing.
thomas massie
Nothing.
So Kinbex stopped nothing from happening for- nothing that would accomplish anything.
He stopped nothing that would accomplish anything from happening Honestly, I honestly don't care.
ian crossland
When you guys say nothing, is that because when it goes to the Senate it's just... They won't even bring it up.
tim pool
Yeah, right.
phil labonte
There will be no trial, there will be no... There needs to be a significant majority that the Republicans can actually do something with, that's not paper thin, because right now they're like, with the MAGA kind of, you know, America First conservatives, and then the, what would probably be called the Establishment conservatives, they'll harpoon each other's ideas.
You know, and I mean, I obviously have my own personal opinions on what should be done.
I'm a small government kind of guy and, you know, I want it to be as small as we can make it and still function the way that we need to.
But like, there's going to be significant pushback from not just the Democrats, but anything that actually shrinks the government is probably going to get pushback from the more establishment Republicans.
The fiscal conservatives, and again, I've been following Thomas Massie's career since he got into Congress, and these guys have been pushing back against the same Leviathan forever.
They've always, you know, Thomas Massie catches a lot of hell because he votes no on foreign aid stuff, and he's trying to be fiscally conservative.
And it's just an uphill battle and then the government itself doesn't want to be regulated.
So it's a freaking nightmare.
thomas massie
Think of it this way.
If Congress is a video game you get to restart every two years.
I keep making it to a higher level every time I play.
phil labonte
Thank God.
thomas massie
There you go.
Now I'm in the inner chamber.
I'm in the, you know...
ian crossland
The sanctum?
The belly?
tim pool
You're in the belly?
ian crossland
No, he's at the, uh... You're retrieving the wishbone from the throat of the, uh... Yeah, the boss.
thomas massie
I meant the sub-boss.
tim pool
Sub-boss, yeah.
Of the whale?
What's the boss before the mini-boss?
ian crossland
The mini-boss?
tim pool
Yeah.
ian crossland
You're fighting, like, the third mini-boss now?
thomas massie
Fighting the mini-boss in the rules committee.
So, you know, so I'll put another quarter in, okay, that shows you how old I am.
tim pool
Yeah, it's 50 cents nowadays.
phil labonte
I'm right there with you.
ian crossland
I feel like we need more people that are willing to dispense with political parties and do what's right for the Constitution and the country.
Like, it was George Washington's main thing, stay away from political parties, they're bad news.
phil labonte
Opposite of what they want, though.
The Constitution exists as a limiting machine.
Like, the point is it's a no machine.
It tells the federal government, no, you can't do this, no, you can't do that, no, you can't do this, no, you can't do that.
The federal government fucking hates that shit.
Like, they want to be able to do stuff.
Now we've got the federal government, you know, busy trying to get into, you know, bathrooms and whether or not you use the right pronouns and should that be something the government talks about.
These are things the government has no business being involved in.
ian crossland
I understand in modern technology with internet and the ability for countries to spy on us, we do need an adaptation to our constitution.
We can't just sit here with our thumbs up our butts and be like, yo, just mail me your vote later.
phil labonte
There's an amendment process that's fair enough, totally fine if you want that, if you believe that 100%, and maybe you're right, but there's a process and nobody wants to do the process because it's hard, and nobody wants to do anything hard.
ian crossland
I want to.
phil labonte
Thank you, I appreciate that.
thomas massie
Our constitution was last amended in 1992.
Like, it can be done.
phil labonte
Yeah.
ian crossland
What was that last amendment?
thomas massie
It was to keep congressmen from voting to change their own pay without an intervening election.
The interesting thing is that 27th Amendment was proposed by the Founding Fathers and it just never got ratified until 1992.
How come?
It's actually the basis of my lawsuit against Nancy Pelosi, which I'll find out Friday or Monday whether the Supreme Court's going to take up.
ian crossland
What's the suit?
thomas massie
So during COVID, I refused to wear a mask.
I played along for a while because I thought, okay, I got to represent my constituents and if I can't speak and I don't But eventually Pelosi said, they said, when will you get rid of the mask mandate?
And she said, when everybody gets vaccinated.
And I said, whoa, I ain't letting this morph from a mask mandate to a vaccine mandate.
So I led 10 members of Congress to the floor of the House during a C-SPAN footage and showed none of us were wearing masks.
And so then I got fined by Nancy Pelosi, and the only way she could get that money from me was to reduce my salary.
tim pool
And she did?
thomas massie
And she did.
Wow.
But the 27th Amendment, which doesn't have a lot of case law because it wasn't ratified until 1992, says you can't change a member's salary without an intervening election.
phil labonte
Wow!
tim pool
Interesting.
ian crossland
Not just raise salaries, you can't change salaries.
phil labonte
Correct.
thomas massie
And the founders debated this on why you couldn't, they were, the reason our, for instance, our salaries paid out of the Treasury and not by the states in the House of Representatives is the founders were worried that the states might withhold our salary and that we should be accountable to the people as House of Representatives, not to the states.
unidentified
Interesting.
tim pool
The 27th Amendment, no law varying the compensation for the services of senators and representatives, shall take effect until an election for representatives shall have intervened.
ian crossland
And that means that they would have to have, like, you'd have to run against someone that wanted to run against you in order for your salary to be changed after that election?
Correct.
thomas massie
And most people think it was just to increase it, but Founding Fathers said, if you can control a person's sustenance, you can bend their will.
tim pool
Nancy Pelosi is an evil human being.
ian crossland
Would it have been that they'd have an election with just you?
If she just wanted to change your salary, would it just be you would have to have an election, or all of Congress would be up for election?
thomas massie
They did vote for a rule, which counts as a law in the House of Representatives.
They voted for a rule on how to fine us, how to reduce our salary.
So if she had put that in before the election, She could implement that rule and probably reduce my salary individually using that rule, but that rule was not in place for fining people for not wearing a mask.
tim pool
So she's in violation of the 27th, and when do you say you're going to hear from her?
thomas massie
So this will not surprise you.
The only venue we can take it up in is DC.
Okay, so we lost at the district level and the appeals level, and now we're asking for the Supreme Court to take it up.
We'll probably find out Friday or Monday.
tim pool
What was the opinion of the lower courts that justified changing your pay without an election?
thomas massie
Oh, they said that there's another part of the Constitution that says each house shall make its own rules.
And that we can make whatever rules we want.
tim pool
So the 27th Amendment doesn't exist.
thomas massie
And then that's right.
unidentified
Yeah.
thomas massie
And there's another thing in the Constitution.
People don't like this.
I didn't find out about it until I got elected.
We have like super First Amendment rights as members of Congress.
tim pool
Wait, what is it?
thomas massie
Speech or debate clause.
tim pool
Speech or debate clause.
ian crossland
What's that?
thomas massie
It says we can't be held accountable for anything we say in the House or do in the House of Representatives.
tim pool
That means he can go to the floor of Congress and claim that Ian Crosland kicks puppies for a living, makes money off it, and you can't do anything about it.
ian crossland
Really?
thomas massie
And it sounds like a bad thing at first, but if you go look at what the King was doing to the Parliament, he would just bring up these little things and just tie you down.
There'd be a Fonny Willis, there'd be ten of them for every member of Congress trying to litigate every word we say or everything we put on X. But now you get people like, you know, Jamie Raskin or Adam Schiff who will Correct, and that's the price you pay.
They can lie.
They're allowed to lie.
I'm sorry.
ian crossland
They're allowed to slander or... Yes.
tim pool
And defame and lie more.
thomas massie
Okay, but here's, just getting back to the court case... But only on the floor.
ian crossland
Sorry to interrupt.
Only on the floor?
thomas massie
No, it's been ruled to also cover our staff and committees, and it may... Oh, for God's sake!
tim pool
Have you considered being evil?
hannah claire brimelow
Thomas Massie goes Machiavellian.
thomas massie
I love it.
Let me finish out this.
So the judges in the circuit court, the district court, they said two things.
You get to make your own rules and Nancy Pelosi is covered by the speech or debate clause because this was an official activity that she undertook as a member of Congress.
And to your point, Tim, the 27th Amendment, if they don't take up our case and reverse this, the 27th Amendment's not enforceable.
We should just go give ourselves a pay raise because it's an official action covered by the Speech or Debate Clause.
ian crossland
Saying what she wants to say is different than changing your salary.
What's Speech or Debate about salary here?
thomas massie
Well, she had to basically like utter the words to make the bill come into existence, so it's covered.
There's a lot of case law that says that's covered.
tim pool
I, you know, maybe we just need some Republicans to start accusing Democrats of egregious activities.
ian crossland
Well, I don't want to repeal the speech and debate clause because that would be bad for senators to get down.
phil labonte
Lie about them as much as you can, and if you can lie and throw them in jail, lie and throw them in jail.
ian crossland
We have a republic that works with an ethical society.
phil labonte
So I have a theory that liberalism has a blind spot and liberalism is vulnerable to authoritarian ideologies because authoritarian ideologies don't value things like honesty, integrity, truth.
They are just about power.
So because of that, you can't be liberal in opposition to illiberal forces.
So let's just bring the boot down on them.
tim pool
Well, this is the Karl Popper thing.
phil labonte
It kind of is, yeah.
tim pool
If those who are tolerant will tolerate intolerance, intolerance will shut down tolerance.
phil labonte
Partially, I think so.
And you're right because the way that it plays out, that is the function.
But from my perspective, the point that I'm trying to make is it does boil down to a difference of like entire philosophy of the way that the world works and how government should be approached and stuff.
And we talk about the rules and we talk about all of these protections that are in the Constitution, etc.
But if the people, as in the population, don't want representatives that care about those things, and apparently, if you look at the people that make up Congress, they don't want those things, these things don't matter to the population, what do you do?
thomas massie
Thank you, Phil.
I've quit blaming my colleagues for anything.
I blame the people that voted for them.
Like, you know, I don't get mad at AOC.
I don't get mad at AOC.
She's a duly elected person representing her district.
And, you know, actually, I get more upset at some of my Republican colleagues who are pretending to be something they aren't.
ian crossland
Yes.
thomas massie
And this is the problem with term limits.
Now, we had a term limit vote in judiciary, and I voted for it.
But here's the problem.
If you throw out all the clowns, who elects the new clowns?
ian crossland
Same people.
thomas massie
Same people pick the new clowns, they pick the old clowns.
tim pool
Here's what we need.
We need someone to run as a Democrat, and then once they get elected, just say things like, you know, Adam Schiff soiled himself.
Tweet it out like, this is shocking.
And what you do is, there's clever things you do.
So, there was this guy who made this video, where he bought the Apple Vision Pro, right?
He's driving in his car, wearing it, and doing the weird little things with his fingers, And he literally was driving his car while wearing a headset.
He then, in the video, it shows cops behind him with their lights on, and he's looking, and he's making it seem like he got arrested, when in fact what he did was, they drove until they saw police, pulled over, and made it seem.
So what you do is, when Adam Schiff, at any point, gets up and like runs out of the room, you film it, and then you can tweet, Adam Schiff soiled himself.
I still smell it.
It smells bad.
People are shocked.
I can't believe this happened.
And then you have a video of him running out, which corroborates it, even though it's a lie.
And he can't do anything about it because of the speech and debate clause.
ian crossland
But they can censure you and then George Santos you, remove you.
Probably that's what would happen.
tim pool
He's a goofball.
ian crossland
He doesn't belong.
tim pool
But then you just say, look, I think I understand why I was expelled.
It was a deep embarrassment to the entirety of the House that a man of this tenure had soiled himself in public.
And it was actually requested of us that we not make a big deal of it.
But I think the American people have a right to know.
And for that, I've paid the price.
ian crossland
Is there like a sense of desperation in Congress, which is raising tensions?
Like if the economy was extremely good right now, would things be much more fluid?
thomas massie
I don't know if there's desperation, but I do think it's gotten more animated in Congress since I've been there.
Not always for the better.
I mean, I know people want us to fight, but some of the fights just don't make a lot of sense.
ian crossland
You said last time, I think you were on the show, you're talking to this like emotional people have become like emotionally overridden in that reason or logic or something.
thomas massie
Well, look, I mean, that's the default setting.
tim pool
I made the point about taking two full gallons of whole milk and dumping them on the floor.
thomas massie
Yeah.
tim pool
And it's because my attitude right now is There is a tidal wave washing everything away, and all we're talking about doing is swimming against it.
So, when you're saying there's certain fights that don't, it doesn't make sense to fight those fights, and then there are some where it's like, we gotta get this one done, for every 100 negative things, there's like, what, two or three good things, and it's just, we're rolling downhill.
At a certain point, I'm like, just chuck the gallon of milk on the floor and just make it smell bad or whatever, and then I'm out.
It does nothing, but what else could be done?
thomas massie
Here's the one fight we should be having, and if everybody cared about winning, they'd be focused on it, and it's the funding fight.
Because the only bill that has to pass every year is the spending bill.
Everything else can be paused, suspended.
It's superfluous.
Yeah, it's superfluous.
We control the House, we don't control the Senate, we don't control the White House, but we do know the Senate is going to pass the spending bill, and we do know Joe Biden's going to sign it.
So literally 99% of our effort, if we're just trying to win a victory instead of be symbolic and preen and virtue signal to our constituents, 99% of our efforts should be on that spending bill.
tim pool
But it does sound like the intelligence agencies will walk into Speaker Johnson's office and they'll have a manila folder they'll place on the desk and slowly open it.
There's a picture of JFK that will slide across the table and he'll say, I will do anything you say.
And that's the end of it.
So, at the end of it, if you can't get a speaker who's actually gonna do the job, because they're terrified of... I mean, let's be real!
You could be driving your car in DC and get carjacked!
Whoopsie!
You could be walking from a supermarket in a botched robbery!
You could be like an IT guy who's like, working on an email server, but you're on your way home from work, and then all of a sudden someone tries to rob you and you die, but they never actually take your stuff!
phil labonte
Yeah, is the crime in DC actually a cover for the government using, like, authoritarian thug tactics?
Like, you send people up to beat up people walking around?
Is that why they want the crime to go up?
So that way you can just be like, it's plausible deniability?
hannah claire brimelow
You can't let it get too low.
That'll become suspicious.
tim pool
I remember when Kevin Spacey pushed that journalist in front of a train.
phil labonte
I remember that.
ian crossland
Oh yeah, that's predictive programming.
That's crap.
That show's terrible.
tim pool
The show's actually really good.
I thought it was horrible.
unidentified
Kevin Spacey had a fake accent from the South.
phil labonte
It was real bad.
thomas massie
You know, I started watching that show and then there was the House of Cards.
Yeah, House of Cards.
One of the early episodes, a congressman does cocaine in a trailer with this college friend to get some dirt on another college guy.
And I thought, that's just ridiculous.
And I had just gotten elected to Congress.
hannah claire brimelow
I was going to say, were you in Congress yet?
thomas massie
I had just gotten elected, that's why I was watching the show.
And then I was like, that's stupid, I'm going to quit watching.
Two weeks later, my colleague gets arrested for buying cocaine at Union Station.
Trey Radle, from Florida, a congressman.
I like Trey Radle, but if there was anything he was guilty of, it was lack of imagination.
You can't imagine that they're waiting at Union Station to arrest congressmen who are buying cocaine.
Can you get somebody to go buy it for you?
tim pool
If you're a member of Congress and you're caught buying drugs, I'd imagine the first thing they'd do is say, you're going to vote the way we want you to vote from now on.
thomas massie
And probably Trey said not.
And that's why I got in trouble.
So then I had to go back and watch House of Cards.
And every detail, it's like they took the lamps out of my office.
And the chair rail was the same height.
I went over and measured it.
I'm like, this looked just like my office.
It looked just like the Majority Whip's office.
Everything was so real.
hannah claire brimelow
You were expecting certain people to pass you in the hallway?
thomas massie
I was getting PTSD on the weekends watching this, but then I realized there's one element of the whole House of Cards that got wrong that is nothing like Congress.
I couldn't watch it again once I saw this.
In House of Cards, there's a guy with a plan.
There is nobody in Congress who's had a plan that's lasted more than two weeks.
At least, you know, what was his name?
Kevin Spacey played Frank Underwood.
If there was really a Frank Underwood as an engineer, I would be under his tutelage probably.
unidentified
Yeah, here's the guy with structure.
tim pool
I think the piecemeal bills, putting ten pieces of one bill scattered about in a bunch of other bills that get passed, that activate upon, you know, certain conditions.
thomas massie
Like epoxy.
unidentified
That's right.
tim pool
Exactly.
thomas massie
And then when they put them together in an omnibus, they just bond.
ian crossland
Exactly.
tim pool
I was thinking more like Exodia from Yu-Gi-Oh.
If anybody understands that right, Dane is probably cheering right now.
ian crossland
If it, like a plan, like retrofitting our economy to a hydrogen fuel-based hybrid gasoline-hydrogen fuel economy, would you, if someone had that plan and they talked about it a lot in Congress, inspired other congressmen, stood up and talked about it in speeches, gave numbers, patterns, like that kind of thing, are you going to run?
I don't know if I would win.
I don't even know if my value would be served there if I should just come in and talk.
tim pool
Talk?
unidentified
Like just go in and hang out and explain things?
thomas massie
You guys are the envy of every congressman, okay?
Seriously.
Because 90% of what we do is messaging and trying to convince people that they should call our colleagues and get them to do stuff, right?
And you control all of that.
You are way more powerful here with a microphone on this show than you could ever imagine being in the House of Representatives.
tim pool
But look at AOC.
She has both.
thomas massie
Yes, she plays, this is what, she plays the outside game.
You can, it's hard to do both, but she is in all 435 districts, to some degree, influencing.
I mean, what freshman ever got the name of their bill mentioned every day in the House of Representatives?
hannah claire brimelow
Well, have you considered doing your skincare routine on Instagram Live while you take the train to Congress?
tim pool
We're gonna go to Super Chats.
thomas massie
I have considered mixing margaritas, because I drink medical margaritas.
tim pool
We're gonna go to Super Chats.
If you haven't already, would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends, and head over to TimCast.com.
Click join us, because the members-only uncensored show will be a whole lot of fun.
We're gonna talk a bit more about Congress, and there's certainly more questions to be had, but for now we will read your Super Chats.
Alright, Zachary McCoy says, first baby!
That's right.
You were the first Super Jet.
Congratulations.
hannah claire brimelow
You get a margarita from Thomas Massey.
thomas massie
Medical margarita.
I'm not a recreational drinker.
tim pool
Says people cheering for Biden's nonsense is not new.
Ask them what President Obama would say in his speeches, and they have no clue because it's all platitude.
Basically, when Biden says something like, Batacaf care, people cheer for it.
And you're asking, like, why are they cheering?
What did he say?
hannah claire brimelow
I don't know, but... But the elite said to applaud, and they were like, we got it.
tim pool
Joshua Flower says, Tim, I asked you a clip of Biden's gaffe from last night.
The cheering started before the gaffe and quieted down shortly after.
Uh, I think it was the Batacaf care one that I was at.
I think I mixed up.
I think it was Batacaf care where they cheered and it's like, what?
And then, so that was my bad.
So, uh, I confused the clips and, uh, but there is cheering before he says, Trina, not a shabbit of pressure.
Alright, let's grab some more.
Vincent.thunderwizard.com says, Hey Tim and crew, my dog Coco passed away on Tuesday after a long life of 16 years.
I'm grieving and miss her very much.
Love the show and keep doing what you're doing.
Much love, Vince.
Sorry to hear it, Vince.
hannah claire brimelow
Yeah, to Coco, the kingdom of heaven, you know.
tim pool
We got Mr. Bocas.
He's sleeping curled up right here, right next to me.
And, uh, you know, his hair is not growing back.
So he gets, uh, when he goes to the vet, they shave his arms for the IVs.
And, uh, the, he's, I think he's, he's, he's, we've kept him alive a very long time.
So his story is he was a street cat.
He's got bad kidneys and a bad heart.
And because of his heart, we can't give him the kidney medicine because the kidneys can't give him the heart medicine.
We could have got him a kidney transplant, but his heart is bad.
And for whatever reason.
But Ian got him stem cells.
And so that seems to have done something.
And he's been alive a lot longer than he was supposed to have.
So we got him hopped up on all kinds of medication.
He was supposed to be dead over a year ago.
thomas massie
Try medical margaritas.
unidentified
Medical margaritas?
hannah claire brimelow
So what is a medical margarita?
I just have to know right now.
thomas massie
It's very strong and it's an exact dose.
hannah claire brimelow
Okay, but why?
tim pool
Alright, let's read some more Super Chats.
ian crossland
Dosage is everything.
tim pool
All right, let's go!
Coley Locke's Production says, hey Tim, you said yesterday you wanted a World War II historian for the Culture War.
If I may make a suggestion, you should invite Tick History, T-I-K History.
phil labonte
I like Tick, he's good.
tim pool
And talk about it, he's a great World War II historian and very knowledgeable about the politics.
That would be great!
We've got a, tomorrow we have a California secessionist and a Civil War historian coming on the Culture War.
So that's over at Tenet Media on YouTube.
That'll be 10 a.m.
live, you don't want to miss it.
I'm really excited for this one, it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Um, it's very easy to get a Civil War historian in this area, because we're like 10 miles from Antietam.
We're 40 minutes from Gettysburg.
hannah claire brimelow
I was gonna say, you like throw a rock and hit 12 of them.
tim pool
Yeah, right.
You know, so when we were like, we would need a Civil War historian, they're all running here in Civil War outfits, like me!
hannah claire brimelow
They have their thesis out, I am the best one!
tim pool
I mean, you go to Gettysburg.
Have you guys ever, have you been there?
You check out?
Like, there's, there's, we just drove down a road and we saw Confederate costumes and reenactors, and I'm like, I bet any one of them.
You can talk your ear off about all of it.
hannah claire brimelow
Probably any of the people on the tours, too.
Like, if you're touring all these battlefields, you know a fair amount yourself.
It's really funny.
tim pool
I mean, I'm sure there's some dude who just lives there and works at a Starbucks and he's like, I know everything about the Civil War.
Alright, let's grab some more Super Chats.
Where we at?
thomas massie
What's interesting about that is West Virginia did secede and made it stick.
Like people say it could never work.
tim pool
You know?
thomas massie
A state seceded from another state and it stuck.
tim pool
I'm torn on it because it was dirty, but I'm glad it happened.
So the general idea is when all of the Virginia men who lived in the area were off fighting, the people who were not fighting voted to secede.
So that's kind of messed up.
Then after the war ended, Virginia was like, yo, this is not legit, and the Supreme Court was like, it's totally fine, and they get to stay.
And now West Virginia is like, second most, second most based.
Wyoming, I guess, is considered the most based.
But that's because they're actual people who know how to survive.
West Virginia's got a lot of mountain people, so they know what's up.
But West Virginia is best Virginia, so.
All right, Barely a Millennial says, Rep Massey, how do you prepare yourself to go into the lion's den every day?
Is it really so difficult to not be corrupted?
Also, shout out to my rep, Victoria Spartz.
Nice to see my state getting vocal.
thomas massie
Okay, first of all, I drink raw milk every morning.
I'll bring it from Kentucky.
tim pool
It's yours too, right?
thomas massie
No, but I can't say where it comes from.
I have beef cattle.
I don't have milk cows.
And Victoria Sparks is awesome.
unidentified
Cool.
tim pool
You have chickens.
You have the Cluck Capacitor.
thomas massie
I have the Cluck's Capacitor, which is an invention of mine, which is basically a giant Roomba with several, a bunch of chickens in it that moves in the yard and takes the chickens with it.
They're all on fresh grass.
It's got a 4,000 volt perimeter that it carries with it.
It collects the rainwater as it goes.
unidentified
Wow.
thomas massie
Fertilizes.
tim pool
And they drink the rainwater, is that it?
Yep.
Wow.
You know, that... That's amazing.
You know, that may be impressive to some, but we have a chicken city, and we're gonna be building Neo Chicken City.
So first, we had the small chicken coop, double layer fencing in this box, and there was a little thing I would lift up to open the door in the morning so the chickens could come out.
They would go to bed at night.
And, uh, there was actually one point a bear came and tried ripping its way into the chicken coop to kill.
This was our original seven chickens.
Well, when we laid concrete and got rid of that patch of grassy area and tore down Chicken City, we had to build a new Chicken City.
And so now we have this massive structure with- it actually has a house with an air conditioning and a TV and everything.
I haven't been in there in a year.
And, uh, large quantities of chickens.
However, we're moving in less than a month.
And so that means, what are you gonna do?
New, new Chicken City?
We can't do that.
thomas massie
You need a Clux Capacitor.
tim pool
Neo Chicken City.
Yeah.
Neo Chicken City.
So it's gonna be Tokyo Cyberpunk.
And we're gonna put neon everywhere and make it look futuristic.
And I'm gonna get little sunglasses for the chickens.
phil labonte
Little razor blades, like neon colors.
That'd be sick.
thomas massie
Yeah.
Is it underground?
tim pool
No, no.
Oh, that's a good idea.
thomas massie
How's it gonna survive the EMP?
tim pool
I don't know if this here's an idea we had the other day.
We've had for a long time, actually.
So in Fremont in Seattle, there is a statue of Lenin, which is still for sale.
phil labonte
I believe 250,000 was the last quote.
tim pool
But when was that, like 20 years ago?
phil labonte
No, no, someone said on Twitter that they saw it within the past like six months.
tim pool
Let's get it!
So I want to buy the Statue of Lenin.
I want to lay it down, partially buried, and put the chicken's roosting bar across over it so that every day we have a live camera and you see Lenin's face getting spattered with chicken shit.
And I think it would be one of the greatest accomplishments of my life, and I think the audience of this show would greatly appreciate it.
I think that Chicken City could become one of the most popular shows among conservatives and libertarians, and just anyone who hates communism in general, and they can just know that no matter how bad your day gets, you can always go to chickencitylive.com and watch a chicken take a dump on Lenin's face.
That's good, right?
We gotta buy it!
It's a business that writes its own business plan!
And then we could sell t-shirts that have, like, Lenin with bird crap on his face, and it's like, he just- I mean, you're rich!
For the rest of your life!
There you go.
Maybe- I'm not kidding, either.
We're trying- we're gonna figure out how to buy this thing.
thomas massie
If you just made a replica of the statue, would that be enough?
Do you need to put out that capital to start crapping on Lenin's face or can you just get started with the replica?
tim pool
So someone built this statue and it's been in Seattle and it's a point of contention.
thomas massie
It has provenance.
tim pool
Yeah, and so to take that from the Seattle Communists and then desecrate it live on camera, it just feels so good.
thomas massie
I'd ask your Civil War expert about that before you start.
tim pool
Well, so here's the thing, right?
Should we spend $250,000 on a statue of Lenin plus shipping, transport, construction?
I think the people who are members at TimCast.com would demand it.
They would say, Tim, I will cease my membership unless you buy this communist statue and desecrate it.
Uh, in all seriousness, I don't think anyone would actually cancel if we didn't, but I think a lot of people would sign up if we did.
And I think, um... I don't- I don't- It's not about the money.
It's about sending a message, you know?
So, you know, I could post a Joker meme and then post the video and say we have done it.
I think we could do it.
I don't think it'd be that difficult.
It would be probably, like, five figures to transport and set up.
We would need to trench a little bit so it's partially, like, I want it partially buried so it looks kind of like post-apocalyptic.
thomas massie
Like Planet of the Apes.
tim pool
Yeah.
thomas massie
Statue of Liberty.
unidentified
Yup.
thomas massie
Yeah.
tim pool
Yeah, and then just put the roosting bar right above it, and so just every day it's just... And you can watch, and it will bring joy to those who have suffered under the hands of communism.
ian crossland
I hope one falls right here, so it looks like he's crying chicken shit.
That's what I hope.
tim pool
Alright, let's go!
Andrew 843 says, Rep Massey, why can't we get a vote on Major Richard Starr Act H.R.
unidentified
1282?
tim pool
Congress said it doesn't have the $9.7 billion for 10 years to pass it, but yet we have $60 billion for Ukraine.
Good question.
phil labonte
It doesn't matter if they have money.
thomas massie
There's so many things that are less than $60 billion that we could do that we say we don't have the money for, but when it comes time to send it to Ukraine, nobody asks how you're going to pay for that.
hannah claire brimelow
Well, we have the money for that.
thomas massie
Yeah, of course.
phil labonte
Voodoo.
thomas massie
Because it all comes back.
Like it's a boomerang.
You know, Biden sent a letter to the House of Representatives recently extolling the virtues of all the military spending.
They don't call it the military industrial complex anymore, they call it the Defense Industrial Base.
So the MIC is now the DIB, if you're keeping up with the terminology, but he listed all the states that would benefit from spending all this money in Ukraine.
tim pool
I just, I want to go back to the Lenin thing.
I just, I'm thinking about if we made our own statue of Lenin and had, it just doesn't punch.
You know what I mean?
thomas massie
I agree.
tim pool
You, so there are communists in Seattle probably love that thing.
I would love to take it from them.
You know what I mean?
Like it would bring me great joy to know that they have lost something.
thomas massie
Is it for sale?
tim pool
It's, it's historically been for sale.
Phil was looking, you know, I guess someone said that it was for sale.
phil labonte
I think I might have a phone number too.
tim pool
Really?
phil labonte
I might, I'm not sure.
tim pool
It must be done.
And no, no, no, hold on.
Someone chatted saying Tim wants you to give him $250,000.
No, no, no, no, no.
I already have $250,000.
I am not going to ask anyone.
I will not do a fundraising drive for this.
I will not do a GoFundMe.
I will not say, if you become a member today, I may do it.
No, no, no, no.
Don't worry.
If you're a member or not, we are working on it.
This is important.
phil labonte
It is!
tim pool
It's important because, ask yourself what matters in this world, right?
If someone came to you and said, I will give you a great castle for which you can live in, I ask myself, well, who will take care of the castle?
Who will clean the latrines?
Who will repair the damage in a storm.
I can't be bothered with this.
Someone comes to me and says perhaps I could give you a million dollar sports car.
And when do I have time to drive that?
I don't drive.
I'm sitting in this box complaining on the internet all day.
It's meaningless.
But what matters to future generations?
What matters is that we take from the communists and we desecrate their sacred images.
phil labonte
I back this.
tim pool
It's immortal.
The car will break.
The castle will fall.
I can go to a casino and gamble it, what does that accomplish?
But desecrating Lenin, it'll be in the history books, the statute.
thomas massie
And I can show it on the floor of the house and be covered by the Speech or Debate Clause.
unidentified
Yes!
tim pool
Here's a live stream of chickens crapping out.
phil labonte
I'm gonna cry, this is so beautiful.
thomas massie
But I would say, can you believe what he's doing?
I just can't believe he's doing this.
tim pool
It's so great.
I mean, make the Democrats praise communism.
Make them do it.
Have a vote on a resolution to denounce communism and see how many are like, I won't do that.
thomas massie
We've actually taken that vote.
tim pool
Oh, okay.
And the Democrats were like, nah, we're cool with it.
thomas massie
Some of them, it splits them down the middle, frankly.
Not kidding.
We had a vote to condemn socialism.
And half the Democrats voted for it and half voted against it.
phil labonte
The ones that voted against it, they are aware that it means, like, you have to give up your property.
You don't have property rights.
And without property rights, like, the economy doesn't go.
tim pool
Guys, the Statue of Lenin in, uh, you know, there's nothing to pull up.
You're just pulling up.
The Statue of Lenin has its own Wikipedia entry.
When we buy this and desecrate it, they will update its Wikipedia entry and the image of it will no longer be this beautiful picture from Seattle.
phil labonte
Remember who's going to do the update?
tim pool
But a toppled Lenin.
phil labonte
Remember who's going to do the update too?
unidentified
Who?
You?
phil labonte
They're going to be commies!
They're going to be Antifa!
They're the ones that update Wikipedia!
tim pool
Oh, I know.
But so right now, if you go to the Wikipedia for Statue of Lenin, it shows just the statue and there's a tree and there's like a walkway and it's in the city.
But, if we take it, and we cover it with chicken shit, that will be the photo they must use.
We gotta do this.
We gotta call a lawyer and be like, facilitate this, make it happen.
BaseJew says, donate this to the Lennon Statue Reclamation Project Act.
And it's a $50 super chat.
It shall be done!
phil labonte
We appreciate you.
tim pool
Um, look, there's no guarantee they sell it to us.
They may say, it's a piece of art, you shouldn't destroy it, put it in a museum.
I actually don't disagree with that entirely.
You know, I'm being kind of a dick when I say let's destroy this thing.
hannah claire brimelow
Maybe you're saying you're doing a new performance art piece.
unidentified
That's true.
hannah claire brimelow
Involving the statue.
Updating the art.
ian crossland
You're just gonna paint it.
phil labonte
Deconstruction, it's deconstruction!
tim pool
Yeah, yeah.
But they might say, no we won't do it.
Or they might say a million dollars.
You know, they might jack the price up, who knows.
hannah claire brimelow
Do you have like a ceiling limit?
How much would you spend on this Lennon statue?
tim pool
I don't know, it's kind of like...
When I'm on my deathbed, people are gonna ask me, like, what did you do with your life that mattered the most?
And the first thing I'm gonna say is the people I care about my life, my family, everything we do is for them, obviously.
But if you're asking me about career and accolades and accomplishment, I don't know what could top taking the Statue of Lenin and having chickens shit all over it.
You know, like, if I was ever to run for office and was, like, in Congress, I'm sorry, Rep Massey, but I would not care at all relative to having chickens shit all over Lennon.
I mean, that's something that can't be bought.
You know what I mean?
Like, we're lucky that we're trying to figure out the opportunity in which to do such a thing.
thomas massie
I think you better use an intermediate buyer.
hannah claire brimelow
Are you willing to help us with this?
Would they sell it to Rep Thomas Massey, do you think?
unidentified
So the other issue now is... She might be able to get a grant for it.
Now, oh, I'm, you know, I gotta be honest, like, there's... Good, yes, let's use government money for this project.
tim pool
No, no, NGOs.
hannah claire brimelow
Oh, sorry, NGO.
tim pool
There's probably a bunch of non, there's a bunch of non-profits that oppose communism, and they're very, very wealthy.
I wouldn't be surprised if I went to them and said, here's the idea, they'd be like, we'll pay half.
Let's make this happen.
That being said, they may be a bit more academic and say, that's kind of crude and we're trying to be very serious and highlighting the terrors of communism.
And I would just be like, I just don't like communists, you know, so we want to do this, but you know, we'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out.
I think we can get it.
All right, Ricky M says, since Donald Trump is gaining popularity among Gen Z, how long until the Dems start shouting, we need to repeal the 26th?
hannah claire brimelow
Any guesses?
ian crossland
I don't know.
26th is, I'm sorry.
tim pool
Which one's 26th?
phil labonte
26th Amendment?
unidentified
Yeah.
phil labonte
I'm not even sure what it is.
tim pool
Is that the, uh, 18-year-old's right to vote?
ian crossland
We should probably all know what all the amendments are.
unidentified
Like, that's an American... Yeah, that's an 18-year-old's right to vote.
tim pool
I mean, I thought I knew, but I was kind of like, I'm going to say the wrong one, aren't I?
So I didn't want to say it.
phil labonte
Look, you can't, you can't, you can't have kids going to war without being able to vote.
Yes, you can.
Well, I mean, I don't feel comfortable saying personally.
tim pool
I disagree.
thomas massie
But they can't buy cigarettes.
They can't buy alcohol.
phil labonte
Fair enough.
tim pool
They can't rent a car.
I do not think voting should be predicated upon just an age.
However, in terms of what you're saying about going to war, I certainly think if you do join, you have the right to vote.
I do not believe simply because you've reached the age of majority, you have a right to vote.
phil labonte
Fair enough.
And also, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, everyone knows that I'm not the biggest democracy lover and the fewer people vote, the better, the happier I am.
thomas massie
I have a bill that's in this zip code.
It's called the Safer Voter Act.
And I tie the voting age to the age you can buy a handgun.
So right now you can't buy a handgun from an FFL because of federal law until you're 21.
tim pool
In Virginia?
Wait, federally?
thomas massie
Federally.
unidentified
What?
thomas massie
Federal law.
phil labonte
Since when?
thomas massie
It's been a long time.
Wow, I didn't know that.
So I call it the Second Amendment for Every Registrable Voter, the Safer Voter Act.
tim pool
Oh, that's a good one.
Well, let's get that one through.
Have you considered putting something in to repeal the NFA?
thomas massie
I think one of my colleagues has already done that.
unidentified
Can you do it again?
tim pool
You don't want to steal his thunder?
thomas massie
We could try to get a vote on that.
I mean, can you sneak- Some value in that.
tim pool
I mean, and how many people in Congress- Oh, I got a bill passed today.
Wait.
hannah claire brimelow
Which one?
unidentified
What?
thomas massie
This is kind of important.
I've forgotten this.
phil labonte
Like, there is a little bright spot.
You mean you got some work done?
hannah claire brimelow
He just came out to hang out today.
thomas massie
In judiciary, I passed a bill out of committee, and I got every Democrat and every Republican to vote for it, and it's a pro-Second Amendment bill.
phil labonte
Yes.
tim pool
What does it do?
thomas massie
So the NICS background check system.
tim pool
Yeah.
thomas massie
Okay.
It's very sloppy.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
thomas massie
There are millions of false denials.
Okay.
Since it's been put in.
phil labonte
Oh, yes.
I saw this and it has to talk.
Go ahead.
unidentified
Yeah.
thomas massie
So millions of false denials and a lot of people give up.
You can appeal it, but if your appeal is denied, now you got to hire a lawyer and spend money.
So it's a bad thing.
They use phonetically similar names and similar birthdays.
They don't even go on exactness, because they kind of want it to be sloppy, because the more people that get denied, the fewer guns there are.
But what I discovered in talking to some people who've studied this, is that's inherently racist.
The system is, if you're a black male, you're three times more likely to get falsely denied purchase of a firearm than a white male.
Here is why.
Within ethnic groups and races, you share similar first names and surnames.
And if you are, because there's so many black males incarcerated, Or have been, and we can talk about over-incarceration, some of that is wrong.
You are more likely, when you go to buy a gun, to share a similar name with somebody who's, if you're a black male, with a black male who has a disqualifying condition, i.e.
a felony.
So the bill that I got passed today in the Judiciary Committee, the House of Representatives says the FBI has to give us all of that data they already collect on the form 4473 and tell us statistically, we don't want individual knowledge of these people by race, ethnicity, country of origin, and sex.
What the denial rates are and what we are going to prove and the FBI is going to give us the data is that this sloppy Knicks background check system has a racial bias in it.
unidentified
Wow.
thomas massie
And I got Democrats to care about that.
Because, you know, they talk about racial bias in AI, image recognition, drug prosecutions, traffic stops.
hannah claire brimelow
Healthcare.
It's everywhere.
thomas massie
So here's one place where it legitimately exists and we're going to get the data.
We're going to show that.
And so the whole result of that, hopefully, is we narrow this down and don't be sloppy.
So we don't deprive not just blacks and Hispanics, but whites from buying guns.
phil labonte
Right on.
tim pool
Let's read this.
Tucson Alorum says, trust me, just buy a bust.
A full-blown statue is pricey.
I looked into this to recreate Chris Farley's in a van down by the river pose at my creek.
Turned out to be cheaper to buy a fat homeless guy with a van to live in still.
Yes, um, I'm not spending $250,000 to buy a statue.
I'm spending $250,000 to take away from communists.
That's it.
All the commies in Seattle and all the leftists will collectively lose their minds.
And you know, I gotta be honest, if they find out that I'm doing this, if we actually make big moves on this, they may get into a bidding war to try and protect their communist statue.
So we'll see.
Sean says, Tim, make a shirt with a toppled Stalin statue and chicks furiously pooping on him and his quote, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
unidentified
That was a Stalin quote?
tim pool
It's sort of funny to me how people are like, I've already looked into this.
I've already considered this idea.
Some of the statues are hard to get a hold of, like all of the Civil War monuments that have been removed.
hannah claire brimelow
of Lenin. Who cares? It's sort of funny to me how people are like, I've already looked into this. I've already
unidentified
considered this idea. We were going to build a statue but it's too much money. Some of the statues are hard to get a
hannah claire brimelow
hold of, like all of the Civil War monuments that have been removed. They make it very, very difficult
unidentified
for people to get their hands on them. This apparently was a Lenin quote.
ian crossland
If you want to make an omelette, you have to be willing to break a few eggs.
tim pool
Cord Wilkinson says, I will pick up the statue and deliver it, no charge.
I really, really want to make this happen.
We have to do trenching, which can cost a little bit, because we need to dig out enough to where we can position it at an angle.
And then, I just think it would be so fantastic to see chickens just jumping up on it and pooping and doing chicken stuff.
But alright, my friends, if you haven't already, would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share this show with your friends, head over to TimCast.com, click join us, become a member, and you can watch the members-only uncensored show coming up in just a few minutes with Rep Tom Massey, and it's gonna be a lot of fun.
We will, usually not so family-friendly, but we hope to see you there.
As a member, if you sign up right now at, well, it may be too late to get your questions in, but for our uncensored shows, if you're a member for at least six months, or you sign up at the $25 per month level, We screen it by time or money to keep the weirdos out and the activists and the people who hate us, but you can submit questions and actually call into the show.
You gotta join the Discord server, hang out with like-minded individuals, and that's where you can participate in the Uncensored show.
So don't forget to also follow the show at TimCastIRL.
You can follow me personally at TimCast.
Rep Massey, do you want to shout anything out?
thomas massie
Debt badge.
I see your debt badge is working over there.
tim pool
Got it working.
ian crossland
What's the debt at right now?
tim pool
$34 trillion.
$34 trillion, $245 billion, $587 million, $300,000.
thomas massie
And that's the freshest debt possible because you put in your Wi-Fi credentials and it's gone to Treasury and it displays the born on date of the debt right there in the upper window so you can see the Treasury published it.
tim pool
There's like a website for it?
unidentified
Yeah.
ian crossland
Yeah, what is it?
What's the website?
People can buy those things?
thomas massie
Oh, debtbadge.com.
unidentified
You can buy them.
Yep.
tim pool
Oh, cool.
Right on.
phil labonte
I actually shared the link, too, on my Twitter account.
tim pool
So, Mr. Bocas can't possibly fit in the box.
He wants to, though.
phil labonte
That's hilarious that he's trying to fit in the box.
tim pool
He's desperately trying to fit in this tiny box.
He is a cat.
ian crossland
He wants in the debt badge.
tim pool
Who's next?
Phil Hennecler?
phil labonte
I am PhilThatRemains on Twix.
I'm PhilThatRemainsOfficial on Instagram.
The band is called All That Remains.
You can follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, you know, the internet.
And also, don't forget, the left lane is for crying.
hannah claire brimelow
I just realized we match today.
phil labonte
We do, don't we?
You have very good taste, you do.
hannah claire brimelow
Thank you.
phil labonte
You really do.
hannah claire brimelow
I'm Hannah-Claire Brimlow.
I'm a writer for scnr.com, that's Scanner News.
You can follow all of our work at TimCastNews on Twitter and Instagram.
I'm really grateful to be a part of that team, and I thank you guys so much for supporting us.
If you want to follow me personally, I'm on Instagram at hannahclaire.b, and I'm on Twitter at hcbrimlow.
ian crossland
I'm Ian Crossland.
Maybe I'll run for Congress, man.
Maybe I'm gonna run for Congress.
This is nuts.
unidentified
I love it.
hannah claire brimelow
This is a soft launch of your campaign right now.
ian crossland
You gotta do something great.
And I feel like, what am I doing with life?
Let's do something great.
Either way, good to see you again, man.
And thanks for enlightening me and all of us that the military-industrial complex is now called the Defense Industrial Base.
thomas massie
They get dibs on all your money.
unidentified
Oh, dib.
Wow.
ian crossland
Yeah, that's... Horrifying.
What a coincidence.
thomas massie
By the way, I have... There's like this Shadow X account that a lot of people don't know about called Massey Ratio.
Hall of shame.
hannah claire brimelow
But you have nothing to do with it?
thomas massie
It's a grey op.
I might know somebody who knows somebody.
A grey op, huh?
phil labonte
Currently following.
thomas massie
You know, like Adam Kinzinger is just a total ass on X, and then we comment, and then they get ratio.
phil labonte
You're pinned tweet, ratios build character.
That's actually from Twitter.
tim pool
Well, we'll get into that in the member show.
We got Serge, president of Bunz.
unidentified
Yo, yeah.
I am Serge.com.
Thanks for watching the show.
Appreciate it.
And paying our salaries, keeping the door open.
So thanks, y'all.
tim pool
We will see you all over at TimCast.com in about a minute.
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