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Nov. 8, 2022 - RFK Jr. The Defender
31:14
Vandana Shiva and Her New Book Terra Viva

Vandana Shiva discusses her work and new book, Terra Viva, in this episode. Click here to purchase Terra Viva

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Well, my guest today is one of my favorite people in the world, Vandana Shiva.
And after writing 20 books, you finally decided to write your autobiography, Terra Viva, which is just the description, the chronicle of this incredible journey that Vandana Shiva has had.
Led Bandana Shiva.
For those of you who don't know her, and she's been on this podcast before, but I've been working with her since almost the beginning of my career.
I think in the 80s, it was the cheapo movement that you had started where I first heard of you, and we started kind of corresponding with each other.
But Vandana's changed the world the way the world thinks about the relationship between food and agriculture and democracy.
She's been one of the principal and, I believe, the most eloquent voices against globalism, globalization, and local sovereignty, local seeds, local democracy, good food, the relationship between the soil and climate.
She is a physicist and a nuclear physicist.
She's got a PhD also in philosophy, although I saw that the title of your thesis, your philosophy PhD, was Hidden Variables and Locality and Quantum Theory, which sounds more like the thesis for a physicist degree.
Well, I went to do a physics PhD with the student of David Bohm, because he didn't have, David Bohm didn't have a scholarship, so he sent me to his student, Jeffrey Poop.
And it just so happens that year at the University of Western Ontario, the Canada Council had attracted the top experts, the mathematicians, the physicists, the philosophers, the logicians, all working on the foundations of quantum theory.
And they were all housed in this department.
So it was because of that particular moment that I went to Western and got this degree.
And Bobby, just a little correction.
The Terra Viva is not my autobiography.
It is, as the subtitle says, my life in a biodiversity of movements, including our work together in Water Keepers and our work together on the GMO question, the glyphosate question.
I remember the last time we met was at the Heirloom Expo.
When you were fighting the case on glyphosate and winning each case.
So anyway, I apologize for calling it an autobiography, but it is the most biographical thing that you've written so far.
And, you know, you talk about some of your early life and really wonderful stories about your dad, who was a forest conservator, and your mother, who was a farmer, and you grew up to be what your nickname is, the Gandhi of Grain.
Right.
But I want to talk to you a little bit.
I want to talk about the book, but I also want to talk about climate and the efforts by the Davos Billionaire Boys Club.
To appropriate the climate issue for their agenda of total social control and how you deal with that as somebody who is a scientist and sees climate as an existential threat and understands the danger that environmentalists ally themselves with these,
with Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates and the people who are trying to use this for their own agenda woke themselves in the mantle of good deeds to advance this agenda of total control.
You know, Kissinger had said, if you control food, you control people.
And at one level...
The current agenda of what Klaus Schwab calls the fourth industrial revolution is the convergence of the failed biotechnology revolution.
You know, they were supposed to control pests and weeds.
Instead, they've given us super pests and cancer, and they haven't been able to control the weeds.
They've created new pests through the GMOBT cotton in India, and they've pushed the farmers into debt.
So they're combining...
The failed biotechnology, the failed chemical.
Rachel Carson warned us for that.
So they're keeping the ecocide that Rachel Carson talked about alive, and they're now joining it with what they call the information age.
But the fascinating thing is they're trying to approve A GMO mustard in India right now.
And all the data that used to be on the websites of the Ministry of Environment, on the bio website of all the patents it has on bar, barnies, bar stuff making sterile seeds, all of that has disappeared.
When I wrote Oneness vs.
1% with my son, he had warned me.
He said, in the next few years, there will be no true scientific information available in the world, except the work you do yourself.
It will all disappear.
And all that will be loaded in the name of science will be propaganda and misinformation.
And interestingly, then, they will silence every true scientist.
Either by making them marginal.
I know they've tried very hard to silence me.
It's just that I don't use any of the expensive platforms and I don't need their dollars and I don't need their patronage.
And for me, what matters is friendships with people of integrity like you.
So what they would really like is no knowledge.
The information age and the age of big data that they're looking at is no one having knowledge at all.
Everyone being manipulated.
Through, on the one hand, surveillance, whether it's surveillance through what you do with your communications or how you spend your money, which is why the whole idea of the digital currencies becomes so important.
It's more a surveillance mechanism and a more social control mechanism.
And then because they actually have the very sad image of, you know, they called our seeds primitive and tried to do genetic engineering.
They called us primitive and colonized us.
Now they're calling the human being primitive, who has to be enhanced by being merged and being, you know, by assessed by algorithms and artificial intelligence.
So we are for sure at a very, very dangerous movement.
And for everything, you know, whether it's the American freedom movement or the Indian freedom movement, Tap every lesson we can on how to stay free in times of total control in every dimension of life.
I see the parallels, and we all see these parallels.
They do the same playbook in every endeavor, in every field that they enter.
But the same things happen in medicines.
The same things happen in vaccines where they, you know, they said, well, here's the enemy is the microbe.
The enemy is nature.
We are going to weaponize ourselves and mount a war against the germs.
And we're the only ones who can save you.
And then they come up with these technologies that the only source of health comes in a syringe.
And you need us to live.
And then as it turns out, it doesn't really work.
But it leads to more and more and more dependence.
And then any of the doctors, any of the scientists who speak out and say, wait a minute, what you said yesterday is different than what you're telling us today.
Those people are in silence.
The science is disappearing.
We're seeing it.
You know, the real studies of science are all being redacted right now.
And some of them are just disappearing.
And the scientists themselves are being disappeared.
It's very Orwellian.
We are very much in a 1984 Orwellian world.
And I think the reason that the patterns are same in every field is because the players are the same in every field.
Big ag and big pharma are the same players.
And big oil.
And big oil because it's all fossil agriculture and it's all fossil pharma.
These are fossil medicines and we just have to go back to the 30s.
Look at Hitler's Germany on the one hand.
Look at everything that was being done by Rockefeller, both in agriculture, you know, through Standard Oil, as well as in Pharma.
What they were doing at that time, criminalizing the true healing systems, the healing systems where the body as a whole is recognized as the body that has to heal and has self-healing property.
That's what Ayurveda is.
That's what all...
Systems that have worked over centuries.
It would be fascinating to see how many...
I mean, look at the statins that they put out.
And they've had to withdraw it all.
They made...
Insects are enemies and have destroyed the insect population.
80% insects are gone.
They call it the insecticodon.
They made plants, the enemies, and created herbicides like glyphosate and glufosinate of Bayer, which is Basta.
Which is what they're trying to push now on India with the GM mustard.
They made bacteria enemies and of course, you know, then antibiotics have worked for a while, but they're pushing it on the factory farms and now you've got antibiotic resistance as the biggest killer.
They're talking about, I don't know, 50 million people to be dying in a few decades because of antibiotic resistance because you made that the only solution.
We've grown up with the wonderful turmeric, which is an antibiotic.
It was even patented.
And we had to fight that biopiracy.
So all of the healing plants of the world were banished from the medical system.
And then this control system called licensing, which then can be withdrawn.
The moment a true healer, a true doctor who takes care of his patients, tells the truth about what's happening to the patient's body, he's suddenly banned.
From practicing medicine.
Because I think this is the thing that we now have an agriculture that's an ecocidal and genocidal agriculture.
And we've got an industrial pharmaceutical system that is also ecocidal.
More people die because of hospitals and medicines now.
And hydrogenesis is established.
And they're the same.
When I was doing oneness versus 1%, I was looking at Monsanto.
Monsanto is now a buyer.
But, you know, Pfizer was the main owner of Monsanto.
So they're totally networked like this.
And then the billionaires and then the regulating agencies, which are not regulating, but actually pushing the false solutions.
And they're doing that with climate now.
The Klaus Schwab group, the billionaire group, the Mr.
Gates group, They are desperate to create new control over people using The climate crisis, but also use it to create new markets, new markets to control the weather, geoengineering, new markets for fake food.
Industrial food has already given us 75% of the public health crisis we face.
If it becomes more industrial and agriculture is merely growing raw materials for the lab food, which is owned by the same companies, That are pushing the bad industrial food today, including the factory farms.
If you look at it, it's the same Nestle's.
It's the same processed food industry that is getting into lab food.
They call it cellular agriculture.
Cellular agriculture means they're now manipulating at the cellular level to create synthetic food.
And you can't cheat on the food system because we are food.
And that's the place where all the narrative of food Improved foods and climate solutions, that's where it'll fall apart.
But the point is they don't care about people being ill.
That's part of their intention.
They don't want healthy people.
They don't want free minds and they don't want healthy people.
And that's the two things we have to defend.
We have to vigorously defend our minds and their freedom.
We have enough ways outside the industrial system To know how to be healthy, how to grow healthy food, and how to take care of each other.
And Anna Shiva's new book is Terra Viva.
Please go on Amazon, get the book, and give it a five-star review.
A woman who's an old, old friend of mine and is in the medical and healthcare industry.
She's one of the big CEOs of one of the biggest healthcare companies in our country and has been very, very skeptical about the questions I've raised about the COVID-19 countermeasures.
And She has now, her husband is now vaccine injured, and her eyes are starting to open.
She sent me a text yesterday saying, how did you know that Gates was such a bad guy before COVID-19?
And my answer to her was I've been watching him do that same play again and again.
And he was it was the Green Revolution, which the Rockefeller Foundation gave us that was supposed to feed the world through chemical agriculture, through monoculture, through pesticides and oil-based fertilizers, which, of course, Rockefellers love that because through pesticides and oil-based fertilizers, which, of course, Rockefellers love that because it came from the Standard And Bill Gates has repeatedly said that he is the legatee.
He is the inheritor.
He is the new embodiment of the Rockefeller Foundation.
He said at one point, we discovered very early on when he was doing population control with his foundation, that everywhere we wanted to be, the Rockefeller had been before.
That's his quote.
And of course, he took over the Green Revolution in Africa, and he persuaded all of these nations, To transfer from subsistence agriculture that had been feeding people on that continent for 20,000 generations, and to switch to GMO corn and Monsanto glyphosate and herbicides and pesticides.
And of course, philantrocapitalism, which he champions, means that He owns Monsanto.
He owns part of Cargill.
He owns part of McDonald's.
He owns Kraft cheese.
He owns Coca-Cola.
And all the people who are now profiting on that cheap corn syrup and lousy food.
And he did the same thing in that.
And of course, we all get unhealthy.
Like you say, it's the same play in every landscape on every battlefield.
Yeah, I mean, the way I look at what Gates is doing is basically new colonization.
If the old colonizers took over land and called the land their property and displaced the indigenous people, what Gates is really doing is continuing the work of Monsanto and trying to own the seed, and he now controls the seed supply of the world.
When the Green Revolution was first introduced, because they knew that it would fail, monocultures are the worst way you can have a forest or a farm.
And the monocultures they were pushing were becoming vulnerable to disease and the corn was wiped out, I remember, in 72 in the United States.
So they started to create, they didn't call them seed banks, they called them gene banks, because for them it was merely to mine the genes.
And they were created by the World Bank through the Consultative Group of International Agriculture two years ago.
And we've written about it in our book on Mr. Gates, Philanthropy Capitalism.
The two years ago, in effect, if you looked at each of these banks, the main contributor was Mr. Gates.
But he wasn't just giving to save the seed.
He was now creating a new way to colonize the seed and destroy every law that has been created for sovereignty of communities over their biodiversity and seed and the sovereignty of countries.
This is the basis of the Convention on Biological Diversity.
It requires that you take permission of a community when you take their plants.
It requires that you take a permission of a government when you take plants.
So what he's done is he's created this whole digital mapping of the genome, which means you can have one little seed and you can make a genome map and then you can own all of the seeds of that rice or all of the seeds of wheat.
So on the one hand, he is doing the digital sequencing And he's admitted it.
It's the way to bypass the laws, the seed laws of FAO, the biodiversity laws of the Convention on Biological Diversity.
But worse, he is also the main funder of gene editing, you know, the...
Yeah, the CRISPR techniques.
And it's already known to be causing huge, unpredictable impacts.
Remember, they were doing the cow or the bull, which would be hornless, and they were gene editing it to be without horns, and then it was full of bacteria.
And they had to finish off that experiment.
I think it was one of the California universities.
It's cheaper to ship them if they don't have horns.
Yeah, so basically, in effect, he's just looking at what's the new colony I can carve, you know?
Let me just interrupt you for a second so people understand this.
During the 60s, the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, the governments of the world, the United Nations recognized that monocultures were replacing a lot of the heritage seed stocks.
And there was a very, very legitimate concern that the seed stocks that had been developed through thousands of generations for particular climates, for particular water systems, for particular soils would be extinct, and there may be a time when we would need for particular soils would be extinct, and there may be a time when So there was an effort around the world to collect all of the seeds I I think there's 11 big seed banks.
Maybe you would know the number.
There were 25 CG systems.
So there were things created on every continent where all the heritage seeds were collected.
Of course, a program like that is always in need of money.
And so Gates came in with all of his bags of cash and said, I'm going to help you.
And Gates He started giving them money, he fostered the dependents, and then he manipulated to gain control of those seed banks.
And then he sent his guys in to map the genomes of every seed and to patent them, and then to make slight alterations in them so that he could then say, this is a new organism that I have created and I own it.
And then for the rest of time, he owns all the seeds in the world.
You know, that's a big problem.
So we've gone from an effort, a wonderful effort, to preserve the global commons in seed stock to this very sinister, diabolical effort by one man to privatize the commons, to gain control of the entire seed stock of the planet for his own profit and control.
Absolutely.
When I started saving seeds through Navdanya, and we've created 150 community seed banks, I only looked at cotton because of the suicides, because of the monopoly of Monsanto's BT cotton.
And 400,000 suicides since 1995, when Monsanto came into India.
400,000, of which 85%, this is government data, it's by district, it's by state.
So you can map the suicides and the cotton areas.
95% of the cotton is when sent to BT cotton, which is now by BT cotton, which is Mr.
Bill Gates' BT cotton because of the ownership patterns.
And then you have 85% of the suicides in these areas.
Now you can imagine if one country and one region with a monopoly Can create such a devastation?
What will happen when all of the seeds of the world with all of their traits?
And he's a pirate because, you know, he claims to have invented flood tolerance.
Now, flood tolerance, rices are something Indian peasants have evolved along the coast because of the flooding.
Salt-tolerant, flood tolerance.
He gives a grant, calls it an invention.
And again, I've debated with his foundation when they've been on public platforms.
I said, show me the parent.
What was the seed that you used?
They will never answer that and just give, oh, you know, we really respect your work with women, or we respect your work with farmers, but they never tell you the source of their piracy.
But we say flood-tolerant and soil-tolerant seeds.
These complex traits cannot be engineered because engineering is with single genes.
That's why they shoot a BT toxin.
They shoot a Roundup Ready toxin.
But they cannot create climate resilient traits, which are complex.
They can't create drought tolerance.
They can't create flood tolerance.
And what they can do is steal the gene and then the whole seed and claim to have created the trait which was created by farmers breeding and by nature.
And that's, you know, they're applying it to every field.
And Microsoft had a patent, you know, just when COVID was, two things he was doing when COVID was striking.
On the one hand, he was launching One Agriculture for the World.
His Gates Ag One is based in Missouri next to Monsanto.
And he was launching this, besides financing vaccines, Gavi, the Global Alliance for Vaccines, but he has another program called GAIN, which could mean profits for him, but the acronym is Global Alliance for Improved Nutrition.
Yeah, that's his food monopoly, his global food monopoly, like it is.
Steppi and Gavi are his global vaccine monopoly.
Gain is his global food monopoly.
And Gates had one, which is, you know, agriculture controlled by Gates for all the food in the world.
And we're going to be eating bugs and oil products, refinery products.
And he's creating through buying up most of the land, the biggest farmland owner of America.
He's actually working out the conditionalities and certification systems for climate that he's going to evolve to police the world with.
And while he continues through net zero to pollute, while he flies around the world with his private jets, he wants to take control of the farmland of the world, not just in America, Through carbon credits, carbon trading, carbon financing, and they worked it all out and they think everyone will accept it.
I think the whole attempt To hijack the climate crisis which is killing people, to dispossess people around the world, indigenous people, small farmers, of their land.
It's going to unify people.
And we have a little role to be able to help unify on the one hand the health movement and the food and agriculture movement, which is the same movement, you know, it's the same movement.
Players creating the crisis.
But also, I think your podcasts and your communication in spite of every attempt to not allow you to talk to the world, I think it's so important at this time to bring people together, to let them see that the problem is one common problem.
Let me make another point about Gates, which you just glossed over a little bit.
He flies in a private jet.
Not only that, He makes private jets, one of his companies.
He is invested in virtually every major oil company, all the coal companies.
He's the biggest owner of the railroads.
So he's deeply embedded in the carbon production, carbon industry.
I've been doing climate work or really pollution work.
That's what I do, pollution work.
I represented fishermen for 30 years trying to stop oil and chemical industry from contaminating the fish and the coal companies.
So I end up fighting carbon a lot.
And I know all the people who are fighting carbon, like NRDC, Sierra Club, etc., Nobody gets any money from Gates.
Gates has never given money for carbon advocacy.
He's never been a climate activist, but this year he published a book painting himself as a climate activist.
But as you say, it's all the billionaire boys club agenda of how do I use climate as a mechanism, as a vehicle for controlling conduct all over the world, the same as he did with vaccines.
How do I use vaccines?
To gain control of government policies and to gain control of humanity on a granular level.
To actually give myself permission to force medical interventions on every human being on the planet against their will and penetrate their bodies.
His agenda is very clear on that.
This is the book you're talking about?
Yes.
And we know that nitrogen fertilizers are fossil fertilizers.
The nitrous oxide are 300 times more damaging than carbon dioxide.
And this is what he's saying.
I love fertilizers.
We should have more fertilizers.
That's what was being said at the time when the Green Revolution was pushed on India.
It was basically a fertilizer revolution.
And it is a big part of the problem, both of climate damage, dead zones in the ocean, and worse, killing the soil.
You know, when I train farmers, I take soil and earthworms and I sprinkle a little urea on it.
And the earthworms start to die and they say, oh my gosh, this is what we are doing.
We can't see it, so we don't know what harm we are doing.
So it is a weapon of war.
You know, after all, in Hitler's Germany, the basic technique was used for making explosives and ammunition.
And then the same technique was used for making synthetic fertilizers.
It is really the time to defend the integrity of our bodies and integrity of our communities and find new ways to not allow Yeah, you know, one of the other things that is happening right now, the same thing is happening with viruses.
So there are all these efforts by the CIA, which started this group called Argus back in 2008, by USAID, and by now the Global Viral Project and many others to inventory all 800 million viruses in the world.
They're gonna inventory, they're gonna gene map them, they're gonna find the ones that have pandemic potential, which are basically ones that you can weaponize, and then they patent them so that when they weaponize them and then they escape, they will own the patent and be able to provide us and then they patent them so that when they weaponize them and then And it's just a pipeline that they're creating, but it's controlling not just seeds, but the real, the basis of life, all of the viruses on the planet.
So they're really, they're creating these new markets.
They're creating new economic assets out of nature.
And that's what you've written.
And the irony of it is, you know, like this GM mustard.
So the soil bacterium has this barnes and basta, and they're together.
One sterilizes, but the other fertilizes.
So they never do harm to the plants.
Now they're taking...
A balanced, regulated process, tearing it apart, making plants sterile.
And, you know, we are walking, my rai viromes, I've said that in my last chapter in Terra Viva, is we are walking viromes.
And anything that declares the virus our enemy will declare a weaponizing of the viruses to basically assault our integrity, our bodily integrity.
Yeah.
And since we managed to depress everybody who's listening to us, can you tell us what you're, because you're always so buoyant and optimistic, what is your, you know, what's the source of hope for everybody?
Well, you know, I save seeds and seeds that are climate resilient.
And when the cyclone hits the farmers, we distribute those seeds after the Orisa cyclone, after the tsunami, truckloads of seeds.
And farmers are able to bounce back and do the agriculture again.
But most importantly, in that little seed, in fact, on my book table is another lovely book.
Of Thoreau, where he says, it's a very beautiful, very powerful quote where he says, though I do not believe that a plant will spring up where no seed has been, I have great faith in the seed.
Convince me that you have a seed there and I am prepared to expect wonders.
Now that little seed will become a plant.
The green leaf will take the carbon dioxide with the sun's energy, give us the food we need and the oxygen we need to breathe.
And the reason I believe in this miracle of life is because the scientific evidence is there.
On our farm, in 20 years, we have built up, not just on our farm, but 200 farms that we help train in organic.
We've built up 100% more organic matter, and the organic matter in the chemical farms has gone down to 14%.
And that means that much more emissions are sitting up there, including the nitrous oxide.
More than that, the data is clear that the more photosynthesis we increase, more photosynthetic biomass and biodiversity we increase, the more we help the planet heal itself.
And we also get food and oxygen in the process.
We can pull down 100% Giga tons of carbon dioxide every year by just doing good farming that cares for the land and grows biodiversity.
That's why I have hope.
And that's why I always say it's when you only look at the number of the increase, you don't look at the pathways of the decrease.
After all, the planet brought the temperature down from 290 degrees to 13 degrees.
That's a big jump.
Between 1990 8% carbon dioxide to 0.03% carbon dioxide.
So we just have to follow nature's path.
We just have to follow her photosynthetic pathways.
And we have to do the right thing.
You know, climate change to me is about forgetting how to live on this beautiful planet.
And we've got to learn again how to live.
Vandana Shiva, thank you very much.
Show us your book so people know what they need to go out and buy.
Vandana Shiva, Teraviva, thank you so much for coming back on.
We love you, Vandana.
Vandana Shiva, thank you so much for your leadership, for your inspiration, and for your commitment to humanity and to human dignity, freedom, and democracy.
Thank you.
Love you, too.
Bye, Bobby.
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