Buckley Carlson details his journey from writing Trump's speeches in late 2015 to expressing deep disillusionment over the administration's handling of January 6th prisoners, the Iran war, and the Epstein cover-up. He critiques Trump for prioritizing personal status over MAGA principles, failing to defend law enforcement during George Floyd protests, and allowing intelligence agencies to silence loyalists. Ultimately, Buckley argues that Trump's betrayal of his base and refusal to utilize executive power against perceived enemies has fractured the movement, suggesting a potential need for the 25th Amendment amidst fears of long-term foreign influence designed to weaken America. [Automatically generated summary]
For at least 10 years now, hating Trump has been the surest possible indication of liberalism.
If you really hate Donald Trump, probably filled with hate for the United States.
You probably hate whites, probably anxious to give kids the COVID vax and castrate boys and put non-binary people on the swim team or whatever.
But there was a pretty much for about a decade, a one-to-one correlation between disliking Donald Trump, hating Donald Trump, Trump derangement syndrome and liberalism, or it's sort of a weird American manifestation.
But now we're in a weird moment, an even stranger moment, where a lot of people who really like Trump are very disappointed in Trump.
In fact, more than disappointed, feel betrayed or enraged, feel like suckers, feel like they've been taken for a ride.
How could I possibly have supported that given what it became?
A lot of people seem to feel that way.
But do a lot of people seem to feel that way?
Do they actually feel that way?
According to polls on CNN, 100% of MAGA voters still support Trump.
Is that real?
Well, it's really hard to know given how fraudulent so much polling is.
So we thought we would speak to the one person we know who sincerely supported Trump from the very beginning, wrote speeches for Trump in 2015, voted for Trump three times, knew people within the Trump White House, worked with the Trump White House, and all along that period, 10 years, supported Trump.
In public, not on television, which is easy, but in his own neighborhood, which was 100% Trump haters.
That person is my brother, it turns out.
Buckley Carlson, Uncle Buck, as he's known to us.
And so we thought we would sit down and ask him Are we imagining this?
Did the guy you supported from 2015 in the face of social sanction like you wouldn't believe, did that guy just betray everything you believe and the reasons you supported him in the first place?
Are we imagining this?
Is it real?
Here's the conversation we had with Uncle Buck.
You were the first person I knew personally who supported Donald Trump.
And I remember thinking later when I thought about it, I was like, you're a lifelong resident, 40 year resident of Washington, D.C., which voted for Trump in 2016 at 4.1%.
So you were in the 4% of district residents who supported Trump.
And you're a WASP, and that's the group that hated Trump most.
How did you wind up supporting Trump in like 2015?
Because he was such a, I didn't know him personally, I know you did, but I knew of him as everybody around us did because he was such a carnival barker of self promotion, gold dip, braggadocio, lying.
I mean, he was a performer and he was the creator of his own story, which On the one hand, it was disgusting because he was a man of obvious faults.
I mean, he was gross and loud and brash and crude and a serial adulterer and all the things that you probably wouldn't want to be and certainly wouldn't want your children to be.
And Trump was very, if not articulate, he had baseline messages that were unassailable and that he repeated with great repetition.
And the things that he espoused and talked about endlessly were things that I believed in and things that most Americans, when they actually took the time, To separate him, separate Trump's policies from Trump the man were super attractive.
And it was such a departure from what we'd seen from every other elected official, especially obviously, it was the end of the Obama years, which were such a disappointment, but also the destruction of weak, whole tested, you know, very well packaged candidates like who's that forgettable Utah senator?
And of course, so Trump talked about actually focusing on America, repairing the problems that this entire class of people had brought upon us, the American citizens.
But you were in that class of people and you literally worked for a polling company, the most famous polling company, and you were in politics and you live in Northwest Washington, D.C.
And like, basically, Trump is calling for the destruction of your world.
I didn't see it that way because I think these people had already destroyed our world and I'd seen it up close.
Personally, not only in the education system, but in the environment around me, we lived in a much dirtier country.
We lived in a country that wouldn't even embrace any of the things that were great about America that I had grown up embracing not just freedom, not just individuality, but cleanliness and Christian principles.
And we had such a wonderful country when I was growing up and it had been transformed.
You could see it in Washington probably better than you could see it even in border states.
The disconnect between what people had voted for, what people wanted, what they continually expressed that they wanted from their Republican leaders.
And they were denied it every time.
And Trump came in and said, look, there, there's an end to that.
This is unacceptable.
We failed over the past 30 years.
I've seen it up close and personal.
Just aside from all of his obvious foibles and his disgusting elements of his personality, he was, it seemed someone who had been steeped.
He built things and, and very few people built things by the time Trump came along.
We were not a manufacturing society at that point.
And even if I didn't like his gilded name on all sorts of properties, he had employed a ton of people.
He had.
Actually, it contributed to the economy.
He had been saying a lot of these financial things.
I wasn't really steeped in the financial world and didn't understand our trade policies.
But when Trump explained how beneficial it was to the rest of the world rather than America, our trade policies, I actually paid attention and read up and realized that he was telling the truth.
And then everything he said about the border, which you could see if you traveled around America, which I certainly did, the degradation of America was obscene.
And the The destruction of things that I had held dear my entire life, and I think most Americans did.
It was Trump represented a return to normalcy.
And then, of course, I was totally enamored of his personal strength and his ability to.
There's no one who's been more attacked than Donald Trump, obviously, over the last decade, but nothing more aggressively than when he first came down that escalator and announced for president.
Like he was attacked by absolutely everybody.
In the world, not just the left, not just the media, but as you said, everybody on the right took him as a joke.
It's like, actually, we're not electing individuals, we're electing the policies that they will defend and put forward when they're in office.
And Trump articulated a very small set of priorities that I really found attractive and did so with calm and repetitiveness that seemed legit and sincere, especially the more he was attacked, because he never bended.
And I'd never seen that in American politics ever.
I don't think I took Trump seriously at all until the summer of 15, probably when our friend Patrick Feeney in Maine told me that he was thinking about voting for Trump or Bernie Sanders.
They seemed very similar to him.
And I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
They're polar opposites.
And my brain started to change.
I started to see the obvious, but you were already on it.
That's so interesting.
I mean, it's a lot to ask anybody to understand his own motives.
But why do you think, to the extent you can analyze it, why do you think you, living in a political world with a political job, being from a group of people who hated Trump, living in a neighborhood that hated Trump, why were you uniquely able to see the things that your neighbors couldn't, like the degradation of America and connect that to the policies that produced it?
Very much in our party, which I was surprised by because the left was always crazy and they were always sort of attracted to these people, at least they were open about it the Bernie Franks of the world.
At least, yeah, yeah, no, totally their weird lifestyles.
Political career that I would come across him at fundraisers and cocktail parties, and he's the guy I would gravitate to and stand next to the bar and chat with because he was so approachable and totally funny.
Well, tobacco represented, first of all, not only one of the biggest commercial products that we have in America, I always thought it was sort of entwined with American freedom through history.
100%.
We had all these tobacco producing states all around D.C., of course, but in the South, That was the point of the colony.
100%.
Absolutely.
They fought.
I mean, they threw the tobacco bales and coffee bales, but tobacco as well.
Um, tobacco was a great American heritage product.
And as a consumer who enjoyed tobacco, I always sort of respected it.
And, but it tied in also with a sense of personal responsibility, which we never see now, is there was a, you know, you had the freedom to smoke.
May it be bad for you?
Yes, I think every smoker knew it was probably bad for you.
You have the obvious, you cough, you get pneumonia every year, you smell bad, your teeth turn brown, whatever.
No one, no one was surprised when the attorney general came out and said smoking's bad for you.
But the hypocrisy, first of all, the overreach, Of someone in the Republican Party, supposedly champion of free markets and freedom and personal freedom, would go after and grandstand about the tobacco companies and how they had lied about the addictive properties of tobacco when everybody knew they were addictive.
The majority of countries smoked at that time.
We had come from a smoking heritage.
And not only that, the majority of governments, including state governments, were well invested in tobacco.
They had taken a lot of public employees.
Investment funds and invested in Philip Morris and RJR and Brown and Williamson and the other big ones.
I think he was chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.
I'm not sure why they had purview over it.
And I worked intricately in this in defense of the tobacco companies at the time when they came up with their huge settlement, which involved a lot of humiliation for them.
It was disgusting.
They paid for their own destruction to the detriment of individual Americans, but also to the detriment of people who'd been.
He refused to, I mean, on the heels of 9-11, he refused publicly and excoriated people for saying, pointing out Barack Obama's real name, Barack Hussein Obama or Barry Sator, or talking about his early years in, uh, in Indonesia, talking about his church that he went to in this anti-American, anti-white church, talking, refusing to talk about any of his heritage, which was obviously fabricated and, and dishonest.
It was the first time, I think, in American history that a presidential candidate was not only not vetted at all, But you were excluded from knowing anything about him of any relevance.
And John McCain, who was the standard bearer of the Republican Party at the time, had an obligation actually to be the top watchdog about his opponent.
That's your job.
Your job is to fight a battle, and he refused to fight it.
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So then we have eight years of Obama, and it becomes pretty clear in the second term that he hates the country he's leading.
He really hates white people.
Tons of whites voted for him.
Tons of whites voted for him because he was saying we're going to get rid of race consciousness in this country and treat people as citizens and human beings, and we can move past the division of the Like, disgusting civil rights movement thinking and just anti white zero sum.
And that Grant Park speech was like, I didn't vote for him, obviously, but I was like, I hope this is true.
It turned out to be the opposite of the truth.
He's like, hated whites.
And so by the time that ended in 2016, like, it was a different country.
I had never seen anybody be, I mean, it was a whole new time.
My son was young.
He was in a private school at the time that embraced all of those anti-white messages, separation.
I mean, it was literally the new, they talked about Jim Crow while they're instituting Jim Crow in the educational world and all throughout society and people in DC embraced it heavily.
People I had known.
All of a sudden we came from a country that was happy, self-confident, uh, Really proud of America suddenly questioning and apologizing for everything that had come before.
And obviously, Obama accelerated that to a degree that was disgusting, but it also meant you could no longer have an informed discussion.
I remember I had been in Washington for 20 years at that point, and I had Democratic friends.
I had tons of Democratic friends.
You could have a normal conversation, a normal meal.
And it was during the Obama years I noticed that you couldn't even have a conversation with these people.
They would just cut you off, get instantly angry, obviously, born of.
Some sort of cowardice on their part or regret.
But they were so vicious against open discourse.
They couldn't defend their candidate, or in that case, their president at that point, but they also couldn't discuss it.
And they hated you for it.
They hated you for pointing out if you just said simply, as I did to several Democrats, I'm not attacking Obama, just tell me why you support this man as our president, tell me what he's doing to strengthen our country.
I think he probably, well, he certainly was at the time.
He was a great writer and easy to talk to.
And I thought committed.
I don't know what his motivations were, but he seemed like he actually was on board for the long haul for this.
And, and, I will say my entire life I'd only been voting, barely missed the 88 election, but I've been voting since 92.
And in every four years, they would say, This is the existential election.
Like, this is the election that really is going to determine the path we're on.
And by the time 16 came around, it really seemed with the hangover and the depressing anti American, anti white, the Obama program was so dispiriting to witness.
The wreckage I felt socially.
That this was the existential election in 16.
I felt that strongly.
So, Trump is the only one.
Everybody else, I mean, Jeb Bush's program, I couldn't even tell you what it was.
It was forgettable at the time, but it was the same talking points they'd been using for two decades, referencing Ronald Reagan, who I was personally impressed by, but it's not really relevant during the Iraq wars and the Afghan war and all that stuff.
So, and the degradation that America had experienced that was so overwhelming at that time.
It seemed like an existential election, and Trump seemed fully committed.
And by the time it came around to the debates in the end, when he finally got the nomination, this is a man who had withstood every single personal degradation you could possibly imagine and every attack from every quarter of the country.
I was fully committed to his program and thought he was real.
I mean, normally when you're writing for a candidate, you've got the lawyer, like the campaign manager, or some dipshit consultant breathing over your shoulder.
You can't say that.
You need to soften that.
You need to.
Oh, really?
So, you end up with something that's not even distinguishable from the other side.
Trump was not just distinguishable from the left, he was distinguished himself from the rest of the 19.
You know, subpar candidates who were running, but they were all representative of that time.
And so I was, man, I never really, I didn't spend time around Trump.
I loved his sense of humor, but I loved his consistency.
And I loved the fact that he never backed down, especially with these people barking in his face and claiming he was the worst man on the planet.
And a huge departure from what you'd seen because I'd seen tons of candidates up close whose children were, you know, drunks or drug addicts or suicidal or hated their families, hated their parents, and were losers.
And they seemed the opposite of that.
They seemed like.
They also believed in a heritage America.
They believed in building stuff, creating jobs, creating prosperity.
And even though he was supposedly a billionaire, he was a guy who understood the working man, he understood how the country worked.
Sorry to go on so long, but I was going to say when I did early research, I didn't know a lot about our trade policies at the time.
I just didn't know the details.
And he talked a lot about it, probably second only to immigration.
And when I started doing research on it, I was shocked the amount of stuff that we had given away, just gratuitously surrendered to the rest of the world in our trade policies and how that had an effect on our manufacturing.
I'd always blamed the Clintons for the free trade and our agreements with Mexico and Canada.
Cleaning out, manufacturing.
I was aware of that.
I'd seen it happen.
But I didn't realize how deep the betrayal was until I started doing research against Trump's individual policies.
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It's interesting.
So, the winter of 2015, you're writing speeches for Trump.
I'm just starting to realize this might be the answer, or I should at least be open minded enough.
I think it was January of 16 that I decided I'm totally for Trump and wrote a piece about it.
But the winter, that winter, I remember being at a Christmas party.
You may have been there in our neighborhood on Lowell Street.
In the Northwest, at a friend's really good friend's house, and um, you know, everyone's there, every family you know is there, all of our kids, you know, it's like uh, December 23rd kind of potluck, right?
Just great, great people, great friends, and who we lived next to for so long.
And my wife, who's totally apolitical, people they're all grousing about Trump, I can't believe it, you know, he's a racist.
My wife, totally non political wife, goes, I like Trump.
And I remember someone, and everyone of course likes my wife.
So, but someone laughed, like, oh, yeah, I like Trump too.
And she goes, no, no, I really do.
Like, someone needs to stand up for, I don't know, people who've been shafted and none of them live here, but there are a lot of them in this country.
And like, I like Trump.
People were enraged with her.
Like, the only time I've ever seen anyone mad at my wife, it's just like no one's ever mad at her, but they were mad and embarrassed.
And like, I can't believe there's someone who in the room with me who could like Trump.
And she, of course, like, didn't even notice that people did.
She's like, well, no, what's wrong with that?
But, That was the response that she got.
You were already kind of a more, I mean, you brought your son to Episcopal school on a Harley Davidson.
So, like, obviously, you were a more controversial figure in the neighborhood.
I had the benefit of working, I say for myself, but working from home with a couple of clients that I'd had since 2004.
So, I'd already really enjoyed having a good relationship with them personally.
And I worked on issues that mean something to me that I could defend.
And I had a lot of license to speak my mind if I had an opportunity to do so.
So I never, I just didn't live in a world where I was subservient to the machine.
I hadn't been like that my entire life because we grew up in a different America where you could express yourself and people expected you to.
And there was never any apology.
You may be wrong, you may be dumb, but you can say what you think.
And so I just never, I'm so fortunate that I was never forced to think that way, I guess.
I think that's the reason.
And then I was just going to say if you did, you know, every four years they do the blind candidate thing where they describe the candidate without the name, without the history, is just literally a policy prescription, what this person stands for.
And if you did that with Trump at any time during his campaigns and you just separated the man from the policy, his policy is more closely aligned with my worldview and my sense of what it means to be America and American and to be a self confident man who.
Loves your country.
Like, I've never, I'm sorry to jump ahead, but I have never, even knowing how Washington works, even seeing the vitriol that he encountered and the overwhelming opposition from not just political Washington, but the media and the corporate world and everybody else who takes themselves seriously.
It was during Trump's inauguration speech the first time.
And if you read that speech, as I did, it's like, this is.
Unimpeachable.
This is not controversial.
These things that he is saying is such a breath of fresh air that no man in American politics has ever had the balls to say.
Why is that?
Like, how is it that we suddenly are in a country now where it's embarrassing to say that the reason you have elected officials is so they can take care of America and Americans?
To this day, I didn't understand it then.
I don't understand it now.
Maybe I'm simple minded, but I think you do understand it.
And I did it a little bit as an act of rebellion because I was aware.
I was aware.
I mean, I lived in a neighborhood that had a lot of rainbow flags, a lot of anti war signs, which I'm totally anti war, but the idea that you're displaying your political.
Views on your car or your lawn, I just find kind of reprehensible.
No, it was actually, but it was during the Trump era.
So, it wasn't explicitly pro Trump, but it certainly captured it was and it had a picture.
It was pro God, pro gun, pro life, anti Obama, and it had the sunset.
Thing and people reacted exactly as you would expect.
Very few people would accost me in traffic, beep their horn, flick me off, yell at me.
My car would get defaced often.
I also had a small American flag in the back of my car that I had to keep replacing because people would steal it.
But most people just avert their eyes in disgust.
And I don't know, those are the kind of people that I just couldn't care less about their opinion, even though they're 96% of the population of the city you live in.
But no, I also lived on kind of a cul de sac with a lot of like minded people just sort of by accident.
And also, the kind of people that would be averse to those messages, which again I think are foundational to life and certainly life in this country, don't have the courage to attack you for it because they're spineless weanies anyway.
Sorry to blame the victims, but it is absolutely right.
So then, the Trump reelect 2020, you I remember you wearing a shirt.
Now, by this point, I'm defending Trump every single day on Fox News on a not always Trump the man, but certainly Trump's policies, and certainly attacking people who are attacking Trump because it became a kind of handy guide to who was against the country's most basic interests.
It was an indictment of American culture, actually, that Trump had.
Perpetuated so aggressively over two decades.
The look at me culture, the facade of success, the very shallow idea that you are, you know, that your worth is caught up in your bank account and your display of wealth.
We could have a lot of long conversation about the failures of feminism, but one of them is that women.
Tried to aspire to a male sexual voraciousness that isn't conducive to them and also isn't beneficial to them because no man wants a woman who's been with a bunch of men.
That's like, that's a law that's been around forever, a human law.
And no celebration of supposed freedom is going to obscure that fact.
And so that, sorry, but that is exactly what Trump was talking about when he said when you're famous, they will allow you to do that.
And I noticed that everybody cut that part of the quote out, even though I thought it was the most interesting part of the quote.
Destroyed by his own employers, and their friend was the NBC and Washington Post colluding together to their detriment, but also to the detriment of their employee.
At the core was Trump's vulgar, but unfortunately true claim that rich and famous men have a totally different standard of behavior that is allowed by women.
I may have voted for him if he'd done something like that, if he'd been capable of doing something like that.
Otherwise, he.
Actually, I hate, I don't ever revel in other people's, uh, misfortune, but one of the great things about Trump was his dynasty bashing, destroying the fact that he had destroyed the Bush hold on the political world on the right, um, was one of his greatest accomplishments.
Even more so, I think, than destroying the Clintons, because he's never really followed through with that.
And rather he's never prosecuted these people who are so outside the law, but he did peel back the mask of these globalist pussies.
Yeah, who've had such an effect on our lives for so long.
Okay, so let me just say, it's just like one of the reasons I'm just so grateful to talk to you is because you were there and you saw a lot of this stuff.
These details just get lost.
And, you know, some details are not worth preserving because, like, who cares?
But some of them really are at the center of the question.
And so if you have the total displacement after over 200 years of the American ruling class by a new group, that's a big thing.
But nobody says a word about it.
And I'm not even taking sides in it.
Though you know, obviously, I have a side to take, but I'm not taking sides in it, but like that happened, it happened over 40 years and now it's complete.
But and but good or bad, like, by the way, that is the story of history, like, groups displace other groups, and there's reasons for that, and survival of the fittest, and all that got it.
Not even decrying it, I'm just saying the fact that no one will acknowledge that that happened and that it had massive effects on everything, and that it Those resentments or aspirations drive behavior that has results that we see all around us, like, and no one will say it.
So, I just want to establish for people who aren't aware of all these dynamics just that they do exist and they're absolutely consequential and we're seeing their effects, but no one will tell us that.
So, in your specific case, 2020 comes around, Trump is running for reelection.
And I go over to your house.
We lived obviously in the same neighborhood and you're wearing a shirt that says, Trump reelect, reelect the MFR.
And you're wearing this shirt.
So, I, I'm establishing all of this just so people understand that you are not a fair weather Trump voter.
I'm not a big hat guy, but I did occasionally wear my MAGA hat that I got signed from Trump and his, you know, not very well attended victory party in 2016.
So, if your campaign, and by the way, Trump thought he was going to lose.
And I think he said that.
He certainly said it to me.
But I know that he believed he was going to lose.
So, if you're going to the Trump party when the candidate and his campaign manager both believe they're going to lose, but you're at the victory party, We know it's a snapshot in history.
In fact, not only did they not think they were going to win, it was really hard to assemble the entire team and the entire family.
I'm assuming some of them were asleep.
I have no idea.
But once it was clear that he had won, and the best part of this celebration was seeing in real time, floor to ceiling, all of the self assured, really vindictive celebrities and other elected officials who had assembled to.
She had, you know, high feral intelligence, but I never thought there was any evidence that she had any abstract intelligence at all, like conceptual intelligence.
And I think if you're going to tell the truth about other people, you should be required, you should require yourself to tell the truth about yourself first.
So, because it's just so easy to be like, oh, they're bad.
And if you wake up every morning and say, I am the wisest, I am the toughest, I'm the leader of all men, and I can make decisions for other people, there's something wrong with you.
There's this amazing exchange between Jesus and John, and Jesus and Peter, excuse me, at the end of the Gospel of John when Jesus reappears and A couple of the disciples are fishing on the Sea of Galilee, and Jesus has prepared this, like, basically fish barbecue breakfast.
He's cooking fish over charcoal.
And I don't understand a lot of what it means, but there's a one point at which Jesus says, When you're young, you dress yourself.
I'm paraphrasing, but when you're young, you dress yourself and go wherever you want.
But when you're old, others dress you and take you where you don't want to go.
And I know that there are, of course, theological meanings that I'm probably not smart enough to fully.
That means a lot, and I don't understand everything that it means.
But on the most literal level, it's true that there comes a time for all of us when we lose agency and autonomy and sovereignty, and we're dependent on others, and we're so reduced.
I'm going to make you emotional thinking about it because it's the nightmare.
Jesus describes it as a nightmare, by the way.
He doesn't say it's okay.
He's like, this is bad.
It's going to happen to you, and it's going to happen to all of us.
And I just think it's important to keep that ever present.
Well, it's a really good reminder to respect and love those who are younger than you and those in your orbit to really pay attention to your children and your extended family.
I mean, these are the people you'll be dependent upon when you're older.
And that is not a concept that you hear much in America.
I mean, we move away from our family members.
We move away from our parents when in fact we should be embracing them, learning from them, but also taking care of them.
Well, I was watching Ben Shapiro the other day and he said, if you can't find a job in the town you're from, where your parents are buried, where you spent your whole life, that's on you.
I'd had a few reservations, probably during one, I thought, actually, early on, I was confused that he brought in first, empowered his son in law, who I was kindly disposed to and thought was motivated by loyalty to Trump's program and to Trump.
One of Trump's obvious deficits to anybody who was looking at him, even if you loved him for being an outsider, you knew that Washington was like a really complicated machinery.
And you need people who are well versed in navigating it and making it work because the federal government is just an enormous kind of out of control machine.
And if you don't have people who understand the levers of power and how To propel your program forward, you will fail.
And especially Trump, who had a very adversarial Republican Party, weasels like Paul Ryan, who had been elevated by Trump's victory and was newly the Speaker of the House, hated Trump.
It's a really good question, especially because he should have been really grateful that Trump was in power and thereby his power derived from Trump's success.
But none of them, none of them seemed to feel that way.
And boy, did he use his obstructionist power to the detriment of not just Donald Trump, but the people who had voted for Donald Trump.
So early on, Trump didn't take that seriously.
One thing that made him super attractive was he was an outside candidate.
He wasn't a politician, he was a businessman, and he was there for a very specific purpose.
And yet, he came in and Not only didn't understand how Washington works, he didn't take the appropriate measures to protect himself and his agenda.
Instead, he reverted to type and hired a bunch of Goldman Sachs people and billionaires and empowered his son in law, who had been a Democrat until the day before.
I think through the election, he had been a Democrat and a globalist.
And so that was concerning and upsetting.
And then the country got completely overwhelmed by the faux controversy around the Russia stuff, which was on its face absurd.
Knew anything about Donald Trump or anything about the campaign, you knew that not only did they not rely upon Russia for help, they had a hard time like coalescing their own power.
I mean, they were not an organized machine and they were not allied with any foreign power.
And so that was insane, but it occupied the country.
I'm still quite bitter about it, actually, and people don't talk about it.
We've suffered so many humiliations on the national stage since that people don't focus on it enough.
But it paralyzed the country and paralyzed the administration.
And I felt like Trump is responsible for that because leaders need to be able to delegate and they need to recognize where their weaknesses are and they need to account for those weaknesses.
And he didn't.
And he empowered a lot of people he shouldn't have empowered.
So I was dispirited during the early administration.
It was clear to me and anybody else who was watching that he was going to win reelection despite all the COVID stuff.
And at that time, we didn't know the details, how complicit Trump was by empowering the pharmaceutical companies during COVID, how responsible he actually was for that offense, that biological war against the country that he's supposed to lead.
At that time, I think most people and I were sympathetic to Trump, the position that he was in.
And then when so it was clear that he was going to win re election, I thought it was clear that he won re election on election eve.
I mean, he was over the top.
I mean, the numbers were there for him.
He won until they stepped in and took it away from him.
The summer of love with George Floyd, which was obviously a complete scam.
The man was killed, unfortunately, but he had had a, you know, he'd stuffed a bunch of fentanyl in his ass and he was upright and forthright with the cops who showed up on the scene.
The famous video started actually minutes before when he'd come out and come out of the store and he was sitting in his car with those two other people and he tried to pass the counterfeit dollars and he said to the cop, I cannot breathe.
So it was clear that it was a manufactured crisis from the beginning.
It was designed to divide America and it was designed to.
And the left's, you know, Antifa hordes took over neighborhoods in America, destroyed statues, killed people, destroyed businesses, ran rampant all over the country, but also in Washington, D.C., where Trump was president.
He didn't have any natural allies in the media, of course.
They distorted it, they lied about it.
That was clear.
But Trump is the chief executive, Trump is the president of the United States, and yet he failed.
To exercise his power and to quell the riots, he failed to articulate what was going on.
He failed to defend the law enforcement officer who was still riding in prison, by the way, who was wrongfully prosecuted and, you know, obscured the original report that demonstrated that Floyd had died from a fentanyl overdose.
So he abetted that by weakness or indecision or whatever.
It doesn't matter.
He failed in his job to reassert power and control, and he failed to articulate what was at stake, and he failed to protect himself and his countrymen and his physical country.
So, yes, I was upset about that.
And then he won re election.
He also won re election and was taken from him, but even his efforts to galvanize support throughout the country, to direct the FBI to investigate, to direct the Department of Homeland Security to articulate clearly that it had been stolen.
He just kept repeating silly talking points that weren't that compelling and made him look crazy, but he failed to use the power at his hand.
And then, of course, it was taken away from him and he sulked off into ignominy.
He was impeached but not convicted.
And then he went off into the wilderness where he soon started raising an enormous amount of money.
And my understanding is that he raised over a billion dollars during those wilderness years.
And every time he spoke about it, it was all about Donald Trump's personal woes, which were significant because these people were not only trying to crush him legally and abuse the judicial system against him.
In Florida and Georgia and New York, famously.
But it was all about Donald Trump.
It was all about the Donald Trump suffering.
It was never about the people that had gone there with legitimate license to protest against an election that was stolen from them, stolen from them in front of them.
These people were exercising their First Amendment rights to speech and assembly.
And they were crushed by their own government and they were crushed by people within their own party.
And the other party.
They were crushed by law enforcement.
They were abetted by the military.
They were abetted, of course, by the media and the corporate losers all over the country.
So there was a major headwind.
But Trump has the strongest voice in the country.
Even then, people listened to what Trump said.
Trump could have an impromptu press conference wherever he went.
Whatever Donald Trump said was worthy of listening to.
So he had the biggest microphone in the country.
And he never once utilized that for the benefit of the Americans who'd supported him, not only in 16, not only throughout the entire Russia nonsense, not only throughout the George Floyd nonsense.
but through the election in 2020.
That gave me a lot of pause.
I was like, what kind of reprehensible human being would not?
It's the most basic thing to protect your friends and in politics, your supporters, but anybody who's on your side and your fellow Americans.
And he had a lot of power to do so.
And he didn't exercise that power on behalf of anyone else.
Sorry, I hadn't tapped into this emotion in quite some time.
A lot of people are having this discussion now in the context of Trump's obvious betrayal of the American public, not just his voters, but the people who thought 16, 20, and certainly 24 were absolutely existential elections and that there was no other person on the planet who could come in and right the ship, return sanity to our great country,
to save our country is like the last opportunity on every front.
Like we're.
Crumbling, where we've got these enemies within, we've got these enemies all over the world who'd taken advantage of us during the Biden years because we had such a weak and incompetent and obviously joke of a presidency, and all these people around Biden who had wielded his power in his name to destroy this country.
So Trump was legitimately the last hope in 24.
But before that, in 2021, 2022, in 21 and 22, when he was raising all this money and it was the Donald Trump.
You know, victimhood show, he had failed when it mattered to articulate what Americans were protesting during January 6th, to articulate that it was actually a conspiracy by the federal government, abetted by all of these other big interests.
What's the point of having a judiciary if you can't rely upon them to protect the Constitution and protect the Americans who abide by it and pay their taxes and work hard and raise their families and love this country?
But Trump did and encouraged everyone else to take it and then never apologized, even when it became clear that the vaccine killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world.
has never really been studied in this country, but we can extrapolate and assume it killed, I mean, it killed people I know.
Got to earn a living at the same time and protect your family and your children while all of these offenses are going on.
It's really hard to keep up.
But when you start thinking about the things that Trump had done, especially when you're looking back now on the incredible.
Not just betrayal, but his sense of disdain for the people that had worked on his behalf, for the people who believed in him, for the people who had sacrificed so much.
And it really is hard to know, hard to remember now, but it was only a couple of years ago if you said you were a Trump administration, if you were a Trump voter, Trump fan, people had license to like beat you up in public and take your stuff, smash you in the face, take your hat off your head.
Like that was the prevailing attitude in America, and it was allowed.
To continue, like law enforcement would never come to your rescue.
It's like, oh, it's like the age old thing.
Oh, you wear a slutty outfit, so you're being raped.
It's like, oh, you wore Trump paraphernalia, therefore you know that you're going out in public and someone's going to assault you.
Like, that was pretty much the law of the land during so many years.
Get real and get serious about your responsibilities.
And he's no one ever says anything about that.
In fact, these days I find this is a new phenomenon I've never encountered.
You attack Trump on the basis of substantive policy decisions that he's made, betrayals that are obvious and quantifiable, and you will get people in your face.
And no way am I going to be kowtowed and not saying the obvious, which is this guy has failed in his responsibility.
He is disdainful towards the American people.
He's disdainful towards the people who put him in office and the people who sacrificed a lot, real physical and economic injury to get this man in office and to witness.
The vitriol and the moronic, the moronicy, and just the never ending me, and you're not with me.
I'll define what the program is now once I'm in office.
It doesn't work that way.
You define the program before you run for president.
People attach themselves not to you as a person, they attach themselves to your program for their benefit.
So, when was the breaking point for you as someone who?
Had a Trump bumper sticker, wrote his speeches, voted for him three times, wore the Trump t shirt, wore the MAGA hat in Northwest DC.
What was the point at which you'd and who also has acknowledged that, like, for a decade, attacking Trump, hating Trump, being mad at Trump were all kind of markers for attitudes that were anti American, anti white, anti you.
But then, legitimately upset about his failure to stand up for America and Americans during the George Floyd thing, his complete abnegation of responsibility with January 6 political prisoners.
And that represented the first time that he'd ever stuck up for them.
And what really mattered is when they were rotting in prison with no constitutional guarantees of a speedy trial or hygienic conditions or ability to eat real food or not being assaulted by cockroaches or prison guards who used them as sport.
And it was completely not only allowed, tolerated, but expected and even celebrated in the media and by Republican elected officials.
Many of whom are still in Congress, by the way.
So there was that.
But he, yes, he pardoned them once he was in office.
But my understanding from several people, I remember witnessing it at the time because I was upset that he said nothing on their behalf.
Again, that's the power he could have wielded when he was in the wilderness.
He could have talked about them first and foremost.
He could have informed people about the conditions they were in and he could have supported them.
But he also could have supported them with the huge financial cash that had been flooding in to him personally because he never stopped raising money.
He raised an enormous amount of money in the wilderness years, and he spent not a dollar of it for the benefit of those people.
Didn't pay for their legal fees, didn't take out advertisements on their behalf, didn't do anything that he should have done, that anybody with a lot less resources would have done.
There's someone named Suzanne Monks, who was a very active advocate on their behalf.
I think she's a wife of a fellow who was incarcerated.
I may be getting that wrong, but she was dogged and persistent throughout all of it.
She claims now, and I believe it, she's reminding people at the moment that the Trump we have now, that has betrayed his base and well beyond his base, every other American who relies upon him to steward this country with sobriety and concern for them first and foremost and only, that it wasn't easy to get Trump to pardon them, that she had to.
Personally, rally people, and you were helpful in this to push his hand, to force his hand, to make it untenable for him not to pardon them.
And it's pretty easy, as he's demonstrated, to sign documents pretty easy, pretty easy to do, you know, to sign executive orders, whatever power they have.
But uh, so it wasn't a lot of skin off Donald Trump's back to do that.
Uh, he did the right thing, and I applaud him for it, just as I applaud him for closing the border.
It's like those two things I can't really think of many other things that he's done.
I can't think of anything else really that he's done.
Um, since he's been in office now for a year and a half, um.
So he did the right thing eventually under great pressure, and good for him for doing it.
But he could have done it a lot earlier.
He could have made a much greater impact for the benefit of those Americans who were not rich, who were not well known, who were motivated by completely reasonable and constitutionally protected outrage over what had been done to them.
I mean, they are representative of America, not just Trump voters, America and Americans.
The best kind of people, I think.
And to see them, by the way, in the background, I know it didn't get a lot of news at the time.
Periodically, it would.
No time in American history has the FBI been rallied with such vigor and focus and economic empowerment to go in and root out these supposed criminals.
What had they done?
They had walked on the grounds of the US Capitol, the people's house.
Exactly.
And then they'd gone about.
Back home to their hometowns to take care of their children and their jobs.
And they would have manhunts, like publicized manhunts with, you know, 30 guys in SWAT gear and helicopters in their neighborhood.
Meanwhile, all of our cities are crumbling, and Washington, D.C. was like a free for all for gangs and carjackers and people walking around with guns in public.
You know, it's okay for the criminals to have guns, but God forbid there would be some hardworking taxpayer exercising his right in the Second Amendment and the First Amendment.
So, The two foundational freedoms in our country, and Trump was unwilling to protect them in any meaningful manner until he signed their pardons.
Again, good for him for doing so, but he still failed in that responsibility, as far as I'm concerned.
Really, initially, it was the, the attack, the attack on Iran initially last year when I guess we successfully eradicated all of their nuclear capability.
It may still be on the, the White House website cause it was on there as even when we engaged in this latest war with Iran, this unnecessary, what will be probably a forever war that will has killed Americans and is going to degrade us as a country.
Um, significantly already has.
Um, It was that.
And then it was his reaction, well, his complete failure the first year to hold anybody to account for all of the crimes, the obvious crimes, all of the things that had been exposed from Russia to COVID policy to the January 6th stuff.
I mean, all of that has been demonstrably revealed to be the Capitol Hill pipe bombers.
Capitol Hill pipe bombers, all of the Biden era corruption, the auto pen scandals, the preemptive pardons, the.
The people who had abused their national security credentials and their positions of power to hurt Americans.
That is all laid out, laid out even by his own intelligence officers.
Tulsi Gabbard, you know, a year ago revealed that Barack Obama was directly guilty, I believe, of treason.
I don't know how you could say it any other way.
A former president who advocated and financed and allowed his national security apparatus to survey and obstruct and take out a sitting U.S. president, who again, Is not a man.
He is representative of the power that we invest in him as Americans.
So it's not an offense against Donald Trump, it's an offense against you and me and everybody we know.
Um, so his complete failure to utilize the information that he had at his fingertips and in the Justice Department, and by the way, US Congress, US Senate, three levers of power supposedly designed and at his disposal to enforce the law, to restore sanity, to hold people accountable for breaking the rules, um, to the detriment of our country and Americans.
And he failed to do that.
And then he attacked Iran.
Then Charlie, I guess there are many other things in between, but once, uh, Charlie Kirk was murdered.
I feel like he failed on a tonal level.
I don't feel that he displayed enough real sympathy or focus on finding Charlie Kirk's death.
And on solving the crime, on using the entire apparatus of the US government to solve this crime in a way that would allay people's fears of a conspiracy or other things going on.
Donald Trump should have gotten up and given a press conference and said, We are going to find out who's responsible for this.
It doesn't matter what the end results show.
We have a responsibility as a public figure who was publicly assassinated.
And we're not going to tolerate this.
And whoever's responsible for it is going to be brought to justice.
And he's totally failed to do that, I think.
He failed to articulate that.
And he failed to use, again, the apparatus that is entrusted to him to do that.
And it's a huge apparatus, by the way.
Which, while the rest of America is degrading and getting less effective, I think we have a very effective, very clued in surveillance and technology and well funded US military and law enforcement apparatus that knows every detail about Americans at all times.
They can reconstruct, they could tell, you know, if you were in the Capitol during January 6th through a whole variety of means, but your cell phone primarily.
They know who was there, they know who's everywhere, they know where you are at all times, they can listen in on you.
But they can certainly pinpoint where you've been and what you've done.
So, why wouldn't you utilize that power to the benefit of justice?
I mean, the director of national intelligence, the head of the counterterrorism center, like, these are people who are appointed by you to root out corruption, to, you know, fight back against foreign threats, make America safer, but defend our citizens against not just attack, but foreign attack.
If there's any element of Foreign involvement here, which it seems early on there was.
Um, And then the fact that he, sorry, can I continue this answer only because it makes me so mad?
The weird dynamics surrounding Charlie Kirk's death, the investigation, the initial press conference held by the supposed head of the FBI, Kash Patel, who said a lot of nonsensical things behind that podium, and no one has ever explained it.
What does it mean to see, I'll see you in Valhalla, Charlie?
No one's ever been compelled to answer that question, but Kash Patel stood at the podium and made a very big point.
He could have made a lot of points.
First of all, they released video of the supposed killer, Tyler Robinson, jumping off like a 20 foot roof.
It was a very bad quality video, even though they had high quality video on that entire campus.
They released this ridiculous, like absurd, like 1973 quality VHS tape video of the supposed killer.
They released all of his supposed text messages that detail all of the.
If you were looking to incriminate yourself, if you had gotten away with the perfect crime, then you inexplicably decided to write down everything, every incriminating detail of your crime.
We're supposed to believe that he did that.
We're supposed to believe that the guy in the crowd, George Zinn, who'd been in various other hotspots like the Boston Marathon bombing, and he'd been a witness at 9 11, that George Zinn is going to just immediately erupt.
Out of his seat, take his trousers off and run down, screaming, waving his hand, saying, I shot Charlie, like within the first 30 seconds of it.
I was expecting him and Tyler Robinson to be visited in prison by Lewis Joyland West.
Yes, exactly.
I pronounce you crazy.
And then you have an inexplicable fast-acting cancer that kills you within six months.
That's normal.
But sorry, back to the Kash Patel thing, the fact that he gave this press conference that was devoid of any real detail that you would want in the aftermath of this public execution.
But then to emphasize things that seem so random and inexplicable, like Valhalla.
Who the hell knows what Valhalla is and how is it appropriate to this guy?
The Epstein files, the JFK files, the 9 11 files, all things that he had committed to showing to the American people who actually own it and have every right to know the details about that huge terrorist attack and the assassination of our president.
And Obviously, the Epstein network, which not only had a ton of victims, but obviously represented hidden power over our elected leaders.
So, Trump had committed to doing all three of those things.
He's done none of them.
But beyond just abdicating his power, he was disdainful of those.
This is when he first started defining MAGA, Make America Great Again, as Donald Trump the man, like investing within himself.
In almost biblical fashion.
Like, no, MAGA is not what I articulated clearly and coherently for 10, 12 years in public life.
And as President of the United States, MAGA is what I say it is today, tomorrow morning, anytime during the day, because I'm Donald Trump.
So I will determine what is MAGA.
And further, if you consider yourself to be allied with this political coalition that I created over a decade, then I don't need you.
If you're insisting upon transparency and the things, You're insisting upon me making good on the promises that I made to you in this relationship that we have.
I promise you something.
You vote me into office so I can effectuate the change that you voted for.
Then, if you were insisting upon that, then you're a flipping kook and I don't need you.
So, it was really at that moment when that was his response to the Epstein files.
And then when he engaged in the most ham handed PR stunt I've ever seen.
Which was great because it revealed how many fake, paid for, supposed influencers there are on the right, brought them to the Oval Office, gave them binders full of Epstein material that had already been in the public domain for a very long time, and said that was the entirety of it.
And then, of course, because he's Donald Trump, he contradicted himself six or seven times.
Epstein wasn't real.
Epstein was a pedophile.
He didn't have any victims.
He got his elected officials out there to say those things in front of Congress.
It's just laughable.
And then, of course, he turned on Marjorie Taylor Greene, who I think, of all the elected members of Congress, represents in sincere, hardworking fashion what it meant to be a not Trump fan, but a Trump lieutenant.
I mean, this was someone who was inspired by Donald Trump and Donald Trump's program to leave her successful business, run for Congress.
And thank God for her because she got there and discovered what a captured institution it is, how flawed the individuals there are, how hostile they are to the American people who put them there, and specifically the Republican voters who'd put them there.
And then to see Trump turn on her and treat her the way that he treated her was, you know, she's an individual and she's tough and she can handle it.
But that kind of like repetitive, crazy disloyalty.
And to treat someone who had actually put themselves to hard work to great effect.
You know, you don't know what people's motives actually are, but I mean, from very close, I can say I don't think he was excited about it, but he did it.
They tried to shoot him, someone tried to shoot him twice.
That's demonstrable, but his level of fear over that to me is not even, I'm not sympathetic to it.
It's not excusable.
He is not just one man.
He's the president of the United States.
He, even if his power is limited, as he's demonstrated, it obviously is limited, he does have the power to stop and hold a press conference and be like, I don't know what it looks like, but he could say, I'm under incredible pressure from this outside force.
Obviously, Israel is exerting this pressure on him.
He could be forthcoming and straightforward about it and rally the American people behind him, people who.
A lot of people know it.
A lot of people are aware of it and they're upset about it.
And he should just acknowledge it and say, I'm in this untenable position, but I'm no longer going to put up with it.
And even if our government is thoroughly corrupted in every single aspect of our government and there's this outside foreign power that is generating all this fear, there are some elements of the US government he could be using to his benefit to root them out.
That is one thing you learn from growing up in DC and just being around it a lot is that these agencies are totally corrupt and the structure of them is just rotten and it's really hard for good people to have any effect on outcomes.
It doesn't mean there aren't good, patriotic, intelligent people serving in every single one of these agencies and you never want to say a nice word about CIA or DOD or DOW or whatever they're calling it now, but any of these agencies.
But it's just a fact that there are really good people motivated by patriotism who work there.
And they're not the majority, clearly.
They're not in control of the levers, obviously, but they're there.
And then you have like people like Sebastian Gorka.
Who I don't even know if he's an American citizen, but he's clearly like a highly damaged person, not a smart person, not a loyal American in any sense.
I guess what I'm saying is, and you would just know this because of the life that you've led, you could make a good faith effort at identifying those people.
Of course, you'd have to go through and be a huge fight.
And I'm sure that's some comfort to know that they're being true to themselves and true to the country.
But at some point, it's going to take those people actually talking to each other and saying, enough is enough.
I mean, I actually think we do have.
Remedies for an out of control, megalomaniacal, destructive president.
I think honest people who have that power should consider taking it.
The 25th Amendment is there for a reason.
It's not crazy to talk about it in this context.
If our country is suffering great and lasting damage, which it seems to be, then sober minds need to come in and exercise what power they have for the benefit of all of us.
But also, if it's shame, if there's blackmail material, as there is on so much of our elected officials, if there isn't Trump, It's like, I'm sorry.
You've demonstrated that you don't have any personal shame.
I mean, you've demonstrated that a lot.
You persevered through all of these accusations of disgusting personal behavior.
How shocking is it, really, if there are pictures of you doing compromising things?
Not very.
And it doesn't even matter.
Like, actually, I hate the term, but sack up.
Like, really, you again, it comes back to the obligation that he has, not just to Donald Trump, to everybody else in the country, well beyond Donald Trump.
Sure, there's an argument to be made that you get money from those who will give it to you.
It's just the nature of that game.
But it's still reprehensible and it's still a big question mark.
Why would someone who has obvious and demonstrated allegiance to a foreign power give Donald Trump $250 million while he's running for president?
I mean, how is that defensible?
It's really not.
If Russia had given a PAC for Trump, if the mayor of Moscow had somehow You know, assembled an enormous amount of money and put it in a 501c3 for Trump's benefit.
A friend of mine, right before this interview, a great guy named Paul Leslie, sent me a rider from Frank Sinatra, one of Frank Sinatra's concerts in the early 80s.
And it was a rider stipulating all of the various things he needed in the back room.
It was like, you know, specific chocolates, specific booze.
But my only point was, and I think it's obvious to people watching this, you're probably not hanging around with a bunch of, you know, non binary Kamala Harris voters.
So, most people you know voted for Trump and strongly supported him.
I mean, if the president of the United States is not just your.
I don't think he was my protector, but he's the protector of the country.
He represents the country.
That's correct.
And that's his sole job.
Actually, one job, one job, one job only is to husband the resources that you have, that you were given.
And he's failed on every level, but he's also degraded what we have, what we had, and was already under attack for so long.
So it's unclear what's going to happen.
But I've never seen, you know, I'm 55.
I've seen a lot of.
What could have become unrest, I've never seen more fertile ground for real unrest than what we have now, especially with the advent of AI, the current economy, our debt, and the prospect of more Americans dying in a country they can't find on a map and fighting a fight that they can't articulate, don't understand, and don't want.
Do you, given the attitudes you've described, like total contempt for people who supported him, total reverence for or unwillingness ever to criticize people who are clearly opposed to the United States, do you feel personally threatened?
I think the backlash that we're going to see and whatever comes, I mean, the reaction from the lunatic left is going to be overwhelming.
They may be disorganized now.
That's the other thing we didn't talk about is that Trump's coalition that he put together, he had so demonstrably and definitively spanked, shamed, destroyed the left.
I mean, the level of dispiritedness and disorganization among the left in November of 24 and December of 24.
I mean, they didn't engage in any kind of retrospective or They didn't try to figure out how they could represent the country or the party or fix the problems.
But what they did do was they recognized that their political fortunes were dashed for some time to come because it was obvious.
It was obvious that Trump had a total mandate.
To do the things that he had been, which is obviously why people are so upset that he didn't grasp the nettle and do what he said he was going to do because he had such fertile ground to do it and he had both houses of Congress and he could have actually accomplished a lot more than just signing executive orders and closing the border.
God bless him for closing the border.
But why hasn't he, you know, expelled the 50 million people who are here illegally?
Probably not Trump's family either, which is something we haven't talked about because the focus that he's had, we talked about, you know, he's focused on arches and music, but he's really focused on business for Trump and the Trump family.