Nick Fuentes traces his rise from a Ron Paul-influenced Chicago teen to a blacklisted nationalist after clashing with The Daily Wire over Israel and neoconservatism, losing his show amid Media Matters pressure. His confrontational turn—backed by figures like Joe Kent—culminated in a TSA no-fly listing and an assassination attempt after a viral tweet, which he links to online radicalization. With Tucker Carlson, he debates whether Jewish identity drives pro-Israel lobbying, rejects collective guilt claims, and agrees on banning dual citizenship for lobbyists while clashing over framing. Both critique Christian Zionism as misguided, warn of cultural collapse from pornography and gender role shifts, and advocate suppressing opposition through federal enforcement—culminating in Carlson’s push for a 9/11 truth commission exposing alleged insider trading and intelligence foreknowledge. [Automatically generated summary]
And I want to give you a chance in a minute to just lay it out, not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of the same thing.
You know, I agree with you on some of the things you're pivoting against for sure, but what do you affirmatively believe?
So I just want to stand back and let you explain it.
But first, I want to understand how you got to where you are, how you became Nick Fuentes.
So here's, I'm just, this is my understanding of your life arc.
And tell me if I'm wrong.
You show up at Boston University.
You grew up in a suburb of Chicago, kind of working class, suburb of Western suburb, and you show up at Boston University in the fall of 2016 at the height of the, well, the battle between Trump and Hillary.
It's like this kind of pivot point in history.
And you show up with a MAGA hat and you have a Trump hat and you have like basically off-the-shelf Republican views.
The Young Americans for Liberty, Prager U, which kind of skews a little more, I guess, conservative, but very basic small government, individualism, libertarian type stuff.
So I, like everybody else in 2016, went through this ideological awakening.
And first, I shifted to Trump.
And the first realization that I had is it started in 2016, actually, because the primaries, you know, started in 15, around April or May.
I think it was the first announcements.
And I had very negative feelings about Trump.
And like I said, pro-Rand Paul, pro-Cruz.
But when the actual Iowa caucus happened and the primaries began, I saw that Trump was dominating.
And every night in the Super Tuesday, when they had all the big contests, one after the other, I remember the media was furious that he was winning one after the other.
And I remember thinking to myself, like structurally, if I'm a libertarian or a conservative and we want to change the country, we have to win elections.
If you want to win elections, you have to bypass the media.
I sort of have this realization that the media was really standing in the way.
They were the problem.
And I had this realization that all the conservatives and Republicans up to that point were afraid to take on the media.
They, like Mitt Romney, would cower before them and were so apologetic and so weak.
And so initially I said, you know, I don't, I actually don't ideologically agree with Trump at all, but he will destroy the liberal media or at least their monopoly on thought and opinion.
Yes.
And then a breakthrough can occur.
So that was kind of the first hump.
And I said, you know, I could get behind Trump because he's a winner.
He'll win for our side.
And that was kind of the first big thing.
And then as I listened to him more and more, his speeches and his rhetoric, I started to think about immigration.
And, you know, so for us, he was like the savior of Western civilization.
We looked at him as like, we, and by we, I mean me and all the online kids, teenagers that supported him, we really believed the hype.
Like Teflon Don, like he could go into any scenario and win.
Like he was unstoppable, unflappable.
Nobody could score points on him.
He just seemed like, you know, they, they said you can't stump the Trump.
Like he could not be stumped.
And so we, he just had this aura of inevitability, invincibility.
And we, I loved that.
And so I went to Boston University.
I got on campus in September and I was wearing my MAGA hat everywhere in the dining hall, walking down the street.
And it's a city campus.
So you're walking down Commonwealth Avenue and, you know, you're in the city of Boston, which is super liberal.
And at that time, it's different than it was now.
People were getting fired for wearing MAGA hats.
People were getting punched in the face.
It was like being a Trump supporter was, it was out there actually back then.
It was controversial.
It was controversial everywhere, not even, you know, just in liberal Boston.
But so I was wearing my hat everywhere and I was just getting accosted constantly.
In the dining hall, people come up and yell in my face.
Some black girl in a hijab ran up to me and said, you know what you're supporting?
You're racist.
And I'm trying to get my pizza.
You know, I'm trying to get my oatmeal or whatever at the dining hall.
This was happening constantly.
And so I was going then on Twitter and I had a small Twitter account with my real name and face and I had, you know, maybe 200 followers and I'm posting about my experiences.
And I caught the attention of a lot of people on campus for wearing the hat, for posting on Twitter.
And I catch the attention of my peers and they start going at me on Twitter and giving me death threats.
We're going to kill you.
How dare you?
If I see you, I'm going to beat your ass, that kind of thing.
And this was my first experience with this.
You know, now we're all kind of desensitized to it, but that was my first run and with like, you know, this intensity from the left.
So I find a police report.
I get real nervous.
And, you know, when you're a student, you can't really avoid other people.
You're in a dorm room.
You're in the, you know, so you're vulnerable.
And anyway, long story short.
So one of these guys from the campus libertarian group, Young Americans for Liberty, he reaches out to me and says, hey, I'm, I'm not going to say his name, but he goes, I go to a school in Boston.
I'm from YAL.
He said, and I'd like to set up a debate with you and one of these people that's been giving you a hard time on campus because they were doing a lot of events.
He said, is that something you're interested in?
I said, absolutely.
And so he goes around and he asks some of the bigger people that are antagonizing me on Twitter and everybody says no.
And he goes, yeah, no one's going for it.
I said, well, can you try again?
Can you?
And so he finds one guy and it turns out to be the student body president of the whole university.
Yeah, the senior, this liberal douchebag progressive.
And he's the student body president of the student government there.
And so we set up the debate.
It was about a week before the actual election.
So I think it was end of October, beginning of November.
And they hold it in this auditorium in the center of the campus.
And like 300 people show up.
So it turns into like this huge, and they're all liberal.
They all hate my guts.
They're heckling me the whole time.
They're yelling at me.
We do this debate about Trump versus Hillary.
And so I'm there and I'm pro-Trump and I say, you know, I think Trump's going to win.
And I'm straight up like ripping the Ben Shapiro talking points.
I'm saying, you know, it's got everything to do with culture and nothing to do with race and diversity is a problem and all this.
And I decisively win the debate.
It's like not even close.
The debate wraps up and this girl who I think I had talked to her on Twitter once or twice comes running up to the stage after the debate and it's Cassie Dillon.
And at this time, she's a fellow at Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's company.
And like I said, I barely knew her.
And she comes running up and she says, oh my gosh, I live streamed this debate on Periscope on Twitter.
Why do you think, so you're an 18-year-old college freshman, you're clearly talented and you're engaged, you're really interested, and you ask not, not crazy questions, like what is this?
And rather than explain it, they just call you a racist, call you an anti-Semite.
Like, that's the first response.
That seems like the least effective.
Well, it turned out to be not very effective in your case, but that seems like the least effective thing you could do.
Well, I think that you have to look at it not in retrospect because hindsight is 2020.
And so, looking back, you could say they made a terrible mistake because look at sort of what they provoked or what they catalyzed.
But at that time, you got to consider: I'm 18 with no following, with no network.
I'm coming from the suburbs of Chicago.
My parents didn't go to college.
I have no connections.
And so, for them, it was very easy that if they detected that a promising young guy was going to become anti-Israel in the conservative movement, they could crush that person easily and grind them under the heel.
So, they sort of were alerted: oh, there's a precocious young guy that isn't on board with Israel.
We'll keep an eye on him.
And if he gets too vocal or popular, we'll cut him down.
We'll crush him.
Because at this time, as you know, in 2017, it's a very different time.
2016, 17, any criticism or dissent on the subject was a death sentence.
You became radioactive, unhireable, blacklisted.
And that's exactly what happened.
And basically, from then on, it was just this escalating series of blacklisting, censorship, hit pieces, rumors to try to ostracize me from the movement.
While you're a college student, yes, as a freshman, yeah.
You know, first they would try to dissuade me from asking questions because I was friends with a lot of the Daily Wire writers, not just Cassie Dillon, but many of them, many of them were Jewish.
And I would ask them point blank.
I would say, so why do we give Israel all this money?
$3.8 billion per year?
What is that for?
And they would say, well, you know, there's a really good answer for that, but you're asking it in the wrong way.
You're asking it in an anti-Semitic way.
I'd say, I'm just, I'm asking for the proof.
You know, what's the argument there?
And so first it was the sort of, hey, man, could you kind of tone it down?
Maybe just don't bring that up so much.
But I was persistent because at this time, I was genuinely inquisitive.
I wanted to know, is there an actual reason?
And I was actually expecting that there was a really good reason for all of it.
And the more that I read, the more that I dug into the subject, the more I found out there's a lot of these neocon Jewish types behind the Iraq war.
There's the foreign aid complex, which is really unique.
There's APAC, which is this intense foreign lobby where it's bipartisan.
It seems to be the only thing that the parties can agree on.
At this time, I was on RSBN and I had this show, which I named after the inaugural.
It's called America First.
And I would kind of subtly bring up the Israel topic and say, you know, this is something you're not allowed to talk about.
This seems like an apparent contradiction.
It's a big problem.
And they escalated their attacks.
Cassie Dillon would call my boss, who she was friends with, at RSBN every day for weeks, saying, you'll never believe what Nick said on his show tonight.
It's so racist.
It's so bad.
You got to take him off the air.
It's going to make you look bad.
And I would then get word from my boss, Joe Seals.
He was the founder at Rightside.
And he would call me up and say, I don't know what has gotten into Cassie.
I thought you guys were friends, but she is calling me every day hysterically demanding that I fire you.
And I was like, wow.
Like, so it just keeps getting worse.
It starts with this, like, they're very weird about the subject.
Then they don't want to talk to me.
Then they're trying to get me fired.
And I'm thinking, okay, so clearly what I'm asking about, there's some truth there that they don't want.
It was a clip, ironically, where I was talking about the travel ban, the so-called Muslim ban, and I was defending it.
And I said that the First Amendment does not protect foreign nationals.
It doesn't protect Salafists, you know, Wahhabists.
He's like, you know, I said, they're saying that there's a constitutional right for radical Muslims to come here.
And I said, that, how are they protected by the First Amendment?
They're foreign nationals.
And the authorial intent of the First Amendment was actually not even to protect that to begin with.
You know, it's kind of anti-Christendom radical ideology.
So it's something, ironically, that probably Shapiro and Cassie would agree with, but they recognize the currency that a clip like that would have with the left because the left could say, you're Islamophobic, you're racist.
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So, where does that, like, where does that leave you ideologically?
So, at this point, I'm realizing that something is deeply wrong here in the conservative movement because we were led to believe in those days of the campus culture wars and Gamergate and all that, is that we're the marketplace of ideas and we're about free speech and the rest of it.
And here I am being like nuked from orbit by Ben Shapiro as a kid and for asking what I thought were reasonable questions because I didn't come from some strange background.
I come from a normal home.
You know, my parents are Catholic.
They're married.
We came from a relatively affluent suburb.
I went to Lions Township.
That's like a very affluent high school.
In other words, I didn't wake up as like the son of, you know, William Luther Pierce.
I wasn't like a skinhead or something.
You know, I was like a normal guy that was like, yeah, like country's too diverse.
We're too pro-Israel.
Like, this is reasonable.
And I was just getting sandbagged for it and blacklisted.
And what's more, nobody cared.
Like, because I remember going on Twitter and saying, like, you know, why isn't anyone sticking up for me?
Where's Dave Rubin?
You know, the free speech warrior.
Where's he on this one?
Where's Shapiro?
Where's all these people?
And in some way, they were all sort of complicit in this.
So I realized that the conservative movement was completely bankrupt in that way.
Well, it you became, I mean, let me just say, I'm so familiar with, you know, I was much older when it happened to me and much more, much more insulated.
I was not a college student.
I was like 45.
So, you know, and I was in a much better place to withstand the pressure.
But I do think one, and I want to, this is my main question to you: is when you get attacked, when people call you names, like they always called me racist, and I would always think to myself, I'm actually not.
I would tell you if I was racist.
I'm a little sexist, but I'm not racist.
And I never understood why they did that.
And then I thought, maybe the point is to make me racist where you just get to, you get to a point where you're like, well, if you're going to slander me, then I'll just become the thing you're calling me.
I do think that's a feature of human nature, don't you?
And if you stare too intently at the accusers, at the, you know, whatever Ben Shapiro's or Mark Levins or Ted Cruz or whoever it is calling you names, it like distorts you and you actually change and become what they say you are.
No, I don't think it ever did because I know who I am.
I had a very firm grounding of what I'm about, which is that I was deeply Catholic and I still am, deeply patriotic and pro-American.
And I don't consider myself temperamentally to be an angry or a hateful person.
So I never, in other words, lost my center.
You know, they say this thing about you look into the abyss and the abyss stares back into you.
That never really happened to me.
I was frustrated.
I was frustrated because I felt like I was being denied a level playing field opportunity.
And it wasn't fair.
I felt like I was right.
And these people that were basically hypocrites, grifters, not really conservative, they were controlling the conversation.
And as a consequence, they were controlling the Republican movement.
And I really perceive this as like an urgent crisis because if we wanted Trump to deliver America first, to realize it, it had to, the Trump movement had to transform the conservative movement to reflect the victory that Trump won.
So, and I won't keep torturing you with biographical questions, but I do want to like, so how you get your show gets canceled, you drop out of college, you have no money, you decide you want to work at the Leadership Institute, which is like a conservative think tank of or some organization of longstanding in Arlington, Virginia.
Can't get the job there because you're worried about immigration.
I started a YouTube channel and I was in my parents' basement.
And I put up a green screen.
I got my computer, webcam, and I just started going live every night in the same way that I did at RSBN.
I just did it on my own channel where I had creative control over it.
And at that point, I basically mounted an attack on the conservative establishment from the outside.
I sort of realized that there's sort of two ways you could play this.
You could infiltrate the conservative movement.
I could recant all my views and apologize and pretend to be one of them and bypass the gatekeepers, the censors.
I said, or I could kind of be in the wilderness and I would be alone and I would be radioactive, but I could challenge the credibility and legitimacy of the conservative movement and its claim to represent conservatives.
And that was kind of the mission was to say, no, the immovable standard is America first.
I'm going to represent it.
And the conservative movement is going to have to move to me.
I will not move towards them.
And I thought, maybe I'll make money and maybe I won't, but I'm going to try it for a couple of years and I'll see how it goes.
Well, I kind of took a page from Trump's playbook, which is that you have to, in the country, the left was hegemonic over all the institutions.
And you have this organized opposition to the left and the Democrats and all the left-wing controlled institutions.
And the organized opposition comes from movement conservatism, the Republican Party, Fox News, you know, the sort of constellation of conservative institutions.
And I said, the problem is, whether you go Democrat or you go Republican, you're kind of just like getting the same thing.
You're getting the establishment effectively.
The opposition is basically controlled or moderated.
It's not authentic opposition.
It's not a true alternative.
And so I said, we, and by we, I mean the true America first nationalists, we need to fight for the mantle of the opposition.
And then leading the opposition, then we can take the fight to the left as the conservatives, as the Republicans, whatever.
But first, you have to win that internal battle among the audience that the conservatives have.
Because that's really the problem is that they have usurped.
The base is extremely conservative, extremely anti-left.
But the Republican Party, like those that represent them are not at all.
They're very, a lot of them are atheists.
A lot of them are gay.
A lot of them are feminists.
And so I said, like, we kind of need to rally like Trump did, rally the base against the establishment and then take the fight to the left as the true alternative.
And if you could win that, then you win the country.
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So here's my question.
So I look at the landscape now and the people I see as, you know, I'll just, I'll narrow it down to foreign policy.
Okay.
Who is effectively opposing neoconservative foreign policy, which has been the dominant foreign policy of the United States for my entire life, which has been so destructive, I think.
And I've seen it.
Who are the voices who are sincere in their opposition to that and who have some ability to change the country's orientation on foreign policy?
And those would include Marjorie Taylor Greene, JD Vance, Matt Gates, me.
Why would you, in an almost Joe Kent, those strike me as someone who's really interested in this topic.
I'm not that interested in the Jews, but I'm very interested in the foreign policy question.
Those seem like the most sincere people, those seem like the only hope of the country to get away from this destructive, really self-destructive cycle.
And so I met a lot of the people in that sort of scene, like Ryan Gerduski, I know, is very supportive of Joe Kent and other people that are more private, I don't want to name, but they put me on, not just to Joe Kent, but Patrick Witt in Georgia, Gibbs in Michigan, a lot of different people.
And Joe Kent was one of them.
And I had a phone call with Joe Kent and I told him I had my assistant on the phone too, who's Jewish, by the way, just because I want you to know I'm cool like that.
You know, I don't judge.
So I'm on the phone with Joe and I said, look, we support you and we want to do everything we can to help you.
We want to have my followers knock on doors for you.
We want to boost your social media.
Anything that you need, we want to help you.
I said, and we don't even want to be publicly associated.
I said, because we know that that might hurt you.
I said, the only thing that we ask in return is you can't disavow me if the media asks.
And you can say whatever you need to say, but you can't disavow.
And he said, yeah, I totally agree with you because if we start disavowing each other, then we're just going to eat each other alive and the left wins.
We're in agreement.
And a couple months later, Joe tweeted in support of me because I had been banned on all social media.
I was on the no-fly list.
So he said something on Twitter like, you know, Nick Fluent's shouldn't be banned.
He should not be censored.
A month after that, I put out on Twitter, I said, Joe Kent is one of the most impressive America First candidates that's running in 22.
Well, fast forward a whole year later, I do my annual conference, AFPAC, in February 22.
Marjorie Taylor Green attends.
It's uh, we had a thousand two hundred people and it got a lot of media attention.
And I'm driving home because I'm on the no-fly list at this time.
He, like me, has always been committed to separating out like foreign policy views from ethnicity, not because, I mean, obviously I'm denounced as an anti-Semite every day.
So I don't really care what ADL thinks of me, but my Christian faith tells me that there's no such thing as blood guilt and virtue or sin is not inherited.
It's not a feature of DNA.
So every person must be assessed individually as God assesses each person individually.
And that's like a foundational view.
So I always thought it's great to criticize and question like our relationship with Israel because it's insane and it hurts us.
We get nothing out of it.
I completely agree with you there.
But the second you're like, well, actually, it's the Jews.
First of all, it's against my Christian faith.
Like, I just don't believe that and I never will, period.
And second, then it becomes a way to discredit.
That's when I was like, this guy's a Fed.
I was totally convinced you were a Fed because I was like, here he's bear hugging like the one sincere guy who lost his wife in Syria thanks to the fucking crazy wars, neocon wars.
And he's discredited.
He's doing the David Duke.
Like David Duke would always, every time I rolled out a new show, he would issue an endorsement of the show.
Well, and I, I totally agree with you, by the way.
And, um, and that's why I don't take it personally at all.
Like, and I like you.
I've said very positive things about you on my show as well.
I think.
And I know, but I mean to say that my goal is America first.
It's not about me.
It's not about my personality.
It's about winning for America, you know, and by winning, I mean, we want to see our vision realized.
But with Joe, for me, it was very specific that he said inclusive populism.
And I really didn't like that because to me, there were a lot of similar phrases at this time, multiracial working class populism, this kind of stuff.
And I said, you know, on some level, we do need to be exclusive, not inclusive.
We do need to be right wing.
We do need to be Christian.
We do, on some level, need to be pro-white, not to the exclusion of everybody else, but recognizing that white people have a special heritage here as Americans.
And so the reason I opposed him in 22 was not because I was mad, but it was to say America first cannot backslide into this kind of inclusive populism message, which I perceive to be more like GOP slop.
And I'll tell you, when he ran again in 24, I did not oppose him.
I did not oppose him.
And I would have supported him if he had reached out or something like that.
Because for me, it was very political and professional.
I wanted to impose a cost.
If you disavow someone because they criticize Israel, if you disavow someone for talking about white people and Christianity, I said, we can't let that slide because, and you understand why he did it.
Like I don't, on some level, I don't hold it against him in the sense that there is such a strong incentive.
It's easy to say, I disavow all these crazy Christians and all these crazy white nationalists because it buys you wiggle room with people that are attacking you.
It's like easy to throw them under the bus and say, I'm one of the good guys.
And so I said, it's too easy.
We need to push in the other direction and say, you should feel less comfortable saying that people shouldn't talk about their race and religion.
Maybe you'll think twice next time.
And that I, so I did it for a very specific reason.
What I do think is bad, just objectively bad and destructive is the all Jews are guilty or all anybody is guilty of anything, because that's just like not true.
And we don't believe that as Christians.
I mean, my hero in life is Paul, because you call him Saint Paul, Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee.
But I also think there's like a true, not just principle, but like spiritual reality that we have to defend, which is God created every person as an individual, not as a group.
No woman gave birth to a community.
Like we hate that kind of thinking, right?
Collectivist thinking like that.
That's identity politics.
That's what Dave Rubin engages in.
That's why Dave is like a just a child.
Like you don't pay any attention to Dave because he's like shallow.
And, you know, like, and not to be that guy and say that thing, but like my best friend is a Jewish person.
You know, but here, but here's my, I guess here's my substantive disagreement because as a Catholic, I could not agree more with you in what you're saying.
I love all people, even the ones that don't like us.
And especially Aquinas says the Jews are a witness people.
And so they actually have special protections under the law, according to Catholic philosophy.
But I guess my substantive disagreement, which I've said on the show also, is the idea that neoconservatism and Israel has nothing to do with Jewishness, Jewish identity, the Jewish religion, because clearly the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity and their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that.
You know, the plan of greater Israel, the blood and soil nationalism of Israel, it stems from this ethno-religion, which is Judaism.
Well, this is, you know, just BLM, the new version.
This is identity politics.
They're engaging in identity politics.
I mean, that's just so obvious to me.
But the problem in your response, so you're, I mean, I get what you're saying, but the problem in your response is it does not apply to every individual.
Well, I just think it's important to say that not to kind of like dodge the accusations against you.
My best friends are Jewish.
Like, okay, I agree.
Embarrassing, even though it's probably true.
And it's true in my case, actually.
But whatever.
But because just that principle that we're all judged as individuals by what we do, our faith, the decisions that we make, the way we live our lives, and God will judge every one of us in that way.
You just can't have a country of 350 million this diverse where it's just like warring ethnicities because then it's just it's I mean, it's Rwanda soon.
And, you know, the people with the most force just kill the others.
But then like, how do you explain Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz?
And they're a lot like that, John Bolton.
I mean, I've known them all, George W. Bush, like Karl Rove.
I mean, all people I know personally who I've seen like be seized by this brain virus.
And they're not Jewish.
Most of them are self-described Christians.
And then the Christian Zionists who are, well, Christian Zionists.
Like, what is that?
And I can just say for myself, I dislike them more than anybody, you know, because like what?
Because it's Christian heresy.
And I'm offended with that as a Christian.
That's why.
So I don't like, why not?
Like, I'm pissed at the neocons, very pissed.
I've said that a million times.
I've been mad since December of 2003 when I went to Iraq.
And so like I went and hassled or hassled asked straightforward questions to Ted Cruz because that seemed like there's a sitting senator who's like serving for Israel by his own description.
He seemed like a worthy target.
I'm not going after MTG, who's like the most sincere person.
Like, okay, lots of people hurt my, if Dave Rubin called me tonight, which he would never do, though he has my cell, um, and said, you know, I'm really sorry I called you Hitler.
Like, I didn't mean it.
You're raising lots of legitimate questions, which I think I sort of agree with or am thinking about in a deeper way.
And I, we, yeah, I mean, that's like from my perspective, I mean, this is all so stupid and inside baseball and whatever, but for just for the record, I was like, how, who, first of all, who is this kid?
I'm working at Fox News.
I'm, I'm aware there's an internet, but I'm more out of it than you may appreciate.
And I'm like, out of nowhere, attacking this one.
I had Joe Kent to my house and did this interview with him.
And I'm always in search of a sincere politician.
Not don't have to agree on everything, but I really believe sincerity is the whole game.
If someone's heart is pure, he will be brave.
I always have thought that.
And it's turned out to be true.
Marjorie's a perfect example.
And that's all that matters.
If you're afraid inside, if you're weak inside, you will crumble when it matters.
So I really felt like, wow, Joe, I don't agree with him on everything, of course, but I was like, this guy is really sincere.
He's like a good person.
And then you show up and you're like, he's a CIA officer.
And I'm going to, I mean, he was a CIA contractor, but like, really like crush the guy.
I do know, though, and this is the last criticism I will level.
And it's maybe not even your fault, but I do know that, you know, the coordinated attacks against totally reasonable questions about what's in America's interest and what's not.
Those are all coordinated by the Israeli government.
It's all come to light now.
And they're against me.
I've always thought I have the most world's most moderate position on Israel.
Don't hate Israel.
Just don't want to get involved in their wars.
Don't want to pay for this.
Don't want to pay for abortion on demand in a foreign country.
Sorry.
When we're cutting food stamps on our own, like this is outrageous.
It's not America first.
That's my view.
Not embarrassed of it at all.
They are totally determined to take me out.
I think because I'm reasonable.
Who would disagree with that?
And call me all these names, the most dangerous anti-Semite.
I'm not even an anti-Semite.
And they're not doing that to you because this is my view.
And it's not necessarily your fault, but because they're like, Fuentes discredits the reasonable people because he's always banging on about the Jews, the Jews.
And so he makes everyone else look like a Nazi.
And so it's like, he's playing a pretty valuable role in the same way that Israel has always funded extremism throughout the Middle East, including Hamas, because it discredits the reasonable people.
I think it's reality to say that guilt is not inherited.
Blood guilt is bad.
One of the reasons that I'm mad about Gaza is because the Israeli position is everyone who lives in Gaza is a terrorist because of how they were born, including the women and the children.
That's totally incompatible with Christianity and Western civilization.
They say, or the offenders of Western civilization, not with that attitude.
You're not collective punishment.
He's the enemy of Western civilization.
Yeah.
And so I hate that attitude.
It's genocidal.
The current claims that I'm a cancer, you know, from Ben Shapiro or whatever, we need to be excised from the body of conservatism is a genocidal position that it basically encourages violence, as they well know.
The whole thing I hate.
So like anytime you say a whole group of people is responsible for the sins of some of its members, like I'm out.
Well, and listen, I mean, and I appreciate you saying that because it's, that's just the reality of the media environment we're in.
So if you, I don't expect you to know all my views.
But I mean, as far as the Jews are concerned, I think that, like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all those things that you talk about from Jewishness, ethnicity, religion, identity.
And let me give you like a perfect example.
So you say on your show that we need to treat Israel like any other country.
And I sort of understand that in principle because Israel is another foreign country.
Yeah.
But Israel is unlike every other country in the sense that because the Jewish people are in a diaspora all over the world, there are significant numbers of Jews in Europe, but also in the United States.
And because of their unique heritage and story, which is that they're a stateless people, they're unassimilable.
They resist assimilation for thousands of years.
And I think that's a good thing.
And now they have this territory in Israel.
There's a deep religious affection for the state.
It's bound up in their identity, the story of the exodus from Egypt, the promise of the land, all these things.
So let's say in the United States, for example, somebody like Ishelden Adelson, he's not Israeli.
Is he an ideological neocon?
Does he believe in the promise of democratic globalism?
I don't think necessarily.
His heart is in Israel.
And it's because he is a proud Jewish person.
And I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a Jewish person in America, you're sort of, and again, it's not because they're born, but it's sort of a rational self-interest politically to say, I'm a minority.
I'm a religious ethnic minority.
This is not really my home.
My ancestral home is in Israel.
There's like a natural affinity that Jews have for Israel.
And I would say on top of that, for the international Jewish community, they're extremely organized.
And many of them are critical of Israel or Israel's current government or the project of Israel.
But I guess what they have in common, unlike, let's say, like Singapore, for example, is that they have this international community across borders, extremely organized, that is putting the interests of themselves before the interests of their home country.
And there's like, there's no other country that has a similar arrangement like that.
No other country has a strong identity like that, this religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless, wandering, persecuted.
And in particular, the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans.
They hate the Romans because the Romans destroyed the temple.
That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the Arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture.
We don't think like that as Americans and white people.
We don't think about the Roman Empire and 2,000 years ago.
They do.
And so I guess that's really, and I don't think that's me saying the Jews, the Jews, the Jews.
I don't think that's me being hateful.
I don't think that's me being collectivist.
I think that's understanding that identity politics, whether you love it or hate it, whatever you feel about it, it's a reality that we live in a world of Jews and Christians, of whites and blacks.
These identities mean something to us and they mean things to each other.
And we can't sort of wish them away.
And it feels like white people and Christians are the only ones that do that.
There's no question about that, your last point, for sure.
One of the reasons they do that is because they've been taught to hate themselves, of course, since the Second World War.
Another reason is, however, the reality of a multi-ethnic country requires you to sort of set aside community or group interests in favor of corporate interests, universal interests, national interests.
And you have to do that or else it doesn't work.
And so, you know, I agree those attitudes.
I mean, certainly in other parts of the world, people think this way, but you can't have that here.
And so it's just important to remind everybody that, yeah, you know, things may be generally true, but like, again, they're not always true.
And there are people who just strongly disagree.
And by the way, in the specific case of Israel, there are a ton of Orthodox who I know who are opposed to the state of Israel.
They're just Jewish.
They're more Jewish than Dave Rubin, a lot more.
And yet they oppose it.
Jeff Sachs is like the most wonderful man, the most Jewish, the most articulate kind of critic of the state of Israel that I'm aware of.
So like, I don't know, that's just meaningful.
You can't, if it's, if everything is inherited, then there's no hope for the continuation of America.
Well, that's just, that's an easy one, but I am much more comfortable as a Christian and an American keeping it on that level because, you know, it's easy to just set rules that universal rules that apply to everyone, not just the Jews or the Christians or anybody, just like Americans can only serve in the U.S. military or they lose their passport.
Why not make every statement about how Americans ought to behave applicable to all Americans?
Like it's the defense of universal values that will hold the country together and the emphasis on proclaimer group values that will break it apart inevitably.
What I would like is for the U.S. government to not be influenced by these kinds of foreign allegiances, not with money that comes from, you know, American citizens like Sheldon Adelson, not from foreign lobbyists.
So, I mean, in terms of tangible things, I don't think we disagree on any of it, like registering AIPAC and FARA, banning dual citizenship.
And I know people on our side are afraid to talk about it because they know, like you said, they're going to get called a cuck or a squish or whatever.
And I agree with you.
The people that are detracting from that need to be called out.
And I think there should be no harbor for cruelty, hatred, prejudice, those kinds of things.
And some of them, I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut.
I really try not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing, you know.
But after January 6th and just finding out the number of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like, and I've just seen this, David Duke is a great example.
Some of these are the Charlottesville rally had a bunch of feds there being like, we're white supremacists.
We hate the blacks.
You know, using the N-word, whatever.
You know, it's like, that's not real.
Like, there is some of that going on, don't you think?
And some of them are legitimately, they see the opening that there's legitimate critique of this and they see an opening to air out their grievances.
They get a license to, they think it's okay now.
And I do think it's important to differentiate and say that fundamentally, I guess the word that I would use, I've been thinking about this a lot lately is reassurance because I think there's a legitimate, there is a legitimate need to reassure people.
And this is kind of what I've been doing on these podcasts that we don't want to harm anybody.
We don't want to kill anybody.
We don't want to harm anybody.
We just want to put America first.
And I guess, you know, to the extent that I've been taken out of context over the years or things like that, I'm trying to set the record straight and say, you know, and I appreciate you've given me this opportunity.
Well, he's a great, he's a good guy, fundamentally.
He's a very warm guy.
So he was asking everybody, you know, what's up and who are you?
And we got to talking.
And, you know, I guess it was going too well because I was being very complimentary of Trump.
And Ye was kind of kicking me and saying, like, you know, a couple of days prior, we were talking about if Trump and Ye wind up on the debate stage, what is that going to look like?
And I was coaching Ye, like, these are his weak areas.
Like, this is where we got to attack Trump.
And so Ye was like, tell him what you were saying the other day.
Tell him what you were saying last night.
And I was like, dude, that's our playbook.
Like, we don't want to blow up our.
And Trump was like, go ahead, don't be bashful.
Tell me, what is it?
And I said, you know what?
I said, I said, I think you're one of the greatest living Americans.
I said, I'm a young guy.
I said, I really have nothing to say other than thank you.
I have nothing but gratitude for what you've done for the country.
I said, it's really not my place, you know, to give you advice or correct you.
And he said, no, no, don't be bashful.
Tell me.
And the story that I brought up was, this was really what sent me in the first Fox News debate in 2015 in the Republican primary.
And Trump raised his hand because that's what he was saying.
He said, you know, if I don't win, I'll run independent and I'll make Republicans lose.
And so I brought that up and I told that story and I said, you know, I said, I feel like what was inspiring in 16 is that you were willing to let the Republican establishment lose.
Like you were serious about blowing them up such that you were not going to say, like Pat Buchanan, who I respect, but Sam Francis acknowledged that was one of his great mistakes was ultimately endorsing Bush.
I said, you, it showed you were serious.
You were playing to win because you said, I will let this Republican party crash and burn.
I want to run as the Republican, but if I can't, I'll run independent.
I said, and that's how I knew you were serious.
And that's how I knew you were the guy.
I said, and I feel like lately, this was right after Ronna McDaniel became the head of the RNC again.
I was like, I feel like lately, you're just behind all these people.
I said, we're not here for Kevin McCarthy.
We're not here for Rhana McDaniel or Mitch McConnell.
I said, we are here for you.
Like, we will die for you.
We are loyal to you.
I said, and when you did that, that showed you could win.
And we rallied.
I said, so I want to see more like that.
I want to see you hit DeSantis, let's say, who is running against him.
And he was like, oh, okay.
He goes, oh, so you like that?
It was right after he called him DeSanctimonious.
I said, that was awesome.
You should have kept hitting him.
He's like, oh, you like that.
He goes, this guy's hardcore.
I like this guy he was saying about me.
And so I was trying to just get like get his mojo back, you know, and, you know, gas him up a little bit.
Let me ask you, I referred earlier to the assassination attempt against you, and it's very fashionable among the permanent victim class.
Like every BLM leader was, oh, they're trying to kill me or Seth, whatever from the Babylon B. People are trying to kill me.
And people use threats against them, which are like daily for a lot of us, as a way to kind of make themselves unassailable or immune from criticism or to attack their enemies.
Your words inspired violence.
What is stochastic terrorist?
I can't even pronounce it.
You know, it's like some academic term, whatever.
But you had a real assassination attempt, like an actual one, which got no publicity that I recall.
Well, you know, it was after the election last year.
I put out this tweet and I said, your body, my choice on election night.
And, you know, I wasn't, look, I'm not going to apologize for it, but I thought it was like a weak, it's like a lame joke.
It's kind of like the most obvious term phrase.
So I wasn't, I had other good jokes that night, but that was like the one that caught on because I just think it captured the imagination of liberals who were like, it's over for us, which it kind of is, you know, but in some ways.
But so I put that out there.
I didn't even vote for Trump, but I put that tweet out.
So the election Tuesday, obviously, it was like Thursday that my address starts blowing up.
I was going to do a show Friday and someone shows up to my house.
Some weird looking guy shows up to my house and just walks through the yard, walks through the gangway into the backyard and is just circling my house and then goes away.
So we call the cops, me and my producer, and we said, maybe we shouldn't do a show tonight.
And that weekend, we hired private security just for the weekend.
And finally, I go out in the morning and I asked the guy, okay, what happened?
He told me the story.
And so it turns out that it's this young guy.
He's 23 years old, white nerd, short guy.
He was at U of I, University of Illinois in Urbana, Champaign, about two hours south of where I live.
He killed three people earlier in the day.
He went to his roommate's house, college roommate's house, killed his roommate, killed the sister, the guy's mother, got in his car and drove directly to my house, parked outside my house, got out a 22 pistol and an automatic crossbow.
Weird choice.
And he knocked on the door, which is where I saw him.
He went around the house.
He tried, he tried the back door, tried the front door.
And the cops pulled up.
He took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, ran into the neighbor's house.
I guess he went into the neighbor's basement because the door was unlocked.
He was hiding from the police.
He shot two of their dogs, which is devastating.
He runs back outside and the cops see him.
He shoots at the cops.
The cops shot him in the face and he dies on the spot.
No, because I really believe that when you look at all these things, and by these things, I mean these like really disturbing instances of violence like Luigi Mangion or Charlie Kirk or these school shootings, there is something going on with these kids.
It's nihilism.
It's these people that are maybe mentally defective, extremely online.
I think there's like a real problem there.
And I don't doubt that sometimes these people are involved with maybe a foreign government or they're being groomed or put up to it by an operative.
But I think to assume that it's always that ignores that like there's a very real problem of nihilistic surrealist violence that comes from young people.
And, you know, like this guy killed, it's a triple homicide out of nowhere.
It's always somebody that is a loner, socially dislocated or socially dysfunctional.
You know, they don't have many real life friends, engage in real life activities, slip through the cracks.
That's always how it starts.
Then they get into either they're medicated by a therapist with SSRIs or they self-medicate, which is extremely common with alcohol, weed, which is extremely potent now.
And you could get THC from like a vape pen.
So it's very powerful, very accessible.
You know, when I was in high school, my stoner friends would have to like go on a walk to the park and roll a joint.
Now with the vape, you can hit that anywhere, I guess.
And then I think they get into psychedelics like LSD or MDMA.
And I think Those things induce psychosis, these psychoactive drugs, whether it's marijuana by itself or it's LSD, I think they tend to induce psychosis and exacerbate those like existing problems.
And basically, what happens, I would say that that is maybe the next step.
And then the other ingredient that's always there is although they don't have a social life in the real world, they have a social life on the internet.
And so they're deeply involved in obscure internet forums, Discord, gaming communities.
Increasingly, chat GPT is inducing psychosis.
People talk to ChatGPT all day, all night.
And you basically have between the three of these things, they kind of go into like a different world between the psychoactive substances, the make-believe reality of the internet, totally disconnected from the real world.
I think they enter into like this delusional state.
And I think that's where that shooter in Minneapolis, I think that's what that was.
I think if Tyler Robinson is found guilty, there's been some interesting screenshots about him and his transgender boyfriend.
It's the same story there, if that's true.
And I would imagine it was not dissimilar with the guy that showed up and tried to kill me.
I think those are always the ingredients that produce that kind of violence.
Well, this is another thing where it's reality distortion.
That's kind of the theme.
Just like psychedelics distort reality, just like a kind of internet society is a form of delusion.
So is porn in the sense that, you know, a lot of people maybe don't realize, and we talked about this a little bit, people are getting turned on to porn when they're like 10 years old.
And when you are going through puberty, when you're developing your sexual faculties, how could you stay away from that?
Every kid has a phone.
Every kid has an iPad and every iPad and phone is, if you, you know, if you know what it is, loaded up with porn.
And it's infinite and it's ubiquitous.
And you can get every kind of it you want whenever you want.
It's in your pocket.
And so something that is almost never talked about is that this is a generation that's totally sexually dysfunctional, I think, because of pornography.
And some people are able to cope with it.
Some people don't have a problem.
But I think a lot of people and maybe even a small minority have a serious problem with it.
I think that it's impossible for a real woman to compete with the availability and the novelty of pornography.
A real woman, you know, like without getting graphic, is she's only one person.
And, you know, she's maybe she wants to do something sexual.
Maybe she doesn't.
Porn is, you could have a hundred different women in one sitting doing anything that whatever, whatever niche or idiosyncratic thing a person might be into, it's there.
And so I think that novelty combined with that availability, it makes it so that, you know, when you think about courting a woman, juice isn't worth the squeeze.
And so there's like also a problem of like erectile dysfunction, people that can't enjoy regular sex because it does not compare to the intensity, the novelty, and the availability of porn.
It's hyper stimulation.
And so I think that's sabotaging a lot of normal sexual relationships.
And, you know, if you're doing that multiple times a day, every day for years since you're a kid, well, eventually you get bored and you want to move on to something more extreme.
And you're kind of, it operates, I think, similar to like a drug.
You kind of have the same kind of resistance to it that you would to a drug or a tolerance for it.
And you're always chasing that initial feeling the first time you used it or the first time you saw a certain thing.
And I think eventually you just chase more taboo, more transgressive.
And I think maybe some people are more prone to that than other people going in this really extreme direction.
And there's something too about what it does when you look at it.
Because people don't realize that it is a fundamentally different experience being involved in intercourse versus watching other people have intercourse.
And I think that, you know, one of the theories for that is you watch a man having sex with a woman that isn't you so much, you kind of achieve an identity with the woman in like a weird sick way.
You almost identify with the woman.
And so there's weird things that happen when you're watching that and having such strong emotional and sexual experiences with it.
It's become so destigmatized for women to actually participate in porn.
Only people don't even recognize that OnlyFans is a whole separate category.
It's a new, it's an innovation in the realm of pornography because you have what everyone considers what everyone knows as porn, which is like videos of porn stars, like dedicated career sex workers having sex in a relatively controlled environment or something like that.
But then you get OnlyFans, which is like Patreon for nudes or sex.
And basically, there's now a very large subculture, much larger than people want to admit, of women who the moment they turn 18, that is what they do is they make an OnlyFans account and they become an amateur porn star.
And it is completely casual, you know, because you could say that maybe 10 years ago, even at the heyday of internet porn, to be in porn, you got to be a porn star.
Like that's your life and that's your career and that's who you are.
And it's very shameful.
With OnlyFans, it's like, it's like having a TikTok.
Like if a candidate were to come out and say, we ought to arrest the guys who own MindGeek, which is the biggest, I think it's the biggest porn supplier in the world or the guys who run OnlyFans.
What would the reaction be among, I don't know, people under 50?
Their sense of their own looks and sexual value is very inflated.
And so a lot of people are looking at these like frumpy, obnoxious, loudmouth, liberal women who are also very promiscuous and saying, this is not actually appealing at all.
And I don't, I don't want to start a family with a person.
They're at war with the system and not even just the system, but also society.
Because let's say you find one of these so-called good girls who's Christian and traditional, but through osmosis, wherever you go, she's going to be in society.
She's going to be on TikTok.
She's going to be on Instagram.
She's going to be talking to other women.
And maybe she's one way when you meet and get married, but 10 years down the road, 15 years, 20 years down the road, people change.
And I think that women as kind of the ultimate conformists, the ultimate enforcers of like social norms, I think eventually the pressure from society kind of gets to them.
I think that that could be a bottomless pit, too, because the one critique I have of the men is, and you're right about this, they enable this behavior.
You know, if you are held, if the buck stops with you and you're to blame and you're the responsible one, then you also need to be able to have the final say and call the shots.
And I think that I think that's really smart and absolutely right.
I do think I've just noticed this, that men who stay unmarried for too long become like kind of fragile.
There's something about the give and take, there's something about living with, in fact, I think it's the key to life, someone you don't fully understand that broadens you, that keeps you always thinking, that makes you wiser, more patient, more thoughtful, more self-aware, and more flexible.
And those are all good qualities.
And the absence of that, like in homosexuality or like men who are single too long, they get very rigid.
I mean, no one's more simple than I am, but we're all pretty simple.
But what I mean is like on a day-to-day level of experience, like you don't always understand what they're saying because it's never about what they say it's about.
I, I, I personally find women very frustrating when they are not expressing.
And I just see that as the beauty of it.
I see the way I look at it is like when you look at your favorite TV shows, right?
The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, it's like the wife is the villain because it's like the main character, if the wife could just get out of the way, would be running the show.
And that's kind of how I feel.
Like Ayn Rand, I agree with her about this.
She said that the wife's role is like hero worship.
The guy is the hero.
The guy is supposed to be the entrepreneur, the conqueror, whatever.
And the woman is really supposed to support the man's goals and be in his world.
And I think that, you know, speaking as maybe from a different generation, the way that men feel now is like, you know, women are not really providing too much.
They expect so much from the men.
They want to, they want the man to be rich and provide.
They want the man to be fit and a real leader and a real man.
They also want to split the chores with the man.
They want the man to do half the laundry and half the dishes and things like that.
And it's like, so what do you do all day?
You're on TikTok.
You're like doom scrolling and eating Cheetos?
Like, what, what actually are you providing in the relationship?
So I just feel like in terms of the deficit, it's like women are very emboldened.
They're, they're too, I think, assertive, always giving their opinions, always critiquing, always, you know, I think that they're very bold right now and I think, and sarcastic.
I think that's a big reason why they're not very attractive.
And I saw that and said, yeah, like there's no putting the genie back in the lamp here.
That was one.
The other thing I'm really worried about is what's happening at these ICE detention centers, where it's happening not far from where I live in Broadview, Illinois, where they set up an ICE detention facility and the administration is rounding these people up, which I support, but they're doing it in a very provocative way.
They're broadcasting it.
They're making hype edits on Twitter of like these raids on apartment complexes, which I think are very cool, but it's somewhat provocative.
An Antifa showing up.
In order to protect ICE, the administration's putting DHS.
Well, now they're protesting the DHS presence and the administration of the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago are telling Chicago police, don't help ICE.
And they're encouraging the protesters.
And what I see there is like a level of tension that just keeps increasing.
And there's leadership.
There's civilian leadership on both sides, like the governor and mayor who are Democrats won't back down versus a Republican president.
There's a security division too, the police versus ICE, the police versus DHS.
There's a constitutional question about the federal supremacy.
And I see all the ingredients of like a low-boil civil conflict, full-blown civil war.
And I'm not that guy, but I see all the ingredients that for that to happen.
I think maybe this is controversial, but they have to crush the other side.
They have to, because you can do one of two things.
You cannot challenge the left and let them do their thing, or you can utterly confront them and defeat them and remove hope from the equation.
If you resist, you will be arrested.
Like we're just, this is an insurrection.
There's 10 million people here illegally.
We're getting them out.
You're rioting.
You're going to jail too.
Like it has to be crushed.
But if you do anything less than that, if you do in the middle, all you're doing is antagonizing and feeding the other side.
And if they think there's a chance they can win, they will get bolder and stronger and they'll start to rally.
And that's when it's sort of like people think it's close or like it's contentious.
That's when it breathes.
That's when oxygen is fed to this kind of fire.
So if I were Trump, I would say, screw 200 National Guard, like arrest the mayor of Chicago, like arrest the governor, shut it down, like make it clear.
Like Washington, you know, bring in the troops and say the federal government is supreme.
The immigration law is the law of the land.
If you're not on board with that, you're going to jail.
If you attack ICE or box them in with your car, you're going to jail for a long time.
Anything less than that, you might as well just not even bark up that tree at all.
A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event.
How do you know there would be an event to document in the first place?
Because he had foreknowledge.
And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9-11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks.
They made money on the 9-11 attacks because they knew they were coming.