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May 14, 2024 - The Tucker Carlson Show
02:16:26
Tucker Carlson - Aaron Rodgers
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a
aaron rodgers
01:36:53
t
tucker carlson
36:24
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jimmy kimmel
00:09
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Good to see ya!
tucker carlson
Did you make it back?
aaron rodgers
Back where?
tucker carlson
Back to your hotel.
How did that happen?
I left him last night in the cold.
aaron rodgers
I just hitchhiked.
He was a nice person.
unidentified
Did you search him?
aaron rodgers
No.
I know that name right there.
I know that signature anywhere.
unidentified
Who is that?
aaron rodgers
Brett Favre.
tucker carlson
How did you know that?
aaron rodgers
Because I played with him.
unidentified
I know that signature.
tucker carlson
We've never done anything in here before.
This is actually our dining room table, as you know.
You had dinner here last night.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
You cleared a bunch of stuff out though, right?
tucker carlson
We just moved the chairs out.
But we actually, I mean, this is our family dining room.
And I just thought, I don't want to be in a studio anymore.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
Studio is right there.
tucker carlson
Studio is right there.
It's like tiny and there's something.
I've been in it my whole life.
All right, let me just, I just got to ask you about this.
This is like, thank you for dinner last time, by the way.
aaron rodgers
Thank you.
tucker carlson
That was amazing.
aaron rodgers
That was really special.
tucker carlson
I don't know how you got home.
It was like, that was pretty funny.
aaron rodgers
I had a right.
Lexi got me right.
tucker carlson
Oh, you're wandering around in a t-shirt in the freezing cold.
Okay, this is just, I just, okay, so I asked him to pull a bunch of news stories.
I've been a little bit out of it.
This is from The Guardian.
Scientists have created a vaccine that has the potential to protect against a broad range of coronaviruses, including varieties not yet known about.
The experimental shot, which has been tested in mice.
So it's a vaccine that doesn't protect you against anything specific, but just against kind of like everything that might happen to you.
aaron rodgers
Supposedly, yeah.
tucker carlson
Just leaving the science aside, but as a pure kind of like marketing question.
I'm going to see who makes this.
I guess they're all the same, but some company makes this.
If you're the company making this, do you really think people are going to be up at this point for a vaccine that just has no real purpose, but just kind of for the sake of a vaccine?
aaron rodgers
Today?
tucker carlson
Yeah, today.
aaron rodgers
No, I don't think so.
tucker carlson
Do you think a single person will buy that?
aaron rodgers
Yeah, for sure.
There'll be some people.
There's just so much fear still.
I mean, people...
Yeah, people are scared still.
I think there's a swath of the population.
There's still people driving around in masks.
tucker carlson
Yeah.
No, that's true.
And I try not to be judgmental because I think, of course, I'm very judgmental.
I think they're mentally ill.
But then I feel, you know, I've known a lot, I've had friends, family members who are mentally ill.
So I try to think, you know, I should feel compassion for them.
aaron rodgers
I have a lot more compassion for them, actually.
tucker carlson
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
And empathy.
And I've been strong against the VAX, against mandates, against lockdowns, against all of it.
I think the last few months I've been looking at things a little bit differently, and I think it's time for a lot of us to...
To maybe adjust some of the approach that we're doing.
I mean, it obviously hasn't worked.
We've been trying to wake people up, I think, with the studies that are out there now.
tucker carlson
Exactly.
With the science.
aaron rodgers
All the time.
With the articles, with the change in stances by everybody from Chris Cuomo on down who have either had vaccine injuries or side effects or just look at things differently.
And it's caused me to, I think, have a little bit more empathy and compassion for those people who had a ton of fear, thought they were doing the right thing for themselves, for their friends, for their families, and went through.
All the mass formation psychosis that we all did.
It's just full-court propaganda against us and are now going, oh, shit, maybe that wasn't the best.
Maybe they lied to us.
Maybe they weren't being truthful.
Maybe this wasn't safe, even though they said from the beginning 100% safe and effective.
Everybody from Biden to the head of the FDA and CDC on down, WHO. So I think it's important for us to...
If we want to make a difference, which I do, and I don't necessarily want to be way a part of the conversation anymore, is how do we call people forward with compassion and kindness that just come over to the side of being awake to what's going on?
Because I think we all need to come to the grips that this could happen again.
tucker carlson
Well, I think people are, you know, most people took the vax, obviously, and What would that feel like if you had that in your body?
I mean, it's like the horror movie.
It's coming from inside the house.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
I mean, if you had taken the Vax, how would you feel right now?
You'd be worried.
aaron rodgers
I would be worried for sure.
And then if I was so staunchly for it, and now I'm realizing, oh.
I might have endangered myself, my loved ones, my kids, if you force it upon kids like they did.
The powers that be pushed it towards all different ages.
The studies just came out about pregnant women where 44% of the women in the study had miscarriages who were given the vaccine.
It's like there's a lot of crazy research that's out right now that would make people feel a lot of shame, I think, and guilt.
And I grew up kind of in that culture in a different way.
tucker carlson
So now you're on it.
aaron rodgers
It's shame and guilt.
Yeah, that was a part of everyday life was those two feelings.
And that's a tough way to live.
So how do we call these people forward to like...
In love and acceptance.
Not forgetting what happened, how we were treated, how we were canceled.
I mean, everybody from yourself to me, the Joe to mutual friends that we have.
But calling people forward to step into the truth.
And that there isn't shame and guilt on this side.
Which I think our side, justifiably at times, because of the way we were treated, feels...
Feels like we need to kind of get some get back.
tucker carlson
I totally agree with you.
aaron rodgers
But at some point, I was talking with Joe about this, kind of off camera at Rogan, but how do we kind of bring everybody back on the same side?
Because this has been very divisive, and everything in our culture now is so divisive.
Yes.
But how do we...
Get people more aligned on the same page.
And I think it's only with love and compassion and forgiveness.
And I admit, I've been very combative about this because I was attacked personally.
A lot of times when you're attacked, you want to just fucking fight back.
tucker carlson
I have been too.
I agree.
aaron rodgers
Of course.
But it hasn't really accomplished what I want to accomplish.
In my mind, my ego is like, well, I'm going to be able to convince these people that they were wrong.
tucker carlson
And you throw the science back at them and you think somehow...
That's going to matter?
People who talk about science all day actually care about science?
Not at all.
Of course.
It has no effect.
aaron rodgers
How has it been for you?
Because you were one of the first to talk about it all the time on Fox.
And actually, that's what made me tune in every night.
It was like, what's Doug going to say to me?
tucker carlson
They didn't want me to do that.
aaron rodgers
But there was obviously some cancelization, some shaming.
I'm sure that may not have been why they let you go, but there was a lot of people who were...
tucker carlson
It was a sign of disobedience.
And by the way, I didn't want to be disobedient, actually.
I didn't want to fight about the facts at all.
I never...
aaron rodgers
But you had all the people that ended up going on Rogan.
You had Robert Malone on there.
You had Andrew Kirsch.
You had Pierre Corey.
You had Peter McCullough.
Right?
I mean, all these people in the beginning...
tucker carlson
Yeah, right away, because I just had a different understanding.
aaron rodgers
And the doctor from Stanford as well.
tucker carlson
Of course.
I had a different understanding of science, which was that it's not a set of facts.
It's a process.
It's a way of thinking.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
And it needs to be questioned.
tucker carlson
That's the whole point of science.
aaron rodgers
Otherwise, it's propaganda.
tucker carlson
It's an unending series of questions.
We think we know this.
How do we know?
It's not so different from what journalism used to be, which is like a process of...
It's a process.
It's a way of thinking.
It's skepticism, polite, reasonable skepticism.
It's rooted in reason, though, in the belief that we can get to the truth or closer to the truth using logic.
And that was just abandoned immediately.
That was the tell for me.
I know nothing about vaccines.
I still don't really know much about vaccines, but I know a lot about people.
And I saw people saying things like, just shut up and do it because it's science.
And then I thought, well, that's the opposite of science.
And I also got a very sinister vibe.
Right away.
Just on my gut level.
I was like, I don't know what this is.
I'm not doing that.
And neither is my family.
But the weird thing is, that's why I so appreciate what you just said, is I don't really know that many people who got vaxxed.
I don't live in a vaxxed world at all.
My kind of people, given where I live and the people I like and how I spend my free time, they're not the people who got the vaxxed.
So I don't spend really any time with people who would defend that.
And I think I need to think much more about it.
And realize all of us live in our own tiny little worlds, and we think we're mainstream, but we're not.
aaron rodgers
And through the algorithm, we're in an echo chamber, whether we want to be or not.
unidentified
That's exactly right.
aaron rodgers
Because that's what we're seeing.
tucker carlson
No, it's totally right.
Someone said to me the other day, maybe it was you, do you know anyone who didn't get the vax who's upset he didn't get the vax?
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
Does anyone regret that decision?
aaron rodgers
No.
tucker carlson
No.
Right.
Not one person ever.
But people who did get the vax really, which is why I love what you said.
I think they do regret it.
And I think that when you're doing something wrong, you're very defensive about it.
I used to smoke cigarettes, and they tried to make me feel shame for smoking cigarettes, and I would always smoke a cigarette in public.
Like, yeah, I'm smoking a cigarette.
Because I sort of knew you shouldn't smoke cigarettes.
It's not good for you.
But I got my hackles up, and I was more aggressive.
Would you like a cigarette?
Would your child like a cigarette?
unidentified
I mean, I sort of wound up being that way.
tucker carlson
Because I knew what I was doing was wrong.
And don't you feel like that's part of what's going on here?
aaron rodgers
I think there's a big swath that's like that.
There's the other swath that goes, I did this because you told me to do this, and this was mandated.
And now you're walking back all those things you said to me back then.
Now there's some anger.
So there's the whole population that's like, I'm going to keep doing this, and I'm going to wear my mask in public, and I'm going to get another booster in your fucking face, right?
And then there's the other group that's like, I know I did this to keep my job.
To keep from being canceled?
To keep you off my back?
And now you're going to walk back and say you didn't say it was safe and effective and you didn't say I wouldn't get or I wouldn't acquire or transmit COVID? What do you mean?
Now you're changing history.
That's the only reason I got it.
You said this is the only way to be safe and there was no side effects?
That was all stuff that was said.
And there's videos out there you can check.
So there's that side of the population that's like, hold the fuck on.
You said all this stuff.
Now you're walking this back.
tucker carlson
That's how I feel.
aaron rodgers
And then there's the other set that doesn't want to engage at all, that did it and now has a lot of fear around it, a lot of shame around it.
And so I think two of those three groups of people...
We can kind of bring in.
There's compassion and kindness.
There's compassion and kindness for the person that's still wearing a mask too.
tucker carlson
Especially that person.
aaron rodgers
And I can't relate to that type of fear.
But I understand what it's like to be scared of things.
And just the fear to feel like you still have to do that.
That's a really shitty place to live.
So showing compassion and kindness.
And it's easy to make fun of those type of people when you're on the way other side.
But what does that actually accomplish?
If we want to come together more.
And look, I'm guilty of it at times, for sure.
But I'm tired of that.
I don't want to be a part of that anymore.
I want to be a part of bringing people together.
tucker carlson
I so strongly agree with that.
When was the last time you saw a national leader try and calm people down about anything, ever?
No.
I would love it if somebody in elected office or with a lot of influence nationally were to stand up and say, let's start with what we know.
We're all going to die.
Probably terrified and alone.
We know we're going there.
So in light of that, why are we afraid of anything, actually, given that our fates are all sealed?
Like, doesn't that liberate us?
aaron rodgers
I think so, and I think that's a great place to be.
You know, like, when you step into this, you personally, when I'm talking about you, when you stepped into this realm, you know, you were the number one anchor at the number one show nightly.
And the stuff you were taking on, and then the way that you were ousted there, and then you go to X, and you're the fucking, you know, the interviews you're doing, the numbers you're going, then you go and interview Putin.
Like, you're putting yourself in harm's way.
I commend you just like I commend Bobby Kennedy because there's, Bobby said recently, there's a lot worse things than dying.
tucker carlson
That's for sure.
aaron rodgers
And I commend you as I commend Bobby.
There's something to standing up for what you believe in and doing your job.
You're doing old school, I hate to say it, but old school journalism where you're just talking to people.
tucker carlson
I am old.
unidentified
I am old all of a sudden.
aaron rodgers
But when you go into that, it's just to piggyback off what you just said.
I don't know this personally, but I know that you must have a relationship with death where you realize that it's inevitable and, you know, I'd rather, like, live the way I want to live, stand for what I believe in, than, like, live in the fear that something could happen to me.
tucker carlson
Well, I'd rather be a free man in my grave.
So, of course, yeah, and by the way, I have the massive advantage of having grown children, so when you have little kids at home, and I... I haven't had a very adventurous or dangerous life, but a couple times.
One time in particular, I was pretty sure I was going to die, and I had little kids at home.
And I was in a plane crash, and I remember as it was going down, I was like, oh my gosh, they're not going to thrive if I die.
I mean, that really terrified me.
But now that they're grown, it's like, I am going to die.
So this we know, and I meditate on that a lot.
I don't think it's morbid.
I think it's liberating.
So then you realize, what are you going to do to me?
I'm not afraid at all.
And I mean that.
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So, the people who...
Got the vaccine, don't want to talk about it because they feel shame.
I get it.
The people who went along with it because they really believed it and now are starting to realize, oh gosh, I was misled, but I can't admit that because it makes me look like an asshole, weak, like a follower.
I understand that too.
The people who called for the death of the unvaccinated, that's kind of the category that's harder for me.
People like Jimmy Kimmel, for example.
Who famously said...
aaron rodgers
Sean Penn as well.
tucker carlson
And Sean Penn as well.
Who I know, actually, and sort of like.
But what...
I like him less after hearing that.
How do you treat people like that, who wanted you to die?
jimmy kimmel
Dr. Fauci said that if hospitals get any more overcrowded, they're going to have to make some very tough choices about who gets an ICU. But that choice doesn't seem so tough to me.
unidentified
Vaccinated person having a heart attack?
tucker carlson
Yes, come right on in.
unidentified
We'll take care of you.
tucker carlson
Unvaccinated guy who gobbled horse goo?
Rest in peace, Wheezy.
aaron rodgers
I think you've framed that in the right place.
There's a great mash-up that Rogan talked about a few times where there's all these different shows and it said, brought to you by Pfizer.
Anderson Cooper, brought to you by Pfizer.
I think you have to realize that there's...
It's all about the money.
And as you get into this, you read Bobby's book about the real Anthony Fauci, you realize if you want to know what's really going on, not just in big pharma, but in government, is follow the money.
And even in the NFL, I mean, there was a strong push.
They sent stooges out to every team to try and enforce a vaccination level above 90% of every team with zero exemption, with zero informed consent.
Just get this so that we look good because...
Big Pharma ad spend is humongous, not just on the late night shows.
It obviously influences Hollywood, the NFL. So you have to understand who is actually putting the strings in it.
tucker carlson
I was talking to a Navy SEAL friend of mine the other day who just got out of the Navy.
And like professional athletes, I mean, these are the last people who needed the VACs.
And so there was this intense push to make them all get the VACs.
He left the Navy over it.
But he said most of his friends on the SEAL team he was on.
Did not get the vax.
They got fake vax cards.
Because they knew they were very in touch with their physical health.
Their SEALs, not so different from an NFL player.
How many NFL players actually got the vax?
Do you have any idea?
aaron rodgers
I don't have any idea.
I'm sure that there was plenty who got fake cards.
I feel like there's a base level of hesitancy around just the...
Big Pharma, Madison in general, when you're black.
tucker carlson
Well, I was about to say, it's like 70% black.
To their great credit, a lot of black guys are like, no way.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, and based on the history, I think it's warranted.
tucker carlson
Totally fair.
aaron rodgers
If you know any of the history about some of the human experiments that went on and ridiculous things in some of those communities.
If you know about what's gone on in foreign countries as well with some of these vaccines, predominantly...
Places like Africa, where people have been maimed and killed and paralyzed by these vaccines, many of which are not actually approved anymore in the States, get sent over to Africa.
Again, that's a reference to something that Bobby talked about in his book about Fauci.
There's a lot of interesting chapters around that.
So on a base level, there was a lot of hesitancy, like, I don't think this is, I'm going to do this.
But in the NFL, it was like, if you're working, For a team, there was no choice.
It was get faxed.
If you're a player, there was a choice.
But if you chose not to get it, then you had a whole different set of rules.
You had to wear a different colored armband.
You couldn't go to a restaurant.
You couldn't spend time at somebody's house and when three people were there.
You couldn't go anywhere on the road.
You had to test every single morning and not enter the building until you got a negative back.
That all went away.
Once the playoffs happened, because of course they didn't want to ruin the money at that point, and all the testing went away.
tucker carlson
Oh, there was a playoff exemption for the disease?
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
I gotta ask, if they're making you wear a colored piece of clothing, since all of us grew up in the United States where World War II is the only historical event we learn about, forcing a small despised minority to identify itself with a yellow piece of clothing?
It seems kind of resonant.
Did anyone at the NFL say maybe not a good idea to force people to wear yellow armbands if they weren't vaxxed?
aaron rodgers
I don't think they cared.
I don't think they cared.
I think they just wanted to hit their numbers.
tucker carlson
So we look like Nazis, but we don't care.
aaron rodgers
I mean, when the Stooge came and talked to us, I asked a lot of questions about informed consent, about testing, about liability.
And he basically didn't answer any of my questions.
The president of the team ended the meeting.
And I tell you, a ton of people from every level of the building came up afterwards and thanked me for asking the questions because many of them had no choice.
Just get vaxxed or lose your job.
And there are certain coaches around the league who quit because they don't want to get vaxxed.
I'm sure there may have been fake cards that went around.
tucker carlson
I hope so.
aaron rodgers
And we also know there was many batches that were super toxic and deadly and many batches that were perhaps saline and didn't cause any adverse effects.
But the interesting thing around vaccines...
tucker carlson
Can I ask you to pause?
So do you think that the drug makers knew that they were giving out saline vaccines?
aaron rodgers
Oh, I mean, that's a pure conjecture.
I have read things about the amount of vaccines that went out wouldn't have been possible to produce that to that level, so there may have been some knowledge around that.
But again, that's just conjecture, and I don't have any specific evidence on that.
I'm not an expert at that, but I am an expert at my body and what goes in it and how I feel about that.
Yeah, you know, the whole thing has been a real interesting thought experiment in action around what people are willing to put up with, how you can control through fear, and how obedient someone will be.
Because remember what was going on on all the networks.
You had the live death tolls that were ticking up as you watched the TV. You had the live case numbers.
You had...
Just the fear-mongering.
And then anybody that stood up to it was canceled.
I mean, all the Twitter files that got released when Elon took over that show the collusion between the alphabet companies that, you know, control a lot of stuff and the old, you know, people with X, what was going on at Facebook and the censorship and all these true experts in it.
You know, the Robert Rollins, the Peter McCullers, the Peter Quarries, all these different people who stood up, the Alex Berenson, who, you know, said, tried to just get the message out.
We're silenced and censored.
I think a person with any level of common sense would, even if they got their backs, would go, that's kind of weird.
Why are we silencing all dissenting opinions?
When in the history of the world has censorship ever been?
It's been done by the good guys.
You know, the good guys are the ones doing the censorship.
That actually doesn't happen.
What are you scared of?
You're scared of people being able to make up their own mind?
unidentified
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
And, you know, you see it on...
Bobby just released a video, a 30-minute video, about who he is that got censored by Facebook, which is just wild.
I mean, they're censoring the election stuff, which we know has gone on.
You know, the Cambridge Analytica, if you've watched that documentary about what happened.
It is just pretty wild.
The world that we live in where there's the idea of even free speech and what is it is called into a question all the time.
I just read an interesting book that was written a few years ago called The Coddling of the American Mind.
And it basically is talking about what's going on at college campuses, which we're seeing now.
All this outrage and different things that started post-2016 when Trump got elected.
Campuses felt like they needed to create safe spaces because speech is violent.
Certain types of rhetoric is actually violent.
So we're vilifying the opinions now.
And we're canceling people based on what they believe.
And that's a slippery slope to go down, whether you cancel somebody who's...
You know, a super racist or, you know, against an opinion that you believe in.
Like, none of that actually works.
Ignoring the shit you don't want to listen to or be a part of is one thing.
But, like, picking and choosing what to censor is a very slippery slope.
And you being in the media, you know how important it is to get people on all different sides.
tucker carlson
Well, you can't have democracy.
If people can't say what they think.
aaron rodgers
But democracy in general, I mean, this country was founded as a constitutional republic, which empowers the civil liberties.
tucker carlson
You can't have self-government unless people are not slaves, unless they're free.
aaron rodgers
But you know, democracy always falls into fascism and tyranny and ultimately dictatorship.
tucker carlson
Unfortunately, I'm aware of that.
aaron rodgers
And that's where we're at now.
tucker carlson
Oh, I'm aware.
Why do you think that is?
Why do you think?
And a lot of 19th century sort of free-minded people in Europe looked over at what was happening in the newly minted United States and said that's going to become a dictatorship ultimately.
Why do you think that happens?
aaron rodgers
I think there's a lot of reasons.
I think entitlement is a big part of our society that has been...
You know, a cancer for us because people believe that their opinion is more important than somebody else's opinion.
You know, it was weaponized against people who chose not to get the vaccine.
People would say, your freedom isn't more important than my fucking right to live.
But I think that ultimately it creates It creates too many voices that are all about division.
A true democracy where every vote matters means that all of us are important to the whole.
But when democracy spirals out of control and entitlement is the common thread through it, then nobody believes that your opinion matters as much as their opinion.
And it goes into a straight, egotistical Narcissistic view, which ultimately leads to some sort of fascism, some sort of tyrannical stuff.
And when it's weaponized by the people in control who control the messaging and the media, control the food supply, control the water supply, you're fighting a losing battle.
tucker carlson
It does feel that way.
And it feels like...
You know, both of us grew up in a country that was outwardly focused on, its enemies were outside its borders, right?
I mean, I grew up during the Cold War, enemy was the Soviet Union, you know, China, you know, pick a country we were at odds with.
It does seem like all the energy that the federal government musters against its enemies is being mustered against American citizens.
Like, we're the enemy.
That's the way it feels to me.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I was at the Kentucky Derby this last weekend and they were swearing in some new recruits to, I think, join the Army.
And so they had them repeat after the sergeant or whatever who was swearing them in.
And I just was stuck with that one line that, protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Yes.
And I said kind of domestic out loud because I was like, are we forgetting that one?
Because there's a lot of...
Domestic people in this country who actually don't love America, who actually don't want to see us thrive.
I'm super patriotic.
I think it's because my grandpa fought in the Second World War, was a prisoner of war, and believed in freedom and fought for it and lost many friends.
He was in the Air Force who were at Pearl Harbor and flew many bombing missions over to try and liberate The French and Polish people there over in Europe and almost lost his life for it and lost a lot of friends and believed in this country and the freedoms that he was willing to fight and die for.
And so that's who I grew up in, you know, and I love this country and I want to see it thrive.
And I think there's a lot of people that don't give a shit about it.
And if you look at some of the policies, how does it make any sense to have...
You know, open borders, to have non-secure elections, to have, you know, the lobbying that we have in Washington where, you know, the pharmaceutical companies, the big ag, the big everything controls the policy of the policymakers.
You have people in Congress and the Senate who...
You know, who go right from, you know, their duties to these huge, you know, huge profitable jobs.
They're speaking engagements and pick a swath of the economy, whether it's banking or ag or military defense or whatever it is.
And everybody's in everybody's pocket.
And then you create these bills that have 40 different things in it.
And we're spending billions of dollars to Ukraine and billions of dollars to Israel and billions of dollars to these college campuses.
There's just a lot of issues right now that seem really un-American.
And I think there's a lot of red-blooded Americans.
People are like, how can Trump have such support?
Well, people are fed up with it.
And he speaks the rhetoric of taking back, making America great again and stuff.
My thing is he had four years to do it and didn't drain the swamp.
And whether he just got scared because of what he learned when he was in there, I think it's very plausible.
But that's why I was interested when Bobby came to me and said, would you think about being my running mate?
And I said, are you serious?
unidentified
I said, I'm a fucking football player.
aaron rodgers
But I love this country and I'd love to be a part of bringing it back to what she used to be.
There's a great...
tucker carlson
Did you think about it?
aaron rodgers
Oh yeah, I thought about it.
I definitely thought about it because I love Bobby and I just wanted to hear what he had to say about it.
There's a great opening scene of one of my favorite shows called Newsroom.
Do you ever see the opening scene with Jeff Daniels?
Jeff Daniels, he's an anchor for a news station.
tucker carlson
He must be a good person.
aaron rodgers
And there's a panel.
Yeah, great person.
And he gets asked this question, you know, why is America so star-spangled great?
You know, what makes America so great?
Somebody says like democracy and somebody says like freedom.
He's like, you know, he doesn't want to answer the question.
He says, you know, the preamble of the Constitution is the greatest piece of, you know, written material ever.
Something like that.
And then he goes, no, I'm not going to let you off like that.
You know, you've got to give me an answer.
And he goes into this, like, three-minute monologue about how America is not the greatest country anymore.
He talks about the literacy rates and math rates and reading rates.
We spend more than the next 25 on defense spending.
But at the end he said, America's not the greatest country anymore, but it could be.
And he talks about what it used to be.
We used to dream big dreams and build incredible...
Buildings and great technology and different things.
It's super patriotic.
And that starts the whole show out where he gets kind of canceled for this or he gets put on display like, oh my god, this guy is willing to tackle some of the big issues in this country and keep it real.
And I think that resonated with me because I'm like, yes, what used to make America great?
How can we get back to that?
And that's why I love people who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, like yourself.
And the stuff you would talk about on your show was...
tucker carlson
Yeah, but that's my job.
aaron rodgers
But nobody else is doing that, though.
Yeah, but that's because they're cowards.
Well, yeah, I get it.
But we're a country of cowards now.
People are not willing to stand up for or stand up to the people that are in charge.
There's not many people.
tucker carlson
Well, I know them, and I have such contempt for them.
I mean, they're not even good at fascism.
That's, I guess, my final analysis.
They're not even good at this.
aaron rodgers
What was it for you?
Were you just like, fuck it.
Like, I'm going to say what I want to say.
Were you always like that?
Or was there something that broke?
tucker carlson
Yeah, I've always been that way.
aaron rodgers
But there had to be something where you're like, okay.
Because you talked about JFK, you know, and the CIA being a part of his death.
tucker carlson
We were talking about this last night at dinner, which was so interesting.
I mean, you're a professional athlete.
This is not your day job.
aaron rodgers
No.
tucker carlson
It is my day job.
I've lived in Washington for 35 years, and I didn't really quite...
I mean, I had lots of opinions, all kinds of opinions, but they were sort of aligned with the political party, and I didn't ever question any of the basic assumptions that I had.
People would say, oh, Roosevelt knew that the Japanese were going to attack Oahu in December of 1941. I was like, you must be crazy.
Well, it turns out...
That's true.
It was a Senate inquiry into it during the war that suggested that strongly because it's real.
That and a lot of other things.
But it took me a long time to even ask those questions.
And when I did, I was like, well, then I had to leave the city.
I moved out because I was so shocked by it and so distressed by it.
But you were saying that, I mean, the real question is not how did I come to that.
I mean, I was marinating in that world my whole life.
Why did it take me so long is the real question.
But how did you, or on an athletic track, how did you come to these conclusions?
That's the more unusual.
aaron rodgers
Well, I think it was a number of things.
I always wanted to question what I believed because I felt like it could strengthen that.
And although that wasn't maybe the thought process growing up in the church.
There was a lot to just believe this and have faith.
Don't ever question it.
If you question it, that's doubt, and doubt is a sin.
But I was like, I don't know.
I kind of want to question this so I can have it confirmed.
tucker carlson
Can I just point out that on the cross, as he was being tortured to death, Jesus said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
aaron rodgers
Right.
tucker carlson
Jesus said that.
aaron rodgers
He had some doubt.
tucker carlson
On the cross!
aaron rodgers
But I got into...
tucker carlson
So I think you're allowed to ask questions.
aaron rodgers
Well, yeah.
I kind of gave myself that permission when I was younger.
But I did a report my sophomore year in high school on JFK. And I was just kind of super fascinated by his charisma and the Kennedy family in general.
tucker carlson
Yes.
aaron rodgers
And then his death.
And what little I knew about it.
And I talked to some people that...
Maybe didn't believe the Warren Commission or the official narrative, so I did a report on it.
It was more on JFK, because I think we had to pick an influential person from history to report on, so I picked JFK. In high school?
In high school.
And back then, with very limited internet access, I did a lot of research in the library and read a lot of things, read the Warren Commission, a decent amount of it, the Warren Report, and I was like, there's some bullshit in here.
This doesn't make sense.
You tell me this magic bullet from this guy went boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, about through him, and then they just happened to find it, you know, in the hospital, a certain spot.
I was like, that doesn't sound right.
So that kind of got me into questioning things, conspiracies, for sure, questioning things.
I've seen some really interesting UAP phenomenons in the sky.
I've talked about it, and I know that's something you are fascinated by.
At the time, I also found a way to see the Zapruder film, which was very fascinating as well, even though it's super grainy.
And that kind of got me into questioning things, and then there's been a lot of really interesting things that have happened over the years.
My grandfather, though, I didn't get to know him that well, but I do know that he always questioned.
And believe that Roosevelt knew about the Japanese coming.
And that always stuck with him because he was super patriotic.
And another one of my heroes, Pat Tillman, who left the NFL to join the Army.
His death is very suspicious as well, in that, not the fact we know that he was killed by friendly fire, but the way they handled his body afterwards, his uniform, confiscating his last journal, using his death to prop up the war propaganda.
There's been a lot of great people in history who are super patriotic, who've questioned their government, and I think that's what I've done since I was a kid.
tucker carlson
And pardon my ignorance, I didn't...
I didn't even know that about Tillman's journal.
So that was confiscated?
aaron rodgers
His uniform was burned and his journal was confiscated.
That's in John Krakauer's book, Where Men Win Glory, which is a fantastic book.
And one of my best friends in the entire world, A.J. Hawk, A.J. grew his hair out, him and his buddy, in 2004 as an ode to Pat.
Because Pat always had long hair, played for the Cardinals, left a multi-million dollar contract to go...
Fight Al-Qaeda and Taliban.
Gets over there and is like, what the fuck am I doing?
I'm guarding these poppy fields.
This is not what I signed up for.
I miss my wife.
I miss being in the States.
This is not what I thought we were going to be doing over here.
And then some really negligent maneuvers happened and split up his unit.
And he ended up being with one of the members of the Afghani army who was their kind of guide.
And, you know, a guy saw the guy in some dim lighting on the ridge who was with Pat.
They fired on him, obviously Pat.
And the Afghani thought that they were getting fired on by Taliban, so fired back and ended up, Pat got killed.
His brother was not told right away that it was friendly fire.
It's all in the book.
It's a fascinating book.
I mean, it's one of the only books I've ever cried reading just because it's so...
I mean, John's an incredible writer.
He wrote Into Thin Air.
He wrote Into the Wild.
He wrote Under the Banner of Heaven.
tucker carlson
I read those three.
I never read the Tillman book.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, the Tillman book is incredible.
But I don't know why I'm bringing this up.
Just that there's so many people that really love this country that have gotten disenfranchised.
I think that's part of it.
tucker carlson
Who've been betrayed by their leaders.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
I mean, for your grandfather, who you said lost friends at Pearl Harbor?
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
And was shot down over Europe and held as a POW by the Nazis.
aaron rodgers
And recently, there's a gentleman writing a book about me.
And he's writing a chapter on him, and he went and found the war crime committee that actually interviewed him after he came back because he was mistreated over there.
There was one of his...
There was a group of like, I think there were 10 people on his bomber.
One of the guys ruptured his spleen on the way down and they mistreated him.
Made him march like 20 miles in the freezing cold.
Didn't get him any medical treatment.
So there was like a war crimes commission that was doing an interview.
So he was interviewed about that.
And it talked about kind of how he was treated.
You know, how they put worms in his food and water for him.
Certain times and just the bad conditions there.
And that's all he went through.
He went through all that because he really cared about his country.
And I think even up until his death, there was for sure some bitterness, I would guess, around what was I actually doing and why was I doing it and who had to die?
My friends at Pearl Harbor for this country that I fucking love, that I almost died for.
tucker carlson
Yes, that's right.
aaron rodgers
And I think those are the great people that have made this country what it is.
And we're, you know, now to even question the government, you're some like right-wing conspiracy, crazy tinfoil hat wear, which is wild.
Because it seems like the left has gone so far left.
And anybody right of that, there's no center anymore.
That's according to the left.
You're a right winger, unless you're so far on the left.
The left used to be a party of Occupy Wall Street and free speech and rights for everybody.
Now they're the ones beating the drums on the war machine and censorship and obedience.
tucker carlson
They're not criticizing Wall Street too much, I notice.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
There was a fascinating study, a very revealing study, that showed that at the height of Occupy Wall Street, The New York Times torqued up its coverage of racism.
So the word racist, racism, white supremacy went up hundreds of percent in the New York Times.
You can check all this on their database.
During Occupy Wall Street, it was almost like somebody decided it would be better to be at war with each other than to be asking questions about our financial system.
aaron rodgers
It's not surprising.
That's what they do.
The true disinformation comes from actually those publications now.
tucker carlson
How have they treated you?
aaron rodgers
A lot of character assassinations.
tucker carlson
I've noticed.
aaron rodgers
When I tested positive for COVID, my whole world changed.
And people I thought were allies in the media just turned on me.
They spammed my sponsors to the tune of one of my sponsors who's having a hard time keeping me.
They got spammed with 140 million impressions across all social media to get rid of me because of my choice about what I wanted to put in my body.
They didn't, to their credit.
They stuck with me for one more year.
Sponsors dropped me within a couple days, which is fine.
But yeah, when it came out, whether it was somebody from the campaign or not, released that I was a finalist to be Bobby's vice president, there was a total character assassination.
It was some bizarre story from 12 years ago that somebody thought they heard something, that I was questioning something.
And what it all comes down to, I think...
tucker carlson
That was CNN that did that.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, of course.
I'm not beholden.
I have a contract, but I'm not beholden to anybody.
I'm dangerous to them because I speak my mind.
I'm not cliche-ridden, obedient.
Star athlete.
I speak my mind.
I'm a loose cannon to them.
tucker carlson
But why?
I mean, wouldn't it just be easier to collect the accolades and collect the money and just not say what you think in public?
Keep it for dinner parties.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people have done that over the years.
There's been a lot of great stars who've done that, and I respect that.
I think I just...
I love this country, and I believe in this country.
I believe in people too much.
To just be quiet about things that seem so obvious to me.
And corruption in any form should be exposed.
And the evils in this world that are out there.
And you know, there's good and there's evil.
And the powers that be that don't want the light to shine, the good to exist, really push.
Push things that aren't in the best interest of anybody.
And I just got tired of dealing with it.
I also got to a point that Rogan got to, I think, and many other people, where I made my money.
I have a platform.
I've had success in my business.
What's the worst that you could do to me?
You could kill me.
At least I'm not dying on my knees.
Stand up for what I believe in, whether you agree with me or not, whether you agree with the way I went about it, that's your own opinion, that's fine.
But I feel good about the way that I've stood up for myself.
And like Bobby said, there's a lot worse things than dying.
And I would be dying a little bit every single day if I didn't say some of the stuff that's on my mind.
Now, I do want to not be a part of the war.
I would rather be a part of bringing people back into the fold and actually building bridges with some of those people.
Now there's the evil that exists that I don't care to engage with those people and they know who they are.
Most people that have attacked me that are beholden to big pharma or money or whatever it might be.
But I think if There's a chance for this country to keep going and to exist and to not be like the Roman Empire and fall from within.
And I don't know if that's even possible, honestly.
But I think it's got to start with love and compassion and empathy.
And I'd like to be a part of that conversation, if possible.
tucker carlson
I so strongly agree with that.
And clearly, COVID was used like race questions have been used, like the trans stuff is being used to divide people and to make them hate each other.
And you don't want to be a part of that.
I don't want to make that worse at all.
And I agree with you.
I love the country.
And not only do I love it, I'm stuck here.
You know, I'm born here.
I will die here.
So it's my country.
That's how I feel.
So I don't want it to get worse.
But I do have unanswered in my mind, like, what was that?
I mean, you described, I think, the motives of the people that you know or I know.
You know, they were afraid.
They're just instinctively deferential to power.
Okay, that's fine.
That's all human nature.
But, like, big picture.
That's so crazy what just happened.
And the effects on people are so bad.
aaron rodgers
And we don't know what the effects could be.
tucker carlson
We certainly don't.
aaron rodgers
It's going to be years.
tucker carlson
It crosses the blood-brain barrier.
So, like, what is this?
And it's absolutely fair to ask the question, does it change your DNA? That's not crackpot science at all.
And there's some evidence.
aaron rodgers
Well, they admitted early on, if they'd called this experimental gene therapy, nobody would have taken it.
So they called it a vaccine, and they changed the definition of vaccine.
Like, that's not.
That's not bullshit.
That's not conspiracy.
That's actually what happened.
They literally talked about this, I believe, as somebody at the WHO, CDC, one of those two.
Somebody can check me on that.
But there's literally a conversation that they were having where they're like, well, if we'd called this gene therapy, when maybe we thought it was about 5% to 10% of people that might take this, but we call it a vaccine, then that brings in all the potential being canceled as an anti-vaxxer.
Because that's related to me and you as well.
They have this game plan where it's like, you know, we're on a name call.
You know, anti-vaxxer, anti-Semite, bigot, racist, whatever it might be.
You know, we're going to censor you, then we're going to try and cancel you, then we're going to go after the people that you love and care about.
And that's kind of how they do it.
And so if they call it a vaccine, then all these people who are hesitant to not get canceled, not be shamed by being called an anti-vaxxer, are going to get in line to take it.
tucker carlson
But big picture, do you have any guess as to what is the program here?
What is the point of this?
Is it depopulation?
Because that's its effect, of course.
The lockdowns and the vax depopulate by definition.
What you said, massive miscarriage rate, but also just keeping people inside for a year and a half destroys their ability to find a mate, destroys their souls.
aaron rodgers
Immune system, yeah.
tucker carlson
And its effect on your immune system, exactly.
It causes illness.
aaron rodgers
I think there's some people that want depopulation.
Now, there's been video of Bill Gates that people think is taken out of context, but if you look at his track record and what he's done around the world, I don't know that he's a proponent of all life and people having more kids and more population on this earth.
tucker carlson
I think he's strongly pro-death, from what I can tell.
aaron rodgers
I think he's not the only one.
I think there's a lot of other people.
I don't understand what that motivation is, why, but I think those are some of the evils that we're up against.
tucker carlson
Are you noticing all around, just in your life, are you noticing people begin to make reference to spiritual forces in a way they didn't say five years ago?
Is this my imagination?
aaron rodgers
No, I don't think so.
I think that more people are kind of waking up at that.
I think people that watched, and there's probably...
I don't know, 10, 15, 20 million at least that saw your interview on Rogan and saw you talk about the supernatural component of UAPs.
I think that is a good part of the conversation for people to reference.
I grew up in the church, and in the church you know that there's a battle that's going on between the seen and the unseen world, between good and evil, between the powers that we can see and the powers that we can't see.
And there's some wild things out there that we don't know about.
And there's some government secrets we don't know about.
At a bare minimum, whether you believe in alien life, UFOs, UAPs, whatever you want to call it, there's some technology out there that exists that finally has some sort of disclosure that the government or the powers that be don't think we're ready to...
Be given that information, which is kind of wild.
I actually don't understand it.
The thought process is it's going to change the way that we look at life or religion or whatever.
That gets in the whole other idea about religion being a way to control people, control thought maybe, which is pretty wild.
But disclosure, I think, needs to happen.
It's going to be interesting to see how it happens, where it happens.
But in my space where I'm at, where I do a lot of plant medicine, the veils between worlds and dimensions get very thin.
So the idea of seeing other entities, seeing angelic type of beings and demonic type beings is very normal.
And the idea that there's a demonic aspect to the UIP phenomenon I think is very plausible and interesting.
tucker carlson
I do too.
So you say plant-based medicine, I think you're referring probably to a lot of different things, but among those would be, say, ayahuasca or psilocybin mushrooms.
So the conventional understanding is that if you take a hallucinogen, you see...
Hallucinations.
Things that your brain creates that don't exist outside of you.
But you're suggesting that you can see things that are in effect real but that you don't normally see.
Is that what you're saying?
aaron rodgers
Yes.
Definitely.
And I've done, I have many times now and I've had many incredible experiences.
Finally feel comfortable talking about it.
I wasn't maybe after the first like six times I sat and then I finally said, you know what?
This has made a huge impact on my life and made me feel more connected to this world and more loving and more in my heart.
And even this last ceremony, group of ceremonies that I did, I think has really helped me with the last four years of my life where I went from a pretty beloved, semi-enigma still, but pretty beloved athlete to a very polarizing figure.
And it's helped me to kind of Put that all in the right context and perspective and actually have a ton of gratitude for the whole process, even though it was tough up and down, and more empathy and compassion for those who've slandered me and canceled me or attempted to.
So it's been really important for me and really deep healing for me.
tucker carlson
Well, if you wind up with more compassion for your enemies, it's hard to criticize it.
Because I think that's where we need to be.
aaron rodgers
Well, they also couldn't criticize because the first time I did it, I won an MVP. Then the second time I did it, I won MVP again.
So everybody wanted to put me in the druggy category.
Oh, you're just some wild, hippie, druggy guy.
It's like, yeah, but also I'm better at football probably afterwards and a better leader and better at relating to my teammates.
So there's a lot of positives that come from it.
tucker carlson
What does your teammates say?
What do they say in general?
aaron rodgers
They're interested.
Very interested.
So many people from all different sports, I'm talking basketball players, tennis players, golfers, baseball players, hockey players, and then my own contemporaries in the league are all interested about it.
There's a base level of plant medicine use for the most part.
I would say it's marijuana.
And people have their own opinions about marijuana.
A lot of people are really interested about the healing effects they can have and the deeper sense of self-love and deeper sense of connection.
There's just so many myths about it and misnomers.
I like to say and kind of revised my view of that plant medicine is people like, oh, plant medicine, what is this shit, blah, blah, blah.
Medicine is anything.
That is healing that's not addictive.
And drugs are substances that are addictive.
And there's a ton of drugs.
And not all pharma is bad.
There's some incredible pharmaceutical stuff that's helped us with things that I've used.
Obviously, I've had many surgeries and had anesthesia, and I'm thankful for those types of drugs.
Medicine and food as medicine has been, you know, really impactful for my life.
And there aren't, you know, they're not addictive substances.
They're stuff that I like to use with deep reverence in ceremony setting.
And this made a big impact on my life.
And the people that know me have noticed the change.
People that don't know me, you know, have their shots and their opinions about me.
But I do have more empathy and compassion for all those people and for myself, too.
I'm just trying to do my best.
I was fighting a lot of battles when I tested positive for COVID and got canceled or attempted.
I don't feel like I need to fight as much of those.
What about you, though?
Because you did one of the most controversial, somehow, not to me, most controversial interviews in the last, I don't know how long, when you went to Russia and did Putin.
How did it feel coming back?
Because anybody who watched the interview was like, number one, it was fucking awesome.
Number two, Putin came off as an interesting, thoughtful, smart individual.
And if you've read 1984, you know the base game plan of government control is you have to have an enemy and you have to slander that enemy regardless if you know anything about him.
And I think a lot of people were like, oh, Putin apologists are like whitewashing all the stuff that he's done to the different people.
And I was just like, no.
I'd love to see Joe Biden give an interview where he can speak on the history of the United States in the same way that Putin talked about the history of his country.
tucker carlson
I'd love to see Biden do an interview where he shows how to operate a microwave, and I don't think that's going to happen.
And by the way, Biden won't do interviews, and neither will Zelensky so far.
aaron rodgers
But what was it like to come back?
You were in a couple other places after that.
tucker carlson
Yeah, I went to the Middle East after that for a while.
I mean, I was out of the country for almost a month.
So I missed, and I don't ever read about myself anyway, because I know who I am.
I don't need someone to tell me.
So I missed all of that, as I always do.
But the idea that someone would criticize an interview where...
You just let the guy talk for a couple hours.
I mean, I just think that's inherently useful.
I mean, I just wanted to do it as a documentary record of what Putin is like, or at least what he's like in this context, and people can decide for themselves.
I'm a big believer in letting people decide for themselves.
I think adult men have the right to come to their own conclusions about things.
Adults have the right to.
So I'll never stop believing that because we're not slaves.
We can have any opinion we want.
And if you don't like it, then try and change it through reason.
And if you can't, then fuck you.
And I really feel that way.
So that's the kind of perspective I had going in to talk to Putin.
My perceptions of him are exactly what you just said.
I thought he was an interesting guy, smart guy, impressive guy.
You know, in some ways, obviously a lot more impressive than Joe Biden.
But he's Russian, and he runs Russia.
And I'm American, and I live in America.
So I care about my country.
I want my leaders to be better.
I'm not on Putin's side.
I don't have any emotional attachment to any foreign country.
Because I'm not a foreigner.
I'm an American, and this is the only country I care about.
But for the record, yeah, I thought people can watch it and assess for themselves.
aaron rodgers
And they should.
It's a fascinating idea.
tucker carlson
But the idea that you shouldn't be allowed to do that is so crazy to me.
I'm just not going to submit to that.
aaron rodgers
Being canceled by the people who have just bowed down and given interviews from their knees to the Zelenskys of the world.
tucker carlson
Gargling as they interview, yes.
aaron rodgers
It's wild.
As this guy comes over in fucking an outfit you'd wear to the store on a Sunday morning to ask Congress for another $100 billion is fucking wild.
tucker carlson
He looks like he's going to be in the Village People music video.
I mean, it's like insane, the whole thing.
aaron rodgers
It's insane.
tucker carlson
You do sort of wonder like that and a million other things going on right now.
You wonder if they're...
They're sort of seeing how far they can push the population until someone starts laughing.
Like, are you joking?
aaron rodgers
It feels like that sometimes.
What if we did this?
Is anybody going to give a shit?
No?
Okay, now let's try this one here.
We're going to put Joe Biden up and do this.
Wait, what?
This guy who can't even walk over here?
Shits his pants every now and then?
tucker carlson
Then we're going to pick the single...
Dumbest, but most self-confident person in the entire nation of 350 million people and make her White House press secretary.
You have to deal with this every day on your television.
No, I know.
Well, I'm going to laugh.
aaron rodgers
But the real question I had for you in relation to freedom of speech and free speech is two, I believe, champions of free speech who are now in exile.
Julian Assange and Ed Snowden.
tucker carlson
I know them both.
aaron rodgers
And you've had conversations with them, both people who exposed corruption.
Yes.
There was attempted murders on both of them.
Yes.
Both are alive.
Julian is kind of rotting in a cell right now, I believe.
tucker carlson
Yes.
aaron rodgers
And Ed is in his own exile in Russia.
Yes.
But thriving, it seems like.
tucker carlson
Yes.
aaron rodgers
But both people who...
I have a lot of affection for it, just the fact that they would do what they did and expose what they exposed and knew the consequences.
How do you feel about those two?
And do you think there's any path back, whether it's Trump or Bobby?
Maybe not even Trump, because in fact Trump didn't do it, but if Bobby were to get elected, the opportunity to pardon those people, would they come back to the States, you think?
Would they?
tucker carlson
Well, I mean, in the case of...
Snowden, who's stuck, who I like a lot.
And as with him and Assange, I don't agree with them on everything.
I don't agree with my kids on everything.
I don't have to agree.
We agree on the things.
aaron rodgers
I don't either.
tucker carlson
By the way, if I'm being totally honest, I probably do agree with them on most things.
But whatever.
aaron rodgers
I just love that they expose corruption.
tucker carlson
Their bravery, their physical courage, those guys, their willingness to suffer for what they believe.
And the principles for which they're suffering, the dignity of the individual, we're all created by God.
You cannot treat me like a slave.
You cannot tell me what to think.
You cannot tell me what to say.
You cannot lie to my face.
Period.
Because I have self-respect.
aaron rodgers
And that there is a field of value.
This is right.
This is wrong.
That's exactly right.
What was going on was wrong.
And we got to expose this.
tucker carlson
Well, and Snowden especially.
I mean, Snowden, Assange is Australian.
He's lived around the world.
He was a journalist.
I don't think he had any expectation that he would wind up.
Spending his adult life in prison.
I don't think that even crossed his mind.
Maybe it did.
I haven't asked him.
But Ed Snowden knew exactly what he was getting into.
And he was a middle-class American, high IQ guy, lots of job opportunities here.
He could have lived a very comfortable life with his wife and kids.
And he intentionally put all of that at risk in order to tell Americans what their government was actually doing.
And what's crazy to me is not that the U.S. government...
Is trying to murder him, which, of course, they are, but that news organizations don't defend him.
That's when you realize the, quote, news business is totally fraudulent.
None of these people mean it.
They went into it.
These are people who went into the news business as a way to exercise and exert power over their fellow Americans.
Like, it has nothing to do with informing people.
It has to do with controlling and oppressing them.
That's why you work at NBC News.
So you can control people.
It's really sick.
And my loathing for them just can't even be described in words because it's so profound.
I have not forgiven them, and I don't think I will.
But Snowden, yeah, Snowden would come back tomorrow.
He's American.
His wife's American.
I think he's got a fine life in Russia, but he's not Russian.
And ultimately, I mean, I don't know if you've lived abroad.
You probably haven't had time.
But if you spend enough time in foreign countries, you realize that no matter how wonderful they are, they're not your country.
You know what I mean?
You'll never fully be a citizen of another country if you were born here.
So he wants to come back and they won't let him.
And it's disgusting.
aaron rodgers
It's disgusting that they would use a term like traitor for him when he's literally exposing government corruption and stuff that you should give a shit about.
tucker carlson
If I catch you robbing a liquor store and call the police, am I the criminal?
No.
You're the criminal.
You're robbing a liquor store.
Ed Snowden exposed crimes by the U.S. government against the American population.
U.S. citizens who are paying for this were being spied on illegally, and he's the criminal?
No, no, no.
He's the hero.
You are the criminal.
Mike Pompeo, director of the CIA, who is literally a criminal, and yet he's treated like, I mean, he's in the running to be defense secretary if Donald Trump wins.
It's shocking.
Take a criminal and give him nuclear weapons?
Really?
aaron rodgers
But that's been the whole revolving door.
With government, with the cabinet that happens, revolving door from the FDA to the CDC to the WHO. It's a secret handshake society of everybody just patting each other's back and staying in it.
That's the corruption that needs to be exposed, and it's out there.
tucker carlson
It's utter.
aaron rodgers
And they're just doing it so overtly.
Who gives a shit?
tucker carlson
Well, in very high stakes, too.
It's not just like, well, I'm not doing the best possible job as transportation secretary.
It's like, no, actually, I'm forcing the entire country to take poison.
I'm killing people.
I'm destroying the U.S. economy for the benefit of a few, et cetera, et cetera.
These are big things.
These are not minor fuck-ups.
These are major felonies, in my opinion.
aaron rodgers
And that's why, I mean...
That's why I have hope and I want Bobby to have a chance to debate and to get into it because if not, it's just going to be the same shit over and over and over.
And like when the financial crisis happened in 08, right?
And Obama put many of the people involved in it into his cabinet, into the Department of Treasury.
It was like one of the guys from Goldman and Sachs, I believe, who was a part of the whole fucking Shit, they went down.
And that's on Inside Job, which is a great documentary as well.
tucker carlson
So maybe we take the captain of the Titanic and make him Secretary of the Navy.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
But that's basically what you're doing.
unidentified
I know.
tucker carlson
What do you think motivates Bobby Kennedy?
aaron rodgers
I think he loves standing up to the man, to the big corruption.
Now, he is royalty, because the Kennedy family is one of those special families, and his family has been a part of...
In a position of power or fame, riches for a long time.
But look at his life and what he's done.
He's gone after the EPA forever.
And he gets shit for his vaccine stance.
But he was never a part of that.
It was actually a couple women who came up to him when he was suing the EPA for years and winning.
For them destroying our water and destroying people's lives and weaning consistently.
And then he's like, oh shit, there's another issue that's going on.
It's the chronic disease epidemic in this country.
And he can give you all the numbers from what it was.
And there's certain dates in time where certain things happened where chronic disease went way up in the 80s specifically after a bill was signed by Ronald Reagan.
And since that time, if you look at a lot of the numbers, there's been a huge jump in chronic disease for kids, in illness, in SIDS, in autism, allergies, all these different things.
And he's just saying, listen, I'm not saying that causation is correlation 100%, but there has to be some sort of relationship here with this.
And why don't we do some studies on it?
Why don't we get some transparency?
Why don't we have these vaccines go through the normal trials and testing?
tucker carlson
Because learning things is anti-science.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
But I don't think Bobby would put those kind of people in his cabinet.
I don't think he would give power to those kind of people.
And, you know, like I've talked to him, You know, as frustrating as some of the alphabet gangs or organizations are, there's a lot of great people in them.
There's great people in the CIA, there's great people in the FBI, there's great people in the CDC and the WHO and the FDA who really care and think they're making a difference.
But there's a top line in a lot of those organizations that are actually at their core anti-American and are not doing things that's in the best interest of our people and we're fucking paying them.
It's on our dime.
And all the stuff that's happened post-9-11, you know, with the Patriot Act and the FISA Court, as far as the surveillance domestically and spying, and the fact that they are not actually unearthing these, like...
Domestic terrorist plots.
There's a lot of great documentaries and stuff.
You can look into that.
The fact that our food and water is not at an acceptable level.
The fact that our border is not at the right level.
The fact that some of the stuff that happened with ATF, they were tracking these guns that went to the cartel and they were being used to kill border agents and all these different shit that's gone on.
Again, I'm not saying that all those organizations are super corrupt.
There's a lot of fucking great men and women that work for those.
But there's some people at the top who aren't great people.
And that's what needs to change.
And I think Bobby would go in there and change a lot of that stuff.
And that's what his uncle and his father were trying to do.
If you know the history of...
tucker carlson
How'd that turn out?
aaron rodgers
Well, yeah, that's what happens with some of these companies.
And that's why I love Bobby and you because you're willing to stand up knowing that...
It doesn't always end well for people going up against corruption.
tucker carlson
So this is a guy whose uncle and dad were murdered in the course of their jobs as elected officials.
aaron rodgers
Well, look at the history of Alan Dulles, right?
tucker carlson
Yep.
aaron rodgers
If you know his history.
He was in banking for the Bush family.
Then he got into the OSS, which was a precursor to the CIA. Yes.
And he was probably a part of Operation Paperclip, which repatriated a lot of the German scientists.
Yes.
Which, there's some ethical issues with that.
He tried to get us into World War III in Cuba, Operation Northwoods.
And the majority of JFK's actually closest advisors, I believe they voted, and the majority said, let's do it.
And let's blow up this ship, and let's get us into World War III, and let's go after Cuba.
And JFK said, nope, ain't doing it.
Fired Alan.
And then Alan Dulles winds up.
Where?
As basically one of the main guys in the Warren Commission.
Chief Justice Warren was, I believe, only at nine of the 30-some-odd meetings that they had.
But the two guys that were really in control of it, from what I've read, are Alan Dulles, former fired head of the CIA, who ended up getting his job back, and there's an airport named after him, and Gerald Ford, future president, who was at the time number two at the FBI. An FBI led by J. Edgar Hoover, who hated the Kennedys.
tucker carlson
So given that all of that happened, it's a little weird that the Biden administration won't give Bobby Kennedy Secret Service protection.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, and he's known Joe forever.
Like, they were friendly for a long, long time.
It wasn't like he's some outsider.
Like, he's been around the political game for a long time.
And he's the only major candidate who's not gotten...
Secret Service protection.
They're also limiting and skewing, I believe, some of the polls to try and not just keep him out of a debate, but keep him out of Secret Service protection.
He's spending millions of his own dollars on private security, which he has to because he's a threat because he's not bought and paid for.
And he's a foil to the two-party system.
But I don't know if you saw this, but Bobby recently came out and said, In the summer months, at some point, he wants to do a 50-state poll with like 20,000, I don't know what the exact number is, votes in each of these states.
And whoever polls lower between him and Joe Biden has to drop out of the race.
Because in his own analytics, he's found out that if the three of them run, Trump is most likely to win.
If he goes against Trump, he wins.
If he goes against Biden, he wins.
If Biden goes against Trump, Trump wins.
So in fact, he said, hey, listen, I'll drop out if you pull higher than me in these 50 states.
But if I pull higher than you, you're out.
There's no way he'll go for that.
I think it's a brilliant model to be like, no, no, I'm not the foil.
Bobby's not the foil.
Bobby's a main player in this.
Going through this process and just entertaining it for a small time, to learn about the corruption with getting on the ballot, that's fucking wild.
tucker carlson
It is wild.
aaron rodgers
50 states with 50 different ways of doing it, for the most part.
You can have your signatures thrown out if you have the wrong color ink on one of 50,000 signatures.
Some states you file with the Secretary of State, some states with the Governor's Office.
It's so ridiculous.
Ridiculous.
The whole process.
Which is just set up for a two-party system, right?
And then who knows about the safety and legitimacy of this whole thing.
tucker carlson
Well, it's a lot harder to get on the ballot than it is for, say, a non-citizen to vote.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
Or a dead person.
tucker carlson
Or a dead person!
aaron rodgers
A lot of those.
tucker carlson
So you've made reference a couple of times to the food supply, and you said, I don't know about, you know, I'm not an expert on vaccines, but I am an expert on food.
aaron rodgers
Well, I'm not an expert on food.
tucker carlson
Well, but I mean, it's your job.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I mean, I care a lot about what goes on my body.
tucker carlson
You have to, right?
So what have you learned?
So for people who aren't paying as close attention to what they eat, where do you think the bad, like what's the bad food?
aaron rodgers
Well, a lot of it's in the wording of it.
I mean, fat is a bad term, but fat is really good for you.
Cholesterol is also a real negative stuff.
tucker carlson
Yeah, yeah.
aaron rodgers
But you need cholesterol because it's good for your brain.
There's some bad types of it and some shit that you can eat that kind of skews your levels.
But sugar, terrible for you.
Anything processed.
Sugar fuels cancer cells.
So eliminating sugars, processed foods.
tucker carlson
But if you were to start with one, it would be getting rid of sugar.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, definitely.
And then fasting.
Fasting is incredible for your body.
It resets your body.
I do at least a five-day fast every single off-season, just kind of kick-start the off-season.
tucker carlson
What's that like?
aaron rodgers
It's a fun process.
It's hard, but after you get past three days, you have this evolutionary impulse that kicks in, and you feel amazing, actually.
I got to the fifth day this year.
I was like, man, if I wasn't going on this trip, I would do 10 days.
Really?
Yeah, and it just resets your body.
And actually, there's a lot of great research.
Dana White was talking about it recently.
He did kind of before and after testing, and there's a lot of studies now that talk about the percentage goes way down of heart disease, heart attack, based on fasting.
Cancer, obviously, has a really hard time when you fast, or when you at least fast from sugar.
And that's kind of my problem with the whole, you know, the cancer industrial complex is that there's very little people treating cancer that kind of start a base level of diet.
And I'm not saying that all treatments are terrible.
There's a lot of, you know, people doing really great work and caring for patients, but diet should be the first thing that you look at, especially sugar.
I had a weird experience.
I was at the hospital years ago seeing a friend and a coach of mine who had a heart issue.
And I got there.
He'd gotten two stents put in.
And he's drinking a Coke and eating pudding.
unidentified
And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
aaron rodgers
What are you doing?
And that's part of the problem is we're not using food as medicine.
tucker carlson
Well, sugar is also, as someone who has quit smoking and drinking and drugs, I can say, Way more addictive.
aaron rodgers
It's a drug.
It's addicting.
tucker carlson
Like, actually.
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
But in every single day, there's stuff that's finally coming out.
Like, I was just reading something.
There's four, you know, four, it was like Oreos, Lucky Charms, something else, and Gatorade, you know, has been exposed as having, like, forever chemicals in them.
And so there's finally...
People getting some of the message out and forcing, you know, these companies to change.
But the best way to vote in general is with your money.
I really believe that.
Obviously, you know, I'd love that if Bobby would win and we'll definitely vote for him.
And voting on a local level is really important, especially for your local, you know, DAs and sheriffs and different things is super important.
But like voting with our dollar is really important.
And companies that are involved in Shady practices, unethical practices, foods that have poison in them, and they know it.
Don't buy them, and they'll change.
They'll change, just like with the government.
If you don't follow their ridiculous draconian rules, they're going to change.
tucker carlson
So it sounds like protein is the answer.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, protein, fat.
Everybody has a little different body, a little different constitution.
But I think on a base level, fasting is good.
Now, a lot of the intermittent fasting data for women was post-menopausal women.
I definitely know that.
So intermittent fasting for like...
Women still menstruating.
I don't know that's great for health, but I think fasting in general is a good reset for your body.
tucker carlson
How hard are the first three days?
aaron rodgers
Hard.
But it changes your relationship with food.
Now, we're not living to eat, we're eating to live.
I think that's an important distinction.
tucker carlson
Do you feel lightheaded or jumpy?
aaron rodgers
A little bit.
It depends on how much sugar you've eaten.
You can get the sugar blues and the sugar depression there if you're coming off eating a ton of sugar for sure.
But I don't eat a lot of sugar, so it was fairly easy for me.
But I do it all the time, too.
I think it's, like, just start with 24 hours.
Just start with 24 hours and just drink water or bone broth as a good reset.
And then if you can get to three days, that's great.
Get to five.
That's incredible.
The research says five and up has, like, the greatest benefits.
But it's a good reset for your system.
You look better in the mirror.
And your body just starts to function a little bit higher.
tucker carlson
So you work out while you're fasting?
unidentified
Yeah.
tucker carlson
Is that hard?
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
It's lighter workouts when I'm on my fast.
Because I need some energy to work out.
tucker carlson
What's the longest you've gone?
aaron rodgers
Fasting?
Seven.
tucker carlson
What was that like?
aaron rodgers
Awesome.
Past three is amazing.
I think it goes back to the hunter-gatherer where you haven't had food in a few days and you get this fucking energy jolt from your system to go find food.
And after three days, I feel amazing.
I don't even need food.
And then just ease back into some stuff on day eight.
But I love it.
I did some Ayurvedic stuff as well, like a 30-day Ayurvedic diet, and that was incredible for my system.
tucker carlson
What is that?
aaron rodgers
It's just eating and doing kind of a full-body flush reset like they do in India.
It's their kind of way of doing medicine.
And man, that reset my entire system.
I lost weight.
My stomach lining changed for sure.
I went in being allergic to a lot of things and having irritable bowel syndrome.
I came out of those 30 days with no allergies, no indigestion, no irritable bowel stuff.
And it just like flipped.
tucker carlson
What were you eating for 30 days on this?
aaron rodgers
Just mostly Ayurvedic stuff.
So rice, lentils.
There's no meat.
And I love meat and protein.
But yeah, just a lot of lentils and rice and vegetables.
tucker carlson
What's a darkness?
Is it a fat?
aaron rodgers
Retreat?
tucker carlson
Retreat.
aaron rodgers
Well, you're just in a room about...
I don't know, a third of this size probably with a little bathroom, bathtub and can't see shit.
tucker carlson
Nothing?
aaron rodgers
Nothing.
Can't see anything.
You start hallucinating like I did five nights, four days.
You start hallucinating like on the third day because your brain starts, the DMT starts getting activated.
tucker carlson
Is it hard to text in that environment?
aaron rodgers
Yeah, very hard.
tucker carlson
No, so you're actually in total darkness.
aaron rodgers
Total darkness.
No concept for what time it is, especially after the first couple of days because you sleep so much the first night.
After that, you don't need to sleep hardly at all because you have no stimulation for your eyes.
So you're not really tired.
You're just kind of laying there or moving around.
I was like, you know, did yoga, did long meditations, sat in the bath for a couple hours.
It seemed like, I don't know, time was irrelevant.
But a lot of great contemplation.
tucker carlson
The bath.
So you're like feeling your way to the bath?
aaron rodgers
Oh, yeah.
And a lot of times you start hallucinating and seeing different shapes and doorways and stuff and you just run into stuff all the time.
It's quite the process.
tucker carlson
I think that's scarier than any drug.
I think I would be afraid to do that.
unidentified
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
I'm glad I did it.
I don't need to do it again.
It's not like something I need to...
I can't wait to do another darkness retreat.
It's like, no, I did that.
Check that box.
That was cool.
Not going to do it again.
tucker carlson
What did you think about?
aaron rodgers
I started each day with a meditation and just said, what do I want to contemplate today?
So contemplated relationships, family, and then two days was one was I'm retired and one was I'm playing.
And so I went through all the insecurities around retirement and then all the fears around playing again.
I spent hours just thinking through things and any time a negative thought would come in, just being curious about it and wondering where that comes from, if there's a root of that.
Is there something from childhood that is involved in that fear and insecurity?
And it was really amazing for me just the healing that happened.
And I came out really feeling comfortable either way, like not scared of retirement, not scared of...
Of slipping into irrelevance.
I actually welcome that.
Not worried about what the future looks like if I don't play for the Packers anymore and I'm on a new team and new guys, new city.
So it was really meaningful and I'm really glad I did that.
Again, don't need to maybe do five days, four nights, but it was a good experience.
Have you done anything like that?
tucker carlson
No.
I've spent my whole life running away from stuff like that.
aaron rodgers
But nobody even can take a few minutes to get off their phone.
You probably are better than most.
tucker carlson
Oh, I definitely am.
No, I take a sauna every day for 20 minutes in silence.
aaron rodgers
But do you watch TV? No, we don't have a TV. Yeah, we have a TV. That's a good way.
tucker carlson
I like silence.
I don't like noise.
I don't actually watch any video at all ever.
But to be in total darkness for five nights.
You know, I don't know what would happen.
Were you afraid at all?
aaron rodgers
No.
But the weirdest thing was night one, I had a bad dream, like a nightmare.
And when you're, normally when you're at home, you have like a weird dream, something's off, maybe you see, feel an entity, or just something's freaking you out.
What do you do?
You kind of wake up, orient yourself.
Okay, I'm on my bed.
I'm fine.
Here's this.
Maybe I can get up out of my bed, do something.
Okay, I'm okay.
And then you kind of are able to usually get back to sleep.
But in the darkness, what you see eyes closed is what you see eyes open.
So there was no escaping the nightmare.
tucker carlson
You wake up at 3 a.m.
and got to take a leak.
How long does it take you to get to the John?
aaron rodgers
Five minutes.
tucker carlson
For real?
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
Because you're just like...
Here's one step.
Here's one step.
And you're super disoriented.
You're just going really slow.
And I'm feeling around, feeling around, feeling around.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Okay, this should be here.
Banging at something.
This should be over here.
Okay, there.
Here's a tiny little door.
Okay, get in.
Okay, now I got to, you know.
But, I mean, you're not really wearing clothes for the most part.
Just because you don't need to.
You're just in complete darkness.
tucker carlson
What's dinner like?
aaron rodgers
Well, the food is actually pretty good.
So, once a day, the food came at 6 o'clock.
There was like a double-sided door.
So he'd put the food in one side, close it, then I'd open so there's no light.
And you'd just use your smell.
Be like, oh, that's soup.
I'm having that for dinner.
Oh, here's...
It was the food for the next day, too.
So, okay, there's some apples.
I'm having that for breakfast.
Oh, here's some mixed nuts.
I'm going to have that for lunch as a snack.
Oh, here's...
What is this?
Oh, this is some sort of pasta.
Okay, I'm going to have that for lunch tomorrow.
So you're kind of going through it, and you're just like...
You have all the time in the world.
So you just savor every bite and just eat super slow.
It's actually very meditative.
That part was cool.
tucker carlson
I've done a lot of hallucinogenic drugs, not in many years, but I have when I was a child.
And no matter how weird it gets, you feel like, well, it's the drug.
But when there's total silence and darkness, are you worried that something's going to rise up from within you and scare the crap out of you?
aaron rodgers
Not really, because before that, I had done ayahuasca multiple times.
I'd done psilocybin journeys.
So I had figured out what it was like to surrender to a process or a ceremony.
So I kind of treated that the same way and just said, you know what?
Whatever comes up is what's supposed to come up.
Like we say in doing Aya, like the medicine will give you exactly what you need.
So I kind of took that attitude into the darkness and said, whatever comes up is what I need in this moment.
So I'm just going to surrender to it.
And it's like, it's weird.
I'm not on my phone.
There's no distractions.
There's really no sound.
Like every now and then, like in the afternoon, a plane would fly by above.
And I was like, okay, it must be afternoon.
And then at 6 o'clock, you knew it was 6 o'clock because the dinner would come.
That's the only reference for time that you knew.
But I just surrendered to the process and said, I'm here for a reason.
I've paid for this.
So I might as well enjoy this experience.
And I did.
It was fun.
tucker carlson
Did you feel like a medieval prisoner locked in a dungeon?
You weren't locked.
aaron rodgers
I could leave at any time I wanted.
The door was open.
So if I wanted to leave...
tucker carlson
Did anyone else make it five nights?
aaron rodgers
Yeah, a lot of people.
And somebody was coming out actually when I was going in who had been in 30. 30 nights.
I could not believe that.
Because I wouldn't want to do that.
I think a 48-hour reset would be interesting, but even five days, four nights was like, okay, that's enough.
tucker carlson
How did the person look?
aaron rodgers
I didn't see them, but I heard they were a little bit depressed.
Which I can imagine.
Are you kidding?
I heard your story on...
On Rogan, though, like, you definitely dabbled a little bit in some psychedelics.
Oh, a lot.
Was there ever any, like, real major breakthroughs that, like, stuck with you?
Or was it a lot of just, like, tripping?
unidentified
I mean, I was 15 years old, you know.
But still.
tucker carlson
It was a different country.
And, you know, it's so long ago and far away, it's hard to believe it's real.
But, yeah, for sure.
aaron rodgers
But that was, like, in the 70s, right?
tucker carlson
80s, yeah.
Mid-80s.
Just grew up in a world where certain drugs were much more accepted than they are now.
I'm not saying that's good at all.
But, you know, different time.
But, yeah, no, I've done a lot of that.
And I decided, I mean, a long time ago, you know, I haven't had an Advil in 22 years.
I'm the soberest man you'll ever meet.
I was afraid.
I mean, one thing I learned was there's a lot of stuff swirling around inside you, and that's why the darkness retreat really struck me, because that stuff would rise right to the surface.
And I'm not comfortable being in touch with all of that, and some of it is chaotic and scary, and it's not clear how much of it is from within and how much of it is from without.
I didn't really believe in the unseen world when I was doing stuff like that.
So I didn't really consider it, but yeah, I saw some very scary things, and I was like, don't want to do that again.
You know what I mean?
So actually, I didn't get much out of it, and I remember once, while taking LSD, when I was 15, I was just too young to be doing that anyway, but I remember writing down my profound thoughts as I was in the middle of this very, very far-out experience.
They didn't make any sense.
In fact, I found them in my barn in this building upstairs.
I need to see the generations of family stuff stored a couple summers ago when I was like, I got to go through these boxes, you know, various diaries from deceased relatives and including my acid memoirs, which were really banal and fragmentary.
Like, what does this even mean?
You know, I think I threw them away.
I want my kids seeing that.
No, I didn't have any breakthroughs.
I'll tell you, the breakthrough for me was sobriety, just because I partied too much.
So having to face things without a crutch, I felt really...
And admit.
I think all growth and joy begins with admitting who you really are, being honest about yourself.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I agree.
tucker carlson
But a darkness retreat would maybe be too much honesty for me.
aaron rodgers
No, you never know.
tucker carlson
So you said you thought about what your life would...
Be like if you kept playing with another team or if you retired.
I mean, at some point, you're going to retire, right?
What are you going to do?
aaron rodgers
I'm going to take a few deep breaths and relax a little bit, I think.
I've been doing this for 25 years, playing football.
20 this year in the NFL. I've been mildly famous for the last, you know, 20 or so, 21, I guess.
You know, I'd like to just take a step back and just, you know, enjoy life in a different way.
I'd like to be a father at some point and take on that chapter in life, which is exciting to me.
tucker carlson
How hard is it to date when you're as famous as you are?
aaron rodgers
Oh, it can be hard.
Yeah, it can be hard, for sure.
But I think, in general, you become a pretty good judge of character over the years when you make mistakes and trust the wrong people.
Whether it's business or personal life, you can sniff some things out pretty quickly, I think.
But you never know.
And you met your soulmate when you were 15, right?
tucker carlson
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
The most beautiful thing about that, which is the hardest thing about relationships in general that I've seen with my friends, is how do you grow together?
unidentified
That's right.
aaron rodgers
Because you're a different person, 15, 20, 25, 30, 55. But finding someone who's willing to grow with you and be what you're into and that you have your own separate life, which is beautiful and big and full, and then you can come together and not having to find you full identity in that other person I think is really important.
To do all those things, I've really just been trying to work on myself and ready myself because I've been way too codependent in relationships in the past where I've kind of lost myself to hold on to this idea of what I think a relationship is.
And it's just not, it hasn't been sustainable for me.
But I'm confident that there'll be a time when that comes together.
Until then, I'll just...
Just be enjoying myself.
tucker carlson
Since you spent the majority of your life famous at this point, what do you think of that?
What do you think of being famous?
aaron rodgers
It has its pluses, for sure.
It's not ever anything I signed up for.
I just love to play football.
And my fame grew really around the same time.
We won the Super Bowl, and then I did a State Farm commercial.
And it's actually true.
It's funny, but it's true.
I became...
The State Farm guy.
At the same time, I became a Super Bowl champion and an MVP, ultimately.
And my life from 2011 on just really took a whole different change.
Before that, I was recognizable, I would say.
After that, I was famous.
And I was the famous football player, also ad man, pitch guy for State Farm.
So more people knew me.
And I love my privacy.
And that got...
Totally kind of taken away.
tucker carlson
You think?
aaron rodgers
I don't know if you felt like this, but I've definitely gone through phases of being a recluse, for sure, where I just don't want to go out, don't want to see anybody.
And I don't really like that.
I mean, I am introverted in general, but I love people.
I love my routine, and I felt like I got so just scared of not having my privacy or just annoyed that I just stopped doing things that I enjoy doing, and I just didn't really like doing that.
So now I do exactly what I want to do when I want to do it.
And try and have a little bit of sense of humor with some of the reactions that come from people or situations where I can't just have privacy and just find a little more humor in it.
It seems to transmute some of the frustration and fear into joy in those moments.
What about you?
tucker carlson
Oh, I could write a book on it.
Yeah, I'm not into it at all.
But yeah, you can definitely become a recluse for sure.
aaron rodgers
Some people, though, in your business and my business kind of signed up for it.
That's what they want.
tucker carlson
Those are the saddest of all people.
You want to be famous?
You want to be loved by people who have never met you?
aaron rodgers
Plus, like, kids these days are saying, what do you want to be when you grow up?
It's not a fireman or an athlete or something.
It's famous or an influencer.
tucker carlson
Well, to influence people, I think, is a great honor.
aaron rodgers
But that's not what they're talking about.
tucker carlson
And can be a joy.
aaron rodgers
Yes.
tucker carlson
Right.
But to be well-known is, no, of course, it's a nightmare.
There's no upside whatsoever.
And if you find that important, then you're a hollow, sad person.
That's like, what is, you know?
But who, I mean, one thing I noticed about famous people I've always noticed is, having spent a lot of time around them for the last 30 years, is they all know each other.
You ever notice that?
aaron rodgers
Yes.
Yeah, there's a knowing.
I think you kind of know what that person's going through.
So there's a base level of like, oh, we kind of know how to navigate this life in a similar fashion.
So there's like that, there's that just closeness, I think, that comes with initial meeting of like, oh.
We probably have similar experiences.
So there's that connection kind of off the bat with that.
I mean, I'm sure you feel that.
tucker carlson
Yeah, I have a big family, so that really helps.
So, yeah, I don't have that many famous friends, but some.
I don't know.
aaron rodgers
I was looking at your board over here.
tucker carlson
Well, I've had a lot of people in this barn.
But when you're going through, like, for example, when you tested, Positive for Rona.
And then you admitted that you were part of the despised unvaxxed.
unidentified
Yeah.
tucker carlson
You were a criminal.
aaron rodgers
Immunized.
tucker carlson
Immunized.
And the world just like comes down on your head.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
tucker carlson
And your agent, I don't know if your sponsors are calling you, maybe.
aaron rodgers
Yes, they are.
tucker carlson
Of course they are, right?
And I'm sure the league is calling you and you're just under bombardment.
Who do you talk to about?
Do you have people in your life who can buck you up?
aaron rodgers
You have a great support system.
I think the last couple years, and I'm sure you feel the same way, but the last 10 years, but every year it seems to get even smaller, but the circle kind of constricts a little bit, and there's less people who know exactly what's going on, and there's just a really tight-knit group of the inside of the inside, and there's a beautiful group outside of that who you love and you talk to and you spend some time with, but they don't know everything, and they don't get to because There's just certain things that's only meant for a really small group of people.
And I love that.
And so those people are my rocks.
And they're not yes people.
They're people that can tell me exactly what's going on and what I need to hear, not what I want to hear.
But there's a really small group of those people.
tucker carlson
So you keep the ass kissers out of your life.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
There's a lot of them.
tucker carlson
Oh, I know.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, they want to be involved.
tucker carlson
Would you rather be attacked to your face or flattered to your face?
aaron rodgers
I'm probably flattered.
tucker carlson
You're an honest man!
aaron rodgers
You know, attacked.
It's like, you know, because we were talking about this last night.
We can be in situations where you can't just have a normal conversation with somebody who disagrees with you, right?
A lot of times it's that person's filming it or somebody else's filming it or they're shit-talking you and they want to get a reaction out of you.
So those, you know, I don't shy away from those and those don't, like, get under my skin.
Actually, I find those comical, but...
tucker carlson
Do you get that at dinner when you go out to restaurants?
aaron rodgers
No, not really.
I think most people that...
I do say this.
I feel confident in this.
The majority of people that want to censor me, cancel me, shame me, shit talk me, if they got to know me, I think...
Would have a different opinion of me.
And I hear this from actually a lot of people who are like, man, you're just so much different than I thought.
tucker carlson
What do they think you're like?
aaron rodgers
Well, they get the image from mainstream media or from two disgruntled teammates that I'm some sort of overly arrogant, narcissistic prick.
And then when you get to know me, it's like, oh, you're not really any of those things that you've been painted as because...
You have to have a villain and you're the villain now because you stood up to the government and you're not bought and paid for and beholden to all these other things and you're not quiet about your beliefs.
So I think that's usually the common perception and then the common reaction.
I hear from a lot of people, people who don't even actually agree with me or who thought about me a lot of times a certain way.
Often we'll say, man, I really enjoyed this time together, this dinner, this conversation, and you're different than I thought.
I'm always like, thanks, I guess.
Low expectations, you know, high deliverables.
tucker carlson
I thought you were an asshole.
By the way, I'm sorry, I totally forgot this.
Our producers put all this stuff, I haven't even looked at any of it.
They found this, which just amused the hell out of me.
Remember how they were saying ivermectin was horse dewormer?
I'm pretty sure I took ivermectin.
aaron rodgers
Horse paste.
tucker carlson
Horse paste.
This actually is...
It's horse paste.
Duramectin, ivermectin paste for oral use in horses only, though it does look like rectal use.
aaron rodgers
Nice.
tucker carlson
That's the ivermectin dispenser.
aaron rodgers
I love that.
I love that.
tucker carlson
I'm going to keep that on the bar right behind you just to see if...
aaron rodgers
Let's do the little shadow box.
Let's get a little box for it to put up on the wall.
That'd be awesome.
tucker carlson
So what do your teammates think of all this stuff?
aaron rodgers
Most of all, most of them are really interested.
I try and share a lot of my experiences, especially my failures as a young player, because I want to help these guys not make the same mistakes.
So whether it's failure in hiring the wrong manager, agent, or financial people, or just not being involved in my business as a young person.
Some of these guys involve a lot of family members to handle really important parts of their jobs.
Just sharing my experiences with those guys is important.
tucker carlson
Don't hire your drunk cousin.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, maybe keep family and business separate as much as you can, unless your family member is a certified accountant or something, a lawyer or something, and you trust them.
I think it's always best to keep some distance between friendship and business, too.
Can get a little bit dicey at times.
I made many mistakes doing that and try and share those experiences with them.
My life, you know, publicly, the things I talk about now as we're shifting, you know, four years from, you know, three years, I guess, from COVID is more around plant medicine.
So they're very interested in that, interested in ayahuasca and psilocybin and the effects and the fears.
And they have a lot of the same fears that most people have around a bad trip, a bad journey, a bad...
So it's fun to have those conversations.
Many people have reached out wanting to set up their own journeys, their own trips, just learn more about it.
I'm an avid reader as well, so there are people checking me about books to read and recommend, and so I love doing that with some of my teammates.
So I might start them with The Alchemist, start with that one, and maybe send them to a crack hour book or send them to a self-help book or something, or maybe a book about medicine.
But yeah, we joked there was a group of us in the corner of the locker room that we kind of called the Brain Trust.
So the four of us start talking, you'd see somebody come pull the chair up, another guy would come over and pull it.
Next thing you know, there's like 10 guys just kind of listening to what we're talking about.
Guys are eager to learn.
People from all different types of backgrounds and walks of life.
That's a lot of fun.
I think to be relatable to those guys, you've got to first share your failures.
For sure.
Share the things you wish you'd done differently.
And it's like, I would guess it's like a parent where you don't want to save them from everything, but you like to stop them from making big mistakes that could really affect their life down the road.
Some lessons you've got to learn on their own, but there's some things that I've fucked up on that I love to share with the guys so they don't make the same mistakes that I did.
tucker carlson
Are you going to miss it?
aaron rodgers
Yeah, for sure.
I miss the guys.
Like, going to Derby this last weekend, the best part, and with all respect to the horses and Churchill Downs and all that stuff, The real point of the trip is the camaraderie with the guys.
And as most guys I've played with, and a lot of guys I only see maybe once or twice a year, and this is kind of one of those events.
We just share stories and laugh about the same stuff and catch up on family and kids and injuries and body and health and the newest hacks that they're working on.
One of our guys who was my center for a long time, Corey, And he played at, like, 305 pounds.
Now he weighs 235. So, like, seeing him healthy is awesome.
And talking to him about his life, he's got four kids now and a beautiful wife.
And that's the fun part, is just seeing these guys once or twice a year and just, like, keeping that close bond.
tucker carlson
Is it weird to be the last guy standing?
aaron rodgers
It is weird.
tucker carlson
I mean, you're the last guy from your year, right?
aaron rodgers
I'm the last guy from my year.
I'm the last guy in that group.
It's the big group that's playing.
Devontae Adams was with us, and Devontae's still playing.
He's going into his 10th season.
But yeah, all the guys that came in the league are gone.
tucker carlson
Like long gone?
aaron rodgers
Long gone.
And I transcend a lot of stuff.
We had dinner Saturday night and a few of some young guys came over and one of the guys was Ray Lewis' son.
And to tell a kid, who's not a kid, he's in his 20s, like, I played against your dad.
That feels kind of weird.
tucker carlson
Yeah, that is weird.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, it's crazy.
What's the truth about CTE? The truth is our sport is dangerous.
tucker carlson
Well, yeah.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
The truth is our sport is dangerous.
The truth is that there's minor brain injuries that happen every single game, I would assume.
There's collisions.
It's a collision sport.
And I think it's important that we really pay attention to how our bodies are responding.
The league is, and the agreement with the players, has gotten better every single collective bargaining agreement, which I think I've been a part of three now.
I think we're doing a better job of...
Safety and the equipment's better, the helmets are better, the diagnosis are better.
tucker carlson
Are people worried about it, do you think, younger players?
aaron rodgers
I don't think so.
Not many of them.
I think more people are worried about their own health and some of the meds that are given out.
There was a med problem in the league for a while.
It was easy to get Vicodins, Percocets, that kind of stuff.
Then there was an issue.
I had one of the teams, and they kind of changed the policy, which is better now.
But that was an issue, I think, some of the addiction to some of that stuff that some of my teammates had.
tucker carlson
Do you remember that?
aaron rodgers
Oh, yeah.
I remember a teammate of mine who was so addicted to Percocet that he had to be put under anesthesia to have his surgically repaired knee moved.
That was wild.
And that was...
Not abnormal.
There were a lot of people that were...
tucker carlson
Why?
Because it dulled his...
aaron rodgers
Yes, his pain tolerance.
He had to give so many meds to be able to be moved.
It was wild.
tucker carlson
Did he recover?
aaron rodgers
Not really.
I mean, he since has now, and he's doing really good, and he's been sober for a while, but that's an issue.
There's a really bad stat that...
It was a scare tactic, but it's true.
Back in the day, it said that within three years, 75% of NFL players three years post-retirement will be broke, divorced, or unemployed.
And a lot of times, it's multiple of those three.
And I see it a lot because you're living this life.
You're making a ton of money.
That money train dries up.
You maybe don't have a ton of life skills or haven't spent time in the league planning for your post-career stuff or don't have the money to just coast like I could and some of the people by a long time could.
And then there's marital issues that happen.
And it's a very sad statistic.
The league tries to do some things to kind of promote second career stuff.
Financial literacy, but a lot of it's on the guys to learn on their own.
And if you don't have the right people advising you, I've seen a lot of my former friends go through some crisis.
He's in their 20s because the average career is three years.
Now you're 26, 27. You have no job.
You may or may not have graduated from college, but who knows?
How many people actually use the degree now anyway from college?
I mean, college is...
It's ridiculous.
tucker carlson
But you have no skills other than the game.
unidentified
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
And now they're trying to figure out what to do.
So it's pretty...
tucker carlson
And they got married to the wrong person along the way?
aaron rodgers
Possibly.
Yeah.
Or just like, you know, 50% of marriages at this point or more and in divorce anyway.
So when, you know...
Who knows?
I mean, I'm not blaming, not wife-shaming here.
tucker carlson
No, no, I get it.
I get it.
But I mean, it's, again, back to the fame question, if a woman is coming at you because you're famous, that's not a good basis for a marriage.
aaron rodgers
No.
No, it's not.
And, you know, there's some guys who, you know, haven't...
I've made some rough decisions, too, with having kids and multiple women.
Some of those were bad decisions by the men.
Some of those are women who saw a millionaire football player and wanted to be taken care of for a while.
Both of those are true.
So sometimes that is something you take with you in the game where now you have a couple kids out there that you're taking care of for many years and you don't have the same type of money coming in.
So now there's financial issues with some of the child support that you should and do pay.
So guys, there's a lot of mistakes that are made and some you can rectify and get through and some make life a little more difficult if you're not able to play like me 20 years and don't have...
Any financial issues or any kid issues or any stuff like that.
tucker carlson
You said that you started to realize that a lot of what we take for granted is actually untrue, and some of this, by this I mean our civilization is built on lies.
aaron rodgers
Yep.
tucker carlson
You started to figure that out in high school.
What do you think, but you also said you're in favor of just disclosing, like the government should tell everything it knows.
If it did that, If we actually learned the truth about everything, various wars that we've had, assassinations that we've had, our economy, what would happen?
The government thinks things would fall apart.
People would just be so overwhelmed and so disgusted that they wouldn't believe in the government.
They would, I don't know, become nihilists or something.
What do you think would happen if we actually knew the truth about everything?
aaron rodgers
I don't think that's the worst thing.
I mean, if you're making decisions based on What's the worst that could happen in this case?
I think there'd be a ton of people actually connecting and finding common ground because it'd be a common enemy.
You know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
tucker carlson
That's right.
aaron rodgers
Right?
And I think it'd be fascinating to watch the structures we put so much trust in just crumble.
And I think a lot of that needs to happen, whether that's...
In one disclosure, one fell swoop over the years.
It is kind of wild, though, that we still can't release the JFK files.
That happened in 1963. We're 61 years this November.
Pfizer tried to release their files in 75 years.
Initially, that's what they asked.
They're testing stuff.
75 years they wanted.
Disclosure on the UFO stuff was supposed to happen.
Many times.
tucker carlson
Most recently last year.
aaron rodgers
Trump supposedly saw it and then decided not to release it, right?
Or was that the JFK stuff he was talking about?
tucker carlson
Both.
aaron rodgers
Both, yeah.
And Biden, everything's gotten pushed back.
I don't know.
I think in order for us to advance as a society, there has to be, in this age of Aquarius, there has to be disclosure.
I mean, for you, you had to be privy, living in Washington, working for Fox, being the top guy there.
Stuff that not everybody knows, and you probably know more than the common person.
But how much did you encounter, you don't have to get specific, is stuff that you don't think the American public could handle that you know or that you believe?
tucker carlson
I mean, I agree with you 100%, and I thought that was so nicely put and so smart that if you knew the truth...
Your belief in lies, of course, would evaporate.
You'd no longer believe the liars, and that's not a bad thing, but that you would be united much more than we are now with your fellow Americans.
And I think that's a really, that's a wonderful way to look at it.
I think that's absolutely right.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I said enemy of my enemy, but it's like, I'm not enemies with, you know, a Democrat or a Republican.
I get it.
I'm not enemies with somebody that has different skin color.
tucker carlson
I totally get it.
I think of that about race all the time.
aaron rodgers
But they put us against each other.
tucker carlson
Of course.
aaron rodgers
They want to divide it.
tucker carlson
You know, if you watch the media, I've thought of this a couple of years ago.
They're always calling me racist, white supremacist.
It never bothered me that much because I'm not.
aaron rodgers
You're a Putin apologist.
tucker carlson
I'm a Putin apologist.
I didn't care at all about that.
But I didn't really want to be called a racist because that's awful.
You know, it's awful to be a racist.
But then it stopped bothering me.
But I was left with the feeling, man, there's a lot of racial tension in this country.
And there's clearly some.
But I got to tell you, in the last, I don't know, 10 years, I've not had one black person confront me about being racist.
Not one.
Not a single time.
And I've also not heard people angry about race in my personal life.
Maybe it's just me.
I think there's a lot less race hate than we're told there is.
Much less.
I think most people kind of get along with each other, actually, in this country.
I believe that.
It's very clear to me that they're doing this on purpose, the people in charge, in order to keep us divided and angry and confused.
So I agree with you that disclosure would have that effect.
In my specific case, I feel like I've learned probably too much about a couple of topics because, by the way, there's some things that I can't prove that I believe to be true, so I don't repeat them.
But, you know, the UAP stuff, some of it is really distressing to me.
What I believe to be true, but I can't prove it.
But as I've said before, I think it's spiritual.
I think some of these things are dark, anti-human.
Probably some aren't, but you know.
aaron rodgers
Do you think because there's potential anti-human properties that there's actually pro-human supernatural?
tucker carlson
Well, I think God's real, for sure.
And as, you know, evil flourishes, you also see it's obverse.
You see good at work.
You see God at work.
I do in my life all the time in a way that I didn't say five years ago.
I wasn't thinking like that at all.
I'm a very secular person who grew up in a very secular world.
Unlike you, I did not grow up in any recognizable church at all.
And so I had none of those assumptions.
But no, I think it's, you know, in...
Bad times like this one, there are miraculous and heartening moments, and I see that all the time.
If we learned everything that the government is hiding from us, what would you be most interested in learning about?
aaron rodgers
Well, I mean, JFK, for sure.
tucker carlson
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
I want to see those files, because that's what got me into it, but I think the UAP thing.
tucker carlson
Would you be shocked to learn that Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself?
aaron rodgers
No.
I mean, how many Jeffrey Epstein type people are out there?
tucker carlson
Well, that's right.
aaron rodgers
That's the real question.
tucker carlson
You mean people who've been killed or people who are using sex as a blackmail tool?
unidentified
That.
tucker carlson
Yep.
aaron rodgers
And then who's pulling the strings on that?
tucker carlson
Any guesses?
aaron rodgers
Ghislaine Maxwell has a lot of ties to the Mossad.
tucker carlson
Yep.
aaron rodgers
That would make sense.
I mean, Jeffrey didn't seem to get some of the appointments he was given And prominence based on merit.
Somebody was putting him in the right spots.
But I don't think he's the only one.
I think there's a problem, a weird, bizarre problem, really, that has a weird sex component to it with some of the elites.
And there's a pedophile component to it as well, which is really sick.
And there's some prominent figures.
You know, who are in the spotlight as of late.
I would like that to be exposed.
But Jeffrey Epstein had the goods on everybody.
There were a lot of people that didn't want him to be alive.
And then the whole, you know, wild story around, you know, multiple people being asleep and, you know, him not being watched at the time.
Real convenient.
And I just don't believe in that many coincidences.
unidentified
No, no, no.
tucker carlson
He was murdered in federal detention in Manhattan.
I don't think there's any question about that.
And people lied about it, including the then Attorney General of the United States.
aaron rodgers
I think there's some weird correlations and anomalies that the Johnny Depp trial had eyes on it, crazy coverage, and the Ghislaine Maxwell trial had...
Next to no coverage.
No TV coverage.
No nightly commentary about it.
No traffic to nobody.
She is indicted for trafficking kids and nobody who she was trafficking kids to got indicted.
tucker carlson
Or named.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
And all the files that are out there still haven't been released.
We have one testimony from one victim.
That's all we have.
When that came out...
This is literally like one victim.
And there's hundreds of just in that little who flew on the Lolita Express.
And there's a lot of super prominent names who are on the flight logs.
tucker carlson
What's the sex thing about?
I mean, you've been in Famous Guy World for a long time.
And you're from, like me, you're from California.
So obviously you've been around well-known.
Cultural figures, the elites.
How long have you thought this, that sex plays a role?
aaron rodgers
Well, not that long.
I mean, I've just kind of, you know, I've seen some interesting things.
tucker carlson
I bet you have.
aaron rodgers
Been around some interesting parties and gatherings that are strange.
Not anything like...
What it sounds like, you know, a ditty party.
But just even at an Oscar party, just seeing how some of these people act was always a little bit strange.
I just never resonated with it.
It was almost like interesting people watching.
But there always seemed like there was parties within the party.
People kind of doing their own thing.
That always kind of weirded me out a little bit.
But getting into conspiracy stuff, then you know about secret society stuff and stuff like the Bohemian Grove.
And you know what Nixon said about the Bohemian Grove.
What did he say?
Well, you have to go look at his quote.
His quote is not exactly...
unidentified
He said something like they're all gay, right?
tucker carlson
Something like that.
aaron rodgers
That's basically what he said.
The secrecy around that.
And that's not the only secret society.
There's a lot of really interesting secret societies, not just like the Skull and Bones at Yale, which has produced all those presidents and the Freemasonry at its highest level.
There is a sexual component, I think, to a lot of that.
Obviously, with Epstein, it was blackmail to get them to do what they want.
I mean, how many people are compromised by that that are in positions of power today?
I think you're naive.
I think it's none.
And you said it on the podcast with Joe.
The scary part for those people is that, and for us, they could put something on your computer to cancel you.
They could set you up for something.
tucker carlson
Oh, of course.
aaron rodgers
Thankfully me.
I don't watch porn.
I've never been into any weird kinky stuff.
tucker carlson
I think it'd be pretty unwise for a prominent person to get into online porn because all that stuff is monitored.
I mean, what?
aaron rodgers
Yeah, but I think a lot of those people probably are.
tucker carlson
You'd have to be an idiot.
There's a camera on your phone and your iPad and your laptop.
unidentified
Yeah.
tucker carlson
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
But I mean, didn't, you know, Again, there's weird anomalies with everything, but it gets used all the time, right?
Stuff like that gets used all the time to silence people, to quiet people.
Now, whether that's legitimate or not, if it's legitimate, that's fucking sick and gross and those people should be.
If it's illegitimate, it's not real, and it's been planted, that's a fucking shitty shit sandwich.
tucker carlson
Well, kiddie porn, I always try and say it out loud just to indemnify myself, to protect myself against...
I don't have a laptop.
I'm not into porn or kiddie porn.
I just want to say that out loud.
aaron rodgers
Yeah, I'm going to say the same thing.
tucker carlson
You do feel like...
aaron rodgers
I've never been into it.
tucker carlson
I wouldn't kill myself.
aaron rodgers
I love my life.
tucker carlson
If you can spend five nights with darkness, I think you're psychologically pretty healthy.
You're beating the averages on that.
I feel like I'm pretty psychologically healthy and I could not do that.
But if you found out everything, you said, Faith and government would collapse completely.
aaron rodgers
Yes.
tucker carlson
And that's a good thing.
But would that be the road to anarchy at that point?
aaron rodgers
I think you might need some of that.
Anarchy, I think, is always seen...
You have to look up and give me the exact definition of anarchy, but the thought of anarchy is just like chaos.
tucker carlson
Yes, chaos.
aaron rodgers
But it's more just a...
I believe.
It's more like a belief in the...
It's a doubt in the government's ability to do its job.
tucker carlson
Yes.
aaron rodgers
At its core.
tucker carlson
Well, I qualify then.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
I'm not going to call you an anarchist, but we need some of that.
We need some more questioning.
We need more disclosure.
We need more things being brought out to light.
We need more journalists doing their job and having the right conversations.
I'm excited for you.
I can't even imagine who you're going to get on your podcast because it's going to be amazing.
tucker carlson
You're the first one and I'm grateful.
Just two more questions.
aaron rodgers
And then I have one at the end too.
tucker carlson
So the first one is I asked you what you're going to do when you retire which is probably imminent just at some point just because of your age and your...
Amazing longevity so far on the sport.
But you said you just want to take a deep breath.
Could you see yourself running for office?
aaron rodgers
No.
No, I don't think so.
No, I just, I don't.
I believe in Bobby and what he's standing for.
But I've never been super into politics.
And as said publicly, I believe it's a sham.
Now, I retract that in the context of Bobby because I believe in what he stands for.
But I've never felt like there's been two parties.
It's just been the same people and bombs still get dropped regardless of whether it's Trump or Obama or Bush or Clinton.
Wars still get fought.
Taxes still get levied.
Evil and corruption still exists.
The secret handshake society still exists.
The lobbyist power still exists.
All the big, you know, big whatever, military-industrial complex still exists, no matter who's in charge.
So how much can you actually impact?
I don't know.
I mean, I like to think that if Bobby got in, if they didn't take him out, that he could enact some real change.
I think the alphabet groups need a full makeover.
If we're going to, you know, support espionage, then let's make sure we're not doing it our own people who are good, you know, self-conscious, freedom-loving Americans.
Republican, Democrat, Independent, Black, White, Asian, Mexican, whatever it is.
tucker carlson
That's right.
aaron rodgers
Just great fucking people who live in this country.
Leave us alone.
Leave us alone.
tucker carlson
Yeah, stop spying on me.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
Get off my computer, get off my cameras, get off my ring camera, you know, take down all this stupid fucking CCTV cameras everywhere that are watching everything.
Because the next step to all of this, people don't realize this, and this is the fucking facts, is China and what's going on there.
And social credit scores.
And your entire life monitored.
Like, that's where we're going.
Slowly, Jordan Peterson said, was doing an interview and talked about, I can't remember what the conversation was, but I heard him say this.
How does corruption take form when it's so obvious?
It's slow movements.
It's like barely inching towards total corruption and obedience.
Where you don't really see it coming, next thing you know, like, oh, I have no other option but to get a chip in my hand or have a social credit score that allows me to, you know, fly in a plane.
If I don't have a good one, then I got to ride on a bus or a train or a cab or, you know, I can drive.
You know, they want all electric cars.
I can just, you know, shut that off at some point because your post on Facebook, you know, kind of violated the government standard here.
And also we're gonna freeze your bank account or only let you, you know, eat at this restaurant.
Sorry, eat at the, you know, get groceries from this store, not like the nice, you know, organic store.
You're gonna have to eat this shit over here or eat insects or whatever the hell I'm like.
tucker carlson
The Oreo store.
aaron rodgers
Yeah.
We're not far from that if we don't, like, stand for civil liberties.
And people always like, you know, when I talk about, because I've always been a big proponent of Ed Snowden, and people are like, well, I have nothing to hide.
And I'm like, that is the fucking worst answer.
Because I don't have anything to hide either.
But I want my privacy.
And you don't understand.
You think the government's just going to stop at what they're doing now?
They're not going to stop with this.
They're inching closer to being 1984 where they have a set in your...
Some sort of TV set in your house that watches you.
Make sure you get up and do your 10 push-ups, 10 sit-ups.
We're going to watch every aspect of your life.
We're going to give you a social credit score.
We're going to create...
I mean, it's a fucking great book to read.
It was written in 1949. And how accurate it is today.
Literally a ministry of truth.
We literally had a government organization that was censoring free speech.
And categorizing things as misinformation, there was a Ministry of Truth czar who was making decisions based on what they thought was acceptable language online.
And all these fact-checking bullshit, like, we're not far from 1949, from that book, 1984, which was written in 1949, if we don't take a stand for our civil liberties.
That's why I think that there needs to be more disclosure.
I hope there is.
I hope there's more corruption.
I hope Bobby gets a chance to debate because I think he'd do a hell of a job.
I hope Nicole gets a chance to debate against Kamala Harris because I think that'd be a big win for her.
tucker carlson
Have you met her?
aaron rodgers
No, I haven't.
unidentified
But I enjoy what she says.
tucker carlson
My last question is, we are moving there and no one is stopping it at this as of today, May 2024. So where are we in five years?
aaron rodgers
I, you know, I was a little bit worried come out of COVID because I saw so many people who were manipulated by fear and laid down and followed the rules.
I think it was a lot of people who are captivated by fear, for sure, but the majority was conscientious, good-hearted Americans.
tucker carlson
That's right.
aaron rodgers
I really do believe that, who just...
Wanted to do what they thought was right.
tucker carlson
Exactly.
aaron rodgers
Trusting that the government wouldn't lie to them, wouldn't fuck with them.
And I think those people are waking up.
That's why I have hope.
I really do have hope that we've learned our lesson.
And that the powers that be, the evil unseen world, overstepped a little bit too far.
And that they got power hungry.
And they got a little over their skis.
And the people woke up and are not going to allow this to happen again.
And there's some weird things going on in the world right now.
The stuff of the border is very weird.
Like listening to Brett Weinstein talk on Rogan about the groups of Chinese military-age men that are getting in.
It's very unnerving.
And they're doing it in new ways and we're not prosecuting anybody in a lot of these big cities.
And there's the George Soros of the world who are anti-human and funding a lot of these protests probably on these college campuses as they're arresting people who don't have student IDs, who aren't a part of it.
We saw it in Wisconsin when there was riots going on.
They were bossing people in from Illinois and Iowa and all these different places.
So there's anti-human people out there who don't want this to happen.
But I think there's so many incredible Good-hearted, conscientious Americans, both Republican, Democrat, independent, undecided, don't give a shit about politics, obsess over C-SPAN every day, or whatever it might be, who are just waking up and going, you know what?
This is not the America that my ancestors fought for that I want to be a part of.
That it was when I was a kid, when I was in high school, when I was in college, whatever it might be.
And they're not going to put up with it much longer.
And I think that That's what I'm saying.
I think the evil kind of overstepped a little bit too far, and now the tides are turning.
tucker carlson
I hope you're right.
I hope we look back and see COVID as a blessing.
aaron rodgers
This is the other part of it, is where do we get our media from these days?
The information police, who forever, growing up, not me, but like the Walter Cronkites of the world, who are idolized as like the Dan Rathers even, who like, it seemed like there was somebody you could trust who was giving you the truth on TV. Those days are gone.
And thankfully, X has some level of freedom of speech still.
But media, our media, we get from, majority of us, from Twitter, not from Fox or CNN. True.
Right?
You had a huge following, but then you go to X and your numbers go fucking crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
But the majority, how we're going to change the world, I think, is by having conversations like this.
Not just me.
I'm just some anti-vaxxer football player.
tucker carlson
Conspiracy theorist!
aaron rodgers
Conspiracy theorist, yeah.
But with Joe, I mean, the most influential people in the world, right?
Joe Rogan's one of them.
tucker carlson
Yeah.
aaron rodgers
Joe has...
Ten plus million listen to every one of his podcasts.
Every single podcast that he does goes immediately to number one on Spotify.
tucker carlson
Oh, yeah.
aaron rodgers
Yourself, the numbers you got, impressions you got, the views you got, when you did interviews with Trump and Putin and everybody in between were astronomical.
Nobody's ever seen.
And it's going to be, what gives me hope is that you have a voice of reason.
You are willing to stand up what you believe in.
And that, you know, guys like Joe, And yourself and countless others are willing to lay their reputation aside, get canceled, force standing up for what they believe is right.
And that's the way that we change things.
So that's why I fucking am a huge fan of yours and just want to encourage you, if I can, to just fucking keep doing what you're doing because this is how the world changes, by having long-form conversation with interesting people.
Who can change the narrative and get people to go, you know what?
Maybe I can change my opinion because that's the only way that we grow together is by talking to people that we don't actually agree on everything or we have what we think is a tightly held belief and we go, you know what?
I'm going to loosen that grip a little bit and just listen to what somebody else has to say and then maybe there's something in there that goes, I like that.
I might not have to hold so firmly to this anymore.
And it's just like in the church, right?
And you're a spiritual person.
I'm a spiritual person.
Talking about aliens, you can't talk about that shit in church, right?
No, there's no other.
God created Adam and Eve and just on this planet, right?
There's nothing else to look at.
Well, there's some weird extraterrestrial references in the Bible that they didn't have maybe the words for, but there could be some other shit going on here.
And maybe I shouldn't hold so tightly to that one belief that...
I'm the only thing on this entire earth, and the earth is 5,000 years old, and there's nothing else going on here.
We all need to transcend our beliefs, to include the stuff that we want, but in order for us to get to the next level, whether that's the next dimension, a new earth, a new way of living, is to transcend and include what we believe.
And in doing that, I think it's talking to people that we don't necessarily agree with.
It's like what I'm trying to do and will continue to try and do, and that's have empathy and compassion for people that have slathered me, shamed me, and canceled me, tried to.
And get past that.
tucker carlson
That's the most Christian possible thing you could do.
I mean, Christians are commanded to do that.
They don't, but they're commanded to do that.
Pray for those who persecute you.
Love your enemies.
I mean, that's...
aaron rodgers
And sincerely do it.
I'm going to sincerely try and do that.
And I think we can all do that on some level.
But it starts with just opening your heart a little bit.
Trying to love people a little bit better.
Trying to love yourself a little bit better.
And then not being scared to stand up for what you believe in.
tucker carlson
It feels like...
There's a depth of conversation.
This is my last question, but have you noticed in your personal life that the conversations you're having with the people you love, who you're friends with, that they're much deeper than they were five years ago?
aaron rodgers
Much, much deeper.
Yeah.
I think there's a number of reasons for that.
It's just where I'm at personally and the changes I've tried to make.
But I think in general, people are desperate for that deep connection.
And they're just tired of surface-level stuff, and they really want to go deep.
And we attract our tribe.
You know, your vibe attracts your tribe.
Just like you said, I don't really know anybody who's, like, you know, vaxxed or wearing a mask in cars.
I don't really either.
And there's no judgment.
tucker carlson
I'm not judging.
It's just interesting.
aaron rodgers
That's just where you're at on your journey.
That's awesome.
That's great, you know?
Like, I wish you didn't have that much fear, but, like, mad love, you know?
Whatever you're doing.
But, like, the people that I'm trying to attract and that I have been is just people who are desperate for, like, depth and connection.
And finding, like, common ground.
Even the people that I don't, I had to know with people recently that are, you know, fully vaxxed and double boosted.
And we had a beautiful conversation about, you know, a dozen different topics.
And I left going, fuck, that's awesome.
Like, I love being able to connect with people like that who don't have a base level of, like, belief that I do.
But we both came to the table, like, in the actual table of, like, wanting to have, like, a deep...
And understand each other better.
And I think that's how we move this thing forward.
And my life is just like people who want to go deep.
And whether it's on medicine or off medicine or talking about medicine or not talking about medicine, it's all like, how can we connect deeper?
How can we love better?
How can we love ourselves and our world and actually make a difference?
And that's why guys like yourself, guys like Joe, are making a difference because they're...
We're platforming people who really care about this life and are doing awesome things.
And when you hear somebody who's passionate about something, it just gets you kind of vitalized about life.
And you're like, oh, fuck yeah.
These people do love America and they do want to make a difference.
And they do care about right and wrong.
And there is a field of value where things are good and things are evil and stand up for what's good.
And that's what you're doing.
That's what you did on Fox for all those years.
That's what you did when you fucking left Fox.
I'm just glad to know you.
Glad to be friends with you.
tucker carlson
I am too.
Thank you.
Aaron Rodgers.
Thank you for dinner.
That was great.
aaron rodgers
Thank you.
tucker carlson
Do I think law enforcement and intel agencies massage and shape news coverage?
aaron rodgers
Yes.
tucker carlson
I think to an overwhelming extent.
aaron rodgers
How many of those are directly agents replaced?
In those fields.
tucker carlson
As Bob Woodward was.
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