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April 4, 2024 - The Tucker Carlson Show
22:41
Tucker Carlson - In the name of diversity, ESPN fired Sage Steele. Pretty funny, except it’s not. Here’s what happened.
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Speaker Time Text
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Sage Steele worked at ESPN as an anchor, as a host, for almost 17 years, and she was good at her job.
That's why she stayed so long.
But there was one problem.
Sage Steele decided to say what she really thinks, in a pretty gentle, measured way.
But still, for example, in 2021, she went on a podcast and hammered ESPN for its vaccine mandate, called it sick and scary, which it was.
On that same podcast, she committed a real sin, and she asked an obvious question.
Why does Barack Obama call himself black when he's actually biracial?
He's as white as he is black.
Well, you can't say that, it turns out.
ESPN pulled her off the air for 10 days.
Why?
Interesting question.
Then, Steele made ESPN even matter when she said that the man in the bathing suit, Leah Thomas, who was winning all the swimming competitions, was not, in fact, a female swimmer.
So behind the scenes, ESPN said you'd better be quiet about the trans issues.
In fact, sent her a letter saying it's totally fine to talk about trans issues as long as you don't misgender someone.
In other words, you can disagree as long as you don't disagree with the people you're arguing with.
You have to accept the terms of the trans activists you're criticizing or else you're a thought criminal.
Watch this.
unidentified
There was a special, an ESPN special that came out showcasing, you know, Women's History Month.
And this special was surrounding Leah Thomas.
And I just remember thinking to myself, you know, I could not imagine being a woman working there, being asked to report on this issue with a smile on my face and doing it.
And so I just kind of wanted to ask about the support you felt from women since, of course, taking the stands that you have.
None.
None.
I was asked to stop tweeting about it.
I was asked to stop doing anything, saying anything about it on social media because I was None!
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely none!
But she does have good people around her because she herself is a good person.
She's gone from ESPN. She settled a lawsuit with them.
And now Sage Steele joins us in the studio.
Sage Steele, it is such an honor to have you here.
Thank you.
unidentified
This is my honor.
Thank you.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
What a great response.
Tell us about the support you've received from women.
None.
Absolutely none.
Is that true?
unidentified
Women supporting women.
You know how it goes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
I do know how it goes.
I know.
unidentified
And I will say throughout my career, I think that's the overall most disappointing thing is that, and especially in the sports world, where when I started, No internet.
I was always the only woman in the locker rooms.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
I bet.
unidentified
The most support I received was definitely from my male peers.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Because they like women.
unidentified
Well, no.
It wasn't like that.
And I was married.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
No, no.
I don't mean it in a creepy way.
No, I don't mean that.
Actually, I didn't mean it in a sexual way.
It's just that men are kind of programmed to have affection for women.
I mean, they just are.
unidentified
But I also think they're...
They weren't threatened by me, especially early on in my career.
But even at ESPN, I was excited because where I was before in D.C., I was the only mother.
So I was excited to be around women who are a little bit older and could maybe, you know, part of the club and take care of each other as a mother, first and foremost.
Forget about, you know, the broadcast.
Because that is...
Competitive.
So I think, you know, the big picture is women preach this all the time.
And it's like, oh, the men holding us down in the glass ceiling.
And every time I speak publicly at an event or whatever, I make sure I bring this up because I'm very passionate about it as the mother of two girls.
Yes.
And they're, you know, college age kids, too.
But, you know, we complain about the guys, but look in the mirror.
What do we do to each other, first and foremost?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Well, I've seen it a lot.
I've had a lot of female bosses, a lot.
And every single one of them has been nice to me.
I'm just being honest.
I mean, some were good, some were not good.
Most were not that great.
But some were fine.
They're always nice to me.
Always nice.
They were savage to the women on staff.
And I always noticed that.
They're mean to the women.
What is that?
unidentified
They pit us against each other.
They really do.
Which, again, is just unfortunate.
But to me, okay, fine.
Own that if you don't like the other women.
But then to be hypocritical and go on social media and talk about let's uplift each other.
And listen, I wasn't trying to call people out, but over the last eight months, maybe probably a year, when I started to support Riley Gaines and certainly the whole transgender sports issue, I said, women, we don't realize our power.
If we as women in the media, let's just say women in sports media, because this is a sports issue, came together to say, no, no, no.
We've been fighting for so long for women in sports and for salaries.
To be equal at times, you know, you look at the women's national soccer team versus the men and the ratings they brought in versus the men.
There are some things, yeah, like we are fighting for women.
And then to be silent when it comes here.
Like ESPNW is part of the ESPN network that W is for women.
They spend millions of dollars on a big summit, like a get-together of women every single year.
And on the stage, it's women and promoting women and promoting diverse thought.
With women and supporting them.
So then when the biggest issue really of the last, I don't know, several decades comes up, after all the Title IX fights, we as sports media, women remain silent.
To me, the hypocrisy was too thick to ignore.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
And silent in a kind of North Korean way, like nobody's allowed to disagree even a little bit.
unidentified
No.
And then I found out, yeah, more from my employer.
Zip it.
And so I made sure that night when I received that email, which was, wow, I'm in the middle of a free speech lawsuit against that company.
I made sure and sent another email.
Are you going to tell me to not support women?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
This is like the most Orwellian sentence.
I alluded to it in the intro, but here it is.
While civil discourse on the issue of transgender athletes competing in women's sports is both appropriate and beneficial, that discourse needs to be fact-based and should not rely on personal attacks, insults, derogatory or crude language, or misgendering others.
So you can disagree as long as you accept their premise.
unidentified
As long as you follow the narrative.
And listen, I knew that, but to me this just was simple and it was a no-brainer.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
But they put that in writing.
That's real, right?
unidentified
In writing.
And then it continued.
And you might offend people at our company who are in the LGBTQ community by what?
By supporting women?
Because there's a difference between attacking the transgender community and supporting women.
I have never and would never do that.
That's not my heart.
Because I have empathy for transgender people who want to compete.
Well, of course.
But the answer is not to take from the women that for over 50 years, Billie Jean King, Title IX.
This is not the answer, and I had no idea that that would be controversial to stand up for women.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
One of my female relatives of mine said to me the other day, I thought it was kind of brilliant, like the whole trans thing really is just another triumph of men over women.
Does anybody ever say that?
unidentified
I have heard that more recently.
It's amazing how many...
DMs I get and emails through a website or whatever from people, even in the industry, who are like, I wish I could.
So thank you.
And I'm like, oh, we all can.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
unidentified
I do understand why they don't.
I mean, listen, I'm a prime example of what happens when you speak up and are yourself.
You get canceled.
I mean, hey, you know all about that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
unidentified
Right?
But there's a point in everyone's lives where you have decisions to make.
For me, this is so much bigger than me.
Who am I? I'm in my 50s.
I'm not playing sports.
I'm trying to do Peloton once a week.
There's a big difference between me and these young women like Riley Gaines or my niece, who's a good softball player, a good volleyball player.
So for me, it's...
It's about kids.
And speaking up for parents who might have that fear, especially to hang on to their job, because they might get an email like I did.
So if I don't use this to stand up for these parents and young girls, then shame on me.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Well, I agree.
And also, how can you respect yourself?
How can you sleep soundly?
How can you have dignity if you're reading someone else's script you can't?
So just give us a synopsis of...
Your life.
You said off camera that you'd grown up all around because you're from a military family.
unidentified
How did you get to ESPN? Oh, gosh.
Quite the...
I bet.
Army brat.
So when people say, where are you from?
You'd think at this point I'd come up with a better answer.
Everywhere.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
unidentified
By the time I was 11, I lived in four different countries.
Wow.
At the time, I spoke a couple languages, but now let's...
Stick with English.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
unidentified
Straight off the reservation there.
And then I went to Indiana University.
I'm a Hoosier.
Took all five years.
And then I think they were like, just take this diploma and leave, please.
Like, you're embarrassing us.
Just go away.
Got the piece of paper.
And then, listen, ESPN was always my goal.
Always my dream.
Wow.
I was 11 when I announced at the dinner table to my parents that I wanted to be a sportscaster.
And I was just super shy.
Girl.
I think all the moving, you know, just throughout my whole life probably made me extra shy.
But then it also, I think, subconsciously taught me that if you want to have friends on the kickball court, you know, at recess, certainly then into corporate America, like, you have to go make that happen.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
unidentified
So when I said I wanted to be a sportscaster, my dad and mom were like, okay.
And this is 1984. There were no women doing this when I was 11, 12 years old.
And they're like, okay, you're going to have to talk if you want to be on TV. So they had to really push me out of my comfort zone and push through that fear of being unliked, disliked.
Unliked is not a word.
See, English language.
Disliked.
If I'm myself, and that's why I was just shy.
And as a biracial young woman, my mom's white, Irish-Italian, my dad's black.
You felt different.
You were not enough for here and not enough for this side either.
So there's a lot of confusion.
So I look back and I'm grateful for being really uncomfortable and having great parents to push me through those times when I had this dream, but they were like, you're going to have to work extra hard.
To get there.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So did you wind up in a lot of places before ESPN? Yes.
unidentified
South Bend, Indiana.
First one, CBS affiliate in South Bend.
And then to Indianapolis.
So at like 22, it was a top 25 market.
You know, I was completely in over my head.
And the first woman doing sports in that city.
And we have NBA and NFL and all the college.
And so three-man sports department, I was definitely number four out of three.
Like number eight out of three.
But that's where there were certainly some experiences where it was obvious that they didn't want me there.
They weren't quite ready.
I knew I wasn't ready.
But I also, you know, what do you turn down an opportunity?
You take it.
And then you are humble, lead with humility, and ask everybody around you, lead with kindness.
Just like growing up as a kid, if you wanted friends when you kept moving across the world.
You're kind, and you lead with that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Of course.
unidentified
Yeah, so Indy, and then to Tampa, and then to D.C., D.C., Baltimore, Comcast, Sportsnet, for six years.
And actually, this is funny, and then I'll shut up.
I got my first offer from ESPN in 2004 and turned it down.
I was pregnant with my second child and knew I wanted at least one more, and I had a friend the late...
Great.
Stuart Scott, God rest his soul, he died of cancer nine years ago.
And he was everything at ESPN. Yeah.
And he was like, listen, I love you.
We had the same agent.
He's like, you need to be ready to go there.
And as a young mother, still trying to have more kids, you know, you'll get eaten alive.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
unidentified
Especially back then.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Of course.
unidentified
In the early 2000s.
It was a very different place.
So I really took a chance and was scared.
And even my agent, everybody said, you're nuts.
ESPN doesn't need you.
You need them.
And if you turn this down, you're going to be blackballed.
And I raised that family's everything.
And when you move across the world, and I have two younger brothers, it was the five of us.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
unidentified
So I knew that if I didn't follow through with that core principle in my family, as a mother myself, that I'm a hypocrite.
So I turned it down and took a chance that they'd call me back.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Aren't you glad you did?
unidentified
I'm so glad.
But I think it, again, I didn't look at it as a bigger picture thing.
It was just what I felt I had to do at that moment.
In hindsight, it was a I believe in myself thing and a faith in God where if this was meant to be, then I would get another chance.
But either way, I have my babies and I will never regret that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Well, exactly.
I've met a lot of people who regret a lot of things.
You know, tattoos, jobs, sexual encounters.
I've never met anybody who regrets a child.
Not one.
unidentified
Yeah.
That's what I say.
So many mothers will say, gosh, we're just not sure.
I'm like, are you asking my opinion?
If you're not sure, to me, that's your answer.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Exactly.
unidentified
You'll never regret, you know.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Having another child.
unidentified
But you might if you don't.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
I completely agree.
unidentified
So I'm grateful for that time and for taking a chance and then going and to be able to live out that dream that I had when I was a little girl.
How many people actually get to do exactly what they set out to do when they were 11?
At that network, it's a blessing.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Amen.
And in the end, you learn, I think it's fair to say, whatever TV network you work for, whatever company you work for, they don't really care about you.
unidentified
No.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Your children care about you, and always will.
unidentified
Even if they hate us.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Right?
It's a phase.
Thanks for watching our conversation with Sage Steele.
Almost nobody.
But the Heritage Foundation is.
Heritage has been around for about 50 years, but it seems newly energized.
And as proof of that, the president of Heritage, Kevin Roberts, recently went to Davos, Switzerland, with all the powerful people.
But he didn't go to Ben Dini to Klaus Schwab.
No.
He went to tell them to their faces how awful they are.
Here's what he said.
unidentified
I'll be candid here because I think I've been invited here to be candid.
Elites tell us that open borders and even illegal immigration are okay.
The average person tells us in the United States that both robbed them of the American way of life.
Elites also tell us that public safety isn't a problem in big American cities.
Just travel to New York or Washington or Dallas, Texas.
The average person will tell you that the lack of public safety damages not just the American way of life, but their life.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Well, amen.
If you want to know more about Heritage, go to heritage.org slash Tucker.
We recommend you do.
So, was ESPN political when you got there?
unidentified
No.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Right.
That's what I thought.
unidentified
No.
No.
And it's interesting.
We did.
See?
We.
How long do you do that for?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Quite a while.
unidentified
I, you know, look back.
And you realize, gosh, we were kind of inching closer and closer, and especially when Trump won in 2016. And then it was like, just wow.
I remember talking to my bosses, so this is 2016, 2017, and saying, what are we doing?
And why are we allowing this?
Michael Jordan said it in the 80s.
Republicans buy sneakers, too.
And because he was criticized, as Tiger Woods has been criticized for not being vocal enough for the black community politically.
And to me, they're smart businessmen who say, no, no, no, I want everybody.
So I would use that example to my bosses at my sports network.
Like, don't we want everybody to watch ESPN? Why divide?
I believe if people want politics, they can go to CNN. They can go to Fox News.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Of course.
unidentified
They came to us.
As a respite and as an escape.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Exactly.
unidentified
And so why, why, why?
And then that president was ousted, a little drama, and then the new president came in, and I think it was 2017, Jimmy Pitaro, and he agreed, and it was great.
And he kind of threw the line in the sand, like, we're not doing this.
We want everybody to watch.
And then the pandemic hit, and then George Floyd happened, and...
It's been a mess since.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So your read is that the president of ESPN was really trying to just be a sports channel, but he was overwhelmed by events.
unidentified
The current president, yes, yes.
And then listen, who are we owned by?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Well, good point.
unidentified
Disney.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, a very political, very left-wing company.
unidentified
Yes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So I just got to go back to what we said in the intro about your interview about Barack Obama on a podcast.
I find that really interesting and very confusing.
Can you explain what you said and what you meant?
unidentified
Yes, gladly.
It was with Jay Cutler, the former Bears quarterback.
And, you know, he had a really good research staff who picked out a couple of topics that I had spoken on in the past.
And it was actually a story from 2014. I didn't bring up Barack Obama.
Barbara Walters.
I brought up Barack Obama when I was on The View in 2014 when Obama was still president.
Barbara, in particular, wanted to talk about why I chose to identify as biracial.
Like, identify?
Well, I am.
I don't know why this is controversial.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Why are you choosing to acknowledge reality?
unidentified
Yeah.
But I said, absolutely, bring it up.
And so we're live on The View, ABC. You know, we're all the same family.
And said, well, why do you choose to say you're biracial?
And I said, and she goes, Barack Obama doesn't.
And I said, okay.
I said, I think it's interesting for the president to, you know, completely forget about the fact or ignore the fact that he was raised by his white mother and white grandmother.
And his black father was nowhere to be found.
Now, that wasn't breaking news.
He wrote a book about that.
I'm not criticizing.
I'm saying these will be facts.
So to me, it was interesting that he chose to completely ignore his white side and identify as black.
My personal opinion, which I've never really said publicly, is, OK, this was planned.
This was political.
Everyone knew what they were doing when they were.
He's coming up through Chicago.
They had a plan for Obama for many, many, many years.
But I did say, you do you.
I'm going to do me.
And I. I don't know.
I'm pretty sure my white mother was there the day I was born.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
In the vicinity, anyway.
unidentified
I don't know when I'm there.
And I said, but I'm so proud.
I'm so proud to have been raised in this beautifully diverse family where my white family loves me as much as my black family.
Isn't that what we want?
And so to me, that wasn't controversial, but I will never ignore my mother.
And so that got me in trouble.
So she brought up Obama in 2014. And so fast forward to 2021, this podcast.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So can I just ask, did people respond negatively to you saying that?
unidentified
Yes, there definitely was some negativity.
And Barbara went, ugh.
And listen, she's not here to...
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Right.
unidentified
There's nothing personal, but these are just the facts of what happened and then what led to the 2021. Yeah, there were several people.
In 2014, Twitter, I don't think, was what it is now, X, and certainly how crazy it's gotten.
But I did get some...
Listen.
Throughout my life, the most criticism I've received, especially since probably 2016, 2017, when I've given opinions on things, the most criticism I've received is, unfortunately, from people who look like me, from the black community.
And so the criticism that day in 2014 was, well, she's a sellout and look at her white husband and, you know, all of these things.
And so that used to break me.
That used to really devastate me.
Wow.
When you're a biracial kid growing up and you're, you know, you kind of are told you have to choose sides.
And I never did.
My parents...
Gave me that strength, despite the shyness, to say, no, no, no, this is who I am.
And why is that bad?
Not knowing that 30 years later, this would be such a controversial thing.
But, you know, so I was just recapping that story in 2021 and reiterated it.
And then that, me describing what happened with Barbara Walters, turned into, in 2021, Sage Steele hates Black people and thinks Barack Obama should not identify as Black.
And I said, no, no, no.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Hates Black people?
unidentified
Oh.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Your dad's black.
unidentified
You can't make it up.
You can't make it up.
But when I got suspended by ESPN, they did bring that up to me.
Like, why are you talking about Obama?
What do you mean?
So you're not allowed to talk about Obama?
Not if you don't follow the narrative.
If I had said, listen, I grew up in a biracial household, but I'm a black woman.
I would probably still have a job.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Maybe I'm overthinking or perhaps underthinking it, but it does seem very strange.
I thought the whole point of the melting pot idea was that we're all people inside and that the left is certainly not against people of different races getting together and having children.
I don't think they're against that, are they?
They don't seem to be.
So why would they get mad if you say, I'm the product of...
Of mixed-race marriage.
I just think it's like the craziest thing I've ever heard.
unidentified
You know that one drop rule we've heard for years, which I guess I just don't care enough.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Right.
I agree.
I agree with that, actually.
unidentified
Like, whatever.
I'm 50-50.
I'm a little bit of both, you know?
And to me, with where we are today, we're DEI and diversity and inclusion and, you know, all of the things, acceptance and tolerance.
Don't I kind of define that?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I would think so.
unidentified
You know, and so I've been so confused by it, but...
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Hey, it's Tucker Carlson.
The internet is crowded with interesting things that don't really matter.
On TCN, we attempt to bring you interesting things that actually do matter, and a lot of them.
Interviews, long form and short videos, documentaries.
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