Nov. 7, 2023 - The Tucker Carlson Show
27:21
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| The two defining tragedies of our age, the war in Ukraine and the presidency of Joe Biden, are finally both inevitably coming to an end. | ||
| Both have outlived their usefulness. | ||
| To assess what this means for the rest of us, and who should be taking a victory lap, Glenn Greenwald, host of System Update on Rumble, joins us now. | ||
| Glenn, thanks a lot for coming on. | ||
| So the war in Ukraine, Which some have pointed out for nearly two years now was never going to be won by Ukraine since Russia has a population of over 100 million more people, is finally, apparently, headed for peace talks. | ||
| NATO seems to have acknowledged that this is not actually going to work. | ||
| What do you make of that? | ||
| I think it's important to go back and remember what was said at the beginning, the propagandistic framework, not to take credit or assign blame, but to realize how often we're deceived by exactly the same emotionally manipulative tactics. | ||
| We were told by the people who wanted the U.S. involved in this war, not just involved in it, but to fuel it, to prevent diplomatic negotiations from taking place with the possibility of ending the war very early on. | ||
| We were told by those people that they were so concerned about Ukraine. | ||
| And so concerned about Ukraine that the United States had to send tens of billions of dollars over there and all sorts of weaponry and flood the country with arms in order to protect Ukrainians. | ||
| And anybody, like the two of us and other people, who stood up and said, this isn't a good idea, this is going to be counterproductive. | ||
| We were accused of not caring about the Ukrainians, of cheering for the Russians, when none of that was true. | ||
| All along, the point was that there was no way Ukraine could possibly win a war against Russia, a country way larger with a much better military, even if NATO is behind it. | ||
| The only thing that is going to happen is that this war will be prolonged. | ||
| Huge numbers of young Ukrainians and then older Ukrainians, not people who volunteered, but who are conscripts. | ||
| Zelensky has been fighting with the conscript army since the beginning. | ||
| Are going to die and at the end there's going to be a negotiation that says that Russia will end up being able to Protect the part of Eastern Ukraine it believes had people in it who are largely Russian, Russian-speaking, ethnic Russians, who are being oppressed by Kiev. | ||
| They will keep Crimea. | ||
| There's no way for these maximalist war aims ever to be achieved. | ||
| And now here we are two years later, in part because the West is just tired of funding this war. | ||
| The counteroffensive that we were all told would change everything was a tremendous disaster. | ||
| They barely have any people left to fight. | ||
| They're now dragging 45 and 50 year olds off buses and sending them to the front. | ||
| And the United States has a brand new war that it seems more excited over. | ||
| And now they're finally telling the Ukrainians and so is NATO. Look, the gig is up. | ||
| It's time for you to sit down at the negotiating table. | ||
| And we're now in a position where NATO has to beg Russia to be happy to keep 20% of Ukraine, which is what they've controlled pretty much without any change for the last year or even year and a half as tens of billions of dollars were wasted and thousands upon thousands of lives were extinguished. | ||
| And I would argue it's even worse than that, since the Biden administration and our European allies provoked this war on purpose. | ||
| They've known for 20 years that the red line for Russia was NATO expansion onto its borders. | ||
| And they sent the Vice President Kamala Harris to the Munich Security Conference two Februaries ago to tell Zelensky, we want you in NATO, knowing that this would provoke a war. | ||
| I mean, I don't see any other way to read it. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, this idea that if you talk openly about providing a security relationship with Kiev, or especially talk openly about allowing NATO to go right up to the most sensitive part of the Russian border by including Ukraine in the alliance, the idea that that would provoke an automatic war with Russia, between Russia and Ukraine, is something that Washington has known for decades. | ||
| There's a famous memo in 2008 written by the current head of the CIA, Bill Burns, who wrote to Condoleezza Rice and other And I absolutely | ||
| think, Tucker, that, you know, One of the things that is, I think, the greatest fraud of this war is that the people who kept claiming they were so concerned about Ukrainians were in fact... | ||
| Totally indifferent to the Ukrainians. | ||
| They were willing to sacrifice Ukrainians and Ukraine at the altar of getting back at Russia. | ||
| I think in large part because they wanted to extract vengeance against Russia for what they perceived to be Russia's role in helping Donald Trump win the 2016 election and causing Hillary Clinton to lose. | ||
| And they were willing to sacrifice an entire country and to wipe out tens of thousands of lives of young people who didn't want to fight in order to fulfill their political goal of extracting vengeance against Russia, weakening Russia. | ||
| And they've been saying for the last several months, as American support for this war is eroding, oh, look at how great this war is. | ||
| We don't have to lose any of our lives. | ||
| We're just having Ukrainians die and we're just spending a bunch of money. | ||
| But Americans are dying, only Ukrainians, for this goal of weakening Russia. | ||
| They were the ones who didn't care about the Ukrainians. | ||
| They saw Ukrainians as pawns that they were willing to sacrifice. | ||
| And that's exactly what they did. | ||
| It's really obscene. | ||
| This is almost a rhetorical question, but isn't this the point in the story where we pause and the people who behaved in the way you just described, which is grotesque, where they apologized for what they did and apologized to the people they maligned by calling them Putin apologists or tools of the Kremlin or disloyal Americans? | ||
| Isn't that kind of a necessary step in recovering from this disaster? | ||
| It is, but the biggest problem with our political media culture is that There is no accountability. | ||
| So many of the loudest voices urging the United States to get involved in this war and attacking and demonizing anybody who was opposed as being Russian agents or unpatriotic or whatever, they didn't come from the same ideological camp. | ||
| In many cases, they were literally the very same people who did exactly that. | ||
| After 9-11, anybody who stood up and said, I'm against the Patriot Act, or I have concerns about NSA spying, or I don't think we should invade Iraq or drone bomb countries all over the world, the David Frums and the Bill Crystals and the Cheney family, those were the people standing up and saying, anyone opposed to our wars are unpatriotic, they're on the other side, and none of those people ever paid a price for what they did, lying the country into the war in Iraq, destroying a country of 26 million people that gave rise to ISIS. They are promoted. | ||
| Jeffrey Goldberg helped sell the lie. | ||
| He was one of the main people in the media selling the lie that Al-Qaeda was responsible with Saddam Hussein for planning the 9-11 attack. | ||
| He's now the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic. | ||
| They get promoted for these lies. | ||
| And so there won't be any accountability. | ||
| These very same people, Victoria Nuland, are all still in power and they're going to continue to use these tactics because they never pay a price. | ||
| To the contrary, they end up getting rewarded for it. | ||
| It's a very familiar template. | ||
| So their real aims are domestic. | ||
| They use foreign conflicts to make change in the United States, to make the country, in fact, less democratic. | ||
| But they use those conflicts abroad to divide the United States. | ||
| So we're going to do this. | ||
| We're going to spend all this money. | ||
| We're going to imperil America's national security. | ||
| And if you don't like it, then you are a tool of fill in the blanks. | ||
| Saddam, Putin, Hamas. | ||
| It seems like a uniquely poisonous way. | ||
| Of running a country. | ||
| And not at all good for the country. | ||
| No, I think that's exactly right. | ||
| It would be bad enough if the United States were just going around spending all of Americans' money to fuel foreign wars. | ||
| But what they're doing at the same time with these foreign wars are using them as a pretext to erode the core... | ||
| Constitutional and civic rights of American citizens here at home. | ||
| So when they wanted to launch the so-called War on Terror, they ushered in the Patriot Act that gave vast powers to the FBI and the CIA of all kinds of detention and surveillance powers. | ||
| They empowered the NSA to spy on Americans without the warrants required by the Constitution. | ||
| Newt Gingrich wanted to rewrite the First Amendment in order to usher in censorship measures in the name of the War on Terror. | ||
| They did the same thing with the war in Ukraine. | ||
| Some of the greatest censorship on big tech came from those people who were questioning NATO narratives, who were standing up and saying... | ||
| I don't think these things are true. | ||
| I don't think these things are wise. | ||
| The EU made it illegal to even give RT a platform. | ||
| So every single one of these wars results in fewer and fewer rights for Americans here at home. | ||
| And now we're seeing the exact same thing, Tucker, with this insistence. | ||
| And the Biden administration is fully on board in partnership with Republicans to provide billions and millions of dollars, not this time to Ukraine to fuel their war, but to Israel to fuel their war. | ||
| And what we've been seeing from the people advocating that is this There's an insistence that those who stand up and say, I'm not in support of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. | ||
| I don't think the United States should treat this war as our war. | ||
| You don't have to agree with that or not, but there's so many efforts now to say people saying this should be censored. | ||
| What they're saying is illegal. | ||
| They're invoking all the theories that the liberal left have been invoking for years now to justify censorship of the views they dislike. | ||
| Oh, this is inciting violence. | ||
| This is going too far. | ||
| This is hate speech. | ||
| This is against a vulnerable minority group. | ||
| And now we're seeing the same kind of erosion of free speech here in the United States on the part of Americans, because now there's another foreign war that's always part of the equation, the domestic aspect to it, that vests more power in the government and takes away more and more rights from Americans. | ||
| What's so terrifying to me, though, is that the right, the American political right, which really was through this kind of weird transformation that's happened over the past dozen years, has become the lone defenders of the First Amendment. | ||
| They've abandoned that in the last month, like, instantly. | ||
| So I think you could say, you know, I strongly support Israel. | ||
| I strongly dislike Hamas. | ||
| I'm rooting. | ||
| Maybe I think we should commit troops to the region. | ||
| I mean, whatever. | ||
| You can have any view you want. | ||
| However, American citizens have a right to express their opinion. | ||
| Period. | ||
| And that supersedes any other event in any other country. | ||
| It's like, that's a core right. | ||
| And I don't hear many conservatives saying that. | ||
| And so you sort of wonder, like, if they're not defending it, who will? | ||
| I mean, there are people who have built their careers, Tucker, over the last five, six years, standing up and saying, We can't have cancel culture. | ||
| We can't have censorship. | ||
| College students aren't entitled to feelings of safety. | ||
| We don't censor in order to protect people from views they find threatening, mocking the notion that minority groups are vulnerable and we have to censor in order to protect them. | ||
| Turn on a dime and now become the leading voices saying, because American Jews feel unsafe, that's valid in a way that, say, claims from black people or LGBTs or Latinos aren't valid. | ||
| And because of that, we need to censor. | ||
| Fortunately, there have been some conservatives, influential ones, who have been quite consistent. | ||
| Candace Owens, for example, had a... | ||
| Very public argument with Megyn Kelly in which he was saying, we're not the left. | ||
| We don't get people fired for their political views. | ||
| We don't believe in using the law to silence people. | ||
| There have been Vivek Ramaswamy on your show. | ||
| He just wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal saying we're not going to defeat Hamas through censorship or cancel culture in the United States. | ||
| And I think the biggest example and the most important one, which is FIRE.org, that became very popular among conservatives in the United States because they were defending the rights of free speech on campuses for conservative students. | ||
| At a time when the ACLU wouldn't, stood up and vehemently denounced Ron DeSantis for a grave direct attack on the First Amendment when he tried to ban a pro-Palestinian group on campus on the grounds that they're providing material support for Hamas, even though he doesn't claim they did anything other than express their views. | ||
| And I think this is the point. | ||
| You are allowed to stand up in the United States and say, I think the United States should bomb Iran into oblivion. | ||
| I think we should turn Gaza into a parking lot. | ||
| Lindsey Graham stands up every day. | ||
| He calls for violence of that kind, and he's protected by the First Amendment from doing so. | ||
| You also, though, as an American, are allowed to stand up and say, I think Israel is at fault in this conflict because of the occupation and the blockade. | ||
| I think that people in Palestine have a right to fight back. | ||
| I think that violence is justified because Israel has become oppressive. | ||
| You can think all those views are repulsive, but leave the question of what you think of those views to the side. | ||
| No question Americans have a right to express them, and there has been a Assertive effort on the part of many conservatives, including many who have led the way in mocking claims of victimhood and victimhood narratives by minority groups and the idea that people need to feel safe. | ||
| They are now the ones turning around and saying, no, because of how dangerous this speech is, we need to ban it. | ||
| We need to ban these protests. | ||
| We need to ban student groups. | ||
| We need to put people on no-hire lists. | ||
| The exact kind of tactics they spent five or six years up until a month ago Aggressively denouncing, and it's very dispiriting, even though it's not surprising, the minute that they have views that they find offensive for them to watch them and turn around and use all the same theories to say those views cannot be expressed. | ||
| That is incredibly dangerous because in the future when conservatives want to complain about the censorship regime that has been implemented, who will possibly take them seriously after we just watch them the minute... | ||
| There was an issue of great importance to them, which is Israel, turn around and call for censorship. | ||
| Obviously, it's not a principle. | ||
| The only time you defend free speech is when it comes to views you agree with. | ||
| Anybody can do that. | ||
| That's easy to do. | ||
| That's worthless. | ||
| The only real test of whether you believe in free speech is whether you defend the right to express the views you find most offensive. | ||
| And a lot of conservatives, not all, are woefully failing that test. | ||
| I have to say, I am surprised. | ||
| I was shocked by it. | ||
| I am shocked by it. | ||
| And I'm shocked not just by how little they care about freedom of expression, but also about the emotion involved. | ||
| So for the past, I don't know, 20 years, it's been a staple of demonstrations on college campuses to attack the United States. | ||
| It's a garbage country. | ||
| It was built on chattel slavery. | ||
| It's fundamentally illegitimate. | ||
| The New York Times devoted an entire year to telling us that the United States is a fundamentally racist country. | ||
| And it's an awful, it's an immoral place, fundamentally, from its inception. | ||
| And nobody said anything about it. | ||
| Nobody stopped sending money to UPenn over that when they were attacking the U.S. or white people. | ||
| None of that even registered with anybody. | ||
| But the second a foreign country gets criticized, we've got to shut it down. | ||
| I mean, where's the concern for the United States? | ||
| Or is that a stupid question? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you know, I had Mike Johnson on my show, the new speaker of the House, two months ago, and I walked away with a somewhat positive impression, and yet I was amazed that, you know, we have this ritual in the United States. | ||
| It's not very common. | ||
| We elect a new speaker. | ||
| It's only happened 56 times in the whole history of our country. | ||
| And the new speaker sends up this tribune, and he gives a speech to try and tell Americans what his speakership will be about. | ||
| And Mike Johnson had one opportunity to do that, and he said the very first thing we're going to do, and Americans were like, what are you going to do for us? | ||
| Are you going to end the fentanyl crisis? | ||
| Are you going to keep drugs out of our country? | ||
| Are you going to provide better jobs for us? | ||
| Are you going to re-industrialize? | ||
| He said the very first thing we are going to do is pass a bill to help our friend Israel. | ||
| That's the first thing we're going to do. | ||
| And obviously there are a lot of people in the United States who have great affinity for other countries. | ||
| Rashida Tlaib has a Palestinian flag outside her office. | ||
| A lot of people have the Ukrainian flag flying inside their house. | ||
| And huge numbers of people have intense affinity. | ||
| For Israel, which is fine. | ||
| You're allowed to have that. | ||
| The problem becomes when you immediately abandon all of the principles that you claim to believe in in defense of this foreign country. | ||
| And the only reason, Tucker, I say that I wasn't surprised is because I have noted many times before that the American right does seem willing to give up free speech soon as the issue is Israel. | ||
| I think one of the most disturbing set of laws that we have that were enacted mostly by red state governors and red state legislatures And they've been invalidated by federal courts, thankfully, on the grounds that they violate free speech, but Andrew Cuomo did it too, are laws that say that if you want to work with the state, if you want to have a contract with our state, you have to sign a pledge vowing that you do not support a boycott of Israel. | ||
| Otherwise, you are not hireable. | ||
| You're allowed to support a boycott of any other country. | ||
| You can boycott Peru. | ||
| You can boycott South Korea or Russia or China. | ||
| Whatever other country you want to boycott, that's totally fine. | ||
| Boycott that. | ||
| You're even allowed to boycott other states in your own country. | ||
| You're allowed to harm the economies and the businesses of your fellow citizens. | ||
| And in fact, Andrew Cuomo, when he announced by executive order that if you support a boycott of Israel, you can't get hired by the state of New York, Andrew Cuomo, the very same one, Issued by executive order, boycotts of Indiana and North Carolina on the grounds that they had enacted bathroom bills for trans people that he found offensive. | ||
| So there were a lot of red states and red state governors enacting these laws that say, if you want to... | ||
| Work with the state. | ||
| You're free to boycott any other country or any other state in the United States. | ||
| You just can't boycott Israel. | ||
| And there's been a lot of those kinds of tolerance for that sort of thing, because obviously the United States is a very pro-Israel country, and it's a winning political issue among a lot of American Jews, but also a ton of American evangelicals or just national security hawks. | ||
| And there has been tolerance for erosion of free speech in the name of Israel before, but nowhere to the extent that we're now seeing. | ||
| And I agree that the severity... | ||
| I would like to think there's an even bigger constituency for pro-America, but there doesn't seem to be, at least it's not represented in the Congress. | ||
| So I have to ask about President Biden. | ||
| These polls come out over the weekend showing that he's losing in a theoretical matchup among registered voters in five out of six swing states, the biggest swing states. | ||
| It looks like if the election were held today, not much changes, he would lose. | ||
| And immediately you have David Axelrod, Bill Kristol, you know, pretty devoted Biden voters saying we need a new guy. | ||
| What do you make of that polling? | ||
| Do you think it reflects reality? | ||
| And what do you think will happen to Biden? | ||
| I think the most amazing part about this, Tucker, is that if any leading American politician had even gotten near the possibility of an indictment 10 years ago, The prospect of them running for high office would be instantly over And here you have Donald Trump who has been indicted on felony charges in four different American jurisdictions, two state jurisdictions, two federal jurisdictions. | ||
| And not only has it not harmed him, it actually has helped him in the polls for sure among Republican voters. | ||
| His lead has expanded every time he's indicted. | ||
| But also among American independents and even groups that traditionally support Democrats almost reflexively like black voters who... | ||
| 22% of in this latest poll, we've seen similar polls say they would vote for Trump over Biden and 42% of Latinos. | ||
| And what this shows is that Americans have really come to the conclusion that our leading institutions of authority are radically corrupted. | ||
| Our media outlets are radically corrupted. | ||
| The Department of Justice and the legal system has been aggressively politicized. | ||
| And so now Donald Trump is in a position where he's facing serious felony charges. | ||
| I don't think they're serious in the sense that they're real, but they're serious in the sense that if he's convicted, he'll go to jail. | ||
| They're felony charges. | ||
| And yet his lead is expanding over Joe Biden, in part because people, I think, see the injustice of it. | ||
| But also everybody can just look at Joe Biden and see that he is not a person. | ||
| Capable of even managing his own life, much less the country. | ||
| And there's no cure for that. | ||
| That's not going to get better. | ||
| That's only going to get worse. | ||
| What their strategy now is, is to basically say to Americans, and I've seen many articles about this, many things on television, the problem is that American voters are ignorant. | ||
| They're ill-informed. | ||
| They're low-information voters. | ||
| And that's why they're deciding this way, because the Democratic Party, I think, is stuck with Joe Biden. | ||
| If he's not going to go anywhere, and he's the kind of politician who has never sacrificed his own personal self-interest for any kind of greater cause, there's no reason to expect that he would do so now, they're tied at the hip to him. | ||
| And they see these polls and are in extreme panic mode. | ||
| I think if you have liberal friends, you should definitely check on how they're doing after that last poll because it's not just a Biden collapse. | ||
| It's in key swing states, all of which he won in 2020, where Trump now has a significant lead despite four indictments. | ||
| So all their efforts to try and destroy Trump have failed, at least until now. | ||
| And I don't think the Democratic Party is going to abandon Joe Biden. | ||
| If he wants to run, he's going to be their nominee. | ||
| So there seems, and maybe we're imagining this, we pulled together a montage of media coverage of Biden recently. | ||
| I want you to listen to it. | ||
| It does seem... | ||
| A little different from what I remember last time I watched TV. Here it is. | ||
|
unidentified
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A stunning New York Times Sienna poll shows that Donald Trump leading Joe Biden in Nevada, Georgia, Arizona, and Michigan. | |
| The number of Americans who think that things are going badly in the country today has hit its high for the year. | ||
| So you might expect any incumbent to be down as Biden is. | ||
| But then look at these positive views of what people think will happen for them financially if Donald Trump wins. | ||
| Way more voters think they'd be better off. | ||
| I guess the big news in the poll is that Biden is losing to Donald Trump because of huge losses among black voters and young voters. | ||
| The more diverse the swing state, the farther Mr. Biden was behind. | ||
| And he led only in the whitest of six. | ||
| Then let's look overseas. | ||
| There's more voters, we find, who think that it's Trump. | ||
| That would keep the U.S. out of a war if he wins. | ||
| This is probably going to lead to a lot of Democrats increasing the chatter that Joe Biden should step aside and make room for another Democrat. | ||
| I love that white liberals are the only people who like Biden so perfect. | ||
| But the media don't appear, maybe I'm reading too much of this, they don't appear to be downplaying this, much less ignoring it. | ||
| They seem to be highlighting Biden's weakness. | ||
| What do you make of that? | ||
| I mean, it's just, they're so grim. | ||
| They're like, you know what it reminds me of? | ||
| Have you seen those montages where the media started off election night 2016 incredibly excited and happy, and as the night wore on, they get bleaker and bleaker and more and more depressed until it finally sinks in, and by the time they're so destroyed and practically in tears, that's the tone. | ||
| I think what they're trying to do is to put pressure on the Democrats and Biden to say, look, this is serious now. | ||
| It doesn't seem like you have any chance of winning. | ||
| In a last-ditch hope to try and convince Biden to step aside of the Democrats to force him to, of course the media is, I mean, completely petrified of the idea that Trump would win, even though part of them knows it will help their careers like it did the first time around. | ||
| But they really are scared of Trump. | ||
| They really view Trump as this ultimate menace. | ||
| And I think those horrified tones are about the fact, two things. | ||
| One, there's obviously a good chance Trump will win, and they can't understand that. | ||
| And I think that's the other thing is, All they've been saying for six years is that Trump is a white nationalist, that Trump is a racist, that Trump hates all minorities. | ||
| And here you have increasing numbers of non-white voters doing the exact opposite of what you would expect them to do if they trusted or believed what those people have been saying. | ||
| Namely, they're voting for Donald Trump, the racist white nationalist candidate who wants to put them all into camps. | ||
| And so if you're an employee of these media outlets and you look at these polling numbers, you realize that these people have tuned you out. | ||
| They don't care what you say anymore. | ||
| They don't trust what you say anymore. | ||
| They have completely lost any control or influence over how Americans reason because most Americans are smart enough to have come to the conclusion that those people that you just showed in the media outlets for which they work are absolute liars, are just propagandists and people who exist to deceive. | ||
| And that is the good news, that these institutions where people have lost faith in deserve to have lost their faith and trust. | ||
| They deserve the contempt and hatred they provoked. | ||
| And it's good that Americans are... | ||
| And it's good that those people there, even though they'll never question whether they are to blame, are also starting to see that nothing they say really matters and makes a difference any longer. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And they do exist to deceive, so nicely put. | ||
| One last question. | ||
| I have to just ask, since this is on tape, what is your prediction for how the next year, where exactly a year from the election, plays out? | ||
| Is it Trump versus Biden, November? | ||
| I mean, what do you think is going to happen? | ||
| I mean, it seems to me like Republican voters have very consistently made clear that Trump is their candidate. | ||
| I just wanted to add one point about this next year, which I think is so important. | ||
| I know it's taboo. | ||
| We're not supposed to ever say anything good about Trump. | ||
| But the reality is, Tucker, and I think people are going to realize this more and more, is that Trump was the first American president in decades, in decades, not to involve the United States in a new war. | ||
| Whereas here you have Joe Biden. | ||
| Seemingly, there's a new war popping up all the time. | ||
| He wants to involve the United States in every one, send all their money overseas for them. | ||
| And at the same time, they remember that the economy was vibrant and good before COVID hit. | ||
| You can't lie to the American people about their own experiences, their lived experiences, the left likes to say. | ||
| And I think as the next year approaches, people are going to start to think about and compare what their lives are like under Joe Biden, where there's wars everywhere and inflation and economic turmoil, what it was like during Donald Trump. | ||
| And I think they're going to be increasingly immune to the propaganda. | ||
| And to me, I don't see anything in the Republican Party, obviously, that can change, that suggests They will abandon Trump. | ||
| Now, maybe the one variable is that if Trump is actually convicted rather than just indicted and charged as he is now, maybe that will change Republican voters or maybe that will change the electorate as a whole. | ||
| I don't think so, though, because I think they look at this judicial system. | ||
| There's nothing that Trump did that feels like a traditional crime. | ||
| It's not rape. | ||
| It's not murder. | ||
| It's not embezzlement. | ||
| It's not bribery. | ||
| There are these very kind of technocratic and obscure crimes he's accused of having committed. | ||
| And I just don't think that most Americans think that the former president should be imprisoned for anything like that. | ||
| So if I were a betting man, I think the odds look pretty good for Trump. | ||
| I think you're right. | ||
| I've never sent money to a politician, but if Trump is convicted, I'm sending him the max. | ||
|
unidentified
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I think a lot of people feel that way, just as a middle figure. | |
| Glenn Greenwell, thank you so much. | ||
| Great to see you. | ||
| Great to talk to you, Tucker. |
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