Adolf Hitler, Brace, and Liz dissect Epstein’s legacy through A Convenient Death, mocking Clinton-Maxwell rumors while exposing Ghislaine’s legal evasion—still untestified despite 2009 trafficking charges—and debunking epsteinheirs.com claims clashing with Virginia Roberts’ memoir. The Filthy Rich documentary earns a "half splat" (55%) for raw victim testimonies but glosses over Leslie Wexner’s ties, Hoffenberg’s Ponzi scheme, and blackmail networks involving Clinton, Trump, and Andrew, leaving systemic complicity untouched despite wired-surveillance hints. [Automatically generated summary]
Hi, and welcome to the New York Times The Daily podcast.
I'm your host, Adolf Hitler.
I think you've done that before.
Fuck!
I think you did that bit before.
I'm running out, man.
I'm running out.
See, the thing is, you're the only person I know that listens to that podcast.
I don't listen to the podcast.
I listen to it sometimes.
Listeners, Brace listens to that podcast.
I don't listen to any other podcast, Liz, except for one.
Racial Jakes.
I just want to see what you guys.
Let me make the Racial Jake bit hat, please.
Fine, do it.
I'm not doing the bit.
I was just saying to listen to his podcast.
No, just do the bit.
Get it out.
Hey, I'm Rachel Jake, and welcome to.
I'm just, the joke is like, what if like one of those, like, what if like Rachel Jake had a podcast?
Like a racist guy named Jake.
I don't want to do anything further than that.
I feel like that would get us a great hot water.
I'm glad that I could really let this one go.
What I was saying is that I listened to his podcast now.
Not that we had some good judgment here with saying maybe we don't go with this bit because it's not that funny because this bit is just the name.
Racial Jake?
How come you're smiling then?
How come you're smiling?
Both of you are smiling.
Yeah, because I'm looking at your dumb face.
Yeah.
Oh, my.
Well, thank you for saying my face makes you smile.
I hope you're still recording.
They're both laughing about Rachel Jake right now.
I don't like Rachel Jake.
I like Rachel Jake less than I like Michael Barbadoro.
I'm just saying.
Don't fucking do this to me.
Michael, Michael, it's like the non-Italian version of Michelle.
Barbadoro, which does sound Italian.
Barbadro.
All right.
Well, fuck him.
My name is Brace.
And I'm Liz.
Hello.
Welcome to True.
Of course, we are joined by producer Young Chomsky.
What's up?
Well, the, remember that?
We brought it back recently.
They did.
They brought it back, but those guys are in quarantine.
Yeah.
No, they didn't.
They swear to God they did.
I swear.
Oh, that was such a fun bit.
And then they got to ruin it by making it new again.
It's like, yeah, just leave it.
Just leave it.
Let us have our little retro movement.
Well, they're all CGI now because, you know, most of them are dead from Corona.
No, they're not CGI.
It's real, but it sucks.
It wasn't funny.
It was like, they did the was up bit, and then at the end, they're like, I've got like a handful of references, and they got to go ahead and ruin one right off the bat.
I know.
Well, that's why I was watching YouTube in the first place to get to figure out more references, which did not work.
Yeah, I didn't find really anything good.
YouTube is probably the worst medium known.
I say this as a podcaster with full acknowledgement that I'm a fucking loser.
YouTube is worse.
Yes.
It's very dorky.
I don't understand the aesthetic.
I think we've talked about it.
They're like, what?
Everyone's like, oh, it's my face, but I'm a cartoon.
But we're here to talk about why being white is problematic.
Crazy cartoon eyes.
Wow, wow.
White supremacy.
Everyone needs to chill the fuck out.
Okay.
Yeah, I don't know what kind of YouTube you're watching, but I watch 14-hour streams of someone playing a video game in order to connect.
It's like Heart of Darkness style.
By the end of it, I'm in a loincloth covered in animal blood.
Yeah, that's heart of the.
You're going into Heart of the Doomer.
Yeah.
Well, you know how like every episode we start and you're like, Brace, how come you didn't contribute to the notes?
It's like, oh, I've been watching video game streams for 14 hours every day since our last episode.
Well, usually I make up something when I tell you, like, I have kidney problems or stomach cancer.
None of this is true, listeners.
Brace is a diligent note-taker.
I am a diligent.
In fact, I'm taking notes on you guys.
He's our little nerdy boy.
I'm taking notes on both of your guys's behavior right now.
And I got to say, Liz, you are not doing very well.
Oh.
I'm also sketching.
I'm doing just fine.
Okay, let's.
We actually do have an episode today.
It's not just us having our classic witty banter.
Although I do enjoy that.
We are returning to form.
Jeffrey Epstein's Legal Justification00:15:42
We are talking about one and only Jeffrey Edward Epstein.
Yes, Jeffrey Epstein.
Now, we have a couple of things.
We've got some news to go over.
And then later on in the podcast, we are going to discuss, because a lot of people have been asking us.
We're going to discuss the brand new premiere lights, camera action, the Netflix documentary series, Jeffrey Epstein.
Filthy rich.
Yes.
Also, I want to say this now before I forget.
If anyone out there has cucumber or mango jewel pods, please DM the podcast.
I've been meaning to say that for several episodes now, and I have been forgetting.
So the first piece of, I don't know, I say what's so funny about that.
They're illegal.
I mean, I don't want, no, it's, listen, if this is illegal, I don't want them.
But I know I will, if you send them to me, I'll throw them in the bag.
So the first thing we have, we have is.
Oh, my God, Brace.
This will not be news to our dedicated fan base who know the ins and out of the Jeffrey Epstein story.
But a new book is out or is about to be out saying with the extraordinary claim that Bill Clinton had an affair with Ghillain Maxwell.
I say extraordinary because it's extraordinary that we're not the source for this.
Yeah, I think what you mean to say is ordinary because as you rightly point out, we already talked about this.
A million times.
It's one of my favorite things.
A million times.
It was in all the tabloids in like the 90s and the early 2000s.
We didn't get a book deal, by the way.
Before my birth.
Anyway, so the book is called A Convenient Death, The Mysterious Demise of Jeffrey Epstein by Alana Goodman and Daniel Halper, which is out June 2nd.
And yes, we will be reading that.
And the New York Post published an excerpt from the new book, which basically just says what Bruce just said, Bill and Ghillain were getting it on.
This is also kind of a gross way to put it.
A source who witnessed the relationships at an interview.
I love how they said witness the relationship.
It's like, did you witness that part of the relationship?
Yeah.
That's why he was around Epstein to be with her.
The source explained that reporters had been missing the point about the Clinton-Epstein relationship by focusing on Epstein's sex crimes.
Clinton's stupid, but not an idiot, the source says, dismissing the idea the ex-president was sexually involved with children.
Now, I just want to make a point real quick.
I hate it when people say that someone's, he's like dumb, but he's not stupid, or like he's stupid, but he's not an idiot.
All of those words mean the same fucking thing.
Like, you can't, I'm the smart moron?
Well, actually, I kind of am the smart moron, but like.
You ever heard of a thesaurus?
Hey.
Hey, look up thesaurus in the dictionary.
Classic.
Or just say, he's dumb, but he's not that dumb.
There used to be a job at newspapers.
There probably still is, that I've never looked into, but I've always enjoyed the name of, which is Rewrite Man.
They should make a movie like that, like Repo Man, but Rewan.
Exactly.
Riri Man.
I don't think so.
Well, Rirai.
So, yeah, I would have just said he's stupid, but not dumb.
There is no mention in this article of close.
I'm not going to say this right.
close Clinton confidante Doug Band.
The triple C. Doug Band who was really Bill's like main liaison with the Epstein Nexus and who often is basically if Doug Band is seen with a woman multiple times, that means that he's acting as a proxy for Bill Clinton.
That happened with Lewinsky and that happened with Ghillain.
You know, Bill Clinton, however, himself has been seen out with Ghillain before.
They were at, we ran into them at Nello's.
At what?
I don't know.
All right, so this.
It sounded right.
I liked it.
It sounded like a very like Y2K, like Upper Eastside eatery.
They were always called eateries back then.
No, they really did get seen at a place called Nello.
Oh, Nello, excuse me.
Madison Avenue, Italian Staple.
I thought you were talking about Ello.
Ello.
Yes.
They were the only two people on Ello.
And I think they went to a gala again.
And of course, Epstein and Clinton himself.
I mean, that's just Clinton and Ghelane.
Epstein and Clinton also hung out a multitude of times.
Wherever Epstein was, Ms. Maxwell was never far behind.
Yeah, so this piece is a little, I don't know.
Like we said, it's like, yeah, we already know about this.
I'll probably still read the book, but I did like this little detail, which I found pretty funny.
On July 31st, 2010, Maxwell was among the few guests to attend Chelsea Clinton's wedding, which, of course, we know.
The auspicious event followed an embarrassing incident for Maxwell.
Only a few months earlier while attending the Clinton Global Initiative in New York City at the end of an Indian summer in September 2009, I don't know why they included that detail.
It was a hot summer.
Yeah.
A process server walked through the packed lobby of the Sheridan Hotel and served Ghillain Maxwell papers for a deposition.
Maxwell was huddled in a small group talking to other guests as the server approached her.
He called out her name and with so many people surrounding her, Maxwell was unsuspecting.
She confirmed her identity and he served her notice.
The deposition was in relation to Epstein's sexual abuse case.
Ironically, photographs of Maxwell taken by a private investigator who accompanied the process server showed Maxwell receiving notice while standing beneath a human trafficking banner.
Human trafficking was the conference's theme at the 2009 Clinton Global Initiative.
To be clear, it was kind of like a how-to sort of thing.
Like there was various TED talks by Michael Gladwell, Jeffrey Epstein himself, Ghillain, about the most effective ways to human traffic.
Yes, Kel Ironico.
But yeah, no, that is, I would, if the guy, if the private investigator who took those pictures is out there, and if by some horrible coincidence he's listening to this, I will pay you basically any amount of money for a picture of Ghillaine Maxwell being served underneath that banner.
And Jewel pods.
Also, if you have Jewel Pods, which also sends us to us.
So there's other news with Ghillane in the news.
Messed that one up.
Correct.
So apparently, court agrees to delay testimony of Jeffrey Epstein confidant Ghillane Maxwell in a civil suit.
So in November of last year, Annie Farmer, Maria Farmer's younger sister, who's also a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, filed a lawsuit against Gillane and Epstein's estate.
And they've been basically attempting to compel Ghillane to testify in the civil case.
And Maxwell's attorneys famously, of course, have been really just doing everything they can to push against that.
Oh, yeah.
They've been hedging a lot on ever, ever getting to a point where Maxwell herself ever has to appear in court.
And I predict that will just basically go on indefinitely.
I think the legal route to get to Maxwell, especially if it's like a civil suit, is basically going to be fruitless because she, I mean, there's a lot to do.
There's a lot to the Maxwell and her lawyers sort of saga here.
But basically to sum it up, she's hiding behind them and they're claiming that they don't know where she is.
And I don't think that there's any way they can be compelled to actually say where she is.
So she, I think that like she's not going to reappear just to make a court appearance.
Yeah, the hunt for Gillane continues.
But yeah, so the judge basically said, okay, fine.
We're going to wait and halt the deposition request.
Or we're going to basically allow her not to respond to the deposition.
Not forever, but we're going to revisit it in the middle of June.
And they kind of cited the pending settlements with the estate to the victims, to the like victims fund, as justification for halting the deposition.
So she also, they also, the judge also cited Jeffrey Epstein's, like the ongoing federal criminal investigation into Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirators.
But from everything that I've heard, I don't know, I do not think that that's going to get very far.
Yeah, I mean, I have a question kind of about that because it seems like very convenient legal justification to kind of have this like, oh, no, we're continuing to look into the alleged co-conspirators, which no one knows because they haven't had to reveal their names, right?
And the feds can kind of just like have this hanging over any pending legal action, like for the foreseeable future.
Yeah.
As a kind of justification to halt any other civil action.
So I'm not a lawyer anymore due to a 1993 incident where I was able to get OJ Simpson acquitted, but with my coworker Alan.
But I do, I feel like that even speaking of Dershowitz, he could also use this justification in the civil suits that are ongoing with him.
Those things are a mess of legality.
So I don't really know exactly where they're at right now.
But presumably, like anybody, any of the unindicted co-conspirators can basically use the fact that there's this ongoing criminal investigation to block basically civil suits going forward.
Again, not a lawyer, don't know for sure, but that's what it seems like to me from this.
Yeah, it just seems very convenient, which is very frustrating.
Extremely, especially when you consider that from all we've heard, the FBI isn't even really looking for Ghelaine.
Yeah, I mean, I do keep kind of fantasizing because do you remember what Maria said about like how dramatic and theatrical Ghilane was?
Yes, absolutely.
So I do kind of keep fantasizing about like, what would be the most dramatic and fantastic way for her to like re-emerge in public?
I think, I don't know, I've always sort of pictured it happening at like an airport press conference, but I feel like she has so few allies right now.
Like it's not even like Prince Andrew style where you at least have like some automatic support that I don't know.
Maybe re-emerging in a submarine.
We do know that she can pilot them.
I wish she was like more diabolical and just started like kind of slowly popping up and like she was in one of those like spring break corona photos.
Yeah.
And you're like, is that Ghilane in the mask?
But you can't tell.
And then it's like, is that Ghilane in Minneapolis?
Like, it's just like every like public event, you're like trying to figure out where she is.
Well, we have basically heard that she's essentially on every continent.
She has not been reported in on being in Africa or East Asia, but she has been said to be in Israel, In the Midwest, being protected by Navy SEALs and being shunted from house to house, there was that one guy in Russia, which is a very confusing story that he had text messages.
He basically tracked her to a place in Brazil.
Although that seemed very strange to me, that whole sort of saga right there.
So, what that is basically to say is nobody knows where she is.
And she could be, I have a feeling if she's anywhere, it's probably Israel.
Especially really, I think she's like in the UK.
Well, yeah, okay.
That's that's that would be my second guess.
Yeah, because both of those places she has pretty uh strong base of allies.
Israel, though, I know that they have some weird extradition shit with the U.S. For instance, American pedophiles will go to Israel to live and and uh without fear of extradition.
There was like a 60 minutes um interview or not interview, excuse me, documentary about it at some point.
Yeah, I we should mention though, or remind our listeners that a couple of people we've talked to who are familiar either with uh comrades of Giloy Maxwell or people involved in the uh pending case say that the feds are like well aware of where she is and that she has been in contact with them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes I'm saying like they're not looking for her as I'm like, I don't think there's a giant manhunt out for her.
They either aren't looking or they know exactly where she is, which I can't imagine they don't know where she is.
Mean they know basically everything.
So next up we have um a kind of goofy story,
but with some with some sinister sort of undertones there.
There is a website that has been set up to find the children of Jeffrey Epstein, who are the illegitimate children of Mr. Epstein.
I have looked at this website.
You have, yeah, it's it's extremely strange.
Let me get it up on the uh on the old screen here.
But it's so this was created by a DNA company basically to find any possible heirs.
Uh, and they say they've heard from as many as 130 people claiming to be the convicted pedophile's child.
Yeah, so the website is called epsteinheirs.com.
It is set up by Morse Genealogical Services LLC.
Uh, it says legal notice.
I have no idea how any of this is legal or if it is.
The website, I will tell you, does not look like the most trustworthy thing.
Morse genealogical surveys locates missing and unknown heirs to estates worldwide.
Legal notice, unknown children of the late Jeffrey Epstein, contact us and there is a phone number 800-4410-4347.
Morse Genealogical Scam?00:02:10
But we're going to bleep that out.
It'll just be 555-55555.
Well, it's an 800 number, so I don't think we have to.
I don't know.
It also says, notice unknown children of the late Jeffrey Epstein with a stock photo of a small child with a bunch of question marks, very wide-eyed, pointing downwards for some reason.
What?
Yes, it is very strange.
If you believe you may have given birth to a child fathered by the late Jeffrey Epstein, who recently committed suicide, or that he may have been your biological father, please contact us immediately without delay.
Two exclamation points.
And then it has a bunch of, it says in the news, and then it has a bunch of instances where this was featured in a news article.
So very straight.
This reminds me of the like, you know, ambulance chaser billboards.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'm sure it's exactly something like that.
Like they're banking on getting somebody.
I mean, it's a very small chance.
In fact, I think there's basically no chance of there being a child.
Yeah.
But there is, you know, they're probably taking a bet that if they actually get someone who is, does happen to be his child, that they'll get a cut of that money.
Yeah, absolutely.
Two things.
If you or a loved one have been fathered by Jeffrey Epstein, please contact.
There is a couple things that make me feel like this is insanely unlikely.
One is that he had set up his eugenics ranch in New Mexico, where he had planned to father, you know, basically an infinite amount of children using young models.
But he never got that off the ground.
Never got it off the ground.
And then there was also sort of this excerpt from Virginia Roberts' memoir or Virginia Jeffrey's memoir, her unpublished memoir that was included in evidence.
I think this, the fact that they asked her to do this makes me feel it's very unlikely that he has a child that he does not know about.
Jeffrey's Sincere Moment00:03:19
So this is what she writes.
Jeffrey sat next to me and put his hand on my back and looked at me with a certain kind of sincerity I hadn't seen in him before.
I want to first of all tell you that over the last few years, you have shown me the kind of devotion and loyalty that I believe is rare to find among people these days.
Qualities I hold that high in regard.
Bewildered by the whole scenario, I just nodded every time he paused, trying to grasp what his intentions were getting at.
He continued to praise my nature, saying, I hope you know my appreciation for you embracing of my lifestyle.
You have been achieving a name for yourself among the friends I have introduced you to.
Everybody says basically the same thing about you, the same thing I believe.
You are a delightfully funny girl who has developed into a mature, graceful young woman, and I can think of nobody else I'd rather have a child with than you.
And just like that, he created a whole new dilemma for me to face.
In utter shock from the completely unexpected proposition, and before I could even think of anything to respond with, Ghilaine made the finishing touches with the business end of the deal, starting with the pros before the cons.
You would have round-the-clock nannies to help you.
Jeffrey would pay for a mansion of your choice in either Palm Beach or Newark, and as if the drum rolls were beckoning, and you would have a hefty monthly allowance from Jeffrey's bank account.
Astonished at their first offers, I nearly took the bait.
Then she continued to finish the terms of our pre-agreement with, but you would have to travel with the child where and when Jeffrey wanted you to be, and most importantly, you would have to sign a contract stating that Jeffrey and you are not monogamous and that the child would belong in Jeffree's custody in the event of a falling out between the two of you.
She kind of threw that last one in there quickly, as if she could get away with me not hearing that I would basically have to relinquish the rights to my own flesh and blood and surrender them to a life of servitude and abuse with these people.
My maternal alarm bells went off straight away and I already knew my answer.
No way I could do that to any poor baby.
God only knew what those monsters had in store for me, let alone a baby.
But it was an instant reaction that saved me.
I don't know, guys.
I mean, I'm really young and I never even really thought about having kids yet.
Wow, I just don't know.
I slicked my hand through my hair nervously and took in a silent breath.
I had to go beyond what I was truly feeling and give the feeling that I had never let them down.
Putting an eager smile on my face and sucking up my gut's intuition, I told them, you know what?
Let me get my certificates and massage and have some time to prepare for this and get healthy.
Then next year we'll all think about having a baby together.
It was crazy to even hear me say this out loud.
From the expression on their faces, I had fulfilled their wishes.
So as we can see, Epstein, for whatever reason, wanted to have a baby in these pretty, I mean, you could say peculiar circumstances, right?
And so because he was so sort of controlling and meticulous and methodical in the way that he interacted with the world and especially interacted with the world like this when it would come to like a child or something, I think it's exceedingly unlikely that he has a child that is not known.
James Patterson's Conspiracy Theory00:09:59
Yeah, that's just, I know what I that that was that that that I I will say, I think someone should publish that memoir.
Think she was blocked from doing it for somehow legally, or maybe she was afraid of.
I can't remember what the exact reason she never published it was, but it's, I think it's about 130 pages, at least the pertinent parts of the court case.
And I've been slowly reading it this past week.
So anyways, I do not think that he has a child out there.
Okay, okay, okay.
So...
So, first, before we get into this, we should say, I guess, spoiler alert.
I don't know what there is to spoil because if you're listening to our podcast, you probably know about Jeffrey Epstein.
I will say, are you supposed to say that?
Are you supposed to say that before you talk about movies and stuff?
Well, I did want to put a disclaimer here that I am, I don't watch movies.
Like, listeners to Truanon will know that I've mentioned this several times.
I basically never watch things.
And I'm not saying that to be like a guy who's like, I don't even fucking own a TV.
I do own a TV.
I just fall asleep when I put movies on.
And so I never watch them because I don't want to go to sleep.
And so I am not a movie reviewer.
Liz is like smart, so she can probably do this.
But I am, yeah, I rarely watch documentaries or true crime documentaries, rather.
I don't actually watch any true crime.
I really don't get into it.
Yeah.
I watch fake crime movies, which is like CSI and stuff.
These are called fake crime documentaries.
Okay, so we got the spoiler alert or whatever for all you whiny baby bitches out there.
Okay, we're talking about Jeffrey Epstein Filthy Rich.
So this is a four-part docus series that premiered on Netflix.
That is the Flicks for the Net on May 27th, just yesterday.
Curiously, premiered.
Now, this is my conspiracy theory.
They uploaded it or premiered it or whatever the same day as Uncut Gems.
I think.
Oh.
So people weren't paying attention.
A little bury the, you know, bury it on, bury the news story.
I think they were trying to balance out the Jews.
Like, we have this, we have this movie about Jeffrey Epstein, who is, who just is not a credit to me and our producers, Race.
But then you do have, then you do have this, you know, really wonderful story about one of us who really does this proud.
Did you see Uncut Gems?
No, again, I fell asleep in the first 10 minutes.
Yeah, Filthy Rich, baby.
It has pretty good reviews, I think, right?
Apparently, 77% fresh on the tomato meter, which is apparently a thing.
Although some reviewers, I liked these.
They didn't like it.
They gave it a splat.
That's what I call it.
I do like, I don't like the, I will say, I don't like the fresh.
I do like the splat.
Splat.
You know, it's like the green like this is in the end.
I don't feel like I learned anything from Jeffrey Epstein Filthy Rich beyond horrific details from RogerEbert.com reviewer Brian Talerico.
First of all, buddy, there's some pretty horrific details in there.
I'm kind of happy you learned them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But also, it's weird that you write for Roger.
I mean, Roger Ebert's dead, man.
Well, his website lives on.
Yeah, okay.
Well, there's another one that's, there's never a unifying theme or reason that helps a viewer understand why the Epstein saga still merits four hours of our undivided attention from the Washington Post critic Hank Stuver.
I think he should have put a, well, actually, to tell you the truth, I didn't read the full review, but he probably should have put a disclaimer in his own review that his boss, Jeffrey Bezos, was friends with Jeffrey Epstein.
Yeah, also, hey, Mr. Hank, one, stupid name.
Two.
I like the name Hank.
It's actually a nice name, but let me have this.
Cowboy name.
Okay.
Number two, actually, the Epstein saga merits about 73 hours of your undivided attention in podcast form.
True, it just maybe doesn't perform well as a movie.
And you think about that.
Happy to have podcast reviewers.
Well, so who made this fucking, I mean, who made this fucking documentary, baby?
Tell me.
So this is woman, Lisa Bryant, who I think this is her first, this is her directorial debut.
I'm really pronouncing her extra funny today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she was the producer on a bunch of different like TV miniseries that were kind of like true crime based.
So it seems to be kind of her like genre.
And it was also, this is actually funny.
It was co-produced with Joe Berlinger, who actually directed Metallica's Some Kind of Monster.
The fucking, the scariest horror film ever made.
I'm telling you.
I've seen that, right?
Oh, I've seen it many times.
Yes.
Dude, it fucking, I hate when people say this, but it owns.
Oh, it's, it's, it's so good.
It's incredible.
It's incredible.
If you haven't seen some kind of monster or Jeffrey Epstein Filthy Rich, go watch some kind of monster.
So I got to give Berlinger credit because some kind of monster is the guy when those guys were making that movie must have every single night just like collapsed into laughter when they when they got off set or whatever because it's incredible.
It's an incredible movie about some adult children going to therapy and letting their therapist write lyrics for their heavy metal album.
So yeah, so you like you said to be clear, hold on.
We didn't mention this yet.
His production company is called Third Eye Motion Picture Company.
Just wanted to put that out there.
I don't like that.
Yeah, I feel like this, you know, they do owe me some royalties for that.
I did invent the phrase third eye, but go on.
Well, okay, so like we said, this is her first film, directorial debut.
She, it's based on, but this is the funny thing.
Okay, so it's based on a book by James Patterson.
Now, Bracebridge.
I have read.
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about James Patterson?
So James Patterson is, well, first of all, the book he wrote is called Jeffrey Epstein Filthy Rich.
It was put out, I can't remember how many years ago.
I think it was like 2009 or something, 2010.
I don't remember.
I read the book.
It's a very breezy read.
It's like, you know how it's like that airport book shit where it's like the font is really big and it's like space pretty far apart to make it take up more area, which is a great scam.
But it glosses over some of the more, well, not it basically focuses on his like court case in Florida, but it does gloss over some of his bigger connections, or rather, like it refuses to sort of entertain what they might mean.
He dismisses Bill Clinton as having been involved in any untoward way, which judging from the news earlier, probably not true.
And basically, if you know much about Jeffrey Epstein, if you know even like a little bit, this won't teach you a whole lot.
The only thing that I found out from reading this that I hadn't found out from before that I didn't know from before was that Jeffrey Epstein was racist.
That he, I'm serious, that he, one of these girls once brought a African-American child over to his house and he sent her back and really forcefully said, don't ever fucking do that again.
So that makes sense.
I have not seen him with basically anybody but skinny young white girls.
But that's not about James Patterson.
About James Patterson is that he also wrote a book with Bill Clinton called The President is Missing.
And he has a new book coming out very soon with Bill Clinton called, get this, The President's Daughter.
And just let me read you the tagline or the synopsis.
Michael Keating is a former Navy SEAL, which, by the way, this podcast fucking hates.
We are against Navy SEALs 100%.
Michael Keating is a former Navy SEAL and a former president of the United States, now relocated to rural New Hampshire after a brave but ill-fated military mission cost him a second term.
All he wants to is to sink into anonymity with his family and a secret service detail.
But when he's briefed on an imminent threat against his daughter, Keating's SEAL training may prove more essential than all the power, connections, and political acumen he gained as the president.
That sounds awesome.
It's a weird book for a president and an ex-president who is not a Navy SEAL to write.
James Patterson writes all those, he writes all those crazy like mystery.
I mean, when you said airport book, like you will recognize this man from the airport.
Leslie Wexner's Complex Role00:15:48
Absolutely.
And the word on the street is that he actually doesn't write his books.
Sure.
Yeah.
Like Tom Clancy or maybe Tom Clinton.
I don't know.
I've never read any of these books.
Or John Updike.
Just kidding.
That's a joke.
Yeah, I don't know who that.
I'm just kidding.
Yes, I do.
Man, we are really, this is jokey day on Truanine.
I know.
I drank some sugar before we were going to do this.
I didn't at all.
I'm all natural, baby.
Because they cannot see you grooving like that.
Only I, Ellie, only we can see it.
So I watched this whole thing, which I got to say.
Yeah, me too.
Was difficult for me, not because of the content, but because of my movie watching.
What are your initial reactions?
Like, what are you thinking first off the bat after you watched it?
My initial reactions are it was really difficult listening to the victims.
Yeah.
And I do think that the document, like we're going to get into a lot, or I think we'll get into some gentle ribbing of some of the kind of like funnier aspects of the whole series or the stranger aspects.
But I do want to put a like important point here is like they really and I think it's commendable.
They really, really put the young women at the center of the story.
Yeah.
And you hear directly from them and it's really difficult.
And a lot of victims that I had never heard before.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I had to like, I'm, you know, whatever.
Not going to lie.
Like I had to pause it and I was like overwhelmed and I had to take a minute.
It's it's pretty difficult.
Yeah.
I will say like that's something that I, you know, this was not the documentary I would have made, but I'm not necessarily mad that these people made this document.
not mad at all that these people made this documentary because i do think that like if it does bring something like that's that's that's useful uh it is well first of all sort of telling people about this in the first place but more that it shows the victims and it allows them essentially a chance to talk about sort of what happened i i do think it's like just after our interview with maria farmer i do think it's sort of strange like i'm curious as to like what their full interviews were.
And I know this probably is not of general, I know this, of course, is not of general interest, but I'd be, I'd really like like, to basically see the full interviews that they did with people and like let them tell their stories in full.
Cause I think that's like, that's something I really got a lot out of our being able to interview a victim was to hear it from basically start to start to finish.
Yeah.
I think there is, there's a sort of strange line that they kind of, I don't know, like try to walk where it's like they want to paint him, or it seems like, at least in the first couple episodes, they really like go heavy on him being like singularly manipulative in a really like classic abuser way.
Yeah.
And, but also in the very like banal, I don't know, at least for me, and I don't know, maybe this is like because so much of what the victims were recounting didn't seem or didn't, there were very few stories in the initial episodes that were extraordinary.
And by that, I mean they, there was stuff that just sounded like that is, I think a lot of young women will watch and will be very familiar to them, which is an upsetting thing to say.
I mean, I don't even mean the specifics, but I just mean the kind of like the attitudes and the tactics, you know, the idea of like when you're a young girl who has low self-esteem, who has never thought of yourself as anything, who is poor, and an older gentleman with power is kind to you and takes interest in you and says nice things to you.
And those are the first times you've ever heard them.
That alone is both incredibly like powerful and also banal at the same time, I guess is what I'm getting at.
I see what you're saying.
Like these are pretty common tactics to like, I mean, that is why like people obviously tend to prey on, you know, lower income people and people that are less likely to have had like a super, you know, cohesive, supportive home or to be, you know, told that they're loved by their parents or whatever all the time.
I mean, not necessarily less likely, but you know, in their sort of gamble on the situation.
And so, yeah, that does seem like that would be not incredibly extraordinary.
I mean, they talk about you mentioned, like, they talk about Epstein as Fengali, and that is true.
Like, they do mention several, like, of the really strange details about him.
And then they kind of like don't go into them.
And they're like, well, he just, you know, he was able to work at the Dalton School without a degree.
And then kind of don't like pause on that and be like, this is incredibly strange.
Cause that is a really weird detail.
And then they talk about his transition to Bear Stearns and how like he was able to talk his way out of some trouble there.
And then like, you know, onwards and onwards and onwards.
But they never really stop and like show like, this is extraordinary.
Right.
Like this is not like a normal trajectory for anybody, no matter how smart they are.
Yeah, that's like sort of a thread throughout.
I mean, I think, I think the last two episodes almost contradict the first two in this way.
I wonder what you think because it seems like in the first two, they're really building this like psychological profile where it's like, okay, like you say, he's this Fengali.
He needs these massages.
He is like manipulative to these young girls.
He gets them, you know, they start calling it, you know, they characterize it as a sexual Ponzi scheme.
And we can get into like some of the problematics there.
But, and then the second episode really focuses on a lot of the financial stuff.
And it's very weird.
So they characterize him as just like this ingenious salesman.
And like basically it's like he lied his way into Dalton.
He lied his way into Bear Stearns.
And then they have Steven Hoffenberg on.
They do.
Who, by the way, okay, I don't know if our listeners know who Stephen Hoffenberg is.
Maybe our older listeners, he's a very famous, very famous CEO and or former CEO because he presided over the Towers like fucking Ponzi scheme that he like basically robbed people of like $500 million in the 90s.
And I guess Epstein was advising or working at Towers at the time.
And it's super weird to have Hoffenberg on as some kind of like fucking witness.
Yeah.
To be like a personality.
It's just very strange to have this person on as a character witness who is, you know, a criminal and kind of like basically, you know, paint Epstein as, you know, uniquely able to control and manipulate people.
And he almost, I mean, he basically tries to kind of blame the Towers scheme on Jeffrey.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, it's, I don't know, when Hoffenberg was talking, I was getting this like real self, like you could tell he was very excited to be in the documentary and that he kind of wanted to place himself at like the center of at least some of this, even if it's like a center of a really bad thing.
But like, he does seem to me kind of like a publicity hound.
I mean, obviously he's a terrible fucking person, rob people blind.
But yeah, I thought that was that was strange.
And there's no real like.
I mean, the truth is nobody really knows how Epstein got all his money, you know, and they spend more time on Hoffenberg than they do on Wexner.
Well, that's the whole thing.
That's very weird.
Okay, one, we know that Epstein was hired at Dalton by Bill Barr's fucking dad, Donald Barr, which is, by the way, never mentioned, even though Bill Barr is mentioned a few times.
Yeah, so that's never mentioned.
So in this entire conversation about him, quote unquote, lying about his credentials to get into Dalton, it's never mentioned that a former OSS agent whose son is now in charge of the investigation into his death is the one who hired him.
And the second thing that's very weird is that they basically paint Wexner as a victim of Epstein's like insane ability to manipulate people.
Well, the one sort of interest, like that, I found that incredibly strange, especially as they opened with Maria Farmer.
And, you know, listeners to this podcast will know that Maria's Farmer's story heavily involves Leslie Wexner's house, right?
Like her, you know, her like assault from Epstein took place at Wexner's, his mansion, right?
And that she's had problems with Wexner since then.
And that, you know, longtime, you know, Epstein watchers will know that basically Wepstein and Wepstein.
Epstein.
I like that.
Wepstein.
That's what the tabloids should call the couple.
That Epstein and Wexner were basically, you know, inseparable, at least financially.
And it's never explained clearly why Leslie Wexner invests so heavily in Epstein.
It is implied.
They do put in a clip of, I believe, a reporter from the Columbus Free Dispatch, I think it's called, who says that, and this part is sort of given some gravity.
He says that Epstein was referred to as Leslie Wexner's boyfriend.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was going to make a joke about how we've heard it's, you know, we've heard it's very heavily implied that they were inseparable in other ways.
Yeah, we have heard that from multiple people that Epstein Wexner was a little bit of an item.
I mean, certainly there are long-standing rumors surrounding Leslie Wexner's sexuality and, you know, specifically a predilection for very young men, although Epstein would definitely not fall into that category.
So who fucking knows?
But that's still like, that still doesn't ring true to me.
I mean, again, this is, this is rather unscientific, although my gut is often correct.
It doesn't like, it rings false to me, like that would, that would lead to him basically giving Epstein unlimited access to his money, right?
Yeah, so they include a clip in there that I, you know, I had never seen.
I, I will give them credit.
There's a lot of footage in here that I had never seen, which was very cool.
But they had like, it was like from some speech that Wexner gave on September 10th, 2019.
Yeah, I think.
Okay.
And he says, I've been taken advantage of by someone who was so sick, so cunning, so depraved.
It's something that I'm even embarrassed that I was even close to.
And it's like the film basically softly suggests that Epstein was manipulating his relationship with Wexner in order to approach women and embezzle money.
And I just find that to be completely unsatisfactory as an explanation.
I mean, as far as we know, Epstein never worked a day in his life after leaving firms on Wall Street.
Like from like basically countless testimony, Epstein never worked.
I mean, it'd be pretty hard to work if you're spending a considerable amount of your time engaging in human trafficking, which kind of leads you to think, what was he doing for money?
And to be honest, the explanation that this, well, the film doesn't really try to give an explanation for it.
No, it doesn't.
You know, I have sort of opinions on that because like this is more, a little more extraordinary than like a true crime case, right?
Yeah, I think the true crime, I mean, I understand why they take the true crime approach because they are centering the victims.
And I, again, I commend them for that.
I really do.
But then because it's like the true crime model, they're like, they kind of like inevitably fall into this trap of then they have to kind of like psychologize the quote unquote serial rapist, which is usually the stand-in in the true crime, right?
Although I don't think that that is even like appropriate for the scale of the Epstein saga.
You know what I'm saying?
And so it's like a really bizarre tension to me of like, oh, he was this, you know, spangali, abuser, manipulator, Wall Street, women.
Oh my God, mystery man, politician, whatever.
That just doesn't really go anywhere because then we get to episode three and four and the story takes off in a totally different direction.
And so it's like, it's like they almost try, because this is obviously their wheelhouse of like true crime, which by the way is not our wheelhouse.
It's like they were trying to like fit it into some kind of like cookie cutter.
This is how we do these mini-series.
But this story doesn't.
Yeah, it just does.
It isn't appropriate for that because there's too much.
There's just a lot of not just loose ends, but a lot of angles to explore.
I mean, the thing is, like, you can look at this crime, like, you know, his, his, his nexus or whatever, his crime as an ecosystem in itself.
But then you, you really, if in order to get like a much more, I think, appropriate look at it, you have to pull back and see that Epstein and what he did existed in an ecosystem, that he's a part of that ecosystem.
He is not just like the whole universe in and of itself.
They try to do that in episode three and four, but I don't think it's very successful because I would imagine that they ran into some legal or at least like some fear of legal ramifications or whatever, because they dip their toes in some things.
Like you say, the guy alleging that Epstein was called his Wexner's boyfriend is sort of like a throwaway line.
And you're like, wait, hold on.
What's up?
And there's a couple other moments like that where you're like, wait, can you pause there?
But I would imagine they like they acknowledge like the last episode is really sorry, I'm jumping around, but the last episode is really interesting in the way that they acknowledge the conspiracy theories.
Yeah, yeah.
At one point, they have a bunch of the victims.
I mean, and this has been alluded to or stated outright in episodes before, although never followed up on.
But in the fourth episode, they have, I believe, two or three different victims talk about how he had his whole place wired up with cameras.
And of course, we know that he did.
We also know that he wired up Leslie Wexner's house.
And then they outright say like, oh, well, this is, you know, I mean, it's, it's the obvious thing to think of.
Teenage Victims' Horror00:07:41
This is, this was to blackmail people.
But that's a huge implication, right?
Like that in itself is an inc is an incredible crime.
And on one hand, like, there's essentially no way to really follow up on that because we don't know, you know, those, the, the list of people he blackmailed is not released.
One can assume it's some of the people that were involved with them, like the, you know, former Israeli prime minister Aubarak, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump.
But, but it's never followed up on.
That's such a huge, tantalizing line there.
And they don't really like, I don't know, I was a little confused by the decision not to really follow that line, I think, at least a little further.
And they do the whole like, you know, history channel or like True TV or whatever those, you know, cable channels are that do these kind of shows.
And they have like all the TV monitors and Oogabooka, blackmail, crazy.
And that, you know, the effects, it's all really corny, which is really frustrating too, especially when like you're dealing with a pretty serious subject.
I see the need for visuals, but yeah.
Yeah, it's so cheesy, though.
The opening credits are so dorky.
That's not, yeah, anyway.
But so they, they kind of like lay, it's in that, like toward the end of the final episode, and they just are like, and it was very clearly a blackmailing scheme.
And you're like, wait, hold on.
I thought he was a Svengali acting on his own, manipulating everyone.
And now you're telling me that he was involved in a high-level blackmail scheme.
And you're talking about the Acosta deal and basically alluding to the fact, I think correctly, that there was coordination with the feds to kind of like silence the victims.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, you know, there are celebrities mentioned, right?
Like at one point in the third episode, a guy who works on the island, I think his name's Steve Scully, who mentions a few things that I found really interesting.
He's a guy like did maintenance and electronics and he's, I believe, interviewed before and mentioned this fact.
But Epstein wanted a private cellular network on the island, which I think, you know, there's a lot that can be read into that as well.
But he describes seeing naked little girls.
He's described seeing a, surrounding a naked man who he doesn't name and then describes basically Prince Andrew getting, you know, intimate with a very young girl.
And that whole interview was really gross.
Well, he also says that he saw Bill Clinton and that he didn't see anything, you know, he said he saw Bill Clinton with no one else in the island, the implication being then also no secret service.
And then the documentary cuts to Victoria or Virginia, excuse me, Virginia Jeffrey saying that some of the people on the island, not all men took part.
I saw people on the island for lunch and dinner.
They didn't hang out.
And to be clear, Virginia Jeffrey has never claimed that Bill Clinton had, she saw, she's actually explicitly said that she did not see Bill Clinton engaged in sexual acts with anybody.
But I was a little that jump cut right there.
I don't know if that's what a jump cut is, but that cut made me jump.
Because I was like, huh, that is a very, I don't know, it's a thoughtful placement of that cut.
Yeah, I think that they were kind of like, you know, being careful with that.
I will say that that guy's interview, there were two interviews that really didn't sit right with me.
And that was one of them.
The way he kind of talked about how much he saw and like why he didn't do anything.
And then he says he finally quit when someone pointed out that he had two young daughters.
That story sounds fake to me.
Yeah, of course it's fake.
I don't know.
The whole thing didn't, I really didn't like that actually.
It's like, it's like, sorry, you witnessed like years of child abuse on this island without saying anything.
And then the pool guy.
comes by and is like, oh, you have a 13 year old.
Like, damn, that's crazy.
I like, I'm sorry.
This guy thought about the fact that he had two teenage daughters probably at least one of the times when he saw teenage girls being molested by a fucking royalty.
Right.
And so it's like, I'm sorry.
Nobody.
I don't know.
Men are incredibly good at compartmentalizing things.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, maybe, but, but what was the other one?
The other one was the woman.
What was her name?
Haley.
Yeah.
Who basically was a recruiter.
And to be clear, and, you know, of course, she was, she was recruited to Epstein's Palm Beach mansion when she was a child.
And then he, she says that he basically, you know, in the massage room, asked her to do stuff.
She said, absolutely not.
And he said, okay, well, if you're not going to do anything, then I want you to bring girls here and I'll give you $200.
Right.
So and this is kind of what they start to call the kind of Ponzi scheme, sexual Ponzi scheme that he sets up, where he has all these different or pyramid scheme, excuse me, where he has all these different girls kind of acting as, which is absolutely true, of course.
We know this.
Girls, he would recruit girls to then become recruiters of other girls.
He would recruit other girls and et cetera, et cetera, to come to his mansion.
There was a way that she talked about this.
And, you know, I don't know.
I just found the, I found it all a bit unsettling.
Yeah.
I don't know.
And it's not because I think, I just think that the, I don't know, I don't really know how to say this.
Well, you can just say that.
I don't think that.
Yeah.
I don't think that these things are black and white.
And I'm not suggesting that they are.
And I think it's okay for them to not be black and white.
I'm personally like very comfortable, probably too comfortable in gray areas.
But like there's a way in which I think she tries to absolve herself almost too much.
And maybe that's her own stuff.
I don't know if this is an inappropriate thing to say.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But I know what your part you're talking about.
And I do too, but it's also, I consider also like how malleable kids are, you know?
Absolutely.
I mean, I think she has a line where she's like, I was the 16-year-old and he was the adult man.
And like, yes, that's absolutely true.
But it's like, just in terms of like culpability, you know, like, obviously, like, she's, I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was the one who molested, you know, even leaving that aside, like, it's, it's, it's a really, it's a difficult issue with, with teenagers because, or kids or whatever.
Um, and that I have zero answers for, but like, I can understand whether because I knew people who did, not like in a, you know, sex crimes way, but I know people who did pretty bad stuff when we were kids.
Um, and they essentially did it because they were manipulated into doing it or, you know, various other reasons, sometimes economic reasons.
And it's, I've seen them grapple with that sort of stuff as we got older.
Whether He Fits On Screen00:09:49
And it's, it's, uh, I don't know.
It's, it's, it's a complicated, I think you're totally right to say like, yeah, it's like, it's, it's a black and white, but I, it's not black and white.
And I, I, I really, I get why that made you uncomfortable too.
It made me uncomfortable as well.
Um, well, that being said, I will say there were a couple funny details that I want to mention just as we wrap this up.
Unless, do you have any other big things you want to talk about?
Uh, no, there's a few details I also want to mention, but uh, let's see if let's see if ours coincide.
Okay.
One.
Uh-huh.
What the fuck is Tim Kane doing in this documentary?
With the man Tim Kane off.
Tim Kane and the membrane.
Tim Kane in the brain.
Okay, that was one of my details.
I'm sorry.
You couldn't find.
I understand that he questioned Acosta about Epstein.
Oh, God.
Come on.
Who cares?
You couldn't find.
Exactly.
It's like, you don't need to interview him, you know?
Like, you couldn't find a guy who was more than one degree separated from Jeffrey Epstein.
Like, come on, man.
He was fucking he was one of Jeffrey Epstein's friends running mates.
Like, he was on the Epstein campaign.
I just like also resent the filmmakers.
It's like, man, I've totally forgotten about this Joker and you're putting him back on my TV screen.
That's also they put, they threw Christian Gillibrand on there and Alyssa Milano.
And I was like, all right, come on, guys.
This is too much for me.
Yeah, get this out of here.
Also, okay, so in episode four, they address the quote-unquote suicide.
And they talk about what happened in the MCU.
Yep.
And yet there is no mention of our friend Nicholas Tartaglioni.
Zero mention.
Zero Tartaglione shout outs.
They even got that motherfucking, what's his name?
The forensic fucking, who's the guy who cuts you out?
Michael Baden.
They got Michael Baden's ass in there, who's like, you know, he doesn't, you don't need to mention him.
And then there's no Tartaglioni.
It's bullshit.
We need justice for Mr. Tortellini.
Well, I will say he did kill four people, I believe, rather brutally in his bedroom.
Well, I mean rhetorical justice.
And by that, I mean I would like to see.
First of all, this is a muscle man.
I want him on the screen.
Now, it is unclear to me whether or not he would fit on the screen.
Yeah, you would have to get along.
So perhaps that was the consideration.
I would be interested to hear that explanation.
Maybe they could not physically fit him in a room.
Yeah, that's possible.
That's possible.
He also might have killed the first two cameramen they sent.
One thing I want to mention is that, and he's used this trick before.
Well, actually, there's two Dershowitz things I want to mention.
Dershowitz, by the way, is interviewed in this documentary.
Listeners or Dershwatchers out there, my fellow Dershwatchers, will know that he never turns down an interview.
He will go on.
I mean, literally any TV show.
It's funny.
You can probably get him on this podcast.
Absolutely.
He fucking, I think he was in a podcast with that guy, Ian Fidance, in New York.
Yeah, we could get him on.
But he's also on Tucker Carlson, like every other week, which, but I don't know what noise I just made there, but both those guys suck my dick.
Anyways, he says at one point, like as if to disprove that there was a conspiracy revolving around the sort of secret meetings that took place beyond the court case.
The outcome of this case, whether people agree with it or disagree with it, doesn't require conspiracy between government officials and wealthy people.
Everything we negotiated for had to be approved by Acosta, by the assistant attorney general in charge of the criminal division of Washington, by the deputy AG of the U.S., and ultimately by the Attorney General of the U.S. You just named more government officials that were in the conspiracy.
You can't just say it wasn't a conspiracy.
Look how many government officials were involved.
That does not convince me.
Every time Dershowitz tries to say something that exculpates him, he inevitably implicates 10 other people.
Exactly.
Yeah, he's the classic rat.
What did I say?
He had a really funny thing where he was like, he was like, I don't have underage sex.
I've never had underage sex.
I didn't even have underage sex when I was underage.
And you're like, he's said that before.
I can tell that he thinks it's like one of his lines that's so convincing because I think like it just in the mind of a manipulator like myself, he thinks he's, he's saying that because he's like, if I am sort of degrading myself like this, people will think I'm telling the truth.
Like if I'm yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I think he thinks it's like a like airtight lead like argument.
That's what I'm saying.
It's like he thinks it's like he's like, he's saying that like.
I think he thinks exactly.
I think he thinks it's clever, but also like a really, I think he thinks it's funny, but also clever, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that's like the Shapiro destroying with facts and logic.
Exactly.
He's dumb, but not stupid, like I've always said.
His teeth are also fucked up, which, by the way, I also look at.
Yeah, I have no disrespect to fucked up teeth.
As many listeners know, I am a tooth man through and through.
Believe me, if you got fucked up teeth, I'm one of you.
I understand.
However, this man is rich.
And if you're rich, fix the teeth.
Fix the teeth.
The first thing I did when I got my first paycheck when I got sober, fix the teeth.
Unfortunately, that did end in a three-year tooth spiral for me.
Anyways, I think one of the things that really struck me about this documentary was the difference between this documentary and what independent investigators can do is that I don't think that they really can't.
We're complaining about them.
We're not really complaining.
Just pointed out that they're like, you know, there's things that they didn't say.
But we're also acknowledging that they probably can't say some of those things.
Right.
Like they are constrained at a certain level by Netflix, by not being able to reach conclusions on their own by basically just like having to go from interviews.
And I think that's like the big difference between something like this and something like us, right?
It's like we are, you know, like reporters can't say like, oh yeah, Alan Dershowitz is a pedophile, allegedly.
Yeah, we're protected by the law, the like ironclad laws of podcasting.
Which is that we put ourselves in the comedy tag in the iTunes podcast thing, which legally means that we're not the nudes and you can't sue us.
I don't think this is how any of that works.
Believe me, my lawyer told me about it.
Alan Dershowitz.
Wait, can I mention one last thing?
This is kind of dark, but it really is like burned in my brain.
Yeah.
So there's like a, and I kind of hate, I like hate myself that this is like stuck in my brain because it is from one of the victims like testimony like or things.
But I couldn't stop thinking about it.
Which is that when she was in the massage room with Jeffrey, Jeffrey asked her to like pinch his nipples.
Yes.
And like turn them as hard as she could.
Yeah.
Just, yeah, yes.
To the point of him.
Yes.
I found that incredibly bizarre.
Okay.
It's like burned in my brain.
Yeah, it's fucked up.
They do mention, I will say for egg watchers out there, they do mention his egg, his egg-shaped penis.
I will, I got, I gotta mention, so there is, we, we alluded to this earlier, just talked about this briefly earlier.
There is a, a phenomenal, uh, well, not phenomenal.
There's a good amount of unseen pictures and video in this.
I haven't seen the actual video of most of his testimony because the Palm Beach Police Department, I believe it was them, put some of it on their website, but the files were like, they just didn't work.
Right.
So a lot of this is out there, but you like literally can't watch it.
And so it was good to see him squirm and get mad when like that lawyer, Bradley Edwards, I got to say, he did write a book about Epstein.
I cannot fucking remember what it's called, but it's the book by, I have it.
It's by Bradley Edwards.
It's about Jeffrey Epstein.
It seems to be the only Epstein book so far that's worth a shit because it's actually written by somebody involved with it and not just somebody who's and he's a lawyer for the victims.
Yeah.
And he from Maria spoke really highly of him.
He seems to be sort of beloved by all the victims.
He's just like some lawyer down in Florida who they went to.
Yeah, Jeffrey gets real uncomfortable with his questions, especially a couple questions stuck out in my brain.
There was one where they asked him if he has always had a fetish for younger women.
Yep.
And Jeffrey gets like noticeably like riled up.
He gets like pissed off.
And the other one was when he asked him if he had ever been molested as a child.
Amendment King Pisses Off00:03:12
Oh, I didn't even notice that.
Yeah.
Whoa, yeah.
At one point that he asks if about the three 12-year-old girls that I believe Jacques Burnell.
Yes, he gets really pissed about that.
He really doesn't like that.
And I think that's because I believe it was Virginia that supplied that information to the lawyer.
And I think it's like, once that was out there, it's over.
You know what I mean?
Like, because that is, you can, he, I can tell he's thinking he can come back from teenagers, but he can't come back from 12-year-olds.
Like, that's what's over for him.
But, you know, his lawyers, every single question, by the way, his lawyers are like, this is harassment.
Which.
Yeah.
And he just pleads the fifth on all of them.
Yeah.
And some, a bunch of other ones.
I don't even remember.
The fourth?
I think the 14th?
He's a lot of them.
My man is tossing out amendments like pepperonis on a piece of music.
The Amendment King, they call it.
The Amendment King.
Thank you all so much for joining us in the first
and, if I have my way, only true and on movie review episode.
Yes.
You know what?
I am going to say my official official rotten true amatoes.
Rotten tomatoes.
Yep.
Rotten tomatoes.
I'm giving it a splat.
You're giving it a splat?
I'm giving it a 55%, but I'm going to say it's a half splat.
I'm going to give a half splat too.
I'm going to give a half splat too.
Because it's like, it's, it's, it's.
If, if, if Jeffrey.
I will say they, yeah, it's not as satisfying as a full splat, but I can't give it a full splat because it's got the victims in there at least.
Yeah, I know.
So half splat.
Half tomato for the victims, splat for the omissions.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
My name is Brace.
Oh, yeah.
I had a blast.
I actually, that was not as hard as I thought watching four hours of TV.
Yeah, dude.
What is this like the fifth time I've mentioned that I don't watch much TV?
Yeah, we get it.
Well, we got it.
I don't like books.
No, dude, I like to read either.
I don't know TV.
I don't even like it.
What is that?
I don't know.
I'm just like a book guy.
I'm kind of weird.
I'm kind of, I like records.
I like books.
I'm just like a little indie, little alt.
I don't know.
Put your gun down, Brace.
I will fucking, I will ice you through the TV street.
No, it's not that.
It's, I'm just too busy, you know, doing the modeling stuff.
Yeah, model trains.
Yeah.
I don't.
Yeah, hell yeah.
Silencing Women00:01:06
Model trains.
You're damn right.
Okay, okay.
Sometimes four or five.
So my name is Grace Ebert.
Liz is unable to speak, but I can speak.
Let me speak.
Stop silencing women.
Well, I'm really just trying to silence women.
Women are cool.
All right.
I'm Liz.
We are joined by producer and music guy, Young Chomsky.
And that's it.
Don't you fucking interrupt me.
I was doing the silky smooth voice thing.
Do it.
And that's Chora.
That was a weird one.
Yeah, man.
Give us, play us out, baby.
I don't want to now.
Okay.
I'm going to make you stay on.
We're going to keep going.
You have to do this.
You have to do this.
You guys, I can tell Brisa's getting agitated and really wants to go.