Dec. 19, 2022 - Straight White American Jesus
08:30
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| Time | Text |
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| Axis Mundi | |
| Welcome to Charismatic Revival Fury, the New Apostolic Reformation, a special series by Straight White American Jesus, created and written by Dr. Matthew Taylor and produced by me, Bradley Onishi. | |
| Our sound engineer is Scott Okamoto. | |
| But I want to remind you that the New Apostolic Reformation is the most radical change in the way of doing church since the Protestant Reformation. | |
| podcast player, and checking out all that we do at Straight White American Jesus on our website and on our Patreon. | |
| Thanks for being here. | |
| Here's the show. | |
| But I want to remind you that the new apostolic reformation is the most radical change in the way of doing church since the Protestant Reformation. | |
| Well, that's what we're springing off into the 21st century. | |
| And Jay, who's going to rise up and we're going to rule and reign through President Trump and under the worship of Jesus Christ, riots and revival actually erupt together. | |
| Why shouldn't we be the ones leading the way in all spheres of society? | |
| There's this deluge of revival coming. | |
| There's a rushing mighty wind on steroids. | |
| I said many years ago that we would even come to a place of civil war if this continues. | |
| Thank you. | |
| So Matt, in the first part of this episode, we learned about how Wallnau gets this idea from Bill Bright and Lauren Cunningham about dividing up society into seven different spheres. | |
| He adds the mountain imagery and makes it about top-down control and Christian dominance. | |
| What does any of this have to do with Wagner's New Apostolic Reformation? | |
| Well, it just so happens that about a year after Wallnau met with Cunningham and starts developing and talking about the seven mountains concept, Peter Wagner hears Walnau give a talk at a conference about the Seven Mountains. | |
| Remember, Wagner had a profound ability for identifying promising young leaders with talent, and he also had a keen ear for good prophetic memes, and Walnau was in possession of both. | |
| This is also a moment in Wagner's life where he himself is trying to figure out what's the next big thing for him. | |
| Like most charismatics, Peter Wagner is always looking for the next extraordinary move of God. | |
| He coined the New Apostolic Reformation idea in the 90s, then retired from Fuller Seminary in 1999 to try to build this NAR. | |
| By 2001, he's running the International Coalition of Apostles, overseeing the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, and he's got this Eagle's Vision Apostolic Team mentoring group. | |
| But Wagner loves picking up new ideas and new initiatives, and the Seven Mountains concept is right up his alley. | |
| So, just as Wagner had done with dozens of other gifted, young, charismatic leaders, he started cultivating a mentoring relationship with Wallnau. | |
| He would later call Wallnau one of the most creative thinkers in the church today. | |
| He invites Wallnau to come and speak at the International Coalition of Apostles and present this Seven Mountains Schema, where it seems to take hold and a lot of people in the coalition are excited about this new prophetic meme. | |
| Eventually, around 2007, Wagner invites Walnau to become part of his Eagle's Vision apostolic team. | |
| Wagner's true inner circle. | |
| The group that sees Wagner as their own personal apostle and spiritual father. | |
| For his part, Walnau seems to really welcome Wagner's interest. | |
| Peter Wagner is a big deal in the charismatic world. | |
| And by all accounts, he's a really good mentor. | |
| After Wagner's death, Walnut would offer a touching remembrance of his mentor. | |
| The reality, I want to share something about Peter Wagner because he's probably the first father I had in spirit. | |
| Fathering is a popular subject, but you ever wonder what the characteristics of a great father would be? | |
| Peter Had no ego invested in claiming credit for an idea. | |
| He literally could celebrate your originality like a parent does with a child. | |
| So immediately I was drawn to him. | |
| I was drawn to the fact that his paradigm was so large. | |
| I mean he had this whole Hamilton idea with finance and then he loved Spiritual Warfare and Deliverance, which for a fuller scholar to embrace casting out demons is the ultimate rat sandwich at the lunchroom. | |
| His pioneering with John Wimber before we came around actually created the shift that led to the Apostolic and Toronto and all that other stuff because Peter allowed his scholarship aura to be cast over the Pentecostal charismatic movement. | |
| Let's face it, that's what Peter did for our wing in the body of Christ. | |
| He lent gravity and credibility to ideas that would have been otherwise lampooned and rejected by the larger church world. | |
| So he was a covering for a move of God. | |
| So, in this encounter between Wallnau and Wagner, you have a real meeting of the minds. | |
| Wallnau is ambitious and eager to spread his signature Seven Mountains framework, what I call a prophetic meme, far and wide. | |
| And Wagner has this massive network of influential charismatic leaders who are all trying out this apostles and prophets thing. | |
| So Peter's what Malcolm Gladwell would call in the language of influence and tipping points, Peter Wagner was what you call a sneezer. | |
| Someone who sneezes is somebody who takes an idea and by their own platform credibility and endorsement gets everybody else infected with it. | |
| It's not a glamorous metaphor, but it's perfect. | |
| And there are people who, once they have an idea, for better or for worse, everybody's going to get it. | |
| And so what Peter did was he endorsed an idea that I'm convinced gave that whole Seven Mountain thing legs that went global. | |
| Because then Dutch Sheets would say it, and Cindy Jacobs would say it, and Chuck would endorse it. | |
| And by the time everybody was in alignment with him, we'd go with it pretty much. | |
| And so everywhere I went, I heard about it. | |
| And my friend Johnny Anlow wrote books on it, which I loved reading. | |
| And there, boom, the books were out. | |
| And it was really weird. | |
| People would come up to me. | |
| I never wrote a book. | |
| People came up to me and thanked me for my book. | |
| And I realized, this is so bizarre. | |
| I never wrote a book. | |
| But they read someone else's book and think that must have been me. | |
| I said, oh, what the heck. | |
| Peter Wagner takes me to his room. | |
| Wagner took Wallnau's Seven Mountains prophetic meme and spread it all over the apostolic and prophetic movement. | |
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