Weekly Roundup: Romney vs Trump, Evangelicals vs. LDS, the National Prayer Breakfast, and More
Brad and Dan discuss how we should interpret Mitt Romney's vote to convict Trump as an expression of how the Latter Day Saints view the president, and why they are less likely to be Christian nationalists. They also dig into the National Prayer Breakfast, the Southern Baptist Convention's views on the LGBT community, and Franklin Graham's woes in the UK.
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AXIS MUNDY AXIS MUNDY Okay, welcome to Straight White American Jesus.
My name is Brad Omishi, Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Skidmore College, and I am here with my co-host, Dan Miller, I am Associate Professor of Religion and Social Thought at Landmark College and it's great to see you, Brad.
Yeah, you know, I wanted to tell you, Dan, I had to do Wednesday's episode solo because our guests canceled on us and I had to do something and so You know, in some ways it was like living the bachelor life.
You know, I could just like do whatever I wanted, talk for 28 minutes straight.
I didn't have to consider anyone else's viewpoints or anything.
And yet, you know, it was lonely.
And I'm glad that, you know, we're back together again.
Did you do it with like a case of Bud Light and a three day old pizza or anything like that?
I was eating pizza as I did it and there was Doritos on the pizza as I was broadcasting so it was good but you know I'm ready to get back to normal life.
I've had my fun.
And anyway, today we have a lot to talk about.
There's a lot to talk about with impeachment, with Mitt Romney, the National Prayer Breakfast.
But before we get to that, let's just jump into our first segment.
And our first segment is, Did You See That?
And this is where we explore a news story from the week that is important, but might have gotten overlooked.
And so, Dan, what do you got for us?
Yeah, so mine, so let me begin, excuse me, by saying that, and you'll know this Brad, that for a lot of evangelicals, and this was true for me, I don't know if it was true for you, but There's a kind of, within the evangelical world, what's considered sort of a moderate position regarding LGBTQ issues.
It's not going to sound moderate to anybody who's like pro-LGBTQ or an ally, but within the evangelical world, it's this line, and it is, it's more common among like millennials and others, that kind of says, if you really press them, they'll say, well, yeah, we think that, you know, Um, gay sex is immoral or something like that, but we think that all humans are sinners and we've all fallen short of the glory of God, and we shouldn't single that out over other kinds of things.
And so you get some really ambiguous positions about the role of LGBTQ people in the church.
And so forth.
Because I say that it's not a kind of full acceptance.
It's not allyship.
It's not going to sound moderate to people outside the movement.
But within evangelicalism, this is kind of a standard position.
The reason I bring that up is that recently, the president of the Southern Baptist, sorry, he's not the president of Southern Baptist Convention, But he wants to be.
A guy named Al Mohler, who is the president of the Southern Baptist Seminary, which is the flagship seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention.
And I guess his name is also, you know, up for the presidency of the SPC.
He just recently came out with this big statement saying that all LGBTQ people are in rebellion against God, which doesn't sound, you know, all that different from a lot of other evangelicals.
Excuse me, but he made this statement, and this was really interesting.
He says, every single one of those letters, that is LGBTQ, every single one of those letters is a rebellion against the ontological order of creation.
Every single one of those letters is united in the fact that it is a direct act of revolution and rebellion against the order of creation and the law of God that God has established for his glory and for human good.
What does that mean?
What he goes on to say, and what he's saying there, is he's actually sort of doubling down and saying, no, actually, LGBTQ, not just actions, but identity, right?
Those who identify as gay, those who identify as queer, those who identify as trans or non-binary.
He's saying, actually, and he goes on to say this, he says, their sin actually is worse than other sins.
They are more sinful.
They are more wretched.
They are more dangerous.
It's a kind of what's called a natural law argument, right?
That there's this order of nature that is kind of built into like a moral order built into the order of things by God.
And by violating that, they're worse than people who say are divorced or people who maybe have abortions or people who do like other things that, in fact, they are the worst of the worst.
And so it shows, number one, is this really interesting, you and I have argued, right?
What about evangelicals who are more moderate?
What about evangelicals who might want to change evangelicalism?
Why is that hard to do?
And one of the things we've argued is that you start to find yourself defined as being outside the movement.
That's part of what this is.
This is a line that's saying, no, actually we're not all sinners the same way.
We're not all sinful.
We're not all equally fallen before God.
Queer people are worse.
They're worse than the rest of us.
And it also clearly shows this, this notion that right now, I think in terms of like the culture wars, abortion remains an issue, but I think LGBTQ stuff and particularly trans identity is like, that the really big point where they're coming after people.
So anyway, I open to your thoughts on that.
Well, it's just so clear to me in these cases that there's such a discomfort.
I mean, that's a that's a benign way of saying it.
I guess there's such a disgust level.
And what I mean by that is, you know, these folks are just so disgusted when they imagine non heterosexual couples together.
Right.
And I remember talking about this with other folks, including family members, who I said, you know, like I'm biracial, you know, like when my Dad and mom were walking through the park in the 60s holding hands.
A lot of people were disgusted.
They just thought that was ontologically not okay and not allowed and not right.
And you'll still see that kind of sentiment pop up.
And it's just very clear to me that that's just at play here, right?
That there is this sense of disgust at people's love and desire and then that is being Transformed to the level of ontology or being, like your very being is gross.
Your very being is outside of God's plan.
It's just sad.
It's infuriating.
It's hurtful.
And I think you make a really good point there, Dan, that if you're a young evangelical and your church is basically saying, hey, anyone you know or any feeling you have of being part of this community, It means that your very identity, the very essence of who you are, is outside of God's plan.
How do you stay in that?
Especially when you've grown up with, you know, people at your school who you know are lesbian and others who you know are trans and other folks who are gay and then especially, and this is why evangelicals are so scared of media, when you turn on TV and it's just not even newsworthy anymore if there's like a gay couple on a show or There's a queer couple represented.
I mean, it's just really not even sort of like headline news like it was when Ellen came out or something.
So anyway, all that to say, I think you're spot on and something worth watching.
And it's also just another sort of infuriating instance of homophobia, transphobia, and so on in evangelicalism.
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