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Nov. 21, 2024 - Stew Peters Show
56:28
Millstone Report w Paul Harrell: Cyrus Scofield: Scoundrel or Scholar? DEEP DIVE w Jeremy Slayden
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The closest Sunday we highlight something from the queer world in honor of gay Christmas or Halloween.
Last year we celebrated with the letter community and this year I'd like to share some insights from my coursework in the Queer Theology course.
Yes, these are ropes and we might get a bit kinky today.
In the kink world, though, there are rules for dynamics, and I agree not to go below the belt in our scene today.
Well, it is Kink Sunday, right?
So, looking at this passage through a kink lens might offer us a new perspective.
First, let me explain a bit about the master-slave dynamic in BDSM. It is a consensual power exchange.
Stop, stop, stop.
Welcome to the Billstone Report.
It is not Kink Sunday, okay?
It is not Kink Sunday.
It is actually Thursday.
I wanted to start the program there because this is the headline over at Protestia.
It's a story that is...
You just got to check it out.
For King Sunday, Preacher shows off bondage gear while linking Christianity and racism to BDSM. And the reason I started there is because I think we go over clips like that all the time from Woke Preacher clips, Protestia, other places...
And that is the very, throughout Christianity, throughout the Christian community, that's what we consider low-hanging fruit.
We spotlight those because it's absurd and people need to know just how apostate some of these denominations are.
But today on the program, we're actually going to be going into a much more nuanced topic of dispensationalism, an eschatological view in Christianity that is Actually, like 200 years old.
And I wanted to do this show for a long time, and I'm really glad that my friend Jeremy Sladen is here with us.
Jeremy from JSlayUSA.com.
Jeremy, welcome back to the Millstone Report, sir.
Thank you so much.
And it's a pleasure to be back with you, Paul.
Thanks for having me.
Okay, yes, sir.
Cyrus Schofield, you've got a brand new article out about this.
We'll throw this up on the screen.
Cyrus Schofield, scoundrel or scholar, the definitive examination of the man whose reference Bible changed America and Christianity, changed American Christianity, rather.
I know this has kind of been a A topic of your research and reporting for a long time.
I know this has taken a while, but what led you to want to do this, first of all?
Yeah, well, good question.
Great question.
I grew up in that tradition.
We didn't ever say the words premillennial dispensationalism.
We didn't say the words Zionism.
I couldn't have even told you what those were.
However, I grew up in a tradition of that exact thing.
And when you get into the academics of it, and more and more people are becoming aware Of what premillennial dispensationalism is, and as you said in the opening, it is about 200 years old, maybe a little bit less, in terms of being a system.
Now, had you told me that in my teens or in my 20s or even into my mid-30s maybe, I would have argued with you and said, no, this is just the biblical belief going back to the early church, going back to the apostles.
I wouldn't have been able to prove that other than I would just say, just read your Bible, which is typically the objection that I'll get now when I put out something like this of, no, it's not 200 years old, just read your Bible.
But the truth is the layering of I'll call it propaganda at this point has people only viewing certain verses in their Bible a certain way based on what John Nelson Darby in the 1830s and then Cyrus Schofield as the conduit into America for this theology because really this is what blew my mind when looking into this is when you look at the 1800s and early 1900s in American Christianity Ideas about the rapture or ideas about let's make
sure we get all the Jewish people back into Palestine and call it Israel.
That wasn't a thing.
It was a concept that was foreign to the average Christian on the street who loved Jesus.
And it was only a few influential pastors, we'll say, and secular leaders that were bringing that into America.
But what really made it hit the scene hard was the Schofield Reference Bible.
Well, so the first time I think we had you on, we talked about your piece on John Nelson Darby, also a guy by the name of Manuel Lacunza, and really just kind of how far back this went.
But with Schofield, Schofield is really the guy that had the most impact, as you say, on America.
Um, but, and there's only one, and you talk about this in your article, there's one main biography that everybody seems to go to about who this guy really was.
You say it's riddled with errors though.
And, and in this article, I mean, there's a lot about Schofield's life that just raises a lot of red flags.
I mean, at one point he's, you know, what does he steal 1300 bucks from his grandma?
He's You know, he seems to be a scofflaw in many regards.
How did you discover all of this, first of all?
Well, all you got to do is look into his life.
And the thing is, you brought up the biography by Charles Trumbull.
And the thing is, that has been the backbone of a protection that has protected his legacy for 100 years.
Charles Trumbull was a respected Yale journalist.
He was the most respected in the first half of the 20th century, so early 1900s.
The most respected of all religious biographers.
And the year before Schofield died, Trumbull traveled to go meet with Schofield and allowed Schofield to dictate, which is fine, his full story of his life.
And Trumbull took down the notes.
The problem is This was very different than all other Trumbull's biographies in his works because he usually had a lot of rigor.
He would fact check.
But in this instance, he was more of a sycophant.
He was kind of a fanboy.
I think he loved the Schofield Reference Bible, so he didn't fact check anything.
And you can easily find this out just by looking at the public records of where he was, when did he go to jail, all the different accounts of his conversion story.
Like you mentioned, his mother-in-law, he defrauded her out of $1,300.
All that stuff, Paul, would be fine if it was pre-conversion or even post-conversion if he repented of it, if he was public about it.
But instead, it was always swept under the rug and he began to gain access to these incredible circles of influence in the secular world that allowed him to produce this Bible.
So there's something deceptive going back So what is his conversion story?
Are there multiple accounts of how he allegedly became a Christian?
There's three conversion stories.
It's really interesting.
The one that's the most well-known, because it's in Trumbull's biography as dictated by Schofield, is that after a life of alcoholism, and that's what he pinned it on.
He said, like, I was an alcoholic and God saved me of that.
Hey, maybe true, but it also seems like a misdirected reality, something that, okay, well, he's an alcoholic, now he's not.
Rather than looking into his past.
But they say that he was an attorney in St. Louis.
Schofield says this, which he actually never passed the bar in St. Louis.
There's no record of him having a law office.
But he said his friend, Tom McPheeters, who was a strong, devout Christian, came and visited him at his law office in St. Louis.
And McPheeters pressed him on.
Why don't you believe in the Lord?
Why don't you become a Christian?
And supposedly they knelt down and prayed and Schofield accepted Christ, which immediately led into his ministry.
The other accounts, and other biographers have said this, and it was even reported in Dallas newspapers, that while he was spending six months in prison due to one of the forgery charges, that a group of Christian missionary women went and would visit this jailhouse, and it was a jailhouse conversion.
The third account was more recently discovered by one of the archivists at the Southeastern Theological School.
I don't mean to lose anybody, but in the Central American Mission, which Schofield founded, he had a peer, a partner missionary, that wrote a letter to him in the last year of his life and said, I'll never forget the way that you told your story of how you became a believer In front of the pastor James H. Brooks on some random road or street or city that had nothing to do with the other two accounts.
So it's another piece of the pattern that we see over and over in his life where there's multiple stories.
There's not really one that you can prove.
And you would think his conversion story, as somebody whose ministry is going to change America, is kind of a big deal, but it's very confusing.
What's interesting, and I read your piece, I had no idea that Schofield was appointed as the United States Attorney over Kansas at one point.
And of course then he quickly resigned, didn't he, because of some bribery allegations or a bribery scheme.
He did.
There were periods of his life where he would rise to prominence and he would disappear for five years.
And even in his ministry, we'll get into that later, that would continue to happen.
So it was another pattern.
But yes, after a period of disappearing out of the history books, after his service in the Confederacy, he shows up in St. Louis and then gets married, goes to Kansas.
And there in Kansas, he meets up with a...
A young senator named John Ingalls.
These two form a partnership, and they're really helping each other.
Well, John Ingalls reached out to Ulysses S. Grant, the president at the time, and said, you need to make Schofield the district attorney for Kansas for the federal government.
And at that point, at 29 years old, he becomes the youngest district attorney in history at 29. Within six months, he writes his resignation letter because all the papers are starting to report that he and Ingalls have been taking bribery money and blackmail money to keep this other senator from having to come to trial.
And apparently it was involved with railroad money.
Because railroad money was huge at the time, which that actually touches on something that happens once he becomes a minister as well.
He becomes friends with the most powerful, the president of the, I forget which railroad, Union Pacific Railroad, Jay Gould, who, you know, that guy had a really bad reputation.
But anyhow, I don't mean to get off the top of it.
Yes, he resigns quickly.
Okay, so let's talk about something else that I didn't know.
Let's talk about his Doctorate of Divinity.
Are there any records that he actually received any sort of formal education for his Doctor of Divinity?
There's no records of that, and that's jumping ahead into his ministry.
When he had been a minister for around 10 years, I believe this is in the mid-1890s, he just kind of started sliding in a DD, a Doctor of Divinity, as a title for himself.
And no, there are no records of it.
And actually, the Dallas Theological School, which really came from Schofield and his, what would you say, his His key Padawan learner was Lewis Ferry Schaefer, who started the Dallas Theological School.
They would have the most interest in protecting Schofield's legacy.
And when they've done the research, their response is, his education, if any, is shrouded in mystery.
And that's a quote.
Okay, so this led to essentially the prevalence of dispensational eschatology.
So, Jeremy Sladen, in your mind, can you define what dispensational eschatology is?
What is that exactly to you?
Well, to me, it's a way of dividing up the Word of God in a man-made system where God has different dispensations, the way He's going to dispense His grace or knowledge upon mankind.
And Darby, I believe, broke it up into seven different dispensations.
But this whole system was created for two reasons.
And Darby's idea and Schofield's idea was that the church was merely a parenthesis in God's greater plan for His earthly people, which are the Jewish people.
And the rapture was meant to let's get the Christians out of the way so God can come back in and directly deal with the Jewish people.
And so there's a high level of importance placed upon Zionism.
That's what we call it now.
And you can see that even today.
So you asked me the definition of dispensationalism.
It's dividing up God's Word into those different compartments.
It's a man-made system and it's two key ideas are there's going to be two second comings of Christ.
The first is a secret rapture where the Christians are, you know, swept, taken away with Christ, but nobody on the earth really knows why or how or whatever.
And then the second is all about Zionism, getting the Jewish people back to their homeland, rebuilding a third temple.
And that gets into the millennium and the process of Jesus re-becoming the high priest, reinstituting animal sacrifices.
And that may sound far off to people that believe in this stuff, but if you really dig into what, say, like a John MacArthur believes, I've got videos of him talking about it.
He's like, this is what's going to happen.
We're going to have animal sacrifices once again with Jesus being the one carrying that out.
It's really, really strange.
So, this particular teaching, you know, the Schofield Reference Bible, again, we mentioned, you know, it's only, we're talking 200 years here.
What was the prevalent teaching of the Church for the previous 1800 years?
It had nothing to do with Schofield.
I mean, it's really two unrecognizable interpretations of the Bible and eschatology.
Yeah, there were different strains from these marginal groups that would have an idea here in the 200s or maybe in the 500s somebody would talk about how there was going to be a great vanishing, but there was never a system put together.
And you're right, when this came about, the prevailing ideology, let's go back to the Reformers and Martin Luther, that's a name I think most of your audience would know, they believed they were in the Millennium.
They believed that it was kind of all happening at the same time and the Pope was the Antichrist and the Vatican was the beast system and they were having to fight against those powers.
They believed it was going on right then.
So there couldn't have been a rapture that was going to remove all the church before this tribulation period because they believed that they were in it.
So there's different versions of what different church fathers believed, but it didn't look anything like this dispensational system that we've had that's been predominant in America, I'll say, for the last 100 years.
Okay, so let's take a look at what does that mean practically?
What does that mean real world?
So I've pulled some videos, did a little research here, and I found a few.
Let's play this one.
This is from a pastor by the name of Gentizen Franklin.
And so this is how this 200-year-old...
eschatology this is how it makes it into into Christian churches today and and I and I do want to I do want to say that I do consider like because I came out of a dispensational background as well and so I definitely I know that many of these people love the Lord they love Jesus and and and this is not necessarily a focus of you know
they don't necessarily obsess over this all the time, you know what I mean?
But when asked about it, this is their view of the way they think things are going to shake out.
So I just wanted to put that caveat there.
But here it is.
Again, Gentison, Franklin, this is how this plays out in some churches today.
Here's why I'm preaching this.
Here's why I'm saying this.
This is huge.
AD 70, Jerusalem is destroyed, and 1900 years, Israel, the people, never come back to the land.
But in 1948, Jesus said there would be a generation that would see the fig tree come alive and reproduce fruit.
Now I want to ask you a question.
How many of you, how many of you were alive in 1948?
Let me see your hand, raise it high.
Guess what?
That is the generation.
They're thinning out.
Jesus said, I tell you that generation will not pass Whoever is alive in that generation, and it happened at the United Nations, in 1948, Israel became a nation.
They were given the land, and the Jews who had been decimated by the Holocaust, they had lost all of their money, they had lost their businesses, they had lost their homes, their clothes, everything.
They were emaciated, they were starved, they were...
Pitiful.
They couldn't even fight.
They couldn't stand up for themselves.
And they went back and gathered something, yearned for them to go to Israel because we don't have anywhere else the way we've been treated.
Do you see?
Do you see?
And they're coming back.
They're coming back.
They're coming back.
Do you know that the Bible says in the book of Psalms that a generation is basically 70 years?
Throw up my verse in Psalms.
It says, the days of our lives, and don't let this depress you, but this is just how it is.
This is what the Bible said.
Now, there is a reason of strength, which is a big deal.
Amen.
But he said, the days of our lives are 70 years.
This is a generation.
And if by reason of strength, you can have 80 years.
But if you do keep getting old, he's trying to say there, you soon still going to be cut off and you're going to fly away.
And what I'm trying to preach to you, oh, glory to God, that in 1948, that's 75 years ago this year.
And people are fading out and they're going home to be with the Lord.
But he said there would be some left from that generation.
I'm not preaching the hour.
I'm not preaching today.
I'm preaching Jesus' sermon on the signs of the times.
How close are we?
How soon could Jesus return?
I mean, in seven years, we could be in the millennium if Jesus came today.
Okay, I think it gives people kind of a practical outline of what this particular teaching actually means.
So what I heard there was obviously some sort of rapture clock, some sort of second coming of Christ clock that we're on.
And I think as I'm going to demonstrate here, Jeremy, this is a reoccurring theme, isn't it?
Because I'm pretty sure that Cyrus Schofield, he believed that he would not die, correct me if I'm wrong, he would not die a natural death because he thought his teaching was showing that Christ's return was imminent.
All of them believe that, even going back to John Nelson Darby.
They all in their personal writings said, we will not see death.
We're going to be raptured.
They all thought that they were in that end times.
And yes, you're right.
Schofield wrote it.
And then later on, you've got pastors that went through the seminaries that were where the Schofield Reference Bible and its notes were part and parcel with the curriculum.
And they all believe that.
So, you know, you've got a guy like, again, I'm glad you said what you said.
Great men of God doing, I mean, the word they're preaching about the gospel is not coming back void.
These men are winning souls, and I applaud their work.
But in this area, there's a thoughtlessness here.
There's a lack of research and understanding.
Chuck Smith, the founder of Calvary Chapel, whose ministry blew up.
I mean, there's Calvary Chapels.
I think it's in the top ten denominations in the world today.
And he claimed, both in books and in public speaking, that the rapture had to happen before 1981 because a generation...
Do you want to say something?
Finish your thought.
I was just going to say, you know, the generation, biblically speaking, typically meant 40 years.
That's a generation.
Now, they've expanded that to be the length of a human life, which the Bible talks about, 70 years.
Yeah.
I'm really glad you brought that up.
So here's a guy by the name of Mike Winger, who I really like his content.
I don't agree with him all the time theologically, but I do appreciate a lot of his content.
And I believe he's in that Calvary Chapel circle, and he did a video where he called Chuck Smith out about misinterpreting the Bible, misinterpreting that fig tree passage.
As well as saying, Chuck Smith predicted the rapture in 1981 based on this 40-year generation.
Well, now we're even further away from that, and so now it's been moved to 70 years, which brings up a really interesting question I want to ask you, Jeremy, here in a moment.
Here's Mike Winger, though, on this topic.
Well, I'm deeply grateful for Pastor Chuck Smith.
He did predict that Jesus would return in 1981. Like, that really happened.
And, I'm sorry, that Jesus would come for his church in 1981. The rapture would happen in 1981. And that in 1988, there would be the second coming.
And so there was a seven-year tribulation there.
And he predicted it a number of times.
Also, this issue was based on Scripture being taken out of context.
And that same scripture is still being taken out of context regularly and this is the passage that gets taken out of context.
This is the passage about the fig tree and when the fig tree is sprouting and then you have one generation and so then all this calculation started going on and it was a misunderstanding of prophecy and one that was propagated for many, many years after 1981. I don't want to be divisive here.
Again, I deeply appreciate Pastor Chuck Smith.
He's the founder of the Calvary Chapel Movement.
If you guys aren't familiar with who he is, I think there's over 2,000 Calvary chapels now.
There was one in the 60s.
Am I going through the School of Ministry at Calvary Costa Mesa where Pastor Chuck was one of my teachers that would come in weekly and teach us?
When I was there back in 2004 to 2006, I heard him give this statement in his old studies.
We would listen to Chuck tapes.
We're listening to Pastor Chuck teaching from 1979 to 85. We listened to this Chuck series, Seven Years of Sunday Night Messages.
And we heard all of them.
And in them, he actually is talking about the rapture.
And he says that the world can't last for another 20 years.
And he's convinced of it.
And I'm like, it's 2005 probably when I was listening to this.
And I'm like...
That doesn't really work.
You know, what's going on?
And what was weird was nobody ever said anything about it.
Well, I didn't make a huge deal about it, right?
Because I wasn't sure that it had ever been said again.
I didn't know if Chuck had ever repeated this, if Pastor Chuck had mentioned this again at other times.
What I didn't know at the time was that not only had he repeated it, he had written in multiple books.
I'm going to read to you quotes from the material.
I wanted to make sure that Pastor Chuck had really said these things and really said them in unequivocal ways.
And I'm going to talk about those issues today.
We've got to learn from it.
This is the passage that gets interpreted wrong very often by people in my own community, Calvary Chapel.
It says, now learn the parable from the fig tree.
Jesus says, when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that he is near right at the door.
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
So how did Pastor Chuck interpret these words?
Let me share with you some quotes specifically from his book, In Times.
These are quotes I'm reading directly from the book.
I've just written them on my notes here.
He says in the introduction, I have no intention of telling you the day that the Lord is coming for his church, the rapture.
I'm adding the rapture.
When Pastor Chuck used the phrase, coming for his church, he meant rapture.
I do not know the day.
Nobody knows that day or hour.
Now, that is like, see Pastor, some people are going to already, see Pastor Chuck didn't predict the rapture.
He says no one knows the day or hour.
But it seems to me that Pastor Chuck and some others in Calvary as well, they think that no one knows the day or hour means you don't know the calendar date and the time of day.
But I think the way this term is used in scripture is to say no one knows when this will happen at all.
Like if you don't know the day, you don't know the hour, you don't know the year, you don't know the decade, you just don't know.
Like that would be how it's used.
So Pastor Chuck felt like he wasn't making a prediction because he didn't put a calendar date on it.
He only gave a year.
So he thought he was dodging that issue that way.
Or so it seems to me.
Let me read on.
On page 35 of In Times he wrote this.
If I understand scripture correctly, Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the budding of the fig tree, that's that verse I just read.
When you see the budding of the fig tree, one generation.
He says, the generation which sees the budding of the fig tree, the birth of the nation of Israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord's return.
I believe that generation of 1948 is the last generation.
Since a generation of judgment is forty years, and the tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His church any time before the tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981. So he anticipated really a 1980 return, but 1981 is the date that got through around a lot in regards to this.
So then he has a little math section.
He goes 1948 plus 40 minus 7, the tribulation, equals 1981 being a pre-trib rapture position.
Boom.
That's when it's going to happen.
So he's convinced.
Now, does he say it's prophecy?
Does he say God spoke to him?
No.
But he thinks he's got the math right.
His interpretation of scripture is right here.
But I'm going to say it's obviously wrong.
Obviously wrong.
Obviously wrong.
Again, that was Mike Winger.
I wanted to play that lengthy clip because I wanted the audience here to know what other people are saying and to know that it is just really kind of picking this out of the air that that parable of the fig tree...
It means the modern nation-state of Israel that was reconstituted in 1948. And yet, on so many of these teachings, it hinges on that.
It hinges on other passages, too, but that's one of the ones that's obviously not true.
And again, so my question to you is, Jeremy Sladen, We saw one clip of Gentison Franklin saying 70 years.
We see this other clip letting us know that Chuck Smith said it'll be 40 years.
What happens in five years?
What happens in four or five years where it's clear that the 70 years is up?
And there's still no rapture.
Well, the 70 years is up now.
That's already passed.
I think we've got four years left, if I'm doing my math right.
But either way, I think that there's been so many books that these men have written.
They've got...
Government officials from Israel on speed dial.
They've got relationships over there.
There is so much at stake for their ministry.
I mean, you said before, maybe they don't fix on this, but when they do go there, they're pretty strong.
A lot of these guys do fixate on it.
And it's unfortunate because if they're wrong, there's going to be a lot of faithful members of their congregation, I think, having really deep and sincere questions about what can we trust now.
And I don't think that these ministers have any interest in being wrong.
So what you're going to see is, well, 1948, they didn't actually have Israel from the river to the sea.
They had this little sliver of land.
They didn't have the West Bank.
They didn't have Gaza.
They didn't have greater Israel, which not many people know about this, but greater Israel was always the point of what the original prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, going back to Theodore Herzl at the Zionist Congresses, they always wanted greater Israel.
So I think what you're going to see is, hey, we got to have more warfare.
There's got to be more things happen.
And we have to have, you know, this third temple built.
They've got to have all this.
Then the clock will start.
So they'll find whatever they can to continually push it back as long as possible.
I think there will be others, though, that are more honest and will begin to watch shows like this, even pastors that said, you know, maybe I didn't do my due diligence.
Maybe I just went to Dallas Theological School or Biola or Moody Bible Institute, and I just trusted that they couldn't possibly have it wrong.
I think you'll see some honesty that will happen as well, which will be refreshing.
I agree.
All right.
Stay right there, Jeremy, because I want to continue this conversation.
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Make people healthy again.
So we're back here with Jeremy Sladen.
And Jeremy, by the way, I really appreciate your work.
I appreciate you tackling what is a very sensitive issue.
And I've got to imagine you coming out of the background that you did, that this is a sensitive issue with a lot of maybe some of your family and people that you love.
But I really appreciate you taking the time and diving into these issues to expose the truth.
That's what we want to do here on this program.
The truth of this issue, Jeremy, is getting out.
Tucker Carlson, arguably the largest podcast in the world.
I don't know, is Joe Rogan ahead of him?
I think they're kind of going back and forth.
Close.
John Rich.
Country singer John Rich was recently on Tucker Carlson's show, and this is what he had to say about Cyrus Schofield.
What you're saying is the Schofield Bible, its theology is deceptive.
A very wealthy, very charismatic preacher named John Darby came with this doctrine that's now referred to as the secret rapture or the pre-tribulation rapture.
And guess who he was connected to, by the way?
The Rothschilds.
Interesting.
Have you ever heard of a Schofield Bible?
Yes, I have.
Okay, so C.I. Schofield was basically a student of John Darby, and he adopted that part of the doctrine, and he incorporated that into the Bible.
It was the first Bible ever made that had study notes with it.
It became so popular, every Christian was reading it, every minister was reading it, including me, including my own father.
For a long time, that's what we believed too.
My sense was the Schofield stuff, which has had massive implications for our foreign policy, for example, and in our domestic politics, was probably a lie.
I do know that that translation or that commentary on the Bible has had massive effects on our politics that have been very, very negative and resulted in the deaths of a lot of people.
So what Tucker's referring to there is obviously the support for Middle Eastern wars, right?
That's what he's referring to.
So it's kind of wild that when you think about it, you know, this eschatology, this idea comes up in the 1800s and, you know, yada, yada, yada, America has, seems like a never-ending interest in the Middle East.
Easily.
Yeah, we've given that little country more billions of dollars than any other country by double.
I know it's $300 billion plus from our government.
Now, why this matters even more for the church is the church has given...
Now, the last I read was the 2012 study on how much money the church has given to Israel.
$300 million as of 2012. So I need to update my numbers there.
But you've got a government giving $300 billion.
The church giving $300 million.
Now, how many little mission groups and ministries are dying to get a little bit more funding and need it to do good work, but instead we're sending it over to Israel?
So, yeah, I mean, it's had massive, massive sweeping effects.
And one thing I hope we touch on, I'll let you ask the questions, but Schofield was directly influenced by Zionist interests, and that's the crazy part of my research and then my article, which you can read at JSlayUSA.com.
Alright, so I want to talk about that.
Let's throw the article back up there so people can see it.
Again, jslateusa.com.
Hang on, that's the wrong slide.
There we go.
There we are.
Okay, let's talk about that.
One part of this article that is fascinating to me...
Is the Oxford Press.
So at some point, and you can feel free to take this point and back up and fill in what I've missed.
So at some point he goes overseas.
We don't really know.
He's able to fund.
Somehow he's able to fund seven months overseas.
And then eventually the Oxford Press makes a deal with him to publish this Schofield Reference Bible.
And there's a, I can't, had that ever happened before?
Let me just ask you, Jeremy, had something like that ever happened before where Oxford Press did what they did?
Oxford Press had never published an American author, ever.
Mark Twain, none of them.
And here's this minister who was slightly well known, but not really, not at the level of like a D.L. Moody or others who you would think that they might actually be interested in.
He had created sectarian pamphlets that, you know, a few people read, but he just was a small-time minister that was trying to make a name for himself.
He gets invited to an exclusive secular arts club in New York, which is still around today.
Hillary Clinton just spoke there.
Anthony Fauci is a member of it.
But back then, Mark Twain was a member and Andrew Carnegie was going and having state dinners and things like that there.
And all of a sudden, Cyrus Schofield gets a seat on the literary committee of the Lotos Club in 1901, right after he tells publicly his idea of writing a reference Bible.
So the timing is breathtaking.
And the person that sponsored him for his seat on the literary committee was Samuel Untermyer, who was also the founder of the American Jewish Committee.
And he had a hand in creating the Federal Reserve Act.
So you can start to connect some dots there.
Some really deep ones, by the way.
Well, so Federal Reserve created in 1913, and Schofield's alive then.
I mean, he's kind of in the middle of all that.
I'm not saying he created the Fed, but he knows these people.
Oh, he knows these people, and Untermeyer was one of the most connected men in the world at the time.
He was friends with Louis Brandeis, the Supreme Court Justice, Bernard Baruch, who was directly advising Woodrow Wilson at the time, and there's others that off the top of my head, Rabbi Samuel Wise.
Well, those guys, not Untermeyer, but some of those that were very close with Untermeyer were also attending the The biggest hotspot in the world for Zionism at the time.
That was Theodore Herzl's World Zionist Congress.
Now, you mentioned seven months.
It was actually at a minimum nine months, but two of his biographers, including Trumbull, say he actually spent almost two years overseas.
And a big portion, the majority of that time, he was staying in Montreux, Switzerland.
And I've looked all this up.
I've done the math on it.
At that time, it was only four hours away from Basel, Switzerland, where the Seventh World Zionist Congress was being held with a lot of Untermeyer's peers, these Jewish Zionists that were over there.
So I don't have any records of Of Schofield attending the Zionist Congress, but I do think it would make perfect sense if he was.
So, heavy, heavy Jewish influence and heavy, heavy Plymouth Brethren influence, because Darby was a Plymouth Brethren, and I hope I'm not losing the audience here, but when he actually first went over there...
What's the Plymouth Brethren organization?
Yes, that was the group out of London that John Nelson Darby started that believed in this dispensationalism with the rapture and Zionism.
They were the first Christian sect to really officially do that and to get some momentum with it.
And again, Darby's the one that came to America to St. Louis.
He met Schofield.
Schofield said that Darby's the greatest theologian of our age.
So you've got a connection there.
We do know that the three public funders of his trip to Europe were all Plymouth Brethren out of New York.
Alan P. Ball, Francis Fitch, and one other.
Then when he goes there, he immediately gets an audience.
This is an unknown, basically, pastor, definitely at an international level.
Nobody should have known this guy.
He goes up there.
He meets with the head publisher of Oxford University Press, a man named Henry Froud.
Well, I looked into Henry Froud.
There's not much known about him, but what is known is this.
He is a member of those known as the Exclusive Brethren, which was Darby's closest Inner circle who never questioned him on anything.
So that's why he was able to begin discussing contracts for this Bible immediately.
Wow.
I can't believe it.
That's incredible.
Oxford Press, they never published an American author ever, not even Mark Twain, but they did publish the Schofield...
And funny enough, Mark Twain and Schofield were members of the Lotos Club at the same time together, so it's something else.
Yeah, and you've done a great job as well of kind of highlighting what this teaching did to seminaries.
I've got this information that you sent me.
Bible Schools Embracing the Schofield Bible from 1909 to 1950. The Moody Bible Institute, Dallas Theological Seminary, Philadelphia College of the Bible, Talbot School of Theology, Wheaton College, Western Conservative Baptist Seminary, Biola University, Yak College, Providence Bible Institute.
And then, if you look at the newer schools that are embracing the Schofield Bible from 1950 until present day, Liberty University, Calvary Chapel Bible College, the Master's Seminary, Chafer Theological School, Cornerstone University, Shepherds Theological Seminary, Tyndale Theological Seminary, Piedmont International University, Word of Life Bible Institute, and Grace School of Theology.
And I'm sure there's more.
So, it just kind of goes to show that on this issue, a lot of these up-and-coming ministers of the gospel, this is the only lens when it comes to eschatology.
And this rapture, this idea of this secret coming of Jesus and then the real coming, it's just not something that was taught for 1,800 years at all.
And yet we have, I've got this, I pulled this clip as well.
Before you play it, Paul, can I make one clarifying point?
Because somebody that goes to one of these seminaries may object to what you just said.
They're no longer being handed a Schofield reference Bible and saying, like, read these notes.
This is your curriculum.
Read the notes.
The notes have already done their work.
So now the curriculum, they're not going to refer as much to dispensationalism or those words that we're using, like premillennial dispensationalism.
They just say, we unequivocally support Israel.
So the themes of his work are what has carried through to today.
Well, as I say, I came from a dispensational background, but I didn't know what it was called.
I didn't know it was called dispensational.
This is a term that I don't believe, maybe some churches actually embrace the term.
Because there are some that actually do believe that, hey, like God had a plan A, right?
It was in the garden, and then man fell, so then he had a plan B, and he gets to the Abrahamic covenant, or the Noah covenant, the Abrahamic covenant, and the Davidic covenant.
This is like plan D at this point.
And then eventually we get to plan W, which was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
And that's just not, in my opinion, that's not what Scripture plainly teaches.
Scripture plainly teaches that Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world, that God had one plan, and He enacted it because...
He's God and He's sovereign.
Yeah, and what it's done is it's created a dual covenant.
Right here, we're in the New Testament, you know, New Covenant era, but just like Gentes and Franklin and countless other pastors, they have a dual covenant thing going on where, yes, on the one hand, the gospel's all that matters.
You know, we must, and I'm not saying that...
Sarcastically, I believe that.
But on the other hand, it's like we must bless, support Israel unequivocally and the Jewish people.
Well, that's a license to do basically anything.
And we've given them billions upon billions of dollars to do it.
And it's also an easy way to become deceived when another nation knows that that's what the Christians across the sea believe.
And I want to read one paragraph from the Jerusalem Post in 1983. It's very interesting
because I do agree.
I think that's...
It's almost as if we can manipulate the geopolitical events and control them, we can somehow control...
And I know they would never say that, but that's what it feels like to me.
We can somehow control the second coming of Jesus if we can get the chess pieces in the Middle East just so, and then boom.
And it's just...
That's...
God's not working off of our plans.
That's correct.
That's correct.
100%.
Rapture.
Let's talk about it, though, right?
I mean, my biblical interpretation of...
Well, the word rapture, right?
I don't believe it's anywhere in Scripture, but it does come from the verses when it talks about being caught up in the air, right?
Now, what I believe...
Say that again.
I believe it's harpazo is the Greek term.
Okay.
So, for what I believe is, I mean, to me, I do believe that's going to happen.
When Christ returns, there will be people on the earth, and I do believe the Christians will meet him in the air, and I feel like they're going to line up behind him as Jesus Christ makes a triumphant entry into the world.
Like, that's, to me, and that's what was a common idea, by the way, again, before This 1800 teaching that has taken hold.
But this idea of the rapture as we understand it now, or what's maybe more common, is one of great dread if you were left behind.
We remember the left behind books.
Here's a pastor by the name of Rod Parsley warning people what to do if they're left behind.
You missed the rapture.
Remember today, try not to panic.
Realize you missed the rapture and you are now in seven years of tribulation.
Get a Bible and pray.
Do your best to find some survival equipment.
Have a survival plan.
You'll need water.
It will all be contaminated.
You'll need food.
There won't be any and without the mark you won't be able to buy any.
Try to find shelter in a cave if you have to.
Make no alliance with the Antichrist nor the false prophet.
Do not take the mark of the beast.
Well, I mean, you know, Jeremy, what's your reaction to that?
Well, what I love about that clip is he starts it off with, try not to panic, and then he goes as hard as he can to try to make everybody panic.
It's kind of awesome.
Yeah, it kind of is really funny.
That's my take.
Yeah, you know, that's the tradition I grew up, you know, believing.
And I remember coming home and I think all the kids that grew up in a Christian household had this experience.
You come back from playing with your friends or something and your house is empty.
Maybe, you know, your parents had to go to a neighbor's and you start to wonder, like, oh, my God, did I get left?
Am I left behind?
And you start questioning, I thought I was saved.
You know, like, I think that happened to all of us at least once.
Of course.
Of course.
But, you know, I never heard anybody be like, hey, if you get left behind, you know, you better become a prepper real quick, you know.
You better get your clean water.
Live in a cave if you have to.
He didn't mention, you know, getting any ammunition.
I guess passivism would need to be the rule if that's the case.
Well, I mean, you're not going to win against the Antichrist armies.
I mean, it's...
Right.
Yeah.
Well, you mean the locusts that are Blackhawk helicopters, of course.
There you go.
Or drones or whatever.
Oh, yeah.
You know what?
That changes a lot, by the way.
When you take it that literally, they change it based on the decade of technology that we're in.
Yeah.
Drones.
Yeah, I guess that would be it.
The locusts in Revelation are really going to be drones.
And look, I know there's probably maybe somebody out there that thinks that we are dangerously mocking.
I'm sorry.
It was fun.
That clip just cracks me up.
Well, the ominous music, it certainly makes it.
All right, so Schofield, scoundrel or scholar.
I think you've certainly done a great job with this work.
So what happens when he dies?
He dies in 1921, and he is, what, mourned across the country?
Is that right?
Yes, he had become a celebrity as a Christian in America.
I mean, not only was he a member of the Lotus Club, which was so prestigious, which he lived at for a long period of his life, he was traveling internationally, he was lecturing.
So yes, when he dies, and by the way, in 1917, the same year as the Balfour Declaration, that's when the Oxford Press had tapped him to release a revised edition in which he doubled down on All the premillennial dispensational stuff.
So he'd become a big deal.
His Bible was selling more and more and more.
He was getting royalties off of that.
I don't have the figures on how much money he made, but other publishers were also publishing his study notes, not just the Bible.
So he was becoming wealthy.
He dies.
He celebrated in memorials across the country.
I've included some quotes and things that were said about him.
But the big kicker goes back to what we talked about his biographer.
The biographer released His work, which was also published by the Oxford University Press, that became his official biography really for the next almost 100 years.
And anybody that was curious about who is this man Cyrus Schofield, you would read a sycophantic A story as told by Schofield about his own life that has multiple, multiple easily disprovable claims about his own life.
So, you know, and not to mention the, you know, his protege was Louis Sperry Schaefer, who Schofield himself laid his hands on and said, I want you to start the Dallas Theological School and have an emphasis on this dispensational teaching.
And, you know, off to the races.
It kind of took off from there.
Well, here's one thing I know about all of this.
I know God is in control.
I also know, as we talked about earlier, the one generation from 1948 is 40 years, now it's 70 years, or whatever the case may be.
I see there's a lot of people that are recognizing that this version of eschatology is actually very small in terms of the 2,000 year history of the church.
And I think as things keep ticking on and these predictions, you know, do not come true the way so many people have, whether it was Schofield or whether it was Chuck Smith or whether it was Jentison that we played earlier, I think people are going to have questions and I think the good news is that, you know, there is the Bible that has the answers.
Not Schofield's interpretation, but The church fathers, and you mentioned Luther, and then there's Calvin.
There's all kinds of people that did not believe what many modern-day evangelicals believe today.
We're almost out of time.
Jeremy, we've got about 30 seconds, and I'll give you the last word, sir.
Yeah, I'll just say, you know, somebody may say, well, why does all this matter?
It matters because of money, because of mission, and because of deaths.
That's why I think this matters.
And when you're giving $300 million as a church, so it's probably $400 million by now, over to the nation state of Israel, and then your mission then is deflected away from giving that money, giving that time and energy To the Christian faith and our needs here.
And then the deaths.
When we're just supporting anything Israel does in a war and never talking about the dark and dirty secrets about those wars because we just want to support Israel, that's where it gets really dark.
And that's where I've been surprised that more Christians aren't willing to take a harder look at what's really going on with these wars.
And it's simply because they just want to support Israel.
That's what they're being told to do.
Jeremy Slayton, thank you so much for your time, sir.
We really appreciate it.
The website, jslayusa.com.
You see it on their screen, jslayusa.com.
Jeremy, God bless you, sir, and we'll do it again soon.
Thanks.
Great to be here, Paul.
Alrighty, folks, unless I'm providentially hindered, I'll be back here wishing you a happy Friday.
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