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Nov. 18, 2023 - Stew Peters Show
01:02:47
LIVE: Catholic Church Funds LGBT PORN Books For Kids! Georgia Ballot FRAUD, Who Are The REAL Jews?
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Accountability is God's job.
But it's not solely God's job.
No, it's our job too.
We will be the plan.
We are never going to give up.
When the truth is known to the entire world, we are going to have extreme accountability.
Good evening and welcome to the Stu Peters Show.
So the Catholic Church is by far one of the largest institutions of any kind in the entire world.
It's a lot more than just a network of parish churches.
It's a whole universe of hospitals and schools and charities, publishing houses, newspapers, and a whole lot more.
And that's not a bad thing as long as these schools, hospitals, and so on reflect real Christianity.
But do they?
Officially, the Catholic Church stands against crimes like abortion, euthanasia, mutilating children to make them transgender.
But a disturbing number of Catholic leaders don't seem terribly bothered with upholding their own religion's doctrines.
Michael Hickborn is president of the Lepanto Institute, which seeks to combat enemies of the Catholic Church from both outside and, even more importantly, from within the Church itself.
And the number of enemies within the Catholic Church is vast.
Michael's research has revealed that Bishop Timothy Sr.
of Philadelphia has been lying to other church leaders about the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.
Bishop Sr.
says that this campaign doesn't fund organizations whose practices violate church teaching.
But in fact, this is a complete lie.
For instance, the campaign has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to a group called Congregations United to Serve Humanity, or CUSH. The group is located in Wisconsin.
Kush has worked to collect and distribute so-called banned books to libraries.
These banned books aren't banned, of course.
No.
In reality, they're just quasi-pornographic books with a gay or tranny agenda aimed right at children.
Now, parents all over the country have been working hard pushing these books out of their children's public libraries and public schools and classrooms, but groups like CUSH are working to spread them as widely as possible, and it turns out they're using Catholic believers' donations to do it.
Michael Hickborn is blowing the lid off of this story.
Nobody else will report on it.
We will.
He joins us now.
Michael, thank you so much for coming.
We appreciate you being here.
Thanks so much for having me on, Stu.
It's really disheartening because I've been working on this, exposing what the Catholic Campaign for Human Development has been funding for 15 years now.
I've been calling on bishops to conduct a third-party investigation.
Bishop Strickland was very much on board with trying to help with that, but now he's been sidelined.
And the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of bishops seemed Willing to just turn a blind eye and continue to rake in millions of dollars to give to organizations like Cush.
How has Strickland been sidelined?
Bishop Strickland was recently removed from his diocese by Pope Francis.
He was told on Friday that he is no longer the Bishop of Tyler, Texas.
So how is this Bishop Sr.
able to say that the campaign doesn't fund organizations like this?
But in fact, these donations are going directly toward indoctrinating specifically children with transgender propaganda inside the church.
Absolutely.
And Bishop Sr., he's either completely blind to what's really happening, or he is absolutely lying about what the Catholic Campaign for Human Development is financing.
I sent, back in September...
A letter to every single bishop of a diocese in the United States with five samples of the various reports that we've put together on the Catholic Campaign for Human Development proving 100% that these groups are in bed with Marxists, that they are promoting abortion, contraception, homosexuality, transgenderism.
Some of them are even actually advocating for the occult.
But In these little sample reports that we sent to the bishops, Bishop Sr.
responded to every single bishop by saying, oh, Catholics can be sure that the Catholic Campaign for Human Development does not finance organizations that are acting against church teaching.
But our reports are solid.
We got all of the evidence, all of the information from primary sources.
These organizations say of themselves, yes, we're rallying for abortion, or we're celebrating the Transgender Day of Remembrance.
Whatever it is, these organizations say it themselves.
So Bishop Timothy Sr. is either being completely duplicitous or he's been duped completely by his own staff.
Where is the congregation on this?
I mean, how widely known is it that they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for, for example, this congregation's united to serve humanity in order to bring these banned books and then widely distribute them to children?
Well, the CCHD has been funding the Congregations United to Serve Humanity since 2012.
Since that time, they've given this organization $247,000, and that's in reported money.
I know that there was a grant for 2022 and 2023 that they received from the CCHD that hasn't yet been disclosed, but the...
They've been around for a very long time.
And the local, in fact, the local diocese in Milwaukee, where they're from, there are two parishes.
They're actually members of this organization.
And one of the deacons from one of those parishes sits on the board of directors.
So they know fully well what this organization is all about.
And the parishioners know this as well?
Well, at least the ones that are members of CUSH. I do know that local Catholics out there in Milwaukee were deeply upset by what was going on, and they've been bombarding the archdiocese and saying, what are you going to do about this?
What would you speculate is CUSH's motivation for this?
Well, I think that Kush's motivation is that they're just hard leftists, and they're pushing a hard left agenda.
Hard left?
I mean, they're pushing a hard pedophilic agenda.
Well, that too.
The executive director is deeply in bed with Planned Parenthood, which also is in bed with the whole pedophilic nonsense as well.
And the murder of children.
I mean, it's a sacrifice of children.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it's inimical to church teaching.
So there's really no way that the Catholic Church can morally give to this organization.
And yet, here we have the CCHD making excuse after excuse and saying, oh, we don't fund organizations like this while they continue to do so.
So the same parents that are taking their kids to these churches who are trying to fight to push this pornographic material out of their public libraries and schools are being duped by their own church, their own faith leaders.
In a sense, yes.
There are a lot of bishops out there that, I mean, Cardinal Cupich is an example, Cardinal Tobin out there in Newark, New Jersey.
These are bishops and cardinals that are deeply in bed with Marxists and pro-aborts and the pro-LGBTQ agenda, and they...
You know, they don't really care about who calls them out on it, but they've got the power, they've got the ear of the Pope, and they're the ones who are keeping the rest of the good bishops under their thumbs.
Does this go all the way up to the Pope?
I think it does in many ways.
A couple of years ago, we did a report on Pope Francis giving laudatory speeches to known Marxists.
These are organizations that actually parade through the streets with signs of Karl Marx, hammer and sickle flags, and he told these individuals, you're a veritable, invisible army.
And he told them, go out and continue to do the work that you're doing.
How detrimental is this to the church?
This is absolutely detrimental.
It's completely undermining what the church teaches on social and moral matters, on theological matters.
And it is causing good faithful Catholics to finance their own enemies.
The ultimate in betrayal is what it is.
Well, would they finance them if they knew that this was going on?
I mean, going back to my original question, it's like, where are the parishioners on this?
Why are they remaining silent?
At large, they must not know.
I mean, there's no way that real believers would be okay with giving up hundreds of thousands of dollars to groups like Kush.
No, and that's very true.
And there are very many vocal Catholics who have been standing up against the CCHD for a long time, but they get kicked down by their pastors, by their bishops.
And because the Catholic media doesn't really want to report on this either, even the conservative Catholic media doesn't really want to report on this.
So the end result is that faithful Catholics are largely unaware of the full intent and wishes of the CCHD, which is why we publish a full list of our analysis of CCHD grantees every year.
You said you have a meeting upcoming with Bishop Strickland.
That's correct.
Tomorrow I'm going to be up in Baltimore with him.
So what is your intent for the meeting and what do you hope to accomplish?
Well, we're going to be praying together up there in Baltimore.
We're holding a rosary rally on Wednesday afternoon at noon.
And my hope is that by working with Bishop Strickland and helping people to understand exactly what is happening within the church, we can combat not only the encroachment of the enemies of Christ as they are gaining power within the church, but to help them not to lose their faith.
Because at the end of the day, that's really and truly what is most important, is helping people to hold on to their faith.
How many people that find out about this realize they were duped, understand that these books and this book drive that they're funding was aimed at sexualizing their children for unfettered access to pedophiles?
How many of them would just turn their back on the church altogether and run?
There are a lot of people who are horribly scandalized by this kind of thing.
And I can't put a number to it, but what I can say is that that's the danger of this kind of activity, is that they'll drive souls out of the church and away from Christ.
I mean, the Catholic Church is absolutely being judged right now.
It has to be, right?
I would think so.
I would think so.
I mean, I honestly think that Pope Francis is a scourge.
He is a chastisement onto the church itself.
How do we get rid of him?
Well, he's not immortal.
So we just have to wait for him to die to escort Satan out of the church again.
I mean, this is...
To know that this is not being reported largely is really scary.
This is extremely dangerous for faithful Catholics and believers of really any denomination across the country.
I mean, this is going on in the Catholic Church.
It's going on elsewhere as well.
Absolutely.
We actually just put out a second report this morning, the Catholic-funded organization called We Are Unchained.
This organization is deeply in bed with Marxists.
They've been the executive director, the foundress of this organization, a woman named Emily Napier Singletary.
Back in 2016, tweeted out, Happy 90th birthday to Fidel Castro.
And she called him a UN world hero of solidarity.
This is the kind of organization that continues to receive funding from the CCHD. The CCHD, by the way, was created specifically to finance Saul Alinsky's community organizing groups back in 1969.
So this really shouldn't come as any kind of surprise.
But, you know, that's the problem is that When we report on things, the mainstream media doesn't really want to talk about it because it's not pleasant and it upsets faithful Catholics at their breakfast.
The infiltration of the Catholic Church is very similar to the infiltration of our federal government.
It seems like those in power are just obsessed with having sex with little kids.
And I think that the push here is to legalize it.
To legalize pedophilia, to make it okay to be a Christian and be okay with it, to turn a blind eye to it, to be apathetic or complacent and allow it to happen.
Hey, just don't bring it to my family, but as long as those people...
I mean, this is insanely dangerous.
And we appreciate you bringing it to our attention, and thank you so much for being here, Michael Hickborn.
Come back soon.
Thank you so much for having me on.
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So the GOP is trying to get people all fired up for 2024.
But so far they seem to have completely given up on actually addressing and fixing the rampant fraud that caused them to lose in 2020 and 2022, and for decades before.
I mean, elections are fake and rigged and stolen.
But instead of recognizing that, all of the work is being done by lonely reporters and independent investigators with almost zero support from the conservative political apparatus.
They're just completely gone.
But despite the best efforts to silence their work, it's finally getting attention.
Starting with this.
Last week, Twitter owner Elon Musk took notice of a Tucker Carlson clip dating back to his days at Fox, which exposed fraudulent behavior in Fulton County during the 2020 election.
What I'm going to show you here is two ballots side by side.
One of them is marked for Jason Shaw, and it's got a little squiggle mark next to it.
You can see it's got the identical mark on the second one.
And The ballot image is stored up here on the top left.
So this one over here is scanner 5162, that's scanner number 3, fax number 235, image number 19.
And that matches 234, image 59.
So you have the same ballot counted twice in the images and counted in the audit board.
How that's possible, I don't know.
Now, Musk's tweet was simply, quote, is this accurate?
But it was viewed more than 50 million times.
And despite the existence of a new community notes feature that could have debunked Tucker's argument, guess what?
No such note was created.
Why?
Because Tucker's clip can't be debunked.
It shows real fraud.
But the fraud doesn't stop there, if you can believe it or not.
Independent investigation of Georgia's voter rolls has exposed, for example, 20 people listed as living at the same abandoned house in Fulton County.
There's thousands of people with ghost addresses like that.
And then you have people who voted despite moving out of state, ballots counted without any signatures, all kinds of other nonsense that we're supposed to accept as perfectly legal and valid and fraud-free.
It's a joke.
Everybody is collectively waking up to an obvious reality.
Fraud is rampant in our elections.
Our elections are rigged and fake and stolen, and our elites are fighting tooth and nail to prevent anyone from stopping him.
One of the brave investigators exposing this fraud is Rachel Alexander at the Arizona Sun-Times.
She spent years digging into suspicious voter registration behavior, not just in Arizona, but in Georgia as well, and she joins us now.
Rachel, thank you so much for coming.
We certainly appreciate always having you here.
How can people argue this at this point anymore?
Well, they can, but they've got everybody on their side.
They've got the judiciary on their side.
They've got the lawyers on their side.
I mean, to try to get any ground and get anybody to do anything about the election fraud is almost impossible.
And, you know, I find it funny that you, you know, asked me to talk about this house in Georgia about the, you know, 20 voters who are registered to vote there.
Because I'm actually about to come out with an article here in Maricopa County.
I talked to a canvasser after the 2020 election, and she said that she found house after house when she went canvassing that had exactly 25 registered voters there.
And she dug deeper, and she said that at one of these houses, the lady was nice enough to talk to her.
There's just one older lady working there, and she said that her...
Her daughter's boyfriend, who lived up the street, was one of those registered voters at this old lady's house.
And so her mailbox is located outside of the fence, so anybody can come and open it.
So we're getting closer to figuring some of this stuff out, and we're thinking that they're deliberately choosing maybe the homes of elderly people where they know they can go and just take the ballots out of the mailboxes.
Why are the police, why is there not one sheriff across the country that's investigating this?
I mean, why is it up to you to investigate this?
Well, by now, all the sheriffs know they'll be canceled.
Look what happened to Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
You know, everyone knows Soros targeted his race with a couple million dollars, took him out.
Any brave sheriffs that stands up, they will do something to get him removed from office.
So you're saying that these people, these sheriffs, who are elected by their constituents inside of their county to uphold the rule of law, Are putting more value on their careers and their income and their own paycheck than they are on the future of our constitutional republic?
Well, I really don't want to badmouth some of the sheriffs here in Arizona, but I've heard that about...
Don't badmouth the sheriffs in Arizona, but let me just ask you an objective question.
Are there any sheriffs in Arizona that are taking this evidence and investigating it as a crime?
Um...
I would hope Sheriff Mark Lamb is, but I'm not hearing a whole lot of noise.
When you have a state like Georgia or a county like Maricopa or others surrounding in the state of Arizona where you have indisputable, concrete, physical evidence of voter fraud, And to not hear loud noise being made by prosecutors or attorneys general or sheriffs to rectify that, what does that say about where we are as a country right now?
Well, we're now in mob rule.
We're now in everybody's scared of the mob coming after them.
Everyone's scared of being put in prison and being prosecuted.
I can kind of understand it.
You know, I wrote an article about some of the attorneys in the Georgia Rico prosecution who took the plea deals.
I mean, I can understand that.
I mean, if you're older, you don't want to spend the rest of your life in prison over bogus reasons.
So if they're going to let you plea to some piddly misdemeanor that has nothing to do with, you know, the main voter fraud charges they're trying to get you on, insurrection, you know.
I can understand that.
But somebody has to fight because the fascists are taking over.
And we've seen this pattern in history all too many times.
And you think that we all just sit there and we need to defend these people who are under attack instead of doing what the GOP is doing right now, which is saying, Oh, we need to stop insulting McCain voters.
No, that's not the problem.
We need to be defending those of us who are under attack, who are speaking out and trying to look into the voter fraud.
Do you think that the GOP actually kind of wants this and is helping to orchestrate this?
Well, I do think, and I wrote an article called Why Rhinos Are Rhinos.
You can find it at Town Hall.
And basically, a lot of these people, they're always older and they're always wealthy.
They've been around too long.
They've made too many friendships.
And they have these businesses, right, that they don't want to risk losing.
So that's the problem.
It's that they're fat and happy.
They don't want to establish what they think the status quo, but the status quo has been knocked off, you know, In recent years, we no longer have the status quo.
I wonder if they feel like that these people aren't coming for them next.
I mean, do they think that they're just going to be able to remain fat and happy?
I mean, these people are coming after us, orchestrating a physical invasion of our country right now.
Weapons caches and dirty bombs all over the place.
They're unleashing weapons of biowarfare.
The military industrial complex has waged war on Americans.
The Department of Defense, the Department of Justice, every single level of every bureaucracy in our federal government Well, what I've been learning, having been through the trenches myself, as you know, when the State Bar came after me in 2010, unless it happens to you...
You might not be woken up.
You might not be red-pilled.
I mean, until it happened to me, I probably would have been just, you know, this fat and happy lawyer the rest of my life.
I don't know.
But basically, people, they're looking at the rest of us and just kind of wanting to go along with it.
When it happened to me, everybody was like, well, Rachel probably really was crooked.
So that's how they're looking at us election fraud people.
They're like, well, they're being a little conspiracy-oriented, and maybe that's all it is.
So you said the judiciary is compromised.
It seems that law enforcement is compromised.
Same thing with the bioweapon, by the way.
I mean, it's a patented weapon of biowarfare.
They forced it on people.
They mandated it.
The people responsible for that should be hanged after a trial.
But the people that are orchestrating this voter fraud, I mean, this is not...
This is not just a little bit of fraud, and I always get the comment, well, it's not systematic, it's not widespread.
Well, how much fraud is acceptable?
Why should there be any fraud in our elections at all?
Why is this the talking point for some of these fake, phony Republican GOP conservatives?
And also, they like to use semantics, okay?
Proving voter fraud, it's a very narrow area to prove.
It usually takes a lot of discovery and a trial in order to get to that particular crime.
They're trying to get you off track.
It's a red herring, okay?
If there's just illegalities in the election, that's enough to overturn the election.
We have widespread illegalities that the evidence is already very clear.
We don't need to rise to the level of even proving voter fraud, even though we know it is widespread voter fraud.
We just haven't been able to get a court to actually go through the whole process and get it proven, you know.
In all of your investigation in this, what do you think is the most damning piece of evidence that you've been able to find?
You know, I did have one that I would say, but there's another one that's, you know, becoming even more prevalent.
The one I have been saying is violating the law of large numbers where, you know, and you can use that for the voting results coming in and switching.
You know, they're supposed to go back and forth a little bit here to Trump, a little bit here to Biden.
They didn't.
The main one that I like to point out is the fact that all the election anomalies always favor Democrats.
You know, we've had statisticians go over the odds of things like that.
And it's just, it's insane odds.
I mean, it just, it couldn't happen.
And they're happening here again.
I mean, I'm sure you've heard about what happened in this Maricopa County election.
They know to do the fraud on election day because Republicans vote earlier on election day.
And guess what?
Republicans all showed up at Maricopa County, eight different vote centers.
If you showed up there right before 7 p.m.
last Tuesday, you didn't get a vote because they were closed at 4.30.
Even though the county told everybody, They were going to close at 7.
I respect your opinion, and I respect you if you don't want to answer this question.
You're a journalist.
You're an investigative reporter.
You're uncovering this stuff.
You're doing more work than law enforcement.
It's still mind-blowing.
What do you think the solution is for any of this?
Do you have an idea of what people can actually do to stop this?
Well, the only thing that I can think of, and I will tell you this, I am talking with some voter integrity organizations, and they're doing some incredible stuff behind the scenes that I don't even know if I'm authorized to say.
But for the average American, you know, if you're like Arizona, where you've got Democrats have stolen the election, so we can't even get the alleged Governor Hobbs to sign voter integrity legislation.
You know, we've got Democrat Adrian Fontes and started the Secretary of State's office, so we can't do anything.
We've got, you know, RINO, Maricopa County Recorder Stephen Richer, so we can't do anything there.
I say stack the polls with election workers, election observers, and also we need employees at Dominion, Runbeck, all of these organizations so we can start having whistleblowers.
And just people say that Virginia went red for Youngkin because they had something like 9,000 Republican observers.
So we need that everywhere, especially in the swing states.
Yeah.
I think Youngkin was an installed fake.
You know, and then you've got CCP tied Kemp in Georgia.
You can't do anything there either.
These people, it's, I don't know.
I don't know that there's a political solution to this, to be honest with you.
Because you stack a place with election watchers and observers, but then like you said, even when the fraud is rampant and blatant and right out in broad daylight, cops aren't going to do anything.
Sheriff's not going to do anything.
Attorneys general have done nothing.
And the judiciary is 100% stacked against you.
Take it to the Supreme Court, they won't even listen to election integrity cases.
It's extraordinary times that we're in right now.
But all we can do is just keep banging the drum, making sure that more and more people are aware of this.
You cannot argue that right now elections are fake.
We're not going to vote harder to get our way out of this.
Somebody has to step up that has a gun and a badge and open an election fraud case.
So if you're a constitutional sheriff and you're out there and you're listening...
You know, you could do a big lot to save this country right now.
We are in big trouble and running out of time.
Rachel Alexander, thank you so much for all of your hard work.
We appreciate you being here.
Thank you.
God bless.
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Welcome back to the Stu Peter Show.
I'm Paul Harrell filling in for Stu.
Palestine, Israel, the promised land.
Any of these names can trigger a vigorous debate these days.
And this debate isn't new.
The debate has been raging for decades and much longer.
It's a safe bet that most people have a strong opinion on the current conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza.
Now many would take exception to merely describing this as a conflict.
They would prefer the terms ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Others would hurl insults of supporting terrorism and Hamas if you dare disagree with the narrative that Israel now has the right to finish off the Palestinians once and for all as Nikki Haley has squawked so many times.
One of the most interesting aspects of this bloody war in the Middle East is how quickly those on the political right in America went from being exhausted with the Russia-Ukraine conflict, having weathered so many lies and neocon propaganda to fully supporting another proxy war, this time in the Middle East.
I've said this before, if you had poll tested a war in the Middle East where Israel is directly threatened, it would have poll tested very well.
What a coincidence that on the heels of the Uniparty and the neocons being embarrassed in Ukraine, we have a shiny new war to double down on a foreign policy that has nothing to do with bettering the lives of Americans who actually live here in the United States.
Now, there are several reasons for this and it all depends on how you view the land of Israel or Palestine.
Dr.
O. Palmer Robertson argues in a recent article entitled Contrasting Perspectives on the Land that there are five different perspectives on the land.
Among those categories is the Pilgrim perspective which is the age old compulsion to travel to the Holy Land and experience it for yourself, walk where Jesus walked.
There's also the Zionist perspective, which basically means that the land of Palestine forever belongs to the Jews.
But then the question arises, how do we know who are the Jews and who aren't the Jews?
Dr.
Robertson addresses this when he writes, The prevailing definition of a Jew
as anyone who has a Jewish mother may have some functional appeal, but since the time of Abraham a Jewish mother might have had not one single drop of Abrahamic blood running through her veins.
The place of Rahab the Canaanite and Ruth the Moabite in the honored line of Davidic kings makes the point rather dramatically.
But if any gentile can become an heir of the promises to Abraham without having any ancestral connection with the Jewish people, then the criteria for inheriting the land cannot be racial.
It is not true to the teaching of the scriptures, he says, to simply say that the racial descendants of Abraham are the rightful heirs of the land of Palestine, for the term Jew cannot be confined to categories of race, end quote.
Now I know that was a mouthful.
But you also have American Christians that, depending on their views on the book of Revelation and eschatology, either hold the modern nation-state of Israel as the fulfillment of prophecy, Or there are those American Christians that believe the biblical religion of Judaism ended in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple as prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Regardless of those two perspectives, Christians should be praying for peace in the Middle East and the preservation of innocent life.
Palestinian children are being slaughtered, and American politicians are cheering it on while attempting to use all of this to springboard our country into a new war with Iran.
Scott Horton is an author and radio host.
He's been speaking out against the ethnic cleansing taking place in Gaza, and he recently said this on Timcast.
These are the same people who are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews.
It's their land that they want to keep.
They were the ones who were there first.
They're the ones being cleansed from their land by the Israeli.
They were living there all along.
And for generations back into antiquity, when a bunch of Russians and Lithuanians and Germans and New Yorkers showed up and said the land belonged to them.
The actual source is David Ben-Gurion himself.
You're saying that Muslims always had this land.
Had been there.
That's right.
Because here's why.
Because when the Muslims came and took over that land, they did not cleanse the land of the people who lived there.
And they did not invade it with a giant occupying force to replace them.
All they did was take them over and tax them.
And then the deal was, if you convert to Islam, you get a tax cut, basically.
You pay less.
And the local people all converted to Islam.
Wait, but so these are the same people who are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews.
And the source for this is David Ben-Gurion himself.
Ben-Gurion says the ancient Hebrews never left.
So you can't take a farmer from his soil.
They were there the whole time.
And so what was happening was the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who had stayed in Palestine We're being replaced by the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who'd gone off to Europe, and then their descendants came home.
As though there's no statute of limitations.
And 3,000 years later, you can come and say, this is my land.
You can't live here.
Scott Horton joins us now.
Welcome to the Stu Peter Show, sir.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you so much for having me.
And please, audience, forgive me for my horrible verbal typo there where I said 3,000 when I meant to say 2,000 years, which is the mythology of the exile of the Jewish people from the Holy Land and all that, which I was attempting to address.
And I just don't know how I got that digit wrong coming out of my mouth, but it happens.
Hey, you know, it's totally understandable.
I hope nobody holds me accountable for all the verbal mistakes I've made while hosting the Stu Peter Show.
So tell us a little bit about that.
I mean, first of all, I know you've been following this issue very, very closely, but this clip is making the rounds because I hadn't even heard this.
The idea that the Palestinians who are Muslim, but they were Jewish a long time ago, converted once the Muslims took over.
And so, in this instance, the Palestinians may actually be the descendants of Jews.
Okay, so first things first here.
I'm no ancient historian.
I'm not even a real historian at all.
I'm a radio host and I'm really good on the terror wars.
But I trust my very good friend, Sheldon Richman, who is the managing editor at the Libertarian Institute and who was raised Jewish and Zionist.
And he wrote this book.
It's called Coming to Palestine.
And we published it at the Institute a couple of years ago.
And it's a collection of his essays that he's written over the years explaining why he's not a Zionist any longer.
And one of the things that he talks about in here is an Israeli, one of the people he talks about here, is an Israeli historian named Shlomo Sand.
And he's a professor at the University of Tel Aviv.
And Sheldon tells a story about how Shlomo Sand went looking for all the books about the Roman exile.
And he couldn't find them.
So he went, and you can imagine the scene of these ancient rabbis behind the counter at the library at the Tel Aviv University.
And he says, guys, where can I find the books on the Roman exile?
And they go, well, yeah, we don't really, that didn't really happen.
Wow.
That's why there's no books on it, because it's just a mythology, right?
What are they going to do?
Put them in boxcars or something?
They were not scattered to wherever.
Now, that does not mean, and I'm no expert on this, but I sure don't mean to say that European Jews aren't really Jews or whatever.
I don't know whose great-great-grandma is who.
That ain't my business.
But all I'm saying is, you know, if whatever number left the Holy Land and went to Europe or went to Morocco or Ethiopia or Yemen or anywhere else, Many of them stayed.
And then, so, interestingly, one of the sources that Shlomo Sands cites is a book by David Ben-Gurion, who is, of course, one of the most important founders of the Israeli state in the 1940s and the first Prime Minister, right?
So this is from page 11 of Coming to Palestine by Sheldon Richman.
He cites this book by David Ben-Gurion, and his co-author, by the way, is Yitzhak Ben-Zivy, who was Israel's second president and a professional historian.
And they wrote a book in 1918 called Eretz Israel in the Past and in the Present.
And then, so Sheldon quotes from that, and I won't read the whole quote to you here, but anyone can look this up.
It's on page 11 and 12, and I think he elaborates more elsewhere.
But here's where he has these direct quotes of Ben-Gurion and his co-author Yitzhak Benzvi saying that These people never left.
Essentially, that quote that I paraphrased there on the Tim Cash show was, you can't separate a farmer from his land.
It's wet with his sweat and his blood and this and that.
I don't think he says blood, but he's mixed his sweat with that land and you can't remove a farmer from his land.
And so these are the same people, essentially, that Ben-Gurion himself argued.
Now, his argument, I don't think it was a dishonest one.
You could say he had a motive for arguing that, which was...
You know, see, we've been there all along and now us European Jews have the right to go back there, too, something like that.
Fine.
But he was still explaining in great detail, too.
I mean, he wasn't bluffing.
You can tell that this is essentially the case.
Now, who all was a Canaanite and who all was a son of this guy and that guy?
I don't think anybody really knows, but see, that's the point.
You know, Paul, I was under the impression when I was younger that what we have here is a fight over, well, God gave us this land.
No, God gave us this land.
Well, to me, I mean, you could throw in the Christians too, right?
And it could be a big fight over who God gave the land to if you want to redo the Crusades and all of this stuff.
And to me, it's all basically...
Unsolvable, no matter how much faith you might have in your religion, when the argument is who God meant to own the land, that is essentially will only be fought with force until somebody wins, right?
There's no resolution to that.
There's no compromise to that.
But the thing is, that's not right, okay?
That's a lie, really.
It's a propaganda kind of...
And I know a lot of people believe it, you know, sincerely and don't mean to be dishonest about it.
But the thing is about it is the Palestinians aren't really saying, no, God gave us this land.
We're the descendants of Abraham and therefore we have this magical power to it all and this and that.
They're saying, and maybe there's some of that, I'm sure they don't deny whatever mystical right they supposedly have or might claim.
But their real claim is that this is their land.
This is their great-grandfather's land.
This is where their great-great-grandfather is buried.
This is where their people are from.
It's their land.
You know, in all of Western civilization for the last 300 years, right?
We go by Locke and then Jefferson and our basic understanding of property rights.
And the average person, this is the revolution that was already won, especially in America, that the average guy can own property.
And so...
I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.
No, no, no.
You're raising some interesting points.
So this is, obviously, we have Palestinian children being slaughtered.
If you believe those on...
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
I'm such an idiot.
Please forgive me.
But what I meant to say was that the Palestinians are saying, we're from here.
And it's the European Jews who came and said, no, we have this supernatural property right that overrides your natural property right.
You can talk about John Locke and your great grandfather mixed his sweat with the soil.
But we have, we might be from Lithuania, but we have a book that says that it's okay for us to kick you out.
Of course, that's not really what the Bible says, although that ain't my expertise either.
But that's the basis of the Israeli claim here.
That being Jewish, whether you're a Moroccan Jew or a New Yorker or a Lithuanian or a Russian or a German or a Pole or whoever, that you have the right to return to this land because of this claim from religious faith that overrides the basic human claim of property rights by the people who are already there.
So, if that's your religion, fine.
I guess, who could argue with that?
However, you gotta understand why the Palestinians don't see it that way.
And you gotta understand whether they're Christian or Muslim.
What do you mean that the Bible says you get to move me out and move you in?
Right?
No, no.
I mean, that certainly makes sense.
And, you know, the idea throughout all of this discussion, you actually never hear the word property rights ever discussed because I think people would kind of see this blatant, really injustice, you know, that's going on.
They say instead, they go, there never was a Palestine.
Meaning what?
That then you get to move all the individual human beings off of their private property?
Yeah.
Well, I'm curious if there's any documentation of the conversion that you mentioned.
That, you know, when the Muslims take over, and I don't know exactly what year that was, you know, roundabouts, but the Muslims basically, you know, take over.
And the idea, the claim is there, you know, were Jewish people there that then converted.
I believe that the tax, called the jizya, I think, You know, in order to, if you want to stay, you know, your religion, you're going to have to pay a tax.
You're going to remain Jewish, but you'll give you a tax break, like you said.
I mean, that is a real thing, you know, in Muslim law.
But do you know, is there any documentation that supports that there was a conversion?
Yes.
Again, not the expert on this, but I will refer all of your listeners and viewers to Shlomo Sand.
And he's the author of The Invention of the State of Israel and The Invention of the Jewish People.
And a professor, again, at Tel Aviv University.
And he's the guy who Sheldon Richman is quoting so heavily here in Coming to Palestine.
And there's quite a bit of it in Coming to Palestine as well, if you want the primer take on it.
Yeah, I mean, it's just fascinating to me, because I've never, ever heard that perspective.
But I mean, it's certainly believable if you understand what happened when you have the Roman siege against Jerusalem in 70 AD. You have essentially the destruction of the temple, and then years and years later, we have the Muslims coming to take the land, and I could easily see the conversion happening, because why wouldn't it happen?
You know what I mean?
I guess the way the story...
The way I've learned this story from Sheldon is, essentially, it was not a matter of ethnic replacement, where the Arabs from Arabia came by the tens or hundreds of thousands and came and completely populated that area and kicked the people out when they came.
It really wasn't that.
They sent their overlords and came and announced, we're your new overlords, and then...
Convert or, not convert or die, convert or pay higher taxes.
Or die, because of course all taxes are enforced at gunpoint ultimately.
Yeah, that's true.
But still, so that was the way out.
Was, you know, join us.
And you'll be in better favor.
And so that was what happened.
And of course, there's all kinds of people and powers have ruled over that area and forced different conversions at different times.
And who knows the master history of all of that?
I sure don't.
But I guess the overriding point is there never was a mass ethnic cleansing out of Palestine unless you want to count 1948.
Otherwise, you're talking about more or less the same people there.
There was a lot of killing in the Crusades.
You could say there never was an ethnic cleansing, but what's happening right now?
I'd love to get your thoughts on what's happening right now quickly.
Is every Palestinian child a human shield?
Because to me, that's what it sounds like is coming from the finish them side.
I'm not denying Israel's right to respond after being attacked.
Although I still have a lot of questions on how they were attacked.
But to just say, hey, we're going to glass the whole country when you have 50% of kids, and we're just to believe.
Every time there's something, I mean, I've got friends, and every time you show them some Palestinian child who's dead or these apartment buildings with women and children collapsing, They say, well, you know, Hamas is using them as human shields, and that's just part of it.
And I'm like, really?
Is every single casualty?
Are you going to say every single casualty over there of civilians?
Well, those were human shields?
It's just preposterous to me.
Go ahead.
Yeah, it's like, look, I like the Dallas Cowboys, no matter how many of them are crackheads who beat their wives and drive drunk and are scum, right?
Like, no, that's my team.
I don't care.
And I'm not saying they all are like that now, but I know in the past we've had some pretty rough cowboys, you know?
But that's what we're talking about.
What you're describing there are major rationalizations.
I hardly even consider that thinking, right?
This is parroting the talking points of propagandists for war.
That somehow...
Look, we know what it means to have a human shield.
A human shield is like when the Imperial officer grabs Princess Leia and holds him in front of her.
So that Luke can't shoot him, right?
That's a human shield.
And in fact, you can look up and see literal human shields being used, Palestinian children being used by the Israelis as human shields in past wars, forcing them to go into the houses first as they're raiding houses, tying them to the hoods of their Jeeps as they drive through in previous wars in Gaza.
That's a human shield.
We know what that is.
When the Israelis say human shields, this is a what?
It's a propaganda term of art.
That means exactly how you just paraphrase it.
All civilian lives are up for grabs because I said the magic words, right?
Like a cop, when he blows away an unarmed guy, he goes, oh, he was reaching for his waistband.
So it's just your magic words.
You get the license to kill and get away with doing whatever you want.
That's completely crazy.
And you just think about it like this.
We know that right now Hamas is holding a bunch of Israeli Jewish hostages in the Gaza Strip.
Would anyone who's saying that the Palestinian babies are, oh, they're just human shields, so it's okay to kill them, is that what you would say about the Jewish hostages?
If the Israelis bombed where they knew that the hostages were to kill one Hamas guy, would you go, oh, well, they're just human shields?
They've lost their humanity because they're being held captive by someone with a gun to their head?
And now it's okay to blow them away?
And, you know, I've seen, this is an original, I've seen people on Twitter say, How many times do you have a bank robbery where a guy's got hostages?
Who says call in an airstrike on a bank and kill them all?
Yeah, that's exactly right.
No, you're sending Sam Jackson to talk to the guy, get him some cigarettes, calm him down, figure it out.
And listen, we know too, and the great Martyr Maid, I hope everyone follows Daryl Cooper, the brilliant podcaster, Martyr Maid, who says, listen, guys, we already know the entire history of Israel.
Because they never allowed the Palestinians to have their independent state this whole time.
We all know how they've dealt with terrorism the whole time, whether it's from the PLO, from the FPLF, Islamic Jihad, or Hamas.
Mossad and Shin Bet, and if necessary, the IDF, can reach out and touch these guys one at a time, no problem.
We're not talking about a foreign nation across a border.
We're talking about a bunch of Indians in their reservation, right, in a concentration camp under the complete control of the Israeli state.
The Palestinians are not the state next door.
See, and I know people are very confused by this, and I know I used to be confused by it.
And we're talking about the Israelis and the Palestinians.
It sounds like the Palestinians already have a country, right?
Because everybody has a country, but they don't.
They were lit and beaten and conquered back 60 years ago almost now.
A longer time, they've been occupied by Israel for a longer time than the Soviets occupied Eastern Europe.
They live in a totalitarian state.
Not just martial law, but foreign military occupation law, which is hardly law at all.
My wife is from Soviet Ukraine.
Her family got out when it was still the commie country there.
And without going into any specific examples, I can tell you, They lived in absolute terror of their police state.
It was, whatever you heard about Soviet communism, even in the 70s, after the worst of the days of Stalin, whatever, but still, The worst stories you heard about the Soviets are true.
That's exactly what communism is like, is exactly what when they told you that they're the boogeyman.
That's exactly how it was.
Well, that's how the people of Palestine have been living this whole time.
Like they're, you know, Romanians under communism.
Wow.
And even then, under a complete dominance, I mean, imagine if Romanian communism was just the Russians ran the government, ran everything, not just sorta and covertly and through coercion, but like literally, Romanians weren't in charge.
Yeah, there was no, there was no Romania, there was no sovereign Romania, not even the lie or the phantom of sovereignty.
That's right.
These people are beaten, and that's why they fight.
And that's not to take the side of Hamas.
I'll tell you, Paul, the truth is...
And I'm not sure about the context of bringing this up, because maybe it sounds crass to people.
I don't mean it necessarily as a disclaimer, but I just want people to understand the truth to this.
I actually have an extended family member who was abducted and killed by Hamas in the October 7th attack.
Wow.
Okay?
So, I consider these guys, I already considered them to be what?
They're like half a clique left of Al-Qaeda, right?
They're not quite Bin Laden and them, but they're pretty bad Islamist terrorists, right?
Like, who sympathizes with Certainly the commanders of those armed fighters.
Those armed fighters might be 17, 18-year-old boys.
I might look the other way.
But the men who run Hamas, their armed wing, and the atrocities that they ordered these men to commit under their command and all that...
Nobody apologizes for that.
Nobody's on their side.
Of course not.
The question only is, well, but who are these people and what is going on here?
You know, 20 years ago, they told us, well, they just hate us because we're free and because we're good and they're evil and Islam makes them evil and attack goodness.
And then so we're gonna go out there and we're gonna whoop them and then we'll be fine.
And then here we are 20 years later and the war on terrorism is still going on.
We got attacks on our guys across the Middle East right now.
And we got Israel still bombing the Gaza Strip.
And none of this has been resolved.
It can't just be that they hate innocence because We ain't been innocent the last 20 years, and the problem still remains.
Maybe it was Bush's sins before 9-11 that brought that on, not their goodness.
Now we're going to have, in all likelihood, the more we push, the more we get involved in another proxy war or directly, we're going to have more terrorist attacks here, more than likely.
Americans are likely going to die because of our warmongering ways.
I agree with that.
Listen, I think al-Qaeda is still a real danger.
You know, Barack Obama used to bomb them in Yemen starting in 09, and then that only made them more and more powerful anyway.
It didn't hurt them.
It only grew them.
But then he switched sides in 2015, and Donald Trump kept the war going his entire four years, and it sort of petered out in early Obama, in early Biden, no thanks to Biden.
But America literally was fighting with Saudi and UAE on the side of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
The guys that tried to blow up the underpants bomb over Detroit and blow up that plane on Christmas Day 2009 that did the Charlie Hebdo and the other massacres in France.
America was backing them outright for years, eight years in that war.
They remain, and their motive to attack the United States remains.
We built them up, but that doesn't mean we bought them off.
And I don't want to be too alarmist about that, but I agree with you.
When these enemies still exist, and when our government continues to create motive for them to attack the United States, it's only a matter of time.
And we've got a highway that's called the Southern Border.
They're just coming across.
Scott Horton, thank you so much for coming on the Stu Peter Show.
Really appreciate your insight.
Thank you.
And let's do it again sometime.
Absolutely.
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