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March 19, 2023 - Stew Peters Show
56:58
The Richard Leonard Show: The PACT Act Is About More Than Just Burn Pits
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We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
August, August, 2022, the PACT Act was passed into law.
Many people have been asking about why is this important?
Why is toxic exposure and burn pit exposure really a big deal?
Well, today we are going to have a conversation with a friend of mine named Tori, About her husband's story with toxic exposure.
Today you're going to learn why this is important and why you should be paying attention.
So stick with us.
Don't go away.
We start now.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome here to the next episode of The Richard Leonard Show.
I want to thank you, as always, for joining us this evening.
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Okay, so today, folks, we are going to have a conversation with a friend of mine by the name of Tori.
Tori is the widow of a great man who ended up, unfortunately, passing due to toxic exposure.
And so when folks ask, why is this important?
Why is everyone up in arms about these burn pits and this exposure to toxic chemicals?
We're going to learn why.
Just like we learned why it was important to identify Agent Orange from the Vietnam War.
So let me do something here and find Tori.
There she is.
Hi Tori, how are you?
Hi.
Thank you for joining us today and thank you for being willing to tell your story.
It's an amazing thing and I think that it'll help a lot of people understand what's really going on.
Um, why don't we start with, can you just kind of give us a little bit of background about yourself and how you and, and your husband Jay came to be, and then we can continue on from there.
Um, okay.
A little bit about me.
I'm, I come from a very long line of military.
Uh, my father was fifth group.
My grand, uh, both my grandparents, both my grandfather served.
Um, Long line of military.
I worked for a defense contractor for a number of years.
Jay and I met when we were in high school.
We were best friends.
We went our separate ways after high school for about 13 years.
And then another friend of ours called me up and said, hey, whatever happened to him?
So I tracked him down.
So not only did you work for a defense contractor, but you're one hell of an investigator, it seems like.
It wasn't that hard.
To be honest, it wasn't that hard finding a nail.
I found him and sent him an email going, I'm not sure if you're the right Jay Seals.
Do you remember me?
That type of thing.
And he called me that night and we talked almost every day.
Every day that we could.
Now, when he was in basic training, when he was deployed, that wasn't always an option.
But we tried.
Awesome.
A couple of years after I found him, we got married.
Then in March of 2008, at age 34, he signed his name on that dotted line.
He, 34 years old, went, hey honey, what do you think?
And I went, Okay, I'll follow you wherever you want to go.
So can I ask you something quick?
Because it's not common that folks join at that stage of their life.
Although, when I got in the Army in the early 2000s, we had a couple guys who were in their early to mid-30s, and they said that they just had this...
After 9-11, of course, just had this calling to serve.
What do you think it was that made Jay decide, you know what, I need to serve my country?
He wanted to protect me and his two stepkids.
Awesome.
He wanted to protect what I call our daughter.
And our son.
He was technically the stepdad but he was more dad than just step.
He decided he wanted to protect and take care of us as best he could and at that point in time 2008 was when a lot of stuff was happening in the stock market and housing and he just That's it.
I got to take care of my family.
I got to do what's right.
So he joined up.
That's awesome.
Okay, so I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Okay, sorry.
He moved.
He went through basic training, graduated basic training, same day he turned 35.
And then he did AIT, and then they shipped the whole family up to Fort Campbell.
Okay.
And that's where he served, with the 101st.
And that's where he was at for most of his career, other than deployment, or the whole time?
Pretty much the whole time.
He deployed to Afghanistan with the 2502.
101st.
Then he came home in May of 2011.
And then in October of 2011, he was shipped to Belgium for two years, unaccompanied.
And then he came back home in October 2013.
And he was then assigned to the FOD 101, the combat aviation at Fort Campbell.
So even though he went to Belgium, we stayed at Fort Campbell and the surrounding areas.
Okay.
Okay.
And so let's get into where Jay had picked up his medical issues, his toxic exposure issues.
And I know it's probably hard to pinpoint exactly when it was, but how did all that come about?
I'd like to just kind of get a rundown of, I mean, it doesn't just, it had to have been a progression, right?
It wasn't just one day, oh my god, I'm super sick, and then, oh my, you were exposed.
Like, there had to have been a progression through that whole process.
In June of 2010, he deployed downrange to Afghanistan.
He was in Helmed province near at Fabhousie Madad, and he also went out to Gundagar occasionally.
He came home in 2011, and he started in May of 2011.
And he'd always, his stomach, we thought it was stress.
We thought it was a number of different things.
So in October of 2011, he gets shipped down to Belgium.
He was at Chevreuse Air Base at Shape Area.
Well, he started complaining about his abdomen and stomach and everything, and they went, oh, you've got a hernia.
They did a scan in 2012 and found that he had a hernia.
When they did the scan, they saw the hernia, immediately scheduled surgery to fix the hernia, and then The radiologist also saw that there was mass.
Documented that there was mass.
It was two centimeters at that point.
It was a little bitty two centimeter mass.
It was documented.
It was put in his file.
He was patted on the back and sent on his merry way.
He was told about the hernia, but he was not told about the mass.
He was not treated for the mass.
Just so I'm following here.
He had scans done.
Hernia is there.
The doctor documented that there was something other than a hernia, but nobody ever said anything to him about this other mass or this other spot or this other thing that's in his body.
Just sent him back to duty?
Nobody told him anything.
Patted him on the back, taught him to drink water, have your hernia surgery, and have fun.
He was never told about the mass.
Okay.
I can tell you for a fact, any man is told that they have a mass in their abdomen, they're going to seek help.
Initially, someone tried to say, well, maybe they told him and he just didn't do anything, and I laughed at them.
Because they know your husband better than you know your husband.
Yeah.
Oh, I went off a little bit.
Rightfully so.
He goes and does the hernia surgery.
Everything, they're saying that he did great.
The doctor actually told him that he clipped a couple of nerve endings to make sure that he would be able to do sit-ups sooner.
Which I was so livid about to begin with.
But that was neither here nor there.
What was done was done.
We just kept going.
He came home in October of 2013.
And he kept going to sick call and he kept going to the clinic and trying to get...
He's like, something's not right.
Something is wrong.
And they kept telling him, oh, you're just malingering.
Oh, it's phantom pains from the hernia surgery.
Oh, you're just trying to get out of PT. You're just...
You're trying to malinger.
And he's like, something's really wrong.
And he was like, one week he would gain 10 pounds, and the next week he would lose 15.
Eating the same thing, doing the same thing, his weight was drastically fluctuating.
His eating habits, he couldn't hold food down easily.
Something was wrong, and nobody was listening.
They just kept saying he was faking.
They didn't say you're faking.
They did the, oh, you're malingering.
Well, isn't that the same thing?
It's the same thing, but it's the polite way to say it.
Yeah, well, okay.
Yeah.
Or it was phantom pains from the hernia surgery.
That had to be it.
I've never even heard of that.
I've never even heard of anybody having phantom pains after getting a hernia removed.
Maybe that's a thing, but I've never heard of it.
I can guarantee it is because I had abdominal surgery.
I had a hysterectomy and I can guarantee phantom pains are a thing.
However, it's always a good idea to check it and make sure it is phantom.
That there's not some underlying problem like maybe they left a surgical sponge in or something.
Oh, let's double check.
Just to be on the safe side.
So let me ask you this real quick before you continue.
How...
So he goes in, he has this operation done, and he was, after the initial find of the hernia, right, where they found the mass and didn't say anything, it sounds like he was going to sick call into the doctor many, many, many, many times.
And over all these times, going back to the TMC to be seen and treated, did nobody read his chart and go, holy cow, well, the doctor said you have this thing.
Maybe that's it.
Maybe we should check that out.
That never came up?
Apparently not.
Interesting.
Well, I'm not a doctor, but I would imagine that before you see a patient, if they have a file, you kind of peruse it and see if there's anything that's not supposed to be there.
That's what I would do.
I'm not medical, so I have to try to stay calm.
All right.
I digress.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
So in April of 2016, He comes to me and his belly is distended and he's in pain and he's not doing good.
So I take him to the emergency room at Blanchfield Army Community Hospital and they hand him a A very strong laxative, one that they've even made YouTube and TikTok videos about this stuff.
They said, here, take this.
You're just constipated.
They didn't do an x-ray.
They didn't do a scan.
They didn't do anything.
They just pushed on his belly and went, oh, you're constipated here.
And they sent him home.
So as if they even felt the mass in his belly and just assumed that it was a bunch of turds in there that haven't came out.
Yes.
Okay.
Interesting.
Army doctors.
He comes home and he hands me this bottle and he says, I need to drink this.
And I went, no, you're not.
I said, you're not drinking that.
We're going to...
Go lay down.
Get some rest.
I'll take you back to the ER tomorrow if it's still a problem.
So we go back the next day.
We see a different doctor.
Thank God.
And they immediately went, oh, you have a bowel obstruction.
Okay, how are we going to fix this?
So they admit him to the hospital and they do a nasal gastric tube and basically pump everything that's in his system out through the nasal gastric tube.
I apologize if that is graphic.
It sounds painful.
It was.
And he was there for five days.
They never did a CT scan or an MRI. They only did an x-ray because apparently the community military hospital did not have a working MRI or CT scan.
So he's in the hospital for five days.
During this time, I am meeting with his surgeons going...
Because they're talking, if this doesn't resolve it, they're going to have to cut him open.
And I'm going, okay.
Now, keep in mind, he went and had...
He was at Longstool.
They did a hernia surgery.
This is what they did.
This is how they did it.
Please read his chart.
Please make...
And the doctors went, oh, we got this.
We know what we're doing.
And it was basically, let...
Let us do our job.
You don't know anything.
It's like, okay.
I just can't get past that.
Isn't that like a...
I can't imagine that in the medical industry, in the medical field, the oath you take as a doctor and a medical provider, I can't imagine that...
You don't look at those things, especially when a loved one is saying, he had this, please look at it.
How much time does it, are you that offended that some soldier's wife is like, hey, can you check out his chart?
That doesn't say anything about you being a crappy doctor.
Well, there's also some question as to if his medical records transferred correctly from Longstool.
This was something I found later.
Yes.
However, when I went and requested his medical records, and I said, I need them from Lundstuhl, and I need them from the Shape Health Clinic, and I need them here and here and here, when we found out that he had cancer.
I went and did the, okay, I need copies of all of his medical records from everywhere at any point in time.
From MEPS to now.
Smart.
It took them three tries to finally get me a document that I knew should have been in that stack.
It took me filling out the form three separate times and them attempting to get me all the documents.
On the third try, I finally got what I call the offending document.
I finally got the offending document included.
Thankfully, in his IPERMs, later his National Guard Medic pulled his IPERMS and was able to find that what I refer to as the offending document.
That was the document from Shape Health that said a mask was found, follow-up is needed.
That was when we met.
It was sitting in there the whole time.
Folks, for those of you watching or listening, we are using some army jargon here.
So just so you're aware, IPERMS is an electronic system where service members, every piece of paper that you're ever given, every medical record, every finance record, everything, Your supply records, all of those things are all uploaded to this secure database where you can then download these documents to use them later, and it alleviates the reason to have what they call a 201 file of paperwork.
So this was just an easier way, theoretically, to track soldiers' records.
So that's what we mean when we talk about IPERMs.
So this document was sitting in his IPERMs, The whole time.
If somebody would have, I mean, and I guess, you know, when you say that there were some questions about whether or not it even transferred correctly, I suppose it's possible that it wasn't findable in there, but it would seem to me that if it was in there, it was put in when he was in Launstool and it was there the whole time.
Just nobody bothered to check it out.
And it was in French and in English?
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, I have copies of it.
So he was hospitalized at that point for five days.
Because he was in the process of ETSing, they basically did the, sometimes bowel obstructions just happen, follow up with primary care later on, pat you on the back, kick you in the butt and send you on your way.
Drink fluids, take ibuprofen, the standard.
You'll be fine.
Go live your life.
Yeah, drink water, take Motrin, and shut up.
Yeah.
Got it.
So he ETS'd, and the hospitalization was in April.
In May, he ETS'd and joined the National Guard.
Okay.
Okay, so through that process, that was May, and he's still having stomach problems, still having all of this, so he goes to the VA. And I know I am an anomaly, but I am definitely one of those, thank God for the VA, because if it hadn't been for them, we might never have known.
And the VA actually, they sent him to an ear, nose, and throat guy.
The ear, nose, and throat guy was like, there's nothing here.
So they sent him to a diagnostic where they did a scope down his throat.
And they said, oh, this is going to take a couple of hours.
Go have lunch because I went with him.
Because he was not going to be able to drive after that scope.
Right.
So, 10 minutes after they wheel him back, I get a phone call, Mrs.
Seals, we need you here now.
Oh, man.
Okay.
Oh, crap.
Yeah.
You know when they say it's going to be a couple hours, go have lunch, and they're calling you 10 to 15 minutes in?
That's not a good sign.
Right.
So, they pull me in and say, okay, he's got cancer.
Have they told him at this time yet?
No, he was still under anesthesia.
Okay.
Because it was one of those scopes where they go in through the mouth and all the way down and they wanted him knocked completely out for that.
Thank God.
Yes.
So they pulled me aside and sat me down and went, okay, we think it's, we saw cancer.
We saw a mass.
We're pretty sure it's cancer.
Let's get on this.
Let's get this going.
Okay, so that was in October 2016.
Actually, that was...
In mid-September, by the first week in October, we had the final diagnosis, which was stage 4 stomach cancer that had metastasized throughout his body.
And at that point, it was a 22 centimeter mass.
Yes, so 10 times the size that it was when he had the original operation for the hernia.
And so here's my question, Tori, is how do you keep your cool in that time?
Because I would think that your thought was, there's no way that something this big just showed up.
My husband has been to the doctor multiple, multiple, multiple times, and now this thing is just showing up all these years later.
So do me a favor, think about that.
We've got to end the segment here, but we'll be right back, folks.
Hey folks, thanks for joining us again this week.
I really appreciate you being here.
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Hey folks, and welcome back here to the next segment of the show.
When we ended the last segment, we were talking about, well, Tori was telling us about Jay's diagnosis and that he had joined the National Guard.
And then I was on my soapbox, as usual, about how nobody ever looked at his records to find that this mass was documented many years before he got very, very sick.
So, Tori, let's just continue on the timeline.
So, Jay joined the National Guard.
And let's continue from there.
Okay, so in May of 2016, he joined the National Guard.
In October of 2016, he was diagnosed with stage four stomach cancer.
At that point, they told me he had three to six months left.
He immediately went to his leadership with the National Guard.
And walked in the door and said, I'm not going to be able to fulfill my contract.
I have stage four stomach cancer.
And they went, wait, didn't you just ETS out?
Jay went, yes, I just ETS'd in May.
And somebody went, but you went from perfectly fine being released from the Army in May to here it is October and you have stage four stomach cancer?
I think there's a problem with this.
Absolutely.
So, thankfully, the medical sergeant in charge of his unit at the Tennessee National Guard pulled his entire medical record, printed everything out, and decided that it would be in our best interest to do what's called a line of duty, an LOD. Basically, it was the National Guard going...
Back to Big Army saying, guys, you kind of screwed up here.
We need you to take this soldier back and fix him.
Well, unfortunately, with stage four stomach cancer, there's no fixing.
Yeah, not a whole lot.
But they at least sent orders.
It was Title 10 orders.
So he got full benefits for himself and for me and our kids.
He was line of duty and assigned to the Warrior Transition Battalion at Fort Gamble.
They are now called the Soldier Recovery Unit.
They went through and changed the name last year or the year before.
But back then, it was the WTB. And I have to say, for the two years that we were with them, they were absolutely phenomenal.
They They did everything within their power to make him as comfortable as possible.
That's good to hear.
I did volunteer work up there.
I helped them raise money.
It was like being a part of a real unit with the Army, which we had had some experiences With one unit it was a phenomenal FRG and everything was great and it was the unit was a family.
Then we had some others that Not so much.
I'm trying to find polite ways to put this stuff.
We had one FRG that was clearly an extremely large problem for the soldiers that were deployed when we came home.
But that's a whole other conversation.
Oh yeah, we had one FRSA that, yeah, we won't get into that publicly.
So, he was assigned to the WTB, and he had phenomenal first sergeant, and he had a group of sergeants that were absolutely phenomenal, were there.
If I picked up the phone and called them, they were at my house to help with anything that was needed, because There was one time he got stuck in a bathtub because I couldn't...
I had already blown out three discs physically picking him up and moving him around.
Yeah.
At this point, so when he got stuck in the bathtub towards the end of his life, it was like, I can't get you out, honey.
I don't know what to do.
So I called, they talked me through it, and then the next morning they showed up and helped me get everything situated so that that wouldn't happen again.
And the only reason why they didn't show up the night that he was stuck in the bathtub is because he told me, point blank, I am not being rescued by my first sergeant.
I can understand that mentality, though.
I get it.
Naked and in a bathtub, and I can't get myself out, and I'm a soldier, damn it.
I am not calling my first sergeant for this one.
Absolutely.
Okay, honey.
I'll do what I can.
But they were phenomenal.
Yeah.
In October, actually it was Halloween of 2018, I was woken up at about 3.30, 4 o'clock in the morning to him screaming and crying.
He was in pain.
I called the hospice nurse.
They came out.
They showed me how to use the transition kit is what they called it.
It had morphine and it would help him transition from life to death.
Comfortably.
As comfortably as possible.
It was not comfortable even for him.
As long as he still had vocalization, he couldn't speak at that stage, but the vocalization that he was making and the physical body language during the transition, it was not peaceful.
I'll just leave it at that.
But finding out through the line of duty That's when I found out about what I refer to as the offending document that's in English and in French about a mass had been found.
Way back in the initial hernia surgery, yeah?
In November of 2012.
Is when they found the mask.
It wasn't treated until 2016, October 2016.
And then he died October of 2018.
So, through that process, we found that document.
I have to admit, I did a lot of yelling.
I did a lot of screaming.
Rightfully so.
I did a lot of drinking.
It was right after he passed, I was so, so mad finding these documents.
Knowing that had military medical done their job, I wouldn't have lost my best friend.
Well, I can't imagine how you felt, but it makes it even extra frustrating, Tori, because as we talked about earlier in the show, he had been to the doctor so many times, and there were so many opportunities for somebody to see this annotation.
Even though most people probably don't speak French, but to know that it was in there twice in two different languages is even more frustrating.
And then also to realize that, you know, from 2012 to 2018 is a large amount of time.
If somebody would have looked in 2015, Maybe, just maybe they could have done something and Jay would still be here.
Or 2014 when he went to the hospital for an allergic reaction.
Or what they ruled was an allergic reaction.
I don't think it was.
But yeah, numerous trips to the emergency room, trips to the clinic, trips.
Something's not right.
Something's wrong.
Something's...
Something's off.
And then on top of all that, being called a malingerer and here's your Motrin and your canteen, go back to work.
And now, so all that comes to a head at the point where Jay passes on.
And I'm sure all those emotions come up about all those conversations and all this, these trips to the doctors and being talked to by your leadership and all that stuff.
And now I wonder, I mean, I guess I don't wonder, but I would imagine that a lot of these people would have looked back and said, oh my god, well maybe from now on we should probably take seriously some of the things that our soldiers tell them is going on with them.
And after 19 years in the Army, I think it's pretty easy to tell when somebody really has something going on or they're malingering.
And so I don't know that whole thing.
That's a whole other conversation, I think.
I would rather err on the side of caution.
Right.
Make sure that that soldier, sailor, airman, or marine is physically and emotionally okay than call them a malingerer.
Now, I'm not saying that they don't exist.
I don't.
Doing what I'm doing now, I have actually come across some that I just sit back and go, oh, how did you get benefits and how has nobody taken you out of this system because there's no way that the facts match up.
But I'd rather that malingering Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, Veteran, get treatment than not.
Because no matter if their situation is as bad as they say it is or not, they still deserve care and treatment.
Yes, yes, I agree 100%.
And what are you missing, right?
So if I go to sick call instead of joining the company on a three-mile run and I miss out on the PT for the day, I understand that PT is a huge issue.
It's a huge part of your military career.
And trust me, I struggled with it my whole career.
I'm not the smallest of fellas on the planet.
But if I don't pass a PT test and I don't get promoted and I fail enough of them and then I start to get chaptered out because of it, well, that's on me.
But also, if I'm sick and something's not right, I need to go take care of that.
And so, through all of this, when was it discovered, if it was, Tori, that the cancer that Jay had was...
Was it...
So, in 2017...
Thank you.
I was looking for the right word.
In 2017, at the beginning of 2017, they did genetic testing to try to find out the origin of the cancer.
Because when you're dealing with oncology and cancer, they want to try to figure out where it came from so that they can treat it correctly.
So a lot of times they will do a battery of tests and part of that battery of tests is a genetic test.
Well, the results came back and said this is not genetic based.
You don't have any of the alleles or any of the markers associated with a genetic inherited based cancer.
So then the assumption in the medical field, as far as I understand, I am not medical, I'm just going by what the doctors told me.
If it is not genetic, then most likely it is environmental.
Whether that is something that you have eaten, something you have had to drink, something you have inhaled, something that you've absorbed through your skin.
Some toxic exposure has occurred.
Okay.
So that brings us now to the whole thing that we set out to talk about today, which is the PACT Act.
Now, a lot of people are claiming that the PACT Act is just about burn pits.
And so I think that it's very important we have about nine minutes left in the segment that I think we should dedicate that nine minutes to talking about why This PACT Act is not just about burn pits.
It's about toxic exposure and how that can come in many different forms.
Not just being burned in a pit and the smoke settling on your skin.
But there's a lot of other elements.
As we know, Jay was a communications guy.
There's a whole lot of things that those commo fellas are exposed to.
So...
Now, it's my understanding, and from what I've been able to gather through a bunch of research over the last five years, you have exposure.
There are many different types of exposure.
You've got what was already in the ground.
For, say, in Afghanistan, you've got...
Because Afghanistan has been at war with Russia and so many other...
You've got the tribal wars.
You've got the Russian wars.
You've got so many conflicts that have happened in Afghanistan.
And you've got the entire Seaburn spectrum, which is chemical, biological...
Nuclear.
Nuclear and...
Radiation.
Radiation.
Thank you.
You've got the entire...
Seaburn spectrum in there that's already in the soil.
Then you've got these pits where you throw all your trash in Which, okay, trash.
You think that it's just trash.
No, we're talking vehicles that have been coated in specialized anti-rust paint, anti-rust, anti-radar paint that when it's heated up becomes a super carcinogen.
You've got...
The medical waste, you've got the plastics, you've got the computers, you've got the servers, you've got weaponry, you've got ammunition, all of which is tossed into this pit and lit on fire.
Okay, so that then takes everything that's in the ground and aerates it.
So you've got the smoke from what's in the pit, and then you've also got the seaburn soup underneath it that is now being aerated and pushed out into the entire forward operation base or the combat outpost or base or whatever you're on.
So that then aerates it.
Once it's aerated, then it It permeates the entire base, the entire location.
You've got the dining facility.
So whatever you're eating, whatever you're drinking, whatever you're showering in, all absorbs those toxins.
So you've got what you're eating, what you're drinking, what you're sleeping in, what you're sleeping next to, what you're breathing.
What you're showering in.
Every aspect of your life from the minute you have boots on the ground there until you leave.
Every toxin that is in that area, you're exposed to.
And because of individual genetics, one person may not react or may not have a problem with one set of chemicals.
But when you're dealing with a toxic soup like this, and it's raining down from the sky, it's soaking into everything, eventually something is going to trigger something else.
Yeah, it makes me wonder, now that you talk about all that, it makes me wonder, like, for example, our shower trailers, right?
They have these big, huge reservoirs of water that get filled, I don't know, every three days or whatever, but where does that water come from?
It's not shipped in from Europe or from the States.
Is it coming from the water table in which Is probably contaminated with all the things in this burn pit.
I mean, where our base was, Chemical Ali's compound was there.
They flooded it, all the lower levels up to the door.
So I would imagine that soup leaked into the water table.
So was our water that we were showering in coming from the ground of Iraq?
It's possible, right?
It is possible.
I don't have the answers to that.
I cannot even begin to speculate exactly what was there and why it was there and all of that.
I just know logically, if you've got X and you've got Y, then you're going to end up with Z. Yeah.
So, I mean, it really makes me wonder about all this.
I don't know either.
And I'm sure that part of the answer is that there was some super filters that the water went through or something like that.
I'm sure that they did all that.
But I just, you know, I just wonder where that kind of...
Because you don't think about that when you're there, right?
Yeah.
All we cared about was getting some good sleep, going to the gym, calling home, and then going to the Pizza Hut on base and getting a pizza that would probably introduce diarrhea into our daily function.
But it was pizza and it wasn't defect food, right?
So we would go eat it anyway.
I understand.
That's, there's this misnomer going around that it's, you're just talking about burn pits.
We can do away with burn pits.
No, that's only part of the equation.
The bigger part is that it is a toxic exposure of all of it.
And it's different exposures at different times, depending upon what chemical is present at what time and when and how it's disposed of.
And if you heat up some chemicals and they're in the presence of another chemical, then you get a chemical reaction that creates a whole new chemical.
I'm not an expert, but I'm kind of a nerd.
I research a bunch of this stuff of, okay, so if I've got chemical A and I've got chemical B, and you heat it up to fire, not incinerator, but fire level, what is the chemical that's been created?
I'm that kind of nerd.
Well, but also think about this, right?
Like, if there is no burn pits, What do we do with all that stuff?
We just bury it in the ground?
That doesn't make it any better.
I mean, yeah, you don't have the fire to aerate the things in the ground, but it's still in the ground.
It's still going to contaminate.
The US taxpayers actually paid for incinerators for every military base.
I was hoping you'd get there.
Yes.
When you burn stuff at fire level, at just standard fire level, that aerates it.
If you incinerate it, there's nothing left to aerate.
Kills it all.
I'm sorry?
Kills it all, yeah?
Not necessarily kills it all, but it destroys the chemical bonding.
Yeah.
That can cause a lot of these problems.
Now, I'm not saying that is the answer to everything.
Certainly would have helped.
However, I know that I think, don't quote me on this, but I think it was either 2008 or 2010, the U.S. taxpayers paid for incinerators for every sob in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Don't quote me on this.
This is what I've been told.
I have not done the independent research on it yet.
Well, but it would make sense, right?
Because I believe that the government knew before the PACT Act was being discussed I think that the government knew that these burn pits were a problem.
And I would assume that they were meant to be a temporary solution to garbage and waste and all that other stuff with the idea that, well, yes, I mean, because...
Although it doesn't seem like it at times, there's some pretty smart people in our government.
And I would imagine that these environmentalists and all these other folks that really study this stuff were telling the government, hey, we can't just burn all this stuff and let it drape all over these soldiers and the locals also.
I would be interested to see what kind of problems the local population of these countries is having as well, because we had a lot of locals that came on to work on the base.
And so it makes sense to me that incinerators would have been a thing.
But all right, folks, we've reached it.
Our time has gone so fast, Tori.
We will be right back.
Don't go away.
Hey everyone, welcome back here.
Thanks for joining us again.
I'm here with Tori.
We're gonna close out the show here.
Tori, I'd like to use the last few minutes of the show.
We got about four minutes, three or four minutes left.
I would like for you just to be able to tell the folks whatever it is that you want them to take away from this.
So, floor is yours.
As an advocate, I have many, many, many different calls to action that I'm working on.
However, for this segment, I would like for anyone who is a veteran, no matter what era, no matter what the circumstances, one, screening is your friend.
Two, go find a VSO and have them file the paperwork.
Whether you receive a rating or not, you need documentation.
The only way that I was able to get any survivor benefits, the only way that Jay was able to get any treatment whatsoever was because we found documentation.
You need to get all of your medical records, Private, DOD, and VA. Keep copies of all of your medical records.
Then file a claim under the PACT Act.
If you have any form of toxic exposure, whether it's airborne, at any of the seaburn spectrum, Document it.
Find documentation.
Get stories from your buddies and record them, because when it comes down to it, if the VA comes back and says, well, you were never exposed, if you've got documentation, even if it's just a bunch of guys sitting around telling a story, that's considered evidentiary.
You get all of the stories.
Write everything down.
I know we've been taught for a long time, don't write anything down because then that's considered premeditated.
But in this case, go for it.
Please write everything down about where you were, what you were exposed to, what it smelled like, what it felt like, how it made you feel.
Did your scalp itch?
Did other parts itch?
Whatever it is, write it down.
Because it may not be useful right this minute, but in 10 years when you're going to the VA and saying something right, it might prove useful.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I think, Tori, that's a really good point because as soldiers, veterans, marine sailors, whatever, we carry this chip on our shoulder, right?
We're the peacemakers.
We're the soldiers.
We're the doers.
We're the fighters.
We fight the wars.
And it's this persona that we can't be touched.
And I think that a lot of people, a lot of veterans in their later years, think back about it and say...
Well, I don't think I'm as invincible as I thought I was or that they made us out to be.
And there's a lot of regret there because, folks, I'm telling you, even if you think that you might have been exposed, the worst they can tell you is no.
any kind of documentation or any kind of conversations or any kind of letters of support, any of that, please, please.
And it's not just about money.
It's not about getting a monthly check.
It's about getting the medical care in which you deserve for signing your name on the dotted line and serving your country and then being exposed to the things that we have been exposed And this call also goes out to anybody who's a supporter of veterans.
If it's your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, your neighbor, your best friend, whoever.
Encourage these folks to make a claim and at least go talk about it.
Because the last thing you want to do is be visiting these people during their last hours and last days.
And thinking that you could have done something more to help yourself or to help them.
And so at some point as veterans, we have to swallow that pride and that macho, and I hate to say it because I'm macho as hell, but at some point we have to swallow that and realize and acknowledge that we're probably going to need some help.
So please, please do that.
Tori, I want to thank you very much for joining us today.
I really appreciate it.
And we're going to have you back.
We've got a lot more to talk about.
Have a great night, everybody.
We will see you next week.
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