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April 8, 2026 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:38:29

Peaceful Parents Violent Child? CALL IN SHOW

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Raising Kids Peacefully 00:15:11
	So let me read you the message that I sent to you.
	First of all, thank you so much for taking our call.
	It's very, very much appreciated.
	I'm a long time listener for more than 10 years now, and I have been consuming your content quite a bit, I would say.
	So, the topic for this calling show is the title I put there is Raising Kids Peacefully in a Violent or at least Non Peaceful Environment.
	I have three kids.
	Starting from 10 months old all the way to six years.
	So I have a six year old, three and a half year old, and almost one year old now.
	All peacefully raised and homeschooled.
	My six year old is already reading at year nine level.
	And behaviorally, he's a very peaceful, understanding, and thoughtful, very nice boy.
	I work, my wife stays full time with the kids.
	As my son has grown out of toddlerhood, It is getting increasingly difficult to interact with other kids, even homeschooled kids.
	Going to parks and having fun is becoming very difficult as kids are not peaceful, and my son doesn't know how to interact with them as I'm not able to guide him properly.
	When kids are toddlers, mothers tend to pay attention to their kids and curb any violent tendencies, but around five years of age, moms give up and let loose.
	At best, they try to remote control parenting by saying useless phrases like settle sweetheart or he doesn't mean bad or just saying some words without actually doing anything.
	I request a call in show to get your precious input on the subject.
	And as I said to my message, I think it's a very important call.
	That's why I didn't make it a private one because I think it's very important to talk about the topic as a whole.
	I think my baby will be in the room because we cannot leave him by himself and he might do some wonderful baby noises.
	Yeah, that's fine.
	And you and your wife are here?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Is there any?
	Hi, good morning.
	Good morning.
	Nice to meet you.
	Is there more that you want to add?
	I'm happy to hear.
	Look, my wife can tell you more about practical stories and give you some more hands on examples, so to speak.
	But the two major things that I. Have in mind is how do I teach my son?
	I guess the two major questions I want to tackle is how do I guide my son to interact with other kids?
	I haven't, I was a terrible, I didn't get any guidance as a kid on the topic.
	So I had to kind of figure it out myself, then to do a very good job myself as a kid, I would say.
	And all of the assertiveness training that I have ever had is coming from your soul.
	So, I want to teach my son how to manage that, I guess.
	And also, I don't know, we're fairly active in trying to find groups and find people and find some friends, especially for my eldest son.
	We do have some freedom owners in the general vicinity, but they're way too far away to.
	They don't have kids on my son's age, they have younger kids.
	So that might not be a problem for my daughter, maybe.
	But still, the distance, it's not a driving distance that we can do regularly.
	And maybe when the kids are older, yes, maybe we can do that later on.
	But when you have a baby and all three of my babies don't like the car more than 15 minutes, like 15 minutes, 20 minutes is the best you can do.
	So, we have also the geographical limitations of how far away we can go for activities.
	And we're quite active in trying to find other people in new groups or something somewhere.
	My wife, for example, just literally after this very call, she goes to a new group.
	Okay, so sorry, maybe we could start just by giving me some examples of the kind of aggression that your son is behaving.
	It's not specifically that the aggression is targeted on him.
	Like when it comes to him, you will just see kids that will tell him, for example, don't go on the slide, don't come in, you cannot play with us.
	But usually what happens is that kids are just being aggressive in their behavior in general.
	Like they cannot play together.
	They, for example, They will just, my son would like to, he likes to, he likes to sit down, he likes to run, he likes to dig, he likes to do kid stuff, but he likes to focus on what he's doing, he likes creating stories around what he's doing, he likes to use his imagination.
	Usually, what happens is that the other kids are just running, screaming, fighting, being rough with each other.
	My son, he doesn't like being physical with other kids.
	He does not like fighting.
	He does not enjoy that.
	I'm sorry for denouncing you, but when I play with him, when I rough house with him, he loves it.
	It's not rough housing, it's full on fighting.
	Yeah, that's what I want to make it clear.
	It's a different thing.
	Many times, the other kids are like full on fighting.
	And there has been, when he was a little bit younger, there has been some, when I had him on the park, there had been some examples where kids were actively aggressing against him.
	And I can go through an example that I have in mind quickly.
	So, we're in a very big park in the area, and some kids kind of took control of one of the slides.
	And my son went to go and do the slide, and they grabbed him from the hands and their feet, and they didn't let him, they were moving him off to other kids.
	And he started screaming, and I ran there, and obviously, I took control of that situation.
	But there have been some times where direct physical violence has occurred from the other kids.
	Like what?
	Other examples?
	Oh, sorry.
	As I said, they grabbed him from.
	There were two kids.
	One kid grabbed him from the feet, the other one from the hand.
	They were physically removing him from the slide.
	Okay.
	Sorry, your wife was going to say something.
	Yes, yes.
	Oh, and I was going to say that other examples of aggression towards him would be his.
	We're going to two different playgroups.
	In one of the playgroups, he would.
	There is a boy specifically.
	Two boys.
	My son would sit down, play with his sister, with, I don't know, a castle or whatever they choose to play with.
	And I have to be very aware because the other boys will just come and like smack him out of the blue.
	Like they would come and scratch the baby's face the other day.
	And you have to be very aware because it's fast.
	It's fast and you don't know when it's going to happen.
	You cannot relax.
	Or they might push, especially my daughter, she might get pushed from another kid so they can get the toy from her.
	This kind of thing.
	Okay.
	And what is the main question that you would like me to try to answer?
	As I said earlier, there are two questions that I would like to get some support is how do I train my son?
	To handle these situations.
	And maybe, hopefully, if you have any ideas on how to get a friend for my son, who is a nice, peaceful person.
	Okay, so I think these are two different questions.
	Yes, that's fine.
	So, for your first question, how can you teach your son to handle the situation?
	What would it mean to handle the situation?
	What would you think of as handling it?
	Okay, so generally, what I'm saying to him is, and he's not aggressive at all, and what I'm saying to him is to never stop the fight.
	But if another kid pushes him or gives him an ouchie or something, then he can retaliate.
	I don't know if that's the best idea or if that's the right thing to say, but this is what I have told him.
	One of the things that he does now is he does a loud va and to scare the other kid away or something.
	I told him.
	Because I thought this is not physical, but might scare the other kid at least.
	So, handling it is.
	I don't want him to be in such an environment.
	So, we're removing him.
	We're trying a few different things.
	It's not like these playgroups or these things, we go there all the time, but we try different things and we see that they're not working, then we rotate out of them.
	But this is the general.
	I don't want to force him in that environment if that makes sense.
	But I don't want him to feel like a victim there and be bullied or something and not have the skills to defend himself.
	I don't know.
	I think you get the general idea.
	I think I do.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So tell me your own experiences with being bullied as children.
	Okay.
	So if they happened, sorry, I don't know, maybe they didn't, but if they happened.
	I did have a problem when I was in high school for a couple of years.
	But other than that, it wasn't, other than that, I didn't have a problem.
	I did have a problem for a couple of years, so 13 to 14.
	And what happened?
	I was bullied by another kid.
	Who had a bigger brother, he never actually, his bigger brother didn't ever threaten me or anything, but there was an implicit threat of his big brother, if that makes sense.
	And I was trying to avoid him for a couple of years.
	And did it just fade out or what happened?
	It did fade out.
	Okay.
	All right.
	It did fade out.
	I grew in size.
	He didn't grow as much in size.
	Probably that played the role.
	And we're just not in the school, it was fairly big, so there was no interaction, then fade out.
	And were you able to talk to your parents about this?
	Absolutely not.
	Why not?
	Because I knew they wouldn't care and they wouldn't do anything.
	Okay.
	Did you have any friends that you could talk to, or did you mostly carry that burden on your own?
	I did carry that burden.
	I did have a friend who already knew, and he was much stronger and he could help, but he didn't.
	And I didn't ever explicitly ask for his help.
	All right.
	And how big was the big brother?
	His big brother was fairly big.
	Like, he was like full on, he was a big guy.
	Yeah, it was never explicit, but it was the implicit thing there.
	Yeah, it messed with me.
	He was fairly crazy.
	You mess with me, you mess with my big brother, and he'll get you.
	It was implicit.
	It was never explicit because he didn't want to rely on his big brother, but it was.
	Implicit.
	You never said it, but you have to be careful.
	How did the conflict with the little brother start?
	It literally started out of nothing.
	Like, it literally started out of nothing.
	We're playing something like a ball or something, and there was some little bit of conflict with the ball that we were playing, soccer or whatever.
	And that's it.
	It was not a big thing or anything.
	Just started out of nothing, really.
	And how did you know it was going on for those couple of years?
	Because he was coming to, if we ever had an interaction, he was trying to bully me and say, I will do this, that, the other.
	He was trying to push me.
	To this kind of thing.
	Okay, got it.
	And in hindsight, or looking back, what could you have done or should you have done about that?
	That's a good question.
	That's a good question.
	If I had asked my friends for assistance, maybe that was something I could do.
	But technically, I don't know.
	Maybe I honestly don't know what else I could do.
	Because my parents wouldn't be of help.
	The teachers definitely wouldn't be of help.
	Me starting a fight and then getting my ass kicked off his brother wouldn't be a choice.
	So I tried to get it off by having some time, so to speak, and also try to be around people who were looking kind of strong, so to speak, if it was in his vicinity, so that this way he wouldn't challenge me, if that makes sense.
	I used a political way, so to speak.
	Well, but it made a couple of years of school kind of unpleasant, right?
	Oh, yeah, horrific.
	So, if you were your parents back then, what would you have done?
	I don't think it's a fair comparison because I was not obviously homeschooled, but my son is homeschooled.
	I was forced to be in that area, in that vicinity, that area.
	Now, if I was now, let's say, in my parents' position in a magical way, Then I would probably go to school, find the kid, and not be reasonable.
	Because in this school situation, the most reasonable parent loses.
	So I would try to make a big fuss, yell a lot, and behave in a crazy way so that I get my way and my kid is protected.
	Okay, so you go yell at the bullies, is that right?
When Teachers Fail to Protect 00:06:10
	At the school teachers.
	As well as the bullies.
	Okay.
	And so let's say that you, as your parent, would do that.
	You'd yell at the teachers and the bullies.
	And what do you think would happen from there?
	If I was unreasonable enough and looking crazy enough, probably peace would come.
	No, I get it.
	And then?
	And then that's it.
	Problem solved.
	Wait, the police come and the problem is solved?
	What do you mean?
	Not the police is coming.
	I would go to the police.
	Sorry, I misunderstood.
	You said you would yell and scream.
	And then I said, and what would happen?
	And you said, oh, peace would come.
	Sorry, I thought you said police would come.
	Oh, yeah, sorry, peace, peace, not police.
	Okay, how would peace come if you yelled at people?
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.
	What would the bullies.
	And their parents do after you humiliated them or the teachers?
	Usually, in this situation, the one who is most crazy wins because it's not like the teachers always will side with the most crazy one, the one who can create the most trouble.
	So, that's my thinking there.
	But that's not applicable to my situation with my kids now, that's more applicable to a public school situation.
	No, I'm aware that it's.
	Please, you don't have to tell me obvious things like there's a difference between public schooling and homeschooling.
	I understand that.
	I've been to public school, I've homeschooled, and I know the difference.
	But if bullies are humiliated, they want payback, right?
	I'm with you there, yes, but they want payback anyway.
	Well, I know, but it escalates, right?
	And so, how would the teachers protect you?
	I mean, would you threaten to sue the teachers?
	If as a parent, what would you say to the teachers?
	You protect my kid or what?
	Or I will bring the TV here and I will take you to.
	I know some high up government guy and he's going to fire you.
	I don't know, something like this.
	I will make up some things like this.
	So you'd lie.
	I'm not saying that's bad, but it would be a lie.
	Okay.
	So that would depend on the teachers believing you, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	But they have nothing to lose.
	It's a bluff.
	They either believe me or they don't.
	Right, right.
	So, how would the teachers protect you?
	Let's say they believed, like, let's say you as a parent come in, how would the teachers protect you, the child, after that?
	They probably will say, I would say something like if this kid bothers you ever again, you go to the teachers and the teachers will take corrective action against the other kid and keep you safe.
	Okay, and did this kid live in the neighborhood?
	Nah, he was living fairly far away from where I was living.
	Okay, so what the kid would probably do is wait until you were off school property and then just attack you there.
	Yeah, but it would be the same thing.
	It would be the same environment.
	No, that's why I said.
	It's an off school property.
	So the teachers don't have any authority.
	They would have, where I grew up, they would have some authority.
	But they wouldn't have direct legal responsibility because you're off school property.
	They might not have a legal responsibility, but that wouldn't matter.
	They will still be responsible, so to speak.
	Well, but okay, but they just do it so the teachers can't see it.
	I'm just trying to, like, it's tough to deal with bullying, right?
	And so I'm just trying to figure out your experience and what you've thought of as a solution for bullying before.
	And if you ask the teachers to protect your child, then the bullies will just wait until you're away from the teachers and off school property and then just.
	Attack or assault there?
	That's a possibility, absolutely.
	Okay, yeah, it's very tough.
	It's very tough to deal with bullying.
	Now, how you said you were, was it 12, 13, 14 when this was going on?
	13, 14.
	13, 14, okay.
	And did you do any sports?
	No.
	Why not?
	It wasn't highly approved of my parents to actually do any sports because I should be studying and not doing sports.
	Well, I mean, if there was a game of, I don't know, soccer or baseball or football or something, I mean, in the neighborhood, maybe you could just go and do that, right?
	I mean, you didn't necessarily have to pay for it.
	I was absolutely doing that during the times that I was able to do that.
	I was absolutely doing that.
	But it was fairly limited.
	Sorry, I thought you said you didn't do sports.
	I didn't organize sports.
	I was doing sports in the area with the other.
	Kids in the park or something, but not organized sports.
	Yeah, because one of the ways to protect children from bullying is to get the kids involved in sports.
	It tends to help.
	But okay, so that didn't particularly work.
	Were you a small child?
	Was that one of the issues?
	I would say the most average you can get.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And did you ever do any martial arts?
	No.
	And your parents wouldn't have done that because it would interfere with studying.
	Is that right?
	And we'll probably also look down upon because martial arts are for stupid people, according to my parents.
	Oh, so they were like snobs?
	Is that right?
	Like, oh, yeah, yeah.
	And what did they do for a living?
	My mother was a teacher, elementary school teacher, and my dad had his own shop.
	Shop?
	Doing what?
	Pharmacy.
	A pharmacy.
The Cowardly Parent's Choice 00:16:00
	Okay.
	He was a pharmacist or just owned a pharmacy?
	A pharmacist with a pharmacy.
	Okay.
	And did you have siblings?
	One eight year older brother.
	Well, gee, couldn't he have helped?
	Nah, he was in another city and he wouldn't care to help.
	And did your parents notice that your mood had changed when you were being bullied?
	They didn't care.
	That wasn't my question.
	No, they didn't.
	They didn't say, ah, what's happening?
	Are you okay?
	Or something like that.
	No.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, that's really why you were bullied, is because your parents didn't care.
	I agree with you.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So, your son is pretty peaceful.
	Intellectual, creative, talkative, and he goes to parks.
	How old are the boys who are aggressive?
	Anything above about five years old, the mom just stopped caring.
	And so it doesn't have a specific, it hasn't interacted like with 15 year olds because today all the kids are staying inside the home anyway and they play video games.
	So he hasn't had any 12 year olds at Attacking him or anything like that.
	It's usually around his age.
	Okay.
	So, for instance, the boys who were holding on to the slide, they grabbed him by the feet.
	Is that right?
	It was one girl and I think one boy.
	And they were how old, roughly?
	I would say around the, I think the girl was around six and the boy was around five.
	Okay.
	And your son was in the playground alone.
	Is that right?
	This playground is one of the biggest we have in the area.
	He was not.
	Exactly alone.
	I was.
	It is a slide that goes probably four or five meters high.
	And he was on top of the platform to go down that slide.
	And I was, let's say, three or four meters next to where the slide is landing.
	So, given the distance, it took me like 15 seconds to go all the way up, maybe 10, 15 seconds to go all the way up through the slide.
	If that makes sense, all the way up to the platform.
	And then what did you do when you got there?
	I just, as soon as I went there and the other kids saw me, I was probably, I heard his screaming and his crying, so I knew it was my son.
	And as soon as they saw me there, they let him go and they start saying that some kind of bullshit excuse.
	That they own the slide and something like this.
	I don't know what.
	Something like this, something silly.
	I don't remember exactly what they said.
	I didn't understand probably half what they said.
	Okay.
	And did you know who their parents were?
	No.
	Okay.
	Did you go.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Did you go and ask the parents whose children are these?
	No.
	Why not?
	I didn't.
	I'm not saying whether you should or shouldn't have, but that would be my first instinct.
	Doesn't mean it's right.
	Because if the kids are bullying, it didn't even cross my mind.
	But why not?
	I thought you said you go talk to the adults in the situation.
	Like when I was asking you, how would you deal with it if you were the parent?
	You'd say, I would go to the teachers and scream and rant or whatever.
	It would be crazy, I think you said.
	So why wouldn't you go and say, whose children?
	Your children are bullying.
	Please deal with them.
	Just to be clear, I said that that would be the best.
	To go and yell in the public school for me.
	Now, why didn't I do it here?
	I don't have a good answer to give you.
	It just didn't even cross my mind.
	Should I have done that?
	No, no, but hang on, hang on, hang on.
	So, you've been listening to me for how long?
	Over 10 years.
	Right.
	So, who is primarily responsible if a child who's young is a bully?
	Always the parent.
	The parents, right?
	So, you would go and talk to the parents, right?
	It makes sense.
	I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense, but I didn't think about it.
	Nonetheless.
	All right.
	Let's be more rigorous.
	So, why would you not think about it since it's the obvious thing to do and you've studied philosophy for 10 years and you know it's about the parents?
	Why would you not want to talk to the parents?
	Because I'm scared to talk to the parents.
	Right.
	So, you're scared to talk to the parents.
	And listen, if it's any consolation, I would be nervous about it too.
	I think I'd do it.
	And in fact, I have done it, but I would be nervous about it.
	It's not fun, right?
	Nobody wants to do it, but.
	So, your child, your son, saw you helpless in the face of potential bullying because he was being bullied by the children and you were frightened of being bullied by the adults.
	Correct.
	So, what do you need to do?
	Not be bullied by the parents.
	Well, you need to stand up to bullies.
	You can't ask your six year old to do what you're not going to do.
	I agree with you there.
	So, you need to see, he needs to see you saying, Who are your parents?
	And they say, We're not going to tell you.
	And then you walk around the park and you say, Who are these children?
	Who's these children?
	Parents, they were bullying my child.
	We need to talk about this, or something like that, right?
	And then your son would be like, Wow, this is how you stand up to bullies.
	But instead, and listen, I'm not saying this in a negative way.
	I understand it's a scary thing to do.
	But your son saw you not stand up to bullies.
	You're correct.
	Was your child prepared for possible bullying?
	In other words, did you say, listen, we're going to go to a park and you're raised quite differently from other children?
	And.
	At that stage, no.
	Sorry, how old?
	Now he's.
	Back then, he was just around five, I would say.
	Almost five, around five.
	Okay.
	So, but you need to prepare your children for the world, right?
	And if he's going to be in a situation where he might be bullied, he needs to know.
	Ahead of time, if children are mean to you, give a yell.
	Some children are rough.
	Some children will push, they will grab you.
	And here's what you need to do to prepare your child for bullying, because, as you know, bullying can happen, right?
	I agree with you.
	And that event specifically started these types of conversations with him.
	So, post that event.
	Yeah, so generally, you should do that.
	I mean, it's easy to say in hindsight, it's just in general, because you've got younger children.
	When children are in situations where they might be bullied, you need to tell them about bullying beforehand.
	You are correct.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Is there anything else I can help you with?
	So, do you think that how do I approach this conversation if we're to go in a little bit more detail?
	So, how do I approach the conversation?
	What do I say to him?
	No, no, first, no, hang on, sorry.
	First is what you do.
	If you want your child to stand up to bullies, what do you need to do first?
	That was exactly my second part of the question.
	How do I handle a conflict with other parents?
	When their kids are being aggressive.
	Okay, let me ask you a slightly different question before we get to that.
	And I'm sorry to be changing.
	Are there any other aggressive people in your life that you're scared of?
	No.
	Really?
	I don't know.
	That's great.
	So there's nobody in your life who's any kind of aggressive person that you're nervous around.
	If you exclude the government, yes.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, so your in laws are great and extended family is great.
	No, your parents are great.
	Good parents are not great, but they're on the other side of the world, so I don't have any interaction with them.
	Oh, they don't call or anything like that?
	They do call, I don't have much interaction with them.
	They might call a little bit later.
	Okay, so who will be talking about in particular?
	My wife's parents and my parents specifically.
	So, yeah.
	Wait, sorry.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	Your parents were bad parents, right?
	Oh, well, I just gave you the example of the bullying.
	I know.
	I'm just checking.
	Maybe this is one huge example of them being generally wonderful, but it sounds like your parents were bad parents.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	So have you had the conversation where you tell them, geez, you were kind of bad parents and I want to talk about it?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And how did that go?
	It didn't work out.
	Multiple conversations didn't work out.
	I'm not really.
	It's a very light touch of conversations that we might have once every month.
	I mean, we don't interact that much anymore.
	That's my point.
	So, tell me a little bit about what happened with these conversations.
	They started more than 10 years ago, I would say.
	And they accepted pretty much zero responsibility and they said they're perfect.
	And that IT tries several times, not just one and two and three times, probably in the dozens, didn't work.
	And that's a general gist of it.
	So, why did they stay in your life?
	I wouldn't say they're in my life, but yeah.
	No, hang on.
	They're in your life.
	You have a relationship with them.
	I get it's distant, but they still, you talk on the phone, you have interactions, and they're in your life.
	I mean, I'm not saying they're in your face, but they're in your life.
	And I guess I'm asking why.
	If they deny all of your suffering, call you a liar, Gaslight you, continue to abuse you by not taking any responsibility, thus saying that all of your childhood unhappiness was based upon your badness.
	Why would you continue a relationship with them?
	And there may be good reasons, I'm just not sure I see them.
	Oh, look, I'm with you there.
	I shouldn't.
	You're right on that spot.
	Yes, but why do you?
	But why do you?
	I don't have a good answer.
	I don't have a good answer to give you.
	Give me a bad answer.
	Uh.
	Keeping the peace, I guess?
	It's a bad answer?
	No, you can keep the peace pretty easily by not having people in your life.
	Then they don't bother you at all.
	So it's not that.
	What else?
	As I said, it's a bad answer.
	Yeah, I know.
	So give me a less bad answer, but not a good one.
	I don't have a good answer.
	I understand.
	Would you like the answer?
	You can give me the answer.
	Yeah, you're scared of them.
	You're scared of them being upset with you.
	You're scared of them being angry with you.
	You're scared of the confrontation.
	You're scared of having that boundary.
	You're scared.
	That's a fair point.
	And I'm not blaming you for that.
	I mean, it's nerve wracking to do it.
	So I'm not, it's not cowardly.
	I just, I mean, why can't you just say that?
	Okay, it's true.
	It's true.
	I did say that in a side way.
	I said keeping the peace, which is implicitly saying that.
	Okay, don't make me work that hard to understand what you're saying.
	Don't speak it clear.
	You're correct.
	You're correct.
	Okay.
	You're correct.
	So they treated you terribly as a child, they treated you terribly as an adult.
	And what do you think would happen if you said, Hey, I'm not really enjoying the relationship.
	You don't really listen to me.
	You're not good parents.
	So I'm going to take a break from the relationship.
	Don't contact me.
	Whatever you were to say, or however you were to do it, what do you think would happen?
	Nothing.
	If I just block them from everywhere, they cannot really do anything.
	Well, then what are you scared of?
	Sorry.
	Then it's.
	Kind of cowardly, right?
	Because if, then I don't understand why you're keeping the peace if there's no disturbance to not keeping the peace.
	I don't have a good answer on that.
	Okay.
	You keep saying that.
	We keep going through this round and round.
	I need an answer.
	We don't act randomly, right?
	It is, I mean, you said it is cowardly, and I agree with you there.
	It is cowardly.
	There's nothing to.
	No, I didn't say it was cowardly.
	I said.
	If there's no negative things that happen, if you stop talking to your parents, then being afraid of that would be cowardly.
	I don't believe that's true.
	So you must think there's something negative that would happen.
	I see.
	I see.
	Must be something that is negative that will happen.
	All right.
	Let me turn to your wife.
	Is she still here?
	Yeah.
	Hello.
	Sorry, I haven't forgotten about you.
	So, what do you think of your husband's parents?
	I do not like them and they do not really like me.
	We might, like, if he's on the call with them, I will just say hi and usually speak for less than five minutes and then that's it.
	I don't like them.
	They don't like me.
	I don't think they.
	I don't think I've ever.
	I didn't.
	I don't think I've spoken to them this year.
	I don't think I've spoken to them since.
	Since Christmas, though.
	Yeah, maybe we speak to them once every six months, a year.
	Okay.
	So, when your husband is speaking to his parents, is he happy or unhappy?
	There are times that I don't understand if he was speaking to his parents because he will do it, for example, on his way home from somewhere, from work.
	So I will not know unless like he tells me.
	And there are times that he is not happy after a call when, and there are times that he does not really want to call them.
	But he does.
	There have been times like that.
	Are there people in the world who have done more harm to your husband than his parents?
	I don't think so.
	Okay.
	So, I don't know if you've listened to me or if you're.
	No, yes.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	I guess the answer to that would be I don't think so because whatever has happened to him, like the fire and.
	Would they had responsibility, right?
	That's why I say I don't think so.
	So, have you ever said to your husband, I don't like your parents because they have done the most harm to you, and I love you, and I can't love you and love the people who've done the most harm to you?
	I would rather not have them in our lives.
	The last part, no, I have not.
	I, in conversations, I have said, I have a Yeah, I have said that I do not like them.
Hope vs. Reality with In-Laws 00:03:24
	I have said, I'm sorry you grew up like this.
	I'm sorry you have been treated this way.
	That the way he was raised has been neglectful.
	I have told him that I don't.
	That I have noticed how sometimes he doesn't want to call them, but he calls them.
	Or he calls them and then he's sad, but not the last part.
	I don't want them in our life.
	Well, I have not said that.
	Are you guys in your 30s or 40s or 30s?
	30s, okay.
	So I assume the parents are in their 50s or 60s, is that right?
	60s, I think.
	60s?
	His parents are a bit older, so yeah, 60s.
	Okay, so what happens to people and their health in their 60s and 70s and 80s?
	Deteriorates.
	Yes.
	I'm with you.
	And I have made it very clear that I'm not going to take care of them.
	Okay.
	So if they show up at your doorstep, what are you going to do?
	They're not going to show in my doorsteps.
	You seem very confident.
	I'm very confident because they cannot stay in the country I'm currently living legally.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	All right.
	I mean, they could probably stay for a little while.
	A couple of months, probably.
	As visitors, they could come, but they have never come because they know that they're not invited.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So there's some because sometimes when people have a distant relationship from their parents and their parents get old and ill, It changes, right?
	For many people, it does change, and I agree with you that it does happen as a whole, but it's not something that I'm going to do.
	And I have made it very clear to both in laws that I'm not going to be the one to take care of them.
	And I told them explicitly many, many years ago I'm telling you to buy Bitcoin, you're not buying Bitcoin.
	If you don't have money in your old age, that's your problem.
	I told you to buy Bitcoin a thousand times.
	And you're not listening to my good advice.
	It's none of my business if you can or you cannot support yourselves when you're older.
	Okay.
	So you talk to them once or twice a year, right?
	My wife talks to them once, twice a year.
	I would say probably I talk to them six times a year.
	Yeah, once every two months or so.
	So they can't stay with you.
	You're not going to take care of them.
	You don't care about, oh, you wouldn't help them out financially because of the Bitcoin thing.
	What is the point of staying in touch?
	Just help me understand that.
	I think up until relatively recently, I had this hope.
	I would say up until five months ago, I would have a hope.
	Maybe three months ago, I would have a hope that something might come to their senses, which is a silly hope.
	I'm with you there, but I did have a hope.
	I don't have a hope anymore.
	Consistently for several months, I have no hope.
	And that's why I haven't talked to them in a few months now, I think.
	Sorry, but I don't remember exactly when.
	I don't remember exactly when.
Letting Go of the Silly Hope 00:09:45
	What changed?
	I think what changed is the difference between my parenting and their parenting to me has become such a massive difference and such a strong emotion.
	The past couple of years now, I think you have said that in one of your passing by at some point, that when you are raising your kids in a peaceful and nice way, then the emotions between the difference of how you were parented and how you are parenting are hitting you.
	On your court.
	And I would say for several years now, every couple of weeks, I will see my kids and I will start crying out of joy and out of happiness of how well they're being raised and what a beautiful life they have.
	I genuinely cry very regularly.
	It's like I'm on my period every couple of weeks.
	I will see them, I will give them a hug at night.
	Many nights they sleep.
	With my hugs, and I see how well they're being raised and how nice life they have, and how it contrasts with the way my parents raised me.
	They didn't even raise me for the first three and a half years, they just threw me in my grandma.
	Like for three and a half years, I was not even with them.
	So, the differences are staggering, if that makes sense.
	And that has, I did have a conversation on that topic a few months ago with them.
	And I think since then, I lost every hope, if that makes sense.
	Okay.
	And they still denied that they did anything wrong, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	So, your son, who has your son seen you?
	Get really angry with who has my son seen me get really angry with?
	Um, I have been one time angry with him when he was playing with his sister and he pushed his sister as a game, he was much younger back then.
	No, I mean outside of him.
	Outside of him, um, do you think Maria has ever seen me angry with him?
	I don't think so.
	Has he?
	Maybe with the kids when that event happened, for example, with these kids, I was angry.
	And no, doesn't count.
	Okay, what adults, sorry, what adults?
	Zero.
	Zero.
	Because you're talking about your childhood and being bullied, and you have no anger, no emotion.
	You're talking about like you're reading a shopping list eggs, milk, bread, butter, no feeling.
	When is the last time you felt really angry towards an adult?
	Last time I was really angry against an adult and express it.
	Or keep it inside me?
	Well, both.
	I was yesterday angry with two guys at work who couldn't understand what I was talking about, but I didn't express it.
	But expressing it, I can't remember again.
	So you got angry at some guys at work who didn't understand something.
	What else?
	Even if you didn't express it.
	My wife said that I was angry, not directly to them, but some friends I am angry with.
	I have some friends here.
	I met them when my son was like under a year old and during the COVID lockdown thing.
	So I met them.
	They were nice people.
	They had a boy just around my son's age.
	I gave them lots of ideas about peaceful parenting, homeschooling, and all of the good stuff.
	They end up adopting homeschooling at least.
	On paper, that they're doing homeschooling.
	And they didn't fully go through with peaceful parenting, but I'm getting very upset with them because even though they had, I'm getting genuinely angry with them because they had lots of potential to do nice homeschooling and have my son being a good friend with their kid and do peaceful parenting and all of the beautiful things in life.
	But they are deciding to pretty much tend to.
	Replicating the parenting they received from their parents.
	And the relationship is pretty much breaking down these days because their son is not, they don't do a good parenting as a whole.
	And I'm genuinely very upset with them.
	Okay, so I'm genuinely very upset with them.
	You're angry, and have you expressed any anger towards them?
	Have I expressed any anger towards them?
	I have talked to them about the topic several times and about the peaceful parenting thing and about the homeschooling.
	The homeschooling is built on paper, but because they are not actively.
	Okay, have you expressed any anger towards them?
	Now you're making me annoyed.
	I just want a yes or no.
	I mean, oh, I've talked to them, blah, blah, blah.
	Have you said I'm angry?
	I haven't.
	I wouldn't say anger, no.
	I wouldn't say anger.
	So, has your son ever seen you express anger towards an adult?
	No.
	I don't think so, no.
	Okay.
	Do you have a problem expressing anger, do you think?
	Absolutely, yes.
	I can express my anger privately with my wife about things, but not publicly.
	Why not?
	Because I'm scared.
	I'm definitely scared of doing that.
	Okay, I understand that.
	And why do you think you're so scared?
	Because, I mean, we're all scared of expressing anger, whatever, but sometimes we need to, right?
	Yes, just like two minutes ago when you expressed your anger with me not answering the question.
	I honestly don't have a good answer on this one.
	And I know I said you've got to stop saying that.
	It's just wasting time.
	I am scared of expressing my anger.
	I don't know how to do it.
	I have no clue how to express my anger.
	That's the wrong truth.
	I don't know how to express my anger.
	Let me turn to your wife.
	What do you see with your husband and anger?
	I would honestly say that he does not really get angry.
	Like, if he is upset with someone, I would not say that it turns into anger.
	It would, like, he would be frustrated.
	He would, but he's not, I don't think that he's angry.
	I don't think he's angry.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Are you saying that your husband does not experience the emotion of anger?
	He does not express.
	I don't know if he, I cannot say.
	I don't know if he experiences it and he does not talk about it, but his behavior is never that of someone who's angry.
	And what about you?
	Do you experience or express anger?
	No.
	Ah, and why do you think you don't express or experience anger?
	I could never express anger.
	I would.
	Look, I don't.
	Know what the answer is, but if I had to guess the answer, I would say that not getting angry is protecting something or someone in my life.
	That's my guess.
	But I don't know exactly what.
	Okay.
	Sorry, when you were raised as a child, how was anger handled in your house?
	It was shut down because my mom could be angry, I could not.
	Okay.
	So, if you were angry, what did you fear your mother would do?
	I think that it has to do with love.
	I think it has to do with love because I was not scared that physically, I was not scared that this is going to hit me or anything.
	But I feel like I was just trying to please my mom so bad.
	That I felt that if I get angry with anything and she's not happy with me, I'm not getting lost.
	I'm not, I'm not, yeah.
	Yeah.
	So it's like a strong pair bond can handle anger.
	Yeah.
	But if you don't have a strong bond, you say, well, if I get angry, my mother or father, they're not going to like me.
	Yes.
	In other words, they don't like me, they like me being compliant and not upset with them.
	Yeah.
	Because if you love someone, you want the whole person.
	That comes with anger, right?
	And so if you say, well, I like someone, but not if they're upset with me, then you like their compliance or their agreement, not them as a person, if that makes sense.
	Yeah.
Why Avoiding Anger Hurts Bonds 00:08:16
	So I actually had.
	Sorry.
	No, no, go ahead.
	Sorry.
	I actually just recently, like just a week ago, two weeks ago, I don't even remember what happened, but something happened and I was just so very upset.
	And then I was thinking about what makes someone worthy of love.
	And I did not think about this part.
	Well, I mean, generally, love is what we feel when we admire someone's virtues.
	Yeah.
	And is it possible to be virtuous or good?
	Without feeling or expressing anger?
	No.
	I don't think so.
	No, can you?
	No.
	Because anger tells us that our interests are being harmed.
	And if our interests are good interests, then we feel angry.
	So, I'll put forward a little speech here and then you can tell me if it makes any sense or not.
	So, the speech is this.
	Well, let me ask you a question to make sure I understood.
	So, when your son had his feet grabbed on the slide, I remember you saying that he screamed and he cried.
	Yeah.
	Correct.
	Right.
	What should he have done if he had full expression and full access to all of his emotions?
	That's a wonderful question because up until This very moment, I thought that you did the right thing.
	Well, I don't know what the right thing is.
	I'm not trying to talk morally.
	I'm talking honestly.
	If somebody grabbed your feet, if somebody grabbed my feet, I'd say, hey, let go.
	Don't grab me.
	That's right.
	I'm not sure I don't.
	Does that make sense?
	I don't know that I would cry.
	And I think it's because he has not seen healthy anger in his parents.
	If you best want to protect your children from bullying, Tell them and show them how healthy anger is.
	And they grabbed him because they knew he would cry and you would not confront the parents.
	That's why he got bullied.
	I'm not blaming you, obviously, I'm just telling you the cause.
	Something in his body language and something in your body language told those children they could grab his feet and they wouldn't get in any trouble.
	And he would not be angry and defend himself.
	You're right there, my friend.
	And this is the price of not confronting bad people our children don't know how to protect themselves.
	What I have told him since then, I might be repeating myself a little bit here.
	You know that I'm not, what you tell him doesn't matter.
	What you've shown him matters.
	He's only a kid, which means he needs to see it.
	There's no point explaining it to him.
	He needs to see healthy anger in action.
	Thank you for correcting me.
	Because giving him a lecture when you've done the opposite won't help him.
	It'd be like saying to your kids, You need to stand up for what you like and prefer.
	And then you're at a restaurant, you're giving them this lecture.
	And then the waitress brings you the wrong food and it's cold and you just eat it and don't say anything.
	And they know it's the wrong food and it's cold and you say, Well, you know, you got to stand up for what you need and you've got to be assertive.
	And then you get the wrong food and you just shut up and eat it.
	That's going to be really confusing, right?
	I mean, that the children are empirical.
	They don't care what you say.
	They only care what you do.
	And that's why I asked if you've been angry.
	Have they seen it?
	Yeah, we haven't been angry and they have not seen it.
	So for you, anger is bad.
	And that means you get bullied.
	You get bullied by your own fear of anger.
	And as a result, that's more correct.
	I'm sorry?
	That's more correct.
	I'm being bullied by my own fear of anger.
	That's the most correct.
	Yes.
	Because I don't, if we speak theoretically, like academically speaking, philosophically speaking, I do not think that anger is a bad feeling.
	I think it's a positive feeling, but I never express it.
	Well, you experience it, but you don't express it.
	Correct.
	Right.
	And listen, guys, I totally sympathize with this.
	I, I'm not always on the healthy side of anger.
	Sometimes it's too much, sometimes it's too little.
	So, you know, we're all trying to find that balance.
	So I say this with great humility.
	And this comes about because your parents liked you when you were convenient.
	You know, everybody loves the kid who comes in, gives a big hug, smiles, does a little tap dance, sings a song.
	It's pleasing, fun, pleasant.
	You can show them off.
	It's a little tougher to love a child who comes in and says, Dad, you really upset me today.
	I really don't like something you did.
	It really bothered me.
	And I don't imagine that your parents, I mean, we know talking to you, the father, your parents wouldn't accept any of your anger.
	They just lied and told you you were wrong and bad for even bringing it up, right?
	They didn't explicitly tell them wrong and bad, but they kind of, yeah, they implicitly did.
	Because they're saying you are accusing us of bad behavior and you're wrong.
	You are falsely accusing us of really, really bad behavior, right?
	Yes.
	Now, if you falsely accuse someone of bad behavior, you're bad and wrong.
	Correct.
	If I say so and so is a rapist and they're not, that's really bad, right?
	Yes.
	And what I want to mention is in the past, I don't know, six months now, my son will say, will come to me and say, you know, dad, you did this, I didn't like it.
	And he is expressing his anger.
	And I found that fascinating.
	It is very cool what he's doing.
	He will come and he will use his stern voice and say, Daddy, you promised you are going to do this.
	Why didn't you do it?
	Okay, good.
	So he's trying to teach you something now.
	He's teaching me something.
	He's trying to.
	Daddy, why don't you get angry?
	I mean, the government, fiat currency, national debt, you know, all the bad things going on in the world.
	You don't think you've got reason to be angry?
	I am with all of these things.
	Right.
	So, why don't you ever express anger?
	Because if you don't express it, you're saying to your children, anger is bad and dangerous and wrong.
	Because they look to you as the gold standard of what they should do.
	And if you never express anger, then anger must be somehow a crime.
	I mean, you never steal, right?
	You don't beat people up in front of them or at all, right?
	So, if you never get angry, they will view anger as a kind of crime that they should never do.
	At least I'm happy that I didn't stop him from that.
	Thank you for pointing me back to the principles and pointing me back to my anger.
	I think that's where I'm lacking the most.
	Well, it's where you were the most punished if you got angry.
	True.
	True.
	So it's just like post traumatic stress disorder with regards to getting angry.
	So if you're going to homeschool your children, and good for you, I'm obviously a big fan, then.
	They're going to need to go out into the world knowing that there are bad people in the world that it's healthy to get angry at.
Language Barriers and Grandparents 00:13:51
	Have they ever asked about their grandparents?
	Have they?
	I don't think they really understand the concept, to be honest.
	They do, but I get that I had parents.
	They do talk a little bit.
	Look, I have made the promise.
	I have made the promise to never lie to them, never ever lie to them.
	I might not say everything, but I will never ever actually lie.
	So I have told them that I didn't have a positive experience with my parents and they have good parents.
	As my older son can understand, I think my daughter doesn't.
	My older son, the past several months now, he likes conversations increasingly, like exponentially, he likes having conversations.
	And almost every couple of nights, I spent an hour talking with him, just talking, nothing else.
	So he has asked me about how my childhood was and what games I liked when I was a kid and what I was doing as a kid.
	So I have touched on the topic that I didn't have good parents and a good experience in some aspects of my childhood.
	Okay.
	But they don't explicitly ask, oh, who is my grandpa?
	Who is my grandma?
	Okay.
	And what about your wife's parents?
	What's the relationship they're like?
	They also live far, far, far away.
	What's that specific question?
	What is the relationship with them like?
	They don't really.
	They might say good morning or hi, how are you when we see them?
	Happy birthday, if it's someone's birthday.
	When we see them virtually, just want to.
	Yeah, yeah, not face to face.
	But they don't have any relationship with them.
	Like they know that these people are my parents, but I don't think they understand that they have a relationship with them.
	Sorry, but what is your relationship with them?
	We speak about once a week or two weeks.
	Once a week, yeah, for 20, 30 minutes, and that's it.
	Okay, that doesn't tell me what your relationship is.
	Where they live and how often you talk doesn't tell me about the relationship.
	Is it good, bad, middling?
	I'm having a hard time.
	That's a simple question, but I'm having a hard time because I speak to them, but I don't feel like I have a strong relationship to them.
	Okay.
	Do you enjoy speaking with them?
	Yes and no.
	When we're speaking and we're talking about random stuff, like I saw this person that you went to school with and they said hi, and I tell them, like, oh, we did this with the kids and it was nice.
	I'm fine with that.
	A small talk, right?
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	Small talk.
	But if it's.
	If they try to give me advice, I don't like that.
	I don't feel comfortable with that.
	Okay.
	So, as long as the relationship isn't about anything important, it's okay.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And do they have a relationship with your children?
	Not really.
	It's the same.
	Like they will say, not even small talk because they don't speak the same language.
	So.
	Your parents don't speak the same language as your children.
	Are they learning the language at all?
	No, my parents, they do not, they might know a few words in English, but not enough to hold a conversation.
	Well, I mean, they could learn, hang on, they could learn with your children.
	They could follow the same Bob books or whatever you're doing because children don't need a lot of complex conversation when they're young.
	They could learn how to pronounce English.
	They could read stories.
	I mean, they could make an effort, right?
	They could.
	When we visited last year, so they've only met them last year, 2014.
	That's the only time that they met them face to face.
	I guess, not I guess, I think the communication between them was easier because even though they didn't speak the same language, they could still play together.
	But when they are on the phone and there's a camera and there's no toy, there's no something that they can do together.
	Mm hmm.
	They don't.
	They cannot.
	Like, they will say, Hi, how are you?
	Or my son will say, Look, I made this drawing, and they will say, Oh, like, very pretty.
	But that's as far as it goes.
	Okay.
	Now, your children, you have two, is that right?
	Three?
	Three.
	Okay.
	So, your children are the most important things in your life, right?
	And I mean, other than each other, of course, right?
	So, you love your children.
	You think all the time about your children.
	You wake up because of your children and you go to bed after your children, and what is best for your children is the most important thing in your life.
	Is that kind of how it is?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Your parents can't even be bothered to learn some English phrases or some English words to communicate with your children.
	That's true.
	So your parents don't care much about your children.
	Are they retired or are they still working?
	My dad's still working.
	My mom.
	She's retired.
	My mom.
	I don't know, the past few months is.
	Babysitting full time, but that's it.
	Okay, so they have time.
	Your mother has time to learn some English.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, what does it mean to you that your children are everything to you and almost nothing to your parents?
	On the one side, I find that sad, but on the other side, I find that good because I don't want my children.
	There is this fear that my children will see.
	What it was like, and I don't want them to.
	So if there's a gap in communication, I feel like it protects them, which doesn't really make sense when you say that out loud.
	I mean, I'll just tell you from my experience, and this doesn't mean I'm right, but from my experience, I absolutely fascinated by, love my daughter, and my friends who were not interested in my daughter particularly.
	They weren't my friends for very long.
	I'm not saying they have to be as interested in my daughter as I am.
	Yeah.
	But if they're not interested in my daughter, sorry, we don't have much in common.
	And I didn't want to have people around my daughter who weren't that interested in her because that would make her feel unimportant.
	How does it affect your children that their grandparents don't seem to care about them and that you?
	Are maintaining a relationship with people who treat your children badly.
	Does it upset you that your parents can't be bothered to learn a little bit of English to communicate with their grandchildren?
	No, I never thought about this because they will ask me how the kids are.
	They will ask me.
	But that's not.
	It's your children's experience that matters, not yours.
	Yes, but if my kids don't have.
	A relationship with them, like if they don't even remember them and if they just say good morning.
	Okay, so your children see you talking to someone once a week or once every two weeks, and you pretend it's Santa Claus, or they say, No, I'm talking to my mother, talking to my father, or something like that, right?
	I use their first names, but yeah.
	Okay.
	So they know that their grandparents are calling you and showing no interest to them.
	They're not saying, I'm dying to spend 20 minutes talking to your children or to read them a story or maybe we can watch a cartoon together or something.
	And your children are like, well, my mother's parents have no interest in me really at all.
	What does that do to your children?
	I mean, my grandmother and grandfather clearly care about children because they're talking to mom, who's their child.
	They just don't care about us.
	Why would you want people around your children who don't care about your children?
	I never thought about it this way.
	Well, that's because you guys don't have access to your anger.
	Sorry to be annoying, but it's, it angers me.
	It angered me when people would come over who I'd known for a long time.
	I was absolutely thrilled and fascinated to be a father.
	And they would come over, they'd say hi to my daughter, and then they'd sit down and just want to chat with me.
	And I'd be like, nope, that's not happening.
	You don't get to just step over my daughter to talk to me.
	She matters, she's important.
	You don't just get to ignore her.
	That's selfish and it's cruel.
	That's what I mean by anger.
	It's rude and mean for your parents to show no interest in your children, and it's bad for your children.
	Because what they see is they see their parents not care that someone is rude to their children.
	Children need to be part of everything.
	This is something that when my daughter was younger, it's different now.
	She's like 17.
	When my daughter was younger, she'd sit with adults and we had a lot of conversations about this because people would just talk over her.
	Why?
	Because she's just a kid.
	And what would I have to say?
	Don't talk over her?
	Yeah.
	Guys, that's rude.
	She's got something to say.
	Hang on.
	Slow down.
	Is he had something to say?
	I'd have to constantly because people just are used to ignoring children.
	That's very true.
	I mean, you see this, I'm sure, all the time.
	You put the kids at a children's table and ignore them, right?
	A lot of people do that.
	Not you, right?
	But a lot of people.
	Well, we're not doing that, but I remember myself when I was a kid, I had some pretty good things to add up, and I was being pushed aside.
	Right.
	So we have to treat children as full human beings, right?
	That's right.
	Now, imagine if you took your wife out to see your parents for some reason, and your parents refused to talk to your wife the whole evening.
	They didn't even acknowledge her.
	Even if she'd asked them to pass the butter, they would just ignore her.
	How would you feel?
	If I liked my parents, I would feel bad.
	Bad.
	Bad.
	I guess I should be angry.
	How would you feel?
	Angry.
	There you go.
	Thank you, my lord.
	I would be so angry.
	You'd be angry.
	That's kind of rude.
	What are you ignoring my wife for?
	She's the love of my life.
	Don't ignore her.
	What's the matter?
	What are you doing?
	This is crazy.
	This is no good, right?
	You'd be angry, right?
	I should be very angry.
	Truth is, we wouldn't be, though.
	That's the sad truth that we wouldn't be angry.
	Well, but I mean, but I'm pointing it out, right?
	That this is what you need to do to protect your children.
	Against a harsh world, you need to treat the world as harsh and you need to have the capacity to get angry.
	I mean, I think I demonstrate this at least once a live stream.
	When I get someone who's annoying, what do I say?
	You're annoying.
	You're not annoying.
	Yeah.
	You never play with me.
	And I say, I always say the same.
	Yeah.
	And I'm just like, listen, I'm not saying that just because I'm annoyed, that means you're annoying, but I am annoyed.
	Right.
	And there's nothing wrong with that.
	And people can get annoyed with me.
	And that can be very helpful too.
	People can get angry with me.
	That can also be very helpful too.
	You know, when you have your kids, they become teenagers, they will get angry at you.
	And that can be very helpful.
	So you have people who are ignoring your children.
	I mean, maybe they do.
	I mean, do they send them birthday presents and Christmas presents and name day presents or whatever?
	They do.
	They do.
	Look, I have.
	Speak, we usually, like, I have to be there and I'm usually, like, just translating.
	My kids will say something and I will explain to my parents, and then my parents will say something and I will just explain to my kids.
	But they cannot have a.
	Conversation together without me being there.
	Well, okay, so let's say that your children, when they get older, have babies and they don't speak your language.
	Would you not learn some of that language so that you could have a relationship as grandparents?
What Silence Communicates to Kids 00:06:39
	I would.
	Of course, you would.
	So your children see that your loyalties are with your parents and against them.
	That people can be rude to your children and you're happy to have them in your life.
	That is going to bite you when they become teenagers because you are putting your loyalty outside the immediate family.
	And when your children become teenagers, they will put their loyalty based upon your model to some degree outside the family.
	And that means peer pressure.
	And that means that the worst people will be in charge of their decision making.
	I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
	You don't want that.
	All right.
	That's why we're doing the homeschooling thing.
	Well, sure, but it's not like there aren't still going to be peer pressures out there in the world.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	I get that we can improve on the topic.
	I'm not saying we cannot improve on the topic, but what I mean is we understand that this is very important.
	That's why we're taking action that way.
	Right.
	Now, sorry, how long have you listened to me again?
	10 years?
	Over 10.
	Over 10.
	Okay.
	So you've heard me talk about.
	The health and value of anger, right?
	Oh, yes.
	Okay.
	And what have you thought about what I've said?
	Do you disagree?
	It's obviously fine.
	It's not like I'm some sort of oracle.
	You could totally disagree and you could be well right, but I'm just curious what you thought of what I've said.
	Generally, probably from the thousands of topics you have touched, I disagree with five, but this is not one of them.
	Better than me, yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So you agree with the health.
	I do admire, I would say that I admire your.
	Your anger and stuff.
	I do admire that assertiveness.
	And it's something I have said to my wife several times the past few years, I would say, that I do want to work towards being more assertive.
	So I do admire that particular value and virtue.
	I do admire it.
	Yeah, because some people say, like, well, why do you entertain these listeners who sometimes are not particularly interesting or can be kind of annoying?
	It's like, because we all need help in.
	Seeing what healthy anger looks like.
	I need it and I have to remember.
	So I try to be patient.
	And then if people are really just kind of obnoxious, then I'll kind of let them have it and all of that.
	And they're welcome to let me have it too, as some people do.
	So, uh, that's, I think, where philosophy can do you the most good is in the topic of anger.
	Because your children are going to go out into a world, as you know, that is full of bullies, right?
	I mean, I remember being at a, um, a restaurant and there was a waiter there who knew something about me and he was very woke and he was, uh, very, uh, quite hostile towards me.
	And I engaged him in a pretty challenging conversation with my, Daughter, and it happened to be my wife right there.
	And, you know, it was interesting, and we had a good old conversation about it afterwards.
	And I actually preferred that that person would be upset with me and would be honest about being upset with me.
	Because, you know, that way it doesn't come out as passive aggressive, if that makes sense.
	It does make sense.
	It does make sense.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	It might be off topic, but it is, I think it's still on topic.
	It might sound off topic, but especially these days, the kids are not being parented.
	They're being raised by a tablet.
	Yeah.
	They're being raised, I don't know if you have seen that, but this is a recent trend where kids are being raised by AI robots.
	Yeah.
	Do a Google search if you want to put ChatGPT on.
	On teddies, and then the teddies are raising the kids.
	Right.
	So it is becoming increasingly important to have anger, I guess, because all of these kids will not know how to interact with you.
	Well, and there's, sorry, I was talking about such a dark topic, but children are also having extremely early access to pornography, right?
	Which means that there's a lot of creepy stuff that's going on.
	That parents, of course, need to be aware of and can be very tricky for your children to navigate, right?
	As young as eight these days?
	Yeah.
	Eight, even seven?
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	So, yeah, there's a lot of creepy stuff that's going on.
	And so, yeah, so anger is healthy and important and necessary, and I would argue is even more important for children now.
	Because, well, because of all sorts of reasons we've sort of talked about.
	So I think that you need to figure out why anger is very tough.
	And you have to be aware, I think, of what your avoidance of anger communicates to your children about the value of anger, if that makes sense.
	And if you are avoiding anger to the point where your children think it's somehow toxic or, Bad or something like that, then you're kind of sending them out as lambs into the wolves, right?
	That's exactly what I do not want to do.
	Right.
	And that's why I think it's good that we have this conversation so that you can begin to work on anger and have your children understand how healthy and helpful anger is.
	And right now, it seems to me that your parents are running the relationship at the expense.
	Of your children, because your parents are being rude to your children by not engaging with them and being polite and respectful towards them.
	And you are letting that happen, right?
	You are saying, oh, that's fine.
	And I don't think that's, I don't think that communicates the right thing to your children because your loyalty, as you know, should always be with each other first and your children second and everybody else is distant third.
	If anyone is rude to your children, it doesn't matter to me if it's the Pope himself, right?
Teach Your Parents Some English 00:05:52
	If anyone is rude to your children or treats them in a disrespectful manner or ignores them, then it's time for a stern talk with those people.
	It's time to talk to your wife's parents and say, why don't you learn some English?
	Oh, we're too old, we don't have time, blah, blah, blah.
	It's like, come on.
	This is important for our children.
	Even the suggestion will sound extremely funny to them.
	Really?
	But why?
	It will be, I think, especially for them, it will be totally incomprehensible.
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	But I don't understand.
	I mean, nobody's asking to become Shakespeare, but learn some English so you can have a relationship with your grandchildren.
	Am I wrong?
	And it's also good for them, they're aging.
	It's good for their brains to learn a new language.
	It's good for your brain to think new things.
	It's good for your brain to learn piano.
	It's good for them.
	Yeah.
	And it should matter to them.
	I mean, if, heaven forbid, one of your children was born deaf, would you not learn sign language?
	Of course I would.
	Of course you would.
	You wouldn't just sit there and say, well, kids, sorry.
	It's a little inconvenient.
	So we're not going to do it.
	You would accommodate, right?
	Absolutely, yes.
	Of course you would.
	Of course you would.
	So that's the standard.
	And again, I'm not saying they've got to drop everything and become, you know, fluent in English.
	But by not learning any English, they are guaranteed to have no relationship with their grandchildren, right?
	Yeah.
	And why on earth would people let that happen?
	I mean, unless they're currently in the process of curing cancer, it seems like something they would focus on.
	I think their point of view is that our kids need to learn their language.
	Well, which is easier.
	Yeah.
	It is easier for them, yeah.
	Well, and who is the more mature and who can make better decisions?
	And also, I'm going to assume that learning English, which is kind of like the universal language, is a little bit more helpful than learning whatever odd world language they're speaking, right?
	Yes, yes, obviously.
	Right.
	Look, and because we're doing homeschooling and stuff, that's why we need to teach English to our kids.
	It wouldn't be responsible.
	Their parents were foreigners and they're teaching their kids their own language.
	And they say, Oh, when my kid is six years old, he will go to school and he will learn English.
	So, what are you talking about?
	Well, and if your parents learn English, that's very beneficial to them as a whole.
	If your children learn some other language, then of course, what's going to happen is they're going to not use it and they're just going to be, they're going to lose it, right?
	I mean, I spoke German when I was very little for kind of this reason.
	And how much German do I speak now?
	Almost none.
	Because I didn't get to continue with it, right?
	I was doing another foreign language for five years and I don't remember how to count to ten.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, you know, you want to make sure that you're not just wasting time by having them learn some obscure language that they're never going to use again.
	So, yeah, I think there's a, I mean, there certainly is a good case to be made.
	But the reason that I'm sort of concerned, it doesn't sound like.
	I mean, sorry, this is to the husband.
	Do your parents speak English?
	My dad knows how to half read English, but everything he's pronouncing it his own way.
	My mom has no clue, and she has no, absolutely no reason to not learn because, as I said, she's an elementary school teacher, so she's quote unquote educated.
	Right.
	And she's retired for.
	Definitely since my kids were born.
	She was already retired.
	And do you know how much fun the grandparents could have if the children taught them English?
	To struggle to pronounce.
	Children love that stuff.
	It would be hilarious and so much fun to have the children try.
	No, no, grandma, you got it wrong.
	Let's try that again.
	Like, it would be so funny and so much fun.
	And what an interesting project.
	To have the kids try to teach the grandparents some basic English.
	Ka ate, granddad, cat, right?
	Cat.
	I don't know, whatever, right?
	Like, this could be hilarious.
	It could be so much fun, it could be really bonding.
	Yeah, true.
	But they don't want it, right?
	My dad says for the past two years that he's going to go to a school for English.
	But he has never actually done anything like that.
	But he says for the past two years that he's going to do that.
	Right.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	So it's just not a priority for him.
	Definitely not.
	And now he's retired.
	So he could go today.
	Of course.
	So, I mean, for me, if you're not interested in my children, we just don't have anything in common.
	And I'm not going to have someone in my life who doesn't.
	Treat my child well.
	Just not going to do it.
	I don't want to communicate to my daughter or have anyone communicate to my daughter that she's not important.
Comfortable Angles for Children 00:11:58
	I need to get that feedback into action, the anger.
	And whenever I see things like this, where my son is mildly mistreated, if it is something bigger, I will take action.
	But when I see mild things like this, as you said, it might sound mild, but then hang on, hang on.
	You got all of their grandparents showing no interest?
	That's mild?
	I mean, not.
	I think I used the wrong word.
	Not acute.
	Yeah, not immediate and dangerous, yeah.
	Yes, not acute.
	If I see something that's not acute, I don't take action and freeze.
	I need to take action on that type of problems too.
	Well, and the interesting thing is that the reason why you don't make demands of your parents.
	But instead, appease them at the expense of your children is exactly what you told me at the beginning.
	Your parents will kick up more of a fuss than your children will.
	Well, there you go.
	Right?
	So, as you said, like the person who kicks up the most fuss, who's the most crazy, gets their way.
	Now, your children are nice and accommodating and don't complain.
	Whereas, if you try to get your parents to behave better, they will kick and scream, right?
	Or be negative or something like that, right?
	So this is what I mean.
	This is what I mean when I say what you are teaching your children is that the least rational get their way and that the nice accommodating people get left behind because everyone's rushing around, appeasing the irrational, aggressive, selfish people.
	That's what you're teaching your children.
	I'm not saying consciously and I'm not saying it's some big disaster, but I'm telling you that's what you're teaching them because they know.
	That you appease your parents at their expense.
	I'm not saying they could articulate it, but they know deep down that's what's happening, and they'll know it more and more as they get older.
	And so, what you're teaching them, and this is why the children of peaceful parents will sometimes become aggressive, is because the peaceful parents are communicating to the children that you, my children, are nice and accommodating, so we're not going to really think about your needs, but.
	My parents are kind of aggressive and scary sometimes, so I'm going to do whatever they want and ignore what you need.
	And then we wonder why our children grow up being kind of punchy, because we've trained them that punchy works and being nice doesn't.
	Being punchy gets the children, sorry, being punchy gets the parents to appease.
	Yeah.
	And that's rough.
	It is rough indeed.
	And again, I say this with great sympathy, and you know, it's not any big disaster, but I think that's the issue.
	So, we both, my wife, need to be angry.
	We need to connect to our anger.
	I think so.
	Because otherwise, you're teaching your children that anger is bad and wrong, and that's going to leave them defenseless in a dangerous world, I think.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Is there anything else that you would like to mention?
	Maybe my second, if you have any ideas, which is my second question, less important, I don't even know if it's philosophical, which is given the geographic restrictions, how would you approach it?
	If you have any advice on how to find friends for my kids, especially my oldest son, if you have any advice, I know that's not really philosophical.
	But if you have an input on that, that would be great.
	Well, I mean, I think it's very important to get in touch with your anger.
	And they're related.
	Yeah, it's all very much related, right?
	So, what I mean by that is, people that you want to be around your children will be comfortable with anger.
	And if you are not comfortable with anger at all, then it will be less likely that people will be compatible with you that you want to have around your children.
	Okay.
	And also, anger will help you to.
	Anger will help you to keep the bad people away, and thus it will make it more likely that you would get the right or good people in your life, right?
	So, you had some people in your life who didn't turn out to be that great, right?
	They had lots of potential to become great, and I'm very pissed with them.
	Yeah, but they didn't have a cheap one.
	And it doesn't seem like that's about to happen.
	So, it's going to get the wrong way.
	So, all of the hundreds or dozens of hours that you've invested in that relationship is Energy that you haven't invested in a positive and more sustainable relationship.
	So, anger will help you to make sure you don't invest in lots of time in the wrong relationships.
	That's right.
	Because, you know, as you say, it's tough to find the right people, and you certainly don't want to be wasting time, right?
	It's very difficult.
	It's very difficult.
	As I said, we have a couple of free domainers, but they have younger kids closer to my other two kids.
	They're a little bit far away, but I guess we can bridge the distance.
	Yeah, but you'd like people, of course.
	I'm sure you'd want people in.
	They're driving distance, but with a baby, a driving distance more than 10 to 15 minutes is way too far away.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So, anything else that you wanted to mention just before we close up?
	Anything from you, Wise?
	No.
	So, is it just.
	We need to get in touch with our anger.
	And we also need to teach our son, not teach, but show him how to express his anger too and stand up for himself.
	Because then it.
	Do you think that even if we keep going to these groups, which he does enjoy, like he does enjoy the space, the playground?
	Of these specific playgroups, he does not enjoy the kids.
	But then it would be easier for him to enjoy these places and have fun with the kids.
	Because if you are a family where you are comfortable expressing anger, I don't know how it works.
	It's body language, it's posture, it's eye contact, it's something.
	And I saw this, or I heard this from the very beginning of this conversation that you are very mild.
	Mild mannered people, very gentle people.
	And that's nice in a lot of ways.
	I've got no particular problem with that.
	But the way that you present yourself is not strong or not potentially strong.
	And so when families meet you at these places, the children scan for it and they see, ah, these are very nice, mild mannered people.
	And therefore, we can push around their children.
	I'm not saying it's conscious, but When you are in contact with your anger and you are comfortable with your anger, you carry yourself very differently in the world.
	And people are much less likely to mess with you.
	I mean, over the course of doing my show, I've been confronted a number of times in public.
	And I've never been assaulted.
	I've never been screamed at.
	I hold myself high.
	I talk back.
	I don't flinch.
	I don't blink.
	And people calm down after a while.
	I don't know exactly how it works, but it kind of does.
	Yeah.
	If that makes sense.
	Thank you.
	Because initially it didn't make sense to me.
	Like, There was a week that my son, something happened at this playgroup and he was crying.
	And I told him, you know, I don't want you to start a fight, but if someone is being aggressive with you, it's okay to fight back.
	And then I told my husband, you know, I think that he needs to see how to function around these people.
	But then I thought, but yeah, but if I don't like someone, I just don't go around them.
	So why do I ask him to do that?
	No, but you do go around them.
	Your parents.
	Well, yeah, I do.
	I didn't.
	Yeah, that's not that.
	And he's sitting down.
	Hang on.
	But that's important because he's seen that repeatedly.
	That you guys do not stand up to and are honest with your parents.
	And again, I'm not trying to be a big critical guy here, but it's just a fact.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No, you're right.
	You're right.
	I didn't think about it back then because I was not thinking about my parents.
	I was thinking about friends.
	Like, if these friends, for example, that my husband mentioned, I thought, if I don't want to see them, then I just.
	Don't see them.
	So, how can I ask him to fight if I choose to not?
	Oh, yeah.
	If you run, then yeah, how are you asking him to fight?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's a funny phenomenon, but it's a very real thing that the more confident and the more in touch with your anger you tend to be, the less people mess with you.
	And it's a way of preventing it.
	Like, I have never been in a fist fight.
	And I've had, as you know, a lot of confrontations in this world.
	Lots of opportunities.
	Oh, yeah.
	Lots of people want to fight and all this and the other, right?
	So, and I think that's because I work out and I try to carry myself in a confident way and I'm in touch with my anger.
	Now, as far as you want to prevent, right?
	Not cure.
	If you can teach your child that anger is healthy and this is twice when he got into a conflict and he cried, no, no.
	That's no good.
	I'm sorry.
	That's no good.
	Because if he's going to cry when he gets into a conflict, people are going to pick on him.
	So.
	I think that if you teach your child, well, if someone messes with you, you hit them, you push them, or something like that, that could be quite dangerous.
	I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, right?
	That's right.
	But, you know, if he pushes them, they can push him.
	He could fall off the slide.
	He could break an arm.
	Like, who knows, right?
	Or they could just start hunting him, like you had with this bully of a couple of years when you were sort of 13, 14, 15.
	You don't want that either.
	That's right.
	So prevention is much better, as you know, than saying, well, Just hit the kid or whatever, right?
	Because that's going to introduce a whole different element into life, which is violence and retaliation and so on, right?
	Yeah, and I don't feel it's a good idea.
	That's why I suggested first to yell at the kid back.
	Yeah, and that's okay.
	But you don't yell at anyone, right?
	You're right.
	There's hypocrisy here.
	I don't disagree with you.
	You've got to stand up for yourself, kid.
	Oh, mom is calling.
Thank You for Peaceful Parenting 00:01:17
	I've got to go talk to her.
	Yeah.
	With you.
	I'm 100% with you.
	And I would like to say thank you so much for all of your teachings.
	And thank you so much for teaching and propagating peaceful parenting.
	Because if we didn't have your teachings, we wouldn't be the parents we are.
	Thank you so much for that.
	Thank you so much for all of the beautiful lessons you have taught us over the years.
	And for peaceful parenting, you're the one and only.
	Homeschooling, there are other people who talk about that topic too.
	Peaceful parenting, you are the one and only who talks about it.
	So, thank you so much for that work.
	You're very welcome.
	I really do appreciate the call today and thank you for opening up your family.
	It's very instructive and I'm sure will be very helpful to others.
	And I really appreciate your time tonight.
	Thank you so much.
	Would you like to say something?
	Yeah, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Just thank you because you helped connect the dots.
	We can see the facts, we could see the facts, but we could not.
	Make the connection.
	I'm very glad.
	That's my particular autism.
	All right.
	Thanks, guys.
	Take care.
	Stay in touch.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Bye bye.
	Bye bye.

Chapters

00:00:00 Raising Kids Peacefully
00:15:12 When Teachers Fail to Protect
00:21:22 The Cowardly Parent's Choice
00:37:22 Hope vs. Reality with In-Laws
00:40:47 Letting Go of the Silly Hope
00:50:32 Why Avoiding Anger Hurts Bonds
00:58:49 Language Barriers and Grandparents
01:12:40 What Silence Communicates to Kids
01:19:20 Teach Your Parents Some English
01:25:13 Comfortable Angles for Children
01:37:12 Thank You for Peaceful Parenting