All Episodes
Previous Next
Sept. 22, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:21:20
A 5 Year Old Fights with his Dad! CALL IN SHOW
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Hello, hello.
2nd of June 2025, just after 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
Gonna answer some questions in case people had any questions live that they wanted to ask.
I am perfectly happy to hear those.
Thank you so much.
Yes, sir.
Go ahead.
Hey, Stefan.
Um I had a question.
Um so I have a I have a daughter.
Um she's almost two.
Um and you know, I take her to the park and stuff.
Um and I often feel a lot of like anxiety around other children.
And I'm trying to figure out how much of that is like is just based on reality, like other children not being peacefully parenting this kind of stuff and being cautious about that, or how much of that is based on on my own history.
Um not sure if this is uh if you have time for a question like that, or um that's a good question.
Well you mean it's a parenting question.
You're a listener with a kid.
That's what I said how I roll, is what I do.
So yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Tell me more.
Uh yeah, so so um I mean, I picked my daughter at the park, and she's not really old enough to play with the other kids, but she kind of just likes to be around them, just like watch them and um and sort of observe and maybe she'll sort of um engage sometimes, but for the most part, she just likes to watch them and just kind of be around and whenever the other kids are around, it's it's just kind of uh it's I find it a little nerve-wracking.
Um and yeah, I'm just trying to figure out uh because I had you know, I had a bad childhood and um I um uh a lot of um social isolation and stuff, and my parents didn't really prepare me to deal with other kids and this kind of thing.
So I'm trying to figure out how much is that like I need to get over my own thing, or if it's just objective, like you know, kids are not peacefully parenting you need to be cautious around them.
Okay, well, uh more variables is always good.
Tell me a little bit about your childhood.
Or a lot.
Uh yeah.
Um so my um my my par my mother was um uh very uh um was very busy and she she worked in she was like a mark.
She'd come home at like seven or eight, uh pretty much every night.
Um and my dad um was very distant, very emotionally distant and and not really there, and he had like a really bad temper.
Um so the and it would be you know over over little things.
I actually talked to you about this ten years ago now.
Um but um yeah, and yeah, I don't remember them giving me any sort of advice on how to deal with other children.
Like the earliest memory I have with um dealing with other children was um it was like my first day of pre-kindergarten.
You'd spend like half the day at school.
Um I was dropped off and four.
Uh pre-K.
It must be I remember grade one was um I was I would have been seven, turning seven, so I must have been four or five, yeah.
And uh what was going on in your childhood before that?
Was your mother home or did you um were you dumped somewhere?
No, I had a nanny.
Um my mother was um she stayed home for like you know six months, typical maternity leave, and then um my father was a teacher at a college, so he didn't actually work that much uh because he is a college teacher.
Um so he was home a fair amount, but I had a nanny.
Um I had like a string of nannies kind of like in um a character in the Gaudi A. Oh, did you say uh a string of nannies?
The nummies, right?
I had um yeah, I had a nanny and I nanny that I really bonded with a lot, actually.
Um and she was she was quite good to me from what I remember.
She was like Croatian.
Um and she but she um I don't remember why she stopped being my nanny, but I don't know if it was her choice or my parents, but I was really like heartbroken when she stopped being my nanny when I was I must have been uh eight, nine, something like that.
Um but yeah.
Oh wow.
So you you had a nanny up so like your late.
I had a nanny until eight or nine.
Yeah, and then we had like our our neighbor became our nanny.
Like her neighbor was a stay-at-home mom, and she just sort of um I guess my parents paid her to be our nanny.
Uh and then I had like an Italian nanny who was it was kind of weird, but um that was more like when I was almost a teenager until I was old enough to kind of take care of myself at home.
Okay.
So uh did the nanny uh did you remember your early nannies at all?
Uh yeah, my first nanny I remember quite a bit.
She was um I mostly have positive memories of her.
She was um she was very uh very warm and and nice and hadn't a daughter that kind of hung out with us the whole time when she was working.
The daughter was like a few years older.
She was we were like five or a few years older than than me at the time yeah.
And did you play with her at all?
Uh yeah yeah we played we played a lot with her.
So you had some experience with kids as a kid.
Yes yeah.
And do you have siblings?
I have a younger sister, yeah.
Okay.
How much younger?
She's three years younger.
And did you play with her much at all?
Um not not so much.
A little bit here and there.
But for the most part I'd play with my nanny or I'd play with my like Legos or something.
Not so much with her.
Oh so you played solitarily is that right?
Yeah or with my nanny for the most part.
Okay.
And were there kids in the neighborhood?
Uh yeah there were kids in the neighborhood.
I remember playing with them more as I got a bit older.
I think more after like seven or eight or nine we would it was kind of like um you know it was it was Canada in the in the 90s and early 2000s.
So it was pretty high trust still back then and we uh sort of played like hockey and basketball and this kind of stuff and just kind of like free range to some degree but that was it was a bit older that that I started playing with other kids in the neighborhood.
Okay.
All right.
So you have reasonable levels of experience playing with kids, right?
Yes, yeah.
Okay, but not until you were older.
Yeah.
Okay.
So tell me what happens when you go to the park in Canada.
Uh right now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um we go to the park um and I sort of just um we either push my daughter in the swing um and she kind of likes doing that and and staring at the kids or she's sort of she likes climbing now so she's really good at climbing things.
So if you know if there's no one there I don't feel the anxiety obviously um but when when there are other kids there we kind of just go go to the park and um she sort of stares at them and we I kind of like hang around her and make sure they don't like bump into her or something or she doesn't fall um off of the off of the playground.
um so i fall off the playground uh it's you know it's on on the um when you climb on the playground and she's not like old enough to sort of um climb herself all the way up so um like not the monkey bars or the climbing the monkey bars it's kind of yeah yeah the climbing got it okay and have you seen kids who are mean or careless at the park yeah yeah and
what have you seen um well not so much not so much mean a little bit of mean um like i saw this group of three kids and it was like a a boy and two girls and i have a really hard time uh guessing ages um but i would guess that they're maybe nine ten eleven um and
the boy uh kind of like threw rocks at the one girl um and then she was she said something
and he was like every time you say that word I'm gonna throw stuff at you um so that that was kind of the the the main thing I saw and another time um I was at the park and um it was like a uh there's like a campground near me um and uh we were there on like a Friday afternoon so everyone was like coming in for the weekend.
Sorry you mean like in the dog campground Yeah yeah yeah not like a kid's camp summer camp.
Okay got it.
No no yeah yeah yeah just a campground where people come uh for the weekend um and there's like a day use area that we can hang out in and it's like walking distance from our house.
And there were like four kids there.
So there's a one boy um and he was like he must have been like 12 or 13.
He was really like athletic looking and just kind of showed up and um none of these kids were were that mean but I I sort of the the three kids were in a family, and then this one just random boy came and became friends with them just like automatically, as I guess sometimes happens when you're kids.
Um he kind of like ran off with the other kids, they went to like the campsite or whatever, and then came back and I overheard it's that that random boy's parents, um, and he was like talking like pretty like not nicely to his daughter, um the the father of the boy.
Um I I couldn't hear what they were saying, but um I think he was asking where the boy went, and she was like, I don't know, and he was like he was just being like it seemed unnecessarily like stern with her.
Yeah.
Um and then the um the the boy came back and the the father called the boy over um and said something like oh you you don't like you stay at the park or you come here, like you don't you don't go off running, which I guess is reasonable, but it seems like it would make more sense to like get to know the other kids and see if they're like safe to hang out with kind of thing, rather than just like uh scold them or whatever.
So I felt sort of anxious around those kids because they're a little rough around the edges.
Some of the people around here are a little like um trailer trashy.
Well, but you want your kids to be around kids who are a little rough around the edges because they're gonna meet those people in life, right?
And I'm not saying at the age of two they your daughter fends for herself.
I'm not saying anything like that.
But try not to be, and I'm not saying you are, but try to avoid the bubble rap parent thing, like because I had bad experiences, my children cannot have bad experiences.
Do you know what I mean?
It's sort of like if you were chronically sick as a child, and then you say, Well, my kids can't go anywhere or do anything because they don't want them to be sick.
Right?
Well, that's not yeah, you know.
That's that's not gonna help, right?
Because they need to be out there, you know, a little bit eating dirt and being exposed to germs, and that's you know, that's important, right?
So uh it's important not to swing the other way, right?
So your kids are gonna have negative experiences.
That doesn't mean that you're a bad parent.
In fact, because life is well, I mean, sometimes it feels like an entire sequence of negative experiences, you know, they certainly cluster, right?
So your kids need to be able to deal with negative situations, they need to be able to deal with uh difficult people, they need to be able to deal with aggressive people, because they're gonna run into those in life, and so you need to give them some sort of inoculation.
Now again, you don't turn them loose, you model it all, and we'll get to that in a sec.
But is it your feeling that your daughter can't experience negative exp have have negative experiences?
Uh yes, I think I think there's some of that um overprotectiveness, and I think my wife uh sort of uh feels that way as well.
So give me sort of your top two or three most negative experiences as a kid that you think is driving this, and they could be long-term experiences too.
Hmm.
So I think uh well, so the uh the the story that I think I didn't finish at the beginning, um, but my first day of pre-K we were uh it I I kind of showed up and um we were running just running around a tree.
Uh that that was just the whole game.
I was running around the tree, and I think um some kids uh pushed me over um and that was like a negative um experience for me.
And it wasn't like a huge negative experience for me.
Um it's just that I I didn't have anyone to talk to about it, and I didn't like it.
Sorry, tell me kid push you over.
What do you mean?
In what detail?
What does that mean?
Um like we're running around a tree and some kid pushed me over um and I fell and it hurt or whatever.
Um what was your impression that this was a conscious like it wasn't just like they you were running into each other, he put his hands out to protect himself and you fell down.
Do you think this was a target you lock-in conscious push you over thing?
Uh he was behind me, so I don't I don't think it was uh it was an accident.
Well, it could be, and again, I'm not trying to defend the kid, I'm just trying to saying it is it possible that how old was the kid, roughly?
Uh he would have been the same age as being sort of around five or six.
Okay, so he could have just been get out of the way, like it may not have been malicious.
Uh possibly, right?
So um again, you don't know what his intentions were.
Uh And it's important not to jump to conclusions about intentions as a whole.
So you you were pushed over, and it could have been malevolent.
It could have been, although it's hard to say a five-year-old is malevolent, right?
But it could also have been um accidental, right?
Maybe he was tripping and just reached out to steady himself and you got pushed, or maybe he was just kind of selfish in a way, and he was like, get out of my way, you're in my way, I need you to move out of my way.
Or it could have been I'm gonna push you over to hurt you and you know be a bully or whatever, right?
So it could be any number of those things, but you were pushed and you fell, and then what?
Um that that that's pretty much it.
Um I'm trying to think of um.
So you would do it.
Wait, well, you did you get like strawberry knee or you cut some bruises, or what happened with you being pushed?
Um I don't remember if I had any cuts and bruises.
It it just it was just kind of an unsettling experience.
Um to go from because it was my first day in public school, basically.
Um, to go from just like hanging out with my nanny and and the kids on the block, I guess, and my my parents, and then um being sort of just a little bit.
So you you hit some rough.
Running around at a tree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, and help me understand.
I mean, you weren't injured, right?
You got pushed down and helped me I'm not trying to minimize your experience.
I'm just trying to understand why this stuck with you in in this way.
Um, I I think it I think it stuck with me because um because I wasn't um taught how to how to deal with that or that that was um how would you how would you have dealt with it if you'd been taught?
Do you think, oh, how would you teach a kid?
Hmm.
you I don't mean this to sound overly challenging.
Like what the hell would you do?
I'm Jim genuinely curious, right?
How how would you like how would you have liked people to deal with it?
Yeah, so I think it probably would have been something like um if I guess my dad might have talked to me uh uh that it was probably like a father conversation, and it's something like um well, you know how we sort of um we like wrestle and and we play in this kind of thing.
Um and uh I'm you know, I'm an adult and I'm able to sort of control my body and this kind of thing.
Um and and kids and you like to you like to rough house too and stuff, and you like to wrestle with me.
Um kids when you play with other kids, they don't have the same um ability to control themselves like I do.
Um so if if you get into sort of rough housing with other kids, um they might you know push you and you might fall and it might hurt a little bit.
Um but that's okay because that that's part of part of being a kid, and that's part of um you know learning how to how to use your um maybe maybe unless uh uh you know um uh maybe less verbose words, but um how to describe it, but something like that, like um it's sort of it's natural to to rough house with other kids and it gets a bit out of hand and you might get a little bit hurt.
Okay.
Um however, of course, it could have been a mean kid who wanted to hurt you.
Could have been, right?
So uh you can't give that speech as if you know what the kid's intentions are.
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh but it was not physically traumatic, right?
You just you got pushed over, unsettling, I get that.
But it wasn't physically dangerous or traumatic.
Did the kid Correct?
Uh did you see the kid after that?
Was he continuing to be careless or cruel?
I can't even remember these people at all.
I can't remember um, but if the kid had been sorry to interrupt if the kid had been careless and cruel, I'm sure you would have remembered it, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I I don't remember um much about this kid apart from the So mostly an I mean most likely an accident if it didn't if he didn't like target you again and push you over again, like repeatedly, which I'm sure you would remember.
So most likely an accident based on subsequent behavior, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
So why do you think it unsettled you so much and to start a criticism?
I'm genuinely curious.
I'm genuinely curious.
I'm genuinely curious.
I mean, I have a theory, but it's your experience, so your your experience matters more than my theory.
Well, I'm curious to hear hear your theory, because I'm I'm drawing a blank a bit here.
Well, my theory would be that because you were pushed over and because you fell and it was upsetting and maybe a little painful, you realized that you were unprotected in the world because you didn't have a father you could talk to about it.
I don't know if you tried to talk about it with your nanny or your mother or uh anyone else, but you you got a very strong sense of your own isolation in the social milieu because you were aggressed against by accident or on purpose, and you didn't have anyone you could talk to or anyone who would protect you,
and therefore you got a strong sense of your isolation, and it was not the push of the fall that was unsettling, it was the uh unprotected and isolated nature of your existence as a child, I think.
Socially Yeah, yeah, that's that's definitely that's I think that's that resonates um because I did talk to my nanny about it, um, but I didn't talk to talk to my dad about it.
And come to think about it, I was already, you know, I was playing sports, and I think I was playing hockey by that time, and um definitely more um aggression happened in hockey or you know, accidental falling or this kind of thing.
But it was like sort of a structured environment.
Yeah, for those who don't know an old joke in Canada, like I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.
Yeah.
Um so that I think that's that's definitely um that that is what it is.
Yeah.
Okay, so why didn't you talk about it with your father?
And again, I hate to repeat myself.
I'm I'm I'm sorry to be a broken record.
This is not like, well, why the hell didn't you talk to your father?
It's genuine curiosity.
Why why did you not talk to your father?
with your concern?
Um I think uh I got the sense mostly that it was it was pointless.
Um that he didn't have any interest in sharing with me how to deal with uh situations like this.
Um he didn't um really know how to deal with this kind of stuff either, because he I think he he grew up as a socially awkward person too um and never really awkward guy who ended up as a university professor.
All right.
One is um I think he grew up socially awkward and um he never uh learned how to deal with um with people and how to be like reasonably assertive because he um you know he had a bad temper and he would sort of like build up these resentments and and not sort of talk about them in a healthy way, and then eventually it would just, you know, uh boil over and he'd he'd like scream or something.
Um I just got the sense that it was pointless.
Most professors are very fragile bullies, which is why they have to go for tenure, right?
I mean, why why would you be so desperate for tenure if you felt you could earn and keep your job based on your merits?
So they tend to be kind of fragile, and because they have so much power and the students they have so much power over students, uh they end up being kind of bullies.
I'm not saying that's true of all professors, and maybe that's not one-to-one ratio with your dad, but it's quite common.
And very immature.
Very, very immature.
They stay very immature because they're shielded from adulthood market competition, blowback consequences, and so on.
So go ahead.
Yeah, he was he was like a huge underachiever because he was like he he scored like mental level on like um he'd do like IQ tests and you'd score mental level and I don't remember.
I don't know that that's super impressive.
Um I I just know that he took IQ tests and it was very high.
And I think he was a very smart uh person.
Um but um he he just like totally wasted his intellect.
Well, not totally.
I mean, if he was a cab driver, maybe, or some five easy pieces thing, but what do you mean totally?
Oh, because he taught like um uh climate change stuff, like uh sustainability.
So I feel like that's a waste.
Um he was a survey called climate change propaganda, or that was necessary to have his job.
He showed me that um Al Gore documentary, what was it?
Um, truth.
Yeah.
Um and he was like talking about peak oil and this kind of thing.
Um, he began talking to you about environmental issues.
Um must have been have a hard time remembering.
It must have been like twelve or something like that.
Oh, okay.
So he didn't he didn't hit your single digits with we're all gonna die uh in a hellish configuration, right?
Okay.
So it was at least until you were older.
Yeah.
A bit older, yeah.
Okay.
So you said that you felt it would be useless to talk to your father.
What did you anticipate his response to be that you avoided talking to him about the push?
Um it probably would have been something very brief, like um like, oh well, well, kids are like that or something.
Um and it wouldn't have been a very he probably would have tried to like keep the conversation brief and and change the subject.
Okay, so let me try meeting your inner dad.
So I'll be you at five.
I won't alter my voice in any particular way because I don't respond well to helium.
But um yeah, you be your dad and I'll I'll be you talking about this so I can get a sense of how he would respond if that's all right.
Uh sure.
Okay.
Uh so dad, uh I got I got it was my first day at pre-K today and I got pushed over by another kid.
It was really really unpleasant.
Uh that that's not that's not very nice, is it?
No, it wasn't nice at all.
And I I felt really bad.
I mean, I didn't get hurt really, but I just felt really bad.
And I don't know what to do.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Okay.
I'm trying I haven't heard I'm kind of blanking.
Um he would he would just he wouldn't continue the conversation.
Yeah, oh yeah, that's tough.
And he would just blank off or go off somewhere or pick up his phone or something like that, right?
So then I would say, Dad, I kind of need your I I need something from you.
Like what do I do if I get pushed over?
Oh, well, you just uh, you know, you you pick yourself up and you dust it off, that happens sometimes.
Well, it didn't just happen.
Like a kid pushed me.
What am I supposed to do?
Um, I'm I'm not really sure.
Well, what do you do when people push you around?
I mean, I'm not saying people push you over, but what do you do?
Well, I'm not I'm not really a kid anymore, so it doesn't really really happen to me.
Oh, so nobody like pushes you around or nobody's ever mean to you or 'cause it seems like you're kind of grouchy about work a lot.
Uh yeah, well, I mean my my students are kind of a pain sometimes.
So your students can be difficult, right?
And maybe they try and push you around or they ask for things that are unfair or something like that.
So what do you do?
Um, I kind of just um I uh I sort of make snarky comments uh and uh you know make them feel stupid.
Oh I mean that's not very assertive, is it?
What what do you mean?
Well, I mean of course I'm not speaking like a five-year-old here, just so you know.
But maybe that seems kind of passive aggressive.
You don't confront them directly on it, you just make mean comments and try to make them feeb feel bad, right?
Because you know, you have a pretty bad temper around here sometimes, Dad.
And so I guess you know something about and and so when a kid pushes me over, you say, Well, you're just supposed to dust it off and and I don't know, ignore it, but you don't ignore things that make you mad, which is why you kind of grouchy.
I mean sometimes.
Uh yeah, well, you know, um you can't really uh you know get get really aggressive with uh with your students.
Uh but you do get pretty aggressive at home, right?
Well, you know, sometimes I sometimes I lose my temper.
Okay, okay, so because I was mad at the kid, right?
So I'm trying to figure out when should I lose my temper?
And the first thing you say to me is, you've you got pushed over and it was really upsetting, but don't let it bother you.
But it seems like a lot of things bother you at home.
So I'm trying to figure out the difference.
I mean, if if you were waiting uh on the street corner and someone pushed you down to the ground and you kind of hurt yourself, wouldn't you get mad?
Uh yeah, I guess uh I guess I would.
Okay, so what's the difference?
Why should I just brush things off and not let them bother me?
But you would get mad." Um well.
You know.
Umce you get older, things are different.
I feel like you're just kind of making up answers here, Dad.
I mean, you get the contradiction.
Like you get the contradiction.
Uh get that it doesn't fit together, right?
I I should not let things bother me, but you spend a good chunk of your time cranky and mad around the house about things that aren't particularly important relative to get put getting pushed over.
So I said, Well, if you got pushed over, you'd get mad.
Yes, I would.
But you you, son, you shouldn't get mad.
You should just let it not bother you.
But then why don't you follow that advice and not let things bother you?
I mean I'm not complaining, I'm just I'm just confused.
Um I guess it's just uh you know, it's just just how thing how how I am, just how I am, I guess.
Well, that's not that's not an answer.
Right?
With all due respect, Dad.
I mean, if you had a if you had a student who contradicted himself, right?
You'd say, well, you have to resolve that contradiction, right?
If you had a student who said, I don't know, CO2 is good and bad for global warming, you'd say, well, it kinda has to be one or the other, right?
You and if if the kids if the kid said, Well, that's just how my mind is, or that's just how things work, would you accept that?
That's just how I am?
No.
Right.
So you can't just say that's how I am.
That doesn't resolve any contradiction, does it?
Uh no, I guess not.
So what what do you what are you doing?
I don't understand what's at this conversation.
It's just it feels like I'm in a in a in a in a in a laundry dryer just being tumbled around.
Like when are you supposed to let things what when are you supposed to not get bothered by things and when are you supposed to get bothered by things?
I don't understand the difference.
I don't understand the difference.
I'm having a hard time uh answering in a way that's not like truth serums.
Just answer it.
Yeah, but answer.
Thank you.
Well, you know, you're a very smart kid.
I'm not sure how that answers my question.
If I said to you, Dad, what is two and two make and you said, Well, you're a very smart kid, you're saying like I should just figure it out for myself?
Uh well, uh yeah.
Okay, but you're in your forties.
And I it seems that you haven't figured it out because you tell me not to get bothered by somebody who pushes me to the ground, but you get bothered by pretty minor things at home.
So if I'm a smart kid and I'm five and I'm supposed to figure it out, how is it that you haven't figured it out in your forties?
How can you say that I should figure it out when you haven't?
I mean, I'm asking you to do some parenting, Dad.
Like you gotta give me some rules here.
You gotta give me some feedback.
I mean, am I supposed to just parent myself?
Am I supposed to just raise myself?
I don't I don't understand what's happening in this conversation.
Um I mean you're supposed to give me some knowledge and wisdom, aren't you?
Uh well, you know, I I try to do what I what I can.
Well, I that's just words, Dad, because you're not doing much of anything right now.
I mean, would you say it's kind of complicated to figure out when you should get mad and fight back and when you should rise above things?
Yeah, I guess it's uh it's complicated.
You guess.
What do you mean?
You don't know this?
Yeah, it's it's complicated.
Okay, so stop guessing about things you know.
That's very confusing, okay?
So it is complicated, so uh have you got it all figured out in your forties?
Have you got it all figured out when you should get mad and when you should let things go?
Uh no, I don't.
So, Dad, what the hell?
Why would you tell me at the age of five to figure out something you in your forties haven't figured out?
Does that not seem weird to you?
Like if if you haven't figured out quantum mechanics or quantum physics or something, would you say to your kid at the age of five, you figure it out?
Uh well, you seem like you're pretty good at figuring things out.
You're not answering my question.
That's kind of rude, Dad.
Uh No, I um I I don't think I'd expect you to figure out quantum mechanics.
Okay, so if you haven't figured out when to get mad and when to let things go in your forties, is it fair to expect me at the age of five to figure that out?
Uh no.
So what are you doing?
I don't understand this interaction.
This is all just like weird fog and confusion.
Oh, I get it.
I know what's happening.
Oh, Dad.
That's very cunning.
Oh, you're good.
I mean, I'm happy to hear your answer, but I think I know what it is.
Uh go ahead.
Well, you don't want to give me a rule about when I should get mad and when I should let things go.
because then you'd be bound by that rule and you wouldn't be able to be Mr. Grapchi Pans all day.
Hmm.
Yeah, I guess it would be uh it wouldn't be very uh it would be kind of hypocritical on me, would it be so you don't want to define any rule.
It's kind of like American governments or all the governments around the world.
They many years ago they tried to come up with a definition of terrorism, but they couldn't come up with one that didn't include all of their foreign policy.
Again, I'm not speaking like a five-year-old.
But yeah, so you don't want to define rules because then you'll be subjected to them, so you're just giving me all of this fog and nonsense, right?
But uh that makes sense.
So do you think that's good parenting?
Um, I guess not.
So Dad, I don't understand all of this fog.
Like you guess, you think maybe blah blah blah, right?
I mean when you get mad, things are kind of absolute, right?
Someone did you wrong, you're mad, you're upset, you're grouchy, right?
You storm around, you snarl.
So is it or is it not good parenting to not impose like not have rules for good conduct for your kids for fear that they might ask you to fulfill them?
Um Yeah, I guess I guess that's not good.
See, again, but the I guess.
Well, what what is going on?
Maybe I think I guess possibly.
I mean, this is all just a bunch of foggy nonsense.
Like, is it or is it not good parenting?
It's not good parenting.
So why would you not do good parenting?
Because it's it's easier.
Well, it's easier for you.
It's way harder for me.
Do you know how terrified it was, Dad, to come up and talk to you about this?
Uh no, I'm I'm not sure.
I don't know.
Well, I was terrified that exactly what has happened would happen.
Which is that you just kind of dodge and weave and duck and make things up and not answer my questions and be all vague and right?
Not give me any any parenting or feedback.
Like I can't think of useful things that you've told me as your son to help me out there in the world.
And you don't really spend much time with me, and you don't really play with me too much.
So I mean how I mean let me ask you this.
Right?
How would you rate yourself as a dad from one to ten?
Maybe like a five.
So fifty percent of the time you do good parenting.
Uh yeah, I think so.
Okay.
So if I told you that I mean I just told you that I can't really think of any particular rules or feedback that you've given me that's helpful in the world, particularly the world of other kids or social life or whatever.
If I say I can't remember one, and you say no, about fifty percent of the time I give you great advice.
You can see a difference, right?
Uh yeah, well, like um we have like a nice house and um I think No, no, but that's not parenting, that's providing.
I mean uh the government provides for people that doesn't pay for them, right?
It pays for them but doesn't parent them, right?
So providing money, providing a house, uh that's not parenting.
I mean uh to take a silly extreme.
Uh prisons and gulags provide food and shelter.
But nobody thinks that that's a benevolent or positive situation, right?
Well, they don't provide very good shelter.
Right.
I get that.
But I mean, most parents throughout human history didn't provide very good shelter relative to a modern prison.
Right.
At least a modern prison has air conditioning and soap and showers, right?
Most people throughout human history, most parents didn't provide that, but we wouldn't call them bad parents if they gave good advice and were really connected with and cared about their kids more, right?
Right.
Thank you.
And and you providing is you being away, right?
You have to be away to provide.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I guess that's part of being a parent, but it's not the same as being present.
Okay, like when was the last time you and I spent a day together doing stuff?
Um this is at five, age five.
Um well, I took you to the um the arperetum that one day.
Okay, so that's once when else.
Um, I take you to your uh your sports every weekend.
Well, that's not you and I spending time together.
That's like saying you're going on vacation with the guy who drives you to the airport.
That's not that's not it, right?
What else?
Um We uh we go for you know walks and stuff sometimes.
Okay.
How often uh how often a month do we go for walks where we have good conversations?
Good conversations?
Um never.
But um Well, what do you do on these weeks then?
Uh we just um I own a role play, I found the walks really boring.
I didn't like going on walks or anything like that.
Was he just like nature and animals and plants or like silent or what?
Um like he at the college they had an arboretum.
Um with like uh I guess they did like uh wildlife stuff and maybe they'd point out like lile wildlife or this kind of thing, but I found that pretty boring.
Um we would maybe go on walks and I hated going all walks.
I like walking now, but um he liked walking a lot, but I hated it because it was it was so boring.
Um we never had any people company.
What would he would he say anything?
We might talk about if we talked about anything it would be about sports.
Um but apart from that, yeah, pretty much.
Pretty almost nothing.
Okay, so he didn't inquire in his mind as to what would be most enjoyable for you and try and fulfill that, right?
No, no, of course not.
So let's jump back in.
Um okay, when was the last time we had a good long conversation about things?
Uh I can't remember.
Okay, so then you're not really doing much, if any parenting, right?
Well, I guess by uh by your definition, no.
Well, that's kind of weasely, right?
I mean, do you not think that it's good parenting as a whole to have interesting conversations, like spend time together, play together and have a conversations that are interesting and enjoyable for your children?
Uh well my parents kind of just uh let me uh let me roam free and um didn't have too many conversations with them.
Okay.
And did you think did you prefer that to having interesting and enjoyable and connected conversations with your parents?
Well, I think I had a pretty good childhood.
Sorry, you had a what?
I had a I had a good childhood, I think.
Yeah.
But you didn't answer my question.
Again, kind of rude, right?
Do you remember what my question was, Dad?
Um did uh my parents have uh or would I prefer it on the other hand?
Would you have preferred it if you'd had connected and enjoyable conversations with your parents?
Um Yeah, well, I I would um I would like to uh you know I've talked about how I would like to be able to talk to my mom again.
Uh she died when um before I was born.
So he would talk about that sometime.
Yeah, that's not my my question though.
And I'm sorry about your dead mom, of course, but that's still not my question.
Um Yeah, I guess I guess that would have been nice.
Okay, so it would have been better for you if you'd had more enjoyable or intimate conversations with your parents, right?
Uh yes.
Okay.
So if that's something that's missing for you, then shouldn't you want to provide that for me?
Hmm.
Thank you.
Yeah, I guess I um I'm just kind of a quiet person.
Sorry, you guess what does that mean again?
You understand that five-year-old kids can't handle variability of that kind.
Right?
They can't say, well, I guess means 35.7% agreement.
Right?
Uh high degrees of variability for kids are completely incomprehensible.
You know, so if you say to a five-year-old, you know, there's a 39% chance of rain tomorrow, do you know do they know what that means?
Um no, I don't I don't think they do.
Right.
So so stop giving me all these variables, right?
I guess maybe a little whatever, right?
That's that's age inappropriate to put it mildly.
Yes, it would be better.
So you said that you are just a um you are just a quiet person.
Uh yes.
So you do you just mime things at when you're teaching your students?
I don't understand, but I mean, don't you fill the whole room with your voice when you're teaching your students?
Yes, I do.
So you understand that's a little confusing.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So how how how do I let me let me step you through the next part of parenting, Dad?
How do I resolve this confusion when you say I'm a quiet person, but you're also a public speaker?
Well, I guess well, I um a lot of my my social energy um is used up at at at school, and I I like to unwind when I when I come home.
So you care more about providing for the needs of your students than your children.
Well, that's a higher priority, right?
Well, uh, they pay me, so you're following the economics, and since your students pay you, they're worth putting energy into, but your children don't pay you, and therefore um they get much less of your energy, right?
Uh yes.
Now, do you think that's good parenting to say I don't spend much energy on my children because they don't pay me money?
I mean, does that seem like I mean, do you hear it yourself?
Does this does it seem like the way to go?
Uh well, you know, we uh we do other stuff together.
Okay, Dad.
I'm really starting to get pissed off here.
Like seriously.
You you keep ignoring my questions.
Would you accept that from your students?
You ask them a question and they just they go on a tangent and won't answer it.
Uh no.
Right.
So this is more hip hypocrisy, right?
You wouldn't accept it from other people, but you do it yourself.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I mean, that's kind of terrible, isn't it?
To give yourself permission to do things you'd find completely unacceptable in others?
Thank you.
Thank you.
well, well, well, well, well, Yeah, you would probably just, you know, um do another uh tangent or something.
You're still not answering my question.
You know, like I I at the age of five, I shouldn't have to teach you about basic politeness.
But basic politeness goes something like this.
If someone answers you uh asks you a question, you either answer it or tell the person you're not going to answer it.
You don't pretend they didn't say anything, or just go on some tangent of your own.
Would you agree that that's sort of basic politeness?
Uh yes.
Okay, so why are you being rude to your kid?
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
Well, I guess I I can Right.
And how dare you?
How dare you say to me that I matter less to you as your child, as your son, because I don't pay you money.
How dare you say to me that I matter less to you as your child, as your son, because I don't pay you money.
W why become a father then?
I mean, that's kind I mean it's a big confusion for me as a whole dad, just so you know.
Like, why become a father if you don't really seem to enjoy spending time with your kids?
And then you say, well, I'd enjoy spending time with you more if you paid me.
Thank you.
I mean, that's wild.
Can you imagine mom charging you uh fifteen bucks for a hug?
Or twenty bucks for a kiss or something like that.
Can you imagine?
She said, Well, you know, I'd be more affectionate if you paid me.
Wouldn't that kind of make mom a prostitute?
Um Yeah, that wouldn't be very nice.
So why why do you think you have why do you think you give yourself permission to say these absolutely horrendous things to me?
Like you'd have more value to me if you paid me to be your father.
If you paid me.
If you had money.
I mean, do you think that's nice to hear?
Yeah.
Given that I am five and don't have money.
Uh no.
I mean You get that that's gonna stick in my head for the rest of my life, right?
Do you I mean do you have any idea about that kind of stuff?
Like the stuff that you say that I'll I'll remember for the rest of my life.
You see you telling me that one second, my wife is just calling me.
Uh huh.
I'll be right back.
I'll be right back.
Okay, I'm back.
No problem.
So yeah, because it's interesting, Dad.
I'll just tell you, like so you're gonna get old, right?
And maybe you'll want me to take care of you when you get old, right?
I mean, that's kind of the deal, right?
Uh kids.
Now, do you think if I say to you, well, you know, I mean, I might be interested in taking care of you, but the problem is you can't pay me.
Would you think that's reasonable?
Sorry, can you repeat that?
Sure.
So, Dad, when you get old, you're gonna want me to take care of you, right?
Maybe take you in or or help you with your expenses or health care or drive you to the doctor, or things like that, right?
Mm-hmm.
Now, do you think uh if I were to say to you, uh no, I'm not gonna do any of that, Dad, because you can't pay me five thousand dollars a month to do that?
Um would you think that's reasonable?
Uh well you'd get uh you get your inheritance and stuff, so I kind of would pay you.
Yeah, but let's say for some reason you didn't have money, you know, like I don't have at the age of five.
Let's say for some reason you didn't get money.
Or are you saying that the only reason I would take care of you is to get a hold of your money?
That you'd have to bribe me to want to take care of you.
That I wouldn't do it out of any care or affection towards you.
I would only do it for the money.
Like a whore.
Yeah, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be very nice.
It wouldn't be very nice.
You understand that that's just more fog, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Right.
I mean, if if some father said to you, really good parenting is not paying attention to your five year old because he can't pay you for your time.
Would you agree with that?
Or would you think that guy was kind of a monster?
Uh kind of a monster.
So you get that you're kind of being a monster.
Right?
Yeah.
So what do you and you say you had a good childhood?
Does a good childhood produce this kind of mentality?
Uh no.
So basically, Dad, all you've been doing to me is lying.
Lying and lying and lying and lying and lying.
Oh, you'll be able to figure it out, son, even though I haven't been able to figure it out.
Oh, you should just not let it bother you, though I let everything bother me.
Oh, I had a great childhood, but you didn't have a great childhood.
Oh, I'm just a quiet man, even though I'm a public speaker and lecturer.
Next thing you're gonna do is you're gonna tell me, Oh, I don't have time, although you probably work only ten to fifteen hours a week, right?
She's gonna lie to me.
So do you get how much you lie, Dad?
Uh a lot, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's why I was terrified to come and talk to you, Dad.
Right?
Because I didn't want to see.
Jeez, kind of what a filthy liar you are.
Thank you.
That you just make up anything in the moment to get away with not having to answer any difficult questions or have any reasonable standards, or actually be asked to pay time care attention and provide affection towards your children.
Quick question, Dad.
After this conversation.
Just out of curiosity.
Do you still give yourself a five out of ten?
Uh I'd give myself uh a zero.
So the five out of ten was also a what?
A lie.
you Why do you think you lie all the time?
Why do you think you lie all the time?
Um because if I tell the truth, I'll realize how miserable I am.
Oh, not miserable.
That's kind of selfish, Dad.
Pretty narcissistic in my humble opinion.
Why do you lie all the time?
It's not about you.
Um I realize how miserable you are.
That's right.
You'd realize how miserable your laziness and inattention is making others feel, particularly your helpless children who never chose you as a father.
Right?
You'd realize just how selfish you are and how little love you have for the children you chose to create and keep in the house.
Yeah, it would be like uh it'd be like hell.
Yeah, I'm afraid we're now not in the five or the zero, but in the minus territory, right?
Yeah.
So why do you have such a overtanned raisin of a heart, right?
Why are you so cold that you need to be paid for any kind of love or attention?
Um I don't know much about his childhood.
Um so uh I'm not really sure.
Well the answer would be that nobody cared for or invested in him, which is why he responds to power as a professor rather than love as a father.
Yeah.
Right.
We we get love or we want power.
Which is why those who tend to be the most interested in power or obsessed with power over others tend to be those who are the least loved or the most cruelly treated as children.
So Dad.
How do we fix this?
I mean, based upon the assumption, which is valid and fair, that I'm not gonna become a millionaire who can pay you a hundred bucks to want to spend time with me.
Um I guess I should uh I should apologize to you and go to therapy.
Yeah, see he knows.
He knows.
Okay.
I think we can stop there.
Uh unless you want to continue, and I just wanted to know what your thoughts, experiences, and impressions were of that role play.
Which was great, by the way, you did a great job.
Thanks.
Yeah, it's um he was such a he is him, he's still alive.
I don't talk to him anymore, but um yeah, just a really um dull and and not present person, to say the to say the least.
Um and yeah, I think that is that is the the fear is that i it would be such a a tedious and revealing conversation to to have and I sort of avoided um having meaningful conversations with him even when I was in the you didn't avoid it.
Um I couldn't, yeah.
Yeah, I didn't know.
Yeah, that's why it's saying I avoided going to Mars.
Right.
Yeah, and I I don't think the conver I don't think conversation would have got I think he might have gotten angry too.
I think he might have, if he was in a certain mood, he would have, you know, had some sort of rage.
Oh, you start to touch the essence of this narcissism.
And I, of course, just using this as an amateur term, this bottom to selfishness.
You start to touch the root of that.
Oh man.
Selfish people are so full of rage, it's like the the gravity well of Jupiter.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I did feel like um you know th sadness for for myself at that age and um Yeah, just so yeah, a lot of a lot of rage myself too, just that um like I I'm so engaged with my daughter and and so interested in what what she's doing and what she's uh thinking,
whatever it is, I don't I don't know yet because she can't talk much, but um and it just really incomprehensible to me how how he could just be like so disengaged and he's also I mean sorry to interrupt, but he's his um his uh Selfish people cannot speak to children on the children's level.
Yeah.
Right, because that requires that they surrender their own particular thoughts, impressions, and preferences to that which is best for the children or the child, right?
So um it was wild just how absolutely age inappropriate his language was.
Did he ever meet your daughter?
No.
Okay.
And what um sorry if we talked about this a decade ago.
Um what was the story of uh you not seeing him?
Um no, I um I stopped talking to him in twenty seventeen, and then I kind of refooed and then um defood again when um I got married.
Oh yeah, that's like uh, hey, I should get back together with an ex-girlfriend, and then like three days later you're like, oh, that was the X part.
Yes, I remember now.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh it was kind of it was kind of like that.
Yeah.
Um Yeah, so I stopped talking to him just because I I was so miserable.
Um and then I started being happy again, and then I talked to him again, I started being miserable again.
So um yeah.
So once I got married and uh I didn't and my wife sort of gave me some feedback on on my parents, both of them, and um helped me to to defo again.
So I mean obviously I'm very sorry that it came to that, but I can completely understand the um can completely understand the impulse uh and the decision.
So okay, so let's get back to to your daughter.
Um she is going to meet kids who are dysfunctional.
She's gonna meet adults who are dysfunctional.
I mean, she's gonna have to have a job and like I I'm sort of in a privileged position, maybe this is the case with you as well.
I'm in the privileged position, I don't have to have dysfunctional people in my life.
But I didn't just leap into that out of nowhere.
I had to work my way through the maze of dysfunctional people to to get to where I am.
And I assume that your daughter is gonna have to because if she's not exposed to dysfunctional people, then she's gonna be exploited by them because she'll draw up without an understanding of them.
Like, you know, like you have to have the virus for your immune system to recognize it and fight it, right?
And so the inoculation as kids is there's gonna be dysfunctional people around dysfunctional kids and adults, and then they they see that and they process that and then they can avoid them as adults.
Does that make sense?
Yes, yeah.
And I think if I had to sort of write go down to the right the root the root of it, which could be correct or not, and obviously let me know what what you think it's your life, not mine.
But I think you are projecting your own isolation as a child onto your daughter.
So what I mean by that is your big issue was not being pushed, but being unable to have a conversation with your parents about it, right?
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Now your daughter, because you guys are close and connected and it's wonderful, your daughter is gonna be able to talk to you about negative experiences she has with other kids, right?
Yes, yeah.
In fact, she will be eager to talk to you.
She'll say, Dad, Dad, like this crazy thing happened, right?
And you will I get you will talk for hours about these things.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're pausing there.
Maybe you don't believe me.
No, no, I I do.
You do, okay.
I'm not trying to do it.
No, I was having like a feeling like it's a nice thought to have long conversation with her about that.
Now here's the amazing thing.
Is that because your daughter has an open line of communication with her parents, I'm sure it's both you and her mother.
Because your daughter has an open line of communication with her parents, she will not be picked on.
The reason you were pushed if malevolence was involved, the reason you were pushed, and I don't know how bullies know this, but they do.
The reason why you were pushed was because you couldn't talk to your father about it.
The fact that your daughter can talk to you about going on socially.
She will not be picked on.
I mean, she may be excluded, she may be ostracized, but she's not going to be picked picked on or aggressed against in that way.
Because she's going to come and talk to you, and then maybe you go and talk to the kid, or maybe you go and talk to the parents and that kind of stuff, right?
And they know that.
I don't know how they know.
But that's we don't have to know, but they do.
It's body language, it's eye contact, it's posture, it's something like that, right?
So it will not happen.
What happened to you will not happen to your daughter.
I mean, I'm as close to guaranteeing this as I can guarantee anything.
Her experience is not your experience, will never be your experience.
And if I mean, and and when she does see, she will see dysfunction, and you will talk about it, and maybe she'll experience some, and maybe it'll be I don't know, ostracism or something like that.
But you will talk about it, and you will get closer and she will understand the world better, and it will be a positive experience.
Her childhood is nothing like yours.
And it will not be a negative experience for her to have a negative experience.
Because she will learn how to deal with it, she will talk it out, she will realize she's supportive, she will get good advice.
The only negative experience is a child fundamentally is isolation.
And she's not isolated, right?
Yes.
So because you're connected, she cannot have negative experiences.
She can have difficult hiccups in here and there, right?
But she cannot have negative experiences because you are connected with her, your wife is connected with her, and she knows that she's supported and loved and treasured, and she will be listened to and she will receive good advice.
And she's not at the mercy of what happens to kids who are separated from the adults and isolated, right?
Which is where the predation happens, right?
I mean the lions don't go for the baby zebra that's in and around the ad like in among the adults, right?
It goes for the baby zebra that's separated.
So don't don't you know, and it's tough, right?
But don't mistake her childhood for yours.
It's uh it's a whole different thing.
Yeah, I like what you said about um negative experiences not being negative experiences, because if I think about my own life, um if someone's like an asshole to me at work or something, I almost find it funny now.
Whereas if I was like closer to my childhood, it would have been to maybe like it would have like sent me reeling or something like that.
No, no, if you were still isolated.
If you didn't have anyone you could talk to about it.
If if you were still isolated, and of course a lot of adults remain isolated, right?
So you can go home, you can talk about it with your wife or your friends, maybe you're if you're close to your sister or whatever, right?
But you have at least with your wife, you can come home and talk about it, right?
And you can get sympathy and feedback and compassion and and all so it's not a negative experience because it actually reinforces the quality of the relationship you have with your wife, right?
Right.
Right.
The only negative experience is isolation.
Well, and you know, I don't know, cancer or getting hit by a bus.
But you know, in general, like social stuff.
It doesn't matter what happens to you.
It only happens what matters to you if you're isolated because we're social animals, right?
So the purpose of corrupt people is to separate you from others.
So that you I mean, this was the whole purpose of deplatforming me, it was to separate me from others.
So it is the separation and the isolation that breeds the anxiety.
And I think you seeing the dysfunction of your own, like the dysfunction that happened in your own childhood and feeling the anxiety and stress that came with that, you're saying, My gosh, that's gonna happen to my daughter if she experiences negative things, but it won't because she's close to you and close to her mother.
So not only is she almost certain to never be targeted directly, but also whatever dysfunction she experiences or sees will bring you guys closer together as a family.
So your stress was not because of the dysfunction.
Your stress was because of the isolation, and she's not isolated.
Thank you.
Right.
And she will experience challenges because you're raising her rationally and peacefully, which means she's gonna bump up against other kids, as you say, not raised rationally peacefully.
Now, just to sort of finish up here, um for me because I have an only child, right?
So for me, when I would go to a playground or a play center or a swimming pool or wherever we would be going to play, um I would not uh uh uh let her play alone.
Yes.
So I I wear my track pants, right?
I wear my comfy uh socks and my grippy socks, and we go in and we we we play together.
And then, you know, I mean I mentioned this many years ago when we would go to play centers when my daughter was quite little, I mean, it would be my daughter and I playing and all of the kids trailing after us because not only was I an adult who was willing to play, but I was a male, which was even more rare, especially in the sort of daytime matriarchy uh of of the phone addicts, right?
And and so we'd be there playing, and the kids would all want to come play with us, and because I would organize these games, and then my daughter would tell them, I just want to play with my dad, and and you know, I I I just told her honestly, I said, Look, I I'm gonna have a tough time saying no to these kids.
I mean uh, you know, and and it bothered her, and I I get that.
And some sometimes she would just say that no no kids, uh it's time for my me to play with my dad.
Which was good.
And she was stronger than me in that way, but that's fine.
So you you go in and you you play, and because you're in there playing, your daughter will not be aggressed against.
So, you know, you roll up your sleeves, you get in there and you play.
Now, when your daughter gets older, maybe she wants to go and play with her friends on her own, that's fine, because she's already got the foundation, right?
And the the the connection remains.
And because the connection remains, she's not gonna get aggressed against again, maybe ostracized from blah blah blah.
But so with regards to the playground, you just you go and then you play.
And she will not be aggressed against because you're there.
So you would you would play with her the whole time up until she had a strong preference to to play by yourself or with her friends.
That's right.
Okay.
Absolutely.
100%.
I mean, what am I am I gonna just send my daughter?
I mean, it's a for me it just seemed like the saddest and loneliest thing.
Just send my daughter to go and play what?
Do what?
Climb around.
No, we we played, I mean, originally it was kitty games where she'd you know, she'd be a lost little kid, and then I'd have to rescue her, and then it was dragon game, she'd be a baby dragon, and and then it was uh uh tag games, and then it was rounders, and and then it was like uh we would do this thing where we would climb around the outside uh of the uh of the playground uh and and we'd also do like can we time it, how fast can we do things and you know, fizz various physical challenges and you know, we'd we'd play with the other kids and and all of that.
And uh yeah, I mean I mean, as an only child, and I'm not saying you your daughter's gonna be an only child, but uh for my daughter as an only child, we're gonna just send her off to go and play on her own.
That's the saddest thing.
And what am I gonna do there?
Right?
I mean, I'd much rather play than sit on a phone.
It's more fun.
And so when we would be in a pool, uh, we would organize uh um games like um Marco Polo and so on.
We did this uh smog says, which is kind of like Simon says, where you know uh smog absolutely forbids children to run at the pool pretending to be frogs jumping into lava, right?
So then the all the kids would be frogs jumping into lava or you know, butterflies that that f flap and then get hit by an arrow.
And you know, so it's absolutely forbidden, and you know, just to make jokes like that, and we could we could play that for like an hour, just come up with crazy scenarios and have the kids uh act them out.
There's another game called colors, uh and anyway, so you just you just get the games going.
And everybody's uh really happy in those circumstances.
And sometimes you meet kids that you want to see again and and all of that.
So um yeah, but just uh just get in there and you know, kids kids are not just supposed to be certainly when they're young, they're not supposed to be just doing things on their own because they don't have the power of spontaneous self-organization at that age.
So yeah, they need they need their parents to organize things.
Yeah.
So it's somewhere between like the total free range kid and the the lat uh the uh the helicopter parenting thing it's somewhere.
Helicopter parenting helicopter parenting is when you try to prevent your kids from experiencing anything negative and hyper control them out of anxiety.
It's not helicopter parenting to play with your kids.
No, I'm saying it's somewhere in between those two things.
No, like you're saying that one of the polls is helicopter parenting.
Like you move when you start to play with your kids, you're moving towards helicopter parenting.
That's not that's not what it is.
Okay.
Playing with your kids is just enjoying their company and enjoying um the games.
That's not it's not helicopter parenting to engage with your children.
It's helicopter parenting to be anxious and say, don't do this and don't do that, and and you can't do this, and and and be careful and and like because of your own anxiety and and desperately wanting your kids to never experience things to never experience anything negative.
That's helicopter parenting.
Playing with your kids is nothing like that.
Because it's not based on anxiety and it's not based upon hysterical overprotection.
Right, right.
It's it's enjoying their presence rather than trying to avoid negatives.
Right.
And yeah, they're the they call it bubble wrap parenting.
Oh, your kids always have to be encased in bubble rap and can never experience anything negative.
And honestly, that that tends to be uh maternal, right?
And and there's nothing wrong with that when the kids are very little, right?
They can't exactly navigate stairs themselves when they're learning how to walk.
So you absolutely have to protect the kids from negative experiences and then and then not, right?
You know, um my daughter, when she learned how to ride a bike, was very keen on riding her bike with no with no like not touching the handlebars, right?
Made me kind of anxious.
And you know, anxiety is higher when you have just one kid as opposed to a bunch of backups.
But uh but of course I had to say, well, I I I did that when I was a kid, and I didn't even wear a helmet because there were no helmets when I was a kid for biking.
So she's better off than I am.
And and what am I supposed to do?
I'm supposed to say, well, no, you can't do this, and okay, you manage your own anxiety.
You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do the other at all.
Then they just grow up fearful and anxious and less fun.
And so it doesn't do them that much good.
So it's like as you move towards spending more time and interacting more with your kids.
I don't want you to have, well, I'm moving more towards helicopter parenting.
And so I shouldn't do it too much.
No, you you cannot overplay with your children.
Because when they want to stop playing, they'll they'll tell you, right?
If if they're tired of the one a nap, it's like daddy, I'm tired of wanting that or whatever, right?
And so you can't overplay with your children.
I mean, when you're having fun with your wife, do you do you want to tap out?
No.
No.
Can you can you have too much time with your wife?
Uh no.
I mean, not really.
I mean, I have to, you know, I went this morning to go and work more on my novel, and then my wife joined me at the cafe, and we had a nice hour long walk together and so on.
So there's times when you have to do things apart from your wife, but I don't sit there and say, Oh, I'm spending too much time with my wife.
I so it's the same thing with it's even more true with parents, particularly when there's no sibling to play with.
Uh kids love to play, and you want to be the parent that they enjoy spending time with them playing.
And It's not like the more you play with them, the more you're being a neurotic helicopter parenting.
That's that's not that's not the case.
Like it's sort of like saying, well, the more time I want to spend with my loving wife, the more the closer I am to being a stalker.
Like that's that's not a thing, right?
So that that's why I was sort of pushing back.
Like it's somewhere in between complete neglect and helicopter parenting.
It's like it's not even on that continuum at all.
It's like saying where does anarcho capitalism sit in the left right spectrum?
It's like it's not even on the spectrum.
Like it's not is it is it more communist or more fascist?
It's like, no, it's not it's not on that spectrum at all.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Uh anything else that you wanted to uh to mention?
How how's the convo been for you?
Nice to talk to you again after a cozy decade.
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
I I appreciate it.
Um I was curious if you do you remember this um you you told a story, it was a long time ago, um, about how a kid at the playground said something uh mean to your daughter and then you kind of sat down with the kid and had a long conversation with within the um how do how do you uh how does that sort of um like you you talk to the other kids and uh Well it's funny because it was actually the other kid who wanted to talk to me.
Uh because I think she recognized that I would be someone good to talk to about these things.
Um so sorry, what was your question?
Uh I don't know if I have a question.
I maybe I don't know if you're maybe you could retell that story or um uh what what we could I could like learn from from that.
Well yeah, I mean so yeah, I mean a kid said something mean to me and uh I you know sorry to my daughter and I I put a stop to that right away.
I said that's like nope, that's not that's not gonna happen.
That's not what that's not how we talk.
And uh then she wanted to talk to me further.
And she wanted me to so we went to a place uh and and we talked about it, and I just said, Look, if you say mean things, nice people won't want to spend time with you.
And the only people who will want to spend time with you are other mean people, then that's no that's not gonna be any fun for you at all.
And so really work to try and be nice and be positive.
And you can disagree with people and you can even get mad at pe with people, but you just can't call them names, right?
That's that's not fair, and that's not nice, right?
And and I sympathize and you know you've got a a very passionate, you know, strong and what do they call it?
Strong emotions got strong emotion.
Strong feelings.
I think feelings is uh more age appropriate.
I think you've got strong feelings and I think that's great.
And you gotta you know, it's like having a horse that's runs really fast.
You've got to figure out how to write it well.
And so uh so yeah, we had a good good conversation about it.
And uh of course, it's not like that's some magic wand that can fix all of these problems, but I think she appreciated it in the moment, and I think that certainly helped improve things for a while.
But again, if there's something going on at home that's gonna generally undermine that as a whole, but yeah, you just it's if you see something mean, it's just like nope, that that that's not gonna happen.
That's not that's not how we're gonna do it.
That's not a thing.
And then um, you know, if the kid wants to talk, I mean I was I was happy to talk.
And then I also talked to the parents.
Uh but yeah, that's you know, you your kids have to see that.
That that's that's not that's not gonna happen.
Right.
And and it may not be that you have any control over the situation.
It may be that you have to leave the park, right?
Which is fine.
It's not like you're running away, right?
I mean, if it's a forest fire or whatever it is, it's you you're not running away because you're a coward.
You just so uh but but then you have good conversations uh with your kid about like how did you experience it?
Why do you think that happened and what are your thoughts and you can have great conversations about all that kind of stuff?
And um get get closer thereby.
So you you your closeness to your kids is not dependent upon the kindness of strangers.
In fact, uh unkindness of strangers can bring you closer.
Right, right.
All right, well, I I really appreciate it, Stefan.
It was nice talking to you.
Um we actually did speak um a little bit ago with me and my wife on a private call.
But um so it's been a bit less than ten years, but how was the effect of the private call uh helpful and good for you guys?
Uh yeah, it w it was great.
Um it's helped a lot.
And um yeah, we'll probably speak with you again sometime uh soon just to iron out a couple other things, but yeah, it's it's been it's been great so far.
Appreciate it.
Well, keep me posted about how things are going.
Uh nice to chat with you again.
Do give my very best wishes to your wife.
And I will uh stop the call here.
I've got a call in happening uh in a little bit and I've got to get some food.
So my daughter's made these fantastic energy balls that uh I really like to snack on.
So alright, thanks everyone so much.
Free domain.com slash donate to help out the show, to to uh really I really do appreciate that.
It's uh very important to me and and I I dare say to philosophy.
So free domain.com slash donate.
Thanks everyone so much.
Have a beautiful afternoon.
We will talk to you Wednesday night, if not before.
▲
Export Selection