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Sept. 5, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
06:29
Consciousness Without Form...
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Okay.
Now, as a concept, is the idea that there's consciousness without material form, at least in this universe.
Is that fair to say?
Okay.
Now, have you ever had a conversation that does not involve consciousness?
In other words, do you think that I'm a teapot or a soap dish or a bubble or something like that?
Or I don't know, Bell Dauphin's bathwater or something like that, right?
So you you and I are having a conversation because we both accept that we have rational consciousness, we share the same language, we are having a very productive conversation.
So there's nothing self-contradictory about what we're doing.
And the idea that I would be having a conversation with someone where no physical consciousness was involved would be completely weird, wouldn't it?
Like can you imagine if if I was somehow, like let's say you were calling from next door, right?
And I'm like, oh, you're next door, I'm gonna come on over, and it went over, and there was just a computer that was turned off, and nobody was home.
Like that would be kind of weird, right?
Like I'm having a conversation with a consciousness, but no one's there.
Like that would be I would be like, okay, this is a joke, right?
Because I can't have a conversation that doesn't involve physical human consciousness.
Does that make sense?
Yes, it does.
Okay, so if people are gonna say, oh no, I'm having a conversation with consciousness for which there is no material form, I'd be like, yeah, that's not a thing.
That's like saying that um there's gravity without any mass, or there's light without a light source.
Like that that's just not a thing.
That's just not something that is that is real.
All consciousness requires material form because consciousness is an effect of the physical and material brain.
And we know that because we never have conversations with any kind of consciousness that we can test that does not have a physical brain as its source.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Okay.
And then people also say I'm having conversation with an all-knowing God, right?
Well, that's pretty wild, right?
Because all knowing, I mean, that no that's knowing everything, past, present, and future, right?
Now that's very testable.
So if somebody says to me, uh I'm having a conversation with an all-knowing entity, I'd be like, wow, that's pretty cool.
Um, I had a dream last night, what was it?
Because God would know, right?
So that's a test.
Somebody says, I have direct access to all knowing consciousness, to an all-knowing omniscient, all-knowing consciousness, be like, yo, I had a dream last night, what was it?
Now, do they ever give me the right answer?
No.
Well, would that make any sense?
If if somebody says, I have access to all knowing consciousness, say, oh, well, here's a tough question.
Or um, uh, what was what was my first birthday cake made from?
Right?
God would know that.
Or uh, what is the price of Bitcoin going to be like tomorrow uh at 12 p.m. Eastern Standard, God would know that too, right?
So if somebody says, I have access to omniscience, then you would simply ask them to ask that omniscience to answer a question that that person couldn't possibly know, right?
That would pretty easy test, right?
And has anyone who claims to have access to omniscience ever been able to answer a question that they couldn't possibly know?
No.
No.
So that's that's a test, right?
So you have consciousness without material form, which is impossible, and you have a claim of a direct access to omniscience, which is never a proven.
And you have both omniscience, which is knowing everything, and omnipotence, which is all powerful.
Now, the problem is, of course, if God knows everything, past, present, and future, then God can't change anything.
Because if he can change it, he can't know it.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Like, if I was in prison, I'd know where I'd be tomorrow.
In prison, right?
Because I can't change that.
But I I'm not in prison, just a mental prison man, but I'm not in prison, so I don't know exactly what I'm gonna be doing tomorrow, right?
Now if God knows everything past, present, and future, then God can't change it.
But if God can't change what he's going to do or anyone is going to do, then he's not all powerful.
So if God knows everything, he can't be all-powerful.
If God is all-powerful, can do and change anything, then he can't know for certain what everything is going to be.
Uh if God says we have free will, like you and I are morally responsible for what we do because we have free will, but God knows exactly what we're gonna do, do we have free will?
No.
It's like like if if a train goes down the tracks from uh Chicago to Detroit, right?
And there's a train track, right?
Okay, so the train goes from Chicago to Detroit, can it go anywhere else except from Chicago to Detroit or back again?
It's on a train track.
Right, can't go anywhere else, right?
So if I say to the driver of the train, the conductor, no, the conductor is one in the back, the driver of the train, I can't remember the name, there's some technical name.
So if I say that the train is leaving from Chicago and going to Detroit, and I say it's totally immoral if you end up in Detroit.
You you've got to go on this train track, but it's totally immoral.
You're an evil person if you end up in Detroit.
Does that really make any sense?
No, because God no choice.
There's a train track, right?
So does it make any sense to morally condemn people who have no choice over what they do because God knows exactly what they're going to do?
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
I'm sorry.
I'm listening to you.
No, does it make sense to condemn people for that which they do not choose?
Yes.
Okay.
So hang on, so but if God knows everything we're going to do, do we have a choice?
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