Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - Learn Dating Red Flags! Twitter/X Space

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Aug. 12, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:34:55

Learn Dating Red Flags! Twitter/X Space

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	I would really, really appreciate that.
	Help support the cost of what it is I'm doing and help spread philosophy to the world.
	Free Demand.com.
	That's it.
	Enough pitch.
	Let's get to your topics.
	I, of course, have a topic refined, granulated, separated, cut with a credit card into sniffable lines, all ready to go.
	But, of course, I love hearing from you guys.
	Philosophy is in its best state a conversation.
	That's really what I love about what it is that I do, is that philosophy was originally a conversation, as you know, Socrates, basic founder of modern philosophy, didn't write things down.
	We only know what he was supposed to have said through Plato, who I believe is not the most reliable witness as a whole, but it's a conversation.
	And it is in the conversation that we get to the truth.
	Truth is not a solitary occupation.
	Truth requires us to stare at it from different angles, to refine, to whittle, to turn, to plane, to spin, to bring all the power tools of reason and evidence to bear, to carve out the beautiful shape of the truth, and I really appreciate everyone's participation in this conversation.
	I mean, what I've been thinking about today is friendship.
	Because there's something I remember this in the show Friends, and I talked about this on my show many years ago.
	Just how Rachel, the character Rachel had a baby, I can't remember the circumstances, but basically the baby was not, well, it was without father.
	And all of her friends were like, don't worry girl, we got you, we're gonna be over, we'll help you, you won't go through this alone.
	And that's a well meaning lie.
	That's a pleasant lie.
	It's a nice lie.
	It's, you know, maybe everyone means it in the moment.
	But I guarantee you, when your friend has to get up for work the next morning and your baby's up all night with colic, they ain't coming over.
	You'll get a little here and there, but they're not coming over.
	And, you know, studies have shown that friendships decay over the course of your life.
	I mean, personally, I mean, I don't have a typical life.
	We could say neurologically atypical life.
	However, you want to take that.
	But I don't have any contact with anyone I knew before I was thirty.
	Nothing.
	Nothing.
	It's a shame, really.
	I would love to know how people's lives turned out, although I will admit to checking up on people from time to time over many moons.
	But I think sort of mid thirty was my big switch over.
	I mean, I have good friends now.
	And we appreciate each other.
	We get along well.
	We're there to support each other.
	But man alive.
	There is no substitute for for family.
	And studies kind of bear this out.
	People change friends, they move away, and your friends get busy.
	Like if you're, especially I don't know if you've been through this process.
	But what happens is your friends, I mean, if they're smart people, everyone who listens to this, I put in the top 1% of intelligence.
	So if you're smart people, then people have careers, they have to move, they travel a lot.
	And you just kind of lose touch, even with sort of all the modern communications and connections technology.
	But the biggest thing, of course, that happens to friends, if you're a single person, the biggest thing that.
	happens to friends is, yes, that's right, they get married and they have kids.
	And if you haven't had kids, man alive, let me tell you, it is a totally different planet.
	I remember driving home with my daughter, lo, almost seventeen years ago, driving home with my daughter, doing the usual new parent, eight miles an hour drive home, and taking her into the house with my wife, and knowing that nothing ever was going to be the same again because why?
	well, seems to be fairly important to keep them alive.
	And keeping them alive and keeping them entertained and keeping them happy and keeping them healthy is, well, it's a lot.
	I wouldn't trade it for the world.
	It's been, along with marriage, the greatest experience of my life.
	But life's just not the same.
	And you are consumed by parenting.
	Parenting is the greatest opportunity we have in this life to escape the petty ego of, well, how am I doing?
	And how am I feeling?
	And what do I want?
	And what's next for me?
	And what am I going to achieve?
	And I, me, me, I, oh!
	It's kind of exhausting, right?
	And parenting is our biggest and greatest shot to climb out of the doomed spaceship of ego and launch yourself among the stars of continuance, of eternity, of the cycle of life, of the four billion year march from the single-celled organisms to the glorious heights of conceptual ability that we now inhabit.
	You know, I used to think it was pretty cool cool to write a book and it is i'm working on one right now but it's infinitely wilder and more powerful to create and shape a human brain.
	So what happens, of course, is if you're a singleton and, you know, you lose.
	your friends in successive waves and, you know, be prepared.
	Be prepared.
	You lose your friends in high school because you're all scattered to go to college or move away or do something, right?
	And then you lose your friends in waves, or at least it diminishes when they get girlfriends and boyfriends, or for that odd friend a sex doll, or for that really odd friend a tiny sex doll.
	And then you lose your friends in another wave when they get married.
	Because when they get married, it's not just, well, you now have a spouse, but you have a spouse, you have their friends, you have their family.
	family and you kind of get swallowed up in a whole new life.
	But the biggest one, of course, is when they have kids.
	When you have kids, it's impossible, I mean, I'm fairly good with language, but when you have kids, it's kind of impossible to understand how little you have in common with people who don't have kids.
	Like, you worship your child.
	You are dedicated to your child.
	And it is an amazing thing because it is really, really good and healthy and rare.
	these days it's really good and healthy to think about other people.
	Oh, it's glorious to get out of the maze of distorted mirrors known as self reflection and just go out into the world and do some good on the planet.
	Now when you get married, you think about the happiness of your spouse.
	I mean, honestly, it may sound cheesy, it may sound like a cliché, but my wife and I have talked about this.
	We wake up in the morning and we basically say, how can I make your day better?
	What would you like to do today?
	What would make you the happiest?
	And so on, right?
	I mean, we had a kind of funny conflict last night where we were going to go and see a movie.
	And it was either the Liam Neeson Naked Gun remake or, I will admit to having a fairly low rent, somewhat trashy preference for dinosaur movies.
	I suppose I'm just trying to recapture that Jurassic Park magic, you know, that high.
	Back in the day, everybody remembers if you're old enough, when you first saw Jurassic Park in the 90s, just like, "Why?
	Now, she kind of preferred the naked gun and I was a little bit more partial to the dinosaur movies and, you know, sometimes we just do rock, paper, scissors.
	And if I get rock, paper, scissors, I do what she wants.
	If she get rock, paper, scissors, she does what I want.
	Because it really doesn't matter.
	It really doesn't matter.
	the happiness level of whether we'd see Naked Gun or the glorious, perfect, amazing, fantabulous dinosaur movie, it doesn't matter because...
	And if she wins the Rock, Paper, Scissors, and we go and see the Dinosaur movie., she's 10% less happy at seeing a dinosaur movie, but she's 20% happier at seeing me enjoy a dinosaur movie.
	And then she has to deal with me pawing around and growling all the way home getting back to my roots.
	Dino chicken legs is the way to roll.
	so you devote yourself to the happiness of someone else and that's a beautiful glorious thing like with social animals our happiness should never be solely based upon that which we alone prefer because we are then bypassing all of this amazing wiring that we have within us evolved over hundreds of thousands or millions of years of being pro-social tribal animals that at least half our happiness is wound and bound up in the happiness of those around us.
	And you can only get at max to 50% happiness focusing on what's best for you.
	The remaining 50% of happiness that you're capable of is based upon the happiness of those you love around you.
	This is not something I figured out on my own.
	This is something my wife taught me just by being the glorious person that she is.
	And, you know, I will admit to, you know, maybe being a little bit up my own butt with regards to self-regard.
	But, I mean, she really did teach me just how much fun it is to bring happiness to others and that really did complete the circle for me and when you have kids you just get so into your kids you're so fascinated by your kids they consume your thoughts so much that i have not had a single solitary thought for myself in almost a quarter century because everything goes through what's best for my family what's best for my kids and you know of course what's best for
	myself But the great thing is about having people in your life that you trust and love is they can watch you back.
	You know, like you've, I don't know if you've ever been in those kind of cranky, cantankerous relationships.
	It's close to being a word cantankerous, isn't it?
	But if you've ever been in those relationships where it's win lose, I'll get my way, then you get your way, and all that kind of stuff.
	But that's no, that's no fun.
	That's kind of diminishing.
	It doesn't really work out.
	So I don't have to watch out for my own happiness.
	My wife watches out for a good portion of my happiness, I watch out for a good portion of her happiness, and we both focus on our daughter's happiness, and her daughter focuses on her peers.
	Ha ha ha, that's fine, that's fine, that's natural.
	She's a teenager.
	It would be kind of weird if she wasn't.
	So I'm just kidding.
	She also cares about our happiness, but she's very into peers at the moment, which is exactly right.
	You don't want just you don't want your teenager just home staring at you.
	Now, if you have a spouse you love, you have a kid or kids, then you're no longer the person that you were when your friendship started in your teens or your early twenties or however long you had friends before you got married and had kids.
	Like, I'm not the same person after I got married.
	I'm not the same person after I became a father.
	And thank Heaven for that.
	I mean, it was fine being mister of self regard in my sort of teens and twenties.
	It was sort of a survival thing and there's nothing wrong with that.
	Get your career going and all of that.
	But Lord above, if I'm still the same.
	same person that would be kind of tragic so what happens is you change and grow I think it's growth and your friends who are single they kind of stay the same and you just have less and less in common in particular because you're so fascinated with your kids and your life is just consumed with your kids the best you can do is it's like a dimmer switch you can turn it down but not off so you can think about the things but they're never far from your thoughts.
	For my wife, you know, I think about her a lot because I love and care about her.
	She thinks about me a lot because...
	So it's more caution, fear and concern for her, but it's definitely love for me.
	And that's a big plus.
	What's he doing?
	Is he trying to cook?
	Oh, gosh, the burnt house down.
	So your friendships now, of course, it could be the case that your friends and you, you know, as we used to do, you kind of go through the same life paths together, right?
	So we evolved in this tribal situation where you and your friends would be out there choosing mates in your late teens kind of about the same time.
	No real birth controls.
	You start having kids, you know, kind of around like the same time.
	and you go through life on the same path, in the same patterns, in the same time frames.
	But that's not how it goes anymore.
	We have less than no community.
	We have like anti-community.
	Like anti-community.
	Ah, you know what?
	I just lied to you all.
	Oh, how wretched.
	There is one person I'm still in touch with from my early twenties.
	My apologies.
	My apologies.
	Voldemort friend with no name.
	But yes, there is one person I'm still in touch with from my early twenties.
	But he has a kid.
	So now everyone.
	goes through everything at different times.
	And you lose what you have in common.
	It's almost like you have a friendship.
	You kind of grow up with people and you all speak the same language because you grew up together.
	And then what happens is you kind of move to another country called marriage and then you move to another planet called children and you just don't speak the same language as your friends anymore.
	And you can struggle and through, but you try and push through the incomprehension.
	But I'll be straight up with you.
	I mean, I'm not trying to diss anyone.
	I'm just telling you my honest experience.
	Maybe you've had different experiences.
	But.
	But, you know, when you're part of the great cycle of life and you're responsible for keeping tiny tender minds and bodies alive and happy and healthy and flourishing, you know, your single friend's concerns, how to be nice about this, your single friend's concerns don't seem as quite a high priority.
	You know, if you've got a kid who's going through a health crisis and your friend who's having some trouble at work, it just, you know, the whole purpose of life is to raise the stakes.
	And people who don't raise the stakes fall behind those who do raise the stakes.
	I mean, you're supposed to learn more, right?
	You're supposed to, I mean, you don't stay in kindergarten forever.
	The whole point is to raise the stakes.
	So, unless you happen to have friends in the same physical location who are going through the same kind of things, and of course, you also have to have compatibility and values.
	I mean, I wouldn't let my daughter hang out when we were younger, right?
	I wouldn't let my daughter hang out with kids whose parents hit them or spanked them.
	So, you know, heaven forbid you have a friend that you choose based on proximity and coincidence and, you know, a shared sense of fun.
	But if you have a friend who then becomes like some hyper authoritarian parent, well, that's another problem.
	Or, you know, if you have friends who, I don't know, say it's tough, it's tough way to put it.
	If you have friends who have what I would conceive of, and, you know, perhaps you would conceive of as self-created problems.
	You know, there are things that happen to you in life that are problems that you don't create, and then there are things that you create in life, the problems that you do create.
	So if you have a friend who just decides to date the wrong woman, you know, she's pretty, low rent, lusts in.
	And then, oh my gosh, the pretty, pretty girl turns out to be kind of unstable.
	I got the last stable one, friends.
	So, you know, that's a little bit of a self-inflicted wound.
	You know, it's interesting to go watch boxing, I guess, if you're into that kind of thing, but it ain't so much fun to watch someone just punch themselves.
	Not much of a sport there.
	And when you take on more and more in life, you end up being, you know, there's injustice, there's corruption, there's things that you genuinely have to battle that aren't self-inflicted.
	And when people are just making bad decisions, you know, like, and I'll tell you this man.
	man in your fifties, you know, I'm in my last year of my fifties in the next month.
	So in your fifties, you also see a lot of people who have self-inflicted problems based upon bad health decisions in the past.
	You know, people who drink too much, people who don't exercise.
	Occasionally there are still smokers, although they're pretty rare at my age.
	The people who maybe they exercised too much, gained weight.
	And it's, oh, I got problems.
	And it's like, you know, there's real problems and then there's self-inflicted problems.
	And the whole purpose of life is to replace self-inflicted problems with real problems.
	So another thing that happens as you age.
	Sorry for the person, I think it was Jay.
	I'll be done in a sec if you want to raise your hand to chat again.
	I'm almost done.
	But, you know, there is no substitute for a family.
	You know, when I was sick, it was about 13 years ago, I was sick, yea, verily almost unto death.
	And, you know, it was my wife who took care of me.
	And, you know, friends were sympathetic and, you know, cared and all of that, but they had their own lives.
	And you just need someone in your corner.
	You need to be in someone's corner.
	There's no substitute for marriage and family.
	Marriage and family grow and intensify over time.
	Friendships in general decay and diminish.
	And especially if you have friends who are kind of moving on with their lives, getting married, having kids, you will almost certainly end up isolated.
	Or you'll end up with other people who are too oddly constituted to really maintain any kind of beneficial relationships over time.
	And it's funny, you know, because there's been a whole series of, you know, I just call everything psyops these days because I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious.
	But there's been this whole psyop that's been going on, I mean, since I was in my 20s.
	And it's targeted at women, although it certainly does.
	include men, but it's really targeted at women.
	And that is the, you know, boys come and go, but friends are forever.
	Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
	Your girlfriends will see you through everything in life.
	Right?
	The show was called Friends, not Spouses.
	And there has been this whole syup.
	And it's just another one of this depopulation syups.
	You know, boys, they'll come and go, but friends are forever.
	It's like, no, that's the exact opposite of the truth.
	Statistically, according to social science, significantly reproduced data analysis.
	No, no, no, no.
	It is boys, girls, men and women, spouses, co-parents, they stick around.
	Friends, come and go.
	And, you know, if you talk, last thing I'll say, and then I'd love to take your calls.
	I'll take your calls if you want now, if you want to poke your head over the parapet, I'd be happy to hear your call.
	But if you're honest with yourself, and maybe you've escaped this, maybe you have.
	But I think if you're really honest with yourself, and if it hasn't happened to you, honest with other people.
	Everyone's had that one friendship that completely flamed out for reasons that never made any sense.
	You know, just one thing happened, one hiccup, one problem, and then boom!
	Years or decades down the drain.
	All right.
	Let's get to Jay.
	And I went outside and smoked myself, Jay.
	What's on your mind, my friend?
	Don't forget to unmute.
	Going once, going twice.
	Can't hear you, bro.
	Hello?
	Yes, sir.
	Go ahead.
	Hi.
	Thank you for having me, bringing me up in the space.
	So, yeah, I have a question.
	So, my question goes like, you just made mention about you being your twenties, headphone and everything.
	Like, do you get anxious like, oh, I'm getting I'm in my mid twenties.
	I don't have a job yet.
	I'm not married.
	I'm worried about buying a house just like the new generations currently now because think of the younger generation like the Gen Z, right?
	They have this high level of anxiety, like not knowing what to do, what career to chase.
	Should I be in a relationship or is marriage really worth it?
	Should I be having kids?
	Should I be buying a house?
	I mean, we just find ourselves in this whole, you know, constant level, high level of anxiety, not knowing where to go, not knowing the choices to make and I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I don't I just want to know if maybe it was the same in your era when you were in your twenties or I mean, if maybe there was just a bit of like difference too.
	So I don't know.
	Thank you.
	Well, I mean, I don't want to make this about me after just talking about others, but I'll sort of since you asked me sort of about my experience in my twenties.
	So my experience was that I knew that I was destined for great things.
	I knew that from when I was a little kid.
	I knew I didn't know how.
	I thought it was originally, I mean, I've tried a bunch of different things, right?
	I tried poetry, playwriting, acting.
	I tried academia, business, and then of course for the last twenty years, this public philosophy podcast.
	But I always knew that I was destined for great things.
	Even when I was writing novels, if I cut a particular section, I would make sure I kept it, placed it aside because I knew that people would be interested, you know, scholars and all that down the road.
	And I remember when I first, when I wrote my first novel called The Jealous War, which I wrote in my teens, actually I had started a novel earlier called By the Light of an Alien Sun, but it only got about a third of the way through when I was like twelve.
	But I was like the words were flowing, the ideas were flowing, it was like right away.
	And I was like holy crap, that's quite a fire hoseose of language to have within me.
	And this is why I'm very humble about these kinds of things, because I did not earn this ability.
	I sat down to write and the writing all poured out as it does now.
	I sit down to write.
	I do 3,000 words and it's easy and fun.
	And I never believe it's going to happen when I sit down to do it, but then it always happens.
	So for me, I was casting about in various different things because there was a door to greatness with a lock and I had a bunch of keys.
	and I just had to keep trying different keys until I opened the lock to the future.
	So for me, I wasn't particularly worried about, I was not married or in a long-term relationship.
	And I felt no real anxiety about the future because I just felt, well, I'll keep trying stuff until I get the right key in the lock and it's all going to work out.
	And I'm sure people have that perspective where it doesn't work out.
	I had that perspective and it really did work out.
	It's like my whole life was just waiting and preparing for podcasting the internet, you know, what it is that I do now where I can talk to the world without any gatekeepers.
	Now, again, not to make this about me, but because I always had a deep foundational belief that I was just going to be important or break through or have some significant value to the world no matter what.
	And again, I thought it was in the business world for a while, but business world's pretty corrupt.
	I just didn't really have the stomach for it.
	But so I didn't particularly worry about things because I just felt, look, I just, all I have to do is keep trying things.
	All I have to do is keep trying things.
	And I would try things and I would find out that it was corrupt.
	You know, the theater world was socialist, communist and utterly corrupt and of course increasingly anti-white anti-male you know all the usual tropes and academia was petty and corrupt and business world was slightly less petty but even more corrupt and i just needed to be in an environment where i had control i was in charge which is why i sort of been entrepreneurial since my late
	twenties i mean i did dip in two occasions to work for other people but so for me which is not a um a sort of typical story it was kind of different but for young people, I mean, you're facing a lot of obstacles, honestly.
	And it's easy to look at the things, and I sympathize with this.
	It's easy to look at the things that aren't working or are impossible.
	It's not as easy to look at the things that are amazing and possible.
	So when I was younger as a young man, it was easier to get hired.
	I mean, that sort of old economy, Steve, you know, lost my job, walked across the street, got another job, you know, that was.
	kind of a thing except for during the recessions like in the early 90s i just couldn't get work to save my life nobody was hiring i ended up doing like odd jobs i weeded gardens i moved furniture.
	Some family had an age relative visiting and hired me to take her around places which she was kind of bitter about, which, okay, and I cleaned cars and, you know, just all kinds of crap.
	So you just have to keep trying.
	You know, your future is on the other side of door.
	There's a lock you didn't make, but you got a whole bunch of keys.
	And you just have to keep trying and not give up.
	Sure, there are things that are harder now.
	than they were when I was younger and there are things that are easier now than when I was younger when I was younger there was no internet no remote work no nothing like that so there's a lot of, a lot of pluses.
	Is there something that you wanted to add to that?
	Yes, yes.
	My final question to you is I just would like to know your maybe opinion about free will and unconditional love, like from your own perspective.
	Like what do you think?
	Do you think like human being, we as humans have free will and are we able to express or give unconditional love?
	Sure.
	I mean, so free will, I've got a whole three-part series on free will I did.
	you know, 20 years ago.
	So I'll just touch on it very briefly here, but you can go to fdrpodcasts.com.
	I've got a whole bunch of debates about free will.
	I've got a whole series on free will.
	So free will is our ability to compare proposed actions to ideal standards.
	In other words, is this the right?
	Is this the good?
	Is this considerate?
	Is this thoughtful?
	We can compare our proposed actions to ideal standards.
	I mean, one little example, my wife and I went shopping before the movie yesterday.
	No, after, let me get my facts straight, after the movie.
	And did we return the shopping cart to the right place?
	Well, it's nice and thoughtful to do that.
	And it's one of these sort of tests of basic social consideration and ethics.
	And so, yeah, we did.
	So it's good to return the shopping cart.
	And it's productive too, because if nobody returns a shopping cart, the price of groceries goes up because the store has to hire people to go and get the shopping carts and bring them back to the right place.
	So it's both pro-social, it's kind of nice, and it's also productive.
	So we do have the capacity to compare proposed actions to ideal standards, and nobody can argue against that.
	Because if a determinist comes along and says, We don't have the ability to compare proposed actions to ideal standards.
	standards then they are comparing a proposed action to an ideal standard, which is to have a debate about whether you can do that while already assuming that that is the case.
	Because he's saying, well, you should compare your belief in free will to an ideal standard called there's no such thing as free will, and you should change your mind accordingly.
	You can't debate against someone who believes in free will without accepting this definition.
	It's tricky, but it's factual and it's real.
	So yes, we do have free will, but free will is also kind of like a muscle.
	And so to achieve maximum amounts of free will is kind of like being able to bench, I don't know, 500 pounds or run a marathon.
	You got to work up to it.
	And of course, we're born without free will, really, because babies don't have the capacity to compare proposed actions to idealal standards.
	They just cry and laugh and all of that, which is delightful and wonderful, and they shouldn't do anything different.
	And free will, a parent's supposed to, or ideally parents should, encourage the development of free will among their children.
	So free will is like a muscle.
	So, I mean, from a very early age, I was giving my daughter as many choices as were practical at the time to help her develop her muscle called free will.
	And people who procrastinate, people who delay, people who don't make choices, people who just go with the flow, and so on, and just respond to social pressures, COVID, well, they're losing the muscle called free will.
	And, you know, I talk about this with regards to my mother, who was very violent.
	And by the time I really met my mother, I didn't meet my mother when I was born because I didn't really have an identity when I was born.
	But when I really kind of met my mother, you know, she was already in her mid to late 30s and had already made a number of bad decisions.
	And, you know, the worst of which I think was avoiding.
	any kind of self-knowledge and therapy and self-reflection.
	So she had no functional free will by the time I met her and it took me a long time to sort of realize that.
	But it's kind of like if you want to go jogging with your friend, right?
	And your friend is 400 pounds and is only gaining weight, well, they're not going to go jogging with you.
	They can't.
	Like they literally will probably bust a knee or have a heart attack or something, right?
	So maybe if your 400 pound friend who's gaining weight, you know, kind of wakes up and turns around and ends up losing the weight and, you know, has the surgery for the excess skin or whatever they do.
	And he gets the stomach stapled or goes on that creepy Ozempic biochemical witchcraft or something.
	But maybe at some point down the road your friend might be able to go jargon with you, but it's a long way down the road and there's a huge amount of work that they have to do.
	So people who've made bad decisions or and the worst decision really is no decision, they've lost the functional capacity for free will because it's a muscle.
	It's a muscle.
	And you know, people who are really unhealthy, they can't even climb five flights of stairs.
	And people who are really healthy can race up it.
	I mean, I remember when I had an employee when I was a manager in the software industry and this guy was like crazy athletic and he's like, race you up the stairs.
	We had a fire drill in the building I worked in one day and he's like, race you up the stairs, boss.
	And I know I was somewhat healthy, but you know, this guy just I just ate his dust.
	I mean, he just powered up like some cooked up centipede on helium balloons.
	And, you know, I was so, so if he was like, you should come exercise with me, I'd be like, nah, I think I'll probably just hold you back.
	Thank you.
	But, so, yeah, exercise your free will, make choices and learn to live with bad choices, because nothing paralyzes free will like a fear of the consequence of bad choices.
	But there's no, there's no choice worse than no choice in the long term.
	In the short term, not making a choice is a benefit in the long run, it's disastrous, right?
	So you ask that girl out, maybe she says no, maybe she rolls her eyes, maybe she scorns you, in which case she's really telling you that your judgment sucks.
	You know, your judgment sucks.
	And then you should probably figure out how to make better judgment, because if you ask a girl out and she's super rude, then she's not a nice person and you shouldn't be asking her out just based on looks.
	That's a dangerous game to play.
	So, but asking the girl out, getting scorned or rejected, rolling it into a ball and, you know, painting it at your rejection is better than not asking the girl out at all.
	So you just, you just have to keep exercising.
	Every day, you have to keep exercising that choice.
	Now, with regards to unconditional love, sure, we're absolutely capable of unconditional love.
	That's for babies.
	My daughter did not have to earn my love when she was a baby.
	I loved her unconditionally, without reserve, and dedicated myself to making her life as positive and happy as possible.
	And that's a wonderful state and a lovely state.
	And it is, of course, something that is not just human beings.
	Like most mammals are fiercely attached to their young and will do a lot to protect them.
	storks, not so much.
	They take the run to the liver and dump it over the side of the nest, but most mammals are very attached.
	So it's a sort of biochemical attachment.
	It's not quite the same as adult love.
	So unconditional love is a beautiful thing, and it is largely biochemical attachment and wonder and beauty of newborns.
	And you don't disapprove of newborns.
	You shouldn't ever disapprove of newborns because they're just doing their thing, and they're delightful in their Now, when people are in the world, people say to you or to me, I want unconditional love as an adult, well, they're saying.
	they want to get paid, but they don't want to work.
	It's like the welfare state.
	People want to get paid, but they don't want to work or earn it through conformity with the charity's requirements or something like that, right?
	Like there used to be charities in the Victorian era that would take care of single mothers, but the single mothers would have to stop drinking and sleeping around.
	So unconditional love as an adult is just Viking exploitation.
	That's all it is.
	Just people who want to pillage you.
	And they promote this idea, well, you just got to give and give and give and never expect anything in return.
	It's just unconditional love.
	And there, especially if you didn't have that as a baby, then you have a hole in your heart the size of your heart, which needs to be filled with, quote, unconditional love.
	And then when people have these sorrows from their childhood, most people just spend the rest of their lives avoiding legitimate grieving and trying to replicate what they didn't get as children in adults, which turns horrible, manipulative, exploitative, destructive, and often abusive.
	So if a woman did not get unconditional love as a baby, she's got a great sorrow in her heart.
	Now, her mother and father who didn't give her unconditional love as a baby, they don't want her figuring that out.
	And she will find it very painful to figure out how woefully deficient and neglectful her parents were when she was a baby.
	So what she does is she says, Well, I've got this vague existencial anxiety, negativity, stress, whatever it is.
	But I just, I just, I just got to find someone who's going to love me unconditionally.
	And oh my gosh, everything will be better.
	It'll fix everything.
	And so she goes on rambling and prattling about unconditional love.
	And especially if she's, you know, physically attractive and around a bunch of shallow guys, then, yeah, they'll promise her unconditional love.
	Yeah, sounds great.
	And she then demands unconditional love.
	And it can happen the other way.
	We're just talking about female demand.
	She demands this unconditional love to.
	To fix the sadness, the hole in her heart, the size of her heart, the anxiety, the depression, all the stuff that's left over from being neglected and abandoned as a baby, or at least not loved.
	And a guy says, yeah, yeah, hey, you're hot, I'll give you unconditional love.
	But then he finds her neediness kind of annoying.
	And then he senses deep down that he can't fix her issues because he can't go back in time.
	and be a loving parent to her when she was a baby.
	So she doesn't get what she needs.
	He starts to resent and feel like this is a hole with no bottom, a quicksand with no exit strategy.
	So he begins to withdraw and then she re-experiences the same neglect and abandonment and avoidance that she experienced as a baby and then she gets really angry.
	You were supposed to fix me and you're not fixing me.
	What the hell's wrong with you?
	You're emotionally distant.
	You're emotionally unavailable.
	No, I just can't fix your baby issues because you ain't a baby.
	And you need to go through that legitimate suffering in order to have your heart open to adult love because adult love is an exchange of value.
	And people hate this kind of stuff and I frankly don't care.
	I have to say what is true and right and good and if it bothers people, it bothers people.
	And the people who it bothers and they run away from it, I'm not putting you, of course, dear listener, into this category, but the people it bothers who run away, well, they run away.
	That's fine.
	That's fine.
	You know, if I'm the first guy to discover that smoking kills, I'm going to go out there and say smoking kills and people are going to be really mad at me because they're addicted to their cigarettes, but I'll save some people from death by COPD, lung cancer, emphysema, and God knows what.
	So unconditional love is a beautiful thing, parent to child, parent to baby.
	But as adults, we have to earn and we have to exchange and we have to trade and we have to provide.
	When I was a baby, I opened up my mouth, got me a German nipple, and got me some food.
	That ain't happening now.
	I mean, I keep asking.
	You know, you get decorators into your house and you ask them to hang some German nipples with feedbacks, and they just give you all kinds of funny looks.
	Unless they're German.
	And then they understand.
	But you don't get that as an adult.
	You know, there's a funny thing where the socialists are always saying, well, you know, capitalism is brutal and terrible because you have to work.
	And it's like, no, that's life.
	Babies don't have to work.
	Toddlers don't have to work.
	But yeah, adults, we have to work.
	In order to consume, you or someone has to produce.
	In order for you as a baby to consume breast milk, your mother as an adult has to consume food.
	And in general, that means your father has to go and earn the daily bread that gets converted into breast milk that gets converted into babies that get handed over to school and converted into self-hating leftists.
	But yeah, unconditional love is a demand for the unearned in order to avoid legitimate suffering as a child when you were a child.
	It will never be fixed by anyone even claiming to give you unconditional love and it will always destroy relationships, even if you stay together.
	Asking people as adults, asking other adults to fix what your parents broke is just a way to try and get your parents off the hook and you will forever be unsatisfied, angry, resentful, blaming, needy.
	It's going to be a roller coaster.
	Almost all, this is not my formulation, right?
	all mental dysfunction results from the avoidance of legitimate suffering, not self-inflicted suffering, legitimate suffering.
	So I hope that helps.
	Yeah, love its adults is love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous.
	If you're virtuous and you see a virtuous person, you'll feel positive towards them if there's sexuality and romance and physical attraction and in general possibility of marriage and children involved, then that's romantic love.
	If you're virtuous, you love the virtuous and you hate the evil.
	The evildoers.
	And maybe you even hate more the people in the middle, right?
	The people who won't make a decision or, if forced to make a decision, choose evildoers.
	Back to COVID.
	Anyway.
	So if you're virtuous, you love virtue and you love the virtuous and you hate the evildoers.er, you hate the virtuous, and you have a grudging respect and are willing to enter into a temporary alliance with other evildoers, but you will never experience love.
	Well, thank you for the great questions.
	I appreciate that.
	Oh, thank you very much.
	Appreciate it.
	Moi the boy.
	I can't believe the syllables I get to, or theoretically have to, utter.
	In these situations, Moy the Boy, if you would like to...
	I hear rustling.
	Are you okay?
	From the bushes.
	Go.
	Yeah.
	We all do as babies.
	Anyway, go on.
	Okay.
	I assume you can hear me good, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay, perfect.
	Hey, uh, always it's an honor to speak with you, Stefan.
	What you're talking about today really resonates with me because I actually just got out of the most significant relationship I've had in my life, and uh, it's it's really interesting to see,
	you know, with everything that you, uh, taught me and stuff, just how true it is, how if people don't, you know, have a good relationship with themselves and also when I, well, in my situation, when it comes to women, if they can't, if they have the wrong expectations of your partners, like healing them and healing them from their traumas, right?
	It's never going to work out.
	And with this relationship, I remember telling her things like, hey, I'm willing to work with, you know, like your issues.
	And I would recommend her your books and your writings.
	I even try to get her to listen to some of the podcasts.
	And she would always react very angrily to a lot of the stuff that you would say.
	She would say that you were unfair to women and try to like put more value on the emotions that she had.
	And, you know, it just ended up creating a lot of issues because, like, I would tell her, like, hey, you know, you expect me to, um, be able to demystify your female brain, but it's, it's inappropriate in this relationship because I'm not a psychiatrist.
	And, um, she eventually, no, she was very good in the beginning, but eventually she became to resent a lot the fact that I, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't really help her with those issues.
	And eventually, things fell apart.
	And I just have to say, I'm very thankful for everything that you share, all the stuff that you distill very clearly, because it's made this breakup a lot easier.
	Because although it's been the best relationship in my life, I realized that this person doesn't have the values that I need to have a healthy relationship.
	So I want to thank you and just wanted to share that how true everything that you're saying is.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you.
	I'm very sorry.
	How long ago was the breakup?
	It's going to be a month here recently.
	Yeah, here on the 13th.
	And how how how long did you go out for?
	We were together for a year and eight months.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	And how old are you?
	I'm 27.
	Wow.
	Can you tell me a little bit about how you met and how you did discover the issues that she had?
	Were they evident from the beginning?
	Did they creep up over time?
	You know, she is she was the smartest woman I've ever dated and she portrayed herself.
	I can't share too much information, obviously, but she portrayed herself very intelligently in the beginning.
	And she hid a lot of stuff, um, because she she wanted to have me emotionally attached before she revealed a lot of stuff.
	And although I did ask, she gave, um, um, um, unclear answers and kind of hid things.
	And at six months, she revealed a lot of stuff that, you know, I told her like, Hey, if you would have told me this at the beginning, I would not have dated you.
	But, you know, I love you now.
	And as long as you're willing to put in the work, I'm here for you.
	But, yeah, no, she was she was really smart.
	She was older than me as well and more successful actually at the at the her career was just taking off.
	So the way we met, to answer your initial question, it was while dancing, and I don't think I would have ever had a good chance at her, but I looked pretty cool just like doing moves and candlesticking the ladies, which is like raising them up in the air.
	So that's how we met, you know?
	I looked pretty cool that night.
	Was she significantly older?
	I was 25 and she was 27.
	Okay, okay, got it.
	And again, we don't want to tell tales out of school, but I'm I'm going to just you don't have to confirm anything, of course.
	But my guess is that if she revealed childhood trauma to you some months into the relationship and it was the kind of stuff that you wouldn't have dealt with had you known in advance, you know, I would assume severe neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, something like that.
	And again, you don't have to confirm it, but were there any signs of dysfunction that you noticed early on before she told you about these things?
	Yes, there was.
	And I decided to be charitable just because she was the in my experiences.
	She was definitely the smartest one, so I chose to be charitable and see how things would go.
	But there was issues, the general issues you talk about, there was right, okay.
	Now her, let's get to the important thing, which is her relationship with me.
	I'm just kidding, but she dislikes you, Stefan.
	So no, no, I get that.
	Now, I mean, this is a funny thing too, right?
	Is that I don't take any of that personally for the simple reason that, look, I'm just out here making arguments, trying to supply them with data, interviewing experts, and I do try to self-correct where possible.
	And somebody wrote to me the other day after I talked about India and China being significant contributors to ocean pollution, and they sent me an article, seems to be valid, which is that it's India and Africa.
	I think China's worse with air pollution, but when it comes to ocean pollution, it's India and Africa that seem to be the biggest culprits.
	So, you know, I put that out as a correction.
	And, you know, when you're pulling things from memory, occasionally you'll get things wrong.
	So, important for those kinds of things.
	So I'm just out here making a case.
	And when people get angry at me, it's almost never them.
	It's almost never them.
	In other words, so let's say I'm making some arguments.
	And a lot of what triggers people is about sort of family issues or parent issues, right?
	So if this woman was mistreated as a child, and I'm talking about holding parents to account, and she gets angry at me, almost always what's actually happening is she is being taken over by her inner man.
	Mother usually could be could be father, but usually inner mother.
	So if she was mistreated fairly horribly as a child and then I talk about responsibility, parental ethics and sympathy for children and holding parents to account for the wrongs that they do because, you know, parents hold children to account for the wrongs that they do.
	So why wouldn't the reverse also be true because parents have infinitely more freedom and moral capacity than children do?
	So it would be like saying children are morally responsible but adults are not.
	Like that would be crazy, but that's kind of how society kind of weirdly tries to function these days all over the world.
	So when I talk about parental responsibility and sympathy for children and holding parents accountable, well, if she had bad parents, she's got alter egos in her head, which are internalized parents, which she used to survive her parents' mistreatment.
	And so, you know, if you're unjustly imprisoned you've got a guard who beats you whenever you say the word pepperage then you've got to internalize that guard's mindset and avoid saying the word pepperage in other words the guard's hatred of the word pepperage has to be internalized within you so you and then anytime you think about saying the word pepperage you'll get sweaty and avoidant and tense and you won't say it right as a way of internalizing your abusers or neglectors so that you can survive and get to adulthood in other words people
	who didn't do kids who didn't do that had a lesser chance of making it to adulthood because they kept annoying and provoking their parents so she's got an inner parent who doesn't want to be held to a Of course, look, bad people, it's not comfortable.
	I'm not saying you don't know this.
	I'm just saying this to the world as a whole.
	Yeah, you know what?
	Kind of a thing, right?
	It's kind of a thing.
	Bad people don't like to get caught.
	I don't know why this is so, you know, if you've robbed a bank, you don't want to get caught.
	You rob a bank and then on the way out, you're like, oh man, there's all these security cameras and I didn't wear a mask.
	Oh man, you're angry and upset.
	People who cheat on tests don't want to get caught.
	People who lie don't want to get revealed and exposed as liars.
	And parents who abuse don't want to suffer negative consequences for being abusive.
	And of course, for parents, neglect is the big one.
	Neglect is the big unspoken one.
	So it's not too shocking that if you're raised by criminals, when a law man comes sniffing around, you get kind of dense.
	Because your whole life being raised by criminals, I'm not saying this woman's parents were criminals, it's just an analogy, right?
	But your whole life being raised by criminals.
	Yeah, if you're raised by criminals, what do your criminals say?
	Don't tell anyone, shut up, hide the booty, hide the loot.
	If anyone asks you, say nothing.
	Don't talk about anything.
	Don't talk about what you saw.
	Don't talk about what you did.
	Don't say anything.
	Right?
	If you're raised by criminals, you're programmed and trained and bullied and threatened and bribed to shut up and not talk and not say anything.
	So when the law man comes sniffing around, you get kind of tents.
	Natural.
	It's natural.
	And I am the law man with regards to neglectful and abusive parents.
	And I say this with great sympathy.
	Listen, criminals are better off if they get caught.
	They're better off when they get caught because they take their punishment, learn their lesson, hopefully become better people.
	So criminals hate being caught, but generally they're better off if they're caught, because they get to stop doing all these terrible things.
	I mean, to take an extreme example, a serial killer is better off after he's caught.
	Not just his victims, but he himself is better off.
	So, yeah, criminals don't want to get caught, but it's often the best thing for them.
	People who cheat don't want to get caught, but if they get caught, then hopefully they'll stop cheating over the future course of their lives.
	Liars don't like to get called out.
	and exposed as liars, but if they suffer negative consequences for lying, it's their best chance at becoming a more honest person.
	So when she's listening to me.
	I'm the law man sniffing around her parents' crimes, so to speak, again in this analogy.
	And yeah, so her parents are like, shut up, stay quiet, hate that guy.
	He's bad.
	Don't listen to him, right?
	Sure.
	I mean, it's not complicated.
	Criminals want to get away with stuff.
	A lot of people mistreat children.
	And when I talk about holding criminals to account, guess what?
	Criminals don't like me.
	I mean, you know, it's kind of a cliché.
	you know, when, when I, in movies and TV shows, right?
	When a, when a cop gets killed.
	I just saw this in, in Reacher, right?
	A cop gets killed.
	I was like, well, you know, he did put a lot of.
	really bad people in prison, man.
	So they're gonna come out and they're gonna be hunting for him.
	It's like, yeah.
	People who commit crimes don't like the law.
	They don't like lawmakers.
	So when people get mad at me, I mean, I understand it.
	I understand it.
	I mean, if you can imagine being on the run, right?
	You're on the run, right?
	And every time a cop car runs by, you're tense and angry and upset and you kind of hate the cop car and you're sure.
	I mean, that's not complicated.
	So I assume it was something like that.
	So sorry for the bigger side and all of that.
	And how's it, was there a particular incident that caused the breakup or was it a sort of more slow decay?.
	It was a, like You mentioned alter egos, right?
	And it's interesting to see when she would get emotional or there was a the mother had dysregulated her, right?
	Because she would have a negative situation with the mom.
	And I would kind of take the brunt of that dysregulation because she can't really confront the mom, right?
	It was I could see it was really difficult for her, understandably so.
	But, you know, like, it was interesting to me because I've taken, you know, I've taken some college philosophy classes, including propositional logic.
	And when I listen to you, you make very valid arguments with, you know, like you, you make proofs for your arguments.
	And in a lot of situations when we would get in arguments, right?
	Well, I would and this might sound a little tedious, but I think it's a really good way to work out an argument with your partner so you don't go in circles and stuff.
	Well, I'll bring out the whiteboard and we would kind of write it out and, you know, make diagrams and stuff like that.
	And eventually, the only way that I could win, uh, or that, yeah, that I could win the argument or for my feelings to be validated was to put her up against, you know, um, verbally speaking up against, uh, the wall, like basically don't, you know, like, uh, create a situation where she can't really weasel out.
	And I'll tell her like, you know, like it's, it's important to not obscure, uh, the conversations and bend reality, because if you're smart enough to bend the situation and the reality to only, uh, only how it benefits you, right?
	Like you're smart enough to understand or to give a fair account of what happened and what I did wrong or what you did wrong, right?
	And I told her that I know that because because I've heard the arguments she's had with her mother, I've known that the mother is very easily like that.
	And I told her it's not a good way to be because, you know, like in a marriage, right?
	Where we're dating seriously, honesty is crucial.
	And if I can't trust your judgment and the way that you're describing things, like you're going to be a dangerous person for me to marry.
	And initially she was pretty open to it.
	But then there were like certain situations where she would break the trust in a big way.
	For instance, she purchased a I think motorcycles are dangerous and she liked them, right?
	And she purchased one without really talking to me and put me in a situation and I told her, like, you put me in a situation where I can't, I can't even advise you.
	I couldn't say no.
	And that's kind of where I really started being less charitable because after so much benefit of the doubt and so much care, and I put a lot of effort into being a good man in the relationship.
	Well, at this point, I kind of can't trust you if you're making decisions like this behind my back.
	And seeing how those alter egos were kind of like alternate from, you know, very, very unagreeable and then very agreeable once I put so much energy making the argument and how this is really important, I just kind of realized she wasn't really reliable.
	I started pulling away the...
	the sympathy, right, and the empathy, and that just completely started running the relationship.
	Once I stopped being a healing factor, a cooling factor in the relationship, it was just a matter of time before she heated up and broke the relationship.
	So that's one example that I can share at the top of my mind.
	So it was interesting.
	I'm again, I'm really sorry about that.
	You've given me a lot of strength.
	So, but yeah, I definitely, you know, emotionally, like, it's like, oh, I miss the relationship.
	But logically, I have to be like, you know, Stepan would be really.
	he would be disappointed if I, uh, if I got back on this.
	So you're giving me a lot of strength and I appreciate you for that.
	Well, thank you.
	And I will say this too, that dating is a job interview on behalf of your future children.
	It's not about your sex.
	It's not about your comfort.
	It's not about your happiness in the moment.
	What you're doing is you are auditioning or giving a job interview on behalf of your future children.
	Now, this woman, or I don't want to pick on her because of course she's not in the conversation doesn't get to sort of plead her side.
	So a woman in a dating relationship, you have to see how does she handle power.
	I mean, you really have to see how people in relationships handle power.
	Because for both men and women, monogamy is giving someone power.
	I'm only going to date you.
	I'm only going to kiss you.
	I'm only going to make love with you.
	I'm only giving people the monopoly and monopolies have power.
	When you become attached, when you say, I love you, you are giving people power.
	over you.
	There's nothing wrong with that if they handle power well and wisely and are sort of sensitive and delicate in their use of that power.
	I mean, my wife knows deeply how much of my happiness is bound up to her approval.
	So we're very delicate with the power that we have over each other.
	You know, when you're in a relationship, your lips, I guess figuratively and literally, your lips, you're right up against the other person's ear.
	Right up against the other person's ear.
	And you've got to whisper.
	Because if you yell and you're that close, it's painful, like it hurts your ears, it can harm your cochlear, your hairs.
	It's unbearable when you're that close.
	You need a very light touch when you're very close.
	So when you date and you give people your heart, you are giving them power.
	And how they handle the power with you is way better than how they handle the power with their kids.
	So if they're handling the power that you give them responsibly with due care and concern and sensitivity, if the people you give your power to use their power over you wisely and benevolently and lovingly, that's great.
	They parson that test.
	If they use their power over you in a negative way, they won't admit that they're wrong.
	They escalate, they yell, they're tense, they're intransigent.
	Well, that's how they handle their power over you, which is way less than the power you're going to give them over the kids if you have kids with them.
	And if they mishandle or abuse the power they have over you, they will absolutely for certain mishandle and abuse the power they have over your children.
	So dating with an eye that this is a job interview for your future children is really essential.
	But we get lost in sex, love, last hornyness, all that kind of thing.
	And I mean, if this is how she was with you, I mean, how she how would she have been with your with your kids when she has infinitely more power and they can't leave?
	Yeah, it was kind of, well, scary and also interesting to, because if I would have, you know, been less trained in, you know, science being principled.
	Trained in being principled, like trained in argumentation and philosophy.
	Like logic and objectivity and so on.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Yeah, because I'm very good at, you know, like, creating that framework of solving the argument or being honest, right, of like keeping things truthful.
	And I think, you know, because she was very beautiful, very smart, very accomplished, right.
	And I think for most men, it would have been really difficult and it was difficult for me as well because like I was very charitable because I, you know, I saw that she was intelligent, but that's, you know, like when you're intelligent, especially when.
	Well, as a woman and you and women know this, like they're smart enough to obscure and fog up the situations in their benefit.
	And it's like, well, if you're that smart to do that, like you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying and to, you know, have a little bit more control of, of, sorry, let me rephrase that.
	Basically, you're smart enough to understand and the fact that I have to put so much time and so much effort into clarifying the situation and putting you up against the wall verbally so you act and say things truthfully.
	I just, you know, that's why towards the end, I started distancing myself.
	And once she, you know, like, because I told them, like, you know what, like when I'm around you, I feel like you're making me go crazy.
	And, you know, I'm right now in college, I was doing a difficult summer class and I'm like, I need to focus on this because this is going to be my future career.
	And that angered her a lot.
	And I could see that very clearly at the end of the relationship, because the last day that we talked or saw each other, I think she really wanted me to beg.
	beg for, you know, like, hey, let's continue the relationship and stuff like that.
	Because, like, we're breaking up and she's saying, honestly, you're the best man I've ever dated.
	You know, like, I think you're going to be a wonderful husband.
	I'm sorry we couldn't, you know, work things out and this and that.
	And I was like, well, you know, if I felt that way about a woman, right?
	If I thought she was like the best woman, she's going to be total wife immaterial.
	I wouldn't be, being this difficult, and I wouldn't be trying to manipulate her emotions to get her to, you know, bend the knee.
	Because, like, I want a willfulnessful, a willful, loving relationship.
	And that's that just kind of clarified that I'm like, yeah, this, this, um, I don't think this woman might be really smart, but she is not honest.
	And that's, and I'm not sure if that's more dangerous.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, because if she's, if she's like a lawyer or verbally skilled or argumentative in that kind of way, then her intelligence actually becomes a danger.
	I mean, if you if you're going to have someone beslelling from your company, you want them to be as dumb as possible, you know, to just grab fists full of fifty's in front of a security camera.
	You don't want someone who's a total genius who shaves off fractions of a percent of a penny, you know, when you can't detect it to save your life, right?
	So intelligence is wonderful if the person is virtuous, but if the person is not committed to virtue, is not humble, cannot admit fault, then intelligence becomes incredibly dangerous because they can gaslight the shit out of you and you're like, Which way is up?
	And they can weave these very convincing webs of language that trap you like a trapdoor spider or something like that.
	So yeah, it's, it's rough.
	It's rough.
	And can you think of a time in the relationship?
	This is the big test.
	Big test.
	Can the person admit when they're wrong?
	Or they just, it's this grim freaking battle, this fight to the death.
	I'll never admit.
	I'll gaslight.
	I'll change.
	I'll counterattack.
	I'll storm out.
	I will never admit that I'm wrong.
	Did you have that experience in the relationship?
	One thing I can tell you, because I was good at basically putting her up against the wall where she has to say the truth because it's either or or right either like hopefully that makes sense what I just said um but um against one of the whiteboarding stuff and you okay yeah well but then you know like even if you record someone, and I don't recommend doing this in relationships because it's kind of one side,
	but if you record someone and then, you know, they say, Well, I never said that.
	You play them back the recording, then they just say, Well, you made me say it, or, you know, like they still won't admit fault, but sorry, go ahead.
	Well, one even smarter thing that she would do, right, is the value judgments she would make with her, you know, like the mistakes that she would make.
	They had she would she would basically frame it in like a way where they were more forgivable, more, you know, dismissed and stuff like that.
	So she might say she's sorry, you know, and you're right., hey, you're right, I'm sorry, you know, I overreacted and stuff like that.
	But later, uh, you know, down the weeks, down the months and stuff, um, she'd say, she'd, uh, completely be like, hey, well, you need to let that go, you know, this and this and that.
	And I'm like, no, you actually, oh, so maybe it's a different amount.
	Yeah, Yeah.
	So I've seen this kind of thing before where, let's just say a woman in this case it's a woman.
	So a woman will say, You're right, I'm sorry, but there won't be a principle, right?
	So if, uh, every time someone said the word pepperidge, I started yelling at someone and then I said, Oh, look, I'm sorry, right?
	And then every time they used the word pepperidge, I started yelling at them and then they said, Oh, and I said, Oh, I'm sorry.
	Like, at some point you have to say,, gee, I wonder why the word pepperidge bothers me so much.
	And you have to work to prevent recurrence.
	In other words, if you're at fault, almost always there's a principle there.
	And the principle needs to be dealt with so that you stop being at fault.
	You know, if, if, when I was being trained in tennis, when I was younger, I had a weak backhand and a slow serve.
	So my tennis coach was like, do this, do this, do this, practice this, this and this, right?
	Because the whole point was to get better, right?
	To understand why I had a weak backhand and a slow serve and to work to improve it because if my coach kept telling me to do this, that and the other and I simply didn't do it, what would be the point of apologizing to him for having a weak backhand and a slow serve?
	The whole point is to is to fix things so that they don't keep recurring.
	So if you say, you know, you get mad when this happens and it's you really escalate and then after you work for a whiteboard the crap out of it for an hour or two, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.
	I'm sorry, right?
	Okay, so then what?
	Sorry is not the end of the story.
	Sorry is the beginning of the story.
	It's the beginning of the story because then once you've.
	identified a fault in someone, which we all have, and it's helpful to have people identify them.
	So once you've identified a fault in someone, that should be the beginning of the journey called How do I Stop Repeating This Fault?
	And so I imagine what happened was she said sorry, kept doing the same crap over and over again.
	You kept pointing it out.
	And she's like, Well, you gotta let it go.
	And it's like, Well, I'll let it go when you stop doing it.
	Absolutely.
	And what she taught, you know, when she, six months into the relationship, when she revealed a lot of stuff that broke my trust, because I told her, I was like, Hey, sir, you put me in a vulnerable, like you're a person.
	who has put me in a vulnerable position because now I'm emotionally attached and I wouldn't have dated you if I would have known these things.
	So, like you're smart enough to do that.
	And she's like, I'm very sorry.
	Were they were childhood things or adult things?
	Basically, my, like, you know, I wouldn't date a certain type of woman and, you know, like, um, you can't do that to people because that's predatory, right?
	You can't portray yourself as a, you know, very conservative woman.
	And like, I can understand that you can, like, um, change, right?
	But, um, it doesn't really indicate a lot of, um, change if you.
	If you've done that to me and six months into the relationship, now you're finally being honest.
	It's like, well, I'm in a more vulnerable position.
	And I made that clear and she apologized, but then she continued with the lies and the subversive power dynamics that she was deploying, which was very interesting.
	And listen, I say this with sympathy and I also say this with humility that I stayed in negative relationships a lot longer than you did, so I say this with all due humility.
	But why did you stay after six months?
	What does she have?
	So I, well, one thing is obviously I was emotionally invested at this point.
	I think that would be the greatest factor, but also No, but that's the No, but that's the argument to go, not to stay.
	That's the argument.
	So I'm emotionally invested, that's the argument to get out, because it doesn't get better after that, right?
	It's like you don't become less invested as time goes, you become more invested.
	So cut your loss scenario, right?
	Like if you've, if you've got, oh, I've all my life savings in this stock and the CEO turns out to be a pathological liar, but I'm not going to sell because I'm down some money.
	It's like, no, if this is your life savings, you have to sell.
	Um, you know, I would be willing to go further in detail and like, uh, one of the, um, I'm a subscriber and local so, you know, I'd I'd be willing to go more in detail there because I don't know that's the thing, you know.
	Okay, so the emotional investment was there something else?
	Yeah, yeah, I can tell you in general the like the intelligence was really attractive to me and I thought, okay, well she is, you know, in and with the women I've interacted with, she is the most intelligent and successful, you know, and I thought she was a great, still a great woman even with that.
	I can understand as a woman lying about certain things, right?
	But I decided to, um, give it a try.
	Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on.
	Hang on, brother.
	You know you're talking to a moral philosopher guy, right?
	Yeah.
	I can understand as a woman lying and deceiving someone in order to get into a relationship.
	Yeah, that's not malice.
	We can understand the motives.
	I can understand as a murderer you'd want to hide the body.
	But it's not good.
	I mean, so I'm not sure if you meant I can understand that she would want to deceive me to get what she wants at my expense.
	But I I don't want I don't want to make I want to make sure that we're not transmitting over my channel.
	It's understandable and therefore okay that a woman would do that.
	I agree.
	And I don't think that's a good reason.
	Uh, or to it's not good to give a woman a pass because it could be better.
	So I I agree.
	And I guess, um, you know, the reason I stayed, I I did become more guarded.
	But yeah, I wanted to I I I I believed in her, you know, that's that's that's too vague.
	I don't know.
	I believed in her.
	Yeah, I'm sure she was real.
	I'm sure she's not a Japanese robotic Klingon speaking sex doll.
	But oh, sorry.
	I was just reading my Amazon order.
	So what, what, what do you mean, you believe in her?
	I thought, you know, more than or more than most women, I thought she could change, especially if we, um, got into, you know, like, because I'll talk philosophy to her, I'll talk about, you know, religion and and like, a lot of the arguments for being virtuous, you know?
	So I thought things could improve and they did they didn't.
	So that's And was she religious?
	She definitely, um, you know, our second dates, I took her to church and she definitely definitely seem committed, but I think she used, she wasn't like as committed with the religion, more like, like, because she was smart and she definitely could see that it was in her benefit to have a religious marriage because, well, many reasons, right?
	Um, instead of just like the secular type of marriage where anyone could leave, you know, like she did want a, a long lasting marriage.
	And I think she kind of understood that she has a better chance of a long term, uh, marriage with, um, someone that is.
	religious or a man that's committed to that level of like, hey, we're promising to God that we're going to stay together.
	So maybe she was a Yeah, like she wasn't really, there wasn't too much integrity, but she did portray herself as like, Yeah, I'm I'm I want to get baptized and, you know, like follow these, these things.
	Sorry.
	So when you met her, she wasn't religious.
	She said she was, um, not so much.
	Not so much.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm a little confused.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's not exactly the same as being a little bit pregnant, but did she believe in God?
	Was she, you're a Christian,, right?
	I assume.
	So did she believe in God and was she a Christian?
	Yeah, she would say that.
	Yeah.
	Did she go to church?
	No, not frequently.
	Let's say, did she pray twice?
	Did she pray?
	Did she restrict her behavior to what would Jesus do or try to?
	No, she would only pray with me.
	Okay, and what obligations did her religion require of her?
	Oh, a lot, all the, you know, be, be, be, be, you know, bear no false witness, don't lie, be a good wife, right??
	Okay, So tell the truth and be submissive were were were her religious edicts and did she do those things?
	At the beginning she did step on she was a lot better in the cameleon.
	Yeah, she is she was very I mean, yeah, she was very good at that.
	She was a cameleon lying there in the sun, all things to everyone run, run away.
	I love that song, man, because it's actually kind of kind of true and I'm not trying to make light of your situation, but yeah, cameleons are really dangerous because they're camouflaged, of course, right?
	She was smarter than, like I'm tellve come across except, you know, like, once you're not honest, you can't think clearly.
	So you end up shooting yourself in the foot.
	But she was good.
	She was good at portraying herself as what I wanted out of the relationship.
	You know, she portrayed herself in a good way that was appealing to me.
	Because if I would have known, Oh, you want to ride motorcycles and then she had tattoos and she had an experience.
	She had tattoos.
	Yeah, that she regretted, allegedly, in the beginning.
	Because it later changed to, like, Yeah, I want maybe get another tattoo.
	And I was like, wait, you know, like you said you weren't, you know, like, like, I'm not saying hate your tattoos, but this is not Christian.
	So it's like, things did change with her, that's what I'm saying.
	I mean, it's, it was one little butterfly on the ankle or?
	She had good taste, but um, I don't, I don't remember what she wanted, what else she wanted to get.
	I just, I just know that.
	No, no, I mean the tattoos she already had.
	Oh, I, shoot, I can't, I can't tell you which one I find the most interesting because it could reveal.
	Um, no, no, I can't, but sorry, what, what percentage of her, say, visible skin is visible?
	skin in a shirt and shorts, what percentage of her skin was tattooed?
	She had like five tattoos that could overall be covered, you know, except one on the wrist.
	So not heavily tattooed.
	Not a sleeve or anything.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So let's let's close with this and I really appreciate your openness and of course we can talk more in the donor section.
	But for the young men and young women out there, I mean, you burned, what was it a year and eight months?
	Do I have that right?
	Yeah, unfortunately.
	Yeah.
	So you don't have, you don't have many left in the chamber.
	You can't do this again.
	You can't burn up another.
	Because, you know, it's not just the year and eight months, right?
	I mean, it's the opportunity costs about all the good women who floated through your life while you were entangled with this person.
	And then it's the recovery time, right?
	You got, you know, probably another couple of months, at least before you're even potentially emotionally available to another woman, right?
	Yeah.
	So what are the lessons that you needed to have learned or you have learned that you could also communicate to others?
	Because the best thing we can do with our personal disasters is turn them into do not none shall pass bridges to others.
	Okay, I think the biggest lesson would be that you know, you're not anyone's therapist in a relationship.
	It's inappropriate to try to, you know, like get therapy and stuff.
	And I think, you know, opening myself to be open to like, okay, let's be together while you get some therapy.
	I think that was a big mistake.
	You know, I think you need to be healed before you're in a relationship.
	And the second quick one would be to not be charitable as charitable because people, you weaken yourself when you're super charitable with people, especially, you know, um, if they don't get it on the first, second time, it's it's time to cut it, because I definitely should have cut it earlier.
	I I missed out on good opportunities, good people.
	And, um, yeah, you, you ruined your emotional intimacy because you have to deal with, um, yeah, trauma.
	So those were, would be the two big lessons I got from this.
	Um, well, I mean, I'm glad that you didn't suffer any negative repercussions from the breakup, because that's certainly a possibility, you know, Bunny Boiler time.
	And last, sorry, last question.
	I know I said one.
	Did friends, family, relatives, did they warn you?
	against her or what was the perception among the people that you knew when you started dating her and they met her or got to know her?
	Well, the ones that knew more of her definitely, you know, like once she, because she broke up with me a couple of times and then would come back and like, yeah, let's work these things out.
	But my friends, my male friends definitely gave me earlier warnings and I should have listened.
	Okay, appreciate that.
	And also a breakup, don't ever get back together after a breakup.
	It's a bad idea.
	A breakup is the break of trust.
	And I've never in my life known or heard of a relationship that works out after this, especially multiple breakups.
	So that would be my other suggestion.
	Okay.
	Well, listen, I really appreciate your candor.
	You know, big bro hug to you.
	I'm very sorry about how the way things played out and I'm glad that you seem to have learned some good lessons and can open your heart.
	Just look for virtue, look for virtue, look for virtue.
	There's nothing else.
	There is no substitute.
	Okay, so you're going to move on.
	Thank you.
	Bye.
	Okay, so we're going to move on to thank you for your patience.
	Chorder, I suppose that's the collision of chaos and order.
	Lawful, chaotic.
	So if you want to unmute Chorder, thank you for your patience and I'm all e here.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hey, I'd have an important question for the future of humanity.
	So I was listening to one of your shows with a gentleman that kept calling you a feminist and saying that men's troubles are far worse than those of a lady.
	And it got me thinking with AI increasing over time by day and robotics improving and the future of artificial wombs.
	I'm just going to have kids one day and I'm going to have to figure out how to talk to my kid about women, obviously, or men if it's a woman.
	And, you know, it just seems to me that the divide between men and women is going, increasing day by day, and eventually, you know, men will be able to have their own kids without women and women without men.
	So I don't know if this falls under UPB or if it would be more of an aesthetic thing, but, you know, how do we map that?
	I'm not sure what you mean by how do we map that?
	Sorry if I missed your question, if you can try to try again.
	Yeah.
	What I just mean is I know that this isn't necessarily what is, but what could be.
	But it just seems that in the future, you know, probably near future, you know, men and women will be able to have kids without each other.
	No, no, no.
	I'm you don't.
	When I say I need your question, I don't need you to re state things.
	I'm listening.
	I understand that.
	So, but you just put out a bunch of stuff there and I'm not sure, like, how do we map that?
	I don't know how to answer that because it's not precise enough a question.
	And that may be a deficiency on my part.
	So I'm sorry for that.
	Look, I mean, it is a mock of the desperation of men that artificial wombs are something that's on the radar.
	That is how sad and desperate men are.
	And I don't say desperate in any pejorative sense.
	If I'm dying of thirst in the desert, I'm desperate for water.
	That's not a pejorative, right?
	But it is a mock.
	I think everyone's seen that meme of the guy laughing with the robot going down the road where the woman is panderling because men don't want to deal with her.
	And there is a lot of frustration.
	And I really understand that.
	If it's any consolation, I dated a lot of women before I got married, I was frustrated too.
	I'm not saying it's the same because, at least when I was younger, OnlyFans wasn't an option for like 10% of young women.
	But artificial wombs will produce children, but children need two parents, ideally.
	I mean, they need a mother and a father.
	That's kind of how we evolved, right?
	So saying you came out of a machine like Neo in the Matrix is not to me.
	the healthiest option, and that you'll have kids, but it's such an odd and artificial environment that I can't imagine it would be particularly good for those kids to know that they were birthed from a robot womb and grew up without any mother.
	And of course, even if you have your kids, right, let's say you're a single man and you get the baby ejected Positron 9000 that spits out triplets into your lap.
	Well, you still got to go back to work, haven't you?
	I mean, who's going to raise these kids?
	Just having the kids isn't the major deal.
	You can always adopt, I suppose, right?
	But...
	Who's going to raise your kids?
	Is the robot going to raise your kids?
	That seems like a pretty weird experiment.
	Is the robot going to breastfeed your kids?
	I mean, who's going to get up at night when your kids are.
	hungry and breastfeed them two, three, four times a night, well, it ain't going to be the dad.
	Because the dad, you know, our boobs are all taps and no plumbing, right?
	We got no milk ducts.
	So just getting the baby is the least of the issues with regards to parenting.
	There's a whole bunch of stuff that needs to happen after that.
	The man's going to have to go to work.
	And even if he says, well, I work from home, if you have a kid or two or three around the home, you can't parent.
	I remember when I was in New Zealand and Jacinda Arden had had a baby, was going back to work, and I said, well, she can't be as good a mother.
	Oh, you're saying she can't be a good mother?
	I said, no, she can't be as good a mother because when you are working, you are not parenting.
	And when you are parenting, you are not working.
	I mean, you can fake it, I suppose, but that's just mostly lying, right?
	I mean, your employer is not paying you to parent.
	He's paying you to produce widgets or type code or whatever.
	So I really do sympathize with, and I'm certainly not trying to mock the desperation that men have with regards to we want kids, but women won't settle down.
	But, you know, and there's a difference a generational thing.
	I do have younger friends, so I'm not completely out of the loop as far as this goes.
	But there's this online stuff that is really toxic.
	And our brains don't know the difference deep down, like our lizard brains.
	They do not know the difference between what's online and what's in the real world, right?
	So I saw this video the other day, and it was these two, you know, fairly trashy looking young ladies.
	And it's like, ugh, me and my bestie about to head out to the night and get free drinks and give out our Instagram addresses and then ghost everyone the next day.
	And then tomorrow we're going to do it all over again.
	You know, all of this sort of stuff where women are just out there getting attention and free drinks and then never have to date and and have a real relationship and so on now that's not super super common it's there for sure but the problem is we live in a freak show called the internet because the freak shows you know back in the day is like world's heaviest man world's strongest man bearded lady like circus freaks it's a freak show freaky just
	wildly unusual.
	Now, the internet, of course, how do you gain attention on the internet?
	Well, usually it's by being different, freaky, unusual, triggering, and rage-baiting.
	But if all you do is travel from Circus Freak Show to Circus Freak Show, you're not going to have a very balanced view of the world.
	There was a woman who wrote a book, I've mentioned it before, Danielle Crittenden.
	And she said, you know, like reading all this feminist stuff.
	and then going out into the world where, you know, men are pretty nice and people date and women seem to be dressed nicely and seem to care about the men and so on.
	It's kind of like when you study a bunch of Marxist economics about the exploited and pillaged proletariat class, and then you go out and there's, you know, waiters chatting while having a cigarette out back of the restaurant, and there are these construction workers who are laughing and joking with each other and making fun of each other.
	And what happens in that sort of concentrated, psychotic world of ideology is not obviously a one-to-one mapping of what's out there in the world, right?
	So what's...
	women with crazy makeup always sitting in their cars making bird hands seeing outrageous things with filters on it's just a form of deranged attention seeking but most people are not like that.
	And certainly, you know, I mean, when I go to church, when I go there, most people are just not like that.
	I mean, there's dysfunction, of course, in places and so on, right?
	But the internet is a generalized parade of the ultimate freak show.
	And it's really easy to say all women are like the bug-eyed, bird-handed, blue-haired ranters sitting in their cars screaming about the patriarchy.
	That's not super common.
	Now, again, I know that there's a lot of programming and propaganda that goes on in schools, and that certainly has an issue.
	That's a big issue.
	But the people who are susceptible to propaganda have always been susceptible to propaganda.
	And I guarantee you that nobody who listens to this conversation or listens to this show, I hate calling it a show, this conversation.
	If you listen to this conversation, you can't spend 50, 60 years with someone who's an NPC.
	You can't.
	You just, you can't.
	You know, people are, the women are, some women are getting into these pseudo relationships with, with AIs, a wired husband.
	And AI is more creative than most NPCs because with AIs, you can't always predict what it's going to say.
	But with NPCs, you can always predict what they're going to say.
	You always know what their stance is.
	It's just, there's no free will.
	They're basically just robots.
	Action, reaction, and they're programmed.
	Now, I don't think that there's a massive, greater number of people susceptible to programming and to ideology and to groupthink and Borgmind.
	I don't think it's hugely critical greater now than it was in the past I mean In the past, you know, men cheerfully with, you know, it's a long way to Tipperary sing song in their hearts.
	They marched off to war.
	That's propaganda.
	Women were taught how in the 1930s women became smokers because, what was it, Bernays or someone was just like, oh, we just have pretty women smoking and everyone's gonna start smoking.
	And you see, you know, when I was younger, there was this, you know, crazy hair stuff that went on, the Flock of Seagull Singer with all this sort of weird, curd, poofy hair.
	And then Miami Vice came out and everyone had to have those brightly colored jackets with the sleeves rolled up because Don Johnson was a handsome guy with cool hair.
	So these waves of what is popular, the polo shirts were big., the big status symbols when I was younger.
	And then there was this wave of breakdancing.
	And then it was Rubik's cubes.
	And when I was a kid in boarding school, we would go through these manic phases of conformity.
	Like suddenly paper airplanes.
	Everyone had to have a paper airplane that could do the coolest tricks and fly the furthest.
	And then there were these things called conquerors.
	They're like chestnuts.
	And you'd put a thread through them and you'd whack somebody else's chestnut and yours would break theirs and you'd end up at the king chestnut.
	It just we'd have these crazy synvita stance medieval fits of conformity.
	And I mean, that's the mark of caged beasts, that's the mark of zoo animals to have these kinds of crazy conformity things that go on.
	But, you know, it wasn't like, I remember I did a book report on a book about a village called Montaillou.
	Actually, my book report was so good that the professor read it to the whole class saying it was the most perfect essay he'd ever received.
	It was nice.
	But in the village of Montaill, just about everyone believed the dominant narrative of, you know, the king is God, and this is the pope and the church, and everybody just went along.
	And the Milgram experiments were in the 1960s, where two-thirds of people will kill you if someone in a white lab coat just nudges them in that direction, and everyone will torture you if they're just asked too nicely or it's suggested that that might be a kind of cool thing.
	So if I sort of look throughout most of human history, it's just a massive wave of a few people and a bunch of NPCs.
	And I honestly couldn't tell you exactly why, obviously with peaceful parenting and living less violence better education i think we can rescue people from group think but most people you know functionally don't think they don't certainly don't think for themselves they just they get programmed by the tv and they turn into just another appliance, a pro state, pro current thing, appliance.
	They're not there.
	They're not there as a person that you can talk with.
	That's why they're called NPCs because there's like a dialogue tree.
	And I mean, NPCs actually have more dialogue trees than most people.
	So the fact that there are women out there and men out there who are susceptible to group think and women are a little bit more susceptible to group think because they score higher in the trade agreeableness, which is getting along with people.
	And there's nothing wrong with that.
	That's just the way that the beautiful human mind, both male and female, has developed.
	So yes, there's a lot of women out there who are susceptible to group think and that's tough.
	And that's great.
	That's great.
	If people who didn't think for themselves had a big tattoo on their foreheads with a human brain with a circle and a line through it, like do not enter, like a big tattoo or a small tattoo but visible, which is I don't think.
	Well, that's helpful to you.
	Because as somebody who thinks, you listen to the show, you think, you don't want to be with people who don't think, right?
	Like it's torture.
	It's torture if you've ever been with NPCs, it's horrendous.
	Like, it's like they're there, not there.
	So, yeah, there's people out there who don't think.
	Are there vastly more of them now than there were?
	I think there's more extremes because of the internet.
	So people are, there's more programming in a way, but there's also more counter programming.
	So there are, um, the people who don't think don't think harder.
	And the people who do think do think better because of the internet.
	I mean, even just a show like this, right?
	Probably close to a billion views and downloads by now.
	It's pretty good over 20 years, right?
	And it's just going to continue.
	So all of the people who've been.
	influenced by the conversations and the monologues that I have here, well, this is a billion points of light, a billion stars in the night sky that weren't there before.
	That makes the planet a little brighter and they wouldn't have been there without the internet.
	So the internet makes conformists more conforming and it makes freethinkers more free in their thinking.
	So the fact that NPCs are out there advertising themselves very, very clearly, you know, with just mechanical opinions and regurgitated talking points and, you know, usually physically weak bodies like people who are physically weak just really can't think for themselves because their bodies are saying, we can't handle rejection and we can't win any particular conflict or combat.
	So we'll just conform and go along like the low T argument.
	So yeah, a lot of conformance out there.
	And the fact that you can identify them very easily now is good.
	I think there are more free thinkers out there than there were when I was younger.
	And that's a good thing too.
	So sorry for a fairly long response.
	But yeah, I don't think that the answer is robotic wounds.
	I'm still going to raise your kids and you want your kids to grow up seeing a mother and a father who love each other right kids don't learn to love as adults by being loved as children it certainly helps but the way that they learn to love as adults is by seeing their parents love each other and you can't get that with the positronic baby ejector 9000, right?
	You actually need a human loving, breastfeeding, attached virtuous female in the environment, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, the only issue I worry about is that, uh, since, like you said, you know, most people are susceptible to propaganda.
	And, you know, as it stands now, we don't have the baby maker 5000 to pop out a bunch of babies.
	But when we do, I just worry that they will outnumber the thinkers and the people that are favoring biology.
	And I don't even know what argument.
	What argument you could make to, besides the human parents, but I mean, a robot, their firmware can be updated to be a better parent, you know, as the days go on, you know?
	So I just, I don't know the argument for.
	No, because what's going to be, hang on, so we evolved to have eye contact and skin on skin contact with a real human female.
	The uncanny valley just is not going to be, you just won't get robots that are indistinguishable from humanity.
	You just, you can't because we don't even know how to make a robot that thinks like a person.
	We don't know how to reconstruct the human brain.
	And we certainly don't have all of the, you know, levels of detail and the pupils and the eye dilation and the skin capillaries that bring the right level of warmth and and spontaneity and laughter and like this just not it's not it's not gonna work but i you know listen brother i wouldn't worry about that i honestly i i don't want to tell people not to worry about things there's certainly things to worry about in the world but i think this is uh you what you want to worry about is how to be the best person you can to be able to identify and
	bring home a quality woman uh to have to make a family with and you know what's going to happen with robot wombs in the future and all of that honestly um that's not date topic material and i think it's having you you concerned about things that are way beyond your control.
	What is within your control is what you say and what you do.
	What everyone else says and does is beyond your control.
	So I wouldn't worry about things that are so far beyond your control.
	I would really focus on becoming the best person.
	I'm not saying you're not, but even more perhaps, focus on being the best person that you can, because if you're worried about robot offspring in the future, it's going to be a little bit odd for a woman that you go on a date with.
	And especially when you're single, it should serve good date conversation.
	As many of your thoughts as possible should serve good date conversation, if that helps.
	My wife is laughing her butt off right now.
	She probably wouldn't have dated me.
	I was talking.
	I know, but.
	Yeah, would she have dated you if you were talking about your fears of robot babies in the future?
	Probably not.
	Maybe that's what she likes about me, my weirdness.
	No, that's not.
	Listen, it's not.
	It's not.
	It's an interesting topic.
	I get that.
	It's and I've enjoyed talking about it.
	So there's, I mean, I'm not going to say, Oh, it's a bad topic.
	It's a good topic.
	But, and do you have kids?
	Uh, no, but uh, we're planning, uh, soon to have some.
	Okay, fantastic.
	So, um, but, but you want to make sure you don't put too much of these quirks and these concerns into your kids' minds because they're going to have enough to worry about just with the way that the world is but all right I got another caller or two but I really do appreciate the question and it's lovely to hear that you married congratulations thank you all right self-described psychopath let us uh screw our courage for the sticking place and chat with the self-described psychopath what's on your mind uh maybe he's a psychopath and
	a mime going once going twice you'll need to unmute just go on your mind yeah go on I've got a shitty Southeast Asian connection fascinated by the conversation by the way gentlemen and uh here's here's what I wanted to ask, like, what happens?
	What happens to the world, to the species when the robot pussy becomes better?
	Sorry, hold on, just check.
	I think your baby's ready.
	Could you just check?
	Sorry?
	Yeah, I heard a beeping.
	I'm just wanting to make sure your baby might be ready.
	Oh no, it's definitely in the background.
	Yeah, I'm sitting in a Taco Bell in Thailand right now.
	Right.
	It's gonna be, this is a Thailand for Taco Bell.
	My God, you are a psychic math.
	Anyway, so go on.
	Yeah, Rog, I haven't seen a Thailand in, I haven't, I'm sorry, I haven't seen a Taco Bell in Southeast Asia.
	until I got to Thailand.
	And so obviously I had to come here and then give myself diarrhea for tomorrow.
	That's my big point.
	Sorry, hit me with your question again.
	So here's my big question.
	Okay.
	So what happens when the, you know, synthetic, the robot, the MS pussy, is actually better, more tolerable and just generally overall a more satisfying situation than a human.
	It's nine up.
	What does that do to the human species?
	That's what I'm really wondering.
	I'll post point.
	I think we're like five years old.
	So you mean when robot sex apparatus provides potentially a more pleasurable experience than a person?
	Well, it's not a hop, skip and a junk.
	Like, it's like if you could just fuck that person and it would be better without all of the female bullshit that comes with it.
	I think most men would offer that, but you also have to have that reproductive factor.
	So like, let's say we go to a whatever that video game's called, you know, with mister Sexy from the zombie, the zombie TV show.
	Well, if we can get to a place where like men can birth their own Children, like, effectively women are done.
	Like, they're done.
	They're out because no, no man is putting up with women's bullshit if they have the option.
	Right?
	That's all I'm saying.
	Why, why do you think you're angry at women as a whole?
	I'm I've said this overly.
	I'm just curious.
	Well, I know, like, listen, I don't have a problem with, like, women in general, but I'm saying no, no, no, no.
	I'm not doing the conversation.
	I'm not doing the conversation if you're going to bullshit me, bro.
	You repeatedly said, hang on.
	You repeatedly said women's bullshit, right?
	Well, do you not know what I mean when I reference that point?
	Because it's like you have to just go through so much.
	So, what?
	Procreate and like have a stable family without getting half your ass taken away and all the nonsense that goes with.
	Like we live in a very different world.
	Right?
	Okay.
	So have you yourself had these negative experiences with women?
	Um, no, so what?
	The women that I have like personally, you know, formed an attachment with, they've actually been better to me than I were with them.
	And I think in that respect I got lucky.
	But, um, you know, at the end of the day, for whatever reason, it doesn't work out.
	So it's like, but now I look in the long term and I'm like, you know, I'm getting up with my years.
	I'm dating and I look at these women.
	It's like, you're basically unreliable.
	You're not responsible.
	You're not interested in child earring.
	You don't have, like, nurturing instincts.
	Like, you're just not.
	I would consider it like an apex feminine prototype.
	Like, you just, you fit.
	I don't know.
	So, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	So, do you think, hang on, do you think that there are virtuous and responsible women in the world?
	Oh, absolutely.
	100%.
	Yeah.
	Everywhere.
	Okay.
	So how many of these virtuous, responsible women have you met over the course of your life?
	How old are you?
	I am currently 40.
	I'm 40 plus years old.
	Is there any chance I could get you to get to a quieter environment by chance?
	Oh, it's it's an absolute madness.
	They're just they're going wild in this.
	I call them that, man.
	You have no idea.
	No, I mean, look, less than half of the women I've met in my life, I would get I would consider virtuous.
	Like, they're just nuts.
	So, hang on, hang on.
	So, you're in your forties and you've met dozens of virtuous women and none of them have wanted to marry you, is that right?
	Well, I would say, how does this work out?
	When I'm more interested in them, they're less interested in me.
	When they're more interested in me, I'm less interested in them.
	And there's been like three or four overlaps when he's an interesting one for.
	But it was clear, it was the timing, it was whatever was happening.
	It's just I fucked it up.
	Like, fully taking responsibility on my own part., when I look back on it now, I think, oh no, she would have been a good mom.
	She would have been a nice, like, you know, life choice or whatever.
	But it's funny, you've got this whole Dennis Miller cadence going on.
	It's kind of interesting.
	Anyway, so what would you say, what would you say are the virtues that you bring to the table in the dating and marriage market?
	Well, I would say, like, I'm not, you know what I mean?
	I'm a hot tempered individual.
	I'm quick to angry, but that also means, you know, I've got the loyalty statistics.
	So like, I'm faithful.
	I don't cheat.
	I don't fuck around.
	I'm, I'm gonna be there.
	I'm a loyal partner, but you have to buy some bloodhounds, semi-emotional bloodhounds.
	And so some of these women, I haven't seen that in others, which I respect.
	And if I try to get better, it's like, same time, it's like, I know I can recreate well into my 70s, right?
	Like, I'm a product of a, I have five male brothers and a single.
	So like my genetics, we can, go deep like if i need to i'm just not okay this point of my life is i'm not I'm not just trying to dump some cinnamon.
	Okay, sorry.
	I think that your audio is too bad to continue the combo, but you're certainly welcome to call back at some time when it's more audible.
	Right now.
	Yeah, so in general though, I would say that if you're calling into a show, a moral philosophy show, and you're saying, well, robot vaginas can replace women, then what you're viewing is that the primary purpose of women is to be a convenient hole for men to dump their sperm into.
	If that is your view of women, quality women will avoid you like the mythical bear in the the mythical bear in the woods.
	I actually guess some women choose the bear.
	But no, women will avoid you, in the same way that if you see a shark in the water, you are likely to get out of the water.
	And so if you're like, well, you know, robot vaginas can replace women, you say, right, because of women's bullshit.
	And it's like, well, then quality women are going to stay away from you.
	And then you end up in a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?
	There aren't a lot of quality women around, and you can replace a woman with a robot hole.
	Well, then you're going to end up in a life without a lot of quality women around, because quality women don''t want to be around that, right?
	In the same way that if a woman were to say, Well, the only value that men have is to pay my bills.
	Well, you're going to end up with a bunch of creepy sugar daddies.
	And then you're going to end up calling into a show where the host is probably too nervous to ask you what the hell you're doing in Thailand.
	Okay.
	Jackie, do you want to take us home?
	Be the last caller of the day.
	Thanks everyone for these great conversations.
	By the way, I really do appreciate it.
	Jackie, if you want to unmute, I'm all here.
	I just kind of wanted to go off of what Leif was saying.
	Sorry, who was Leif?
	The fellow that was just up.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Okay, is that his name?
	Yeah, it was part of his, his call sign.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	So go ahead.
	Basically, we've all been steered into this materialistic world where everybody wants, wants, wants, and they forget the fundamentals of what humans actually need.
	Their basic emotions being met, the roles that males played, that females played, has all been misconstrued because when you look, males are very important.
	So are females.
	It's how a lot of competition between the two of them and they're supposed to complement each other.
	They're not supposed to be in competition.
	But when people get into relationships and that, they forget that jealousy can be a negative poison.
	And if they think that they're with somebody that's above them or like out of their league type of style, they develop these kind of mentalities toward the opposite sex regardless of male or female.
	But one thing that men forget is there is not one man on this planet that didn't get here through a woman.
	And women need to remember that without men, there's no children.
	So the fundamental roles that we are supposed to hold have been taken away by the way that we've been taught to live our lives.
	The motherly role has been put into some industrial factor or working out in the world when they're supposed to be at home looking after the children.
	I am a mother, I'm sorry.
	And I do agree with the traditional roles of the family.
	And you don't have to apologize for that here, I appreciate it.
	I would say I thank you for your service a lot more than I would to a soldier, but go on.
	But when a mother is forced to be the breadwinner as well, or things like that, there's so much stress on them.
	And they're trying to take care of their kids.
	They're trying to do everything because a lot of men run away.
	That's the situation I was in, and I had to raise my son on my own.
	I had to find good role models for him of the male persuasion, just so that he had that balance in his life.
	Because without one or the other, you don't have that balance.
	And that's what has been lost in this world, is the balance of the structures of the fundamentals of humanity.
	That's what they're ripping apart right now.
	And nobody's paying attention to the real big picture.
	The big picture is they're doing this to everybody.
	And unless we stand up and just say, look, the way that things were, the feminist movement, all it did was get the government another tax that they can take off somebody else's wage.
	Well, and give the government control over children.
	But sorry.
	Absolutely, because if you're at work and the kids are in the institutions and the schools and everything, they're telling them what to think.
	They're not teaching them how to think.
	They're telling them what to think.
	And that is dangerous.
	So when people come up and they have the critical thought, they understand to ask their questions, and it's really simple.
	Who, what, when, where, why, and how?
	Ask that about everything.
	Because without your critical thought, you're just going through the motions, and there's too many sheep right now.
	We need some lions to wake up.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	And if you don't mind sharing, what was the story with your son's father?
	He was one that was a bit of a player.
	The jealousy kind of took over, and things eventually got violent.
	I was blamed for absolutely everything.
	I'm not saying I'm perfectly innocent.
	It takes two to tango, okay?
	But when I'd be going to work and going home and like picking up my son up from daycare, everything, there was no help with any of that sort of the bills and everything.
	I was supporting him.
	The only thing that he covered was rent, I covered everything else.
	And if you add up all that stuff, it's way more than what rent.
	Sorry, so he didn't work?
	No, he was working, but his money seemed to stay with him.
	Okay, and how long did you know him before hang on, how long did you know him before you got pregnant?
	About a year.
	Okay, so it was totally different.
	Totally different.
	It was like a switch went off and a totally different person came out.
	As soon as that engagement ring went on my finger, a totally different person came.
	And I'm sorry, so you got engaged before you got pregnant, right?
	Right about the same time, yeah.
	Well, which happened first?
	The engagement actually.
	Okay, so you got engaged after you'd known him for, I guess, close to a year.
	Yeah.
	And then he changed into a good guy to a bad guy, is that right?
	Well, it's it's like he got possessive after the ring went winning?
	Before that, it was great.
	Because a lot of times a partner will figure that they own somebody or they can control them.
	And control is not love.
	When you love somebody, no, no, I don't want to get philosophical.
	Sorry, I know that sounds odd.
	I'm just trying to sort of figure this out because I have heard this a lot from women.
	And I appreciate, listen, there's nothing critical here.
	I'm just genuinely curious because I hear a lot about women's female intuition and women are wise and women are smart and so on.
	But at the same time, I hear a lot of stories from women about how I completely misjudged them the man I gave the greatest gift in the universe to, which is a child.
	I couldn't possibly have known any better.
	That's the thing.
	He basically treated my child like he wasn't his, and there was never any doubt of whose he was.
	But see, but hang on, hang on.
	Sorry to interrupt again.
	So, but the more you say what a terrible guy he is, the harder it is to hang on, hang on, hang on.
	The more you say what a terrible guy he is, the harder it is to understand why you had a child with him.
	He was not the same at that time.
	He was caring, he was conscientious, he was everything that a girl would want.
	And when I had my son, I was off work for only about two months before I had to go back to work.
	I didn't get math leave or anything like that.
	And you know how the finances kind of take over and the struggles and all that kind of stuff?
	It really changed the dynamic.
	And with seeing how he wouldn't even take the time to look after my child, which is also his, which you shouldn't have to ask because they're the other parent, they should want to be a part of it.
	He wouldn't even change a diaper.
	Okay, but but so you're saying that he was like a perfect wonderful guy and then he proposed he became possessive you still decided to have a child with him and then he was lazy and selfish it was really really close from when we got engaged to when I got pregnant like I mean within weeks well why didn't you wait to get married?
	You would have I mean the whole point of engagement is you see how people have power how they handle power over you so why didn't you wait till you get married to have a child that would have given you more of a chance to evaluate him as a fiance?
	Sometimes nature just takes its course.
	Unfortunately the situation that I was in wasn't what was going what was in my mind wasn't what was in his mind.
	I'm sorry, I don't understand what that means.
	Are you saying sorry, did you have unprotected sex or did you have a failure of birth control or what happened?
	Failure of birth control.
	Yes.
	Like a condom pill condom.
	Oh, so hang on.
	So the pill.
	So you had a kid with a bad guy because the pill and the condom both failed and he was a perfect guy until he became a selfish bad guy.
	There is not a perfect person on this planet.
	I'm sorry.
	Okay, hang on.
	Like, first of all, hang on, hang on.
	First of all, please try not to overtalk me when I'm making a point.
	So he was a great guy.
	So the reason you became a single mother is you had a guy who appeared to be really great and then turned into a total monster and because both the pill and a condom failed and you got pregnant.
	You ever grown up with narcissistic parents?
	I'm sorry, say again.
	Have you ever grown up with narcissistic parents or did yours actually care about you?
	No, I did not grow up with good parents for sure.
	Then you'll never understand, my friend.
	What wasn't this kind of insulting?
	So it's kind of, hang on, that's kind of rude and insulting, saying I want to understand something.
	It's not being rude at all.
	No, no, we don't do that here..
	We don't do that here.
	This is not part of this conversation.
	So my parents were, I mean, my father left and my mother was violent and crazy and and all kinds of stuff.
	So saying that I wouldn't understand No, see you don't.
	And the overtalking.
	Please don't overtalk when I'm talking.
	It's really rude.
	Let me finish my point.
	So it's not funny.
	Actually.
	So saying that I can't understand somebody else's negative experience is false.
	Of course I can.
	I asked if you had grown up what you described.
	You did grow up with that type of parent.
	You might not recognize it as what it was, but when you are taught from basically the time that you were born that you are worthless, that you are not allowed to say no for any purposes, that no matter what you say, you're wrong, and things like that, you're really confused.
	And then when you get sent out into the world, it's very hard to unravel all that damage that has been done, all that trauma.
	And if you don't break the cycle, then you seem prone to repeat it.
	Not until you reach later years or have just more experience and understand that the way that you were being treated was not proper.
	And then you have to basically start from scratch and relearn everything right from the get-go.
	I'm not trying to be rude to you in any way whatsoever.
	I can't put your perspective of what you're hearing me say.
	I can't I can't see it the way that I'm saying something.
	I can't see it from your perspective.
	You understand?
	I'm sure you do.
	You're a very smart man.
	Well, no, because you said that I couldn'tt understand something, which means that you are saying that you can see it from my perspective, which is that I can't see it from your perspective.
	No, no, no, we don't have time.
	I gave you a lot of time to talk, so it's a conversation, right?
	So listen, and massive sympathy to what you suffered as a child, like massive no holds borrowed big hug from cyberspace sympathy for what happened to you as a child.
	But it's really bewildering to me because when I was asking you about the causes of you being a single mother, the story I got was that he was a great guy and then he just flipped, he just switched., right?
	He did.
	And it wasn't only me that saw the switch.
	Hang on.
	No, that's that's not, let me finish my point.
	So apparently he was just a real chameleon, you know, really perfect at camouflage.
	And then you had the pill and the condom both failed, which is almost like an immaculate conception.
	And then when I started asking about that, you then switched to, well, the reason that I was in a bad relationship was because my parents were narcissists, which again, I have massive sympathy for.
	But when you switched to my bad childhood when I was sort of asking more questions about how you became a single mother.
	And you didn't say at the beginning, well, the reason that I had a child with a bad guy is because I was raised by narcissistic parents and was told I was worthless and was never taught how to say no, which again I hugely sympathize with.
	But I don't see how it fits that the reason you became a single mother, hang on, hang on.
	I don't see how it fits that the reason you became a single mother is both because he was this fantastic chameleon and also because you were really abused as a child.
	You know when you're in the beginning of stages of a relationship and everything's going so good, your energy's high and things feel really good.
	But as you go on., right?
	This is through time.
	This is not immediate, okay?
	But through time, you start to see the flags and things like that.
	When you grow up in certain situations, those flags seem normal to you and it almost seems like a comfort, like familiar.
	Yeah.
	So that's where the issue with growing up with the type of parents that I had comes in, because it blinds you to those flags to save yourself.
	You know, and listen, I appreciate that.
	I mean, you've explained that once already and I don't have a problem with that.
	In fact, I have great sympathy for that.
	So here's what I don't want.
	And I'll sort of tell you why I'm pushing back on this.
	No worries.
	So how old were you when you got pregnant?
	21.
	21.
	Okay.
	And again, massive sympathies for the bad childhood.
	So here's what I don't want to put out on this channel.
	And I'll tell you why.
	And then you can tell me what you think.
	I don't want.
	To make people paranoid.
	I don't want women to listen to this and say, well, gosh, hang on.
	So if he seems like a really good gu bad guy in disguise.
	And women get kind of jumpy and it makes them really tough to give their hearts and to commit to a guy who's good.
	Now, if on the other hand you say, Well, listen, I was raised I couldn't see any red flags, or if I did see red flags they seemed kind of sickly familiar and almost comforting, that's a whole different matter.
	So then if the guy had red flags, but you, in a sense, were programmed to prefer them based upon a dysfunctional childhood, that's a whole lot different from he didn't have any red flags, and then after I got pregnant after a year, he turned into a total selfish monster.
	Those are two very different things, if that makes sense.
	Like, it's one thing to say, I got jumped, I got jumped, like I had a dog that suddenly turned into a tiger, right?
	That's going to make everyone jumpy of dogs, so to speak.
	But if you say, well, I thought it was a dog, but it was a tiger, but I'm blind, that's a whole different thing.
	Well, yeah, exactly.
	But that's what's going on a lot in the world now from what I've seen.
	It's not just myself that's gone through it.
	There's a lot of people that have.
	And one of the big things is finding a man or a woman, either way, it doesn't matter.
	One that's not going to cheat.
	Like it's it's been made so mainstream and things like that.
	And I can't tell you how many women I know that had gotten pregnant, they were married, they already had a child, everything.
	They get pregnant again or whatever.
	Man goes off and cheats while woman.
	Okay, no, I'm not, I'm not sorry, I'm not, I'm not doing this.
	I'm not having you just disrespect men on this, this channel.
	It's just, it's just, it's a constant, it's a constant, no, no, no, no, I'm still talking.
	It's just a constant negative dumping on men.
	I don't do that on this channel.
	Yeah, there's stuff to criticize about men, there's stuff to crit criticize about women but you're like well he was no i'm still talking so you're like oh he was this perfect guy and Then he turned into this monster.
	And all of my friends, you know, I know so many women whose the men cheat on them.
	And like, I don't do that disrespect towards men on this channel.
	You will need to, in fact, go elsewhere for that because I don't, I don't do that.
	Yeah, there are bad men out there.
	But what a lot of people fail to realize is that if you're in a negative social environment.
	Right.
	So if you are a single mom and if you are, if you have, let's just say, to put it as nicely as possible, slightly inconsistent explanations as to how you became a single mom, then.
	then the likelihood is that you will be around other people who may not have as clear eye a view of the backstory to their own current life as possible.
	You're going to be around people who might be inconstant.
	You're going to be around people who might be false or might lie or might be lacking certain virtues.
	And then you're going to say, well, gee, everywhere I look, there's just these men who cheat.
	And it's like, well, yeah, but it's like if you're a drug addict.
	like a serious hardcore drug addict, then you're going to be around a lot of people who are really dysfunctional.
	You say, well, humanity's crazy.
	It's like, no, no, that's not humanity.
	That's you.
	Anyway, she dropped off the call, but yeah., it is important to ask.
	And one day I may get an answer from a single mother that is really honest and direct.
	But I mean, it's funny because she talked about being a chameleon and she herself was a chameleon.
	Well, he was a perfect guy or a great guy and then he became a bad guy out of nowhere.
	There was no way to see it.
	Well, no, but I didn't see any red flags because I was raised by narcissists and it's just, and you know, if this woman ever listens to this or if you are a single mother.
	who's listening to this and you are raising a son.
	And I say this as a single, sorry, as a son of a single mother.
	Don't dump on men, man.
	Don't do it.
	I know that there's been betrayal.
	I know there's been frustration.
	Don't dump on men because you're raising a son.
	Find things that are praiseworthy in men.
	Otherwise, your son is going to grow up with that same cycle repeated of not feeling that he's worth anything.
	Angela, help me.
	Give me a palette cleanse.
	What's on your mind?
	Um, hi.
	I actually drafted something.
	Um, sorry.
	I'm a little bit afraid of public speaking, but I wrote this before Jackie spoke, but it was weird how it lined up a little bit.
	I wanted to say that I listened to your channel when I was younger.
	Sorry.
	I'm a little nervous.
	No, no problem.
	Just imagine that you're in my own private, either dungeon or windowless van, whatever makes you feel more comfortable.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, windowless van it is.
	So I I've written this, I'll read it out.
	How am I supposed to want to get into a relationship if I know that guys can reliably go to Thailand and go to Thailand on their phone from the comfort of their bedroom?
	I've seen how women lose their appearance after having a child and their partners tend to cheat or leave after key events such as engagement, marriage or having a child.
	I wrote this before she spoke.
	Sorry, was that the end of the statement?
	Yeah, it was brief, I guess.
	No, that's, you know what?
	I aspire to brief.
	I respect and admire you for doing that.
	So, how old are you?
	I'm 28.
	28.
	Okay.
	And what has been your experience with man cheating?
	Sorry, I'm not really good at public speaking or really knowing things.
	Also, I don't know.
	Let me ask you this.
	Have you, have you had a boyfriend that you know cheated on you?
	I mean, not suspect, but no.
	No, I've not had a boyfriend that's cheated on me.
	I've not really had a cis male boyfriend.
	Okay, got it.
	So, I guess that's a that's a subset having not had a boyfriend.
	I'm just upset having not had a boyfriend.
	I can assure you that you've not had a boyfriend who, who betrays on you.
	Okay.
	And do you want to get married and have a family or do you have some other life in mind?
	I was told by like my mom is very pressuring on this because she thinks it's like the way to have a happy life.
	And I don't really, I can't really disagree with her.
	Um, but I also can't really, you know, throw myself into something.
	I don't see how emotions can possibly, like, build up when you're just going on dates.
	I don't understand how that sort of thing, like, builds any sort of like that happens when people just hang out.
	You can't just date and create that kind of thing.
	Oh, why not?
	I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to understand your thinking.
	Well, I don't see how I could get attached from going to dinner with someone a couple of times.
	Well, I mean, if you really click and you have great conversations and you admire each other and find each other attractive, isn't that how?
	I mean, I'm just I don't want to make my experience some sort of universal, but I just happened to end up going out to dinner with my wife because we were on a volleyball team and everyone else couldn't make it.
	We've been together ever since because it was such a great conversation.
	Now, like, 23 years later, we're still having great conversations.
	So it can happen that way.
	For sure.
	Sorry, I've been a little bit shaken up.
	I don't really know what to say.
	No, that's fine.
	I mean, okay.
	Okay, so you said you haven't dated cis males.
	I assume that lizard people are off the list.
	So tell me a little bit about your dating history.
	I had gotten involved with someone over the internet, but it turned out that he was trans.
	And that's not what you're looking for.
	Oh, well, it's really tough because I really for like years, really felt like deeply in love with this person.
	The kind of love that it seems like people are looking for.
	Like they seem to like want like women to be like extremely dedicated to somebody.
	I had that but with the wrong person.
	And when did you find out, oh sorry, for how long did you know this person and when did you find out that they were trans?
	I found out after that I had after I had fallen in love with him so I couldn't really like stop the like train, you know, I don't know how people can stop that.
	No, no, but but how long?
	How long did you know the person before you found out they were trans?
	Um, a couple of months.
	Less than a year.
	Okay, so for, um, somewhere between a couple of months and less than a year, you were interacting with this person and was this person hiding the fact that they were trans?
	Uh, not necessarily.
	I kind of understand, like, for safety or something, why someone wouldn't really mention it.
	Uh, okay.
	And was it a romantic relationship?
	Um, when you found out had become a romantic relationship by the time you found out about the trans thing?
	Yeah, in a way, but I kind of decided I wanted to be like really open and honest about things.
	And I kind of like I told him about like my political leanings and stuff like that.
	So that turned him off, but I continued to be into him.
	And after, after that, like a month or two after that, he told me that he was trans, but that didn't put me off.
	And I continued to like be, like, sort of, like, simping a little bit for like years.
	And I couldn't, like, let go of it, you know?
	Okay.
	And can you tell me a little bit about anime?
	And I'm sorry.
	I mean, I really, I really sympathize with that yearning and that, that heartache.
	What, what was your childhood like?
	I think my parents are really good people.
	They still are good, but I do not like the American education system.
	Like, there was a lot of, like, struggle there.
	I had some, like, racial tensions as well.
	Like, even though my parents came from a country where there wasn't any of that, like in America, there's, like, something gone wrong there.
	Like, basically, like, I feel like black kids will just, like, hate white kids, like, just fucking because they think that they're going to be oppressed by them or something.
	So that gave me a little bit of racism temporarily.
	Which is another thing.
	There's also a lot of, there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of animosity stoked as well.
	It's not just innate.
	It's, it's, I think it's a lot stoked by the media, and so on.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Most definitely.
	And the stuff that you see, like, on the news, that can't be really good for relations.
	And would you say that you were bullied at school?
	I think so.
	Yeah.
	But then, um, yeah, I was like more shy, an only child as well.
	So.
	Okay.
	And did you talk to your parents about your negative experiences at school?
	Uh, yeah, a little bit., but I did kind of hide it a bit as well.
	And why did you think you hid it?
	Well, it's obviously embarrassing.
	Well, but there are families there.
	I mean, you're supposed to, I mean, isn't it ideal in families that if you're sad or upset about something that you can talk about it with parents?
	Yeah, I feel like I must have talked about it a little, but I'm not really sure.
	I feel like I'm confabulating a little bit when I talk about this, but there's some stuff that happens like in the moment and then you don't really, it happens like too quickly or something.
	I don't know.
	Okay, I'm not sure what you mean by confabulating, but if you hang on, if you were u upset about things at school, why wouldn't you talk to your parents?
	I mean, they're there to help, right?
	You said they're good people and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I mean, if you had a kid who was being bullied, wouldn't you want your kid to tell you so you could help?
	Um, yeah.
	I can't really remember talking about this or not talking about this much, so I can't really speak on the issue.
	Okay, and now did your parents ever notice that you were unhappy about certain aspects of your school experience?
	Oh, yes, definitely.
	My dad like caught on to this, like, emotionally.
	Oh, so he knew that you were fairly miserable at times going to school, and so he would then he would sit down and ask you about it, right?
	Then you may not have to tell him because he already noticed and he would talk to you about it, right?
	I can't really remember, but like probably.
	It's been a long time.
	No, it hasn't.
	You're in your twenties.
	I mean, if you were eighty, I could get that, but no, it's like ten years ago.
	Okay.
	So did your parents I'm really lazy with accessing my memory.
	Okay.
	So sorry.
	Did your parents talk to you about emotions, your emotional life, your happiness, your unhappiness in general?
	Um, yes, but I can't really remember exact conversations or anything like that.
	Okay.
	So they did talk to you about your emotions, but not to your memory about your unhappiness at school?
	Well, it certainly was noticed, but I can't really remember any specific conversations about it.
	Okay.
	So you have a general sense that they talk to you about your feelings, but you can't remember any specific instances.
	Is that right?
	Um, yeah, I don't really, um, I've not really practiced with like remembering stuff from my past.
	I don't really spend a lot of time pulling things over.
	So, I don't know.
	Well, memory is sort of involuntary, right?
	I mean, I I I remember I don't sit and think about how my dorm room in in in boarding school looked like, but if asked, I mean, sort of involuntary, it's kind of stored there, right?
	Okay.
	Now as an only child., what did your parents do to facilitate, um, sort of peer social engagements and that kind of stuff?
	I I don't think that they really did much in that regard.
	I went to clubs, like after school clubs a little bit, but, um, I was mostly kept indoors really.
	They were kind of scared of, you know, America being like first generation immigrants, so they thought that it was dangerous and it was dangerous, I think.
	Okay.
	I mean, you would look up crime stats and all that kind of stuff to try to find that out.
	But okay.
	So if they view the outside world as dangerous, then the solution to that is to have kids come to your house, right?
	Or you go to other kids' house where they trust the parents or something like that.
	So I don't know why they need to keep you home.
	Even if you say that the neighborhood was dangerous, I mean, you're pretty safe in somebody else's backyard or house, right?
	Or at least kids in your house or apartment or whatever, right?
	So did they facilitate that?
	Yeah, I did meet up with people like that.
	My mom was a little bit embarrassed about the state of the house, so I mostly went over to other people.
	Okay.
	And was your did you do any dating?
	Sort of mid teens onwards?
	Mid teens?
	What is that?
	Like 13?
	I would say maybe 15, 15.
	Maybe fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, like, sort of the last couple of years of high school.
	Hmm, not really at that point.
	I think I had like a younger, like cutie little thing, but not really after that.
	Okay, so then I found this guy online.
	I'm sorry?
	Then I found this guy online.
	Okay, and how old were you when you found the guy online?
	I was in my second to last or maybe the summer between the second to last and the last year of uni.
	So early twenty?
	Yeah, like twenty one, twenty two.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, that's, you know, six or seven years.
	Seven years after, a lot of people at least start to think about dating.
	And did your parents talk to you if you weren't dating?
	Did your parents sit down with you and say, hey, what's going on with boys?
	Or what's going on with girls?
	Or whatever your preference is.
	What's going on with dating as a whole?
	Did they have any conversations with you about that?
	Yeah, I said that I wasn't interested.
	Like, I understood the idea of like having a family and children.
	I was interested in that, but I wasn't particularly interested in having a partner until this person came around, that is.
	But I wasn't really interested in dating for the fun of it.
	And they said that the time will come when I am interested.
	So when I become interested.
	Like I would eventually become interested, they said, yeah.
	Okay.
	And did you talk to your family about the trans person that you got involved with online?
	Um, Yeah, when I went to see him, they were like trying to stop me and that became into a whole thing where they were painted as like bad and controlling or whatever.
	And I was Sorry, they were painted.
	What do you mean?
	You painted Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
	I don't know what you mean by they were painted.
	Who painted them that way?
	The person that I was interested in because he saw that I was a 22 year old and I shouldn't be able to go and, you know, travel and like see him.
	But my parents were seeming a little bit controlling.
	What do you mean by controlling?
	I mean, can you understand that going to meet someone you don't know in person on that you've only known online?
	They're going to see that person.
	I mean, there could be some risks involved in that, right?
	Oh yeah, it is definitely.
	I I understand the reaction.
	Okay, so so their reaction wasn't crazy, but the trans person was saying, your parents are being controlling or bad or something like that, right?
	They they weren't really accurately getting it across to me because they kind of still viewed me as a child and they continued to view me as a child and they sort of still view me as a child.
	Sorry, the trans and how old is the trans person??
	Um, a little younger than me, so maybe like 26, 27.
	Okay, so the trans person who's younger than you views you as a child?
	No, no, no, no.
	I said my parents did.
	So that's what I'm sorry.
	I'm so sorry.
	Okay, I got it.
	That's okay.
	All right.
	So, uh, so did you end up visiting the person?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I ended up, um, living in England for a while because of this.
	And, um, I'd say the relationship broke down like 2022, but I continued, like, feeling really, um, uh, I needed to, like, linger to let myself get over it, you know.
	Okay.
	Okay, so that's kind of why I'm still in England or Scotland technically.
	Okay, yeah, we don't have to get into too many details.
	Okay, so the relationship, the relationship with the trans person has ended, but you're still in the vicinity, is that right?
	Yeah, technically in the same country, not in the same city.
	Okay, that's fine, that's fine.
	Okay, so I guess I'm a little confused when you say, well, you can't get to know someone while dating them, but you can fall in love with someone over the internet.
	Oh yeah, that was a totally natural kind of environment.
	Nobody was trying to fall in love with anyone else.
	I see dating as sort of like, you know, when you are going towards something, you kind of are repelled by it as well.
	You can't, like, make yourself love someone.
	I see dating as kind of artificial in this way.
	That's not the same as friend groups where you don't intend to vulnerable anyone.
	No, no, but you were on you were you weren't in a friend group.
	You weren't hanging out.
	You were online.
	That's totally different, right?
	Yeah, but it was like a close net kind of discord server thing.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So what are you?
	Are you remote working?
	I mean, what do you live on?
	Sorry.
	I'd prefer not to get into that, I suppose.
	No, that's not my feeling.
	Yeah, don't talk about anything you don't feel like.
	Okay, so you're 27.
	Do I have that right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And do you still have as a goal in your life in the future, getting married and having kids?
	I am very stressed about these sorts of things.
	I didn't ask you, but you were stressed.
	Just, I mean, no, no.
	Try to put on the male garb and just answer a question directly.
	Do you want at some point in the future to get married and have kids?
	I don't know.
	The question puts me under stress.
	I'm not sure.
	Well, if you didn't want it at all, then it wouldn't be str stressful, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't want to learn Japanese.
	So if someone says, Do you want to learn Japanese?
	I'm like, Well, no.
	So I want to spend my time doing that.
	I'm sure I'd end up as an insult to the Japanese language.
	Okay.
	Do you think that it was a good idea to get involved in this long distance relationship with the person in Scotland?
	Well, initially I thought that he was a CIS guy.
	No, no, not initially, because obviously you thought it was a good idea initially.
	Otherwise you wouldn't have pursued it.
	Now looking back at the last six or seven years and you're still hanging on to to this person.
	So now looking back, do you think that it was a good idea?
	In other words, if you could give yourself advice at the age of 21 or 22, would you say, yes, go ahead with this online relationship or, no, this is probably not a good idea?
	I thought you were referring to the beginning, but that clears it up.
	I think that it was very valuable.
	Actually, I think that I shouldn't have walked away from somebody that I felt that kind of spark for, because I don't think that comes around very often.
	So I think it was good, but I probably shouldn't be wasting so much of my time currently because the past couple of years I've been kind of stagnant.
	Okay.
	do you view it as a good and positive thing even though it has burned up like half your reproductive lifespan?
	It has indeed.
	I've actually written about that recently somewhere.
	Yeah, that's another one of these stressing factors.
	So again, I'm not trying to lead you on.
	I just so you still do view it as a positive in your life even though you're kind of heartbroken and you basically spent six or seven years in pursuit of something that has turned to nothing.
	I still view it as a positive.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And what were the virtues of this person that you admired and respected so much.
	I think he's just like he's intelligent and cuts through to the truth just like you and people like you.
	Well, but he did hide the trance thing for quite some time, right?
	I don't think he hid it for very long.
	Like, um.
	Well, you said you'd already fallen in love.
	It makes sense that he wouldn't like, it makes sense that he wouldn't like introduce himself with that.
	Well, but I think you said that you'd already fallen from him by the time you found out.
	Do I have that right?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so I mean, if you did want to have.
	kids and have a sort of more traditional or old timey or old schooly kind of relationship, then that would be something important to talk about sooner rather than later, wouldn't you say?
	Yes, it was my mistake to kind of like make assumptions that wouldn't someone's sense that Well, no, no, I'm not saying you're a lame.
	You know, hold on.
	I'm not blaming you.
	I'm just saying that if this person has a sincere or serious dedication to the truth, then they should have been more open, particularly when romantic feelings started creeping in, wouldn't you say?
	you.
	I'm just saying that if this person has a sincere or serious dedication to the truth, then they should have been more upfront, particularly when romantic feelings started creeping in, wouldn't you say?
	I guess so.
	But he was also 21 at the time.
	No, but let's say that you and I met online and let's say that I was infertile and you said that the thing that I want the most in this life is to have a big family, right?
	And I don't want to adopt.
	Yeah.
	Right now, if I knew that I was infertile, should I tell you that?
	The moment that any sort of romantic interest starts to emerge.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Indeed.
	Okay.
	So what else did you admire about this person?
	I suppose on to your last point a little bit.
	I suppose that there were, there was at least one time that I could think of that I asked him a question that.
	that he kind of didn't answer because it pertained to male things.
	And now, you know, later I realized why he couldn't answer that, but No, no, no, not couldn't.
	Yeah, he has been a little bit of a.
	No, no, no, no, no, not couldn't.
	Not couldn't.
	Like if somebody speaks to me in Japanese, I cannot answer in Japanese.
	That's a different matter, right?
	He could have.
	Oh, you mean, I think I get what you mean.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Is there anything else in particular that you admired?
	Because, you know, for me, love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous.
	And so I'm just kind of curious about the moral values that this person manifested, the moral virtues that this person manifested that would cause a, um, this kind of admiration and love.
	He was, um, pretty academically inclined, he seemed, um, and is intelligent.
	Um, he, you know, could kind of like flow in conversation, it was fun.
	Um, he was also flirty, but the way that he was flirty was like, I think he perceived that as something that you can just generally do.
	And on my side, I I did.
	I I took that to mean more and he took it to mean less, I think since he was a more like open person when it comes to like, okay, but none of these are virtues.
	I mean, the fact that he was fun and academic and smart, I mean, those aren't bad things, but you can be fun, academic and smart and a terrible person.
	I'm not saying that he is a terrible person, but I'm looking for moral virtues.
	Oh, I suppose he does, um, view kind of like all of humanity under his like wing, sort of.
	So that could be in a way of virtue, but I didn't really value the virtues that much.
	Like, he's more of a virtuous person than I am to this day.
	Hmm.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Okay, well, I appreciate the conversation.
	Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?
	Um, um, uh, it's it's too hard to wrap my head around it, so I think that's fine.
	Okay, well, listen, I really do appreciate your time.
	Uh, in general, I would say that look for virtues, I guess this has been a kind of theme, right?
	I guess, over the course of the conversation.
	Look for virtues in the people because love requires consistency, integrity, and love requires security.
	And the only way you're going to get security out of people is to focus on their virtues.
	And maybe there are some virtues.
	I'm sorry.
	That I should look out for.
	Sorry.
	Oh, names and virtues are invaluable.
	So, yeah.
	I mean, so if you are getting involved with people, then they need to be sensitive to what it is that you're looking for in life and see if they can provide it.
	So when my wife and I first started dating, she said, I'm looking to get married and have kids.
	And if you're not looking for that, you're an attractive guy, like you a lot.
	But if you're not looking for that, let me know now.
	And so I was like, yeah, I want to get married and have kids, love kids.
	I've worked in a daycare and all that.
	So, um, all right.
	That's another thing.
	I feel like a lot of guys will just say that they have the same interests.
	as you.
	And then they won't.
	Well, but that's where you look for evidence, right?
	So you would look for evidence, such as if someone says, you know, I love kids and so on, then you, you, I'm sure someone in their family has kids, right?
	So you go and visit those people and see how he is with kids, see if the kids like him, see if he gets along well with kids and enjoys their company and so on, right?
	And so there's lots of ways that you can sort of validate these things and get some sort of proof.
	And of course, what you want to do with people is you want to see, is there a gap between their self image and their self image?
	and what they're doing, right?
	So if somebody has a very elevated view of themselves, like they think they're all that and a slice of ham, then you would look to see some kind of achievement in their life.
	Now, that doesn't have to be, you know, that they've, you know, been and won an Oscar or something like that.
	So if somebody says, oh yeah, no, I think I'm a, I think I'm a really good writer, that doesn't mean that they have been published ten times or even once, but you then should say, I'd love to read some of the stuff you wrote.
	And if it's bad, then you kind of have to be honest with them and say, so, you know, the only way that you can really get stability in relationships is when you're your self-image is roughly in accordance with what you're actually doing in life.
	Vanity is when you think you're great, but you don't want to put yourself to the test of that, right?
	So if somebody says, oh, yeah, and I've always wanted, I think I'd be a great actor above all, I've always wanted to do it.
	It's like, it's pretty easy.
	Just go and audition for some community theater and go do some acting.
	It's pretty easy to do.
	You can even just do it with a webcam and put it online and do all kinds of stuff with that, right?
	Or if somebody says, oh, I've always wanted to be a painter, it's like, oh, let me see your paintings.
	Well, I haven't done any.
	It's like, okay, well, so there's lots of ways, particularly when you get into your mid to late 20s, then you want to look at people's self image and see how closely it accords with what they're actually doing in life.
	And I definitely see what you mean and I agree.
	Yeah.
	So when I, you know, so with this fellow or this person from Scotland, you know, you should have asked, you know, do you want to get married and have kids and figure out what would be best for you?
	Because if you care about people, you want to do what is best for them, right?
	I mean, so but at some point, like when you are in this kind of, like, deeply, deeply, like, kind of like, not in love necessarily, but like, infatuated, you kind of put your own ideas to the wayside sometimes.
	Sometimes I see this pop up with a couple of other people as well.
	Well sure, but then someone who really cares about you will have you not do that.
	If someone cares about you they won't want you to lose your identity in the relationship with them they'll always want to know what you think what your thoughts are what your preferences are they will welcome disagreement because that's where growth occurs so uh if if there's this kind of infatuation and you find yourself kind of sliding into invisibility or conforming like water poured into an unfashionable container to somebody else's preferences,
	that's a sign that there may be some level of exploitation going on because people who really care about you don't want you to conform to them.
	They want you to be yourself because you can't love somebody who just conforms.
	It's like falling in love with the mirror and thinking you can make a baby with shards of glass.
	So I would say, yeah, look for these kinds of things.
	Look for someone who genuinely wants to know what you think.
	Look for someone whose self-image matches what they're doing.
	Like when I met my wife.
	I said, you know, I want to write.
	I really like my writing and I was working on books.
	I'd already had a book published and, you know, so there was some conformity between, you know, what it is that I was doing and what it is that I felt I could do or wanted to do.
	Whereas if people just daydream and have all these thoughts and don't actually achieve much, it's going to be kind of exhausting propping up those delusions after a while.
	And when people aren't honest and direct and blunt with themselves, it gets tiresome and tiring.
	So, all right.
	Well, listen, I really appreciate everyone's time today.
	Have yourself an absolutely wonderful afternonoon, my friends.
	We will talk to you Wednesday night.
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