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July 12, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
06:24
Marriage and the Happiness of Men
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That's part of the deal.
I very much want my wife and my daughter and my friends to be happy and to do well.
I love contributing to their happiness.
When I can tell a joke that makes my daughter or my wife or both of them laugh, that gives me great happiness and great pleasure.
So, the question is: does your selfish pleasure and happiness include the happiness of others?
So, saying, well, you're less selfish when you care about other people.
No, I mean, it's just that your happiness should include the happiness of others, and then their happiness includes your happiness, which means you get much better feedback in life.
So when you have people who care, when you, hang on, when you have people who care about you, they will give you much better and more honest feedback, which helps, which is one of the reasons why married men have better mental health for the most part.
Because when you're alone and you don't invest in other people, they don't invest in you, which means you often persist in error without that kind of feedback.
Sorry, go ahead.
I agree with this, Stefan, but he doesn't.
He doesn't understand this perspective.
So if we are able to explain it to him without him locking down, we might better target his hang-ups to our suggestions.
Like he was really locking down quite soon in the conversation, right?
Sorry, what do you mean down?
He wasn't open to your perspective.
And from the outside, from my perspective, even though I agree with every argument you made, you didn't seem open to his perspective either.
And it's not that his perspective is correct.
I don't think it is.
But we're not going to be able to design good enough arguments to get him to open up and get him to see a different perspective if we don't understand his perspective.
No, but I mean, I was very happy to do that.
So when he said there's no benefit to men to get married, I said, okay, here's some factual benefits.
And he dismissed the happiness one because of shaky data.
Okay, that's fine.
I let that one go.
And I'm not an expert.
And all the studies in happiness, so I can't really speak to that.
But then it went to more objective benefits, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And did he agree to those?
And did he accept those?
He agreed to the facts, but his maturity level psychologically wouldn't let him see like he couldn't feel how his life would be benefited with this.
He's happy.
He thinks he's going to be happy by staying alone and by having just disposable income for himself, not having a lot of responsibility and all these things.
He doesn't see that responsibility, taking responsibility can be a selfish action.
Yeah, I mean, he's, I would assume, again, I don't know this guy individually, but there's a certain stage in development where you don't think about other people's happiness.
It tends to be quite early in life.
Like babies don't care about whether they're waking you up for the fourth time that night.
They just need them.
That that's good, that they should do that so you can keep them alive.
So, yeah, there's a very sort of early time in life where you only care about your own happiness and all of that.
And of course, you're supposed to outgrow that because we're social animals, right?
And so I'm still quite, I'm, and this is nothing negative towards you.
I'm just a little baffled.
Like, why does this matter to you?
Because I was somewhere like where he is now, like some years ago when I was less mature.
And I was argued out of that position by various people, maybe a little bit you, maybe a little bit Jordan Peterson and his tick about responsibility and some other great people.
And I would think like just my life and your life and everyone's lives would be better if we got more effective at arguing people or helping people mature faster like this.
Yes, but I'm so sorry.
And this is, again, nothing negative.
You're a very smart and caring person, and I'm not trying to reject your feedback.
But I find it interesting.
Yeah, but have you had these debates in public?
And I'm not going to try and pull some magical experience thing here, but having debates in public is a very, very different matter.
So if this guy called in, if he was having a call-in show with me, let's say public or private or whatever, if he's having a call-in show with me, we dig into his childhood, his history, this, that, and the other, right?
But if this guy is going to say, on my platform, which I am responsible to some degree for what if, you know, I don't cut him off, I have an open car.
I don't just do solo shows, right?
So if he's going to say on my platform, there's no benefit to men for getting married, there's no benefit in marriage for men, that's a toxic statement to me.
I mean, it's a toxic and destructive statement.
Now, my goal then is to block him from transmitting those ideas or that selfishness to my audience, right?
Because I've given him a platform.
So my goal then is to prevent him, right?
So it's kind of like quarantine.
If somebody comes in coughing blood into an ER, they'll put him in a quarantine ward because they don't want that to spread.
Now, I guess they'll try and treat him, but if he resists treatment, he's still got to stay in the quarantine ward, right?
So if somebody comes on and says stuff that is pretty egregious, negative, and destructive, then I'm going to fight back.
My goal is not to change his mind because there was no changing his mind.
He contradicted himself all the time.
He rejected data, moved the goalposts.
He strawmanned.
So there was no changing his mind.
Now, maybe you plant the seeds and this goes out to millions of people over time and it will save a lot more people.
But I am not.
If somebody is rejecting reason and rejecting evidence, how can you change their mind?
So I don't agree with the second part of your argument again, but I know.
And you could be right.
I mean, maybe I'm missing something.
Yeah, you could be right.
And I'm absolutely open to the fact that I'm missing something.
So sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, I feel like this is really good because when you and me are talking now, it seems like a good conversation.
We're flowing back and forth.
But with him, it wasn't like that.
And the real.
I'm sorry.
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