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Aug. 3, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:39:09

The Price of Theft! Freedomain Call In

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	Hey, Steph.
	Hey, good morning.
	How you doing?
	Good morning.
	I'm all right.
	Thank you.
	Excellent.
	Well, welcome to your call.
	And if you want to just jump in, I'm all ears.
	How can I best help?
	Yeah, so I will start by reading what I wrote.
	Hey Steph, I've been married to my wife for over a year and a half and we have a nine-month-old child together.
	My primary issue is near-constant fantasies of being with other women and an overall feeling of being unattached from my wife and child.
	I mean, I love them.
	I also feel like I could take them or leave them.
	Just to be clear, I have taken zero steps towards any kind of cheating, no dating apps, no sending messages to women or talking to other women, nothing of the sort.
	I do watch pornography, which I am ashamed of, but I am unable to stop myself at this time.
	My wife tolerates the pornography use, but obviously not thrilled about it.
	Our marriage has taken some hits this year.
	I had a car wreck back in January of this year.
	I've changed jobs three times in the last year and a half.
	And our son was recently in the hospital for a week, two of which of those days was in the ICU.
	Yes, my wife has threatened to leave me and take my child.
	And part of me wants to tell her to just go ahead.
	She feels life with me is too unstable and I understand her reasoning.
	I'm reaching out to open up my childhood experiences and see if I can free myself and become the great husband and father I believe I am capable of.
	Thank you for your time, Steph.
	I mean, appreciate that.
	That's very, very frank, very honest, very open, and I'm sure we can do some good stuff with this topic.
	So, um, just what happened with the car crash, by the way?
	Yeah.
	So I was driving to work.
	Someone made a left turn right in front of me.
	I couldn't stop and I slammed straight into their passenger side.
	It was an adult a woman and a child in the car and the passenger side backseat.
	Unfortunately, she was about 12 That girl might have some nightmares But I'm okay for the most part went to physical therapy did all that.
	I've got a lawyer So I've gotten open case and all that kind of good stuff, but I open case meaning that you might be charged.
	I Open case in that, a lawsuit, like a personal injury lawyer.
	Ah, okay.
	And that's to, because you're concerned about being sued or because you are going to sue?
	Because I'm suing, I've had a number of car accidents and I've learned over the years to just lawyer up, lawyer up, lawyer up.
	That's not legal advice, that's just what I've learned to do, just to make sure I get all my medical care taken care of.
	Okay, so obviously it was the woman who was turning left was the one at fault, she was turning into your lane?
	Yes, it was a male, and yes, I was in the farthest right lane.
	They were making a left into a plaza.
	they didn't see me and I just they were making the left and I t-boned them. Okay.
	And is it with people in the other car?
	Well, what happened to them?
	Yeah.
	So, um, there was a woman in her twenties.
	The male driver was in their twenties and a girl that was about 12 in the backseat where is basically where I hit was to where she was at.
	Unfortunately.
	Um, I think they were okay.
	All of us were able to get up and out of the car and talk to the police and ambulance and all that.
	Um, I've prior injuries to my neck though.
	From a previous accident, which is why I'm really worried and why I went by ambulance to the ER, got a complete medical workup done and all that.
	Right.
	How many, how many car accidents have you been in?
	Uh, probably like 12, 13.
	No, come on.
	What do you mean?
	Really?
	With, with friends.
	Yeah.
	Um, friends and family.
	Um, no, no, I mean, and not that you've been in, I guess that you've been driving.
	Oh, and driving, like four or five that I've been driving.
	Hmm.
	All right.
	I bookmark that.
	We'll come back later.
	Okay.
	So, and are you in your thirties?
	I am mid-thirties.
	Mid-thirties.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So I assume if you've been in 12 or 13 car accidents, there's a lot of chaos and dysfunction in your family and friends.
	Yes, to say the least.
	Absolutely.
	Lay it on me.
	Hit me.
	Give me your T-bone of history.
	Yeah, so I have five older brothers and sisters that are all half.
	I'm the half-breed.
	We all share the same mother.
	Sorry, by half-breed, what do you mean?
	We all share the same mother.
	But I have a different father.
	Okay.
	So you don't mean racially, you just mean in terms of like family, right?
	Just in terms of like family.
	Okay.
	I was just curious.
	Go ahead.
	Um, well, I suppose that could also be classified as racially as well.
	We'll get more into that.
	Good question.
	Sure.
	Um, so my five half siblings are all 10 plus years older, um, than me.
	Um, and then.
	My mother divorced that man.
	My sibling's father met my father after that.
	I don't know the exact timeline.
	My father at the time had just got done doing five years in the federal penitentiary for the selling, distribution, and manufacturing of cocaine.
	They met at a bar.
	Um, hard to put all the pieces together, but basically they were together for eight years.
	I was born their sixth year of being together.
	They were never married.
	Um, my father, um, so they were together.
	Uh, I was born when they were together during their sixth year of their relationship, is my understanding.
	My parents split up when I was two years old.
	I was taken to go live with my grandmother.
	My father... I'm sorry, how old is your daughter?
	Or your child?
	My child is nine months old.
	Okay, sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, so my parents split when I was two.
	And I was taken by my grandmother out of the house.
	My father started using substances again, or maybe stopped using.
	My mother, I think, began drinking again.
	So both of them felt it was not a stable place for any child.
	All those children, my siblings went to go live with their father.
	A couple of them were in college by that time, or had moved out of the house.
	Um, I spent, uh, I was raised mainly by my great grandmother, my grandmother and my aunt from age two to about five or four.
	Um, my mom would come and visit or she'd see me on the weekends or I'd go spend like a weekend at her house here and there.
	Uh, my father was kind of in and out during that time as well.
	He would come and visit, but then have to leave.
	I'm assuming because he was still, you know, participating in his drug abuse.
	Um, so I didn't really know my parents.
	Um, and I kind of feel like this weird kind of only child slash adopted child.
	Um, eventually it got so bad, I guess, for my dad that my dad called.
	We went to go pick up my dad, um, in a different part of the state, bring him back to our house.
	My father lived with us.
	My father did not work.
	Um, he would take me to school, pick me up from school.
	Um, my father was a very angry person.
	Now part of that could have been unbeknownst to me of him going on and coming off drugs.
	Um, my father also had a bunch of like weird beliefs, like aliens, Bigfoot.
	Um, if stuff was disappearing, you know, quote unquote disappearing or miss Around the house, he'd go around saying at the house that it was a ghost, that a ghost was messing with him.
	So that was weird to come up with, to say the least.
	One incident of violence that I specifically remember, so my dad didn't beat me, he had anger.
	But it would just be this face, he would pucker his lips, it would look like his eyes were gonna bulge out of his head, and that was like frightening, and it was kind of frightening to everyone in the house.
	But there's a specific time where he was grabbing something out of the fridge.
	I had some grapes or something in my hand and my dad does this back kick to me with his leg out of nowhere, completely random.
	I fly off my feet and slam my head into the kitchen counter.
	I fall down to the ground and I start crying.
	And my dad just starts laughing at me.
	He's like, get up, get up.
	I barely kicked you.
	And my dad thought it was the most hilarious thing in his entire life.
	And it would tell the story.
	He would tell it as, Oh, I barely kicked you.
	You cried so hard.
	It was so funny.
	You were crying and you dropped your grapes.
	It was hilarious.
	Yeah.
	It's like typical addict thinking that all their pain is genuine, even though it's self-inflicted, but all the pain they inflict is exaggerated and not real.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That would, that would describe my dad very well.
	And.
	That was the only time I remember him being physical with me when I was younger.
	Now, we did get into a conflict when I was 16.
	There's a lot that happens before this, but I'm just trying to cover this direct violence.
	Where my dad refused to take me to school.
	And the reason why he refused to take me to school was because I refused to help him get an item on a video game.
	I'm not even kidding.
	That is the exact stated reason.
	Because the night before, he wanted help to get this special item on a video game.
	I had gotten it on my save file.
	He hadn't gotten it.
	And he was upset about that, that I didn't help him.
	So the next morning, he refused to take me to school.
	And I told him, well, if you're not going to take me to school, then I'm going to leave.
	I'm out of here.
	I'm tired of this.
	I walk out of the house, out of our front door.
	He chases me down.
	He pushes me or I push him.
	Um, he doesn't hit me, but like we're shoving back and forth.
	Um, I call a friend to come take me to school.
	I go to school that day while I'm at school.
	I call another, I call my mom to come pick me up that day.
	I pack up my clothes and stuff and trash bags and I leave that house.
	Um, and I didn't see my dad for a couple of years after that.
	Uh, some other chaos points in my upbringing, at age nine, um, our house was raided for substances.
	Um, like, legit, I was there, um, like a mailman or someone comes up to the house, knocks on the door, I open the door, and like seven vans show up.
	There's police with guns drawn.
	They've got the drug dog sniffing through all our stuff, opening our drawers.
	Um, my dad's, you know, putting handcuffs put out on the porch.
	I'm sitting there.
	I'm on the porch.
	I've got my hands behind my back.
	You know, the cops tell me don't move.
	Don't even breathe.
	I'm sorry.
	How old were you here?
	I'm about nine.
	And the house gets raided.
	Uh, by the police, uh, I go to my, I go with my dad to the jail.
	Um, you know, they're like, have you ever seen your dad use drugs?
	You know, all that kind of stuff.
	No, I'd never actually seen him use anything.
	I, you know, I'm completely, did you have, I mean, is there supposed to be a child advocate when you're talking with the police?
	No, there wasn't.
	Oh, so literally the police are interrogating a nine-year-old for material evidence against his own father?
	Really?
	That's wild.
	I thought they had to have protective services, I thought they had to have a child advocate and all that, and wow.
	No, I don't remember that at all.
	Maybe that's just TV policing, I don't know.
	They're sometimes not quite the same.
	That's how I remember it.
	I'm not doubting you.
	I'm just, uh, I'm just, wow.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I remember them like, what is this?
	What is that?
	So now you, you can relate to this a little bit.
	So my dad was into gold mining, so he would take me up to like the Canyon, um, in our state to go gold mining and stuff like this.
	Wait, sorry, do you mean like, just like he would be there in the river with a, with a, um, shaker or?
	Yeah, yeah, with the juice box, with panning, he taught me how to pan for gold and stuff like that, which is kind of cool.
	So not quite mining, I mean, unless he's digging, I guess, but alright.
	Digging with a shovel, if that counts.
	So do you know what happened to your dad after the raid when you were nine?
	Yeah, so he spent three days in jail.
	I think I helped him out because what they caught him on, which I don't know if he was ever officially charged, was he had these containers of mercury, the chemical of mercury, and he would use that to extract the gold out of like copper wiring or something like that, or out of rocks, I guess.
	If you put mercury on, it extracts it and So they're like, why does he have all this mercury?
	And I told him, you know, cause that's what he had told me about the gold.
	And so he basically got off with no charges.
	Um, Oh, and they didn't find any drugs, I guess.
	They didn't find any drugs.
	No.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So they had just been tracking his purchases of mercury or something.
	We don't know.
	So my aunt was also living with us at this time.
	So his half sister, my aunt, um, Whom he introduced to crystal meth His aunt or his sister.
	He introduced his own sister to crystal meth.
	She was using at the time, too She was I'm sorry.
	How do you know that your father introduced his sister to crystal meth?
	Uh, they both confirmed it with me later in life.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Yeah uh and His thought is that she called the cops on him.
	His thought is that one of someone he either knew called or her thought was that he called the cops on her.
	His thought is that she called him on him.
	And so when we got back, when he got back, He was really upset with his sister.
	I remember them having a few different violent, like, on the ground, where he would push her down on the ground and just start swinging at her face.
	Just over that.
	There's a lot of chaos here.
	And was your father... I mean, sorry, do you know if your father was dealing drugs at this period?
	I mean, how did... You know, I'm sorry to be all kinds of, like, I guess middle class or whatever, but it's always my, like, how do people... I was always terrified of anything like that, like drugs and stuff, because it's like, I gotta pay bills.
	I gotta get to work.
	You know, so I've never quite understood, like, how do people have all of these crazy, chaotic lives without ending up living under a bridge?
	I mean, I guess there's welfare and stuff that never really seemed like... Welfare never really seemed quite real to me when I was younger.
	Because, you know, as a male, you don't really... Maybe for women, if you have kids or whatever, right?
	So, I guess, I mean, how did he... How is everyone living?
	How are they paying their bills and their taxes?
	Yeah.
	So my grandmother had a really good job and my grandmother supported all of us.
	Um, what did she do?
	I honestly don't know what she did.
	Um, I, I know the company that she worked for was some financial institution.
	Um, so my, my grandmother support us as all, um, uh, really, really well.
	Huh?
	Uh, well, that's quite an income.
	Yeah, I mean, there was nothing for want.
	I mean, my dad was also a smoker.
	And so like, you know, like a chain smoker, like two, two and a half packs a day.
	And so by... Sorry, you say my dad was, I mean, I assume with that kind of life, this is all the past tense, is he dead?
	Yeah, so my father committed suicide when I was 19.
	All right.
	So you don't know if he was... I'm sorry, I would like to give you my condolences, but I can't really feel them, so... Yeah.
	So do you know he was just living off your grandmother, is that right?
	Yeah, he, you know, would have these occasional schemes, like the gold mining quote-unquote was a scheme to make money... Gold panning, gold panning.
	Gold panning.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Unless he's in Minecraft, it's not gold mining.
	Anyway, sorry, go on.
	That was a scheme.
	You know, he he turned out he was also a hoarder.
	So like our house slash our room, I should say, was filled with like random stuff that he'd swear he would fix up and sell our backyard, you know, i.e.
	my grandmother's backyard had to shed it sheds like steel sheds filled to the brim.
	You couldn't get in them of just random stuff.
	We had two fridges.
	Like, not working fridges in our backyard.
	Like, it was Beverly Hillbilly style.
	Oh, it's like that old joke about the, uh, the Arkansas state application.
	You know, number of, number of cars on bricks in the front yard.
	You know, three, four, other.
	There's no zero option.
	Okay.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Uh, he had bought like a 1955 El Camino, cause that was the year that he was born.
	Swore up and down he was going to get it fixed.
	Um, the thing would never stop like catching fire, you know, whatever we go out to drive it.
	Um, he'd have random people stay at the house.
	I remember there was this homeless woman living in like her car in our backyard for a while too.
	You know, he'd have friends, I guess his druggy friends come and stay, you know, on our couch and stuff like that too.
	So, um, A lot of chaotic stuff.
	Me and my dad shared a room in a bunk bed, and that's where I got- Oh God, you were locked up in a sense with a druggie?
	Oh yeah.
	Oh my God.
	And that's how I got exposed to pornography, probably at age like six, seven.
	Oh, your dad introduces his sister to crystal meth and his little boy to porn.
	Well, I don't think on purpose.
	Well, the, the porn was probably not on purpose, but I had to find, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't just wander into your room and start playing on your screen.
	Right.
	Well, I'd woken up in the middle of the night and I'd seen pornography on the screen, you know, and my dad thought I was asleep.
	Um, and you know, from that point on, you know, if my dad went to do whatever he did, And I stayed home sick from school.
	I would go through the room, find the pornography and watch pornography while he was gone and then put it back and all that stuff.
	Right.
	You know, put the tapes back.
	Uh, so that's, that's kind of where that starts really.
	Uh, that and my dad in our room had posters of, you know, women in lingerie, you know, women in thongs, things like that in, in, in our room.
	Right.
	Uh, So there there was that as well and you didn't have any contact with your mom.
	Is that right?
	I'd see her on the weekends.
	So my mom would pick me up So I would see her like I would stay with her like Friday night Saturday night, and then she'd bring me home on Sunday And my mom was clean at this time My mom just had my mom's issue.
	So my mom was married three times and Um, of course the first to my sibling's father Um after that to this guy don't really remember too much.
	I think he was a cop and then to From and then druggy to cop excellent Yeah, and then finally this guy who was a felon or like an ex-felon.
	He was a pretty cool guy though He was clean Uh, before him and his mom got together, they, they, me, um, him and my mom got together.
	They were in AA together and that's where they met.
	Uh, he had a hell of a rap sheet though.
	Uh, but at least the time I knew him, he, he was a good guy.
	What ended up happening is they were together for 10 years or married for 10 years.
	Uh, because of his previous substance use, he got cancer and passed away.
	Um, My mom had to have been like 55 or so at the time.
	And so my mom hasn't remarried or dated or anything since.
	I think after that death, my mom kind of really started to deteriorate on her own.
	Oh, the fun part about my mom is though, is that she did have a 10 year history of embezzling money from the company that she worked for.
	Like a thousand dollars here and there over a period of like ten years what happening is that the company went
	under.
	And she basically parasite that company into oblivion.
	Ish.
	She was part of the problem.
	The feds got involved.
	They, you know, went through all the records and all that stuff.
	They found this missing money, tied it to her.
	So my mom went to jail for a couple of weeks when I was 14.
	A couple of weeks?
	Yeah, because my stepdad spent a bunch of money on like a lawyer to like get her out and all that.
	So she steals for 10 years and she goes to jail for a couple of weeks.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	And on top of that, she sued that company for, uh, disability due to like carpal tunnel syndrome.
	So she's still, so she's still getting payments from that company that went over.
	So she stole from them and she sued them and still continually getting payments from them.
	Now you are laughing about this stuff and I mean, you've got a generally completely unemotional way of talking about this stuff, which is kind of disconcerting, just to be honest with you.
	Like it's kind of alienating because I mean, this is all just absolutely horrible stuff, right?
	Yeah, it is absolutely horrible.
	I feel that the weight of it is so strong that all they would do in this call is just cry.
	Instead of being able to give you information.
	I mean, one of us is going to end up crying.
	It should be you, because it's your history, right?
	I mean, that makes sense.
	I've shed a lot of tears.
	Like, when my mom went to jail, I spent like a week or like two weeks crying, so I feel like I've grieved it already.
	Hang on, so why did you cry?
	And I'm not saying... Nothing I'm saying here is going to be judging, and even me saying it's kind of weird to have all this unemotional conversation about these absolutely appalling things.
	You know, like, haha, my druggie dad believed in ghosts.
	And, and, you know, haha, my mom sued the company she stole from.
	And right.
	I mean, that's not a criticism you understand at all.
	I'm not like saying, oh, this is wrong or bad.
	I don't mean that at all.
	And so when I asked, like, why did you cry when your mom went to jail?
	Was it, was it her sadness?
	Was it your sadness?
	Like what, what, what was going on?
	Like, well, and I know it's hard to remember, probably hard to remember, but what were these tears for?
	Haven't I been through enough?
	We're going to do that.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Like, really, mom?
	You couldn't just not steal?
	Like, that's, you know, I don't steal.
	Okay, so it wasn't, it wasn't for your, my poor mother.
	I, and I, I'm not, again, I'm just curious what your emotional experience was.
	So it wasn't like, oh, my poor mother, the jailbirds, or it was like, man, can, can't this ever stop?
	And it doesn't stop, right?
	It doesn't stop because when you're down in this layer of society, there are no good people.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	It's all hell down.
	This is trash planet, right?
	As far, I mean, I've sort of used that term before, but there's just no good people.
	And I mean, I get they're wounded people, this, that, and the other, but, uh, it's, uh, you know, when, when they start really harming and messing up kids and drop kicking kids across the room or whatever it is, then I, uh, I little, I run, I run a little bit out of sympathy.
	Yeah.
	Trash planet, but born and raised.
	I mean, yeah.
	Well, yeah, not raised, born and survived, right?
	Nobody raises you there.
	You just try and find a way to survive, right?
	Yeah, more accurate, definitely.
	So, it was kind of a matriarchy as far as I understand it.
	There weren't, other than maybe some of your dad's druggy friends, there really weren't males around in this environment outside of your dad, because you're talking about your aunt, your grandmother, and so on, right?
	And your grandmother, I suppose, was somewhat functional because she had this high-paying job or whatever, right?
	So what were they doing locking you in a room, in a sense, with an insane drug guy, your dad?
	Why didn't they force him into rehab?
	I'm trying to sort of understand, what the hell was the thinking with all of this, that you end up in a room with your dad?
	How long did you live in the room with your dad?
	Till in my teens, so until my aunt left due to her substance use.
	My aunt left.
	I think a part of it is.
	Oh, this is the crystal meth.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I think a part of it, well, first of all, I think there's a layer of denial from my grandmother.
	I don't think she could ever admit that her son, my father had that deep of a problem.
	What?
	Oh come on, I mean, there's denial, I get, I mean I get that there's a denial aspect to life, but, I mean, that's, what?
	I mean, he's a hoarder, he's talking about Bigfoot and ghosts and demons and whatever
	the hell, like he's doing drugs, he's like, his car's catching on fire when he drives.
	Like, I mean, that's not, I don't believe the denial thing.
	I honestly, I mean, I hate to sort of jump in with your memories, but like there has
	to be plausible deniability.
	If you're going to claim denial, right?
	Like, let's say you have a guy, he's a high-functioning alcoholic, right?
	Like, he's the partner in a law firm and he makes half a million dollars a year or a million dollars a year.
	But, you know, he also drinks a bottle or two of wine every night.
	Okay, there's some denial there, right?
	Because it's plausible.
	But how on earth is it possible for denial to be operating with regards to your dad?
	That can't be denial.
	Denial has to have something to cling on to, right?
	Thank you.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of speechless.
	I don't know what was going through my grandmother's head.
	I think doing the best she could.
	I know that's totally a non-answer.
	I'm speechless.
	I haven't judged my I mean, I'm not saying judge, but I haven't objectively taken a look at my grandmother.
	Okay, so why haven't you judged your grandmother?
	Because she's, like you said, the only high-functioning person.
	No, but that was a disaster.
	The fact that she was making a lot of money was a total disaster.
	It couldn't be worse.
	You know why, right?
	Uh, give it to me staff.
	Well, she's, she's paying for everyone.
	She's keeping people from, she's keeping people from getting rehab from getting jobs from, you know, like what, what is it that cures addiction for a lot of people, or at least blunts addiction is you got to get a job.
	You run out of money.
	You can't buy drugs.
	You're living under a bridge.
	You hit rock bottom.
	I mean, if people who take drugs don't learn from the drugs, the cost, the damage they're inflicting on others, then how do they learn?
	Well, people only learn through reason or suffering.
	That's it.
	Reason or suffering.
	That's how people learn.
	Right?
	Some people are like, well, I got to maintain my health because X, Y, and Z. And some people are like, oh, I just had a heart attack.
	I suppose I'll clean up my diet.
	And by preventing suffering, you're preventing cure.
	Like imagine, imagine if, if, you know, I don't know, someone's got some big problem with their heart and they get huge chest pains.
	Well, then they go to the, The ER.
	And now, imagine if there's someone can wave a wand and that person doesn't feel any chest pains.
	What happens?
	Well, eventually I suppose the Widowmaker busts and their heart just explodes in their chest and they're dead!
	To numb negative feedback is to consign people to hell!
	I mean, one of the reasons I stayed away from any of this stuff, and it was around, like I've never taken any drugs.
	I mean, one of the reasons, it's like, it's just a basic rational calculation.
	Well, I gotta, I gotta get to work.
	And if I don't, if I start taking drugs, uh, my expenses will go through the roof.
	And I'll have a tough time making money.
	And I didn't want to live on the streets.
	It's Canada.
	It's cold as a witch's tit, right?
	Half the year.
	So, because of that fear of consequences, because I never viewed welfare as a real thing.
	I've always viewed welfare, I mentioned this sort of earlier, and I'm sorry, I don't want to make this about me, but I sort of viewed, welfare is like a female thing.
	Right?
	Because, I mean, all of the women who I knew, sorry, all the people I knew on welfare were women.
	The single moms and the people with, oh, you know, disabled, but they can still garden, you know, all this kind of stuff, right?
	So, welfare was just a girl thing.
	It was a female thing.
	And as a male, I just, I just, it never really crossed my mind.
	Oh, well, I can, you know, there's always welfare or whatever, right?
	So, because I didn't have access to, I don't know, free government money or whatever, right?
	And I had to get to work.
	And I was broke because I was paying my own bills since I was 15.
	And I didn't have grandma throwing money at me.
	I had to keep my shit together.
	I couldn't wander off the path.
	I had to stay on the strict and narrow.
	That also meant I couldn't afford bad food.
	I couldn't go to McDonald's.
	I had to eat cheap.
	Eating cheap often means eating well.
	My friends would be out there getting a meal and I'd have two bananas.
	Right?
	So, your grandmother having all of this money was a complete catastrophe because she handed out the money to drug addicts.
	Which means she sabotaged the living shit out of her family.
	Here, drug addict, take some money.
	Oh, that's gonna go just great.
	That's straight-up sabotage.
	And she knows that your father is a father.
	So she's like, it's for you, right?
	What does she do?
	She's like, hey, you go live in the same room as a drug addict who's random and chaotic and God knows what, right?
	And watching porn with a kid in the room.
	Right?
	So she's like, I'm going to pay for this drug addict.
	To kind of be half locked up with his son, and he's not going to have to worry about paying the bills, and he's not going to have to worry about getting clean, and he's not going to have to worry about living rough.
	I'll keep him comfortable.
	I won't have any standards for his behavior.
	I won't say, okay, I'll pay your bills, man, but you've got to do, like, weekly drug testing, and the moment you fail, you're out on your ass.
	And also, you've got to do work around the house, you've got to get a job, you've got to clean this hoarding shit up.
	You know, hey, I'll pay for therapy if that's what you need.
	But there's no standards here at all!
	That I can tell, maybe I'm wrong about that, you can certainly correct me.
	But your grandmother's money was a complete disaster!
	Because that was the real drug!
	The real drug is giving free stuff to irresponsible people.
	No standards, no requirements.
	The real drug is the money.
	The illegal drugs are the effect.
	The cause is the money.
	Sorry for the long speech, but...
	That's why your grandmother's money was like the worst thing in the world for your family.
	You guys would have been way better off if she had had any standards or requirements for all the free stuff.
	She was addicted, I assume, to sabotaging her kids and shield... like when you shield people from consequences, you make them worse.
	I mean, look, it's good when, this is the female impulse, right?
	The female impulse is to shield people from consequences.
	Because babies can't learn by falling down the stairs.
	And toddlers can't learn by walking, like tripping and falling into a fire.
	So, women are programmed to prevent consequences.
	This is why I was pointing out how all-female your environment was, right?
	So, women have an instinct to Not have people suffer the consequences of their own bad choices, because women are designed for an endless cavalcade of babies and toddlers, right?
	They have a whole bunch of kids, and by the time they stop having kids, their kids have kids, and look at that!
	There's a new cavalcade of babies and toddlers.
	And that's how we evolved.
	For them to say, I'm not going to let you suffer the negative consequences of your own bad decisions, because you're three years old!
	And so, but that instinct gets really pathological when you got druggies around.
	Well, I can't let them suffer the consequences of their own bad choices.
	Oh, and you know, that's why they vote for the welfare state, the single moms, and oh, she didn't save her for her retirement, let's give her Social Security, and oh, she had three kids by three different guys, let's give her a lot of money.
	We can't let her suffer the consequences of her own bad choices.
	Oh no!
	Right?
	Because that's the female instinct, and I think it's great, there's no problem with that female instinct, except when it's combined with political power or with an income in this context, right?
	So, yeah, a complete catastrophe.
	In my view, your family would have been infinitely better off if your grandmother had attached any requirements.
	But women generally have a tough time doing that, right?
	I mean, we all know this, right?
	That's why you need men around, right?
	You need men around so that women don't treat everyone like a toddler for their entire fucking lives.
	Yeah, and my mom is totally doing the same thing with my brother right now, like the exact same thing.
	Oh shoot, no negative consequences, and it's nothing to do with love, it's just because the women feel kind of anxious and unhappy if people are suffering.
	And I get that, again, babies and toddlers, yeah, you don't let the baby learn self-discipline by not feeding it, because the baby just dies, right?
	So, I get all of that, but it's got nothing to do with caring for others.
	I mean, outside of the baby and toddler context, it's got nothing to do with caring for others, right?
	You know, and do you understand this?
	Like, the moms are like, you know, knee pads and elbow pads and helmets and like, because the kid is... and it's like, nah, they'll fall.
	They'll be fine.
	They'll learn how to manage risk and, right?
	They're not gonna die, right?
	So, anyway, we'll get to... was it your mom and your brother?
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Uh, do you want to start talking about a little bit, like what happened with you and dating and teens?
	And cause I mean, there aren't exactly, and there's not a big overflow of quality women around, right?
	Or girls today.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I, so I started drinking at age 14 with a friend of mine going to parties drinking, you know, by, by the bottle, basically.
	Okay, so now, I'm sorry to interrupt right after you've just started talking, but okay, tell me, because you saw all the addiction around you, right?
	Yeah.
	And who was drinking in your environment?
	Your mom, right?
	Well, my mom had gotten sober.
	Close to like when I started being around her again.
	So like age three or four, she had been sober.
	But you saw a lot of addiction, right?
	I saw the consequences of the only addiction I actually saw was like smoking because everyone in the house, like my father's house, my grandma's house.
	You knew your father was a drug addict, right?
	No, I didn't learn this until later.
	He had hit it really well.
	Well, to a child, he had hit it really well.
	I don't know about to anyone else.
	This is all stuff he had told me before he passed when I was like 17.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So you had no idea your dad was a drug addict?
	No, I knew my dad didn't work.
	My dad constantly complained about back pains from like a previous back injury because he had fallen off some scaffolding or Something like that.
	And you know, the victim story of the day he was supposed to go to court for that lawsuit for his disability, his dad's funeral was that day.
	So he had to go to his dad's funeral and couldn't reschedule that court date.
	So anyway, one of those victim stories, which I barely believe now that there was nothing he could do.
	Oh yeah, of course.
	Listen, I mean, people miss court all the time and courts are kind of loath to just go around arresting people.
	And if you've got your father's funeral, You just say to your lawyer, tell the court it's my father's funeral, and we'll have to reschedule, and the court would reschedule, I'm sure.
	Yeah, so, anyway, that was the story that I was told, as to why my dad couldn't work, or didn't work.
	Okay, so you weren't around, you were around, I guess, heavy smokers, but you didn't see people drink, and you didn't see people do drugs.
	No, I didn't.
	Okay, got it.
	That is true.
	Okay, that makes a bit more sense now.
	Okay, so then, your friend is like, let's drink alcohol!
	Yeah!
	Yeah, if you can stay off names, that would be excellent.
	I'll make a note of that.
	No problem.
	Okay, so you say you're 14 and you're like, yeah, drinking sounds good.
	Now, so did you, what was your thinking around the drinking?
	Right?
	Somebody says, let's drink.
	And did any part of you say, you know, life is not that great.
	I'm not sure drinking will help.
	No, I didn't have that instinct or thought whatsoever.
	It was, hey, let's try.
	Again, you're laughing about all this stuff, right?
	Uh-huh.
	Like, you're kind of inviting him into a comedy when this is a pretty murderous tragedy and horror show, right?
	And I just, I really, really need you to stop doing that, if you don't mind.
	Because it's really, really weird.
	Like, ha ha ha, I started drinking, I didn't have a sense of self-preservation.
	Like, that's not funny.
	I mean, I'm not trying to be mean at all, right?
	And I have great sympathy.
	But you can't do this.
	It's funny shit.
	Like, I just can't have that conversation at that level.
	And I mean, no, I'm not trying to criticize you at all.
	I'm just saying, I can't do that.
	Because that's incredibly disrespectful to the suffering you experienced as a child to laugh at it.
	And again, I'm not trying to be heavy here.
	I'm not criticizing.
	I'm just saying I can't have that conversation in that weird way.
	It's not that you're doing anything wrong, of course, and I don't mean to imply anything
	like that.
	Bye.
	I just can't do that.
	Like, I can't laugh at your suffering as a kid.
	And I really don't know how to go through it.
	I've heard other calls, and I know, you know, it's a rule, but it's not like a rule.
	It's a rule.
	No, it's just an empathy thing.
	I can't laugh at the brutal abuse and suffering of a child.
	I can't laugh at it.
	Like, I can't.
	Yeah, I will try to do better.
	Okay, so you said, I don't know how, I mean, you've known we're going to do this call for a while, right?
	Yeah.
	So, did you, and again, none of this is a criticism, I'm genuinely curious, did you say to yourself, well, you know, I'm going to have a real habit to giggle about this stuff, right?
	So how am I not going to do that, or are you on automatic pilot over the course of this conversation?
	I'm on... I'm disassociated when I'm going into these memories.
	Okay, so do you think that's helpful or unhelpful?
	I think it's unhelpful.
	I'm sorry?
	It's unhelpful.
	Okay, and again, it's not a criticism, but...
	Why wouldn't you say I should try and stay connected while talking about this stuff because I got one shot with Steph and I don't want to waste time with all this dissociative giggle lofty stuff, right?
	And again, not a criticism, I'm just curious what your planning was for the call or are you aware that you're doing it and you're certainly aware that I don't like and won't giggle at a child's Brutal abuse.
	So, I mean, we've been talking for like 50 minutes, right?
	Almost?
	And I've had to sort of do the please don't giggle stuff a bunch of times.
	Well, I think twice, right?
	So, I suppose, what's the plan for our conversation?
	Are you going to stay this detached and dissociated?
	Because then we should probably reschedule for a time when that's not going to happen.
	Because you're an experienced listener and you kind of know that I'm not going to support that, right?
	I mean, it would just be horrible for me to join you in giggling at your massive and horrendous abuse.
	So, is your plan, and there is a plan, right?
	I mean, you don't just, you know, you're here on time and, right, you know that the call's coming.
	So, if your plan is to stay this dissociated, we should probably reschedule until you can make a commitment to not.
	I'm not saying you've got to sob the whole time we're talking, but not this.
	Not this.
	So, if you can make a commitment to Stop doing this.
	In the call, great, we can continue.
	If you can't, then we reschedule to a time when you can, because I'm not going to spend the next hour wrangling you out of freak-ass comedy land.
	Because none of this is funny at all.
	I think if I slow down it will help?
	Okay.
	Because what I need is the emotional content.
	I don't... I mean, the facts are the usual grim parade of fucked up stuff.
	But the emotional content is where you and I can have a conversation about this, not in this speedrun of sick comedy.
	And again, I'm not in any way critical, and I'm not trying to nag you or anything like that.
	I just... I'm just telling you what I need Inoda for me to help you.
	I think I'm just frightened, Steph.
	I know, I know.
	Of these events, and I've told myself, I've been to therapy, I've sobbed, I've listened to you.
	Then you should be able to, if the emotions are resolved, then you should, and this isn't again like some moral thing, right?
	But if the emotions are resolved, you should be able to talk.
	about things.
	You know, I mean, you hear me talk about my childhood, and I'm trying to hold myself up as some kind of ideal here, but you've heard of me talk about my childhood.
	I don't make it funny, but I'm able to talk about it in a relatively clear and direct fashion.
	Now, you know, I'm more than 20 years older than you, so there's that as well, right?
	That's important.
	But if you have resolved some of the emotions, Then this shouldn't be the GiggleFest speedrun, right?
	Especially because, you know, I really don't like that and won't participate in it.
	And I already reminded you once, and again, I know this sounds like, if I've told you what, I don't mean, I just, this is how detached you are from the narrative, right?
	And again, with sympathy, I understand why, but no, I'm still not going to participate in it that way.
	So, tell me more, you're frightened of what?
	I'm frightened that it's just too much, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'm frightened of not being able to change.
	I know you say we're not rocks rolling down a hill.
	I feel that my hill is so bumpy, so steep.
	that the connections in my brain are already so deep.
	I don't know how to get out of this perpetual chaos.
	Okay, but the problem is that you're not connected in your brain.
	The problem is the avoidance.
	So, I'm gonna just spend a minute or two here, because I really need to frame this for you in a way.
	So, there's a general theory which says, well, if I experience too much suffering, I'm just forever broken, right?
	Like, I went through too much, and my brain is broken, and my soul has fled my body, and I'm an NPC of, you know, comedy, tragedy, or whatever, right?
	That's not my particular view.
	My particular view is, I mean, assuming you live, there's no such thing as irrecoverable trauma, as long as you don't inflict it on others, and especially children.
	And again, we all make mistakes and do things that are kind of mean or whatever, but I'm, you know, like a big thing, like a consistent thing, right?
	So to me, Feeling dwarfed by your trauma is giving it too much power.
	The trauma is just right if you learn the lessons.
	So what is the trauma here for?
	Why does it exist?
	Why does it exist?
	Well, the trauma exists to warn us of danger.
	I still remember when my mom We went camping with one of my mom's boyfriends.
	I think he was at a camper or something.
	And I remember he had a propane.
	lamp and I needed to move it because I was reading a book and I picked up the propane lamp at the base not at the handle and it burned my forefinger and my thumb and I remember putting it in flour and then butter to ease the pain but it hurt.
	I also remember when I was a very little kid maybe like four or so going on a hike in Ireland with my father and my aunts and there was a nettle And somebody said, that's a nettle, and I was curious, so I put my two fingers on the nettle, and, you know, it stung, and it hurt, and all of that.
	Now, you say, oh, that's trauma.
	Well, I mean, to trauma, what is it?
	It's a negative experience.
	But the trauma exists to warn you of danger.
	Now, when you laugh at the trauma, it can't warn you.
	It's like the dream you have where you're trying to warn everyone that there's a big wave coming or the city's on fire and everyone just laughs and thinks you're joking, right?
	Because you're trying to warn people and they're laughing at you so you can't save them.
	So the trauma, it's not like some embedded skeleton in your brain that you can't possibly dislodge without destroying your mind.
	The trauma is the path to safety.
	The trauma is, oh my god did we ever experience some deep evil!
	As children, we experienced some deep evil.
	Now once the trauma has taught you how to be safe, the trauma relaxes.
	But as long as you are still in danger, the trauma will not relax.
	The trauma will not leave you alone.
	Because its sole purpose is to lead you to safety, and if you stay in danger, the trauma cannot relax, you cannot relax, if you won't connect.
	See, people think, oh, if I connect with the trauma, I'm gonna be sad and tragic and sorrowful and go crazy, or like this, just madness, madness and horror, and it's gonna eat me alive, and it's like, no, no, the trauma's just there to lead you out of hell.
	And if you laugh at the trauma, Then there's someone trying to lead you out of hell, and you're laughing at them and burrowing deeper.
	Well, if your trauma didn't care about you, it would leave you be.
	But your trauma keeps coming back, saying, there's a way out, there's a way out, there's a way out, there's a way out.
	And you laugh.
	Which I understand.
	You know, you learned how to deal with your trauma in many different ways, and these are all survival mechanisms as a child.
	But when your father kicked you across the room, you were very clear about that.
	Do you remember what you said about that?
	What was his perspective on kicking you across the room?
	He thought it was hilarious.
	It was the funniest thing ever, right?
	Now, what are you doing?
	With your trauma.
	It's the funniest thing ever.
	It's the same as your dad, right?
	Which you had to, you know, had to ally with your dad because you were locked in hell with a porn and drug addicted, half deranged, whatever, right?
	Psycho.
	Whose entire existence was an assault on your brain!
	Oh yeah, there's ghosts, man!
	Oh, Bigfoot!
	Aliens!
	Aliens stole my Buick!
	Right, this is all a direct assault on your reality processing, a direct assault on your brain.
	Demonically possessed dad was trying to disassemble your brain to match his broken state.
	And he couldn't escape his trauma because he laughed at yours!
	And I won't have you do the same thing, because I don't want you to end up like your dad.
	Your dad laughed at your trauma, laughed at his own.
	And I won't.
	Because, you know, we both know what happened to your dad.
	Not saying it's going to happen to you, but it's a pretty bad end, right?
	Yeah.
	So.
	You can't, you say, because, and the reason I'm saying all of this is what you said.
	It's you, you said, I'm trying to catch you, right?
	But what you said was, I'm indifferent to my wife and child.
	Stay, go, or whatever, right?
	So, you can't be closer to people than you are to your younger self.
	He's the barrier, right?
	If you're distant from your younger self, who can you be close to?
	If you reject yourself, how can you be close to others?
	If you're unimportant to yourself, how can other people be important to you?
	If you have no loyalty and bond with your younger self, how can you have a loyalty and bond to your family?
	Your current family.
	Now, I understand why you would have this dissociation, of course.
	Because you can't connect with your trauma, since your trauma is designed to protect you, you can't connect with your trauma as a child because you cannot be protected.
	Right?
	If you'd woken up to how absolutely horrifying and unbearable your life was as a child, you probably would have jumped off a bridge.
	So you, when everything around you is horror, You detach in order to survive.
	I mean, it's called dissociation, right?
	There's a few people being tortured like I floated above myself.
	It's a way to drive your soul out of your body.
	If you can't protect yourself, you might as well dissociate.
	You have to.
	If you can't stop the pain, turn off the pain!
	But turning off the pain turns off a whole bunch of other things.
	It's like that master switch in the basement of a house.
	There's no individual switches.
	Oh, I'll just turn off the microwave and the upstairs bathroom lights.
	One big power thing.
	I turn off my connection.
	I turn off my trauma.
	I turn off my horror.
	Because I can't be protected.
	So you go into hibernation.
	You freeze your heart waiting for spring, right?
	but the spring is sympathy.
	So why would you accept your trauma which is designed to get you to safety when it is absolutely impossible to
	get to safety?
	Because you're a child and you can't escape.
	And no one's coming to save you, no one's coming to help you, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.
	I mean, you went to school, you had friends, relatives, nobody gave a shit, nobody helped you out, nobody said, my god, you can't have this boy in with a drug addict father in the same room?
	Like, nobody said anything like that.
	Everybody's just chiseling and lying and stealing and embezzling and smoking and throwing money at screwed up people in order to screw them up even more.
	So I truly understand why you'd end up laughing at your trauma.
	But when you laugh at your trauma, you're saying, I can never be safe.
	I can never be safe.
	And that's why I can't participate in the laughing at trauma, because then I'm saying the trauma, like the violence wins, the evil wins, there's no safety, there's no security, and you have to be a child locked in with a crazy psycho addict.
	For the next 50 years, until the day you die.
	And I won't.
	Your trauma can lead you to safety, but you've got to start respecting it and listening to it, because it's there to help.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	I'm having difficult, like I'm kind of stunned, I suppose.
	I think I'm just feeling the feelings now.
	Okay.
	Okay, and what are you feeling?
	You said something about the absolute horrific what I had gone through
	And I appreciate that level of acknowledgement.
	And I think one of my problems is I think there's very few people out there that can
	empathize with that heavy of a load.
	You know, I've seen therapists and no one's ever said, you are a child locked in a room with a drug addict.
	Like no one's ever hit that before.
	Now, again, I'm sorry to interrupt and I'll keep this very brief.
	So it's not quite true that there are a few people who can sympathize with your load.
	The problem is most people don't have philosophy, they don't have a commitment to truth, so they will follow your lead.
	So if you're laughing about it, they'll laugh about it.
	They don't have an independent way to evaluate what went on with you.
	So it's not that they just, well, I have to end up laughing because nobody can carry the load.
	Because you laugh about it and turn it into a kind of comedy, and I'm not saying all of this, right?
	I mean, it wasn't all of it, right?
	But you know where it happens, right?
	And particularly when things get dark and you laugh.
	So most people don't have any standards by which they will communicate.
	They just follow other people's lead.
	Right, so if somebody's, you know, these typical stories, right?
	You know, hey, no really great stories ever started with, and I had a salad, right?
	So people are like, yeah, I started drinking on the, you know, and then this crazy stuff happened, and then we were fleeing from the cops, and then, you know, the car went into the lake, and, you know, like, the people have all of these crazy stories.
	That they are constantly inviting everyone else to laugh at, right?
	And you can see this in sort of these dark stoner comedies.
	Like, yeah, isn't it really funny when you don't have a job or a future and you're an addict?
	Right?
	So, it's not So I hear those kinds of stories and I'm like, well, how is this funny?
	I literally do that.
	This is why I stopped getting invited to parties, thank God, right?
	Because I'd be like, well, that's not funny.
	How is that funny?
	You wrecked a car, you put people in danger, you harmed your health?
	You know, like this guy I once knew, his big claim to fame was he fell asleep at a party holding a beer.
	Somebody tried to take the beer because it was tilting and he woke up, hey, that's my beer!
	Right?
	And this was considered, like, cool.
	You know, look, he's just so focused on drinking and I'm like, that's a sad story.
	Like, he's so desperate for a beer that he only wakes up if somebody tries to take his beer.
	Like, that's an addict.
	That's not funny.
	But if you point that out, everyone gets mad at you, right?
	Everyone's like, you gotta know how to lighten up, man.
	You don't know how to have any fun.
	These are cool stories.
	And it's like, no, they're sad stories.
	They're really sad stories.
	A cool story would be, yeah, I saw this woman screaming at her child and I stepped in to help the child.
	That's a cool story.
	That's an edge case.
	That's dangerous stuff.
	That's exciting stuff.
	Not, I got so drunk I threw up on a cop's shoes.
	That's not a cool story.
	That's... I poisoned myself.
	Ha ha ha ha ha.
	So...
	It's not that people can't sympathize with you.
	It's just that most people would just follow your lead.
	And I'm not blaming you.
	It's just that, what do they know, right?
	They don't have any standard by which they'd say, oh, this is really sad.
	And they've got their own avoidances, right?
	So, if you have, this is the sad thing about life, if you have sympathy with yourself, a lot of people will have sympathy with you.
	If you laugh at yourself, people will just like, okay, I'll just laugh at it, right?
	They don't have any, they're programmed in a way by your approach to it and they don't think of anything different.
	Does that make sense?
	It's like the world is totally cold and there's no sympathy, it's like, if you don't have sympathy for yourself, people will just follow that lead.
	Most people, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	And I think one thing I love about my wife is she has standards.
	You know, she knows about my past and she's like, yeah, I don't think your mom should come live with us.
	Yeah, I don't think, you know, I'm sure if my dad was around, she's like that.
	When was your mom supposed to come live with you?
	It's just this idea of being punted Back and forth in my family.
	And sorry, how long have you listened to what I do?
	Since 2016 or so.
	All right!
	Look at that.
	Nice, cozy eight years.
	Okay.
	So, uh, tell me a little bit about your relationship with your mother.
	No, listen.
	It's almost like you growled that you got through your nose there.
	I've communicated to her how deeply hurt I was about her going to prison jail.
	What, the couple of weeks?
	Yeah.
	Well, that's... that's one grain of sand on a whole fucking beach, isn't it?
	But sorry, go on, I'm interrupting you very rudely, my apologies.
	Sorry, please go ahead with the rest of your... it's just I was surprised you stopped with that.
	But go on And
	It's I I didn't completely defu. I I kind of halfway. No, no,
	sorry, but you had a conversation I'm, sorry to interrupt you you had a conversation with
	your mother about what happened Yeah, about her... You talked about her going to jail, and what else?
	I think it was just focused on that.
	I think just getting on that, you know, she went into tears and hysterics, and I was like, this is not gonna go anywhere.
	So you talked about your suffering, and she dissolved into self-pity and narcissistic, woe is me, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, nothing ever happened from that, and how long ago did you have that conversation?
	Six or so years ago.
	It's it's been a been a while and you and none of this is a criticism obviously And I'm sorry to I don't want to sound like you're some sort of egg.
	That's gonna easily break I just want to make when I'm asking questions a lot of times.
	It sounds accusatory right so you had one conversation with that and Your mother never brought it up again, and you never brought it up again, and then what happened with the relationship from there?
	I moved out a few years after that conversation.
	Oh, so you were living with your mother into your 20s?
	Late 20s?
	Late 20s.
	I was living with my mother, my brother, roommate, in the same house.
	Perpetual chaos, you know?
	So, is your mother still living off the carpal tunnel stuff, or how does she pay her bills?
	You know, social security, carpal tunnel, my stepfather had a pension from the state job that he had.
	So government money and carpal tunnel money from the company she stolen from for a decade.
	Oh God.
	That's corrupt.
	Anyway.
	Okay.
	All right. And I...
	I had some health issues starting at age 20, like these severe, chronic migraines that made it difficult to keep full-time employment.
	Oh man, so much more is coming up.
	I'm sorry, this is in your early 20s?
	Yeah, I had these chronic, horrible migraines.
	We didn't talk much about what happened, and I'm sorry, this is my fault, not yours, because I went on a tangent.
	Well, maybe not a tangent, hopefully not a tangent.
	But you started drinking at 14 and what happened with drinking and other stuff in your teenage years?
	So at age 16, I left my dad's house and went to go live with my mother.
	My brother introduced me to marijuana.
	So I started drinking and using marijuana at age 16.
	And my brother... Sorry, this is one of your half-brothers 10 years older, or was this something else?
	Yeah, this is my half-brother that's 10 years older, yeah.
	And then at age 17, he introduced me to ecstasy and ketamine.
	I went out to parties with him and started using harder drugs.
	And I was an addict myself from age 16 to age 30.
	I mean, off and on with different substances, but age, I just quit marijuana in 2022 as a condition of me and my wife getting married.
	She's like, you got to stop smoking weed.
	So I did, and I haven't looked back, but Uh, various experiences with various substances up until that point, when you talk about my grandmother's money being corruptive, when my grandmother passed away in 2007, my dad got like her retirement 401k or whatever.
	And it was a lump sum.
	And he spent half of it on alcohol, drugs, women.
	Then he passes, and I get what's left of the money.
	It was about $60,000, and I gave— So, sorry, your dad burned through a couple of hundred thousand dollars before he killed himself?
	Probably about 20, 30 grand, something like that in a period of six months.
	Okay.
	And then I burned, you know, I, it took me longer, like 10 years or so.
	I mean, part of that was spent on education, but I burned through another like 60 grand or so not working, doing drugs.
	I had a girlfriend that became my wife at the time.
	So this is my second marriage.
	Uh, and so I just wanted to piggyback on that.
	My, my grandmother's money being, being corrosive, like it was from start to finish, my grandmother's was corrosive.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So living with mom from age 16 up through, uh, What got me out of there was A, I got healthy.
	Uh, I had quit the harder substances, the harder drugs.
	I had stopped going to like raves and parties.
	I got, you know, full-time employment.
	Uh, I, I, I did divorce my first wife.
	Uh, and.
	It was fights with my brother, mainly.
	I just couldn't take his dysfunction, him abusing his kids, yelling at them.
	A lot of stuff parallels what I went through growing up.
	Sorry, this is the asshole who introduced you to marijuana and then harder drugs when you were in your mid-teens?
	Late teens, so like 16, 17, yes.
	16 is mid.
	I mean, you're still a child, right?
	Yeah.
	So he handed over drugs and encouraged a child to take drugs.
	Yeah.
	Sorry, why is there a pause there?
	Feelings.
	And what are the feelings?
	Anger, which I think is right.
	Anger.
	You know, he knew my parents' history.
	And yet, you know, it's not like his life, you know, he's he's a layabout, pretty much, you know, a straight loser.
	So what does he live on?
	Mom.
	He lives off mom.
	Oh, God.
	OK.
	All right.
	I mean, to me, there's nothing there's nothing bad enough that can happen to people who give drugs to kids.
	Hmm.
	You know, like if you'd have said about this guy, oh yeah, no, he fell off a ladder and he's in chronic pain, I'd be like, good.
	Good, I hope it hurts.
	I hope it hurts more.
	I hope it gets worse.
	Excuse me.
	You know, my daughter is 16, right?
	Sorry, my daughter is 15, which is, you know, a year shy of when this guy's getting you into drugs.
	Yeah, and he got many teenagers into drugs.
	Yeah, just an evil corrupting force.
	Sorry, I feel like I've gotten lost somewhere.
	No, no, I just wanted to find out what happened in your teens with the drinking.
	So you spent, what, 14 years on drugs?
	Yeah, about there.
	I mean, I know you count it, so yes, including the regular use of marijuana.
	Which is a drug!
	Yes.
	All right.
	And on the harder drugs, how long?
	10 years?
	I'm sorry, I just wanted to make sure I get that roughly straight.
	It doesn't have to be perfect.
	Like seven years or so on, you know, as far as like regular use, and then it would be like You know, I'd go see a friend and he would have picked something up, so I'd do like a couple of lines.
	And no work, right?
	I was going to college at the time.
	Through all this chaos, I did get a bachelor's degree and a master's degree through all this chaos.
	Psychology, of all things.
	Huh.
	Okay.
	And did you end up using it in any way?
	Yeah, I have done therapy with other people.
	I've run intensive outpatient groups.
	I've done intakes.
	Sorry, we don't have to get into details.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, you really have no excuse to be laughing into trauma, do you?
	No, it's the exact same thing I tell my clients.
	They tell me terrible things.
	But not a job, right?
	I say working, you say school.
	School is not working, right?
	Yeah, not a job.
	Yeah, there was a good 10 years there where I didn't work.
	I mean, just genuine curiosity, you know, like I have three shows today, I'll be working on the Peaceful Parenting book, I got a call with you, I got a call at one, I got a live stream at seven, and you know, maybe I'm working a little too hard, but what do you do when you don't have a job?
	I assume you didn't have any big hobbies.
	What do you do with your day?
	Is it like video games and videos, or what?
	I mean, I think, you know, me and my, my girlfriend who became my wife, you know, we'd, we'd go use some drugs, go hang out at the mall.
	We would go to like a party.
	We'd go to like over to a friend's house.
	Cause like my, my friends didn't work either.
	So I had another friend.
	Right.
	That just so happened to come in some money because a relative has died as well.
	So we would hang out all the time because both of us kind of felt like we had money and we could just not work and just kind of party.
	And my girlfriend at the time, she would work for her mom's business like some days too.
	So my girlfriend would work for most of the day.
	And then I would do like my schoolwork.
	And a chaotic household does require a lot of work to keep clean, help nieces and nephews with homework, babysitting nieces and nephews, getting calls about my sister being in an argument with her boyfriend.
	So there's a lot of other chaotic stuff that keeps you busy.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	Okay, so, we were talking, there was a thread there that my brain will sort of scamper back
	and circle back to pick up shortly, but tell me about your relationship with your mother,
	as you were sort of moving through your twenties and early thirties.
	A lot of me just not acknowledging how horrible she is.
	My stepfather would legit say my mother is an evil woman, an evil, evil woman.
	See, when she didn't get her way, screamer, crier, cry bully, as you would say, just completely unchained and then would fall apart into like depressions of just laying in bed or only playing like solitaire on the computer or these computer games, you know, And having dogs or pets that she would barely take care of.
	And just that, well, I've got to stay here because I'm not working.
	Yes, I have a bunch of money.
	But I don't have a job, so I'm smart enough not to commit to moving out, which in retrospect was actually a not intelligent decision.
	Sorry, she said, I didn't have a job, but what?
	I was talking about myself, about how I had money, but I didn't have income.
	So to me, you know, it's cheaper to stay here.
	And that's the price that I pay for staying there, right?
	taking that money and moving out.
	Oh yeah, it was like the most expensive money of your life, right?
	It cost you like 10 years right away, right?
	Right.
	But good for you for getting the education of course, right?
	Let's not forget that.
	I don't want to gloss over that.
	That's like half a decade, right?
	Yeah, so that's really saving my butt right now, is me having my education actually.
	And why does your stepfather, what does he have complaints about with your mother that he says she's an evil woman?
	Like, what is his experience?
	Just, there was no reasoning with her.
	Again, like that matriarchy.
	Just, my mom...
	Ruled.
	Uh, I'm trying to think of a specific example.
	You know, my, my step father would like to go to like the swap meet and bring things home from the swap meet, you know, little trinkets or whatever.
	But you know, my stepfather made the money, you know, that was like his hobby, you know, woodworking, guitar, playing music.
	Sorry, what is a swap meet?
	A swap meet?
	I mean, I think I get it, but to tell me more.
	It's usually take place like a high school parking lot or something where like little vendors have like little tents or like pop-up where it's just like a plastic table or like a lunch table where they're just selling, you know, they could sell clothes, they could sell shoes, they could sell jewelry if they wanted to, like you rent space, you know, usually they're on like Saturdays.
	So you just go to the swap meet if you want something cheap, you know, back in the day when like bootleg DVDs were like a thing, you could go to the swap meet and just buy bootleg DVDs of whatever movies.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	And how long were they married for again?
	10 years.
	So they were married when I, yeah, about when I was age 10, they got married till I was about 20 when he passed.
	Hmm.
	What did he die of?
	Cancer, uh, related to, uh, hips, hip hep C related to his intravenous drug use, uh, when he was there.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	So you live with your mom until what age?
	30.
	I think 30.
	Yeah, 30.
	Okay.
	And you had, at one point, six or seven years ago, you had one conversation with her where she manipulated you into silence by all of this hysterical self-pity, right?
	Right.
	Because there's no genuine emotions there, right?
	I mean, sorry, I'm saying this like it's self-evident, right?
	But all of these tears and, like, it's just... it's a mechanical form of manipulation.
	It's not any real emotion, right?
	I mean, this is why actors are considered so disreputable, is that they're really good at faking emotions, but faking emotions come... comes from manipulating the shit out of children, usually.
	Oh, he's such a good actor.
	It's like, yeah, he inherited the child abuse genes of bottomless manipulation by faking emotion.
	So she didn't have any genuine sorrow.
	She's just like, oh, I'm going to have to try this strategy because it looks like some truth is coming my way.
	Oh good, I've chased it away and it continues to be chased away six to seven years later.
	Yeah, there's absolutely no emotional...
	Uh, content.
	I don't know if that's the right word, but emotional.
	The truth is drowned in female tears a lot of times and male aggression and all of that.
	But so, um, what's the status of your relationship with her now?
	I'd say it's a emotional, there's no emotional, it's contextual, uh, in that We mainly communicate through text, the occasional call.
	My eldest sister is encouraging all of us siblings to contact mom once a week, because she's starting to have early dementia signs.
	And so just checking on her, making sure she's taking her medications.
	Sorry, I'm just a little... As soon as we start talking about your mom, we go back into dissociation land?
	And I'll tell you why I think that.
	I could be wrong, of course, right?
	I'll tell you why I think that.
	So you said, with regards to your mother, there's no real emotion, right?
	As opposed to which of your relationships?
	What do you say with your wife and your daughter?
	There's no particular bond.
	Your younger self, you have no emotional connection to.
	Like, you say, well, I don't have much of an emotional connection with my mother.
	Compared to what?
	Damn that hits hard stuff And do you, did you notice that at all?
	I mean, your whole first part of your email to me is like, I don't have any emotional connection with my family.
	I could take them or leave them.
	And then you say, well, but my mother, you know, there's no real emotional connection there.
	And like, yes, I know, but... And we just had to give you like 10 minute speech on no emotional connection with your younger self, right?
	You know, when I wrote that, and when you read it back to me, I don't translate that I could take him or leave him as no emotional connection.
	As sad as that is.
	So you don't have emotional connection to you saying you have no emotional connection?
	Well, of course you don't, right?
	Right?
	If you're indifferent to people being there or not being there, there's a lack of emotional connection.
	Right?
	If I have a prized book, right?
	So, I had many years ago, I had, I may still have it somewhere, a first print of The Fountainhead, right?
	A very prized.
	Now, if that got stolen, I'd be really upset, right?
	It's one big influential book in me and for me and all that, right?
	And so, I have an emotional attachment to that book.
	Right?
	If it was, you know, some places you go, they have like, you know, take a book, leave a book kind of thing, and I just pick up some book, and I maybe at some point I'll get around to reading it.
	If someone steals that, I don't have an emotional connection.
	I, you know, may be mildly annoyed, but there's nothing, nothing big there, right?
	People die every day, right?
	Tens of thousands of people die around the world every day.
	Doesn't break my heart, I don't even know them.
	someone close to me dies, that's a big deal, right?
	Yeah, and...
	Sorry, you say, yeah, like, this is slightly debatable, and, you know, we can debate it,
	I guess, but it seems kind of axiomatic, that if you don't care whether people are there or not,
	you don't have a bond.
	and you
	You know, like these rabbits, the rabbits are all feeding in the field, some hawk comes and takes the rabbit, they all just look up, shrug, and go back to eating.
	Whereas if a baby elephant dies, the mother grieves for six months.
	Yeah, and I would be sad if my wife and child left.
	I would absolutely be sad.
	Alright, I'll have to go back to your message, because I sure as heck don't want to get this part wrong.
	So, let me just go back.
	to your message, and I'm not trying to catch you out, or, you know, well, you said this, I'm just, I just want to make sure if I have an inaccurate understanding, right?
	However, I will say you are still right, and the message still says true, because in my mind, I'm like, okay, if she does leave and take the kid, I will just go back to my addictions and disassociate, and in that I will be okay.
	Now, do you know another reason?
	So, nine-month-old child together, overall feeling of being unattached from my wife and child.
	I mean, I love them.
	them I also feel like I could take them or leave them.
	Right?
	And also, you said the child, not my child, just now.
	Take the kid, take the child, not my child, my daughter, my son.
	Yeah, I also feel like I could take them or leave them.
	Overall feeling of being unattached from my wife and child.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I didn't have that wrong.
	So what are you doing?
	Why are we changing stories here?
	Because you're saying no emotional attachment and I know I would be sad if they left.
	I'll see you next time.
	All right, so... So this is quibbling, right?
	Okay.
	And the quibbling is, you say, I don't have any real emotional detachment, and then I say, well, you have no emotional detachment.
	You're like, well, I have some!
	Well, of course you have some!
	But you're indifferent as to, you could take them or leave them.
	They're here and they're not here, and there's not a huge difference in your heart.
	Now, just when I'm saying, do you have absolutely zero emotional, like zero, like the way that somebody in India dies, I don't even know them.
	Of course I'm not saying that, but it's quibbling.
	Right?
	So I say, no emotional attachment.
	You say, well, it's not none.
	And it's like, okay, so let's say it's 10% or 20%.
	So you're quibbling at the none, right?
	And saying, well that's not technically accurate.
	It's like, well of course it's not technically accurate!
	How do we get technically accurate in the percentage of attachment?
	How many decimal places do we need to go to for it to be technically accurate?
	And I guarantee you this was a habit of your mother's.
	and Right, so this is the female habit, right?
	And I'm not saying that you're female, obviously, right?
	But the female habit is you make a generalization and they say, well, it's not totally accurate.
	Women are shorter than men.
	I know a tall woman.
	Women tend not to go into stem.
	I know a woman who went into stem.
	So I'm making a generalized statement based upon what you said about a lack of attachment to your wife and child.
	And you're saying, well it's not zero, and it's like, who cares?
	Of course it's not zero.
	But it's a lack of attachment.
	I don't even know what zero would mean.
	Like, what does that even mean?
	You married a woman, you have a child with her, you've spent nine months with your child, and of course there's a... I mean, you'd notice if they were gone, right?
	Of course you'd have some emotions about them leaving, but you said, I can take them or leave them.
	You know, I can just go back into doing drugs.
	Yeah, and at least I won't have someone looking over my shoulder when I'm looking at porn or something, right?
	Right.
	So, this is an annoying female defense.
	And again, men do it sometimes too, I guess as we can say, but generally the habit comes from women, that they make a general statement and then you take them on that general statement and then they say, well it's not a perfectly accurate general statement.
	And, well, of course.
	You know, if you say IQ is related to success, you'd say, well, I know high IQ people who aren't successful.
	It's like, yeah, I mean... It's just a way, it's a way of blocking the progress of the conversation.
	Because it's going somewhere you don't want it to go.
	Or, to be more accurate, we're talking about you and your mom.
	And your mother does not want this line of conversation pursued.
	And so she's throwing up this, in your mind, right?
	She's throwing up these blocks to the conversation so that we end up discussing what percentage of attachment you have rather than looking at what's going on with you and your mom.
	Does that make sense?
	Like this is just your mom stepping in to block the conversation because she doesn't want, she doesn't want it to go where it's gonna go.
	And you don't either, to some degree, right?
	Yeah, I mean, that's a difficult thing to admit.
	That sucks.
	I mean, that's horrible.
	It's tragic.
	Sorry, what is?
	Me being not attached to my family.
	I mean, that's absolutely horrible.
	No, you need to admit it.
	It's right at the beginning of your email.
	That's not the problem.
	The problem is not your lack of attachment to your family.
	The problem is we're starting to talk about you and your mom and you start quibbling about inconsequentialities because you don't want this part of the conversation to go forward.
	Or rather it's negative to your mom and her interests.
	So you start quibbling with me to annoy me so to distract me from what's going on with your mom.
	I mean, do you follow what I'm saying?
	I'm not saying do you agree with it at all, but do you sort of follow the reasoning?
	Yeah, I do follow the reasoning.
	Because you're now quibbling about something.
	You said, I can take him or leave him, and I say, well, there's no attachment.
	You say, well, it's not zero!
	Like we get into this nonsense, right?
	Yeah.
	And, you know, it's like going to the doctor.
	He says, you've got a big, big tumor.
	And you're saying, well, I'm not an entire tumor.
	I'm not, my whole body's not a tumor.
	It's like, what the hell does that mean?
	Can we deal with the tumor?
	Now, if you don't want to talk about your mother, it's your, it's your call, man.
	I'm here to serve.
	If you don't want to talk about your mother.
	But every time you dissociate the most, you're talking about your mom.
	Oh, wow.
	That's... okay.
	I always thought my dad was the bigger issue.
	Your dad's dead, and has been for fourteen years, thirteen years?
	Fifteen plus, mid-thirties, right?
	Died when he killed himself when you were nineteen, right?
	And your dad is obvious!
	Your dad is obviously screwed up, and the danger is real, right?
	And vivid.
	But you are unprotected with your mother.
	Because you are neither honest with her, she has not apologized and made restitution, and you're still in contact with her.
	Which means you're still enslaved to her preferences, which is called dissociation.
	Dissociation is when we're hypnotized by somebody else's needs because we're in a state of danger.
	All that schooling and psychology and no one ever hit that.
	Well, no, but I mean, I'm a moralist, right?
	So I'm looking at the moral stuff.
	Right, so your father, your stepfather, referred to your mother as stone evil, right?
	your mother is, as far as I can understand it, a criminal, and your mother is exploitive,
	and she won't take responsibility for the immorality that she enacted and enabled.
	She abandoned you to be locked into a room with a psycho drug addict.
	Right?
	She would say something else.
	Okay, good.
	Let's talk to her.
	Okay, so, you pretend to be her, because I think I need to meet this chick.
	So, you pretend to be her, and I'd say, Mom, you know, we had this one conversation like, I don't know, six or seven years ago about...
	My childhood and how messed up it was, and, I mean, we've got to revisit this, because, you know, I've got some severe problems in my marriage, and my capacity to pair-bond, and, like, this is, you know, it was really, really messed up.
	So, yeah, let's sit down and have a talk about it.
	Well, what do you want from me?
	I got sober soon after you were born.
	I'm sorry I just told you what I want from you and then your first question is what do you want from me?
	I told you I want to sit down and talk about my childhood.
	So when I say I want to sit down you know it's like the waiter comes and you say I want a burger and he says well what do you want?
	It's like I just told you I want a burger so I'm not sure why you'd say that but the fact that you got sober okay that's fine but you know that Dad was a drug addict.
	I mean, you knew that before.
	A drug addict and a drug dealer.
	You knew that before you married him and had a child with him, right?
	So, I just need to sort of understand what was going on and how... I mean, I ended up locked in the room with this... half locked in the room.
	I couldn't really leave, right?
	I was locked in the room with a guy who smoked two and a half packs a day.
	That has messed up my health.
	He was half insane, a drug addict and drug dealer, you know, watching pornography with a kid in the room.
	I mean it was really messed up and where were you?
	Why wasn't I taken out of that situation?
	Why didn't you ever ask me how it was going with the guy you couldn't stand to live with that I was locked in a room with?
	You couldn't stand to live with him!
	And you walked away for years, me being locked in a room with a guy you couldn't even stand to be in the same house with.
	Like, what happened?
	Well, in your early childhood, you know, we sent you over to your grandmother because I had to go to rehab again.
	Yeah, but not for years.
	You don't go to rehab for years.
	So, rehab is not an answer.
	Rehab is what?
	A month or two?
	So, no.
	Let's try that one again.
	But, you know, please, just, I'm begging you, tell me the truth.
	Like, don't insult us both with this nonsense, right?
	Just tell me the truth.
	That's all I'm asking, right?
	Just tell me the truth.
	But don't give me these silly excuses which don't make any sense, right?
	Is that okay?
	I think my mom would just start crying at that point.
	OK, so then I'd say, OK, that's fine, you can take a breath, take a moment.
	But, you know, I do need you to actually focus on me and listen to me, right?
	So, you know, I just say, you know, a couple of deep breaths, get a glass of water.
	You might need some rehydration with all of these crocodile tears.
	No, I wouldn't say that.
	It'd be a bit inflammatory.
	Fake tears are costly on the salt system.
	So I'd say, okay, couple of deep breaths, all right?
	Let's continue, right?
	Because I'm the one who's upset, right?
	So if I'm upset and you start crying, it's selfish, right?
	You're making it all about you.
	Now, the reason that I would say, okay, yeah, have your tears and let's get back to the conversation is what would happen next if I did that as you.
	She would most likely just shut down, she wouldn't take the deep breaths, she would become inconsolable, really.
	Okay, then I will say, so I'm suffering, and you're only focused on your own suffering, you know, I literally would snap my fingers in front of her face, like, come on, come back, come back, it's not about you, it's about me, it's about me, come on, focus on me, come on, I'm up, I'm up here, up here, stop falling into yourself, it's about me, not about you.
	And I would just keep doing that.
	And then what would happen?
	She'd probably say, oh, well, I have to go walk the dogs.
	Say, no, no, I need you to stay here and talk to me.
	Dogs can wait.
	Dogs can wait.
	So, just stay here, take a deep breath, and I'll continue.
	Right?
	And then what?
	I think it's just more and more excuses to not can It's more and more excuses.
	Okay, and you just broke a record, right?
	No, I need you to stay with me.
	Come on.
	I'm right here.
	Take a deep breath.
	Let's get back to the conversation.
	Right?
	I mean, if I'm supposed to survive Dad for years, you can survive a half hour conversation, right?
	Because you abandoned me to Dad for years.
	Which means clearly you think that kids can handle being locked up with a psycho drug addict for years.
	So if you think that kids are that tough and that strong, surely you can handle a conversation for half an hour.
	Right?
	Because your premise is people are strong.
	You treated me as if I was like, I don't know, bulletproof or something.
	And so, you know, since you believe that people are so strong and so tough that I didn't need to be taken care of as a kid and I could be abandoned to a chain-smoking psycho, Then you can, you know, you accept that people are strong.
	I was strong as a kid.
	And if I could handle this at the age of eight, you can handle 20 minutes, a half hour of a challenging conversation now that you're an adult or you've been an adult for a while, I guess.
	But yeah.
	Okay.
	So deep breath.
	Let's get back to it.
	And then what?
	Well, I had your brother and your sister.
	Bye for now.
	Bye.
	you That I was helping out too, and I was in a one-bedroom apartment.
	I had to rent out a room to make rent.
	There was really, really no place for you.
	What do you mean there was no place for me?
	Did you ask?
	Did you say, hey, you know, maybe you can just come sleep on a couch, or we can get some, a little air mattress, or, you know, from one of these swap meets, and, you know, we'll, we'll find a place, because, you know, did you ever ask me what I wanted?
	Did you ever, I don't remember you ever saying, how's it going with your dad, or this is a difficult situation, what would you prefer, what would you like, what would be best for you?
	I don't remember you doing a goddamn thing to ask me what I wanted.
	Because if you had, I'd have said, get me out of this 6x12 insane asylum.
	Right?
	So you didn't ask me.
	You never inquired as to how I was doing or what I needed.
	Why not?
	Well, I hated having you over there.
	I knew how bad it was.
	Your grandmother, you know, she had the guardianship over you.
	She wouldn't let me do anything.
	What do you mean she wouldn't let you do anything?
	Mom, you sued a company you stole from.
	Are you saying you couldn't contact a lawyer to try and get some custody with me?
	Wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to come and take some photographs of the room I was living in and get custody?
	What do you mean you couldn't do anything?
	You sued someone you stole from and you're still living off that money.
	So you know how to work the legal system.
	What are you talking about?
	Now you're all rubber bones and helpless?
	You think a court would say, yeah, no, that kid living with the chain-smoking drug addict who's showing him or watching porn, yeah, that's great.
	Yeah, that's totally fit.
	Totally fine.
	Of course a court would have helped.
	Or even just give me some relief and have me over more.
	Or at least just ask me how I'm doing.
	Show some care.
	Show that I matter.
	Show that you think of me.
	Which you didn't do.
	Well, when I would ask how you're doing, you would just be silent,
	or you just wanted to play video games.
	times.
	Yeah.
	You know, me and your stepdad took you out.
	You know, we went to amusement parks.
	We went to the movies.
	Sorry, mom.
	Are you trying to are you trying to are you trying to tell me that it's my fault that I didn't That you asked me once or twice, I didn't say much, and therefore, it's my fault?
	Like, whose fault is it to get information out of a child?
	Whose responsibility is it to get information out of a child?
	And you shouldn't even have had to ask, because you already told me, you just told me, if you remember, you told me I knew how bad it was for you.
	And then you're saying, well, you never told me!
	Right?
	You understand those two things are completely contradictory, right?
	They can't both be true.
	If you say, I knew how bad it was for you, then you can't also say, well, I didn't know because you didn't tell me.
	So which is it?
	Because one of those is a lie I knew it was bad
	And I knew not to ask questions I know.
	Okay, so hang on.
	So, you just lied to me.
	Because you said you did ask questions, but I didn't answer.
	And now you say I knew not to ask questions.
	So, Mom, I need you to not lie to me, okay?
	And I also need you to apologize for lying to me.
	You just lied to me.
	And put the blame on me for not telling you.
	And I need you to apologize for that, because that's bad behavior.
	It's bad to lie to someone and blame them for the abuse they suffered as a child, right?
	When you're the mother, you're in charge.
	So, you do recognize that you lied to me, right?
	Just now.
	About something really important.
	You know how your dad could get.
	I didn't want to make it worse for you.
	Okay, back up.
	Did you hear what I said?
	What did I just want?
	There's no way my mom would apologize.
	What would she say?
	I'm... I'm not... I'm not sorry for that. I... I...
	I feel I have the right reasons, and I cleaned up the way that I did— Sorry, do you—I don't know, I don't—the clean-up stuff is not what I was talking about.
	Okay, do you remember, like, literally ten, fifteen seconds ago, I told you what you lied about?
	Do you remember what I said?
	No.
	Give it to me again.
	Sorry, do you not remember because you weren't listening?
	Because if you're not listening, hey, look, if you don't want to have the conversation, I mean, I understand it's difficult, if you're just not going to listen to me, I'm not going to pretend to have a conversation.
	You know, like if you put your hands in your ears like a toddler and said, la, la, la, la, I'm not listening, then I wouldn't have the conversation.
	So, if you're not listening, that's, you know, just tell me.
	Tell me, say, I have no intention of listening to you, I'm just going to lie and make things up and blame you, and that's fine if you're going to tell me that, because I don't know How it's possible that i just said something ten seconds
	ago and you have no idea what i said.
	No i'm not gonna listen to this.
	We should be past this.
	That was a long time ago.
	Well, your carpal tunnel was a long time ago.
	You're still taking the money, so I don't know about that.
	So, okay, so you're saying to me that you're not going to listen.
	Yeah, if you're going to blame me for things and say that things are my fault, or I should have done this, or I should have done that... I'm sorry, when it comes to the parent and the child, do you think the parent is more responsible, or is the child more responsible?
	I mean, just out of curiosity, we don't have to go in depth in my circumstance, but just, you know, philosophically in general, do you think that I, at the age of six, was more responsible than you were at the age of thirty-six?
	Just in general.
	Like, who is responsible for... Did I have a lot of choice and agency at the age of six?
	Is that your theory?
	Yeah, she'd shut it down.
	and she... Okay, what would she say?
	I'm... I'm not doing this.
	And, you know, with tears and everything, of course, but I'm not, I'm not doing this.
	I did the best I could.
	What more can you want from me?
	Look, your stepdad died.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Do you feel like you're doing the best you possibly can in this conversation?
	Like you're lying to me, you're blaming me, you won't take any responsibility, you keep dissolving into tears of self-pity, you won't listen to me.
	Like do you feel... Sorry to make you laugh because it's not funny but it is a little funny to me in a way.
	Do you feel like you're doing the very best you can in this conversation when I'm pleading
	for some facts about my childhood and you're lying to me and blaming me?
	Could you do better?
	Could you actually listen and show some sympathy?
	take some responsibility.
	I don't know how to continue in the role play with that staff.
	Well, I can tell you what would happen.
	Okay.
	She would explode in rage.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Isn't that the powder keg that's at the bottom of all of this bullshit?
	Right?
	She would just explode in rage.
	Again, I don't want to tell you, of course, that I know for certain, but this personality structure I've seen about a million times before, and if you are patient and persistent and not abusive, they will just explode in rage.
	Because you hit the hot wire of their conscience.
	which they can't stand.
	So, and even if she didn't, if she just kept denying, right, and she got up to walk the dog, so I'd say, okay,
	listen, obviously no problem, then we'll pick this up the next time we talk.
	And we will continue to pick this up the next time we talk, until you either talk to me, or I just stop talking to you.
	Like, just so you know, I'm having this conversation with you.
	And you can go walk the dogs and then when you come back we'll pick up the conversation and you can storm out of the house and you can not call me for a week and then when you text me I'll start this conversation up again.
	Like the only way you can escape this conversation is to never talk to me again because I'm having this conversation with you if we're in contact and the only way to not have this conversation is to avoid our contact with me because I deserve the truth and I deserve some respect.
	And I certainly deserve some honesty and I deserve not to be manipulated and I deserve to have you focus on my feelings because you did a lot of harm as a parent.
	So this conversation is going to happen or no conversations are going to happen, just so you're aware.
	Are you threatening me?
	No, I'm just telling you the consequences.
	I'm going to have this conversation or I'm not going to have a conversation.
	No hate, I'm just telling you that's a fact.
	And then she'd, you know, storm out, and then she'd try pretending nothing happened, and you'd just, broken record.
	Okay, great, now we're back in conversation, let's talk more about my childhood, and then she'd storm out again, and then she'd text you like nothing happened, and, you know, you just, broken record, right?
	Okay, great, we're in contact again. Let's pick up this conversation.
	And then what? Would she...
	would she rather stop talking to you than have an honest conversation about
	your childhood?
	Probably stop talking.
	Okay, so you don't matter to her.
	And that's the price of being in contact with your mother, is her coldness infects every relationship you pretend to have.
	Her selfishness, her coldness, her indifference to the suffering of others infects you.
	And kills your bond with your wife and child.
	I would have a lot of words about my mother, but coldness wouldn't be it, but... Oh no, she's cold, man.
	No, no, no.
	Absolutely.
	I got that coldness right out of this roleplay.
	Because she's only thinking about herself, she's completely indifferent to your suffering, she's only thinking about how to maneuver and win in the moment.
	I was cold.
	Right?
	So, I, as you, was saying, I'm really suffering, and she didn't care.
	Right?
	She didn't care.
	She only cared about protecting her own ego and her own narrative and, right?
	Shutting down the conversation.
	We care about you How is that cold
	Just because somebody is hyper-emotional, or uses emotions as a bully mechanism, that doesn't mean that they're not cold.
	Somebody can be sobbing and crying tears of blood. They're still stone-cold.
	But you know, you know your mother obviously way better than I do.
	do.
	you So, tell me how her indifference to your suffering is not cold.
	I think I, up until this point, would just make excuses for her, and this makes sense my wife's attitude towards my mother, even though she hasn't communicated it.
	Don't get me started on your wife, brother!
	Your wife.
	I'm sure she's a wonderful woman and I'm glad that she has some empathy.
	But your wife should be treating your mother as an environmental toxin that's destroying her marriage.
	She should be like black mold and asbestos in the baby room.
	Like a house on fire.
	Well, maybe it's not such a great idea she come live with us.
	It's like she doesn't have a sense of the urgency.
	I mean, she has said the words, I don't think your mother loves you, or I don't think your mother cares about you.
	Well, that's not even remotely true.
	There's tons of people who don't care about me because they've never even heard of me, right?
	They don't care about me.
	But the people who raised you, raise you up or tear you down.
	Right?
	So, oh, she doesn't love you.
	That's point one percent of the problem.
	That your mother voluntarily had a child with a raging drug addict, was abusive towards you, neglected you, threw you down a pit with a drug addict for years, only has self-pity, abused her late husband to the point where he called her stone evil, steals Sues the company she steals from for free money.
	I mean, do you think just, oh it's a lack of love, do you think that's 0.1% of the problems?
	Does she spend much time, your mother, does she spend much time around your child?
	No, we're in different states.
	she has not even met my child.
	And your mother is aging out of her mental acuity as far as I understand it,
	based upon what you said.
	Right?
	Was it Alzheimer's?
	It's leading in that direction.
	The doctors are kind of leading it more towards her other mental health issues.
	The result is the same, though.
	Sorry, what are her other mental health issues?
	Officially diagnosed bipolar, schizoaffective, OCD, obsessive-compulsive.
	Is she a hoarder, too?
	No, not a hoarder.
	Okay.
	No.
	So, if she has all of this stuff going wrong with her brain, then her defenses should cease to operate at times, right?
	But they don't.
	Her defenses operate perfectly.
	Right?
	She never accidentally shows empathy or whatever, right?
	Like, when we were having that role play, her defenses worked perfectly.
	They were impenetrable, right?
	So it's hard for me to say somebody has a really broken brain when the defenses are all perfectly efficient.
	It's like saying my car doesn't work and then taking it on a road trip for six months with no problems.
	If the defenses are perfect the mind is not broken.
	Do you see what I mean?
	If people say, well I can't remember it was so long ago, it's like, okay well then you shouldn't remember your defenses.
	But if you remember all of your defenses, then you can't claim to lack memory.
	So, she's... and the prognosis is what, roughly?
	You don't have to give me the medical stuff, but she's not getting better, right?
	Most likely.
	I mean, no, I don't think so.
	Some of it has to do with her taking better care of herself, eating better, getting her sleep.
	Okay, is she doing any of that?
	I don't know.
	I haven't, I'm not, I'm not at the house and I don't talk to my brother who's, who's normally with her.
	So I, I'm, I'm unaware.
	So you don't, but you said you talk once a week, right?
	Me and my mother.
	Yes.
	Through texts.
	Uh, lately it's been about the taxes.
	Cause I had her do mine and my wife's, our family's taxes.
	What?
	Your mom's doing, doing your taxes?
	Yeah.
	Then can't she work?
	Oh wait, she's got significant mental issues, but she can do your taxes.
	Yeah.
	Hey, look at that, you saved a little bit of money.
	Yeah.
	Oh my god, man.
	Ugh.
	But doesn't her carpal tunnel syndrome prevent her from doing the taxes?
	She had the surgeries.
	Oh, so then she should have informed the company that's paying her that she's fixed.
	Otherwise she's just stealing again.
	Again, I'm no lawyer, but isn't that kind of how it works?
	I'm guess... I don't know.
	This gets into, like, legal... No, but okay, let's just forget the legal.
	What about the moral thing?
	You say, give me money because of this injury, you take some of that money, you use it for surgery, that fixes the injury.
	You should at least inform them, right?
	My assumption is their agreement is for all suffering, or... I don't know how it works out.
	Okay, well let me just ask you this, because of course neither of us are lawyers, right?
	Is it your opinion that the money that your mother is getting, is it moral?
	No.
	Okay.
	So then, if it's not moral, then she's, in your view, right, your opinion, she's stealing.
	That is correct, yeah.
	Okay, again, we're not talking about any legal matters, we're just talking about your personal opinion, right?
	In the little that I know, that doesn't seem like a crazy opinion to me.
	Okay.
	So, what's the plus of your mother in your life?
	What's the benefit?
	And I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm genuinely curious, right?
	But what's the plus?
	I'm going to try and word this the best way that I can.
	The end.
	the last attachment to my past and my father because my siblings aren't what,
	you know, were related through my mother but not through my father.
	And that horrible experience, ah, Ah.
	I'm grasping at straws here.
	So, blood and connection is important, right?
	Okay.
	So, if blood and connection is so important, why are you less connected to your daughter?
	I mean, she's your blood, isn't she?
	And she's also your blood who's never hurt a hair on your head.
	Just one correction, it's a son.
	Son.
	Okay, sorry.
	It's okay.
	Even more!
	Same, same, same sex.
	Okay.
	So if blood is important, then why are you somewhat indifferent to your son?
	Because, I mean, your mother, in my view, treated you horribly.
	the comments below.
	I'll see you next time.
	And your son has never hurt you at all.
	So why would you have more loyalty to someone who abused you, or neglected you, as opposed to your son, who you share just as much genetics with, who's never hurt you at all.
	in fact probably worships and adores you.
	I do not want to infect him with my...
	No, answer the question.
	Don't, don't, don't pull a mom and ignore the question completely.
	It's so weird.
	I don't know why people do that.
	Why do you do that?
	I just, I just made a case here and you just completely ignored it like I didn't exist.
	I apologize.
	In my mind, I felt like I was answering the question.
	But there is no answer to the question.
	So every answer you give is false.
	There is no answer as to why you would have more loyalty to the woman who abused and neglected you for decades than the child who never hurt you at all, if what's important is blood and family.
	There's no... I mean, you... We know there's no answer to that, right?
	There's no rational answer to that.
	I want to remain connected to the harmful past rather than the loving future.
	Come on.
	I mean, there's no answer to that.
	There's no answer to that So are you saying that that's not me
	That's my mother that wants me to be disconnected from my family?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't think your mother has any desires other than her own preferences in the moment.
	But the question is, what's the price?
	Okay.
	What's the price of lying to your mother?
	Because you're lying to your mother, right?
	Every time you don't have a real conversation about stuff that's on your mind, you're lying to her, right?
	So, lying, pretending, falsifying, for what?
	Help me understand, what is the benefit to you?
	I understand the benefit to your mother if she gets to pretend like things weren't so bad.
	She gets her son's resources and attention and future loyalty.
	So for your mom, it's a good deal.
	I'm just trying to figure out the deal for you.
	What do you get out of it?
	Now you say, oh, blood and loyalty.
	It's like, but you told me that you don't have much connection with your wife and son!
	So all this loyalty doesn't make... the whole problem is a lack of loyalty, so you can't suddenly claim loyalty.
	So what's the benefit?
	I'm not getting a benefit.
	Occasional tax prep.
	Okay.
	So it saves you a couple hundred bucks a year, right?
	I apologize for that laughter right there.
	No, I understand.
	This is kind of like a wake up laughter, right?
	Like a, what the hell?
	This is coming out of a daze, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So there's no, I mean, that's not a real benefit, right?
	So there's, there's no benefit really, right?
	And I'm not sure that you want to give a manipulative woman who sues people she steals from
	access to all the details of your finances!
	Do you not get any sense of caution about that?
	I...
	I...
	You know, I use it to my advantage.
	I mean, I'm hoping she will do everything legally and lawfully.
	No, no, that's not what I'm talking about.
	Your mother, who sues people and takes money in what you describe as an immoral fashion,
	now knows every single detail about your costs, liabilities, assets, and income.
	I'm putting myself in danger financially by having her do that.
	God.
	.
	Well, aren't you doing kind of the best of everyone?
	Aren't you making the most money?
	I mean, you said your half-brothers are layabouts, right?
	My eldest sister is doing better than I, but she does not have mother to do the taxes.
	I'm just saying I personally would not feel comfortable handing over financial details to somebody who'd been
	relentlessly abusive and neglectful in the past.
	She knows exactly what you can afford and do you not think she'll use that knowledge at some point?
	I I would hope not.
	I know hope's not a plan.
	That's just a side note.
	So you get a couple of hours of tax prep a year, which is beneficial but also costly, because then it means she can work, right?
	And then she's not, right?
	So that's a plus and also a big minus, right?
	And so there's no particular plus and what are the negatives?
	This Disattachment
	This Probably
	Overcling of the past Or at least excusing
	My mother in the the events.
	you Boy, that's some abstract shit right there, brother.
	Can you feel yourself groping on the limits of the galaxy there for a little bit of nebula?
	What are the costs?
	I don't get to feel love.
	I don't get to feel attached.
	I don't get to feel present.
	Right.
	I mean the cost of what you're writing about.
	I'm gonna...
	tell you something personal.
	You You
	You steadfastly rejected my advice for eight years.
	Right?
	Regarding family.
	I say, if you have significant problems with your family, say parents in this situation, what have I always said?
	Sit down, have conversations with them.
	Try and work it out.
	Try and get some empathy.
	Try and get some sympathy.
	Right?
	Keep having those conversations until you break through or you don't want to talk anymore.
	And then, if you don't want to talk anymore, you're under no moral obligation to continue to spend time with people who continue to reject and abuse you, right?
	You've heard that a million times in my show, right?
	So, what do you think it's like for me when you do the opposite of what I recommend And what is the right behavior in terms of self-protection and in particular protection for your wife and children or your child, your son.
	So what do you think it's like for me when I get a panic message that disaster is imminent without any acknowledgement in the entire call that you've done the opposite of what I've recommended and what is the right thing to do.
	For eight years straight.
	And you haven't said, I'm having trouble doing the right thing.
	You didn't do a call in before, but you only call me when disaster strikes.
	When your marriage is on the verge of collapse, right?
	I would imagine that you feel like people aren't listening or that I wasn't listening that
	That you're wasting your breath.
	No, no, you were listening.
	You absolutely were.
	Well, you've been listening for eight years, right?
	You know, it's kind of like imagine if you had a beloved uncle who kept smoking.
	I guess you probably did, right?
	Or aren't, right?
	You had a beloved uncle who kept smoking and for eight years you're begging him to stop smoking, right?
	And then he completely laughs at you, scorns you, ignores you, whatever, right?
	But he certainly doesn't quit smoking, right?
	In fact, he smokes more.
	And then he's like, hey man, I need to come and move in with you because I'm really sick from smoking.
	And he never references at all the fact that you begged him to quit smoking for eight years straight.
	What would you think?
	Why should I help you now?
	You've had all this time to try or make... No, not you had all this time.
	I begged you to quit smoking.
	Did I beg you to be honest with your family of origin for eight years?
	Yes, that's your message.
	Did I write an entire book, Real-Time Relationships, about how to be honest?
	You certainly did.
	So, you understand, your mother is in the avoidance.
	Like, if your uncle says, oh man, you know, I didn't listen, I'm really sorry, you know, I really need your help now, and I need your help precisely because I didn't listen to you, and I know it's going to be tough to provide, but I really didn't follow your advice, I didn't listen to your good counsel, and now I'm really screwed.
	Like, no acknowledgement of any of this!
	It's weird!
	You know, Steph, I didn't... I wasn't honest with my family.
	I didn't follow your good advice.
	I didn't do the right thing.
	I listened to you for eight years, and now I'm really screwed.
	Because, I mean, your email comes in... I mean, I look at these emails with the depth and clarity that is sort of second nature to me, right?
	So look at your email, right?
	And I'm like, okay, so he still has And, uh, he's still enmeshed in destructive relationships.
	He hasn't listened.
	And he doesn't even seem to acknowledge that he hasn't listened.
	He's done the exact opposite of what I recommend as the right and moral thing and now he desperately wants my help.
	But he won't admit fault at all.
	Just like Mommy.
	Mommy won't take responsibility for her bad choices.
	Do you?
	In contacting me.
	That's the real mom.
	That's the cost.
	This part is a little critical, by the way.
	Just the other part wasn't, this part is.
	But you see, you don't take responsibility and say, Steph, I did the exact opposite of the right thing for eight years.
	Now, I'm really fucked.
	Help me.
	I know it's tough to help, you know, because I didn't listen, right?
	You know, somebody you love...
	you They're fat.
	They don't exercise.
	You tell them, man, you gotta eat well.
	You gotta exercise.
	You can have a stroke or a heart attack or diabetes or something.
	And then they contact you saying, man, I need your help.
	I gotta move in with you.
	I had a stroke and I have diabetes.
	And they don't reference anything about the good advice you gave them for close to a decade.
	You would be played, right?
	You would be being played.
	They would be hoping that you would follow them down this line of unreality.
	And just pretend, oh wow, this thing happened to you!
	Gosh, let me help!
	They would be fogging out and playing you.
	And you're trying to play me, I'm not saying consciously.
	But you understand, you're trying to play me.
	Because you haven't once referenced the fact that you did the opposite of the right thing that I beg people to do.
	You haven't referenced that once.
	I'm sorry I left it so late.
	I'm sorry I didn't listen to your good advice.
	I get it now.
	Nope.
	None of that.
	Do you see where I'm coming from?
	You Yeah.
	You've literally listened to probably hundreds of call-in shows where I'm on my knees begging people to tell the truth to those in their lives, right?
	And you've seen the effects of when people don't, right?
	And you're still like, well, screw that.
	I don't need to do it.
	And then when disaster hits, I'm going to call up making no reference to the fact that I've known better for close to a decade and haven't done it.
	And it's fine.
	Don't do it.
	That's your choice.
	But then when disaster strikes, you gotta reference it.
	Because otherwise, that's really bizarre, right?
	You can't...
	Your mother won't take responsibility for her past bad choices.
	you And you're not either.
	And your mother won't apologize.
	And you won't either.
	Your mother won't take ownership.
	And you won't either.
	And that self-avoidance, this is the essence of why you cannot connect with people, my friend.
	Because you can't connect with your own self-ownership.
	You can't connect with your own choices.
	And your choices are who you are.
	If you can't connect with your choices, if you can't take responsibility, you can't connect with anyone because you're not really there.
	In the same way that your mother is just defenses and avoidance and minimization and gaslighting.
	This whole conversation I've been like, well I'm sure he's going to mention at some point that he didn't take my good advice for eight years.
	I'm sure he's going to take some ownership for being the author of his own problems.
	Right?
	I mean, you've known this stuff since your mid to late twenties.
	You're in your mid thirties.
	And you're calling me up like you never heard any good advice and I've just got to help you and there's no acknowledgement of the fact that I've been trying to help you for years and years and years and years and years and years and years.
	And you have refused to listen and you're not taking responsibility for that.
	And the path to connection has to go through self-ownership.
	Because other people in your life have to have someone to connect to.
	And if you don't take responsibility for your choices and your avoidances, and we all have them, I have them, you have them, everybody has them, so I'm not perfect of course in this way, But if you can't take responsibility for your choices, there's no person to connect to.
	Because there's just avoidance.
	You can't connect with avoidance.
	It's like trying to push two opposing magnets together.
	You just can't do it.
	So I would say that the real price is this infectious avoidance of responsibility that's showing up throughout the entire length of this call.
	Because look the fact that you did the opposite of what I recommend and it's the right thing.
	Honesty is the right thing and you've known this for years and you've listened to it role-played and you've listened to call-in shows and you've read the books and like everything is pointing towards honesty.
	The fact that you didn't do it you got to own that.
	You made the choice to not be honest.
	You took the easy route to avoid talking honestly with your mother or other people.
	Right?
	You didn't talk about whether you have talked about your older brother who introduced you to drugs when you were a child.
	No confrontation there, which is fine.
	No confrontation with your mother.
	No honesty with the people around you.
	And now you're saying to me, well, strangely enough, when I keep avoiding facts, reality, truth and honesty and directness, I find I can't connect with people.
	Well, no shit, Sherlock!
	That's exactly why I say don't do that!
	And there's no acknowledgement of that.
	And that's the price.
	And again, I say this with some sympathy, but that's the price.
	And I don't know what therapists are doing if they're not saying just go be truthful and honest with people.
	I don't know what they're doing, but that's a topic for another time.
	But that's the price.
	You have to take ownership for every choice you make as an adult.
	Otherwise, nobody can connect with you, because you're not really there.
	You're just like a hall of mirrors, just avoidance and manipulation and lack of self-ownership and lack of responsibility.
	You became like a ghost, like your father felt, right?
	That's why he felt the house was full of ghosts, because it was.
	Because if you don't own yourself, you're not material.
	So that's the funny thing, for me.
	That's the odd thing.
	And I think that's the real price, if that makes sense.
	It's kind of odd that you'd hope I wouldn't notice that, you know what I mean?
	I'm not sure if that makes sense.
	You You
	Yeah, I had many thoughts about this conversation and that was not one of them.
	None of it!
	None of it, not in that email.
	And that's, I mean, almost didn't take it for that reason, because I'm like, what?
	This guy's obviously still enmeshed in terrible relationships.
	But you know what?
	Sounds like a long-term listener.
	I'm sure he'll call up and say, Steph, I need your help because I didn't follow your advice.
	And, you know, it's kind of tough because now it's an emergency, right?
	Eight years ago you could have prevented all of this stuff, or five years ago, or maybe even two years ago.
	But you're enmeshed in bad relationships, you decide to get married and have a child, and then you only call me when things are falling apart, right?
	And I was, you know, because I've always said, like, I'm a nutritionist, I'm there about prevention, not cure.
	Right?
	So if you don't follow your nutritionist's advice for eight years and you end up having a heart attack, you don't call the nutritionist, right?
	If you call the nutritionist, the nutritionist says, oh, no, maybe you could have solved this ten years ago, but now you've got to call ER, you've got to get an ambulance, right?
	You've got to call 911.
	So you're calling 911, but I'm a nutritionist.
	And part of me is like, okay, but it's going to be too startling for him.
	It's going to be too unsettling for him.
	But that's the price.
	The price of being in pretend relationships is you're kind of pretending to exist.
	And if you're kind of pretending to exist, who can connect with you?
	Because we only exist in the responsibility that we take and the truth that we speak.
	That's the only existence we have for others, is the responsibility we take and the truth that we speak.
	And when I was role-playing with you as your mother, she took no responsibility, which means she doesn't exist.
	All that exists are avoidance and defenses.
	and that always comes at the expense of erasing other people in your mind and your heart,
	which is why I called her cold.
	And if you had that uncle who said, hey man, I gotta come live with you, because I got
	emphysema and lung cancer, and he never once references the fact that you told him to stop
	smoking and apologizes for that.
	that man, I know I'm putting a real burden on you, but I mean I didn't listen to your
	advice and now if the grace of your heart and I'm so sorry and now this is a burden
	on you and right then he's playing you.
	He's just pretending that he deserves all of your kindness and consideration without
	having to pay the price of saying I'm sorry I didn't listen to your good advice.
	And again, that's the price, right?
	Because you're surrounded by people who don't take responsibility,
	don't take good advice.
	Do your parents ever take good advice?
	Did they?
	No.
	Did you take good advice?
	No.
	No, I didn't.
	Did your parents ever apologize or admit that they didn't take good advice?
	No, they didn't.
	You?
	With me?
	No.
	And again, I say this with sympathy.
	I really do.
	I mean, I get it.
	It's mildly annoying, but that's fine, right?
	But I say this with sympathy.
	It's like that's the price, right?
	You can't take self-ownership to this extent.
	You can't be direct and honest.
	And you can't apologize.
	Because you were raised by some very, very selfish and defensive people.
	And defences are always defences against connection, that's all defences are, because otherwise you have this direct connection, right?
	And I'm sure this has... this is sort of at the root of what you talk about, your lack of connection, 18.49% connection with your wife and your son.
	You're indifferent to them being there because you've yet to show up in a way.
	Because you've lied to your mother by omission and commission, by not being honest with her.
	And you kind of falsified things with me by not being honest about not taking good advice and needing help after you ignore eight years of good advice.
	So when you start taking real responsibility and learn how to apologize, Then you can connect with your wife and your son.
	I think.
	But not children.
	I mean this is sort of back to when I was talking about your lack of responsibility in,
	and this is before I even knew that you were a mental health professional,
	who tells people don't laugh about trauma, right?
	It's a beautiful thing.
	So, you know that's a temptation.
	You know that I really find it disconcerting and upsetting, right?
	When people laugh about the trauma and you just, for half an hour, you're off and on giggling about your trauma.
	And I'm the one who has to stop you and point it out.
	When you actually give this... And that's just the level of... And that's also the price, right?
	Of being in contact with NPCs.
	defensive, non-empathetic NPCs.
	So, you know, maybe you get a couple hours of tax prep, but I think the price tag is
	infinite.
	If you're interested in learning more about the world of the deaf, please visit our website at www.deaf.org.au.
	And in that way the price tag could be your current family.
	And you know, you don't have the right, like you chose to have a kid, right?
	Your wife is with you by choice, your son is not, right?
	You chose to have a kid.
	So now you have to clean up your relationships and you have to be honest, direct and connect with people.
	Like you have no choice about that anymore because you chose to have a kid.
	And now you're responsible for all of that and, you know, if you were still single, okay, whatever, if you just had a girlfriend or maybe even a wife, she's still there by choice.
	But you've now invited this child into your life by choice.
	You don't have the fucking right to not bond.
	Because you know what it's like, you in particular know what it's like to grow up without a bond.
	You know how awful it is.
	And you chose to have a child?
	You owe that child everything.
	And if everything means The cost of your whatever bullshit you've got going on with your mother, too bad, pay it.
	If the cost means confronting people and have them blow up at you till you figure out that they're bad people, pay that price.
	Because everything about this conversation, for me, is your son, is to do with your son.
	You cannot be indifferent to his presence or absence, you cannot be indifferent to his mother's presence or absence, because then you're just recreating The trash planet you were born into and you don't have the right to do that because you're a mental health professional, you've done therapy, you've listened to me, you've listened to hundreds of shows, philosophical conversations about all of this.
	You have, I mean, you could say your parents were in a kind of a state of nature, they didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but you know all of this stuff.
	So you have absolute, complete and total responsibility to connect, which means get rid of all of the avoidant bullshit non-connections in your life!
	So that you can connect with your son, that's your job!
	And you have to do it.
	This is not a choice.
	This is not an option.
	You must connect with your son, which means connecting with his mother.
	Whatever's in the way of that is absolutely disposable.
	Everything in the way of you connecting with the family you chose and the child you chose to create is expendable.
	you you
	You know, if you had a demon in your little finger that was blocking you from connecting with your son
	and you couldn't get it out any other way, I'd say, go get the shears!
	Everything that is between your heart and your son's heart is expendable.
	you And it's not a choice.
	Because he deserves everything that you didn't get.
	And you have full responsibility because you know everything you need to know.
	Does that make sense?
	Owe it to him is not even a strong enough phrase.
	It must be done.
	It must be done.
	This is what I must do.
	You've got to clean straight up with your family of origin, you've got to talk to whoever you talk to, break through, break out, like whatever is causing you to fog out and dissociate, I assume it's your mother, it could be your half-brothers, could be, I don't know, but whatever's between you and your son?
	I don't care if you've got to take a metaphorical flamethrower, you get that shit out of the way.
	You connect with your son.
	Or he is going to be a curse on your conscience and your choices will be a curse on your conscience and literally it's now or never because he's already nine months old so his personality is being formed as we speak.
	So this is like five alarm fucking fire emergency make ten phone calls today.
	Get this shit cleared away, break through, break out, I don't care.
	Don't have dissociative people in your life, find a way to connect with them or throw them out.
	Because everything that is between you and your son must go.
	I don't care if it's your illusions.
	I don't care if it's your mother's preferences.
	I don't care if it's your sister's vanity.
	I don't care if it's your half-brother's insecurities.
	I don't care.
	Because all that matters is the person not here by choice, your son.
	And that's how you redeem.
	Your childhood is you don't re-inflict it on your son.
	And that's how, like the reason you're not connecting with your son is because when you connect with your son it will be finally revealed to you how bad the people were to you in your childhood.
	You're still able to hover around this shit by dissociating.
	You connect with your son?
	You will realize, like, I didn't get my mother's evil until I became a father, right?
	I didn't get my mother's evil until I became a father and truly connect with and genuinely and deeply enjoy the company of my daughter and love her beyond life and without reservation, right?
	Then I get how cold you have to be to do the opposite of that.
	Then I get how stony-hearted you have to be.
	I would tear through a mountainside to protect my daughter and your
	mother can't even show up when you're locked in a cage with an addict.
	You are protecting your mother by being distant from your son because when you connect with your son
	what your mother is like will become completely clear to you.
	you you
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah.
	I've got phone calls to make.
	I've got letters to write.
	Good.
	All right.
	Will you keep me posted about how things are going?
	Yeah, Steph, thank you.
	It's been an absolute pleasure.
	I don't know if it matters at this point, but I do apologize for not following your advice for eight years.
	I appreciate that, and I hope that you will listen now that you know what the stakes are.
	All right.
	Well, listen, keep in touch, and I wish you the very best, and I really do appreciate the call.
	Thank you, Steph.
	Thanks.
	Take care, brother.

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