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May 1, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
41:06
NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE?!?
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Good morning, everybody.
Hope you're doing well.
Stefan Molyneux.
It is a little bit before my Sunday 11 a.m.
show, and we are going to answer some questions from the fine folks at freedomain.locals.com.
I hope you would join the community.
It's a very, very good place to be.
Remember, philosophy is not just intellectual, philosophy is social.
So I hope that you will come and check out the community, freedomain.locals.com.
All right.
Freedomain!
I've been exploring online dating and I find that the majority of men want sex before marriage.
When I decline them and tell them that I don't want to participate in recreational promiscuity they often accuse me of being unreasonable.
They pretend that sex before marriage is not a hedonistic or materialistic desire and that sex is the only way that men can determine whether or not they want to invest themselves in marriage and children.
As a single independent woman I simply can't afford to be a broad for strangers.
There are a few good men who are willing to court me and get to know me before becoming intimate.
It seems like respect for women and themselves comes naturally to them.
Why do so many men want to have sex as soon as possible?
Is it really that pleasurable or is it their way of avoiding a deeper and more meaningful bond?
That is a fine, fine question and I appreciate So, there's two things here that are not, to me, totally the same.
So, the first is sex before marriage, and then there is another one that says recreational promiscuity.
So, I'm not going to say these are two extremes, but these are not two things on the same exact continuum.
So, no sex before marriage is one thing and recreational promiscuity is quite another.
So, to say I'm not going to have a one-night stand is not the same as saying I'm going to wait until marriage to have sex.
Now, the evolution, of course, of not Having sex before marriage was quite simple.
So things evolved, sexual matters and sexual rules evolved, in a time when people got married in their teenage years after maybe a few weeks or at most a few months of courtship.
So that's how things evolved.
Now the reason why No sex before marriage evolved, in particular, has to do with colder climates.
So colder climates require a lot more skill to survive.
And I'm not talking, I always have to sort of mention, it's not like super cold climates like the Inuit or the Eskimo, I don't know what the name is these days, but that's a different matter because that remains sort of hunter-gathering, even though that does require a fair amount of skill.
The evolution of no sex before marriage has to do with surviving winter in a farming environment.
So surviving winter in a farming environment.
To survive winter in a farming environment requires years of knowledge transfer from fathers to sons and mothers to daughters.
And in order to invest a huge amount of time and energy and effort into educating your children, for men, you have to truly know that they're yours.
So, you know, remember, it's mother's baby, it's daddy's baby.
Now, if a father has doubts about his paternity, he will not invest as much in his children.
Just understand this.
If a father does not have If the father does not invest as much in his children, his children have a lower chance of survival.
there's always a possibility but reasonable certainty is paternity he
will not invest as much in his children if the father does not invest as much in
his children his children has have a lower chance of survival now the lower
chance of survival either occurs directly in that he doesn't provide for
them nearly as much as he would otherwise or it occurs in the next
generation So maybe he provides okay for his kids, but he doesn't transfer as much knowledge to them, and because he doesn't transfer as much knowledge to them, their children have less of a chance of survival.
I mean, the skills to survive winter in a rural agricultural setting are prodigious, if the winter is, you know, reasonably long and harsh, or even if just the growing season is relatively short.
So it's either his kids or his grandkids who end up with a lower chance of survival if The father is not certain of his paternity.
So human beings reach sexual maturity in their early to mid-teens.
It used to be a little bit later.
There used to be, I think in the Victorian age, women entered into puberty around the ages of 17 to 18 for a variety of reasons.
But let's just say in your teenage years you reach sexual maturity.
And when you reach sexual maturity in relatively short order, You either have some sort of encouraged marriage, maybe even an arranged marriage in some ways.
You get married in short order and then you start having sex within the marriage.
But this all happens usually in your teenage years in the past.
So that's how we evolved.
Now I'm assuming, of course, that you are not a woman who got married in her teenage years.
And if you didn't get married in your teenage years, then you're doing something that is counter to what we evolved, which is, of course, totally fine.
I mean, it's not a good or bad thing.
I'm just pointing out that, in tradition, you get married in your teenage years.
And actually, I mean, some friends of mine got married in their teenage years and so on.
I mean, marriages are strong and good and all of that, so it's a perfectly reasonable and fine thing to do as long as you're raised, obviously, reasonably well.
So you are out of the tradition of how we evolved if you're a woman in your, say, twenties or thirties and you're not married.
So, from the male perspective, From the male perspective, and I can't speak to women and also I can't obviously speak for all men, this is a generic male perspective based upon sort of gathering information by chatting, you know, pretty frankly with friends over the years.
From the male perspective, getting into a monogamous relationship with a woman who doesn't really enjoy sex is setting yourself up for a lifetime of torture.
Let me say this again, just so you're clear from the female perspective.
And none of this is moral.
I'm just talking about the way things have evolved and what most men are like.
If you're a man getting married and getting into a lifelong monogamous relationship a sexually exclusive relationship with a woman who does not enjoy having sex or doesn't I mean doesn't enjoy having sex let's say nearly as much as he does he's setting himself up for a lifetime of tension frustration hostility anxiety fear rejection and torture and temptation and temptation
The male sexual drive is second only to strong atomic forces in its intensity.
So here's the thing.
Let's say, I don't know how old you are, you don't say, but I'm going to just say you're, let's say 25.
So you're 25.
Okay.
So at 25, let's say you've been, so you've been an adult for seven years, right?
Now if at the age of 25 or 30 a man comes across you and you say I want to wait till marriage well the guy already knows that you've waited for seven years as an adult and you haven't had any sex.
So for a man what does that signal?
Well for a man that signals that you are probably low sex drive or maybe you have an issue with sexuality or something something or maybe there's something physically wrong with you or is it something wrong with your hormones or so you're saying I'm fine to go 10 years let's say because if he meets you at 25 you've been seven years an adult no sex
And then, you know, you date for a year or two, you get engaged, you get married, so then you're going to be 10 years no sex before you have sex.
Right?
So for a man, what does that signal to him?
I'm not talking in the past, I'm talking about now.
Now the late teenage get married and start having sex, that's all gone.
For the most part.
I mean some communities, yes, but for the most part in general culture that's all gone.
So the man looks at you and you say, Don't want to have sex until marriage.
That's one thing if you're 18 and you're going to get married in a couple of months.
Yeah, that's, I mean, to me that would be worth waiting and an exciting anticipation and so on.
But the man has to have a very strong sense that you are desperate to tear his clothes off.
Because otherwise he's going to get stuck into a marriage where one of the primary drivers of his existence which is not just like the orgasmic sex drive but you know the romance and the courting and the cuddling like all of that stuff is great because if a man gets married to a woman before a man courts a woman he needs to get a sense I mean in a sense he's desperate to get a sense of how pro-sexual she is.
And he's looking for science.
Now, some of this, for whatever reason, you know, there's a lot of words, you know, prudish or whatever it is, but if he has any doubts about the woman's capacity for lust, and in particular for him, then he's going to shy away.
He's going to shy away because if you've ever talked to people, and I have of course over the course of this show, talked to men who are in sexless marriages, it's hell!
You know there's a video I've seen on social media which is a man who kept a spreadsheet of all of the times and ways in which His wife had said no to his sexual advances.
You know, 34 times you said you had a headache, 17 times you said you were too tired.
He kept a list of all of the times that his wife had rejected his sexual advances in a monogamous marriage.
And a man who feels rejected sexually has a very tough time staying in love.
A man who is rejected sexually has a very tough time staying in love.
I mean, I'm going to put this as nicely as possible.
And then, of course, so then, of course, the men get criticized.
Oh, you just want me for my body and so on.
It's like, well, yeah, in part.
Yeah, of course.
But the body is an expression of something else.
I mean, sexuality is such a wonderful and beautiful part of life that to be anti or cold or frigid or withdrawn as signifies to me could be very tragic.
histories or traumas or problems or whatever.
The male higher sex drive, usually, and men do usually have a higher sex drive than women, but the higher sex drive of the male can be used to control and bully the male.
And sex for some women, a lot of women it seems at times, can be held out as a reward or a punishment in order to control the man.
And if the woman is continually saying, I don't feel like it, And then the man sees the woman doing all other kinds of things she doesn't feel like after she's got a job.
She goes to her job even when she feels terrible or doesn't want to go or is mad or upset or angry or tired.
She gets up and goes to... So she'll do what her boss, her often male boss, wants to do even if she won't.
And that's 8 hours, right?
Or 10 hours with commute.
So the woman will do what her male boss wants to do without complaint but won't do or won't even entertain what her husband might want to do for, I don't know, 20 minutes or whatever, right?
And I'm not saying the two are emotionally equivalent, but I'm just telling you how the male brain works.
And this is why the male boss is a victorious competitor in the man's lizard brain to himself, because the male boss is who the woman defers to, his wife or his girlfriend.
The male boss is who the woman defers to.
And she almost never says no, and she doesn't yell at him, she doesn't call him names, she doesn't usually manipulate him, at least not obviously indirectly.
She doesn't withhold, she doesn't punish, she doesn't nag.
So he gets the alpha treatment, right?
The male boss gets the alpha treatment.
And the husband, the supposed love of her life, gets the, I don't know, peasant treatment, or the serf treatment, or not quite the slave treatment, but it's not exactly the opposite of that either.
Now of course there are a lot of women who experience sexual abuse and molestation as children who are going to have issues with healthy sexuality.
I mean especially if they haven't dealt with it through maybe talk therapy or something like that.
And so in that situation a man is going to take on a burden and you know there's this fear that women have which I I kind of half get, as a man, I half get it and I get it's like a dim shape and dip giant shape in the fog.
It's kind of at the limit of my understanding and if women can explain this to me better I would appreciate it.
I kind of get it and I kind of don't get it and the fear that women have is that they're damaged goods.
They're damaged goods.
Now that's tough for men to get because we're forged by being broken.
We're forged by being.
broken.
We fall off things, we get into fights, we get humiliated, we get crushed, we get told we suck, we don't make the team, and so we're made from broken pieces.
And when we are forged from broken pieces, as almost all men are, we are incredibly strong because of that.
And the sort of gynocentric trying to get boys to not be broken is simply producing very weak and therefore dangerous men.
So, for men, because we go through the experience of we are assembled from broken parts and the assemblage of broken parts is stronger than each individual part that was broken and that's where our strength comes from, women don't don't process things in quite the same way. So, I mean, all
healthy men are damaged goods.
We're damaged goods in the way that, you know, a steel sword is forged and melted and twisted and
hammered and right and sparks fly out and it needs to be cooled and then it ends up this incredible
weapon. So, we are forged that way, but women who are hammered tend to break.
Men who are hammered is really the only way we can become strong.
I know this is a big analogy time, and I hope that I'm getting things across, but again, as I said, this is sort of right at the edge of my understanding.
For men, being damaged goods is a plus.
It means that you've risked things.
It means you have the confidence to get knocked down, get back up again and so on.
But women have a deep, deep fear of being perceived as damaged goods.
So a lot of women who have been molested or sexually abused or raped or sexually assaulted as children will hide that for fear of being seen as damaged goods.
Now, please understand, when I'm talking about men getting stronger from being damaged, I'm not talking about sexual abuse.
That doesn't strengthen anyone and that is a very, very appalling situation.
But, you know, I'm talking about taking risks and tumbling.
Like, if I was an investor in a company, I would, if some guy came and said, well, I I have, you know, a couple of successful companies.
I have a bunch of failed ones.
Here are the lessons that I've learned.
I'd be like, okay, so this guy's got staying power.
He's going to stick with it.
And he's learned his lessons.
I wouldn't view him as a failure.
I would view him as somebody who has learned through the process of failure how to take appropriate levels of risk.
It's the old cliche in hockey or any place you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take.
When you take shots you miss most of the ones you aim at but you miss all of the ones you don't aim at and a man has to throw ten spears sometimes to get a deer or whatever right so that's just knowing that's going to be the case is a reality.
So a man who's not risked and failed is not attractive to women, but a woman who's been broken is sometimes too high a burden for a lot of men to take on, at least that's the perception.
So I'm not, again, I don't really understand it too well, but there is this concern or fear about women and the damaged goods.
And men are scanning for that as well.
Manner of scanning for that as well.
Because a man needs a woman who's able to protect his children so that he can go out and hunt and fish and go to war and scout and all of these kinds of things.
So a man needs a woman who's going to protect his children and a woman who was deeply harmed as a child is often less able to protect her children and therefore less able to protect the man's children and therefore his investment in them may not pay off as much if his children are brutalized or sexually assaulted or whatever, right?
So maybe that has something to do.
Men who are beaten up as kids often become pretty tough and aggressive.
I may somewhat put myself in that category.
But women who are assaulted as children don't respond usually in the same kind of way.
So, a man is going to look for signs of sexual dysfunction.
Now, if the woman is hypersexual, in other words, if she has the sexuality of a highly damaged man, then he may partake of that but he won't commit to that.
Because a woman who's highly hypersexual, and by that I mean, you know, constant dirty talk and, you know, you're going to have to run me on back to the hotel.
You got me hotter than Georgia asphalt.
Well, a woman who's over full of lust is going to be unfaithful if he's away on a hunting trip.
And so like if she's tortured by sexuality to the point where she's an addict, then he also can't be sure of his Children, right?
And, of course, one of the things that would happen in the past is if there was sexual abuse within a family, maybe it happens now, but it happens less, I think, but if there was sexual abuse in the family, if a male impregnated a woman in her teens who was part of his family, then he might try to get her married off as quickly as possible to cover up the resulting child as being part of the marriage.
And so a woman who's in too much of a rush and is hypersexual or whatever is also a risk factor because then he may get a lot of sex but also the shadow side of hypersexuality is a dislike of sexuality in the same way that everyone who's a drug addict both loves and hates the drug or needs and hates the drug is the same thing with hypersexuality but he certainly will have risks of paternity fraud or those sorts of issues if the woman's hypersexual so again these are all complicated things so that a man is going to look for a woman who's lusty but not hypersexual and
Hypersexuality also is a lack of sense of danger, right?
So women who sort of throw themselves at men as a whole don't have any particular sense of danger and therefore will put him at risk with her sexual entanglements and so on.
I remember many years ago I was on a vacation, went on my own for two weeks to the Dominican Republic and read philosophy on the beach and played volleyball all day.
It's a beautiful time.
But yeah, I remember going on one of these tourist tours and meeting these women who were just inviting everyone to come over to their house for a party afterwards.
It's like, what are you talking about?
You don't know these people.
Why are you inviting everyone over to your house?
It just made no sense.
It's just a bad idea.
So men are looking for women with a healthy relationship to sexuality.
And anything that is a red flag for that is going to be something that men are going to shy away from.
because again, as a woman, you have a constant called male lust, but men don't have quite
as much of a constant called female lust.
I mean obviously I do, but you know what I mean.
So for women, the idea that a man is going to withhold sex or not want to have sex and
so on is kind of incomprehensible, so that's just not a variable you have to work with.
But for men, it's a variable that men have to work with when it comes to figuring out who to enter into a lifelong, monogamous, exclusive relationship with.
I mean, if you had to take a job and then keep that job for the next 50 years, you'd be pretty careful who you worked for.
So, if you're in your mid-twenties, or you're 30, or, heaven forbid, you're in your thirties, and you say, I want to wait till marriage, then a couple of things go through a man's mind.
And again, I'm not talking about one-night stands, I'm talking about the sort of literally wait until our wedding night.
He's going to say, how has she been able to not have sex?
Let's say you're 30, for 12 years as an adult she's been able to not have sex.
How is that possible?
Right?
It means that she's not particularly sexual or she doesn't have much sexual desire and then he's just gonna look forward to a life of begging and pleading and being rejected and being hypersexual and frustrated and what am I gonna do and like that's just like no no thank you like this that can't happen for just about any man who sees that ahead of time.
So, yep.
No thank you.
I mean it's just not a not a life that men men would want.
I mean unless they're masochistic in which case they're kind of messed up too.
Or if you're 30 and I just I know I've up from 25 to 30 but this just to make it a little bit more vivid.
So let's say you're 30 and you say to a man no sex before marriage okay are you a virgin?
Again, if you are a virgin, it means that sex is not a big motivator for you.
You don't happen to be a particularly lusty person, which is fine.
I mean, I guess assuming all your hormones check out, but for whatever reason, there's a bell curve with this sort of stuff as well, even among people who aren't traumatized.
But if you are not a virgin, then you have imposed a no sex before marriage rule on new men but not older men, other men from your past.
So, let's say you've had three sexual relationships and then you come up with a no sex before
marriage, well, that's not really gonna work.
Sorry.
Like, I mean, sorry, like, you've just got to be honest with you.
As the old saying goes, that is like trying to raise the price of a used car, right?
So if you are not a virgin, and this doesn't have to necessarily mean vaginal sex or whatever, but if you've engaged in, I'm just going to use that sexual activity as a whole, if you've engaged in sexual activity in the past, and then with new men, you're like, no sex before marriage, That is not, it's not going to work.
I mean, not with a high-quality man.
It's not going to work.
Because you didn't have that rule in the past.
Right?
It's the old joke about, like, I'm a born-again virgin.
If I don't have sex for seven years, I'm a born-again virgin, right?
That's some sort of rule.
I think it's in Catholicism, something like that.
It could just be an urban myth, so please don't take anything I say on this with any seriousness, at least this part.
But, yes, it's just not going to work.
It's just not going to work.
I mean, for a wide variety of reasons.
So, you want the very highest price, which is marriage, for sexual activity when you gave it away for free before.
Now, and this is not credible to men.
It's not credible to men.
Like, you gave away your sex before and now you're demanding a lifelong commitment for the same sex that you gave away for free before.
It's something that I don't know if women notice this but I'll tell you what doesn't work.
I mean this is just my sort of free dating advice and I'm absolutely certain about this.
Ladies, I'm going to give you this free dating advice and this I'm absolutely certain about.
So what you'll see a lot of times when women are on dating apps and so on And these are pictures that I see, obviously, I'm not on any dating apps, but what you'll see is women who say, you know, I'm ready to settle down, you better bring a real commitment, you better be man enough to handle my kids, and what the women are doing is they're, you know, desperately trying to say I'm high value through words.
You better step up and be ready to handle everything that I have to offer.
You know, I'm a queen, I'm a this, I'm a that.
And they're trying to raise the value based on just attitude.
And honestly, as men, we could care less.
Like, it doesn't matter to us.
It's just noise.
We don't care.
We are relentlessly empirical.
So if you are a man looking at a woman's dating profile and she's got a lot of red flags and yet she says you know you better treat me like a princess and you better do this and you better do that but she's got red flags Her rating herself highly despite having a bunch of red flags is just another red flag.
Like all you're doing, like if you say, geez I've made some real mistakes, I've learned from them and you know I'm going to humbly move forward in this world looking for a man of quality while recognizing that there are these red flags.
I can respect that and men can respect that.
We may not necessarily marry but we would at least respect that and maybe we'd go out on a date because that's some sort of self-knowledge.
But a woman who's You know, got a cavalcade of red flags, who then demands to be treated like some pure virgin wealthy queen from Stalingrad.
I don't know.
I mean, that's like, I mean, it's, it's crazy.
And men will not be interested in that for anything longer term.
I mean, you have red flags, be honest, you have red flags.
Be honest.
You have red flags.
You've made mistakes.
You've done things that are bad, that are wrong.
And we can sympathize with that.
As men, we've also done things that are bad and wrong and made mistakes.
But yeah, not refusing to admit that is crazy.
It's crazy.
I mean, for women, it's the equivalent of a guy who's Dating profile says, you know, he's got swastika tattoos and lives in his car in the backyard of his mother's place and she cooks all of his meals and he's 35 and he demands a virginal supermodel with an hourglass figure who's also top-tier Mensa.
Remember?
I mean, it's delusional, right?
If you don't have a reasonable sense of your own sexual market value, you're doomed in the dating market.
That doesn't mean you won't date, it just means you won't get commitment.
And, of course, one of the ways in which the daily market is entirely disrupted is to say to women that all of your standards are confidence and to say to men all of your standards are phobic or dysfunctional or toxic or, you know, women can have standards, men only have prejudices.
This is kind of a boring thing to say because it's so obvious.
So if you're, this is to the original writer of the question, and I really do appreciate the question and I, you know, I sympathize with the challenges and it's not like we're all the authors of our own misfortune because all of our sort of ancestral wisdom has been stripped from us through appeals to hedonism and debt and all of that ridiculous excess.
We are basically people who've been given a million dollars in what turns out to be counterfeit money.
And it's a way of just completely messing up with people's emotional, mental, and even physical systems.
It's throwing them on this roller coaster, right?
I mean, imagine if you, you live for a year thinking like you've got a winning lottery ticket for $10 million or a Bitcoin, and you, you live for a year waiting for the hubbub to die down before you go cash it in.
And then it turns out you got the numbers wrong.
It's going to really, it's going to kind of mess up your life, right?
You're going to live that year on a weird helium high, and then You'll get a crash and maybe have to beg for your job back and be bitter and it would be better for you to never play the lottery to begin with and it's the same thing with what's going on in society that people are told, particularly women are told to have high expectations and you call yourself a 10 physically no matter how you look.
You know, like these videos of these guys saying to women, does height matter?
And they're like, yeah.
And then he says, step on the scale.
He puts down a bathroom scale and says, well, step on the scale.
And she's like, I'm not doing that.
And he says, well, if height matters, then weight matters.
No, it's different.
A man should love a woman for who she is.
And it's like, well, a woman should love a man for who she is and forget about the height.
No, no, no, no.
Height doesn't have to be absolute.
He's just got to be taller than me.
And then this guy who himself is tall, but slender, says, yeah, okay, well, weight doesn't have to be absolute.
I just want a woman who weighs less than me.
So get on the scale.
And they won't get on the scale.
And he says, then you've got to withdraw your height requirement because you won't submit to a weight requirement.
And she's like, no, I won't.
Right?
So again, for a woman to have standards is to be empowered and for man to have standards is to be vaguely abusive and toxic and dysfunctional.
And I mean, it's obviously kind of dull to talk about because it's so obvious, but so if you are an older woman in your mid late twenties, thirties, whatever, right?
And I don't mean that mid twenties is Older, older, I'm just talking about relative to sexual maturity and history when we would get married in our teens and have sexual activity and start making babies in our teens.
If you're an older woman and you are demanding sex before marriage, all the man knows is that you have either had sex with men in the past where you didn't have this requirement, in which case you're asking for far more while delivering far less.
Please understand this.
You're asking for virgin treatment without delivering virginity.
So you are raising the price on something you've already given away for free and could now give away free, which just makes men kind of skeptical.
Also for men, again this is just for the women I suppose, but it's kind of important to understand how we reason through these things and we are very good at reasoning through these things.
But if you are a woman, let's say you're 25 and you've had three significant, like let's just say you've had three fairly long-term relationships.
Now if in those relationships you were sexual and you and your partner had a healthy sex life and then he left you.
So if you're an attractive woman and you have a healthy relationship to sexuality then the man left you.
Well why would a man leave An attractive woman with a healthy relationship to sexuality, and again, I'm going to assume intelligence and all of that is baked into this, but why would your boyfriend leave you?
Well, if a man is with an attractive woman who's a good conversationalist and he's getting regular sex, that's, you know, passionate and enjoyable and all of that, well, I mean, then why would he leave?
Well, that's a red flag, right?
Now, the red flag could be that you are sexually cold and that's why the man left.
Well, then the man doesn't want to step into those shoes, right?
A new man.
Because it's just going to be frustrating and sort of pointless, right?
Now, maybe you could find A man with a lower sex drive and there are men who have lower sex drives for sure and as a woman if you're not particularly interested in sex you can find a man who's not particularly interested in sex.
The problem being of course that women tend to want men who are very successful and very successful usually has to do with high testosterone, very successful usually has to do with high aggression channeled into ambition and so on and so a sort of fairly flaccid low T man Maybe more compatible with a woman who doesn't have much of a sex drive but then he's not usually going to succeed much at all in life and there's going to be that issue of paying the bills and respect from success and all that kind of stuff.
So, it's a challenge.
Now, of course, how do you answer this challenge?
How do you answer this challenge?
If you think of the way it used to be back in the day, I mean, even as recently as the 50s, right?
In many places, I mean, prior to the welfare state, the birth control pill and debt, massive debts and all that, unfunded liabilities of the yin yang, not counting World War II, which of course was colossal debt, but If you think about how it used to be, is that you would have, let's say, a young man and a young woman who are 18 years of age, who, you know, they want to get on with their lives, they want to get married, they want to have sex.
So, you know, they date for a couple of months, and then they get married a month or two later, so they're waiting five months.
Okay, well, you know, people can wait five months, right?
That's fine.
And then it's reasonable, and then They pair bond based upon sexual activity, right?
Because pair bonding and sexual activity go hand in hand.
I've talked about this years ago in a presentation called The Truth About Sex, where the more sexual partners a woman has, the more likely she is to divorce the man.
So, that's how it used to be.
You'd wait for four to six months.
You'd wait for four to six months, and then it would be great.
And even back in the day, like I remember doing this research for The Truth About the Wild West, So in the Wild West, you know, very Christian and all that, in the Wild West in America, a third of marriages were shotgun marriages, right?
So even if you did have sex before marriage, again, a third, and it probably was higher, but these are the third that were detected, And you can tell this from the marriage certificate and then the birth certificate, right?
Is it a reasonable time away?
And you know, so a third of them, and again, it's probably closer to a half, but we'll just go with a third.
A third of marriages were the couple had sex and then they got married.
Which, you know, it doesn't interfere with the pair bonding in particular, so that's fine.
So that's how it was.
You wait a couple of months and even if you don't wait a couple of months, you still get married and the pair bonding is good and that works out.
You are in your mid-twenties, late twenties, you're thirty or whatever and you say to a man you're gonna have to wait, well, for how long?
What's the average length of time between starting to date and a wedding night?
It's usually two to three years.
It's usually two to three years.
So instead of saying wait for four to six months and it doesn't even matter that much if we don't wait we'll just get married anyway.
Okay.
As opposed to wait two to three years Oh, and by the way, I've already been waiting 7 to 10 years, or 12 years, like if you're 30 from 18 to 30, right?
And men are very suspicious of women who try to raise their value by playing hard-to-get out of their time, out of common sense, right?
So, it doesn't tend to work.
Now, does that mean jump into bed?
No, of course not.
It doesn't mean jump into the bed.
A lot of women talk about a three-month rule.
Again, three months is kind of in accordance with how long it would take to date and get married.
And, you know, even if you had sex and the marriage was a month later, nobody particularly cared.
It was okay.
I mean, if you didn't marry the girl, that would be a different matter.
But if you did, you know, people were like, yeah, kids will be kids, whatever, right?
Young people will be young.
So, if you have a three-month rule and say, yeah, it's important for us to get to know each other and, you know, I love sex as much as the next girl, but maybe more, but, you know, I want to make sure it's, you know, that we like each other and have at least some compatibility in terms of long-term goals or whatever, right?
I mean, okay, that's within the bounds.
And I think that the important thing too is to express lust towards a man, like I just want to rip your clothes off, to express lust towards a man and then control it is actually very attractive, right?
Obviously because it's high IQ, it's deferral of gratification and so on.
So waiting is a good thing in this kind of relationship.
Waiting for years is a huge red flag for a man because as I said before, getting into a relationship with a woman who doesn't particularly Enjoy tearing your clothes off is a recipe for disaster.
And it's not just disaster in the bedroom.
It's not just disaster in the marriage.
It's a disaster professionally.
It's a disaster professionally.
Because you can't feel like an alpha if your wife doesn't love sleeping with you.
Like you just can't feel like an alpha.
Because you're being rejected at home, so it's a catastrophic failure.
And other men can sort of sense this coming off you.
And so...
Yeah.
And you end up kind of desperately flirty or, I don't know, porn addictions or whatever it is, affairs.
It's just a giant mess and horrible all around.
So I hope that this helps and sorry I couldn't be more clear about it, but there's a lot to deal with in this kind of situation.
But I hope this helps unpack it to some degree.
And of course, I really, really do appreciate everyone's time and attention in these matters.
Very, very important stuff.
I love philosophy because it's the all discipline.
You can talk about just about everything.
So I really do appreciate your time and attention.
Have yourselves a wonderful day.
I guess I'll talk to you guys in about half an hour.
And I appreciate your support at freedomain.com slash donate.
Take care.
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