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Aug. 31, 2023 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:02:51

The Truth About Forgiveness!

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	Well, yeah, let's start off the stream tonight with your stripper name.
	Your stripper name.
	So according to the great gods at X, according to the great gods at X, your stripper name is the color of your shirt and the last thing you ate.
	The color of your shirt and the last thing you ate.
	My wife's stripper name is Black Cracker.
	Black Cracker.
	We have blue croutons.
	Blue croutons.
	That's good. That's good.
	So yeah, it's important to share.
	It's important to share.
	Black wrap, white onions, striped shawarma.
	What do we got here?
	Gray chicken, gray apple, nun chips.
	Black cracker is an oxymoron.
	Green chicken noodle soup, pink gluten-free cookie.
	Well, that's some wholesome vegan stripping.
	Blue coffee. No, no, eight, Rachel, eight.
	A good day, a good day.
	Unless you just snorted them.
	Gray bacon and eggs. Well, that's pretty much the last stop on the Alaskan highway for that stripper.
	Pulpa pizza, egg breakfast taco, black fudge.
	I think you could do a double show with my wife.
	What are we asking? So, this is your stripper name.
	It's the color of your shirt and the last thing you ate.
	For me, it was Scarlet Nuts or Crimson Nuts.
	Crimson Nuts was my, or I guess is and remains my stripper name.
	So... Blue melon.
	Blue melon.
	Blue melon. I suppose that's double D's in a cold climate.
	Nude steak. There's some red meat.
	I'm sure you're heavily marbled.
	I'm sure you're... After the gym, it's cerulean ribeye.
	Cerulean ribeye, the most pretentious stripper known to man.
	I know you have to put the emphasis on the rice syllable.
	Song quiz? I think we did one, didn't we?
	Alright, we can do a song quiz.
	Anybody want a song quiz? Anybody want a song quiz?
	Black Nuts. Not exactly right, since I'm a girl.
	No, you could just be insane.
	Yeah, we did the Billy Joel one.
	That one's kind of easy, right?
	Song quiz. Now, hit me E, M, or H. Easy, medium, or hard.
	Easy, medium, or hard.
	Also, my stripper name was Easy, Medium, and Hard.
	Easy? You want easy?
	All right. What's your name?
	Who's your daddy? Is he rich like me?
	Come on, you gotta know that one.
	Give it to me slowly.
	Alright, come on, what's your name?
	Who's your daddy? Is he rich like me?
	You know that one. That's too hard?
	You just heard that song?
	Alright, what's the name of it?
	What's the name of it?
	Come on, baby. Right?
	You got the band right, the Zombies.
	Yes, that's right. It's the time of the season for loving.
	Yeah, that's right. What's your name?
	Who's your daddy? Is he rich like me?
	Has he taken any time to show you what you need to live?
	Tell me to be slowly.
	It's the time of the season.
	It's really tough without all the harmonies, but yeah, that's a good song.
	Yeah, that's right. Someone drinking something and then going, ah, that's right.
	So hit me with a why if you've heard my daughter and I taking down TikTok people.
	And what do you think?
	Useful? Interesting? Basically, I'm just watching something and I throw it on and we do something.
	I'm quite fascinated because she's really...
	She's deviating.
	She's deviating. So she is interesting because her mindset is really drifting from mine, which is, you know, it's kind of what you want, right?
	I like the two-party you guys did.
	Very fun. It's too depressing.
	Here's the feedback on the internet sandwich.
	Funny, hilarious, too depressing, hilarious.
	Oh, the social media views where you watch multiple clips are more entertaining?
	Well, thanks, Tom. I appreciate that.
	I'll be sure to tell her that and break her heart.
	No, just kidding. No, those are more fun.
	But they're, yeah, they're a bit more of a time commitment.
	But, yeah, that's funny.
	Too depressing. Hilarious.
	Hilarious. Too depressing. Remember, the internet is not the real world.
	Alright, here's a question for you.
	So, if I give you a show title, can you tell me the issues That the call-in listener had.
	Yeah, I forgive you. Am I still doing the History of Philosophy series?
	Please, dear God, I'm working on the book too.
	TikTok takedowns. Yeah, that's good.
	Yeah, I've been working pretty hard on the Peaceful Parenting book.
	But let me ask you this.
	I'll give you the title of the call-in show I did today.
	I also did like a two-and-a-half-hour call-in show today with a guy whose emotions were...
	His emotions used to be classified as a planet, and now I think that's been downgraded to a dwarf planet.
	So, yeah, stopping the emotional rollercoaster.
	Okay. I raw-dogged the bipolar.
	I raw-dogged the bipolar.
	What is that? What is he referring to?
	What is that call-in show about?
	and is it ever safe to release?
	I'm pretty sure you caught it as it went past.
	Thank you.
	.
	Sound safe to release?
	Hot crazy matrix. He's left with a crazy woman.
	Great idea. Effing crazy.
	His sexual preferences. Knocking up a crazy girl!
	No idea, but sounds sexy?
	Okay, I need you to lean down, flex your elbow, and punch yourself in the nads.
	Please do it to save your future.
	No, see, he slept with an unbalanced woman.
	The raw dog part is having sex without a condom and its consequences.
	Yeah, this guy was interesting.
	I mean, he was having a little trouble connecting.
	So he slept with this girl who admitted to him very early on that she was bipolar.
	He slept with her, and then she's like, I really want to have a relationship.
	And he said, LOL, no, but we can still keep having sex.
	How do you think that went overall?
	From minus 10 to plus 10, I would really like a relationship with you.
	LOL, no, but we can keep on having sex.
	Uh, this was a call I did today.
	Pffft.
	Pffft.
	Yeah.
	What is this? X was really good.
	Well, that's the challenge, right?
	And one of the reasons he gave for not...
	Why didn't he want a relationship with her?
	Why didn't he want a relationship with her?
	That one breaks the minus 10 meter.
	She's nuts. I've been there. Why didn't he want a relationship with her?
	Well, he didn't want a relationship with her because he was kind of disgusted at how quickly she slept with him.
	but he still wanted to keep sleeping with her.
	Yeah.
	New listener, I hope.
	Sometimes I'm afraid to ask people how long they've been listening.
	So... Oh yeah, it was not ideal.
	Quick question, quick question.
	I guess this is giving a little bit away.
	Okay, so let's say that you sleep with a girl repeatedly for two weeks and then you break up with her.
	And then a week or two later she shows up with an ultrasound of a baby and says it's yours.
	Where would your spider sense be at that particular point?
	Just out of curiosity.
	About two weeks after you break up she shows up with an ultrasound
	Yeah, cuz you know you can buy those You can buy ultrasounds, right?
	You can buy positive pregnancy tests and you can buy ultrasounds on the...
	Well, he decided not to take a paternity test.
	Well, the child looks like me, he said.
	Well, and of course, maybe she has a type.
	Skeptical, yes.
	That's a skepticism. Can you see anything on the ultrasound in two weeks?
	No, not really. A couple of weeks in, you can maybe see a sac, but it's at least, what, six to eight weeks before you can see any kind of baby.
	Guess what? She was a mental health nurse.
	Yeah. So, all right.
	Listen, enough.
	We'll probably put the call out at some point.
	But, yeah, that was kind of rough.
	That was kind of rough. Alright, I guess I could start Telegram too, right?
	Yeah, fine. Yeah, fine.
	Yeah, we're good. Alright, let's turn off our sound there.
	Let's almost forget about that and get a binkity bink.
	I like how Skype is like now, hey, you never signed up for any news, but here's some news.
	Stop helping me.
	You need to call in at some point.
	Oh, no. Oh, you didn't.
	Did you just hear a click as someone tripped or stepped on the rant mine?
	Did somebody...
	I heard a click.
	Yeah, I heard that.
	Like Killing Field style, right?
	right somebody just stepped on the rent mine didn't they isn't Oppenheimer a
	sequel in Japan Anyway, okay, I will give you the rant.
	I'm happy to help. I will give you the rant if you guess what set it off.
	What set off?
	What pulls the pin on the rant grenade?
	I need to call in, right?
	I should call in. Why?
	I should call in at some point.
	Do you know why people say... here's what happens, I'll tell you.
	Ayn Rand, yeah.
	So here's the thing. Do you know what I can guarantee you from people who are like, oh, I've got to call it at some point.
	Do you know what they're really saying? Here's what they're generally saying.
	For real, for real. Here's what they're generally saying.
	Steph, while it's true that you are a magician of disaster prevention, here's what I'm going to do.
	Here's what I'm going to do, Steph. It's true that prevention, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
	Here's what I'm going to do.
	My plan is to wait till my life is a complete fucking disaster that could have easily been prevented by philosophical knowledge and self-knowledge and self-understanding and reasoned principles and you people.
	I don't wait. Why prevent when you can ask for an impossible cure?
	Stage four. No prevention.
	I'm going to wait until I'm having a heart attack in the moment and I call up the nutritionist.
	That's what I hear.
	Oh, I've got to call in sometime, man.
	I've got some stories to tell.
	But let me wait until my stories become completely disastrous and unrecoverable from and then I'll call in and then you know what I'll say?
	I'll say, well, you know, philosophy doesn't really seem to be that effective because it didn't reverse time for me.
	It didn't... If I could turn back time, it didn't reverse time for me.
	And so what happens is people feel helpless in their lives because they won't prevent disaster.
	So because they feel helpless in their lives, they then wait until disaster has occurred and then they call me up.
	Why? So that I can also feel helpless as well.
	Mmm, that's some tasty spread.
	A pathological paralysis.
	Lovely. I'm going to wait until it can't be fixed, and then I'm going to call in Steph, and that way he also can feel helpless as well.
	It will make a better call-in after.
	Yeah, okay, but don't you guys want a couple of prevention call-ins and not a here's-what-not-to-do call-ins?
	But Steph, people need some disaster in their life.
	Do you not feel, Morgan, my friend, do you not feel that life serves you up a regular conveyor belt of shit sandwiches and you don't actually need to go burrowing in the dumpster to get your own?
	Life is just...
	Life is great.
	Love life. But love life in a free society like I wrote about in my novel The Future.
	But right now, isn't society just this endless rose of hey!
	If you like doing lockdowns again, hey!
	I think we're going to come up with a new vaccine.
	Hey! We might make it a bit more compulsory this time.
	Hey! Just when you're getting used to things, I think we're going to do another disaster again.
	Oh, are you guys not buying the climate change thing?
	Let's do another virus. Don't you think...
	Isn't this... doesn't this feel like just as regular Kabeya Bell to force fed shit sandwiches?
	Ong-ong-ong-ong-ong-ong-ong-ong-ong!
	Oh, you mentioned Skype.
	I was hooking for another tech rant.
	Well, I do like my tech rants.
	But unfortunately, tech rants need two.
	Oh, no. Oh, come on.
	I can't do two. I'm not 17 anymore.
	I can't go twice in a row.
	Okay. Okay.
	Why do tech rants lead to more rants?
	With this lovely answer.
	Why do my tech rants lead to more rants?
	Ah, tell me. Because you're a tech guy?
	No. They get you fired up?
	No. Everything is connected?
	Don't know what that means. You go to the hot dog vendor who's a Buddhist and you say, make me one with everything.
	Keep the change. Because change comes from within.
	Okay. P for philosophy, R for rant.
	I can go either way. I go both ways.
	P for philosophy, R for rant.
	Come on, let's...
	Oh, you guys want philosophy?
	Okay, that's fair. All right, I will...
	Oh, just one person wants the rant?
	Rantlossophy. Okay, we'll do philosophy.
	All right, so we'll put the rant to one side.
	I will make a note of it.
	P for philosophy. Now, would you like me...
	To give you a speech.
	Okay, S, Q, or P's.
	S for speech, Q for answer a question from the audience, and P for a bit of the Peaceful Parent book.
	Right? P, Q, S, S, P, Q, S, P, Q, R, like all kinds of Roman over here.
	All right. Thank you for the tip.
	My gosh, I can't even believe I forgot to.
	I forgot to ask.
	X. Oh, aren't you all so clever.
	God, what was S again?
	I'm so bad. What was S again?
	I should remember this. Of course I should.
	But I don't. What was S again?
	Speech. Okay. Let's do the speech, then lead into the book.
	Oh, you're saying my speech is just foreplay?
	All right. Alright, here we go.
	So, you can gather your questions.
	Keep them handy. Don't post them in the middle of my speech, because I'll just lose them.
	Because you guys are going to praise this speech.
	No end. So, this is a speech I promised a week or two ago, and it's called Philosophy as Vengeance.
	Now, virtue as vengeance.
	Virtue as vengeance.
	Vengeance will be mine, saith the Lord.
	Right. So...
	What's not the only, but not unimportant?
	What's one of the main reasons, let me not say main, what is a reason, whatever percentage you want to apply to it, what is a reason why I became a peaceful parent?
	I mean, yes, there's virtue, there's morals, there's the ethics, there's the consistency, there's the empathy, but let me tell you, a slightly darker reason That I became a peaceful parent.
	Alright. Let me see what these lovely answers are.
	Hate of the evil. Nope.
	Your mama. Yeah, break the cycle.
	Get back at mom. Happy old age to have someone to talk to.
	Revenge on food because of how you were raised.
	Your own experience in childhood wasn't peaceful.
	Rage and hate of how you were raised.
	Oh, you guys.
	Look, I appreciate that you think I'm not that petty.
	Like, I absolutely appreciate.
	To show your mom it could be done. She's not watching.
	To prove it could be done. It's important.
	Revenge, genes, vengeance.
	It's just me saying vengeance.
	Revenge on your mom. No, no, no, no.
	Middle finger to the abusers.
	No. Even that's too elevated.
	I'm afraid it's even more petty than that.
	No. Nothing that elevated.
	Look, there's lots of elevated stuff in here.
	There's lots of elevated stuff in here.
	I'm not going to hide that, right? But here's the thing.
	On a 1 to 10, if you were harmed as a child, how angry are you about being harmed as a child?
	One to ten. Yeah, oops, sorry, I was annoying.
	So two, eight, nine to ten, we got a ten.
	That's a very calm person there.
	Six, ten, right.
	What is the primary thing that you're angry about if you were harmed as a child?
	What's the primary thing that you're angry about?
	I mean, I know it's a lot of things, but what's the top one?
	That they could have done better. All right.
	Lack of a role model. Being ignored.
	The super shitty excuses afterwards.
	Ruined my whole life. No, it didn't.
	Oh, come on. It doesn't ruin your whole life.
	Call in. Call in. Call in. Call in at freedomain.com.
	Humiliation, manipulation and lies.
	No guidance. No reason. Confusion about why.
	The double standard...
	Injustice, injustice, abuse of power, the humiliation and neglect after they use me as a punching bag, the lack of honesty about everything, parents not trying to understand me, no justice, all the bullshit.
	All right. I mean, obviously, parents not expressing emotion, setting terrible examples, feel like part of my life was a waste, the experiences I have to endure, ignore my troubles when I needed help, anti-reason, the things I'm left with today I still struggle with, my sympathies, parents didn't seek to have knowledge like I did.
	Right. No curiosity.
	Okay. All right.
	On a 1 to 10, how petty do you think my answer is going to be?
	For what reason as to why I became a peaceful parent?
	Let's just see, you know, because I don't want you guys to hold me in too high esteem, so I'm just willing to...
	Oh, yes, we're in there.
	7, 9, 8, 7, 8.
	Oh, yes. Oh, 15!
	15! My gosh.
	All right. So, yes.
	Three. Oh, thank you, Rising Nature.
	That's very kind. Not particularly accurate.
	Maybe one. One to two.
	You ain't petty. All right.
	Two. Six. So, one of the main things that I got angry about is that other people didn't intervene and could have done better.
	The people, the family, the outsiders, that's one of the things I'm most angry about with regards to my childhood is how nobody intervened.
	Nobody intervened. Now, I feel a little shy about this one, but what the heck?
	I said I'd be honest, right?
	Okay. Can I complain about other people not intervening if I myself do not intervene?
	Can I myself complain about other people not doing better despite having bad childhoods if I did not do better despite having a bad childhood?
	Can I Whine, nag, complain, stitch and bitch at the world for not doing better if I don't do better.
	So I'll tell you, I'll be straight up frank, one of the reasons I do better is so I can complain.
	That is one of the reasons why I get to the...
	...
	...
	That is one of the reasons.
	So, I mean, look, I like to help out, provide what you weren't denied.
	I'm glad to help people with their childhoods.
	But one of the reasons I take the call-in shows and I help people with their childhoods is so that I can complain about nobody helping me with my childhood.
	OMG, I'm going to have to peacefully parent now.
	That's not petty. It gives you the necessary credibility.
	Listen, I appreciate that, and I absolutely appreciate that, and I'm not down on myself.
	I'm just saying part of it is so I can complain.
	A lot of it is virtue.
	Don't get me wrong. A lot of it is principles and virtue, and I get all of most of it, but there's a slice.
	I don't have it down to an atomic science, but there's a wee little old slicey lads of, well, shit, I really want to complain.
	So I have to do better. Do you see what I'm saying?
	In your day-to-day life, have you ever witnessed a parenting situation where you felt compelled to intervene or did intervene?
	Yes, I have intervened a number of times.
	I have intervened. I remember being in a parking lot and I could hear a father screaming at his children through the closed doors of their car.
	It was that loud. And I went up and I knocked and I said, I said to the guy, look, I'm You don't want to parent like this.
	This is not who you want to be.
	This is not what you got into parenting for.
	Come on. I mean, it's like, well, it's been a long drive.
	I understand that. But this is not.
	I mean, your kids are terrified, right?
	I can hear you halfway across the parking lot.
	You don't want to do this. I'm telling you, you don't want to do this.
	Whatever you have to do, anchor management, therapy, whatever you have to do, this you don't want to be doing.
	Well, you have to be very gentle.
	It's like disarming a bomb.
	Because if you come up aggressive, and I certainly felt aggressive, but if you come up aggressive, he'll just take it out on the kids later because he won't take any ownership himself.
	So he'll just get angry at the kids for, you know, you got me so angry that this guy had to come knock on, right?
	So you have to be you have to appeal to the very sad part of themselves about how they're acting I
	Mean can you imagine see I want to have credibility with myself when I'm bitching at the world
	world.
	Bye.
	Well, what you want to do...
	No, he didn't.
	He did hang his head a little bit.
	And he was like, because clearly this is not who he wanted to be as a parent.
	And I said, look, I sympathize.
	It can be frustrating. But this is not the answer.
	Like, this is not the answer, and it's going to be tough for your kids, and they're going to get older, and they're going to remember this stuff.
	And what would the ideal intervention have looked like for you as a child?
	So for me, I can tell you that there were a lot of people, I think, who assumed that,
	you know, it's funny because when I was younger I didn't like the fact that I went to boarding
	Now, of course, I look back on it and boarding school was pretty good for me because it got me away from my mom and got me into a masculine environment, a masculine-centric environment, right?
	Although we still had a woman who was one of these crazy, one flew over the cuckoo's nest, nurse ratchet nurses.
	And, of course, you look back and you say, okay, well, here's a woman.
	She was in her probably early 40s and she was taking care of a bunch of kids and she had no husband, no kids of her own, no family.
	So I don't know exactly what I would have preferred when I was a kid.
	I would have liked it if somebody had called the police when I was being assaulted, because then the police could have come by, we could have got a social worker, and something better might have come out of it.
	But here's the thing. So I kicked my mother out when I was 15.
	And see, I guess if people were concerned and say, oh, well, if I come and talk to your mother, then she's going to take it out on you.
	But when I was 15, I was out from under my mother.
	Anybody could have come and said, man, I watched this for years and this was really terrible and so on, right?
	But even into my 20s, People were like, oh, how is your poor mother?
	And how is she doing? Is she okay?
	She seemed really tense.
	You know, all that kind of stuff, right? So that was the problem.
	Even now. Like, even now.
	Even now. I've been a public figure for 17, 18 years, and how many people from my past have contacted me to say, oh man, I didn't know how bad you had it.
	I mean, I'm sure a lot of people listened to the show, wouldn't you, if you found...
	Even now, yes, even now.
	And look at the media, right?
	The media doesn't say, boy, you know, this guy...
	Yeah, we don't like some of his arguments, but boy, he had it rough as a kid, right?
	Nope, nope, nope.
	So yeah, it's...
	But to legitimately be able to complain...
	To legitimately be able to complain is a great gift.
	It's really, really satisfying.
	And it might be petty. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's petty.
	But it's okay. I don't have to have deep motivations for everything.
	But no one who knew in your past reached out about the show?
	Oh, no. Absolutely not.
	Absolutely not. I mean, I'm absolutely, I won't get into any names, of course, but I'm absolutely convinced that, I mean, I'm absolutely convinced that people from my past were following my social media, listening to the shows.
	No one ever, not once, has ever reached out of the dozens and dozens and dozens of people who knew me in the past, has ever reached out and said, wow, didn't know how bad it was.
	I'm really sorry. I'm sorry I didn't say anything.
	I'm sorry I didn't do anything. No, never.
	Not once. Like, I'm 57 years old.
	It's been 32 years, right?
	It's been 32 years since I went solo, right?
	Wait, is that right? No.
	37 years, right? Yeah.
	Oh, 41. Oh my God, I'm way off.
	Sorry. Well, it's been almost 42 years.
	Sorry, I slipped a digit in my brain there.
	Yeah, it's been over four decades since I went solo.
	I'm surprised you would have had liked government intervention.
	Sounds like that path would have led you to foster care.
	Any opinions on the current foster care system?
	Well, the foster care system wasn't as bad back when I was a kid.
	Certainly not in England. I'm surprised you would have liked government intervention.
	Well, my mom called the cops on me anyway, so...
	It's just that the cops yelled at me and told me that I had to understand my mother and listen to her and obey her and they never asked me how I was doing, right?
	So, and I do think that there are some, I mean, certainly back then I think there were some good social workers.
	I don't think it would have gone to the foster care system, but I think it would have put a shot across my mother's bowels and she would have restrained from some of her violence.
	I think that's the case. It wasn't bad enough.
	Like, my mom wasn't a drug addict or anything, right?
	So it wasn't like I wasn't getting any food or anything.
	So I don't think it would have gone to a foster care system.
	And it wouldn't have gone to a foster care system anyway.
	Because my father's sisters had big families, lived in England and regularly put us up.
	And my brother stayed there for a couple of years when I was in my early teens with them, stayed with them in England for a couple of years.
	That's why I was alone for a couple of years with my mother when she was literally losing her mind and ended up being institutionalized.
	So my brother lived there, and we would have just gone to live with my aunts.
	I mean, they put my brother up for a couple of years, and when I was younger, they put me up from time to time, so we wouldn't have gone into the foster care system.
	We'd have just gone to live with my aunts.
	Living with my aunts was really nice.
	I mean, they always look for relatives first, right?
	You don't go straight into foster care.
	And there were relatives who would have absolutely helped out.
	It's one of the things I had, is that when my brother went back to England for a couple of years, I didn't get one phone call from anyone.
	I mean I'd left alone with this really disturbed and violent woman
	and my brother got rescued and nobody called me, nobody wrote me a letter, nobody asked me how I was doing, it was
	just nothing.
	So and I met them years later and
	nothing was said and nothing was maintained and nothing was talked about.
	Bye.
	So, yeah, it's a strange thing, man.
	Why did your brother get to go to England?
	Was it a coin flip?
	I couldn't honestly tell you I was 11, right?
	Or 12. I couldn't honestly tell you what the decision process was.
	So my mom went to Germany.
	I stayed with a friend of mine's grandparents I didn't even know for the summer.
	And we were all supposed to get back together in the fall, but my brother never came back for years.
	Somebody says, I remember I intervened when a parent spanked my little sibling.
	They stopped ever doing it again.
	One of the best feelings ever. Can't believe more people don't do it.
	Good. Good for you. Good for you.
	In fact, you know, it's funny because I remember I was telling this story many years ago and a friend of mine said, wait a minute, why didn't you also go to England?
	Like, why did they separate the siblings?
	And, you know, you just kind of chug along in your life.
	I guess I was in my early 20s back then, maybe 22, 23.
	And I was telling this story, and I remember this woman, she said, well, why did they split up their siblings?
	Why didn't you go to England? And I was like, you know, that's never...
	You ever have these things where it's like that's a completely obvious question that never crossed your mind?
	Why would you split up?
	Why wouldn't you go to England too?
	I don't have a relationship with my brother now.
	I mean, I think I know the answer.
	I think I know the answer. I don't know the answer for sure, and I'll never know the answer for sure because nobody will ever tell me the truth about it.
	But I think I know the answer.
	And it's a younger sibling answer.
	I don't know, do we want to go dark?
	Hit me D for dark, or we can stay less dark.
	D for dark, are you sure?
	Right, you want to know?
	Ah, ah, ah, you ought to know.
	So any guesses as to why I wasn't sent to England when I was 11 or 12?
	Sacrificed younger more disposable Your mother wanted to cling to you.
	You couldn't fight back. He was older.
	Your mom wanted a companion.
	Mom needed someone around to abuse.
	It's darker than that. Younger, easier to control.
	Yeah, Chris, you got it.
	I would have told her. I would have told her.
	I would have told her. Because I was at the bottom.
	So I had nothing to lose.
	I had nothing to lose.
	I had no guilt. I gained no benefit from the family system.
	I'd never been lured into being cruel to others.
	I'd never done it. So I had nothing to lose.
	So I would have told. So I couldn't go to England because I would have told.
	My brother never did. Was she getting government assistance for having you?
	Yes, I'm sure that there was some.
	I'm sure that there was some but not much Everybody like the abusers move you around like that. They
	know everything right?
	They know everything. It's the chess pieces, right?
	They know everything. Who's going to tell?
	Who's not? Who's safe to put over here?
	Who's safe to put over there? You know, and my brother didn't say, my brother's older, of course, and my brother didn't say, no, we're not splitting up.
	No, I'm not leaving him behind.
	It's my brother. We can't leave him behind.
	You have to get him back up. You have to get him over here.
	Didn't happen.
	I was just left back to rot in the asylum.
	I was just left back to rot in the asylum.
	Thank you.
	I empathize deeply with this.
	In my situation, I told them my dad still sent me back to visit my abusive stepdad.
	It's abusive stepdad, so it's not a guarantee that they wouldn't have done anything anyway.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you.
	I mean, that's why, you know, I call my mom crazy, but she wasn't crazy.
	She wasn't crazy. You know, it's really, I think in general, in general, I think it's fair to say, I think you'll go and forgive like Jesse Peterson says to do.
	Why would you assume I haven't forgiven?
	It's interesting. First of all, what is forgiveness?
	And why would he assume I haven't forgiven?
	Did you go to her and tell her that?
	Who? Oh, sorry.
	Is that to someone else?
	else I'm not sure what that refers to.
	Because of the defoo thing.
	I'm sorry, are you saying that the only way to tell if someone's forgiven someone else is if they've forgiven them, they continue a relationship?
	That's the only way to know?
	Like, does forgiveness mean you automatically resume the relationship?
	So I'm not trying to be picky.
	I'm genuinely trying to sort of understand what you mean.
	What do you mean by forgiveness?
	I'm not trying to be harsh or anything I'm genuinely curious what you mean by forgiveness and forgiveness.
	I mean... Now, if you say, what's your definition of forgiveness and have you forgiven him, say, or her, then that would be interesting.
	But assuming that I haven't is interesting.
	You can forgive and not have contact.
	Well, sure, of course. Say, I forgive you for what you did to her face.
	Okay, but what does forgiveness mean?
	We wouldn't want to just mouth the words, right?
	Like you could teach that word to somebody who only spoke Polynesian or that African clicking language.
	You could teach syllables.
	of what would it mean, what does it mean to say I forgive you for what you did?
	I'm curious Steph what do you mean by forgiveness?
	Did you forgive your mother, at least in your own mind?
	The whole situation has my head spinning.
	Not hold it against them.
	That's kind of circular.
	That's just another definition of forgiveness.
	Okay, let me ask questions here.
	And this is a very interesting topic.
	I'm not at all upset or offended.
	I'm genuinely curious. Okay, so with regards to forgiveness, let's say somebody has done you a great evil, right?
	Let's say that they've done you a great evil for many years.
	Right? What does it mean to say, I forgive you?
	you, does it mean that you... do you reject that they have free will? Like in other
	words, do you say... like if someone hits you and then it turns out they... it was
	their first attack of epilepsy and they never meant to hit you, then clearly
	that was an accident. They didn't have free will over hitting you. Can we agree
	with that?
	Right, so does forgiving someone...
	So, you forgive someone when it was a genuine accident, right?
	I mean, you know, when I play wrestle with my daughter, occasionally, every now and then, someone would get an elbow to the nose or whatever, right?
	Or I was giving her a foot massage the other day and her foot got worse or more tense or whatever.
	I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, right? But so, we never mean to hurt each other, but occasionally it will happen, right?
	So... It's the line from Hamlet.
	Can you forgive me? I didn't mean to do you wrong.
	It's like I've shot an arrow over my house and hit my brother.
	Forgiveness is the removal of anger.
	That's not at all what the definition of forgiveness is, so I don't know what that means.
	And again, I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just genuinely curious.
	So if you say, I forgive Sally, call her Sally.
	I forgive Sally.
	Let's say Sally falsely accused you of rape, right?
	She falsely accused you of rape and you faced years of legal threats and you had to spend $150,000 defending yourself against Sally's accusations, right?
	You falsely accused of rape by Sally.
	To forgive Sally, what does that mean?
	Does that mean that you are pretending it didn't happen?
	Because that would be kind of weird, wouldn't it?
	I mean, that would be literally erasing your memory or your life, right?
	So it doesn't mean pretending it didn't happen, right?
	Is that fair? Plus, you want to be careful about people like Sally in the future, right?
	JLP means, well, I think we disagree on the semantics.
	Okay, now, let's take a sort of silly example.
	If we found out later that Sally was possessed by an alien brain worm that was being controlled from Jupiter and making her do these things, then we would forgive her because she was possessed and was not in charge or in control of her own free will.
	Does that make sense? Or, to take another example, if there was a picture of a wife kissing another man, we would be upset with her.
	If, however, she said that there was a guy with a gun in his back forcing her to kiss this man, we would no longer be upset with her.
	In fact, we would go from being angry with her to having great sympathy for her because she'd been kidnapped and forced to kiss another man.
	Does that make sense?
	Because in one situation she has free will that she voluntarily chose to kiss a man and in another she doesn't have free will because somebody has a gun to her back making her kiss another guy.
	So forgiveness can't be that we simply erase what happened because that's kind of schizo, right?
	So we can't just pretend nothing happened.
	That's not forgiveness. That's a brain injury or something like that, right?
	We can't remove from the other person the fact that they have free will.
	Because is it fair to say, can a virtue be achieved by lying?
	Can a virtue be achieved by lying to yourself or to others?
	Is that fair to say?
	We can't really say that a virtue can be achieved by lying, right?
	Okay, so if something happened, right, Sally accuses you of rape unjustly, falsely.
	So saying that didn't happen, I forgive you like it never happened, well, that's saying something didn't happen that did happen, so that's a lie, right?
	So we can't do that, because that's lying, and lying can't lead to a virtue.
	And if forgiveness is a virtue, we can't lie our way there, right?
	Now, if Sally says, I had no control over what I was doing, But she pursued these accusations for a year or two or three or whatever it is, right?
	And spread rumors and lied and posted on social media and all that.
	Then clearly she was in control of what she was doing, right?
	So if we say, I forgive you because you didn't know what you were doing, that's a lie.
	Because she did know what she was doing and she did it consistently and she wasn't possessed by a demon and she didn't have an alien brain tadpole, right?
	She wasn't taken over by a mind flayer, right?
	So we can't say it didn't happen and we can't say she had no free will because those would be lies and lies can't lead to virtue and if forgiveness is a virtue you can't lie about what happened.
	Does that make sense? And also, can we say a virtue should not put you in further and future danger?
	Can we sort of agree with that?
	Like a virtue, something that's good for you, something that's good, can't expose you to terrible repetitive dangers, right?
	Right. So if someone does you a great evil...
	you go on with your relationship as if they hadn't done that great evil,
	then aren't you signaling to evildoers that they can do you great evil and will
	never suffer any negative consequences?
	Forgiveness only happens inside of ourselves.
	It might remove guilt from the other person, but it doesn't change their personality on a fundamental level.
	To continue to deal with that person when they haven't changed is to put yourself in danger of harm again.
	Forgiveness only happens inside of ourselves.
	It might remove guilt from the other person.
	I don't know what that means.
	How can you remove guilt from another person?
	I don't understand that.
	I don't understand that.
	How can you remove...
	If somebody's guilty, you can't remove the guilt from them, can you?
	And if you believe that they're guilty, either you're correct or incorrect.
	If you're correct, you can't remove the guilt for yourself without lying, and if you're incorrect, there's an injustice that needs to be fixed.
	Can we also say that if something that is considered to be a virtue, if it were practiced by society as a whole, That society would be destroyed.
	It can't be a virtue. Right?
	So, if forgiveness is a virtue, but we apply it to society as a whole, and society falls apart, right?
	So, do you know, out in California, in certain areas, the police have said, if you steal something worth less than $950, you won't be prosecuted.
	I don't know if you've heard that or not.
	Hit me with a Y if you've heard that.
	And there's kind of a joke, like, that some store owners are making everything $951, but giving people coupons at the checkout, right?
	So, If you say to someone, if you steal from me, I forgive you.
	If you do me evil, I forgive you, which would mean you couldn't have any laws or punishments for theft, right?
	Now, what happens in a society if you don't have any punishments for theft?
	What happens to that society?
	Let's say that all laws that would punish theft all vanished.
	What would happen? How long would society last as a whole?
	Yeah, it would collapse, right?
	Right? Of course, right?
	Now what if anybody could say he or she was a doctor
	and they could get a job as a doctor and nobody would ever check their training?
	Or a judge or...
	Right? But let's say anyone could say, oh yeah, I'm a board certified surgeon and
	they lie about it. Right?
	you What would happen to the healthcare system?
	There'll be lots of dead people, right?
	So that would be, you would get a good salary as a surgeon and then everyone would have
	to forgive you when they found out you weren't a surgeon.
	And I assume that for a lot of people that would mean continue the relationship.
	So somebody claims to be a surgeon, they're not a surgeon, they get paid $400,000 a year
	and even after you find out they're not a surgeon and they've killed a bunch of people,
	you've got to forgive them and keep paying them, right?
	So we have a couple of ways of looking at forgiveness, right?
	Is this an interesting topic?
	I want to make sure that this is of value to you guys.
	Hit me with a Y if this is interesting and if it's not, which is fine.
	We can move on if it's not, right?
	Okay. So, society punishes.
	Now, when you were a child in school...
	If you didn't study, or if you misbehaved, or if you did something wrong, were you forgiven, or were you punished?
	F for forgiveness, P for punishment Yeah, we were punished, right?
	Mostly punished. I mean, occasionally you'd find some nice teacher who'd let you off the hook or whatever, right?
	But for the most part you'd be punished, right?
	Now do you know what did you know what the slave morality is?
	Thanks for watching!
	Do you hit me with a why if you know what slave morality is?
	Right about 50-50 So slave morality...
	Oh yes, please tip.
	I appreciate that. Slave morality is when you make a virtue out of something you're unable to do.
	Right? Right? So as a child, when you have a teacher, can the teacher punish you?
	Yes, the teacher can punish you.
	What can the teacher do?
	So when I was a kid, I got caned.
	I had to do lines.
	I had to stay after school.
	I got humiliated.
	I had to go sit in the hallway.
	I had to go sit in the corner.
	There used to be a dunce cap around, right?
	So the teacher can punish you, right?
	You've got detention, right?
	So, there was a lot of not-forgiving children who, you know, and I was, of course, the victim of severe child abuse and all that.
	So, there was a lot of not-forgiving children when I was a kid, right?
	Yeah, no recess. You get kept in at recess and so on.
	No snacks, no food.
	I even got humiliated when I did not have enough money for lunch.
	My mother never packed a lunch, but we were supposed to have 25 pence for lunch, and she kept forgetting to put it in the jar.
	There was a little sign my brother had made called, don't forget diner money.
	It was supposed to be dinner, because dinner was lunch.
	So your teacher can punish you as a child.
	Now, can you punish your teacher as a child?
	Can you punish your teacher as a child?
	No. You cannot.
	So, slave morality is when you're angry and you're frustrated.
	Now, hit me with a why if you were unjustly punished by a teacher as a child.
	Hit me with a why for every single one of the times that happened.
	Were you unjustly punished?
	Right? Yeah, of course you were, right?
	Of course you were. I mean, I was caned in boarding school just because I climbed over a fence to get a ball.
	There's not a screen big enough, right?
	So, When you're a kid, you can't punish your teachers and you can't punish your parents, right?
	You were Cain for not dotting I's and crossing T's.
	So, as a child, you can't punish those bigger and stronger than you.
	You cannot enact any punishment against people.
	Fella says, I was struck by three female teachers without any reason given.
	It's still surprisingly frustrating to consider.
	consider it has been a long time, but that's what we're digging here, right?
	So when you don't have power, when you don't have power, what is your consolation prize?
	So you can be punished, this is why it's master-slave morality.
	The master can beat the slave, the slave cannot beat the master.
	The master can unjustly accuse the slave and get away with it, the slave can't do it.
	The master can be lazy, the slave can't do it.
	So the slave is helpless, the slave can't get away, the slave can't fight back, it's really humiliating.
	So, what is the defense mechanism, psychologically, of the slave?
	Some made-up virtue?
	.
	Slow down. Do things poorly or slowly.
	Resentment, yeah, for sure. Forgiveness, that's right.
	I can't punish, so forgiveness is a virtue.
	Masters can be lazy, absolutely.
	They don't get beaten by the slaves for being lazy, but the slave gets beaten by the master for being lazy.
	Master can be lazy. The concept of forgiveness as it's commonly talked about arises out of an inability to punish because you can't punish and you have to find a way to live with your humiliation.
	You create a magical virtue called forgiveness that makes you superior when all it does is cover up Your lack of power, your helplessness, your powerlessness.
	Which is why your teachers punished you.
	Your teachers punished you because they had power.
	and you were told to forgive and forget because you had no power.
	And that, the slave morality is...
	Rather than trying to gain power in this world, I will make up fake virtues and have power in the next world.
	And listen, when you're a slave, I mean, what else are you going to do?
	You can't escape, usually.
	You can't fight back. I mean, it did happen at some times.
	I mean, I'm sure you know the story of Dostoevsky's father, Fyodor Dostoevsky, the great Russian writer.
	His father was such a cruel and drunken man.
	Surf owner that his serfs finally banded together tied Dostoevsky's father to a chair and fed him alcohol until he died of alcohol poisoning.
	That was how appalling Dostoevsky's father was.
	So tell me an example.
	Tell me an example. Where you had significantly less power but decided not to forgive.
	or somebody who has significantly more power who decides to forgive.
	It very rarely happens.
	...
	It very rarely happens.
	When somebody says it's important to forgive, what I hear is, I am convinced of my powerlessness.
	I've been convinced of my powerlessness.
	Because I have no power, I get this magical virtue called forgiveness.
	Now, how do we know That it's mostly a bullshit virtue.
	The question was badly framed.
	I'll get there another way.
	Because forgiveness is a virtue that never provokes evildoers.
	Forgiveness is a virtue that never provokes evildoers.
	...
	Do you see what I mean? It's not convenient.
	It's safe.
	Now is a safe virtue really a virtue?
	Virtue must promote goodness.
	Now, to promote goodness is to do what?
	to evil. If goodness spreads, what happens to evil?
	It decreases, of course.
	Well, maybe not perishes.
	But if you promote virtue...
	Hello, story of my life.
	So, if you promote virtue, then evil diminishes.
	Does evil like to diminish?
	it does not. Now, does forgiveness weaken or strengthen immorality?
	There is another word for letting go, and we'll get there in a sec.
	Because we already said that if you forgive thieves, then your society collapses because thieves are emboldened, right?
	Now, can something be considered a virtue if it strengthens evil?
	Can something be considered a virtue if it strengthens evil?
	How is this possible to not see?
	I'm sorry to be annoying.
	If virtue equals forgiveness, or if forgiveness is a virtue, why were you never forgiven as
	a child?
	Forgiveness means, I'm not fighting!
	That's all it means. I give up.
	I disarm myself. I'm not fighting.
	I'm going to retreat into smug, moral, imaginary superiority rather than taking on any bad people in this world.
	That's all it means.
	Let them get away with it, get a jail-free card.
	I'm not fighting. I give up.
	You can have the world. I'm going to just have my platonic cave of moral superiority that's never going to interfere with any of your interests.
	in fact allows evil to run rampant across the land.
	Tell me if I'm wrong.
	I'm happy to hear how I'm wrong.
	Thank you.
	you Now, if forgiveness benefits evil, who teaches you to
	forgive?
	The bad guys.
	Of course they do. Of course they do.
	Never hold me accountable for the evil I do is not said by good people ever anywhere at any time.
	And Jesus didn't say it.
	Jesus didn't say it.
	Christianity sure as hell doesn't say it.
	Forgiveness is a way of feeling good without putting yourself at any risk whatsoever.
	Somebody says, this is so timely.
	Somebody says, this is so timely.
	Just finished up the financial mediation for my divorce.
	You and I spoke back in January.
	Little did I know at the time that my ex already had a new townhome picked out.
	She's already made plans to leave. She was the one who racked up $50,000 in credit card debt without my knowledge.
	Sadly, the mediators found that I was still on the phone on the hook for her debt.
	I lost my 401k, but I got to keep the house.
	Sorry about that. I had a horrible stalker ex-boyfriend.
	Eventually, I forgave him to get the anger out of me and move on with my life.
	Jesus did say it.
	Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do.
	All right. Jesus said that about who?
	Who did Jesus say that about?
	He said that on the cross, right?
	No, not his persecutors.
	I don't think. Again, I'm no expert on this, but I think Jesus said it about the soldiers.
	The soldiers who were nailing him up.
	No. The people nailing him to the cross.
	Again, I'm no expert, but my understanding...
	No, I don't know it was those who condemned him.
	Now, if he was talking about the soldiers, were the soldiers in a state of free will?
	Were the soldiers there voluntarily agreed with the rulers and could leave at any time?
	They were slaves, right? They know not what they do.
	They have no choice about what they do.
	It's my wife kissing another guy with a gun to her back.
	They know not what they do.
	They have no choice in what they do.
	They have, right? So, Jesus, I assume, didn't want slave-on-slave violence, right?
	What do you think of the Charles Manson case?
	I've got a whole truth about Charles Manson.
	You can find that at fdrpodcast.com.
	Yeah, I mean, the Roman soldiers were literally dragged out of their beds, forced, conscripted, and murdered if they didn't obey.
	They were worse than slaves in many ways.
	He's saying they're not in a state of freedom.
	freedom, they can't make any moral choices because they either nail me to a cross or
	they will get killed.
	This is the consolation prize for powerlessness and it's a lie.
	Bye.
	you Let me ask you this.
	Again, this is like, there's no such thing as the truth.
	Is that a true statement? If forgiveness is a virtue, should we forgive those who don't forgive?
	Yeah, it could be the soldier's family would pay for disobedience as well.
	If forgiveness is a virtue, should we forgive those who don't forgive?
	Of course not!
	Because if something's a virtue, the opposite of it is evil.
	So, is it good to approve of people or hold people to no consequences if they're doing evil?
	Of course not! Isn't good kind of a war with evil?
	And evil is at war with good.
	So, if forgiveness is a virtue, is it virtuous to forgive those who don't forgive?
	Of course not. Because that is to say that both forgiveness and not forgiving is a virtue.
	So, if your parents abused you, do you know what abuse means?
	I don't forgive you.
	Abuse means I don't forgive you.
	Are we there? You can't be both abused and forgiven.
	Can we agree on that? Because if you get spanked, your parent is explicitly not forgiving you.
	If they scream at you, if they hit you, if they lock you in your room, if they put you in a timeout, they've not forgiven you.
	Is that right? We can agree on that, right?
	Because to forgive someone is to not hold them accountable for their actions.
	This is why I said if somebody's wronged you grievously for many years.
	So, can you forgive people who do not practice the virtue of forgiveness?
	No. If forgiveness is a virtue, those who abuse others based on a lack of forgiveness are evil.
	See, everybody wants to create a virtue with no shadow.
	Everybody wants to, me too, I mean, everybody wants to create a virtue with no downside.
	Ooh, I just want to have a drug that's not addictive, right?
	Like that old, I want a new drug, one that don't make me sick, one that won't make me nervous, wondering what to do, one that makes me feel like I'm feeling I'm with you, right?
	You want a drug with no downside.
	I want to live consequence-free, as that old Great Big C song goes.
	I want a drink with no hangover.
	I want sugar with no fat.
	I want late nights without being tired.
	Poor Huey. Yeah, Huey was rough, man.
	He fried one ear in the 80s and fried his other ear a year or two ago, and he got suicidal, I think.
	It's just rough, man. Tough life.
	Well, I mean, it's like Pete Townsend and Roger Daltrey of The Who.
	They've got basically no hearing left and they said, my God, we have these crazy loud concerts for no reason all
	the time.
	So everybody wants a virtue they can feel good about themselves
	that they're doing good, that doesn't provoke evil.
	I get that, of course.
	Everybody wants the good with no bad.
	Everyone wants the upside with no downside.
	Everyone wants the pretty girl.
	Nobody wants the risk of rejection.
	Everyone wants to get paid without a job.
	Everyone wants to feel virtuous by hating on the virtuous, right?
	You know, there are like 27 million slaves in the world today.
	But everyone wants to get mad at white people for America's...
	America was a slave-owning country for like 80 years, right?
	And the British finally finished paying off the debt they incurred to flee the slaves worldwide.
	The British finally ended up paying off that debt in like 2012 or something like that.
	So everybody wants to...
	I'm a virtuous person because I attack those who are already nice.
	I condemn those, right?
	We won't fight back. So judge not and you shall not be judged.
	I may have a slightly different take on that.
	If you, so judge not and you will not be judged.
	That's right. You won't be judged.
	You'll just be condemned and attacked.
	Because if you refuse to judge, you're showing weakness in slavery
	and helplessness and an addiction to false virtue.
	Yeah, all of these virtuous people in the world, particularly in the West, all they do is attack people
	without group preferences.
	Oh.
	They don't put themselves in any danger or any harm whatsoever.
	So when people say to me, have you forgiven?
	Thank you.
	I mean, I do take, and I'm sort of explaining why I do take that as an insult.
	When people say, have you forgiven?
	To me, they're saying, and not, you know, if somebody earns your forgiveness, I think you pay it like a just debt that you owe, right?
	But when people say, have you forgiven, they're putting me in the position of a slave, of somebody who's helpless, of somebody who's powerless, of somebody who is so helpless and powerless that I can't achieve any good because I can't anger any evil, and therefore I just retreat into this foggy cave of imaginary superiority.
	Yeah, have you forgiven with nobody earning it?
	Have you forgiven? Have you forgiven?
	Are you a slave? Christians are called to invade the darkness and fight with light and fight evil.
	Fighting evil and forgiveness are not at odds.
	But you're just saying something.
	We just went through a whole argument here.
	Forgiveness is when you let evil off the hook, isn't it?
	If it's earned, that's different, because if it's earned, you're not forgiving evil, you're acknowledging redemption.
	Right?
	If someone has genuinely repented, asked for your forgiveness, made restitution, given
	you the steps, by which it won't happen again.
	They're no longer evil.
	I mean, that's the best you can do, isn't it?
	Now, that doesn't mean that you're best buddies with them forever, but isn't the best you
	can do if you've wronged someone to acknowledge the wrong, to humbly ask for their forgiveness,
	to make restitution, and to show how it's not going to happen again?
	And if someone is doing the most they can do, then that's the best they can be.
	Does that make sense?
	I mean, I've even done shows with people who relentlessly trolled and harmed my community.
	I've done shows with them where they call in and talk about their childhoods.
	I've had people who've been, you know, kind of, a little to me, mean and insulting in this very chat.
	And I've said, call in and we'll talk about it.
	I've listened to plenty of evil people, says this person, who laugh at those they have taken advantage of and blame their victim for letting them.
	Oh yeah, there's a song in Nigeria, like this sort of Nigerian print scam with, I am the winner, you are the loser, right?
	I mean they're just dancing and happy about all the people they're ripping off.
	Do you care how this relates to Twitter?
	.
	Do you care? I mean, if we...
	You do.
	But you understand, right?
	No, this is exactly it.
	This is the...
	So when people said to me, go back on Twitter, they were saying, be a slave.
	No I'm not going, don't worry, I'm not even remotely tempted.
	I'm not even remotely tempted.
	Obviously, it's cost me money and reach and audience and all of that, but no, I'm not even remotely tempted.
	So, alright.
	Is there another word for letting go or limiting the burden so that it does not limit the victim going forward?
	Freeing. Yes.
	Oh, it's not sanity, it's virtue.
	Alright. Now, the false dichotomy, right?
	The false dichotomy regarding forgiveness goes something like this.
	Tell me if you've ever heard anything like this before.
	Well, if someone's wronged you, even if they don't repent, you have to forgive them because otherwise you will carry that toxic rage and shame and hatred and you will be unable to move on and you'll get stuck there and you just, you have to let it go because otherwise you're not going to have any kind of future.
	You'll have no peace of mind. You'll just be circling the drain and you'll be stuck in this anger and frustration and rage and it's going to poison you and it's going to mess up your future relationships.
	You just have to let go.
	Forgive. It's for you.
	It's not for them. It's for you.
	It's for your peace of mind.
	It's so that you feel better.
	All right, we've all heard that, right?
	A bunch of bullshit. Yeah, I heard a similar version.
	The forgiveness curse. Goosebumps.
	You hear that all the time. Yeah, big time.
	Stockholm Syndrome, in my opinion.
	You can accept it happened and not forgive them.
	This is the ball my dad gave me.
	Gotta just love and forgive.
	I hate it when people wrong me and I'm just supposed to forgive.
	Right. Is it still forgiveness if you get revenge first?
	I don't know. Right.
	right so somebody is saying that an unholy curse will land upon
	you if you don't forgive
	you see what I'm saying? Somebody's putting an unholy curse, a voodoo curse, an unholy curse
	on you if you don't forgive.
	In other words, they're saying...
	You will be unable to forgive yourself if you don't forgive others, and that lack of forgiveness will be torturous for you.
	You will torture yourself with being unable to forgive yourself for not forgiving others.
	You can just will forgiveness no matter what you do, but you can never forgive yourself for failing to forgive others.
	I'm like, what?
	Bizarre, fracked up, lower intestine nonsense are we dealing with here?
	Part of the definition of forgive is to cease to harbor resentment.
	Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, I'm fine with that.
	But if forgiveness is a virtue, you say, well, I'm not going to forgive them.
	No, no, no, forgiveness is a virtue.
	Okay, well, I'll just forgive myself for not forgiving them.
	Do they like that when they hear that?
	Oh no, and you'll forgive me too.
	You'll forgive me if I don't forgive others and I'll forgive myself because forgiveness is a virtue and you can just will it.
	Like if you break this bullshit, ridiculous voodoo crap curse that they put on you, they're like, oh yeah, no, that's a really good point.
	I will forgive you and you will forgive yourself.
	So I guess you don't need to forgive the other person because you're just forgive yourself for not forgiving them.
	They're like, no, if you don't forgive others, you'll be cursed with rage and misery and bitterness.
	Fuck off. Bunch of bullshit.
	Bunch of claustrophobic, manipulative, slave mentality bullshit.
	Now, let's say it's your dad.
	it.
	...
	They're just missing the chicken bones, right?
	It gets even worse. How deep should we go?
	Minus 10 to really deep.
	Plus 10 to staying shallow.
	How deep should we go? If it goes deeper from here.
	Minus 100. Minus 10.
	All right. Do you know two people who died from their own inventions?
	One was the guy who designed the Titanic and the other one who's the guy who designed the sub that collapsed near the Titanic.
	Anyway. All right.
	Let's say your dad abused you, if he abused you.
	Your dad abused you. Why did he abuse you?
	Because he didn't forgive you.
	Now, you understand the logic is, if you don't forgive someone, you're wracked with misery, pain, and guilt for the rest of your life, right?
	You're tortured! You'll never have peace of mind.
	Your relationships will be cursed by your lack of forgiveness.
	Your failure to forgive, you'll be cursed, right?
	Some version of that, right?
	However nice they might put it, right?
	Now, if your father abused you for years or decades because he failed to forgive you,
	then because he failed to forgive you, what is his emotional state by this logic?
	What is his emotional state by this logic?
	He's wrecked. He's tortured.
	He's miserable. He's cursed.
	He has no peace of mind.
	He's self-loathing. He's a mess.
	He's in hell. So a failure to forgive means a horrible and negative emotional state, right?
	So if you punish a child for years or decades because you failed to forgive that child, then you are in a horrible, ghastly, gruesome state.
	Two questions. Number one, why would I want to have someone in my life who's so tortured by their failure to forgive?
	Because you say that a failure to forgive means that you're tortured and my father has done far more harm to me than I ever did to him.
	Why would I want somebody so tortured in my life?
	Number one. Number two, number two, number two.
	You know what the second question is?
	You know what the second question is for these fucking worm tongues?
	I just want to prevent you from feeling bad.
	I just want to rescue you from the hell of failing to forgive.
	I am just a medic of soul agony trying to reach
	those who have failed to forgive.
	Thank you.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	The second question is, why are you talking to me, not my father?
	Why are you talking to me now?
	If a failure to forgive produces emotional hell, and my father abused me for years or decades because he failed to forgive me, then my father is in infinitely more emotional hell than I am.
	Why the fuck are you talking to me?
	You bullshit, spineless, jellyfish asshole coward.
	Triage better, dude.
	It's bullshit.
	Why are you talking to me? If a failure to forgive means emotional hell, my father is 10,000 times in more emotional hell than me, why the fuck are you talking to me?
	Why don't you care about my father?
	Don't you care about my abuser?
	Don't you care? Damn, I missed something big, yeah.
	Room 101 treatment, piling on the abuse until you forgive them the abuse, right?
	So the person who's trying to infect your brain with a curse of misery for failing to forgive is failing to forgive you, is cursing you to be failing to forgive yourself, and is stepping over the person that by his own definition is infinitely more tortured than you are.
	F. This is so important to Protestants slash Evangelicals.
	Can you say that again please? Of course.
	Thank you.
	Somebody who says, you are cursed for failing to forgive, you'll be miserable, stressed, tense, unhappy, you'll never be able to let it go, it'll poison your relationships, you'll be miserable till the day you die, blah, blah, blah.
	They're putting a curse on you.
	They are failing to forgive you for your failure to forgive or for your refusal to forgive also, so they're not even following their own rules.
	Also, they're saying, you will be unable to To forgive yourself, even though forgiveness is such a virtue, just forgive yourself for not forgiving others.
	Then it's fine. I'm Orthodox Jewish, but you're like my non-Jewish rabbi.
	I love your stuff so much. Thanks. Appreciate that.
	It's just philosophy, and there's a lot of philosophy in Judaism, obviously, as there is in Christianity and Islam.
	So... If a failure to forgive produces emotional torture, then parents who abuse their children do so because they don't forgive their children, which means the parents are full of far more emotional torture than their children are.
	So why are you talking to the kids?
	The people trying to put the voodoo curse of misery on those who withhold forgiveness
	from the unrepentant are the wingmen of stone evil doers.
	They're in alliance with them.
	Oh yeah, not forgiving is like drinking poison but expecting the other person to get sick.
	Now, Should we go right to the bottom?
	Do you want to go to the bottom? I don't know.
	Like, we're down at the bottom, but there's digging to go.
	We're like bottom of the Mariana Trench, but we're gonna go to the Earth's core if you want.
	Pass that layer in Meg too.
	Right down to the lava. No, we're going...
	Do you know that the...
	True or false? True or false?
	True or false? The core of the Earth...
	Is hotter or cooler than the surface of the sun?
	Yeah, it's hotter.
	Alright, so we're going straight...
	We're hijacking the boring company.
	We're going straight down. All right. Okay, so let's say you're 30 and your father is 60.
	He abused you when you were a kid and he hasn't repented.
	All right. You're 30, your father's 60, he abused you as a kid, he hasn't repented.
	Now, if he hasn't repented, it means he believes that the harm he did to you as a child is justified.
	Can we agree with that?
	This stuff is like a animal in my inner, it's trying to get free.
	you All right. Can you explain more?
	Sure. Let's say that your father abused you for 15 years when you were a kid.
	15 years later when you're 30 and he's 60.
	He still believes that he was justified in his abuse.
	What if he just ignored it?
	I don't know what you mean by that. You bring it up, right?
	You bring it up, you talk to him, he's like, no, you're a bad kid, no, it's how I was raised, no, it was the right thing to do, no, it was good parenting.
	he justifies it, right?
	So that means...
	Oh, it's going to be hard.
	Alright, that means, that means, that means he still hasn't forgiven you.
	If he's not sorry, he still hasn't forgiven you.
	interview and then remove it using the undo or undo thing and that.
	Because whatever you justify is the opposite of forgiveness.
	So even when you're 30 and he's 60 and he says it was right or it was okay, it was fine, it was justified, he still hasn't forgiven you.
	Because he still believes you did wrong.
	Now, the fact that he's still not punishing you is just because you're older, right?
	He still hasn't forgiven you.
	Now, If he has been your parent at this point for 30 years, right?
	He has been your parent for 30 years, right?
	So as an adult, you talk about it when you confront him, you're 30, he's 60.
	He's been your parent for 30 years.
	So he has 30 years of not forgiving you.
	Of not forgiving you.
	Now let's say that you have only recently realized that he was abusive and you're criticizing him.
	Let's say you've been doing it for a year.
	Whatever, right? You've been doing it for a year.
	So here we have the equation.
	A failure to forgive produces misery.
	Right? So here we have somebody who for 30 years has failed to forgive his child.
	For 30 years straight he has failed to forgive his child.
	And we have a child who is withholding forgiveness from someone who has failed to forgive him and punished him for 15 years for that failure to forgive.
	So it's not about the past.
	If you have a parent who justifies abuse in the present, that parent is still in a situation of failing to forgive
	you.
	He still has not forgiven you.
	For more information, visit www.FEMA.gov .
	Because if you bring it up, say, well, you beat me up when I was 12, and he's like, well, you were mouthy, or you disobeyed, or you weren't listening, or I was at my last straw, or, you know, I was going through divorce.
	Even if he justifies it, he still hasn't forgiven you.
	I was stressed, yeah.
	It's not excuse. An excuse also means, right, an excuse is a failure to forgive.
	Uh yeah James, your father blamed you for how he treated you.
	Yeah, for sure.
	See, if your father says, well, I was stressed, it's like, well, you should have been more helpful,
	you should have listened to me more, you should have been more considerate,
	because I was going through a lot of stress, but you were just mouthy and difficult.
	So, the person who's whispering in your ear that you'll be miserable if you fail to forgive your father,
	your father has failed to forgive you for 30 years and yet you're the one who's told that you're miserable if
	you fail to forgive.
	So, somebody says to you, you have to forgive your father.
	It's like, oh, so a lack of forgiveness is bad.
	Oh, yes, it produces torture.
	Then you should go and talk to my father because he still hasn't forgiven me.
	Have you ever met someone who was genuinely sorry for what they did to their children?
	I don't know, man. I mean, I can...
	I can tell you why people don't apologize.
	I mean, do you have people in your life who don't apologize?
	Hit me with a why if you have people in your life who don't apologize.
	I don't anymore, but I used to.
	You have people in your life who won't apologize?
	Right. Now, do you know why they won't apologize?
	Would it be helpful to you?
	I mean, I'm working my butt off for no tips here, basically.
	Just letting you know if you want a tip.
	I would appreciate that.
	I think I'm lifting a lot of logs off people's legs here.
	Would it be helpful for you to know...
	Well, I cannot admit fault. That's just right.
	Would it be helpful for you to know why people can't apologize?
	Why do they double down? It's not necessarily no empathy.
	Not just ego. We all have an ego.
	My father has approached me sobbing.
	He apologized and explained he was beaten every day for a year.
	Right. Now, did you end up focusing on your feelings or your father's feelings?
	A lot of people will break down in tears how sad they are, how terrible it was for them, and you ended up focusing on his feelings, right?
	Yeah, of course you did. They don't forgive themselves.
	They can't admit to their evil.
	They won't apologize because if they did, they would need to change their behavior.
	But there's lots of people who apologize and change their behavior.
	Committing the sin of pride.
	It's much more mathematical than that.
	It's much more absolutist than that.
	Thank you for the tip. Keep it coming, Steph.
	Great value and awesome shows of late.
	Thank you very much. They aren't sorry.
	No I want you to imagine a plane flying from A to B
	From A to B and they get lost They emerge from the clouds
	codes.
	you They get their bearings.
	Let's say there's no GPS. They get their bearings.
	They've just got a map, right? They get their bearings.
	And they know for absolute certain they can't make it back to where they left from.
	They don't have the fuel to make it back to City A, where they started.
	It's impossible. If they try and turn back, they will not make it.
	So what can they do?
	What's the only solution?
	Yeah, just try and get to B. It's all they can do.
	They've got to keep going. People don't apologize when restitution is impossible.
	When they cannot make up for what they've done, they will not apologize.
	Because it would be manipulative, it would be meaningless, it would be pointless.
	Right?
	They are confessing that the wrongs that they have done are beyond redemption.
	You cannot get them out of hell.
	They cannot be saved.
	They cannot return to you.
	Their soul is lost and sold and gone.
	They're owned and operated by malevolent forces that have taken them over beyond their control.
	They cannot come back to you.
	They can't find you.
	There's no way out of that.
	Now, do you want to know why people who tell you that the failure to forgive produces emotional
	hell, do you know why it's so compelling and believable?
	The people who tell you that a failure to forgive produces emotional hell are not telling
	you about your future.
	They're describing their own present.
	It's how they live.
	It's what's in their heart.
	It's the fires that endlessly consume them.
	Yeah, right. Projection. It's projection.
	If you've ever confronted someone, as this person talked about with this father I have, if you've ever confronted someone, then that person just breaks down into unholy tears or self-recrimination or self-hatred, and you're unsatisfied because it never ends up focusing on you, they're lifting the lid.
	This is the hell I live in.
	These are the fires I cannot put out.
	This is the flame at the base of my spine that burns me to ash every fucking day.
	Fail to forgive and you live in hell.
	Who says that? Abusers say that because they fail to forgive and they live in hell and they're telling it's you
	not themselves It's believable because they're describing their own
	experience is.
	you There's so many victims I've heard this from who end up being horrendous later on.
	It's a warning beacon, a lighthouse.
	How do we know they are beyond redemption?
	They're telling you because they refuse to apologize.
	This is why they get angry when they're confronted.
	Do you know why they get angry when they're confronted?
	I can tell you why my mother got angry when she was confronted,
	because I make this about me, because this is kind of insulting,
	and I don't want you guys to experience this yourself.
	Bye.
	Oh, this is going to hit hard, man.
	I'm telling you, this is going to hit hard.
	My mother got angry with me when I confronted her Because she was enraged at my stupidity and naivety
	She got angry and enraged at me because She was saying to me
	Why the fuck are you trying to bring me back to life?
	I've been dead and gone for decades.
	It's like digging up a corpse from the 19th century, bringing it to a hospital and saying,
	bring them back to life.
	What would the doctor say to you?
	Are you crazy?
	This is bone dust.
	It's far too late.
	The anger, you understand, is the remnants of their virtue trying to get you away from them.
	To drive you away!
	Get! It was too late for me before you were born.
	But it's not too late for you.
	Get the fuck away. Run.
	Stop being naive.
	Accept the death I have demonstrated for all your life.
	I can't make it any fucking clearer.
	Do I have to rub the dust of my eyes into the back of your throat for you to taste the
	death I have become?
	What is the matter with you?
	Why you are running around with a defib machine on a field full of ghosts dead for a thousand years?
	The fuck are you doing here?
	This is where the damned are.
	This is where the dead lie who cannot come back to life.
	This is the dance of the doomed.
	What are you doing here?
	Get the fuck out.
	If you stay, our death means less than nothing.
	If you don't get away, that's the final nail in my coffin.
	If you don't get away...
	You understand?
	My mother drove me into my marriage.
	She drove me into my marriage.
	She whipped me and scalded me and lashed me into my marriage.
	You follow? My father did not talk to me for years even though he was on his deathbed for months.
	Why? Stay where you are.
	This is a slippery slope into hell.
	Get away.
	Save yourself.
	Do you want to make it wider?
	ID platforming was the same thing.
	A salvation. Politics is becoming hell.
	Get away. Do this work, not that work.
	That is the graveyard.
	This is the future. That is death without life.
	That is life without death.
	Salvation building a system of distance between me and the flamethrowers
	should I not thank them?
	Thank you.
	.
	The person who said, sorry, you said something very important here.
	He said, my father was like that.
	When I told him I loved him on his deathbed, he said, you do?
	He hated himself. So why did he say, you do?
	Why did he say that?
	What was he trying to do?
	He was not manipulating you because he was about to die.
	Why did he say that?
	He thought I hated him.
	and I'll see you next time.
	Okay. Okay. Tell me a little bit about your father.
	What virtues did he manifest that you loved him for?
	Somebody says, thank you, my wife has abandoned politics and won't discuss it.
	I used to think that she did not want to hear my opinions, but there may be more.
	She did say that the world as a whole terrifies her.
	You said a few streams ago, there's nobody not helping you.
	And that resonates so well with this.
	A man who can't apologize is a man who died years ago, spiritually, emotionally.
	And he can't be more than clear, he can't be more clear than that.
	I mean, they can't parade their selfishness more than that, right?
	It would give you great comfort if I apologize.
	You are right to ask for an apology.
	I won't apologize to you because that would keep you here on false pretenses because the apology would be a lie.
	That would keep you Here, among the dead, on false pretenses.
	and I will not lie to you so you lie down with us, the dead, the damned.
	So shall we end up with...
	Shall we end up with...
	There was a question.
	Is there another word for letting go or limiting the burden so that it does not limit the victim going forward?
	Can forgiveness mean letting go of toxic anger as it can add to the damage already done to oneself?
	It doesn't mean to forget about nor to seek reparations or justice.
	Part of the definition of forgiveness is to cease to harbor resentment.
	That's the critical part of forgiving.
	Is that, would you like to know how to not be in hell for a failure to forgive?
	Forgive.
	...
	Yeah, right?
	Do you think that virtue can be utterly killed in the human soul?
	I don't, particularly.
	I don't. Because virtue is a form of consistency and universality, and because we can't survive as physical entities without accepting universality and consistency, there's always a part of us that stays aflame with morals.
	Close to, for sure.
	Sure, yeah, for sure.
	You gain peace with those who've wronged you when the remnants of their virtue drive you to a better
	place.
	. . .
	You gain peace with those who've wronged you when the remnants of their virtue drive you to a better place.
	When my mother saw my moral awakening she drove me away from herself.
	She made it absolutely unbearable to spend time with her.
	because if I could get out, there was a little love left that pushed me off the sinking ship,
	that screamed at me to get away from the everlasting fire.
	Her virtue against her will drove me out of the darkness and into the sunlight forever
	Amen.
	That even the most immoral or amoral cannot help but serve virtue
	if you just listen to them.
	She passed me to the angels as she fell into hell.
	.
	She kicked me skyward as she fell forever.
	She wrapped me in water as the flames fed on her.
	Thanks for watching!
	She threw me to my wife as she fell away.
	And my daughter, the two most beautiful females I know, came as a recall from the ugliest
	woman I ever experienced.
	And my father, by not talking to me, kept me out of the family to my everlasting benefit.
	And I'm proud of her.
	And the people who deplatformed me get me safe from the hellscape of politics.
	the scripture, but as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.
	The anger, the toxic anger is not your toxic anger.
	you At those beyond redemption.
	The toxic anger is their frustration that you don't run, that you don't get out, that you don't get away, that you hang around and keep coming back and keep circling back and keep circling the drain and keep falling down with them.
	And of course, part of them wants you to stay.
	Of course, part of them wants you to stay with them, but the moment that they see the light on your face and a crack in the opening and a way out, The angel wings fluttering in the cracks above the cave where the bright blue comes through.
	The moment they see that, they're like, GO! And they drive you away from them when you have a moral awakening.
	They make it unbearable to be with evil doers when you begin to become good.
	How do you think people resist such evil and become good?
	Thank you.
	Philosophy. And there's an instinctual philosophy that it's just the universality we need to survive, to live, to eat, to find our way around our house or our apartment or whatever.
	There's just a universality that's innate to being alive, which keeps the embers of virtue alight.
	You can't fight that.
	I mean, because if you fight that, you go insane and you try to walk on air and you die.
	Conformity to objectivity is our physical survival.
	I mean, animals do that too.
	Conformity to objectivity is our physical survival.
	Objectivity, consistency, and universality are the root of physical survival and moral virtue.
	So as long as we're alive, we hold virtue.
	It's there somewhere.
	Because if that's gone, we're gone.
	Physically. They resent you, I think. Sorry.
	Let me make it about me, because I don't want you to be cast in the shadow of this celestial being.
	It's thought... I mean, with my mother, I think it's like, okay, well, how bad do I have to be for you to get lost?
	Like, how bad do I have to be for you to get away?
	Like, what do I have to do? What do I have to do?
	I mean, I've made it as abundantly clear as I can that you need to get away, that you need to escape, that there's nothing for you here, that I'm beyond redemption than I was before you were born, probably.
	What do I have to do?
	Was your mother abused? Yeah, yeah Now worse than me, I'm sure
	You ...
	...
	by war and fire and soldiers.
	Goddamn Second World War.
	for.
	That's when Europe kind of died.
	Everything else has just been twitching.
	Or do you think of genetic trauma?
	It's not a thought, it's a very real thing.
	You cease to harbour resentment when you've learned the essential lessons.
	You cease to harbor resentment when you've learned the essential lessons.
	If my mother could have apologized, she would have apologized.
	She had no free will to apologize any more than I can go and become a ballet dancer at the age of 56.
	And this is when they say, well, I did the best I could with the knowledge I had.
	There's a bit of truth in that.
	I mean the fact that they avoided getting the knowledge is kind of important.
	If you were trapped in a burning building and you couldn't survive, would you want your
	children to come back for you?
	.
	No. No.
	If you put your kids...
	You're in the Titanic, right?
	You put your kids into a lifeboat.
	You're stuck on the ship. They're going to get sucked down with you if they don't.
	What are you telling them to do? Get away.
	Get away. That's closure.
	That's understanding, isn't it? To have honored the last lights of virtue in the hearts and minds of your abusers by getting to a better place.
	To use them as an example of what not to do rather than to bond with them and go down with them.
	Look, I don't really want to talk about my brother because it's not his fault I'm a public figure.
	Yeah, honor the last true wishes.
	Honor thy mother and thy father.
	absolutely, I honored the remaining light in my mother by escaping the tomb that she'd
	become. So you see those who say forgive, forgive, forgive without restitution, without
	recompense, without apologies, go back in the burning building.
	I'm not going to forgive you. I'm not going to forgive you.
	I'm not going to forgive you.
	.
	Go deep underground to the collapsing cave.
	You want your children to live better lives.
	Yeah, of course. It's the last fading angel pushing a desperate message through the red claws of the demon that holds them fast.
	It's a coded message, it's a secret message, in my view.
	It's the little light of their remaining love, trying to urge you to safety.
	Yeah, that's the truth. The truth shall set you free.
	It leaves a mark, a bit of a scorch mark in a burn rock, but it does that for sure.
	All right, how have I been doing tonight?
	You feel like showing the steph bot a little sugar?
	Thank you.
	You can tip on Rumble.
	You can tip here. You can tip later if you're listening to this at freedomain.com slash donate.
	Well, I'm in tears, so I think you nailed it.
	Beautiful, man. Thank you.
	Thank you, appreciate that.
	It's a great deal of sensitivity and I respect that.
	Keep up the good work.
	Thank you, thank you, thank you.
	And there is a great and beautiful world out there.
	Fantastic. This is why I subscribe to you and tip regularly.
	Thank you. I'm going to donate when I have some cash.
	Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
	Thank you, Matt. Looking forward to the Peaceful Parenting book.
	Appreciate that. So am I. So am I. It's going well.
	Listening to the future. Can't wait for the Peaceful Parenting book.
	Yeah, the future's a great book. freedomain.com slash books.
	All my books are sort of available there.
	All but one are free, so you should check that out.
	Out of the Argument's very good as well, outoftheargument.com.
	All right. Well, I will, I actually forgot to eat since like lunch, so I should probably go get something to eat, but thank you everyone so much for your very kind support.
	Tonight and I will, over the next couple of days, I've got a bunch of great shows to release and really appreciate everyone's kindness.
	Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
	Really, really do appreciate it.
	Thank you for hitting the deep water bath escape with me as we dig below the trenches to the core of the planet.
	Really appreciate it. I couldn't do it without you and you bring out the best in me as I hope I help bring out the best in you.
	Have yourself an absolutely fantastic Gorgeous evening.
	Lots of love. I'll talk to you soon.

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