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July 22, 2023 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:38:19

"I TRIED TO KILL TWO BOYS AND DROWN MY CAT" Freedomain Call In

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	So, my friend, how can I best help you today?
	Well, as I've told you, I used to be evil.
	I'll put it like this.
	Recently, I've been having trouble sleeping.
	And that's because I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
	And what I'm supposed to be doing is...
	Making YouTube videos about what's going on in the world.
	I'll lay in bed.
	In fact, last night I laid in bed.
	It was 4 o'clock in the morning.
	5 o'clock in the morning before I went to sleep.
	And I was just ranting to myself.
	Just a stream of content that I should be recording and making a YouTube video out of it, but I didn't.
	And because I'm not doing it.
	My body is not allowing me to sleep because I'm supposed to walk over here to my computer and edit a video together and post it, which I've done so before once, and I felt good about it, but my apathy, I would say, is the reason why I'm not doing it.
	Interesting. I suppose, of course, if you could tell me a little bit about the used-to-be-evil part.
	That sounds quite interesting.
	Yes. When I was a senior in high school, I committed two acts of attempted murder.
	I don't know if it would be helpful if I explained what led up to that point, or if I just explained what happened.
	Well, I would like to hear more about early childhood and all of that kind of stuff.
	I mean, I guess that's in the category of how it led up to what happened, but I guess what happened from the very beginning?
	Okay. So...
	I was born with...
	I was born to a very violent mother.
	And my father... I was born in an intact family.
	My father was in charge, but he was very indifferent with regards to what our mother did to us.
	One of my earliest memories was my mom striking one of my older brothers with a broom until it broke.
	And she did that because he brought home the wrong water.
	He was supposed to bring home water, but he brought home drinking water.
	And when I was three, she took a broom and struck him with it until it broke, screamed at him and told him to do what she tells him to do.
	And he left and brought back the correct water.
	Oh, so he basically had to limp out after being beaten half to death and go and get the right water.
	No, he didn't have to. Well, he wasn't limping because he was very sturdy.
	He played football and all that, so he could take a beating.
	Okay. So, the primary negative character trait that I derived from my mother was physical destruction.
	And with regards to my father, it's emotional detachment.
	And the source of my father's emotional detachment is his father.
	I've never met him. My dad just told me this about him.
	He told me that his dad lived with his mom.
	They were married. But he would go out and have sex with a bunch of women, stay at their house for the day, and then come back home.
	And he did it in such a way that it's not even an issue that I'm doing this.
	Like, you shouldn't even be bothered.
	And if you're bothered, I don't care.
	Now, my father targeted the behavior.
	So, because he saw that as wrong, he was very loyal to my mother.
	But he didn't target the trait.
	And the trait there, in my opinion, is emotional detachment.
	So, my dad did carry that with him.
	And as I said earlier, the way that it shows up is...
	In him is that he didn't care what mom did to us.
	Gosh. And he knew about this violence, right?
	Yes, yes, he knew.
	And from time to time he participated in it.
	But the funny thing about him is that anytime he would beat us, it was very much a traditional spanking.
	Not much emotion, only striking the buttocks.
	Yes, he would use an object, as my mother would, but My mother was just uncontrolled, unabriddled rage when she would beat us, and he was very much the opposite.
	So I know in his mind, he regarded that as being wrong.
	And even years later, after my mother passed away, if my mother was in the same position that he was, she would have been beating us for various reasons.
	But he never did.
	And he said that he thinks it's wrong.
	Wait, he was wrong not to beat as a whole, but it was wrong to beat out of anger or rage like your mother did.
	Yeah, well, I'll put it like, so he did beat us, but it was more controlled.
	You get what I'm saying? Yeah, so he's taking the biblical approach, right?
	If I understand this correctly, right?
	So that's, you know, explain what's happening, get the apology, don't do it in anger, that kind of stuff, right?
	Yes. Right, okay.
	And how, sorry, how often would his beatings versus her beatings occur?
	Well, he was a long-distance stroke driver, so he wasn't home a lot.
	But even when he was home, she was doing...
	90% of the meetings.
	And how often would those happen?
	Of course it varies from child to child because it in part is based upon what that child is doing or isn't doing and how much my mother likes them.
	But for me I'd say I was getting beat at least once a week until I was in the 10th grade.
	Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear that.
	That's just, that's beyond awful.
	That's just, that's terrifying to have the place that's supposed to be your security, your sanctity and your comfort being a place of violence.
	I'm so sorry. I just really, really, it's awful.
	I appreciate that.
	Well, the other aspect of it is that it erodes empathy and it gets to a point wherein, because although I'm African American, everyone Most people, people in my immediate family, they all have over 85 IQs.
	The children would indirectly use the parents as weapons.
	Like, we would indirectly use our parents as weapons on each other.
	Right. And we would psychologically get off on doing so.
	For example, I remember one time my sister, my cousin was over and she...
	I guess he wanted to play a game, and he took out this yellow crayon, and he said, okay, I'm going to draw the court on the carpet.
	And he said, you guys aren't going to tell me, are you?
	And I said no, and my sister said no as well.
	And as soon as he drew on the carpet, my sister ran off and told my mom that she beat him.
	And she was gleeful.
	Now, that's a little bit, and again, I'm sorry to hear that too, but is that a little bit more on the female side?
	You know, like, I can't beat you up, but I can get someone else to beat you up kind of thing?
	Well, yes. So...
	I'm kind of convinced my sister...
	I appear to have absorbed half the evil in the family, and I think my sister absorbed the other half.
	I'm not... She's not speaking terms with me right now.
	Well, how did her life play out?
	Well, her life...
	I mean, she did have kids young.
	She... Became pregnant?
	Well, I mean, I shouldn't say became pregnant.
	She was impregnated because she was having sex in the 11th grade and dropped out.
	But, you know, now she's a nurse and she has four or five kids out of wedlock.
	Oh, yeah. So like a bunch of different dudes kind of thing?
	Yeah. Yeah. And you say she works as a nurse?
	Yeah, she's a nurse.
	So who takes care of her kids?
	I'm not exactly sure because she's not on speaking terms with me.
	How long has it been since you last had contact with her?
	Well, I'm in a family group chat with her, so I see what she says.
	And we went to a family gathering because my grandmother passed away about Seven months ago.
	What she has been doing is that she's been spreading rumors about me.
	Some true, some untrue to the family.
	And some of them, as a consequence, now treat me differently.
	So when I look at her, I do get angry.
	Um, and well, Well.
	She is partially responsible for my mother's death.
	My gosh, what do you mean?
	Yes, so...
	After I graduated, and the reason I'm slowing down my speech is because, in my opinion, I haven't answered your question, but I'm sure we'll come back to it.
	So... As I said, my dad's a long-distance truck driver, and my sister had her child and dropped out.
	And my mother, she was a very, very traditional woman, very, very, excuse me, very Christian.
	And she was very, very upset that my sister had a child out of wedlock.
	And not just out of wedlock, the guy is in prison.
	Like, he's gone. Oh, gosh.
	So, that was a point of contention, and every day, and this is shortly after I graduated, every day, my sister and my mom would argue, would scream at each other for hours on end, hours on end, constantly.
	And my mother, she had a very good diet, and the reason I say this is because the official cause of death for my mother was is that an artery near her heart burst because of her high blood pressure causing her to slowly bleed to death but that cause of death in my opinion is not because of her diet because she ate very well and it's not because of her genetics because all of her siblings even at that time including her mother We're still alive and they didn't die from high blood pressure.
	None of them died from high blood pressure or from, you know, an artery bursting near their heart.
	My mother died because of the arguments she was constantly getting in with my sister.
	And I'm the only one of the family that knows that because my father, as I said, is a long-distance truck driver.
	So I was the only one observing this happening.
	So my sister is partially responsible.
	I understand that she's, well, she raised her.
	So that's why I'm saying partially.
	And an argument is a two-way street.
	And she is the mother, after all.
	What would they argue about?
	Stupid things. They would argue about how much food the baby was fed.
	Like, my mom would say, I fed him half a hot dog, and then my sister would say, no, you fed him a whole hot dog, and then they would just start screaming at each other.
	Wow. So it wasn't, the subject matter was nothing significant, but it's all...
	They have anger for each other beneath that, but they're not, instead of articulating why, they just let it out.
	And how often would they argue?
	It was every day. Every day?
	Yeah. Like an hour, more than an hour?
	There were breaks in between, so it wasn't like constant throughout the day, but it was, they would argue, then they would get along, they would argue, then they would get along, and they would argue, then they would get along.
	Right. And your mom, I guess she wasn't super old when she died, right?
	No, my mom was...
	51, I believe.
	Oh yeah, that's fairly young to go that way, I think.
	Yeah. Were the other fathers to your sister's kids, were they any better?
	I mean, in terms, I guess, better than the guy in prison.
	Um... So...
	Yes. They were better than the guy in prison, but that's an incredibly low bar.
	The second one, actually, honestly, the second one, he was in over his head and he just wanted to have sex.
	He... My sister...
	Okay, so this guy was warned by myself, because this happened after our mom died.
	This guy was warned by myself, one of my brothers, and my dad that our sister is very hard to deal with.
	And he didn't care.
	He just wanted to have sex.
	So she becomes pregnant, and then she starts being very cruel to him.
	She tells him, ha ha ha, I trapped you.
	So, one day, and this happened before the baby was born, he asked me to drive him back to his house.
	So I drove him back to his house.
	And then he left for Jamaica and never came back.
	Wow. Yeah.
	Well, I guess he chewed his way out of the trap.
	Yeah. Then the third guy, he lived with us for a while.
	Overall, he's a good dude, but he doesn't...
	He's not really concerned with financially providing for the children, but he's there.
	He's one of those good looking guys that doesn't bring much money to the table, but he's handsome and knows how to talk.
	And she had at least one child with him, maybe two.
	Wow, those poor kids, man.
	The oldest one, he has started acting out and He's in a juvenile detention center.
	What did he do?
	There were posts about it all over Facebook.
	He was running around threatening people, telling them that he's going to shoot them.
	He had a gun on them. My God.
	Yeah. So, that's...
	Excellent.
	That's just more... Expense and problems for society as a whole.
	Gosh. Yeah. Gosh.
	All right. So you had the beatings and I guess you were – did your mom fight with you in the same way that she fought with your sister?
	Was it mostly a female-female thing or did she mostly leave you alone when she wasn't beating you or how did the parenting go outside of that?
	So – No, we weren't having daily arguments.
	The daily arguments thing is something that really happened after everyone else moved out of the house.
	So it was just myself, my sister, and my dad and my mom.
	Because for a time, my three nieces and nephews were there, and some of our brothers periodically moved in and moved out.
	So for a long time, there were a lot of people in the house, but eventually a bunch of people moved out, and my mom was resentful towards my sister for having a child out of wedlock, and the father is nowhere to be found, so that kicked off.
	Well, everyone knows where one of the fathers can be found.
	Yeah, in prison, yeah.
	So that was a source of that.
	That wasn't something that was consistent throughout my childhood, no.
	Right. And then how did it, I mean, a lot of times this stuff kind of bubbles under the surface until, you know, people like you and I, we've been pretty roughed up by our moms.
	We hit puberty and suddenly it's like a whole different ballgame.
	How did that work for you? So now we're segwaying into what was my social life like.
	Now listen, it's your story, so I don't want to segway.
	I don't want to drag you away from a narrative.
	So if there's something else you want to talk about, I can totally bookmark that.
	No, this is good because it's associated with it.
	So I already told you that we have the detachment trait from my father, the violence trait from my mother, and of course those two wed themselves within me, which is a horrible combination if you think about it for five seconds.
	Tell me more about – I don't want to make a theory up if you've got a strong feeling about it.
	You said this is a horrible combo.
	What's the most horrible aspects about it for you?
	Because the second act of attempted murder, the emotional detachment aspect started manifesting itself physically, and it made the – it warped the violent aspect to be cold and calculating.
	Oh, okay, okay.
	So less explosive and more like villain in a Bond movie, like plotting kind of thing.
	Yeah, but it was all intuitive and rapid.
	You know, I'll say it.
	So I go – this kid, he stole my – it was 2010.
	This kid stole my iPod Touch.
	I was a senior in high school. I was about to graduate.
	And I always worked out, so I was pretty strong.
	I weighed 285 pounds, 5'10", 85 pounds of that was fat, so I was particularly strong.
	Wait, 85 pounds at the 285 was fat?
	Yes. Okay, I wanted to make sure, because you're working out, and I mean, how much of that is muscle?
	I ate a lot.
	I ate a lot. Right, okay.
	Okay, so I mean, you're a fairly beefy fella in your teens, is that right?
	Yeah. Well, me mentioning this, it's not going to...
	I should talk about my social life first.
	So... I got along well socially until in the first or second grade, I believe it was the second grade...
	Um, I came home and I told my mom that there was this kid on the bus and everyone was calling him weird and we called him alien and stuff like that.
	And then my mom beat me because, according to her, I called a child, I called someone else out of their name.
	And I really internalized that and I never, I never called someone else out of their name in school.
	Oh, so like no nicknames, no freak, weirdo, nerd, geek, like all of that kind of stuff.
	Like you just had to use their name, right?
	That was her thing. Well, I was not permitted to verbally disrespect anyone.
	Right, okay. Okay, got it.
	So, as I was going through puberty, of course, you know, as children go through puberty, they need to start wearing deodorant because they'll start stinking.
	I was allergic to almost every deodorant.
	Every deodorant that was tried, I would break out with cysts and boils underneath my arms.
	So I didn't wear deodorant.
	So I was a smelly kid.
	Oh, sorry. So it wasn't just antiperspirant.
	I mean, I don't use antiperspirant because I get rashes or whatever, right?
	But for you, it was not just antiperspirant, but even deodorant would give you the same issue or worse issues, I guess.
	Yeah, but eventually my father found...
	A brand that works.
	But that wasn't until the 12th grade.
	So, all this time, I'm getting picked on for being fat.
	I'm getting picked on for being smelly.
	And that's causing me to have submissive body language.
	And, you know, these children, they're sadomas.
	They're socially sadomasochistic, so because I'm exhibiting, because everyone's making fun of me and I have submissive body language, they're making fun of me more and more and more and more.
	Oh yeah, it's a total vicious circle, right?
	The more you get beat down, the more they attack you, therefore the more you get beat down.
	And what was the racial composition of the school?
	It was mixed. It was mostly white.
	It was like 80% white.
	10% black and then 10% everything else.
	But it was mostly white.
	Was it the white kids or the black kids?
	I'm just curious about the picking on you and so on.
	Was there any racial element to it or was it just you're so beaten down that everyone lines up?
	It was everyone. I'm sorry about that.
	I really am. Yeah.
	So, because if I attack them, I get beaten.
	I was trained not to call them any names, so I didn't say anything, so they kept doing it.
	Sorry, did your parents know about what was going on for you socially?
	No, I stopped talking to them about anything that was happening in school.
	Well, but they're supposed to ask a little, aren't they?
	I would tell them nothing.
	I would say, oh, I would say nothing.
	Well, because I learned not to say anything because, you know, when I did, when I was in first or second grade, she beat me for it.
	And of course, you know, I don't want to tell people that are beating me and or ignoring the fact that I'm being beaten and How I'm doing, you know?
	But did they – I'm sorry to interrupt, but I mean did they notice that you didn't have a whole bunch of friends over or go to many parties or I don't know, whatever goes on socially these days?
	Well, my parents were very isolationist.
	They didn't want us to go – we were allowed to go outside and play, but they didn't want us going over to other people's houses.
	They didn't want people coming over to our house, et cetera.
	Do you know why? They, how do I word this?
	They were very them against the world.
	And it was not even a white black thing.
	They were just very, you know, most people are evil.
	We don't want them around our kids.
	We don't really want our kids around them.
	We don't trust them, etc.
	Was that, did that come out of their religious faith to some degree?
	Like the world is run by Satan and most people are godless?
	Yes, very much so.
	Okay, got it. So this continues unabated.
	I'm so sorry to interrupt, but how were you doing in school as a whole?
	I mean, I assume everyone who listens to this show is like super smart, right?
	So that's how I deal with everyone who listens to this show.
	So, you know, there's no difference here.
	And so were you able to get by in school without much studying or did you just kind of tune out or did you work hard?
	How did that go? I tuned out.
	If I actually tried, I got A's and B's, but if I didn't, I would literally not even do my work.
	In the ninth grade, I had a 0.5 GPA because I flat out did not do my work.
	A 0.5 GPA. Sorry, don't make me laugh because you're a very smart guy, but I didn't even think that was possible.
	Don't you then just circle the drain and stay in the ninth grade forever?
	What does that mean? No.
	I graduated on time.
	But don't you have to pass?
	I mean, again, I'm an older guy, so I thought you kind of had...
	I mean, is it just social promotion these days?
	Like, you just get moved up no matter what?
	No, I wanted to play football.
	So I started actually trying after that, despite everything that was going on socially.
	So in the 10th, 11th, and 12th grade, I actually started trying.
	By the time the 12th grade started, I was...
	I had the credits that I needed and I had the GPA that I needed.
	So I got caught up.
	I caught myself up. No, I get that.
	I'm just a little blown here in my mind because one of the things when I was growing up is I put enough work in to get to the next grade.
	I didn't really care too much more than that.
	But how do you even get out of grade 9 with.5?
	I mean, did they not say you're going to stay here They hold you back until you get better, or they just push you up anyway?
	Not only is there summer school to get caught up with the credits that you need, I purposefully did my work in 10th, 11th.
	Well, 12th grade, I was already caught up, but I purposely did my work and got caught up in 10th and 11th grade.
	By 11th grade, I still was not...
	I wasn't caught up until the end of 11th grade.
	Right. Okay. All right.
	Okay. I appreciate that. So, obviously, you pulled your marks up and staggered forward.
	And how did that go for you socially?
	Did things get better? Did you end up playing football?
	I didn't end up playing football until the 12th grade.
	So... But I always worked out.
	So I always had a strong physique.
	But... So...
	And my aggression and my malice was buried, but my resentment kept growing.
	Keep in mind, every year, every year I was going to school and being made fun of and all this, my resentment kept growing constantly.
	And when – and my aggression was being – I'm sure you know about – Sorry, go ahead.
	Well, I'm sure you know about Jungian Shadows.
	Yes, I do. Yeah.
	So my Jungian shadow, it was becoming darker and denser because I was suppressing it.
	And I assume, sorry to interrupt, and I just wanted to double check because we haven't really talked about girls as yet.
	I assume that if you're known as kind of stinky guy, that there wasn't a whole lot of dating going on?
	No, there wasn't. Okay, got it.
	And so sorry, please go on with your Jungian thing.
	I just wanted to make sure I didn't forget that part.
	But yeah, your shadow was growing and the resentment was growing.
	Yeah, so I started playing football, but my aggression was still buried.
	I played the defensive line, so you have to be aggressive to play that position.
	So I wasn't very good, and I kept getting beat up at practice because the other aspect of it is there's a lot of technique associated with it.
	And then something happened.
	So I was in the locker room and two kids, they grabbed my phone and they were playing monkey in the middle with it.
	I would try to grab it and they would throw it to the other one.
	Oh, I got to tell you, brother, I hate that game.
	Yeah. That is like one of the most annoying things.
	Like, you know, when they grab your hat and they throw the hat in a circle and stuff like that.
	Like, yeah, that's going to drive just about anyone nuts.
	But go ahead. Yeah.
	So, and then one of them opened the phone and they saw that I had a picture of a girl on it.
	She wasn't naked or anything, but it was just a picture of a girl that I thought was cute.
	And then they started making fun of me for having a picture of a girl on my phone because I knew that I didn't have a girlfriend.
	I was a virgin and all this.
	But this was just some brand new girl.
	It wasn't someone in school, right?
	No, it was on her Facebook.
	Oh, okay. She wasn't in school anymore.
	She wasn't in school anymore. She already graduated.
	She graduated the previous year. So you got a taste for the older ladies.
	No, I'm just kidding. But okay, go ahead.
	Yeah. So at that point, my shadow activated.
	I stopped caring. Like at that point, I didn't care about the consequences of hurting someone.
	I didn't care about decency.
	I didn't care about being respectful.
	I didn't care what my parents thought.
	So we go up to the football field.
	Because that happened before practice.
	So we go up to the football field and I line up against another kid for a drill.
	Essentially this drill is over once another person falls to the ground.
	So when the drill starts, I pick him up and slam him to the ground and I had every intention to kill him.
	Wow. And I kept beating him with my helmet.
	Now, was this one of the kids who'd taken your phone?
	No. Because those two kids, well, one of those kids, he was a part of the camera crew, and the other kid, he didn't play anymore, but he still hung around.
	So no, they weren't technically a part of the team.
	Was the kid that you were beating on, was he somebody who had been cruel or hostile towards you in the past?
	Or just, you know, wrong place, wrong time?
	He made fun of me a little bit, but it didn't matter who it was.
	And when, just help me understand this moment, right?
	You said the switch flipped or...
	Did you sort of form a caution or hesitancy?
	Did it just completely vanish?
	Or was it like a new personality?
	Or, you know, I guess the religious side would say the demon came in through your nostrils or something.
	Like, what was that moment?
	What happened there? I just stopped restraining myself.
	Oh, so this was a beast you knew, but you were holding him back and you're just like, to hell with it.
	I'm letting go of the reins. Is it like that?
	Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
	Yeah, it wasn't anything new.
	There were things that I knew that were there that I just buried.
	That's not how you want to deal with them, but what do you want from an 18-year-old kid?
	So, I continue striking him with my helmet well after the drill was over, and then it sounded like everything was underwater.
	What do you mean by that? I couldn't hear anything else.
	Even though my coach was yelling at me to get off of him, you know, I didn't.
	And what's your goal?
	I mean, you said your goal was to kill him.
	Yes. Right.
	Then my coach grabs me and throws me off of him.
	And... What, in retrospect, I found most foul...
	And this... I get that it's football, but this also segues into what happens afterwards.
	Well, it's a drill, though.
	I mean, it's not even a game, right?
	Yeah. They admired me for it.
	Sorry, who's your teammates?
	My teammates, the coaches, they admired me for it.
	The baseball team was in one of the buses because they were, if I remember correctly, they were going somewhere and they...
	They saw it and they cheered and shit.
	But I mean, there's no...
	I mean, I get that a hard tackle can be good in football.
	I mean, I've not played much football, but I played quite a bit of rugby when I was younger.
	Like, a hard tackle can be good, but there's no...
	I'm no expert. There's no football move called beat the guy with the helmet, though, right?
	No, but that's what it is.
	Like, the social hierarchy is in part based upon the ability to...
	Oh, so you're showing your capability for violence and they're saying that's good for the game as a whole.
	Well, it gets worse than that.
	You'll see when the second act of attempted murder happens.
	So this is your first act of attempted murder.
	And how was the kid after it?
	He got up and started crying and treated me different ever since then.
	But he didn't need hospitalization or anything?
	Or how did that go? No.
	Football helmets are very sturdy, Stefan.
	Very sturdy.
	Okay.
	So And there was something that
	Because everyone knew that I was like holding back.
	Not in what I did to him, but in the drills.
	It was like I didn't want to hurt anyone.
	So what my mom taught me was still...
	That restraint was still showing up in football.
	Right, and that's why you said you weren't that good at defense because you had hesitation about hurting people, right?
	Yeah. But, you know, that was near the end of the season anyway, so it was really too late.
	But since that day, I was doing very well with the drills.
	But, you know, it was too late either which way.
	So... The season ends.
	The season ends, and things go back to normal.
	And this is 12th grade, so I don't stink anymore.
	Because my dad got me the deodorant that works for him, so I suppose that was passed on genetically.
	Then one day, we were dressing out for PE, and I had an iPod Touch.
	And a phone. I put the iPod Touch in the phone.
	I don't know why I did it. I knew it was a bad idea, but I did it anyway.
	I put the iPod Touch and the phone in a...
	in my gym bag.
	And the person standing next to me saw me do this.
	And I knew that he was known for stealing, but I did it anyway.
	Could have been my unconscious looking for trouble, to be honest with you.
	So, you know...
	We have PE class.
	I come back to put back on my regular clothing, my iPod Touch, and my phone is gone.
	And this happened on Thursday.
	And that was the last class of that day.
	So then the next day comes up, which is Friday, and I do detective work all throughout that day to determine who stole my phone.
	And I figured it out.
	How did you – that's almost the annoying thing about theft is it's hard to figure out who did it.
	How did you figure it out? I heard that the kid that was standing next to me is selling an iPod Touch.
	Oh, okay. Got it.
	Yeah. Got it. I just kept asking around.
	So Monday I go to school.
	I don't bring my backpack. I even tell my parents I'm going to go to school on Monday and I'm going to get in a fight.
	I don't bring anything with me.
	And I'm standing, we're standing in the breakfast line, and I tell my friend that I see him.
	And my friend, you know, he was actually a good, legitimate friend.
	He said, hey, don't do it, don't do it.
	So, I completely...
	Yeah, just if you're going to remind you to stay off names, but yeah, go ahead.
	Well, no, my name is...
	Yes, I know, but yeah, even still.
	Oh, okay, okay. So...
	My shadow's completely active at this point.
	I start making...
	Rapid...
	I rapidly start making decisions.
	The first decision I made is, you know, I could either get in his face and tell him to give it back to me, or I could strike him.
	I chose to strike him initially to cause his fight-or-flight response to activate.
	And because there's, like, well over 100 kids, well over 100 people in the library...
	He's going to fight me, even though I outweigh him by over 100 pounds.
	Oh, because he's not going to want to lose face after you hit him, right?
	Yes. And I don't want to immediately knock him out, so I don't hit him as hard as I could have.
	I just wanted to stun him and then have his fight-or-flight response activate.
	And I also notice that he's holding a pencil.
	He has a pencil in his hand.
	It looks like he was doing some homework or something.
	So I go up to him.
	I strike him with the right straight, and then I grab the back of his head to slam.
	My intention was to have the pencil slam up into his eyeball through his brain to kill him.
	Fortunately, that did not happen.
	Then I grab him and pick him up and have him stand up and allow him To get into his stance to fight me.
	Okay, sorry. Just back up for a sec here.
	So the idea that you wanted the pencil to go through his eye into his brain and kill him, I mean, you knew that if that had happened, obviously, I mean, you would have probably gone to jail for the rest of your life, right? I mean, where's the consequences in that moment?
	I didn't care.
	And that's me not caring despite being case-elected.
	Which gears me towards long term problem solving instead of short term problem solving, which is why the children of these single mothers, they are centered around short term problem solving.
	But despite me being geared towards long term problem solving, I did not care.
	But why didn't you care?
	I mean, you worked hard to get your grades up and all of that because you wanted to have more of a future than the 0.5 GPA. That's part of what I want to understand is why do you think – I mean, you were going to throw your life away and kill someone.
	Why do you think the future was just unimportant at that moment?
	I'm not exactly sure why at that time I thought that the future was unimportant.
	I didn't even allow myself to think about it.
	So was part of you saying, don't do it, and you ignored that part?
	Or was there any part of you that was like, an iPod is not worth 30 years in prison or a death penalty or something?
	No. No part of me said, don't do it.
	I was done listening to that part of me.
	And part of that, I suppose, is because of the admiration I got the first time it happened.
	Oh, right. Yeah, your positive feedback, right?
	Yes. Right. So, I break his nose and knock two of his teeth out.
	Oh, this is just a regular punch-up, right?
	Well, yeah, because, I mean, the pencil doesn't go through his...
	No, no, sorry, but you said that he'd gotten into his stance and you gave him a chance to adjust, so then you just had a regular punching match, right?
	Right. Yes.
	I'm sorry. I know the phrase is not punching match.
	I don't know what it is, but it's something.
	And had you had experience, like the fact that you're sort of punching and hitting, did you have experience with that before?
	Or how did you know how to fight in that kind of way?
	Well, in elementary school, I was a very violent kid, but I don't remember much of it.
	And I got in a lot of fights.
	Oh, well, hang on.
	So there was, because you were saying, like, I'm holding back the beast, I'm restraining, and, you know, I'm not good at playing defense in football because I'm not aggressive.
	So there was a phase earlier, like, what, around puberty or something like that, where you got into a lot of fights?
	No, that was before puberty.
	That was kindergarten, first and second.
	Oh, sorry, sorry.
	Okay, got it, got it. So you had some experience in, like, the punching or the dodging stuff, right?
	Yeah. Okay, got it, got it.
	So this guy, he's in his stance.
	How does the fight go? What happens?
	I allow him to hit me, and I don't feel anything.
	Then I hit him with two right hooks, and then I throw him across the room.
	And I threw him in such a fashion that I also fell forward.
	How much smaller than you was he that you could pick?
	I mean, I assume he couldn't pick you up and throw you, right?
	He weighed 170, and as I said, I weighed 285.
	And you have a certain amount of adrenaline, as you say, the sort of cold.
	But they used to call it like a red mist.
	Like, basically, a red mist descends in front of your vision, and you don't really know what's going on much until the red mist lifts or something like that.
	I mean, you were in deep fight or flight, I guess, at this point, right?
	Well, the fight side. Yeah, that's correct.
	Okay, so you throw him, and he's against the wall.
	What happens then? Well, no, he wasn't against the wall.
	He fell. But he was very nimble, so he got up quicker than I did, and then he got on top of me.
	And then he started striking me, and I didn't feel that either.
	Then I thought to strike him twice and throw him...
	Because he's over top of my left shoulder.
	I thought to strike him twice and throw him over my right.
	But instead, and according to Carl Jung, your shadow can be so dense...
	That it guides your movement.
	I struck him twice and then threw him over my head to the other side of the room and then I got up to get on top of him but then one of my friends and I couldn't see anything but him but one of my friends grabbed me and held me to the ground and then another group grabbed him and put him to the other side of the cafeteria and then that's when the principal grabbed me and had me go to his office.
	And how much time had elapsed between you hitting the other kid with the football helmet and then this fight?
	How much time was between these two?
	That happened near the end of the season, which had to have been January, I want to say.
	And then this happened in mid-February.
	Okay, got it. And this was a Monday.
	So I get sent to the dean's office.
	They're like, who are you?
	You never get in trouble. What's going on?
	What happened? I explained to them what happened.
	I explained to them what I did.
	Because they expected someone that does that.
	To be a problem child in the sense that they constantly get in trouble in school, but I never got in trouble in high school.
	So I get suspended for three days.
	So I'm suspended all of Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and I get to come back to school on Thursday.
	So when I go home...
	I shouldn't be laughing, but the fact that my dad drove me home without saying a word, I do find that comical.
	So I go home.
	My dad picks me up.
	I go home. I have blood all over my jacket.
	And then that night, I get on MySpace.
	MySpace was popular at that time.
	And I'm getting friend requests from girls at the school.
	My friends are saying, you're the talk around the school.
	So my social status shoots all the way up.
	And then, so Thursday I get back to school and people are greeting me and cheering for me and part of me was happy but, and this is something that shows up later, the other aspect of me was disgusted.
	Like I'm in hell, right?
	Was the kid you beat up, or you had to fight with, really unpopular?
	Is that one of the reasons why people were praising you?
	No, he was popular, which may be even more popular, because beating up an unpopular kid isn't going to...
	It's if you make yourself an opponent to a pop to someone popular in
	the dominance hierarchy and beat them then you you drive more of a
	benefit in doing so. No I get that I'm just I'm just I guess I was wondering if he
	was a thief or whatever like if he'd just been a thief and a bully
	and people just didn't like him and they were sort of cheering you beating up the bad guy, so to speak.
	Yeah, he was known as a thief, so that was part of it.
	They did appreciate the fact that someone finally dealt with him.
	Right.
	Um, I was bewildered by all of this.
	Well, what was your expectation when you went back to school?
	What did you think was going to happen?
	I didn't have any expectation.
	But you weren't expecting this, right?
	No, I definitely was not expecting that.
	To be near the top of the dominance hierarchy and to have all these girls, the attention of all these girls, And I kind of grew to hate them for that because they only liked me when I lost my mind.
	Well, and when you were dangerous, right?
	And you could have killed a guy over an iPod touch, right?
	And a phone, right?
	Yeah, I mean, I read this out in the show the other day, and I'm not putting you in this category because, I mean, there's a lot of complicated stuff here.
	But, yeah, bullies have more sex.
	Bullies have more children and get more girls.
	They certainly do. And then women complain that there's violence in the world.
	It's like, well, maybe if you all stop choosing bullies.
	Anyway. In fact, after I graduated, I had a girl that I went to school with approach me and tell me, Hey, if you beat someone again, I'll have sex with you.
	Wow. Of course, she didn't use those literal words.
	She used different words. She used ebonics, but that was the meaning of what she said.
	Wow. Very good-looking girl, too.
	Right. Yeah, acting out her rage against the world through you, I guess.
	Yeah. All right, so what happens next?
	So what happens next?
	I don't end up sleeping with any of these girls because...
	Or even choosing one of them to become a girlfriend because...
	I believed I would have beaten them.
	That's part of it. I do genuinely believe I would have beaten them.
	Well, then they might have been choosing you for that, for whatever weird reason they might have.
	Yeah. And I knew that something...
	I knew that I didn't understand this, and I knew that I needed to.
	That's the case selection coming into play, and I'm very thankful for that.
	Well, here's now consequences, right?
	You're like, okay, well, if I sleep with one of these girls, blah, blah, blah, right?
	So without that sort of red mist of rage, you're getting consequences, and really, I mean, to be able to restrain your sexual impulse for the sake of that is pretty admirable.
	Yeah. Thank you.
	So I graduated. Because this takes away to you eventually.
	I start looking at content that is considered taboo.
	Of course, at the time, Jordan Peterson wasn't around.
	I think you were in... This was 2010.
	Mid to late 2010.
	I graduated in May of 2010.
	So I don't think you're around that much on YouTube.
	Yeah, it was pretty early days, I guess.
	Yeah. So I started watching a lot of MGTOW content.
	I started watching Man, Woman, Myth.
	Yeah, I remember that guy.
	I think he's gone. He's been gone for a while now, but he had some good videos back in the day.
	Yeah, if someone wants to watch his content, just go to the internet archives and And look up Man, Woman, Myth, the whole documentary is there if anyone is interested.
	So, based upon the content that I was looking on that completely flipped the world upside down, for me, it caused this extreme pathological withdrawal.
	And I don't want to say...
	Hatred. More so resentment.
	Yeah, resentment.
	Sorry, I know you're just about to explain, but I want to make sure resentment towards what or against what?
	Resentment, I would say mostly towards women, but also towards men.
	And then the next year, that's when my mother passes away.
	She passes away on October 15, 2011.
	So, after my mom passes away, it becomes my sister and I that constantly bicker and argue, and she's very, very manipulative.
	Like one time, because my father, he got us each a vehicle.
	She believed that she was entitled to the parking space closest to the entrance doorway.
	And I believe it didn't matter.
	Whoever got there first, that's where they're parked at.
	So, instead of trying to reason with me or negotiate or call my dad and see what he thinks about it, she purposely parks her vehicle about an inch behind mine despite there being a parking space to the right of my vehicle.
	And she knew that I worked because at this time I worked overnight at a gas station.
	And I had to go to work.
	So I got in my vehicle.
	I gently bumped her vehicle.
	I didn't have... I had almost no choice but to do that.
	And then I drove to work and then she called me screaming.
	And then my dad called me screaming and sided with her and allowed her to have the parking space because my dad psychologically, he's...
	Some people call him a white knight.
	He sides with He sides with women.
	So he enabled my sister's manipulation after my mom died, which leads up to Hurricane Irma.
	And I know I'm skipping several years ahead, but it's just several years of the same thing happening.
	It is your story, my friend.
	I have no complaints about how you're telling it.
	Okay. So it's 2017.
	Hurricane Irma hits.
	I'm the only one staying at home.
	My sister and her children, she takes them somewhere else.
	And her and I are splitting the rent.
	We're splitting the bills, etc. And my dad's paying some, but he moved in with his girlfriend.
	And my sister comes back after the storm passed, and she tells me that The house is being condemned.
	There's no evidence for it being condemned, but she tells me that the house is being condemned.
	And I'm like, okay, so it looks like I have to get out of here.
	So I go to my dad's girlfriend's house, because he's a long-distance truck driver, so he wasn't there when I did this, because I decided I'll just sleep in my Jeep until I find some place to live.
	And I had to get the spare tire out of the back of the Jeep.
	So I go to her house and I tell her, hey, I'm going to be living in my Jeep because the house is getting condemned so I can't live there anymore.
	I'm going to put the spare tire in the garage.
	And then she starts telling me the truth.
	My sister, and I paid her this rent money the month before, because she asked for it early.
	She does that sometimes. My sister pocketed the rent money.
	Lied about the house being condemned.
	The reason that we have to get out of the house is because we're being evicted because she pocketed the rent money.
	And she hid the eviction letter.
	But my dad's girlfriend showed me the eviction letter.
	And that can be a couple of month plus process.
	So she'd been like just pocketing the rent the whole time?
	No. I believe as long as they give you like a three-day notice, they can proceed with the eviction process.
	Okay. Oops, I just gave you geographic details.
	Sorry. That's all right. I'll take it out.
	So I confront my sister about this because At this point, the apathy is really getting to me, so I don't even scream at her like I'm just done with that.
	And then she gives me back the rent money, and then my father's girlfriend shows up, and those two almost start fighting because my sister is upset that she told me the truth.
	And this was my three, four, four, six...
	This was my 26th birthday.
	It was September 23rd of 2017.
	Hey, we have one day of partner birthdays.
	Isn't that funny? Anyway, go on.
	Maybe the 24th? Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah. So this was the first day that I was homeless.
	I worked throughout it because, you know, I had a job beforehand and I kept that same job.
	But I remember you.
	I remember you.
	I believe it was Thanksgiving of 2014.
	I watched your video about the World War I. The truth about World War I, right?
	Yeah, when they decided to stop killing each other because of the spirit of Christmas and the spirit of Christmas is love.
	So I thought back to that.
	I was like, you know, there's something to this Stefan guy.
	I should watch him more.
	So in combination with you, basically what I did was I lived at the library, essentially.
	And when the library would close, I would go out to this little park bench and sit in front of the river and I would listen to you.
	And I would...
	There was also this work of fiction that I was reading, and this work of fiction that I was reading was significant because the characters have psychological transformations.
	So... On the one hand, I have you...
	pulling me out of the darkness, and then on the other hand, I have literary examples...
	Of characters changing and evolving and becoming better versions of themselves.
	Yeah, like real transformations.
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
	And in my opinion, I did years of therapy on that park bench in months.
	In my opinion, I did.
	Right. Right. Well, I've certainly been down with that living in the library phase.
	Half of my teenage years, so I'm with you there.
	Yeah. How long were you homeless for?
	I was homeless from September 23rd, 2017 until November 17th, 2017.
	And what happened there?
	Where did you land? I got a place living by myself.
	And that's how I prefer it.
	A little apartment. Right.
	And I assume at this point, like, still no particular dating, or you're saying you're spending a lot of time alone, so not much of a social life, is that right?
	Well, I have a lot of friends online.
	The way that that evolved is that I stopped caring if people liked me or not.
	Yes, that is the superpower these days, right?
	Yeah. Now I'm very well liked by people, and At my previous show, I met three guys that were really good friends and I asked them, why do you like me?
	And they told me why.
	You know when you're growing up and you're talking to someone and you feel in good esteem because they're talking to you.
	I don't feel that anymore.
	That's gone. Did you have any problem with, I don't know, could we call it rage or the red mist or the aggression that you felt a couple of times when you were in your teens?
	Did you have any more problems with that or was that receded or under control?
	Mostly. One time I did go to work to fight my one of my supervisors and I didn't get in trouble for it because that's
	how wrong he was.
	Two years ago, I kind of don't want to say this, but I'm going to say it because I'm here for you to help me.
	So I should say it.
	Two years ago, I had a cat.
	And he's a good cat.
	I would go out for walks and he would follow me.
	I would go outside and walk my cat and he would follow me around.
	A neighbor had moved in with a Dachshund Pitbull mix and it was a very low to the ground dog as a consequence but very muscular and intimidating if something is as small as a cat because the dog's face is like right up on you.
	I can see why a cat would be Very afraid of that.
	So I'm laying down sleeping and the cat urinates on me on purpose.
	How do you know? I mean, I've never owned a cat.
	How do you know on purpose? Because he purposely moved his body.
	Like, I was awake as he was moving around and he purposely moved his body next to mine.
	He could have urinated in the litter box, but he chose not to.
	So he did urinate on me on purpose.
	So... I decide to kill the cat.
	I grab the cat.
	Sorry, how long had you owned the cat for?
	I had the cat for eight months.
	Sorry, just before you get to what happened with the cat, why did you get the cat?
	Was it a stray? Did you go out and buy it?
	Or what was your purpose in having the cat?
	The cat was a rescue because the cat...
	I had a friend that had a friend that wasn't going to be able to keep the cat.
	And if she didn't find someone to get the cat, then the cat was probably going to be put down.
	Because the cat is an adult.
	The cat wasn't very pretty because he had a lot of scars on him.
	And he was a black cat.
	So if you combine all that together, this cat is probably going to be – if this cat goes to a pound, they're probably going to put him down because no one's going to want him.
	And how old is the cat?
	I think five? Okay, yeah.
	So not super young, not super old.
	Okay, yeah. And so you felt like, okay, if I don't take the cat, the cat's going to get put down, right?
	Yeah. And overall, you said it was a good cat and came with you when you walked.
	And so overall, you enjoyed being a cat owner?
	Yeah. And had the cat done anything to...
	Annoy or bother you.
	For the most part, you said it was a good cat.
	Was it just this one time of peeing on you, as you say, deliberately, or were there other times where the cat had been difficult?
	No, there was no other times, no.
	Okay, so what happened then?
	Oh, I will say this first.
	Well, you probably noticed this because you're really smart.
	Part of my mom's predation was on a bride, like, Incredible rage for the smallest infraction.
	Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I got it. I got it. Right.
	So I grab the cat and I grab a belt and I start beating the cat.
	The cat starts running around the apartment and I start beating him with the belt.
	And then I fill the sink up with water.
	To drown the cat.
	And I put him in there and I proceed to drown him.
	But I stop.
	I stop myself.
	Because I saw that it was wrong.
	And this is your first time, I think, stopping the beast, so to speak, right?
	Yeah. Right.
	What was that moment?
	What happened? You go so long forgetting your demons and you think that they're not there.
	And this cat reminded me that it was there.
	And I appreciate him for that.
	Right. Yeah.
	The same thing happens the second day.
	I am very angry. I am very angry.
	Because he did do that on purpose.
	But... Well, but he's a cat.
	So, you know, I get that.
	But it's not like he's calling an airstrike on you.
	Yeah, yeah. Then it happens again the second day.
	Wait, what happens again the second day?
	He does the same thing again the second day.
	Oh, he's again. Well, you beat him, right?
	So he's mad at you now, right? Yeah, and then...
	And then I do the same thing again, a second night in a row, and then once again I stop myself, and I realize that there is something seriously wrong here.
	I never did that to him again.
	I didn't do that again.
	Jeez, I was waiting for the Pitbull hybrid to show up or something, so is that coming in the story, or is that a flyby?
	No, they moved away.
	They moved away a few months later.
	Okay. But I'm just saying that that's why he was doing that, because he was kind of an outside cat.
	He did like going outside.
	Oh, but you couldn't let him out because of the other dog?
	Well, he didn't want to go out there.
	The pit bull wouldn't have done anything to him, because he didn't do anything to any of the other cats in the neighborhood.
	Well, pit bulls can be a little rando.
	Yeah. I get what you're saying, but what literally happened is that Pitbull didn't do anything to the cats.
	But he was so afraid that he didn't want to go outside unless I went outside, but because I didn't feel like going for a walk, he didn't want...
	He was stuck inside and blamed you, right?
	Yeah. So that was two years ago.
	Sorry, I don't know if you're moving forward, but in the second day that you beat and tried to drown the cat or decided to and then stopped, you had the thought like there's something seriously wrong here and that's a moment that I think is worth spending a bit more time on.
	Yeah, I started self-reflecting more.
	Well, even more than I was doing before.
	And then I started thinking, you know, what am I going to do with my life?
	Because at one of my previous jobs, there was this old guy that worked for the government and he knew how to read people's handwriting.
	Because we leave behind psychological data when we do things honestly.
	Like with handwriting.
	And he read my handwriting and he said...
	You have no plans.
	You have no long-term plans at all.
	And I remember that.
	So... I thought to myself, what am I going to do with my life?
	And then... I mean, one of the things that trauma does is it shortens your time horizon.
	That's the R-selected pressure, right?
	Yeah. But sorry, I interrupted, please.
	Go ahead. I started thinking about All the different traits that I have and everything that happened in my life and what's going on in the world and I remember that I believe that the most vile thing is humans killing humans under government order and the reason that I believe that is because Periodically, my mom, when everyone else would leave the house, and it was just my mom and myself, didn't matter how old I was.
	Three, four, five, six, seven, eight, didn't matter.
	Meaning she would do this regardless of my age.
	She would turn on old war documentaries.
	Old war documentaries.
	She would turn on documentaries of the Holocaust.
	She would turn on documentaries of what happened in the Soviet Union.
	I would just watch humanity get ran over for nothing.
	Look, I'm sure you know that that's wildly irresponsible and immoral to expose children to those kinds of horrors.
	Yes, but I acknowledge that I don't have the ability to see that.
	I wouldn't do it to my children though, but I acknowledge that I don't have the ability
	to see this, this thing that she did to me as abusive because I appreciate it so much.
	Um, so.
	What do you appreciate about it?
	you That I'm aware of this and I'm concerned with it and I have the tools.
	I just so happen to have the tools to battle it.
	So if you wanted to ask psychologically why do I feel as if I need to do something about this, it's because my mom is crying.
	Because she would watch that.
	I wouldn't cry. But she was crying when she watched it.
	She had us watch it anyway.
	But your mom was very pro-violence.
	Yes. Yes, people can be hypocritical.
	They can be hypocritical.
	They can see the violence in the world, but not...
	Question the violence in their own heart.
	Yes, that is true. But I don't think I'm being very clear here because I did mention that I did make a YouTube video and I am inspired by people like you that are talking about the various things that are happening in the world.
	And there are many others that I listen to, but...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Of course, I'm not saying that people should be blind to the horrors of the world.
	It's just that there's no conceivable way that a three or four or five or ten-year-old kid...
	Can process these things, understand them, or put them in context.
	And the great danger of exposing children to this kind of negative content too early, especially when their home life is horrible too, right?
	The great danger of this is nihilism and hatred of the species, contempt for mankind as a whole.
	And that's infectious when you don't have a balancing perspective, right?
	Yes, and she, parents, she didn't know that because she didn't know how I was going to...
	You don't know how someone, especially a child, is going to respond.
	No, no. Come on, man.
	You don't show kids the holocaust.
	No, that's what I'm – I'm agreeing with you, but that's what I'm saying.
	I'm saying she didn't know that I was going to have a relatively positive response to that.
	That's why it shouldn't be done in the first place.
	That's what I'm saying. You get what I'm saying?
	Yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I don't know that it's possible for a child to have a positive response because your home life is horrible, your sister is horrible, your mother is a screaming child beater, your father punishes you physically also with implements, and you're being shown gulags and the Holocaust, and like, I mean, that's just, my God, I mean, that's a heavy load of bricks to put on some pretty young shoulders.
	I see it is possible that that amplified my violence.
	Okay, let me ask you this, because I did want to ask you this earlier, but I mean, okay, so where was the, I mean, when you were a kid, right?
	Was there someone who genuinely loved you?
	Were there breaks in the gray clouds of the violence and dysfunction that you were enmeshed in?
	Was there joy?
	Were there rainbows?
	It's like, was there anything that you were going through as a kid that you look back
	on with sort of very great fondness and positivity and so on?
	The only time I could say that I felt genuine love was when was this friend that I knew.
	Um... I met her online.
	I was already an adult.
	I met her online. No, no, no.
	Okay. As a kid.
	As a kid. Because we're talking about like Holocaust and gulags at four and beatings and alienation and being bullied at school and the stinky kid.
	So when you were a kid, when you look back, are there breaks in the clouds, sunbeams, anything where you remember that was a great moment or that was a beautiful day or...
	I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be.
	be. I'm just curious whether if there was any balance in this relentless
	parade of negativity.
	I could mention good moments with my parents but that doesn't really
	apply because that's underlined with this looming threat of are they gonna
	hit me or I really resent you for what you did on X day etc.
	Yeah, and you can't really be yourself around people who are that violent towards you.
	Yes. One of my nephews, he and I got along great.
	I'd say that's about it.
	From my recollection right now.
	Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that's what I'm curious about.
	Was there anything in nature that was beautiful or anything that inspired you that you were reading that any language or poetry or maybe movies or anything that you had that, you know, the glowing God finger of happiness touching your heart?
	I really love science, but because I started getting bad grades in school, that went away.
	Um... And again, I'm not saying you should have these things.
	I mean, it's not like it's a failure if you don't.
	I'm really curious about where the, in a sense, the hatred of the world, the nihilism, and some of that stuff, or hatred of humanity, I guess, it seems somewhat of a theme.
	Like your parents and your mom in particular piling all these bricks on the negative side of the equation.
	And those bricks are there. I think you were exposed to them way too early.
	But the problem is, of course, you know, was she also showing you, you know, here's some beautiful nature documentaries and here's how glorious the world is in so many ways.
	And, you know, was there anything to balance her?
	I look at all of these waves and bricks and spines and blood bags of blood all going on the negative side.
	and I'm just trying to think if there was or trying to know if there was
	anything on the positive side.
	Going to church was nice.
	you That was always a positive experience going to church.
	you It did. And did you experience that at a personal level or was it something you were observing kind of outside in?
	I'd say it was both, because we primarily did it when I was a child.
	So, I was experiencing it on the one hand as a child, but I was also experiencing it when they would separate the children from the adults, and I would look at the adults and see how they carried out their duties in the church.
	And did you experience love at all?
	Being loved. My one member from the church, yes.
	I did feel love from her.
	She was an adult and I was a child, though.
	Well, that's what you're asking about in the first place.
	Now that I think of it, I did feel love from my grandmother.
	But see, the interesting thing about that is that she's She's at least part of the reason to why my mother acted in that fashion.
	But because you're visiting your grandmother, the negative psychological traits don't really trigger like they do if you have an abusive parent.
	Even if your grandmother in her heart is abusive, it's all sunshine and rainbows when you're around her.
	But she also didn't do anything to protect you from the violence you were experiencing at home.
	Yeah, because she thought it was...
	That's how it should be, is what she believed.
	She never said it, but it's heavily implied and implicated by the fact that she did that to my mom.
	She was going to beat my sister when she realized she was pregnant.
	That's a whole other story.
	Some pretty bad timing for discipline there.
	Yeah. When my sister came back pregnant, almost every adult in the family, my grandmother didn't do it though, but almost every adult in the family beat her.
	They beat a pregnant girl?
	Nobody knew that she was pregnant but me because, well, see, you may be skeptical against this, but I'm her only brother.
	I'm her I'm her only full-blooded sibling, so I knew that she was pregnant.
	Like, I could just tell that she was pregnant.
	Because she ran away and came back pregnant.
	No one knew she was pregnant but me.
	Ran away? How long was she gone for?
	She was gone for two weeks.
	And how old was she? She was 17.
	No, she was 16 and then she turned 17 by the time the child was born.
	So she ran away for two weeks at 16?
	Just ran off with some dude? Yeah.
	He was an adult as well.
	He wasn't... Oh, God!
	How old was he? He was like 24, at least.
	Wow, so he had a good eight years on her, and that's statutory rape, I assume?
	Yeah, but I don't think he...
	I don't think that's why he went to jail...
	Right. Because my family was so focused on her that they weren't really concerned with him.
	But she comes back and she's...
	No one knows that she's pregnant.
	And then every adult in the family just starts beating her.
	Oh, they beat her for running away, but they don't know she's pregnant when she's back.
	Yeah, I was the only one that knew that she was pregnant.
	They beat her so bad on her hands that Both her hands were cut open.
	And they did not stop beating her when her hands were cut open.
	What the hell were they hitting her with?
	Whips? A belt.
	It was about...
	Um...
	So yeah.
	But no, Stefan, from...
	never really felt...
	uncorrupted love from anyone in the family.
	No. Yeah, I guess that would make sense.
	All right. Okay, and I'm sorry for, like, yanking us all over Hell's Half Acre of Time here, but we are in your early mid-twenties at last call, and, oh no, a couple of years ago with the cat, and you felt this conscience hand come in and stop you from drowning the cat, I guess, on two separate days, and how has your life been since?
	It's improved, but the aspect of my life that I'm suffering with now is I know that I'm supposed to extend the helping hand towards humanity, but like this morning, I didn't sleep.
	I laid in bed.
	I Like, my body was tired, but my brain wasn't.
	Because I was...
	I was...
	I had...
	I was experiencing very high frenetic activity, just...
	thinking about all these videos I want to make, and I have all these different ideas in my head, and it's just firing over and over and over and over and over again.
	But I just will not get out of the bed...
	Walk over to the computer and edit another video.
	So you said you have a channel now, and how many videos have you made?
	I've made one of significance.
	Well, I've made two, but the first one was just nothing.
	I wasn't even talking in it, but I've made one of significance.
	And when did you start your channel?
	I believe it was in 2021.
	Okay. And how was the pandemic for you as a whole?
	The pandemic was great for me because I kept getting better jobs and made more money.
	Good for you. That's good.
	Sorry. But yeah, it was great for me.
	I wasn't bothered. I wasn't bothered by...
	Not being able to physically socialize with people because that doesn't bother me.
	And I did appreciate the fact that people started to see where people politically aligned themselves more so than they did before.
	It's not as foggy as it was before.
	It's very clear now. Oh, yeah, I know.
	Compliant people have a hole in their arm.
	Yeah. Yeah. And with regards to your awakening to political issues, health issues and so on, did it accelerate over the last couple of years or was it going fairly fast before?
	No, it's been going fast this entire time.
	Like ever since I graduated high school, we had a family computer and one of the things that my oldest brother told me before he moved, he said, You learn everything that you possibly can from that computer.
	And when I graduated, that's what I did.
	And I think this is just conjecture and probably just pseudoscience, but I don't think that I was as smart as I am now natively.
	I think that when I was experiencing this content, it Boosted my intellect.
	I don't know if you've ever worked.
	Well, yes, you have worked out.
	You know how when your body has a positive adaptation to a session and you sleep and wake up and you feel...
	It's as if you feel your muscle cells expanding.
	I don't know if you've experienced that before.
	I get that. Listen, I certainly believe that...
	When our minds are chaotic, they're all working in opposite directions.
	And I can remember a friend of mine playing soccer.
	He played soccer for so long, he got a cramp both in his quads and the back muscles, like the tendons.
	And so he couldn't stretch it, right?
	His quads were cramping and his hamstrings were cramping.
	And so he couldn't even walk.
	He couldn't get up. He couldn't stretch.
	It was just horrible. Because when your muscles are working in opposition, you can't do anything.
	That means you're paralyzed. And so if your mind is working in opposition, you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything.
	I think philosophy doesn't necessarily make your engine faster, but it puts the rubber on the road and it gives you a GPS. You know, like you're actually on the ground, you have a GPS, you've got a direction, you can get there, as opposed to just kind of hanging from a crane and no matter how hard you hit the gas, you're still not going anywhere.
	So... In terms of, like, to me, I don't know, I mean, I assume there's rewiring of the brain as well, but in terms of the practicality of intelligence, man, philosophy is just killer that way.
	I mean, and this is why it looks like a superpower from the outside.
	Yeah. Oh, hypertrophy is a word.
	I felt the feeling of hypertrophy in my brain, and it stopped me.
	Even though I kept listening to the content and it wasn't just your content.
	There were others as well.
	But it stopped when my brain...
	You slut! You unbelievable podcast slut!
	No, I'm just kidding. Go on.
	Only me! Only me!
	But yeah, it stopped when my brain reached maturity.
	That's why I believe that there's something to having people...
	Young people whose brains are not developed yet learn about something that they're interested in, but it's very content heavy.
	I think there's something to that, but that's just...
	Well, I mean, if you have muscle potential and you lift a whole bunch of heavy weights, you'll, you know...
	You'll grow muscles pretty quickly, right?
	I mean, there are some people like no matter how much they lift, they never really gain much muscle.
	And there are some people who have, you know, they just react very well to moving the heavy weights around in the dark room and they just get swole, they get big, right?
	And philosophy definitely can, you know, if you've got the muscles and it sounds like you do, then you develop pretty quickly.
	Yeah. Alright, so when did you first...
	Sorry, I want to make sure that we touched on the major issue here, because I know we've been talking for a while, and the major issue is you'd really like to up your productivity in terms of talking to the world.
	Is that right? Yes.
	Okay, okay. And what's your theory as, you know, as a guy who's got more than a smidge of self-knowledge, right?
	And, oh, and by the way, sorry, I don't want to blow past this.
	Like, congratulations on the conscience stuff.
	Like, I I don't think I've ever said congratulations on not drowning the cat before in this show, and I don't want to make that like a joke, but it's like a very serious thing, right?
	I mean, you had this impulse to violence, and you controlled it, and you've managed it, and the cat is alive, and that's crossing a big river.
	And I just wanted to say, you know, especially given the violence that not only you experienced on a continual basis pretty much as a child, and the social humiliation and the awkwardness and the, you know, some bad luck with the...
	With the antiperspirant and the deodorant.
	You really did, at least as we can see right now, from what you're telling me right now, you've managed to checkmate this demon to some degree.
	That's no small thing.
	I just really wanted to express my admiration and respect for gaining that in yourself.
	That's no small feat.
	It's a great thing that you've done.
	I just really wanted to not pass by that like it ain't no thing because it's a big thing.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you. I'm sure the cat appreciates it even more.
	Okay, so when did you first think I got to save the world kind of thing, right?
	And I don't mean that in any diminutive way.
	Like that's a very important thing and it's a powerful thing and I would never think that that's any kind of joke.
	But when did you first get the impulse to sort of communicate to the world to try and wake it up to various things?
	I'm trying to word this properly.
	My mother had some had a trait that she did.
	She wasn't new age spiritual or anything.
	She was a very hard-lined, hard-nosed Christian.
	And from time to time, she would be sitting in her room with the television off, the radio off.
	She didn't have a smartphone.
	She wasn't reading anything either.
	And she would be in like this meditative-like trance for hours on end.
	I started gaining the ability to do the same thing like that cognitively, and it would be idea-centric.
	And I just realized that I had this ability to just Understand things rapidly.
	For example, I can see the fact that...
	There's so many different video ideas I could bring up right now.
	Like the fact that when...
	I don't know.
	When Will Smith slapped Chris Rock and no one in the audience did anything, you saw the moral constitution of Hollywood, which is if someone higher in the dominance hierarchy does something, you don't do anything...
	They didn't do anything to stop him, which segues into the whole why all these different people in Hollywood are getting sexually assaulted and raped and all this, because that's their culture.
	There's so many different things I could...
	It just comes to me like this.
	It's so easy for me.
	I just have it all in my brain and I just don't let it out.
	So, and so what's your theory as to why you don't?
	Like, why you don't? Like, I don't know about the getting up at five in the morning.
	I guess whenever inspiration strikes or whatever.
	But the question is, to me, not why aren't you getting up at five in the morning when your brain's racing, but why don't you plan the day to get it done so that when you go to bed, you've achieved something.
	And like, I guess, what do you feel the block is in terms of your productivity?
	Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't clear about that.
	I get into bed at a normal time.
	I just don't sleep because these ideas are firing away in my brain for hours.
	No, no, no. I understand that.
	But what I'm saying is that if you did the video, if you did a video during the day, it seems to me less likely that you would wake up and your brain would be churning, right?
	Because you would have already produced something during the previous day, if that makes sense.
	You have a good point.
	If I... If I let it out during the day, then...
	If I don't pee before I go to bed, I wake up at five and I got to pee, right?
	So the discharge during the day might help you in terms of that, right?
	It's almost like the procrastination leads to a kind of desperation in your brain, as opposed to if your brain gets what it wants to get done done, then it's easier to rest, if that makes sense.
	Yes, that must be the solution.
	Well, but you know that that's something to do with it.
	So what do you think your block is to just sitting down and doing the video?
	Like you've done one, right? Or you've done two, but one is the one you say is consequential.
	What's your theory as to why there's the block?
	Like if I, like on a day that I don't work.
	I don't... There's no...
	Yeah, it's a gaming computer, but I don't really...
	I don't play games 8-10 hours a day.
	So it's not even that.
	Honestly, most of the time on my computer, I'm on YouTube.
	Right. And most of that content isn't even...
	No, you've been consuming content for like 12 years, right?
	13 years. Yeah.
	So you've absorbed enough.
	I mean, you don't need more content to produce your own content, right?
	So what's the block for you, whether you freestyle it or you write a script or whatever, like what is it that's the block for you to sit down and do it?
	Now, I'm not saying what is the block.
	I mean you must have some theory because you know everybody I mean myself everybody on the planet wrestles a little bit
	with procrastination I guess some more than others, but what's your theory as to
	why?
	You don't do it Is it
	Is it resentment well, I'm not asking you that I'm asking myself that is it
	Thank you.
	Do I want them to squalor away and suffer and die because I still resent them?
	Is that what it is? And by me holding my hand, I am in part responsible.
	Let me ask you this.
	Why is the world so great that you want to sacrifice yourself to save it?
	What do you love about the world?
	How has the world benefited you?
	What's worthy and noble and good out there that you want to stick your neck out, try and educate the masses, which Lord knows comes, as I know, and everybody who does it knows comes with its own set of problems, right?
	You want to save the world?
	I mean, that's fine.
	I'm fine with the impulse.
	But you've got to ask yourself, why do I want to save the world?
	What has the world done for you?
	How has the world earned your sacrifice?
	How has the world earned you sticking your neck out?
	How has the world earned your efforts of educating it?
	Do you want to save the world or do you want to change the world?
	These are two fundamental things, right?
	You know, if your kid falls into the water and your kid can't swim, you want to save your kid.
	You don't want to change your kid or you just want to save him, right?
	And if you have a world that's great, then you want to save it.
	But if the world sucks, by and large, you want to change it.
	So do you want to save the world or do you want to change the world?
	I think that's the two. Now, I don't want to tell you what your answer is, but I'll just tell you from what I've heard, my friend, I can't figure out why the fuck you'd want to save the world.
	The world that beat you, that mocked you, that ignored you, that cheered when you assaulted two fellow kids, the women who want to sleep with you because you're violent.
	The sister who, you know, sympathy for your sister, man.
	I mean, I know it's tough from where you're sitting, but, you know, she's got her hands beaten raw and bloody and then they continue to get beaten.
	And she experienced a lot of violence.
	She saw a lot of violence. Your dad's hiding out in a truck to avoid the violence of his wife and he comes home and, you know, your sister goes and squeals on you the moment that you do something wrong.
	To get your mom to beat you?
	Your mom's showing you all of this.
	She's rubbing your face like a cheese grater into the most sordid, evil aspects of human nature.
	Gulags and World War I and other war documentaries and Holocaust and prison camps and liquidation chambers.
	Your face is getting rubbed in this squalid, fetid, maggot-twisting underbelly of human evil.
	And that's why I asked you, okay, what are your breaks of the clouds here, brother?
	What are you seeing here?
	They're like, well, I've got to ride off on my white horse and I've got to save the world.
	Okay, I'm happy to hear the case.
	I think you can make a case, but emotionally, what's worth saving?
	Based on your experience, right?
	What is worth saving?
	If I'm on a cruise ship and I don't know who my greatest enemy would be, let's just make up some, you know, mustache rubbing greatest enemy, right?
	So if I'm on a big cruise ship and my enemy falls over the side, right, and he falls into the water and I see a bunch of shark fins around him, am I jumping in?
	Hey, if it's my kid, yeah, I'm jumping in.
	If it's my wife, I'm jumping in.
	My worst enemy falls into the ocean and there's sharks around him and I might jump it in.
	I'm not. I mean, I wouldn't push him.
	And I'd probably say to someone, hey, you know, someone fell overboard.
	But I'm not jumping in.
	And I understand, like, when I was talking about Sound of Freedom, the movie, right?
	This guy said, well, what if it was your kid?
	And I was like, but it's not. And, you know, people rightly said to me, but, you know, you got to remember the Christian thing is love your neighbor as yourself.
	Love another person's child as if they're your own child.
	And I get that. I understand that now better than I did before.
	But that's not me. Maybe that's you.
	You grew up Christian and maybe it's like, well, Jesus sacrificed himself for a pretty evil world and I'm willing to sacrifice myself for a pretty evil world in the hopes of bringing some salvation to the planet.
	But what are you saving?
	Are you saving violent families like the one you grew up in?
	Are you saving terrible educational systems where you get pushed forward to the 0.5%?
	Are you saving all of the people who mocked and ignored and spat on you and put you down and stole from you and then only gave you some respect when you beat one kid with your football helmet and threw another kid halfway across the calf?
	Then, oh, you know, then it's like, well, he's a great guy now and you come back Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday, you're off school.
	You come back Thursday and people are like, hey man, you're the greatest.
	Last week they were spitting on you.
	You beat a guy up and now you're a hero.
	Is that the world that you want to save?
	The world that's driven you into isolation?
	The world that has mocked, attacked and scorned and beaten you?
	To the point where You can't find a single person in your environment that you want to be friends with and your friends are online.
	I'm not criticizing you in any way, shape, or form.
	I'm not trying to put you down.
	I'm just telling you the steps that I see.
	I would love to hear the case.
	And maybe you're a better person than I and a bigger man than I. I'm perfectly happy to hear that case as well.
	But, I mean, I'm just telling you from my own perspective.
	You're not me. We're different.
	I understand all of that.
	But from my perspective... I don't want to save the world.
	Why on earth would I want to save the world?
	This world is, you know, a dung heap with an occasional rainbow.
	And the rainbows are great, and in my life it's mostly rainbows, but, you know, you look out there in the world, and, you know, people are lining up to kiss the feet of devils in the world.
	They're lining up to attack the virtuous and side with the violent and immoral.
	They're mostly just salmon In a stream or whatever the current is, they'll swim that way.
	And they'll attack whoever people in charge point at and they'll defend whoever people in charge say is a good person or a fine person, doesn't matter what.
	Evil escalates and goes unpunished all the time.
	Evil is elevated to positions of power and good people are driven into the wilderness.
	That's our society.
	Children are beaten. Everybody steps over.
	They're broken and bloody bodies.
	And attacks anyone who says maybe we shouldn't beat children.
	The just are tortured with impotence and the unjust are elevated to positions of near godlike power.
	And the media rushes to attack the virtuous and fake ennoble the dishonorable.
	You have received very little kindness in your life.
	You have received tortuous amounts of violence, humiliation, degradation, neglect, abuse, scorn, and contempt.
	I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to figure out, and I'm happy to hear the case.
	I could be completely, have my head on my ass here.
	I'm perfectly willing to hear that case, my friend, but...
	Fuck me, I'm trying to figure out why you love the world enough to make videos to save it.
	And I know I make videos, like I know all of that, but I'm trying to get into your mindset.
	Because I've had these wrestlings, and how I resolve these wrestlings isn't that important, because how you resolve them is what matters to me in this conversation.
	So... If you can't come from a place of love of something, and I know you can, but if you can't come from a place of love of something, I don't know how it's going to be sustained.
	And I think that when you want to make a video, I think that's a commandment you give yourself.
	Well, I've got all this knowledge. I've got to help the world.
	And a lot of the people that I admire or respect, they're out there helping the world.
	I've got to help the world.
	Yeah, but you've got to cross that canyon of nihilism and bitterness and rage and anger.
	I think. And I know you've crossed some of it and I respect and admire that for what that's worth.
	But I'm trying to figure out In your youth and the harm that's been done to you and the contempt that's been poured upon you and the absolute opposite signals.
	You should have been respected for being a good man.
	Instead, you were scorned for being peaceful and you were respected and sex was thrown at you for being violent.
	Like the world was punishing you for self-restraint and then rewarding you for attacking other children.
	So what are you... Is there love within you for the world that you want to save it?
	Because if the love is not there, and in fact, I can understand, and I share this to some degree as well, I can understand some of this bitterness and contempt about the world.
	So I think that what's between you and the videos is you've got to find a way to wrestle with this.
	In my view, I could be wrong, right?
	I mean, you could be rolling your eyes, you could be shaking your head, you could be nodding, I don't know, right?
	I don't know if I get an amen from this speech or not the case at all.
	But in my sense of it is that you are a man greatly sinned against.
	And not just that you've been harmed, but also, you know, it's really striking to me just how you were socially rewarded and sexually offered rewards for...
	Attacking for finally letting slip the dogs of war and shucking off your self-restraint.
	Beating a kid with a helmet and beating a kid in the cafeteria.
	And everyone's like, wow, that's wonderful, man.
	You're the man. You're the greatest.
	Let's go on a date. So, is the world that you've lived in worth sacrificing to save?
	Is the world that is worth sacrificing yourself potentially to save?
	Because if you have, let's say that you make the videos and you get a billion views and you get, like, I don't know, Andrew Tate levels of fame or, you know, maybe even me at my height levels of fame or whatever, I mean, you know what comes after that, right?
	Right? What comes when you do something to genuinely help the world?
	Well, I mean, history is full of figures who've genuinely helped the world and they get attacked and ostracized and deplatformed and defunded and, you know, sometimes crimes are invented or whatever, right?
	So you'd be...
	If you get what you want, and you certainly have the intelligence and charisma and language skills and all of that to achieve, okay, so let's say you achieve what you want, and you become a very positive and powerful force for good in this world, and then you're going to get attacked, right? Yes.
	So, if there is in you unresolved things about Why would I want to help a world that not only never helped me but encouraged me in the wrong direction and harmed me as a child?
	Punished me for my virtues and rewarded me for my vices.
	Do you want to save that world?
	Do you want to save the world that you grew up in?
	Perhaps I shouldn't focus on the world.
	I'd say that That's what others have done for me.
	Stefan, it cannot be calculated how much I needed you.
	Because of you, children aren't beaten by my hands.
	Look, that means the world to me.
	Sorry, go ahead. I don't want to interrupt you.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	If Yes, the world is a horrible place, but perhaps this whole time my focus point has been on the wrong people, which is why I didn't have the emotional motivation to actually do what needs to be done.
	If I switch my emotional motivation towards the people that Can be redeemed, then...
	I haven't tried this yet.
	No, but... What I'm trying to say, and I'm saying it very badly, and again, I really appreciate your incredibly kind words.
	That moves me more than I can say.
	So I really, really appreciate that.
	But look, man. Are you redeemed as yet?
	I don't know. You don't have a lover...
	Right? You don't have prospects of that.
	You don't have a path to family.
	You don't have a path to fatherhood.
	Are you redeemed as yet?
	Have you overcome the bitterness?
	Or wrestled with it, or challenged it, or are you in that process?
	What's between you and being loved?
	What's between you and loving a woman?
	If you want to save the world, you first have to inhabit a world that is worth saving, which is a loving community, a family, whatever.
	That's true. So if I've done things to help you with the negativity and the bitterness, and as you said at the beginning of the conversation, the evil, I'm thrilled.
	But my purpose is for people, and that was the first video you saw, which is the video about the Christmas truce in 1914, right?
	My purpose in what I do is to open people's hearts to love, to being loved and to loving.
	Now, if you have a world, a personal world, that is worth defending, then I think it will help the world as a whole.
	But you can't come from a place of love if you're not loved.
	I don't think you can come from a place of love if you don't have somebody to love in
	your life.
	And that's my question now.
	Bye.
	I'm going to be somewhat assertive right now, and I hope that this lands the right way.
	Okay, listen, I get the, you know, whatever street cred of attempted murder.
	This is not the case, man.
	You didn't put anyone in hospital.
	I get that you had the impulse, you had the thoughts.
	Okay, everyone who's, yeah, I get that.
	But look, the kid got up and cried.
	He didn't go to hospital, the kid on the football field.
	And look, I'm not saying it wasn't right what you did.
	I get all of that. But you didn't almost kill the guy.
	And I get you got the pencil thing and that was a vision in your head and all of that, but that didn't happen.
	So it's universally preferable behavior, not...
	Murderous thoughts. Everybody on this planet, me, you, everybody on this planet has had murderous thoughts.
	It's called being human and especially if you've done any good in the world, there's lots of assholes who will attack you and you've had murderous thoughts, I've had murderous thoughts, everybody I know who have ever talked about this has had murderous thoughts.
	So the first thing that I would say is maybe ease back just a little bit on this attempted murderous stuff.
	Well, a couple things.
	So, the second kid, he did go to the hospital.
	And by attempted murder, I meant I was committing attempted murder in my heart.
	That's what I mean. And I did have to go to...
	I was charged, and there was this...
	You were charged, I assume, with something like assault or something, but not attempted murder.
	Yeah, but by attempted murder, I wasn't referring to the legal definition.
	I was referring to committing it in my heart because that is how it's psychologically meaningful.
	I don't regard it being legally meaningful.
	I was coming from a place of psychological meaning.
	Right. And what did he go to hospital for?
	A broken nose and knocked out teeth.
	Right. Okay. It was a rough fight, right?
	That's a harsh fight. But, you know, he didn't lose an eye.
	He didn't have a concussion that, you know, they had to cut his skull open or something.
	I mean, it's a rough fight.
	I mean, I've seen rough fights.
	And yes, but I just...
	How you're defining it in yourself is very harsh.
	But that's what it was psychologically.
	That's why, you know, like you're not a lawyer, you're Stefan.
	Yeah, yeah. So I come to you with...
	I've regarded it as attempted murder because that's what it was in my heart.
	Right. You mean...
	So especially because with the second kid...
	In the cafeteria, is your belief or is it your perception that if your friends had not pulled you guys apart that you might have done, like you would have done much more damage to him?
	No, I would have killed him.
	Okay. All right.
	So even though the pencil through the eye thing didn't play, you would have just continued to attack him until he was dead.
	That was your goal at that moment?
	That is correct. Okay.
	All right. Well, then I think the first one, okay, I'm with you on the second one.
	If that was your goal, I'm right.
	I understand that. Okay. So, listen, I really appreciate that correction.
	It's good to get these things accurate.
	Okay. Although, it might have kicked in like the way it kicked in with the cat, right?
	It wouldn't have because I was too immature.
	Right. Right. Still too impulsive and all right.
	And keep in mind, with the cat, there was no materialistic negative consequence to me killing the cat.
	Right, right.
	And I restrain myself regardless.
	Right, right.
	In fact, to me, that's more honorable, right?
	Right. I mean, if you've been doing it right in front of a police officer and you'd stopped it, you all would have said, well, because the cop was there, right?
	Yeah. Right. Okay.
	Right. Okay, so it's in your heart, right?
	Now, do you get any breaks in your mind, in your conscience for being so young?
	You said you were immature, and you weren't just immature in terms of like you weren't an adult yet.
	You were also immature in that what had been modeled for you was you solved problems with violence.
	It's what your mother did, it's what your father did, it's what your sister did, maybe your brother or two.
	We haven't really talked much about him, but I assume he's somewhere in the family continuum.
	So all you had seen is if there's a conflict, you use violence.
	Isn't that what you were taught by your family?
	This is true, yes.
	So, I mean, I don't blame myself for speaking English, do you?
	No. Because that's what you were taught, right?
	I would sit there and say, God, I can't believe I didn't spin the wheel and choose Japanese or Mandarin.
	That'd be super helpful. It's like, no, I was taught English.
	And you were taught violence.
	That was the language. That's how you resolve problems.
	That's how you deal with things.
	You got a conflict?
	Beat the hell out of someone.
	Implements, fists, doesn't matter.
	I mean, that's what you were taught.
	And no matter how, like if you and I vowed to never speak English again, never read English again, we'd get to the end of our days.
	We'd get to the end of our days.
	Somebody would whisper us something in English, would we understand it?
	Yes, we would. Yes, we would.
	Because you never unlearn your first tongue.
	You never unlearn your first language.
	and your first language was extreme violence extreme violence
	I mean, you know, I've talked to thousands of people over the course of these call-in shows, and the childhood that you and your siblings had was unbelievably brutal.
	I mean, your sister, like so many young women, children, like so many young women, finds it so unbearable at home that the first guy with a nice smile and a secure environment, she'll just run there.
	She's so starved for affection.
	She's so starved for any dopamine, any endorphins, any positive experience in this life.
	This is what's so dangerous about abusing young girls in particular, is that the first guy who promises them a peaceful environment for 90 seconds gets their whole heart.
	They're desperate for any kind of peace.
	And I get, you know, your sister was a troublemaker and so on, but all children are far more sinned against than sinning.
	You didn't just wake up from a...
	A peaceful, loving childhood and say, I'm just going to beat people up.
	Like, that doesn't happen.
	That's not a thing. That's not a real thing.
	You were deeply instructed in violence, and not just personal violence, but planetary violence, which is why I raised the red flag so much on your mom showing you these documentaries.
	Yes, that was objectively wrong.
	Well, because she's telling you that violence is how the world runs.
	You know, there was this goofy movie I saw when I was in my early teens.
	And it was about Jack the Ripper, like the notorious prostitute murdering psychopath from Victorian London.
	He went through a time machine and came to the modern world.
	And he was looking at videos of what was going on in the world, right?
	The wars, the fights, the violence, and so on.
	And he's like, man, back in the Victorian age, I was an exception.
	Here, I'm going to blend in perfectly.
	This is my world!
	I won! My type won!
	You know, they're sending war crime cluster bombs to Ukraine.
	They're talking about Ways to start World War III. They're mutilating children.
	We live on an Aztec planet, sometimes it feels like.
	Yeah. So, you weren't just experiencing violence as an exception to the way the world runs.
	Your mother was saying to you, the world runs on blood.
	The world runs on death.
	The world runs on murder.
	The world runs on genocide.
	And she's showing that.
	Do you know why she's showing that to you deep down, I believe?
	She's showing that to you to say, I'm preparing you for that world out there.
	There's no escape. If I were to raise you peacefully, I would lead you as lambs to the wolves.
	You would be slaughtered.
	And you understand, your society, the society in your high school completely agreed with your mother because they were training you to be violent.
	They were punishing you for being peaceful and rewarding you for being violent.
	And the women, right?
	I mean, I wrote about this in my novel, The Present.
	The women, why are they gravitating towards the violent guys?
	Because they know what's coming. And that cute guy who makes you laugh ain't going to do a whole lot of good if food runs out, right?
	That was, you know, Arlo versus Oliver in my book, right?
	So, what's the purpose of your videos and what are you trying to save?
	And are you in a position...
	To act from a place of love.
	And I know this sounds all kind of goofy in Hallmark Harden.
	Act from a place of love.
	It sounds like some cheesy air supply song.
	But if you want to make the world a better place, doesn't your world have to be a better place first?
	I mean, remember, I didn't start doing any videos until after I was married.
	I didn't start to do any videos really In terms of going whole hog until after I was a father.
	Jordan Peterson.
	What has he got? Three kids?
	He had a big long ass career before he started pushing back on the woke stuff.
	I don't want you to save the world.
	I want you to be in love and to be loved.
	Now, whatever happens from there, fantastic.
	If you want to save the world, but you've got to have your world has got to be beautiful, I think, before you try and bring beauty to the world as a whole.
	And I'm concerned that you might be leapfrogging over your need to love and be loved.
	Into, save the world!
	And it's like, well, what about your world?
	What about your life?
	What about your heart? What about what you need?
	I know that from what, I know that From my studies, what you're saying is correct, because the modus operandi is to remove men from families to cripple their want to fight back.
	I try to ignore the fact that I may have that drive, but based upon what you're saying, it appears that I do.
	Well, okay. What's happening in your life?
	Because we last talked about girls when you were a teenager.
	So what's happening in your life from the female side?
	Nothing. I've actually never had sex.
	Never had sex? Have you been on a date?
	No, I've never been on a date either.
	I've had the opportunity to have...
	In fact, when I was homeless, this...
	Oh god, there's going to be another story that's going to make me nihilistic now, isn't it?
	Yeah, fuck the world. Oh my god, forget making videos.
	Okay, so tell me all of the sexual opportunities you had when you were homeless.
	I'm assuming the crack position here.
	I'm going to need your teenage helmet to put around my head.
	Okay, tell me all the ways in which women found you hot when you were homeless.
	I'm ready. Well, there's just one woman in particular that she was a...
	If you look up the word MILF in the dictionary, you'll see a picture of her.
	They had a MILF. She was a yoga instructor in the library because I guess libraries have yoga classes for some reason.
	Because I was hanging out at the library a lot, we saw each other Once a week when she would go there to do her class, and she was married and propositioned me and all this.
	And I even told her that I was homeless and she didn't care.
	And that's that case election again.
	Yeah, was it some woman some years ago...
	Was telling me that she broke up with some guy and he put on his profile, future MILF hunter.
	And of course, you know, me with my 56-year-old innocence, I'm like, oh, what?
	No, anyway, so that's how she explained it to me.
	And I was like, oh, really?
	Oh, my God. We live in hell.
	Okay, so what's the barrier for you and dating?
	Stefan, I'm really tired of being fat.
	I've been fat since I was in kindergarten.
	And, like, girls will like me even though I'm fat.
	And I'm like, I start projecting.
	Because, you know, you can't view, it's very difficult to view yourself as a sexual observer would view you.
	Oh, like you look in the mirror and you imagine being a woman looking at you?
	Yeah. So even though women will like me, even though I'm fat, I'm like, no, I'll just lose the weight first.
	Right, right. Tomorrow never comes, right?
	Yeah. Okay, so that's the next question.
	what's the barrier to losing the weight?
	That would have to be food addiction.
	Thank you for listening.
	But I'm doing better, to be honest with Stefan.
	My starting weight, since I decided to...
	Because I have started trying to lose weight.
	My starting weight was 360, but now I'm down to 324.
	That's fantastic. Yeah, but...
	My food addiction is making it a slower process than it needs to be.
	Do you know what your calorie count today is?
	Well, right now it's zero.
	I haven't eaten today. Okay.
	Don't make me work this hard, man.
	I'm sorry. Oh, come on.
	Okay, today? Not counting today because you got a food addiction.
	Yeah, I'm bald today, but tomorrow I'll have hair.
	Okay, no. I mean, I don't know if you're tracking your calories or whatever, but do you know what your calorie is on a regular day?
	No, I don't count calories because there was a time when I lost a lot of weight.
	I went from 360 to 300 in three months.
	Holy crap. Yeah, the way that I did that, I just ate once a day.
	And the reason I ate once a day is because at that time I was unemployed and I wanted to preserve my money.
	So I would only buy enough food to last.
	Like I would just buy enough food and just eat it.
	I would just eat once a day to make my food last longer.
	And through that I lost weight rapidly.
	I didn't even work out at all.
	I didn't even go for walks. And how long ago was that?
	That was early 2017, so before the year that Irma hit and I was homeless, but before.
	And what had you gained the weight back, do you think?
	Oh, I had money again and, you know.
	Okay, right. You can afford food.
	You can afford all the food.
	Right. Yeah. Do you have a particular weakness for food, like a particular type of food?
	My favorite is Chinese.
	Okay. I'm not really a dessert, sweets kind of guy.
	I like savory food.
	And I know before you said that food addiction typically happens with people that don't have any joy.
	I remember that call-in.
	I don't know if you do, though.
	Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I get that.
	I mean, yeah, I... I do wrestle sometimes with overeating.
	I know roughly where it comes from, which is food was scarce when I was a kid, so whenever you had the chance to eat, you'd just eat until you were bursting, right?
	I mean, that's because I was, you know, it's a hunter-gatherer meal.
	Like, you get a deer, you eat like crazy, because you don't know when the next deer is coming, so I have a little bit of that.
	So... The weights, yeah, I can understand that, right?
	And then you may have concerns or questions about sexual performance if your weight is that high and, you know, that's kind of stressful and you don't want that to be your first experience and that's, you know, that's pretty rough all around, right?
	No, I don't even ponder that.
	Oh, that's good. It's not even that.
	Not there, okay. Right.
	In the sense that I don't even, like, I don't come up with other reasons to justify, like, it's just my weight.
	Like, I'm so tired of being fat.
	Like, I'm so tired of it. Right, right.
	And here's the thing.
	I mean, you know exactly what to do to lose weight, right?
	I mean, you've been working out forever, right?
	So, you know, I mean, it's just math, right?
	Yeah, it's just math.
	3,500 calories a pound, and you just eat less, exercise more.
	I mean, that's all, right?
	I mean, psychologically and emotionally, yeah, it's all complicated, but it's not...
	It's not like you've got to learn how to solve quadratic equations in an isolation tank rolling down a hill, right?
	I mean, it's just math, right?
	right calories in calories out and you lose weight.
	Yes, that is correct.
	Yeah, I mean, there's apps, a friend of mine was telling me about it, there's an app,
	I can't remember what it's called, but you just basically it's got a whole,
	everything you eat is in the app, you just type in what you're eating
	and it'll tell you the calories and you just track the calories.
	And so again, I'm not an expert in this sort of stuff, but that would be, first you gotta track where you're at.
	But do you wanna get married?
	Do you wanna be a dad?
	Do you wanna be a husband?
	Is that something that you would like if you could?
	Thank you. Um.
	.
	I know that that's what I'm supposed to do.
	That's the worst answer ever.
	Oh, yes, I know.
	I have to do taxes and it's like that.
	And I got to brush my teeth and who likes flossing?
	No one, right? No, but is that something that would be a...
	I mean, I'm sure you've heard the shows with my daughter or like, you know, it can be a huge amount of fun and it generally is.
	But... I don't know whether you should or shouldn't.
	It's a personal decision, but is that something that you could see being positive in your life?
	Yes. I must avoid the first impulse to view it in a utilitarian sense, because that's the source of the all-devouring father.
	abuses of family, particularly children in a utilitarian sense, and as a consequence,
	they don't feel love from him.
	So I know that in a literal sense, people should have children.
	Thank you.
	Well, I mean, you've got to have a purpose to all this knowledge, right?
	If you're not sharing it with the world and you're not sharing it with your children, what's the point?
	Yeah, I'm not giving anything away.
	Well, I mean, you're accumulating all this knowledge, and it sticks with you, right?
	I mean, I'm sure you share it online, and there's some value in that and all, right?
	But when you're a dad, you get to really impart your knowledge and your wisdom to the next generation, and then they will impart your knowledge and wisdom to their children, adding their own, and you're part of the great cycle of life, great chain of being, blah, blah, blah, right?
	And, you know, also, you know, your sister, who I'm sure is not a big fan of this show and probably has never listened, she's having a whack load of kids.
	And, you know, to me, it's not the end of the world if the smart people have the kids too.
	That's not, you know, that's the kind of world I want to live in too.
	So I sort of encourage that.
	But of course, you know, that's the choice.
	I mean, so if you lost the weight and you wanted to date, I'm sure you could get I mean, you're a charming, smart, articular fellow and good for you.
	Verbal skills off the charts, reasoning skills off the charts and your knowledge of, you know, not a lot of women out there going on dates hearing about Jungian shadow archetypes and that's a good thing.
	So I would say, I mean, you have a lot to offer from that standpoint.
	And, you know, talk about breaking the cycle.
	I mean, if you're into this show and other people who talk about, you know, good parenting practices and all of that, I mean, then you would really be breaking the cycle within your own family, which would be great.
	But it has to be something that you want.
	And what I mean by that, it doesn't mean you have to want it.
	It's just that you can't get there if you don't, obviously, right?
	So if you lost the weight, or, you know, I mean, I don't know if you want to be Joe Sixpack or what, but if you lost the weight, would you date?
	Yeah, I would. Okay.
	Right. Do you feel that you would know what to look for and have some reasonable means of evaluating a quality woman versus not-so-quality woman?
	Yeah. One of the...
	I suppose gifts you could say that I have now.
	It's very easy for me to read people because that comes from that whole predatory mindset.
	Right, right, right.
	So then the major issue is the weight, right?
	Were your parents overweight? Yeah, they were.
	My mom not as much as my dad though.
	Well, the trucker thing is rough, right?
	I mean, you end up with a button the size of Kansas, right?
	And were you heavy as a kid just because of no exercise and bad food, or what was that?
	No, we went outside and played a lot, so I was running around and fighting with sticks and running in the woods and stuff like that, because there was woods outside the house, but I just ate a lot.
	Now, did you eat a lot because those were the servings and the portions?
	Or were you, like, standing in front of the cupboard half the day looking for what you could eat?
	No, I think...
	Well, that's fucked up now that I look back on it.
	You know what, Safa, this is going to enrage you.
	Two things. First thing...
	My mom did give me more food per meal time than she did my sister.
	Because my sister has always been thin, which is why she got around, if you know what I mean.
	The other thing, Stefan, shortly after I graduated, there was a gym.
	Because, you know, I lifted weights consistently from...
	9th to 12th grade.
	So I knew how to gain muscle and I already had a good amount of muscle gained up before after graduating.
	So I asked my mom, hey mom, there's a gym a mile away from our house.
	Can you pay for me to have a gym membership there and I'll work out and I'll lose this weight?
	And she was like, okay, yeah, cool.
	So I did.
	What I would do, I would wake up at 10 p.m., walk a mile to the gym, always lift heavy weights, walk a mile back home.
	Then I would, at 12 a.m., I would wake up, And I would run a mile, rest, and run a mile back home.
	And then, if I felt like it, typically I would, because this was another way that I consumed content.
	I would walk from two and a half to five miles back home.
	And I was rapidly losing weight.
	I was gaining muscle.
	I was stronger than I've ever been.
	I was squatting 365 for eight reps.
	I was gaining strength.
	You can bench press yourself at your heaviest.
	Yeah. And then she told me, we no longer have enough money for you to go to the gym.
	So I'm canceling your membership.
	That was a lie.
	And the reason that was a lie is because we now as a family have more money than we ever did because the three nieces and nephews that live with us moved out.
	And it was just myself, my father, my mother, and my sister living there.
	So we had way more money than we ever had.
	But she sabotaged my sexual development.
	Because I was becoming a beefcake.
	She sabotaged that while also giving me more food to eat as she was raising me.
	It's like she didn't want me to To get a girlfriend.
	There's several reasons that I have in my head, but she certainly sabotaged me in doing that, at least at that time.
	And her saying that we didn't have money, we didn't have $35 a month for me to lose weight, which is a little investment in your child that has been fat his entire life, is a lie.
	They had money. Well, or you just end up paying in medical bills or something, right?
	Yeah. So, um...
	That's what she did.
	Yeah, I'm sorry about that.
	And it's not uncommon. Not uncommon for moms to pick a son to make him unattractive.
	There's lots of reasons for it, but it's a tragically common situation.
	Particularly when she already has other children that have passed on their genes, so she's not necessarily biologically or psychologically invested in me passing on my genes.
	Well, and she's angry at men and, you know, lonely to your dad and hostile towards men.
	And, oh, yeah, there's a lot of messed up stuff that goes.
	Because, I mean, you know, in many ways, you say your parents were together, but in many ways, you had a single mother experience, right?
	Because your dad was gone so much.
	Well, she wasn't hostile to men at all.
	And my mom and my dad got along great.
	So what happened was that, man, there's...
	Oh, my God, my childhood was so...
	Wow.
	So... When my mother and father got together, he beat her.
	She was a single mother of three boys and he beat her.
	And she had children with him.
	First came my sister and then came myself.
	And she tamed him in part by giving him children.
	And I've never seen him beat her.
	He only beat her before I was born.
	Perhaps before my sister was born.
	I don't think he beat her after my sister was born.
	And all my brothers say, you all were born in the golden era of the family.
	Because this is after my mother tamed my father.
	And of course, that segues into if that kind of romantic dynamic would have replicated in me if I just...
	I found one of those girls that were interested in me, beat her, impregnated her, had kids.
	Right, right. So, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, I think there certainly is probably an element of, well, I can't date because I want to break the cycle.
	Like, if there's no way that you know how to break the cycle without that, then I just can't date, right?
	Like, because I don't know how to break the cycle.
	And if that was what's going on with your parents, I think that would be a pretty tough thing to break out of, right?
	And then food becomes a way that you avoid having to be romantic, right?
	True. Yeah.
	And have you thought of, you know, I'm obviously a smart guy, you don't need anyone to solve your problems, but I'm just curious if you've thought of like, I mean, again, you know how to lose the weight, you get the gym membership, you cut down to eating, but, you know, have you thought of a new personal trainer or nutritionist or, you know, that kind of stuff that might help with that?
	Well, it's not that I wouldn't need a personal trainer or nutritionist because I already know how to eat.
	One of the greatest foods to eat is a potato because...
	It's the most filling food per the amount of calories that it has.
	And it's very versatile.
	When I lost all that weight, one of the things I was eating was I would bake a potato and have chicken.
	And that would be my one meal for the day, but it was very filling because of the potato.
	Another way is to have coffee.
	It doesn't matter if it's decaf or not because coffee is a natural hunger suppressant.
	Just don't put a bunch of cream and sugar in it.
	I just put milk in mine.
	I already know all this stuff.
	I just need to do it.
	I have everything.
	I was given everything.
	I just need to do it. Yeah, so maybe instead of focusing on the videos, focus on the white.
	And that's going to help your videos no matter what, because the more attractive you are, the more people will want to watch your videos, right?
	Because, you know, if you were to show your face, and I don't know whether you would or wouldn't, but if you were to show your face or people would find out who you were, if, you know, 300 pounds plus, you know, it's going to cut into your credibility.
	That's just the way the world is, right?
	Yeah, and even if I'm not showing my face, I'm going to feel better, and that's going to show up in my voice.
	Yes, that's a very good point.
	That's a very good point.
	So yeah, I think that's probably the major issue is stop letting your long dead mom sabotage
	your weight loss.
	Yes.
	And recognize that, I mean, I would assume that all the work that you've done in controlling
	your temper and your anger and turning it towards something positive, because you know,
	and anger is a helpful and positive thing in the world.
	It's just, you know, not rage and destruction, but I would say that eating to stay away from women is a way of solving the problem of violence, but it doesn't really.
	It doesn't really. It's like saying that the problem with being bad at tennis is to never play tennis.
	It's like, well, no.
	Then you're not even on the court.
	You're not even playing the game, right?
	So I think you have to...
	I mean, I think obviously for your health and attractiveness and sense of being positive about yourself, the weight loss is really important, but that's the real cycle to break.
	Yeah. Because when you were a kid, this last thing I sort of wanted to mention here, so when you were a kid, you did not have control over your own flesh, right?
	You had no control because when you live in a violent situation, and not just physical violence but the emotional violence as well, you don't have any control over your moods, right?
	I mean, you're yanked around like the tail of a kite on whoever's angry or Your brother comes home with the wrong goddamn water.
	So you don't have any control over your own emotions and you don't really have any control over your own flesh because your own flesh is being used against you.
	Your body is being used against you.
	Because when you get beaten, your parents are specifically using your body to torture you, to harm you.
	Your body is not your friend.
	It's not your ally.
	It's not your sanctuary.
	You don't have any boundaries.
	You don't have any control over your moods.
	You don't have any control over your pain because it can be inflicted on you at a moment's notice.
	And you live in anxiety because you're just waiting for the shoe to drop and the fists to fly.
	So, to regain control over your own body and your own mind and your own feelings is like the foundational task of victims of child abuse.
	To regain control over your own body.
	Because your relationship with your body is, you know, somewhat hostile, which makes sense because your body was used to torture you.
	But that's not your body's fault.
	That's not your body's fault.
	That's your parents' fault.
	And the relationship that you have with your body, it being hostile because your body was used to torture your mind, it's blaming the victim.
	Your body was just the mechanism by which they abused you.
	You know, to take a silly example, if your parents hit you with a belt, you don't sit there and say, well, I'm never wearing belts again.
	I'll let my pants hang down my ankles, right?
	I'm never wearing belts.
	It's not the belt's fault. The belt was just the implement.
	It's not your body's fault that this was the mechanism used to punish you.
	Your body was having a worse time than you were in a way.
	So I think having a positive relationship with your body and saying, listen, man, I know you were used to torture me, but it wasn't your fault.
	It was your parents. It was our parents' fault.
	Having that positive relationship with your body.
	Your body is there to support your brain.
	Your body is there to keep you healthy.
	Your body is there because, you know, you've got a second brain down there in the gut, right?
	You're not just all up in the head.
	You've got a second brain down in the gut.
	Which has massive implications to how we think and how we reason.
	Trying to reason with your head alone is like trying to bowl with a balloon.
	It just doesn't do much.
	You need the weight and the gravitas.
	I think reconnecting with what your body wants and what your body needs and what's best for your body, I think would be the first thing to do in terms of really changing the world.
	Whether that leads to a marriage or kids or whatever is less important than the fact that that's, I think, the big challenge.
	Maybe that's the canyon that you have to cross and what's on the other side is not helping the world, but just having a positive relationship with your own physicality, your own flesh.
	Because when our body is used to punish us, we tend to recoil.
	Why do people have these abstract forms and abstract heaven and concepts and nirvana?
	It's like, well, because the body was a torture device.
	And to get peace, we like to flee the physical.
	We like to flee the flesh. This is why people get so addicted to abstractions.
	But no, if you can't be friends with your body, you can't be friends with the world.
	And if you can't have a mutually beneficial relationship between the mind and the body, I don't know how you can have a mutually beneficial relationship with anyone else.
	Because if you're tense with regards to your body, part of that tension is...
	It's always going to be used to torture you.
	And now, your body as a kid was used to torture you through violence and stress, and now your body tortures you through overeating and greed and fat, right?
	So you still, you just took over in a sense where your parents were, and you're still mortifying yourself with your flesh.
	It's just you're doing it with fat rather than fear, if that makes sense.
	Thank you, Stefan. I understand now.
	Is that a useful place?
	Yeah, I tried to avoid it and leapfrog over it, but I can't.
	The enemy knew that I couldn't.
	I need to have...
	If I had a family with me, that's when I would really be activated.
	As a force against them.
	I think so. I can't agree with that.
	And see, people find their way to you through your body because we don't exist as disembodied brains.
	We're not ghosts, right?
	So people find their way to you through your body.
	They look at your flesh. They look into your eyes, which are physical, right?
	They shake your hand, which is physical.
	They hug your body, which is physical.
	People find their way to your mind through your flesh.
	And right now, you're keeping...
	People at bay with your flesh and I think make it, you know, inviting to you, positive to other people, healthy and all of that and I think that's the real breaking of the cycle that you need is make friends with the body that tragically was used to torture you through no fault of your body.
	They're just nerve endings and they're trying to keep you alive and they did keep you alive and I think you might want to return the favor by treating your body better.
	All right. I mean, I know we traveled a lot over the course of this conversation, but how do you feel that it went as a whole?
	It was great. It was what I expected.
	I'm surprised it went as long as it did.
	I'm actually gleeful that it went as long as it did.
	You've got a lot going on, brother.
	Yeah. All right.
	Well, listen, I really appreciate the call and I appreciate the...
	I always feel deeply honored by the respect that people give me with their secrets and the tragedies in their life.
	So, I mean, I hope as always I've helped in a respectful way and I think that the work that you've done is incredible and what you survived is amazing and I stand in awe of your resolution to a better life and I hope that you will keep me posted about how things are going and, you know, don't be a stranger in your journey as a whole.
	I will. I appreciate that, Stefan.
	It's not a secret anymore.
	I guess not. Well, listen, thanks for the call.
	Again, I really appreciate it. I hope you'll keep me posted and have yourself a great evening.
	And listen, feel free to eat something if you want to get past the zero for today of galleries.
	I will. Bye-bye, Stefan.

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