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May 5, 2021 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:44:44

How Abuse Can Set You Free - Freedomain Call In

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	What's on your mind? How can I help you?
	Sorry, I'm a little bit nervous.
	Yeah, I guess I just wanted to get some guidance or some insight.
	I know you've helped a lot of people.
	I've listened to you for quite a few years now.
	I've had issues with healthy functioning relationships, I believe, stem from childhood trauma.
	I'm currently undergoing psychotherapy regarding a sexual assault that happened late last year.
	I'm 28 and I understand you have discussed sexual market value in the past, but I have concerns if I was to even now start a family, the generational trauma carried through DNA and unhealed issues, how that would affect Any children that I would have.
	I did listen to you the other day, Andrew, sorry, Anthony Johnson and yourself were talking about epistemology.
	You talked about gaslighting and that having an effect on being able to process reality.
	If someone has been successful in attacking that, you can never love Trust or feel you deserve anything good.
	I sometimes wonder how affected I am by this.
	You also said that if you learn from getting through somebody taking that or attacking that off of the epistemology, nothing will ever get between you and your own epistemology again.
	I feel that it's made me become naive and easily manipulated.
	So there's a few things there.
	I'm sorry, Steph, I'm quite nervous.
	No, no, I'm listening.
	No problem. Go ahead. Yeah, so I do worry that I can be naive and trusting of the wrong things, yet distrusting of You know, healthy things, healthy relationships.
	So, yeah, I do struggle.
	I find I do struggle with disassociation.
	Sometimes I'll have an overwhelming feeling of reality just hitting me in the face.
	And I also overthink things to the point they might become irrational or delusional thoughts that manifest into further dysfunction within my relationship.
	Right, right. Well, I mean, yeah, so I appreciate that.
	I do want to talk about the history thing.
	The first thing that comes to mind, though, is that you still seem pretty harsh on yourself.
	You say you're naive and easily manipulated, and I don't believe that that's the case.
	What I do think, though, is that you had survival mechanisms as a child that were required for survival.
	And because you're changing your environment now, I mean, if you just stay in brutal, destructive environments, then your childhood survival mechanisms continue to work well.
	If you're aiming for something higher and something better, then those survival mechanisms don't help anymore.
	They hinder you, right? So I don't think that there's anything like, oh, just naive and easily manipulated.
	It's like, well, no. Your boundaries were violated when you were a child and your person, your thoughts, your physicality was all violated as a child.
	And as a child, you have no defense.
	You have to surrender.
	You have to surrender because you have no power, no strength, no legal independence or anything like that.
	And your brain, of course, is still very young.
	So, rather than saying, I mean, it's just an invitation, right, to sort of reframe things, rather than saying, well, I'm naive and easily manipulated, I just say, some people exploit the survival mechanisms I was forced to adopt as a child, if that makes sense.
	Yeah. So, what happened in your childhood?
	I mean, I do want to talk about what happened last year, but what happened in your childhood that you think had the most effect on you?
	I guess the timeline just stems quite a long sort of distance.
	I don't really know where to start.
	My mother and father they were together for 10 years.
	They were married for I guess three months after that and I guess things turned sort of quite violent.
	Between the two of them, my younger brother was...
	Sorry, they were together for 10 years. They got married and then split up three months after that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, so the marriage was probably like a desperate attempt to save the relationship that failed, right?
	Right. Yeah, I think so.
	My father always worked away on oil rigs.
	So I guess growing up, in the early years, it was more our mother that was around.
	Um, my parents, after the divorce, my mother, she walked out on my brothers and my father.
	Um, yeah, I think she just went on some weird sort of, I don't know, drug or alcohol sort of craze, I guess.
	And, um, yeah, not long after that, my younger brother, he was diagnosed with, um, acute lymphoblastic leukemia.
	So, um, Yeah, my father sort of struggled to, I guess, get us all through that.
	But sorry, your father was away working on oil rigs.
	Your mother went on a bender.
	I don't know if they call it a bender.
	I assume for quite some time.
	So who was taking care of your kids?
	And how old was he at this point?
	So I was seven.
	My younger brother would have been five and my older brother was nine.
	So when that happened, my father sold our family home and moved us up to...
	Just some other places we don't need geography.
	Yeah, so I guess in the earlier years we had nannies.
	So my father would be away working and we would have nannies taking care of us.
	So I guess if you sort of fast forward a couple of years, my brother, he was in remission for leukaemia, so he ended up going, my father ended up sending him back to my mother.
	He thought, I guess, she seemed a little bit more stable.
	So my little brother was there for a couple of years there.
	After that, I was sent to live with her as well, as he'd sort of found another partner and I didn't get along with My stepsisters.
	So, yeah, I lived with my mother from the ages of 11 to about 15.
	And was she, sorry to interrupt, was she more stable?
	Had she gone through any kind of rehab or therapy?
	None at all, no.
	She, yeah, growing up we had...
	She would have all these men around.
	They're always in, you know, bikey clubs or quite violent.
	Yeah, honestly, the different stories I guess I could tell you from that is just crazy.
	She was with a man that went to jail for murder.
	He bludgeoned a lady to death and buried her under a barbecue.
	Yeah, so she was found My mother was engaging with these sorts of people and actively seeking these sorts of people out.
	So growing up, we had these sorts of men.
	Don't they stay in jail? I mean, how was he out?
	Yeah, so she would actively visit him and write to him in jail.
	She had a relationship with this man while he was in jail.
	Yeah, so that was quite weird.
	Did he get out of jail at some point or...?
	I believe he's out now.
	Yeah, but she was sort of, you know, having like physical visits and she had an ongoing relationship with this man for quite some time.
	Yeah, always alcohol-fuelled, so she'd always be...
	Drunk on alcohol in primary school, she would leave the pub and stand outside my school door drunk, picking me up early from school so we could hang out, I guess.
	That was always quite embarrassing, having that parent in primary school.
	I guess growing up, I felt a big part of my life.
	I was more the parent than my mother was a parent to me.
	Well, except a parent without any legal authority or income or independence or ability to sign contracts.
	You can't be a parent.
	I know what you mean by being like a...
	A caretaker of some kind or another, but you can't actually be a parent as a child any more than a parent can be an actual child.
	Yeah, that's true.
	I assume that there was if she's with these, I guess low-lifes might be a phrase that would fit if she was with these dangerous guys.
	And, you know, the alcohol and the violence thing are kind of hand in hand.
	Like I think South Africa banned alcohol for a little while last year and the murder rates dropped like 30%.
	And half the people who were killed are drunk and half the people who kill others are drunk.
	I mean, alcohol and violence are really joined at the hip.
	And if she's drinking a lot, other people are drinking a lot.
	And these are not people who have a lot of impulse control.
	I assume that there was a fair amount of violence in the house.
	Definitely, yeah, definitely.
	We did witness a lot of violence and it was pretty crazy.
	I guess I speak to my counsellor now regarding some things and just realising just how serious the events were that happened.
	I mean, you lived a good portion of your childhood under the threat of abuse, violence and possibly death, right?
	Yes. And some of that would be conscious, right?
	Like some of that might be, you know, you piss off one of your mom's crazy boyfriends and he just wheels off and hits you.
	He may not intend to kill you, you know, but he hits you.
	Others could be, you know, I don't know, they take you out for a car ride and one of them's drunk and you don't know if you're going to make it back alive and just that general chaos, right?
	Or, you know, your tooth is sore but nobody's organized enough to take you to a dentist or anything like that.
	Wow, it's an amazing thing that your brother survived if he did.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	My little brother, yeah, I look up to him, you know, not only going through the leukaemia, but, yeah, the things that, you know, he had to put up with, you know, not just myself and my older brother going through that, but for my little brother to, you know, go through leukaemia at such a young age and to come out of that, the man he is today, it just makes me very proud of him, yeah.
	And did your father know of all of this chaos and potential bloodshed in your mom's environment?
	I'm not sure if he knew to the extent, but yeah, I think he was sort of quite content with the life he'd, you know, picked up with his new wife and, you know, my stepsisters.
	So I think he was I don't know, more or less happy to move on and to, you know, start a fresh life, a more sort of idyllic life with his instant family, yeah.
	Right, right, so...
	Let me just say something here to make sure I don't forget, because I always have these great ideas, and then later I forget to mention them.
	So... With trauma comes freedom.
	And we focus, and you know, that's not unfair, but we focus on the trauma.
	We focus on the trauma.
	And that's important.
	It's important because, you know, we were hurt and abused and neglected and so on.
	But with trauma comes enormous freedom.
	Because it sounds to me like you were just an inconvenience for people who were incredibly selfish and they just threw you in places where you basically, well, they couldn't just abandon you because that would break the law.
	So, they just didn't seem to care about your well-being, your emotional, physical, spiritual needs.
	And that's really traumatic, of course, a very dangerous thing to go through as a child.
	But the great liberty of all of that, the great freedom of that, is that you don't have to care about them at all.
	You know, you pay back in the coin you were paid.
	And if the coin you were paid in from your family of origin is, we don't care about you at all, then there's a great liberation about that.
	Now, the liberation thing kind of comes a little later in life sometimes.
	Like, I know people who've spent, you know, 10 years or more caring for elderly relatives because they care about those elderly relatives, and I respect that.
	I think it's a wonderful thing, you know, if you have a great mom and dad and When you're young and then they get sick or start to lose their minds when they get old, I think as long as you can handle it in a reasonable manner, then taking care of them is a pretty good thing to do because you're kind of repaying coin for coin, right? They gave you gold, you give them back gold.
	But if somebody gives you...
	What they used to call a slug, which was like a fake coin you'd put into a vending machine to get something for free, then they can't ask for gold in return.
	I mean, I guess they can. They always do.
	They say, I gave you gold. It's like, no, no, you gave me gold.
	You gave me garbage. You gave me nothing.
	And so for me, at least, knowing that I don't know how long my father was ill before he died.
	My mother certainly needs outside help, I'm sure, at this time.
	And maybe other family members are giving to her.
	I'm sure she's getting it from somewhere, maybe the government.
	But there's a great freedom.
	And focusing on the trauma alone just makes it feel like nothing but a loss.
	But focusing on the freedom...
	Is something that it doesn't make the wound okay, but it makes it something that gives you a superpower as well.
	I mean, you know, there's this old story from Marvel movies and stuff.
	Like somebody gets an injury and it gives them a superpower.
	Like, you know, the spider bites the guy, Peter Parker, I think his name is, and he gets Spider-Man powers, right?
	And so the wound kind of gives you superpowers.
	And the one thing that I think is important to remember is that, you know, when you're hurt as a child, it does give you a wound, but the wound also gives you a superpower.
	Which is, you don't have to care about the people.
	In fact, I think it's entirely destructive to care about the people who hurt you.
	And I think focusing on the freedom that that gives you to be your own person, to, in a sense, reinvent yourself and to not be bound up by the past, which most people are.
	And sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's a bad thing.
	I just wanted to mention this before I forgot it because it seemed important, or at least I think it's important, is that we feel like we're just a wound and we forget about the fact that the wound gives us superpowers that other people don't have.
	And again, it doesn't make the wound or the wounding okay.
	But it is a side effect that's probably a good thing.
	And it's sort of what I've been reminding people a long time.
	You don't owe moral obligations to people who've abused you.
	And the superpower is really, really important.
	It really does show up a little bit later in life more vividly.
	But it's kind of there the whole time, if you want it.
	Hmm. Thank you.
	Okay, so the hellscape continues.
	You said you were with your mom from 11 to 15.
	And what happened then? Yeah, um...
	I guess things progressively got worse with her drinking and abuse.
	She would, I guess, sit there sometimes just drunk and look at me and if I, I guess, looked at her in the wrong way then things would turn into a physical altercation.
	She would more or less attack me.
	So I guess that resulted in her kicking me out of home, probably a bit younger than 15 years old.
	Well, sorry, just to interrupt again, but that's important.
	Do you know why she attacked you if you looked at her funny?
	It was just the alcohol.
	Like, she would just get really funny on alcohol.
	I'm not sure if it was a paranoia thing or maybe she...
	I realized, you know, I was looking at her in disgust that I can't believe, you know, just looking at her in, you know, pity or disgust that that's how, you know, she wanted to live her life and,
	you know, maybe I can't really speak for her but I can only assume that, you know, maybe she felt some sort of guilt or Yeah, I don't know if she was triggered by the way.
	Yeah, I don't know, Steph.
	I'm not sure. Well, I mean, so I think the general etiology of this is that your mother was hated when she was a child.
	And her entire adult life was managing that hatred, which she had internalized as hatred of herself, right?
	So when you're hated as a child, the way that you survive is to hate yourself so that you prevent yourself from doing whatever actions was triggering the violence that the hatred manifests at.
	So, you know, if you...
	For a lot of times, if you have really brutal people raising you, then...
	Having your own opinion that goes against what they want means that you will get physically attacked.
	And again, as a kid, you don't know if that's going to be all the way to...
	To killing. We evolved as a species in a situation of infanticide.
	I talked about this when I did my tour of Australia back in 2018, that up to half of the babies would be killed.
	There were Aztec gods that demanded child sacrifice.
	Even now in India, about 15 million girls, female babies, are murdered every year.
	This happened, of course, in China under the one-child policy.
	So we, you know, the Holocaust of infants is the entirety of human history.
	It's very new and very rare that children aren't just, or babies aren't just randomly killed for whatever reason.
	And so that makes babies incredibly compliant and conformist to parental needs, to parental pleasures, because throughout most of human history, your life is literally hanging by a thread.
	And... You see this in gulags and concentration camps and long-term violent prison facilities that the prisoners get that hangdog look.
	They're shuffling along, staring at the ground.
	They won't say anything negative to the guards.
	That's just what happens when you're under a state of constant threat.
	Human babies, us, you know, the way we evolved was just, you know, killing babies was like the thing.
	I mean, my God, I mean, even famous philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau took, what, four or five of his kids and put them in an orphanage where they almost certainly died because he just didn't want to be bothered.
	And so babies, you know, our lives were hanging by a thread and it literally could form or die.
	I mean, this is where political power comes from.
	This is where abuse comes from, is that...
	This is the way we evolved. In other words, the babies who didn't massively please their parents in some manner would just die.
	And we have that hardwired into us that to defy or disobey or anger or upset or...
	some major negative experience or even a minor negative experience to parents is to die.
	So your mother grew up hated, I'm sure, and she internalized that hatred and her entire adult life was trying to manage and deal with that self-hatred.
	And she did it through, well, obviously confirming it, letting it run her life, but also she'd fight back in a way by trying to drink it or drug it out of existence, right?
	This self-loathing, this desire to destroy herself.
	And I assume that she was attracted to murderers because she hoped they would kill her.
	Or she was attracted to violent people because she hoped that they would kill her or whatever.
	And so she took the violent and horrible parenting that she was exposed to as a child and she recreated it in the criminal element.
	She recreated it in the drug addiction so that she wasn't in control.
	And so if you would look at her in some manner that was skeptical or hostile or a bit discussed, then you would be siding with...
	Her parents, and you'd be siding with her self-hatred that she'd internalized.
	And so she would attack you as a response.
	Now, she couldn't attack her parents.
	She couldn't attack the big, brutal guys she was with, although she probably sometimes tried to when they were both drunk.
	Yeah. But she couldn't do much damage to them relative to their physical size and strength.
	But she could attack you because you were a child.
	And so all of that frustrated anger at her own abusive parents, her own abusive partners, her own abusive self would come out in that, you know, if she could drink her self-hatred into oblivion, then she could feel okay for a little bit.
	And if she could brutalize you, if you looked at her skeptically, thus rousing her self-hatred, her conscience buried deep within, then yeah, she's going to attack you.
	And that's another dirty secret.
	The secret is dirty, not that we're dirty, but it's a dirty secret that the moment you try and bring any kind of judgment or ethics or morality or in particular responsibility.
	To abusive people, they will attack you.
	And historically, that would usually mean kill you because historically, and I don't mean sort of recent history, but evolutionarily speaking, it was never a crime to kill a baby.
	In fact, sometimes it was demanded by ritual.
	So to kill an offspring was...
	And that's the funny thing.
	I mean, the feminists complaining about the bad treatment of women throughout history and I can certainly understand where they're coming from in some areas and in some cultures, but infanticide was like all over the place and was only very recently even remotely considered a crime, but you couldn't kill an adult female without repercussions in certainly Western societies for thousands of years.
	So yeah, I just sort of wanted to point that out, that the moment you look at her, you arouse her self-hatred, her conscience.
	She experiences a negative emotion, and all she does when she is experiencing a negative emotion is She either complies with the brute if he's bigger, she drugs her feelings if they're within her, or she attacks someone if they're weaker.
	Yeah. And I would assume that at this point she was basically just a machine, not a person with any kind of real free will or choice.
	That's correct, yeah.
	Which doesn't mean she's got no responsibility of the matter, but by the time you knew her, she was, I would assume, almost certainly beyond any kind of rational recovery.
	Okay, so, sorry, 15, where did she put you?
	Yeah, so, just if I rewind, back at 11, she got me, like, drunk on alcohol for the first time, and it was You know, gave me a joint of marijuana.
	So at that age, I was sort of, you know, experiencing things that, you know, I guess if I were to ever have a child, that would never, ever, ever happen.
	So just fast forward to, sorry, back to 15.
	I am 14, 15.
	I was kicked out of home.
	My older brother, he was, I was 16, 17, he came with me.
	So I'd left school at that age and we lived in a tent for a little while.
	Yeah, I put myself through, I guess, a pre-apprenticeship in a trade.
	Wait, so sorry, you were basically homeless at this point, right?
	Yeah, we lived in a tent in a caravan park.
	So lots of people knew that there were a bunch of kids in a tent, right?
	Did anyone do anything or help about?
	No, not. Did they invite you in for meals at least?
	Did they maybe give you a little money?
	Not that I remember.
	I remember my brother.
	Breaking into a school canteen and, you know, taking food because I was too young to get any sort of benefit and he just sort of started working, you know, just so we could, I guess,
	get on our feet. So, yeah, we had friends, you know, the same age as us, but, yeah, I guess we didn't have anyone to Yeah.
	Wow. Just sort of did it on our own.
	Yep. Wow.
	I'm so sorry.
	And that widens the circle of liberty from your own parents and extended relatives, aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever it is, to that whole social environment.
	Because you were in a social environment.
	You weren't like camping in the middle of nowhere, right?
	You weren't like, nobody can find us.
	We were completely alone. You were in, as you said, a caravan park, right?
	So you were in a social environment and nobody did anything.
	Nobody called social services.
	Nobody called children's aid.
	Nobody called a social worker.
	And, you know, whether that would have been good or bad, I don't know.
	But that's the general thing that people do, right?
	I mean, a decent person, which is like one phone call, right?
	One freaking phone call.
	It's not like somebody's asking you to give a kidney, right?
	Yeah. Yeah.
	Yeah, I... The sort of timeline of that, and I think my counsellor, she talks about it, is something happening with your fight-or-flight in your brain, your frontal cortex, I think it was.
	If you're in, if you're in sort of, you know, like, if you're in flight mode all the time, it You know, you have issues retaining memories or having a timeline.
	Yeah, that's the hippocampus.
	Yeah, yeah, certainly when you're in...
	When your cortisol levels are raised, your adrenaline is pumping, then your memories...
	Associations seem to form, but memories, specific memories, your brain kind of shields you from that.
	Yeah, so there was a time that I had a fight with one of her boyfriends and...
	She actually had me removed by some police.
	I guess that was a bit of a betrayal.
	She'd pick this big blacky dude over her own flesh and blood.
	I guess that resulted at 14, 15 in me spending a night in a holding cell in the police station because the police weren't I was a juvenile, they weren't able to let me out into the street and I didn't have anywhere else to go.
	So I was basically told by somebody in the government, I'm too old to become a state of the ward, but I'm too young to live independently.
	Yen to sort of go off on my own.
	So I was put in touch with the St.
	John of God Youth Hostel.
	And yeah, I sort of stayed there for a little while and went off and rented my own house after that, not long after that.
	And what did you use for money to rent the house with?
	By that stage, I was able to get...
	A friend's mother to sign a form to sort of declare that she would be in some form of guardian which then enabled me to get some sort of benefit while I was still studying.
	I did a pre-trade course so I was on You know, a benefit in studying, and then that led me into full-time employment.
	Yeah, again, the timeline is all a bit mumbled in my head, but that was Sort of 15 and a half to 16 years old.
	I was working full-time by then in trade, yeah.
	Wow, okay. And is that the sort of closing of the major chapter on your, and I know we've really sprinted through the history, but is that the closing of the major chapter on your dependence on your mum?
	Yeah. In the way of dependence, yes.
	Yeah, definitely. There'd obviously been ongoing drama, you know, for the sort of next few years, but I chose to, you know, go and live my own life.
	But yeah, obviously, my little brother, still living with her, there was, you know, still contact and...
	Yeah, dealing with issues associated around that contact and my little brother being at home still.
	Yeah, that definitely maintained its momentum.
	Right, right. And I guess relatively briefly, how did your mom's life play out after sort of 15, 16 for you?
	Yeah. It definitely didn't get any better.
	Yeah, it sort of stayed the same.
	Yeah, she had a child later in life, so I have a younger sister now.
	I think, if anything, that might have Helped in one way, but it's still unfortunate.
	I know she still drinks and, you know, now there's a little girl that, you know, has to grow up with the same thing my brothers and I grew up with.
	But that's, I guess, another moral thing I struggle with is to, you know, how involved do you get with aiding, you know, aiding your little sister?
	Yeah, so things...
	Things definitely got worse.
	She's had a child now, but...
	And how old is the child?
	She's four or five years old now.
	Wow. Amazing that the body can actually still produce a baby after all of that.
	Yes. Alcohol and stress and all that, right?
	Wow. Yeah, it's crazy.
	Yeah, she was like 42, I think, when she fell pregnant.
	And is she still, I mean, did she get most of her money from these men or does she work or how did that play?
	No, I think she always just got money off of, I guess, you know, the whole single mother, you know, government handouts.
	Oh, right, right, right. Yes.
	And that could have been another reason why she had a kid, right?
	Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
	Definitely. She's getting too old to attract men with resources, but she can still force the taxpayer to subsidize her through becoming a mom, right?
	Yes, definitely.
	Yeah, I know.
	And I assume she's not with the guy who fathered the child or anything like that?
	No, she never was.
	He was, again, another, you know, in a bikey gang and, yeah, she ended up getting her name and identity changed because of how much of a threat this person was.
	So, yeah, she, I guess, again, relied on the government The taxpayers' money to help her change her name and her identity and move to a different part of the state.
	She came into a bit of money from a late uncle of hers and bought a house for herself, which was one positive thing, I suppose.
	My little sister has no idea who her father is.
	But the father was the guy she had to flee from?
	That's right, yeah. Right, right.
	Okay. All right. And how's your life been?
	I guess we sort of got to 17 or so and we got to 11 years.
	And how has it been since then?
	Yeah, I guess from that take on, you know, growing up, I always looked at my mother and swore that I'd never be like her.
	And watching her struggle, I guess that pushed me into having...
	You know, my own independence financially and I took up a career in welding or boiler making and that has been quite good for me.
	Yeah, I was moved from the other side of the country With quite a large company, they, you know, employed me and put me on at 21 years of age after, you know, quite a few years of me being in the trade.
	So, yeah, I stepped into a bit of a corporate role at 21 and that was really great for me, I think, just to, again, I guess that whole liberating freedom to Get away from, you know, all those sorts of issues and step into, yeah, like a decent career where I had financial independence and associated with, you know, more sort of positive people.
	Yeah, but in the way of alcohol and those sorts of things, I definitely steer clear of, you know, of that lifestyle.
	So, yeah, I really...
	I'm sorry, I forgot to ask as well, when you were 11 and your mother gave you pot and alcohol, did she continue to do that?
	Was it more of a one-time thing?
	Yeah, yeah, she just seemed the norm.
	Before I'd left school, yeah, she seemed to, you know, like it was an okay thing for our friends to, more so probably my older brother and his friends, they were Leave school on a lunch break or whatever, and they would all go home and, you know, smoke weed.
	My mum would be there with, you know, her friends drinking throughout the day, and it was a bit of a novelty thing, I think, for, you know, yeah, for us growing up was our mum was, you know, that...
	She's the party girl, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	It always amazes me again that your friends who are over there don't go back to their parents and say, oh yeah, by the way, right?
	And the parents are like, whoa, that's not good, right?
	Yeah. Okay. I mean, they probably did that with their own kids, but not for you, right?
	Right. Okay.
	All right. Okay, so 21, you get into the corporate world, so that means that you're more sort of project manager or, you know, desk worker rather than direct welder, or what does that mean?
	Yeah, so I was moved to, you know, like, yeah, I was in business development and technical, sort of more of a technical type role.
	So I'd engage with, you know, these sorts of companies and look at their welding processes and how they would conduct their business and, you know, do things to help You know, further their productivity, lower their overheads and run, you know, run more efficient companies.
	Right, right. Wow. Congratulations.
	That's very impressive.
	Very good. Certainly had a better career than I did when I was 21.
	So good for you. That's great.
	That's great. And then?
	Yeah, I was in that role for four years and I was approached by, I guess, quite a few companies.
	I ended up Taking another role in a similar industry, just with a little bit more money.
	And, you know, so I relocated, I guess, two hours north of where I originally was.
	And, you know, I was in that role up until, I guess, the beginning of last year.
	Yeah, I sort of, I think that corporate role It might have been a little bit too much for me.
	Yeah, so I don't know if I just didn't get along with, you know, I guess the people a bit further up the ladder.
	I questioned things From a moral standpoint, I'm with you there.
	The further you move up, I've got a whole novel about this called The God of Atheists, but a lot of times the further you move up in a business structure, the worse it gets morally.
	That's been a pretty consistent experience for me.
	You're probably not the first or the last person to notice that particular layer of hell that's above middle management.
	Yeah, I guess while COVID kicked off, I took the opportunity to have a bit of a gap year essentially and go out and worked on a few cattle stations and chased some sheep around and I had a great time last year and I recently Stepped back into the trade to further my career in weld inspection and the sort of more supervision type roles.
	I much prefer the science behind welding and the welding standards than I think the more sort of corporate side is tempting.
	I guess, easy way out, you know, the salary and the company vehicles and whatnot.
	I find the brain much more stimulated, you know, doing the sort of technical things with the welding side of things.
	Right, right. Okay. Okay.
	So the career is doing well.
	Congratulations. And personal life?
	Yeah. Yeah, I guess throughout my earlier teenage years I had a boyfriend for nearly eight years from the age of 15 and yeah, I don't think he had a great upbringing either and things were quite tumultuous between the two of us.
	Yeah, I guess in a way I'd recreated You know, my mother's, you know, sort of relationships there, so things did get violent and quite bad between the two of us.
	Yeah, so that ended a couple of years ago.
	Since then, I met a really great man.
	But again, I think, you know, I sort of self-sabotage You know, positive relationships might come into my life and, yeah, I just sort of seem to not do too great in, you know, having a sustainable, positive relationship.
	Well, sure. I mean, that's the undertow, right?
	Which is our genes scan our environment and say, what gives us the greatest chance to reproduce?
	And given that the environment was consistent and universal for all intents and purposes during our evolution, they're just like, okay, well, so violent guys give us the best chance to reproduce.
	So let's have you attached to violent guys because that's who wins, right?
	We're in a violent environment.
	And of course, they don't know that, you know, three blocks over there might be a really nice guy who's peaceful and reasonable and wonderful.
	So they're just like, okay, so we reproduce through violence, so let's do the violent thing.
	The genes don't care whether it's peaceful or violent, they just care that there's more.
	They just care that they reproduce.
	I mean, the photocopier doesn't care if you're copying a manifesto or You are copying your butt or a picture of the Mona Lisa or anything.
	Just copy, copy, copy, right?
	It doesn't really care. Whatever works, right?
	So yeah, it's kind of natural that you would be drawn towards that.
	Any genes that didn't do that when we were evolving just didn't make it to us, right?
	So again, that's sort of beyond our power.
	We can influence it, but certainly when we're young, it's to a large degree beyond our power to adjust that too much.
	You know, I had my draws towards highly intelligent, talented, under-functioning women, right?
	Women who had a lot of talent and ambition but couldn't, just couldn't get things done.
	I knew a woman, I dated a woman who was, you know, very smart, fantastic at math, very ambitious, but she had crippling exam anxiety, right?
	So it's like a lot of potential.
	Just a big underperformer.
	I dated a woman who wanted to be a filmmaker and was pretty skilled at that area, but just, you know, was afraid of making phone calls.
	And it's like just this high potential, great skill, great intelligence, but just, you know, crippling underperformance stuff as a whole.
	That was sort of my thing. When I was younger, because my mother, very intelligent, you know, very good communicator, and she switched later in life from German to English and spoke with very little accent and was incredibly fluent and was very good at helping me edit my first couple of novels and just really smart, but just, you know, crippling, under-functioning in terms of actual real-world stuff.
	And I remember when I met my wife, I'm just like, oh, you're really competent.
	Like, you're really good at...
	Yeah, you're just good at basic life stuff, just...
	Yeah, I'll make that call.
	Yeah, I'll have that. I'll deal with that.
	I'll have that confrontation if necessary.
	And I was just like, oh man, it is a consummation doubly to be wished.
	Anyway, so yeah, it's kind of hard.
	It's kind of hard to unplug from those early patterns for sure.
	I mean, again, I don't blame myself for that or even necessarily psychology.
	It's just that the genes are scanning and saying, well, you are definitely the product of reproductive success.
	So whatever that template is, let's do that right now.
	When you did meet your wife and you sort of saw that she was able to execute those things, was it strange for you to take that in or to accept?
	No, I loved it.
	Because I paid my dues trying to prop up under-functioning women.
	I paid my dues for some time.
	And I did that because I thought that I mean, I did that because I thought that the turnaround was just around the corner, right?
	I mean, you've probably had this with people in your life.
	Things go badly.
	And I mean, I was never really abused or anything like that, but it was...
	I'm pretty good at propping people up because I have sort of an excess of energy and, you know, I could almost say an excess of competence or whatever it is.
	I'm pretty good in the business world and in the friendship world.
	So what happens is I pump a lot of energy into people and I think that they're just about to break through.
	You know, like if you're a doctor, somebody's ill, you put a lot of medicine into them and they get better and then you They don't need you to be their doctor.
	So I was sort of like, oh, okay, so somebody's, you know, they've hurt themselves, but, you know, like a rehab guy, you do these stretches and then you'll be fine, you know, and all of that, right?
	And I, you know, was wounded and sort of pulled myself out of it.
	So I have this kind of access of energy or competence or life force or whatever it is.
	It's not an access to me, but it's an access in what most people have.
	So I was just like, okay, well, I've got this access.
	You're a good person.
	You've got talent and ambition and I had talent and ambition and people invested in me and I soared because of it.
	So I'll just invest in you and you'll soar and we'll get along well together.
	But it just didn't work out that way.
	It just worked out that they never got any better.
	I got frustrated. They got frustrated.
	And you can't transfer that stuff.
	I mean, you can't. I mean, I didn't have exam anxiety.
	I actually, when I was in high school, I voluntarily took exams.
	I didn't even have to just because I thought it was good practice for college.
	I did so well in English, as you can imagine, that I didn't actually have to take any exams because my marks were so high.
	I couldn't possibly fail and they just said, don't bother.
	And I'm like, no, no, it's good practice.
	You know, life is about a lot of times you've got to take your exams, right?
	Like you're on a show and the host turns hostile towards you or it starts off hostile when you expect it to not be.
	That's your exam, right?
	So I was like, well, I don't have exam anxiety, so...
	I can talk things through with you and, you know, then you won't have exam anxiety because, you know, helping people you're in a relationship with seems like a good and decent thing to do.
	But it just never really took.
	It never really changed.
	And so I would end up just kind of bleeding off my excess energy to try and prop people up.
	And it would end up, you know, and it's funny too because in the novel The Fountainhead, that's kind of what Howard Rourke does with Peter Keating.
	And, you know, I should have recognized that from the book.
	Getting off the page and into the life is sometimes a tricky thing to do.
	I'm good at the other way, right?
	Getting off the life and into the page and writing books.
	So when I met my wife-to-be and she's very competent, she was very good at her profession, she had a condo and very well organized and almost nothing phases her and she just gets things done.
	It wasn't odd.
	It was just like, oh, great. Fantastic.
	I now have the energy to do things in the world that formerly I was trying to do things with a person as a whole.
	Or it wasn't just a person like in the business world and all that.
	And so, yeah, that was not...
	But again, I went through therapy, right?
	So I did like a year and a half of therapy for like three hours a week.
	And I did like 10 to 12 hours of homework and journaling and stuff like that.
	And so from that standpoint, that was sort of the before and after stuff.
	And yeah, it was not a negative for me at all.
	There was no like, wow, this is unusual.
	I mean, I got that it was unusual, but it was just like, wow, this is great.
	And it's been a huge boon to my life.
	Wow. I could only hope that, yeah, I can be that, you know, one day.
	Soon I hope, definitely, yeah.
	Well, I mean, certainly professionally you already are, right?
	I mean, professionally you've done very well and, you know, very, very impressive stuff and so that's good.
	So we just have to figure out the other thing.
	So you said you were in a relationship with this, was it eight years?
	Did I get that right? Yeah, yeah, more or less eight years.
	Yeah. And when did that end?
	Around sort of 2023, I think, yeah.
	It ended, so sort of 15 to 23?
	Yes. Wow.
	And how did it end?
	On what grounds? The police got involved again.
	They got involved when I was 17.
	He had basically nearly split my eye socket and things were just not great.
	Was he a drinker or a druggy or is that where some of the violence came from?
	Yeah, I'd found out, and again, being this sort of naive, like, you know, it's not sort of good to call myself naive, but more so, I guess, gullible.
	No, no, no, he was just, he was exploiting the defences you needed to survive your mother.
	Yeah, I didn't realise, you know, the extent of his drug use, and yeah, one day he, you know, just sort of Opened up to me or you know showed me the things that he'd been doing and I had no idea.
	You know, that he'd been...
	I mean, was it hard drugs, too, or just a lot of softer drugs?
	Yes. Yeah, hard drugs.
	Opioids, heroin, cocaine?
	Oh, yeah, like spade.
	Meth? Yeah, yeah, and like intravenous.
	I think the teeth issues would be a clue, but maybe he didn't know.
	No, like, it wasn't...
	Like that, which is quite, you know, I sort of had that stereotype in my head as well.
	But yeah, I was none the wiser.
	It didn't seem, you know, I just didn't pick it.
	It was weird. Okay, okay.
	So he was violent and you said he sort of cracked your orbital eye socket, like the bone?
	Yeah, that's right.
	So the police came.
	You called the police? No, I was actually concussed and I woke up a few hours later to a phone call.
	It was my older brother calling me.
	I'm not sure if it was just some sort of weird feeling he had and I told him what had happened and he spoke to my ex and basically demanded he take me to the hospital.
	Oh, so his ex said, yeah, yeah, I punched her in.
	Yeah, I'd sort of explained to my brother that, yeah, I couldn't talk.
	He'd knocked my teeth out as well, so I was sort of I guess crying and a bit concussed from what had happened.
	So my brother, you know, said put him on the phone and yeah, that was sort of 1am in the morning and yeah, after that he took me to the hospital.
	I'd been vomiting all night because of the concussion and yeah, I guess that's where sort of the triage nurse had Sort of, yeah, I think had helped me.
	Do you remember it was the blow with an implement or with his fist?
	He said it was his fist, but it was, you know, from my cheek down to my teeth.
	So, yeah, I can't be sure.
	I don't know. He said it was just his fist, and he said he didn't do it that hard, but obviously that was a bit of a lie.
	The white in my eye was just all the blood vessels were popped, and it stayed like that for a good two months, so it was with quite a lot of force.
	Sorry, I mean, also the teeth thing, I mean, that's a hell of a thing to get those replaced.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And so did the police charge it?
	I can't.
	Yeah, there was an AVO placed, like a violence order placed on him.
	I don't even know if he had to go to court for it.
	Yeah, because you just broke contact with him at this point, right?
	Yeah, I had sort of moved up to the north part of the state after that had happened.
	And, yeah, while we stopped contact for, you know, sort of six or so months, you know, we'd sort of had got back together probably a year later.
	Oh, you got back together with me?
	Yeah, yeah, it was, again, on and off, you know, for that period of time, but, yeah, I ended up moving back.
	I mean, this is the part, like, I'm having a little bit of trouble with?
	Yeah. What the hell are you doing getting back to, like, help me understand this?
	I know. He could have killed you, right?
	He could have killed you. Yes.
	And it may have come pretty close.
	Definitely, yeah, yeah.
	And you saying, I'm not going to do anything like my mom does, right?
	Right. Yeah. I don't, I still don't understand.
	I'm, you know, trying to work through with my therapist at the moment.
	She says the same thing to me.
	I mean, that's just, I mean, it seemed to me a straight up death wish, right?
	I mean, the guy's almost killed you and you're like, yeah, let's get back together.
	I know it wasn't that simple, but did he approach you?
	Did he contact you and like, I've changed, I'm better, I'm sorry, like that kind of stuff?
	Yeah, he just randomly reached out to me one day and yeah, we just sort of started talking again.
	Were you in a vulnerable, lonely place?
	Just again, trying to understand this boomerang.
	Yeah, so when I moved away When I moved away for the first couple of months, I started feeling, I guess, a bit weird.
	My brother said, because my older brother was up where I was working, I'd ordered a lot of food one day and he said, are you pregnant?
	I said, no, that's ridiculous.
	Yeah, it turned out that I was pregnant, you know, so I had, you know, I was pregnant with his child at 17, just before I turned 18.
	That ended in a termination because, you know, I just didn't...
	Oh, you mean like an abortion, not a miscarriage, right?
	That's right, yeah, yeah.
	So I guess there was that emotional attachment, you know, I guess that's the only sort of thing that I can think of.
	You know, I'd be so stupid to engage, you know, to go back there.
	You know, so that was, I guess, a bit rough.
	So, sorry. So, wait.
	So, after he put you in the hospital, you were pregnant?
	Yeah, I believe so.
	Just not. Not aware of it.
	And then not long after that, I'd moved away, started feeling ill, and I was, yeah, I was pregnant with his child.
	And was this during the six months that you weren't speaking?
	No. So this was, like, I guess at the beginning of that, yeah, yeah.
	And did you abort the second pregnancy?
	Did that end in an abortion too?
	No, so this is a first and only...
	Sorry, I'm losing track of things.
	I thought you, so there was one where there was 17.
	Oh, so sorry. 17 was the age that he put you in the hospital, and that's when you thought you were pregnant, and you had the abortion, and then six months after this, he gets in contact with you.
	This is back when you were 17, right?
	Yeah, sir. Okay, sorry about that.
	My apologies. I'm back with the timeline again.
	Yeah, sorry. And then how did it go when you got back together with him?
	Yeah, it just sort of, yeah, I guess it was good for a couple of months and, you know, things just sort of slipped back to the dysfunctional things just sort of slipped back to the dysfunctional relationship.
	Sorry, I think I've, yeah.
	Yeah, things just sort of slipped back.
	But then it was like another five years that you were going out with this guy on and off, right?
	That's right, yeah.
	When I got moved over to New...
	Sorry, when I got moved over here to the other side of the country, I guess I was over here by myself for a good 18 months to two years.
	I started realising, I guess the further away and the further the timeline got, I started looking back and realising how dysfunctional and how toxic things were and that wasn't the sort of life that I wanted.
	I think the career and the job aspect had a lot of positivity in my life so I was able to focus my time and energy on something good that I would get a good return on.
	So it was easier for me to sort of, you know, cut my ties with him.
	But again, playing into the sort of, not playing in, it's not sort of being easily manipulated or, you know, I'm not sure what it is, but, you know, I was ready to completely have him out of my life.
	I'm not sure if he, you know, realised what was going on.
	You know, he ended up saying, I'm going to move over.
	You know, I want to be with you.
	I want to do this again.
	And I stupidly said yes.
	So yeah, after two years of me being over here and creating quite a positive life and You know, functional life for myself.
	He moved over here and lo and behold...
	Sorry, why do you think...
	What was his motive for moving?
	I mean, was he out of money?
	Did he look at you as somebody to pay the bills?
	Or was he doing better and there was something else?
	I'm not sure if it was a control thing that he knew that, you know, I wasn't, you know...
	The little puppy dog that, you know, would sort of, you know, look up to him and want to sort of do anything to sort of, you know, be in a relationship with him.
	I guess he sort of wasn't feeling, he was feeling less in control regarding, you know, the sort of power he'd had over me.
	So, yeah, I'm not sure if that was his sort of move to, You know, to try and re-establish that.
	I don't understand, you know, the psychology behind, you know, him doing those things.
	I don't know the situation that he was in.
	What was his life like at this time when he moved?
	How was his life outside of you?
	Yeah, I believe he was out working in the mines, you know, earning good money.
	Yeah. Yeah, still sort of lived with his parents.
	Yeah, still living with his parents at that stage or gone back to living with his mum and working in the mining industry.
	So in the way of money, I don't think he saw me as the sort of meal ticket.
	Well, but it was not a fun job in the mines, right, to put it mildly.
	Right. Yeah.
	So when he moved out with you, did he get another job or what did he do?
	Yeah, so when he came over here, because of the industry we were both in and I guess the contacts or the people that I knew, I was able to get him a job.
	I basically said, you know, I'm willing to give this one more chance but I need to sort of You know, I need to see these things happen.
	Yeah, that was short-lived.
	And, you know, a sort of month or so later, he asked to have a package sent to my work.
	He said it was just clothes.
	And I said, that's fine.
	We were sort of living in a share house before I'd got another apartment.
	But it was drugs. Yeah.
	It was drugs.
	What a shock. Yeah, it was enough drugs to, I think, you know, send me to jail for a long time and that was the line he crossed for me and, yeah, that was just, that was it for me.
	I sort of said, look, I'm, you know, after the holidays, yeah.
	We're going our separate ways.
	I don't want to do this anymore.
	So, yeah.
	And it was, you know, I was the bad person for that, I guess.
	But I just, yeah.
	Leaving me in my time of need.
	Oh, yeah, yeah. I bet all the bullshit was hauled out and trotted out and he tried to do anything.
	You know, I've changed.
	It was one slip up. You can't forgive me for one thing.
	Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, everybody knows this sycophantic garbage, but it's very compelling when you're in the face of it.
	But when you're a little bit removed, you're like, yeah, he really tried to play me there, didn't he?
	Yeah. Look, I still struggle.
	I still question, you know, why?
	Why have I accepted those things?
	Or, you know, I regret a lot of things.
	And, you know, I guess I've bled on a lot of people that haven't cut me metaphorically.
	So I do regret a lot of things.
	You know, continuing that relationship is definitely one of them.
	Well, okay, so let's be kind of frank here, right?
	So how handsome was he? Yeah, he was...
	I look at, you know, I sort of, I guess, look back now and think, you know, I'm in no way attracted to him.
	But yeah, he was, you know, quite handsome.
	Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, because you're very good looking yourself, so you make a striking pair, right?
	There's a certain amount of vanity in that, right?
	Yeah. And, you know, you're both each other's arm candy, so to speak, right?
	Yeah. And the reason it's good to know is that that's your susceptibility, right?
	And I bet you there were a lot of decent guys who looked at you and said, well, she's smart, successful, and pretty, and she's with this guy.
	Oh, Lord. Yeah.
	It's a great way to make men cynical about women, although, again, you were a kid and you were in a violent situation, so I kind of understand it.
	But it's good to know your susceptibility to good looks, right?
	Yeah. Right.
	Because I imagine that was one of the curses of your mother, too, right?
	That your mother was pretty.
	And this is why she could bounce around all of this monstrous mess, right?
	Right. Definitely.
	Yeah. Okay. So, you dump this guy, you're 23, good riddance to bad rubbish, as they used to say.
	And then what? Yeah, I, um...
	Yeah, I sort of...
	It always... I swore to myself that I would never have a sort of relationship with anybody that I'd met through work or through that sort of circle.
	You know, the way things played out, I met a man a little bit older than me.
	He's sort of 12 years older than me.
	I met him through, I guess, a large job that he was working on and, you know, he started a platonic friendship which led to a relationship.
	You know, that was, yeah, he's a Great man.
	He's the one that actually introduced me to you and your podcasts and just his outlook on life is quite positive.
	I'm so old. Sorry, just go ahead.
	Yeah, he's a really great guy.
	Again, he sort of, I think, had his issues with a relationship previous to meeting me and some things sort of came between he and I regarding my past and His ex actually fell pregnant.
	So, yeah, like three months of us being together, he opened up and told me that his ex-partner was pregnant with his child and that was just a bit of a roller coaster, you know, mentally. I struggled a lot with that.
	I think, you know, that was just sort of a bit hard.
	Is the baby born?
	Did that help? Yeah, yeah.
	Oh good, one made it. Good, all right.
	So that's complicated, right?
	Yeah. And I guess it means he'd had sex with his ex right before he got together with you or sort of close time frame?
	Yeah. Yeah, like within a month.
	Wow. Unprotected sex with the ex, new girlfriend.
	You know, that's a bit of a red flag, you know, all due respect to the guy who introduced you to my show, but I gotta be fair, right?
	Yeah, I do.
	It is something that I, you know, think about and yeah, definitely.
	And he's on the hook now for like 20 years, right?
	That's right, yeah. It's going to be a bit of a challenge.
	I mean, unless he's super rich, right?
	It's going to be a bit of a challenge getting resources for a family you might want, right?
	And I think that's, you know, he sort of has that outlook now.
	He, you know, doesn't want to hold me back, you know, because of the commitments he now has.
	And I think that makes him, you know, quite a great...
	A great person is how committed he is to ensuring his...
	Can he afford two families?
	Yeah, definitely.
	I'd say definitely in the job that he is in.
	It wouldn't be a stretch.
	I don't see, no.
	Okay. I feel bad even saying that or looking at him in a sort of resourceful way like that.
	Why? I don't understand.
	I mean, the whole reason we have sexual attraction is so we can have babies and babies take a huge amount of resources.
	I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
	Like, it's not like you're, oh, my romantic lust for this man should not be colored by any sense of resources.
	It's like, well, the romantic lust only exists because babies need resources.
	That's the entire purpose.
	And now it's not like you look at someone as a walking wallet, but the idea that we can take away Like as a woman, that you can take away your need for resources from your sexual desire is saying, well, I only want one side of the coin, not the other.
	Right. There is no, I mean, you could have platonic male friends if you don't care about resources, but when it comes to someone you're considering to be the father of your children, resources matter.
	They really matter. Because, you know, again, just what you're biologically primed for.
	It's like a man saying, I'm completely indifferent to the level of attraction that I have for, like, the physical attraction I have for my partner.
	You know, what, you want to love some spirit of hers?
	It's like, okay, fine, then have her as a friend.
	But if you're looking, at the moment it turns sexual, then sex means babies, and babies need resources.
	So, and, you know, if it turns sexual, and as a man you want kids, then...
	Sexual means fertility, means fertility signals, means youth and decent genes and all of that and the personality matters and all that.
	So I don't know. I just, to me, it's a deal.
	It's a deal. Fertility for resources.
	And that's where life comes from.
	That's where if you want all these, oh, I want a guy in my life and I don't want to think about his resources, it's like, okay, well, The fact that all of our ancestors thought about resources is the whole reason we're here.
	So it doesn't do much service to all their sacrifices if we just say, well, to hell with resources.
	You know, it doesn't matter.
	It's like, well, it does. It does matter.
	It does matter. I mean, in terms of just stuff for your kids, it matters.
	You know, can they get braces if they need them?
	Can they get decent healthcare?
	Can they get, you know, regular dental checkups?
	What if they need glasses?
	What if they get sick? You know, we need resources.
	Kids need resources. They just do.
	And, you know, what if they take up an expensive hobby?
	Can they perceive that they want to ride horses or be a ballet dancer or whatever, right?
	I mean, is that possible? It matters.
	That's important.
	And so, yeah, I mean, the idea that we can separate these things, I think, is...
	It's kind of foolish. We should enjoy these things and relish these things because, you know, I mean, if he enjoys your looks and that's a factor for him, as it is, and I'm sure you enjoy his looks and that's a factor for you, but those are genetic markers.
	Hopefully we don't choose our platonic friends on the basis of how physically attractive they are, but other than, you know, maybe you have more in common, but as far as fertility for resources go, we should enjoy that.
	We should absolutely Enjoy that as part of what makes a family work because, you know, as I said before, you should choose the father of your children like your future children get the deciding vote, right?
	And if he's broke, they might say, well, that's kind of stressful and it means I can't do that much and...
	It means I'm not going to have anything in common with the wealthier kids who probably will end up more successful, be good contacts, higher IQ, that kind of stuff.
	So they might say, you know, mom-to-be, we'd really appreciate it if the guy had a little bit more resources and all of that.
	But, you know, again, it's not the only deciding factor, but I think just saying it's bad to think about, I think, is not realistic.
	I mean, you're going to think about it, whether you like it or not.
	You can either embrace it or not, but just saying it's bad, saying that there's an essential part of you that cares about the future of your children that's somehow bad or wrong for doing that.
	And it's like, no, that's not bad or wrong.
	I guess it might be just the stigma attached, you know, the way I sort of, you know, I guess you look at sort of...
	How some women look at resources or...
	Like the gold digger thing, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, but the gold digger thing has nothing to do with raising kids.
	You're not a gold digger if you want your future children to get food, right?
	The gold digger is the woman who gets an older guy she has no intention of having kids with, she brings nothing to the table except looks and sexuality, and she takes money.
	Okay. And, you know, money for resources is the oldest play.
	It's in all the animal kingdom.
	Resources for fertility.
	And the male display of, you know, there's birds that make those cute little areas for the females to look at, and they do their dance, and that's really, oh, that's kind of cute, right?
	But, you know, fertility for resources, that's why the peacock has those giant ass feathers, right?
	Because it says, hey, look how successful I am.
	I can have these and still survive, and I'm really strong, right?
	So... I mean, that's...
	But so, yeah, the gold digger thing is a totally different thing.
	If you want resources so that your kids do well, yeah.
	I mean, yes, absolutely.
	Absolutely. You know, I mean, if I didn't have resources...
	I wouldn't be able to homeschool, right?
	And that's really good for my daughter to homeschool, right?
	So wanting resources because you want your kids to have a good life or at least not be broke and stressed when they're little, that's not being a gold digger because it's not fundamentally for you, right?
	It's not like you're saying, well, I want to marry this guy so I can get diamond studded tennis bracelets and Play at the club in a short skirt and flirt with the tennis instructor.
	That's not what you're doing.
	What you're doing is just saying, yeah, it'd be nice if my kids could have some level of material comfort and we have options.
	It'd be nice if you want to homeschool your kids.
	It'd be nice if a husband can afford me being home homeschooling the kids.
	That's not for you.
	That's for the kids. You're not a gold digger if you're trying to benefit your children's lives, are you?
	No, that's true.
	Yeah, good point. The gold digger is the gold for you to wear that's useless and vainglorious and nonsense, right?
	But it's just like, it'd be great if my kid's crooked teeth could be fixed with orthodontics.
	That's not you being a gold digger, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I guess he has some, you know, he's quite apprehensive, you know, about situations, you know, in the past and sort of things that have happened.
	You know, I think he's a little bit apprehensive about letting me into his son's life because, you know, because of some of the things that have happened and I get that that's understandable.
	Yeah, that's way too vague. Way too vague.
	I don't know what any of that means. First of all, technically you can't be apprehensive about the past because apprehensive is about the future.
	How old is his son?
	His son now is four in October.
	Yeah. Oh, like your stepsister?
	Half-sister? Yeah. Yes, half-sister.
	Yeah, very similar in age.
	You've got a lot of kids around you that you have complicated relationships with.
	It'd be nice to have some kids around you that you didn't have complicated relationships with, but that is what it is, right?
	So you've been with this guy for four years, right?
	Oh, three years and about? Yeah.
	Yeah, sort of on and off again with the sort of, you know, maintaining functional relationships for myself.
	Yeah, we've, we sort of stopped contact for a little while.
	His job, I guess, has been quite strenuous and You know, there have been issues.
	No stress does not drive couples apart.
	No, there's no, you know, other than kidnapping or whatever, like there's no external circumstances that dictates that you get further apart, right?
	So stress, you know, if you have stress in your work, there's no reason why that can't bring you closer to your partner, right?
	You know, they're your safe harbor, they talk things through with you, they give you perspective and you draw closer.
	There's no reason why disagreement can't bring you closer to your partner.
	You have a big disagreement and you talk things through, you figure things out, and you then have a successfully resolved disagreement in the rear view, which brings you closer together and makes your relationship more secure because now you know you can disagree and still love each other.
	Right? So that's, you know, other than like, you know, you had an affair or you got addicted to drugs, but there's no, there's nothing like, oh, work stress broke us up.
	It's like, no, it didn't. No, it didn't.
	No. He, I guess, sort of edged closer to his ex fully having the son.
	Yeah, that sort of put a lot of doubt and worry in my mind.
	I started questioning, you know, things like, who am I in this man's life?
	Have I been the other woman?
	And, you know, how are things going to change once Once the baby comes into the life and into the world, who am I? I'm not sure.
	Yeah, I'm not sure.
	Seems like something you should know.
	Yeah. Seems like something he should tell you, right?
	They, like, I think they sort of, you know, in the way of her beliefs and his beliefs, she's, you know, like, full suffragette.
	You know, more sort of feminist.
	Oh, she's a feminist who don't need no man, but she needs his child support, right?
	Right. From what I gather, that's what it's sort of been like.
	The relationship had fallen apart, you know, for quite a long time.
	And, you know, he told me that they...
	Hang on, hang on. Let's back up a little here, right?
	Yeah. I mean, let's talk female to female, right?
	I'll put on the persona, right?
	It's just us girls, right?
	Come on, come on, come on, come on.
	A woman...
	The guy's got some money, right?
	He's doing pretty well professionally.
	You said he can afford two families, right?
	Okay. So let's look at this nakedly, so to speak, right?
	So a woman...
	Feels a guy who has a lot of resources slipping through her fingers, right?
	Right. And what does she do?
	Sperm jacks him.
	She gets pregnant!
	Yeah. You know, this is like the oldest scam in the known universe, right?
	Right. Right?
	Yeah. Hey, Bitcoin's up.
	I remember you talking about Bitcoin a long time ago.
	Let's get together this week, right?
	Whatever, right? It's not all women, you know, but, you know, come on.
	I mean, this is so obvious, right?
	I mean, I hate to sort of point it out that way, but it's blindingly obvious, right?
	Yeah. So, that's, you know, they broke up probably for some reasons of incompatibility or whatever.
	And then she got pregnant.
	Oh, look, I've got a meal ticket for 20 years, right?
	Right. Yeah, that caused, I guess, a lot of, you know, I questioned the relationship a lot, you know, once that had happened, and I think I'd pushed him away Um, you know, because of all these sort of negative thoughts in my head.
	Um, yeah.
	I mean, listen, I get, I get, I don't mean to sort of ride roughshod over the, your detailed female internalities, you know, cause you know, I get it.
	I mean, you're, you're, you're a female and, and I get all of that, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to bring some savage masculine energy to the conversation here.
	Cause I assume that's why you called, right?
	So, so look, so from, from 24 to 28, um, He's been kind of dicking you around, and he's not committed to the point where he's going to marry you, right?
	He's not saying, yep, we have an absolutely rock-solid future together.
	I just need to tidy up these loose ends.
	Let's get married. Because, you know, you want kids, right?
	I assume you've told him that you want kids, right?
	Yeah. Okay, so what the hell is he doing?
	He's taking close to a half decade of your prime fertility years, and what have you got?
	Yeah. What have you got?
	Do you have a commitment from the man?
	No. No. So my patience with him is not there.
	Right. Because he knows, if he listens to this show, he knows I've told a million men over the years, do not screw with a woman's fertility years.
	If you don't want to commit to her, turn her loose.
	Right? Because now you're 28, right?
	Again, 28, not ancient, right?
	You understand, right? But you know, you're concerned and rightly so.
	SMV is slipping, slipping away.
	Sorry, say again? Oh, the sexual market value is, yeah, definitely depleting.
	Well, I mean, again, you've got time, right?
	I'm glad you're calling now, not like 38, right?
	But what's he doing?
	He knows you want kids.
	He's not committing. He's not turning you loose.
	So help me understand how this isn't just using you in a way, right?
	Yeah. So I guess he wants to stay, you know, stable, consistent, you know, like me being stable and consistent and not having dramas like things that had sort of happened late last year.
	We'll get to that. We'll get to that.
	But here's the thing, right? So he wants you, but he wants you to be different.
	Just more stable.
	No, no, no. Hang on.
	He wants you, but he wants you to be different.
	These two things don't fit.
	It's like you've got to pick a lane.
	If he wants you, he wants you for who you are.
	Now, does that mean you'll never change in the future?
	Sure, you'll change for sure, but you've got to just love someone for who they are, right?
	As opposed to, I want you, but you've got to be different.
	And until you are different in a way that only I will tell you, I'm not going to commit.
	But at the same time, I'm not going to turn you loose so that you can have someone who will accept you for who you are.
	I guess it might be similar to you were talking earlier regarding the women that you dated when you were younger and You know, they just sort of didn't have everything squared away, so they weren't quite for you.
	Didn't have everything squared away?
	No, that wasn't really.
	No, my issue was I was just projecting.
	I was like, well, I overcame obstacles and people helped me overcome obstacles, so I would just help these women overcome obstacles.
	I'll pay it forward and they'll get what they want just as I got what I want and everything will be great.
	And I just unconsciously, of course, chose women that would not overcome obstacles.
	And just mistaking the world for myself, that's kind of what youth is.
	But no, no, no, because you can't be with someone and say, well, yeah, let's have a relationship, let's have sex, let's be exclusive, but I'm not going to commit until you're fundamentally different.
	That's not good. That's not, because you feel rejected, right?
	You feel, you are rejected. And you're rejected in the worst way, because if you're just openly rejected, then you say, oh, that hurts my heart, but I'll pick myself up and I'll move on or find someone else, right?
	But this hovering around stuff, this may be sort of someday...
	If dot dot dot, clause after clause after clause, it gives him a perpetual out, right?
	And you then spend four years feeling somewhat tortured and rejected because he's like, you can't get a commitment out of the guy, but he won't leave you alone.
	I mean, tell me if I'm wrong.
	If I'm wrong, it's your life. I don't tell me, like, I'm not trying to tell you what your life is, but, you know, four years is a hell of a long time.
	To not get a commitment out of a guy.
	And he says, well, my commitment is contingent upon you doing X, Y, and Z, right?
	To which my temptation would be to say, tell you what, asshole, you go find a woman who already has what you want, but don't torture me by saying I'm not good enough.
	Right. And you coming into this relationship with a freshly minted pregnant ex-girlfriend Are you saying that I don't meet your lofty standards of excellence?
	Are you fucking kidding me?
	Who are you to sit on this throne and tell me, well, you know, there's not quite enough stability.
	Oh, wait, I have a call from my baby mama who needs more money.
	How dare you bring any kind of potential instability into my life?
	When I have created a single mother feminist because I couldn't keep it in my pants for 30 seconds.
	In the most obvious scam ploy in the known universe.
	Guy getting away with resources, hooking with a baby.
	My gosh, this guy's got some cojones, as they used to say, right?
	Well, I'm concerned about your levels of stability, you see.
	Gosh, I hope I don't get dragged back into family court to pay more money for my vengeful ex who I had sex with a month before I met you and made a baby with.
	Good lord. Good lord.
	That's a special kind of guy.
	How good looking is he?
	Come on, tell me. He is definitely, definitely.
	Good looking to get away with this stuff, right?
	I feel bad for a lot. Glad I'm older.
	I'm telling you, the stuff I got away with when I was young and hot was unbelievably ridiculous.
	Anyway, go on, go on.
	Yeah, I feel guilty for laughing about it, but...
	Why? I mean, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
	Yeah, if I'm big, I'm fair, I'm big, I'm fair.
	I'm just giving you that, you know, brutal objectivity that I assume people come to me for, right?
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah, it's I'm concerned, you see, about bringing you into my son's life.
	Although I did have sex with a feminist who manipulated the hell out of me and took me to court for money.
	So it's fine, you know, it's fine having unprotected sex with that woman because, you know, but you, you know, she's in my kid's life.
	I'm not going for sole custody.
	She's not an unfit mother. So this woman, yeah, it's totally fine having her.
	In fact, it's a great thing to have her in my son's life, but I don't know about you.
	Right. Come on.
	Yeah. Come on.
	He chose the mother of his child who wants his money but not him.
	Right. And he gave a son to what I assume is a somewhat bitter feminist.
	Oh! Gonna leave a mark!
	But he's really concerned about you, you see.
	Right. Come on.
	You've got to shake that one off.
	I don't care how good looking he is.
	I mean, I know you do. I know you do.
	But this is another reason why I'm not turned that much by a pretty face anymore.
	And certainly not turned by a male pretty face at all.
	In fact, a male pretty face is something I would have a great deal of suspicion of.
	You've got to think of him as bald and pudgy.
	No, because he will be, right?
	Most likely, right?
	Everyone, you know, it's hard to keep off that, you know, post-40, post-50 slight middle tire, the muffin top, and it's, you know, men, like 90% of men lose their hair.
	And, yeah, just think of him as like bald and pudgy, right?
	And, because he will be. And if you commit to him while he's young and hot, and then you don't like him and he's bald and pudgy, he just stole your family from you, right?
	Yeah. So what happened last year?
	Sorry, I don't mean to 180 the convo, but I want to make sure we get to that before we close up.
	Yeah, thank you.
	Yeah, I went, obviously because of COVID, I can't go to the other side of Australia to spend time with my brothers for their holidays.
	So I was invited to What I thought was a friend, yeah, to spend the Christmas Eve and Christmas with her family and her little children, to which I obliged.
	I ended up going there and, you know, spending this sort of afternoon and the evening with her and her family and her brother, who I had never met before.
	He was there.
	Just sort of out of the blue, it was unexpected.
	You know, I think he sort of had some sort of issues where he's from and was spending the Christmas with her.
	He'd had some sort of issues from where he's from.
	Oh, the fog!
	The fog! I can't see, Captain!
	Where are we going? Yeah, I don't know if he had some sort of...
	You know, mental breakdown or some sort of...
	I really don't know.
	But he was there.
	I guess the point is he was there, you know, with the family.
	I ended up having, you know, a couple of drinks with my friends, which, you know, I said that I don't drink.
	And, yeah, I ended up having...
	Some alcohol with my friend and...
	Sorry, does your friend, this woman, right?
	Does your friend know about your history with an alcoholic and drinking and all that?
	Yeah, yeah, she...
	So, did she say, no, no, no, this lady doesn't drink and, you know, leave it at that?
	Or did she say, hey, have a drink?
	Yeah, it was, you know, I guess...
	You know, the sort of festive season is no, you know, no sort of reason to, you know, have some eggnog.
	Not that we drink eggnog here, but yeah, it, you know.
	So she knew you didn't drink, but she encouraged you to drink.
	Yeah. I'd like you to, I'd invite you to revisit your use of the word friend here.
	Right, so we're not friends anymore.
	Right, right, okay. Yeah, so I ended up staying there the night at my friend's mother's house.
	All of the family were there, her children and her and her husband and the mother and in turn this man, her brother.
	I ended up getting Sick, like pretty violently sick in my own swag.
	They call it a swag here.
	So like a little sort of sleeping, portable sleeping vessel.
	Wait, a sleeping vessel?
	What? Yeah, like a swag.
	It's like a little bed that you can take out camping and, you know, you sort of roll it out.
	Like a canvas cut kind of thing?
	Or like a futon?
	No, you sort of roll it up and I don't really know how to explain it.
	It's like a little sort of bit of foam in a canvas bag.
	Okay, okay. Yeah.
	And why was it that you decided to, because you got sick?
	Is that why you slept over or?
	It was already sort of organized that I would, you know, spend Christmas there.
	Oh, so you planned to spend the night?
	Right, yeah, before I knew that this, you know, man was there, we'd sort of agreed on it.
	She said, you know, no one should spend Christmas alone, come over, you know, have dinner, and you can spend Christmas morning with us.
	But they didn't have a bedroom for you, obviously, right?
	Right. So you were sleeping, like, in the living room on this?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Bed thing that I can't remember the name of?
	A swag. A swag, okay, okay.
	Yeah. I think a swag is like a useless crap you get at conventions with people's companies names on it, but it doesn't really matter.
	Okay. It doesn't really matter. Okay. So the swag, so you're sleeping like in the living room on the swag and, uh, does everyone else have a bedroom or where's this mystery man?
	Yeah. So he was, um, in it's quite sort of open, open plan and he was, um, on the fold out couch, um, And again, had I known this would have been the arrangement, I would have never drunk alcohol and I would certainly not have stayed there the night.
	And do you know what you got sick from?
	I don't know, like I did the tests, you know, at the hospital like 72 hours later, so there was nothing, you know, that showed up in my system, you know, if I was drugged or anything.
	Yeah, do you think this guy might have roofied you?
	Yeah, well, that, you know, that thought definitely has passed my mind.
	My memory is, you know, like I know what it takes for somebody to get blackout drunk and the level of alcohol that I consumed was no way near, you know, that sort of possibility.
	Well, you mean you're Australian, so it may be a different metric from the rest of the world.
	But yeah, I assume it's just like a couple of drinks, right?
	Right. So, yeah, I woke up violently ill, like all over myself and my swag.
	And I can't even remember if my friend and her brother, or if it was just my friend, they'd put me in the shower.
	And then they'd put me...
	She'd put me back in the swag and...
	Wait, what?
	Weren't you sick of the swag? No, she cleaned it, yeah.
	Okay, okay. Or took my sheets out and, you know, put me back in there.
	Again, the memory's quite vague for me, even, you know, three months on.
	But I woke up...
	I'm not sure of the timing if this happened before or after I was violently ill, but, yeah, I woke up and this man was...
	Like, he was on top of me and he was having sex with me.
	Well, he was raping you, right?
	Yeah, he raped me in his family home, you know, his mum's home with children in the house to somebody that was, you know, obviously not with it.
	So, yeah, I was raped on Christmas Eve last year by a You know, a friend's brother who I thought I could trust and, yeah, obviously wasn't the case.
	So that was, you know, that has been a big struggle for me, you know, just sort of navigating through that.
	Yeah, it's been pretty cool.
	I'm so sorry. I'm so unbelievably sorry.
	That's just beyond appalling.
	And so what happened?
	So when you woke up, he was raping you.
	And what happened?
	How did that go? Yeah, so...
	This is where I think, you know, there could have been something else at play.
	I'd come to and this sort of, you know, it was happening and then I'd passed backyard or I'd sort of, you know, like that was it.
	I just sort of blacked out and then I woke up in the morning and it was morning.
	So I had a flash of what had happened.
	A flash of being violently ill and sort of being in the shower at one stage.
	And then, yeah, the next thing it was, it was the morning.
	And yeah, just sort of having to put that face on, you know, while her children were excited at being Christmas and, you know, me realizing or me thinking, you know, did that actually happen?
	And You know, realizing that, yeah, that in fact did actually happen.
	I assume you were physically sore or maybe even bleeding?
	Yes. Yeah, I had actually had like a minor surgery a couple of days before, you know, in that sort of region.
	So, yeah, it was pretty crazy.
	And then sort of, you know, just trying to sort of understand that situation and It was, yeah, I guess, you know, it being on Christmas Day and, you know, having to put on that sort of happy face for my friend's children was just...
	Yeah, feeling that I can't really explain.
	It was really awful.
	Oh, no. I mean, ultimate dissociation, right?
	Ultimate dissociation. And what happened then?
	Like, at some point?
	I mean, I guess at some point you had to tell or talk or go to the car.
	Yeah. Yeah. So, um, about an hour later, like he, he had gone.
	Um, I think he had, you know, well and truly realized what had happened, what he'd done.
	So he had, he just, he was gone.
	Um, I had messaged my friend, her husband, and I told him what had happened.
	Wait, so you texted your friend's husband who was in the house, right?
	He had left sort of late that night.
	Their houses are sort of all in the neighbourhood.
	They're quite close together, so he ended up going over to their family home and He'd been on night shift or something, so he was having issues sleeping, so he had left.
	He left to go back to his own house.
	So your friend and her husband are separated?
	No, no.
	So their houses, like her mother and her house, sort of across the road from each other, She wanted to spend Christmas morning or Christmas Eve with the family in her mother's home.
	Okay, okay, got it, got it.
	Yeah, so...
	So he was across the street?
	Right. Okay, so you texted him and did you say, like, this guy raped me?
	Yes, I said that.
	Yeah. He didn't get the message for a few hours.
	By that stage, I had left.
	I just really started disassociating and I think I was in shock and started to withdraw.
	You might want to get a hold of a morning after pill or something, right?
	You've got to get to the hospital, get the rape kit.
	Yeah, the issue with that is that sort of brought It's own sort of issues.
	Nothing was open.
	Emergency would be open, right?
	Yeah. I went home for a couple of hours and then ended up getting a message back from her husband and him just sort of saying he's really sorry.
	I ended up going to his mother.
	She runs like a neighbourhood centre in the town that we live in.
	And I sort of...
	Sorry, what is a neighbourhood centre?
	What is that? Oh, like they look after, I guess, homeless people.
	People go there and volunteer and, you know, there's struggling farmers or, you know, people in some sort of...
	So she's very charitable in the community.
	Right. But she raised a rapist.
	No, sorry. This is my friend's husband, his mother.
	Okay, so it was your friend's brother who was the rapist, right?
	Right, right. Okay, got it, got it.
	Yeah, so confided in her husband's mother because it was sort of slightly removed from, you know...
	My friend. And given her experience in her charitable work, I thought she might have been experienced in this sort of department maybe.
	So she counselled me the first day with that.
	She recommended I go to the hospital and do the rape kits and so on.
	Yeah, I took that advice.
	I'd called the hospital.
	Yeah, I'd called the hospital, so boxing day, so the following day, you know, just after trying to piece together everything that had happened.
	I went down to the chemist, got the morning after pill.
	It's still sort of, you know, in that window of 72 hours.
	So boxing day, I went down To the hospital and they did a rape kit.
	There were sort of four ladies in the room and yeah, they sort of took a bit of a statement from me about what had happened and did a forensic kit and yeah, that afternoon and the following day I had lodged a form online.
	You can lodge a form online, you know, regarding rapes in Australia.
	It might not, or it's not a A statement, an official statement, but you can lodge it and have it there in the police system just so when you go to put in an actual statement that the, you know, it's already there and they can pull that information.
	So I did that and yeah, so I had started receiving rape counselling from the hospital.
	Yeah, so I was doing that and I'd reached out to this other sort of therapist that I'm paying, you know, paying for with my own money just to, you know, sort of get through it.
	I'm probably not making much sense now, but in a nutshell, yeah, that's sort of what's happened.
	And I guess I'd just quickly like to say that I'm I found out afterwards, and this is another reason why I have nothing to do with this person anymore, is that her other brother had actually sexually assaulted her when she was younger, and this man That had raped me.
	He'd been accused of doing this to other women in the past when they were younger.
	Wait, she put you in a room with an accused rapist?
	Yes. Alone?
	Yes. While you were sick?
	Right. Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
	What an unbelievable bitch.
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that has just really topped it off.
	Did the son of a bitch get arrested at least?
	So I've got a meeting with a detective The senior detective next week.
	What, four or five months later?
	What the hell? What are they doing?
	This guy could be out there doing more.
	Help me understand what's with the delay.
	Yeah, so New Year's Eve, I was contacted from the detective, the local detective, and he said he's on holidays and he's going to be away for a few weeks.
	So that That pushed it back into the new year.
	Oh, come on. I don't understand.
	There's more than one detective.
	Not in this town.
	Not in this town.
	But I get what you're saying.
	I agree, definitely.
	Yeah, so then...
	Yeah, I didn't hear from him for, like, the detective, I didn't hear from him, so I ended up calling the police a couple of times, but the conversation I did have with him before New Year's, he seemed, you know,
	like, yeah, I guess he was just sort of stressing that, you know, these things can take years to sort of, you know, go through in court and they're, you know, quite stressful things and he was It was almost like he was planning a bit of doubt in my head or maybe just feeling out how serious I was about, you know, going ahead with this.
	So I ended up reaching out about a month later, so sort of late January.
	To the police station to say, you know, what the hell is going on?
	I haven't been contacted by this detective.
	He said he'd contact me.
	And, yeah, so there had been a bit of a stall in that.
	And I'm not sure if that's him feeling out how serious I was, you know, about pursuing this.
	To be honest, I don't understand how this takes years.
	I just don't. I mean, I assume that the rape kit came up with semen or pre-semen or, you know, like pubic hairs or bruising.
	I mean, and you've got witnesses who place him in the room at the same time.
	And so, I mean, I don't know how on earth this takes years.
	They just go and... You know, shake their fucking fist at this guy and say, we've got you dead to rights.
	We got you in the room with the woman.
	We got your semen in her vagina.
	You know, you're done, man.
	You are done. Yeah. And, you know, I guess he would say, well, it was consensual, right?
	And, but if there's tearing or bleeding, I mean, clearly not.
	And so, I think, again, I'm no lawyer.
	I'm no, I just, I don't understand how this shit takes years.
	I just don't. Yeah.
	I, um, I guess that, you know, might just be our, um, Yeah, sort of system, you know, in Australia.
	So, yeah, I have, you know, all the evidence and everything is there.
	I'm just, you know, I guess I've been sort of counselling, you know, seeking out that sort of, you know, the rape counselling and everything else in preparation to, you know, This journey that I'm about to, you know,
	to take because, yeah, it could take, you know, years as he's saying and it's just going to be, you know, quite stressful but it's something that I'm, you know, Definitely obliged to do, not only for myself, but for other women in the community.
	Oh yeah, if everything you're saying is true and I'm going to accept it as true, then yeah, this guy needs to be taken out of society, for sure.
	Now, looking back at your friend, right, so you're saying that she was sexually assaulted by one of her brothers, is that right?
	Yeah. Okay, so when you look back at your friend, Were there any warning signs or anything about her personality, her life, her environment, tattoos?
	I mean, anything where you could look back and say, okay, this is a really messed up person.
	Because what she did was unbelievably messed up, right?
	I mean, she basically was acting almost as like pimp to rapist, if that makes sense.
	Right. Yeah, that's how it felt.
	Definitely. Yeah.
	Yeah, I met her through, you know, my last corporate job and, you know, she wasn't on the same sort of, I guess, level in the job.
	She was more sort of I guess an internal sort of customer service person.
	Okay, I don't need a resume.
	I'm looking for any signs that there was significant dysfunction.
	And this is not to put any blame on you, any onus upon you, but just in terms of self-protection going forward.
	Is there any sign at how messed up she was?
	There were, yeah.
	Yeah. There were...
	Yeah, just, you know, he'd sort of...
	Yeah, there were, like, just more feelings, you know.
	I guess it just goes to show, you know, you need to trust your intuition in the way of telltale signs.
	Yeah, there were just sort of little things, I guess, but nothing, you know, screaming, screaming that, you know, Nothing alluding to that level of seriousness.
	Wow. I am so sorry.
	That is an appalling experience.
	Listen, I know it's complicated around the rape stuff if there's not direct evidence and so on.
	I mean, if this guy's had a prior history of these sorts of accusations.
	And I guess they haven't Landed, or maybe the women withdrew, or maybe the process was too arduous, or maybe you don't know what happened to the prior accusations, right?
	Right, well, the husband's mother had sort of found this information out after the fact, and she said that, you know, one was an eerily similar situation when they were quite, you know, they were younger, so they were sort of, you know, like late teens.
	And the same thing had happened to her friend.
	You know, he'd done the same thing.
	And apparently he made such a big song and dance about the sort of situation that it sort of pushed her back, pushed the lady or the young lady that this had happened to, you know, sort of pushed her back into not proceeding with any sort of Legal action.
	So, yeah, I guess maybe that had given him some sort of, I don't know.
	Emboldened him, I suppose, right?
	Yeah. So, yeah.
	And she knew all of this.
	Yeah, that's...
	Yeah, I really just can't stand thinking about it.
	I'm repulsed by, you know, not only this person for the actions that they've done, but by my, you know, I classified her as a friend and thought I could trust her and she invited me into You know, her home or her mother's home in, you know, a festive time.
	So, you know, not only has that happened, but I think, you know, moving forward every Christmas now, you know, it's such a sort of, I guess, a big holiday.
	It's always going to be there, yeah.
	Of course, yeah, yeah. Now, with the right people, I mean, I used to get abused on my birthday, but with the right people, you could celebrate all that being in the rear view.
	It doesn't have to haunt you like the three ghosts of Marlowe every single Christmas, right?
	You could look around and say, give thanks for...
	But that's the funny thing, right?
	So this woman who ran the...
	Community center.
	Yeah. She had a son who married a woman who did this.
	Right. Now, with regards to, you may or may not know this and maybe other people don't, but you said it was an eerily similar situation.
	Was it the case that he also was reported to have or accused of drugging the woman in his teens?
	Um, I... I think she or her husband's mother said that there was a party and she had got drunk to the point that she wasn't coherent.
	So the fact that you were Yeah.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	I'm so sorry. God, that's appalling.
	Yeah. All right.
	So how can I best help you in the present?
	I guess moving forward, I'm actively trying to live a positive life and Yeah, sort of turn some things around.
	This guy, you know, I really am committed to trying to make this relationship work.
	I know it takes, you know, two to sort of make things work, but just wanted to get your sort of insight.
	I guess you've given me a bit of, you know, your input regarding he and I and the sort of situation with his ex-partner.
	But I really sort of...
	I guess this is where I get lost with my own thoughts.
	I'd like to make this relationship work with him, but at the same time...
	But you've got four years of it not working.
	Right, right. Right, so if you've got four years of it not working, and I assume you've been trying to make it work for four years, right?
	Right. My big question is this, my friend.
	Why were you not with your boyfriend over Christmas?
	Yes, he was in another state visiting his son.
	He says to me that's something that he struggles with.
	Why were you not with your boyfriend while he was visiting his son?
	Yeah, that's another...
	Why are you with relative strangers over Christmas when you've been in a four-year relationship with a man?
	Right. Yeah.
	Do you see all the bad things that have to happen for this terrible thing to happen?
	Right, yes.
	Right. So why, is it because you can't be around his son?
	I, um, yeah, I, again, with, you know, him sort of being a bit apprehensive about, you know, Which is fair enough.
	I don't think he wants to introduce unstable people into his son's life.
	He's already done You know, the wrong thing by, you know, bringing him into a broken sort of family.
	He's apprehensive about, you know, involving...
	Sorry to interrupt you, but I want to make sure we use our remaining time as efficiently as possible.
	So if I were to ask him about you and say, well, in what way would she be too unstable to bring around your son, what would he say?
	Just with...
	Yeah, like, The relationship that I had with my ex-partner and to that sort of level, you know, going back to somebody like that.
	Okay, you were 17, 17, right?
	I mean, there's got to be some statute of limitations, right?
	Is he going to blame you for getting drunk and high at 11?
	Come on. There's got to be some statute of limitations here, right?
	Right. I don't know that that's necessarily the case, right?
	At the age of 28, 11 years after the decision you made while you were still underage?
	Yeah. Yeah. And I really, I got to tell you, I really despise, just to be straight up with you, this may be nothing to do with being objective.
	I really despise the guys who say, oh yeah, you're stable enough to have sex with, but you're just not stable enough to bring around my son.
	I'm not a fan of that at all.
	That's very insulting, I think.
	Yeah, that's true. I would imagine my instinct, which is not true, not valid, not factual, I'm just telling you my instinct, is that it doesn't have anything to do with what you decided when you were 17, 11 years ago, long before you met him.
	He's afraid of his ex, and he doesn't want her causing trouble because she's meeting the new girlfriend, or the not-so-new girlfriend, so to speak, right?
	Right. Has there been any indication of that?
	Is she the volatile one?
	Is she the aggressive one?
	Is she punchy?
	Yeah. I'm not sure if she's punchy, but...
	I don't mean physically. I just mean like volatile, reactive, triggered kind of stuff.
	Yeah. He did open up to me a little while ago.
	He wasn't sure that she was mentally coping with raising the sun, even though she was...
	Getting adequate money and support off of him.
	Is he far away from his son?
	He's in a different state.
	So why is he so far away from his son?
	His job. Yeah, his job.
	No, no, that's not an answer.
	I mean, you get a new job, you transfer, you start your own business to be near your son, right?
	Right. Because he cares a lot about his son, right?
	To the point where he's dumping you on relative strangers over Christmas.
	Right? So why is he so far from...
	I'm just trying to figure out the positives to this guy, right?
	I get that he's good looking. I guess he's smart.
	He likes this show, which I appreciate.
	And, you know, I'm not going to throw that out completely, but I've got to judge him empirically rather than by relationships, right?
	So... How often does he see his son?
	Last year, he didn't get to say much at all.
	This year, he...
	Didn't get to? Oh, lady, you were talking to the wrong guy about that, using that phraseology.
	Didn't get to? Why?
	Was he kidnapped? Just with the COVID restrictions.
	Oh, yeah, sorry. You know what?
	Isn't there some kind of exception for being the actual biological father, I would assume, right?
	Yeah, there's still the quarantine.
	Oh, if you go to a different state, you have to quarantine?
	For 14 days, yeah, into the state, and then 14 days when you're coming out, so...
	Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, no, I mean, I can see that.
	I pretty conditionally withdraw the earlier objections, but at least I'm sure that he's on, you know, Skype and whatever, like, chatting as much as he can.
	Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's fair.
	Sorry. For some reason, I completely forgot about the pandemic.
	Whoops. Whoopsie. Whoopsie.
	They had me. They had me.
	Minus one for me. That's fair.
	All right. Sorry, I'm still hopefully in the plus, but minus one definitely for that.
	So, okay. Definitely in the plus.
	Yeah. But he was able to travel for Christmas then, right?
	Were the restrictions lifted?
	I think by then, yes, they had been lifted.
	Yes. Okay.
	Yeah, there. Yeah. Sorry, I forgot the question.
	No, no, that's fine. That's fine. I mean, I will at some point look up this and find out when the two-week quarantine for interstate travel in Australia was set up because I don't think it was the whole...
	It certainly wasn't the whole year last year, but all right.
	So he travels, but he doesn't want to bring...
	Now, is his ex in any kind of new relationship?
	Not that I've, you know, again, I've tried to ask, you know, is she sort of dating?
	Is she, has anyone else in her life?
	And yeah, he seemed a bit sort of touch and go with, you know, talking about those sorts of things, which I guess leads into my counsellor.
	She says, you know, if you've been in his life for that long and he hasn't introduced you to his son or You know, he's apprehensive about introducing you to his ex, then, you know, is there something, like, what's going on there?
	Is there, you know, is she under the impression that they're together?
	Or is she under the impression that he's still single?
	Right. Right, because, I mean, when it comes to the politics of your exes, you know, the glorious thing about not having kids with someone is that when you break up, you don't have to give a rat's ass about each other anymore.
	But the problem is, of course, if you have a kid with someone, it's very difficult for that person if they're not dating and you are, right?
	Because it feels like you're moving on and you're getting your life getting together and you're still attractive and they can't land someone and it's really rough.
	He has said that anything positive in his life she will try and destroy.
	Oh, so she is punchy.
	Yeah. Right.
	Right. I guess just trying to navigate through that, you know, how much longer, you know, do you sort of, do you put on it?
	Well, you know, if he's committed to you, if he wants to be with you for life, then the longer he keeps you from his son, the more awkward your relationship is going to be, right?
	Yeah, sure. Okay, so listen, is this guy the best you can do?
	Is this life, these complications, right?
	Is this the best you can do?
	Now, listen. Maybe he's got, like, amazing qualities that make up for these complications.
	But, you know, I've been pretty frank about my opinion of men dating single moms.
	Yes, definitely.
	And this is slightly different because I guess he has only intermittent custody or barely any custody, I guess, with the restrictions.
	Yes. So it's a little different, but that's not going to last forever.
	And you are dating him.
	You're dating a son who's, you know...
	If you're...
	Let's say the son comes over later.
	I mean, if you're not in the kid's life before he's five, you can really never be any kind of authority figure.
	It's just the way it seems to work out, right?
	So that's messy and complicated.
	And then you've got step-siblings...
	And then you're going to have, if you and this guy have kids together, then you've got the son from his first, well, it wasn't even a marriage, just some relationship, who's going to be raised by a punchy, dysfunctional woman, and who likes to destroy every good thing that comes into the father of her son's life, right? That's, you know, and then this kid is going to, she's going to send the kid in as a weapon, right, to your family, I assume, if she's this kind of person, right?
	Is this the best you can do?
	No, definitely not.
	Right. Now, that's something, if you have a belief that it's not the best you can do, that doesn't necessarily mean like break up now or anything like that, but it's something you have to, you have to really work through, right?
	Because, I mean, to me, the relationships that last are the ones that's like, yeah, that's the best I could do.
	You know, my wife, I can't do any better.
	Like, I couldn't. I couldn't invent anyone any better.
	You know, give me some science lab and, you know, like I couldn't, right?
	And she can't do better than me.
	So I'm a great husband and a great dad and a great friend.
	So we can't do better than each other.
	So there's no competition. Right.
	I mean, I'm a decent looking guy with some resources.
	I could theoretically go start a new family.
	It's like, no, but I can't do better.
	I can't do better. I can't do better.
	So there's no upgrade.
	So with this level, and again, you know, he may be like he's done a lot of therapy and he's worked things out and he's got these complications, but he's such a great guy and, you know, maybe it can make up for it, right?
	But it sounds like there's a lot of fog there and it's been four years and no commitment.
	Right. And no commitment.
	And I don't see, empirically speaking, I don't see what the plan is to have you in his life.
	Because if you're saying, well, you can't meet my son, it's because, well, I don't want my son to get bonded with someone who's not going to be around.
	So he's kind of planning for you not to be around.
	If that makes sense.
	Definitely, yeah. So after four years, come on.
	I'm not trying to measure everything by me, but, you know, I was committed after...
	I mean, I asked my wife to marry me after four months.
	Yeah. Yeah, thank you, sir.
	Now, the other thing, too, is that there's the additional complication of, I assume, he feels some guilt over what happened to you at Christmas.
	Yes. Because you weren't with your boyfriend of four years, which is, you know, kind of common law married, right?
	You weren't with your common law husband after four years on Christmas and this happened.
	Now, it's not his direct fault, but, you know, there's dominoes in life and everybody gets that.
	There are dominoes. So the fact that he would not introduce you.
	And here's the thing too, like he could have, you could have traveled with him and simply not met his son.
	Although I guess, did he stay over with his ex?
	Is that right? Well, that's another thing that, you know, he says that he doesn't, but, yeah, it's not completely clear to me.
	It's in a different state, so I, you know, I can't say for sure.
	Oh, that's the thing with cell phones.
	You never know where the hell anyone is, right?
	Yeah. Like, it used to be you just phone.
	If he picked up the phone at his ex's house, he's there, right?
	But if he picks up his cell, he could be anywhere, right?
	Because, no, if he just said, listen, I want to go visit my son for Christmas, you know, I'll be there for Christmas dinner, I'll come home.
	You and I can have Christmas Eve together.
	I'll go over opening presents in the morning, and then you and I can spend the rest of Christmas Day together, right?
	But if he's staying over, then he can't do that, right?
	Right. Yeah. Yeah.
	Yeah. And the fact that you're not clear on that means that...
	I mean, yeah, how did he explain it to you that you weren't coming for Christmas?
	It just, yeah.
	Yeah, it's not really explained those sorts of things.
	Like something will, you know, always seem to come up and, you know, even when he goes away, like to see his boy, something will come up and, you know, it just sort of, it's just timed so well that, you know, I might not speak to him for a couple of days or if I do it, He might always be in his vehicle when we're talking.
	I guess there's things pointing to questionable doubt regarding the situation.
	You mean like where he's staying when he's out there?
	Right, yeah. Well, do you have access to his visa bills?
	No. Because if you did, you'd just look and see if there was a hotel charge for when he was out there.
	Right. Or you could ask him, say, well, did you stay at a hotel when you were out there?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Right. Or before he goes, you would say, which hotel are you staying at, right?
	And he'll say, Hotel ABC. And then when he's out there, you call Hotel ABC and you'd say, I'd like to be put forward to so-and-so, right?
	And if they say, well, we don't have a so-and-so here, busted, right?
	Right. Yeah, thanks.
	It seems a bit dodgy and vague, yeah, I mean, from what you're saying.
	That's not good. Yeah. That's not good.
	It's true. Yeah.
	Well, I mean, as you know, I mean, it would be silly for me to tell you what to do.
	I can't tell you what to do. I mean, it's your life and you have to own your decisions, but...
	So if I were in your shoes, I would say, sit down with the guy and say, okay, it's been four years, dude.
	Okay, four years. I've not met your son.
	I've not met your ex. I'm not part of this family at all.
	And while it's not your fault, the fact that we weren't together at Christmas led to some pretty, I mean, absolutely terrible stuff for me.
	And again, I'm not blaming you.
	I'm just saying that if I had a boyfriend that I could spend Christmas with, that wouldn't have happened, right?
	Again, I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying that I'm looking at my sort of own life and decisions and security and all.
	So things are just kind of bumping along.
	And, you know, I can't do that in my late 20s.
	I can't. I mean, I want to have a family and I want a husband who's committed to me.
	And, you know, it'd be nice to, you know, you say that I'm overcomplicated, but your life is pretty complicated.
	I mean, to be frank, right?
	You met me a month after you had unprotected sex with your ex, which resulted in a child.
	And that's complicated, right?
	Now, I can accept your complications.
	If you can't accept my complications, you just got to tell me.
	Because, you know, it's been four years.
	I'm not crazier now than I was four years ago.
	I'm saner, I hope, I think.
	You know, like there's this great guy on the internet you introduced me to.
	He's helping me, you know, think more clearly and, you know, all kinds of good stuff.
	So I'm not crazier now than I was four years ago, but I'm clearly not stable enough for you to commit to.
	So you got to tell me what, like, you got to tell me what the bar is I got to get over here.
	Now, I may choose to walk away from that bar and say, that's crazy, that's ridiculous, you know.
	If I have to have, I don't know, the brain of Albert Einstein and the body of Kate Upton, like maybe that's a bit of a high standard and, you know, I'll walk away from that because that's kind of deranged.
	But, you know, we're just kind of bumping along here.
	You've got to tell me, like, okay, I'm not enough to commit to yet.
	What's missing objectively?
	And if it's like, well, I'm just looking for more stability, it's like, I don't know what that means and neither do you.
	Yeah. Because that's not a standard.
	It's like if you're in a negotiation in the business world and you want a raise and they say, well, what do you want?
	I want more money. What do you want?
	More. More responsibility, more money, more stuff, more things, more abstracts, more ishness.
	That's not a negotiation, right?
	Right. So if he says he wants more stability, it's like, I don't know what that means, and frankly, neither do you.
	So what does it mean?
	What would it look like? What are the tangible, measurable things that I can achieve that will have you commit to me?
	Right? Because if somebody says you're not enough, the question is, what's enough?
	Right. Right?
	Somebody says, I can't give you a raise until you take this training course.
	You take the training course. Or don't, or whatever, right?
	But at least you know what the standard is, right?
	Yes. What's the standard?
	What do you have to show or achieve or be for him to commit to you?
	The fact that it's four years in and neither of you seem to have a freaking clue is kind of important, I would say.
	Just cross this goal line and we'll be together.
	What's the goal line?
	Just keep running, I'll tell you.
	When the time is right, in the fullness of time, in the fruition of experience, right?
	It's like you're trapped in this infinite red tape of moving goalposts, right?
	How do you know when you're enough for him to commit to?
	And if the answer after four years, don't know, I'm not a fan.
	Right? Am I wrong?
	Am I wrong? Tell me if I'm wrong. I can't see you, so I don't know if you're like making gag motions with your face.
	I don't know. I don't know.
	I can't see you, so tell me where I am.
	Yeah. Bang on the money.
	Definitely. Yeah.
	And also, look, it's pretty humiliating for someone to say, I can't introduce you to my son.
	Right. Yeah, definitely.
	I mean, that's pretty bad, right? Yeah.
	I'll have sex with you, but I won't introduce you to my son because instability.
	So I'm good for sex, just not for your son.
	And I'm not saying it's only sex.
	I mean, I'm sure there's much more to it.
	But you see what I'm saying, right?
	Yes. Because in relationships, this is the general principle, in relationships, it's going to sound bad, but I'll explain it.
	So in relationships, you have to take sex out of the equation.
	You have to take sex out of the equation.
	You just have to. Now, that doesn't mean that you should expect the relationships without sex.
	No, of course not. But...
	You know, in the beginning, you know, there's a lot of sex and that's great.
	But you know what then happens?
	You get kids.
	And, you know, if you're homeschooling, that's a whole lot of times in the day.
	You know what you're not doing? Yeah.
	Having sex. In fact, if you have a kid or kids and you kiss your wife, what happens?
	They're like, ew! Right?
	Yeah. It's like, that is where you came from, alright?
	So stop complaining. Right?
	But no, seriously, there's a whole lot of not having sex.
	Right. And so if the relationship is like based on sex or sexiness and so on, which again, it's part of your relationship, And then, you know, maybe one of you get sick for a while, or maybe you just get older, or, you know, whatever. Who knows, right?
	Maybe there's a lot of stress in your life from various things, right?
	In which case, yeah, you know, I mean, if you're going to center the relationship around sex, if you don't like each other outside of the sex thing, or the sex thing is a major part of it, then what happens when your sex life diminishes over time?
	Yeah. A woman who's had an episiotomy and is breastfeeding is not at peak sexual life.
	You know what I mean? Yeah.
	I guess take the sex away.
	Do you like each other?
	Would you be friends? Would you like each other?
	Would you have this guy in your life?
	If he was gay or if he just didn't, if he was in a relationship, not that you'd be friends with the guy.
	I mean, you can't really, if you're in a relationship, you can't be really friends with a single attractive woman.
	It's not really. But you know what I mean?
	Like if this guy was just unavailable or if he was impotent or like if there was no sexual, what they call frisson, sexual friction, sexual excitement, if there was not a lot of looking together for the, you know, because like long distance relationship are just like weekend bang-a-thongs with very little reality, right? And so, yeah, if there was no sex, right?
	Yeah, I think, you know, before having a relationship with him, I could definitely do that, but now I couldn't see myself just being friends with this person.
	You know too much, right?
	Yeah. So sex can never be the glue that holds the relationship together.
	Right. Sex can never be the glue that holds the relationship together.
	Right. You ever have those, you go to a restaurant, you order some fancy cheesecake and it comes with that raspberry ripple on the side?
	Not really, but yes.
	Well, whatever. Maybe there's a couple of chocolate shavings on the side.
	Oh, yeah, yeah. Like there's the dessert and then there's some frou-frou French stuff on the side, right?
	Right. Right, okay.
	And I'm sorry for the food metaphors, but I haven't had anything to eat today, so I'm getting a little peckish.
	So you order some cheesecake and it comes with some drizzly stuff on the side, right?
	Right. Okay, so let's say you order some dessert and all you get is a couple of squirts of drizzly stuff, right?
	Are you like, that's great!
	Right? Now, if you get the dessert without the drizzly stuff, it feels a bit barren.
	You know, something's missing.
	Yeah. But, so sex is the drizzly stuff.
	Sorry, this is like the worst analogy I think I've come up with in the entire history.
	It's the squirty drizzly stuff on the side.
	Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. It's like, because I know you went through some trauma recently, but you know, it's not the end of the world to laugh, right?
	But yeah, sex is the drizzly stuff on the side and the relationship is the dessert, right?
	And if you just get the drizzly stuff on the side, it doesn't feel like much of a meal, right?
	Yeah. And so that's my sort of question around you.
	Is that, okay, so take the sexual stuff out of it and take the yearning for permanence out of it because that's not happening.
	You know, if after four years something's not happened, guess what, you know?
	It's not happening. Not without some major change, right?
	Like if you've got a friend who's like, yeah, I've been trying to get an acting job for four years straight.
	I go to every audition known to man.
	I've learned accents. I've learned sword fighting.
	I've learned how to gain weight like Russell Crowe to the point where the moon orbits me.
	And you're like, hey, you actually get an acting job?
	No! What are you going to say to that friend?
	Give it up. Yeah, come on.
	Come on. Come on.
	I mean, this is not good, right?
	Right. But no, the people who take my photos and the people who drive me around, they all say I should keep going, right?
	Well, yeah, but they're profiting from it, right?
	And he right now, unfortunately, is kind of profiting from this relationship.
	He gets sex. He gets variety.
	He gets a great companion.
	He gets a witty, intelligent woman.
	And he doesn't have to commit.
	He doesn't have to anger his ex.
	He doesn't have the complications of bringing...
	A woman into his son's life and his wife's, oh, his ex's life.
	I don't know what the hell to call her these days.
	Jesus, things are so confusing out there because we don't have Sharia, sadly.
	But yeah, so he, he's, how is this a negative for him?
	Right. Again, it's lacking compassion to you and your life and your circumstances and your situation, but how, just in terms of purely selfish behavior on his part, how is this not working for him?
	You get sex, companionship, no complications, no overlaps, and you're not demanding commitment, right?
	Right. Yeah. So things are just bumping along for him.
	And he's got all the time in the world.
	He can have a new family in 20 years if he wants.
	You can't. Yeah.
	Yeah. So this is part of what is my concern, is that I'm not sure that he's thinking, like, you've been exploited by men in the past.
	And I'm just not sure how much...
	And listen, if he wants to call in, I'm happy to hear from him, right?
	Because I'm just going off the data you're giving me, right?
	Right, yeah. But I believe you.
	You have a very pleasant voice.
	I believe you. That's all it takes from me.
	But... I'm kidding.
	I'm kidding. But... Sorry.
	Because, again, you can't see me.
	You can't see the wink. But...
	I guess my question is, how much is he focusing on what's the best thing for you?
	I see what he's getting out of it.
	I don't know what you're getting out of it, other than hope.
	And, you know, I'm sure the sex is fine and all that, which is, you know, not unimportant, but I'm not sure how this works in your life arc at all.
	And he should care.
	He should care. Sorry, if it's not working for your life arc, he should be like, you know what?
	I can't give you what you need right now.
	I can't. Or at least I'm choosing not to.
	I'm too scared of my ex.
	She's really scary. She could drag me through the courts.
	And, you know, by the way, you know, if he has been lying, you know, I've kind of lied and dangled.
	I kind of keep her at peace by dangling some hope that maybe we'll be together at some point.
	And so this is why I can't bring you around.
	And so I've really been just manipulating the hell out of everyone, not being honest with anyone.
	She's got too much power.
	She's too scary. So this is not working for you.
	I can't see how I'm able to give you what you'd want and need.
	You want a husband.
	You want a father for your children.
	You want a committed, monogamistic, pair-bonded marital relationship.
	I'm too chicken. I'm too bullied.
	I'm too scared. I'm too whatever.
	It doesn't really matter. I can't give you what you need right now and it's tearing me up.
	It's tearing me up what happened to you on Christmas Eve.
	It's tearing up that you've got four years into this relationship and I'm no closer to committing to you than I was at the beginning and much though I care about you and I love you and we're great together in many ways, I have to, have to, have to do the right thing because I know you've been exploited by men in the past.
	I can't do that. I care too much for you.
	I cannot repeat, even to 1% of a degree, what's happened in the past with you.
	I can't do it. And you are a great woman.
	You deserve to be with a guy who can give you what you need.
	I'm not that guy. And it may be my failing.
	It may be my fault. It may be the fault of the legal system.
	It doesn't really matter. But I did choose to have unprotected sex with the ex and I am not committing to you.
	I'm not bringing you around my son.
	That's unfair to you and it's humiliating for you and I don't want you to feel humiliated.
	That's not right. The fact is that I'm terrified of my ex and I, you know, she sees this, you know, you're like 10 times more attractive than she is.
	She sees me with this hot young thing and I'm going to, like, thermonuclear explosion is going to go off in my life and it's not fair.
	It's not fair to you and I... It breaks my heart.
	And it's my own failing, maybe.
	But I care too much for you to have you trundle on this way and not get what you want out of life because I can't do it.
	I can't give it to you. And I'm so sorry.
	That's a stand-up guy, right?
	I mean, four years, too late, but it's a stand-up guy.
	Now, on the other hand, you could have said, oh, we're a couple of weeks into this relationship and your ex is pregnant?
	Yeah. Bye-bye.
	Yeah. Now, in hindsight, yeah, probably, right?
	Do you think? Definitely, yeah.
	Right. So that's, I mean, that's a red flag.
	I mean, that's literally a red flag coming out of a woman's body.
	That's hard to miss. That's a red flag that comes with a cowboy limp, right?
	And that's just the thing for the future, right?
	Which is, you know, he's a good-looking guy, but, you know, your mom was a good-looking woman.
	Didn't make her a good person, right?
	In fact, probably contributed to her being a bad person.
	Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, I was on a, as I mentioned before, I was on a first date with a woman and she's like, oh yeah, my ex ran up $17,000 on my credit cards.
	I'm like, well, that's, good luck.
	I'll pay for the coffee because I know you're broke, I guess, right?
	But that's, you know, good luck with that.
	Or like the woman who's like, he comes on a date with me and then mentions she has a husband.
	It's like, okay. Okay, good luck with all that.
	You're lying. Whatever, right?
	These are red flags.
	You've got to be ruthless.
	Being ruthless simply means this.
	I understand my value.
	There were...
	I ain't going to brag, but there were some women who didn't want to go out with me, right?
	And... Basically, I was like, really?
	Who are you looking for?
	Are you looking for someone smarter or wiser or, I don't know, better looking or, you know, more ambitious or more educated?
	Like, come on, who are you holding out for?
	I mean, that was my sort of basic position.
	Now, I mean, I was a bit more volatile, a lot more volatile when I was younger, so I get all of that, right?
	But I think I turned out pretty well.
	And so, you know, you can listen to shows with my daughter to see what kind of dad I am and all of that.
	So I was like, okay, so you don't want to come out for a fee?
	And yeah, good luck with that, right?
	And it never worked out with the guys they went out with instead.
	And anyway, so what I'm saying for that is not to sort of praise myself.
	I just happen to be born with a lot of gifts that are, you know, some I've done well with and some were just unearned.
	But you've got to have this thing.
	It's like, yeah, I'm all that and a six-pack, right?
	I'm all that and a buffet.
	And just be like...
	Choosiness or pickiness is a mark of an accurate view of your own value.
	Now, you came from a terrible childhood and you've done really well.
	You've done really well.
	Like, nobody would look at your first 17 years and say, oh yeah, she's going to end up...
	As a seasoned business professional, right?
	Yeah. It would have been like, next stop, jail!
	Yeah. For matricide, and actually, no matricide, no jury would convict you.
	They'd probably dig her up and do it again, right?
	But you've done really, really well.
	Listen, the shit that happened last year, the Christmas stuff, the rape, unbelievably bad luck.
	Like, mind-bogglingly bad luck.
	Like, okay, a couple of warning flags maybe, but nothing like this, right?
	This was just unbelievably bad luck.
	You know, like that thing from Hamlet, I've shot an arrow over a house and accidentally hit my brother.
	Like, that's one in a zillion bad luck.
	And luck is just, the reason we call it luck is it's nothing to do with you, right?
	There was no warning signs.
	You got sick over Christmas and you slept and you couldn't go anywhere.
	You couldn't do anything. And you trusted a friend who was not clearly insane or obviously insane.
	Unbelievable bad luck.
	Right now, this doesn't mean it's not agonizing and painful, but I hope it doesn't stick to you.
	You know, like the family I was born into and the family you were born into, just unbelievably bad luck.
	Right. And you had it worse than me.
	You had it worse than me.
	And you've done better than me at your age.
	This is why I'm sort of in awe of what you've achieved.
	You had it worse than me, if there's any metric, that you want to judge by.
	And you're doing better than me at the age of 28.
	So, unbelievably bad luck.
	Lightning bolt out of a clear blue sky.
	You know, if a tree just falls on your car while you're driving, you're not a bad driver.
	Right? It's just pretty bad luck, right?
	Like when I got sick a couple of years ago.
	It wasn't like I have an unhealthy lifestyle.
	Just bad luck. Just unbelievably bad luck, right?
	And it doesn't stick to you morally.
	It doesn't stick like, right?
	You just... You know, like you're sleeping in a hotel and the fan falls on you, gives you a concussion.
	Just unbelievably bad luck.
	It wasn't like you did something wrong, right?
	So, if you look at yourself and you say, I'm smart, I'm attractive, I'm a survivor, I'm verbally skilled, I'm doing therapy, I've got self-knowledge, I'm all that and a free kangaroo.
	Sorry, I didn't know what you would say in Australia for this kind of stuff, right?
	Like, more than a woman.
	What is that, a woman in a six-pack?
	I don't know. But you're all that and more, right?
	And so when you're all that and more, you can be haughty.
	You can be haughty because you should be in demand, right?
	And anybody who can't see the value in you, it's just Dunning-Kruger, like it takes a person of quality to recognize a person of quality, right?
	I mean, my wife and I are both great people, great husbands, great wives, great parents, great friends, and we were both single in our 30s, right?
	And it's because it takes quality to see quality.
	So yeah, if you've got high quality in you and you recognize that in yourself, a lot of people will reject you.
	And because they simply cannot see the quality or they sense it and have to get away from it because it makes them feel bad or look bad.
	Does that make sense? Yes.
	So yeah, be haughty as shit, lady.
	Like be aristocratic, be superior, be an ubermensch, be whatever you want to call it.
	Yeah. But be haughty as hell.
	You know, because there's a guy out there who's going to recognize you the moment you recognize yourself.
	Right. And as long as you're trundled in with this guy who won't commit, that guy's going to look at you and say, oh, well, she obviously doesn't think that highly of herself.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Because she's not demanding a commitment from this guy.
	She's not saying, look, if you can't see the quality of who I am, Look, I'm sorry.
	Like, I can't explain it to you because you're probably not smart enough to follow.
	You and I look at a blackboard full of physics equations.
	I don't know if they're good or bad.
	I don't even know if the physics equations could be Aramaic for all I know.
	Right? I'm not a math guy.
	I can't judge that.
	It's just a bunch of squiggles to me.
	But physicists, and the better the physicists are, the more you can see whether it's good or bad.
	Right. So you've got to just have that spring in your step and that I'm all that and more and I will not settle.
	Right. Because if you don't settle, you never have to.
	If you won't settle, you never have to.
	Thank you so much, Steph.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	So you got the right, you got every right to go to this guy and say, look, if you don't know the treasure you've got in me, you're a fool, basically, or you're just low quality yourself.
	And I'm done rating myself lower.
	Right. If I'm not good enough to introduce to your son, keep your hands off me.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	Makes sense. And that kind of confidence...
	Listen, I'm not trying to pump you up here, right?
	I'm not saying, and you can fly, and you're an astronaut, right?
	I'm not. I mean, look, you've got insight, you've got intelligence, you've got sensitivity, and you've made some bad choices in your life.
	Some of them are obvious, like the guy who punched you, but you were a kid.
	You were literally underage, right?
	Some, like you end up spending Christmas with a friend, Who's not got massive warning signs and you get roofied and raped?
	That's just terrible luck.
	That's not you making some terrible decision, right?
	Like, that's not you knowing the history of this guy and then saying, sure, let's stay in the same room overnight.
	Yeah, exactly. Right?
	Everybody lied to you. They hid from you.
	Yeah. Right? So that's just terrible luck.
	That doesn't stick to you like it's some bad thing you did or something that you brought on yourself.
	That's just unbelievably bad luck.
	You know, that's like you drive into the tire, bounces through the windshield because it came off a truck going the opposite way, right?
	It's just really bad luck. It's not you being a bad driver, right?
	So if you have that kind of legitimate confidence, because confidence is the bill you pay to yourself when you've earned it, right?
	It's the money you pay when you've earned it.
	I mean, if you order something and you get it and you keep it, you pay the bill.
	And if you've gotten out of bad situations, you haven't reproduced your mom's lifestyle, you haven't become an alcoholic or a drug addict or a criminal, you've been a responsible employee and you're in a relationship with this four-year relationship.
	It's infinitely more functional than anything your mother ever experienced, right?
	So you've stepped up, you've moved up, right?
	This guy's not abusive. He might be a little foggy, might be a little exploitive, but he's not abusive, right?
	Right, right, right?
	Yes, yes. Okay, sorry, just checking.
	Tell me. So you've climbed a staircase that your mother never even knew existed or only knew existed instinctively enough to try and scare you away from it, right?
	Right. So you got to pay the bill to yourself.
	The bill to yourself when you've achieved as much as you have from where you started is, yeah, self-confidence and being a treasure.
	A rare treasure.
	A rare treasure. If this guy can't see it, if he's got a block to it, if he's got a barrier to it, it's his loss.
	It's his loss. Yeah.
	Yeah. Thank you, sir.
	I think you've earned it.
	And you've got to pay that bill.
	Yeah. You've got to pay the bill to yourself to say, no, I'm not going to settle for less.
	Yeah. I mean, you saw the extreme end of your mom settling for less, right?
	You don't want to be anywhere on that side of the equation, right?
	Definitely not. No, not at all.
	Did we get to a useful place?
	Definitely, yeah.
	I hope I can listen back to this if it was recorded.
	If not, I'll just take it so much.
	Will you keep me posted about how it's going?
	Of course. I'll also send you a picture of a swag.
	Oh yeah, please do.
	Actually, no, don't.
	I don't want to see where this deed was committed, right?
	Because I don't want the association.
	But I'm sure I will see it at some point in my life, something like it.
	Last question, you said that you're spending money on therapy and all of that.
	Do you need any additional cash for therapy?
	Have you got enough to keep funding that?
	Yeah, I'm fine with that.
	I have...
	A Bitcoin wallet.
	I've actually been trying to work out how to donate that.
	So I'll get in touch with Cal after the show and work out how to transfer some Bitcoin.
	So absolutely not.
	I thoroughly appreciate the offer though.
	I was checking.
	I was checking because here's the thing too.
	All the people who were like, oh, Steph's a cult leader.
	He's a bad guy.
	He's a this, he's a that. It's like, yeah, all right.
	So you didn't Listened to Bitcoin then, did you?
	You're lost, man. Those are some very expensive words to say.
	If you trashed me for some nonsense that was made up by bad people, it's like I hope people know that you took what you want and then it costs you more than you can probably imagine.
	Anyway, I appreciate the call.
	I'll send you the recording. Do keep me posted about how things go.
	If the dude wants to call in, I would be happy to chat with him as well.
	Definitely. I'm sorry you got deplatformed as well.
	It hasn't stopped me in following you or finding you on LinkedIn.
	See? Treasure! That's what I'm telling you.
	You're a treasure. I appreciate that.
	Thanks. And I appreciate that as well, although I think in some ways it was for the best.
	All right. Well, take care. I'm going to go have some drizzle on the side.
	I don't know. All right.
	Thanks for the call, and I look forward to hearing you.

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