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March 24, 2020 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
49:14
Communism, Torture and Organ Harvesting? China and Falun Gong
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Hi, everybody. I'm here with Mitch Gerber, who has a story that he conveyed to me with the utmost urgency.
And initially, I was a little skeptical because I do get some pretty lurid tales filling my inbox.
But Mitch's persistence and the source data that he brought to bear on the situation convinced me that it was well worth having a conversation about China's relationship with the mindset or belief system called Falun Gong, which I actually saw posters when I was in Hong Kong last fall doing my documentary Hong Kong Fight for Freedom. which I actually saw posters when I was in Hong
I saw posters about this denigrating Falun Gong, and I'd sort of heard it in passing all of the levels of suppression and oppression that had been visited by the communists on this belief system.
But you really did encourage me and impel me really to look into this in more detail.
And boy, is there ever some horrible meat on these bones.
So I wonder, Mitch, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in this situation.
Absolutely, Stefan. I'm grateful to be on your show, first and foremost.
And thanks, everybody, for tuning in to allow me to share about this most pressing, urgent topic.
A new form of evil that is occurring in our world.
I am South African-born, American-raised as an American resident.
I went to school for international human rights and politics.
And I first came into contact with Falun Gong, this most beautiful and honourable spiritual movement, a mind and body practice incorporating five simple exercises And a meditation and a Buddhist type of ancient philosophy based on truthfulness,
compassion, tolerance. When I was studying international business at the University of Georgia, And what struck me the most about this is how these innocent and kind of haunted people have just been brutally persecuted, slandered, victimized, demonized as some kind of sinister terrorist cult, all for the sake of making money by the Chinese communist regime and the Chinese military, cutting out their organs while alive and selling their organs as the healthiest organs in the world illegally without consent.
So when I heard about this, I'm also skeptical at first, especially on a new investigation.
But when I realized that the evidence, that these 52 pieces of evidence and the investigators that I've worked closely with over the last 20 years of this investigation, which is not confirmed, I had to do everything I could to expose this and that's why I'm grateful to be on the show.
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the history.
I was a little bit confused because there was an ancient practice and it reminds me of Tai Chi or other sort of meditative and spiritual body movements that are designed to bring sort of peace of mind and centered ethics.
So there's an ancient component to the practice, but it was really reintroduced in its modern form in the early 90s and actually enjoyed a fairly positive relationship with the Communist Party until, well, I guess, until it didn't.
Absolutely. Mr.
Li Hong Tzu, the founder of Falun Gong, a teacher and a five-time nominee award A nominee of the Nobel Peace Prize, numerous awards, a recipient for the health and benefits he brought to the public of China between 1992 and 1998.
In Falun Gong, it was introduced to the general public, was highly rewarded and praised by the members of the communist regime.
Except for the president of the Chinese Communist Party, Jiang Zemin, the leader, and in 1999, because it became so popular, so large, and stood in stark contrast in terms of ideology to the communist regime, Yeah, between one out of every 10 Chinese national citizens were practicing Falun Gong by 1998.
Suicide rates were going down.
Morality rates were going up.
People were living longer, feeling better.
Millions of dollars of healthcare costs were reduced.
Just because of the jealousy and hatefulness that the communist regime's leader at that time, the military dictator, namely Jiang Zemin, he couldn't control the hearts and the minds of the people.
He outlawed it, demonized it, and has spent at least 20 years to eradicate this particular practice and killing them for their organs.
But yes, it was the largest practice in China.
The life force of China between 1992 and 1998, all from a humble beginning.
Like I said, five exercises, a simple philosophy of truthfulness, compassion, tolerance, and after the teacher introduced it in 1992.
Now, there are certain aspects of the belief system, just to be frank, that to me would not magically pass philosophical muster.
You know, some of the more...
And the Buddhists have similar things, some of the more supernatural claims about being able to levitate, walk through walls and so on.
But that to me is not particularly important because that to me is not the center of the teaching or the center of the collision course that Falun Gong was going to have with the Chinese Communist Party.
So let's get a sense of how quickly...
It grew from virtually nothing, as you point out, to a hundred Million people practicing it within, what, five, six, seven years, enough to have an impact on the healthcare system, enough to have an impact on the crime rates, if I understood this correctly, and enough to be embraced as a positive thing by communism, as long as it was reducing their costs.
But then, of course, the fear that a belief system that has oppositions to communism gaining traction in China, well, I mean, that generally is not countenance by these kinds of totalitarian mindsets.
100%. And when we go back in history or look at the communist regime, the red dragon, the reign of terror as it is called, there's an ancient saying or a profound saying that many dictators, many empires, Many regimes in history killed in order to conquer.
The Chinese Communist Party conquered in order to kill.
The history of its killing, 100 million people wiped out, more than two world wars combined, 5,000 years of Chinese culture decimated.
And you nailed it, Stefan, because of the largest amount of people practicing At least 30 million people more than the Chinese Communist membership, not to mention Falun Gong's ideology of truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance that stood in stark contrast to the bribery, nepotism, the evil nature of the Chinese Communist Party.
They felt very threatened and wanted to do what they've done to all kinds of campaigns, from the Tiananmen Square massacre to Tibet, to Uyghur Muslims, to House Christians, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution where Mao wiped out 40 million people.
They wanted to destroy it, bankrupt the Falun Gong, kill them, eradicate them.
And actually, the leader of the Communist Party, Jiang Zemin, right before the persecution started, was just very similar to Kristallnacht when the Jews were completely outlawed by the Nazis that fateful day.
But Jiang Zemin, one month before the persecution began, which was on July 22nd, 1999, he created the 610 office, a Gestapo type of office that sits right now, to this day, for the last 20 years, on top of the Chinese Communist regime's We're good to go.
Okay, so let's, the organ stuff to me is so appalling.
I mean, it's out of the very bowels of the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn.
But let's talk about that tipping point in the late 90s.
How was it communicated and were the steps, like, were people warned off?
Were they scooped up? Were they disappeared?
How did the crackdown on the Falun Gong start?
Okay, July 22, 1999.
There was the complete crackdown.
But before that, the Chinese Communist Party were starting to harass and threaten and demonize Falun Gong simply because it was becoming too large.
Like I said, the two main reasons were because anything in a communist dictatorship, when you start to become too large and too popular, The communist regime becomes very threatened.
I live in Vietnam, in communist Vietnam.
You cannot be anything out of the control of the communist regime.
You are owned, you are state-owned, your businesses, your livelihood, you have no rights to guns, you have no rights to private property.
So when Falun Gong became the largest spiritual movement, instead of embracing it as they did before, before it came out of their control, The Chinese communist regime with its leader, Jiang Zemin, was very threatened by this kind of large gathering, large population that was completely outnumbering them by 30 million people.
So, little by little, they were using their state apparatus to demonize Falun Gong, called a sinister cult, a terrorist group, to the point that they would set five people on fire in Tiananmen Square and stage a hoax to demonize Falun Gong, saying that these are killers, these are rapists, these are suicide practitioners.
Even burning a little girl, a 12-year-old little girl and her mother to demonize Falun Gong and turn public opinion against it in 2001 in the heightened extreme of this persecution.
They also, which is very, very demonizing, is that they set the entire propaganda machine to destroy Falun Gong's reputation.
Sending hundreds and thousands to state-mandated hospitals, but before that, labor camp system, detention centers, something called the Lao Gao system, which was the labor camp boom by 1999, when hundreds and thousands of Falun Gong protested and said, listen, we just want to practice our spiritual belief.
We just want to practice our exercises.
We're doing nothing wrong.
We just want to... Be in peace.
And they actually, about 10,000 practitioners, went to Zhongnunghai, which is the capital compound building in Beijing, on April 25th, 1999, about two months before, three months before the crackdown of persecution of Falun Gong, to talk to the premier, Zhu Rongji, Jiang Zemin, the president of China's vice-premier.
And they went in, they talked to Zhu Rongji.
The premier actually supported the seven parliament bureau members, the highest ranking members of the communist regime supported Falun Gong.
All their families were practicing as well.
However, when the letter was sent to Jiang Zemin, the leader of the communist regime, he was so infuriated and so jealous and so hateful that he just outlawed it completely.
And on July 22nd, Stefan, this is when it commenced.
No graduation certificates, child custody, all the bank accounts are frozen, just very similar to the Jews in Nazi Germany or the Rwandans in Rwanda, the Tutsis in Rwanda, or the Armenian genocide, all kinds of genocides.
But this one has been staged a cold genocide, basically final solutions Yet systematically integrated into the society to brainwash the millions and millions and millions of Chinese people against Falun Gong in order to create the final solution campaign and the organ harvesting to make this money from them.
So yes, once it started in July 1999, it continued.
But the organ harvesting only occurred, the investigations and the allegations started only in 2006 when the two lawyers from Canada came on the scene.
Okay, so just before we get to that, let's talk about, well, when I say let's, please, if you could, talk about what's been going on in the detention centers, in the concentration camps, in the torture pits.
I saw horrible descriptions of women who were sunk into sewage water for days and other forms of torture that would stagger the imagination even of someone like Stephen King.
So even in this horrible interim, but before that, even more horrible organ harvesting, what was going on to those?
What was being inflicted on those who were taken by the regime?
Slave labor, brutal.
I had a torture methodist You said it messes in water for two or three days.
Terrible torture methods, rape.
The Chinese communist regime would forcely abort female practitioners, babies.
They would throw female practitioners into cages and have them gang raped.
They would hold them up and torture them for days.
Electric batons in the genital areas.
It's shocking. Slave labour, most of the products nowadays have been made by following along practitioners.
And there have been video evidence that have come out, played on CNN and other BBC, of practitioners actually video camera-ing, making these small little cameras in the actual slave labour detention centres.
But yes, the torture methods, I mean, shocking.
People have come out, the videos on Falun Gong practitioners, the abuse, the burning of the faces of the Falun Gong practitioners, just to make them give up their practice has been shocking.
And at least a hundred torture methods.
So yes, I mean, It's just been shocking.
And the testimonials that have been coming out by the practitioners that have been tortured, the biggest thing that raised the mind or raised the belief that organ harvesting was occurring, which we can talk about next after the torture, was that every time the investigators would ask them or explain, like you were saying to me, what were going on in these labour camps, they would mention about forced blood testing.
The organs were checked upon, they were blood tested, And the investigators thought this was kind of weird, but this was the investigative catnip that they were looking for.
And every time the investigators were interviewing the tortured victims of Falun Gong, the Falun Gong practitioners were becoming very, very Angry and frustrated, saying, you know, we've been tortured for God's sake.
Why would these people want to know about these blood tests?
But they found this is the investigative catnip, which would lead to this new form of evil, the forced organ harvesting.
So horrendous torture, over 100 torture methods, and as you said, doused in gasoline, almost set on fire.
Fingernails taken out, tortured, placed in water, cages, water tortured, all kinds of horrendous torture methods on the following wrong conditions.
Is there any estimate, I know these things are very, very tough to get remotely, but is there any estimate of the number of people taken, the number of people tortured, the number of people who were in these gulags?
Well, you know from the Uyghur Muslims accounts, about 2 million concentration camps.
When you have 100 million Falun Gong practitioners and you have hundreds of thousands a year that have been harvested for their organs, at least 100,000 transplants a year, 80 to 100 thousands, let's just be clear, because this is such a hard to believe situation.
Millions have been arrested.
God knows, we can't really give an estimate, but up in the millions, tens of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners sent to state mandated hospitals, re-education centers, detention centers.
I mean, when you're dealing with 100 million people, 10% of the population And many of them went to Tiananmen Square to protest, but they wouldn't give their phone, their numbers, they wouldn't give their addresses, they wouldn't give their names, because out of fear and out of protection of their family members and their colleagues, when you're dealing with such a police surveillance state, like you're dealing with the communist regime.
So, God knows, Stefan, but the numbers are huge.
I mean, hundreds of thousands sent to state mandated radio education, labour centres, baby camps.
So the numbers of detainees in the millions, for 20 years this has been going on.
Well, and what I've read about and some of the information that you shared indicates that there is also a form of psychological re-education, or re-education is kind of the wrong way to put it, but there is a form of indoctrination against Falun Gong that you have to sign.
You're never going to do it. You reject it.
You accept communism. There is a real programming that is going on in these facilities.
Absolutely. When the persecution of Falun Gong began, the communist regime broadcasted on their state television apparatus 24-7 about how evil Falun Gong is, the demonization.
They staged, like I said, the self-immolation hoax to burn five people, set themselves on fire, blaze, broadcast this as a television movie set to their population of 1.3 billion Chinese people over and over and over again.
So the mindset would be controlled to such an extent, psychological warfare, not only the physiological or the emotional warfare, genocide, ethnocide, the complete indoctrination of their minds and their spirits.
I mean, the Chinese communist regime It's the masters of deception.
They're the masters of propaganda. And under that kind of control, and I've seen it in Vietnam, how the Vietnamese, not only are the Chinese, but any communist dictatorship, I mean, you could even see in the old Russian-Soviet Empire, when you talk to people from the former Yugoslavia, former Romania, the psychological warfare, the intense pressure, the fear-mongering, I mean, forcing people into fear, psychological fear, And the communism is the way they control them.
So this is exactly what was done over and over again, demonizing Falun Gong, demonizing such an innocent spiritual practice in order to set the stage For this forced organ harvesting and this money-making genocide.
And they have done this, of course, with other ethnic groups, as you point out, the millions of Muslims that are in these concentration camps again being indoctrinated and being forced to abandon their belief systems.
This, of course, has occurred in Tibet.
It's occurred with the Buddhists.
This is tragically not a solo story.
Absolutely. Christians, Tibetan Buddhists, and Uyghur Muslims, but 95% of the organs have come from Falun Gong.
And there has been no other group like Falun Gong that has mushroomed and skyrocketed in popularity, which became the life force of China.
Okay, so let's, you know, we've been dancing around the edge of this precipice.
Let's just dive in, which is...
Okay, you said there were the blood tests looking for, I guess, blood compatibility for organ transfers.
What were the steps by which this horrifying practice began to come to light?
When Falun Gong became the largest practice in China, it was because of the psychological and physiological and emotional benefits.
The Chinese government started to do medical research on the practitioner's DNA, blood, organ tissues.
They were doing it on the psychological and emotional and physiological benefits of Falun Gong and found that this was an extraordinary practice, a practice that was The life force, it became so extraordinary that between 1992 and 1998, just through word of mouth, 100 million people were practicing.
People couldn't believe it, how in three months people were just being healed from all kinds of ailments, injuries, serious diseases.
So they did their research and found that they could make a lot of money off the organs.
Because when you're dealing with Falun Gong, it's very similar to Tai Chi, as you said.
It's a Qi Gong. So with these exercises, it unblocks the energy channels.
So the blood vessels become much more refreshed.
The blood flow circulates better to the organs.
And the energy channels outnumber the blood vessels.
Now, in ancient Chinese research and in...
Chinese modality, the Western media have still got a lot to learn about Chinese ancient science, where they target the energy channels.
Once you open these energy channels, you open up an incredible system of releasement of stress, anxiety, pent-up...
Negative energy. They call it qi.
So when Falun Gong was doing this and bringing people to incredible health, the Chinese regime realized this, awarded Falun Gong for incredible health benefits as it has been awarded around the world.
Yet the communist regime took it upon itself to see the benefit of organ harvesting and the profiteering from this.
So what they did was they demonized it, We started to send hundreds and thousands of Falun Gong practitioners under the watchful eye of the Chinese military to state-mandated hospitals, cutting out their organs while alive with a little anesthetic.
And then Burn the bodies to conceal the evidence and then selling the organs, promoting the organs on a large scale to donors around the world, killed to order medical associations, their own citizens on a large scale.
In a horrifying way, of course, given the one-child policy, given the aging population that's going on in China, I guess there's quite a demand for Fresh organs.
I can't believe the things that we were talking about here.
It's so vampiric, right? But there's this demand for fresh organs for an aging population within China and of course overseas as well.
Absolutely. And what was shocking is that the international, the investigators who I'll get into in a minute, they realized in their reports, and this is 10, 15 years of research.
I mean, David Kilgore and David Mattis started in 2006.
But what I was about to say is that the shocking thing is that China has the world's largest liver problem, liver cancer.
So what we were seeing is that they were selling, the communist regime was selling the organs of the Falun Gong of their own citizens back to their citizens without any consent, without any understanding that this is what's going on.
So making money by killing their own people Back to their people.
And this is what they're doing right now with the coronavirus.
The reports have been coming out, so our intel have been received.
And because of the organ failure has been so rampant in China, the communist regime is now ramping up their organ harvesting of Falun Gong and sending the organs back to their people who have been contracting the coronavirus.
Shocking. So this is a new form of evil.
So you're saying this first came to light around 2006.
I guess there's no way of knowing exactly when it started.
So, you know, we got close to a decade and a half of evidence, of research, of indications that this practice is going on.
Correct. What is happening in the world stage?
What is happening in the international human rights community?
What is happening from the UN? How is this still remaining so much on the fringes of society in the West?
Because of money.
This is a massive multi-billion dollar income generating harvesting business and it is colluded by many governing bodies around the world.
To the best example of this confirmation, basically.
Because this is so hard to believe, Stefan.
And I mean, people are still saying, oh, that issue, is this really going on?
How do you know? It's such a hard issue to wrap around the head or to put in a little into your hands.
Yet, in 2006, allegations of forced organ harvesting, of the Falun Gong particularly, We're confirmed by the two esquires, David Kilgore and David Mattis, in their report named Kilgore Mattis Report, K-I-L-G-O-U-R dash M-A-T-A-S report,
that confirmed the allegations that between 2001 and 2006, between 40 and 65,000 Falun Gong practitioners were harvested It sounds like absolutely horrifying lurid tales.
What was the methodology? I mean, this is not something that you can go and bid on eBay or anything.
So how did they dig in and find this stuff out?
The one piece of evidence was a Chinese surgeon.
You can actually contact him.
His name is Enver Totty.
He's a former Chinese servant, lives in London right now.
He came out after doing a forced organ harvesting on a Uyghur Muslim.
At the behest of his Chinese Communist superiors, and he fled because he couldn't live with himself.
And when Ethan Gutmann, who joined the investigation, he wrote the book The Slaughter with David Kilgore and David Mattis, which was doing a conference, Enver Totti put his hand up and said, listen, I was bear witness to this.
I was a forced organ harvesting surgeon.
And has been travelling around the world.
There have also been recordings, audio recordings, I think, not video, but audio recordings of other surgeons discussing this matter.
Correct, exactly.
They also have gained so much evidence through Matthew Robinson, an award-winning reporter who is a reporter of Epoch Times, the international newspaper in New York City.
And they investigated the hospitals, the amount of beds, the amount of hospital wards, the amount of hospitals that were just alone built to carry out this horrendous campaign.
Then you had doctors that have come out.
You had military personnel.
Watchful guards under the Chinese regime that were actually bearing witness of hundreds and thousands, at least 5,000 to 6,000 practitioners at once every night.
Cattle card like the Jews were in Nazi Germany in sealed containers like rotisserie chickens sent off to these death camps and harvested.
You had a surgeon's wife who came out and said that And her ex-husband removed the corneas of at least 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners.
And these people were alive forcefully.
The Round Table Coalition, Stefan, is a great series documentary at endtransplantabuse.org.
We're the investigators, David Kilgore, who was the former Secretary of State to the Asian Affairs of the Canadian Parliament, and David Mattis, an international human rights lawyer and 35 years for international human rights law.
Ethan Guttman, who is the nominee of the Nobel Peace Prize of 2018 and who wrote the book The Slaughter after being with Falun Gong practitioners for at least seven years.
Matthew Robinson and Anastasia Lynn, who was Miss World 2016 and 17, got together And shared the evidence of this.
Now, the China Tribunal, under Sir Geoffrey Nice, who was a prosecutor for Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian dictator, they actually unanimously came out in 2018 and have sat down in the United Nations and European Parliament, I guess you call it, council meeting, exposing this.
However, the United Nations has still remained quiet And the World Health Organization has remained quiet because of the infiltration of the Chinese Communist Party.
We must understand that the Communist Party has its hooks in every kind of governing body around the world.
The United Nations, the World Health Organization, to give you an example, Huang Jifu, who is the Ministry of Health and a liver surgeon of the Chinese Communist Party, was placed into the World Health Organization and sits on the board to directly and purposefully, and for one reason only, to prevent the World Health Organization from stopping this.
When David Kilgore and David Mattis and Ethan Gutmann came to present the facts when I was sitting with them in London, They talked about this and shared about how the lady chair turned deaf ears to this.
The World Health Organization refuted the claims.
And although a lot of governing bodies are coming on board, only four countries, Israel, Taiwan, Italy and Spain have banned organ tourism, but a lot has still kept quiet.
It took Amnesty International about seven years to come on board, Freedom House, and different organizations.
But slowly but surely, because this evidence is so now blowing the lid off the communist regime's deception, lies, and villainous crimes, More and more people are coming to the aid and that's why Stefan, I'm grateful to be on your show because I've been reaching out to many people for the last 15 years and no one has come back to me and now You know, it takes a lot to be on your show.
It takes a lot of credible evidence and confirmation to have me on the show.
Look, I am just a simple man.
I haven't got background.
I haven't got even a degree.
But what I do have is the heart and sincerity to push forward and, as you said, the persistence and the resilience to get people to understand this and direct people to the true evidence and confirmation of these allegations.
So, yeah, this is what's actually been going on.
You say that there are only the four countries that have banned organ tourism, and I assume that's because sourcing these kinds of organs and assuming that they've been gathered with some ethical standards in place, you know, people who've signed the organ donor cards who are in a car accident and die or something like that.
Is it because sourcing these organs is not possible if you want to have any kind of ethical standards?
The reason why Israel did it, for example, is that Jacob Levy, the president of the Transplantation Society, the Medical Association in Israel, his patient went to China for a heart surgery, a heart transplant, and said that he could get a liver or a heart in a specified date.
Now, Jacob Levy looked at him like, oh, what are you, mad?
This takes years.
You have to be on a waiting list for at least two to three years, and you can get an organ transplant.
On a specified date, kill to order?
He said, yes. You just have to go to China.
Jacob Lively looked into this and said, this is impossible.
This is crazy. Until he found out that this was forced organ harvesting, basically just the communist regime taking like lobsters, Falun Gong practitioners out of a tank, cutting them over one, two, three, four practitioners To find the match within a specified date and then selling it for large amounts of profits to international donors.
And he looked into this joke, he was horrified as we are, and he made a huge recommendation to the Knesset and the Sahedron, the Rabbinic Council, to ban organ tourism.
So they initiated to Israel a 2008 transplantation law To ban any Israeli going to Israel.
And if they found out that they did...
Wait, sorry, do you mean going to China?
Excuse me. Any Israeli going to China to get an organ transplant because of the Falun Gong persecution and forced organ harvesting and would ban any...
The law in 2008 would ban any tourism from China.
And if any Israeli was caught going to China to get an organ, they would be defunded from the insurance policies.
Then Taiwan, this little country that has always been bullied by China, just like Hong Kong, was also initiated the ban on organ harvesting.
That was huge, and that was very courageous and brave by Taiwan, knowing the history of China, wanting to take it over and declare war.
Then you had Italy and you had Spain.
The Spaniards also, in their course, in their law, condemned organ harvesting and created a ban on the tourism.
But this is very disappointing because only four out of how many countries in the world, Stefan, 165, only four were banned organ tourism.
Very little media support, very little access, very little condemnation, but yet the traction of condemnation has become more and more viewable and viable, as we would say, because they cannot get away with this much longer.
David Kilgore, David Mattis, Ethan Gutmann and others have made it their duty to go to over 60 different countries to expose this.
And I was lucky to be part of them.
I brought them as a coalition to London, to Westminster Abbey, to talk about this and did a presentation with also Invertotti, the Chinese surgeon, to expose more of this.
So they can get away with it. The communist regime's lies and cover-ups are numbered.
I mean, it really is astounding and appalling when we look back in history, as you point out, to the Armenian genocide committed by the Young Turks.
Well, the Muslim organization, not the YouTubers.
But we look back at the other genocides in Rwanda, of course, the genocides against the Jews and homosexuals and intellectuals under the Nazi regimes and so on.
And we say, well, this is absolutely appalling, but that stuff is in the rear view, and we're supposed to learn these damn lessons.
We're supposed to learn these lessons and not have it happen again.
Now, this idea that you have an assembly line of kill to order, cut out of their bodies alive, livestock for organ transplants is so beyond what we would consider evil that it truly staggers the imagination. livestock for organ transplants is so beyond what we would And the idea, of course, that the world is looking the other way during the course of this.
Why?
I mean, when I was in Australia for a speaking tour about a year and a half ago, I had a lot of people come up to me and saying, you know, the Chinese are buying up huge sections and tracts of Australia and it's a huge issue for us.
I've heard complaints from listeners in Africa that China is expanding and pushing aside a lot of the Africans and putting out these Sherlock-style loans to the African governments and slowly entrapping them in a web of debt and there are these sort of I like the Chinese people, but the Chinese government, of course, is a completely other matter.
It's a communist matter. And it's just so frustrating that here we see still endless movies about the Holocaust.
And it's like, yes, we should absolutely remember the Holocaust.
We should focus on it. But can we not put just a little focus, just a little bit, On this assembly line of opening up human beings like they're tuna in order to stuff their innards into rich people who are there to prey upon their fading breaths, it seems like we could spare just a little cultural energy for that too.
You said it best. You nailed it.
I've been doing this for 20 years.
No money, no fame.
As your audience would see, I have full sincerity.
I'm not here to sell anything to you and waste your time.
But this is, yeah, you're right. This is a new form of evil.
This is horrific. This is soul-stirring.
This is against all moral code, all values, all integrity of the human conscience.
And it's a communist regime that is Deeply, deeply sick, twisted, demonic, has wiped out 100 million of its people, has killed to order an innocent group of people who I've been honoured to be practising.
I've been practising on Falun Gong for about 20 years.
I come from a Jewish today, a Jewish-Christian family.
I practiced the Falun Gong exercises.
There's nothing cultish about it.
Now, you're going to talk about Rick Ross and other so-called cult experts that have demonized Falun Gong.
These have all colluded by the communist regime.
There is no evidence that Falun Gong is a cult.
There's no evidence that they're sinister or evil.
Sorry, let's drop on that because I think he also gave me the honor of calling me a cult leader as well.
So it just seems to be he's spraying this cannon kind of wildly.
But it is a belief system that is utterly transferable.
You can just go read the books, do the exercises, learn it yourself.
You don't need to be part of any group.
There's no money.
There's no million-year contracts.
There's nothing like that.
And that I just want to really be clear about this because, you know, this four-letter cult word is really kind of sprayed around in a very destructive manner.
And I've actually had people on my shows who were raised by genuine cults, raised in genuine cults.
And the pain that was inflicted was extraordinary.
The damage that was done was very long-lasting.
And it's not a word that should be applied lightly.
And it is about as cult-like as picking up a book on Tai Chi.
I don't want to sort of minimize the belief system, but as far as I could see, that's where the limit is.
100%. And with Falun Gong, also known as Falun Dafa, like you said, it's free to practice.
You can come when you want to come. You don't have to come if you don't want to come.
It's five exercises, a simple practice, truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance.
I've been practicing for over 15 years.
There's nothing cult-like about it.
David Kilgore and David Mattis, David Kilgore used to work in the Canadian Parliament, like I said, one of the investigators.
He shared, as Ethan Guttman shared on the Roundtable Coalition, which I hope you can post a link to the audience, all the links I sent you.
They were talking about how they wouldn't be able to stay with a cult for seven years if this was an extremist cult.
Now, there have been many Falun Gong practitioners, not many, but people who have led Falun Gong.
There's no anger.
There's no... Oh, you've hurt me.
My life was ruined.
No, they just didn't want to practice anymore.
They were free to go. So let me just throw one other thing in here, which is, look...
Even if it was a cult, assuming that everything that is negative is said about it is true, you know, there are cults all over the place.
It still doesn't give anybody the right to harvest people's organs, to torture them, to brutally rape them, to lock them in cages, to set fire to them, to skin them alive, to pull out their fingernails.
So this idea that somehow the cult rubric is opening the gates of hell for these kinds of tortures in any legitimate fashion, I just really want to urge people not to get too drawn into this cult or non-cult thing because that's kind of like, OK, let's say it is a cult, which it's not, but let's say it was.
You still don't get to torture and mass murder and open up like a beanie baby and take out the stuffing of people and sell it on the black market.
It doesn't justify anything like that.
So I think that the cult thing is a giant sort of tunnel that people go down rather than saying, okay, let's say everything they say is true.
Let's focus on, I don't know, the incarceration, mass rape, torture, murder, and organ harvesting of people because that seems a little bit more relevant than are they a little bit forward in their practices.
100%, exactly.
And this was a talking point of the communist regime.
Either it's a CIA-backed operation or it's a cult.
To demonize Falun Gong, and this is the exact strategy that the communist regime used, and over and over again to brainwash its citizens and the international community to hide and cover up the claim that organ harvesting was going on.
And to re-educate, and forcefully re-educate, we have to send these Falun Gong petitions to re-education centers, but yet they were sending them to state-mandated hospitals and making money off the organs.
And of course, as communist slander goes, they can't call Falun Gong members white supremacists because they're all in China, so they have to go with something else.
Exactly. And I also make the point that if this was such a sinister, horrible, evil cult, suicide cult, that was so evil for the body and the mind, then why are they being harvested and tortured and killed for their organs and sold as the healthiest organs in the world, and their bodies being embalmed and sold off to the body exhibitions of the German fellow who's made millions and millions, at least $60 million off his body world exhibitions that tour around That allow people to see these lovely cadavers.
Oh, the skinless statues?
Yes. Wait, okay.
Are you saying that those are coming out of these murder mills?
They are following on petitioners, absolutely, yeah.
Ethan Gutman did a report.
Ethan Gutman is the China investigator who joined forces with David Kilgore and David Mattis, and he wrote the book, The Slaughter, which is a wonderful book, a 10-year investigator report, adding on to the evidence about this.
Oh yeah, Stefan, there's no doubt.
I mean, Falun Gong is an amazingly beautiful practice, and it's been slandered, persecuted, and dehumanized in the most Venomous ways.
Let's point this out as well, that their commitment to non-violent protest, of course, rivals that of Gandhi and other non-violent protesters throughout history.
I had a long conversation about this challenge when I was covering the protests in Hong Kong, where I got a good face full of tear gas from the lovely police masters in Hong Kong.
But their commitment to nonviolence is so strong that even when it came to cutting a wire and moving that wire to someone else to change a broadcast, there was considerable debate within the practitioners as to whether that was legitimate or not.
Absolutely. The kind-heartedness, the bravery, the courageousness, the peaceful nature of Falun Gong petitioners, I mean, exudes just incredible admiration.
I mean, it's a testament to character, as you said, Gandhi and others that have just faced an onslaught of venomous lies, vilification, dehumanization, violent suppression, and yet...
Peaceful protests, peaceful clarification of truth, as I have where I have been.
I've had spies after me.
I've had to sit down with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Atlanta, the CIA, and...
They ask me, aren't you scared?
Don't you feel for your life? I mean, they are to get you.
They mess with your computers.
They've slandered you.
But no, because to fail to support what is good and to fail to expose what is evil is unacceptable.
And what is a man who cannot make the world a better place?
So I do what I can, but always peacefully.
I don't fight back.
I'm not here to harm or hurt anybody.
Because truth is bigger than anything.
And even though I'm a big guy and I'm a warrior and I like to protect, I think violent resistance is no good a task than anything.
It puts you in a boat of the persecutors.
But yet you have to stand up and you have to stand and fight for what is right.
And the Falun Gong exemplified not even a fight.
They just clarify the truth with all their heart peacefully.
And this is amazing, just like Gandhi did.
Yeah, anytime you see somebody slandered by the mainstream media, you first have to check and see if they're opposed to communism in any kind of way, shape or form.
And then that usually is your answer.
Okay, so let's really, really appreciate the information, the update.
What is the ideal situation going forward?
What would you like to see coming out of this?
The world community coming out of good people around the world who can be made aware of these kinds of horrors.
What would you like to see occur?
Like I shared with the coalition in London in Westminster Abbey last year, I would like to see the mainstream media, whether the left or the right, come to the aid of Falun Gong, support Falun Gong, stand on the side of destiny and others who have been persecuted in China and to Expose the lies of the communist regime.
I'd like to see kind-hearted people sign a petition.
I know this petition doesn't do anything or do much, but the pen is always mightier than the swords they find.
When you're signing a will, when you're signing a cheque or a mortgage statement, that is still very important.
So a signing of a petition validates that you're a good person and that you're willing to stand for others less fortunate and are suffering than you.
I would also like to see the United Nations And the governing bodies come to the aid of Falun Gong and to forcefully or to stop the communist regime or to urge the communist regime, just like the House of Representatives in the United States, whether Democrat, Republican or moderate, have passed massive resolutions to urge the communist regime to stop persecuting Falun Gong and others and their forced organ harvesting genocide.
And I would also like to see the...
The world stage, the European Parliament, the European Union, even Congress itself in the United States and other governments, the United States government, Trump, ban organ tourism from China just like little Taiwan did, just like Spain did and just like Israel did.
And more people like you, Stefan, if there's anyone watching, like Lauren Chen, Lauren Southern, Candice Owens, Ben Shapiro, these kind of people will allow me to come on the show.
I would love you to contact Stefan if you can.
Invertotti, I'll give him the email.
I'll give you the WhatsApp to have them on so your audience will say, wow, this is actually going on.
To look at the website, stoporganharvesting.org, In transplantabuse.org, read the evidence from David Mattis and David Kilgore and Ethan Gutman, their book, The Slaughter of Bloody Harvest.
Also, go to the website, dafoh.org.
And most importantly, try the exercises of Falun Gong, those who are enthusiastic about yoga, new age Tai Chi, and all these new modalities, especially with this virus.
The testimonials I've received, especially with me, just 100 miles away from the Chinese border, we've had to go into lockdown as well.
I cannot, as a foreigner, go out without a mosque.
They won't serve me. But when I do the Falun Gong exercises, it protects me from any pathological viruses.
And it's a wonderful practice to improve health and to keep healthy, especially with also eating.
Well, I just do want to point out that we don't just want to rely on movement exercises, but there are other things to do as well.
Okay, so I will put a link to all of these resources below, and I really do encourage people to educate yourself about what is going on.
Share this information. Again, I know it sounds shocking.
It sounds like something out of a horror movie, except if you tried to propose this in a horror movie, you'd probably get shouted down as it being too extreme.
But please, please, you know, these are human beings out there who are being destroyed and...
Thank you.
People will educate themselves about this, talk about this with other people.
You know, if everything that you're saying is valid, this is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, human rights abuse that is going on in the world today.
And certainly in the future, they'll look back, as we look back in history and say, why the hell didn't people do more?
Well, now you know and now you can do more.
Really, I do appreciate your time.
Stay in touch and let's stay on this topic.
Absolutely. And anyone who doubts, just read the information.
Read the books. No one has the right to doubt unless you do the research.
And like you said, look at the information.
Check out the things for yourself because discernment is most important.
But thank you, Stefan. Allow me to come on your show and talk about this magic issue.
And thanks, everybody, for listening.
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