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July 14, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
35:15
The Bomb in the Brain Part 3 - The Biology of Violence: The Effects of Child Abuse
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Hi everybody, it's Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Main Radio.
This is True News, The Bomb in the Brain Part 3, The Aftermaths of Child Abuse, The Biology of Violence.
Let's take a quick tour of the organ that we're about to have a look at.
And remember, I'm just a podcaster.
I'm not a doctor or an expert, so please do your research.
I put the references to this series at the end of these slides.
These are just some information gathering, but I think it's very, very useful stuff to know.
So first and foremost we have, right at the base of the brain, the amygdala, which has the primary role in the processing and memory of emotional reactions, particularly the very primitive but very powerful fight and flight mechanisms.
The hippocampus, spatial navigation, and long-term memory, this is what gets damaged in the realm of child abuse where people simply have blank spots in their childhood histories.
The corpus callosum, this facilitates communication between the two hemispheres, And the prefrontal cortex, also known as the moral center, this is for planning complex cognitive behaviors, personality expression, decision-making, and moderating correct social behavior, in particular delaying gratification.
So here's a map of the brain.
You can see the prefrontal lobe just behind the eyes.
The corpus callosum wrapped around the hippocampus.
The biology of violence.
What is it that makes us violent?
If we want to solve the problem of violence in the world, from bullying in the schoolyard to wars in the world, we have to understand why people become violent to begin with.
Over the past few decades, startling new research has come to light about the psychology and neurobiology of violence.
During the first four years of life, as mentioned in the last presentation, 90% of a child's brain develops through the experiences of that child.
In the past two decades, over 100 careful studies have shown that violence is the result of insecure, disorganized early attachments.
What does that mean? Let's look at infancy and brain development.
The mind and emotional content of the brain are created in the first few years of life through the attachment bond between the infant and the mother.
They're created. We are not born violent.
We are not born warlike.
We are not born aggressive.
The mind and the emotional content of the brain are created.
It is mainly the right hemisphere of both mother and infant that regulate early emotional states and cope with stress.
Romanian orphans put in cribs at birth and fed regularly but smiled at or sung to usually die since they have black holes in their brain scans rather than healthy functioning right hemispheres.
Not all of them, but many of them.
Rhesus monkeys separated at birth from their mother's gaze grow up fearful and violently attack other monkeys.
Insecurely attached children display nine times as much aggression as their securely attached peers.
The baby's brain, according to the latest research, is literally tuned by the caregiver's brain to produce the correct neurotransmitters and hormones.
Experiments showing how depressed or angry mothers regularly produce insecurely attached infants who grew up to be violent adults, the so-called Ainsworth studies of emotional neglect in childhood, now run into the hundreds worldwide.
It seems to be about as established as anything can get in this realm.
Depressed and angry mother produces insecure attached infants who grew up to be violent adults.
A dislike of children.
A study of 900 American mothers found that they most enjoyed socializing, praying, eating, exercising, watching TV, and cooking more than taking care of my children.
Even more crucial are the studies that show that 80% of mothers experience either mild baby blues for months after birth, postpartum depression for up to several years, or puerperal psychosis, which again, of course, is relatively minor, but less emotionally available to their children.
This is not scientific, of course, but Anne Landers asked her readers if you had to do it over again, would you have children?
Out of the 10,000 responses, 70% were a resounding no.
Abuse in cortisol. Cortisol is a hormone that helps the body prepare to cope with stress through its effects on metabolism and the immune system.
Abusive mothers who are either depressed or angry and the cortisol levels of both depressed and angry mothers are elevated both in the mother and her child.
So if you're depressed or you're angry, your cortisol levels are higher in both you and in your child because the mother and the child are a system, particularly for the first few years of life.
Studies have shown that many infants and children who have been maltreated have abnormal secretions of cortisol.
Indicating that their body's responses to stress have been impaired, which has significant health effects down the road.
The Neurobiology of Terror Sure, Ledoux and other neurobiologists provide massive evidence that the neural circuitry of the infant's fear system is located in the right brain in two main mood regulators.
The prefrontal cortex, the regulator, could also be known in Freudian terms as the superego, and the amygdala, the fear system, or the id.
The role of the amygdala is to remember a threat, to generalize it to other possible threats and carry it into the future, right?
So if you get attacked by a bear, the amygdala will imprint that bears are dangerous and give you that fight-or-flight mechanism the next time you see a bear, so you don't go, oh, look, a different colored bear, I'm sure I'm safe.
It's very helpful. Human subjects whose brains were electrically stimulated in the region of the amygdala reported a sense of being reprimanded by an authority.
The greatest predators that we have are other human beings, not animals, of course.
The amygdala of insecurely attached children are hyperactive and larger than those of securely attached children.
They have a greater surging of fight and flight, of adrenaline, of cortisol.
Plus, their prefrontal cortices are smaller and so they're less able to control their fears or angers or other irrational emotional reactions in response to later interpersonal difficulties.
This is lashing out. This is acting out.
There is a physical problem in the brain.
Fight and flight mechanism is strong.
The restraint mechanism is weak and you can see this in a brain scan.
When children experience maternal abandonment fears and maternal abuse, they release cortisol which shuts down their prefrontal cortex and makes their amygdala hyperactive.
Right? Because you have to act quickly when you're in a situation of threat or danger.
And this indelibly imprints or burns in the memory of the threatening mother in their amygdala module.
The brain becomes broken.
Brain scans reveal that an enduring pattern associated with destructive defensive rage is imprinted into an immature, inefficient orbitofrontal or cortical system and amygdala during relational trauma in early childhood.
Fight or flight kicks in with very little restraint.
This is physical in the brain.
The right amygdala has been measured to be larger and more excitable in psychotics, depressives, those who have anxiety disorders, and murderers.
In addition, all these violence-prone products of early relational trauma suffer from elevated neorepinephrine, acting out neurotransmitter levels, and depressed serotonin or calming hormone levels.
The child uses the output of the mother's emotion-regulating right cortex as a template for the imprinting of circuits in his own right cortex.
We inherit this template of how our mothers deal with emotions.
Do they control their own emotions?
Do they talk about their emotions?
Or do they lash out? We receive that as an imprinting.
The same way the ducks imprint on the first thing they see on coming out of the egg.
Later, when adult human subjects are shown fearful or angry faces, it immediately depresses their right cortices and activates their right amygdala, as when they are racially biased white subjects who are shown faces of African Americans, right?
So it depresses the control suppression moral center and activates the fight-or-flight mechanism.
Mirror neurons.
One further important area of the brain becomes damaged during early stress, the insula, a deep area of the cortex that contains most of the mirror neurons that make people capable of empathy of the emotional states of others.
Neuropsychiatrists have examined abuse and neglected children with brain scans and shown the damage done that affects their need for violence later on.
Bruce Perry has published a huge number of studies showing abnormal brain development following neglect and abuse in little children, including significantly smaller brains, decreased activity in their prefrontal cortex, the moral center, the restraint center, the maturity center, hippocampal damage, long-term memory, amygdaloid overexcitation that produces electrical storms similar to those experienced by patients with temporal lobe epilepsy, seizures that cause hallucinations, and violent behavior.
People who say, I heard voices telling me to kill.
The prefrontal cortex.
So to go into a little bit more detail about that which has withered away during child abuse, the medial prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain just behind the eyes, which has been termed the site of the moral decision module and the sense of self, It's so damaged by early mistreatment that all impulses are released from control, both violent impulses and sexual impulses.
And if we remember from the last ACE study, negative childhood experiences were associated with promiscuity.
As Kona puts it in his study of human nature, ethnic violence, and war, Child abuse produces frontal lobe damage that contributes to violent tendencies.
Epileptics with seizures in the amygdala have aggressive outbursts.
People with records of criminal aggression have more EEG abnormalities than others.
Reduced brain serotonin activity lowers the threshold for aggressive reactions to frustration.
Impulsively violent and antisocial individuals have low levels of serotonin.
In addition, a prefrontal cortex with low serotonin means the subject experiences delusions and hallucinations, which, because of early structural damage, means they cannot catch errors and correct them before they become violent, reacting to imaginary threats.
Violence and Crime Bessel van der Kolk, the most famous expert on dissociated mind states, concludes, People with childhood histories of trauma, abuse, and neglect make up almost the entire criminal justice population in the United States, with abusive childhoods causing dissociative states.
Robert Forreston reports all his suicidal patients hear parental voices telling them they should kill themselves.
Violence in prisons According to James Gilligan, a prison psychiatrist who has spent his life talking to violent criminals in prison, He reveals that they were all horribly abused as children.
He writes, As children these men were shot, axed, scalded, beaten, strangled, tortured, drugged, starved, suffocated, set on fire, thrown out of windows, raped, or prostituted by the mothers who were their pimps, Some people think armed robbers commit their crimes in order to get money, but when you sit down and talk with people who repeatedly commit such crimes, what you hear is, I never got so much respect before in my life as I did when I first pointed a gun at somebody.
Boys and Girls The only neurobiological condition inherited by boys that affects later violence is that they have a smaller corpus callosum, the part of the brain that connects the right and the left hemisphere.
Boys who are abused had a 25% reduction in sections of the corpus callosum, while girls did not.
Boys grew up with less attachment strengths because careful studies show that mothers look at their boys less.
Because both parents hit their boys two or three times as much as they do their girls, because boys are at much higher risk than girls for serious violence against them, and because boys are continuously told to be tough, not to be a wimp or a weakling, not to be soft or a sissy.
Abuse and neglect produce equally damaging results in the brains of both boys and girls, but girls tend to respond more with dissociative, internalizing symptoms, withdrawal, depressions, helplessness, dependence, while boys tend more to act out fight-or-flight responses, externalizing, impulsive, and hyperactivity, which is one reason why they're diagnosed more as hyperactive or ADHD or oppositional-defined disorder.
So boys are hit more, and it has a worse effect on them in terms of later violence than it would with girls.
The effects of child abuse Abused and neglected children have poorly integrated cerebral hemispheres.
This poor integration of hemispheres and underdevelopment of the orbitofrontal cortex is the basis for such symptoms as And think about this in terms of your life or the lives of people around you.
Difficulty regulating emotion.
Lack of cause and effect thinking.
If I do this, then bad things will happen.
If I steal this, I might go to jail.
They have lack of cause and effect thinking, which is to do with the deferral of gratification.
An inability to accurately recognize emotions in others.
An inability of the child to articulate the child's own emotions.
An incoherent sense of self and autobiographical history, that's related to hippocampal damage, and a lack of conscience.
Perhaps you were raised by somebody like this.
this.
It's very important to understand this.
Children who have been sexually abused are at significant risk of developing anxiety disorders, two times the average.
Major depressive disorder is 3.4 times, alcohol abuse 2.5, drug abuse 3.8, and antisocial behavior, criminal, 4.3 times the average.
Meaning?
Early interpersonal experiences have a profound effect on the brain because the brain circuits responsible for social perception are the same as those that integrate such functions as the creation of meaning, the regulation of body states, the regulation of emotion, the organization of memory, and the capacity for interpersonal communication and empathy.
These are depressed people or angry people who feel that life has no meaning or who are nihilistic.
It's a kind of brain damage.
Memory and stress.
Stressful experiences that are overly traumatizing or chronic cause chronic elevated levels of neuroendocrine hormones.
High levels of these hormones can cause permanent damage to the hippocampus, which is critical for memory.
So if you have black holes in your childhood, it's important to look at what is around those black holes.
Is it stress? Was it abuse?
Based on this, we can assume that psychological trauma can impair a person's ability to create and retain memory and impede trauma resolution.
If you can't remember it, you can't deal with it.
Emotions. The effects of early maltreatment on a child's development, as we're arguing here, are profound and long-lasting.
It is the impact of maltreatment on a child's developing brain that causes effects seen in a wide variety of domains, including social, psychological, and cognitive development.
The ability to regulate emotions and become emotionally attuned with another person depends on early experiences and the development of specific regions of the brain.
Early maltreatment causes deficits in the development of these brain regions, primarily the orbitofrontal cortex and corpus callosum, because of the toxic effects of stress hormones on the developing brain.
Too much stress in too long a period of time is toxic.
It is a poison on the developing brain.
Stress. Brief periods of moderate predictable stress are not problematic.
In fact, they prepare the child to cope with the general world, tests and sporting events and so on.
The body's survival actually depends upon the ability to mount a response to stress.
But prolonged severe or unpredictable stress, including abuse and neglect, during a child's years, particularly the early years, is highly problematic.
The brain's development can literally be altered by these experiences, resulting in negative impacts on the child's physical, cognitive, emotional, and social growth.
This chronic stimulation of the brain's fear response means that the regions of the brain involved in this response are frequently activated.
When they are, other regions of the brain, such as those involved in complex thought, cannot also be activated and therefore not available to the child to learn with.
What that means is that when you're in your fight-or-flight mechanisms or your fear response or your amygdala is overstimulated as it is during chronic stress and abuse, you can't learn as effectively.
You're dissociated, you're tense, you're stressed.
This is, of course, why learning disorders, despite high intelligence, are often associated with these kinds of issues.
Persistent Fear Response Chronic stress or repeated traumas can result in a number of biological reactions.
Neurochemical systems are affected which can cause a cascade of changes in attention, impulse control, sleep, and fine motor control.
Chronic activation of certain parts of the brain involved in the fear response, such as the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis can wear out other parts of the brain, such as the hippocampus, which is involved in cognition and memory.
Early experiences of trauma can also interfere with the development of the subcortical and limbic systems, which can result in extreme anxiety, depression, and difficulty forming attachments to other people.
Chronic activation of the neural pathways involved in the fear response can create permanent memories which shape the child's perception of and response to his environment.
And of course, so often children are blamed for not paying attention, for being in another world, for being a daydreamer, for being nervous, rather than recognizing that their brains have been damaged through stress and abuse.
Hyperarousal. Less fun than it sounds.
When a child is exposed to chronic traumatic stress, his brain sensitizes the pathways of the fear response and literally creates memories such that his fear response becomes almost automatic.
He doesn't really think about it.
This is called a state of hyperarousal.
This brain is adapted to a world that is unpredictable and dangerous.
It is hypervigilant, focused on nonverbal cues that may be threatening.
Dangerous parent, a drunken parent, a drugged out parent, a violent parent.
The regions of the brain involved in the hyperarousal response are always on.
And because of this, the child may frequently experience hyperactivity, anxiety, impulsivity, and sleep problems.
Their horses are constantly charging.
It's a constant stampede.
Dissociation. While hyperarousal is more common in older children and males, dissociation is more common in younger children and in females, children who often feel or are immobile or powerless.
Dissociation is characterized by first attempting to bring caretakers to help, and if this is unsuccessful, becoming motionless and compliant, and eventually dissociating, this is often called the surrender response.
People describe children in dissociative states as numb, non-reactive, or acting like they aren't there.
And it's true, though not just saying it's related to these children, it's true that a lot of people who commit atrociously violent acts have no memory of it afterwards, even if shown footage of their violent acts feel like it wasn't me, I wasn't there.
Disrupt the detachment process.
Much of a child's emotional development, as we're arguing here, is rooted in his relationships with his early primary caregivers.
For example, it appears that aggressive, submissive, and frustration behaviors may be genetically encoded.
If relationships with the caregivers are positive, the child's cognitive structures learn to regulate these emotions and behaviors.
If the relationships are negative or weak, the lower brain responses become dominant, and the cognitive regulating structures do not develop to their full capacity.
The young child may not fully develop the cognitive ability to control his emotions, nor develop an awareness of others' emotions.
So we're born with the capacity for this kind of violence, and positive relationships intervene in that and give us maturity and self-control.
Children who have been abused and neglected often lack empathy and truly do not understand what others feel like when they do something hurtful.
Neglect and Empathy Babies need to experience face-to-face baby talk and hear countless repetitions of sounds in order to build the brain circuitry that will enable them to start making sounds and eventually say words and form sentences.
If babies are ignored, if their caregivers do not provide this type of intense verbal interaction their language development may be delayed.
If a child does not receive kindness as an infant he may not know how to show kindness as an adult.
If a child's cries for attention are ignored as a toddler he may not know how to interact positively with others later.
These capacities may not fully develop because the required neuronal pathways were not activated enough to form the memories needed for future learning.
Abuse in learning. To learn and incorporate new information, whether it be a lesson in the classroom or a new social experience, the child's brain must be in a state of attentive calm, a state that traumatized child rarely achieves because they're on this electrical storm of hyperarousal.
It's not uncommon for teachers who work with traumatized children to observe that the children are really smart, but they do not learn easily.
They're often diagnosed with learning disabilities.
Summary. The effects of abuse and neglect on the developing brain during a child's first few years can result in various mental health problems, for example.
Diminished growth in the left hemisphere may increase the risk for depression.
Irritability in the limbic system can set the stage for the emergence of panic disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.
Smaller growth in the hippocampus and limbic abnormalities can increase the risk for dissociative disorders and memory impairments.
Impairment in the connection between the two brain hemispheres has been linked to symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD. The Effects of Abuse From Scientific American, a difficult childhood reduces life expectancy by 20 years among adults.
Family Research Laboratory, the University of New Hampshire, conducted a large study involving over 3,000 mothers of 3-5-year-old children during the late 1980s.
They found that 63% of the mothers had spanked their child at least once during the previous week.
Among those spanks, they hit their children a little over three times a week on average.
The researchers found that the children who were spanked the most as three- to five-year-olds exhibited higher levels of antisocial behavior when observed two and four years later.
Of course. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules.
Dr. Murray Strauss, the co-director of the laboratory, noted how ironic it is that the behaviors for which parents spank children are liable to get worse as a result of the spanking.
Corporal punishment and IQ. The Family Research Laboratory of the University of New Hampshire released a study which showed that the more often a child is spanked, the lower they score in IQ tests four years later.
We've just looked at the physical basis for these kinds of findings.
The researchers do not attribute the lower IQ tests directly to physical injuries sustained during the spanking, rather they believe That parents who do not spank are forced to use more reasoning and explaining while disciplining the child.
Some parents think this is a waste of time, said the researchers, but the research shows that such verbal parent-child interactions enhance the child's cognitive ability.
Yes. 13% of the parents reported spanking their children 7 or more times a week.
The average was 3.6 spankings per week.
27% reported using no physical punishment.
Again, that's self-reporting.
It's probably lower.
Those children who were spanked frequently averaged 98 on their IQ test, a below average score.
Those who were rarely or never spanked scored 102, an above average score.
The four-point average decline in IQ among the spanked students is sufficient to have a negative functional effect on these children.
And for those who are going to ask, yes, they did normalize for everything under the sun.
Spanking and antisocial behaviors.
This is a quote. Even minimal amounts of spanking can lead to an increased likelihood in antisocial behavior by children.
This study provides further methodologically rigorous support for the idea that corporal punishment is not an effective or appropriate disciplinary strategy.
I would go even further and say I have no idea why children need to be disciplined at all.
I'm a father, and I think I have something useful to say about it, but we'll talk about that another time.
A 2006 study based on a national survey on mental health found that physical punishment in childhood is associated with an increased rate of major depression and alcohol abuse or dependence later in life.
Physical punishment was defined in the study as minor assault, such as being slapped, spanked, pushed or shoved.
If you spank your child, you are increasing their risk of alcohol abuse or dependence and major depression later in life.
It is abusive.
A person with an adverse childhood experience score of greater than 4 was 460% more likely to be depressed than a person with an ACE score of 0.
A 2002 study, quote, The meta-analysis also demonstrates that the frequency and severity of the corporal punishment matters.
The more often or more harshly a child was hit, the more likely they are to be aggressive or to have mental health problems.
Another 2002 study.
For males with a certain gene, 85% of the boys who were abused during childhood turned to criminal or antisocial behavior as adults.
Spanking and punitive political beliefs We found that, particularly for males who had never had any psychotherapy, when they reported a high level of childhood punishment, they were significantly more likely to endorse a range of punitive public policies, like support for the death penalty, opposition to abortion, support for the use of military force.
What we have found, really broadly, is the higher level of punitiveness among political conservatives is really strongly associated with experiences generally of harsh punishment from childhood.
It's not just going to be that they were spanked.
There's a whole family climate, and punishment is just going to be one of those indicators of that.
In our research, we also found that when we gave people the statement, the amount of physical and sexual abuse in this country is greatly exaggerated by the mass media, conservatives were significantly more likely to agree with that.
This could be partly because, in my opinion, the hippocampal damage of child abuse is they can't remember.
Physical abuse and cancer.
Even after counting, for age, race, sex, childhood, stressors, adult, health behaviors, and adult household income, individuals who had been physically abused as children were 47% more likely to develop cancer than individuals who had not been abused.
Just tragic.
As St. Augustine said, In my beginning is my end.
One theory is that chronic stress that an abused child is constantly under brings up levels of the fight or flight hormone cortisol.
Increased levels of the hormone might interfere with the immune system's ability to detect and get rid of cancer cells.
I talk about this in my interview with Greg Siegel.
Child abuse and depression.
Child abuse and neglect were associated with a 51% increased risk for current major depressive disorder in young adulthood.
Major depressive disorder is a serious, serious thing.
It's not the blues. It's like can't get out of bed and stuff.
Children who were physically abused had a 59% increased risk of lifetime major depressive disorder.
Those who experienced multiple types of abuse had a 75% increased risk of lifetime MDD. The risk of current major depressive disorder was 59% higher for those who were neglected, but not abused.
And we'll talk about the cures again very briefly.
And, you know, just to remind you, I'm just a podcaster.
Please do all of your own research.
Make no decisions based on anything I'm saying.
Talk to a professional.
The two that seem to be important and the two that have certainly worked for me.
I had an adverse childhood experience score of 8, which is horrendously high.
And these are the two that have worked for me, and there seems to be some research that supports their efficacy.
So the effects of psychotherapy, this is talking cure, this is not medication on brain function.
Unipolar major depressive disorder, MDD, is a debilitating condition with a lifetime prevalence of 17%.
Recent epidemiological evidence indicates that MDD is the fourth leading cause of disease burden and the leading cause of disability-adjusted life years.
It is a major, major illness.
What are the effects of psychotherapy on brain function with regards to this?
Well, the data seems to show that effective psychotherapy can robustly change brain functioning in specific brain areas related to cognitive control, self-referential processing, reward-based decision-making, and assigning emotional salience to external events.
The relapse occurred in 76.2% of those receiving medication for major depressive disorders, while only 30.8% of those who received psychotherapy.
So that's quite effective.
And here's some examples.
This is a sagittal view showing brain air is responsive to a 12-week course of behavioral activation therapy from a functional or MRI task that assesses anticipation of rewards.
The red crosshair demarcates the left chordate, part of the brain's striatal reward system.
So what this means is that when people have had a 12-week course of psychotherapy, they anticipate greater rewards from things.
They're able to think that things will be better in the future.
If they go for lunch, if they get a new job, they expect better rewards, which raises their motivation, gets them out of the funk.
And I talk about this in an interview, which I'll publish after these studies as well.
The benefits of exercise are huge.
In children, college students, and young adults, exercise or physical activity improves learning and intelligence scores.
Moreover, exercise in childhood increases the resilience of the brain in later life, resulting in a cognitive reserve strength.
The decline of memory, cortex, and hippocampus atrophy in aging humans can be attenuated by exercise.
Physical activity improves memory and cognition.
Exercise protects against the brain damage caused by stroke, promotes recovery after brain injuries, can be an antidepressant.
How does exercise improve the brain?
With exercise, the number of neurons increases in the hippocampus, a brain structure, as we've looked at, that's essential to memory and learning.
Also, synaptic plasticity increases in a certain part of the hippocampus due to exercise, the dentate gyrus.
Now, again, I'm no expert.
Synaptic plasticity means that more connections can be made.
Spine density increases in certain parts of the hippocampus.
Exercise also increases and improves the small blood vessels throughout the brain.
Exercise can change the function of neurotransmitters and can activate the monoamine system.
Cognitive behavioral therapy.
How effective is CBT? CBT deals with an examination of core beliefs of the thoughts that precede the emotional states of the interpretations that provoke, in a sense, the emotional reactions.
Well, let's look at CBT versus a panic disorder with agoraphobia or a fear of open spaces.
A review of approximately 150 research studies has shown that 87% of people with PDA improved with only a 10% relapse rate for CBT as compared to a 60% improvement rate with a 35% relapse rate for antidepressants and a 60% improvement rate with a 90% relapse rate for anti-anxiety medications.
Which, to me, makes a fair amount of sense.
If you're only treating the symptoms rather than cause, when you stop treating the symptoms, the cause will create the symptom again.
Cognitive behavioral therapy for panic disorder without agoraphobia has an improvement rate of 90% with a 5% relapse rate.
Part 4 of this series will be up next.
Thank you so much for watching and listening.
You can find the references at fdrurl.com forward slash tn underbar abuse one.
This is Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio.
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