March 22, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:55:27
4321 "The Mother of My Child Wants an Abortion!" Freedomain Call In
A heartbreaking tale of easy sex, a crazy relationship, and a tiny life that hangs in the balance...▶️ Donate Now: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletterYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 1. Donate: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 2. Newsletter Sign-Up: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletter▶️ 3. On YouTube: Subscribe, Click Notification Bell▶️ 4. Subscribe to the Freedomain Podcast: http://www.fdrpodcasts.com▶️ 5. Follow Freedomain on Alternative Platforms🔴 Bitchute: http://bitchute.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Minds: http://minds.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Steemit: http://steemit.com/@stefan.molyneux🔴 Gab: http://gab.ai/stefanmolyneux🔴 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Facebook: http://facebook.com/stefan.molyneux🔴 Instagram: http://instagram.com/stefanmolyneux
But yeah, I'm not sure where to begin with all this.
Well, it's your story, so there's no point me beginning in it.
So just tell me what's on your mind.
All right.
So I guess I should Start off with it.
It wasn't a very long relationship.
It started in December.
So it was very intense, but very brief.
And I guess I should give some background information on her.
She she comes from a family.
Her mother and father split up.
I'm not sure what age that was.
She never really went into that, but her mother was very
Abusive Physically and psychologically to her and apparently that went on her whole her whole life and it still happens Because she actually lives next door to her mom right now, which isn't the best situation to say the least But it got so bad that she actually started self-harm she cut herself over it and I guess one time it actually got so bad that
Oh my gosh.
mother was just laying in there about how worthless she is that she actually cut worthless into her leg oh my god just terrible and like i'm sure i don't even know the half of it she only really ever opened up to me about it once and uh you know i didn't want to i never wanted to pressure about it to poke and prod like i just i figured when she was ready to talk about that stuff she she would open up but right uh yeah
then that kind of plays into her um previous relationship she was in this apartment which she's currently trying to move back into i I think she's going to now.
That's where we were going to move into.
And she was with this guy who abused her three times.
He got drunk and hit her once, and she stayed.
And then he put her head through, I believe it was like a glass table, and she was Bleeding all over the place and she stayed with him again.
And then the final straw was, uh, he actually was holding her down and he was, he caught her on the back.
I've seen the scar and he was cutting her and asking, you know, is this what you like?
Because of her, he knew about her self harm scars and all that, of course.
And he actually went to jail for that.
So that's why she had to move out of there because she couldn't afford to stay there by herself.
And she had to move then into this tiny.
It's basically like the smallest bedroom you could imagine with a toilet and a shower connected to it.
And it's right next door to her mom, so.
Now, how long have you been listening to what I've been putting out?
I've been listening, sheesh, on and off probably for a few years now.
So everyone gets the joy of the inner Steph after a while, right?
When you listen to me.
Yeah.
Now, was inner Steph facepalming, screaming, panicking, or anything like that about dating this girl?
If any part of you say, wow, there's a couple of red flags here, this might not be a great idea.
Yeah, when I saw the self-harm scars, I've been with people with that before, and it never blew up in my face like this, but I was cautious, I kept it in the back of my mind, but everything seemed great.
Like, it didn't, there weren't really any super, like, red flags.
Like, yeah, you might want to slow down.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Everything seemed great.
Yeah, it did.
She's been in an abusive relationship.
She self, she cuts the word worthless into her leg.
She's got an abusive mom.
She's trapped in a tiny Raskolnikov-style room next to her mom.
I got to assume that her ex-boyfriend's in jail.
For physically assaulting her.
Yes.
Are you telling me that everything outside of that... Everything just seemed fine.
Okay.
I should have chosen my words a little more... Maybe.
Don't pull the camouflage of, well, how could I have known?
Because that may make you feel better in the moment, but it makes everyone else, it puts everyone else in danger, right?
If you get mauled by a lion and you say, well, there was just no way to possibly know that the lion was there.
Yeah.
I guess you feel better in the moment, but it means everyone else gets mauled by lions.
And if you end up believing it, you're going to get mauled by lions again.
It's yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
What I should have said was everything in our relationship, It was unlike anything I've ever experienced before.
What that means is she's so disturbed, she's great in bed.
No, it wasn't just because I've definitely thought back on that.
Maybe it was just the physical connection.
How long after you started dating did you have sex?
I knew you were going to ask that.
It was actually the first night that we hung out that that happened.
Now, what do you mean that happened?
Like space aliens jammed you together with our selected crazy glue?
No, she came over the first time and we hit it off right away.
Honestly, I didn't expect it.
I never go into a first date expecting that to happen.
So we were just watching Hulu.
Yeah, it just kind of escalated.
I was like, all right, well, I mean, it's what she wants, all right.
I'm not gonna deny it.
Why?
Why would you not deny it?
Because it seemed like it was mutual.
Like I didn't... Oh, no, no, I get that it was mutual.
I understand all of that.
Yeah.
But you're having sex with a woman who's willing to have sex with a stranger on the first date.
Come on, dude.
That's not a healthy woman.
Yeah.
That's not a woman who has self-respect.
That's a woman who wants to love-bomb you because she feels like she's worthless.
So the only thing she has to do is carpet-bomb you with the V category.
Oh, Steph, it gets so much worse.
I'll get to it.
Of course it does.
But anyway, I'm just pointing out, I know it's tough for men to say no to sex.
I get that.
I mean, we have a biological imperative.
Like, I understand all of that.
But you're God above.
You have to.
She was like a marble statue, too, so I mean, that was part of it as well.
Oh, you mean she's very pretty?
Yeah.
Yeah, see, now there's something that's too good to be true.
Wow, she's a real hottie, and she wants sex on the first date!
Yeah.
Come on.
You ever hear this, you know, something's too good to be true?
Yeah, definitely.
It probably is.
Yeah, well, I learned it the hard way, I suppose.
But yeah, we started talking originally.
We met on Tinder.
So there's that.
That's the swipey one, right?
What?
That's the swipe one.
OK.
And I started to talk to her and everything.
You know, we hit it off and then we started talking on Facebook.
Like the next week, the week after that we met.
And then we were seeing each other only on the weekends because that's, you know, I work nights.
So it's the only time we could really see each other.
And she was coming over.
And it was just, it was really...
Like, I just had this connection with her that I've never had with anyone before.
No, no, no.
No, you didn't have a connection with her.
Like, you don't... Don't... Oh, come on, man.
Come on.
You can't expect me to believe that she's such a virtuous woman that you fell head over heels in moral, philosophical love with her.
She was hot and she drained your balls.
All right?
Come on.
I really thought it was because, like... I get that.
Men fall hard in love.
But it's lust.
But it wasn't just that like she came over like I remember there was one time a couple times she came over and like we didn't even have Sex it was just she came over and like we would I It was it's just stupid.
I like she sat on my lap and we were listening to music I'm like, you know, this is a song I think of whenever I look at you and I played it.
It's like a Lord of the Rings Enya song She's like, I can't believe you're playing in you.
Oh my god, cuz she loved that and then anyway, it's I We just kept listening to music and like just looking into each other's eyes and she was like, I was, you know, kind of, I didn't want to bore her or anything.
I'm like, we can do something else.
She's like, no, I'm, you know, I'm having the time of my life just, just looking at you.
And I was like, wow, I've never been told something like that.
That's it, like she's staring at you listening to Enya.
Well, it wasn't just that.
But like, it wasn't just that either.
I mean, that was the initial thing.
Holy memory of trees, Batman.
All right.
So what was, other than the sex bomb and the Enya, like, what was it that you felt was so great about this woman?
I just, I never enjoyed just being around someone like as much as her.
Like, I just loved... Okay, but that's you enjoying.
What about her?
She...
She felt the exact same way that I felt about her.
Yeah, that's her feelings.
I'm asking about her virtues.
What was it about her where you're like, well, this is a great woman.
Oh, okay.
Well, I mean, she was at the time when everything was great until like the very end.
It was just like, she was funny.
She was smart.
She was caring.
She was very considerate.
She was a great cook.
She liked the same music as I did.
She liked The same activities as I do.
Okay, so she's kind.
And... How did you know that she was kind?
Just how she interacts with people.
Like, on the street, there was a guy.
It was some... some bum.
He was outside and it was cold.
And she's like, I feel like I should at least... She didn't even have any shoes on.
She's like, should I just, like, go give that guy my shoes?
Or something?
Or, like, my socks?
Or, like, should I give him something?
And I'm like, no, he's...
He's actually lives next door or whatever.
I don't know.
He forgot his key or something, but like she just... She's kind because she wants to give a homeless guy her shoes?
Well, it wasn't just that.
I mean, that was just one example.
I mean... Hey, man, it's the example you're giving me.
Don't blame me.
It's the example you're giving me.
Well, don't take it that way.
It's like, dude, I'm asking you for an example and you give me an example.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well... Okay.
I'm happy to hear another one.
But how else did you know she was kind?
It's just the way that she treated me, and like, uh... Okay, so... I guess it would be... It was just how considerate she was of my feelings.
And, uh... Like, usually... I don't know, like... When I'm with a girl, and after... I can usually tell, like, after we have sex, whether or not I want to be...
around this person anymore.
So you do this, like, sex early on a regular basis?
Not always, no.
Hey, it's just what you said, man.
Don't say stuff to me and then back away from it, because that gets really annoying very quickly.
You said, after I have sex with the girl, I try and figure out if I want to spend any time with her.
So listen, just be honest, don't leave your actions in the lurch.
You know, if you're a good-looking guy, right, so you meet women, you have sex with them, and then you figure out if you like them, that's how you do it.
Now, I'm not saying always, right?
I'm sure there's a cashier at the supermarket who may have escaped your administrations, but that's where you are, right?
That's your approach.
Yeah.
What I mean is usually, like, afterwards, if I feel like I could, you know, I still want to be around them, it's like, okay, well, I might actually like this person, but if it's just kind of like, you know, if they left right now, I really wouldn't care, then I'm like, all right, well, I'm not going to Continue seeing this person, because there's nothing here.
Well, other than the fact that you've just had sex, right?
Yeah.
I mean, like, I don't really like... So, what the f... Dude.
What is going on in your life that you think this is somehow going to get you something good?
Like, banging women before you even find out if you like them.
You know.
That that's a terrible approach to finding love, and for sure it's going to keep any woman with self-respect far away, and it's just a matter of time until you get an STD, until you get a crazy bunny boiler stalking you, or which will get to the original subject of your email.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
Sex is not just some toy, right?
I mean, it's not just for your physical gratification, right?
It's a huge bonding mechanism, plus you're wrecking women, right?
You're wrecking the hearts of women because you bond, women bond, and then your bond gets completely screwed up and you become mistrustful and you lose the capacity to bond after a while, which means you can't ever have a stable family.
You're fucking things up around the world, not just for yourself, but for others, right?
Indeed.
I mean, tell me if I'm wrong.
We bond based on sex, particularly for K-selected people, right?
Sex releases the endorphins that cause the pair bonding.
And if you keep attaching, and it's not like Velcro, like you just attach and unattach, it doesn't matter how many times.
Yeah.
Oh, you're dead.
So what in your history, like, okay, we'll talk about the girl, but what in your history?
Has you thinking this is any kind of good idea?
Uh, I guess it's just because I've never had any, like, truly horrible experience with it yet.
Until now, I guess.
Well, no, no, no, no, hang on, no.
I meant your childhood, your family structure.
You're like, why, why don't you have a dude or a woman in your life saying, what are you doing?
This is like, this is terrible.
This is a terrible idea.
You may be a sex addict, right?
I mean, if you just go and have sex in risky situations without fear of the consequences.
I don't do it like that often to the point where I'm a sex addict.
How many women have you slept with?
Or had sex with?
Well, I did live in Germany for two and a half years while I was in the army, so I'd have to think about it.
But it's not outrageous.
It wouldn't be over It wouldn't be over 10, I would imagine.
Well, no, it wouldn't be over 15.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
So in your history, in your family structure, what was going on?
Oh, uh, my family's great.
Like I, I love my family.
They've always been here for me that my parents have been together for 28 years now.
Like, um, Everything.
They're very supportive of whatever I do.
Well, that's not good.
Well, they're very supportive of everything they know that I do, I suppose.
Oh, so you lie to them?
Well, I mean, I don't tell them everything about my, you know, sexual activity.
I don't think most people are that open with their parents.
But they would ask, wouldn't they?
Wouldn't they ask, are you dating?
Are you seeing anyone?
Yeah, they ask occasionally.
I tell them if I'm with someone.
No, but do you say, no, I mostly just have sex, or I mostly just sleep with women and then dump them if I don't like them?
No, I don't say that.
Why not?
I mean, are you not proud of it?
Do you not think it's a good idea?
Like if you won a race and your parents said, how did your race go?
You'd say, I won the race, right?
Yes.
So why wouldn't you share this I guess it was just, well, obviously I was just ashamed of things, but after this whole ordeal, like, I've actually grown a lot closer with my father, because I started talking to him about things I didn't know who else to turn to, really, and, like, I've talked to him about everything that happened, and it's just, like, stuff I've never talked to him about before, so... Right, so if your family is great,
I'm not saying they're not.
I'm just trying to understand this, right?
So, if your family is great, why can you not talk to them?
Or why didn't they train you, or raise you, I guess, to have more respect for yourself, your penis, women, their vaginas, the bonding mechanism, and so on, right?
I mean, they must know something about pair bonding, because, as you say, they've been together for, what, 28 years?
Oh yeah, their anniversary is coming up at the end of the month, yeah.
Right.
So why would they raise you, or why wouldn't they raise you, I suppose, to have more respect for yourself and women?
To not just use them, like a urinal or something, right?
Yeah, they did.
I just, I guess, I don't know.
I got used to doing things a certain way, and it never... Obviously, it's not healthy.
Wait, so they raised you a certain way, but you rejected it.
Is that right?
I'm not trying to corner you.
I'm just trying to logically work out the possibilities.
Yeah, and I'm thinking about it, so I don't know if reject is... Because, I mean, I would like to think That the way they raised me stuck pretty much.
It's just, like I said, whenever I'm with a girl and we, if we have sex right away, which isn't every time, but if we have sex right away and I feel like there's nothing there afterwards, then I just don't continue seeing them.
And then, I mean, it was only like a one night stand thing.
So I feel like that's not necessarily gonna damage someone because it was, He was just a fling that they'll forget about me anyways.
Like, it was nothing, probably, to them.
So... But, I mean, if I'm with someone for a reasonable amount of time and it ends, then I try to explain why it ended.
Like, I don't want them to have questions.
Like, think that they did something wrong.
Alright, so what's the longest relationship that you've had?
Two and a half years.
And why did that end?
Um... Well, it...
It started right before I came home from Germany.
It was a girl that I'd known for a few years and we kept in contact through Facebook and we got together as soon as I got home and she kind of pseudo cheated on me in a sense.
Like an emotional affair?
Technically, well, as she put it at the time, it's, we weren't together together, but she had... Oh, you were on a break?
No, no, no.
Like, uh, so we, we got together when I came home from Afghanistan and we had sex and we hung out and we were just friends and like nothing.
It didn't go farther than that.
Cause we knew that I was... You started with sex again?
Well, no, no.
I had, I'd, I'd hung out with her before.
No, but you, before you started dating, you had sex.
Yeah.
Like a handshake.
Hey, welcome home.
Hug.
Bang.
And then you hung out as friends and then you started dating later?
Yeah, like I came home from Afghanistan and we went out on a date and it happened and then we hung out.
It happened.
No, you made a choice, but go on.
You keep talking about this thing like it's weather, you know?
Next thing you know, sex blew over and I had to take shelter in someone.
I just, I don't know what happened, but yeah.
We had sex and then I, you know, we said we'll stay in contact with each other because we're still friends and everything.
We just knew that it wasn't a good idea to start a relationship with me going back to Germany for however long.
And then in February of 2015, she, we had already been talking and she like spilled her guts She talked to me about her feelings and that she wanted to be with me and all of this and I felt the same way but I was planning on waiting until I got home so I could do it obviously face to face because it means more than doing it over text on the internet.
Doing what?
Doing it over like spilling your guts through like a message.
Oh yeah, yeah, got it.
And plus I didn't know what she had going on and I mean I didn't really have anything What do you mean you didn't really have anything?
You mean you were... What does that mean?
Like, you were kind of dating?
No, I wasn't dating anybody, but I don't know if she was, you know, if she was seeing anyone.
But were you having sex with people?
Yes.
Okay.
But as soon as she told me... I've got to tell you, I think it's more than 10 to 15, just based on what you're saying, but all right.
But yeah, when she came forward with all this, that she just couldn't hold it in anymore, and she wanted to tell me how much I meant to her and everything, and she wanted to be with me, like, I obviously told her How I felt, and then that was it.
I stopped talking to everybody, deleted all the stuff off my phone.
I was done.
I just wanted to be with her.
So we kept talking and just planning things out.
We were going to go to New York when I came back.
Okay, let's not get into geographical details.
Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Okay, so you ended up getting together, and you were on again, off again for two and a half years, or how did that work?
No, no, no.
Well I was gonna get to the cheating thing.
Essentially what happened was I got a message in like May from some guy I didn't even know saying that he had been having sex with her for a year and a half and... Wait, you were together with her for two and a half years but she had a side piece for a year and a half?
This was before we started dating.
This was back in 2014.
This is before I came home from Germany.
So, at this time, like, we weren't... Sorry, so she was already having sex with this guy and she wanted to be with you?
Yeah, essentially what it boiled down to was... So she cheated on him to be with you and then she cheated on you?
No, they weren't together, like, essentially what it boiled down to was this guy... Sorry to interrupt, why is he messaging you saying he's having sex with this woman?
Because he's mad.
I was about to get to that.
He was like an old college friend and all she really Wanted him for his, like, friends with benefits, but I guess he wanted more, but she didn't want that.
And then he saw that we were obviously blooming into a relationship, and I guess he got jealous, so he messaged me to try to sabotage things.
Right.
So... So she used him for sex and broke his heart?
Yeah, essentially.
All right.
And you thought, hey, this woman who uses men for sex and breaks their hearts, Would be a wonderful person to get into a relationship with.
I was a lot more naive back then.
How pretty was she?
Not as pretty as this last one.
I would say she's like a good solid eight.
Right.
Okay.
But yeah, so that kind of blew up and then she apologized.
Did you know about this guy?
Not until he messaged me, no.
So she said she wanted to get together with you.
Did you know she was having sex with other men?
No.
So she didn't tell you the truth?
No, like that was the biggest thing.
So she lies and she cheats, but she's an 8.
Physically, an 8.
Yeah, I get morally, it ain't even on the plus side.
And so I decided to give her a chance for... Now, this is where I find it so confusing, and I'm really, really sorry to keep interrupting, but... Oh, it's alright, I don't mind.
I mean, you're parents!
Yeah, they never liked her from the start.
No, but did you tell them?
Like, oh yeah, you know, she's been having friends with benefits with this other guy.
He messaged me.
I didn't tell them that till towards the end.
Did you tell any of your friends?
I did.
I told my best friend.
And what did he say?
Well, I didn't tell him till later either.
Oh, so you just didn't tell anyone.
Yeah.
So you're making very isolated decisions here, right?
You're not leaning on the common wisdom of people who aren't being dick-napped, right?
Yeah.
Dick-napped being when you start thinking with your... I'm aware.
I know, just for other people who are new to this.
So you're making solitary decisions based on lust, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Not accessing any of the common wisdom of your parents or your friends or family or anything, right?
Because I knew if I told them about what happened, they would have said, you know, why would you even keep talking to her?
Like, just forget her.
You'll find somebody else.
And were you listening to me at this time?
No, not yet.
Right.
Because, you know, it's always kind of annoying to me when people are listening to me and then they call me in to clean up a giant mess that, you know, a 20 minute phone call could have prevented in the first place.
No, no.
I hadn't started to listen to anything philosophical or political or anything.
That came later.
So then you, did you, you said you were kind of on a kind of break two and a half years into it?
Like?
Well, what happens, as soon as I came back from Germany and I gave her a chance and we were together, like, We were together solid for about a year.
And then she got a job opportunity to move to the other side of the state.
And she accepted it right away, regardless of what that meant for us.
She just figured that I would follow her along over there.
And I went to college for about a year for computer science.
How long had you guys been going out at this point?
This was a year in.
And you were both exclusive, is that right?
Oh yeah, definitely, yeah.
Well, you hope.
Yeah, I don't think she would have cheated after we were definitely together.
Yeah, you're nearby, you know how to disassemble human beings, so yeah, maybe she's staying on the straight and narrow.
Okay.
But yeah, and she accepted this job opportunity and left and just expected me to come along with her because I was I was taking a break from college because I decided, you know, computer science wasn't for me and I didn't want to blow my GI Bill on another major just to be in the same boat a year down the road.
So I took a break and I was just working.
And initially I agreed that I would come along with her and then, you know, after I talked to my parents, they were like, you think maybe she's just doing this for her and she's not really Considering you at all.
She just figures you're gonna come along with her to maybe support her financially and I was I Hadn't thought about it.
Well, no support her financially, but she was going to get a job and you were not working, right?
At the time I was work, but I would have had to find a job whenever we moved out there, but Okay, maybe I'm missing something.
But if she's moving to a job to get a job, why would she need you to support her financially?
That's what I told them.
Okay She would have been able to make it on her own, but it would have been easier if I came with her and got a job.
Okay, so then she moves to the other side of the state, right?
Yeah.
And then what happens?
Well, originally we kind of had like a breakout, like I broke it off with her, and we had a long, you know, crying and, you know, the breakup talk.
Yeah, like the Seinfeld all night with beans stuff.
OK.
Essentially.
And I told her, you know, I was open to doing a long distance thing if she was open to it and she didn't want to do it.
So I broke it off.
Excuse me.
And then she messaged me later on after I left and was like, I'll do it.
Like, we can give it a chance.
Like, well, we can.
I'm willing to at least try it.
So I did.
And for the next year, I basically drove Every weekend to the other side of the state just to see her.
Oh God, how long was that drive?
About three and a half hours one way.
Right.
And the toll to go one way was $25 and I was driving a pickup truck that I had to spend $40 just to fill up the tank one way.
Heartbreak ain't cheap.
It's not.
So then after a year, so now we're two years in, what happened then?
Well, we kind of had like a spat a few months after I started going out there to see her.
And it kind of felt like things were getting a little distant.
And so I did something I usually never do.
And I looked at her phone while she was asleep to see if she had been talking to anybody.
And, you know, she's talking to her, the guy who she buys weed from.
Oh god.
It just gets better and better.
So she's also a drug addict?
Well, she's a stoner.
She smoked a lot of weed.
Okay, is she addicted to a drug?
She is.
Then she's a drug addict!
Indeed.
Okay, so it wasn't anything like, you know, they were gonna, like, have sex or have any kind of, like, he obviously wanted that but she wasn't interested in him.
Was she getting the pussy discount?
Like, I'm hot so I'll get weed for free or cheaper?
I don't know about all that, maybe a discount, but like, she basically said, you know, I know this guy, you know, that I'm with, he loves me more than the air that he breathes, but I'm just kind of over it, and I'm like, you know, that hurt a lot.
Wait, she's breaking up with you to her pot dealer?
That's what it sounded like, and so we had like a talk.
No, no, but she could also be dangling Her availability in front of him for some whatever, right?
I wouldn't put it past her.
Manipulative as hell.
Good thing she's wasting her youth, beauty and fertility on all this garbage.
Indeed.
When she hits the wall, especially as a pot smoker man, when you hit that wall you go from like Quicksilver to the moon in like three days, in terms of like facial features and wrinkles and you know, like suddenly it all catches up with you.
And yeah, stoners get that like dusty, craggy skin that looks like they've got some sort of dust bunnies or fur all over them.
And it's like, oh man, it's nasty.
Anyway, go on.
But yeah, so things were starting to distance from my own house.
And I'm so sorry to interrupt again, but how did you get into her phone?
Just, you know, pan or?
No, she didn't really have a lock on it.
And I didn't have one on mine either.
Yeah, I guess she just figured I wouldn't look.
Because, like I said, I'd never done that before.
And then did she play the, I can't believe you looked at my phone card!
Oh, I didn't tell her that I looked.
Oh, you didn't tell her?
No.
Because I thought, I don't know.
Was it over for you at that point?
It should have been, but I kept hanging on for whatever reason.
Yeah, because you had sex, so you were bonded, which goes against all reason if the woman is not quality, right?
Yeah.
So, let's fast forward.
You keep driving back and forth.
Did you ever check her phone again?
I did, later on.
Originally, when we had this big spat, I was talking about getting my own place, you know, back where I lived, and she didn't like that idea.
Wait, where were you living, though?
I was still living at home because I couldn't afford to move out and get my own apartment because I was spending all this money every weekend going out to see her.
Right.
So your whole life is stalled and on hold and you're not in college and you're just basically killing time during the week and then heading out on the weekend to blow money on the girl.
That's terrible.
Yeah, that's terrible.
Time's ticking away and you're getting older!
So she didn't like that originally when we had this bet and then I brought it up a few months later.
But wait, why wouldn't she like you moving out?
Because then I wouldn't be able to see her as much.
Oh, less money to spend on her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, why should you get your life ahead when mama wants dessert?
Okay.
It was strange because later on I brought it up and she was like fine with it.
I was like, you know, Why are you, you're so, you're really okay with this?
I thought before you said this was like a, you know, it wouldn't fit into your timeline if I got my own place.
And she just, I don't know if she really didn't remember it, or if she just acted like she didn't remember saying it.
She's a stoner!
What the hell is she supposed to remember?
She drank a lot of wine, too.
Did you have your name, like, printed on your forehead so she kept you straight from everyone else?
She liked wine as well, is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A lot of wine.
Yeah, women and wine, it's such a cliche.
It's such a cliche.
But yeah, so I started looking to get a place with my buddy and that ended up falling through because he couldn't afford it.
He had some stuff going on with his family.
Alright, let's keep the story moving about places you didn't get that's not essential.
So what led to the breakout?
Well, it was essentially because of that.
I told her, you know, I'm going to get my own place and I'm probably only going to be able to come up and see you like once a month.
And she wasn't okay with that.
I checked her phone again and the guy that originally she was banging that messaged me while I was in Germany... Oh, the year-and-a-half side piece, right?
Yeah, she messaged him to apologize to him.
Sure, yeah.
Well, you're moving out of the picture and she needs a new beta, right?
She needs a new person to pay the bills and prop her up and tell her she's wonderful and desire her and all that other empty stupid shit.
After I found out, I knew it was over then.
I was waiting for the right time and I basically, it was like a week later, I broke up with her.
I was there and I was leaving my laptop there at the time and I picked up my laptop and that's when she knew I was leaving.
And she's like, are you breaking up with me?
I was like, yep.
And I've already done the crying and everything before.
No, honey, I'd love to stay but my laptop wants to break up with you.
Yeah, no more free Hulu.
But she is asking why, and I finally told her that I'd been looking at her phone, and she just kind of didn't know what to say.
I was like, yeah, I know you were talking to the other guy too.
I saw that.
And I told her then, I was like, you know, I never really got over what you did when I was in Germany.
I've tried really hard, but I've never really been able to get over that.
And so she said, you know, it wasn't cheating or whatever.
I'm like, I think we both know it kind of was.
And then she was just really quiet and I left and then that was it.
And I don't feel bad.
I'm sure she was on the text chat with the other guys within 12 minutes of you leaving.
Yeah.
And then it's chilling how disposable we are to people without virtue.
Right.
Yeah.
And then.
Well, that was like in October.
And then in November, she was coming back to visit her dad, because he still lived around me.
And she said, you know, I'm coming back.
I would like to at least talk about things.
And I was like, all right, I guess that can't hurt.
Hey, you know what it can do?
It can hurt.
Once you've broken up, man, Band-Aid off, throw it out.
Like, there's no going back.
I hadn't learned that yet.
But yeah, she came back.
And of course, we Went out for drinks and one thing led to another and, well, we had sex.
And you made the choice to have sex again.
What are you, some sort of big penis domino?
Like, hey man, the wind was blowing, the tree fell over.
What can I tell you?
I had no choice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, that happened.
And then again, she, she kept messaging me from time to time and I was like, oh man, I really shouldn't.
But wait, were you guys back together after you?
No.
Okay.
We were like in limbo at that point.
Yeah.
Because sometimes when you break up with a woman she just wants to prove that you still find her attractive so she'll have sex with you and then wander off.
Just to like one-up and to leave you wanting?
Yeah, I guess.
But it doesn't sound like that because she was still messaging you and all that.
Okay.
Yeah, so then in December was the last time I saw her of 2017.
I went back to her place one last time just to talk about things.
I really didn't Intend on having sex again, but... Yeah, I'm sorry that it doesn't come up.
I wanted to go over and just like end everything, but... Yeah, except it was already over.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
So let's talk about what's going on.
I appreciate that backstory.
That's very helpful.
But let's talk about what's going on with the new girl, the cutter, right?
So let's talk about what you first emailed me about, just so people can get some context for why we're talking, other than I'm just very fascinated by people's lives.
But what's going on in particular now that's got you riled?
Should I keep going with how the relationship started taking off?
With this woman?
The new one?
Yeah.
Well, you bonded, you went into that codependent fusion phase where everything's wonderful, all your problems are solved, you're going to be together forever.
That's how you're supposed to get married.
I brought her to see my... because my dad plays in a band.
So it was two weeks of us seeing each other.
And I brought her to see that show.
She met my mom, my dad, and my sister.
And everyone loved her.
They liked her so much that they invited her over for Christmas dinner with the rest of my family.
Everyone loved her?
So she's really good at putting on an act, right?
Yeah, that's what my family... Because you know, people are!
People are very good at putting on acts.
I am so kind.
I want to give the homeless guy my shoes and socks.
She was, yeah, she was really great.
And I was just like, Oh my God, like this girl might be like it.
And that's chilling too, because it means that they know how to be good.
They know how to be nice.
They know how to be caring.
And that makes it all the worse when they're not.
Some of the stuff we like said to each other, like I remember it was that night when I actually asked her out.
Officially, because my family had been introducing her to their friends as my girlfriend, but I hadn't actually asked her out yet, so... Yeah, you'd only had sex, right?
You hadn't actually asked her out.
Yeah, and I was planning to do it that night anyway, but then they said that, so I was like, I don't want you to think I'm only asking this because of what my family said, and so we laughed about it, but then when I actually asked her, she started crying.
And she, like, she looked at me and she's like, you know, you're the one I've been waiting for my entire life.
Like, I've been trying to find you forever.
Oh, man.
And, like, she was really, like, When did you know about the cutting?
Uh, pretty, like, I knew about it before that, obviously, because I saw the scars and she told me about it.
So, I guess when you, wait, the first night, when you had sex, after meeting on Tinder, you saw the scars when you were having sex, is that right?
Yeah, I saw them and I kind of knew what they were because I've seen them before, but she didn't tell me about it until, like, maybe the third time we were hanging out, she opened up about it.
So you knew she was a cutter.
Before you even had sex?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you actually read the words on her leg?
No, see, you can't actually see the worthless until right after she gets out of the shower because it's pretty faded and even then you can't really read it.
So that's pretty well hidden.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's her body trying to warn you, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, I was convinced at that point because You know, she was sitting there crying to me about, like, how much I meant to her and everything.
I was like, this is really it.
And, like, my family even agreed.
But what about the cutting stuff and her family history?
Had you met her family at all at this point?
I met her mom, like, one time, and she's very self-centered.
She was just talking about herself the whole time.
Well, more than self-centered, because you knew how abusive she was, right?
Yeah.
And that's one thing she always says about her mom, is that she doesn't care about anything but herself.
Yeah, that's trying to get you to believe that she's different, right?
We'll see how that goes.
Forward now, did you ever have an impulse to get her away from her mother who had caused her so much unbelievable pain?
Yeah, we were hanging out at my place like regularly all the time until her car, she lost a, she got a flat and couldn't afford to get a replacement so she was driving around on a donut and I didn't want her to have to keep doing that.
So I started bringing her over to my place on, you know, Friday and then taking her back on Sunday, back to her place and then driving to work.
And then she felt bad for me doing that.
And I was like, you know, we can, we can hang out at my place if you want.
So you don't have to do all the driving back and forth.
So then we started hanging out at her place.
And I feel like that's when things kind of started to shift.
Was she not, I mean, she said she was broke.
I assumed she was working at something though.
Yeah.
She actually just had gotten a new job, like right at the beginning of Us seeing each other.
But why couldn't she afford a tire?
I mean, not that everyone has the cash in hand, but you should have some kind of credit or, you know... It wasn't just the tire.
Like, her whole car was pretty much shot at that point.
She's actually gonna get rid of it and just start taking the bus because she can't afford to buy a new car.
Right.
It's not legal to drive on a donut, though, is it?
Nope.
I mean, that's the emergency, I gotta get to a dealer, right?
Yeah, that's why I didn't want her to have to keep doing it.
So, that's why I started driving us everywhere.
So, she was broke.
But why was she broke?
She had a job, right?
Yeah, I mean, she only made like 13 bucks an hour.
So, it wasn't much.
And why?
Just give me rough, if she's like mid-20s, early-20s, like... 24.
Okay.
And had she completed her education?
Like, why was she making 13 bucks an hour?
She had been working and, uh, like doing inventory and like a book, not a warehouse, but it's essentially a book warehouse.
She's working on the back.
She had been working there for eight years.
Oh God.
And, uh, yeah, she wasn't making much money there.
Right.
So, But hey, she had a career, right?
It's a funny thing with this kind of thing.
It's like, oh honey, you know, you give up being a mom and a wife and running a household and being full of all that love and life and children and laughter, but it's okay.
You can give all of that.
Don't worry, we'll put you, us, in the back end of a dusty book depository.
Yeah.
And you can fondle dead trees all day.
Yeah things kept going and I just kept getting stronger and stronger.
I just I was so sure of her and like it was it was one of those things I was just like I couldn't believe I found somebody like this and that I was feeling the way that I felt about him and that they felt the same way about me.
It was like I like I really made it.
I was really convinced.
And then.
And had she done any therapy or tried to deal with any of these childhood issues at all?
She did mention that she was in therapy.
Oh currently?
Like she was while you were dating her?
No, no.
She wasn't in therapy because she couldn't afford it and she had to stop the previous year, I think.
Okay.
For instance, my mom, we were going out to buy baby stuff for her brother because her brother was having a baby with his wife and I told my mom because she was asking what we were doing that day and I told her and she misread it and thought that we were going out shopping for her, that she was pregnant.
Which... She actually might have been at that point, but... She was over the moon about it.
She went and ran and told my dad, like... Your mom was over the moon about you being pregnant?
Is your mom Christian?
Yeah, like she... Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Aren't you supposed to be married?
Well, yeah, but we were going... She would have assumed, obviously, at the point if she was pregnant, that we were going to get married.
But, like, that's what I'm saying, that's how much my family, that's how much my mom liked her, that she assumed that she was pregnant and she was, like, really excited about it.
Did your mom know anything about the cutting, the scars, the history?
No.
So why would you hide all of that from your parents?
You're joining this woman into your family, potentially.
Don't you think your parents have a right to know?
You're bringing this woman's mother into your family.
I guess I felt like that was like a really touchy subject and that they would, I would bring it up to them when the time was right.
I didn't know when that would be, or maybe I was just avoiding doing it.
I don't know.
No, you just didn't want to, and you didn't want anyone to interfere with the high you were getting from this woman with reality, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does she do any drugs?
She smokes weed too, but not to the, Same extent that my previous ex did.
I wouldn't even call her a stoner.
She has it on hand, but she just does it like, I don't know, maybe on the weekends or whatever.
Once or twice a week.
And of course, she drinks wine too, though.
I did notice that.
She usually had wine on hand as well.
Okay, so then what happened?
We started hanging out at her place more often and that's when the first real, like we had an issue about sex.
And it was at first because I, I'm not, I'm not starting to like blow my own, you know, to my own horn or anything.
It's because I went for so long.
She didn't like that because she would, you know, I would come over and we would have sex and then she'd be worn out and she wouldn't want to do it for the rest of the weekend.
So you're like Bernie Rubber, all kinds of places, right?
She's getting sore and chafey?
Yeah.
So I was like, all right, that's fair.
So I got to like rein it back in.
And so she was more about having sex multiple times in the weekend instead of just once for a really long time.
So I was like, okay, I understand that.
And so we started doing that.
And then it got to the point where I would come over and we would have sex on Friday or Saturday.
And then I would have to leave Sunday and I was still kind of expecting us to have sex again because I feel like that's not, you know, that's kind of normal to have sex twice in a weekend if you're in your 20s.
And we had been doing that at my place so I just kind of got used to that.
But she brought it up that she started to feel pressured to have sex on Sundays because I, you know, I was expecting it and then that kind of bothered her.
So I was like, okay.
I'm sorry.
I didn't, I didn't mean for that to happen.
I was not trying to pressure you.
So I started to stop at like advancing on her.
And I just kind of let her come to me from there on out.
And it got to the point where we're only having sex like once a weekend.
And I was just doing that because you know, whatever would make her comfortable.
And, um, there was a particular instance where we were going over to my mom's Birthday and we were gonna go out to eat and I came over and she was getting ready and I had no Expectation to have sex at this point at all because she was you know, she's getting ready to go out to dinner I was sitting on the bed and she came over and sat on my lap and we started kissing and I was like, ah We should we should probably wait and do this later.
You know, we have to be the restaurant.
She's like well You know, how late are you willing to be like 10 or 15 minutes?
I was like, alright, so, you know, we had a quickie and then that was that was it That's all the sex we had for the rest of the weekend and I was kind of I didn't say anything about it, but I thought it was kind of strange.
It almost felt like she was just getting it out of the way.
So then I started to think maybe it was me, maybe I was doing something wrong.
But she was like, no, no, no, it's not you.
It's just, you know, I'm really fine with maybe only having sex once a week because something happened in my past and it's made me not enjoy having sex as much.
Yeah.
I don't know what that is.
You don't know what it was.
But yeah, that's, you know, when people are self-cutting, it's usually because of more than verbal abuse.
In my obviously amateur opinion, people who have that kind of punitive relationship with their bodies, it's usually something a lot more serious than just verbal abuse, which is of course serious enough.
Yeah, and so after she told me that, like I said, I didn't poke her prod because I didn't want to bring something up and make her relive it.
So you had effectively been neutered, right?
happened to her but uh from there on out i was pretty much like i just i didn't advance from there like if we had sex was because she came on to me or whatever so so you had effectively been neutered right yeah okay and and listen i mean obviously women don't have to have sex with you but what what should happen is is if you want to have sex you should say i want to have sex i'll
Yeah.
But the idea that you can't even... Like, you can't... I felt bad if I... You can't approach the woman with the desire for... That's not... That's not right.
That's... That's not right.
Yeah, she kind of made me feel bad about, like, even, like, trying to, like... She said at one point, because I'm very physically affectionate, you know, like, grabbing your butt or whatever, coming behind you and kissing you, like, my whole family's...
Like that, we're very physically affectionate people.
And I don't do that to try to get sex from her.
I was just doing it because... Yeah, it's just playful.
I get it.
I love you.
You know, that kind of thing.
And in the beginning, she was totally fine with that.
Like, I even remember her joking... But she's luring you in!
Yeah, she... You know, it's like the fish with the fishhook saying, well, the beginning part tasted a lot like lovely worm, and then there's this bloody great shaft going through my jaw.
Yeah, and I...
I asked her the one time, because I'd been smacking her butt a lot, and I was like, you know, that doesn't bother you that I do that, does it?
She's like, no, no, no.
In fact, you know, if you ever stop smacking my butt, I'm going to divorce you.
I was like, ha, ha, ha.
But then later on... But you weren't married, right?
I shouldn't break up with you.
No, no.
Okay, got it.
But she brought it up to me that she felt like I over-sexualized everything and that I always made things about sex.
Well, the woman who sleeps with you on the first date is complaining that you're over-sexualizing?
That's what I'm saying.
No, this is a woman, it's called chameleon, right?
She's a chameleon.
Which means that she will be what you want in the beginning, but she can only keep up the facade for so long, right?
It's like, you know, if you're standing in a stress position, right?
You're standing tippy toes, or you're seated against a wall, or you're sitting in an invisible chair, it's like, you can keep it up for a while!
But not too long, because it's a stress position, and so if she's Morphing into something that every man wants, you know?
This wonderful, perfect girl who likes Enya, does it all the time, and likes it when I grab her butt, and gets along well with everyone, and wants to give her shoes to home.
Like, she can keep this up, but it's a stress position for her, which means the facade is going to crumble at some point, right?
Yeah.
Okay, so then what?
After that, after she told me that, I stopped touching her as much.
But then I found out later that that made her feel like I was ignoring her.
Yeah.
So now you're in the no-win situation, right?
That's one of the things she said.
That's the thing, though.
She never brought up any of these apparent issues while we were together.
She brought them up after she broke up with me and then didn't want to talk about it and never expanded on anything.
But you also didn't ask her what had happened in the past that made her leery of physical contact in that way, right?
Well, yeah, because I was kind of afraid Yeah.
you know, poke and prod into something like that.
I figured if she really wanted to open up to me about it, then she would have done it, kind of like she did with her mom.
Like it took her a while, but she did. - No, but the mom thing, listen, the mom thing was not to reveal her past to you.
The mom thing was to gain your sympathy and have your white knight for her.
- Yeah, I guess. - Whereas the other thing would be too close to her probably feeling like damaged goods.
And, uh, anyway, we're all speculating.
Okay.
So then what happened?
So then that came into like, uh, towards the end of things.
Uh, I had noticed whenever I came over, she would be cleaning a lot.
Like she would, I'd come over and I'd sit down and watch TV and she would just be cleaning pretty much the whole time until later on when we would go out.
To see her friends or go out to the bar or karaoke or whatever.
And, like, I would just basically afterwards be sitting around and, like, kind of waiting to see if she would want sex.
But again, like, I didn't want to say anything.
I didn't want to try to initiate it because I didn't want to make her feel like she was pressured because of what she had already told me.
And the last weekend we spent together was Valentine's Day weekend.
I took off Thursday and Sunday because at the time I was working Sunday to Thursday so we could have off like a nice five-day weekend together and so Valentine's Day came around and I was planning on getting her she okay so she doesn't believe in Valentine's Day She says it's a stupid made up holiday by the card companies and it's, you know, it's bullshit.
And she told me to like, don't get me anything.
I'm not going to get you anything.
I just want to see you.
Like, that's all I want.
I just want us to be together on Valentine's day.
I was like, okay, that's, you know, that's fair.
And you know, it wasn't like the usual like woman thing where they're like, no, no, don't get me anything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It wasn't like that.
It was just straight up.
You're like, don't get me anything.
I was like, okay.
So I was at least going to get her, there's like a, You know, a fast food place.
I won't say the name.
I don't know if I can or not, but like they were doing a Valentine's Day special where they had a heart shaped box full of little chicken sandwiches.
I was going to get her that at least.
But then they were out of the box.
So I was like, OK, that's interesting.
All right.
She likes chicken, does she?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I was going to get her that, but they were out of the box.
So I just I asked her when I was coming over.
And this is like the worst thing about this entire thing, this entire situation was she made me feel like I didn't know what happened or like she made me second guess myself like everything made me like rack my brain trying to remember things like if I was misremembering.
Oh like she would she would gaslight you like don't get me anything why why wouldn't you get me something?
Oh my God, yeah.
That's because she's a victim, an unprocessed victim of verbal abuse.
And setting up traps for all of this kind of stuff, listen, I don't mean to butt in or anything, but I know this stuff very well, right?
So, with my mom, she'd give me confusing instructions.
And if I would ask her, To clarify, she'd get mad at me like I already told you.
But then, if I did something, it would inevitably turn out to not be exactly what she wanted.
She'd get mad at me at that.
So there's a certain kind of pathology that sets up these elaborate traps that you can't win.
I don't want you to be coming on to me physically because it's pressure.
And it's like, you know, I feel so rejected when you don't approach me physically.
You can't win.
You can't win.
And it's not conscious, usually.
It's just, I don't know, it's a way of the virus of radical uncertainty reproducing itself in someone else's mind.
But anyway, okay, so you're going over, you don't have the chicken box of hearts, the heart-shaped chicken box, and then what?
So I asked her, because I always would ask her if I was going to stop and get food on the way over, if she wanted anything.
And this time I asked if she wanted any grub, as I said.
I remembered her saying, no, it's okay.
I have food here.
And this is like one of the only instances she would ever give me of wrongdoing.
And I brought that up to her and she finally like, she came back and gave me the screenshot of her actually saying, it's up to you.
I have food here.
So I, it wasn't actually, she didn't actually say no, but she didn't say yes.
I know this seems like a really minuscule thing to talk about, but it's one of the only things she ever gave me.
So you thought she said, I don't need food, I have food here.
What she actually said was, it's up to you, I have food here.
Yeah.
Still not a commandment to get food.
Exactly.
So she tells me, you know, it's up to you, I have food here.
So I noticed that she has food and I was like, all right.
So I stopped and just got a burger and some fries and I ate the fries on the way there and I got there and I had the burger still.
So I was sitting down to eat it and she, you know, seemed visibly upset, to say the least, and she went out to have a smoke.
And she came back in and she was really quiet.
You mean a cigarette for her?
Yeah, no, she smokes cigarettes too.
Cigarettes and weed.
OK, got it.
She came back in and I kept asking her if everything was okay.
Oh, you get the cold treatment?
Yeah, and she finally opened up and she's like, you know, I can't believe you came over here and you did that.
Like you just sat down and you pulled out a sandwich.
Like you didn't give me anything.
I was like, you didn't tell me you wanted anything.
You know, I asked you and you said you didn't say yes.
And you told me that you had food here.
I thought you were just going to eat something here.
Like, why would you tell me?
And did you get that this was all about her mom?
She said her mom only ever thought about herself.
And so she's picking up on this and she's trans.
It's all about her mom.
It's nothing to do with you or the burger or anything like that, right?
I don't know if you thought that at the time, but that's... No, I didn't think about that at the time.
And so... Yeah, she's accusing you of only thinking about yourself.
And what was her biggest complaint about her mom?
That her mom only thinks about herself, right?
Yeah, that actually will play into something here in a bit.
Anyway, she kind of got over it a little bit and we ordered pizza, so she was fine.
But, you know, there wasn't any sex or any physical contact, really, that night.
And then Friday... Now, I just want to point out, like, to those who are listening and to me, you're really complaining about a lack of sex.
And what that tells me is that that's the main reason you're there.
Uh, no, I know.
Yeah.
I'm just saying, I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying how it sounds.
And I don't think it's just to me.
Yeah.
I'm sure when I listen back on this, it'll seem like that, but it, the only reason that I'm focusing on that is because this entire time, whenever we were together, that was the only issue really that she ever brought up to me.
Like that, like we never had an argument.
We never yelled at each other.
We never, the only thing that was ever brought up, was, like, our squabbles about sex.
Like, that was it.
So, like, that's the only thing I really knew to go off of.
Because she never gave me any other reasons, or any example.
Okay, alright.
So, there's no sex, and you're sitting there, and things are okay, right?
But not friendly, not hostile, right?
Yeah.
So, Friday came and went, and then Saturday, we were going to another one of my dad's shows, and everything, like, that was the most affectionate she was, like, the whole weekend.
She was like, we were holding hands when we was there and she was kissing me and everything.
And so I really thought everything was fine at that point.
She was over the Valentine's day thing.
And like, she was, we were talking to my parents about, cause we were about to move in together and how excited we were and how we're going to watch, you know, fireworks from the rooftop.
Cause there's a baseball stadium nearby that does that, yada, yada, yada.
And, uh, everything was fine the whole night.
We had a great time.
And then we stopped and got food, and we came home, and I was sitting in bed, eating my burrito that I got.
And we were waiting for the heat to come on, so it was still pretty cold.
And she was underneath the cover, shaking, like, and she was like, ah, it's so cold!
And I looked over to her while I was eating my burrito, and I had a mouthful of burrito, so I didn't say anything, and I looked back at the TV for a second, and it couldn't have been more than two seconds.
Like, I didn't have... You don't care about me being cold!
Oh my god!
Like, I had never... I had never heard her speak like this.
Like, in general, not just... Yeah, you got to the core.
Right, yeah.
You got past all of the fakery, all of the chameleon, you got to the core.
Let alone to me, like, she flipped out on me.
Like, I don't know if I... Can I curse?
You can curse.
Okay.
Like, she was like, you're a fucking dick!
And I just, like, my jaw dropped.
And, like, I just, I dropped my burrito.
Like, I stopped eating.
Like, I, I was so shocked.
She's like, yeah, you're a fucking dick.
You don't give a fuck about what I'm going through.
And I'm just like, I didn't know how to react.
I was so, like, just dumbfounded by it.
I just, I didn't know what to do.
And, like, a couple seconds went by, uh, you know, I came out of it and I tried to touch her and be like, what are you?
Are you okay?
And she's like, no, no, no.
Don't touch me now.
Like, don't, don't try to talk to me now.
And then of course it was late at night at that point, so she didn't want to talk about anything, so we just kind of went to bed in that state, which wasn't great.
Did you, I mean, some people can't get sleep when there's that kind of stuff going on?
Oh yeah, I was tossing and turning, because I wanted to talk to her, but she wouldn't, she didn't want to talk.
So the next day came, Sunday, and things were a little tense in the morning.
You think?
And you're tired too, because you haven't slept well, right?
Yeah.
So her friend came over and everything was fine when her friend was there.
It was like back to normal.
And we played a card game and we were, you know, she, we were actually planning on going to a music festival together.
And so her friend was teaching me how to braid her hair for the festival.
And like, it was just like, okay, maybe, maybe that was just a little flare up or something.
I didn't know what to expect.
Still felt like things were tense, like maybe we were going to have to talk about something, obviously.
But when a friend left and we went to bed that night, she looked at me, she's like, you know, I love you and I want to spend the rest of my life with you and everything.
But, you know, I don't really want to snuggle tonight because my back hurts because I guess she had slept on it weird the night prior.
And I was like, OK, you know, that's fair.
We laughed about it.
And then I remember I like I had my hand on her at one point in the night.
She slapped it off.
So I was like, okay.
And I put a little pillow between us cause I just wanted to give her space.
And then in the morning I woke up and she had already been up and, uh, she was just kind of looking at me and she's like, you know, I love you, but I just kind of want to spend the rest of the day by myself to like clean and everything.
And I just, I was like, all right.
Cause at this point we'd already spent four days together and she's pretty independent person.
So I thought it was fair that she just wanted some space.
I just want to pause here for a sec just to lay on a little bit of wisdom here which is there's a really really dangerous kind of person in the world and that's the kind of person they sit there and they brood and they just talk themselves into stuff and they don't communicate it with you and it's like Scott Adams talking about like the two movies like you're watching a movie where she's cold and
You look at her, you glance back at the TV, and she, you know, you're like, oh, I can't really do anything about it.
I'm sorry, but, you know, the heat will be on, blah, blah, blah, right?
But she's got this whole thing going where you're just a cold-hearted person that she can verbally abuse, and then she puts on a show because her friend's over, and then she gets back to brooding.
The people who construct their own alternative realities of what happened, and maybe you're one of them too, I don't know, because we're just talking for the first time, but you end up with two people on completely different planets.
She probably is going there and obsessing about all the things you did in the past and talking herself into all of this frenzy about you and all that, and you're not part of that conversation, right?
You're not invited to the teardown of your image in her mind.
The brooders and the people who talk themselves into stuff are almost impossible to get along with, because by the time that brooding erupts, they're already so certain that you can't talk them out of stuff, and they're so certain that if you try and talk them out of stuff, they think that you're gaslighting them, right?
Anyway, I just want to sort of point that out, that the people who brood rather than talk, you know, because the first time she thought that you were being selfish, she should have said, hey, that, you know, that kind of sung a little there, what you did, like, let's talk about that, right?
But if she lets stuff pile up, and the people who are chameleons are really bad at this, Because, oh, they're really good at this, I guess you could say.
So I just wanted to sort of point that out, that, you know, this is like get-out-of-Dodge stuff.
But anyway, go on.
Yeah, so I guess I should say, also, I kind of noticed at the beginning she had, like, abandonment issues.
I didn't know why at the time.
Her dad?
What was her dad?
Oh, no, her dad and her, like, I met him once.
He's a really great guy.
He's really, like, a loving guy.
He really cares about his family.
He's just, I guess in the past he struggled with Wait.
Oh, come on, man.
Oh my god.
It's like you've never listened to this show before when you feed me that garbage, man.
Come on.
He was a great guy.
He married a horribly verbally abusive woman and his parenting was such that his daughter ended up carving self-abusive terms into her own living flesh.
And he was a drug addict, but he was a great guy who cared about his family.
Fuck, man.
Come on.
Don't make me lose hope that this show does anything in the world.
I can be an example unto others.
But, yeah.
So, the abandonment issue.
So, she would always, like, say things, like, you know, kind of jokingly, but I felt like it wasn't a joke at times.
She'd be like, you know, are you gonna get, like, do you really like me?
I was like, yeah, yeah, of course I like you.
And she's like, really?
I was like, yeah.
And she's like, well, suspicious, you know?
And, like, we'd laugh about it.
Well, because she knows herself better than you, right?
There's two fears that men and women have.
Women have the great fear that men are only there for the sex, and men have the great fear that women are only there for the money.
That's the great fear, right?
So when somebody says to me something like that, I'm like, well, if you don't think you're likable, or you doubt that you could be likable, well, you know yourself a whole lot better than I do, so I'm just going to listen to you.
So like she would say that it was really only in the beginning until I, you know, I kept having to reassure her.
I was like, yeah, no, I really like you.
And, uh, so I didn't find out later, but I guess the reason that is because she was in a relationship for a few years and this guy up and decided that he didn't want to marry her or have kids with her.
And then it just kind of ended.
He just.
He just up and decided?
Well, I mean, that's really all she said.
I mean, this woman calls you a fucking dick out of nowhere.
That you're selfish.
You only think about yourself or whatever the hell it was, right?
Yeah.
But then, you know, some guy just out of nowhere decided not to marry her.
Well, maybe she unleashed this torrent of verbal abuse on him and he was like, whoa, I think I'm seeing your mother here and she ain't as pretty as you.
And I guess she also attempted Where she was going to attempt suicide at one point because she was standing on top of the roof.
When did you find out about that?
That wasn't until later.
That was almost at the end.
And, um, wow.
Yeah.
She said that her boyfriend at the time, I think it was the guy who abused her.
Like he talked her down and got her off the roof, but then he was just like, nope, I'm done.
Like he called her brother and made her brother come up and get her.
He's like, I can't, I can't deal with her anymore.
And, uh, Yeah, it's funny how abandonment issues or being rejected will often coincide with threatening suicidality.
Yeah, so that morning when I left, I was going to ask her, you know, is everything okay?
Do we need to talk about something?
But she reassured me that it was okay.
We had been talking about going back and hanging out at my place because we just felt like it was better there.
It was just a better environment.
We had more space.
We had more privacy.
And I was like, yeah, I feel like we haven't had some of these hangups that we had here, you know, when we were at my place.
And she agreed.
And then she was even talking about making, you know, soup, French onion soup.
It's one of her favorite things that she'd make.
And I was like, okay, that sounds good.
You know, we'll come down this weekend and you can make soup and it'll be great.
Now, why are you so passive in all of this, though?
Like, you're asking her if she wants to talk.
Like, where's the, no, no, no, we gotta talk.
I don't know.
Like, you're oddly tentative here.
Like, you're a beta beggar, right?
Like, I mean, what's with, like, you know, you know you need to talk.
She just, she unleashed a torrent of horrible, potentially relationship-ending verbal abuse on you, and you're like, French onion soup?
That sounds great!
Yeah, no, I just, well, that's one thing my parents always say.
They tell me that I'm too nice.
Like, I guess she just reassured me.
No, you're not nice enough!
Like, it's not nice to not be present in a relationship because it means the relationship is going to go off the rails.
You need two people fact-checking each other to stay on track in a relationship.
If you abandon that, you know, let me give you a stupid example from the army, right?
So you're a scout and you see a bunch of troops heading towards I actually wasn't scared.
Oh, you were?
Okay.
This is perfect then.
And so you see a bunch of troops moving towards your position and the sergeant says, no, there's no enemies for miles around.
And you're like, well, you know, I don't want to contradict him.
You know, that's a great way to get everyone killed, right?
It's not nice.
Well, I don't want to contradict my sergeant.
It's like, yeah, well, that's not actually very nice.
And there's lots of people there who don't want bullets between their eyes who do want you to contradict the sergeant, right?
I guess I just wanted to believe that everything was okay, so it was just that much easier for me to be reading.
No, no!
No?
No, absolutely not.
If you're listening to this show, I'm going to give you high IQ just by default.
So I'll tell you why you didn't want to confront her.
Because she's nuts.
And you didn't want to find that out.
Come on, you know it as well as I do.
You know that if you started to confront her, if you started to say, wait a minute, you cannot Swear at me.
You cannot call me these horrible names.
That is absolutely unacceptable in a relationship.
I will not put up with it.
It will not happen.
If you want a guy like that, you need a totally different kind of guy.
A guy without a spine, without a shred of self-respect.
That is not going to happen.
Now, I'm happy to talk about what led you to this place of verbal abuse, but only on the absolute Certainty that if it ever even comes close to happening again, I'm gone.
Yeah, I feel like now if I would have said that she probably would have just doubled down on me being a dick.
Right!
So you didn't want to see that if you were assertive and held to any kind of reasonable standards that she was just going to get more abusive.
You didn't want to see that she was kind of like a traumatized and victimized in the past but in the present kind of a horrible bully, right?
Yeah.
Okay, so don't give me this, you were nice.
You weren't being nice.
It's not nice to let people abuse you because it just reinforces their bad habits, right?
It's called enabling, right?
Oh, well, you know, if you want some crack, I guess I'll go get some for you, right?
I mean, it's not being nice.
You just didn't want to find out how crazy she was because deep down, you already knew.
Yeah.
Right?
Okay, so then what happened?
So then I left and we kept talking during the week and everything was civil, like it was friendly as normal.
And her friend was going on a trip and she had to take her to the airport that weekend.
So we didn't see each other on Friday because they were out getting their nails done.
Now dude, hour 20, I hate to rush you, but we do have to get to the actual subject of the email.
Yeah.
OK, so you're going to have to fast forward me to you broke up and then what happened?
Like there was was there a big blow up or just fall apart?
That's the thing.
That's what I was getting to.
The weekend came by and I was Saturday morning and I was texting her.
She was really like short and distant.
I finally like I asked her, you know, what's wrong?
Is something bothering you?
And she said, well, yeah, kind of.
I've been kind of having doubts whether or not we should move in together and even if we're compatible.
And so like this blindsided me and I was just like, How long have you been going out at this point?
This is almost the end of February, so... And she's kind of right.
Listen, and you caused this to some degree.
Obviously, she's an agent, but if you want your 50%, it's because you weren't willing to confront her when she was being abusive.
And so she's like, oh man, if I'm with this guy, he's such a pushover that he's going to bring out the worst side of me.
Yeah.
I mean, I did confront her then afterwards, but, uh, yeah, so I was just, I was, she was, she told me very little about why she thought we were incompatible.
And it was because she said I was really inconsiderate to her these this past weekend, which had to do with the burrito and the Valentine's day thing.
And then she said, and I just realized that, uh, you've, it's always been kind of happening and I've just been looking past it and I'm like, what are you talking about?
You know?
Yeah, she's talked herself into this whole mythology where you're just a selfish guy.
And I've pleaded with her for like days to try to just give me an example of like anything that I did wrong.
And I told her, look, you know, I brought up what I knew of, which was being overly affectionate and the sex thing.
And then she got mad at me.
She's like, the only thing you can, you know, Remembers the sex and I'm like that's because it's the only thing we ever talked about like we didn't talk about anything else And then she she can't wait talk about or full fight about Well, no, we never really fought about anything.
Like I said, we never had an argument the only thing that was like a constant Like being brought up and worked on was the sex.
Okay, that's that's why I'm saying like I'm not I'm not trying to seem like that's the only thing I'm focused on that's just the only thing I knew to go off of because okay, so why are you begging her to give you examples when she can't I I just, I wanted answers.
I wanted closure, at least.
Well, at first, I wanted to try to fix things.
I wanted for her to talk to me, and she wouldn't even talk to me on the phone.
Okay, so then what happened?
So, it got to be Sunday, and I was finally like, you know, I got to talk to my landlord.
I got my lease put to a month-to-month thing, so we don't have to rush to move out anymore.
We don't have to go to the music festival.
We can just slow down and just focus on things.
You know, no more rushing.
And she didn't answer me.
And then she didn't say anything to me for like two days.
And then finally she sent me a message saying, you know, I know you really want things to work out, but I just don't see it happening.
Sorry.
I wish you the best.
Like the most standard breakup text you could send to somebody like all that.
And I just, I couldn't believe it.
And at this point, what, how long was the relationship?
That was at the very end of February.
So that would have been, If we were together, that was like three months.
Okay.
So, like, I couldn't believe that she was really doing that to me.
Like, she wouldn't talk to me on the phone at all.
Like, I really meant that little to her that she was willing to end it like that.
Do you think she found another guy?
No, no.
I think it had to do with the pregnancy thing at that point.
Okay, yeah.
So when do you think she knew she was pregnant?
Well, I mean...
She's going to be two months along at the end of this month, so when she broke up with me, she would have had to have been around a month along.
So I would assume that she knew by then, or at least heavily suspected it.
Maybe even suspected it that last weekend we were together.
I don't know.
It depends when, obviously, her cycle is and all this kinds of stuff.
She also might have done a test, right?
Yes, that's where I was getting to.
Wait, how did she get pregnant, though?
That's another thing I was getting to.
There's a side for you!
Yeah, okay.
So, basically, a week or two had gone by of me just trying to get her to talk to me, and she wouldn't give me the time of day, really.
She made her mind, and then Thursday came along, and she basically told me that she was terrified that she might be pregnant.
And the first thing I said, I'm so sorry.
I just, I thought, I thought we were going back about like, did you guys have unprotected sex?
Yeah, I was going to get to that, but I mean.
Okay.
Cause I thought we were going back and now we're going forward.
So forget the forward thing.
Let's just go back.
So you did have unprotected sex, right?
Yeah.
The very first time we had sex, I asked her cause I had condoms.
I was like, should I wear a condom?
She said, no, you're good.
So I assumed that that meant she was on birth control.
Right.
Doesn't protect you from STDs, but all right.
Yeah.
So, and then, you know, I, I pulled out anyway the first time, cause I just, you know, just to be sure.
And, um, although that's not sure, but anyway, go on.
Yeah.
But anyway, we, that was the only time I did that.
And from there on out, like we, she never brought up a condom or anything or, you know, you never talked about it.
You never said, well, what are you on?
yeah I've never never said anything but that's one of the things that she brought up recently she swears up and down that she told me right from the bat that she was on birth control and I'm like whoa whoa you never told like you okay let's just say she's right about everything and I'm this forgetful guy who you know can't he misremembers everything lives in an illusion okay there's no guy on the face of the earth that would forget being told that his girl is not on birth control like Sorry, you just switched.
So, she said at the beginning, she said from the very beginning she told you she was not on birth control.
No, yeah, that's what she said.
She said from the very beginning that... That you knew she wasn't on birth control of any kind.
I swear she didn't tell me that.
She did not say anything.
She said, we're good or you're good, but she didn't specifically say she was on birth control.
Yeah.
All right.
So if you had a lot of sex, why do you think it took her, like unprotected sex, and she wasn't on birth control, then why do you think it took her so long to get pregnant?
Well, that's what I was getting to with the ovulation thing.
She brought that up too.
She's like, you always were pressuring me for sex when I was ovulating.
And I brought it up every time when I was ovulating.
And I was just like, You brought that up one time, and when she did bring it up, I thought it was strange because that typically doesn't happen when you're on birth control.
Wait, so at one point, you wanted sex and she said, no, I'm ovulating.
Yeah.
And it didn't strike you that she may not be on birth control?
At that point, I was like, that's all right.
But as soon as she told me that, I backed off immediately.
I don't understand.
You think she's on birth control and she says we can't have sex because I'm dropping an egg like a Hindenburg.
Yeah.
And so after that, and you're like, well, you know, I don't want to say anything.
I was kind of sketchy about that.
And then I guess it would have had to have happened in January, obviously.
And, uh, cause I was wondering about it, if she was going to bring that up again.
And I figured she didn't say anything.
You're like, you're like two little kids playing with flour.
Seriously.
Like what the fuck?
No, seriously.
Let's just pause for a second here.
Like, what are you doing?
I mean, she's telling you she's ovulating and you don't even talk about it?
What the hell?
Like, oh, was there something on Hulu that was too important?
Like, what are you doing?
These are essential conversations to have.
Are you going to get a baby?
Seems kind of important to me.
She says she's ovulating and you don't talk about it.
And this was in January?
This was in December when she brought it up.
So, very early on, she tells you she's ovulating.
And you're like, dude, you have got to stop being so passive.
And, uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Like, that's... Like I said, that's the only time she brought it up, obviously.
And also, if you think she's on birth control and then she tells you you're ovulating, that's important to bring up as well.
And there's a reason why you didn't, is you didn't want to interfere with the endorphins of sex and love and fusion and all of this garbage, right?
Yeah.
All right.
So you're a bit of an addict.
I don't know about sex, but a bit of an addict like you're willing to potentially knock up a girl rather than ask her clearly and directly if she's on birth control.
Like that's kind of addictive behavior in that you're really searching for the high at the expense of exactly what is coming out now, right?
Yeah.
All right.
So she tells you she's... When did she say she's terrified she's pregnant?
Now we're going to the breakup time, right?
Yeah, this is back like two weeks after we broke up.
And she told me that.
And the first thing I said to her was like, OK, well, I mean, I'll step up.
Like, I'm going to take... I'll do everything I can for you.
I'll take care of everything.
Like, I'm not going to run away.
I'm not going anywhere.
Like, I'm going to be here for you.
Like, no matter what.
Like, that's the first place I went.
And she replied with, um, well, I don't know for sure because I think you gave me a yeast infection, which has been interfering with my period.
And I was like, that doesn't, that's not a thing, is it?
Is that a thing?
I don't think that's a thing.
But, uh, I thought that was strange.
And then she immediately replied after that with also, Even if I don't, as she said, I don't know if I am pregnant, but even if I am, it doesn't mean I'm going to keep it.
People try to save the relationship with babies all the time, and it's the worst idea, and I'm not going to put another kid through the system.
And so I was like, at that point I knew her mind was made up.
Another kid through the system?
Was she in the system?
No.
What is the system she's referring to then?
I don't know.
Maybe the family court system, or I don't know.
Maybe just a cop-out.
I don't know.
So after I pretty much knew her mind was made up about getting an abortion, if she was pregnant, she was waiting for her friend to get back from the trip to take the pregnancy test because she was the only one that she trusted, the only one she wanted to know, I guess.
And she didn't want to take it alone, right?
Yeah, that was on Thursday and she didn't say anything to me until Sunday.
So I was just, you know, pacing a hole in the floor, waiting to hear back from her.
On Sunday she told me that she was pregnant, as I kind of call you, because we hadn't spoken to each other on the phone this entire time because she refused to do that.
So I talked to her for like a brief couple minutes and she was just really cold, like emotionless about the whole thing.
And she was just like, you know, it is what it is.
It takes two.
And, you know, this was just the way things were always going to be.
Like, that's something she repeated a lot.
This is the way things were always going to be?
What does that mean?
She repeated that a lot when I tried to get answers from her.
She was very evasive.
Oh, so it's like she's got zero accountability, zero responsibility.
Yes.
It's just, you know, it's people who say, well, it is what it is.
And it's like, I really hate that phrase.
I really hate that phrase.
It's like, not only is it a tautology, yes, the word is, matches the word is, but it means nothing.
Other than a certain resignation and passivity and determinism and whatever.
And then she said something like, you know, mothers kill their children, you know, out in the wild or like in nature all the time.
And I'm just like, yes, you know, and I didn't say this, but I think I'm like, yeah, but that's, those are animals and we're humans.
So it's a little different.
And, um, but yeah, basically I started to try to get some answers from her and she immediately shut down and she was like, you know, I just found out I'm pregnant and I'm getting an abortion.
I'm not, I'm not talking to you about this right now.
And then that was the end of it.
And, uh, the next day, you know, I apologized for bringing my feelings into everything.
And I told her, you know, if I can do anything... Wait, wait, wait.
Why would you apologize for bringing your feelings in?
Are you not supposed to have feelings about being a father or potentially a father?
I mean, yeah, I don't know why I did it.
I just did.
Well, because she's a bully and you're scared of her, right?
I don't know if I'm scared, I just... Oh, yes you are.
No, no, no, Mr. Tough Soldier Guy.
Of course you are.
Of course you are.
Of course you are, because she has the power to grant or withhold the endorphins of happiness to you, so you are scared of her.
And she's, you know, at least from... I mean, I'm only having one side of the story here, whatever, right?
But, you know, from what you're telling me, she can be verbally abusive, she can be cold, she can withdraw, she makes horrible comparisons to being some sort of Yeah, and like I said, every time I tried to get answers from her, like she would always be, I would obviously have to wall text her and send her a whole bunch of stuff at once because she refused to talk to me on the phone.
And so she, she would always, she wouldn't acknowledge everything that I said.
Like she would nitpick maybe one thing that I said out of the whole paragraph and then she would turn it into a personal tag.
Yeah, she has control.
She enjoys that feeling of control.
She enjoys that feeling of you needing something from her and her deciding damn well whether to give it to you or not.
And, like, the gaslighting.
Because I talked to my friend who had been through a lot of abuse over the years and I, like, I showed him some of our conversations and he was just like, man, you got to get away from her, like, right now.
She's gaslighting the shit out of you.
And, I mean, it really was, like, I was just constantly racking my brain because of the stuff that you said, like, I don't remember.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
Like, I can't... Yeah, so she's a winner.
It's called the right fighter, like, the people who just, they win at any cost.
Like, no matter what happens, they're gonna win.
And if they have to lie, like, it's like, you know, it's like the leftists, right?
Like, I mean, there's whatever you... By any means necessary, I will win.
And, I mean, it's, you know, horribly destructive and blah, blah, blah, but, you know, that's...
Like I lost like 15 pounds during this whole thing just because I just couldn't eat and I was worrying and I was just trying to maybe I like I thought maybe I was like going crazy and like you lost 15 pounds because you're scared but you're not scared of her right?
Yeah.
Come on.
But like I was just I thought maybe maybe I was misremembering things and maybe I was unintentionally gaslighting her because I couldn't remember it like I just yeah I was going insane.
And yeah, I just, I told her, you know, I'm here for you, like whatever, whatever you need.
Do you know if she's had the abortion as yet or do you have any idea?
She told me when she originally made this appointment that it was going to be on the 28th.
So not yet.
Right.
And what do you want out of things?
I mean, it's done now.
We have, we're completely blocked from all communication.
Oh, she blocked you?
Unfriended me and then I blocked her and then she called like it was it really all came to a culmination this morning like I had been I Tried to stay civil and not like blow up on her no matter what she's been saying She said some really despicable shit to me and like I could have what?
Well she made a comparison to her mother about me not she didn't say that but Like you're in the same category as or you're in the vicinity of?
Yes, so like I was texting her and I sent her one last voice message because I just wanted to convey some emotion because I felt like she's taken all the emotion out of our communication because she refuses to actually talk to me on the phone.
So I sent her like a two minute voice message and she was just like, I'm not listening to that.
Like I'm, right now I'm in the waiting room watching a video to see how they're going to tear my guts out.
I'm sorry if I'm not taking your feelings into consideration.
And I was just like, I'm sorry.
I didn't know you were where you were when I sent it.
And she's like, you know, you never fail to make every moment about you.
And that's like, that's, that's verbatim something like she would say about her mother.
And it's like, I was, I didn't talk to her for like a day and a half after that.
And then finally I was just like, I, I told her how I felt like that's the most hurtful thing she's ever said to me and of course she was just evasive the whole conversation and then she unfriended me because I was just making points and she didn't want to say anything.
She didn't want to give me any examples.
And were you losing your temper as well at this point?
I wasn't cursing at her or anything or calling her names.
I never did that until this morning.
Well, she finally got the best of me.
But, um, yeah, she, I was, I was just begging with her to give me an example of anything.
And of course she's like, okay, fine.
You know, I've, I've been talking to my brother and my friends about this and they all agree that you're just a broken record and you can't get anything through your head.
And I'm like, okay, why is it so hard for you to just give me one, just type one example.
And she brought up the Valentine's day thing and the burrito thing and Sex.
And I'm like, those are things that I've already brought up to you.
Like, I've brought those up to you.
Like, I'm asking for another, like, anything.
And she still couldn't say anything and she said, how I've just been inconsiderate all the time.
Basically, I was inconsiderate every day.
And she's, you know, she could probably pass a polygraph about that, right?
Now, maybe you were, I don't know, but I mean, if you don't experience it that way and she does, then you guys are, you know, same planet, different worlds, right?
She said, you know, cause she'd always buy me, like if we were at the gas station, she'd buy like candy bars or whatever I wanted at the gas station.
And I was like, I've, I bought, Everything that you would like let me because she's very strange about me buying her things.
She would not like that at all.
If we were at the bar and I wanted to buy her a drink, she'd be like, no.
Like it wasn't like, you know, the ha ha, you don't have to do that.
Like, it was just like, no, you're not buying me.
Like, no.
And so like when I did, she would be like upset about it.
So it could be if she was preyed upon as a child, it could be because some guy bought her gifts or some older man bought her gifts or it could be anything like that.
Right.
I don't know, but like, so I would sneak paying for things.
Like, if she gave me her card to use at the bar for a tab, I would use mine instead.
Or if she gave me her card to use pizza, I would just use mine instead.
Okay, I don't want to get into these kinds of details, because that's, you know, this is like siding with sides, and I don't know who's... I mean, I'm gonna go with what you say, because I don't have her side, but... So what is it that you want to get out of this call today?
I guess I just wanted to Get your perspective on things, because I obviously— Well, you can learn some stuff from this, right?
Yeah, definitely.
You know, as far as I know, you don't have any legal rights to prevent her from having the abortion, right?
So, you know, she's going to do what she's going to do, and I hate to be that, you know, it is what it is, but, you know, in this case, right, we've got to focus on not so much solving this problem, which I don't think can be solved, but figuring out the steps that got you here.
Stop having sex with women.
Up front.
The worst thing she said to me was about me being so inconsiderate.
The man who beat me was more considerate than you were.
Like, how sad is that?
That's what she said to you?
She said that.
That's a total relationship ender right there.
That's like Krakatoa.
Yeah, that sounds it for me.
That's Hiroshima to the relationship.
There's literally nothing I could say after that.
She gets to win and she gets to be alone.
Good for her.
He stole her car at one point and maxed out her credits.
Her credits just tanked because of him.
Oh, that's another reason she couldn't afford a tire.
I thought that was the other girlfriend.
First of all, you've got to stop just judging women on looks.
Like, you have to.
Secondly, if somebody has a history of significant abuse and they haven't done a lot of work to process it, don't do it.
Don't do it, like don't get involved because you're going to end up in this insane situation where things go from heaven to hell, right?
It's like a book I read when I was a kid, Maiden Heaven, settled in court, like about divorce and stuff like that.
And so stop judging women based on looks and stop having sex early on.
Get to know a woman, get to know her values, get to know her history, get to know her family, just say no.
Some women, it's like a cult.
You know what a cult does is they love bomb you, right?
Oh, you're the greatest, you know, you've come home, this is the community for you, you're never going to be alone again, and hugs, and they pay lots of attention to you.
And for like lonely people, isolated people, it overwhelms their rational defense.
Well, the same thing can happen with the V-bomb with women, right?
That women can have a lot of sex with you and that completely bypasses any rational critical sense of danger that you might have, right?
Yeah.
It's like, it's like, it's like going mountain biking up at a high mountain on cocaine.
You just, you're going to end up in a terrible situation because your sense of danger and caution has kind of been burned out of you by the cocaine, right?
And so when you start off by having sex and she's pretty, then what happens is you get this glow, this high, right?
And it means that you become, in a sense, chemically dependent upon her approval of you.
Because you're a soldier, you're an assertive guy, you're an adult.
And yet you couldn't say boo to a mouse to this girl, right?
Because she had already got you addicted, not to the sex, but to the endorphin and the bonding that comes with the sex.
So then if she threatens to withhold that, you can't get that from anyone else.
Like if you're a real coke addict, not that you are, but if someone's a real coke addict, and they live in a town, they don't have a car, and there's only one dealer, they can't ever negotiate with that dealer, really, right?
Yeah.
Because they need the drug and there's only one dealer.
Now, when you get into a monogamous relationship and you start with sex and you start with physical attraction and you get love bombs and V-bombs and all that, she has a monopoly on the drug you're so desperately craving.
And therefore you can't negotiate with her, which is why you didn't negotiate with her.
You did stuff when she didn't like it, you just stopped doing it.
That's not a relationship.
A relationship is where you negotiate, right?
And you didn't negotiate.
She said, well, you know, I think sometimes YouTube push you with sex.
And what do you do?
Okay, I'll stop.
I'll stop asking for sex.
I'll stop approaching you for sex, right?
That's not a relationship.
A relationship is like, okay, well, it was fine for a bit.
It's not fine now.
Is there a way we can do it so we can both get what we want to negotiate and so on, right?
You have to have some standards.
But if you're the Coke addict and this guy is the only place you can get Coke, and he says, it's this price, You're like, okay, I'll pay that price.
I'll get the money somehow because I need the coke, right?
And so if you're addicted to the relationship, to the bonding hormones, the endorphins and other things that come with the relationship, you can't negotiate.
And then what happens is the woman loses respect because she knows what you're there for.
You're not there for her.
You're not there because she's such a wonderful person, she's so enlightening, she's so enlightened, she brings such wisdom and she brings such good humor.
You're there because you're addicted to the sex that she handed out and you're addicted to the bonding.
And she secretly, deep down, you disgust her.
And you don't just disgust her because you're just there for the sex.
And by sex I'm not just talking about the physical, all the endorphins that go bonding and all that.
It's not just because she was only there for the sex.
The reason she ends up with contempt for you, my friend, is because you're not honest about why you're there.
Right?
A liar is worse than a hypocrite.
I mean, hypocrite is a form of lying, right?
But she's got a terrible history.
She's got a dead-end job.
She's got cutting.
She had an abusive ex-boyfriend who went to jail.
I mean, this woman is a textbook God help you if you get close to her, right?
So what are you there for?
She knows you're not there for the qualities of her personality.
And yet you are lying to yourself and lying to her saying, oh, you're just so wonderful.
No.
No.
You know, the drug dealer has contempt for the drug addict who pretends to befriend him.
Oh, you're such a great guy.
Your jokes are so funny.
You know, I love your short stories, man.
He knows that he's just lying because he just wants the drug.
And that's where the contempt comes from at the end.
You understand?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I get it.
There was no quality of personality there, because personality is very stable.
She didn't just become an abuser.
She didn't just become mean.
She didn't just tell you horrible things, like, you're worse than the guy who beat me and ended up in jail, right?
She always, like, minimized things, too, to kind of get out of it, because, you know, I always try to, like, ask her, After everything we shared and everything, I think you just broke up with me and text like, I really mean that little to you.
And she's like, well, it was only three months.
Like, blah, blah, blah.
You know, you can't really know someone in three months.
And it is, you know, it is what it is and shit happens.
It just meant there was, well, it was always going to be... Yeah, so shockingly, the woman who has attachment issues did not bond with you.
Like she told you that, didn't she say, I have attachment issues or indicate that early on?
Yeah, well, abandonment issues.
Abandonment issues.
Okay, so that's like, she fears being abandoned, she doesn't trust relationships, she doesn't... So of course she's not going to bond with you.
She tells you that right up front.
You see self-cutting scars on her when you're taking off her clothes for the first time, which you've seen before, you know what they are, you know what that means, and you're like, yeah, let's go ahead.
So, I hate to say I have no sympathy, because I do.
I really do have sympathy for you.
But you hid the relationship from your parents, the nature of the relationship.
You hid it from your friends, you hid it from your family, and you hid it from yourself.
And you can't help people who are lying to themselves and won't wake up, right?
Now the bill has come in due, right?
Take what you want and pay for it, right?
So you had this high, And now you have the crash, and the crash is going to be bloody horrible, because the crash is not even about these last three months.
The crash is about your whole life.
The crash is about why you need this endorphin, why you need this high, why you're willing to put yourself through this just to feel the illusion of love for a month or two.
Right?
That's an existential issue.
That's an issue deep down in your personality.
Now, you can wrestle with it.
You can deal with it.
You know, I always recommend therapy in these kinds of situations because it's going to take a while to figure it out.
Because you can, you know, you're a good looking guy.
You're an athletic guy.
I assume you're tall and all that.
And so what happens is you're going to face this crash.
And this depression and this like, ugh, you know, like don't want to get out of bed and stuff, but you know how to solve it, right?
You can solve it by booting up Tinder and starting to swipe again, right?
Yeah, I'm not going to do that.
Well, okay.
But it might happen to you or it might happen coincidentally, or it might be at a grocery store or whoever, right?
It's going to be very tempting.
Yeah.
I mean, I've talked to my family and stuff.
Like, I just think the best thing is, uh, Like I said, stay off of the Tinder and just focus on myself.
Yeah, well, you gotta figure out why... Like, what do addicts do, right?
And listen, please understand, I'm not diagnosing you as an addict.
I'm just using this in a purely colloquial sense.
I don't want you to think of yourself as an addict.
I don't want any of that.
I'm just using this like, you know, someone's addicted to video games.
That doesn't mean that they need an intervention in 90 days in a rehab facility or anything.
I'm just saying this, right?
Because, like, what are people who have, let's say, addicted to a particular bad behavior?
Well, they lie, right?
And you did kind of lie.
You lied to yourself, like, oh, you know, I'm sure she's over being cut and beaten and, like, come on, right?
I mean, I'm sure that's just all in the past.
You know, she's only 24, but I'm sure it's fine.
I mean, that's lying to yourself, right?
You didn't tell the truth about her history to your family.
You didn't bring it up with your friends.
You didn't, right?
So you hid a whole bunch of stuff.
And that's the first sign.
That something's not going well, right?
When you're hiding stuff, when you're not... Because you hide stuff from other people, eventually you're going to have to hide it from yourself.
And that's when things get really nuts, right?
Yeah.
Like, as soon as I told my family about her, it was after she broke up with me, I told her about her scars and everything.
They were just like, they, you know... Because they had thought, after they knew that she broke up with me, that she got with some other guy or something.
But once I told them that, they...
Like, my dad, he's been through something like this in the past, some mental issues, and he's talking to me about borderline personality disorder, and I was like, I started looking into that, and like, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to diagnose her and say that's what she has or anything, I don't.
But there's maybe some overlap conceptually, right?
It is, it's pretty similar.
You know, it's important to talk about your father about this, because maybe this is kind of a pattern.
I'm not saying your mom's this way, right?
But I mean, maybe there is a white knighting.
You know, what do soldiers do?
They go and save people, right?
So you see this woman in distress, and it's pretty easy to trigger the white knight response, particularly the soldier or cop or fireman or something like that, right?
I'm going to save her with love and penis, right?
I mean, that's not how people get healed, right?
It's not how people get cured.
No.
No.
And this is...
I don't like the idea of abortion, as you know, but on a purely pragmatic level, if she didn't have the abortion, or let's just say, let's pretend, you know, just for the sake of the moment that maybe she'll change her mind, give the child up for adoption, I don't know, right?
But if she did have the baby and kept the baby and came after you for 20 years of child support, And stayed in your life and caused chaos and interfered with your new relationships and cut herself or abused the child.
I don't know.
Whatever, right?
I mean, you'd be in for a multi-decade nightmare.
Yeah.
Like she already said, she doesn't want to have any ties to me or anything.
She keeps referring to it as a sack of cells, even though it's almost two months along.
Oh, the baby?
The fetus?
Yeah.
Sack of cells?
Yeah.
Like I said, she just minimizes everything.
Sure.
Sure.
And, I mean, either she's lying to herself and she's got a conscience, or even worse, she genuinely believes that.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what to believe about it all.
So, I'm really sorry that this is your first brush with fatherhood.
I'm really, really sorry that this has happened to your heart and all of that.
I really am very sorry.
I do.
I do.
I have sympathy for you both.
I mean, look at her history and her life and her culture and everything that's gone on.
She's still a relatively young woman.
You know, she's still only a year or two or three past physical brain maturity, and she's had a hell of a life.
And, you know, this feral self-protection and dissociation, I mean, we could only speculate, and I'm sure we couldn't speculate darkly enough about what happened to her in her childhood, but it was probably a whole lot more than her mom.
And I have sympathy for everyone in this situation, but of course, I'm talking to you and not her.
I was hoping that she would be able to join us, but she said she couldn't or she wouldn't, right?
She won't even talk to me.
Yeah, yeah.
So, there's a whole, you know, people say to me, like, Steph, you don't know what it's like dating out here and so on, and I, you know, I get it.
It's been a big change, a big change.
But you kind of have to go old school on this stuff, right?
Go find a nice Christian girl, go find a nice philosophical girl, go find a nice girl who's not got scar marks and just carved the word worthless into her own flesh.
And has been beaten up by a guy who's now in jail who put her through a glass table or whatever the hell happened.
Like, just go find a normal woman.
Maybe she'll be a little plain.
Maybe she won't be this hot, bubbly mess of estrogen attraction.
But just go find a nice girl, a sensible girl, a solid girl.
And, you know, this kind of drama is, you know, it's even worse getting addicted to drama.
And these highs and lows, they can really mess with your system, I think, after a while.
And you could then start to need it.
And boy, boy, if there's one place you don't want to be, it's needing drama in your relationships.
Relationships.
Because it's not a relationship.
You only have a relationship with drama.
You only have a relationship with sex.
You only have a relationship with the endorphins that their proximity produces in you.
You don't have a relationship with a person.
You have a relationship with your needs.
And so I'm not saying you're like her, Mom, but if you were Avoiding talking to her about bad behavior because you're afraid she was going to cut off your endorphins, that is a little selfish.
Now, I don't think that talking about her bad behavior would have solved her issues, right?
That's, you know, I mean, if she's anywhere in the proximity of borderline, my understanding is you can't fix that.
It's character logic.
So I'm not saying that talking about issues with her or being present and real in the relationship with her, I'm not saying that would have solved everything, but it sure as hell Would have, had you not likely end up in this situation.
Right?
Because you'd have been assertive early on, you'd have been, right, asked her more about her history early on.
Yeah, I feel like if I would have, either it would have blown up on my face and it would have ended a lot earlier, or it would have prolonged things and then maybe I would have had to deal with this further down the road.
No, it would have blown up in your face early on and you wouldn't be in this situation.
Guaranteed.
Because people who are this unstable, they can't negotiate.
They can't have rational confrontations.
They just blow up, right?
Yeah.
So, if you had been assertive early on, or if you'd simply asked more, like, okay, you were a cutter.
How terrible.
What have you done to deal with that?
Have you gone to therapy?
No.
It's like, well, why?
What have you done to deal with it?
Do you journal?
How do you deal with this level of trauma?
This is a very, very big deal.
At some point, she would have just blown up at you.
Why are you needling me?
Why do you keep cross-examining me?
I'm fine, I'm dealing with it!" You know, boom, right?
And it's like, okay, so I can't have legitimate concerns about opening my heart to somebody who's got massive amounts of unprocessed trauma and probably has PTSD from her damn childhood, right?
And then you're like, okay, well, that was instructive.
And then you slap your penis with a ping-pong paddle and say, stop leading me into quicksands of crazy town.
Yeah, I guess that's... I mean, she mentioned before about going to therapy that she went to a couple different ones.
Like, she didn't like how the one talked to her like she was a kid.
And then the one she ended up liking was like one of those really buddy-buddy therapists that just makes you feel good kind of thing.
Like, I don't know if she actually got to the root of anything.
I don't know, but... Yeah, we don't know.
We'll never know.
But given how the behavior has manifested, I think it's fairly safe to say whatever she did didn't quite take as much as it could have.
Yeah.
It seems that way.
Well, listen, I mean, that's really all I had to say.
I mean, you know how to avoid this kind of stuff in the future.
Look for a woman who hopefully has a stable past, or if she doesn't, has done a lot of work to deal with it, which is going to be tough to find in a young woman, because the young woman can always rely on looks and guys showering her with attention to wallpaper over the holes in her history and all that.
But, you know, if you listen to the show, I've got a free book called Real Time Relationships, which is well worth having a look at freedomadradio.com/free.
And I think as far as how to avoid these kinds of things, yeah, don't jump into bed, get to know the person, and be relentlessly curious about their history.
Somebody who's really dealt with their issues, like people can ask me just about anything about my history.
Like I can't think of anything they can't ask me.
And I'm not gonna blow up, I'm not, like, I've done it.
I've combed over it.
I've talked about it.
I've done therapy.
I've done journaling.
I've done it.
And so I'm not like a landmine.
And whenever you come across landmines in people, man, it is run or lose a limb.
So yeah, that's my major thing.
And again, I guess I'm most sorry for the one who can't speak.
It's the baby in the belly, the fetus, who's probably not got More than a couple more days to live, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's how these kinds of disasters occur.
And now she has one more burden, right?
She has one more mess, one more trauma.
And she's probably going to accumulate a whole bunch more down the road, right?
And you don't want to be around for that.
You really don't.
And again, I'm no fan of abortion, and it'd be great if she was putting the kid up for adoption if she didn't want it and so on, but given what kind of mom she'd probably end up being, oh my God.
It's hard to come down 100% on one side or the other.
Maybe that's another reason why she really does want to have it, because she doesn't want to end up like her mom.
She'd be afraid she'd be... Well, she already is a little bit, right?
Yeah.
So anyway, I appreciate the call.
Is there anything else you wanted to mention?
No, that pretty much covers it.
Was it helpful?
Was it useful?
Oh, definitely.
Like I said, I'll probably listen to this a couple of times just to really soak everything up.
Good.
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
I appreciate the call.
Please let me know how it goes if you ever hear back from her, or even if you don't, just drop me a line, alright?
