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Nov. 20, 2018 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:34:00
4249 The Three Absolute Worst Words a Man Can Hear - Call In
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain.
I'm here with Jerry, who says that he has watched my content on YouTube pretty intensely.
It's helped him in some ways to answer those internal questions that pop up in your head now and then.
And he says, unfortunately, it seems literally impossible for me to manage to straighten up my relationship with the woman that, in my eyes, is the one and only.
Our relationship began three years ago with a pretty rough start, which made an impact on the doubtless Trust I felt for her, that was a big part in what made my feeling grow so strongly in the first place, the following three years has been rather unstable, plans of engagement one day, breakups the day after, a continuous cycle of make-ups and breakups, which were equally heartbreaking each time and for each time makes the belief of a secure and loving relationship more and more out of reach.
So I would wholeheartedly, he says, appreciate some guidance to how I can repair the damage that's been done and spend my life in harmony with the love of my life.
Well, you're not alone in this, we were on a break situation, and I do sympathize.
I've had some experience with these relationships that they don't quite start, they don't quite end, and they just kind of chug along, and it seems to be stopping and starting all the time.
So what happened at the beginning?
You said it had a rough start.
How did it start? Was it an affair?
Sort of.
We were pretty unstable in the beginning.
There was nothing really serious.
We just spent time together, slept together.
It was great.
We talked. We spent time together.
And that felt enough.
I wasn't really in search of a relationship at all at that time.
And... I made a mistake.
I felt that there wasn't really a relationship between us.
Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Gerry.
In order to have a relatively efficient conversation, I need you to answer the questions that I ask.
So I asked, what was the pretty rough start?
And I got like 90 seconds of what's called filibustering.
So just in the interest of saving millions of listeners, millions of hours, you have to just answer the question that I asked.
And I don't want a whole bunch of what's called beating around the bush.
I don't know what they call it, where you're from.
So let me try this again.
You said the relationship began with a pretty rough start, had an impact on the trust you felt for her.
What was that? Oh, it's really hard to just put it out straight.
Well, I... Oh my god.
Lost in translation. I bet it's not.
I bet you it's very, very simple, so why don't you just say it?
Yeah, it sure is really simple, but I don't know how to articulate myself.
No, listen, don't try and articulate yourself, Gerry.
Just tell me what happened.
Just speak up, for God's sake. Yeah, just tell me what happened.
Yeah, she lied.
She had been at another guy's place.
And I sensed that something was wrong and I asked, what's up?
And she said, no, no, it's nothing, I'm tired.
And a few days later, I had planned out to ask her if she would like to be in a serious relationship with me.
Wait, hang on. So you guys had been sleeping together at this point, is that right?
Yeah. And how long had you been sleeping together?
But you weren't like boyfriend-girlfriend, is that right?
Yeah. It had been for like one and a half months.
Right. Right.
Okay, so for one and a half months...
Yeah....you had been having sex, but you hadn't talked about being exclusive, like just me and just you, right?
No. Okay.
So then she's over at another guy's place.
She's kind of evasive in her answers when you ask her what happened.
And then you say, hey, let's be boyfriend-girlfriend, right?
Yeah, sort of.
I had a few weeks earlier spend some time with another girl and I felt a lot of guilt and I felt that...
Oh, you had slept with another girl as well?
Yeah, I tried.
It's a lot of sort-ups here.
Hey Sweden, do you want a country?
Sort of. Okay, so you're sleeping with another girl and she slept with another guy, right?
I'm not sure if she slept with him.
Did she spend the night with him?
I'm not sure. I have no idea.
You said that she was over his place though, right?
She was over at his place.
Well, what was the time period that she was over at his place?
During the night.
So she's over at another guy's place during the night?
Yeah, I spoke with her on the phone.
I was away working and it was pretty late in the evening.
And she said that she was out walking and she came home to her front door.
And said, well, I'm going in.
I have to hang up.
And what time of night was she at this guy's place?
Yeah... At 10 p.m.?
Could be a social call?
It's not like 2 a.m., right?
Nah, not really.
I have no idea how long time she spent there, so...
But... And was this man, was he like a long-term friend?
How did he know her?
I have no idea about their relationship.
They knew each other. I don't know how.
I know who the guy is, but I don't know the relationship between them.
Right, okay. So you slept with another girl, she slept with another guy, and then you decided to be boyfriend-girlfriend, or you asked for that, right?
Yeah. The thing is, when I tried to sleep with another girl, I felt that something was wrong.
I felt feelings for this woman that was home.
And so I went to her and I explained what I have done and what I felt.
You explained that you did sleep or wanted to sleep with the other girl?
Yeah, I said that.
You said what? Which one? I told her that I had tried.
But I couldn't act it out.
Oh, so is it because you couldn't get an erection?
Sort of. What do you mean sort of?
You're either getting wood or you're not getting wood.
Well, I... I couldn't.
You couldn't get an erection?
No. And you think it might have had something to do with the feelings you had for your current girlfriend?
Yeah, of course. It was the wrong woman.
All right. And I didn't realize until then.
So you kind of confessed to...
And how long before you asked her to be your girlfriend did you try to sleep with this other woman?
It was probably two and a half, three weeks, somewhere around that.
Right, okay.
So, what did she say when you said, I tried to sleep with this other woman, but my penis wouldn't cooperate, so let's be boyfriend-girlfriend?
There wasn't really any question of intimate relationship more than what we had had before at that time.
Wait, I'm sorry, I don't know what that means.
You said you confessed to wanting to sleep with another woman, but you couldn't make it happen.
Yes. And then, was it after you confessed, so you tried to sleep with her, two, three weeks later, you confessed to this girl who's now your girlfriend, and what did she say about you telling her you tried to sleep with another woman and that you wanted her to be your girlfriend?
Uh... She responded very well.
I didn't ask her to be my girlfriend at that time.
That came later.
How much later? Yeah, two and a half, three weeks.
Okay. Alright, so she didn't mind too much that you were trying to sleep with another girl?
No. She basically said, well, it's fine, now you know, so let's stick together.
Oh, so this was something where she said, be my boyfriend after you said, I'll try to sleep with another woman.
Not really in a relationship way, but just to have sex between us two.
Oh, so she said...
Okay, so she said, you tried to sleep with another woman, so let's you and I continue to have sex.
Yeah. Okay. Basically.
Okay. And it felt good.
I felt relief.
Sure, no, I get it feels good in the moment, but you pay the price later on, right?
Yeah, the payback came two weeks later.
Oh, two weeks later, the payback game?
What happened then? Oh, is this when she went to the other guy?
That was when she went to the other guy, after we had committed to only be intimate with each other.
Oh, so you went for monogamy, and then what happened was...
She didn't act up.
And then she wanted to...
She tried to sleep with another guy, you think, right?
But she never confessed to it, is that right?
Not immediately. It came a few days later when I asked for her hand.
When you asked for her hand?
Yeah, when I said that I want to be in a serious relationship.
Oh, so more than just sexual exclusivity, you wanted to be in a serious relationship.
Yes. I wanted to be girlfriend-boyfriend, not just fuck buddies.
Right. Now, did she confess?
I think you said, if I remember rightly, and this is a confusing as hell story, so, you know, please help me through it.
Yeah, I totally understand.
So, you said you wanted to be boyfriend-girlfriend, and then did she ever confess to sleeping with this other guy?
You never found out. It's kind of complicated.
She gave me a half tooth when I asked her to be in an exclusive relationship.
She said, well, it's kind of this little problem.
And she said, well, you know, that night I wasn't really at home.
I was at another guy's place, but nothing happened.
And I was like, okay, well, if nothing happened, then there isn't a problem.
And she was like, ah, but there sort of is, but it maybe happened something.
It maybe happened something?
No, seriously, you're not...
Is that what she said?
Maybe something happened?
Maybe something happened.
And I was like, okay, so can you please tell me what happened?
Oh, yeah, there maybe was some cuddling.
Okay, well...
There maybe was some cuddling.
Did she really say maybe?
It was three years ago.
I don't really know exactly by word, but...
But she was very...
Very...
I don't know how to say, but...
Oh, I think I'm experiencing what she did to you from you to me.
Yeah. Which is, what the hell is going on, right?
Yes. Okay, okay.
So she never did confess to anything sexual, but she said maybe there had been some cuddling, like she had some out-of-body experience, or was she drunk, or who knows, right?
Okay. I think she was sober.
Right, okay, okay.
Yeah. So that's the rough start that you were talking about, right?
Yeah, definitely. Mostly because I didn't know if she felt that she could tell me the entire truth.
And the more I questioned her, the more little pieces of the truth came out.
And yeah, it was frustrating.
So did you get the truth eventually that you think is accurate?
I will never know. You will never know, right.
No. You know what my next question is going to be, right?
Because you've probably heard a bunch of these calls before, right?
Yeah, I've heard a couple.
So what do you think my next question is going to be?
That's a really good question.
How pretty was she? Or is she?
What? How pretty is she?
If she's pretty, well...
I think she's the most beautiful person I've ever seen, but in the public opinion, she ain't really a 10.
In the public opinion, she's what?
She wouldn't really be considered a 10.
Okay, she's a 10 for you, right?
Because everybody has their type, so she's a 10 for you.
And how do you think, sorry to interrupt, how do you think she would rate you physically?
From one to ten? That's a really good question.
But I'm not really the one that goes by looks.
I'm more of a personality person.
But maybe seven?
Okay, okay.
So there may be a three-point difference in terms of perception, right?
Nah, maybe.
I don't know.
It isn't anything that I have considered.
You haven't considered your relative levels of attractiveness?
No, not really.
Alright. Okay, that's fine.
So, how many times have you broken up in the last three years?
She has broke up five times.
I have never broke up.
All right, and why does she break up?
Because I'm a needy confused bitch.
She says you're a needy confused bitch, is that right?
Sort of. That's pretty harsh, man.
I think so myself.
Oh, you think you're a needy confused bitch?
Yeah, she thinks so too.
We're on the same level there.
Wow. Yeah.
What? And you agree with this assessment, needy, confused bitch?
Yeah, kind of.
Okay, Jerry, you've got to stop giving me these kind ofs.
You have to, if we're going to have this conversation.
Because it's like trying to grab something in fog.
Because every time you say kind of, I don't know, is it 1%, is it 99%, is it 50%?
I don't know. So we're going to have to try and get to some firm ground here.
Like I spent 15 minutes just trying to understand a simple sequence of how you got together.
Yeah. Okay, so you're going to have to just shake your head or snort some testosterone or something like that, but you've got to start giving me some, you know, kind of this, it's confusing, it's complicated, it's like I can't have a conversation if it's all fuck.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I totally understand you.
Okay, so, and you're trying to be fair and you're trying to be reasonable, and now is not the time for that, because we need to get to some certainty about this relationship, right?
Yeah. Okay, so if someone calls you a needy, confused bitch, and especially if it's a woman talking to a man, that is extreme verbal abuse.
It's kind of a sign for me to man up.
Kind of. Okay, you just didn't listen to what I said.
What did I say? Yeah. That it was abusive.
What did I call it?
Verbally abusive? I said it's extreme verbal abuse.
Yeah. Okay.
I mean, you're certainly free to disagree with me with that, but I'll tell you why.
So, a man who calls a woman a bitch is being verbally abusive, but at least he's using a gender-appropriate insult.
But a woman who calls a man a bitch is evoking Prison relationships, you know, where you can be a prisoner's bitch and you're his homosexual lapdog for the time that he's in prison and so on.
And so she is, I don't know if this word means much to you, emasculating you, right?
She's taking away your manhood, your masculinity, your balls, if you want the colloquial, right?
Now, why does she call you this horrible phrase, needy, confused bitch?
Why does she call you that?
Because the events that we've been to have made a
big impact on how I think and how I view the surrounding and my view on the relationship.
Oh my god, what a bunch of verbal words.
Okay, so Jerry...
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
So you're blaming circumstances or the environment as to why she verbally abuses you.
Because I said, why does she call you that?
You said, well, it's circumstances, and then it just went blah, blah, blah, and I... Kind of gave up listening because I knew I was just listening to justifications.
But you didn't say because she's got a really vicious temper, because she herself can be really mean, because she's domineering, because she doesn't know how to negotiate, because she has family history of verbal abuse, because she's not able to control her temper.
In other words, you gave her no moral responsibility for saying absolutely horrible things to a man, I hope, she claims to love.
Yeah, I'm equally confused.
Okay, let's...
And just try to be concise, please.
Yeah, yeah. What are the circumstances or the environment that you think gives rise to her saying or calling you a needy, confused bitch?
What is the environment that produces that, in your opinion?
Is it what you do?
Is it stuff that happens in life?
What is it? I think it's on pretty much both of us.
She has this runaway mentality.
And that mentality makes me feel abandoned, sort of.
And when I feel abandoned, I get needy.
I need affection.
I need love. Okay, you are really, really, you're traumatized by this relationship, man.
I'll tell you that right now.
Yeah, I sure know.
You know this, right? I know.
You're very traumatized because you're afraid of having an objective judgment.
I asked you a simple question and you went on this kind of psychobabble roundabout, right?
Like she's got this, what did you say, runaway personality?
I don't even know what that means.
Does that mean she has no control over her temper?
Yeah. When things get hard, she wants to run away.
No, no, no.
She calls you a needy, confused bitch.
That's not running away. That's extreme verbal abuse.
So you're not tracking what you're telling me.
In other words, you're telling me something, and then when I point it out, you kind of alter the story, or you blame circumstances, or then you say she's running away when she's not running away.
She's verbally abusing you.
Before she leaves me and run away.
And then I'm there, left alone, without a girlfriend.
Well, if she's calling you a needy, confused bitch, that seems to me a step in the right direction.
I am without someone who verbally abuses and traumatizes me.
Oh no! Right?
How on earth will you survive without torrents of acidic, ball-dissolving verbal abuse pouring your way?
Right? Yeah, I know it.
It's hard to get along, for sure.
Oh my gosh. But I want...
Oh no, no, no.
I really, really want...
Stop going abstract.
Stop going... It's hard to get along.
It's hard to get along with somebody who calls you a needy, confused bitch, I will agree with that, because they're horrible.
Yeah, and the fun part is that after she left me, a few months later, she comes back and Cries and begs and wants me back.
Almost like a needy, confused...
Anyway, I won't complete that phrase.
Yeah, it's projection. Okay, so what do you do...
Give me a circumstance, like a specific event that happened recently.
She doesn't need to have used that phrase, but some verbally abusive phrase.
Give me something that's a trigger, like what happened, specifically not, well, we were not getting along, but like what happened in the world between you that was an event that produced this verbal abuse towards you from her?
It's mostly when I want to Talk to her and sort things out.
And she thinks that it's getting too complicated.
Okay, so you just did not listen to what did I ask for just now?
Yeah. What did I ask for?
Not abstractions, not generalities, but a specific thing in your life.
You know, we were trying to book a restaurant.
We were trying to pack for vacation.
Like, what specifically happened that triggered this kind of verbal abuse from her?
Well, I really have no idea, but there ain't really any specific situations.
What was the most recent situation where she called you names or yelled at you or something like that?
How recent was that?
Well, a few hours ago.
Yeah. And can you remember a few hours ago what caused this to happen?
Did she know you were talking to me?
No. Okay, so what happened that she began this aggression?
The need I feel to talk to her and sort things out to get our relationship to work.
Okay, so what did you say to her and what did she say back?
Well, I'm trying to set things up straight.
I have unanswered questions and I want to talk to her about those questions and she shuts off.
Okay, what are the unanswered questions?
So give me a sense of what you said to her just a couple hours ago.
Yeah, I said that I would like to have Deeper conversations with her to get to learn her mind better, to understand her, to understand how she thinks and how she views things.
And she felt that, well, that's too much.
I can't do that.
But I want our relationship to work.
Wait, she said that she wants the relationship to work?
Yeah. Okay, and?
What did you say?
Well, let's make it work.
And then? And she's like, nah, I can't do that things.
But I want it to work.
Wait, she can't respond to your desire for deeper conversations, but she wants it to work anyway.
Yeah. Okay.
And then? And then she gets exhausted by my talking.
She says that Your talking will crush my feelings.
Your talking is gonna crush your feelings?
Okay, and then what? Yeah. That's basically it.
If you don't stop think the way you do, if you don't stop talk with me the way you do about things that has happened in the past, our relationship isn't going to work.
What things in the past were you bringing up today?
I didn't say anything at all today.
It was mostly her talking.
But why did she bring up today that she doesn't want to talk about things in the past?
Because it bugs her.
No, I get that it bugs her.
What in the past have you been asking?
Is it about her childhood? Is it about something that happened last week?
Is it about three years ago?
Did she sleep with this guy?
What is it in the past that you're bringing up that she's upset about?
I'm not blaming you for bringing anything up from the past.
You have the perfect right to do that.
I'm just wondering what it is that she's sensitive about or reacts to that you bring up from the past.
I'm not really sure.
We talk about a lot of different things.
There's been pretty much events during our on and off relationships that has been negative.
And I want to talk about those events and get things straight to understand.
What are the negative things?
And I really apologize for keeping to interrupt you, Jerry.
I really do. But I just have to make sure I get facts.
Because when I get big abstract descriptions, I'm dealing with your trauma about the relationship, not specific things.
Because specific things hurt.
Whereas abstractions are kind of like a drug that you can take to kill the pain.
So I need to get through to...
What would you most like, like pretend that I'm her for a moment, and what is it that you would most like to say that she prevents you from saying or punishes you for saying?
What is it that you most want to say to her?
I want her to fulfill the needs that I feel that I need to get fulfilled from an intimate partner, from someone that I I'm considering to spend the entirety of my life with.
So I'm going to pretend to be her, and I would then say, what are the needs that the relationship or I am not fulfilling for you?
Yeah, I want to feel loved.
I want to feel important.
I want to feel that I matter in your life.
And that you want to invite me into yours.
And what am I doing, Jerry, that has you not feel that way?
Or what am I not doing that has you feel unloved?
Well, she...
She kind of just floating around doing her thing.
It's like I'm...
I'm nothing even there.
We live together.
We live in the same house.
But she doesn't touch me.
She doesn't speak to me, basically.
It's like we're just breathing the same air under the same roof.
It's more like we're roommates.
Right. Yeah.
Right. So you would like more physical intimacy, you would like more curiosity, more connection, more good conversation, is that right?
Yeah. Intellectual things, physical things, like everyone else.
Well, I don't know if it's as common as you think it is, but I know what you mean, right?
These are the things that you want.
Yeah. So, as far as, let's forget the sex thing, just as far as hugging or cuddling or kissing, how often does she initiate cuddling or hugging or kissing with you or just, you know, touching you, shoulder rub or anything like that?
Basically never. When I go off to work, she gives me a quick hug.
That's pretty much it.
Isn't that interesting? When you go off to work.
So that brings me to my next question.
Who is paying the bills?
I am. Right.
What does she do?
She's working too.
But then why are you paying the bills?
Well, we are splitting it Pretty much 50-50, but right now she has been studying and working part-time and it hasn't really gone off with the salaries yet.
Wait, wait, hang on. So I just got three completely different messages and this is what's confusing, right?
So you say you pay the bills and then you say it's 50-50 and then you say she's only working part-time, she's studying and therefore she doesn't pay much.
This is all very confusing.
The rent is 50-50.
We split the food bills, food costs, pretty even.
But it's mostly my income that counts.
Well, food and rent is not a tiny part of it, right?
No, no. So what are you paying for that so much more?
Well, literally everything else.
Right. Is she a feminist?
I mean, she's Swedish.
It was the first thing that popped up in my mind when I saw her the first time.
That she's a feminist?
Yeah, the thought really was, what the hell is this kind of feminist pet activist, animal activist, florist, everything that ends with ist.
Florist? Yeah, everything that quits with ist.
So is she a feminist?
No. Oh, she's not a feminist?
No. Okay, okay, got it.
I figured that out pretty fast.
Yeah, well, certainly economically she's no feminist.
Because feminists normally get their money from the state, not from a boyfriend they don't touch, right?
No, no, no, no.
She works for her income.
And what does she study when she says she's...
Is she studying full-time? She just finished her studies.
So... And what did she study?
She took an after-college degree, sort of, in...
She studied to be a car mechanic, basically.
Well, that's interesting and good.
I was not expecting that.
So she studied to be a car mechanic?
No, no, me neither. Yes.
And did she have a college degree?
What was her college degree in?
She failed college.
Okay, okay. Yeah.
And what was she taking in college?
Something social.
Like social work or some...
No, it was some really complex international something.
I have no real idea what it was.
It was basically just...
Okay. Writing and reading.
And how did she pay for, I don't know if she would be charged, I assume it's Sweden, so just about everything is quote free, but how did she pay for the car mechanic course?
She took a student loan.
And how much is she in debt for, do you know?
Well, it's Sweden, so it ain't as bad as it is in the US, for example.
And how's she going to pay that back?
By work. And is she working to get a job as a car mechanic?
Yeah. But she's not got one yet, or is she working part-time as a car mechanic?
No, she's working part-time as a personal assistant.
She's... Okay, and is she putting in a lot of applications to be a car mechanic?
She has a job interview tomorrow.
Oh, okay. So that could be...
And you can make some decent money as a car mechanic, right?
Ah, pretty average.
Yeah. Okay.
So will she be able to...
Do you have debt yourself?
Uh... Pretty big amount.
You have a big amount of debt?
Yeah. From what?
Yeah, a couple of hundred thousand Swedish crowns.
What's that U.S. dollars?
U.S. dollars, pretty much 50 grand.
50 grand. And what do you owe 50 grand for?
Car loan, etc.
Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, that's not quite that, like, I mean, you assume you use the car to get to work or to drive around or whatever.
It's kind of an investment, right?
It's a hobby vehicle.
Oh, it's a hobby vehicle?
Yeah. Okay. All right.
Yeah. So you like cars and she's a car mechanic.
It's karma. Yes. Okay.
She wasn't that interested in cars before she met me.
Right. So I assume I had some influence on her.
Right, right.
And is she your age, sort of mid-twenties?
A few years younger.
A few years younger, okay. Three years.
And when was the last time, I'm sorry to ask such personal questions, but, you know, I mean, if you're talking about a relationship where you sleep together and you're not roommates, the one big difference is sex.
So do you have sex so much if she's not initiating?
Do you initiate or how does that work?
It's my initiative.
Okay, and how often are you able to achieve the touchdown, so to speak?
Once a month, maybe.
Once a month? Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that's terrible.
Yeah, I would like to have it at least two times a week.
At least. Or, yeah, I could stretch up to two times a day, but...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I get it. You're a guy, right?
I mean... Yeah. Give me a shot of bourbon and I'm going up again, right?
The primal urges.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so do you initiate more and she says no, or have you given up initiating?
I've pretty much given up.
It's like, okay, it's been a really long time since the last time.
I think it would be great for us both to get some satisfaction.
And what did she say when you used to initiate?
Pretty much five minutes quick.
Oh, I came. Let's quit this.
Wait, she would have an orgasm and then she would say let's quit this while you had not had an orgasm.
Yeah, then it's done.
Oh, that's rude.
Yeah, but mostly we do it in the middle of the night and she's really tired because reasons.
Right. You don't have kids, though, and I assume you don't have roommates, so you have to work till the evening, and you have weekends, and you have all the things that you don't have when you have kids and or roommates.
I work nights.
Oh, you work nights. Okay.
Yeah. But you still have overlaps, right?
Yeah, yeah. We've got weekends, but mostly on the weekends she's working, so I spend the weekends alone, pretty much.
Okay. Yeah, and she doesn't come home for several days when she works.
What do you mean she doesn't come home?
I mean, I know what you mean, but why?
Yeah, there's a few miles from home to work, and it's expensive to commute, etc, etc.
Wait, what? It's a few miles?
And where does she stay?
At her parents' house, mostly.
It's closer to work.
Well, how long does it take for her to get to work from where you live?
It depends on...
She works in different places, but somewhere between 15 to 40 minutes.
Wait, so it takes 15 to 40 minutes to get home, but she'd rather stay with her parents than come home to her boyfriend?
Basically. Hmm.
Do you understand why I'm confused?
No, no, I don't think so.
Well, if she's not getting sex from you...
Yeah, I've asked myself that question too.
Right. You haven't had any other affairs, is that right?
No. Right.
No, not since the last try three years ago.
There has been some girls in the breakups.
Wait, there have been girls while you have broken up over the last three years?
Yeah, in between our relationships.
And how long did these breakups last?
In between three to six months.
Wait, so you've...
God, this math is so confusing.
Okay, so you've been in a relationship for five...
Sorry, for three years.
On and off. Sorry, but you've been in a relationship for three years, but she's broken up with you five times for three to six months each time?
Yeah. So haven't you been broken up more than...
You've been together about the same amount?
Most of the times when...
We have gotten back together.
It hasn't been for that long.
I get it. So you break up for three to six months.
Was it three to six? Is that right?
Yeah. And then why do you think she comes back if she thinks that you're this horrible phrase that you mentioned earlier?
Why do you think she comes back?
I think she feels some Some odd feelings when she's not with me.
You mean a lack of a paycheck?
Nah. Odd poverty?
No, no, no. I don't think she's like that.
I just think she's a gold digger.
Why do you think she's not a gold digger?
She doesn't want to have sex with you, but she'll take your money.
I'm not sure how to...
How to phrase it elsewise, I could be wrong, but it's certainly one of the tick boxes, isn't it?
Yeah, I understand that it sounds strange, but it's not that she's assuming that I should pay.
Oh no, but you do, right?
Yeah. If she can't, I will do it.
If I can afford it.
I mean, she won't take your balls, but you'll take her bills.
That's not a good setup.
No, I know. Right?
I mean, it's one thing to have this relationship where you pay more, but at least she's relaxed and sexed up and ready to go.
You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's kind of...
It's transactional, but at least there's a win-win.
But in this situation, you're paying the bills.
You're paying the big bills while getting the blue balls, right?
Yeah. Right.
Masturbation is fun for pretty much a day.
Then you're pretty much off with it.
Then you want a real deal.
Of course. I mean, it's a pretty sad thing when you're in a relationship with a woman and you're living together, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
All right. So tell me, if you would, my friend, why you want to be with her.
Give me the...
They used to call it the elevator pitch, like you've got two minutes to make a case to someone in an elevator about why they should hire you or why they should go out with you or why they should...
Invest in your business.
What is the elevator pitch as to why this woman is worth having in your life?
Well, it's mostly emotional.
I've been with uncountable amounts of women.
All right, how many? I can't even keep count, but I don't think it's more than 100.
But I'm not sure. So roughly a hundred women you've been with and you're in your mid-twenties?
Yeah. Oh my god.
Do you think this might have affected your capacity to bond with someone at all?
Things are a little bit different here in Sweden.
Well sure, but that doesn't mean that the effects of things aren't the same everywhere.
No, no, no, no, no.
Do you know how many men she's been with?
How many? 20, 25, I guess.
And she's a couple of years younger than you.
Yeah. So her capacity to pair bond is pretty much gone.
Like, I'm sorry. I mean, pair bonding is like a big balloon and too many dicks just pop it.
And it really doesn't take that many.
It certainly doesn't take as many.
Like, you've probably seen my presentation, or if you haven't, you should.
The Truth About Sex, where I talk about the very clear statistical data that the more Sexual partners.
The more sexual partners the woman has, the less likely she is to stay with you, to have a good pair bond, and the more likely she is to divorce you and destroy you.
Yeah. But the strange thing is that I have no problems to bond.
Yeah, you do. No, no, you do.
You do. You do, because you...
Hang on, hang on, dude. Of course you have a problem to bond, because you chose a woman who isn't bonding!
If you view it that way, okay.
No, no, don't weasel out on me here.
Tell me if I'm wrong. I'm wrong, but don't give me this fake compliance, right?
You chose a woman who's not bonding with you, who keeps withdrawing from your desire for intimacy, who won't initiate sex, who takes your money but won't have sex with you, who constantly breaks up with you.
So you say, oh, I've got no problem bonding.
then why the hell would you choose a woman who can't bond with you or won't?
I don't think I've chosen.
I think it just is what it is.
With the amount of women I've...
Hang on. What do you mean you didn't choose her?
You choose her every day.
Let me explain.
Sure. The amount of women I've been with, the feelings I feel I have never felt before.
Yeah. It feels divine in some sense.
No, I understand that.
I understand that, but you've bonded with the lack of bonding.
So let me ask you about your mom, because the primary bond that most of us have is with our mother.
I basically have no mom.
She has never been in the picture.
What do you mean? Narcotics.
Oh, gosh. Yeah, she made her decisions in life.
Instead of her kids, she chose methamphetamine.
You had a meth, mom?
Oh, dude, I'm so sorry.
Don't start laughing with me, because I'm not going to be invited into this happy world of the meth mom.
No, no, no. What the hell?
I mean, how did this come about?
What was the story? Well, I don't know her story.
She probably had it rough.
Was depressed.
She ain't really the most responsible person.
If she was a meth mom, who raised you?
How did you get food? Yeah, my father.
Your father, okay. Yeah, yeah.
And what's his story? Why is he making babies with a meth mom?
She wasn't on meth at that time.
It came after my birth.
Well, sorry, how do you know she didn't have a drug addiction before you were born?
Because I communicate with my father.
But how would he know?
Because he was in a relationship with her.
That doesn't mean that he knows everything that's going on.
I mean, I was just reading about how Jamie Lee Curtis had an opioid addiction for 10 years and her husband didn't know.
Ah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, if you're an addict, you're lying and hiding, and you're good at it.
Yeah, you're really good at that. Yeah, I mean, maybe she didn't, but it just seems odd.
Like, how old was she when she had you?
Oh, how old is my mother?
Just roughly, like late 20s, early 30s, mid-20s?
I think she was 22 or something.
22? Yeah, I think so.
Right. Okay, so she has you, and then she just says, all right, I think I'll go take meth.
Pretty much. And what happened then?
Well, divorce, of course.
How long? It went...
I don't think they were married, so it was pretty instant.
Oh, so they were boyfriend-girlfriends, so they just kind of broke up.
Yeah. And my dad filed for custody and it was a pretty lengthy process.
Oh, that means she fought him to keep you.
What? It means that she fought him to keep you.
No, she was pretty much not really...
Getting along with that idea.
She wants to get me into foster care.
Sorry, I mean, my understanding, I'm certainly no lawyer, and I'm certainly no expert in Swedish law, but if the husband says, I want custody of the kids, and the wife says, I think that's a really great idea, here you go, it shouldn't be a very lengthy process, should it?
No, she wasn't complying, really.
She was forcefully Trying to avoid it.
To destruct it.
Oh, so she was fighting him?
Yeah, she was fighting. To be destructive.
Okay. Yeah. She fight the custody.
So do you know how long it took for your dad to get custody?
I assume he did. Years.
I think it was a constant fight for like three years.
Wow. And did you see your mom during that period?
Do you know? You may not remember, of course, but do you know if you did?
I was an infant.
I can't even remember what color I had on my underwear last week.
Yeah, yeah. I get that. Okay.
Yeah. And what happened to your relationship with your mom after your father got custody?
Well, it was non-existent.
We moved to get away from the destruction of So now you live in the country, right?
Yeah, yeah. It went along well.
I'm very happy for my childhood.
I think my father did a really good job.
Wait, wait, what? You're happy for your childhood?
Yeah. Because I think my dad did a really good job.
I like myself. I like the one I am.
And it's mostly because of him.
Look, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, man.
I have to stop you here. Because this is just not true.
I'm not perfect. No, no.
Look, it's not true.
If you genuinely like yourself, you don't say that you love someone who calls you a needy little bitch.
No, seriously. I mean, I have to be really frank with you here.
Yeah, I know, I know. No, you don't.
No, because you're telling me that you're half-wedded to this verbal abuser, and then you're saying, but I liked my childhood, and I like myself.
If you like yourself...
Okay, let me explain it to you.
Okay. Yeah, yeah. So imagine that someone came up to your girlfriend and called her some horrible phrase.
Refer to her and you can just imagine the worst phrase that you could imagine, right?
Yeah, it has been done.
How would you feel? I would be enraged.
Ah, you would be enraged.
Why? Yeah. Yeah, because no one says stuff like that to the woman I love.
So why does she get to say that to you?
Why don't you have the same level of protection for yourself that you have for her?
If you like yourself.
Ooh, that's a tough one.
Not really. You understand?
Morally, you should take more care of yourself even than someone you love, because if you don't take care of yourself, you can't love them.
That's true. So why does she get to say this to you, but if anyone says anything like this to her, you're enraged?
Well, because it's...
The times she said those things is during the breakup process and during those times it's pretty rough and you say a lot of shit that you don't really mean.
And do you say those shit things too?
It happens.
Alright, so what's some of the stuff that you've said to her?
That I think she's selfish.
It's not really the same level, I know.
But what else? Are you selfish?
What else? Yeah, it's mostly the question, why?
Why not just sort things out and get it to work?
Because things doesn't work out simply because you want it.
You have to fight for it, especially in a relationship.
No, you don't. No, no.
People say this, and I think it's just something that's invented by verbal abusers.
Well, relationships are tough.
You've got to work at them.
They're difficult. There's going to be lots of problems, but you hang in there and you tough it out.
It's like, no, you don't. No.
We have things to get done in our life.
We have projects to build.
We have children to raise. We have civilizations to save.
Yeah. And the idea that we're going to squander massive amounts of emotional energy just trying to bail out a relationship that keeps sinking is bullshit.
Relationships are not tough.
They shouldn't be. They should be great.
They should be fun. They're voluntary.
Jobs! Well, you gotta have a job if you want to produce what you consume.
And jobs can be tough.
But the idea that relationships are tough, that's just a standard set up by shitty people who are difficult to get along with.
Because what they do is they set up this trap.
And this trap goes something like this.
Relationships are tough. And whenever the going gets tough, you just want to run away.
You just run away from this relationship and you bail out and you just won't do the necessary work.
That it's tough to do to make this relationship work and you have this fantasy that relationships are just easy and fun and great and don't require any effort and that's not true.
That's immature. So you gotta stay with me even though I'm hell to get along with because relationships are tough.
I know relationships aren't tough.
You're just a jerk. Not you, but you know the people who say this, right?
Relationships aren't difficult.
You're difficult. And people make this whole standard about how relationships are so tough.
They're not. Doesn't mean you don't have conflicts from time to time.
But my relationship with my wife is very easy.
And we've gone through some difficult times.
I mean, external to the relationship, right?
I've been sick. There have been various attacks.
I mean, it's just tough, right?
And I took a big pay cut to start doing a philosophy show.
So there have been tough circumstances.
My relationship with my daughter is very easy and very enjoyable.
And again, it doesn't mean we don't ever have conflicts.
We do. But I would really, I invite everyone out there listening to this, really reassess.
relationships and listen I had those people in my life trust me this is coming from a very vivid and empirical place I had those people in my life who like relationships are difficult relationships are tough it's like yeah it could be or maybe you're just an asshole and you're just having this standard so that you can continue to be an asshole and part of being an asshole is blaming people who want to get away from you being an asshole right because you say hey man I can't.
I can't. Like, this is horrible.
I'm not enjoying myself.
And then you say, like, I just want to end this relationship because it's not fun, right?
And then they say, oh, but relationships are tough and you just want to run away when the going gets tough.
No. I'm telling you, I've been on that side of the fence where the relationship is like this.
You ever tried to put up a tent and you don't know what you're doing and you don't read the instructions and it just keeps falling over and it's like you don't get any camping done because you're just trying to get the tent to stay up and it keeps falling over all the time.
One side goes up, the other side comes down.
It's like you're spending your whole time in this damn clammy canvas interior because you just can't get the damn tent to stay up to the point where you can go and enjoy a hike and some fishing and some swimming and whatever you're doing out there in the woods.
So your whole time, camping is just trying to get the tent to stay up.
You say, well, camping is tough.
It's like, no, you just suck at keeping a tent up or you have a bad tent or whatever it is, but you're supposed to get the tent up and go and enjoy your damn camping.
You're a car enthusiast, right?
So you ever have these cars, they just keep failing all the time?
Well, you know, cars are tough.
It's like, no. Crappy cars are tough.
Lemons are tough. Cars that are badly made or badly maintained, they're tough because you can't rely on them.
But there's lots of cars out there you can rely on.
You get in behind them, you hit the gas, you turn the wheel, you get where you want to go.
Well, I have a special love for crappy cars, so...
Well, I think we know where that comes from.
I have no idea.
You have a high-maintenance girlfriend and you have a high-maintenance car.
Hmm. Makes sense.
All right. So, do you have any relationship with your mother now?
Not at all. When did you last see her?
Uh... Two and a half years ago.
Right. Not really sure.
She got on the drugs again.
Right. I'm sorry to hear that, of course.
Yeah, yeah. How does your father explain the unbelievably terrible choice that he made for the mother of his children?
Because he couldn't have chosen a worse mom, really.
Unless she, you know, duct taped you to a car and drove you into a fjord or something, right?
So how does your father explain that he chose just about the worst possible woman to be the mother of his children?
Well, he wasn't like that in the beginning, basically.
Well, that's not true. You don't just suddenly become a meth addict.
Like, it doesn't just come out of nowhere.
Well, I couldn't know.
The only thing I can believe is the things that's been said to me.
So he says that she was basically a great woman and had all the indications of being a great mom, and then she just kind of went off on meth after you were born.
Some people is really good at faking.
And she's one of those.
Well, how do you know? How do you know she was good at faking?
Because I have spent time with my mother and it hasn't worked out.
Oh, so she's good at faking things with you?
She's pretty much good at faking things with everyone.
Does your father know what kind of childhood your meth mom had?
I have no...
I'm not really sure, but the only thing I know is that My mother's parents was abusing.
It was a lot of verbal violence and such.
Verbal violence. Yeah.
And that's bad, right?
Yeah, of course.
Except when your girlfriend does it, then it's just circumstances and environment, right?
I see what you did there.
Actually, it's what you did.
I just pointed it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right. Yeah.
So your mother had a terrible childhood, is that fair to say?
Yeah. Do you know if the abuse was more than verbal?
I don't know. There may have been some physical violence between her parents.
I don't think that they communicate a lot and they're pretty closed in their self emotionally.
Do you have any thoughts or indications that she may have experienced sexual abuse?
Because meth is a hell of a drug, right?
And it doesn't mean that everyone who's a meth addict was sexually abused, but I gotta imagine that this is based upon some of the stuff I've read from Dr.
Gabor Maté. You should read in the Realm of Hungry Ghosts that he says that all of the Heroin addicts that he knew as a doctor, they all were sexually abused as children.
And again, this is not science, this is just what he said, and I think there's some indication, but do you...
I mean, that's a hell of a...
It's a hell of a drug, and if it's a hell of a drug, it means usually that there's a hell of a wound.
Yeah. And so, do you have any indications or thoughts or anything like that that she may have been sexually abused as a child?
I wouldn't think so from...
Her parents. Right.
But I can never know.
So your father, for sure, did have...
Was it just you or other children?
She had a daughter from a previous relationship.
Oh, so she was a single mom?
Yeah. Single mom, meth mom, and this is your dad.
This is who your dad decided to knock up, right?
Yeah, well, my father didn't have it.
She can't have been faking it that much.
She comes from an abusive history.
She's a single mom.
And your dad like, hey, let's make a baby.
Basically, pretty much.
Right. Yeah.
Is your mom verbally abusive?
I think she's more psychological Psychologically abusive.
How so? In what way?
In a sense that she blames everything and everyone else for her struggles, even her children.
She blames her children for her addictions?
Pretty much. She blames everything for everything, except herself.
Right. You understand that you've internalized that a little bit, right?
Because that's true of both of your parents to some degree, because your father says, well, she's just really good at hiding.
She just fooled me completely.
There was no indication.
It's like, no, no, she came from an abusive history.
She was a single mom.
Come on. There were some signs that this was not the ideal woman to have a child with, right?
And then when it came to, I said, why does your girlfriend call you these horrible names?
And you said, circumstances, environment, stuff.
Not her and her own responsibility for what comes out of her damn mouth, right?
Well, that's true.
Right. Because you see...
Your mother blames you and her other child by another baby daddy, or by another daddy.
Your mother blames you for her addiction.
And I think... Well, partly.
Yeah, partly. I mean, she blames other things, but it's never herself, right?
No responsibility. People in her environment or the weather or the telephone bill or whatever.
Look, she's done so much wrong in her life that, I mean, the recovery is...
Forget it. Forget it, in my opinion, right?
Yeah, yeah. It's never going to happen.
Yeah, that's why I don't...
You can't fix relationships if you can't undo what you've done.
And there's no way to undo being on drugs and fighting...
Your dad for custody and making things miserable and just being horrible in general.
So, here's the problem.
If you are surrounded by people who've made incredibly destructive decisions and they don't take any ownership, do you know who gets to take that ownership?
Someone. Who's that?
Well, I think that you are Assuming me, but I don't feel it.
Well, you're not all the way there.
Like, you didn't say the reason my girlfriend calls me these horrible names is because I do this, that, and the other.
Although you did say it to some degree because you said I am needy, right?
Yeah, yeah. I know that I am.
I'm a pretty soft guy.
Well, who we are is to some degree genetic, it's to some degree environmental, but it has a hell of a lot to do with what we tell ourselves about who we are, right?
Yeah. So what would it be like if you weren't responsible for anyone's behavior?
What would that be like in your life if you had 0% responsibility for anyone else's behavior?
Well, I... I don't really have.
The only person I can take full responsibility over is myself.
It's my own action and my own thoughts.
Right. So, you are blaming yourself for what your girlfriend does.
To some degree, you are.
Partially. We are two persons in Okay, here's what you need to know about your history and about life and about your future.
Because your future has to be different from the past.
Otherwise you're just going to continue to be sexless and miserable and you're going to be forever chasing after this woman who has very clearly said she's not going to give you what you want.
Yeah, it would basically drive me nuts.
Oh yeah, like you know there's this phrase, I don't know if it's where you are, but there's this phrase, the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Well, I think if you go for, so the straw that breaks the camel's back, right?
So you can put a whole lot of straw on a camel's back, right?
Then you just put one little piece of straw and crack, you break the camel's back, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a straw that breaks the camel's back, and then there's the dicks that break the woman's bond.
Yeah. She's had too many, in my humble opinion.
Now, men can survive more casual sexual encounters, I think.
Than women can. I don't have any proof for that.
It's just sort of empirical data from people I've spoken to over the years and so on.
But men and women are a little different this way.
It's also very tough if a woman's been promiscuous and 25 by 25 or early 20s, that's pretty damn promiscuous.
It's pretty tough when a woman's taken a lot of dick, but she won't take yours.
Yeah. Right? I mean, that's...
That's pretty rough, man.
I'll eat anything. Here, here's some food.
Oh, God, no, I'm not going to eat that.
Yeah, I know that she really enjoys our sex, too.
And that's the hard part, because we have wonderful sex.
It's like out of this world when it's not those five-minute quickies.
Well, but that's a couple times a year, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. Well, pretty much.
That's a long way between oasis.
It's a lot of time in the desert.
So here's the thing, man. You are not responsible for anyone's behavior towards you.
Now, people will try to make you responsible.
Like, she'll say, well, I'll call you a needy little bitch because you're a needy little bitch.
And I'm just calling it like it is.
Like, you know, someone comes up to me and says, hey, you're bald.
And it's like, yeah, I'm bald.
And, you know, I mean, it's, you know, you're Caucasian and you're bald and you're male.
And it's like, I'm just, and you're a needy little bitch, right?
So she'll say, well, it's just, you know, I'm just telling it like it is, right?
Yeah. But...
It's a horrible thing to do to someone.
Yeah, of course. Because if you are what she says you are, I don't think you are, but if you are what she says you are, then why the hell would she be with you?
I have no idea.
But for some reason she comes back again and again.
She comes back in part for the money and she comes back in part because she probably had a family where the woman verbally abused the dad and that's just the script.
Yeah. You know, when you don't have choice, when you don't have self-knowledge, when you don't have philosophy, you get a script.
You get a script. And there's very little ad-libbing allowed.
And the script is just history.
What you saw growing up, that's what you get to do again and again and again and over and over and over.
So all you get to do is whatever you saw growing up.
You're just a broken record of broken people.
That's all it is. It's grim repetition of habitual abuse.
Yeah. And so the reason why she comes back is she probably feels out of control of her life and she probably had a family where the woman felt out of control of her life and so when some people are out of control of their lives, what they do is try to gain control over someone else.
And you happen to be that person and it fits because you'll take it.
You know, why does Willie Horton rob a bank?
Because that's where the money is. Why does she verbally abuse you?
Because you'll take it.
And you'll internalize it.
And so then she feels she has power over you.
Yeah, of course. She knows that I'm not going anywhere.
I will not break up.
Why on earth would you not break up with this woman?
Because of feelings.
But the feelings... Come on, man.
Did you not learn anything from your mother?
Did she have the feeling that she wanted these drugs?
Probably. Of course she did.
Yeah. Should she have had those drugs?
Probably not. Oh, come on, man.
Come on. It's pretty obvious.
Yes or no? Should she have taken the drugs?
No. No. And when your mom was sitting there with her legs spread and your dad was hovering over her, should he have chosen this woman as your mom?
I know there's all this, well, if she wasn't my mom, I wouldn't be, but just ideally, if you had a son who called you up and said, hey, dad, there's a woman in the next room, she's ready to roll, man.
She's oiled up like a Saudi Derek and she is ready to roll.
Now, she's a single mom.
She comes from an abusive history.
I think she's got addictive personality traits.
What do you think? Should I bareback it?
Should I just go in, no condom, and take my chances?
What would you say? Run off!
Right. So your father, you see, he had a desire to have sex with your mom, and your mom had a desire for drugs.
And you have probably countless examples around you of people who wanted something that was terrible for them.
And then when I say, eh, this may not be the very best thing in the world for you, you're like, but I want it!
Like you have no experience of people who want things that are incredibly self-destructive.
Yeah. Your mother wanted to fight your father about custody, so she did.
Should she have? Yeah. No!
No. Because it consumed money, time, energy, and resources, and it meant that nobody was there for you emotionally, or probably wasn't there for you emotionally, when you were a baby and a toddler.
Which means that you have unfulfilled bonding requirements.
Now what you can do if you have unfulfilled bonding requirements, which means you didn't bond with your mom, didn't bond with your dad, your mom because she was a meth mom and your dad because he was fighting with a meth mom.
So you have these, you have this neediness.
Now what you can do is you can say, shit man, I did not get what I wanted as a kid.
I did not get what I deserved as a kid.
I did not get what I needed as a child.
That's horrible. And do you know who's 100% responsible for that?
Your parents! And your parents' parents and everyone who was around them who didn't give them better advice.
Yeah. So you had nothing to do with the suffering you experienced as a baby, as a toddler, as a child.
You were just trying to survive and make your way in a chaotic, dangerous, crazy world.
Yeah, of course. Right.
Now... But under the circumstances, I think my father did a good job.
Because the bond me and my father has, it's unbreakable.
We are basically like twins.
Fuck, man. Okay, now I get this.
I get that you have to bond with the parent who wasn't about that.
The parent that is available. But listen, man, if your father and you have such a bond, why the fuck are you in a relationship where you're being verbally abused to this degree?
Why is he not helping you move out tonight?
Why is he not saying, hey man, that woman is to you like meth was to your mom.
I don't care if I have to punch you in the dick, you gotta stop.
You can't go back.
You can't take her back.
Well, his current relationship isn't that great either.
So, we're pretty much stuck, both of us.
There's a reason you're calling me.
Yeah, of course. I'm never gonna leave this woman.
It's like, so you fight me. But you want to hear the truth from me.
Yeah, of course. This relationship will not work.
Because you're trying to use her to fix your childhood.
And your childhood cannot be fixed.
Because it's a quarter century ago, man.
You can't go back and fix it.
No. You can't.
That doesn't mean you have to be unhappy.
You can be happier than the average.
But you have to accept and mourn and grieve.
You have shown me. You have told me the most terrible things that a child could really experience.
And you have expressed no sadness whatsoever.
No emotional connection.
No unhappiness. I know that you have heard worse.
I'm talking about you.
I've never, I've never talked to someone that I can recall whose mom did meth after they were born and then blamed them.
Probably not. So, the reason why you're in this messy relationship, what are you doing?
What's so loud? What's this banging and clacking?
It's very distracting and it's important that it's coming up right now when we're getting to the core of the issue, right?
So what are you doing? What I'm doing?
Because you're banging and clanking trying to distract me or rather your parents are banging and clanking in your head trying to distract me.
It won't work but I'm just pointing it out.
I think I'm doing it because I'm confused internally.
I don't Know myself what's right or what's wrong or what's up or down.
Because I think all the time.
And it's driving me crazy.
Because your thinking won't help you with this.
You have to feel. No, I know.
No, you have to feel. Listen, man, you had a shitty childhood.
I'm sorry to tell you that.
Everything you've told me.
Yeah. You had a shitty childhood, and as the old Robin Williams, Matt Daveman movie goes, it wasn't your fault at all.
And I don't think people have taken enough ownership for what happened to you.
Your mom's like, well, it was the drugs, it was the circumstances, it was the environment, and your dad was like, well, she was a chameleon, and I couldn't tell, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
But he has apologized for his shoes of women.
But he's still choosing bad women, isn't he?
You said his relationship now was bad.
And he's not helping you un-choose a verbally abusive, sexless woman who's going through your wallet like a caterpillar chewing up a leaf.
It ain't really that bad.
No, it's bad!
You're verbally abused, you're not having sex, and you're paying the bills.
Yeah. How is that not bad?
And she breaks up with you all the time.
And you've been apart more than you've been together over the last three years.
And you have sex with other women when you're broken up.
See, if you really loved her, man, you wouldn't be out banging other women the moment she breaks up with you.
You don't love her. Well, it wasn't that I did it immediately the day after.
Yeah, that's the important part of what I'm saying, right?
You want to split hairs with me at that level?
Empirically, if you can go fuck another woman after the love of your life breaks up with you, she ain't the love of your life, man.
Maybe not. My wife walks out on me tomorrow.
Do you think I'm poking the back 40 in a week or two?
Of course not. No.
Of course not. She's irreplaceable.
Yeah. Do you want to have kids?
Of course. And I don't want to give them the childhood that I have gotten.
Well, you're on your way to do it.
Yeah, I think so. Probably.
Look, when she has power over you, she calls you horrible things.
What do you think she's going to do to your kids, man?
Come on. I ask myself that question.
No, there's no need to ask yourself.
She's going to be verbally abusive to your kids.
And then your kids are going to come to you and say, Dad, why did you have children with a verbally abusive woman?
And you're going to say, no, she was nice!
There was no indication!
And then they're going to find this podcast and they're going to say, screw you, Dad.
You liar. You liar.
Well, yeah.
You don't have the right to inflict this woman on your kids.
Look, if you just want to have your quarterly decent sex and monthly terrible sex, and you want to pay her bills and you want to run around with her and try and get her to be nice to you and sit down and swallow all the verbal abuse, I think it's a shitty way to live your life, but that's your life.
You have the right to inflict that upon yourself, even though you are enabling her worst habits.
You have the right to inflict that on yourself.
And if you want to, oh, you know, we'll break up.
I'll go bang another couple of chicks.
Maybe you'll go sleep with some guy and we'll get back together and we'll ignore each other and then we'll yell at each other and then you'll call me names.
And then you'll, you know, go stay at your parents' place for a couple of nights a week because 15 minutes is too far to commute to see.
Like if you want to waste your life.
In that shitty little death spiral of a bullshit non-relationship, well, that's your choice.
But, but, but, but, the moment you start thinking about having kids, well, it's no longer your choice now, is it?
You choose your partner as if your future children get the deciding vote.
Yeah. Do your future children...
Want this woman as their mom?
Probably not. Not in the current state.
There is no different state.
Do you know why? Because she's not admitting any fault.
Right? No.
Why do I call you a needy little bitch?
Because you're a needy little bitch! That's not taking any ownership.
That's not saying, my gosh, I said a terrible thing to the man that I love.
I have a demon of a temper inside me and I'm going to work for months or years to find a way to deal with it so that it never happens again.
She repeatedly breaks up with you and she knows you have trust issues.
She knows that you have bonding issues and that the worst thing she can do is break up with you and then get back.
So she is harming you as much as a person possibly could.
She's harming you as much as a person possibly could.
You had an inconstant mother.
She knows about your mom, right?
Yeah. So you had a mother who abandoned you, and then this woman repeatedly breaks up with you!
Yeah. You understand? And the fun part is that...
No, no, no. Don't give me this fun part bullshit, man.
You have to start getting in touch with being sad and angry.
It's not fun. It's monstrous.
Okay, it's not fun, but this woman...
Thinks it's very strange that I don't want to have any connection with my mother.
So the fact that you don't want to have any connection with the mother who was about the worst mother that could be conceived of, she would rather you be in contact with the meth mom who broke your heart in two, right? Yeah.
Dude, the fuck are you doing?
What are you doing? What are you doing with your life?
What are you doing with your heart?
What are you doing with your balls?
I've asked myself that question a thousand times, if not more.
But you're part of a whole system.
This relationship with your girlfriend is part of a whole system.
Yeah, yeah. And the system is your mother, and the sister is your father, and the sister is your half-sister, and the system is your half-sister, and the system is your culture, and the system is all the white knighting, and all the deferral, and all of the lack of masculinity in Sweden.
It's everything. Yeah, it's a red line that connects everything.
Right. Yeah.
And all you have to do is walk away from that mess.
It doesn't mean abandon everyone.
I can't tell you what to do, you understand?
I can only tell you what I would advise you to do if you were some close friend.
I could only tell you what I would do.
Is I would say that this relationship is a manifestation of prior abuse and it is destructive for me and it is destructive for this woman to be in this relationship.
I am bringing out the worst in her and she is bringing out the worst in me.
It might escalate.
It might get violent one day or we might scar each other to the point where we can never love again.
We're playing with fire every time we interact.
Yeah. I'm cheapening myself by paying a woman's bills who doesn't even want to touch me, except for a tiny peck on the cheek or on the lips when I'm going off to get money for her.
The only time she kisses you, you said, is when you're going off to work.
Yeah. And if you think this is all you deserve, then this is all you're going to get.
There's no exterior justice in the world that lifts you to a higher place.
You've got to fight to get there.
You've got to work to get there.
You don't just wake up one morning at the top of Mount Everest.
You train and you work and you hike like hell to get there.
Yeah. So if this is all you think you deserve, this is all you're going to get.
I'm well aware that I deserve so much more because the person I am with her is not the person I truly am.
And I miss myself.
The person you truly are is what you repeatedly do.
If I say I'm a surgeon and it's like, well, you ever studied surgery?
No. Well, then you're not a surgeon.
The person you are is whatever you repeatedly do.
I'm an empiricist, right? So if you say, well, I'm better than this, be like, okay, well, then you have to act on that or you're not.
You say, well, I'm better than this relationship.
It's like, okay, well, then you have to leave the relationship or you're not better than this because we are what we accept.
We are what we do. People say, oh, Steph, you're not a philosopher because you don't have a PhD from halala, right?
Yeah. I don't care. Why on earth would I care about any of that?
Yeah. This is what I repeatedly do.
Yeah. You're not good for her, you understand?
Because every time she verbally abuses you, she crushes her capacity to love more.
You're an environmental toxin for each other.
You're both bringing out the worst in each other.
It's very unhealthy.
Very unhealthy. And every single day that it continues, it gets unhealthier and unhealthier.
And at some point, I'm telling you, man, the straw that breaks the camel's back, you're going to have one day, you wake up, one thing happens, one thing that is said, and your heart will just die, you know?
Two wet fingers on a candle.
Out it goes. And you will never be able to relight it.
You know, like who knows if you're a chain smoker or just a smoker as a whole.
Who knows which cigarette gives you cancer?
One of them will if the lung cancer is caused by the smoking, right?
It could be your 10,000th cigarette.
It could be your 20,000th cigarette.
It could be your fifth cigarette.
One of those cigarettes is going to give you cancer.
In other words, if you had quit before that one cigarette, you wouldn't die of cancer.
But you had that cigarette, and your fate was sealed.
So think of those cigarettes like every day you have a shitty relationship with your girlfriend.
And by shitty, I don't mean that you're yelling.
It's not satisfying.
You're not close. You're not connected.
You're not in love. You're not cuddling.
You're not having sex. It's just not good.
Every single one of those days, like smoking a cigarette.
And each little cigarette is like, eh, you know, this is kind of nice.
It's kind of familiar. I'm kind of addicted.
But, you know, quitting is a whole lot of work.
And I kind of know that I should, but I'll defer it.
And it's like, keep sucking down the cigarettes, right?
And then that one happens.
Could be it's one puff. Maybe it's one puff on one cigarette, right?
Yeah. Your 25,433rd puff.
Now you get cancer, man.
If you had quit one puff before, you wouldn't.
You had that puff, and now your fate is sealed.
It's the same thing with love, man.
You spend time in a shitty relationship, having shitty interactions, not getting what you want.
Every single day, it's like two wet fingers getting closer and closer.
To the heat of your heart. And one day, one day, could be right in the middle of the afternoon, could be at 3.32 tomorrow, could be any time.
One day, those two wet fingers, they touch on the wick, and your heart goes out.
And you will never be able to relight it.
You are playing, not with fire, but with cold.
You understand? Yeah.
Because love is warm.
Sorry? Love is warm.
And what you've got is cold.
And it's cold without love.
And it's not going to change.
Probably not. No, it's not going to change.
No. There is no magic.
The only way things change is if people really, really work to change.
And you guys have done so much damage to each other.
Why on earth would you want to work with each other?
If you suddenly wake up tomorrow, you both wake up tomorrow and say, holy shit, I'm verbally abusive because of this.
I'm submissive because of this.
I'm overcompliant because of this.
I have a mean temper because of this.
Why on earth would you want to try and fix it with each other when you have...
Years and years of old bad habits with each other.
You know what they say when you're trying to quit an addiction?
You have to quit every environment to do with that addiction.
If you want to quit drinking, you can't go to bars, you can't hang out with drinkers, you can't go to parties, you can't go to discos.
You have to be away, far away from all of the stimulus that produced and enabled and enhanced your addiction.
So if you guys have been treating each other badly for years...
Why would you want to try and fix things with each other even if you did wake up tomorrow with some massive wisdom push in your mind?
You would want to work with new people where you hadn't harmed each other, where you didn't have those old habits, right?
Yeah. All right.
Well, I don't think I'm getting through to you much, but hopefully I'm getting through to the audience.
Because again, I know that Swiss people are not the most emotionally expressive, but you're not budging much in terms of your feelings, which is to some degree your choice.
But I think I will have to rest content that it is the audience who gains the wisdom from this conversation.
Hopefully. All right.
Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it, man.
Yeah, I appreciate it too.
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