Jan. 15, 2018 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:17:24
3964 The Aziz Ansari Controversy | Owen Benjamin and Stefan Molyneux
NBC series “Parks and Recreation” and Netflix series “Master of None” actor Aziz Ansari was recently accused of sexual misconduct by an anonymous woman and claims of hypocrisy by the court of public opinion due to his insistent male feminist proclamations. Owen Benjamin is a popular comedian and the host of the “Why Didn’t They Laugh?” podcast. Website: http://www.hugepianist.comYouTube: http://www.youtube.com/owenbenjamincomedyTwitter: http://www.twitter.com/OwenBenjaminBoth Stefan and Owen be appearing at “A Night For Freedom” on Saturday, January 20, 2018 in New York, NY – along with frequent Freedomain Radio guests Mike Cernovich, Gavin McInnes and many more! Get your tickets now at anightforfreedom.com"I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life;" https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355Aziz Ansari Statement: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/aziz-ansari-responds-allegation-sexual-misconduct-i-took-her-words-heart-1074658Your support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
Hi everybody, Stefan Wollinger here, back with Owen Benjamin.
Yes, he's a quick boomerang repeat guest, but you know, I was going to do something on this story, because I find it...
Moving and interesting and kind of powerful and kind of tragic and all kinds of things.
And this is the story of Aziz Ansari and the bad dates.
I was going to do a solo and then the thought popped in my head, what do I know about comedy clubs other than an audience member?
Who do I know? I know someone.
I feel like I know someone who can help me out with this.
So I appreciate that.
But just before we get started, I wanted to mention to people or remind people that Owen and I... We'll be appearing at A Night for Freedom.
They spelled it with me with a K, so I'm coming in full plate armor.
A Night for Freedom on Saturday, January 20th, 2018 in New York, New York.
And you're going to see Mike Cernovich, Gavin McInnes, many more.
And also, if you want to catch Owen's comedy, which I would highly recommend, January 25th to 27th, Burlington.
Vermont, February 24th.
Saranac Lake, New York, March 8th to 11th.
I think that's continuous without any breaks whatsoever.
No sleeping, no eating, no pissing.
Nothing. Houston, Texas, March 15th.
Brooklyn, New York, March 22nd.
Cleveland, Ohio. And March 23rd, Chicago, Illinois.
The last standing building in the Winding City, I believe.
So, oh, and thanks for, yeah, thanks.
I knew you were just like live casting and all that.
So thanks a lot for... Oh, I'm excited.
I love doing your show.
That was a blast last time. The feedback was really sweet.
Good, good. All right. So I've been reading this long article about it, and did you want to give a little background?
You may have an opinion or two about our good friend Aziz, but tell me what you think, and then let's go through this article a bit, because I'm really torn about this.
I'm not usually this ambivalent about stuff, but maybe you can set me straight.
So what are your thoughts and experience with the guy?
Well, I can't stand the guy.
And I've always been very vocal about that.
And like most comics hate him, but they just he has power.
So people just don't say anything.
And I just don't really respect that.
So I'm always like, you know, he's real mean to everyone.
And he's like a real prick.
Like one time I went up to him and I was like, oh, hey, man.
And he just looked at me and just is like.
Like almost disgust.
And I'm used to the artist type, so I assume Asperger's or something.
So I'm like, I'm not going to take offense to it.
Some people just... And I'm 6'7", he's 5'3", so it's like, maybe he's scared.
I don't understand. That happens again, and I'm still like, okay, this guy's kind of annoying.
But then I'm out one night in New York with Vince Vaughn.
And a much different man I saw.
Oh, because Vince Vaughn has some juice, so suddenly he's all kinds of humping the leg of fame.
Yeah, and Vince is just like a Labrador, just loves everybody.
He's like, baby, I'm telling you, we got a guy over here.
And then Aziz comes out of nowhere.
He's like, hey, Vince!
And I'm like, you slimy bitch.
And at that point, and then when I saw him on stage, what he says is, He just says men are awful, and he brags about how many white women he has sex with, and he's just this victim, and it's just horrible comedy.
And I'm torn as well on this situation, but I came up with a theory I want to run past you.
Due process legally, and then due process socially.
I think all Everyone should have due process in the law.
Like an accusation is not guilt or anything, but due process socially, I think you should be held to the standards that you try and push.
Like when he says, believe all women, all men suck.
I'm sorry, ladies.
It's like, okay, now you're going down, dude.
Because you're not set in reality.
And if you're going to make it so that every time a woman accuses any man of anything, the woman's right and the guy's a pig, well, now you just get to sleep in the bed that you made socially.
You should be outcast.
Bye. You know, I mean, you don't go to jail for that, but, like, I just think that these leftists that want to set up this unlivable reality, it's like, enjoy that.
And I argue, like, my buddy Dave Smith, I think you know Dave Smith, like, we got in a good debate about that, a very respectful one, but...
You know, about that you should live your ethics at all times, like, that I should defend.
I don't know. I should revisit that.
But I just, I think that if someone holds that standard to all other men, I don't know, man.
I just like seeing him going down.
I'm not going to lie. Well, I don't think the woman liked seeing him going down.
Boom! Right there, right there in the article.
But no, and this question of it's immoral but not illegal, that to me is something that we have a tough time with because we're so used to swinging this big, giant, meaty Game of Thrones club of law at everyone.
It's like it's either completely illegal or anything goes.
And I think there's this kind of gray area where we can really strongly disapprove of someone without thinking they should be thrown in jail.
And this kind of ostracism and moral examination of this stuff I think is really important.
So, yeah, the guy didn't rape her.
And I can vaguely understand how if you have no capacity for human empathy, you might construe half a blowjob as consent.
But... There is a fundamental mess here that I think is right at the heart of a huge mess going on in society as a whole.
And I say this as the father of a daughter.
And she's like nine years from set and sail into this world of sexual wreckage and no standards and predation and ignorance and crossing your fingers and hoping for the best and no schooling on the nature of man and the vulnerability of women.
And this is why I'm sort of going back.
And fourth, so let's dive into this essay or this article that was written.
And it was called, I went on a date with Aziz Ansari.
It turned into the worst night of my life.
So there's this bit at the beginning where they meet.
It's kind of a cute story. He's got an old-style camera.
And then she's 22 years old.
Now, he's in his 30s, right?
Now, okay. Okay, that's fine.
But... I'm not sure how women as a whole, when they're 22, anticipate that they are going to be intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally fascinating to very successful guys in their 30s.
Like, when you are 22, and I assume this is an attractive woman, of course, right?
And so when you're 22, and a guy who's worth $18 million and is a fairly big celebrity, certainly relative to you, if he shows interest in you, Where are the people saying he's probably only after one thing?
Like, that used to be kind of understood when I was younger.
And it seems to have kind of been flown out the window.
Like, this woman just seems to have wandered into the lion's den, so to speak, completely unprepared and unaware.
Yeah, I think it's a lack of community.
It's like there's a lot of just deep fundamental problems that...
That create situations like that.
Like, it sounds like this girl didn't have friends that just were like, hey, whatever her name is, it's like, you may not want to do this, and if you do that, don't, like, drink booze and then go to his room.
You know? And it's...
It's like, yeah, it's just a fundamental lack of just understanding the predation in the world, you know?
And then, but with him, it's like he's blatantly a creep.
And someone on Twitter, because I was just kind of roasting him today, and someone said, yeah, but he could, an awkward 15-year-old boy not good in understanding science.
I go, he's not.
He's a mid-30s multimillionaire who's made his money Writing books dating in the modern age and condemning men and saying, on behalf of all men, sorry.
It's like, no, that guy is not just your standard man.
That's a charlatan.
That's a guy who's projecting that he's the good guy and all these other men are toxic.
It's like, no, buddy.
You are going to get hammered for that.
Male feminists, the very definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Oh, those guys over there, they're really bad.
That's like, oh, gross.
Spray it off. Spray it off.
Now, the thing that started to trouble me in reading this was, you know, they flirt a little bit at this after party that they were at.
And she's there with a date, right?
So the article says they flirted a little.
He took two pictures of her, and she snapped some of him.
And then she and her date went back to the dance floor.
So she's there with a guy.
And then they ran into each other one last time, right as Grace was leaving.
This is a pseudonym. And at Ansari's suggestion, she put her number in his phone.
Hmm. Now, I've been on dates in my life, and if...
A girl that I was on a date with put her phone number in another guy's phone while we were on the date?
I feel the patriarchy has been besmirched.
That does not seem ideal to me.
Yeah, that happened to me once.
It made me, like, freakishly sad.
Yeah, it's horrible. Like years ago, like a girl, I saw her give a number to a guy.
I was much younger, and I just remember just feeling like I got crushed.
No, it's horrible. It's horrible.
And this, to me, this is the hypergamy thing, right?
This is the trade-up thing.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, Owen, and I'm going to suggest the possibility that the guy she was on the date with was not worth $18 million.
That's, you know, one theoretical possibility, as most of us aren't.
And so she's like, okay, there's this guy.
We're chatting a little bit.
I'm putting my number in the phone.
And because it's an upgrade, I assume, from the guy.
And so she's looking for a relationship.
Because you don't upgrade just for sex.
You don't say, okay, here's this tiny little 35-year-old guy.
Ooh, that's going to be a big upgrade.
So she's upgrading because he's got resources, he's got fame, he's got all of that 50 shades of gray stuff that tickles a woman where the sun don't shine.
And so she wants to upgrade, and she reaches out in this kind of way, and she flies back to New York, and she's already got a text message, and they back and forth and all, and then they go out, right?
So then the question is, right, if she's got a father, and I would not be at all shocked if it comes out, you know, son of a single mom, oh, sorry, daughter of a single mom kind of thing.
So, you know, your daughter calls you up and says, I met this guy, I was on a date with someone, I left my number with some other guy, and I'd be like, whoa, whoa, okay, let's back that part up, because that's really bad.
Like, that's, you do not, I mean, I don't care how hot the guy is, you don't give your number to another guy when you're on a date with the first guy, that's just...
And that guy will never trust you now.
Like, you can't start a relationship from infidelity.
I mean, I'm sure it's worked at some point, but I would...
If a girl cheated on a guy to be with me, I would always have that in my head.
I would always be like, I could be the next guy.
I just don't think that's a good basis to start a relationship with.
And I also think that these women and men that pursue power over ethics or power over purpose or what you are, it always ends in betrayal.
Because power just keeps shifting.
It's like, if you're pursuing power, you'll be on top for a little while.
It's male feminist plus money plus time equals rape accusation.
It's math.
Every one of these guys will be on the cover of People, Louis C.K. on the cover of GQ. Just TikTok, TikTok.
If you're going after power, it just can't work.
I think some of my biggest successes in life is when I make friendships based on the person, the individual, and then that person gets wildly successful and then puts me in a show or something.
But it's the same with a lot of these people.
I think Aziz probably is horrible at reading the language of a woman sexually because a lot of these, not to sound...
I obviously hate the left.
I don't want to sound so like the left, but they see people as demographics.
So they don't see...
This means she's not that into it.
You know, it's not a human being.
It's a conquest. It's another white girl that he brags about on stage.
Right. So then she says it was surreal to be meeting up with Ansari, a successful comedian and major celebrity.
Well, I don't know about major. I mean, I didn't know about the guy, but what the hell do I know, right?
He's a pilot fish to very large sharks.
Okay.
And she was excited for their date.
So she's all geared up because this is like a successful guy, major celebrity.
He's a high status male.
She can brag about it.
And even in the article, and I thought this was kind of sad in a way, she, I guess, had publicly posted or had kept a photo of the meal that they had.
And I don't understand this photographing of food stuff.
I mean, unless you're directly working for a cookbook, for God's sakes, just have a conversation and put your damn phone away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ah, so he gave her a dress code.
That's handy. She settled on a tank top dress and jeans.
All right. So when you have an older, powerful man who just met you briefly and wants you to go on a date with him, and the only thing that you're talking about your friends with is your outfit, which, you know, I'm no fashion top expert, but tank top dress, it's basically designed to look like naked from the nipples up.
Isn't that sort of like you're supposed to be emerging from water with no clothes on?
That's the kind of look. But shouldn't you be talking etiquette and he's experienced and he's powerful and what's it like and do research on the guy?
And if he's got all these comedy bits about fucking white girls and if you're a white girl, shouldn't you be...
I mean, this is... Like, shouldn't you be exploring and trying to figure out the safety and security rather than, you know, how much of my cleavage should I show without getting arrested?
Yeah, man, it's really sad.
It's a real cultural...
Deficit. It's like the Fifty Shades isn't real.
It's like you don't want a rich guy to dress you up and objectify you and then somehow fall in love with you because that will never happen.
If a guy is telling you what to wear on a first date and you just met the guys, he's just taking pictures at a party and he gets your number while you're with another guy, like that guy wants to have sex with you and he has no respect for you and he never wants, he's just It's sad.
It's because you have a daughter.
I have two beautiful nieces and it's like, it definitely changes.
It gets you a little more protective and a little more like, oh, I know.
I can't imagine. Yeah.
But it's like, you just think about these predators and you're like, man, I wish some guy had just taught this girl to like, watch out for that.
You know? Yeah. You're 22, you're young, you're hot, you're dressed to the nines, you're looking as sexy as humanly possible, so you're kind of playing the V card.
Now, once you start playing the V card, guys go a little squirrely as a whole.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. You know, like the blood drains, you know, the old joke, you know, you can't think with both heads and all that.
Like the blood drains, you get kind of hormone-y.
I mean, you play the V card.
Like, I'm not saying you've got to, you know, show up in a beekeeper's outfit, although that will be my daughter's preferred dating methodology, but...
When you play the V-card, guys get a little squirrely.
So they arrive at his apartment and exchange small talk and drink wine.
And what's interesting, she says, it was white, she said.
I didn't get to choose, and I prefer red.
But it was white wine.
Now, these little details, Owen, are always fascinating to me.
See, she didn't get to choose her drink.
Now, she couldn't even consent to the drink.
Whoa! That's interesting. He told her what to drink.
And I wish people...
Like, you ever read a story and then you go back and you say, oh, that's why that bit was in the beginning.
Now it makes sense, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'm really trying in my show, like I try to alert people to this shit.
He tells you, this is the dress code.
Okay, so he's kind of telling you what to wear.
A little bit, right? And then...
Here's some wine. And she doesn't even get to choose the wine that she wants.
Okay, so this may be a bit of a control freak.
And this is a guy who's not really taking care.
He's seeing what he can get away with.
Is she going to say, oh, no, I don't like white.
Give me red. Well, that would be a sign of saying that she's assertive and she says what she wants.
But he's saying, you drink this, basically.
And if she's like, okay, then that's a sign to him.
It's a series of compliance.
And that's how you break an animal.
That's how you break a dog.
It's how, like, authoritarians break people.
It's what's gotten me in trouble, and it's what's gotten you in trouble, quote-unquote, trouble, not actual trouble, like perceived trouble, where you won't do a little thing, and people are like, it's just a little thing.
Just do the little thing for everyone.
And you're like, no, I'm not consenting to something I know is false.
And then you've gotten it, I've gotten it, but it's just like, just five-year-old trans children, it's like, why do you have a thing?
I'm like, because consenting to that That's one step closer to just madness.
And that's such a keen observation that you had that she didn't get to pick her own drink.
Where he's almost like testing, like, will you...
Because women sometimes, you know, that's one of the things that makes the left so tyrannical.
Oddly, is it's a good...
It can be good if used in a certain way, but they're pleasers, which is good sometimes with little babies.
But like, they just want everyone to be happy.
But that's real bad when you're like with a predatory beta male in an apartment drinking alcohol.
Well, and so they're going out for dinner and he's giving her wine on an empty stomach.
When she's young, right?
So again, these are just little things.
It's not exactly the same as grooming, but sometimes grooming can be like a compressed accordion thing and happen over the course of one night.
And then, and again, these are the kind of details.
You put him in a story and people are like, no, no, no, that's too on the nose, man.
It's way too obvious. He walks her over to an oyster bar.
Oh, come on.
That's so cliche.
That's like straight out of like porn.
It's an oyster bar, which is a well-known pseudo-aphrodisiac, right?
So here, have some oysters.
I'll feed you. It's like the squid feeding the oyster to the whitefish.
So... Yeah, if he was, like, non-sexual, it would almost be adorable in a way.
Like, it would almost be that dorky guy in the movie that's, like, doesn't know what to do.
But the fact that he has, like, an erectable penis makes it really terrible.
You know what I mean? Well, this is dating along the lines of Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.
You know, like, he takes some woman to the porn theater.
Okay, it's not quite that bad, but...
It is, you know, here's some wine on an empty stomach.
Here's what you're going to wear. I'm going to tell you what to drink.
Now we're going to an oyster bar and people don't see like, it's like, okay, we'll go to like seafood.
I don't know. I'm the exact opposite.
I'm like, you're not doing shots.
Like I swear, I swear my whole life, like even in crowds, I'm like, I'll give, I'll give your, I'll give your guy a drink.
You don't get a drink. And it's like, I can drink like a guy.
It's like, no, you're 120 pounds.
You're going to start crying for no reason.
You're not having shots.
Yeah. You know? So then they chat, and she did most of the talking, right?
So, I mean, make of that what you will.
But then she says she sensed Ansari was eager for them to leave.
When the waiter came over, he quickly asked for the check, and he said, like, let's get off this boat, because it was obviously a boat, right?
There was still wine in her glass and more left in the bottle he ordered.
He ordered. He ordered the bottle.
The abruptness surprised her.
And she says, like, he got the check.
And then it was like, bada boom, bada bing, we're out of there.
Okay, so you understand you are on a conveyor belt to penis.
You know, there's a conveyor belt like the ones at the airport.
And at the end of the terminal...
I assume there's a little Cessna.
No, at the end of the terminal, like, you're on a conveyor belt of penis, and I don't know why women don't, okay, you know, here's some wine, you know, and tell you what to wear, and we're going to get you some oysters, and we're going to get you some more wine, and then we're out of here, we're going back to my place.
It's like, this is a conveyor belt, and you can step on it, and you can step off it, but I don't know why people don't know where this goes.
Yeah, conveyor belt to penis is a really funny phrase.
It's still not as good as autism in the grass, which was a comedy genius.
Oh, thanks, man. No, but conveyor belt to penis is true.
And I just think that we need more of a community in this world.
This is what I love about your message, because my mom was kind of like it.
It's like, everything big and awesome happens, it starts at home when you're young.
You know, like, you can't change all these big political things, but you can breastfeed your kid, not hit your kid, and explain to them what a conveyor belt a penis might look like.
You know what I mean? So they go two blocks back to his apartment building.
And this is a big...
I mean, I don't know where Taylor Swift lives, but now I do, other than in the mind of Nazis.
So Taylor Swift lives in this building, and you just know.
He's like, oh, yes, I... I live in this building.
Taylor Swift lives in this building.
You know this is just sadist stuff, right?
So you've had some aphrodisiacs.
You've had quite a bit of wine.
The guy hasn't talked much.
And now you're going back to his place.
Now, you don't go back to a guy's place on the first date.
I mean, come on. That's like a woman saying, I want to have you over to cook you a meal, and you don't come with your condoms.
I mean, come on. You don't go back to a guy's place you just met who's older, who's richer, who's powerful, who's ordering you around.
Like, you just don't do it.
Because you want to find out if the guy's interested in you as a person.
Now, one of the ways in which you know the guy's interested in you as a person, he asks you a few questions.
He doesn't just sit there while you babble on thinking, okay, how long?
Get some more wine in.
Let's get out of here. Don't do it.
And the only discussion is what should I wear, not what the hell is my strategy to have a fun evening that the guy might actually be interested in me as a person.
And it's also just really creepy to order a girl to wear something.
I mean, call me weird, but I just think that that's weird.
Like, the first time you meet a girl, it'll be like, this is what you have to wear.
And when you come, don't look at me in the eye.
And the oysters slurp them up and drink all the booze, and I will not say a damn word.
It's like conveyor belt to penis.
Well, it's fine if it's an otter suit.
Other than that, you're toast.
So, I mean, I'm sort of laughing in a sense, but there is, I mean, just be genuine, because this is the part I find kind of incomprehensible with the whole thing.
But, okay. So they walk back in, according to the article.
She complimented his marble countertops.
And this apparently is an invitation.
Now, I go to people's houses.
I say, that's a nice Ottoman.
They don't say, let's fuck on it then.
Like, that just doesn't happen. Like, that is lame conversation to begin with.
These are two people not connecting.
Like, if you're going into some place...
And the only thing you, like, I come to your house, and I'm like, that's really nice crown molding.
That means we're not connecting at all.
We have no connection.
If you compliment my crown molding, my wiener's coming out of my pants.
That's right. I mean, that to me is just, that's a green light if I've ever heard one.
I mean, you got great marble.
I just unzip. You got great marble?
I got great wood. Yeah, it's, I mean, all of this is just, it's pathetic and sad.
OK, so then he, so she says, that's a nice marble countertop.
And he says, how about you hop up and take a seat?
And then he starts kissing her.
And in a second, his hand was on my breast.
Ah, the old bag of sand.
And that is kind of a squid move there.
Because if you're going to kiss...
Going straight for the boob?
I don't know. That just seems like a bridge too far.
Maybe I'm a bit old school and all that kind of stuff.
But I don't know, have a couple of dates where you kiss and all that.
But this, like, vroom, straight to the boob.
I mean, that is just like, man.
I mean, this is a guy, when he had Betamax, he just fast-forwarded everything.
Well, that's like porn.
Well, I don't want to know the story.
Let's just get to the sex.
Yeah, I want to see what they're in the doctor's office to begin with for.
No, it's a great time to be married, man.
I've never been on Tinder or any of that stuff, and I think it's warped all of culture, where it's like now it's just as quickly to the penis conveyor melt as you can possibly get, and I'm so thankful I missed it.
My advice to young people is get married.
There's no he said, she said if it's the same person the rest of your life.
I do believe that a wedding vow is considered consent in many cases.
So then he was undressing her and then he undressed himself.
Now this reminds me of something, this is way back, Erika Zhang wrote a book called The Fear of Flying about the zipless fuck, you know, where you're having sex with someone, but nothing gets caught, the belt doesn't get caught, there's no zipper that gets caught, nothing, you don't trip over your pants, it's just like everything, boom, tear away pants, you know, Tom Jones style or whatever.
And so he's undressing her and undressing himself.
She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated, right?
And this discomfort is natural.
And it's funny, you know, because I'm like, half and half, it tears my brain in two, to be perfectly honest with you.
Because it's like, okay, women, full agency, full equality under the law.
But you and I know, when it comes to assertiveness, when it comes to talking about what you want, when it comes to standing up against what somebody else wants, men as a whole are better at it than women.
I mean, women have wonderful strengths, but when it comes to assertiveness, men have the edge.
And so we can say, well, she should have said something, and it's like...
But in an idea, okay, but we know how the world actually is.
Women are a little bit more conformist, a little bit statistically.
They score higher on neuroticism.
They want to get along. They want to not cause too much trouble and all of that.
And so this feeling of discomfort, and some people on the web say, well, she should have just said something.
It's like, yeah, I know that.
I know that, of course. But if you spend a lot of time around women, you know that they're very nice in a lot of ways.
Isn't it so funny how it's almost come full circle where when you say something...
That almost sounds sexist, but it is real, and now it's almost like we're the only people protecting women, where it's like, yeah, but she's a woman.
And on the surface, people are like, how dare you?
But when they think about it, they're like, yeah, it's our job to know that female nature kind of just goes with the flow, and they're They should be protected.
Like, they're women.
Well, or if you don't want to do all of this explicit protection, at least you can prepare women and say, as they used to say in the 50s, and in the 50s in particular, they'd say, well, you know, men are often after only one thing, and you slap them on the face if they go too far.
And you train women about that, and you get them ready for that, and you prepare them for the predator nature of some men.
But this woman was completely unprepared for any of this, as far as I can tell.
Her friends were like, you know, he's a rich, powerful guy.
You're a lot younger than he is.
You're very good-looking.
He's telling you what to wear.
You be careful. Don't go back.
Don't go back to his... Like, there's no sense of danger here.
It's just like me, wandering through...
Times Square or wandering through Central Park.
I leave my wallet and my cell phone on the bench and wander off and I'll come back in about an hour.
I'm sure it'll be there. And he's like, well, the person who took your wallet and your cell phone, they're certainly in the wrong, but you did kind of leave your wallet, your cell phone in Central Park.
Of course. Yeah. And predatory men can find these people too.
Yeah. Like you can pick up on the person in the party that would be the type that doesn't have People to protect them.
Sad, man. Sad.
Yeah. So then, he told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss.
This is a road of red flags.
This is like Soviet Russia, 1955, just red flag avenue.
More red flags than a communist parade.
Oh, nice. Oh, that is a joke.
Shit, I thought I just came up with that.
So, this question of...
You know, minutes of the first kiss, he's going to grab a condom.
I mean, this is the kind of guy who, like, tries to cook a flank steak with a hand grenade.
It's like there's just no gradation here.
That's just, like, fucking spatter on the wall and just eat whatever you find.
Eat whatever hits you in the head.
And that's his big cook.
So she voiced her hesitation explicitly.
I said something like, whoa, let's relax for a sec.
Let's chill. Okay, so this is not explicit.
As in, I will taser your nuts if you dangle them in front of my face one more time.
But, you know, whoa, let's relax for a sec.
So that's indication of stress.
Let's chill, which means cool.
Chill means, you know, being heated is sexually aroused and let's chill, so let's put ice on those nads, right?
Right. Now, for you and I and people with a decent amount of empathy, that is, OK, so too fast.
Also, the fact that you're grabbing boobs and undressing a woman within 30 seconds, apparently, of her getting into your condo where I'm sure there's a button under the marble countertop that locks the front door.
No, there isn't. I'm just kidding. So that is because there's a lot in human communication that's a little bit below the surface.
And people say, well, she didn't explicitly say X, Y, and Z. It's like, yes, but if she's getting tense and she's like, whoa.
That's a sign. You have human empathy, though.
A lot of people assume that other people know that.
It's almost like what you were talking about once, that dumb people, when they hear a smart person, they just get angry and they don't conceive of smarter.
It's kind of like that with empathy, when you're like, well, can't you see in microexpressions and just innuendo that you shouldn't?
I'll get shivers in my spine from not even words that someone's doing something and I know something's wrong.
Tons of people don't have that.
They're callous to shit.
And it's like, I don't think they have any ability of understanding that a woman isn't a commodity.
They're literally a human being with feelings.
In his mind, it's literally like taking steel or like wheat.
It's just like it's very creepy.
Well, and I do think, and I don't know anything about this guy, of course, but it seems to me something along the lines of porn addiction, that this is just, this is way too much exposure.
Right, right, right.
This is pornography, right?
Like, why on earth would you have any backstory, right?
So then she's like, whoa, let's chill.
And then he resumes kissing her, according to her, and then briefly performs oral sex on her.
Again, little bit of an escalation there.
I mean, tongue in the vag within, you know, 30 seconds or a minute, that's...
And then she asked her to do the same thing to him.
She did, but not for long.
And she said, it was really quick.
Everything was pretty much touched and done within 10 minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.
I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I also just want to tell you too, this is really terrible sex.
Like, I hate talking about this with another guy, but this is like, this reminds me of the Gian Gomeschi thing in Canada, where it was just like, I don't know, half a hand job or something.
It's like, this is really, really terrible sex.
And this is the problem with the hookup culture.
You know, you're married, you get someone, they know what you like, you know what they like.
It's like, but this is like, this is awful.
Like what a huge amount of work and risk and danger and upset and anger and fear and hostility and tears for terrible, terrible stuff.
This is like being a drug addict and just being handed like a pile of baby powder and just, oh, it's horrible.
I don't know if you've seen my bit about that, about growing up with the porn that we had versus now, where it'd be one crumpled picture under leaves in the woods.
And it required such yearning and imagination.
Now, porn is just so...
It's just, like, I don't watch porn now because I thought it was bad for my brain, so now my new addiction is just Zillow, like, real estate.
Like, places that I'll never live, but there'll be, like, 30 windows open, and I'm just like, four bedroom.
What was that? Two bedroom. That's really nice, crown molding.
Totally, because I have that thing in me.
No, you've just been infected by a woman's nesting instinct, which is totally understandable.
You know, that makes sense, right?
Do you think that's what it is?
I just like having a lot of windows open and looking at stuff.
And I'm also into like, now I'm going to get a dog and I'm just obsessing about dogs.
And if people do that with porn, their wiener is going to be garbage.
The way they see women is going to be insane and their wife will definitely not be as full of color and taste.
Well, this is why it's so insane.
Like, you say, well, let's get all these people from the third world who grew up on white woman porn and then expect them to have normal relationships with white women.
Like, I mean, that's just not how things are going to work in reality.
So then, and this, I don't know.
I mean, I hate to mock another man's game, but I'm going to mock another man's game.
No, dude, the guy sucks.
Go for it. He's a dick.
And I'd like to know in your mind, Owen, what layer of hell this move comes from.
Okay. The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V shape.
And to me, like, I already don't want to read the rest of the sentence.
I'll be quite honest with you.
You know, this is like in Game of Thrones when someone pulls out a sword.
It's like, I'm just going to fast forward for a bit because I know that something's going to squirt on my screen.
So, two fingers in a V shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat...
To wet his fingers.
And isn't that like if your toddler needs to throw up?
Isn't that like, I think that's, or if you're drunk and you, anyway.
Because the moment he'd stick his fingers in my throat, he'd go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.
Grace called the move, the claw.
And I don't know where that would ever come from.
That was in like no Bazooka Joe comic that I ever read as a kid.
Like I have no idea where that would come from.
I mean, it's really disturbing.
I don't know what's up with that.
It's not even sexual.
It goes back to that power thing.
It's almost like putting your fingers down a girl's throat that you just met.
It's like, I wouldn't do that if someone wanted me to.
Yeah, maybe if you had just pulled off a hand-shaped alien that had tried to leg an egg, maybe you could go in there with something.
That would be a real extremity, though.
I can't think of many other situations where that might happen.
Even if a long-term girlfriend or wife is like, hey, baby, do the V in my throat again, I'd be like, yeah, baby, I'm not really feeling that.
I mean, I will if you want me to, but the V in the throat thing is kind of weird.
Okay, but I'm wearing a fox for a glove.
That's the only way I'm doing that in any way, shape, or form.
Oh, man. We're going to hell.
All right. And also, I just want to tell you, if your move is nicknamed the claw, guaranteed it is a bad move because there's nothing sexual about a claw in any way.
Or if it is, run from whoever that's sexual to.
That's all. It's the inverse of sexy is the word claw.
That's right. Right.
It's like podiatrist.
There's just nothing. All right.
There's nothing. So Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times during the night from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward.
She said, he probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times.
He really kept doing it after I moved it away.
So this is sort of like, I don't know, grabbing someone's hand and putting it in a fire.
Like, if they're pulling the hand back, they don't like the fire.
They do not want to find whatever microorganism is currently seated in the V. It's just, I mean, that's kind of, I mean, again, oh, she should have said no.
It's like, but she was kind of signaling that.
And she's a woman, so she wants to be nice.
And you're a rich guy, so she wants...
I mean, the status.
The status of this guy. She becomes this guy's girlfriend.
She's her fiancé and wife.
I mean, he's a millionaire. He's rich.
He's famous. He's, you know, and all that.
I mean, that's high-status stuff.
And that gives him power based upon her youthful hypergamy and lack of knowledge, lack of instruction about the nature of the world.
And that's horrible. And here's another thing.
It's his public persona.
That's why I find all this extra disturbing.
Take this entire story, make it about Mike Tyson, and everyone's like, man, Mike's crazy, dude.
Claw? That guy's been punched way too much.
That guy's crazy. Mike Tyson's like an animal.
That's a much different persona than a guy whose entire career is saying, I'm the good guy.
All those guys are the bad guys.
It's like, hey, listen to his stand-up.
It's insane. He's like, men will send a woman a picture of their dick.
What? That's crazy!
It's like he's describing himself and saying it's awful and that he's not that.
Right. And he's this little, well-dressed, well-groomed guy who hangs out with powerful women and just appears to be like the least predatory guy.
But dudes like us know that that is the predatory.
I mean, that's the wolf in the sheep's clothing.
But women don't know that.
They literally think, I will go back to his place, and it's going to be Randy from that movie, and they're just going to talk and eat popcorn, you know?
So then this is a paragraph I also found interesting.
But the main thing was that he wouldn't let her move away from him.
She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play.
So we've got the claw, not sexual, and now we have the football play, also not specifically associated with anything particularly attractive.
She said, it was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again.
It was really repetitive.
It felt like a fucking game.
And, I don't know, a guy here...
I'm sorry, I don't mean to do this to your webcam.
He's just following around. It's like, this is...
I mean, this is not...
I don't even know.
That's horrible. And she's stuck, right?
Because she's probably a nice girl, untutored, you know, and is kind of in hypergamy land.
So she really, really wants to be liked for who she is.
But then she, to some degree, may have played the V card and being attractive.
And so... And this is the big problem.
And this is an old... And then he played the V card.
It was called the claw. Yeah.
And this is the big problem because women, of course, young women, want to be liked for who they are, like we all do, right?
But if you're a young woman, it's like you're impossibly rich, you're impossibly wealthy, and then you're like, well, I got lots of friends, but are they there for you or are they there for your money?
You know, it's like, let's go skiing in the Alps.
I'll pay for everyone. Hey, look, I got lots of friends who want to come skiing in the Alps with me.
It's like, yeah, but if you won't pay, like it's really tough to know that.
And when you're young and hot as a woman, you come with this massive wealth, so to speak.
And like everyone, they wanna be liked for who they are.
And that's really tough to put to the test.
It's really tough to put to the test.
And if women dress down, then they'll know if a guy likes them for who they are.
But if they dress down, they may not get the attention that they want And it is a very tough conundrum, which used to be solved by patriarchy and shotguns and weddings and whatever, right?
Arranged marriages in the third world, who knows?
But it is a very, very tough thing.
Do I dress down so that I know if the guy likes me for just who I am?
Or do I dress up, really get his attention, but then he's mostly into it for the sex?
That is really, really tough.
Yeah, it's a burden. It's almost like very, very famous men.
I've been out with very famous men, and everywhere they go, every single person is like...
I'm like, this is like living in schizophrenia.
It's almost like...
I don't think most people realize what that would feel like.
If I'm with Adam Sandler or something, every single person is like...
That's his existence.
Those people get to say, I got to see Adam Sandler.
His entire world is every human spiraling all day long.
There's a burden to that. It's the same with women.
It's like every guy wants to be inside of you everywhere you go.
I was writing a bit about that, about having a gay friend and going to a gay bar with him, and I finally understood why women are just riddled with anxiety.
Every time you make eye contact with someone, you're like, oh, that guy wants to put something inside of me.
And you're just like, this is hellish.
And so I think there's a real burden to that.
I mean, I wouldn't know what it would be like to be a super hot chick.
I feel like that would be kind of miserable in a lot of ways.
Well, it's called, you know, it's called the resting bitch face, right?
Which is where you have to be cold and nasty looking and ready to just rip a man's balls out through his nasal cavity.
Just because otherwise men are just like, hey, they're just coming on you all day and you don't want to be spending your whole day shooting guys down.
So you just get this mean look on your face, which of course means that the only guys who are going to make a move on you are people who can't read social cues.
That's the big problem. Whoa, that's insightful.
Whoa. No, guys who feel no fear.
Because you and I, well, I don't know. I speak for you.
But for me, I remember going to ask the most beautiful girl in high school out, because why not just aim for the top, right?
Yeah. And I was real nervous going up to it.
And I psyched myself.
And I was all ready and all that.
Because I was nervous about it.
But if you are really that hot, yeah.
It's the guys who feel no fear.
And we all have that thought of the guy.
I'm the guy who feels no fear.
It's like, yes. And you will be a terrible father and husband because you have no human emotions.
I am a robot who feels no fear.
I can walk up to this attractive woman.
I don't care about the resting bitch face.
I'm going to have her. And she's like, wow, this guy's really confident.
Nope, psycho. It's not confidence.
It's a complete lack of human empathy.
Yeah, same with mysterious guys.
A lot of them were just idiots.
Like when girls would be like, he's so mysterious, I never know what he's thinking.
He just like stares. I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure he has an IQ of 70.
Like he... It's so funny how you're right.
It's almost like the sociopath was the real confident guy and then the idiot was mysterious.
Like, I was riddled with anxiety with women.
I still am with my wife sometimes.
And I have no fear with stages and tons of fear with my whole life with women.
One time a woman asked me to go to a dance.
It's so embarrassing. Not really.
It's funny now. But she was like, do you want to go to the dance?
I go, oh, you want to go with Mark?
And I just repeated my friend.
Really? I was like, oh, dude.
In my mind, I'm like, okay, no one ever will ask me to dance.
So it's like, do you want to go dance?
I'm like, oh, you want to go with Mark? You want me to ask Mark if you want to go to dance?
And she was like, what? And I'm like...
And it was just – I was frozen.
It was crazy. Wow, that's the kind of moves pulled by a eunuch at the Sultan's court.
So, can't be made.
I have no balls. I was a piano player, which wasn't seen as attractive until college.
And then there was a major – it was like Bitcoin, which just zip.
You know? It was like in high school, it was just – It was nerdy.
It was who could kick the ball farthest, or whose dad owned a collision shop, and then you go to college.
Did you really have that ugly duckling moment, like the duckling to the swan thing?
Because I'm quite curious about that.
Oh, yeah. Like, insane.
Insanely. It wasn't even close, because it was like...
I was fatter, because I'm really tall, so I didn't grow into that.
And I just...
You know, my parents are professors, and so they were like, I don't know.
It's just all the things that my town, I'm from a very, like, blue-collar town, so all my friends are just into just fighting and drinking and all that stuff.
And so I'd be like, oh, who wants to hear Bach?
And they're just like, that's gay.
You're a gay guy.
And I'm like, all right. And so then in college, that all just shifted.
But back then, it was like I had no game with women, none.
They all just wanted to be my friend, which was fine.
But, yeah, there was a major shift.
I had a similar thing.
And I'm wondering if you end up observational because you've lived both sides of it.
Because, yeah, I mean, when I was in, I guess my early teens, my mom dressed me.
And, you know, single moms, it's like, that's it for the gene pool.
If single moms get to dress their sons, like, that's it.
It's like two parents, one parent, no parent.
That's it, man. And she would, like, cut my hair sometimes with, like, literally pinking shears.
Like, you know the little up and down?
I looked like the little awning of an Italian bakery or something like that.
And I had these, like, we would go and buy clothes by the pound from Goodwill, and there's nothing good in there, right?
And I'd end up with these really thick corduroy's that would make the sound when I'd run, like...
And if you run too fast, you're afraid your legs are just going to burst into flames.
It was just like it was bad all around.
My mom made me velour pants, too.
All right, go on. Your mom went, what?
She made me velour pants that were skin tight, and they said hi on one pocket and bye on the other, and that's how I was supposed to make friends, is go hi, bye.
And a kid pissed on me.
How did your parents meet anyone with these social skills?
That's what I don't understand. I don't know.
I never had new clothes either.
I was also raised poor, so it was like goodwill until I was in college.
I remember my mom spending an entire morning before I went to school because I had just enough sense to be skeptical of this, but I remember my mom saying, no, no, no, all the cool boys are wearing jeans with no back pockets.
Funny story. Turns out to be the entire opposite of the truth.
I had a little Saturn stitched on my right butt cheek.
Anyway, let's not go back to all that trauma I'm going to end up.
So it makes you funny, though, because, yeah, you're on the other side for a long time.
Yeah, so then what happened was, so a guy, basically, like, a relative of mine was like, holy shit.
What is being done to you?
Like, I don't even know. You have, like, human repellent on you as a basic mating display.
And, like, I got a cool haircut, and he took me, and he was, you know, real kind, and he got me nice clothes, and, you know, I shaved properly and all this.
You know, grow up without a dad, you kind of have to figure out how to shave like you're an archaeologist, right?
Yeah. And if you want to shave your legs, you're fine.
Face, not so good. And I actually went into school the next day.
Like, I was really dressed cool. I had a nice haircut and all of that.
And people thought I was the new kid.
Like, I was wondering, why the hell nobody was talking to me?
It was that radical, the transformation.
And that's when you realize...
Just how shallow human beings really are.
And you can't fight it. Yeah. Because then it's like, I could go out with girls, no problem, and all that kind of stuff.
And it was like, oh, so I'm the same guy as yesterday, but I've got gel.
Right. And that's the reality of the world.
I mean, it's sad, but it's true.
And do you think that's one reason why dudes like us don't have that much...
Like, we're not that threatened by authority or public shame.
Like, I'm just not that affected.
Like, someone's like, no, you do this.
You say this. I'm like, or not.
Well, no, I think we're the bridge, right?
We're the bridge because I have a huge amount of empathy For the outcasts, the, quote, losers.
Because, you know, I came from that sort of background.
But at the same time, I don't have that loser rage at the alpha because I crossed over to that side as well.
So we are sort of the bridge, right?
Same here, man. Same, yeah.
Yeah, if we'd violin, a kid just smashed it one day.
It was like I was totally on that side because my dad's very effeminate.
So it's almost like I had a dad that was not teaching me how to do the gel and all that stuff.
He was teaching me how to sing like La Boheme.
So it's like, it's cool when you're older, but at the time, it's like, who wants to hear an aria?
They're like, all right, queer.
Right. And also because we've been on both sides of the hierarchy, we don't have the blindness to the hierarchy of people who just have that from the beginning.
But we also don't have the hostility towards the hierarchy of people who never made it up.
So we can travel all over.
We see the big picture and I can examine the hierarchy, neither being addicted to it nor resentful of it.
It just is what it is.
Totally. Yeah, exactly.
That's why we can drill deep, drill wide, make these connections.
This is why your comedy works so well, is you see it all, and you can be distant enough to find it funny, but knowledgeable enough to be really insightful about it.
Yeah, and it's like the ring in Tolkien.
It's like, they gave me the ring, and I'm like, no, not if I say there's trans kids.
It's like, you're just not that tempted.
Like, someone recently was like, oh, well, you're getting this big fan base.
You should do this and exponentially.
And I'm like... Dude, I'm so happy.
I wake up every morning and play piano and do comedy for people, and I just have a great, I don't know, I just don't have that exponential growth need for power.
Yeah, yeah. Well, the people who want to be that big, I mean, I do sometimes wonder, the people who want to be that big, if they look back and say, it's something that Sting said, like the singer for The Police, right?
He said, the happiest time was somewhere between the van and the private jet.
Right. And I've always sort of thought about that, you know, like, okay, the van, yeah, that's pretty rough, man.
You know, you don't want to be playing like the fourth guy in a Tuesday night lineup at a club somewhere in Mississauga, Canada.
That's pretty rough. But do you want to be the guy with, you know, 48 cars in the garage?
Like, I don't know. It's, it's, that's a different kind of thing.
You know, it's almost like there's scale.
And I think, like, I can tell with you, and I know myself also, it's like we want a lot of people to hear our message because we want the world to become a better place.
But it's not about getting Lamborghinis and stuff.
It's about, like, support so that we can do what we do honestly.
And we're not sponsored by, like, Pepsi, and we have to say something wrong.
You know what I mean? That's right.
All right. So, back to this...
Woman's night. So she says, throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.
Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling.
I know that my hands stopped moving at some points, she said.
I stopped moving my lips and turned cold.
And again, you know, let's just say all of this is true, right?
I mean, this is all we know, right?
It's a he said, she said. And he has issued a statement, which we'll get to, where he doesn't apologize, but he doesn't really deny anything that she's saying.
And again, this non-verbal cue stuff.
And it's kind of funny because on the one hand, women are taught that there's this patriarchal rape culture.
On the other hand, they end up in these kinds of situations.
And I can't quite square that circle, right?
I mean, if there is this big patriarchal nasty rape culture, then women should be, you know, if I'm told that the lions are loose in them all, I'm, you know, I'm going to be walking kind of warily.
You know, I'm going to be jumpy. I'm going to be like, you know, going from cover to cover.
And so it's like this is rape culture.
Which means that if there is all of this rape culture, then your discomfort and mumbling won't do a damn thing.
You have to, I don't know, hit him with a lamp or something.
I don't know what you'd need to do, kick him in the balls or something.
But there is all of this, well, this terrible rape culture, but I'm going to mumble and I'm sure that he'll pick up on that cue.
And I don't see how that's possible.
Well, I think they're also arming women with the wrong strategies.
It's like... They're making it seem like that every just straight white man and a frat who wants to own a business is a rapist, but all these socialists aren't, even though one mindset is based on consent and the other isn't.
And how is there no possible transference of one economic strategy is based on rape, And one is based on consent between adults.
How do they not think that there might be trends?
That is, yeah, yeah. You know, that's a light bulb for me.
Give me your money. Yeah, yeah. Wear this clothes.
Drink this drink. Like, what does that sound like?
You know, that old joke about the government, you know, ideas so good they have to be compulsory.
And it's like... Sex so good, it has to be compulsory.
It has to be. And that's interesting, yeah, because he's a Trump hater and, you know, I don't know, I assume he's on the left, I mean, just in general, statistically.
Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, like, I want to force people to pay for what I think is right.
I want to violate their wallet, violate their property rights, and I don't care about debt being passed along to children.
But I'm going to be really respectful of...
And it's just like, yeah, right.
I mean, the socialism is kind of a marker for their willingness to use coercion, if not worse, to get what they want.
And narcissism. Yeah, narcissism.
It's, I know what's best for you.
I know what'll make you look best.
I know what you should drink. And I know where...
That you should sit on the marble and I should do things to your body with my claw.
It's like, it's right out of a socialist economics textbook.
Well, here's the thing, too.
Wouldn't it be tragic if there was a particular form of martial arts that involved this maneuver, which he then tried to use, and then he thought...
Anyway, let's not go down that route.
That would be... No, that's hilarious.
No, like, he only gets off watching kung fu movies.
No! Right.
So you have to be a small Asian man thrown against the wall in order for him to climax.
That's it. You've got to be doing this with your hand.
That's right. All right.
So then the money shot of the article is Ansari wanted to have sex.
And it's like, well... Yes.
I mean, of course. He texted a 22-year-old girl he'd just met for a few minutes who gave him her number.
See, she participates too because she gives her number to a guy when she's on a date with another guy.
And I don't know if the other guy was just a date or a boyfriend.
So she's already signaling that she is not a lady of the very highest ethical standards right there.
And then she obeys him.
When he says, this is the dress code and no, to hell with you, I'm going to tell you what you're going to drink and here's the restaurant we're going to and she's got no opinions the whole evening.
And then she says, she remembers him asking again and again, where do you want me to fuck you?
Oh, there's my gift for the day.
All right. While she was still seated on the countertop.
Now... That is confusing as a whole, because I don't know whether he means where in the house or where on the body.
And that, obviously, is confusing.
She says she found the question tough to answer.
Well, sure, because she says she didn't want to fuck him at all.
Now, that actually isn't a question that's tough to answer.
And this, again, is part of this whole girl power, Wonder Woman, I am woman, hear me roar, I am, you know, like this new woman...
In Star Wars movie, it kicks butt and, you know, Charlize Theron plays all these kick-butt characters and women are getting all of this crazy superhero stuff while at the same time a disconcerting number of women don't know how to say, fuck off.
And there's this weird disparity between this massive ideal of these incredibly strong and tough women, these video game characters, these movie heroines.
They're just incredible. And they can take down giant robots with a stick.
And somehow, in this mad vanity of megalomaniacal power, people have forgot to teach women to tell men to fuck off.
There's this weird gap, like massive power, and yet weird powerlessness in the moment.
Yeah, it's like men with Tinder.
It's like they've been given access to all the women for sex all the time, and they don't know how to talk or have sex.
You know, they just don't know intimacy.
And if you don't know intimacy, what's the point?
It's almost a Faustian deal.
It's the same with women. It's like, look at all this empowerment and you now have no idea or any skill of using power in your own life.
Yeah. Enjoy. Like, sign with your blood.
Right. It's crazy.
So she says, I wasn't even thinking of that.
I didn't want to be engaged in that with him.
But he kept asking. So I said, next time.
And he goes, oh, you mean second date?
And I go, oh, yeah, sure. And he goes, well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?
And it's like, I don't remember. I've read a lot of Plato.
I don't remember any of this in the Socratic dialogues.
It's like, yes, I believe that is a good syllogism.
I believe I'll have to consent.
He then poured her a glass and handed it to her.
She excused herself to the bathroom soon after.
And this fencing, this cornering, this, again, this is no empathy.
And the question, I guess, a lot of people have.
I don't know what your thoughts are, no.
And the question a lot of people have is, why are you still there?
Like, why are you still there?
You know, like, you're enjoying looking at the lion or the tiger, and then you notice that the zoo door is open.
And you're like, oh, I got a couple more pictures.
Like, why are you still there?
This guy's, you know, doing half alien implantation CPR maneuvers with his V, and he's grabbing at you.
And it's like, that's the question.
How good is that marble countertop?
Like, I don't... Because he's a movie star.
And it's like, as much as people flipped out about Trump's original quote, it's like, yeah, you know, they just go docile.
They just are like, you are power.
I will be, I will not, I will just give up autonomy.
It's weird, dude. I've seen it out there.
It's like, women will just almost like smell power and just be like, I hate this, but okay.
I don't understand it.
I truly don't even know how to comment on it because it's so bizarre.
It's like when Trump said, you know, they'll let you grab the, you know, it's like, is he lying?
I don't, you know what I'm saying?
Well, I mean, if he'd said they'll let you lick their pussy, Well, this is what this woman actually did.
Right. She didn't want to, she says.
If they let you V-claw, would that have been more...
You know what I'm saying? Like, what he was saying, I always interpreted it a little differently.
I thought it was a weird verb grab.
But, like, what he's saying is kind of true.
It's like... These women just get...
I think it's if a woman has a value set where they want power above anything.
Like in her mind, she could be Aziz Ansari's girlfriend.
So that treat is so big.
Like if that was just a normal guy, even if he was an attractive guy that she was attracted to, but he was, you know, upper middle class, whatever.
I just don't know if she would have stayed.
I think that the treat of Aziz is so insane to her.
Like in her mind, she's like in magazines and all this stuff that she might sit through stuff that she thinks is pretty brutal.
Right, because she could be the arm candy that's shown whenever he goes to some big party.
He could be the entree to this whole glittering magical fantasy world that she's probably thumbed through magazines with pictures of the stars and she's like imagined herself in there.
And this is the glittering gateway to that wonderful world of red carpets and sequins and elegance and fame.
And yeah, okay, that's a...
And ladies, it's a lie.
It is a lie. It's all a lie.
There's no, there's nothing there.
It's a joke. Anyway.
What is the equivalent, though, for men?
Is it just like, here's my top, like, I just took my top off and I'm oiled.
Like, I mean, what, because what is that for men?
Is it just like whatever your type is and she's just right there?
I think it depends on the man. Yeah, I think it depends on the man.
Because it's like, I think that like a disciplined man with morality is kind of Just constructed a world where you just don't really get as minute.
It's similar to sugar and fat, I think.
It's like, I'm not that tempted by cheesecake, but if I ate a little cheesecake, I'd want a ton of cheesecake.
You know what I mean? It's like, I think you can kind of train yourself.
I think for men, it's just 0.7 hip to waist ratio.
It's about fertility. You know, it's like- Mirrored features, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
It's Ken, what's the highest survival rate for birth?
I think that's the draw.
And then with women, it's what will make my egg survive so that we'll have grandchildren?
You know, that's it. And it's like, and out of that comes all this manipulation and twisted power stuff.
So Grace says she spent about five minutes in the bathroom collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water.
Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay.
I said, she says, I said, I don't want to feel forced because then I'll hate you and I'd rather not hate you.
Hmm. Now, again, if you're on a date and the word hate you comes out, the clues are kind of no longer clues, in my opinion, right?
If a woman's breaking away from you to go to the bathroom and hiding in there and then says, I'd rather not hate you, again, the mystery, and I guess this is the glittering prize.
She just doesn't want to give up that glittering prize, right?
And also alcohol is a factor.
Hmm. You know, if she's really pounding booze, if he's really saying, like, drink another glass of wine, tiny person, for a second drink, like, I don't know how much that affects people.
I mean, alcohol doesn't affect me that much, because I'm a mythical giant.
But like, some people, it literally changes them completely, you know?
Well, and it's hard to, you know, as a friend of mine said many, many years ago, which really stuck with me, Owen, it's like, imagine going through life half your size, and everybody wants something from you.
And it's like, that's a pretty powerful thought.
So they go back to this wrestling kind of thing, right?
And then he's like, oh, let's just go over here on the couch.
And then he's on the couch, and she thought he might rub her back or play with her hair or something to calm her down.
And again, there's this lack of understanding about the male sex drive, about whether this guy has the capacity for empathy, what he's there for, and so on.
And so instead of playing with her hair, which like, what is she, a Barbie doll?
Instead of playing with her hair, she says Ansari instructed her to turn around.
He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him.
And I did. I think I just felt really pressured.
It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.
The most unexpected thing.
The most unexpected thing.
The guy's already been grabbing at your boob.
He's put his tongue in your vagina.
You've gone down on him already.
He's motioned you over to the couch.
He's, you know, like there's been no discussion fundamentally of sex or no sex.
Like, what are we doing here? And then it's like literally the most unexpected thing.
And I don't, I don't know.
I think our ancestors were right, man.
Just lock it in. Have a family.
This sounds so horrifying.
It's like, you know, just two human beings that don't know anything about each other and they're in this weird power struggle and one of them is Aziz Ansari.
It sounds horrific.
You know, I just think we have to better train women to spot actual predators, not the You know, it's like they could see a Sharia law rape gang and think that, you know, they just need a hug.
And then they'll see, like, a normal dude who's a farmer and be like, oh, that guy's a total bigot rapist.
It's like our propaganda is manipulated women into not understanding what the predator is.
Well, and also, you know, and I hate to say this.
I mean, and I would say this to myself at the age of 22.
Maybe you would as well, Owen.
But I hate to say this, but it's something like this.
You're not actually that interesting.
You're 22 years old.
What is your life experience? What is your wisdom level?
Have you read the classics?
Have you thought deeply on the world?
Have you understood your culture, your society?
Do you understand complexities in the world?
Have you got nuance and depth and thoughtfulness and so on?
You're 22. I mean, I remember being 22 like it was yesterday.
You're not actually that interesting.
If a guy is interested in you and you're a 22-year-old woman, it's almost for certain that it's about sexuality.
Now, that doesn't mean you can't get to know each other.
That doesn't mean he might be a wonderful gentleman.
He might find out you guys do have a lot in common.
But you're not that interesting at 22, especially if you're hot, it's going to overshadow.
And particularly if you dress to accentuate that.
You know, like you see, I've seen these women on these, they do interviews, right?
And there's a split screen interview, right?
There's the guy on the left and he's got like a shirt on, a little collar or whatever.
And then there's the woman on the right who's got the spaghetti strap and you can't even see the dress.
And it's like, okay, so you're playing that card.
You're playing, here's your flesh for fantasy.
Okay. And to me, that is a very great insecurity.
It is like being a rich guy and being afraid to ask people out if you're not paying the bill.
Finding out what your true value is, finding out what your true worth is.
It is entirely possible if you're a woman who's young and hot, you're not actually that interesting.
And if you accept that, you can work to become interesting, which we all have to do.
Or you can just imagine that you're fascinating and have guys pull at you.
And that, you know, squandering your greatest treasure, which for a woman is youth and fertility, on this mess?
Yuck! Like, what a terrible waste of great gifts.
And if you overuse the sexuality, if you're a young woman, your character atrophies.
And you see that a lot when a woman relies on youthful beauty too much.
And doesn't develop. And then they become, when they get older, they really don't have much of a character.
It's almost like a time warp where they're still 22.
They haven't read anything.
They don't have much to talk about.
The Wu girls, right?
The Wu girls. And yeah, of course.
And women in particular, too, if they keep getting their heart ripped out and they keep getting disappointed in this manner, they do actually lose the capacity to pair bond.
It is more so for women than for men.
And if you lose the capacity to pair bond, you are just a divorce statistic waiting to happen, and you become progressively less dateable as time goes along, and that's the squandering.
Yeah, just say no, because it's like a good guy will keep coming back.
That's why I tell guys to not watch a ton of porn, because it kind of makes it so that they don't work at anything.
They could just satisfy their needs with just cyber stuff, but if you actually...
Like a girl, and she's like, no, I don't want to go out.
It's like, well, go out with me.
Don't pressure her to have sex with you.
Like, ask her to go out with you and talk to her.
And then, like, over months, you can develop, like, a real connection.
And then out of that can come something really beautiful.
Because, yeah, if you have sex prior to getting to know each other, both men and women, the bonding hormones are released.
And then you're kind of tied in, unless you're completely sociopathic and you just can pass by like two ships in the night.
But your bonding hormones, they're going to kick in and you're going to kind of get tied together.
It's kind of a shotgun marriage of penis and vagina.
It's a shotgun marriage of endorphins and bonding hormones.
You kind of get bound in, but you don't really know each other.
It's an incredibly risky thing to do.
You know, everyone sort of had this idea, you know, you pass by some homeless person, you're like, I should just invite this person to my house.
You know, it's cold. You know, I can put them somewhere.
But then you think, ah, you know, don't really know anything about this person.
Maybe I'll just go buy them some food or whatever, right?
And it's the same thing, but you're inviting people into your heart.
You don't know them that well, but your heart doesn't know that.
Because our hearts are like, okay, now that we're having sex, we must be pair-bonded.
Because throughout most of European history, That's the way it worked.
If you're having sex with someone, you're married.
And that's how our hearts and our minds work.
And if you just go around having sex with none of that commitment, it just tears and tears and tears and then in two.
Yeah, and men emotionally pair bond really hard.
It's like, sexually, we don't pair bond as hard as women do, but emotionally, I think we almost do more.
Like, I think guys get rocked during, like if a man's in love with a woman and they break up, the guy is, myself included, has been rocked.
Like a woman could have sex once with a guy and get pretty hurt by that.
And that doesn't happen as much to men, but if there's like emotional connection, men get in.
And so I recommend you don't do that too many times in your life and you find someone special and you just go in hard and you have kids.
Right. And these kinds of things, and I'll put a link to his statement about it below.
Oh yeah, what did he say?
Oh, okay. So what he says, so he released a statement confirming the basic details of Grace's account and indicating that he believed everything that happened was completely consensual.
So, after she texted him after the date, informed him that it was not, he says he took her words to heart and, quote, responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said.
He ended his statement by saying that he continues, quote, to support the movement that is happening in our culture, end quote, and that it is, quote, necessary and long overdue.
So, what he said was, in September of last year, I met a woman at a party.
We exchanged numbers. We texted back and forth and eventually went on a date.
We went out to dinner and afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity which by all indications was completely consensual.
The next day I got a text from her saying that although it may have seemed okay upon further reflection she felt uncomfortable.
It was true that everything did seem okay to me so when I heard that it was not the case for her I was surprised and concerned.
I took her words to heart and responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said.
I continue to support the movement that is happening and I call sure it is necessary and long overdue.
No apology, no acknowledgement of fault or whatever, which, of course, you know, he doesn't do that, I assume, without talking to 1,200 lawyers in a room.
So that's...
Well, James Franco's was the same.
And I can't comment on his story at all.
I don't know the guy. I don't know anything about that.
But he said... I support the movement.
The movement's long overdue, but I thought everything I did was right.
It's the same thing. It's just this weird contradiction.
I just can't explain it.
These people are all repeating the same thing.
That'd be funny if someone's like, so the claw was consensual?
How funny would it be if he was just honest and he goes, listen, guys, I'm going to be honest.
I'm a full-blown sociopath.
I have no idea what people feel.
I'm just trying to get my claw on, man.
And I'm not here to rape anybody, but I do not know what...
Someone has to literally look at me and say, Aziz, you stopped the claw.
And I will. I don't want to go to jail.
But I'm a sociopath, man.
I can't pick up on nuance.
I was never held as a child.
I view you all as bipedal flesh robots for me to drop my load into and move on.
I view you as Dresden and I'm the RAF. That's just the way it rolls for me.
And if you don't want that, you have to tell me, usually with a frozen fish haddock to the head.
That's the way I learn. It's like he only sees power.
It's almost like infrared, like the Predator.
He's like, power, power, power, power.
Ah, power. Because Amy Poehler, who's a sweet human being, thinks Aziz is really nice.
And I thought about that. I'm like, oh, because she's above him.
Everyone below him hates him.
Right, right. Because Amy Poehler is a great person.
And it's like, she's like, oh, Aziz is a sweetheart.
I'm like, what?
And I'm like, oh yeah, you're a general.
That's how he acts around the generals.
He acts a lot different around the privates.
I've never seen him not salute me, so he must really like military discipline.
And this is the fundamental problem as well that comes to all of this.
And this human society has wrestled with this crap for thousands of years.
And boy, had we evolved a whole set of standards to deal with this.
And then the 60s came along and boom!
Nuclear winter for all of these carefully developed ecosystem of standards.
And the basic problem is, of course, If there's no evidence of physical violence, it's he said, she said, and it cancels each other out.
And legally, you can't, again, socially, whatever, you know, whatever, but the law cannot handle he said, she said.
There needs to be physical evidence, you know, if she's been beaten up, you've got a broken jaw, she's a vagina's torn, God, throw the guy in jail, no question, right, after due process.
But this, you know, I felt uncomfortable.
Well, I thought it was... Like, nobody can figure out what happened.
And this reality that if stuff's happening out of sight and there's no physical evidence, nobody can know what the hell happened.
Human society has been wrestling with this problem for approximately 150 fucking thousand years.
And we had a whole bunch of really great stuff set up.
Was it perfect? No.
Was it better than what we have?
No. Of course it was.
But everything just over the last, you know, 50 years, we've just basically ripped all of that shit apart and said, you know, let's just let everyone do whatever the hell they want.
And it doesn't really work very well.
There's no policing from parents.
There's no instruction of people about the complexities and difficulties and dangers of all of this kind of stuff.
People aren't taught to read cues.
People aren't taught how to say no.
I mean, people are just they put themselves repeatedly in compromising positions and they're not taught how to talk the way out of them.
It's a big giant mess, and man, some of what the Christians have said, you know, which I, you know, can we start talking about a return to sexual morality at any point?
Is that at all going to be on the table or on the marble countertop, so to speak?
Well, Ben Shapiro always brings that up.
I really like that guy.
He's like, yeah, I've been saying it for a long time.
Get married. Come on.
A little more nose. A little more nasal.
It's so true. He's like, yeah, I'm blatantly a feminist.
I'm the only feminist because I believe in marriage and I'm against abortion and you should just get married and have kids.
And it blew my mind. I'm like, that is the feminist now.
You know, like the male feminists that we were given, that it's like, it's literally just guys trying to get with chicks with bad dads.
They're just horrible human beings.
And that's one reason why a toxic culture wants to remove fathers from the equation, because it means that the women are easy prey.
Yeah, and it's up to us.
That's why I like what you do, and I try to do it too.
It's about making our own culture and pushing our culture, because no one's here to help us.
When I was in LA, a good friend of mine was viciously raped.
Not one of these Me Too things, like kidnapped, gang raped.
They weren't American.
Goes to the cops, gets brave as hell, just brave.
Nothing happens to the guys.
The cops don't do shit. They don't even process the rape kit.
It's just, get out of LA. There's no protection there.
We really do have to protect ourselves, our own families, our own tribes, our own cultures, the people that we love.
Because the infrastructure that they project isn't really going to help us when stuff goes down.
I'm telling you, I've seen it. This girl was battered, like, bad.
It wasn't. So, I'm on his marble.
It was literally vicious.
And nothing happened. She knew right where the guys were, pointed the house, nothing.
She's doing great now.
She got married to her boyfriend, and she got past it.
I got none but respect for that girl.
That's why I got on board with a lot of your stuff about the government, because that event really shook my foundation.
I always think, oh, the cops are going to come with their CSI team, and they're going to get the bad guys.
They come with a pencil, and then they don't come back.
And sometimes it's politically not in their best interest to go after certain groups of people that may be on an agenda to hoard into America.
Well, it's what's going on in England with these upwards of a million little white girls who've been raped by these grooming gangs.
And you can't get justice even.
It's been going on for decades.
All right. Well, listen, I really appreciate us being able to have the time to chat about this.
I'm glad we did it as a duo because I would have been a mournful, tragic, sad clown face doing this on my own.
So this was a hell of a lot more fun.
That was a blast. I had a blast, man.
I really do want to remind everyone, go catch what Owen does.
The website, hugepianist.com.
Unlike Trump, he has the hands of the gods.
And youtube.com forward slash Owen Benjamin Comedy.
Twitter.com forward slash Owen Benjamin.
I guess we'll be breaking bread next week in New York.
And one more time, January 25th to 27th in Burlington, Vermont, February 24th, Saranac Lake, New York, March 8th to 11th, Houston, Texas.
