Aug. 11, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
03:34:11
3785 The Black Man's Burden - Call In Show - August 9th, 2017
Question 1: [1:45] – “While I consider myself to be a moral person that practices good ethics, doesn't harm anyone, makes a decent living, doesn't depend on any taxpayer welfare, somehow I don't think that I've really achieved all too much, nor do I feel like my personal worth is all too high. I'm not sure how much I base my personal worth on other people's judgments; after all, virtually nobody else I know bases his/her personal worth on my judgments, and rightfully so. In determining my personal worth, how much of it should be based on the opinions of others?”Question 2: [36:07] – “I am having a crisis of what to do about my relationship with the black community. While my family are certainly not full of Michael Browns and Trayvon Martins, they are excruciatingly liberal and completely intolerant of any other viewpoints. The black community that rejected me long ago for ‘speaking and acting white’ now rebukes me for leaving the black community once I started making good money and reminds me that it is the responsibility of people like me to fix everything. It is time (way past time) for me to start creating children and what am I giving them? What society am I giving my black children? What burdens am I forcing upon them?”Question 3: [1:30:06] – “On an previous call addressing a question about cultural homogeneity, you made the remark: ‘the only people who love diversity tend to be the young, who've got lots of time on their hands, and love (frankly) banging people from exotic cultures.’ Perhaps this is not your intention, but the remark comes across as an insult to some of my friends who are in inter-ethnic relationships because it suggests: (1) people who love diversity do so because of a fetish (‘banging people from exotic cultures’), and (2) that people seeking diversity are not productive or busy members of society (they ‘have lots of time on their hands’). Can you explain the reasoning behind the original remark?”Question 4: [2:05:05] – “The human implicit memory mechanism relies on looking into the future. Since 99% of the human decision making process relies on implicit memories for survival, stereotyping is inevitable. Therefore, racism is inherent to human nature. Do you agree/disagree? What is the cause of Racism in humans? Not WHY we have racism, what specific mechanism that is the nature of humanity that causes all humans to have racism?”Question 5: [2:42:31] – “How do we seek relationships that can be enriching instead of ending up with people who rely too much on you when the relationship gets 'too comfortable'? Can a relationship that began and has continued with patterns of codependency be rescued or is the original mismatch too much of a barrier to overcome?”Your support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
And don't forget freedomandradio.com slash donate to help out the show.
So the first caller wanted to know, like he's trying to figure out what his personal worth is, doesn't have any big successes to point to, but how much of his personal worth should be based upon the opinions of others?
And asked me how I judge the value of Freedom Aid Radio, of the show that I do and how it's received and so on.
And I think that is a very interesting question and I think you'll be surprised at the answer.
The second caller, Bob.
We've heard from Bob before, and I don't even know how to preface this one.
I guess Bob put me at a loss for words.
You just need to listen to it. He's got some problems with his community, and I think that's all I'm going to tell you.
You should really listen to this great call.
The third caller...
Well, I said some things that offended his friends.
And we kind of went from there.
And I was pleased to hear it.
It's very interesting to hear.
And we talked about cultural homogeneity.
And the fourth caller wanted to know, well, what does it mean to be racist?
What is racism? And is it sort of a natural condition of humankind?
And what can we do about it if it is?
It's a great set of questions.
Fifth question. Caller.
Hmm. A couple from literally opposite ends of the world are living together.
They have a newborn, three months old, and they want to know how can we set right a relationship that started off in the wrong direction or started off at the wrong foundation.
I think when things went pretty deep pretty quickly, but I think it was a very powerful and worthwhile conversation.
I hope that you will check it out.
Alright, well up first today we have Krishna.
She wrote in and said, Oftentimes people might say, Oh, you don't have any kids or any successful relationships, nor have you done anything really awesome like creating a successful business, or getting an MBA, or a PhD.
I sort of agree.
I'm not sure how much I base my personal worth on other people's judgments.
After all, virtually nobody else I know bases his or her personal worth on my judgments, and rightfully so.
In determining my personal worth, how much of it should be based on the opinions of others?
That's from Krishna. Hi Krishna, how you doing?
Hey, good, Stefan. Well, thank you very much.
I appreciate that. I look forward to the conversation.
Do you feel like you could have or have the capacity to achieve more than you have achieved in your life?
Well, gosh, maybe so, but I guess, you know, I'm not really, you know, sure.
I guess how to do it or like, you know, what would be considered, you know, a good solid achievement or whatever, or what should.
And so that's, I guess, you know, maybe my problem is I try to, you know, judge it more too much, maybe on what other people think or whatever, but at the same time, you know, sometimes.
All right, this is, sorry, man, you got to cut to the chase when we're talking.
So do you feel like you have talents that you could have put to use or could put to use to make the world a better place?
Right, because when you're talking about ethics, you're only talking about yourself, right?
You say, I'm a moral person, practice good ethics, doesn't harm anyone, or make a decent living, don't depend on taxpayer welfare.
That's great for you, but is there any capacity that you might have to spread virtues to other people or challenge bad people in the world or, you know, put your wheel to the, your nose to the grindstone, as the saying has it, to try and make the world a better place?
I guess not, no.
I mean, I don't know, and at least if I do have it, I haven't really discovered it.
Okay, so virtue is just for you.
Virtue isn't something that you try and create or spread in the world.
Yeah, that's how I would put it.
I think that's exactly right.
I mean, I guess, you know, maybe sometimes I would consider some, like, attempts here and there, like, just sort of, you know, in social conversations or whatever, when they talk about, I guess...
How good the climate change agenda was, at least under President Obama, and how we talk about how global warming was a hoax, and I refer to your program, and I try to get people to listen in, but to the content of your program.
But at the same time, I guess it's like they don't really get the message.
But why do you think that morality is not an important thing to spread, or philosophy or rationality is not an important thing to spread?
Is it Do you feel like you would be imposing your views on others?
I'm just trying to sort of figure that out.
I guess the best way of putting it, Stefan, is that I guess I just don't know of a way of how to do it convincingly, and sometimes it comes across as fruitless, so it's kind of like a what's-the-point thing.
I'm sorry, it comes across as what?
Across as what's the point of even trying kind of thing.
No, you said it comes across as, and the word sounded like probalist, but I'm sure it wasn't.
Sorry, what is the point of trying if it, you know, is very likely to be fruitless?
Or I guess, yeah, I guess it makes it easy for me to like be frustrated or to like, you know, not maybe try harder or to not think of better ways to, you know, try to, I guess, spread virtue and, you know, spread sort of the libertarian enlightenment that, you know, your program has done so well in doing.
Okay, so is it that there are people around you who don't respect you enough to listen to important things that you're knowledgeable about?
Yeah, I think that would be a good way of describing it.
And I guess, you know...
And is that satisfying to you?
That the people around you, you have, I assume if you listen to this show or do other work on self-knowledge and philosophy, that you have a good amount of knowledge about philosophy and virtue and so on.
Do your friends, for want of a better word, do they not think that you know these things or do they not think that they're important?
Or both? I'd say probably more of the latter.
I mean, I get the sense that most of my, I guess, friends and acquaintances, you know, tend to be more interested in kind of things that we would consider, you know, to not be so important like fantasy football and the Kim Kardashian and the video games as opposed to, I don't know, the fact that our, you know, our economy is unstable.
So you care about philosophy and your friends either don't care about it or are hostile to it, right?
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
So what are you doing? What are you doing?
I mean, why are they your friends?
I mean, I guess that's the thing.
It's like, you know, they're not really my friends anymore.
And I guess, you know, I guess it's been almost mission impossible, if you will, for me to, you know, find the kinds of friends that would be interested in it or wouldn't be put off with it and, you know, things of that nature.
And what efforts are you putting into finding these friends?
I mean, I guess, you know, that's kind of a good question.
I got to admit that, you know, maybe I haven't been putting in too many efforts just because I... Don't say something's impossible if you're barely trying.
Or don't say something's really hard.
You know, it's really, really hard to climb those stairs.
Have you tried? No.
Well, then, you know, don't, I mean, I just, and the reason I'm saying this, Krishna, is because it matters what you say in this public, if you and I are talking privately, it's one thing, but it matters what you say in a public discourse.
So if you're going to say, well, I have these friends, they don't care about philosophy.
Well, they're not really my friends, but I can't find a new friend.
It's really, really hard to find new friends.
Well, have you tried? No. It's like, well, you're kind of conditioning people to not try to kind of, like, you know what I mean?
Like, personalities are contagious, right?
And it doesn't sound like you have a very sort of strong-willed or purposeful life.
I mean, you can tell me if I'm...
I mean, it seems that the essence of your question.
And if you have a sort of not strong-willed and purposeful life, you don't have a purposeful life, then you're going to try and spread that enemy or that feeling of innervation or that feeling of listlessness, right? To other people.
And one of the ways you're going to do that is you're going to say, I can't find anyone to talk to philosophy about, right?
Which justifies that you don't have a social circle that includes philosophy.
And what you're doing, though, is you're making other people think, oh, well, this guy's tried and he's failed, so it must be really, really hard, so maybe I won't try to talk about philosophy with my friends either.
You see how this spreads? Yeah, I know what you're saying.
I don't really feel offended by what you're trying to help.
I did join the Libertarian Party of San Diego and I guess it felt good in the sense that people were sort of on the same wavelength on the issues I care about with the economy and things like global warming and the vaccines or the like.
But I guess it just sort of like It feels like a very small group and that, you know, it doesn't seem like too many people really are into it and, you know, there's not, you know, too much action or activity that's been going on.
You know, I guess you're right.
You know, I guess maybe I haven't really tried, you know, too hard.
Do you feel that there should be more movement and activity in these things?
Yeah, but I mean, I guess you want someone else to deliver it to you.
Right. I mean, that's the thing.
It's like, you know, I wouldn't want to deliver it.
I just don't know really, I guess, how to do it.
And, you know, I'm pretty critical of myself.
I admit that, you know, that's the flaw I have.
I didn't think there was enough philosophy in the world.
I didn't think that people were talking about important issues enough in the world.
So what did I do? Right.
Right. Did I wait for someone to deliver these conversations to me?
Did I wait for the world to coalesce in the form of a bust of Socrates right there in front of me?
Did I wait for all of my friends to sort of come up with philosophy on their own and talk to me about it?
No, I mean you went out and did it and you took the initiative and I guess that's probably something I struggle with and I mean if it's cool for me to ask just a personal question when you first started this like you know did you know that there would be like you know As successful as it was today?
I mean, how did you...
Don't talk now. Okay.
No, I mean, I have been tortured by an excess of specific ability my whole adult life.
I mean, I have...
Knowing the capacity that I have throughout my whole life, it's kind of like a torture.
Knowing... Like, I remember...
I'm trying, I'm sorry, I'm just pausing.
I need to sort of get my time frame.
A number of times, I would be sitting at a cafe and having an animated chat with a friend of mine.
And people would like stop talking and listen.
And then people would be like, wow, you know, you really should do something with this verbal talent, with your capacity to create metaphors and communicate.
And I knew that.
I knew that. It was kind of like a torture.
And, you know, I mean, I tried a wide variety of things in the business world, in academics, in the arts world, and so on.
Wrote novels, wrote plays, wrote poems.
And I found ways to leverage my communication ability.
But the moment...
That the internet came along, I'm like, rah!
Boom! Out of the gate!
Rockets released! There shall be no return stages!
We are going to the moon, baby!
Because I finally had an opportunity to speak all of the language that had fascinated people just sitting around me in coffee shops in the past.
I can think of like half a dozen times where people are like, I could just listen to you all day.
Wow, the way you put things together really, really makes sense.
Wow, you're only 25.
So this sort of being tortured by a capacity...
Like, I'm revving the engine, revving the engine, and the wheels going round and round and round, but there's no way to get it onto the actual tarmac.
There's no way to get it on the actual road.
The moment the internet came along, kicked off the jacks, down came the wheels, and vroom!
Right? So, I had indications of success in the past, but it was such a localized way, right?
Such a localized thing. And...
I mean, it's funny, I remember...
I was dating a girl, I think about 25 years ago.
I was dating, maybe 24.
Anyway, I was dating a girl. And she had a party.
It was sort of a dinner party.
And there were a few people who were there from a television station.
And I wasn't like auditioning or anything.
I was just sort of being myself.
And I was sort of telling stories and engaging with people and like literally had people crying from laughter in terms of like regaling them with tales and telling stories and all that kind of stuff.
And I remember as they were leaving, one of the guys from the TV station turned to me and said, hey man, you should totally be on TV. That was like the most fun evening I've had in forever.
And I said, you know, you work at a TV station, right?
He's like, yeah, let me think about it, you know, kind of thing, right?
It's like, nothing ever came of it, of course, right?
And thank goodness it didn't, right?
Because then I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing now with the liberty that I have to do what I'm doing now.
So I didn't know for sure that it was going to work.
But I knew that I had to find some way to release this...
Ridiculous excess of verbal ability that had been sort of haunting me and taunting me my entire life and for which I had not been able to find a suitable place to Utilize it to to put the rubber on the road so to speak So I hope that helps but yes as soon as I had the option as soon as I had the choice as soon as I had the chance I'm in like Flynn, baby Yeah, okay.
No, I mean it does and I mean Just given that you've grown your program and your audience quite a bit from when you first began, how much do you judge the worth of your program and maybe even your own personal worth based on the size of your audience, the growth of it, and things of that nature?
Judge the worth of my program, you mean?
Yes. I can't judge.
Sorry, to be technical, I can't judge the worth of my program By anything other than philosophy, right?
Because I could be speaking the most powerful truths known to mankind ever to be uttered by mortal lips, this side of evolution.
But if people choose not to listen, like I'm a free will guide, if people choose not to listen, am I going to judge the worth of what I say by whether people listen to it or not?
Now, there's things that I can do.
I can be engaging, I can be funny, I can tell stories, I can, you know, come up with fun analogies, I can let my crazy Einsteinian verbal motor centers rip as much as possible.
But it's up to people to choose whether they listen, whether they want to donate, whether they want to share, and so on.
And so I remember, you know, back in the day, when I first started doing videos, I was a podcaster first, but before I started, just as I started doing videos, I remember on the message board, this is way back in the day, somebody was saying, oh no, I remember who was saying, doesn't matter who, but somebody, a friend of mine was saying, yeah, but that video only got 500 views, right?
Right. And I said, but would I, like I drive all night to give a speech to 500 people.
And now, you know, if I don't do 100K, it's a bit of a, A bit of a bummer.
So what I am focused on is my relationship to philosophy, my relationship to the truth, and I want to engage and entertain the audience, but I don't want to own the success of the program because that disenfranchises the listeners.
I don't want to say, well, I judge the success of this.
It either gives them too much power, like if they say yes or no to my show, then my show is good or bad, which is not, you know.
If you refuse to take a medicine that will save your life, it doesn't damn the medicine, it damns you, right?
And so if people refuse to listen to arguments that are sensible or they avoid or they cuck out or they cowered out or whatever, As I said recently, tolerance is just the coward's word for commitment.
You know, like if you're committed, you're just called intolerant by cowards.
And I understand it can be scary stuff.
So I don't want the listeners to judge the value of what it is that I'm doing.
Because I'm more of an expert in philosophy than the listeners, which is why they listen, right?
Which makes sense. So I don't want them to judge the value of what it is that I'm doing.
The value of what it is that I'm doing is...
In relationship to a variety of factors, you know, what's going on in the news, what's going on in the world, where this sorts the priority of what to talk about, and how much am I willing to be courageous and maybe even confrontational and focused and expressive in my communication of philosophical arguments.
But I can't judge the show, in a sense, by anything other than its relationship to the truth and to value.
I can say any number of things that are true.
I could sort of say, well, here's one childhood memory.
That's true. And here's another childhood.
But that would not be relevant to what's important in the world at the moment.
So a truth sorted by importance is sort of the daily goal and business plan.
I can obviously judge the importance.
I can judge and continue to commit to speaking the truth as strongly as I can.
And that is the only judgment that I can make over what it is that I'm doing.
I can't judge the value of the show any other way that I know of.
Yeah, no, I mean, I get it.
And kind of like, you know, I was watching your video you put out today about e-begging or whatever, and, you know, all the trolls that, you know, unfortunately, you know, put all kinds of non-arguments in the comments or whatever and kind of, you know, judge negatively and the lie.
I mean, it's like you said, you know, why should you listen to them or value their judgments if they themselves are, you know, they are, you know, not very educated or very informed or enlightened about philosophy and And I guess that's, you know, tying back to the original writing of my email for the call-in is that, you know, I guess whenever...
Sometimes I go when people kind of, you know, judge me negatively or say that, you know, again, I haven't done anything super great and I'm just like a sort of just an average guy or whatever.
At the same time, it's like, you know, a lot of those people tend not to be like anything super special or, you know, living up to their own standards of like stats or, you know, high personal worth or whatever.
And so, I guess, tying back to what you said, if I'm understanding correctly, those are like sort of the equivalent of the trolls in the comments section who say all sorts of non-arguments and, you know, I guess, you know, are kind of hypocritical in the sense that they don't, I guess, live up to their own standards that they tend to impose on me.
And I guess sometimes I feel guilty, you know, by doing that, because I guess we're kind of told you should listen to other people and, you know, be nice to other people and, you know, value, you know, the intake you get from other people, but at the same time...
Yeah, no, that's...
In a sense, Krishna, that is the worst kind of subsidy in the world.
You should respect other people.
You should listen to other people.
You should value what it is that they say.
Bullshit. I'm not saying you're saying that.
I know that this is out there in the world, that people say you should listen and people have things to say.
And it's like, no. Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. You need to be highly discriminatory in who you allow to have influence over you.
The default position is...
Everyone's lying. Everyone's full of crap.
Everyone's running an agenda.
And it's not that people are bad innately.
It's just this is sadly the way we're raised.
We've got government schools. We've got a bunch of false institutions.
We've got a terrible media.
I mean... Right now, there is, for the first time in human history, the capacity to push back against the media.
First time ever.
Look how much the media is twisting and turning and fighting and lying and attacking and misrepresenting and falsifying and slandering.
Like, look at how they're doing.
But this is the first time we can actually see it.
People are stuffed so full of bullshit, I can't believe that everyone's eyes aren't even just brown.
Right? So people are, in general...
Blind, heavily programmed, reactionary, intellectually vacuous attack and defend robots.
They have no functional free will because they have no self-knowledge.
They haven't taken the red pill.
They exist in the matrix of falsehoods and so on.
And they are programmed to run the agenda of the powers that be and attack anyone who steps out of line.
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I totally hear what you're saying.
So the idea that I would take people And say, oh, I've got to listen to people.
I've got to respect what they have to say.
Oh, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
It's sort of like this.
It's like if you're trained in reading ancient Aramaic and you come across a very important biblical manuscript, right?
Ancient Aramaic is the language Jesus spoke, right?
So you're the one trained in ancient Aramaic.
You're the world expert in ancient Aramaic.
And everyone's kind of crowding around.
People, you know, just from some village around or people who just came off a tourist bus.
They're all crowding around and they're saying, well, I think I see the word yeller.
I think I see a fish.
I think I see a man with a jackal's head.
I wonder what that means.
And someone's saying to you, well, you have to listen to everyone's perspective.
You have to listen to everyone's translation.
You have to listen to what everyone thinks the manuscript says, to which you say, I really don't, because they don't have a...
Clue what they're talking about!
And I'm trained in this.
I know what I'm doing. They're just in the way.
They're just making noise and distracting everyone, and they don't even know what they don't know.
Doesn't mean I hate them. Doesn't mean I hate them.
A log falls in front of my car while I'm driving along a mountain road.
I get out and I move the log.
I don't hate the log.
It's just in the way and kind of inert, right?
And so the idea that you would go out into the world...
As somebody who has wisdom and knowledge and self-knowledge and philosophical knowledge, just the basic...
I mean, once people read The Art of the Argument, they're divided like coke lines in a crackdown.
Now you know the argument.
Now you know reason and evidence.
There's no turning back.
This is a one-way ticket book that's coming out very shortly.
So the idea that I'm going to go out there and judge myself...
Let me tell you a story.
I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again.
Just so everyone understands where I'm coming from, this is not a complete argument, but this is sort of where it came from.
When I was a kid, as I've mentioned on the show a number of times, I was beaten up, attacked, had my head pounded against a metal door and all this kind of stuff, to the point of, like, I had to go limp or I could have died or been brain injured.
This happened, all of these physical attacks, you know, screaming, beating, thrashing, thudding, all of that kind of stuff, you know, plates being thrown, like the whole thing.
All of this happened right in the middle of a big apartment building.
And it was an apartment building with thin walls, you know, the usual thing.
You know, your neighbor three doors down sneezes and you say, bless you, and he says, thank you, right?
I mean, this is... I don't know if it's ducks.
I don't know if it's thin walls. I don't know if it's whatever, right?
Everyone knew. And this happened at a couple of different places in a couple of different countries.
So this was a pretty wide sample set.
You know, child being attacked, child being beaten up.
And of the hundreds and hundreds of people who heard all of this happening, and I'm not even counting, like, my extended family on both sides of my mother and father's side— For the hundreds of people who heard this happening, not one person ever made a phone call to the police or to social services and said, a child is being attacked with an earshot, you need to do something, you need to send someone by, you need to whatever, right?
This is the reality, right?
This is the reality of where things are.
And those are the people I grew up around.
And these were adults.
And listen, it's not just the people in the vicinity.
You know, I had dozens of friends.
They had parents. A lot of them knew what was going on or had heard about what was going on or could have asked, why are you so hungry?
You know, why don't you have any food?
Why are your clothes torn?
Yeah. You know, why don't you have any decent things to wear?
I walked through the entire world with this magic shield of no one's going to say anything.
No one's going to do it. And listen, I'm not saying people should have confronted the abuser.
I'm just saying that a phone call would have made set things in motion that might have helped.
Maybe it would have made things worse. I don't know.
But this is the reality of what I grew up with.
And of course, you know, you've heard in this call-in show, you've heard other people talk about difficult childhoods, abused childhoods, and so on.
And so the idea that, to me, having seen this occur...
In lots of different places, in three continents, two continents, and the idea that I'm going to grow up and I'm going to really respect the ethics of Of my society, I'm really going to respect the adults.
I'm really going to respect these boomers.
I'm really going to give one flying rat's ass of a fuck about what people as a whole think in terms of ethics and virtue.
And, you know, if they say to me, well, you got to care about X, Y, and Z. You got to care about the poor.
You got to care about the migrants.
You got to care about the sick.
Do you know how it lands when you've grown up in that kind of environment where everyone has relentlessly and consistently done the three-monkey trio of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil?
That I am told as an adult that I must sacrifice my culture, my future, my savings, the future perhaps of my child.
Of my civilization. I must sacrifice all of that because, you see, you've just got to care about people who are upset and people who are hurt and people who were down.
You've got to care about them.
To which I only say, fuck off.
Fuck right off.
Because hundreds and hundreds of people knew about my suffering as a kid and did sweet jack-fucking-all about it.
Yeah. And so the idea that I'm going to sit there, oh, well, I've got to judge.
What if people judge me badly?
It's like, these people don't have any capacity to look into the mirror.
Do you know? I mean, I've been a public figure now for 10 years.
The number of people who've ever contacted me and said, you know what?
I did know about what happened to you as a kid.
I'm really, really sorry. I should have done something.
The number of people... Who have contacted me with that kind of information?
Precisely zero.
Bagel, goose egg, a big fat nothing.
Zero. So the idea that I'm going to look at my elders and I'm going, well, you know, they really care about the poor.
They really care about suffering.
They don't. They care about their own comfort.
They care about staying out of trouble.
And half of them...
When they heard me being attacked as a child, half of them maybe covered their ears, half of them maybe smiled and wished they could join in.
I don't know and I don't fucking care.
And now, a lot of this, the worst of it happened when I grew up in England when I was little.
And now, I have to try and save that godforsaken...
Backwards, L-shaped hellhole of a country.
Now, I have to swallow my history and I have to say, sure, assholes, I'll fight for Brexit.
Sure, I'll fight to keep migration and immigration down to manageable levels.
Sure, I'll fight for your economy.
That takes something, that takes a perspective that would cause most people's heads to go full-on scanners...
You ignored and enabled, right?
This is an enablement. If you know of a child who's being abused and you ignore it, that is exactly what the abuser is counting on.
My mom understood society long before I did.
Long before I did.
Because I listened to society, but she knew what society was all about.
She could pound and pound and pound and pound.
And she knew no one was coming.
No one was calling.
No one was going to be alerted.
Not the neighbors, not friends, not their parents, not the teachers, not the priests.
No one! No one was going to give a shit.
No one was coming. No one was calling.
No one was going to intervene.
And that, frankly, is the shit stain of an island that I grew up on.
And now...
I am standing on the White Cliffs of Dover, pushing back against third world immigration, against collectivism, against the additional bureaucratic layers of the EU. I am fighting to save a culture that assisted in my torment.
Oh, yes, of course, when the British press write the most outrageous things about me, people are like, oh, I'm going to buy that.
Wow, that's really interesting.
These are the people that I have to save.
And let me tell you, let me tell you, Krishna, my friend, sometimes it's a bit of a struggle.
It's a bit of a struggle to say, oh yeah, I gotta stand and save this because part of me is like, who do I join to burn it down?
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess I can totally hear where you're coming from.
And I guess, you know, that's what a lot of people tend to say when I bring up the arguments to be raising your content is, you know, why should I care about what Stefan says?
You know, even if he has, like, you know, good reasons and arguments and evidence, so it's just why I listen to you.
But I guess maybe that ought to be the litmus test as to, you know, whose opinions and judgments you should, you know, care about in value versus whose you should dismiss.
I mean, do you think that's maybe being a little too naive or...
I don't know what your question is.
No idea what your question is. Okay, for example, I listen to Stefan Molyneux and he talks about, you know, let's say why socialism is evil and why freedom and self-reliance and self-responsibility is a more moral way to live and a moral way for society to function, I guess, if you will. But, you know, I guess if you listen to, let's say, someone like Bernie Sanders who says that, let's say, socialism is the way to go and You know, red lines are a good thing kind of thing.
I guess, you know, I was always, you know, confused as to why, you know, people would listen to, let's say, you know, Sanders versus, you know, Molyneux, not to make it too personal.
And that's the thing.
It's like, you know, if I try to like...
I gotta stop you because you're just dumb.
I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
But I will say this, Krishna. You know, it's kind of interesting you said not to make it too personal.
You've listened to the show for a while, right?
Right. So if I were to listen to...
I think this is where the issue may be for you, man.
You've heard me listen to people talk about very difficult childhood experiences, right?
Yes. And what do I say?
Um... You know, gosh, I guess they need a refresher.
I'll just tell you because I don't want you going off on another filibuster here.
I expressed a little bit of human fucking sympathy for what they're talking about.
And what did you do? I listened and I guess I agreed.
No, you went off on some abstract thing about me and Bernie Sanders.
Not one ounce of sympathy, not one ounce of compassion, not one ounce of I've reached out as human being to human being when one human being is talking about something that was great suffering.
It's just, you know, I thought about something when you were talking and I guess I had lost it.
So the problem is that you may just lack elemental compassion and empathy as a human being.
It's possible. Yeah.
And maybe that's, you know, because I haven't really been taught, you know, an example of what that looks like or somebody else.
Well, no, you've been listening to my show for a while, right?
And I'm pretty good with that compassion and empathy stuff, right?
When I listen to people crying out in pain about things that happened to them in the past, I say, wow, I'm incredibly sorry.
What a difficult thing. How are you doing?
Oh, I mean, and I feel your pain, dude.
I mean, I'm sorry for, you know, what you had to go through, even though I wasn't there for it.
I mean, it just hurts, you know, to be the subject of Because, you know, when I'm giving you a whole speech about how people didn't notice my pain when I was younger, and then you go off on some abstract topic afterwards, you know that you're doing exactly what I've just criticized people for in my history, right?
I guess I do now. Do you not make that connection at all?
You just kind of veer away from a sort of naked expression of human emotion, right?
Right, right. No, I mean, I guess I got to admit, you know, I guess I'm struggling to, you know, absorb all this sort of in a fast-paced manner, but I guess, you know, I haven't really done anything like this before, so I want to give it a tryout.
All right. Well, I would suggest that you give that a tryout with people in your life, and maybe that will help you find some more quality people and some kind of purpose.
But thanks very much for your call. I found it very instructive and illuminating.
Let's move on to the next caller.
Right up next we have Bob.
Bob wrote in and said, I know there is no real future with this type of thinking and it reminds me of Dr.
Ben Carson recently saying that poor people are poor because they think poor.
I have on one hand Dr.
Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, and Jesse Lee Peterson telling me that the problem is cultural and can be fixed, while Jared Taylor on the other hand is telling me that the IQ level for blacks makes blacks more prone to criminality and that culture cannot be mended across racial lines.
In the meanwhile, the dramatic reduction in the price of DNA testing, combined with extremely hostile foreigners introduced into our population, has finally given rise to race being a reality and not a social construct.
The black community that rejected me long ago for speaking and acting white now rebukes me for leaving the black community once I started to make good money and reminds me that it is the responsibility of people like me to fix everything.
It is time, way past time, for me to start creating children, and what am I giving them?
What society am I giving my black children?
What burdens am I forcing upon them?
That's from Bob. Hey, Bob, how you doing, man?
Um, it doesn't, I'm doing well, but that sounds like much more of a mouthful than it did when I wrote it.
Has anything changed, or anything you want to clarify?
No, no, no. That has not changed 1%.
Now, I want to be clear here.
This is not... And I think you probably know this, but I want to be clear at least to the listeners.
This is not a conjecture, a hypothetical issue.
This is a real question about...
I'm 39 and it's time for me to have children.
Fortunately, my wife is 30.
And... You know, I really fear what kind of future I'll be giving them.
So that is what has been prompting this thinking that I've been having since I was able to actually communicate with Jared Taylor.
All right. I just want to tell you that, well, really smart black guy not having kids, I don't think that's going to help much.
I just want to point that out, you know, just sort of first impressions.
Well, clearly, on an obvious level, yes, that's the case, but let's put that aside for a moment.
Breed for brains!
We have to put that aside.
Now, let me ask you this, Bob, because I don't think that white people, I think they're starting to get this, but I don't think white people get this enough.
And tell me if this makes any sense to you, but if you could sort of help for people to see this, I think it would be very helpful.
So, I don't think white people understand, let's just talk about in white countries, but I don't think, or majority white countries, I don't think that white people understand just how important race is to non-white people.
Like, I just, I don't think they really get it.
And now, that's partly because, obviously, if you're in the majority, race is a little bit less obvious.
But also, it's because anytime white people think about race, it's, like, painful.
Like, it's like, the only time to think about race is how bad you've been to every minority that's ever complained about you, right?
It's like, thinking about race for white people, they don't think about, well, I'm white, there are other people who are white, What does that mean?
Do we have any in-group preference?
You know, what does it mean to be white?
Is there what's common about being white?
What is white culture?
They don't think about that.
They think, wow, let's think about race.
Oh, ancestors, slaves, Jim Crow, segregation.
Oh, Bull O'Connor.
Oh, I can't believe it.
It's terrible. Blacks still underperforming.
Blacks in jail too much.
Oh, it's white privilege.
It's terrible, right?
And so I think that's a kind of shying away from race issues just because there's this sort of white guilt exhaustion thing.
But man alive, do other groups that I've talked to, and you know, it sounds like this is what, some of what you're talking about, maybe it's not, but man is race ever omnipresent in their mind.
It's sort of like Simone de Beauvoir, who wrote a book called The Second Sex, and she said, you know, when I started to think about myself, the first and for some time the only thought that I ever had was, I'm a woman.
And the gender identity was so foundational to her.
And when I think about the Mestizos or the Hispanics with their organization called La Raza, translated as The Race.
And you listen to, there's a debate between Jorge Ramos and Jared Taylor where he's like, ah, you know, there's going to be more Hispanics and it's going to be a beautiful thing and we love our Hispanics and it's like Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic.
And I just don't know that white people get how much other groups think about race and identify as race.
And it's like, my guy, this is our guy, you know.
And I don't think that it...
Because white people are so annoyingly individualistic.
Yay, freedom! Knowing group preference.
Bye-bye, freedom! So I just...
Is what I'm saying make any sense?
Just how other groups...
Race is very up there.
This references our first call, our first ever call about what I call the coming race war.
Every race in this country, virtually every race except Asians.
When I say Asians, I obviously mean Chinese.
Wasn't it great when you could use the word orientals and just stop having to explain everything all the time?
I don't know when oriental became a bad word.
It's not a negative word.
It's not a hostile word.
I don't know that it's associated with any historical subjugations like the N-word, but I don't know when we start...
It's like you had to get rid of the word Orientals so that you could mix in people from the Middle East with Orientals and just call everyone...
Or people from India and England just call everyone Asian.
I'm actually going to try and resurrect the word Orientals because it's just annoying to have to keep talking about it this way.
As of this conversation, it is resurrected.
Maybe it will die afterwards, but...
Right, okay. So, obviously, not talking about Orientals, they're a particular outlier in this, but every race, every cultural group in this country have been holding whites hostage so that whites can't talk about race.
I mean, you say that whites feel bad about talking about race, but look what happens when they do.
I couldn't go to Jared Taylor's website in some networks.
It's blocked. It says hate, white supremacy, neo-Nazi, etc.
People have filters on that.
And what is he really saying?
He's really saying only the exact same things that Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X said in the 60s.
The exact same word.
That people tend to be with their own kind.
And so when you say that whites feel a certain way about talking about race, I mean, what do you expect?
Well, you can't win.
I mean, the way that it's set up, Bob, it's such a terrible no-win situation, right?
So if whites move out...
That's white flight and it's racist.
If whites move in, that's gentrification and it's racist.
If whites don't talk about race, then they're being insensitive to the sufferings of other races, and that's racist.
If whites do talk about race or act on the basis of race, then they're noticing race and acting on the basis of race, and that's racist.
Like, you can't win in any way, shape, or form.
There's no way to win other than you can buy a little temporary piece by throwing resources, you know, but that's not going to work for very long.
Well, I would like to say, so for this conversation, let's try to pretend, again, this is extremely personal, unlike the other conversations we've had, let's try to pretend it exists in a vacuum, and let's treat all of these other races as other variables sort of outside ourselves.
Yeah.
OK.
So that we can actually because I really I really see a conflict.
I see a major conflict between Jared Taylor's viewpoint for the future of race relations and Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Larry Elder.
I see a major conflict because Jared Taylor is correct.
Race is real.
And we are like I said in that word soup of a question, we have DNA testing now extraordinarily cheap and people are starting to recognize.
Holy crap.
I am actually different than these people.
I am truly different. And we have ways of testing intelligence and all types of historical data to actually use to make real assessments of race realism.
So we have that on one hand, and then we have on the other hand, oh, blacks have just been, you know, the government needs to leave black people alone, and we'll just integrate just like every other race.
Those two things are extraordinarily at odds.
Right. How do we, how, I know this is not for you to answer immediately, but how can we ever reconcile those two ideas?
Right. Well, it's the old question to me, Bob, which is if races act differently, it can't be racist to point that out.
Right? And to me, this is really, really important.
You've probably seen, or if you haven't, they're well worth looking up.
So people have created a map of America, and they have said...
Whites voted for smaller government, and white males very much in particular, white males voted for smaller government, and women and minorities voted for bigger government.
And this is not made up.
I mean, statistically, it's pretty rock-solid.
And so, for me, if, you know, blacks are going to consistently vote for the left, for Democrats, for bigger government, and Hispanics, like 80% plus of Hispanics want bigger government.
And if you've, I mean, to take race out of it, just look at an ideology.
Like in London, if I remember rightly, there was an imam who said for his Muslim followers that they had to vote Labour, they had to vote left, or they were going to hell.
I don't think that's exactly how democracy was supposed to function, or maybe it was, I don't know.
Groups act very differently.
If the majority of white males want smaller government, and the majority of Hispanics and blacks want bigger government, of course they're going to be at odds.
And it's not racist to point that out.
Now, it's racist for me to say, or it would be collectivist would be a better way of putting it, for me to say, Bob, you must support Hillary because you're black, right?
That would be wrong because you can't take the aggregate for the group and apply it to an individual.
Of course, right? Otherwise there are no tall Chinese people and no short Danes, right?
I mean, that's ridiculous. But when you zoom out and you look at a big enough group, the white males who want smaller government have to look at unmarried women of any race.
They have to look at blacks. They have to look at Hispanics and say, well, we're not friends in this matter, because you guys are consistently voting for bigger government on average, and I want a smaller government.
I want lower taxes.
And so that, you know, pointing that out, I mean, people can scream racism all they want, and it is racist to ascribe either positive or negative characteristics to an ethnic group that aren't supported by facts.
But, you know, the old, your facts are racist kind of thing, that's sort of a common meme that's out there these days.
Hate facts, you know, said by people who just hate facts.
But if groups as a whole act very differently...
Then that has ramifications.
It doesn't in a free society, I think, really.
But it does when it comes to voting for bigger or smaller government, which is the big question in the world at the moment, at least in the West.
Okay, well, I didn't think there was an answer there until about 75% of the way through there.
I guess that is an answer. Woohoo! Personal best!
Sorry, go ahead. That is an answer, uh...
And this leads to the next thing.
I guess I expected this a little.
So what this happens is a split of people along ideological lines, obviously, but you still have a situation where one ideological group still, I don't know how to say this, but within their group, they're still going to have racial preferences.
They're still going to split along racial lines.
So let me illustrate what I'm trying to say here.
What I see eventually happening is that I join the ranks of the quote-unquote elite black people.
The black people who are all Democrats, who all think that all of the people in the projects, all of the people on welfare need that because they're just not good enough.
And that I get to live in a nice suburb or like Chippaqua, New York or something crazy like the Hamptons or something.
But they all have to live in the project.
And that's the future I see for myself.
But I hate those people.
I hate...
They're like the Clintons. They're like Obama.
Wait, wait. You just went through a list of like five different groups, Bob.
Which people are you currently hating?
Just so I make sure I keep track. Okay.
The people... Okay.
So let me be clear.
I'm sorry. I kind of rushed.
W.E.B. Du Bois had a major ideological difference of how the future of black people needs to go with Booker T. Washington.
And his idea is that the top 10...
Percent of black people go and demand from the government and then come and share it among the black community.
And this is how I think Democrats see themselves.
They see themselves as lords and servants.
They have lords like Hillary Clinton, like Barack Obama, who get to live the great life, and all of servants who basically have to live off the government.
I see myself joining this as far as my relationship with the black community.
I see myself moving to living in an extremely gated community, and well, I do now, and very far away from the black community as a whole.
But the conflict there is I hate the people who do that.
They think that they're lords and serfs and I'm more conservative and I try to actually judge everyone on their own merits.
Right. So, and just for those who don't know, right, the other view of the let's go get reparations, let's go get stuff from the government to make up for the past.
The other idea is, which was also pretty prominent and sadly has been lost to history because it doesn't serve the leftist narrative, but the other idea Which is still a very, very strong theme in certain intellectuals of every race and gender, which is, just leave us alone.
You know, slavery was a big, giant government program.
The slave ships, the impressment, the forcing of whites to go hunting slaves, the capture, the enforcement of contracts.
Slavery was just some big, giant, god-awful government program.
And the last thing we need is another government program.
And just leave us alone.
We want equality before the law.
We don't want special treatment.
We don't want special favors. We want to rise and fall on our own merits.
And stop social engineering.
We've had the social engineering of slavery.
Let's not have the social engineering of welfare state and reparations and all that kind of stuff.
And, of course, you know, I mean, Jim Crow was social engineering.
Segregation was social engineering and so on.
And there is these two poles.
And it's not just in the black community.
It's in a lot of different communities.
But it is... Do we go hunting for the free market or do we go hunting for government benefits?
And it is a very challenging question to bring up in the community because it's pretty polarized, right?
Well, it's polarized, but as far as percentage-wise, I will say that the percentage today after After the existence of people like you, honestly, the people of nude media who give people an alternative of the narrative that has been brainwashing our community for decades,
that the number today, the percentages don't look as bleak as they used to be, but 99 point something percent of black people voted for Barack Obama.
I mean, just a staggering number of people.
So, including me, sadly.
I shouldn't really admit this in public.
But I was different.
I had to grow up. But anyway.
That percentage is so incredibly bad that when you say polarizing, what you have is a few people who are completely and utterly hated by the black community called Uncle Toms or Coons or whatever word of the day that they use to try to denigrate these people.
And I know you can guess who they are.
I mean, there are websites that list them.
And as soon as someone like Bill Cosby, who has done More for the black community than maybe any living black person.
As soon as he says, you know what, maybe you need to pull your pants up.
Maybe you need to speak English.
As soon as he does that, all of that gets wiped away and now he's an uppercut.
So when you say polarized, you're not, you understand what I'm saying?
You're not giving it the color that it really, color.
I'm not giving it the proportion that it deserves, right?
Polarized is like two equal opposing forces, whereas like 99 and 1 is not much of a, right, okay.
Right. That's exactly what I'm saying.
Now, and the funny thing is, too, is that I mean, I'm sure that there's a person who's called me racist once or twice on the internet in the past, but the reality is for me, I know, I know what will help the black community.
Oh, let me tell you, Bob.
Let me tell you all about what would help the black community.
There are a couple of things that I have talked about for many, many years that I think would help the black community the most.
Number one is stop hitting your kids, guys.
Please, please. Listen to Jesus.
Don't listen to me. Listen to Jesus, who says, whatever you do to the least among you, you also do to me.
So unless you're thinking about pulling down Jesus's inappropriate loincloth and smacking him on his divine butt, stop hitting your kids.
And I've been talking about this for years and years and years, specifically aimed sometimes at the black community, as I did in the Trayvon Martin video.
So, yeah, stop hitting your kids.
That's really, really important.
Read to your kids, talk to your kids, try and help their language skills develop as much as humanly possible.
There's lots of things that can be done that way.
Try and resurrect a black family.
Lots of people have talked about it, but, you know, single moms, really, really bad environment, particularly for boys.
And I've talked a lot about addiction and getting off How to get off addiction and the biochemical roots of addiction and so on, because, of course, some blacks are facing significant problems because of drug addiction, alcohol addiction, and other things like that.
Monogamy, you know, to bring down the terrifying rates of STD prevalence within the black community.
So a lot of the stuff I've talked about, hugely helpful for the black community.
In some ways, ending the welfare state, massively beneficial for the black community.
The black community has been dragged down by the welfare state for a variety of reasons, more so than any other community.
In America and in the West, I think, as a whole.
And the welfare state. But most important, you know, the stuff that I talk about with regards to immigration, like let's stop importing wave after wave of low-skilled people and pumping their wallets full of stolen taxpayer money.
Enormously beneficial. If there's like one thing that you could do to change incentives in the black community quickly and easily, it would be to stop immigration from the third world.
Just stop immigration from the third world.
I have to break in here for a second. Yeah, go ahead.
Bob, I don't want you as a black guy to interrupt me telling the black community how to fix itself.
Come on, man. Give me some room.
No, I'm kidding. Go ahead. Express that white privilege as much as you can.
That's right. So my uncle, who has three children and about 15 grandchildren in the city where I live in Texas, he is super liberal and he doesn't even let me talk about what I think.
He preaches to me.
He makes me watch all of these These liberal mayors.
Oh, as an aside, he made me watch the mayor of Louisiana, New Orleans, who they just pulled down all of the statues in their goals of history revision, I guess.
Yeah, because that's the big problem in the black community, right?
Bob, statues. Boy, if it wasn't for those statues, man, everything would just be great.
And so the guy, actually, there's one thing he said that I couldn't hold myself, and I promised him I wouldn't say anything, but he talked about how the unemployment for black men in New Orleans is between 50 and 60 percent.
And I just paused the video and I said, Uncle, this is a joke, right?
He has a sanctuary city!
Maybe that's the reason.
Maybe that has something to do with it.
But anyway, weeks later, my uncle comes to me and he has been involved in the school district in this Texas city for a very long time.
His wife was a principal and he was a teacher off and on.
And he said to me, the school district in this city is in the top 10 in the country and it's 61% Latino.
He said, holy crap, I didn't know that.
I said, oh really?
So I'm not such a racist liar anymore, am I? And it's funny because he had watched it go from around 10% when he was, I don't know, 40 years ago, to now 61%.
And I just laughed at him and laughed at him.
So I just wanted to say that in addendum to what you were talking about, the constant immigration.
Right. Well, and of course, as we know, I mean, blacks are getting pushed out of the neighborhoods by Hispanics and the groups that move in, which is, it is pretty rough.
So, and, you know, my big rants against the drug war, which I've been doing For well over 30 years, the drug war, as we know, particularly bad on blacks.
And it's not, I mean, I'm not going to just chalk it up to racism.
I'm sorry, I can't even use the word chalk when it comes to racism because it's white.
But anyway, I'm not going to chalk that up to racism alone.
But as you know, of course, the number of black men in particular who can't get jobs because of a criminal...
Record is enormous.
I mean, it shuts them out of the community completely.
But in particular, of course, black males are kind of rudderless because the women so often marry the government.
The women so often turn to the government as provider.
And if they can't get a lot of employment or can't get good employment, either because of drug crimes or because of terrible education or because of massive waves of third world immigration.
So, okay, they can't be husbands.
They can't be fathers.
They can't be workers. What the hell are they going to do?
And you combine that with the information we know about the warrior gene, combine that with increased physical aggression against children, partly black children, partly as a result of the welfare state, of course you have a witch's brew of a perfect storm of just about everything you could do to make a group Do as badly as humanly possible.
And some of these things are fixable.
Look, I don't know where the hell the race and IQ stuff is going to go.
I don't know if they're going to find a genetic course for it that they've actually just started editing the human genes.
I mean, it's just incredible.
They're going in there and, you know, like it's like an old TRS-80 where you go in and do a command line edit on your code.
Oh boy, there's something for the older people.
But... Yeah, I mean, so I don't know where the race and IQ stuff goes.
I still want people to research it.
I still want to find out the genetic basis.
I still want to find out whether it can be solved through some sort of editing or whether there's something else.
You know, we just recently had on Jordan Peterson, who's had some success, significant success, closing performance gaps between blacks and whites using his psychological tools at selfauthoring.com if you choose to take it on.
And I hope that people who listen will.
It's well worth checking out, selfauthoring.com if you sign up for it.
It's pretty cheap, but you can get an additional discount of 20% by entering the word Molyneux.
And a video, an interview that I thought was great, a podcast interview that I thought was great, was somewhat underappreciated, the Stephen Hsu interview, H-S-U, Stephen, S-T-E-P-H-E-N, Stephen Hsu interview.
People should check it out.
So, man, there's so much that could be done, but, of course, There are these two poles, right?
There are these two poles. And I'll just mention this briefly.
Tell me if it makes any sense to you, if it fits into what you're thinking, Bob.
But, of course, there's a difference between blacks and whites in terms of, in general, in terms of outcome, in terms of the IQ testing, in terms of family integrity, in terms of assets.
I mean, in particular, the assets thing is really, really far apart.
Now, the one answer is racism.
Legacy of racism, historical racism, blah, blah, racism, racism, racism.
And that answer has been tried, solving the problems, using that as the framework, has been tried now for 60 years.
For 60 years, the hypothesis before the West, and in particular in America, is that the differences between blacks and whites are the result of white racism against blacks.
That has been the hypothesis.
And as a result, and also as the result of, you know, hard work by the blacks who are interested in politics and stuff like that, you have entire cities where the mayor is black, the police chief is black, you name it, black, you know, the black...
So those cities should be doing great, right?
And the blacks should be doing fantastically.
It should be even better than whites on a whole.
But no, that's not the case.
And I won't go into all the data points, but basically this hypothesis that black underachievement is the result of white racism, we've tried this hypothesis and we've poured trillions, literally trillions of dollars into trying to close this gap with this hypothesis.
And the whole political correctness, social justice warrior movement has come out of this hypothesis that the reason why Blacks do badly relative to whites or relative to Orientals.
It's back. It's because of white racism against blacks.
Now, the other answer, and, you know, this is not as simple as, I hate to say it, black and white, but another answer is to say, well, there's an IQ difference, and that explains what's going on.
And until we learn to address that, we're not going to make any particular progress.
Now, we have tried the white racism...
Ending white racism, dealing with white racism, fixing white racism, making whites completely paralyzed about any kind of race issues and blah, blah, blah.
And we've tried that and it hasn't worked.
It hasn't worked. There are more black families smashed up.
There are more single moms now than there were when this whole program started.
There are fewer blacks getting into the middle class than when this program started on a sort of ratio basis.
And there now has been a couple of generations of...
No work, black families.
And now, again, this happens for whites and all that.
I'm just talking about this particular issue.
Now, I think, though, I mean, I think that the race and IQ stuff is important to talk about, but there's a lot that's in between all of this stuff.
And... I think we need to put aside that the only answer is white racism.
Because, I mean, we've tried that. And if you're trying something and it's not working, you should try something else.
It doesn't mean you have to completely abandon the first hypothesis, but it means you say, okay, well, we've given that a shot.
Not really working so well.
Let's try something else. But the problem is now you've got entire industries.
You've got entire billions of dollars of resource transfers that are founded on this white racism narrative.
And so trying to change that direction and look for different solutions for those who really care about the black community and want it to do better, as every reasonable person does, well, unfortunately now there's a strong headwind of economic incentives that resists changing the narrative to something that might actually be a lot more helpful.
Okay, so I will speak to that for a moment, but I want to be a little more selfish and not speak particularly about...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, no, I get it.
That's fine. But I will speak to that for a second, and I will say that I think the problem is such a terrible situation that it's going to create a massive pendulum swing.
And so I agree with you completely that you say, all right, let's back off of this plan.
It has not worked. And the Democrats answer with that, with schools, with food stamps, whatever is, we just haven't spent enough.
We're just about to turn the corner, another couple of billion, hundreds of billions of dollars, and we're right there.
Exactly. But anyway, we're just about to turn the corner.
It's gotten massively worse.
I mean, Detroit is like Afghanistan.
Oh, Chirac! They call it Chirac.
I'm actually from Chicago, which is funny you say that.
You know, anytime your city is compared to a place that was bombed from the sky and wherein there are like half-life depleted uranium shells embedded in buildings and people, that is not a postcard to come visit.
I just wanted to point that out.
Well, that actually makes a perfect segue.
When I lived in Chicago, I lived on the 75th floor of the, I don't know, fourth tallest building in the city.
I lived, as my black friends called, in an ivory tower.
And I had no idea what was really going on in the black community, so I couldn't even talk about that stuff.
And worse than that, I'm responsible for how terrible the black community is.
Now, this is a common thing, and you might not know anything about this.
You'd have no way to personally bump into this.
But when black people make, I don't know, a decent six figure or more or way more, the common thing, well, this happens with everyone.
Forget just black people. When people make a lot of money, they go, I want a house in that neighborhood over there.
I want that mansion over there in that neighborhood where none of my children can be shot.
Sure. But when black people do it, they're called traitors.
And their entire family says, you're the problem that the black community is so terrible because you are responsible to stay, your responsibility is to stay here and fix the whole community.
And so that is, I know it sounds crazy, but I promise you, there are song after song and...
No, no, see Bob, Bob, all you need to do is give this perfect answer.
Are you ready? See, the problem, my friends, my brothers, the problem is white racism.
So here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to move out to the suburbs.
I'm going to infiltrate these whites.
I'm going to learn how they think.
I'm going to find those secret clan rallies.
We all know they're happening.
I'm going to go deep, deep undercover.
I'm going to go so deep undercover, I'm going to wear a sweater vest, man.
That's how deep undercover I'm going to go.
I'm going to get a subscription to Reader's Digest, whatever the hell that is.
That's how deep I'm going to go into the white community.
I'm going to go so deep into the white community, I'm going to watch Weeds unironically.
That's how deep I'm going to go.
I'm going to find out all of this stuff.
I'm going to find out how they operate.
I'm going to find out their secret pamphlets, their secret hand shapes.
I'm going deep, baby, into the white community.
I'm going to fix white racism from there.
Now, that does mean, sadly, I have to move out of this community, but you understand I'm willing to take that bullet for the greater good.
Well, as awesome and colorful as that sounds, the problem still comes back to, what about my family in the future?
Are they now going to be the pariah Of the black...
Not the pariah. God, I shouldn't say that.
Well, yeah. Yeah, I should say that.
But your kid's going to be mixed race, if I remember rightly, right?
That is correct.
But that... Black people claim anyone with brown skin, if you hadn't learned by the Tiger Woods situation, or even Rachel Dolezal.
Jesus, she's not even any part black.
I just wanted to say to everyone that, speaking for all whites, we don't know what the fuck she was up to.
Like, she did not bring this up in any of the meetings.
She did not tell us at all what she was planning to do.
I don't know what that was all about.
Sean King, don't even get me started.
But the Dolla Soul situation, I don't even know.
I don't even know.
Like, I saw a picture of her as a kid.
It's like, honey, you can't walk from the garage to the house.
The sun will set you on fire!
You need an umbrella. We're going to dig you a tunnel.
Do not expose yourself to the sun.
It is the enemy of you Northern Europeans.
I don't know what the hell that I'm just telling you.
I don't know. But the question is, listen, because I truly believe that Thomas Sowell has less respect in the black community than a person who has killed and raped 20 people in jail.
I really believe that.
I know it sounds crazy, but I truly believe that that's the case.
You never you you always hear people like Michelle Alexander or who is that one guy?
Oh, God, Michael, Eric Dyson talking about how we have to do something for these people and how they're victims, that they're all great people.
But.
To be an Uncle Tom, to be an Larry Elder, to be a.
Charles Barkley is now called an Uncle Tom.
Really? Yes, yes, because right after the Trayvon Martin shooting, he said he's a thug.
He's a thug. He beat up this guy and he got shot for it.
And everybody went, oh, he's an Uncle Tom.
And then they found out that he is some percentage Republican.
So the point of the matter is that that class of people is a complete...
Complete rejection from the black community.
God help us if you're Jason Reilly, right?
By the way, I'm not saying you can explain this to me because you're black, Bob.
I'm not saying that for a moment, but just help a brother understand why is Mike Brown's family getting money?
Oh, well, Dr.
Michael Brown was a pillar of...
You know he probably has about three honorary doctorate degrees by now.
He was a pillar of the community who was simply...
Minding his own business while a police officer shot him and he was on his way to college to do great things for the black community.
That's why. I'm not joking.
I'm obviously exaggerating a little bit, but I am not joking.
So does Dr.
Trayvon Martin. But I mean, look, I mean, I think everyone's like, well, we don't want the city to burn again.
So, I mean, it's a payoff, right?
I mean, it's a shakedown, I would imagine, right?
I mean, because the forensics are very clear, right?
Mike Brown did attack.
The cop, he did charge the cop, he was shot, you know, in the front, not in the back, and there's witnesses, and I mean, the guy was, you know, he reached in, he was wrestling with the gun, the gun went off in the car, I mean, things that would get, I don't know, would get a space alien killed if he tried that with his eight tentacles, right? I mean... It is sort of recognized.
It's like, well, you know, I could see, like, in a certain nihilistic way, say, you know, well, good for you, Browns.
You got your payout, you know, and, you know, good.
But it's not like nobody thinks it's, like, right or fair, do they?
These are goodness gracious.
You said this yourself.
These are hate facts.
Everything you just said are hate facts.
And no one...
I've argued with Michael Brown with at least 10 people.
None of them know this information.
And when I present it to them, they say I'm lying or they say it's a racist cop who created the information.
Every single one.
But no, I was almost wrapped up.
So I do have to ask this.
This is the point. I am a pariah of sorts in the black community.
I'm a traitor. I'm an Uncle Tom or whatever.
And my children, that's kind of what I'm giving to them.
So I really have a choice.
My choice is to say, you know what, black community?
Fuck you. Fuck you.
All you ever did was rob me and call me nigger for 20 years or 30...
Wait, 100% of my life.
What am I talking about? 20 years.
That's pretty funny. I guess the first year I might not have understood it or comprehended what the word meant.
But... But that is where I am, honestly.
That is my current choice.
I am leaning towards, fuck the black community, fuck it.
It's not helping anyone.
It's completely destroying itself from the inside.
And even worse, and I talked to Jared Taylor about this, the black community is siding against other Americans, siding with Muslims, siding with Mexicans, siding with everybody against other Americans in our country.
It's just such a clusterfuck to me.
I'm sorry about the language. I don't know if you listen to the show quite often, but sometimes it's like if I beep out all my language, it's just an entire show beeping.
Right. So that's where I am, and I don't like that because I do feel like a traitor.
Okay, but tell me what that means, if you don't mind, Bob.
I mean, so a traitor. A traitor to what?
A traitor in what way?
I have... Well, that's obviously the question.
I have a clan. I have a family.
I have an extended family.
And I have a cultural family.
I am simply turning my back on them.
And now, yes, I'm turning my back...
But what shared values?
Right? Because if it's about race, then of course, right?
I mean, if it's like, well, you're bound to the other blacks with hoops of steel and history and genetics and color.
Like, if it's just a black thing...
Well then, of course, yeah. I mean, if you walk away from that community for whatever reason, then you're going to feel like a traitor.
But of course, as you know, I'm the annoying philosophy guy who talks about values more so than genetics, right?
So where are the values that you're betraying if you walk away from dysfunctional elements within the community?
Okay, now that's the perfect question and we have reached full circle in this conversation.
Now, yes, you're right.
We don't share the same values, but...
Race is now more real than it's ever been.
So now I am bound to this community even though I don't want to be.
Even though we don't share values, people are waking up to the idea that race is real, and if race is real, I am now bound to this community.
Okay, that's a pretty boxed-in place to be, right?
I mean, that's a pretty boxed-in place to be.
And if it's any consolation, I sometimes have a bit of a hate on for the white community as well.
You know, it's like in Fight Club, you know, the pandas won't fuck to save their own species.
Anyway. Let me say something about that.
White liberals are actually the worst of everyone.
I mean, the black people getting welfare are just doing the best they can to try to get some food.
The guy hopping over the fence or just walking across the border is just doing his best to feed his family.
He's not truly the bad guy.
He's definitely a bad guy a lot of times.
But the true bad guy is the guy who props the door open for him and then goes and lives in Chippaqua, New York, where Clinton lives, the whitest city outside of Iceland.
Right. So white liberals, I think, are the absolute worst.
So I totally understand that kind of hatred.
And we're not exactly running out of them.
Yeah, I mean, even if you count Jews as whites.
But anyway, okay, so this question of race is more real than ever...
If we do start to look at some of this data, I mean, the data has a way to get out now, and you've probably heard some of this stuff Before, but because it's been a while since I've mentioned it, right?
So this is for some data that comes out of Jared Taylor's group, The Color of Crime.
It's well worth reading. It's well, well worth reading.
The research is very good in it, right?
So 2013, 660,000 crimes of interracial violence between blacks and whites.
Blacks were the perpetrators 85% of the time.
A black person is 27 times more likely to attack a white person than a white person is to attack a black person.
And I'll let everyone look up their own rape statistics as far as this goes.
But... It is just astonishing.
Hispanic, eight times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa.
2014, New York City.
Black is 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder.
Hispanic, 12.4 times more likely.
If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91%, the robbery rate by 81%, and the shooting rate by 97%.
In an all-white Chicago, the murder would decline 90%, rape by 81%, and robbery by 90%.
And so, when this information is out there, and then the whites say, okay, well, not just the whites, but the orientals as well, say, okay, this is...
This is a pretty dangerous environment.
And the idea that the black community as a whole is feeling heavily victimized when, in an interracial crime, the black person is 27 times more likely to attack a white person and then crying victimhood and so on, it does become tough.
And so... I, you know, resolutely continue, as in this conversation, as in all my conversations, Bob, I resolutely continue to judge people as individuals.
You know, when I'm dealing with a person, when I'm dealing with a fellow carbon-based life form, I want to deal with that person as an individual.
When you zoom out, though, when you look at the aggregation, that's important.
I'd love to live in a society where I don't care about the aggregations.
But unfortunately, because we live in a heavily statist interventionist society where resources are sloshing back and forth based on victim narratives, we have to care about these things.
So my question to you, Bob, is you want to be a father, right?
Yes, absolutely. Well, more than ever, thanks to people like you, no thanks.
That's great to hear. That's great to hear.
So you want to be a father.
What values do you want your child to be?
To grow up with. Do you want them to grow up with genetic affiliation is the highest value.
Forget about the values.
Forget about what people are preaching.
Forget about whether their interests coincide or oppose yours.
What matters is the color of their skin, not the content of their character.
Are those the values you want to transmit down to generations?
Obviously not, but again, you and I are probably in 100% agreement here, but a mass majority of the population just don't think like this.
Certainly not black people.
That whole color of your skin, content of your character, I don't, I mean, they can quote it, but they certainly, God, I'm calling black people they, but they certainly don't live by it.
Right. No, no, no.
Come on, Bob. Are you saying that they didn't judge the content of Barack Obama's character?
That that wasn't the thing that they were mostly voting for?
Okay, I get it. I get it.
Right. Okay, but do you want...
And, you know, listen, this is not a choice that I face, so I say this with all delicacy and sensitivity, although there are lots of white people who can't stand me and all that, but...
Do you want...
Your kids to fall down that well, as far as judging people by the color of the skin or the content of the character?
Of course, I don't want them to fall down that well, but I don't want them to be ostracized as the...
I don't know, as Thomas Sowell is.
Thomas Sowell. I don't want him to be treated like that.
I don't want them to have that life, although his life is pretty sweet.
You think? Poor Thomas Sowell getting out of the projects and teaching at Harvard.
Oh man, talk about taking bullets for the course.
Man, that guy, he had it rough.
Okay, clearly you understand what I'm saying.
Obviously, I want them to be that kind of exceptional person.
I've had a lot of struggles with it myself.
No, listen, I get it.
I get it. I mean, I shudder every time my daughter asks how the world works.
I can't tell you, honey.
I'm sorry, it's a secret.
For example, in four days...
And four days from now, I'm going to my uncle's 50th anniversary, that same uncle who realized that we're educating Mexico.
You know, that's what our tax dollars are doing.
At the expense of the black community.
Yes, of course.
And so I go to his 50th wedding anniversary and I'm the only Trumper there and everybody knows it.
And I have two second cousins who both have Mexican boyfriends, and they just hate me.
They just absolutely hate me.
This is the kind of thing.
This is the kind of thing that I actually am trying to avoid for my children.
Now, what is it that they hate about you, as far as that goes?
I mean, I... I know it's not real or whatever, but what is it that they, like if they were to call into this show and say, you know, Bob's talking out of his ass, here's what you really need to know about Bob, and here's what we dislike about him, what would they say?
Bob's a racist. That's what they'd say.
Bob's a racist. He hates Mexicans because they're Mexican.
That's what they'd say, unquestionably.
Right. I have to say another thing.
And I'll try to keep this from being a 10.
I am a classical musician, and I listen to classical music.
I perform piano and opera, and only in social settings now.
I did play in public when I was younger.
But this kind of thing also makes huge, what is the word?
Say the word for me, ostracization.
Ostracization?
Ostracization.
Yes, the act of becoming an ostrich.
It is very painful. But anyway.
So it makes a huge amount of that.
But to me, I don't like rap.
I don't like R&B. I mean, a Mahler symphony to me is to rap what an iPhone is to a stone tablet.
Right. So, okay, so now I've gone overboard, but you have a clear picture of why I have this kind of outside picture.
I mean, this outside relationship with the black community.
And I speak German.
I learned German so I could read good and listen to Wagner operas.
Right. Right. Right.
No, listen, it is...
And I'm not going to try and compare this, right?
But I mean, just to sort of reach across the aisle, Bob, in terms of somewhat similar experience, you know, I mean, I love philosophy and talking to people of every race about philosophy my whole life has been kind of a challenge, you know?
Why don't you just loosen up and enjoy things, man?
Why don't you just analyze everything?
You're overthinking things.
It's like, oh... Everything that you love in this world was somebody overthinking something.
Well, you don't want to overthink whether it's the gas or the brake that you push in traffic.
You don't want to overthink whether the bridge is really going to stand up.
You don't want to overthink whether TCPIP packets get delivered to the right place or not.
You don't want to overthink these things.
It's like, yeah. Do you want the surgeon to overthink the operation?
You kind of do, don't you?
Well, I am stealing that.
Of course, I've heard that myself.
I am totally stealing that from you.
Oh, yeah. No, please. You won't be alone now.
But yeah, with this overthink, you overthink things too much.
It's like, just because you can't think doesn't mean that I'm overthinking.
It just means that I'm thinking.
It looks like magic to you, but it's not.
If I'm working out with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime and I'm going to say, hey man, Arnie, you're just overlifting.
It's like, no, I'm just lifting what I can lift, right?
It's a bird showing up and it flies.
You're just overwalking, man.
Anyway. But yeah, I mean, what choice do you have?
I mean, you're either going to sink into the collective morass Of genetics, or you're going to pursue values.
And I'm, again, not trying to say that this is an easy choice, or it's harder for you than it is for me, so I really want to be sensitive to that, but the principle remains the same.
The fact that it's harder doesn't fundamentally change things.
You know that you want your kids to judge character, not skin color.
You know that you want your kids to pursue the highest ideals you can inspire within them, and not Have them feel that they're somehow excluded or ostracized from a club it doesn't sound like you really want to be in anyway.
Yeah, from all the expletives, right?
Well, yeah, you know that old Grouchy, like, I would never join any club that would have me as a member, you know, the old Grouchy Marx line.
It's like, if it's not a club that you want to be in, if it's a club that you don't particularly respect, if it's a racial-based in-group preference club whose values oppose yours, like, foundationally, right?
This isn't even, this is way wider than rap versus classical.
And by classical, I mean, of course, classical rap, Grandmaster Flash, Furious 5, anyway.
But the values are fundamentally oppositional to what you, as far as I understand, believe in.
And, you know, I'm sorry, like it or not, you're just going to have to stick with your values because you can't unring that bell.
You can't undo what you know.
You can't become something other than who you are.
You can only become less of who you are.
No, I agree.
Well, you know what? I'm going to get off right now and let you move on.
But thank you very much.
You've solidified my ideas a little more.
I think we could talk forever if we did talk too much.
You're welcome back anytime.
It's always a great pleasure.
I'm going to get off now.
It's like, well, I guess fatherhood is imminent.
All right. But just, yeah, good luck with the pursuit of fatherhood and let us know how it goes.
Absolutely. Have a great day.
Thanks, Bob. Oh, right up next we have Z. Z wrote in and said, Perhaps this is not your intention,
but the remark comes across as an insult to some of my friends who are in inter-ethnic relationships because it suggests, one, people who love diversity do so because of a fetish banging people from exotic cultures, and two, that people seeking diversity are not productive or busy members of society.
They have lots of time on their hands.
Yet this remark seems to be at odds with your life experience because you grew up in an ethically diverse environment.
You mentioned admiring how some of your black friends had healthy, stable families.
Moreover, at the end of the same call, you disapprove of the establishment of ethnostates by saying that restoring homogeneity is rivers of blood.
That is an extraordinarily violent thing and that you hope it never comes to be.
That said, can you explain the reasoning behind the original remark?
That's from Z. Hey Z, how you doing?
Hi, I'm doing great. You know, it's an honor to be on your show.
First, I wanted to say that I've learned a tremendous amount from listening to your podcasts and your arguments have given me a lot of clarity and peace of mind.
So I wanted to let you and Michael know how grateful I am for your hard work.
So thank you. Thank you.
So for context, I'm American-born Chinese, so to use terminology from the previous call, I am an Oriental, in quotes.
Thank God it's not just me using that word.
Yeah, you know, you had to reintroduce that vocabulary to my You know, you had to introduce that term back into my vocabulary.
It's just, you know, because in England, Asians, like, include Muslims from Somalia, or Indians, or whatever.
And it's just like, what does this mean?
I don't know. Yeah, that's very confusing for me as an American, as an Asian American to read.
So, yeah, you know, if people are offended by Oriental, they really need to grow a thicker skin.
And it's funny how you say Asian-American, Asian being a race and America being a country.
It's a bit of an apples and oranges kind of situation, right?
I mean, you're kind of jamming two things together.
One is sort of genetic biology and the other is a somewhat philosophical structure for a country.
It's just kind of interesting. Yeah, it's a little vague too because if you reverse the order, like American-Asian, what does that mean, right?
And I actually, personally, I don't like that term Asian American too much because it's kind of this cookie cutter category that...
You know, leftists have sort of gravitated towards recently, oh, the Asian-American experience, whereas, you know, Asians include, like, so many different ethnicities.
You can't just lump them into one ball.
Oh, no, no. I mean, it's like white.
The white experience is like, okay, well, what are we talking about here?
Are we talking, like, swarthy southern Italians?
Are we talking Nordic?
Are we talking Eastern European?
Are we talking about the Boers in South Africa?
Like, white, what the hell does that mean?
It doesn't mean anything. Yeah, exactly.
So anyway, just for context, I happen to marry in-group, but in my case, the exotic culture happens to be the same as my ancestral culture.
But I have friends who are in cross-ethnic relationships of every color, and they happen to be fans of your show as well.
I believe this includes the previous caller.
Yes, that's right. And so going back to the original remark, I'm kind of curious about the context behind it, and would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Well, I mean, you've got like half a sentence.
You know, I mean, first of all, you know, it's always interesting to me, like people sort of quote me back and I'm like, wow, that's an interesting way of putting it.
But if you would like me to sort of break down the statements, I'm sort of happy to.
But I just, you know, this sort of quote of half a sentence from some show in the past, you know, it's not doesn't give a lot of context, but I will sort of break it down.
As far as I see.
So diversity, by here, what I mean is diversity wherein there are significant language and cultural differences, right?
So before you have kids, diversity is a hell of a lot easier and a lot more fun in a lot of ways.
But when you have kids, We're good to go.
And so when you're young, you don't have a freshly spawned human mind which you have to impress objective values and virtues on.
And so it's more fun, right?
You don't have the challenge of sending your kids to a school wherein there are 12 different religions.
Because if you say, well, you know, Jesus is the one true way and God is, and you're a Christian, you send your kid off to school and they come across a bunch of other religions, and those kids are all told that, well, their religion is the truth and their religion is the way and your kid is a heathen who's going to hell or whatever it's going to be, right? So diversity, before you start raising kids...
And, you know, your kids are kind of playing out there in the neighborhood.
Now, clearly, if everyone in the neighborhood kind of believes the same stuff, then your kids can go and play.
And what happens is, because you all believe the same stuff, you can parent each other's children, right?
So if it's a Catholic neighborhood, well, the parents all up and down the street are going to feel comfortable knowing what the standards and sort of scriptural requirements and exhortations are for the kids who are coming over to play at their place, right? But if you have a bunch of different religions and different cultures, not only are there language barriers, which are a huge pain in the ass, and they destroy communities.
I mean, it's just too exhausting.
You can't learn 12 different languages so you can have a bake sale on your street.
It's just not worth it, right? And you also don't know how necessarily you're going to deal with or, quote, discipline kids.
How are you going to be an authority figure to kids?
Who come from a very different culture, a very different belief system, which is going to have some opposition to your own culture and belief system.
It just becomes... So diversity is kind of cool when you're young.
You get to meet people from different cultures and different countries and speak different languages sometimes and have different histories.
And it's like being a localized, bring the world to me kind of archaeologist or anthropologist.
And it's interesting and it's neat and it's fun.
But when you start to raise kids, I mean, it's really, really tough.
Like, I mean, let's say, I mean, I hope that you will, and you become a dad, and you have a bunch of kids or whatever.
Let's say you want to homeschool your kids, and let's say you have a neighbor who is from the same culture, same sort of background, have the same general idea set.
Then you're probably going to feel pretty comfortable with that neighbor being...
or sort of pseudo teacher for your kid, right?
But if your neighbor is, you know, there are 12 people living in a house and they come from Somalia and they don't speak English, are you sending your kid over there?
Well, no, it's not out of any sort of necessarily any paranoia and it's just like, I, it's a bridge too far, you know?
Like, it's just, how am I going to know?
And this is why this cocooning happens, and this is why this book called Bowling Alone is really well worth reading about how diversity just completely destroys communities, and everybody just cocoons and stays in and watches TV. And as diversity has risen, as so has obesity, because people just aren't out as much anymore.
So, as far as...
This is why I say sort of young people.
They've got time on their hands because diversity is time-consuming.
When you're young, especially if you're in school, man, I remember what it was like.
You've got time and time and time.
Class is 10 hours a week or 15 hours a week, and you just have a lot of time.
And when you have a lot of time, it's cool to explore new things.
But when you become a parent and you're working full-time and so on, you don't have time.
You know, like, I mean, particularly if your kids are young, I mean, your days feel like you're shot out of a cannon like Wile E. Coyote without a helmet.
And at the end of the day, you just splat into your bed and you pass out.
It's just like... Like Mach 12.
And you just, you don't have time.
Now, when you don't have time, then adapting to and learning the standards of other cultures and like, oh, you know, I mean, it'd be nice, but I don't have any time.
I got so much to do.
And so this youth and time.
Now, the banging people from exotic cultures and so on.
Well, sure. I mean, having, like, dating and having sex with people from different races and different cultures.
Yeah. I mean, there are some people. It's not a fetish thing.
It's just, you know, it's interesting.
It's different. But having a girlfriend in college is different from having a wife you raise children with, right?
And so if you're going to marry far outside your own culture, far outside your own language base, then it becomes complicated to raise children.
Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, go ahead. And we're drawing a distinction between...
Culture and ethnicity.
Like, say, people marrying outside their ethnicity, but they have a very close culture.
Like, they share a lot of cultural values.
Well, here's the question, though.
And let me ask you this, Ian.
Do you know people who have different ethnicities, but the same culture?
Uh... I can think of people who...
No, no, I think of. No, no.
I can imagine a robot from the future.
It doesn't mean that I'm going to get my breakfast tonight.
But do you know people who have different ethnicities but the same culture?
I would say that they share...
A large subset of culture, as far as language goes, you know, living in a big city, you know, being accustomed to the big city life, but it's not 100% the same culture.
No, no, because what you're saying is that you have a value called diversity, right?
And that is not a singular value.
That is a lack of value.
Diversity is a lack of value.
And it doesn't mean that it's automatically a negative, but what I mean by that is, if you say to me, do you want pasta, meat, or fish for dinner?
And I say, I don't care.
What I'm saying is, I don't value one more than the other.
It doesn't matter to me. I don't care.
So my expression of diversity for dinner, that's fine.
That I won't value any meal more than any other meal.
That is an expression of a lack of value, right?
And so if you say, well, you know, I know an Oriental and a Black person, and they both value diversity, what that means is that there aren't values that they consider important enough to really build a wall.
Oh, okay. Well, actually, I mean, so the concrete example I'm thinking of is that there are, you know, it's an inter-ethnic relationship, but They're both Trump supporters.
And the core values that they share that are reflected in their politics, they have a set of values that they share.
And what are the ethnicities or the races of the couple?
The man is white and the woman is black.
Right. Yes.
Woman is black. And they're both Trump supporters, right?
Correct. I mean, I know that there's lots of people whose heads are spinning at the idea that Trump is a cultural touchstone, but let's just, you know, we'll go with that for a moment, you know?
There's the entire history of Western civilization, and then there's the current president.
Okay. Now, if the woman is black and she's a Trump supporter, what's her relationship to the black community as a whole?
You know, I mean, I just talked to Bob for a while, and I've heard some things, murmurings coming out of the black community that black Trump supporters not always...
Everybody's favorite person to sit next to at a dinner.
Um, yeah, I think, um, well, uh, from what I know that it's kind of, you know, maybe not all her family's in agreement with her political position, you know, it's, it's, uh, but, uh, yeah, I think she would, as far as, you know, statistics go, she would be an unusual case.
Right, right, right.
And so, her parents, her family are on board with what she's saying, or respectful of what she's saying, or is there a conflict around that that you know of?
I know this is different. Yeah, so, and I only got a hint that there is some political disagreement, but I don't know the extent of it.
Right. Now...
When it comes to biracial children, do you know much about some of the challenges that they face?
Uh... Me, like a...
Oh, wait, this specific couple or just in general?
No, no, sorry, just in general.
Oh, um...
You know, I can only speak to a little bit of what...
Well, and this is just, you know, it's just sort of an anecdote, just observing that they might, like, for example, I know of an example of someone who is a child of, you know, white and Oriental parents, and they want to, for example, like, they sort of deny their Oriental heritage and want to identify as white.
And then there are, of course, you know, opposite examples and such.
But as far as broader challenges, no, no, I would say I'm not an expert on how to characterize those.
Well, it's worth looking up, right?
And again, it's a bell curve, right?
So there are lots of exceptions to the rule, but there are challenges.
For biracial kids, sometimes health issues, mental health issues, sometimes to do with identity issues.
And you know that there is generally, you know, as Muhammad Ali said right back in the day, you know, the blue bird flies with the blue bird and the red bird flies with the red bird and birds of a feather flock together and so on.
And you've probably heard of the lunchroom test and so on, that if there isn't a specific effort To mingle different ethnicities, they tend to gather with other similar ethnicities or the same ethnicity, and the blacks will eat with the blacks, and the Asians will eat with the Asians, and the Orientals will eat with the Asians, and so on.
And it's the same thing in prisons.
It's the same thing in churches and so on, that, you know, like 80% of churches in America are 80% white or 80% black.
And there is just this...
And again, it's not so much when people are young, mingling and so on is cool and interesting, but when people get older, they get busy, and you need...
Culture is a great shortcut.
It is a massive efficiency, like language.
If you and I had to have this conversation through translators, you understand that it would be pretty exhausting, right?
The fact that we both speak English is really why this conversation is able to happen.
Sure. And so there are significant problems for biracial kids.
Some of them may be genetic and some of them, I'm sure, are simply like not quite feeling like they have a tribe.
You know, we're a tribal species, right?
You understand that, right? I mean, this is sort of how we evolved.
We're a tribal species. And, you know, genetic works, geneticism and evolution works, fundamentally evolution in particular works because of genetic proximity in-group preference, right?
I mean, in that I'm, you know, I'm sure your kids, when you have them, will be lovely.
I'm gonna care about mine more than yours, and you're gonna care about yours more than mine, right?
There's just this genetic proximity preference.
That's kind of how evolution works and how tribalism works.
And it's kind of funny how we sort of imagine that we can just take the entire, you know, 150,000 plus years of human evolution, which is a hell of a lot of evolution, And just make it not so.
You know, the Marxists have this fantasy that you can create, like the Marxist man, the communist man, the new man, the man who is not driven by any economic incentives whatsoever and just works passionately for the good of the collective and has no in-group preference and no preference for more profit, for more work, and it's just this sort of blank, dull slate of Soviet propaganda that you can create this new man who's completely divorced from history.
I think that it may be possible in the future that we think of this diversity stuff as similar in some ways to the idea that you can just create a new Soviet man completely divorced from everything to do with evolution.
The idea that we can create, you know, seamlessly functioning multi-ethnic societies Which goes against the entire history of human evolution.
And please understand, I'm happy to have this chat with you, but it is kind of weird that we think we can just design from a blank slate entire human evolution.
Like, dogs are pack animals, and wolves are pack animals, and cats are not.
And it's like we can just... Throw everything together and everything's going to be fine.
And again, I think if we had a free society, that would be much more possible, much more applicable.
But, you know, we do happen to have this tribal history, this tribalistic history, which shows up again and again in the contemporary world.
Muslims vote for Muslims.
Hispanics vote for Hispanics.
Blacks vote for blacks, right?
I mean, every group has its in-group preferences, except for whites, you know, who I think are learning differently as time goes forward.
But that is more or less, I think, if I'm sort of summing it up, that's where I was coming from.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. Fair enough.
Let's see. I think...
Well, I found myself kind of re-reviewing your Fall of Rome show and trying to think about examples of, well, I mean, their multiculturalism, you know, the Goths coming into Rome, not really assimilating from culture, causing instability leading to the fall.
But wasn't...
I mean, that was an example, though, like in earlier times, The Romans, weren't they ethnically diverse, but they had a strong sense of what was Roman culture, especially, say, in the Republican times?
No, they weren't ethnically diverse.
Hmm. I mean, or the degree to which they were ethnically diverse was, you know, like slaves and citizens.
But the, you know, the sort of Roman, I mean, it wasn't even Italian.
It was Roman, right?
Like, one city, right?
I mean, it was not ethnically diverse.
It grew more ethnically diverse as the empire spread, right?
Because as the empire spread, you absorb more and more people into your culture, and it didn't work at all.
And the fall of Rome wasn't even multi-ethnic.
It was multicultural.
Because the Romans were whites.
And the Germans who, for want of a better phrase, the barbarians who invaded, were white, right?
I mean, they weren't taken over by people from Somalia.
So whites invaded whites.
And this is why, I mean, the whole whites thing doesn't really matter.
You know, if I say, oh, you know, Japan is at war with Korea, and it's like, well, you know, it's just Orientals fighting Orientals.
What's the difference? It's like, oh, there's a lot.
There's a very, very big difference.
It's a very big difference indeed, right?
There's a huge difference there. Huge difference, right?
And so I wouldn't ever imagine saying anything like that.
So this was multicultural in a way, and you could say, well, you know, there are genetic differences between the Romans and the Germans and so on for sure.
So... It was not multicultural to begin with.
It became more multicultural as things went along, and it ended up being destroyed because people no longer valued the same independence, the same free spirit, right?
You get a sort of monoculture that creates a significant amount of wealth, and then other cultures want in on that wealth, and in return for votes, People will be given, will give those people suffrage, right?
Like, I mean, like, if you look at Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, he gave amnesty to huge numbers of Hispanics in California.
I was going to say Mexico, it seems.
It could become part of Mexico again.
Who knows, right? Who knows? Could just go independent, and then the wall will have to go east, west, and north.
But, so... When he gave citizenship in return for votes, he changed the composition of the state and turned it...
I mean, this was the state that gave Ronald Reagan and Nixon, right?
I mean, it's a very Republican state.
And then you give amnesty to a whole bunch of illegal immigrants from Mexico and other places, and then it becomes a Democrat state, right?
So I sort of want to clarify something about multiculturalism as well.
I view Europe as multicultural.
My wife comes from a Greek background.
I come from an Irish and German background, more culturally Irish than German.
And so that to me, I mean, I have a multicultural marriage.
Not multiracial, but multicultural marriage.
So I think multiculturalism is great.
I think that the chafing and the friction and the challenge and the competition between different cultures is great.
Multi-ethnic societies, well, the data is not good.
The data is not good.
You know, I think it was either Singapore or Hong Kong's mayor who said, well, you know, you bring a bunch of racists in and everyone just ends up voting along racial lines and your whole unity falls apart.
It's like, well, I guess that's a guy who's been reading his history.
And the other thing that's true as well...
Particularly in Japan, to some degree as well, strongly in China.
It's like, well, why isn't Japan taking all these migrants?
Because in Japan, race realism is openly talked about.
The late Canadian psychologist who talked about the R versus K selection, Philip Rushton.
He would regularly write back and forth with people in Japan, scientists in Japan, anthropologists in Japan, social scientists in Japan and in China, and they're like, well, yeah, of course, we know all about the IQ stuff, we know all about the racial differences stuff, and this informs all of our policy, this is why we don't do immigration, we understand it all, it's very clear, and this, of course, is the price of not talking about it as, well, Japan...
You know, oh, well, Japan is running out of people.
It's like, yeah, but they've got a hell of a lot of robots, so maybe that's okay, right?
And of course, it's just, it's a, right, and Japan still has its socialist hell set up to some degree after the end of the Second World War by the occupying powers, but they didn't have their, the German guy we talk about in the fall of Germany who helped restore the free market to Germany after the end of the Second World War.
They didn't have that in Japan, so they Ended up with this central planning, zombie bank, interest rate manipulation, money printing garbage, which, you know, has infected the rest of Europe as well.
So, yeah, I mean, I think multiculturalism can have wonderful benefits, but where multiculturalism and multi-ethnicity try to work together, that seems to be a combination where there's no data that I know of to support that it's productive in the long run or positive at all.
I mean, what would it take to get a multi-ethnic society to work?
Would it just be, you know, stronger educational efforts?
No, no, no, no. Two things you need, and they're both related.
And number one is you just need equality before the law.
You cannot have any racially based laws.
You can't. The moment you have racially based laws, it's the same as having laws that favor one religious denomination or Over another.
If you have laws that favor one religious denomination over another, then all of the religions are going to be clamoring at the state trying to get control of those laws.
You need separation of race and state.
Complete and total separation of race and state.
That's the only chance we have for this to work, even remotely.
I'm not saying it's a fantastic chance, but it's the only chance.
And it's what we have to do.
You have to go through your law books line by line.
You say, if there is a law here that mentions anything about race, anything about quotas, anything about affirmative action, anything about set-asides, anything about any kind of preference, like we're going to assign this contract only to a black-owned business, like you go through your laws.
Wherever the laws touch on race, you strike them from the books.
You have to have a race and colorblind legal system.
You need 100% property rights.
You need to not have laws that say, well, you've got to move this group here, and we're going to give incentive to move this group here, and we've got to shuffle these people around.
You also have to have, of course, an educational system that is not based on property rights, sorry, not based upon property values and on real estate taxes, right?
Like the annual taxes you pay for your home, right?
Property taxes. So, I mean, those are tall orders.
So, number one, you absolutely need to have a race-blind legal system.
Race and gender, too, for that matter, but that's a whole other topic.
So you have a true system of equality under the law.
No laws favoring any race or gender.
That is equality. And through that process, you also need to push back against people who scream racism all the time.
I mean, you want to get a taste of that?
Just go and look at my presentation called The Fall of Puerto Rico.
And, man, you know, hey, whitey, racist!
You know, it's a low IQ, not an argument.
And if, of course, right now, people scream racism because it's highly profitable.
There's a whole race industry.
There's a whole race industry.
The racial egalitarianism complex is like the military-industrial complex, but...
But closer, and sometimes it seems even more feral.
But, yeah, so you have to push back against false accusations of racism.
And it is, you know, particularly in America, it's the mark of Cain, right?
I mean, you get called a racist, and if people believe it, I mean, you're toast, right?
And so you need to have equality before the law, and you need to have a social pushback That calling someone a racist who's not a racist is an egregious action that requires immediate apology and restitution.
If someone calls someone else some horrible name, like accuses them of some crime or some bad thing that is unsupported, Well, you know, even if it's a slow, grudging, opaque and oblique J.K. Rowling, I apologize to the family that Trump hugged their child, but I said he didn't.
How about apologizing to Trump?
I bet that's not going to happen, right?
Hard to believe she was a single mom.
But, yeah, so we have to have a pushback, ostracism against those who repeatedly accuse others of racism with no clear evidence.
And you have to have equality before Cool.
Yeah, that's a tall order.
I mean, that's the cultural war that we're fighting right now, which is, you know, to...
To get people to come back to their senses, to value free speech, and to just not hide behind the name-calling and the labels.
But you did this too, Z, right?
To be frank, I want to be as honest with you as I am with every other listener.
Because your remark comes across as an insult to some of my friends.
Right? I mean, do you really think I was insulting your friends?
No, no.
Did your friends say that they were insulted by what I said?
Yes. And did they listen to the whole show or just this fragment?
They listened to the whole show.
That fragment particularly stood out.
Well, sure. But I mean, that's in the context of an entire argument that I think when you hear it, It puts things in context, right?
It may be crassly expressed at times, but, you know, I mean, I'm also trying to get a general audience, right?
So I'm going to be entertaining at every level of people's sophistication.
But the remark comes across as an insult to some of my friends who are in an inter-ethnic relationship.
That is...
That bothered me when you said that.
I'll just be honest with you. Maybe you're right or whatever, but it just, you know, it just bothered me because...
When I say that, as I make the argument sense, I think it makes some sense, right?
Yeah, so, well, I mean, I apologize that my remark kind of came across as a distortion of what you were saying, or as a slight mischaracterization of what you were saying.
Well, no, listen, it's just, look, if they have an argument against what I'm saying, fantastic.
But the fact that they would say what Steph said was insulting to me, that's not an argument.
Like, let's say you say, You know, that evil murdering cult is full of bad people and the bad people then say, that's insulting to me.
What would you say? That's not an argument.
It's not an argument, right?
I mean, I'm hurt.
I'm sad. I'm upset.
I feel insulted.
You know? I mean, I've been told my whole life that I have white privilege and I'm an evil patriarch, right?
That I'm sexist for breathing and racist for breathing.
And then people come and say, well, I'm so delicate that I feel insulted by something that's taken out of context, that half a sentence from a staff show, you know what I mean?
It's like, make an argument.
But if you want to lower...
You say you want this sort of multiculturalism thing to work, then hurt feelings, not an argument, right?
Right. And, you know, you have to have enough confidence.
If you're married to someone that you love, And when I say, well, you know, young people, sure, they like to have sex across cultures and sometimes across races and so on, and it's different from actually having to raise a family with someone.
If you're not secure enough in your personal choices, in the choice of who you have sex, Chosen to marry and raise children with that you feel insulted because I talk about it's easier to date across cultures and more fun to date across cultures before you start raising children.
I don't think the problem is in the comment of mine, right?
And this is not particular to any ethnic thing.
I would nag anyone about this, you know.
Like, you should know enough.
Having listened to this show, I would put the responsibility on you.
If your friends say, well, that's insulting to me.
Say, well, that's not an argument.
I'm happy to bring your message to the guy, but don't just tell me...
Don't have me tell Steph that he just hurt your feelings, right?
I mean, that's not an argument, right?
You've got to be wise enough and you've got to be close enough to your friends to say, you know, the fact that your feelings are hurt by some guy's podcast where he's riffing on something in the heat of the moment.
I mean, come on. You know, what is your actual argument here?
Right, right. Well, I'll have an interesting conversation with them afterwards.
Yeah, listen, and then have them call in.
You know, if they feel insulted, I'd be very curious as to what they want to say.
So, all right. Well, thanks. I really appreciate the call.
It was a lot of fun. And feel free to call back in.
And yeah, if your friends want to call in and tell me how insulting I am, I'd certainly like to hear it.
Sounds good. I'm sure they'll take you up on camera.
All right. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. All right.
Thanks. Alright, up next we have Robert.
Robert wrote in and said, Do you agree or disagree?
Also, what is the cause of racism in humans?
Not why we have racism.
What specific mechanism, that is the nature of humanity, which causes all humans to have racism?
For example, if we all went Lord of the Flies and had a bunch of babies on an island and raised them with unbiased robots, would babies grow to be racist?
Or after having enough years slash generations, would sooner or later you start having racism?
If so, what causes it?
That's from Robert.
Hey, Robert, how you doing? Doing okay.
Actually, can I take two seconds to gush?
Yeah, please. As long as that doesn't mean you're going to pee on air, but yes, please go ahead.
Last time we talked, I just wanted to say thank you.
You asked exactly the right question I needed to hear.
It was right at where dogma meets reality, and I admit I blinked.
And I just wanted to thank you for showing me something that I didn't realize I was stuck on.
What do you mean in particular?
Oh, I'll summarize our last conversation.
I came online and I said, What is the minimum amount of government-run socialism needed for society to survive?
And you said, zero!
And I said, yes, yes, but no, let's get serious.
And somewhere along the line, I started going, look, I came to talk to you about socialism.
Why are you going on about charities?
What do charities have to do with socialism?
Yes. Yes, I get it now.
I... Oddly enough, it was your video on privatizing the EPA that clicked everything for me.
Ah, okay. Good.
Well, I'm glad. I'm glad that was helpful.
I just wanted to say thank you. No, I appreciate that.
And listen, I know that sometimes I can be a really annoying roadblock in people's particular patterns of thought, and if it's any consolation, I do it to myself a lot as well.
I know what the feeling is like, and I appreciate you bringing that up.
You must have felt like you were bashing your head against a wall, because in retrospect, I'm sitting here and going, Wow, I couldn't understand you.
No, no, it's hard to change your mind about important things, so I have no problem with that at all.
But to move on to your question, and thanks for your comment there, Robert, but to move on to your question, what is the cause of racism in humans?
But I need to know what you mean by the word racism.
Um, stereotyping.
The specific mechanism that results in people having, you know, a stereotypical knee-jerk reaction when seeing a blank.
Be it white, black, whatever.
Well, okay, okay, but stereotyping is another word that's not hugely helpful because is it rational or not?
Sometimes it is, sometimes it would not be.
Okay, but we need to differentiate between these two things, right?
Okay. All right, no, I'm with you.
I'm with you. To be honest, I wrote up a whole thesis on it that I sent to you, but it was incredibly long, so I wouldn't expect you to go over it.
Yeah, no, I mean, because if we're going to say that there are rational aggregates that you can sort of come, rational conclusions that you can come to about aggregates of population, that's one thing.
But if we're going to say there are Irrational aggregates or irrational prejudices that you can have, we need to separate those two.
And let me sort of give you an example. When I was a kid in England, I had mice and I had hamsters.
And I wanted to take a hamster to go upstairs in the apartment building.
We just lived, so the apartments came off a sort of central flight, so I could just walk up the stairs and be at another.
It wasn't like, you know, now you have to go down the end of the road.
So there was this old French couple...
I guess they were old. No, they were old, like even by my standards now, almost 51.
So this old French couple who lived upstairs, and I wanted to bring my new hamster up to show them, because they'd have me up for tea, and we'd chat, and nice, nice couple.
So I brought my little hamster.
I was like, I don't know, seven or eight years old.
I brought my little hamster up to go and show them.
And I knocked on the door, and I opened, they opened the door, and I held up my hamster and said, look!
And the woman screamed, Ran back and kicked the door shut.
And I saw her just like collapsing into a chair that they had just in the front hallway.
And nothing happened.
Like the door was... My hamster, I remember they jumped in my hand.
It was so loud.
So I went back downstairs and I remember thinking, okay, that's different, right?
Because I hadn't seen this before. Now, it was more even so, you know, the cliche or the stereotype that when there's a mouse...
In the house, like the men get the broomsticks and the women jump on the chairs.
And it was more than that.
And now, of course, like when I got older, I realized, you know, that this was a French couple who'd probably been in the war, Second World War, that is.
And in the Second World War, when France had been bombed and the sewers had backed up and there were bodies in the street, I have no doubt that rats had a field day.
Like that the rats were everywhere.
The rats were like chewing dead bodies in the street.
The rats were attacking babies in the cribs.
The rats were everywhere.
In these horrifying situations.
So, you know, I'm like, here, here's a, quote, rat.
And they're like screaming, like, because their level of post-traumatic disorder mind fry regarding rodents was probably extraordinarily high.
And they apologized, and, you know, we stayed friends, of course, right?
So, for them, they look at their hamstring.
And they judge the hamster like feral, flesh-eating rats loosed in a hellscape of bombing, death, war, murder, and destruction, right?
So it is an irrational extrapolation to go from my little pet hamster to the rodents that were eating the eyeballs off their neighbors, right?
Yes, yes. However...
When they were in France, being bombed, you know, they're many years dead.
It's like, here I am, summoning them back to life to live in this show forever.
Immortality has been achieved.
But when they saw rats in the bombed out hellscape of France in 1945 or 1944, they had every right to judge those rats as dangerous.
They may have been diseased.
They may have had fleas and ticks and so on.
And of course, you get one bite from a rat when there's no medicine around, no doctors.
The hospital is bombed out.
And I mean, you literally can just die from one rat bite.
You might even die from one flea jumping off the rat onto your body and burrowing in and giving you some god-awful disease, right?
I mean, that's how the bubonic plague spread.
So for them to have a fear of rats makes perfect sense to me.
Oh, yes.
And it's a survival mechanism because those rats, not all of them are dangerous.
Some of them were dangerous. But to have a fear of my little hamster that wouldn't hurt a fly, that's different.
So I just, I want to differentiate between what your use of the term racism is.
Sorry, go ahead. Okay, well, no, I have an example.
You may think of something to define it better, but in regards to what yours is, they have a set response that's very sane in the original environment, and now they have a new environment where they have been unable to move past it at least immediately.
So there's at least this whole panic response until their rational mind can take over.
So if you were to apply this to racism, I don't think even her screaming and running away would be racist.
That's clearly like some level of post-traumatic stress.
And I didn't blame her for it.
I actually kind of rolled my eyes.
It's like, okay, I get it. They were terrified of rats or whatever.
And I was just like, oh, now we have to go through this whole big thing where they have to apologize and so on.
And we did.
And, you know, it turned out to be fine.
But Mai was just like, okay, I get it, you know, like rats.
But now we've got to go through this whole thing of, oh, I need to sit down and explain it to you.
And it's like, you know, like... But this was a pure survival mechanism for them in one situation, right?
Right. Oh, no. Just as a point, there are people who I have had arguments with who would say that if you applied that to, say, a black person instead of a rat, it would be racism.
But I don't believe it is.
But this is what caused me to start having this argument.
You have to go back to the facts.
So if you judge a group that acts the same as another group...
If you judge one of those groups as worse, then that's prejudice, right?
Yes. Right? I don't know, like, I mean, there's this myth that red-headed people are hot-tempered, right?
Just because their hair looked like flames, like in Hercules, right?
Like the Lord of the Underworld.
I don't know if it's true, but let's just say it's not true, right?
Okay. And so if...
I say redheaded people are hot-tempered and angry, right?
Well, they're not.
So that would be prejudice, right?
Right. Now, on the other hand, right, and I mentioned these statistics before, right?
660,000 crimes of interracial violence in the US in 2013 between blacks and whites.
Blacks were the perpetrators 85% of the time.
A black person is 27 times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa.
So, If this statistic, which is true, it's not perfect, but it's accurate enough, then if you have a young white man and a young black man both walking down the street, it is rational for the white man to be 27 times more scared than the black man.
Because those are the statistics that the black man is 27 times more likely to attack the white person.
Now, of course, the likelihood he's not going to attack you at all.
But in terms of the anxiety you feel, the idea that the black person and the white person are equally likely to attack each other is simply false.
Correct. The FBI has been keeping race statistics for a long time.
And when it comes to white males raping black females, the numbers are so low, it's 0 to 10.
But if you look at black males raping white females, it's huge, the number.
Which means that if you have, right, two different genders, two different races walking down the street, the black woman has almost nothing to fear from the white man.
However, the white woman statistically has a lot more to fear from the black man.
I agree.
And that would be a rational amount, if it was 27 times more, if you could give it a number, would be a correct amount of fear, I guess.
So that wouldn't be racism.
My example would be, it's from a joke that I heard from a comedian.
There's a woman sitting on a plane, and the comedian's a black guy, and he gets on the plane, and he starts walking down the aisle, and she picks up her purse and holds it protectively, as if she was afraid that he was going to steal it.
Now, we don't know this woman's history.
That may have just been that first few seconds, that impulse where I have learned to grab my purse in the presence of black men walking past, looking a certain way.
That is not her personality.
That is her reflex.
We all have that couple of second reflex whether you like it or not.
If I throw something at your face, you're going to reflexively put your hand up.
That doesn't mean you hate rocks.
You just don't want to get hit in the face.
So, now, where I think the racism would be in this case is if she continued to hate him, or scowl, or look, you know, judgmental at him as he walked past.
That first few seconds, I'll give anybody a few seconds, because I don't know what your history is.
But after you've had seconds to sit there and look at me...
No, no, but she doesn't need to have...
Sorry to interrupt. Okay.
She doesn't need to have a personal history.
Okay. Okay. Right?
So, as I mentioned before, if New York City were all white, the robbery rate would drop by 81%.
Okay.
And the question is, is it the color of his skin that she is responding to, or is it other markers that he has?
So, for instance, if the wonderful Dr.
Thomas Sowell is walking down in his tweed three-piece suit, With a copy of...
Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal.
And a briefcase.
And he's walking down the subway.
He's a black guy. He's walking down the subway car.
Is she going to be reflexively clutching her purse?
What if Morgan Freeman walks down for some reason, walks down the middle of a subway car, are all of the white and oriental people...
Going to be clutching at their purses.
He's a black guy? Well, no, of course not.
Well, they're clutching their purpose to open them to get an autograph.
Although I'd rather have an autograph in Seoul than Morgan Freeman.
By the way, I love that example because I've been using something similar as my argument to say, this is not racism.
This is judging somebody based on their appearance.
If it is a white guy...
With like crazy tattoos and a mohawk and he's sniffing glue as he lurches his way.
Right? One is Dr.
Thomas Sowell with a newspaper and a tweed three-piece suit with the elbow patches.
He's like, I don't know, makes Methuselah look like his younger brother these days.
Good for him. Good for living long.
But you got this elderly black academic walking down, and then there's this crazy, punky-looking, weird, like he's got so many piercings, he looks like he fell down a flight of stairs holding a tackle box, and he's sniffing glue, and he's like snarling, right?
Right? I mean, who are you going to be more scared of?
You're going to be more scared of the white guy because of the markings, because of the social markings.
I don't know if you remember Bernie Goetz.
Bernie Goetz showed up in a Billy Joel song, right?
So Bernie Goetz was a guy who felt that he was about to be robbed by black guys in the subway, and he shot them.
And everybody went nuts.
And later, as far as I remember, the black guys were like, oh yeah, we were totally going to rob the guy.
Oh, yeah. No, I remember Bernie Katz.
I remember that. I was around for that.
Right. So, it is not a question of racism, because what's fundamentally being judged is not the color of the skin.
It's not the color of the skin.
It is the statistical likelihood Of being attacked, which is many times higher if it's a black youth, it's higher if it's a Hispanic youth, and it's lower if it's an Oriental youth.
Lower than white.
So if a young white guy and a young Japanese guy both come walking down the subway, people are going to clutch their purse more around the white guy than the Japanese guy.
Now, if you happen to have a fully animatronic sex robot on the subway, you're going to be more nervous about something untoward happening from the Japanese guy.
Hey, get off my sex robot.
Go make some babies. But people are processing statistical realities, and they're processing social markers.
So if you're a young man, and you dress like a thug, and you swagger around, and you look belligerently at people, and Oh, my God, they're so racist for clutching at their purse.
It's like, oh, come on.
Come on. You don't get to dress up as a lion and then blame the zebras for edging away.
I mean, this is silly, right?
So, just to paraphrase, because I'm...
Are you basically saying you don't think there's a lot of racism?
No, no, what are you talking about?
We're just talking about definitions at the moment.
What are you jumping out of there for?
Oh, okay, okay. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. I'm...
This is... Sorry.
No, I agree with everything you're saying.
And you know the argument from the bell curve.
The argument from the bell curve.
Oh, yeah. The argument, just for those who don't know, and people should read the bell curve.
It's a very powerful book.
But the argument from the bell curve is saying that it's not that there's racism against blacks.
It's that capitalism pays by IQ on aggregate.
And so the higher IQ, the more money you're likely to make.
And I'm very much briefening and paraphrasing here.
But... Capitalism, the free market, pays by IQ, and this is why Orientals make the most money.
Oh, Jews. Ashkenazi Jews in the West make the most money because they have the highest IQs, followed by East Asians or Orientals, followed by whites, followed by Hispanics, followed by blacks.
And it's not that blacks make less money because of racism, it's because blacks have an average IQ of 85 or so, and everyone who has an average, every group that has an average of 85 IQ makes about a...
As much money, or as little money.
And everybody who's got an IQ of 115 makes about the same amount of money.
It's just that because IQ is not evenly distributed between the races, races end up making different amounts of money on average, right?
Gotcha. It's not racism.
I mean, it's IQism, if you want to call it that at all.
And it only appears as racism because IQ is not evenly distributed between the races.
Gotcha. All right, all right.
So... But as far as racism goes, there's massive amounts of racism.
Massive amounts of racism.
Western society, particularly America, but increasingly now in Europe, it runs on racism.
And it runs on anti-white racism.
Massive amounts of racism.
Because if you blame whites...
For IQ differences between the ethnicities, that is incredibly racist.
It is like blaming Japanese people for height differences between the races and saying that the only reason that the races have different heights is because of Japanese fascist psychotic evil bigotry.
Blaming the natural distribution of the bell curve between the races on white racism is the only legitimized remaining racism that exists in the world.
Wow, so I'm talking about stereotyping, I'm not talking about racism.
Yeah, because look, the fact is that Blacks in America or around the world as a universal phenomenon are more likely to commit crimes.
Significantly, like not 10% or 20, like significantly more likely to commit crimes.
If you look at Black youths, Blacks 12-13% of the US population, male Blacks 6-7% of the population, young male Blacks 2-3% of the population, 51% of the murders, give or take, right?
Okay, that's a lot.
It's a very, very big difference.
Now, blaming that on white racism is the last remaining socially legitimate, praised racism that exists in the world.
Every other racism, every other form of racism is attacked and denounced, sometimes hysterically so, but anti-white racism.
Blaming whites For the at least significantly genetic disparity in IQ between races, blaming all of that on white racism is savagely racist against whites.
Savagely racist against whites.
So, wait a minute, just to ask here, do you think racism has to be institutionalized then?
Or no? Or do you...
Well, I mean, it sounds like to me that what I was actually talking about was stereotyping that racism with what I said.
Yeah, no. But it's not the fault of any group that ethnicities differ in IQ. It's not the fault of my daughter.
It's not your fault. It's not my fault.
It is not the fault of any group It's not the fault of Caucasians, it's not the fault of Blacks, it's nobody's fault.
You can blame Mother Nature if you want that racist bitch, right?
But it's not anyone's fault that these disparities occur.
But then to say that white people are evil because these disparities occur, that white people are racist because these disparities occur, that is racist.
Because Blacks are committing disproportionately more crime relative to their size in the population, and Orientals are committing disproportionately less crime relative to their share of the population.
So those are actually, you can make a case for a rational caution or a rational lack of caution based on numbers, based on statistics, based on data.
However, you cannot make a case that IQ disparities Exist because of white racism.
There is no rational, sane case to make that whites are racist, certainly not more than any other group, or that the reason that sub-Saharan Africans, sub-Saharan black Africans have an average IQ of 70 because of my eight-year-old daughter's white privilege.
I mean, you've got to be kidding me.
This makes voodoo look like physics.
So, ultimately, I think you're saying that the cause of racism is a desire for, well, money and power.
Well, I mean, yeah, of course.
I mean, it is, you know, the idea that differences in outcome arise from exploitation has been the Marxist thesis.
It's been translated into the realm of race.
That group differences result from exploitation.
Right? And all you do is take out the word exploitation, you dump in the word racism or sexism, if you want to talk about differences between men and women.
All group disparities result from bigotry of some kind.
All group disparities result from exploitation.
The reason why the capitalist is rich and his workers are poor is because he exploits them.
The reason why whites are rich and blacks are poor is because whites are racist.
The reason why men make more money than women is because everyone's...
Well, men are sexist, right?
Look, find a group disparity.
Blame it on exploitation and bigotry.
And you've solved nothing and you've made everything a thousand times worse.
Because you have a pretend answer.
You understand this is the same...
This exploitation narrative has the same relationship to group differences...
As superstition has to science.
It's a pretend answer that makes people stop looking.
And just like certain corrupt forms of religion, it's a highly profitable answer with entrenched economic interests that stand in the way of anyone looking and actually trying to find an answer.
I want to find an answer.
I want to try and solve these problems.
But just conjuring up this demon called white racism and thinking you've solved anything is bullshit.
And it stands in the way of actually solving these problems, which we're damn well going to have to do because we all got to live together.
And we can't live together if these differences, which are not the fault of any individual white person, are all just blamed on white racism.
You don't have an answer.
You might have a government check, but you don't have an answer.
You have a pretend answer, which is worse than no answer because you stopped looking.
And that... Is what I'm talking about now.
If you take out this, group differences are always the result of exploitation, bigotry, prejudice, racist, whatever, classism, bourgeois, control of the means of production, or whatever, capitalist exploitation.
If you take group differences, say, okay, well, what is the difference?
Why are there group differences?
And don't give me this exploitation bullshit, because that stuff's been tried for 150 years, and it has resulted in the deaths of close to 100 million people, just counting communism a lot.
Look at Chicago. So, say, okay, why are there group differences?
One answer, exploitation, bigotry, racism, bourgeois exploitation, capitalist, whatever, right?
Another answer is there are group differences because of IQ. People say, why do you talk about IQ? Because it is an answer that fits.
It is an answer that is scientific.
It is an answer that allows us some possibility of fixing things.
It is an answer that is valid.
It is an answer that explains why the black-run cities are doing so badly, why the black-run countries are doing so badly.
It explains why the Chinese succeed everywhere they go.
It explains why the Japanese succeed everywhere they go.
It explains why the first wave of immigrants is fantastic from lower IQ countries and the second wave is not great because of regression to the mean.
It explains why you see these numbers over and over and over again.
It explains income. It explains educational levels.
It simply explains.
It's like moving the sun to the center of the solar system.
It makes sense.
And we need to look at the facts.
We need to look at science. IQ has been described as pretty much the only certainty that's ever come out of a field that's sometimes random and subjective as psychology of the social sciences.
It is the one thing that comes out that makes sense and has the capacity to explain what's going on and give us the power to change it.
Relentlessly screaming racism at white people has not solved these problems.
It has made them worse.
So we must actually start Navigating by the stars, by the facts, by reality, by science, rather than by our hatred and resentment and prejudice always, always, always fueled by the leftists.
We must stop hating each other and start reasoning together.
We must stop exoriating each other and start searching for the common facts that can bring the real solutions.
Okay. I want to thank you because I think what you just explained to me is what I sent you the whole thesis about explicit and implicit memory is just proving why I'm not racist, but it doesn't explain racism.
Racism is the choice to exploit differences for power.
That is the cause.
I was explaining why I'm not.
No, racism is the excuse.
It's the cover. It's the quote justification.
I mean racism, that very term racism was fundamentally invented by the leftists in order to rile up problems.
See, for the leftists, capitalism can't succeed.
And because of IQ differences between genders, between ethnicities, because capitalism produces inequalities that are group-based, Then if the leftist, if the anti-capitalist can convince people that these inequalities are the result of prejudice and they wouldn't exist under socialism, Then he's got something to sell you, which is egalitarianism between races and genders.
And isn't that what's all, women only make 70% of that, right?
One of these statistics have been debunked so many times that most people with half a brain can do it in their sleep in a different language, a language they've never even spoken before.
So if the leftist can get you to say, well, there are group differences in the outcome of the free market, those group differences are a result of exploitation and bigotry, And you won't have exploitation and bigotry in a free market system.
Then you have something to sell to the people who do badly under capitalism as a result of IQ differences.
You have something to sell.
You sow resentment.
You sow a false hope.
You sow rage, anger, violence, hatred.
And you're selling something that isn't going to...
It's not going to fix.
It's not going to be fixed. It's not going to be solved.
It won't solve it.
Hatred doesn't change genetics.
I don't know, maybe it does epigenetically, but calling white people racist is not going to change the facts of brain volume.
It's not going to change the differences in white matter between the races.
It's not going to, screaming sexism isn't going to close the IQ gap between men and women that currently stands at like four to five IQ points.
And at the higher levels of IQ, there are almost no women.
Screaming sexism isn't We're going to solve these things.
And you understand, that is the real exploitation.
Taking lower IQ groups and saying you're exactly the same as everyone else, you're just exploited and people hate you.
That is the real exploitation.
That is the real. All of the, I mean, leftists, social justices always project, always project.
Whatever they're accusing you of, they're actually doing.
They go to the free market people and they accuse them of exploiting the workers.
No, no, no, no.
It is the leftists who are exploiting all the low IQ groups.
Workers in general are going to have lower IQs than bosses.
And again, this is not a moral valuation, although higher IQ people generally tend to be more moral.
But it's not a fundamental moral distinction at all.
It's just a fact.
Non-basketball players tend to be shorter than basketball players.
It's not a moral judgment, it's just a fact.
Right, right.
Okay, so racism is the excuse.
Yeah, racism is the label.
It is used to slander freedom.
It is used to slander the free market.
It is used to slander capitalism.
And it is used to stoke resentment among low IQ people against higher IQ people.
It's used to stoke rage, to rouse the rage and resentment of the masses.
Who then, what do they do?
And this is where the real hatred...
Look, lower IQ people, fantastic.
Love them. Love them. Seriously.
I mean, people, like... One of the things that I do is I try as hard as I can.
I work my fingers to the bone.
I think until my brain turns into molten lava puddling down through my ears to try and find ways to communicate complex philosophical ideas to people who aren't trained in philosophy and who aren't as smart as I am.
Please understand that there are people way smarter than me in physics and they've got to think of good ways to explain physics to me.
I mean, when I find somebody who explains quantum physics to me in a way I can understand, I kiss the hem of their garment.
Because they're really smart at it.
I'm not, but they can find ways to explain it to me.
That helps. So, I care about the lower IQ people.
I want to find ways to explain things to them that are really tough abstract concepts in ways that they can viscerally get and understand.
Fantastic. But if you see and identify lower IQ people and what you go down is you lie to them and you stoke up their resentments and you don't tell them the truth and you rouse their rage, what are they going to do?
Well, what they're going to do is what they did in Zimbabwe and Rhodesia and in North Korea and what they did in Venezuela and what they did all over the place is you're going to rouse the rage of the mob against the high IQ people, often the whites, And then what you're going to do is you're going to tell them to act and take back what's theirs and claim what's been stolen from them and rip back from the bourgeoisie, fat capitalist pigs everything that was stolen from them.
Go back. Go to Europe and take back what all the European colonists stole from you.
Yeah, because Africa was just so rich with the white shirt, right?
And then what happens is, look at Venezuela.
You drive... To smart people out of the country.
You drive the high IQ people out of the country.
And then what happens? Food production collapses.
Productivity collapses. Corruption increases.
Government inefficiency plummets.
And then what happens?
Who really cares about the low IQ people?
Those on the left? No.
Because what they do is smart people being in charge of the economy, has raised the standards of living, has increased the food production, and then they go in there and they sew their bullshit into the lower IQ people's ears.
The lower IQ people get really angry and scare off or drive off or sometimes even just outright kill the high IQ people.
And then the low IQ people starve.
That is not helping them.
That is unbelievably cruel.
Unbelievably vicious. And all of the sophists and the people who whisper all of this poison into the ears of the masses are demonic, are satanic, because they're creating a situation wherein people who don't have the capacity to outthink the sophists get lured like the children off the edge of the cliff from the Pied Piper.
They get lured off the cliff and it is exploitation and it is vicious and it is ugly and it is destructive and it is downright evil.
And I stand to protect the less intelligent.
It's not their fault.
It's not their fault.
We should take care of them.
We should be nice to them. We should help them.
We shouldn't fill their ears with lies about how they've just been stolen from and they're all these evil people who hate them and they should go and rip all of their gold back from these people's hands and take back what's theirs and they've been exploited and racism and sexism.
Oh my God, it's so wrong.
It's so destructive.
If you care about people, tell them the truth in ways they can understand.
You know what I found works?
I've been using this one a lot.
I say, it's okay to say something's evil.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to get somebody, when you describe something truly evil to them, to say it's evil.
And I've had people dance around that word, and then I said, no, it's okay to say something is evil.
Because I'm very subversive.
And when I can get somebody alone, away from the herd, I probe them a little to see whether or not they're going to flip out or not, and then I throw some ideas at them and talk to them, and One of the things that I throw at them is like, do you think this is evil when you describe baby murder and stuff like that?
And sometimes they go, oh, well, you know, because they don't want to offend.
And I say, it's okay to be judgmental.
It's okay to say something's evil.
And that's kind of why I'm asking about this topic here, because...
You know, I've run into the people, oh, you're just microaggressions, or it's just your subconscious telling.
You're secretly deep down inside racist.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not.
But then I come to the problem, well, saying you don't feel you're racist isn't an argument.
It's like, okay. No, it's easier than that.
Well, I'm going to prove that I'm not a racist.
Look, someone just sees you're secretly deep down racist.
You're saying, you just say, well, do you believe I'm racist because I'm white?
Yeah. And if they say, well, yeah.
It's like, well, can other groups be racist in the same category?
Can other groups just be called racist because they're black or because they're Mestizo or because they're Oriental?
Well, no. It's like, okay, so then you're just ascribing negative motives and intentions and a mindset to me because I'm white.
Goddamn racist. I've been there.
I have been there. All right, listen, man, I'm going to move on.
It's a long show. Hang on, no, I've got to move on.
It's a long show. I'm going to just take a short break and get something to drink because I've been firing up my voice, something fierce tonight.
Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
I appreciate the call in. I'm sure we'll talk again.
Okay, up next we have Renee and Manny.
They are husband and wife.
They wrote in and said, How do we seek relationships that can be enriching instead of ending up with people who rely too much on you when the relationship gets too comfortable?
Can a relationship that began and has continued with patterns of codependency be rescued, or is the original mismatch too much of a barrier to overcome?
That's from Rene and Manny.
Hey guys, how are you doing tonight?
Hi Steph, we're doing fine.
How are you? I'm well. And what do you mean by codependency?
Well, I feel like it means that the relationship might not always be be healthy and enriching because we might have come to rely too much of each other whether it's for income generation housework or emotional support that probably other people in healthy relationships can obtain that from themselves or from a circle of friends and stuff like that so that they don't become too much of a Let's say a drain on energy on the other partner so that the relationship is balanced in that way.
Right. And can you give me a specific example of where you think this codependency might be showing up?
Yeah, I think it would be better if you...
Okay, sure. Well, I feel like...
When we started around six years ago, we were living our separate lives and each of us had their own Goals for career, education and things like that.
And then say about four years ago we started a company together and so the energy was there so we're gonna go and do this and that together.
But you know slowly each of us starts to accommodate themselves on maybe what they do slightly better and the other sort of lets go when When their help might be needed.
So specifically, well now the company's been running for years and we each started with a client base, so to speak.
And I myself went into some rough times with losing some clients and I couldn't necessarily bring more clients back.
And so I retired into other projects which resulted into some resentment as far as Renee here will say, well, that she's been working harder to bring money in for our marriage, right?
And while I myself have, when we started, I've been living alone for some time in the past and so I have gotten used to doing Cooking by myself, cleaning the house by myself, arranging all the administrative work of running a household.
And so at the beginning, when we were not so busy with the business, she would help out.
But as the business took off and then slowed down on my side, I've been taking more and more on those household roles.
And so, again, this time the resentment builds from my side to her side because I feel like she could do more around the house and that kind of stuff.
Right. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.
Personally, I don't really know what codependency means, to be honest.
But yeah, I mean...
I don't either, just so you know that's...
I don't know either. I mean, I have some idea, but everybody uses the word differently.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, yeah.
It's just that I guess growing up as an Asian, I had had very...
Yeah, I don't know how reasonable they were.
I had this idea of how a relationship should be.
And I just thought, you know, the man works, the woman stays at home, that kind of thing.
And as that evolved into me being what I consider now, and I think you will agree, the main breadwinner, And, yeah, I've just felt more and more uncomfortable with that, with having to be the breadwinner.
And at the same time, we just had a baby having to be asked, you know, to do more around the home because then I feel like I'm doing everything.
That kind of thing. Right.
So is it fair to say the codependency might just be a word that we could use for not knowing who should be doing what or feeling that it's fair the way that it is?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's something around those lines, yeah.
All right. And if you were to pick the biggest issues, the biggest singular issue around where you think the unfairness is.
And sorry, Rene, you refer to yourself as Asian.
You mean sort of Oriental and many.
Are you Oriental or some other?
No, I'm from Venezuela.
I'm from Italian and other European descent.
But I was born in South America.
Okay, got it. Yeah, so what is the one biggest issue where you feel resentful or like the other person is not doing the right thing or doing enough?
I guess both of us would have different opinions about that.
But for me, yeah, it's all about the financial situation, basically.
I don't know whether, you know, again, maybe as an Asian, I consider, you know, You're being very nice and very abstract.
So I need to get in touch with your inner estrogen here and tell me what is bothering you about Manny and the finances.
I don't think he makes enough money.
Okay, now this is where we need to have the conversation because you're very nice and I appreciate that and it's wonderful.
But you think he's not making enough financial contribution, is that right?
Yeah, basically.
And just give me, you don't have to give me numbers, but just give me a sense of the ratio.
Are you bringing in twice what he makes in Rene or is it different than that?
Yeah, it's usually about twice, yeah.
Okay, so she makes...
And who's working more hours per week at this?
That's difficult to say because, I mean, a lot of what I do is, you know, okay, this sounds mean, but actual work with the actual clients that give us money while...
Manny has always been a bit more of a philosopher king type.
He has all these abstract projects and stuff that he wants to work on.
Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't.
And I've tried to give him my support, but yeah, they don't work out half as much as they should.
I think that's where the resentment comes from.
So, including Manny's, and we'll get to you, Manny.
I just want to sort of get Renee's view.
So, Renee, including Manny's work that he does on projects that don't pan out, how many hours do you think a week he works at making money or trying to make money?
Okay. Well, maybe 35,000.
Yeah, around 35 hours a week.
He has a bit of a motivation problem, actually.
He has tons of ideas, and I think the ideas are mostly good.
But he prefers to delegate often to me, rather than to, you know, get up and actually do things on his own, which is, yeah, starting to wear me down.
And, Renee, how many hours a week are you working at generating the income that you generate?
Well, around...
50, I think.
Yeah, mostly.
Right. And does that count the time that you spend talking to Manny about his entrepreneurial ideas or trying to help him with his ideas or trying to encourage him?
Like, those are the hours a week that you spend directly making money.
What about the indirect stuff where you're helping him with his stuff?
Yeah, I think I spend like maybe around 5 to 10 hours of that like encouraging him or trying to help him a little bit with his stuff.
But he's been angry that I've been spending less and less time helping him with his projects.
And is that, of the 50 hours a week, is that 5 and 10 subtracted or added to the 50?
Subtracted. Okay, got it, got it.
And so lack of...
Now, let me ask you this, Renee.
So if Manny were to give up the ideas that he has, which don't make money, that would free up time for him to do other things, right?
Yes. So if he gave up, from your perspective, if he gave up his entrepreneurial stuff, how much extra time a week do you think that would free him up to do other things that would be helpful to you?
Um... I think, I mean, I don't want him to stop, you know, trying to work on his ideas and, you know, trying for eventually one of them to really work.
But I think if he could spend maybe just of those 30 or so hours that he spends now, maybe he could have like most of it going towards actual work and like 10 hours going to like the entrepreneurial things, that would be good for me.
And how many hours is he doing actual work at the moment versus the entrepreneurial stuff?
Not that many.
Maybe 10 to 15?
Yeah. So 10 to 15 hours actually making money?
Yeah. And how many entrepreneurial ideas has Manny had?
I assume they haven't panned out, otherwise the resentment would not be there.
But how many ideas has he...
How many ideas has he worked at that haven't panned out?
I think in the last year, it's been a pretty bad spate of things that haven't worked out.
There's been about, I think, three to four projects that we've worked on.
I've worked on with him, and we've both invested time and resources, and all of them haven't come to us.
And since you've known Manny for the last six years, how many of his entrepreneurial ideas have worked out?
About two. Yeah.
So, I mean, the business I'm working at now, the one, you know, I've attracted a lot of clients to this business was originally started by him.
I admit he had the original idea.
I guess he trained me in some way.
And somehow, you know, the grasshopper just overcame the master at some point.
All right. Okay.
Do you mind if I just ask Manny a couple of questions?
Yep. Manny, is there anything that you would...
I'm not talking about necessarily the judgments, but about the sort of numbers that Rene was talking about.
Are there any of those numbers that you would disagree?
Well, I mean, I would say that the five to ten hours she helps me out might be monthly rather than weekly.
I would probably say that that's the area of disagreement.
And I mean, I guess she counts the rest as fully work time, and some of it is take-home, and some of it is just...
Time spent going from one client to another, which we live in a big metropolis, and it can be significant with traffic and all of that.
Right. Yeah.
Right. And what do you think has gone wrong with your entrepreneurial ideas, the three to four that she says have failed over the last year?
Well, I mean, I would take the success ratio of businesses, sometimes it depends on luck and other things, the economic situation, but where I can see my own feelings was probably when the going got really tough as far as maybe Finding the right team or having already assembled a team in a haste and that wasn't probably the best team or joining or believing in people that,
you know, maybe turn out to have problems with and then the project couldn't be carried out in full.
So you're not necessarily the best at picking teams to implement your ideas?
I would say, I mean, probably Dr.
Peterson would say that I'm low on agreeableness.
And yeah, maybe that's true.
I'm kind of highly competitive when I'm put in the fray of things.
But you already have a business that works, right?
Which is the one that Renee is spending her 50 hours or 45 hours a week at, right?
And what's wrong with putting your energies into that business if that's already the one that works?
Well, I mean, obviously, when setting it up and running it for some time, it was working quite well.
I think when we arrived there, the market was sort of maturing.
And now it seems to be declining.
And Rene happens to be kind of very good at attracting clients and doing the technical things.
And I myself Thought that, you know, I gave it a try with a year or so while it was declining.
And it seemed to, you know, sometimes get slightly better.
But then, you know, walking like a crab, like two steps, one direction, five steps to the left.
But she's able to make, I guess, fairly good money in this industry.
So why not do that?
I mean, I don't care what the market is doing.
Can you actually make money?
Maybe I'm not as good at that as she is, right?
And, well, either way, I figure out maybe.
Okay, it's your business, but she's better at it than you, right?
Well, correct, yes.
Okay, but why not work to learn her skill set and be better like she is?
Is it impossible for you to learn to do what she does?
Is it because she's a woman? I mean, what is it?
Yeah, it has something to do with her being a woman.
Because it's a sort of nurturing sort of business.
And, you know, I feel like the demand for what I was doing as a man was more niche because I couldn't get access to some clients that just wouldn't work with men.
But is there something you can do, like behind the scenes or something you can do to deliver the services?
If she's out there getting the customers, maybe you can service the customers.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
We have discussed that.
And I mean, so far she has, maybe because of my, what she considers my low agreeableness, she has been reticent to say, maybe she spends a lot of time billing the customers or fighting the customers to get their bills.
And I said, well, maybe we can do a good cop, bad cop sort of thing.
And, you know, I'm just the guy who will call you to collect the money.
And she doesn't feel comfortable letting me do that.
But you know there's certainly things I could do as far as marketing or any other thing.
I mean at the moment to I don't know, maybe I'm excusing myself or maybe I'm trying to just paint a more fuller picture.
Maybe you're not at this point in your life, you know, especially with the new baby.
Congratulations, by the way. Thank you so much.
Maybe this is not the time to explore your entrepreneurial side.
Yes, well, you're right.
Yeah, sure. You say that I'm right, but...
Is this a big shock to you?
Because if you've been working on the last year, three to four projects that have all failed, and then you just say, well, maybe you're right.
I can imagine Rene chewing at the screen here, right?
Sure, sure, sure. Well, there's this last project that I've been working on for a year and finally closed on a small round of, say, seed money, right?
And so, I mean, we're talking right now from the premises of this new project Sort of place of business, right?
And so I think this could work very well.
I mean, we're not, at least myself, don't want to necessarily abandon this last project now because it was hard to close on the investment.
And so, you know, but if it does eventually fail, give it a timeline, say two, three months, Then I would definitely have to consider either setting up a time I would dedicate myself to the business and see if I could help Rene or myself make more money on the business that's already running.
Yeah, because I'm trying to...
Hang on. You kind of filibuster a bit here, but I'm trying to sort of figure out what your...
Long-term values and plans are here.
So you have a child who's a year old, right?
Yes. No, he's three months old.
Oh, he's three months old? Yes.
Why is your wife working 50 hours a week when you have a three-month-old baby?
Well, I mean, because we...
Let me rephrase this.
Why are you working on entrepreneurial stuff Putting the burden of financial income on your wife when she's a new mom.
Shouldn't she be spending most of the time with your baby?
Yeah. Okay, so what you need to do is stop the entrepreneurial stuff and work to make money so that your wife can spend time with your baby.
Because this is where it matters right now.
The first year or two, in particular, is where you need to get the strongest bond with the mom.
You need to have the most eye contact, the most skin contact, the most happiness, the most love.
Because that way, when your kid grows up, you won't have a difficult time when they're teenagers.
Or it's less likely.
Right? So I'm trying to figure out...
Like, let's say...
Your son, right?
So let's say your son grows up.
And because he didn't have as strong a bond as he could, because your wife was working and you were doing this entrepreneurial stuff, and your son runs into difficulties, right?
He has difficulties with you.
He has difficulties socializing.
He has difficulties with schoolwork.
Maybe he has difficulties with bad decisions socially or whatever, right?
And maybe that has something to do with what's happening right now, right now in your home.
Okay. Do you think that in 12 years or 13 years or 15 years, you'll look back and say, I'm really glad I took all that time for that entrepreneurial stuff that didn't pan out, so I have all these problems now?
No. Right.
You've decided to become a father.
Fantastic. Are you kind of moving on like you're not a dad?
I mean, it seems like what decision, what major stuff has changed in your life and your decisions since you became a father?
Well, I mean, we've tried to get on some more stable employment and, well, I think it's even Pan out during the time of pregnancy, right?
And so, you know, back to...
Okay, so sorry. So I'm sorry to interrupt you, but so when your wife is pregnant, you tried to get more stable employment, and you said, well, it didn't pan out.
That's very passive, right?
Sure. Right? Oh, it just didn't happen for me.
It's like, nah, that's passive.
You make it work as best you can, right?
It's just, it's like, well, I'm going to wait for the phone call, and I don't know about that.
So you wanted to get more of a stable income for your wife, I assume, so that she could spend more time with your son.
And that didn't work out.
So the plan B for a more stable income is not three to four entrepreneurial things that fail.
You understand? That's not plan B. If you want more stable income, you need to start providing more stable income.
Because you're the father and she's the mom, so she should spend, I assume she's breastfeeding, right?
So she has to spend the bulk of her time with your son to bond, to breastfeed, to, and she's tired, right?
I assume he's up at least some portion of the night and it's difficult and it's exhausting and she's learning a lot and it's kind of draining.
So you need to be there to give a safe harbor for your wife to bond with your son.
And saying, you, honey, you're a new mom You need to contribute the bulk of our income and help me with my entrepreneurial stuff.
Like, what am I missing here?
I think some of what's like...
I don't think he trusts me very much with the baby, to be honest.
Because, yeah, it's not all as rosy as, I guess, I made it sound.
I've had problems with drugs and alcohol in the past.
And... I mean, after the baby was born, I did have like a spate of like...
I think I am currently suffering from postnatal depression.
And so I've had a few little outbursts or whatever, where I've gone out and gotten drunk.
And yeah, that's something I regret a lot, especially for someone who's breastfeeding.
That's terrible. And I understand that.
But I think at this point, like what Manny actually wants is maybe to...
Separate and raise the child as a single father.
Because he doesn't trust me with the baby.
Well, okay, if we're going to talk about that, and I appreciate you bringing that up.
You have, Renee, you have an adverse childhood experience score of five, right?
Mm-hmm. And we've got verbal abuse and threats, physical abuse, non-spanking, molestation, sex or rape, no family love or support, and a household member who's depressed, mentally ill, or who had a suicide attempt.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, that's correct. And how is it, you said sort of postpartum depression, right?
How has it been for you since the birth of your son?
What's been going on? I think the biggest difficulty, and I think a lot of what has caused this tension between me and Manny, has been...
It's been very hard for me to bond with a child in some way.
I don't really know how to say it, just...
I think, you know, you get this idea that once the baby comes out, it's all going to be like love and sunshine and immediately this connection.
But the baby was born prematurely, and I had an emergency C-section.
And since then, I mean, I've tried to spend more time with the baby.
I do go through the motions, I think, but...
Yeah, I don't know whether it's something I might have messed up my head with drugs and alcohol.
I don't know. Do you know what you said, Renee?
Sorry to interrupt. Do you know what you said just now?
Yeah. How did you refer to your son?
You said, spend more time with the baby.
Oh. Okay.
Do you know what other people might say?
What? Spend more time with my baby.
I see. Okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. When you had the C-section, did your son have to stay in hospital after he was born?
On and off for about two or three weeks.
For around two weeks, he went in and out a few times.
And how's his development at the moment?
It's doing pretty well.
I mean, yeah, there's nothing strange about how...
Yeah, how he's doing.
Good. Okay. And so when he looks at you and, you know, gurgles and tries to grab your nose and stuff like that, what is your experience of that?
Okay. I don't really know how to...
Yeah. It's getting better.
But it still feels a little alien to me somehow.
I don't really know why.
How old were you when you were molested?
Around 16, yeah.
And who was the household member who was depressed, mentally ill, or had a suicide attempt?
My mother. Which one?
Was she depressed or something else?
Oh, yeah, depressed.
She abused pills.
I think two years ago she tried to commit suicide.
And your father? He's just kind of hovered around.
We don't really talk about mental illness in my family.
He pays for the medical bills and stuff.
I don't know how much emotional support he gives her.
Well, you must have some idea.
I mean, you were the child, right?
Yeah, yeah. I ran away from home when I was 18.
Two years ago when the suicide attempt happened, I wasn't there.
I only learned about it recently.
And why did you run away from home?
Because I felt like they controlled me too much.
And what did you do when you ran away from home?
I went to live with Manny and we started up the business.
And he had known you since you were 17, is that right?
Yeah. And how do your parents and Manny get along?
Pretty terrible. Yeah.
I mean, as can be expected.
Right. Do your parents have any involvement with your son?
A little bit.
They've come and visited.
Like, they live in a different country.
But, yeah, they've come and visited and, like, they love the kids.
They love my son.
And... You say your mother was depressed, Renee.
Was she depressed for most or all, or only some of your childhood?
It started around five years ago, when her, I mean, yeah, not more than five years ago, like six years ago, when her brother died.
Yeah, six to seven years ago.
But throughout my childhood, I thought she was a great role model.
Most of the time I thought she was a strong person.
But after her brother died, she's been a completely different person.
How did your brother die? How did your uncle die?
An aneurysm.
He just fell over.
He was 40. Wow.
And before that, she was more emotionally available and so on?
Yeah, she was.
And how would you know that?
What would be the sign of that?
I think... She fought a lot more for herself and for me and my sister.
She had a lot more drive and motivation to actually get up and do things.
But yeah, she's become a lot more of a weaker and I guess more whiny person since the death of her brother.
She's become more of a nagger.
I'm sorry to interrupt. How old was she when she abused the pills?
Around 42, I think.
No, no, no. I mean, sorry, how many years ago?
Oh, okay. Yeah, around the same time I ran away from home, I think.
So it's been a while.
And before that, did she not have a substance abuse problem before that?
No drinking, no drugs?
No.
Yeah.
And what's your own history with drugs?
I started using them around the time I was 18 or 19.
So after you moved in with Manny, you started using drugs?
I might have gotten the timeline a little bit mixed up because he had some legal problems back then.
So yeah, we were...
I was very sad about him having these legal issues, so I started using drugs in order to ease the pain or whatever of that.
Were the legal issues criminal or civil in nature?
It was criminal in nature, but yeah, the charges were dropped, so there was nothing major.
Well, I don't know that criminal charges are ever not something major, but I could be wrong about that.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Sorry, sorry, Renee, go ahead.
Oh, no, no, no, nothing. No, no, please go ahead.
No, I just said, yeah, they were a little major.
But, yeah, I just didn't know how to deal with it.
And I used to go out drinking a lot.
And then, yeah, I went drinking.
And I suddenly woke up the next morning in a room with a baby and a guy.
And the guy says, you take this stuff and you'll feel better.
And I took them and I felt better.
And I just continued taking, you know.
Wait, wait. You woke up with a baby in the room?
Yeah. It was really strange.
Yeah. I went out drinking and I blacked out and I woke up in a room with a baby and this guy.
And this guy's like, if you feel so terrible, take these pills.
And I just took them.
So you thought... Here's a guy I don't know with the baby offering me some pills.
I don't know what they are. I'll just take him.
Yeah. Wow.
That's pretty much how it happened.
And Manny, so, I mean, the beginning of your relationship was not super healthy, right?
Well, we started off in university, right?
And so I was a student there, a new student.
She was a new student. There was an age difference.
Because I had gone to university before.
And so I, at this time around, came to a new city with a scholarship to go to university.
And René happens to have grown up in this city.
And so we were good friends.
And then we started, you know, having dating or a relationship of sorts.
Maybe then I met her parents and they sort of suspected that we were having a romantic relationship and didn't like it.
And when the first year was over, then I was charged with rape.
You were charged with, I'm sorry?
Rape, right?
You were charged with rape. Yes, correct.
I was arrested.
And sorry, rape of who?
Don't give me a name, obviously, but it wasn't...
Sure, no, I understand. A classmate, right?
Or a university, another female student in the university.
And then I was arrested and she had said that She didn't know why she had felt uncomfortable or whatever during that previous night with myself and so it must be that she was intoxified or drugged or something like that,
you know, without her knowledge.
And then they ran some tests in some government laboratory to some water that she said she drank the night before.
And it took six weeks for the results to come back.
And I was remanded in custody during that time.
And after six weeks, I was released.
And then the charges were dropped.
Some months later while I was on bail.
And so, yeah, it was quite a traumatic episode for me and they suspended me from university and eventually they kicked me out as well after the charges were dropped.
They had some sort of hearing where to see if they would reinstate me, but they said that I had some trouble respecting the house regulations as far as having visitors in my room, etc. And so they suspended, they terminated my enrollment in the school.
And I'm not from here, I'm not from this city.
And so now I don't have any sort of legal foothold to stay here more than a tourist or something like that.
So I went ahead and saw the situation back in my home country in Venezuela and it looked awful.
I didn't feel like going back if it could be avoided and when the time was that I was in prison, Rene was among My friendships are the only one that was supportive.
There were others who were supportive in the sense that, you know, they didn't believe that the allegations against me were true.
But she was the only one that was, say, truly supportive.
My parents, obviously overseas, she contacted them and made sure there were arrangements in place so that eventually I would be released.
And so...
When I came out, I was living outside of college and some friends, including Rene, had borrowed some money to make sure that I would have a place to stay.
And then that's when I started working part-time on the sites and then I realized I could Maybe do it as a self-employed person, this thing that I was doing for other people.
A number of months later, I incorporated the business and Rene decided to join me and she didn't have any trouble with the university out of all of this except Well, maybe the university knew that she had been close to me and they recommended she attend some counseling that she felt was not in...
like the counselor didn't have her best interest in mind or something like that.
And so eventually she didn't want to be enrolled in that particular university anymore.
So she came and we started living together.
Right. And when did you decide about having a baby?
Well, we didn't actually come.
It wasn't like a decision that we both sat down and said, you know, this is the right time to have children and let's go ahead and do this.
You know, we were undergoing some financial troubles maybe because of what I've just mentioned earlier.
My side of the business with the clients that were under me have started to slowly not be as good as before.
For some reason, Rene started to feel really sad about that and decided that the method of contraception that we have been taking You know, not contributing to her emotional distress or something like that.
And yeah, well, you know, that resulted in her getting pregnant.
Right. Do you have any access to mental health resources at the moment, therapy or something like that?
Yeah, we've been going to I've been a marriage counselor for about a year, maybe a year and a half now.
Right. I mean, you guys have a lot on your plate, right?
A lot to deal with. Correct.
Yes. A lot to deal with.
And not a lot of family support, obviously.
One from Venezuela, Rene's parents don't live in the same city, so there's not a lot of emotional support for you as new parents.
And there are challenges as far as entrepreneurship goes.
There are challenges as far as Bonding with the baby goes and all of that.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yes, my mother came to live with us about two months ago.
So I think that that's been helpful that she's been willing to do that.
There's something maybe that Asian parents often do, but obviously my mother is not from that.
She's from a Western culture or an offshoot of Western culture.
And it's not something that she herself thought it's a thing that grandmothers have to do or it's a duty, but she did it anyways, given that, you know, it's...
Okay, what is it?
Just get to... To come live with us, yes.
Okay, okay. Got it. Got it.
All right. Right.
Yeah. So, I mean, at the moment she's here, obviously, Venezuela is in some sort of death spiral.
She might not, even if she had planned to, she might not be able to return with some possibility we're wrestling with at the moment.
But in the meantime, she's of help here.
I have another sister in Houston who's doing a PhD there.
But, you know, she's on a student budget and, I mean, My mother could, you know, be there with her if she cannot go back to Venezuela, but she prefers to stay here with the baby, with my baby, our baby.
Well, it is tough. I mean, you know, that there was...
I talk about love as being sort of our involuntary response to virtue, and you guys are struggling with a lot, and I admire your tenacity in working.
You know, you've got jobs, you've been productive, you're working in therapy, which is great and important.
But I think I understand.
understand so the basis of your question is that it was not like it was massive virtues and and honor and dignity and and self-respect and all of that that brought you together because you got together quite young from difficult backgrounds renee of course in some ways uh more so although the stuff that many you've had to deal with through these allegations is pretty intense as well so yes
So how do you get a relationship going now that you have a kid, which didn't necessarily start in the healthiest way, if that makes sense?
Is that something close to what you mean?
Yeah, that's the question we're struggling with.
I mean, we call it codependency in a way because, you know, we've been helping each other out in many ways during the time that before the allegations happened, which is already five years ago.
Maybe Rene saw me as an An older student that could maybe sympathize with some of the things she was going through, coming from a country that she was in trouble and that sort of stuff.
And well, I helped her out there.
And then later she's been helping me out.
And obviously the time she's been down, I try to be of help.
But it's not necessarily that...
Either of us, I guess, who woke up one day and said, you know, here's the paragon of virtue I see in the opposite sex, and let's build a family together with this person.
So, I'll tell you what my suggestions are, and I'm glad that you're working in therapy.
Good. Keep doing that, right?
But this is my thought.
Sometimes, You have to find the courage after the act, right?
So sometimes you decide to go into a fight to help a stranger, right?
Some stranger is being set upon by...
And sometimes you say, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna fight.
And you get your courage and you get your adrenaline and in you go and it's a choice, right?
Other time the fight just springs up around you, right?
And you have to kind of react Without necessarily the same choice level.
And since a lot of what happened to you guys early on seems kind of like happenstance and so on, in a sense you're going to have to find the virtue after the fact rather than before, if that makes sense.
Like you guys have a kid together now, so it's very important if at all humanly possible that you love and stay together and all of that, right?
So maybe, as you say, you didn't have all of these great virtues at the beginning of your relationship, but that doesn't mean you can't develop them now.
It doesn't mean that you can't act in a way that's going to stimulate love within you, between you, now.
But it's going to be tougher because you're already in motion, right?
You're already married. You already have a son.
But that just means it's more important, it may be tougher, but it's all the more necessary for you to find the virtues now that it would have been easier to have and better to get together with earlier on.
Sometimes you need to learn how to fly the plane after the plane has left the ground, if that makes any sense.
You don't get enough preparation, but you're in the cockpit and you've got the joystick and you don't want to crash, right?
So if there's ways that you can define what virtue would be for you, what nobility would be for you, what courage would be for you, and start to act in those ways, I think that you can begin to create the love that it would have been better to have as the foundation of your relationship at the beginning and It would be better now to create the virtue that will bind you together as husband and wife,
as mother and father, to act on that virtue now so that you can learn to respect each other and love each other in a way that you maybe haven't felt as much before because a lot of what happened was just, you know, two people with difficult pasts and difficult situations kind of colliding together and then, you know, an accidental birth and so on.
But you can Act in ways that will generate love, act in ways that will generate self-respect.
In this situation, it's going to be hard, and it's going to take a lot of willpower to begin with.
But that would be my suggestion about the best thing to do in conjunction with your therapy, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it does. So it means being there for each other and being helpful to each other.
You know, Manny, this may not be the best time.
I know you say you've got like two or three months, you'll find out if this last thing works where you got the investment.
Sure, okay. This may not be the best time to be pursuing a lot of entrepreneurial activities.
You know, your wife does need time with her son, I think.
I mean, I hope that that's going to be something that generates this kind of bond and this kind of love.
So this may not be the best time to have her working full-time plus and being a parent because she's tired.
Yeah. Right? Am I right, Renee?
I mean, I remember the early days of my daughter's life.
I mean, it's... Yeah, I think so.
Sometimes I feel like I don't get enough understanding from Manny on this side, or his mom, really, because they complain why I wake up too late or something sometimes, and I'm like...
It's because I woke up, like, three or four times in the night to go feed the baby, you know?
Right. Yeah, I don't know.
And I've been having, like, memory issues and stuff.
You've got mommy brain, right? Baby brain is a thing.
I think it's a thing.
Yeah, no, but it is a thing as far as I understand.
Anecdotally, it's called mommy brain, where you, like, you have to go back to the house three times because you can't remember to bring everything, whereas before that wasn't the case.
So, yeah, I think the mommy brain is kind of a thing.
And I... I don't think you can pour too many resources into new moms, basically.
Because new moms have this massive big job of, you know, bonding with and being the first human primary contact of a new life, of a new human life.
So to me, Manny, I just say, okay, well, what is it that I can do to support René as much as possible?
on getting that connection with her son.
She needs the support as a new mom.
I think that to me is like, that's where most of the resources in the family should be going at the moment.
It will pay off because if your son is well bonded with his mom, then your parenting job is gonna be infinitely easier for the rest of your life.
And if this doesn't happen as much at the beginning, it can really raise the challenges down the road.
So I think, you know, maybe put the entrepreneurial stuff aside, work hard to generate the income if there's ways you can reduce expenses so there's less Financial worry, that may be something to do, but I think you just have to grit your teeth and be the kind of man that you know and be the kind of husband and be the kind of wife that you know you have to be in order to generate love.
You have to do it while the machinery is in motion already, so it's a bit more of a challenge, but I think that's the best chance that you have to learn to love each other at this point growing forward based on virtue rather than need, if that makes sense.
Yeah. No, I mean, it does.
At the time, maybe, you know, I personally felt, well, you know, this is the hand I've been dealt with, and there is no help.
I, as a father, will try to replace sort of the mother figure, but, you know, as a listener, Of the show, when I have time to, you know...
Sorry to interrupt, but if that is your goal, Manny, then that does the entrepreneurial stuff that's not panning out, doesn't help with that either, right?
Sure, no, it doesn't.
But, yeah, I mean, maybe that's not the ideal situation.
Like, there's not this, there might be, as you say, something down the road for my son, whose best interest I have in mind, that he doesn't have a fully...
Yeah, and with you, of course, as well.
I mean, the fathers are very important, but I think particularly at the beginning, since, you know, René has...
The feeding boobs, right?
So she's got to be the one up at night to feed him and so on.
There just is that extra symbiotic bond, right?
They call it the fourth trimester, right?
Where the child is latched onto the breast and there is just that particular connection and that particular labor that is needed by Renee at the moment.
So, you know, as far as like working 50 hours a week and all of that, well...
While trying to do all of that, while trying to deal with a lack of bonding that she's experiencing and some postpartum depression, as she says, that is a lot to handle.
I think you need to pull back and just for the next little while, maybe a while, I don't know how long, until these things begin to resolve significantly, I think you need to put some of the other stuff you want aside and learn to be there.
In this way, for her, it's a very selfish thing for you to do in a very significant way because it's really going to pay off.
In terms of how much fun you're gonna have parenting as you go forward.
I understand. All right.
Okay, well, keep working with your therapist and hopefully this advice has helped.
I really, really want to thank everyone so much for a very, very interesting and powerful set of conversations tonight.
I hugely appreciate everybody's honesty and openness in this conversation.
Please, please go to freedomainradio.com slash donate to help out the show.
Look for The Art of the Argument out soon.
You can follow me on Twitter at Stefan Molyneux.
Don't forget to sign up for...
The new mail-in list. And last but not least, fdrurl.com slash Amazon if you have some shopping to do.
Thanks everyone so much. It's a wonderful privilege to have these conversations.
