Sept. 16, 2015 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
03:30:24
3076 Death by Multiculturalism - Call In Show - September 9th, 2015
Question 1: [1:20] - I’m a German citizen. Is there a solution to the Immigrant crisis in Germany/Europe - or is history repeating itself and we are on the brink of a new European war?Question 2: [1:23:10] - Certain common sense conservative beliefs are the glue that bonds Republicans nationwide - but are any of these actually principles? Could you address a few of these “beliefs” and tell me if they are actually principles? Includes an extensive conversation on stripping personal responsibility from the black community.Question 3: [2:13:37] - I have mixed feelings and hesitation about getting married and having children, even though I am in a good long-term relationship, and we both want marriage and children - and time is an issue! All considered, what is a healthy way to approach this inner conflict between R and K impulses?
Hi everybody, it's Stefan Molyne from Freedom Made Radio.
Hope you're doing well.
Gene Wars Part 3, baby!
It's out!
It's not so much published as it escapes leaving a bloody trail of data in its wake.
So I hope that you will check that out.
And welcome, of course, to all our new European friends, listeners, who came this way.
What pisses me off about the migrant crisis video?
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Beep.
Well, up for us today is Frank, and Frank is from Germany.
And his question is, is there a solution to the immigrant crisis in Germany slash Europe?
Or is history repeating itself?
And are we on the brink of a new European war?
Frank obviously has a bit of skin in the game here.
So welcome to the show, Frank.
Good evening.
Hi.
So what are you seeing from where you are?
Well, it's a very, very strange situation because everything, for example, I would say that you have said in your speech would make me here a national socialist.
So just for this information.
And the other thing is I encounter a lot of people who are now really scared about the situation and Whenever I talk to someone, they're really...
after a few seconds, the word war comes to mind and the word war is said that they are afraid of it because of all the...
How can I say it?
The tensions that start to rise.
The fears that start to rise.
And you have quite a divided situation in the people because most of them, how can I say it?
They're afraid of themselves as Germans.
And Whenever I try to talk to them about situations that you talked about in your speech, for example, I can't get to them.
And so, when it's about the migrant crisis, they're full of empathy for the people, but are blinded by their empathy at the same time, if you know what I mean.
Oh, no, I do.
I do.
But go on.
And...
Yeah, I mean, if you would like, I can give you an example.
Sure.
I had a discussion with a girl, and she talked about a neo-Nazi who hassled a little girl, a refugee girl, in a Berlin tram.
And he ended the hassle by peeing on her.
And cursing her.
And that's not the nice way to do this with another human being.
But I gave an example of a situation I encountered here in my direct neighborhood.
A confrontation between two kids.
They fought with each other and the German kid sought asylum in the house of another woman.
Soon after, he was followed by a refugee kid, a son of an Albanian man.
Even though they both arranged the situation and they were peaceful with each other, the father came in and demanded the little boy to speak with him.
He went straight to the boy, choked him, raised him up, smashed him on the ground and hit him multiple times on the head.
So, that he was sent to hospital with a concussion and blunt force trauma with, yeah.
It's just terrible.
It's hard for me to talk about this because it was just in my neighborhood and I know the people.
But, in this situation, in this crisis, you get some kind of relativism.
People compare the one with the other.
The situation with the girl who was peed on is that yes, but for most of us it's the same.
It's terrible for me to think about that people see both of these situations as the same.
This kind of violence happens, but this kind of thing is kind of terrible too.
And you get this in different colors, just only for...
It's just kind of a glimpse of the situation.
Just a sec.
So the woman who was telling you the story of what was a neo-Nazi peeing on a refugee girl?
Yeah.
Was that something she had herself witnessed?
She's from Berlin, and she just read it in the paper.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, in all conflicts, there's massive amounts of propaganda.
And generally, you know, vid or it didn't happen.
Video or it didn't happen.
Yeah.
So, you know, somebody said, oh, yeah, someone peed on a girl.
Like, that's just, I don't know.
When you've studied the history of conflicts, you know that there's just so much propaganda floating around.
Like, you know, this poor boy who drowned in the surf, the family, has had a lot of different stories to tell about it.
And so there is a lot of propaganda that floats around these kinds of conflicts.
And the idea that...
You know, oh, so some crazy guy peed on a girl, so now we have to let in half a million people a year.
I mean, that doesn't even follow.
Indeed.
And also, you could say, okay, so let's say there are neo-Nazis in Germany.
I don't think there's lots, but let's say there are.
And let's say that those neo-Nazis really dislike immigrants.
Well, isn't that then just going to cause a lot of conflict to have immigrants come in?
And isn't there going to be a massive amount of overhead having, say, 500,000 people coming from the Middle East as opposed to, say, 1,000 people from Denmark?
You know, I mean, where's the upside for the people?
Yeah, that's the same situation.
I always talk to people and I ask them, so...
I always hear about, oh, it's a chance for us.
It's a challenge we all have to take for the better.
And I always ask them, what chance is there?
Just mayhem and destruction and people hating each other and people are, yeah, they're not cooperating.
Well, I mean, you know, Islam has been around for about 1400 years.
And they can't seem to stand each other.
Yeah.
I mean, they've had 1400 years with the same general religion, and they cast at each other.
Like in Syria, right?
You've got the Sunni, you've got the Kurds, you've got the Shiites, you've got a whole bunch of different factions.
And the country was put together almost 100 years ago.
And after 95 of those 100 years, it just descended into civil war.
So these people have been living cheek by jowl, largely with the same religion.
They've been living next to each other for almost a century, almost a hundred years.
And they're just slaughtering a quarter million of each other and destroying an entire country.
And they have a lot more in common with each other than they do with the Europeans.
So where do people think this is going to go exactly?
I mean, it's not that hard to figure out.
I think it's just, like you said, the propaganda of nearly 70 years losing the war and stuff like that.
No, no, it's not Germany.
I mean, Germany has it bad.
I mean, there are an estimated 5,600 violent neo-Nazis in Germany as of 2010, right?
But it's not.
No, it's not.
Man, you should hear the people in Canada here.
Oh, it's a humanitarian crisis.
It's time for us to step up.
We've got to care for these people.
We've got to do the right thing.
Fine.
Go over and help them.
Go send them money.
Go fly over and help them in Syria or in the Turkish camps or wherever it is.
But all these people morally preening themselves.
Oh, I'm such a good person.
I care about all these refugees and blah, blah, blah.
Again, go help them.
But don't force everyone else to back up your own moral self-congratulation and such a wonderful, caring human being.
That this is not...
This is going to end in disaster.
I hope it won't.
I mean, I hope to be proven wrong.
I really do.
But can I just give you two very brief little things?
Just indications that there could be some problems down the road.
Just a couple of little things, right?
Yes.
So, number one, I don't know if you've heard of these.
They're called no-go zones.
Yes, of course.
Okay, so I don't know.
I just looked up a paper.
A 120-page research paper entitled No Go Zones in the French Republic, Myth or Reality.
There are dozens of French neighborhoods, quote, where police and gendarmerie cannot enforce the republican order or even enter without risking confrontation, projectiles, or even fatal shootings.
A 2200-page report, Suburbs of the Republic, found that Saint-Saint-Denis and other Parisian suburbs are becoming, quote, separate Islamic societies, cut off from the French state, and where Islamic Sharia law is rapidly displacing French civil law.
The problem is being exacerbated by radical Muslim preachers who are promoting the social marginalization of Muslim immigrants in order to create a parallel Muslim society in France that is ruled by Sharia law.
So here you have these areas in France which are not France.
It's the same here.
Yeah, I mean, this is not integration.
No.
And I experienced it since I was born in the 80s.
But I can say as soon as I could experience it and get to know the difference and the specialities of these situations, you know, like what is my culture and another culture and what are these people, what are they doing?
You could see that since my earliest age, I could experience it, they try to separate themselves as a separate people inside the state where they live in.
And every time here, when you talked about it, you're a Nazi.
Because...
Well, this is the problem.
The problem is that I really am always suspicious when there are significant social problems that nobody can talk about.
When facts become a problem to the discussion, the discussion itself has turned cancerous.
Quote-unquote free speech.
Yeah, I mean, no, we look, I mean, if you want to assuage people's fears about hundreds of thousands of people from the Middle East pouring into Europe, at least let people talk about their fears.
Talk about the facts that give them concern, but everybody gets screamed down.
And that is not a good sign.
Here's another example.
So 40 years ago, the Swedish parliament just basically decided to change Sweden from pretty homogenous to a multicultural society.
Nobody consulted the Swedish people, just as nobody consulted those in America about whether they wanted to take third world immigration rather than European immigration, which had been working fairly well.
I mean, do you expect there to be a referendum in Germany about whether these migrants should be taken in?
No.
No?
Why not?
It's supposed to be a democracy.
Angela Merkel herself in 2010 said multiculturalism is a complete failure.
Indeed, but now she totally made a 180 degree turn in it.
It means someone has something on her.
Of course.
It means that she's being blackmailed or threatened in some manner.
I mean, someone has something on her that would destroy her career.
I'm sure of it.
I can't prove it, I'm sure.
Or in general, she just tries to work something out with other, how can I say, entities.
Yeah.
You know, for another goal.
Yeah, so here we go.
So homogenous Sweden...
The violent crime since the importation of largely third world immigrants, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%.
Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries surpassed only by Lesotho in southern Africa.
So in 1975, 421 rapes reported to the police in 2014, 6,620.
And that's...
Over the past 10 to 15 years, immigrants largely come from Muslim countries, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and so on.
And of course, you can't tell because the Swedish authorities are actively suppressing information about people's ancestry or religion when it comes to crime.
Political correctness.
Right.
I mean, not to mention these rapes of Western children from the Pakistanis in England.
People wouldn't protect the kids.
In 2008, Denmark, right next to Sweden, not exactly on the other side of the world, Denmark had only 7.3 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants.
There were 53.2 in Sweden.
And in 2011, over 6,500 rapes were reported to the Swedish police, but only 392 in Denmark.
And Denmark's about half the size.
It's a huge discrepancy.
And statistics Denmark...
The official statistics office revealed that in 2010, more than half of convicted rapists had an immigrant background and not a lot of immigrants in Denmark.
And in 2002, it turned out that 85% of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape were foreign-born or second-generation immigrants.
A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention I mean...
That's not good.
No.
I always tell people that they don't need to check the papers they don't trust.
They just have to go to the courthouses and just check the papers outside of the courtrooms.
You have the names on it and what they did.
And it's always the same.
They need a translator.
That's a pretty good question.
And my question is, where the hell are the feminists?
All I heard about growing up was rape culture this and rape culture that and rape is so terrible for women and of course it is.
Where are the feminists?
It could have consequences.
Where are the feminists when thousands of Swedish women are being raped?
Where are the feminists?
Of course the feminists don't give a shit.
about women getting raped.
They care about destroying the West, undermining capitalism, and eradicating the family because they're a bunch of Marxists.
They don't give a shit.
I mean, this is one of these just mind-blendingly liberating moments where you just go, well, feminists, you're just pieces of shit.
Because where are the feminists screaming from the bloody rooftops about this massive increase in rape?
Oh no!
Because they've got to go after the Duke Lacrosse team and they've got to go make up shit about rapes on campuses and all that kind of crap.
But the fact that their actual almost 1500% increase in rape Don't hear a thing.
Don't hear a thing.
And people say, oh, you see, it's blowback.
Blowback for European, American, blah, blah.
Okay.
So you go to a Swedish woman and say, well, sorry, you had to get raped because 150 years ago, British people had an empire.
Are you kidding me?
And yes, it's terrible that this kid got drowned.
Kid got drowned and you see a picture.
Terrible.
However...
Where are the pictures of the Swedish women who've been beaten up and raped?
Oh no, you see, that doesn't fit the narrative, so we can't show that.
We can only show the most emotionally manipulated pictures we can to get people to shut up and go along.
Oh, you don't want these people to come into your country, you must want war people to drown.
It's like, that kid only drowned because Europe opened the floodgates.
The kid only drowned because Europe let people in.
In Malaysia, where Muslims were fleeing They were being, as they say, they were being oppressed by Buddhist monks.
Not something I thought I'd hear in my lifetime, but they just gave them food and supplies and said, keep on going, we can't take you in.
And in Japan, they had 5,000 applications for refugee status last year, they approved 11.
In Japan, if you convert to Islam, you can go to jail.
Who's screaming xenophobia at the Japanese?
No one.
Doesn't exist.
Europe has been isolated and verbally abused for 60 years, in particular, of course, in Germany.
And now they just have become these completely broken walkover countries where they have no laws, they have no borders, they have no cultures.
And people are like, well, it's just moving and libertarian and open borders.
It's like, okay, great.
I'm happy with open borders.
But number one, people have to be allowed to discriminate at every level.
And number two, you can't be funding people to come over.
I mean, some guy who comes to Germany from the Middle East is going to earn about three times his annual income just on welfare.
That is not an even playing field.
And the people suffer from it.
Here especially.
I mean, I don't want to say...
People out of the world don't suffer, but I mean families are thrown out of their houses.
The state just comes to them and says, well, the house you live in with your eight kids, just search for another flat.
We need it for refugees.
Are they really?
They're just taking people's houses?
Yes, they did it multiple times.
And they even took, I think it's kind of a propaganda thing, but it took a four-star hotel and transformed it into a refugee camp. but it took a four-star hotel and transformed it into I mean, what are they trying to send?
What kind of message do they want to send to the people they should protect?
And, oh yeah, no, I wouldn't rely on the government for that.
No, I mean, it's...
And it's just because people don't know the history of the region, and I'm certainly no expert, but I know enough to be dangerous as usual, but because people don't know the geography and the history of the region, they don't understand just how completely bizarre it is for these people to come to Europe.
Like, it makes no sense.
It makes no sense because, first of all, they say, well, the U.S. has been bombing the country.
U.S. has been bombing the country.
Okay, well, let's look up the numbers.
And in 2014, across Iraq and Syria, less than 500 civilians were killed by US bombing.
On the other hand, 15,000 ISIS warriors were killed.
And I'm telling you, those 15,000 ISIS warriors probably would have killed a lot more than 500 civilians.
And in Syria, it was less than 200.
Less than 200 killed by American bombs.
Now, 250,000 people killed in Syria, less than one-tenth of 1% were killed by US bombs.
So who is killing all the Syrians?
It's not the Western powers.
It's other Muslims.
And a lot of these...
So Syria has a Sunni Muslim majority, Shiites and Sunnis and the Kurds and others as well, right?
So the Sunni Islamists that are in their fighting have taken over northern Iraq and are waging war in Syria.
They were backed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and other Sunni states.
Sunni fighters, Sunni states.
And now a lot of the people who are fleeing are Sunnis because it's the majority population.
Now Iran's Shia government, they backed Assad, the government in Syria with cash and weapons and soldiers and stuff like that.
So it's one of these proxy wars.
Where, you know, like in the 50s, there was a proxy war between Russia and America in Korea.
And in the 60s and 70s, it was in Vietnam.
And you get these proxy wars where these two, right?
And these proxy wars are between Sunni and Shiite Muslims with Saudi Arabia and Qatar on the Sunni side and Shia governments like Iran backing the other side, backing the government.
Not a lot of Europeans and Americans in that And the Sunni extremist group, almost defeated in Iraq in 07, well, Al-Qaeda and so on.
They grew under ISIS and all of that.
And so you've got a bunch of Sunnis who've been displaced right on the border with giant and very rich Sunni countries.
Like, I know Qatar's not big, but Saudi Arabia's huge.
And so the idea that you've got Sunni Muslims...
Right next door to Sunni Muslim countries, and not going to those Sunni Muslim countries, but instead going to Europe, makes no sense.
Makes no sense whatsoever.
And I don't know, obviously, what all these Sunnis are like, or any of the...
I don't, right?
I don't have any particular personal experience of the region.
Went to Morocco once.
Doesn't really count, right?
But I... So I don't, you know, I don't generally judge people directly without direct experience, but I at least can judge those around them.
And if the Saudi Arabian Sunnis don't want any of the Syrian Sunnis, that's not a good sign.
That's not a good sign.
If the Sunnis don't want them, how are they going to fit in in Europe?
Because Saudi Arabia is saying for whatever reason, well, we don't want them.
They can't come here.
And the next thing is they meet up here and they fight again.
The whole travel or the whole journey of escaping a war has no sense if you meet up again and have a reason to fight again in another country and make the other country your personal war zone.
And it already happened.
Of course.
Multiple times in the last weeks.
And this idea that this is blowback?
Germany never even had a colony in the Middle East.
Yeah.
Never had a colony in the Middle East.
So what the hell is this blowback for Germany for?
They claim we sent weapons to them.
So that's the reason why we have to endure this situation.
Well, I mean, didn't send nearly as many weapons as Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Iran did.
Of course not.
But...
And the idea that somehow all of this happened...
Okay, so the country got destabilized, obviously, right?
I mean, there was a big mess.
American people were lied to and America went to war in 2003 against Iraq and decapitated the government and disbanded the military, which created a fertile breeding ground for terrorism and all that kind of stuff.
And then what happened was under George W. Bush, the president of Iraq said, hey, you know, if your troops keep staying here, we're going to have to subject them to Iraqi law.
And he's like, whoa!
Not fun being the conqueror if you have to be subject to the laws of the place.
So we're out of here.
Then they scheduled to leave in 2011 and Barack Obama followed through on that.
So then there was a massive withdrawal.
And then people say, well then of course there was this violence and ISIS and civil war and shit.
It's like, oh my god, that's so ridiculous.
Do people in the Middle East have no free will?
Do they have no moral responsibility?
Do they have no personal agency of any kind?
I mean, gosh, I mean, just look back at the history of your country.
Germany had the living crap bombed out of it all throughout the Second World War, particularly at the end.
And your leader met an untimely end in a bunker with cyanide, or whatever the hell he used to kill himself.
Now...
Germany was bombed to hell and gone, and their Saddam Hussein, your Saddam Hussein, was killed, and did Germany start setting fire to people in cages and boiling people alive and beheading people?
No.
No!
No!
Of course not!
You know who else didn't have a great time in the Second World War?
Hmm, Japan!
Massive fire bombings, thousand plane raids over Tokyo, made largely of wood, and 100,000 people died in a single night of bombing.
So massive bombing in Tokyo, massive bombing throughout Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two nuclear weapons, the effects of which are still being felt, and massive destruction in the company, in the country.
Did they turn?
To the kind of crazy stuff that's going on in the Middle East now?
They did not.
Both Germany and Japan went, okay, militarism, not so great for us, so let's do the sensible thing and blah blah blah, right?
Stop being insane and start being productive.
So the idea that, well, there was destabilization from some external source, therefore we have all of this, is saying that, what, people in the Middle East are just like robots?
Like, they just program, they can't think for themselves, there's no choice, there's no, I mean, if that's true, then these are the last people you can have participating in a democracy.
I don't think it's true, but people just like to blame the West for every bad thing that happens in the world.
And that's the thing, it doesn't add up.
You don't get an answer who you could be satisfied with.
It's always this, but it can't be.
It doesn't mix.
You can't have these two parties coming together and say kumbaya and everything is alright.
So there are points where they rub each other and where there's friction.
Rub each other?
Rub each other!
I mean...
No, no, it is not rub each other.
My God, man.
I can't judge any individuals.
I'm a philosopher.
I don't care about individuals, right?
That's like saying that a physicist cares about just one atom.
No, it's patterns.
I don't care about individuals.
I do care about ideologies.
You can't judge individuals.
You can't judge ideologies, right?
And, you know, there is a commandment in Islam which says go to foreign countries and spread Islam.
Right?
I mean, that's one of the deals.
One of their holy missions.
There's another one which says, hey, if you're an atheist, you're killed.
Now, again, it's not speaking about every single Muslim, of course.
I'm not judging the individuals.
People have a tough time understanding this.
I'm judging the ideology.
I mean, you get this with the children.
They're trained like They were raised to be lions, you know, to be conquerors.
Wait, which children?
You mean the Middle Eastern kids?
Yeah, of course.
They live here.
The ones who live here, they are trained from little children Like that and so you can't expect to have a human being or a grown-up who is not only gentle, he doesn't need to be gentle, but who is compassionate and who tries to understand the other culture because he is the premium one.
He is the one who should get all the girls and how dare they deny him this.
Oh yeah, there's nothing like the narcissistic rage of a member of the chosen people who doesn't succeed, right?
I mean, we've seen that among Jews, we've seen that among Muslims, and it happens in various places.
I mean, if they can raise your vanity to the point where any prick to that vanity creates explosive rage, that's not a...
And people are saying, well, you know, well, you see, the Western governments did these bad things, and therefore the people, like, blowback and so on.
It's like, okay, so wait, are we supposed to...
Judge an entire group by their popular representatives?
I mean, is that how it's supposed to work?
Okay, let's universalize that.
If I remember rightly, there was a, by now, Food for Fishers fellow named Osama bin Laden, who carried out a series of terrorist attacks around the world, killed thousands of people.
He was quite popular in some Middle Eastern quarters.
Quite popular.
You could buy t-shirts of him in the bazaar and people were dancing and cheering.
Not everyone, of course.
People were dancing and cheering.
So he was a very popular people's representative.
Does that mean that we can judge all Muslims by him?
Of course not.
And so let's say that even a majority of people did vote in certain Western leaders who made bad decisions.
First of all, the people were lied to.
Second of all, the people are raised by the government and propagandized like crazy.
Third of all, you can't disagree with your leaders in a democracy because you get thrown in jail.
If you don't like the war, you've got to pay the taxes to support it anyway.
If you don't, you get thrown in jail.
So the idea that the...
The Westerners are somehow massively in control of their own governments.
It's not the leaders who are going to suffer in the West.
Because the leaders all got security.
And the leaders all have their gated communities.
And the leaders sure as hell aren't living anywhere near these no-go zones.
And certainly not within them.
It's the average person who is going to suffer.
And it's their children.
What the hell is going to happen to German education when you have this many people who don't speak German coming in to the school system?
I mean, it's already dumbed down for the people.
We have a three-school system.
It's a little complicated to explain, but yeah, the grades just went down and down and down so they can meet up the things they can do.
Well, you know, this is another issue, too.
And it's something well worth pausing on.
And this information is generally so suppressed that you can barely even talk about it.
But the average IQ in Syria is in the low 80s.
That is really bad.
Now, people could say it's either environmental or it's genetic or it's a combination of the two.
From what I understand, it's about a combination of the two.
And there are estimates that range between 40% and 60% of IQ is genetic.
Now, let's say that there's a strong genetic component to the low IQ in Syria, and there's lots of work happening in the human genome to map the alleles which are responsible for creating greater intelligence in people.
So let's say that there's some genetic component to it, then what you're doing is you're bringing in a bunch of people who can't handle Western civilization.
Not through any fault of their own, you know, just like there's not a lot of Chinese guys in the NBA, because Chinese people are kind of short.
There's exceptions, of course, just as there are wonderful, smart, brilliant, moral Syrians.
But in general, you're bringing a whole bunch of people in, not only with no tradition of the West, not only with no tradition of separation of church and state, not only no tradition of the Judeo-Christian moral philosophy, not only with no history of compromise, of free trade, of any of those things, but they don't have the functional capacity to operate in a free market, post-industrial democratic society.
They're not smart enough to do it.
Now, if it's genetic, that's really terrible.
Because that ain't going to change, right?
I mean, not in any, you know, maybe over a thousand or two thousand years.
But certainly not when you've got the welfare state teaching the least intelligent people that the best way to gain income is to make more dumb people.
But, let's say it's all environmental.
Okay, 100% environmental.
No problem.
Well then, you have a whole bunch of people with an IQ of 82 bringing up children.
Can people with an IQ of 82...
Bring up really smart children?
I'm not sure they can.
How would you feel if your child's teacher had an IQ of 82?
Which is more than a standard deviation below the average in Europe.
It's not just the religion.
It's everything.
I mean, I always tell people that our genes and who we are is formed by the ones we surround us and by the area we live in.
And the different challenges the area gives us, for example, develops these ways to get the IQ you need to survive in this area.
I mean, if the sun shines all day and if you don't have to plow through snow to get to your food, it's quite more easier to Get the things you need.
So where's the challenge?
And I think that these are things that embedded themselves in the genes IQ-wise or challenging-wise.
I think it's part of it, at least.
No, there is a history of, you know, the fire and the ice people, and there's various theories about the degree to which the challenges of farming and surviving in a country half the year landlocked by ice and snow...
That does provoke significant progress.
And if you look at the history of the Jews, according to the genetic analysis of the alleles that some people believe are responsible for significant Jewish increases in intelligence, they're only a couple of hundred years old.
Right?
I mean, it took that 5,000 years of very selective breeding in the Jewish community to produce the higher IQ that you see in the Jewish community.
It's a long time.
Long process to improve human beings.
And we're talking about human people, human tribes, that have been separated by between 50 and 100,000 years of evolution.
That is a lot of evolution, because remember, people didn't live very long in the past.
They started having kids at 12 and died at 25.
So you had some pretty compressed, you know, eight generations in a century.
And after, you know, there's also arguments that say that...
Because the Europeans ended up, I know it's weird but true, having sex with Neanderthals, that this also created a massive explosion in the diversity and accelerated evolution in the northern gene pool.
Plus, of course, you had successive waves of plagues throughout Europe, which generally wiped out the less intelligent who were congregated in cities because the smarter people got out of town and stayed out of town as soon as they could.
The amount of suffering that has occurred to produce, you know, hey, I don't think I need to save my seed crop till spring.
I'm hungry now.
I'm dead, right?
I mean, the amount of suffering that had to happen to raise the IQ. And it's even worse, you know, the amount of suffering that happened out in the Eastern Asian people, out in the Siberia and all this.
I mean, it's not.
And also there's biological incompatibilities, right?
Like, so people talk about how terrible it was for the Europeans who came over to North America and the Native Indians and so on.
Yeah, some of it was terrible, but there's a biological incompatibility.
So in Europe, of course, you know, alcohol was first distilled and beer was first produced and wine was first produced thousands of years ago.
But in Europe, particularly when Europe became agricultural, We, Europeans, developed genes that controlled or limited our susceptibility to alcoholism.
Now, you didn't want to have genes that said no alcohol at all because beer was a lot safer than drinking the local cholera-laden water sometimes.
So you wanted to drink beer sometimes because if you didn't drink any beer, you'd probably die from some waterborne illness or ailment.
But you also didn't want to become an alcoholic.
So the genes to manage alcohol intake developed in the European stock over a thousand or two thousand or three thousand years, depending on sort of how you measure it.
But it happened pretty effectively and pretty efficiently.
Now, the Native Americans, who had no exposure to alcohol, had not developed the genes to limit the effects of alcoholism.
And this is one of the reasons why, tragically, you see a lot of alcoholism in alcohol.
North American native populations.
I've actually been to these reserves.
It's pretty brutal stuff.
But it's not, oh, they're so sad because their culture was taken away.
I mean, obviously there's aspects to that, but fundamentally there's a gene incompatibility.
And this happens in the realm of illnesses as well.
Like the average white person who went into Africa in the 18th century didn't even last a year before some god-awful brain parasite from the Congo took out his brain stem and shattered out its eyes.
And so this is one of the reasons why the slave trade couldn't happen with white people.
They'd widen from black people because they couldn't go in.
There's biological incompatibilities.
You know, just try putting tropical fish in with freshwater fish.
See how well it works out.
It doesn't, right?
And so there's illness incompatibilities.
There are illnesses showing up in America because of the migrants coming up from Central America and Mexico.
There's pathogens showing up in America that haven't been seen in a generation or two.
And the same thing is going to happen.
There's biological incompatibilities that are not that easy.
You can't just, you know, everyone's the same.
Kumbaya, let's link hands.
At every conceivable level.
And the idea that the people have to suffer for the decisions of their leaders is truly insane.
It's like saying, well, see, there was a man...
Who was out there poking a hornet's nest.
The hornets flew past him and are stinging the crap out of his screaming children.
So, yay, justice.
No.
It's not the fault of the people.
I mean, the massive anti-war protests throughout Europe, the biggest anti-war protests in 2002, 2003, the biggest anti-war protests that have ever occurred in the history of this planet.
Did it stop the war?
No.
The people have no control over their governments.
Stop blaming the people for what the governments do.
And that's the thing here.
What else does this whole situation have any good for people but being against the people to control and divide them?
You know?
I can see a situation where I can say, well, this is...
Because they always try to tell us, we need more workers.
The German population is aging very rapidly and we don't make a lot of children.
But my theory is, well, then, in times like these where there's so much trouble and everyone is afraid of the next eco-crisis and blah, blah, blah, but...
Maybe you don't need so many children.
Just mellow it out.
Let some have just one child and after 20 years maybe they have 10 again.
But in a situation like this, what good does it do?
Well, you know, only smart people care about overpopulation.
Overpopulation and the fears of overpopulation and the fears of environmental carrying capacities and environmentalism and so on.
It's just a great way to get smart people to not breed because less smart people don't give a crap.
Now, of course, governments only care about the birth rate because they've made promises to voters that only a steady stock of new workers are going to be able to provide.
Right.
Because they stole all of this money from the population as a whole by promising them these fabulous retirements and free health care and all the dental floss you can eat.
And right.
So they stole money for generations from people promising them this great retirement.
And then they spent all that money and they have no money.
So like vampires ran out of blood, you know, they're stunned.
I, the tomato juice, right?
So they want to bring people in, not because they don't care about how many people there are.
I mean, they only care that they're going to get into trouble with the older voters if the younger people aren't there around to strip their kidneys off, sell them for parts on the black market, and shovel, you know, another round of cards at the old people, right?
Right.
So, yeah.
I mean, if you want people to breed more, it's not that hard.
Just lower their taxes.
It's really not that complicated.
Human beings don't breed, at least smart human beings don't breed very well in captivity, which is why as you go up the intelligence ladder, fertility declines, right?
Mike, what was the statistic you found about women in IQ and maternal feelings?
Let me see.
I forget the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I believe there was a correlation between a woman's intelligence, her IQ, and the likelihood of her having children.
The more intelligent the woman, the less likely she was to be having kids.
And it was dose-dependent, if I remember rightly, that the higher IQ went, the less maternal feeling you had, or the fewer children you had.
Yeah, let me pull that up.
I'll get it to you in a second.
Yeah, and that's, you know, people make this mistake about welfare, right?
And they say, well, the welfare state can't be why there's more illegitimacy because, you see, the welfare state isn't really that good a deal.
You have a couple of kids and you just live in hand-to-mouth and you don't have a lot of excess and you can't go to vacations in Costa Rica.
You're just kind of getting by.
Which to anyone with any brains is a pretty terrible deal, which is why it doesn't work for smart people.
But if you've got an IQ of 90 to 95, like all the single moms do, welfare is a pretty good deal.
You're not going to make that much money outside of welfare.
You get a lot of money now.
You don't have to work at a crappy job because when you're not that smart, you generally only get crappy jobs.
Welfare is the old thing that people who are smart mistake people less intelligent for themselves and say, well...
I'd never do that.
Right?
So it can't be why it happens.
It's like, no, you have to put yourself in the mindset of people who are a lot less smart than you are.
And what decisions will they make?
And what kind of forethought will they...
You know, somebody with an IQ of 90 or 85 is not sitting there saying, well, you know, if I go to work now, then in 15 years I'll be making more.
They're like, no, it's not how they think.
Because, you know, impulse control is not a big feature of low-intelligence people.
Yeah, that's the thing.
We now get around 5 million when they let their relatives come to who are probably not very high on the IQ scale.
But the government always tells us, yeah, there are a lot of engineers and technicians who are well trained and just want to work and work for you and we need them.
Oh, you mean that people coming out of war-torn Syria?
Of course.
Are these great engineers who are just going to slot perfectly into the German economy?
Without speaking any German?
And if they are that trained, why aren't their countries, their own countries, like Germany already?
I mean, they should be on the high-tech scale way up if they have so many engineers.
Yeah.
Oh no, that's all just a bunch of lies.
And the thing with the Native Americans that you said, it's the same.
I mean, we have Native Germans.
It's like they actively do the same thing again like they did with the Native Indians.
At least I have the feeling.
It is like that because I'm one of them.
Right.
Sorry, I just have to correct something here.
Just Mike gave me the study.
The mean childhood IQ of women who've remained childless for life is 105.3, whereas the mean childhood IQ of women who've become parents is 101.7.
It's statistically significant.
Maternal urge decreases by a quarter for every 15 extra IQ points.
So this is part of the dysgenics, partly of life, which is really exacerbated by the welfare state.
And this is using UK information just so everyone knows.
Those averages are from the Britain offices of national statistics.
Yeah, it may not be worldwide, but that's how it goes that way.
The other thing, too, that has struck me as well is just the degree to which people from the West are just not allowed to have any particular interests.
Like, I mean, not allowed to have any sort of national or cultural sense of value and importance.
Like, let me give you an example.
So, colonialism from the West was considered really bad because these were Western values being imposed and infiltrating other countries, right?
It's really bad when Westernists go over and impose values on other cultures.
See, that's really, really bad.
But these no-go zones in France, apparently...
Nobody can talk about that.
But isn't that people from the Middle East going to France and then imposing their values on French districts so that French people can't even go there?
I mean, you are a French person.
Your ancestors may have died to keep French, France, French.
And now there are significant places in your own country you can't even go.
How is it bad for Westerners to impose their values on other countries, but other countries come to Western countries, impose their values, and nobody can even say anything?
I mean, you had it in the UK, too.
The riots and the violence from particular no-go zones.
I mean, I don't see a very bright future in the next years, because all these riots will accumulate here, too.
And I know what you mean, and I've lost some sleep over this issue, but let me lay out for you a scenario which may give you some hope.
Hope is needed.
Are you ready to smile again?
Give me some later Hodesen tap dancing.
Are you ready?
Yes.
All right.
Mike, I'm sorry to keep trying to extract information from you like I'm some crazed Steve Martin dentist in a flower shop, but Mike, can you give me the cost to Germany, estimated, even in the short run, for these, what has Merkel said, half a million a year for the next couple of years?
All right, I will find it.
All right.
Okay, so we'll get this number.
Let me give you a little hope, Frank.
Okay.
First of all, people have just gotten soft.
They've just, they've gotten soft.
And we have been, you know, I love women and I'm surrounded by women and women are great.
But people have gotten soft.
And they've gotten soft because women are very sentimental.
And that sentimentality, that inability to Look at suffering and recognize it as necessary and important has kind of gone from women into the mainstream as a whole.
So Germany's going to spend $6.6 billion to cope with 800,000 migrants and refugees expected to have crossed into the country by the end of 2015.
$6.6 billion billion.
And this, oh my God, don't even get me scared.
This is the country that Really hated funding the Greeks.
Remember?
Ah, those Greeks, they're just sitting around on their sun-drenched islands, sipping their ouzo and frappuccinos, and here I am going to work in the snow.
Those Greeks, I can't believe I have to fund those Greeks.
Oh, a bunch of Muslims?
Yeah, yeah, come on in.
Happy to.
I mean, this makes, like, this...
It makes no sense.
It makes no sense at all.
Oh, wait a second.
Do we share a strong philosophical tradition, pretty much the same religion, and a very united cultural background?
We hate giving you money.
Oh, wait, hang on.
Oh, we've been traditional enemies for 1,400 years.
Come on in!
Have some money!
I mean, madness!
But anyway, sorry, let's get back to the hope part.
Where's the smile?
I know, no, hang on, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
This is going to hurt a little bit, I'm going to feel better, sorry.
Alright, so this is going to break the European welfare state.
It is going to break the European budget as a whole.
Like, the extended pretend house of cards of European bullshit fiat currency financing will not survive this.
I'm smiling.
Oh, I'm telling you, right?
So, if the people came here for the welfare or came to Germany for the welfare, which a lot of them say that they did, right?
They stopped in Hungary and said, wait, I think I can upgrade by getting to Germany.
So, if they came for the welfare and they break the welfare state...
They probably won't stay.
Well, sometimes it's...
I'm not saying they're doing a lot of favors.
It's certainly not their plan.
But there's no conceivable way that The European welfare state can survive this.
And it's not just the welfare state.
The cost of policing is going to go through the roof.
The cost of education is going to go through the roof.
The cost of health care is going to go through the roof.
There's a study in England that points out that Muslims, because they have an unfortunate habit of marrying their cousins, have a lot of inbred genetic problems, which really, really jacks up the price of health care.
I mean, just circumcision is a lot.
Anyway, so the cost of everything is going to go through the roof.
And there's simply no way that the countries have the economy.
You've got an aging population.
You have a lot of unemployed youth.
There is no possibility that the semi-socialist welfare state can continue.
Now, right now, it's easy for people to be pompous and self-congratulatory about their infinite humanity in helping these migrants.
Why?
Because nobody's paying for it, right?
So, the Germany's going to need $6.6 billion.
I mean, and it's going to be probably $40 to $60 billion, because you just take every government estimate and times it by 10, right?
Like Dick Cheney was on the...
Was being interviewed the other day.
And he said basically the problem, you know, is that Obama took the troops out of Iraq and that created a power vacuum.
This is the same guy who said, oh yeah, we'll be in and out within six months.
Right?
So this is how insane the media is.
I mean, that's why somebody lets me interview Dick Cheney.
Because I'd be like, Dick...
Can I call you a dickhead?
Yes, thank you.
Dick, you're now saying that seven or eight years after the war you said would only last six months was not nearly long enough to stay.
Are you kidding me?
That's when he shoots you in the face, right at that point.
I thought you were a pheasant.
Well, I am well feathered.
No, peasant.
Peasant.
It just takes the age out.
So, yeah.
So, basically, you didn't know enough about the war.
You thought it was going to be over in six months.
So, the problem...
The war should only have lasted six months.
But the actual problem is, after seven or eight years, it should have lasted infinity longer.
I mean, this is just so insane, right?
How anybody has any credibility in these areas?
And, of course, a lot, as I mentioned before, a lot of the same people who are saying, we've got to go in and help the rebels because Arab Spring and freedom...
Okay, so a lot of people wanted to go in and help those rebels in Syria, and that destabilized the entire country.
Quarter million dead, four million people displaced, half the population of the country on the move.
Those same people who said, we've got to go and help the rebels, are now saying, well, you've fucked up the country, you've got to accept the consequences.
What?
What?
Oh my god!
I mean, the news information I got is that most of the Syrian refugees were concentrated by Turkey in the big camp around 2 million and now they just opened with the correspondence to the US the floodgates and just let them all out basically.
What, Turkey let them out?
Yeah.
Yeah, see, what's weird is that, see, this, I mean, boy, you think the IQ is low in Syria.
Just think of how stupid the Turkish people are.
I mean, why would you want to turn out all of these wonderful and highly productive engineers and lawyers and doctors?
These people are a massive boon to your economy.
Why are you fencing them in?
What does Turkey know that we don't?
And by the way, the whole situation with the refugees, like I said, concentrating them in kind of camps is not very good for Germans in the historical thing.
No, no.
I was saying this to Mike and Soyan the other day.
So, imagine you're Angela Merkel.
Okay, put on the giant corset of nipple-hugging evil, and imagine that you're Angela Merkel.
And there's a bunch of people coming up on your shores, a bunch of people, and it's like, hey, let's have the police round them up and put them on trains.
Oh, how's that going to play?
Shouldn't we be seeing this in black and white?
Like, this is why Germany is just paralyzed.
And I get it.
Listen, I get it.
You know, people come to me and they say, oh, but Steph, don't you care about these refugees?
They're human beings too.
Yes, they are.
It's terrible.
It's terrible.
And thousands of children die every single day from starvation.
And terrible things happen in the world.
But the children aren't responsible.
So I don't see why the German children are going to have to grow up in this messed up situation.
The children aren't certainly responsible.
The lessons to be learned from the West are stop interfering in other countries.
Stop interfering in other countries.
You could use this as a learning opportunity to make things a lot better, or you can...
People who are saying, well, you know, we've got to have the government come in and take care of and deal, but the government's got to take care and deal with all these migrants and it's got to set up all these programs.
And the government, it's like, you know that this is the same government that you say screwed up these countries to begin with.
Now, screwing up countries is a lot easier than getting two oppositional cultures to mesh together and work in harmony, right?
And why should you listen?
Well no, I mean, it's the same people who fucked up these countries that are now expecting to get atheists and secularists and Christians and Muslims to all live together in one happy family, which has never happened anywhere except maybe one construction company outside of Israel.
So, if you want to solve the problem, you can't hand it over to the government.
Because the people say, well, the government is so incompetent, they screwed up all these countries.
Okay, well then, the government that screwed up all these countries is the same one that's going to be trying to integrate these migrants.
How do you think that's going to work?
It's a lot easier to break a virus than it is to make one.
And it's a lot easier to break a country than to positively and effectively deal with the fallout.
And if this system would work, the USA would be the most peaceful place on earth.
But, well...
All I know is that Muslims generally can't live with other Muslims.
Oh, also, you know, Jews generally have the highest recorded IQ as an aggregate in the world.
Now, I know that in Israel it's lower than it is for diaspora or Ashkenazi Jews, but I assume the leadership is pretty smart in Israel.
And Israel, do you know what they're doing with regards to these migrants?
Just some information.
Of course.
They don't treat them very nicely.
No, they're building a fence.
Yes.
Building a fence.
So, the Jews know the Muslims quite well.
They've been living cheek by jowl for quite some time.
So, again, I can't judge all the Muslims, but let's just see how the Jews view them.
And I'm not saying, ooh, sympathy to Jews, no sympathy to Muslims.
I'm just looking at the reality.
The Jews are like...
Oh shit, some Syrians are coming.
Build a wall!
Build a wall!
And now they're voting for tearing down the European border fences.
Sure, sure, sure.
Yeah, in which case they should just say, we have no countries, we have no laws, we have no borders.
And actually, that'd be great.
It's all yours.
The government's shut down, let's get our free society finally.
I think that'd be worth it.
I'll take all the Muslims in the world if we can have a free society because of it.
Because that's a separation of church and state.
There's no state.
Yay!
But that's not going to happen.
The question is if we would be there to witness it.
Well, no, it's not going to happen anyway.
Because, you know, all prior government programs are the excuse for new and more powerful and disgusting and vile and horrible government programs.
So the previous government program called, we're going to bring stability, democracy, and peace to the Middle East.
Well, that government program is now giving rise to a new government program called, we have to tax the living hell out of you, kick you out of your house, because there's refugees from our...
Peace mission.
It's like, okay, so all government programs just lead to more government programs until there's a collapse.
Now, when there's a collapse, I think a lot of people from Syria are going to go, what, it snows?
It's gold?
I don't like the gold.
So, you know, without the, you know, shitting gold on them through the form of German tax extracted blood treasure welfare state, I mean, I don't know.
And free women.
Sorry?
And free women, of course.
Yeah, I was reading somewhere, it's just probably nonsense, but I was reading like, you know, because I don't want to judge from the photos, but it does seem like there are quite a lot of healthy young men among these migrants.
Not a huge amount, but, you know, more than you would expect by statistical averages.
And some people are saying, oh, well, they see the Saudis just kept the women and got rid of the young men.
Because, boy, have you ever heard of any problems in the world from a large number of unemployed and unmarried young men?
Boy, they tend to not be the most stable element on society.
Basically, it's like swallowing a tube full of nitroglycerin and going to Sky Zone and jumping on trampolines on the wall.
Kaboom!
Right?
The unemployed and unmarried young men...
Are the bane of every society's existence.
And hey, you've now got a couple of hundred thousand people of that description and with an ideology that is not exactly compatible with your way of life.
Good luck.
So, I mean, look, one of two things is going to happen.
I mean, Western European culture has been crippled, of course, by the 20th century.
century was just brutal on the West, right?
You had two giant world wars that carried off tens of millions of the most case-elected and assertive and confident parts of the culture.
And we're left with Canada dregs, kind of like a bunch of weak-kneed social justice warriors who need hug rooms when they encounter data counter to their own prejudices.
You know, either the culture is going to just fade away, at least, you know, maybe we'll all end up living in Iceland or New Zealand or something like that.
I don't know.
But either the culture is just going to fade away, which, you know, it's evolution.
I mean, you either stand up for, you know, for who you are or you don't.
And if you don't stand up for who you are, then you get overrun.
Sadly, the world doesn't run on philosophy.
The world runs on the will to power as general.
Nietzsche would talk about it, right?
And so, yeah, you can just let people walk all over you, in which case they take all of your stuff and your culture goes into the ash bin of history.
I don't think that's going to happen.
And I've made this speech before, but white people as a whole, and I don't want to speak for white people as a whole, just from studying a lot of Western history.
But white people are very, very accommodating and very, very appeasing until they're not.
And then when they're not...
People remember why whites had the biggest empire in history.
Yes.
Because white people will bend over backwards to accommodate you, but when they finally get that they're just being taken advantage of, well then you will see a backlash.
Yeah.
And that backlash will be quick, decisive, and brutal.
So, you know, again, to talk about the history of our respective countries, taking the mainstream narrative, you know, there was a lot of appeasement of Hitler.
A lot of appeasement of Hitler under Chamberlain and so on.
And then there wasn't, right?
And then there was a whole lot of not, right?
And my mother, of course, who's German and, you know, suffered through intense bombings.
And there was, you know, the British people were like, okay, no war, no war.
Okay, we're going to have war.
Fuck you, right?
I mean, and then there's just no, and this is what we want to avoid.
Yeah, but that's a danger that I see because as soon as you fight for your freedom or for your rights in this case, oh, here they are again, the Nazis, would be the first thing you would hear.
Right, and at some point, and I'm not saying I welcome this, but this is why we need to be able to talk about it.
We want to avoid that kind of stuff, right?
Because the question is, is this going to provoke a Hitler 2.0?
We don't know.
And again, I don't mean to put Germany in the spotlight.
It could happen anywhere.
It could happen anywhere.
But at some point, people are going to go, I have just woken up.
I do not recognize this country.
I'm going to fight back.
And the white backlash trigger switch is turned on, and then whites change to become completely unrecognizable.
Hey, where was this nice person, right?
Before.
Where was this nice person who just wanted to help out?
It's like, well, they're nice.
White people are nice until they're not.
And then they're really, really not nice.
Indeed.
And people forget that.
You know, there are, are, are until they can't be are anymore.
And then, boom.
It's like, it's weird what happens in history.
There's just this crazy switch.
And the British people were terrified of war because everybody in the 1930s thought that with the advent of the bomber, everybody would just be wiped out the moment war was declared.
And British people were terrified of war throughout the 1930s and then when war was inevitable, they saw it through to the end standing on top of tens of millions of bodies.
And the Germans too, right?
The Germans accepted some of the Versailles Treaty and were willing to have an army of less than 100,000 and no air force and so on until they weren't.
And I think we've all been in this situation.
I've certainly been in this situation in my life where I'm like, I'm going to appease, I'm going to be nice, I'm going to keep the peace.
And then suddenly I'm just like, and I felt the switch within myself.
I felt this...
This is not...
This is just a personal matter.
I don't want to bore you all with relationship stuff, but I felt this issue in myself.
I was in relationships where I was like, ah, it's kind of being bullied.
It's kind of like, okay, well, I'll keep the peace, so maybe they have a point, or maybe I could improve these things about myself.
And then, like, like one night, boom, the switch flipped.
I got out.
I never looked back.
Your personal German came on.
I'm sorry?
Yeah, my inner German came on.
That's right.
Freedom is my Poland.
So the switch that happens in...
Maybe it happens for everyone.
I'm just talking about mostly I've studied European history.
But the switch, people, you know...
Same is true of British people as well.
Very accommodating.
Very polite.
Bend over backwards.
But boy, the moment they realize that you have bad intentions and you're just there to take advantage of them, all of that stored up goodwill turns immediately into To a cold anger.
And boy, you saw that comment, Mike, and you remembered it better than I did.
Don't turn us into those monsters again.
I've seen a few of those comments in the YouTube video.
Do you remember what they said?
You don't have to find the exact one, just the gist.
That was pretty much it.
The concern about Hitler 2.0.
Yeah, they were basically...
Sorry, go ahead.
Well, concerned about essentially just giving in, giving in, giving in, not being able to talk about stuff, pushing stuff down, pushing stuff down, pushing stuff down, and then a violent eruption when people have enough.
I mean, we talk a bit about the silent majority that's occurred in the United States with Donald Trump's electoral success as of late, and...
You know, if you get a silent majority of people that are very upset at certain minority groups and don't feel that they're being represented politically, and it just goes on and on and on, I mean, if you get a silent majority of that, that could be incredibly hostile and nasty down the road.
Incredibly hostile and nasty.
Indeed.
I mean, if I may say so, you have a group That forms every Monday in Dresden and the last time they found they were around 20,000 people and Angela Merkels herself Spoke not very kindly of them and they're always cursed and harassed by the media and
They're pushed into the right corner.
They just want clearance and they just want help and they're just afraid and nobody cares about them and so when you're not cared about and when nobody is interested in your needs and in your fears and You don't trust your government.
You don't trust the people who you should trust.
I mean, to a specific point.
But on the other hand, if nobody listens, you will get to the corner that gets the violent part done.
They push the people to these corners Where they have to do specific things that are not nice because nobody listened.
Yeah, if you're a husband and you've got a wife who's got legitimate complaints about you and you're just screaming at her and humiliating her and threatening her every time she voices her concerns, she'll just kill you in your sleep.
She can't get away.
You can't, right?
If somebody bullies you, And you go to your teacher, stuff like that, and he just says, well, you're a crazy guy yourself.
I don't trust you so much.
And what you say is, I don't like it.
You provoke him.
He's perfect.
You're the bad guy.
Yeah.
And what is the consequence of this?
The next time you get bullied, you don't ask for help.
You act.
And sometimes the thing you do will be not very nice, and then you're judged.
So this is a vicious circle you can't escape.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it also struck me that, you know, this idea that, well, you know, other countries armed people in Syria, and therefore, you know, ISIS and civil war and quarter million dead within their own country.
I mean, In the 1940s, America lent huge amounts of weapons and money to England in the Lend Lease Program, and they didn't descend into this kind of barbarism.
The fact that there's external funding of an army doesn't lead to this stuff.
So, I mean, my goal, of course, as always, is to try and minimize the escalations of violence that can occur in the world.
And my concern is that people in Europe, particularly the young men, Because the young men are not getting married, and a lot of them don't have jobs.
So you've, I mean, I'm just guaranteeing you that is going to be a volatile section of society.
And so you have on the Muslim side, you have people, young men who are unmarried because paucity of women, and they don't have jobs because of a wide variety of circumstances, language and culture and welfare and job restrictions and all that.
So you've got two groups of people in the same living space, two groups of young men, Of course.
And so this, I mean, this is locking lions and tigers in the same cage without enough food for both.
I mean, anybody who says that's a good idea is, I don't even know what to say to them.
I mean, they've got this weird view of human nature that we just suddenly are not going to become tribal despite, you know, 250,000 years of evolution preceded by a couple of billion before that, which is tribalism and aggression.
So we do need to have these conversations.
I don't know exactly what the answers are.
I know what my ideal answers would be, but they're not going to happen.
Eliminate the welfare state and all that.
It's not going to happen.
So I don't know what the answers are, but I do know that we need to have these conversations.
And I also know that just screaming Nazi and xenophobe at people who are bringing up legitimate concerns, there is enough data out there.
And I just went through two tiny pieces about the no-go zones in France and the rapes of Swedish women.
It's just two tiny pieces of data.
And IQ is another piece of data.
And culture and incompatible, if not downright oppositional cultures.
And young unmarried.
These are just data points and historical facts.
Facts sort of gleaned from historical studies.
These are things to talk about.
And the fact that nobody is really allowing anyone to talk about this is stuffing more ammunition into a powder keg that sure as shit is going to go off sooner or later because it always does.
You don't listen to the people and you impose things on the people that they don't want and they don't like and at some point the people and in particular the young men look at the government and say...
You are my enemy.
You are not only not looking out for my interests, you are actively working against my interests.
I no longer respect you to enforce the law.
And then what happens is people start taking the law into their own hands.
You get Kristallnacht, you get this kind of stuff, and things get very bad.
And this is not where we want society to go.
So we need to put a moratorium on this.
We need to have a frank and open conversation about it.
There at least needs to be a referendum.
I mean, this is supposed to be a goddamn democracy in Europe.
How about a referendum?
We don't get it.
On this issue.
You won't get it.
And if you don't get it, then things are just going to escalate, in my opinion.
Now, maybe there's something I'm certainly far from omniscient.
I mean, it could be some things that I've missed.
I could be completely wrong.
Maybe they are all a bunch of engineers and doctors and things are going to go peachy keen or whatever, right?
The data doesn't support it.
And there are so many pieces of evidence that go against that thesis that I consider it practically impossible.
But if all of the evidence of history, all the evidence of genetics, all the evidence of the Middle Eastern history and their conflicts therein, if all of the evidence of incompatible—I mean, just look at the Northern Ireland and, like, look at the Protestants and Catholics.
They're the same Judeo-Christian religion.
They have not been getting along for 500 years.
I mean, for God's sakes, can we learn from history for one time and recognize that just continuing to impose opposing groups in the same geographical area is like introducing two subspecies of the same species in the same geographical area, hunting the same food.
One of them will generally try to wipe out the other sooner or later.
We've got to learn from these things, and if we don't learn this time, given all the weaponry that is around and given all of the crazy stuff that you can cook up in your basement these days, I mean, how many people are going to have to die before we recognize that we really should have had those conversations earlier and we really should have listened to reason and evidence.
We really should have listened to history and we should have allowed the people to have a voice.
The next thing is that you have, in the wake of the migrant crisis, the German government slipped, what do you call it, They are now allowed to use the German army inside the country.
Oh, posse comitatis has been violated.
Well, I'm sure that's because they know.
They fear.
They fear the big boom.
Yeah.
No, they know.
These are oppositional cultures.
Yeah.
These are oppositional.
I mean, God, there was a lot of fear of Irish people in America.
They're Catholics, they're drunks, they're angry, they fight, they write well, all of which is true.
But, I mean, fear enough of, I mean, that's Western tradition, white people, but they're Irish, you see.
And there was a lot of fear and real challenges with that population, a little bit more compatible than Middle East and Germany.
I mean, what's next?
Forcibly airlifting people from Iceland to Somalia?
They'll be fine!
Let's put the Inuit on Mercury!
They'll be fine!
God.
Anyway, I mean, it's blindingly obvious, but I think that there can be an upside, which is that...
My frustration for 30 plus years now has been people don't listen to reason.
We've got a whole the death of reason presentation.
People don't listen to reason.
So you keep making your predictions.
You keep going out on the limb and saying what you think is going to happen.
And anybody who thinks that this is anti-Muslim or whatever is ridiculous.
What my ultimate goal would be, would be continue to preach reason into the ether as I do pretty much every day on this show.
Continue to preach reason and evidence and slowly start to detach people from their superstitious ideologies and so on.
Then we can have more of a gentle landing where people from the Middle East and other places which are still rife in nationalism and superstition and all that.
Yes, we can get them into the modern world and continue to preach reason to everyone.
That's how we want to build.
Particularly better parenting.
You know, Syria is a hellhole because everybody's childhood is hell.
Everybody's childhood is hell out there.
And until you can improve childhood, there's no point.
I mean, the idea that, oh, we're going to go and kill Saddam Hussein, and now the Iraqis are going to be free and secular and Western and modern.
It's like, no, they still had the childhoods they had that programmed them to be a certain way.
And again, there's still free will in there.
But we've got to preach peaceful parenting.
We have to get a better...
At bringing reason and evidence to these societies to replace religion with philosophy in the long run without it going crazy lefty and secular materialism and economic determinism and all that kind of crap.
That is the plan that we have.
So it's not like anti-Muslim.
It's just recognizing that right now it's not ready.
It's like what I said in the South African presentation.
The blacks' middle class was not big enough to provide economics and political stability.
It was too soon.
It was too soon.
And, you know, you put a kid on a bike too soon, they lose a tooth.
It's just the way it works, right?
I mean, so people want to go listen to The Origins of War and Child Abuse.
It's a full audiobook that you can find at freedomainradio.com or you can find it on this YouTube channel.
Just need to listen to that to understand the degree to which society is run by early childhood experiences.
If you want to improve society, you have to improve early childhood experiences.
And we're going to get a whole lot of worse childhoods coming out of this mess.
A lot.
Well, listen, man, I've got to move on to the next caller, but I appreciate your call.
I hope that we can lure you back to talk again and keep us posted.
I would be happy to do it.
It was a blast for me to talk to you, really.
Yeah, how was it for you?
I mean, obviously, there's some politically...
I think there were maybe one and three-quarter politically incorrect things that I said, but how was it for you?
No, no, no.
I mean, if you put it...
I'm quite a direct guy, and it was awesome.
I hope my skills in the language were not hindering.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Did you not want to switch to German?
Pardon me?
I'm just kidding.
I could when I was a kid.
You tricked me.
Really?
Did your mother talk to you?
It's unbelievable.
Yeah, we'll switch to German and that way Mike can put on funny subtitles.
You know, I have no pants on.
We can do the Freedom in Radio version of that Hitler meme video that goes around.
Oh, yeah.
Did you see that's a great one?
It's from some Nazi movie where they're burning all the papers.
Oh, with Hillary Clinton's emails?
There's no way that she could have that many emails about yoga.
If she didn't do that much yoga, she wouldn't need to wear pantsuits.
It was an awesome experience just exchanging ideas and thoughts and showing you a little insight of how it's here and how the people are doing or at least one of them.
No, I appreciate that.
And it's great to talk to a German guy named Frank.
It's like talking to a British guy named Engel.
But anyway, so thanks very much.
We'll move on to the next call.
And yeah, you're welcome back anytime.
A great chat.
Thanks.
Alright, thanks so much, Frank.
All right.
Well, up next is Robert.
Robert wrote in and said, the principles of the Republican Party, and in this case we're talking about the Republican Party of Wisconsin, are the underlying reason we are all Republicans.
These common-sense conservative beliefs are the glue that bonds Republicans nationwide.
But are any of these actually principles?
And Robert is asking if we could address a few...
No!
Sorry.
Sorry.
We haven't even read them, Doug.
What are you doing?
Sorry.
Political party principles.
Are any of my superstitions scientific?
No!
Sorry, go ahead, Rob.
I've pasted some of them in your Skype window, Steph.
Oh, fine.
Look at some data.
Welcome to the show, Robert.
Thank you very much, Mike.
I believe I can fly.
Sorry, go ahead.
Just to clarify a little bit.
Actually, I'm not a part of the Red Sea.
But I was answering an email from somebody on a letter to the editor that I wrote.
And this individual emailed back that you're in the wrong party, you don't get it, and I've learned, thanks a lot in part to things like your show, that it's always best to take their information and their evidence and their party stuff and Feedback to them those things that really don't make sense.
In fact, my first response to the guy was, your entire email is in an argument.
Because it wasn't.
But I went down, I thought, well, I want to go see what the platform says for this red team player and answer his objections to my letter.
And I was surprised to find that they no longer listed the Republican Party Wisconsin platform.
Instead, they listed the principles of the Republican Party of Wisconsin.
I went reading through these, and I was just baffled because I'm trying to really make sure that I grasp the idea of a principle, and I'm reading these going, these aren't principles.
These are just ideas.
You know what it is?
It's a child's letter to Santa Claus.
I believe I've been a good boy.
Can I have a republic?
Even in their opening paragraph, it says, The principles of the Republican Party of Wisconsin are the underlying reasons we are all republicans.
You ready for this?
These common sense conservative beliefs are the glues that bond republicans nationwide.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
Aren't principles irrespective of parties and common sense and conservative and liberal?
Well, can you have Republican physics?
I don't think you can have Democrat science, which is, I don't know, anti-evolution.
But you can't have, I need me some Shiite math.
No, that's not how it works, right?
It doesn't work like that.
Give me some libertarian counting.
Me plus politics equals freedom.
No, wait, that's fantasy algebra.
All right, so should we start for the first one?
Let's go for it.
I believe!
Sorry.
I love it when they start with I believe, because all principles are about beliefs.
Well, beliefs is just why, I don't know, crazy people believe they're Napoleon.
Is that a principle?
No, that's a delusion, right?
I mean, so, beliefs are just things that people think are true, right?
I mean, it's got nothing to do with principles.
Principles have to be universalized.
They have to actually be proven and established, right?
Somebody who believes that the world lives on a turtle doesn't have a principle.
He's got religion.
That's the fundamental understanding difference between science and voodoo.
It's the difference between a scientific knowing and a belief.
It's a completely separate understanding, correct?
Well, I believe encompasses faith, right?
I believe that two and two is four.
It's not really a belief.
If it's true, it's not really a belief, right?
Right.
When people say...
I actually believe that the earth is round.
Nope, the earth is round.
Or sphere or whatever.
Okay, let's start.
I believe the proper function of government is to do for the people those things that have to be done but cannot be done, or cannot be done as well, by individuals.
And that the most effective government is government closest to the people.
Okay.
So, let's see.
Those things that have to be done but cannot be done or cannot be done as well by individuals.
So, I assume in that they would mean things like national defense, a court system, policing, maybe roads, you know, that kind of stuff.
So, they believe that these, well, they have got to be done.
You've got to have national defense, but either can't be done or can't be done as well by individuals.
And that's where you put the big bucket of government power in, stuff that has to be done, but the government is the best way to do it, right?
Well, in the letter that I wrote that the guy was responding to, I was actually writing on the issue of the fact that the governor of Wisconsin and the legislature just gave $250 million to the owner of the Milwaukee Bucks in order to build a new stadium.
Because, of course, it can't be done by one person.
Nothing can be done by one person, I guess, except sperm production, but nothing can be done by one person.
I mean, you know, the iPencil, Lawrence Reed's article, nobody even knows how to build a pencil.
But here's the problem with, to me, stuff like this.
You know, imagine you're an investor, right?
You're an investor and I'm coming to you and I'm saying, dude, give me $10 million, right?
And you say, okay, well, what's your business, right?
And here's my speech.
Are you ready?
Are you ready?
Here's why you should give me $10 million.
I believe that the proper function of a company is to supply products and services that people need but don't have yet and that they're willing to pay a lot of money for.
Can I have $10 million?
Hello?
$10 million.
Okay, I'll take nine and a half.
Would you like another sentence of empty generalities with no content whatsoever?
Would that help you give me $10 million?
Eight and a half.
I'll take anything.
Can you validate my parking?
So it doesn't mean anything.
It's like, well, there's a bunch of stuff that society needs to do, and I'm going to just say that a bunch of individuals can't do it, therefore government.
I mean, you're just creating these artificial lines and saying, over here, there's something the government can provide value with, and so we need a government.
It's like, oh, stupid, right?
The most effective government is government closest to the people.
That just makes it sound like a creepy uncle in a basement, you know?
I'm getting close to you.
Well, you know, it's interesting, because in this case, on the stadium, in the late 90s, they built the Milwaukee Brewers Stadium, and it cost, in a recall election, it cost, I think, three or four of the State Assembly and Senate individuals their offices in a recall election, because they taxed the local people of Milwaukee in order to build that.
So, you see, we believe that government closest to the people is the most effective, except when we start to lose seats because people don't like what we're doing, and we tax them.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, and if government is closest to the people, how about just every individual?
So what they've done is they've said, well, there are things that desperately need to be done in society that no one but a government can do.
But that's called the tautology.
Like, why do we need a government?
Because we need a government.
It's like, well, it's not a principle.
That's, you know, it's a tautology, you know.
Well, everyone should listen to my show because my show is the best.
Well, how do we know that your show is the best?
Because people should listen to it.
It's like, I don't think you really added anything in that last bit, right?
So, the second one, I believe good government is based upon the individual and that each person's ability, dignity, freedom and responsibility must be honored and recognized unless they disobey any of our laws, in which case we send cats with guns with them to throw them in jail.
I don't really know how the government is supposed to help you have freedom and responsibility and dignity when, if you don't pay for the taxes for what the government wants to do that they claim is necessary, even if you disagree with it, they throw you in jail.
Well, Wisconsin actually has one, not one, I think we have two of the highest income disparity cities in the nation, one being Madison, where you have this immense disparity of those of the wealthy and those that have nothing, and the poor black community It's actually sequestered to a small portion of the city.
It's an absolute tragedy.
But it's done through such high taxation, through the high property taxes, so you can't move into the rich neighborhoods and buy a broken-up house and fix it, because by the time you fix it, you can no longer afford the property taxes.
In Milwaukee, right now in Milwaukee, one in eight black men in Milwaukee is currently incarcerated, generally speaking because of the war on drugs.
Clearly they don't care about people.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
My, we have been drinking deep from the cup of socialist propaganda, haven't we?
Okay, let's back up a little as to why the black men are in jail again.
It's a one in eight, right?
Well, in Milwaukee, there have been a number of studies that have been done, in particular one by Marquette University, and it looked at the concentration of the black population in Milwaukee first.
Which, in part, is caused by the fact that it was a socialist environment when they began moving into Milwaukee in the 60s.
Okay, no, no, no.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Sorry.
It sounds like if you've got to start your story in the 1960s, you've lost me already.
Okay, hang on.
Okay, let's just take, you know, and I thought this was going to be the non-politically volatile call, but okay, let's rush in.
So, how is it that white people are making black people do drugs?
No, they're not.
But through the war on drugs, they've targeted that neighborhood, they've targeted that population.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, they have not, I guarantee you.
Okay.
See, look, there are two ways of measuring crime, right?
One is how many people get arrested, right?
And, of course, they record this stuff by race in America, as they do in a couple of other places, not Sweden, because, you know, apparently Swedish people are allergic to facts.
But so what they do is they say, okay, let's say 20% of arrests for drugs.
Let's just take something.
20% of the arrests for assaults are black, right?
And maybe blacks are only 10% of the population.
So then the tendency for people is to then say, aha!
Blacks are only 10% of the population.
They're being arrested at twice the rate.
And therefore, right, there's profiling and racism and so on, right?
But what America does is there's this thing called the Crime Victimization Survey.
And what they do is they call lots of people in neighborhoods all over America.
And they say, have you been the victim of a crime?
What kind of crime was it?
And what were the characteristics of the perpetrator?
Was he male?
What was his race?
And I don't think they ask age or something like that or whatever, right?
And so what's generally happened in America is...
The crime victimization survey data matches up almost exactly with the arrest data.
In other words, if there's 10% blacks in a population and 20% arrests of blacks for assault, and they phone up all these people, and 20% of the people who were victims of assault say it was a black guy, that matches up, right?
That's not racism.
That's people arresting people who commit a lot of crime.
So in Wisconsin, for example, right now, African-American incarceration rate is 12.8%.
And in the rest of America, it's 6.7%.
Wait.
So I would agree with you.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Sorry, I'm not trying to interrupt you or stop your flow.
No, no, please.
But, so let's just go through this slowly, right?
Because I want to make sure I know what we're comparing.
So Wisconsin, you said blacks are, what, 12% and change?
In Wisconsin, black men in the state prison system make up 12.8% of the prison population.
Okay.
And do you know what the population is of black males in Wisconsin?
Oh, it's like 4%, 3%.
We're pretty white states.
Wait, do you know or are you guessing?
Because you got very precise with the 12.8 and now we're just, you know, how many fingers am I holding up in front of my face when I'm drunk, right?
I mean, so...
Maybe Mike can have a quick look at that.
But let's just say it's 4%.
And we'll get some better data.
Okay.
So is it that you're looking at the discrepancy between 4% population and 12.8% prison population and saying, ah, it's triple the racism?
No, I'm saying that it...
It's partly due to the history of Milwaukee.
Milwaukee had a socialist era, of course not.
No, no, no.
Sorry, man.
I'm sorry to be such a douchebag.
I really am.
But you have all these answers, but you're not giving me some important characteristics.
Okay.
Okay.
So, for instance, a couple of things associated with crime.
Number one, single motherhood, right?
Correct.
And so...
Have you normalized the arrest rates or the incarceration rates by proportion of single motherhood?
The Milwaukee, excuse me, the Marquette study did not address that part of it.
Interesting.
By the way, the population in Milwaukee is 6.5% black.
No, but you said black males, right?
So are we talking about, what, 3.25?
Just like half?
Sure, 3.25, sure.
Okay, so we'll just go with, I don't know, four times, right?
So the question is, if blacks are four times, again, this is all just off the back of my hand, right?
Whatever, right?
But if blacks are four times more likely to grow up in single mother households, then they're going to be considerably more likely to commit crimes.
Because one of the biggest predictors, if not the biggest predictor for a criminal behavior, is single motherhood, right?
Right.
Okay, so if we've got a study that says, aha, you know, blacks are committing, like they're incarcerated at four times the rate of their population, number one, I would expect them to compare the arrest rates to the victimization rates.
In other words, if blacks are committing four times the amount of crime, then you would expect for four times the amount of blacks to end up in prison, right?
Well, the way I see this, there's a bit of a fiction in that.
No, no, no, hang on, hang on.
Sorry.
Let's agree on this part, right?
I'm not saying it's true, but if blacks are committing four times the amount of crime, then you would expect four times the amount of incarceration, right?
Well, that would follow.
Okay, so...
The first thing to find out is, are blacks committing crime in Milwaukee at a higher rate than their population?
Now, nationally, this is very much the case.
So, for instance, blacks are, I don't know, 12 or 13% of the U.S. population.
So we say 6% of the blacks are male, and it's particularly sort of 18 or 16 to 30 who are the big problem.
So it's like maybe, I don't know, what do we get?
12, 6, maybe 2 or 3% of the population at most.
It's a very high estimate.
2 or 3% of the population of black males is, and they're responsible for over 50% of the murders.
Right?
Nationwide.
And this is not just arrests, but this is also crime victimization surveys match up with that as well, right?
Right.
And so there, like, for nationwide, and this is just off the top of my head, you can do more research and all this.
The numbers may not be perfect, but they're pretty close.
So here we have an example where there's a wildly disproportionate amount of murder coming out of the black community, and it's not that dissimilar for assault and other things like that.
And that's not just racism, right?
That matches up with the crime victimization statistics.
And, well, of course, 90% of the murder victims are black as well.
So that's one aspect of things, right?
If blacks are committing a lot more crimes, then they're going to go to jail a lot more.
I mean, that's the way it works, right?
And if we look at single motherhood, again, a big predictor of future criminality, not, of course, absolute exceptions, blah, blah, blah, right?
But 20% of white children are growing up without their biological fathers, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 57.6% of black children, right?
So almost three times The number of black children are growing up without their fathers than white children.
And this matches up with other statistics.
Births outside of marriage, U.S. by race 2012.
Whites, 29% of births are outside of marriage.
Hispanics, 54% of births outside marriage.
I don't know what happened to the Catholic thing, but that's the way it is.
And blacks, of course, 72%.
So, again, not quite, right?
This is someone two and a half times.
So, between two and a half and three times the number of blacks are growing up in single mother households, and you would expect, of course, for there to be an increase in crime based upon just that basic fact.
Okay.
Listen, nothing that you've said so far would I disagree with whatsoever.
However, in Wisconsin, one of the things that we see is that where you have a population who has, according to national statistics, a similar level of marijuana use per blacks, per whites, you see the black population is arrested and incarcerated for this at nearly six times the rate, or better, of the white population here in Wisconsin.
So I agree that you do have all these underlying things, but this is to say that there's more single women in Milwaukee.
This is to say that there's more...
No, no, no.
Even that statistic is false.
Oh my god.
I'm sorry.
This is actually quite instructive.
Well, I'm looking at the study right here.
I get it.
I hear you.
I hear you.
There were about 580, about 5,000, let's see, is this on thousands here, I'm guessing, African-American arrests.
And then Hispanics is just this itty-bitty green part of probably 50, and then whites were like 60.
As a percentage of the total, African-Americans have a substantially Over-related correlation of drug-related offenses versus whites when they both tend to use the drugs at the same level.
Okay.
All right.
Can I give you a couple of rebuttals to this?
Please do.
I'm sure Mike will get me more details on this, so this is off the top of my head as well.
Okay.
Number one, the way that they find out whether people are using drugs is they say, have you used this drug?
Right?
Over the last month or whatever, right?
And it's true that whites and blacks answer yes at roughly equal levels to this, right?
But it does not say a lot about frequency of drug use.
So if you smoke one marijuana joint a month, you're much less likely to get caught than if you're smoking 10 marijuana joints a week, right?
Right.
And what happens is that the whites and blacks answer the question about equally, so I don't know whatever percentages they use, but in reality, the blacks are using it a lot more than the whites.
And also, the blacks, when tested, show up as using more than whites.
Right?
So if you use it more, then you're likely to be caught more.
Another question is, do you use it inside your house or do you use it out on the street?
And blacks are more likely to use marijuana out on the street where they're going to be seen by a cop and they're going to get arrested for that.
Or whatever.
I don't know if you just get arrested for a joint or whatever these days anymore, but that's another issue.
The third issue is that a lot of times blacks are pulled over for a crime Or under suspicion of a crime and have marijuana in the car or marijuana on them, and that's why they get arrested, right?
And so the fact that blacks are either in commission or on suspicion, now you can say, oh, it's racism, suspicion of, but given that the crime rates are higher, that's where you're going to, right?
So stop and frisk policies or whatever, which were actually really asked for by African-American communities, so some pretty obvious reasons.
So when blacks are pulled over for something else and they find drugs on them or in their car, then they're going to get arrested.
So for instance, blacks on average, at least according to one study, speed twice as much as white people.
And so if you get pulled over for speeding and you've got marijuana smoke in the car and you've got a joint in the ashtray or whatever, well then you're going to get arrested for that, right?
For driving while impaired, for possession of marijuana, for speeding, you know, you name it.
And so if you're speeding a lot, more than white people, even if whites and blacks have marijuana in the car at the same rate, Then if you're speeding twice as much if you're black, then you're going to end up with a lot more arrests for marijuana possession.
These are just off the top of my head.
There are a bunch of other reasons as well, which we just sort of don't have to grind our way through.
But just this idea that you can prove racism because blacks end up being arrested a lot more for marijuana use when they tend to use it a lot more frequently.
They tend to use it outside rather than inside.
And they tend to be arrested sometimes in commission with other crimes.
And then marijuana is found or speeding and so on.
This is not proof of racism.
Well, I think those are all excellent points, and I agree with you by and large on all of that.
Wisconsin, however, is at 13%.
The next closest is at 9.7%.
So what would be the extrapolation of other than...
A cultural or a culture of police work, if you will, that would accommodate and help us to understand why there's a 3% difference, a full quarter difference, between the incarceration rate in Wisconsin versus the next one, which is Oklahoma.
What would explain that 3%, even though there are only 6% of that population in our state?
Honestly, I don't have an answer for that.
I just wanted to push back against some of the answers that you had provided.
I don't have the answer to that.
Maybe it's racism.
I don't know.
Maybe it's not.
But I don't have the answer to that.
But the answers that you provided are not proof of it as a whole.
I'm just having a look at an article here, so let me give me just a...
This is from NPR, a known right-wing organization, right?
So, U.S. national average incarceration rate 6.7%, black male incarceration by state 20, hey, maybe we'll look at the same one, 12.8%.
A new study from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee looked at the prison population.
State has the highest percentage of incarcerated black men in the country.
And African Americans make up 6.5% of the state's population and 13% of black men of working age are in state prisons or jails.
And I see native men behind bars.
Okay, it beats the state with an extra three percentage points, right?
So, a big chunk of the state's male prison population comes from Milwaukee, Wisconsin's biggest city.
More than half of all black men in their 30s and 40s have been incarcerated at some point.
And that's, yeah, a pretty big problem, right?
I mean, because it makes them kind of unemployable, right?
Well, absolutely.
And in my conversations with individuals when I was talking in Milwaukee is that the problems don't, you know, it isn't so much that all of these issues of they drive, they speed more, they bring their marijuana with them more, they smoke outside more.
These are all absolutely contributing factors.
There's no question whatsoever.
But it doesn't answer the question why Wisconsin sticks out so far in such a large percentage, other than they really didn't come to the city until very late in the 60s.
And it was a very socialist city.
Wait, sorry, who didn't come to the city?
The black population.
The demographic change in the city happened in the mid to late 60s as they moved north looking for job opportunities in the industrialization.
Milwaukee was a fantastically socialist city.
I'm very proud of it.
They had a socialist mayor, I believe, until 1963.
So how do you take a city that is supposed to be so wonderful for everyone, they then add this non-homogeneous population, and over the next 30 years, 40 years, incarcerate up to half of these individuals?
Okay, I don't have an answer, but let me just take a couple of swings.
And, you know, the good news is nobody has an answer, it seems, at least based on this.
Mike's going to keep looking.
So it seems a lot of it has to do with sentencing policies.
And so the question is, you know, do you go to jail or do you get a warning?
Do you go to jail or do you get a fine?
Do you go to jail or do you get rehab or something like that?
And Wisconsin seems to have a pretty...
I don't know.
I don't want to say harsh because, you know, again, that's kind of judgy and I don't know what the right or wrong answer to all of this stuff is with regards to sort of statist ways of doing things, but they seem to be pretty aggressive when it comes to incarceration, put people in jail.
Now, that, of course, is going to...
So even if the people in Milwaukee, if the blacks in Milwaukee or anyone is committing crimes at the same rate as somewhere else, more of them are going to be in jail if they get longer sentences in Milwaukee.
Right?
It's just overlap, right?
Right.
So that's sort of one issue.
The other issue, of course, is that I think that there's a real cycle in this, right?
And, you know, it's not brain surgery.
It's not particularly innovative on my part.
But if you throw people in jail, well, do they have kids?
Okay, those kids are now growing up without a father, and they've got a single mother environment, and their father's in jail, who's going to be further brutalized.
And recidivism rates for people in jail are very high, right?
Reoffense rates for people in jail is very high.
And then, of course, they're less employable when they come out of jail, and therefore they're maybe more likely to go back into a life of crime or whatever it is, right?
And so maybe they have longer sentences, and this is creating a sort of vicious cycle, so to speak, where there's a lot of resentment against, you know, Whitey took my dad kind of thing, right?
A lot of resentment again.
I'm not saying this entirely unjust, of course, right?
There would be resentment.
That would make sense.
But two-thirds of the black men incarcerated since 1990 were for violent offenses, right?
And one third for non-violent offenses.
Now, non-violent offenses doesn't mean non-violent offenses, right?
Just for those of you who don't know the...
The ninth layer of hell known as the American judicial system.
But if you get arrested for, you know, beating a guy up and you have, I don't know, five grams of coke on you, right?
Then what may happen is they don't have to go...
They've got you on the coke, right?
They've got you on the coke.
Now, if they want to go with the beating up part...
They need a big trial and they've got to have witnesses and the person may not show up for trial.
They may have been killed in the interim or they may have left town or something like that.
So if you beat up a guy and you've got five grams of coke on you, what happens is the DA will often offer you a plea where you say, okay, plead guilty to the coke because we got you on the coke, right?
You don't even, basically don't even need a trial for that.
We got you on the coke.
And we don't want to sit around for six months and spend $20,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 on a trial where the outcome is going to be kind of uncertain because people can change their stories, they can be pressured, they could be witness tampering or witness intimidation and so on.
So we're going to throw out the beating someone up.
We're going to throw out the assault charge and we're going to just get you on the coke because we got you on the coke for sure.
And so even some of the people who are thrown in jail for, quote, non-violent offenses have actually had violent offenses thrown out because violent offenses are much more expensive to prosecute and much more risky to your witness population, let's just say.
And so it's not for sure that all of the remaining one-third are all non-violent offenders.
It's just that they were only charged with non-violent offenses.
So...
Well, that could very well be true.
The Marquette study actually has a chunk in here.
It says the incarceration rate in the 2003 to 2008 period are nearly four times those seen in the 1990s before drug law changes, truth in sentencing, mandatory sentences, three-strike laws were broadly imposed.
Even with the recent decline in incarceration levels, in 2010 Wisconsin still showed the highest incarceration rate.
So you're right.
It could just be that they've thrown out the You know, the assault and battery and just taking them on the drug charge because they strengthen the drug law consequences so greatly over that same period of time.
That could very well be true.
Then again, it could have been just a really bad encounter with a unicorn.
We don't know.
I'm sorry, what was the unicorn thing?
I said it could have just been a little humor there.
It could have just been an encounter with a unicorn.
We don't know.
These are questions that really can't be answered.
What we do know is that a large portion of the incarceration has been caused by the war on drugs, which takes us back to the principle here of You know, they believe in individual responsibility and dignity.
Hang on, hang on.
I think we may have a bit of an answer here.
Sorry.
Okay.
Believe it or not, we've gone to the site, wisconsinwatch.org.
Watch Wisconsin be wheaty and windy.
But okay.
So here, there's an article that says, experts, drug choice, not race, fuels disparities in Wisconsin drug courts.
So in 2002, 27 people died of heroin overdoses in Wisconsin.
A decade later, the toll skyrocketed to 187 deaths.
Last year, State Representative John Nygren, who is also a Republican, broke away from his party's historical tough-on-crime stance to sponsor a handful of anti-heroin laws with broad bipartisan support after his own daughter almost died from heroin.
The measures boosted funding for heroin treatment, increased the availability of drugs to counteract heroin overdoses, and provided immunity for people reporting overdoses.
Heroin has quickly become the most visible drug on the radar for those who work with addicts and in the state's criminal justice system.
It is the emergence of this drug that partially accounts for the racial disparities in Wisconsin's drug courts.
Quote, when I look at the racial numbers from 2009 to today, the proportion of African-Americans has gone down as the proportion of heroin addicts has gone up.
It's a problem with heroin.
It's such a dangerous drug in terms of the dangers of overdoses.
So 90% of heroin users are white and most are young and live in the suburbs.
By contrast, hospital studies show that African Americans are much more likely than whites to abuse cocaine.
And one University of Wisconsin-Madison expert said heroin addicts tend to commit less violent crimes than those on cocaine.
Many drug courts exclude violent offenders from participating.
And so...
Yeah, so if you're a peaceful drug user, maybe you'll get rehab, but if you're a violent drug user, you're not likely to.
And if you're more into cocaine than heroin, you know, heroin, if I remember rightly from, oh gosh, Rudyard Kipling's first short story about an opium den, then if you're into cocaine, you're much more likely to commit a crime, a violent crime, than if you're in heroin, which just kind of makes you sleepy and imagine that you see babies on the ceiling or something like that.
Yeah, heroin's been difficult in the state.
We've had eight deaths in, I'm sorry, six or eight deaths just in this western Wisconsin area of Wisconsin that I live in.
And it has just decimated the population over here.
And the last thing, again, this is right on the edge of what can be talked about with regards to race and crime, but according to a bunch of experts that I've had on this show, there is a standard deviation in IQ difference between whites and blacks in America.
Now, Criminals tend to be concentrated in the high 80s in terms of IQ. Because people who have an IQ of 130, you know, this evil genius thing tends to be kind of a myth.
A lot of people, they go into politics.
They go into legal crime.
It's illegal stuff.
It's too risky.
And, oh yeah, and as Mike points out, white heroin users die more often, as do all heroin users.
So that...
They're not in jail because they're six feet under.
And so if it's true that there's a standard deviation difference in IQ between whites at 100 and blacks at 85, then you would expect a slightly higher concentration or maybe even more than a slightly higher concentration of criminality among blacks because there is this IQ differential.
You know, whatever the cause of it is, those are the facts that have been recorded in IQ studies for almost 100 years.
that might be another reason.
And also I would expect that people with a lower IQ would be less good at getting away from police or hiding their crimes or know enough to get a lawyer in front of them or not say anything or not confess or whatever it is.
So that's, again, this is sort of a possible factor, which, you know, I don't know the answer.
It's just a possibility to take into account.
For instance, they have found in general that IQ, if you take race out of the equation, people of the same IQ do roughly about the same in society.
It's just that for whatever reason, there are these testing results that show lower IQ is more concentrated in the black population and lower IQ is in the Hispanic population.
And for those of you who think that's just cultural testing, it's not because...
The cultural neutral tests show the same thing.
It's all the same throughout the world.
And also the even newly arrived Eastern Asians, those from Japan and China, do better than whites on IQ tests.
So I just, I don't know what the answer is.
Again, it's a possibility that needs to be explored.
I find it frustrating that there's such a taboo on exploring these subjects because it would be great to knock the stuff off the table or find a way to solve it, but people are too afraid to even look into the data, unfortunately.
So again, these are just other possibilities.
You know, I have a unique perspective on the question of genetics versus environment.
I was adopted at birth.
I met my birth mother at age 29.
I went from being the youngest of three to the oldest of five.
And I have two half-brothers, two half-sisters.
How did I help you when you were adopted?
I was adopted at birth.
So you went from the youngest of three when you were born, right?
Oh, youngest of three in your adopted family to the oldest of five in your birth mother's family?
Yes.
Okay, got it.
Yeah.
And, you know, it was interesting because the first time I met my adopted brothers and sisters, my sisters actually, we went out to dinner and they were in my car and my sister turned around and looked at me and she said, you have no idea how lucky you were to get away.
My mother was an alcoholic.
It isn't just that half of all marriages fail.
She's been married and divorced four times.
She's on her fifth marriage.
My sister has been divorced three times.
She's on her fourth marriage.
My other sister is on her second marriage.
So there is environmental effects that do cause this.
And what I found in my conversations with individuals in the black community in Milwaukee...
Is that these kids are then targeted at a very young age.
As you know, because marijuana is illegal, the only people willing to sell it are people willing to break the law.
And when I'm willing to break the law and sell it illegally, selling to kids is a small step.
And so these kids get picked up.
And in fact, the study shows us that incarceration begins with these kids around 15, 14, 15.
They're identified by the police.
And once they're on the radar, they're targets the rest of their life.
And with the war on drugs and the incentives that were given to the police departments for more money if they arrest more of these individuals for just drugs, doesn't matter the color, but now that we've already identified them, it creates this slice of pain and trouble within the community that exacerbates itself it creates this slice of pain and trouble within the community that exacerbates itself on top of all of the other things
The single motherhood, the welfare state, and all of those particular problems that are created within that system.
You're absolutely right.
But it comes from this first interaction.
It's sort of like your conversation on Freddie Gray.
Freddie Gray didn't die in the back of that truck because one day he woke up, he got arrested, and he ended up in the back of the truck.
There is an entire series of things that happened before that that set him up for that bad day.
And it's much the same in that black community.
And so anyway, my experience is with my adopted family.
In fact, after I met him, my sister came over here and lived with us and nannied for us for two years.
We gave her a stable home.
We helped her to quit smoking.
We started, you know, I know you're an atheist.
We started taking her to church every Sunday and at least getting some regular stability in her life.
Hey, don't get me wrong, man.
Religion is way better than nihilism.
So, I mean, if she had nihilism and you gave her some good old juicy God injection, more power to you.
Yeah, and so what we saw over time was that once she stopped Going through these cycles of bad decision-making, through these cycles that she had grown up with in this dysfunctional household, she was able to then take better control over her decision-making.
She's like me, a very high IQ, she's very conscientious, very hard worker, but when I found her, she was making $7.50 an hour working for Greyhound at the bus stop.
Not because she wasn't capable of more, but because of drugs, and because of an unstable home, because of the divorces, because of the alcoholism.
There was no stable foundation for her.
And in these black communities, because of the war on drugs, we've just destabilized so many things.
Not that that's the only cause.
No, you listen, man.
You can't dislike...
I'm not saying you do, but...
You can't dislike the black community and saying that they're mere passive shadows cast by the war on drugs.
There are choices within the black community.
And we know that because the black family used to be more stable in many ways than the white family, up until the welfare state and up until things like...
So blacks can make better decisions.
They have in the past.
And we need to keep encouraging those better decisions in the present.
Because the moment you start laying external sources to where people's lives end up, Only.
External sources have an effect.
Don't get me wrong.
Of course, right?
But there's genes and there's environment and there's choice.
And, you know, to my knowledge, I'm certainly no expert on this, the maximum amount that people can find for a genetic basis for intelligence is about 60%.
Well, that's a whole 40%.
That is a lot, right?
I mean, that is a lot that can be...
Now, if you just say, well, the black family because war on drugs, black family because, well, no, there are choices involved there as well.
And I just, I would never say that to white people.
Like, I'd never say, well, you know, black crime is high, therefore white people are racist and you can't blame them.
It's like, no, there are choices.
There are choices.
And, you know, children living with their mother only for black community, it was less than 20% in 1960.
In 2013, it was 43.6%.
Are we saying there was less racism against blacks in 1960 than in 2013?
That can't be the case.
Blacks who make better decisions.
No, but we can say that there was less of an execution of the war on drugs in the 1960s and the 1970s, the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s.
And so as an underlying cause of the problem...
Yes, but now that there is a war...
Sorry to interrupt.
Now that there is a war on drugs...
That's not why black people get arrested.
Because that's like, well, they have no choice, they have no capacity, they have no, it's a war on drugs, so of course they're going to end up doing this, and of course they're going to end up doing that.
Well, there's lots of black kids who don't.
We need to encourage and remind people of all races about the choices that they have, and not just say, well, there's a war on drugs, you've got no chance.
No, I agree with that statement.
That's a very fair statement to make.
Absolutely.
But at the same time, we also have to acknowledge that when you arrest someone for marijuana at 15 and 17 and again at 18, now it's on their record.
And again at 19, it's on their record.
Now there's no college.
Now employers don't want to hire them.
They have nothing to do.
They have nothing to do but sit home and do drugs and escalate that problem even further.
And not that that's the right thing to do.
No, no, no, no.
No.
See, you're right back into this.
I mean, I gotta tell you, I mean, I hate to use the R word, but But now they have nothing to do but.
They have no choice but to do drugs.
Do you get that you're taking away moral agency from an entire group of people?
What I'm saying is that when you take away opportunity to do other things, like be productive, there is a tendency to be unproductive and destructive.
Well, do you not think that lots of people are facing challenges and have faced challenges in the world?
And do we then say, I don't know, well, see, the Asian Americans, they were thrown in concentration camps in America, and all of their property was taken from them and so on.
So naturally, they all turned to drugs.
Would you say that about Japanese Americans?
No.
So this idea that there's just some external cause, that they have no choice, but that's all they can do, I reject that.
Would you say that the war on drugs was focused on the Asian community, or would you say that the black community was more focused on than the Asian community?
Well, we just went through all of this.
No, you're saying that traumas result, like, well, they've got no choice but to do drugs.
It's like, well, lots of groups throughout history have gone through significant traumas, and they don't all turn to drug use.
And I reject the idea that we just have to take away responsibility from black people because there's a war on drugs.
I think we have to keep saying the war on drugs affects everyone.
The war on drugs affects everyone.
Like I say to my own listeners, don't do drugs.
It's not worth it.
The downside is too big.
I mean, I wouldn't do drugs even if they were legal because I don't want to mess with the machinery.
But, you know, don't do it.
And, yeah, look, I grew up in a crappy neighborhood.
I grew up in what could colloquially be called a kind of like a ghetto.
And there were bad examples all around me.
And the idea that, okay, well, I had no choice but to do X, Y, and Z. Boy, if people had told me that over and over again, where the hell would I have ended up?
There's a huge issue in the cultural side of acceptable behavior.
There's no question.
And when you've talked about this...
And I think that you are absolutely right.
When their role models are single men rolling around in shiny cars with no jobs, guns, and this, and that becomes an icon in the community, it's absolutely a problem.
And that probably plays...
As large of a part of them moving into that culture of drugs as anything does.
But that's not something that's going to be fixed by incarceration or by ending the drug war.
But it's not going to be fixed by you saying it's inevitable either.
Well, I don't think I said it was inevitable.
I was simply pointing to things that...
They have nothing to do.
A couple of times, listen back to yourself.
You'll see it creeping in.
You're giving this carte blanche.
Well, you know...
I don't know what you think.
Like, well, there's this war on drugs.
They have no choice but to sit around smoking drugs because their opportunities have diminished.
It's like...
You know, is it worse to...
Hang on.
Is it worse to have your economic opportunities diminished?
Or is it worse to be dragged off to fight a war for five years?
Right?
So, you know, lots of blacks and whites were dragged off to fight a European war for five years.
Or I guess in America it was three or four years.
That's pretty bad.
You're out there shooting people, getting shot at by people, getting wounded, seeing your friends die and all that.
I mean, that's worse than having your economic opportunities diminished.
And these guys didn't all come back and start doing drugs and get thrown in jail for drugs.
Drugs were illegal back then, too.
And so this idea that, oh, you know, we've got to change our standards for the black community because there's a war on drugs and the economic opportunity, so of course they're going to do drugs.
I reject that.
I reject that completely.
I think that we should just say no.
Same standards.
Because I can't lower standards for the black community.
I can't do it.
Because that would be admitting that they're incompetent and incapable and they can't get better.
So we've got to lower our standards.
I mean, would you say what you're saying to the Asian community?
Well, the Asian community faced some opposition and some racism.
So of course they had to sit around smoking opiates.
No.
I wouldn't say that to the Asian community.
I sure as hell isn't going to say that to the black community.
That's an excellent point.
Children in single parent families by race, 2013.
Blacks, 67%.
Asians, 16%.
The people who are the most disadvantaged need the highest standards.
You know, when I grew up, I came from a family with unbelievable dysfunction.
And I've gone into it before.
Violence, mental illness, I mean, death.
I mean, just crazy stuff.
Now, I didn't get a break.
Like, nobody said to me, oh, you know, you don't have to write this test because you can't study at home.
You don't have to write this test because you haven't got any sleep for two nights because of X, Y, and Z in your family home.
I was held to the same standards as everyone else.
I didn't like it at the time particularly.
I thought it was kind of unfair.
In hindsight, would it have been better?
To say to me, oh, you know, you come from this terrible, disadvantaged environment, so you don't have to do the work.
You don't have to keep up with everyone else.
We're going to lower our expectations for you.
I don't think it would have been that great for me.
I really don't.
I think that would have been allowed to allow my environment and my history to overpower my opportunities and potential.
But I think it's a bit myopic to say that environments can't overwhelm somebody's innate ability or desired choices.
I didn't say that.
No, no.
But that's the basic argument, is that I grew up in the same bad neighborhood as the guys that I lived with, and I got out of it, and I grew up and I got better.
And that's to say that everyone should be able to do that.
No, no.
Listen, don't put words in my mouth.
There are people who are overwhelmed.
By bad environments.
Look, if you have some kid of whatever race who's got an IQ of 75 or someone like Freddie Gray who grew up eating paint chips and getting lead poisoning, yes, I am pretty positive that person is going to get overwhelmed by their environment.
That's not particular to race.
That's just if it's bad enough and particularly if there's physiological damage or if you're just not that smart for whatever reason.
Then you're more likely to be overwhelmed by your environment.
But until there's absolute scientific evidence to the contrary, in other words, there's a genome map, there is perfectly validated disparities between particular genetic patterns, structures, and alleles between the races, all of which are associated with intelligence.
And they've measured the brain volume.
And they've measured the hip width.
And they've measured the when blacks and whites and Asians and different people get born.
And when they've looked at development and they've got brain structures and they've looked at the folds and everything, when everything lines up, I'm not saying it ever will.
God hope it doesn't, right?
If everything lines up and we can say there are genetic differences in intelligence across the races as a whole, Okay, then we can talk about having different standards, but we're not even close to that as far as I understand it.
And again, I'm no expert in this area.
And so there are some people who are going to be overwhelmed by their environment.
But you must still promote free will as much as humanly possible.
Otherwise, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You're screwed.
You say that often enough to kids.
They will internalize that.
And they will act on that.
You say, rise above, rise above, rise above.
It doesn't guarantee that everyone will.
But it sure as hell guarantees the most people possible will.
You know, if there are people half a mile away from a boat that you can't get to them because the current's too strong, you're going to scream at them all to swim, swim, swim, right?
Does that mean everyone's going to get into your boat?
No.
But it means a hell of a lot more people are going to get into your boat than if you say, you've got no chance, you're going to drown.
You're just going to drown.
Forget it.
Don't even bother swimming.
You say, swim, swim, swim, so as many people fight the current as possible.
Agreed.
Thank you for my rant.
I appreciate that.
This has been fun.
All right.
Will you keep us posted about happenings in the good state of Wheaton Wind?
I very well will.
All right.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that.
Thank you, Steph.
All right.
Thank you, Robert.
Up last on the show today is James, and James has called in before, actually had a dream analysis, one of the first ones we've done in quite a while, not too far back.
So he wrote in and said, I've
come to agree with him.
All right.
Welcome back.
That was a great dream, by the way.
I still think a bit fondly.
Hey, how are you doing?
Doing well, yeah.
And thank you.
I also fondly look back on the dream and the analysis as well.
Good.
So you want to have kids, but are the eggs getting a bit dusty on the shelf?
Yes, that is the idea.
That's the problem.
That's the issue.
And what's your time frame?
Oh, well, she is 37.
Turning 38 this fall.
Okay, so before the end of this call, I would suggest, hopefully with the mic still on...
All right.
Obviously, I'll keep talking, because, you know, what an aphrodisiac that is.
A little to the left.
Use your thumb.
Release the panda.
All right.
But more helium!
Anyway.
So, and how many kids do you want?
Oh, I don't know.
Probably two or three, perhaps.
But I'm not stuck on the idea.
Three is like, unless you want the last one to be Gollum, I think three might be pushing the biology a little bit.
Oh, yeah.
Well, we're pushing biology anyway, because she's a divorcee, and she's tried to have children before, and she's done in vitro, and even with in vitro...
It was very difficult, and they did not have results.
So it's very unlikely that you guys could have kids.
We'd be looking at surrogacy or adoption, probably, yeah.
Right, all right.
Well, please pass along my condolences.
That's very tough, and for both of you, of course, if you want that.
Yeah.
Okay, so you've got a bit of a biological and cost hump, to put it mildly.
So when you say the difference between R versus K within yourself...
With regards to kids, what do you mean?
Well, for a long time in my early 20s, I kind of had the idea that I would never have a conventional family.
I don't know why.
It was maybe some rebellion.
Robots and tadpoles!
Maybe not that unconventional.
But I don't know.
As I got to be older and I had some life experiences that prompted me in the direction of wanting to Maybe replicate would be a good word.
What my parents have done to the degree of what good they've done in raising children and being able to impact the world that way.
Not to the extreme that my parents did.
In the last call, I told you that they had seven kids.
That's a little extreme for me as far as volume.
That idea started to become more attractive to me.
Right.
Right.
So that didn't answer my question.
Oh, I'm sorry.
So my question was, when you say choosing between R versus K with regards to having kids, because both R's and K's have kids, because if either one of them didn't have kids, there'd be no R or K, right?
Yeah, I guess that's the...
Part of me is...
I feel a lot of impulses as far as relationships, as far as what I want.
I'm kind of conflicted as to what I want.
I'm sure that you've heard all the New Age, like the Sex at Dawn kind of stuff.
And that at one time was really attractive to me.
And I accept that a K strategy is best for reproduction.
It's best for long-term relationships and all that.
But I... I don't know how I should temper the impulses that I have in myself for extra marital affairs in the future.
It might sound strange, but the desire to have children by multiple women, or at least to have experiences with multiple women.
I don't have those impulses very strongly.
It's not overpowering.
Wait, wait, hang on.
So, do you mean sex with multiple women or children with multiple women?
Because, of course, the two are separate.
Both, yes.
Yes, both of those things.
Okay.
And what...
How long have you been married for?
Oh, I'm sorry.
I have not been married.
How long have you been with your partner?
About two years now.
This current partner.
And is this going to be what you think of for the rest of your life?
I mean, is that thought sort of crossing your mind or...
Yes, absolutely.
I'm actually trying to imprint that thought in my mind.
That's kind of what this call is about.
Did you just spin through Cosmopolitan and whack your penis with a 2x4?
Once again, not quite that extreme, but something like that, yeah.
But it's kind of what this call is about.
I don't know if I'm...
I'm sorry, I'm stumbling over my words, but Okay, let me ask some questions.
Yes, go for it.
Okay.
Is she good at sex?
Yes.
Okay.
And so is your sex life very satisfying to you?
Yes.
And is there anything that you're not getting in your sex life that you could reasonably ask for that's legal, you know, in most 50 states?
Is there stuff that, like, is there some thing that you want to do sexually that's impossible within your, like, you're dying to do sexually that's impossible in your current relationship?
Well, also, yes, and that's where it's kind of...
Other than other women, right?
I mean, just in terms of, like, monogamy.
No, not especially, but there is a...
There's an impulse to...
Youth has a lot to do with it, because I'm a lot younger than she.
And so the youth thing kind of gets in the way.
But logically, I know that it's a great relationship.
Wait, how old are you?
I'm 27.
So she's got a decade or more on you, right?
Yeah, almost 11 years, yeah.
Right, okay.
And, of course, that's a risk for a long-term relationship.
The long-term relationships that tend to work out are where people are closer in age, but you can be an outlier.
I just sort of wanted to point that out.
Yes, that was also kind of what this call is about for me.
That's an issue that I've been dealing with.
Yeah, either you're as mature as a 37-year-old or she's as immature as a 27-year-old.
Or you're somewhere in the middle.
But, you know, either you're ahead or she's behind.
Now, if she's behind, you're probably going to outgrow her, right?
And if you're way ahead, then you're probably going to outgrow her.
Anyway, so that's, you know, if you guys have...
It's sort of like if you're 27 and she's 37 and you both earn $50,000 a year, then you're probably going to end up out-earning her considerably.
And the same thing is true of maturity.
Now, with regards to sex at dawn...
Worst title for the book, because I'm a night owl.
Sex at Dawn, to me, is like how you punish people for having penises in hell.
But anyway, so there's a book called Sex at Dusk, Lifting the Shiny Wrapping from Sex at Dawn, and it's a book which claims to refute the book Sex at Dawn point by point.
I would not base your entire sexual philosophy on one book.
You are now a reader, a variety of books.
Oh, no, I absolutely do not.
I just kind of threw that out there as far as a reference for that angle.
Okay, just make sure you read the counterpoints, because You know, again, there's an R audience out there for sex, and then there's a K audience out there for sex.
Anyway, so...
Oh, no, I guess the conclusion that I came away with with Sex at Dawn, and I didn't actually...
I just kind of skimmed it and read highlights and things like that.
Come on, you look for pictures.
But what I came away with with Sex at Dawn is that it was describing different reproductive strategies in the past, or, I guess, social strategies with reproduction...
However you want to say it.
But it didn't actually advocate the best one for families, the best one for individuals in modern society.
That's not what most people get out of the book.
But again, I haven't read it, so what do I know?
Well, I guess what I'm saying is that I think that the K strategies and all that, I had really good parents modeling a really great, loving, close, K-style relationship with a Mormon family, so I had a really good model that way.
And I... I think that's the best for society, for families, for individuals.
But I guess why I mentioned that is that it's sometimes difficult for me to accept, and I don't know how to temper these impulses, like I said, without religion, without...
It's kind of like the question of if I was on a business trip or something and I couldn't possibly get caught and have an affair, how can I talk myself out of those situations?
like what philosophy is keeping me out of a woman's pants in a situation that I could completely get away scotch tree.
So hang on, hang on.
So hang on.
Hang on a sec here.
Okay.
This is kind of word vomit.
It's kind of going a weird direction, I know.
No, it's not.
It's not weird at all.
This is what you want to talk about.
So James, you have a relationship problem.
What is your relationship problem?
It might be helpful to mention that I might have jumped in a little too early from my last relationship.
Yeah, that may be a symptom.
That's not the problem.
I'm going to assume that your significant other, we're just going to call her Sally, right?
I'm going to assume that Sally doesn't want you to have an affair, and it would break her heart if you did, right?
Correct.
Okay, so if you need some sort of sky god threatening you with hell to not have an affair when you know for sure that having an affair would break Sally's heart, you have a relationship problem and it's not with God.
Obviously, right, yes, yes.
So, Why isn't Sally's broken heart enough of a motivation for you to stay faithful?
Oh, it absolutely is.
Like, I've never cheated on her.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, you said, what would stop me if I could go on a business trip and never be found out?
First of all, that's an impossible circumstance because you can never guarantee that, right?
But the fact that you would have betrayed...
Sally, the fact that you would have to lie to Sally because she'd say, what happened on your business trip?
Nothing.
What?
What did you hear?
Right?
I mean, no, I... I fell on a bike machine.
That's why I can't have sex with you when I came back, because I've got to go for some tests, right?
So why wouldn't that be enough, to not want to betray her in your own heart and with your own loins, to not want to have to lie to her for the rest of your relationship?
Why wouldn't that be enough?
You're absolutely right.
That should be enough.
When I'm looking at it now, it absolutely is enough.
I guess what I'm afraid of is I've always put myself in the position of...
I guess there's some part of me that doesn't trust myself, and I don't know why.
Because you don't love her enough.
Because you don't love her enough.
I'm not saying that is a personal failing of yours.
It's just a fact.
You don't love her enough.
So if love is a response to virtue, does that mean that she's not virtuous enough or that I'm not open enough to her virtue?
Well, you're not virtuous enough.
Right, okay.
Right?
I don't know.
I don't know.
But, you know, I'm never going to cheat.
My wife's never going to cheat.
It's incomprehensible.
And you just, you don't love her enough.
Again, I don't know what the answer to that is, but that's the problem.
If you have to say, well, why wouldn't I betray and lie to the woman I love?
It's like, because you don't love her enough.
Does she know this about you?
Somewhat.
I guess it arose somewhat because, like I said, I jumped into this relationship a bit early.
She was aware of my situation, and I told her that I wasn't ready to be in a relationship, but I kind of didn't want to At the same time, I didn't want to throw away the opportunity because...
Wait, wait, wait.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Okay, so just remind me, if you don't mind, how long were you out of your last relationship and how long had that last relationship lasted before you got into this new one?
I was in my previous relationship for about seven years.
Right.
And then I got out for about six months, but really it was more about like three months.
So three months after a seven-year relationship...
You and she got together, and you didn't particularly want to because you felt it was too soon, but then how did you end up getting together?
Well, at first, we dated for about a month before we got more serious.
We just went on dates and had really great conversations, and then after about a month, we took it up just a notch, but then I moved in with her about a month after that.
What?
What?
Yeah.
Okay.
You date for a month.
It's kind of light and easy.
Now, she knows you're, at this point, just a month or two out of a seven-year relationship, right?
Yes, she knew that.
Okay.
And she was like, that's fine with me.
I completely explained my situation.
I actually told her that I was reluctant.
But, yeah.
She encouraged me to take the leap, as it were.
Did she seduce you?
Somewhat.
After I got out of my previous relationship, I was in the mentality that I had to date people to break out of the post-relationship spell, if that makes sense.
And so I approached her.
I don't know if she seduced me, but she definitely hung on to me.
What do you mean you don't know?
So who initiated sex?
I initiated.
Well, let's see.
Hang on.
I'm reluctant, but here's a boner.
Let me throw a little penis at you and see if you've got your catcher's mitt on.
I think it's safe to say, actually, that she initiated sex.
Okay.
Did she ask you about your resistance and try and figure out what your resistance was to getting romantically involved, or did she just basically sex bomb you?
No, she definitely asked questions and showed a lot of sympathy and wanted to go forward anyways.
Had you resolved those issues and were ready to move forward before she seduced you?
I thought so, but I was blinded, of course, as you can imagine.
Probably not, no.
Yes, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, that's true.
So you got dicknapped?
No, not, well, maybe a little bit, yes.
Like, not by her, but by myself, maybe a little, yes.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, unless you're auditioning for Lars and the Foreign Girl, or whatever the hell that movie, Lars and the New Girl, unless she was, in fact, made of polyvinyl, you were not dicknapped by yourself.
You were dicknapped by her.
That's basically when you get kidnapped by your penis, right?
Oh, right, but it just feels like it, that feels like not holding myself accountable.
There's that.
Not right?
Well, of course you're still accountable, but when a woman puts the moves on a man, it's got a lot of power, right?
I mean, our brain shuts down.
There's only enough room for blood flow to one place at a time for a man, right?
And unless your nipple is the size of a hedgehog, it's going to one other place, right?
Right.
All right.
And...
When in the relationship did you find out that she was basically infertile?
Early, actually, the very first conversation we had.
Okay, and what were your thoughts at the time about having children?
It's not necessary to have biological children.
There's in vitro, there's surrogacy, there's adoption, there are a lot of kids to adopt out there.
At the time, I was of the attitude, and as a rebound from my previous relationship, Where the woman did not want to progress in that direction at all.
Like no kids at all?
Yeah, she was like, maybe in my mid-30s.
I might want to have kids later.
Yeah, I mean, but so, okay, in vitro and I guess the surrogacy and in particular adoption.
I mean, adoption is expensive and risky.
Yeah, of course it's risky, yeah.
Because...
You don't know what, you know, people aren't all the same.
You don't know what kind of brew you've got, right?
Yeah, but there are options that are attractive because I have a large family, especially for, like, surrogacy, and there are adoption options.
Wait, hang on.
Are you talking about using one of your siblings as a surrogate?
Yes, actually.
That has been discussed.
Oh, my God.
I don't know.
Is that weird?
I gotta tell you, I don't know.
Objectively, it's a little weird to me.
Okay.
I mean, whatever happened to getting married and having kids?
Well, you're dusty, but I got some right bags over here that my sister could...
Because nothing complicated could come out of that.
Well, it's less risky than adoption in a lot of ways.
But I'm also talking about adopting from within my family.
Because we've had a few actual pregnancies within my family.
Adopting from within your family?
Yeah, yeah.
Dude, can you not find a normal girl your own age who wants children?
As you may know, it's very difficult, actually.
Well, it is kind of difficult if you end up moving in with a woman after a couple of months of dating when you just got out of a seven-year relationship.
It's infertile when you might want kids.
Yes, it's a little difficult.
I often find that if I repeatedly crush my hand with a hammer, it's hard to play piano.
But it may not be the piano's fault.
Well, personally and professionally, I never planned on having kids at this point in my life.
It's just, she's really amazing to the level that I want to consider that for her.
She's not amazing to the level that you, oh my god.
She's not amazing to the level where you can't really find a good reason to not screw around on her.
Like, I gotta denormalize that for you.
That's R. Now I get why you're R versus K. I get why.
Because maybe your cock is K and your heart is R. I don't know, right?
I don't know.
Your cock is R, your heart is K. I don't know, right?
But you're not in alignment, right?
If this woman was the treasure that you say that she is, then that would be the only reason you need to be faithful.
Well, can I explain why I threw that out there?
Because I have no plans to be unfaithful, and I don't think that I ever will be.
The reason that I threw that out there was to...
I'm kind of wondering if...
Because it feels like a very intense struggle within myself, I'm wondering if there's anything...
When I say a struggle, I mean that I don't think I'll ever...
I'll ever fall to the temptation, but I feel it a lot.
Sorry, you're just filibustering here, so I've got to interrupt you.
Would you be able to go to Sally and stand in front of Sally and say, I have no reason to be faithful to you that I can find, because no God.
Only sky ghosts could make me keep my penis pointing at you.
No, no.
You would not stand in front of her and say that?
No, I would not.
Okay.
So you're already hiding something from her.
Well, that's not true, though.
That's not the only thing that would keep it, of course.
You said, and you can listen back to the repeat of this when you want, I couldn't find a reason to be faithful to her if I knew I could get away with it.
I don't think that I was kind of, like I said, I think that I need to explain why, once again, why I brought that perspective.
No, no, I don't want you to explain it.
This is something you brought up.
Now you can say, I don't believe that, in which case we've just wasted a half an hour of our precious time together on this planet talking about something that's not at all important to you, even though it seems very important to the relationship.
I don't want you to explain it away because that would explain away the entire value of why we're talking about this.
And I think we need to talk about this.
I think it's very important to you.
It's not that I would ever cheat on her.
Let me explain what the temptation...
Let me replace cheating because it's not...
Let me just alter the course slightly.
It's not that this has been a total waste.
But instead of saying cheating...
Um, rather saying, leaving a good woman who isn't, who might be a little tougher to like, you know, reproduce with, but I can still fulfill all my other goals.
No, no.
She's, she's impossible to reproduce with.
Okay.
So where I can't reproduce with her.
Sorry, Mike, you had something about professionals.
Yeah, you can Google it yourself, but there's quite a few professionals suggesting a lot of reasons why using a family as a surrogate may be problematic.
I'll just leave it to that for you to look in.
Oh, okay.
I thought it would be better because it was more closely genetic, but that's problematic.
But either way, it doesn't really bother me.
Wait, wait.
What doesn't bother you?
Using a surrogate outside the family.
That wouldn't bother me if I found that it was problematic to use one inside the family.
But I appreciate that note.
But I'm more in danger of leaving her because I have some idea of what I want because of an R-impulse, similar to cheating.
But I wouldn't ever cheat.
I'm not tempted to cheat.
But maybe I'm worried that I'll leave her because I'm blinded by some R-impulse.
I'm worried that I'll leave her because I don't see...
Okay, but it's the same thing, right?
So you're afraid that some impulse is going to cause you to betray her, whether that's leaving her or having an affair.
You're still betraying her, right?
Right.
OK, sure.
Now, not that every leaving of everyone is a betrayal, right?
I mean, I broke up with people because they betrayed me.
But I'm just sort of pointing that out, right?
I mean, you would leave her because you didn't love her enough, which is not a fault on your part or her part.
It's just the reality, right?
Or you would have an affair with her because you didn't love her enough.
Because when you love someone as much as you can love and then every next day it's 1% more or 10% more.
It just amazes how big the human heart can grow.
But if you really love someone, then you won't leave that person, and you won't have an affair on that person.
Now, you're not there yet, right?
Because you're still worried that you're going to sabotage yourself in this relationship.
But my question is, why are you automatically assuming that it's your fault?
This woman has shown poor judgment in getting into a relationship with you that quickly after the end of a seven-year relationship when you're still expressing hesitation and reluctance and concern.
She sex bombs you and gets you into a relationship.
Plus, didn't she move in a couple of months after dating?
Yes.
Okay.
Bad, bad decision.
To move in, I'm just giving you the outside view.
I'm not right.
I'm just telling you my view.
Bad, bad decision to a guy just got out of a seven-year relationship.
He says he's reluctant to get involved.
You have sex with him and he moves into your place.
Does that seem like good judgment to you?
No, absolutely not.
And actually, I've been listening to this show long enough that I dreaded this conversation for a long time because I knew this would come up.
Right.
And you didn't, you know, you didn't call in with this and say, hey, what do you think, Steph?
Would this be a good idea?
Again, I can't tell people what to do, but hopefully some perspective will be helpful.
Well, the dream analysis was a little easier that way, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
No, but it's good.
It's good that you called in, right?
So this is why I'm saying you're having relationship problems.
So if you don't love her enough, it's partly because she overrode your emotions with your penis.
Which women can do.
And men can do, I guess, too.
I mean, but I think male sexual desire is a little less manageable in some ways.
I mean, evolutionarily, that would probably be the case.
But she got involved with you.
She's much older.
She's much older.
Right?
She's, what, 11 years older?
Yeah, close to.
Right.
She's 11 years old.
She's hitting puberty.
You're just getting born.
She can drive.
You're five years old.
So she's got a whole lot more experience in this world than you do.
She's hopefully a whole lot wiser.
She has a kind of power because she's 11 years older than you.
And two years ago, you were 25 years old.
Your brain is still a few years away from maturity, from final maturity as a man.
And two years ago, she was 36 years old and you were 25 years old.
You had just came out of a relationship you'd been in since you were 17 or 18 years old.
So you had very little dating experience.
She's already been married and divorced.
She's 11 years older, far wiser, far more experienced, and she overrode your preferences with sexuality.
Not just sexuality, actually.
Sexuality, I would say, was 30 or 40% of the allure.
No, I'm not talking about that you're only attracted to her sexually.
What I'm talking about is that any woman in her 30s is going to know, particularly about a man in his 20s, that for him...
Okay, you're right.
I'm sorry for that.
That's a distraction.
You're right.
Totally.
And then she's like, I'm going to have this 25-year-old guy move in with me.
Was that what was best for you?
No.
Let's just pretend you have no moral agency, just for the moment.
Just for the moment.
Right?
Just for the moment.
Let's just pretend that you're a penis with legs, right?
Was it best for you that she got you into bed with her and got you to move in with her?
I don't believe so, no.
Alright.
So why did she do it if it wasn't what was best for you?
Because she needed help.
What do you mean she needed help?
She has two dogs and she was just having trouble making it not financially she's very stable financially but just time-wise with the dogs and she was and emotionally she needed emotional support.
It had been about a year and a half after her divorce but she She just needed help.
She had moved here away from all her family.
So, yeah, she just needed help.
So she was lonely and had two dogs?
Yes, basically, essentially.
So it was her needs that she was meeting, to some degree, at your expense?
Yes, to some degree.
She thought we could help each other.
So this is why, right.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Just, she thought we could help each other, kind of a thing, as I can imagine you understand.
I wouldn't necessarily go to where I understand the things just as yet, because I think that you would recall from that at the moment.
At the time, it seemed like a mutually beneficial arrangement, that's what I'm saying.
Well, no, because you just said it wasn't the best thing for you.
But I thought it could be.
I was somewhat delusional, I will admit, but I thought that it could be.
Well, that's because you didn't have the chance to talk about everything, but you got sex-bombed.
I'm sorry.
Are you still there?
Yeah.
It's because you didn't have a chance to talk everything out and work everything out.
There's no sane human being in the world who thinks that you've been in a seven-year relationship since you were 17 or 18 years old.
Hello.
Are you still there?
Oh, yeah.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, I can.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah, barely.
I can hear you now.
Yeah.
All right.
There's no sane human being in the world who thinks that a guy who got into a relationship when he was 17 or 18 and has been in that relationship for seven years and has been out of it for basically a matter of a month or two, that that's a great time to move in together.
No, it wasn't.
But my living arrangement was not ideal.
And it seemed...
No!
Doesn't matter!
It doesn't matter!
She was 11 years older.
She had more experience and better judgment.
And it was incumbent upon her, and also women know the degree to which sexuality clouds a man's mind.
So it was incumbent upon her to make better decisions.
And she didn't.
She acted for her own preferences to some degree at your expense, which is why when you go out into the world and think about having an affair, you think about acting towards your own preferences at her expense.
You understand?
It's the same thing.
Yeah, I could see that.
You are as concerned with her heart as she was two years ago with yours.
That's what your desires are trying to tell you.
They're trying to tell you that you're with someone who, at least in the foundation of the relationship, did not act in your best interest, used you for her own pleasure at your expense to some degree.
And so when you go out on the road and you think about having an affair, well, that's your pleasure.
What does her expense matter?
Well, your expense didn't matter.
Why should hers?
Yeah, that absolutely could be the case.
I didn't think of it that way.
It's hard to think of it like reciprocity.
Why is it hard to think of it as reciprocity?
That's how our brains work.
Because it's more comfortable to think of it as some Archaic sexual impulse that's down from cavemen.
I don't know.
It's not her coldness towards you.
It's bonobo brain.
Assuming there's no bonobo currently in the relationship, that's a little easier to deal with emotionally.
It's not a lack of virtue.
It's that monogamy sucks and we're naturally programmed to procreate with notholes in trees and warm watermelons and whatever.
A napping panda.
A napping panda.
Mike's Googling it right now.
Nappingpanda.com.
Oh!
Fine, here's my credit card information.
That's right.
Establishedbears.com Anyway.
I know you don't tell people what to do, but how to solve this at this point?
Like, what...
What perspective or attitude should I bring to this relationship?
Well, as I said, I can't tell you what to do.
I mean, I won't, right?
I can't.
I mean, I don't know the ins and outs of your relationship or anything.
I can't tell you what to do.
I do think that being honest is important and I think it's important to say, you know, let's go back to the beginning of our relationship and how, like, did you think I was ready?
I mean, I was telling you that I wasn't and all of that, right?
And let's talk about it.
I'm not saying there is an end, but if there is an end, the end is so often right at the beginning.
Right at the beginning.
How you got together right at the beginning is usually where things are going to go from there.
And so if you're going to have a future, I think you need to solve the beginning.
I'll give you my practical...
Stuff, if that makes any sense.
Yes, yeah.
Well, I think it will.
Sex is for kids.
Wait, let me rephrase that.
Right?
Human sexuality is for the begetting of children.
And your sex drive is to make more of you.
And again, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy non-procreational sex.
Sorry, non-recognitive.
Procreational sex, you certainly can, right?
Absolutely.
But your sex drive is for making more of you.
Now, if you are interested in having children, then if this is not the love of your life, this is a complicated, expensive, confusing, stupid mess of a way to have kids.
I mean, it's ridiculous, right?
I mean, surrogates and adoption and if she's the love of your life, okay, fine, right?
Then you wouldn't trade her for whatever, right?
But if the relationship is not A1 top drawer number one special, then you are treading water and you are going to end up Kind of just hanging out here for a while, and then you're going to start looking into, I don't know, what does surrogacy cost?
I mean, what are the legal ramifications?
What are the risks?
What are the challenges?
Does it work?
You know, I mean, this is all, you know, just have sex and have a kid.
You know, I mean, you could do that with someone.
And I'm concerned that you both seem somewhat needy.
She needed someone, and I guess you'd been in a relationship for so long, maybe you didn't know how to be alone anymore.
In general, says Mike, the cost for gestational surrogacy, including all agency fees, attorney's fees, screening and surrogate fees, and medical and insurance costs, ranges from around $100,000 to $150,000, depending on the program chosen.
Now, that's after-tax money.
I don't know what tax bracket you're in, but that could be like a quarter million dollars.
To have one child, you want three children, do you have three quarters of a million dollars kicking around somewhere in the seat cushions of your Volvo?
I don't know.
If you do, you've got to donate to Freedom Aid, right?
But I don't think you do, right?
So, yeah, if you want a couple of kids, you're talking $450,000 to $700,000 through surrogacy.
If the surrogacy even comes to turn.
Because, you know, like a quarter of pregnancies are miscarriages.
I don't know if they put multiples.
I don't know.
What do I know about any of this stuff, right?
But if this woman is worth three quarters of a million dollars to have a family with, then boy, she's a great woman.
I'm not saying that's impossible.
I'm just saying like, holy shit.
That is a class act right there.
If for you to get a family, you're willing to spend half a million to $750,000 before taxes, okay, well, you know, you can have this woman and a family, or you can have a woman, a family, and a big house.
So I don't know.
What can I tell you?
I mean, if she's that great, fantastic.
But if she's that great, I don't see why she would have overridden your hesitation about getting into a relationship.
I don't think why she would have moved an 11-year-old younger man, an 11-year-younger man into her house a couple of months after starting to date him when he just got out of a relationship he'd been in since he learned how to drive.
I'm not sure either.
I guess that's the whole...
Because she is a great woman in a lot of ways.
When you talk about finding a helpful woman, she's the epitome.
When you talk about finding an intelligent woman, she is very intelligent.
After her divorce, she went to therapy.
When you ask, would she be worth three quarters of a million dollars to have a family with her?
That's negotiable, actually.
She's very...
I haven't given you the details of our relationship that shine the greatest light on her, obviously.
Why did she get divorced?
She got divorced because her...
Essentially, her, well, I only laughed just now because she might fall into the category of the people who checked unsatisfied or unfulfilled or whatever it is.
The statistic you bring up often of women who divorce because they're dissatisfied.
Is that the one?
Dissatisfied.
Yes.
Right.
So she was not a victim of any kind of abuse.
Her husband wasn't a drunk.
He wasn't a gambler.
He wasn't blowing all their money.
She was just, for whatever reason, at that time in the relationship, unsatisfied or dissatisfied.
And so she destroyed the marriage.
Essentially, yes.
Okay.
How long did she be married for?
Okay.
About the same, about six years, a little bit less than I've been in a relationship for.
And how long had she dated this guy beforehand?
Two and a half years.
All right, so she had almost a decade to get to know some guy and she realized she didn't like him ten years after, eight or ten, nine or ten years after she first started meeting him, right?
Correct, yes.
Did she get alimony?
No, she didn't take anything.
All right.
So, um, obviously, uh, you know, I just leave this in, in your course.
Um, um, You know, look, let me tell you something very frank about relationships.
You probably already know this, but this is for the guys out there.
Look, man, if this is the best you can do, then do it.
I'm not saying it's not the best you can do.
Obviously, there's women out there who you don't have to pay the price of a house or a flight on SpaceX to have children with.
But if this is the best you can do, then be happy.
But I think that part of you is saying, which is why the affair thing is floating around, part of you is saying, Maybe I can do better.
Maybe I can get a woman who's closer to my own age, who hasn't gone through a divorce, who respects me and my wishes when I say I'm not ready to get into a relationship as yet.
And who is not going to require, you know, eight gold bars and a platinum ring to get big with child.
So if this is the best you can do, and that sounds, oh, is this the best you can do?
It sounds like it's challenging or I'm saying that you can do better or whatever, but this is what you need to do is look in the mirror and say, is this the best I can do?
Is this the best I can do?
I'm a young man.
I'm still working on self-improvement.
I'm still working on self-knowledge.
I'm going to get better and better and better as I move forward.
I'm going to get more wealthy.
I'm going to get more skills.
I'm going to get a better reputation.
I'm going to have a better character.
As I go forward, your sexual market value is going to go up.
Her sexual market value is going to go down.
You're going to be 50.
She's going to be 61.
If you have problems with her looks now, it doesn't get better from here.
Especially, well, no, I guess she won't have kids, right?
So she's not going to end up with the one-two baby punch to the belly.
But if you can look in the mirror and you can say, this is the best I can do.
And look, we do this all the time.
You want a Maserati?
I can't afford a Maserati, right?
So I buy a car and I look at the car and I say, this is the best I can do.
You buy a condo or you say, this is the best I can do.
You buy a watch, this is the best.
You buy a tablet, this is the best I can do.
You know, you can do it with your work.
This is the best salary.
This is the best I can get.
Is it a billion dollars an hour?
No, it's the best I can get.
You know, we do it all the time.
There's nothing wrong with it, but it's really important to do it in relationships.
Now, if you can look in the mirror and say, this is the best I can do for the rest of my life.
Forever and ever and ever again.
Until an asteroid hits the planet.
This is the best I can do for the rest of my life.
And when I'm 55 and she's 66, I'm still going to be looking in the mirror and saying, this is the best I can do.
Because this woman, this Sally, she met a guy eight and a half years ago.
Or eight and a half years before she kicked his ass to the curb.
He was the best she could do.
And then he wasn't.
And he so much wasn't that she just divorced him.
Chewed up his heart, spit it out.
And if he is her age, in other words, if he's in his late 30s now, and she divorced him after knowing him for eight and a half years, she might have completely screwed his ability to have children because she was committed to him and then she wasn't.
Now, you know, maybe they went through this infertility thing.
Maybe he made his choice.
Maybe he doesn't want kids.
I don't know.
But she looked at that guy and said, he's the best I can do for the rest of my life.
That's what marriage is.
The best I can do for the rest of my life.
Now, I can do that.
I look in the mirror.
I think of my wife.
This is absolutely the best I can do for the rest of my life.
And as a minor celebrity, I've got some sexual market value.
She is the best I can do for the rest of my life.
There's not even a close second.
Angelina Jolie could have the brain of Ayn Rand implanted in her left boob hole and it wouldn't even compete.
So if you can look, man, if you can look in the mirror with regards to this woman and say, this is the best I can do for the next 60 years.
I'll say you live to be 87, right?
When she's 98.
For the next 60 years, Sally is the best I can do for the rest of my life.
And especially if you're thinking of having kids, yeah.
You owe that to your kids, and then they're going to have kids.
You owe that to your grandkids.
Relationship with grandparents who are healthy is essential and hugely important for kids.
You can look in the mirror, and you can look at your partner, and you can say, this is the best I can do for the rest of my life, the only life I'm going to get.
If this is the person I wish to share my life with, I wish to share my joys and sorrows with, I wish to share my health and my illnesses with, I wish to share my enthusiasms and my exhaustion with, I wish to share my lust and my losses with, wish to wake up with and go to bed with every night,
if this is the person I'll be happier doing taxes with them than going clubbing with someone else, if this is the person that you can do the very best for the rest of your life, the best you can do, Then commit.
Because that's the K question.
You asked about the R and K. R is not radar.
Well, R is radar.
R is radar.
You're just sending out penis squeals like a bat navigating a cave saying, hey, any available poontang out there that I can echolocate off and go and dump some little squids in?
Whereas the K is, this is the best I can do for the rest of my life.
No doubt.
No second thoughts.
No if-onlys.
No looking back wistfully on your old Facebook photos and your old high school albums.
And no, well, there was this chick on the subway.
Man, she was really hot.
I totally should have talked to her.
No.
It doesn't mean you don't know when a woman's attractive.
You're married, not dead.
But the K is the purpose of monogamous, pair-bonding, sexual relationships is the begetting of children and being the top of a pyramid of offspring.
It's about kids.
It's about grandkids.
And this is the person I wish to blend my multi-billionaire bloodline in and wind herself in with me as I wind myself in with her to produce what I can't imagine would be any better human beings.
Is this the person, not just that it's best for me, but it's going to be best for my children.
It's going to be the best person to create the best children with so that they have the best experience of the best parenting ever.
If that is the person you're looking across the table at, if that is the person you want to call when you have a toothache, if that is the person you want to hold when you wake up from a bad dream, if that is the person you trust with every atom of your heart and soul and mind, then other women are dead to you, sexually.
Just won't happen.
You won't need to worry about it.
I don't sit there and say, oh man, I'm going to go speak at a conference.
I hope I don't Accidentally bang a lamppost.
Because, you know, it's Amsterdam.
There's pot in the air, so...
Is that a sleeping panda?
Hey, if you're not going to have sex to save your own goddamn species, you lazy Chinese bastards!
Don't take stuff to the zoo!
I'm going to show you how it's done!
Do not take him to a zoo!
Don't do it!
It's not taking me to the zoo that's a problem.
It's getting me out of the zoo that's the problem.
African lion safari!
Where all of the zebras go, no!
Steph gets his admissions work, I'll tell you that.
And when you go to the elephant enclosure, remind me which end, because they both work.
Anyway.
Hey, anteater, I've got some termites on my...
Never mind.
I could do this literally for the next 20 hours, so please don't make me...
Ride the rhino horn!
Yes, that's right.
Those crazy Japanese bastards are right.
It is a fertility symbol.
Just not if it comes out your belly button.
Give me some birdseed!
Stay away from the woodpecker exhibit.
That's right.
Actually, no, the woodpecker just breaks its beak on my...
Splintered woodpecker beak gets the ultimate aphrodisiac and sign of totemistic manly fertility.
Got it.
All right.
Let's get back to the corner.
I'm just going through the A to Z of the animals.
Beaver?
Where?
Sorry.
All right.
Want to build a dam that's good?
Colour.
Alright, which animal would you like me to pretend to impress?
Aardvark.
Aardvark.
First in the alphabet, last in the last.
Aardvark.
The animal that makes you go, ah.
Ostrich!
Sorry.
Anyway.
So, yeah, that's kind of the question that you have to ask yourself, which is, do I ever want to be near any wild animals with Steph?
I think we kind of got the answer to that in this call, but there is also a related question of your life.
And, again, I'll tell you what to do, but I can tell you that those are the questions I think that the K inside you is clamoring to ask and have answered.
I agree with you.
Those are the questions.
I guess my real dilemma is, and the reason that I may have ended my first relationship, sometimes I wonder if I left a completely...
Virtuous girl with a few flaws because of my own impulses as opposed to...
Because I thought that I was...
I had the mentality that you described.
No, no.
No, no, no.
No, because if you were the kind of person who would leave a perfectly virtuous woman with a few flaws...
Well, not perfectly with a few flaws, right?
Hang on.
Hang on.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, uh-huh.
If you were the kind of man who would leave a virtuous woman because she had a couple of flaws, then she would be too virtuous to be with you.
You left a woman who was about as mature and sensible as you were.
Because if she was five times more mature and sensible than you were, she ain't gonna be with you, right?
I mean, if you're forming a garage band and you call up Kelly Clarkson to be your singer, she's going to be busy.
She's got a better band, right?
You don't want to be in front of your garage band singing Money Money and all the crap that people smoke on the water and all the stuff that people use to learn their craft, right?
She's just not going to want to do it.
She's moved up.
She's moved on, right?
Tom Hanks got his start in student theater.
He's not going back and auditioning to be in our town in high school.
He's moved on, right?
So you were with someone at your level.
There's no magic in the past where there was some great woman who got away.
Because if you were great and she was great, you'd have seen each other, you'd have locked eyes, you'd have locked loins, and there'd be 12 kids already.
I suppose.
I guess it's been very difficult for me to find closure for that relationship for that reason.
Is it because you're fantasizing that there was this great woman who got away?
Not so much, but just that we...
Not that she was great, but that we were about...
That we were a better fit, just because the woman that I'm with now is arguably much more virtuous in some ways, and stable, and intelligent, and loyal, and all those things, but...
In some way, I feel like we had a deep...
I hate to say this because it feels like such vomit, but I have to say it anyway.
But we had a different kind of connection, a deeper kind of a connection.
I hate the way that sounds coming out, but I have to say it because that's how it feels.
Yeah, that's probably sentimentality in fantasy.
If you had such a deep connection, then you wouldn't have left.
And also, let's say that you had a shallow moment and you said, I want to leave.
If she had truly believed in you, she would have fought for you tooth and nail.
Did she?
Not quite with the teeth and nails, no.
So she didn't fight for you that much when you said you wanted to go?
No, a bit, but not...
No, she didn't...
Well, she didn't stalk me or anything.
No, that's not what I'm talking about.
Come on.
I'm not talking about stalking.
I'm talking about fighting for you.
No, no, because I offered her an out by going to therapy, but she refused.
So, no, she didn't fight.
Oh, so this wonderful paragon of personhood who you had this deep connection with and you'd been with for seven years, you said, let's work it out by going to therapy.
She's like, no, I got to get a mani-pedi.
I'm too busy.
No, she wasn't too busy.
She just didn't believe in it.
She's more into the New Age yoga kind of...
Oh, she was a mystic!
Yeah, so the talk therapists are evil.
Oh, so you had a deep connection with madness.
Uh-huh, yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
That is a deep connection.
Just not with something that's healthy.
I can't deny it, no.
But that's the...
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you keep working on your own virtue and keep working at being a better person.
Commit to be honest with everyone in your life and be awake to your possibilities.
Be awake to the decisions you have to make.
Don't drift.
Don't be apathetic.
Don't be indifferent.
Don't just let things happen to you.
Oh, this woman wants to date me.
Okay.
Oh, she wants me to move in.
Okay, I'll move in.
Oh, she wants me to stay.
She wants me to take care of her dogs.
Okay.
Don't be passive.
Don't be a leaf on the stream.
That is taking this grandiose experiment of human consciousness and letting it go for no reason.
Don't be passive.
Don't be drifting.
Don't be waiting.
Don't be, oh, I guess we could do surrogacy and I don't even know how much it costs.
And I guess we could do it with stuff in my family, but I never Googled.
Like, you're passive, man.
You're drifting.
Perhaps, but I actually have very...
I've described it that way and I understand why you'd have that impression.
And you're right that there's that influence, there's that...
That's kind of going on in a certain way.
I don't know how to balance that as much with my own ambitions as altering them or staying true to my ambitions or altering them to find some new vision, a new dream that I might be missing.
I don't want to pass up a good thing because I'm looking for something that I think might be good in the future, if that makes sense.
It makes no sense.
This is stuff you say to yourself.
No, this is verbal diarrhea that you say to yourself so that you don't have to make any real decisions.
This is just stuff that you confuse yourself and you try to confuse me with a whole bunch of like, maybe this, maybe that, I don't know.
You just say this to yourself so that you baffle yourself and you paralyze yourself.
I can feel it.
My brain is just like separating like this...
You know, like Sputnik at a high altitude.
It's like I'm trying to make a coherent point and you give me this squid ink nonsense back and it's like, I don't know, up is down, black is white, maybe this, maybe that.
It's like, it's just self paralysis.
Okay, I'm feeling a lot of resistance right now.
My brain is fogging up.
Good!
So, something's going on.
Let's see.
Are you passive?
If I'm wrong about that, tell me.
I mean, I'm just telling you what I think.
I don't think that I'm...
No, I think that I'm not passive.
I'm not a passive person.
I'm kind of a prick in people's sides to a certain degree.
Okay, let me give you the evidence that I see.
Yes.
Please.
What if I just have these urges and have sex with someone else?
What if I'm really attracted to someone else?
What if this woman in the past was so much better and I screwed it up?
This is all passive stuff.
What if stuff happens?
What if something happens to me and I end up attracted to someone else?
That's passive.
I was hesitant to date this new woman, but I ended up dating her anyway because she wanted me to.
And I moved in with her because she really needed me.
I guess I needed her too, but, you know, that's passive.
That's letting yourself be pulled along by the gravity well of other people's needs.
Oh, you know, I don't know if I want kids or not, and maybe we've got these solutions, but I've never even spent 10 seconds to Google to find out how much they are or whether it's wise to have a family member as a surrogate.
Oh, no, no.
I was completely aware of the costs.
But not about whether or not...
But also, you know, you can't afford it.
Oh, no, I can pull the funds.
Yeah.
It's not a problem.
You can afford $750,000 for the two to three children you're thinking of?
We've already explored quotes through different methods.
There are different prices.
But yes, for about a quarter million, you can get finance.
And that's what we've been looking at.
James, he asked you earlier when we brought up the price, and you said no.
So I'm a little confused now.
Oh, like we don't have an exact price.
I could tell you the exact price for in vitro, but for surrogacy, we haven't gotten an exact quote.
But I know the ballpark.
So it's a quarter mil for three kids through in vitro?
Oh, no, no.
A quarter mil, a surrogacy is much more.
And a quarter mil is the number that we found, the ballpark range that we found that we could work with for surrogacy.
Although you can pay much more.
Surrogacy for how many kids?
Some say that they will guarantee one.
And that's like a guarantee at $2.50.
They will use multiple...
Surrogates if needed.
So, yeah, for one child.
So $250,000 of after-tax money for one?
Correct, yeah.
And you don't have that kind of coin, I'm assuming?
No, but I could get it financed.
Of course you can get anything financed.
You can get an Iraq war financed if you want.
But the point is that you're then going to be starting to raise kids.
If you want two kids, half a million dollars in the hole.
Absolutely, yes.
It's quite the commitment that way.
Okay, so half a million dollars in the hole, just off the top of my head, I'm going to guess that's going to be $2,500 a month that you're paying just to have kids.
And that's probably a 15 to 20 year payment.
Yeah, essentially, yeah.
Sure.
Does that work for you?
Not at this point, no.
You have no point!
This is my point about the passivity!
She's almost 40!
Did I say the word point?
I'm sorry.
No, what I mean is she's 37 years old.
I know that if you're going to go surrogacy, what, would that be with her eggs or your sperm and the surrogate's eggs?
She has good eggs.
Her eggs are not the problem, so it would be with her eggs.
No, no, no!
She's 37 years old and you still haven't started the process!
Well, she has seen a doctor.
Eggs are aging!
Does she say, well, you know, right?
She's inspected the eggs recently.
That's all I'm saying.
And so it would be with my sperm and her eggs.
So I hope that there's good eggs.
You don't know for sure, right?
You don't know for sure.
And that stuff can change.
Her eggs are getting old, right?
Correct, yeah.
Yes.
So this is what I mean.
Like, in terms of passivity, you're just kind of drifting along.
You have major half-million-dollar decisions to make.
Which time is pressing if you want to use her eggs.
Like once she gets into her late 30s, early 40s, your risk of problems goes up hugely.
This is what I mean by passivity.
I understand.
It's difficult because I never saw myself and I've always been a very not passive person.
I've always made...
The other evidence for passivity is that your last girlfriend let you drift off without even trying out therapy, which means that you were with a very passive person.
And how can you be an active person if you're with a passive person?
How can I be with her?
Sorry, say that again?
So your last girlfriend, which is probably...
She was a passive person, you're saying.
She was a passive person, because mystics generally tend to be passive people, and she let you drift off from a seven-year invested relationship without even trying to go into therapy.
So if you're such an active person, and you're such a go-getter, what the hell are you doing with a passive mystic?
We met very young, as you can...
You were with her for seven years!
If you were active and she was passive, she would have driven you nuts on the third date.
I'm tempted to defend myself, but I don't think it would be productive.
I think it would be more productive to say, why am I tempted to defend myself right now?
Okay, because you don't like the passive thing, right?
So if you want to get two kids at this quarter million, right?
Then you're going to spend $3,163 for 20 years a month.
$3,163 every single month for 20 years.
That's 240 months.
$3,163 of after-tax money.
Which means you probably got to be making four to four and a half thousand dollars a month.
To pay for your two children, that's going to cost you, for 20 years, $4,000 to $4,500 every single month.
And that's at 4.5% interest, which is a pretty good rate.
So that rate's not guaranteed either.
Well, yeah, and the reason that your rate might be a lot worse is because if you borrow money to buy a house, they can always take back the house.
But if you borrow money to make kids, they're not exactly going to repossess your kids, right?
So you're going to get a worse rate because there's no asset that they can represent.
You're describing the reasons that it hasn't happened already.
But do you think that if she was, potentially, like if you say that if she's the right woman, if she's what I want for the rest of my life...
This is a hell of a lot of right women, man.
If you want two kids...
Okay, so let's just say, Mike, can you give me 4,500 times 12?
Just there aren't a lot of virtuous women out there.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Well, if you're going to throw some figure at me, I've been dealing with a lot of figures, but throw them at me, sure.
$4,500 times 12?
Yeah.
At 4.5% interest?
No, no, no.
Just give me $4,500 times 12.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm calculating loans.
Oh, like how much for the year?
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, look, I've got it.
It's $54,000.
There you go.
So you have to have about $54,000 of pre-tax income every single year for 20 years.
$54,000 of pre-tax.
That's above the average salary of people in America.
Just to have children with this woman, you've got to make $54,000 a year for the next 20 years.
Mike, could you do me a favor?
Sure.
Okay.
When you finish paying off...
Oh, actually, no, I can do this even easier.
All right.
Sorry.
Okay.
So, to have children, you are going to need to pay over 20 years over a million dollars.
Because, right, you're paying interest for 20 years, right?
Right.
So the final cost of each child is going to be $500,000, and each child is going to cost a huge amount of money to raise as well, right?
So they say that children cost, I don't know, what was it, $100,000, $150,000 to raise to adulthood, right?
So you're paying 10 times more just to have kids than it is going to be to raise them almost.
And your final cost of the kids as a whole is going to be like $1.3, $1.4 million over the next 20 years.
Those are some very high numbers, yes.
And the fact that you've needed to make this decision for quite some time and you haven't run any numbers tells me everything I need to know about passivity.
Well, like I said, I wouldn't say any numbers.
I had an idea.
Oh, dude, dude, you don't want to be doing this.
You don't want to be doing this at this point in the conversation.
I'm telling you that.
Okay, you're right.
I'm sorry.
You don't.
You really don't.
It's an impulse that's very difficult to fight right now and I don't know why.
Yeah, you want to paper over this, right?
Because you think it's going to be better if you paper over it.
Like, if I say I really want to start a business and I'm involved with a partner and we've really got to start this business and we've got to start it this year and I haven't run any numbers or have any business plan, what would you say to me?
No.
Like, no, you don't really want to do it because if you really wanted to do it, you'd have run the numbers.
Well, yeah, that's what I've...
You're right in the sense that I don't want to do it right now, and we've talked about that, and she's willing to suspend it somewhat into the future, and I don't know how...
You haven't run the numbers!
How long did this take us?
Five minutes?
Don't tell me you can afford this.
You can't.
No, and that's why we haven't started it yet, of course.
I can't do it right now.
Will you afford it next year?
Potentially.
Really?
Oh, come on, man.
Oh, come on.
You can't afford a million dollars over 20 years this year, but you'll be able to afford it next year?
Are you kidding me?
I might have...
We might have the collective income in order to kickstart it together, but we also have very supportive families that want us both to have children, that both want us to have children, so that's also...
And they're going to pay?
Yes, actually.
My mother has said that she would...
That can contribute quite a lot, yes.
So you're going to get your kids from mommy's retirement money?
Potentially.
I'm just throwing that out there.
That is potential, yeah.
Dude, I don't know.
I just got to tell you, man to man, I don't think you want mom buying your kids.
Like, just in terms of just being a dude, being a man in a relationship, I went to mommy for my children.
I don't think it's the best way to have authority and be a patriarch in your family.
Okay, I'll consider that.
I'll have to think about that.
And maybe, just because I had a really passive influence right then when you said that, that was just kind of like, well, they want me to, they want to have a kid, I want to have kids eventually, and they're willing to pay for it, so may as well.
But that's very passive, like you said.
I don't know where all this is coming from.
I thought it had something to do with R&K, but maybe it doesn't seem like...
Well, it kind of does.
It kind of does, I think.
Yeah.
You need to design your life and not just take opportunities.
This woman came along and she wanted to have a relationship, so we're having a relationship.
Oh, she's kind of infertile, but I guess we'll do in vitrio, or we'll do surrogacy.
Oh, I can't afford it, but maybe my mom will pay.
Like, it's just, you're not designing anything.
You're just like in any way, you're like a dandelion in the wind.
Oh, the wind's taking me over here.
Oh, I guess I could try this.
Oh, I haven't really run any numbers and this woman really wanted to go out with me and my last girlfriend was passive and like, there's a pattern here.
No, there's a huge pattern and it goes further than that.
And now that you're describing it that way, I can see that I could even give you more examples throughout my life, but I won't go into that.
You can give me summary versions because it's late and I want to finish the show, but I'm happy to hear some summary versions.
My academic career, for instance, I dabbled in probably a dozen different majors over the course of five years and walked away with one certification but no degree and things like that.
I don't consider it passive because I actively explore these different arenas, but I am passive in the sense that if If I go to a school and I get the wrong vibe, then I'll just kind of shift to somewhere else.
So maybe that's a different kind of passivity.
Vibe?
What do you mean the wrong vibe?
I don't know what that means.
Oh, like I went, for instance, to a very small town university briefly that was full of religious zealots.
So that's the vibe that I'm talking about.
Does your family think this about you in terms of passivity?
Absolutely not.
No, they would see me as probably the most proactive person in the family.
Wow.
So you were with a passive woman for seven years who was a mystic, but they never thought that this might indicate that you have a susceptibility to passivity?
No, because I was completely not passive.
Their experience with me was always rebellious.
You can be very passive and rebellious because rebellious is so often just a reaction.
It's not proactive to be rebellious, usually.
Yeah, I don't suppose.
Perhaps.
My mother did say that I was very easy to raise.
Maybe that means that I was passive.
Right.
Anyway, I mean, this would be something to examine.
I put my usual pitch for therapy in.
I can't remember if you're in or not, but this would be certainly something to talk over with a therapist.
It's just something I noticed in our conversation.
And really, listen back to this conversation as well, because I need to shake you out of this drifting, right?
Because you've got a million-dollar decision to make with this woman and kids, and you've got to make it soon.
And you cannot drift in this area.
Because look, if she wants to have kids and it's not going to be with you, you've got to decide that now just out of any concern for her, right?
Because she's not got a lot of time to screw around.
There was a time when I told her that I had to leave.
I essentially told her that we couldn't be together because I wasn't sure about it and I wouldn't do that to her.
Because I felt that same pressure, that guilt for staying with her.
And leaving the question up in the air when I know that her biological clock is ticking.
And she broke down and cried.
Yeah, but given that you haven't even run these numbers and you haven't looked at this million-dollar liability straight in the face, and look, again, if she's the love of your life, well, first of all, you wouldn't even worry about having an affair on the love of your life.
That's why I'm skeptical about that, one of many things.
But this is a million-dollar liability for having kids that you're looking at.
And that is a fuck ton of money, frankly.
That is a massive, staggering, astonishing, lifetime's earnings kind of money.
And that is a big decision, man.
She better bring a whole lot to the table if she's bringing a million dollar liability with her, which you're not going to have if you get together with someone your own age or even someone older who's fertile.
So, if she's got enough virtue to dig herself out of a million dollar liability, you know, I mean, if she came with a million dollars of debt, but was fertile, would you be like, yeah, I'll pay that debt?
No.
Okay, but it's the same thing!
Other than the fact that she didn't choose this, but it's a reality, the financial reality is the same.
Yes, you're right there.
And I understand the sentiment or the idea that, you know, is this the best you can get kind of a thing.
I guess I'm going to go back to just saying that, yes, this may be the most rational, the most sensitive woman that I can get.
Okay, sensitive, but she still overrode your decision to not get into a relationship, and she still had you move in a couple of months after a seven-year relationship ended.
So I don't know about the whole sensitive thing overly much.
How do you draw the line between seduction and persuasion?
I'm not sure.
Well, your preferences were overridden by her needs.
And yes, you have agency in it, but you're 11 years younger.
And you were the one recently out of a relationship, which means your compass was off.
She was older and she'd been out of a relationship for a year and a half.
So she had a little bit more moral agency.
Plus she's got the poontang and you've got the penis, which means moral agency shifts to the woman to some degree, not 100%.
It takes two to tango, maybe, but one person is leading.
So, anyway, this is just something to mull it over and think about it.
I sort of invite you to, you know, I saw a show this other day, the character said, someone said to this character, what are your dreams?
He says, dreams?
I don't have dreams.
I have goals.
And I think I'm trying to pull you out of the dream and put you into the goal and get you into the driver's seat, figure out what you want and really work to get it.
And don't drift and don't respond to other people's needs.
And this million dollar hole is a very real thing.
Like you don't want to have kids with this million dollar hole and then find out that financially things are tough and stressful.
And then God help you get divorced when you're still on the hook for a million dollars.
Plus maybe you've got child support and alimony.
You can live in the back of a fucking gremlin down by the river.
Anyway, it's just things to think about.
All right?
I appreciate it.
And this conversation took a much different direction than I thought.
And I'll have to listen back, I'm sure, to fully understand why that is and what my expectations were.
But I appreciate you taking the time.
My pleasure.
Listen, man, I'm blunt because I care.
I appreciate it.
And so I hope you accept that.
Well, thanks everyone so much for listening and have yourselves a wonderful, wonderful night.
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