Dec. 18, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:45:05
2867 Sexual Economics - Wednesday Call In Show December 17th, 2014
Since losing my religion – I’ve lost many of my religious friends. How can I connect with people who recoil when I bring reason to the relationship? My wife asked permission to “flirt” with another man two months after we got married and I kicked her out and asked for a divorce. Did I overreact and should I take her back? Includes: living for heaven, betting on the delusions of the tribe, the joy of wisdom, philosophy as masochism, virtue isn’t a money shot, hatred is the payment for change made by the stagnant, an attack of male sexuality, pornography, rape fantasies and understanding relationship templates.
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And Mike, who do we have on first?
Alright, up first today is Scott.
Scott wrote in and said, Since last year when I accepted UPB in favor of Christianity, I've been in many talks with some of my closest Christian friends.
I am working on improving myself, but I'm finding connecting to other people to be hard, not because I can't be social, but because I can't be honest and social.
I do not want to be what you refer to as me plus.
I do not want to be seen as the problem guy either.
If people look for the value you can offer them in a relationship, whether it simply be friendships or more romantic in nature, then how can I avoid being me plus if just being me is inconvenient or I am not able to bring any value?
Right, right.
Well, the me, just for those who don't know, and I talked about this in the Robin Williams presentation, which I think is climbing close to 600,000 on YouTube, but the me plus is you have to be you plus talent, you plus making people laugh, you plus being sexy, you plus money, you plus looks, you plus the capacity to grant other people things that are in your power, you plus having the power to Be a casting agent or whatever.
Politics is the ultimate me plus.
Politics is populated by people so hollow that they feel that without the forced redistribution of other people's wealth, nobody would give them the time of day.
It is a massive cover for the insecurity that is narcissism.
Of course, kind listener, I am not putting you, Scott, into this category.
I just wanted to sort of point out how extreme...
It can be.
Me plus tattoos.
Me plus a beard.
Anyway, so there's a lot in what you said, as I'm sure you're aware.
So where would you like to start?
Yeah, so there is quite a bit on what I said as far as I could give more background.
If you think that would be helpful.
No, no.
See, if I say there's already a lot in what you said, adding more to it will not solve the problem.
You know, you're weighing me down with a lot of stuff.
Here, let me put some more stuff on you.
So no, I mean, in what you said, there's enough for a couple of hours' conversation at least.
Right.
So, the phrase, close Christian friends.
Yes.
Okay, help me understand that.
Close how?
Well, I don't really have any friends anymore, so they were close, I should say.
Yeah, that's important.
It's tragic, but it's important.
Because if you live in reality, you don't have a huge amount in common with people who live in reality.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I put in my original response, the second sentence, you know, that Mike reads out that this has resulted in me having no friends, but I guess that got cut.
Maybe I missed it, so I just wanted to double-check.
And please understand, look, I'm not saying no one can be friends with people who don't share fundamental ideologies or fundamental belief systems.
I'm not saying that, and But in terms of closeness, since I've always argued that we really can only connect with each other or with anyone through reality, saying that you're really close to someone who has opposing metaphysics, religion versus atheism,
at least philosophical atheism rather than socialist atheism, which is just another mafia gang, philosophical atheism, rational atheism, UPB-based atheism, free domain atheism, dare I say, It's so fundamentally different from religiosity that the only connection that philosophers can have with religious people is to the degree with which either the philosophers or the religious people are willing to abandon their
belief system.
So anyway, I just wanted to sort of mention that.
Which relationships are you either working at keeping or working at establishing at the moment?
Well, my trouble is I would go out.
I can be social.
I do cross-country running and I have a group I meet with there.
And I can talk to people in that sense.
But a lot of...
I guess if I don't really feel like where...
You see, I'm having trouble phrasing it, but ultimately, since I suppose it's my moral foundation, it kind of moved over.
And I totally disregarded the last one.
I feel like I wouldn't know where to stand.
Not sure what you're talking about here.
You've got to give me some more specifics.
I mean, these windy abstracts don't really help me connect with you either.
So where is it that you're having trouble in your relationships?
What specifically is happening?
Well, I'm saying that I really don't have any relationship, so there is no specific thing with any person.
It's just that when previously, when you lived your life and you think what morality is, is...
Kind of denying yourself certain things and, alright, you don't do this, you don't do that, and that's kind of what you live for, and then you, you know, I've read UBB and I understand that better, and you think, okay, now this makes sense, uh, More sense as a theory of morality, so I'll go with this.
But with UPB, there isn't...
It's not...
You have to do this, and you have to do this.
It's things you don't do.
And where you want to go besides not going against the non-aggression principle is up to you.
And I'm just saying, since I define my...
My life by Christian morality in the first sense, now it's kind of left me to a point where, you know, before I was just, you know, at school, you know, you get yelled at, some things would happen.
And now it's kind of like, well, if I was living all of this in the first way, and that's how I live my life, now I don't have that.
Now...
It's tough to live life in the moment as living for yourself today, because it's completely changed.
Yeah, I mean, Christianity and religion, to use a video game analogy, is like a railer.
It's not open world.
Right.
Thou shalt is almost infinitely more restrictive than thou shalt not.
If I say, thou shalt go to a particular house in Cincinnati, well, there's only one place you can go, if you believe me.
Whereas if I say, thou shalt not go to a particular house in Cincinnati, the world is your oyster, except for that particular house in Cincinnati.
So from that standpoint, Christianity and most religions give you a positive recipe for virtue.
It's not Don't kill, don't steal.
But it's also do all of these other things, right?
Pay your tithe and attempt to save the souls of other people and go to church and love your enemy as yourself and whatever particular flavor people are interested in.
It's a train track, right?
Yeah.
Whereas UPB is not.
I mean, it's teleporting.
It's three-dimensional.
It's go wherever you want.
Just don't.
I mean, it's an open world scenario.
And that's quite anxiety provoking for a lot of people.
Because you're now no longer being told what to do to be good.
All you're doing is being told what not to do if you wish to avoid evil.
No, that's right.
Before, there was a lot about life.
I remember as a kid...
You know, going through, well, not just, it's mainly with school, but some situations that I thought were tough.
And I always thought, you know what, the very, the most important thing, if I could have moral excellence, you know, and strive for that as the most important thing, then everything else is...
Is secondary.
So even though I didn't always like life where I was at, I had that.
But now it seems, now while what I was following before wasn't true morality, right?
So now you take that away and now it feels like, it's like that's what I was living before.
Now I just don't like life.
So it's not that I... Yeah.
Well, because before, what I was living for, it's like, oh no, that's now gone away, right?
So everything...
I can perform stuff well, but everything seems like tasks, in a way.
Sorry, but this is what I would say.
Would you count yourself as an ex-Christian?
Yes.
Absolutely.
See, in switching from Christianity to philosophy...
Yeah.
You are far closer to Christ than if you had stayed a Christian.
How so?
Don't understand that.
Well, Christ overturned everything too, right?
That's right.
Christ walked away from the Old Testament.
Christ rejected Judaism.
Christ accepted life after death, heaven and hell, because, of course, In the Old Testament, you're dead, you're dead, right?
So, Christ walked away from a staggering amount of ancient, I guess, what, 3,000 years or whatever it was, but at that point, ancient theology.
Right.
I mean, Christ walked away from more theology than you have as an ex-Christian.
I mean, you give up 2,000, he gave up 3,000.
Yeah.
And so, in walking the path of Christ, you actually...
Can't really stay a Christian because Christ reinvented, opposed, overturned.
He came.
I said, I'm here to set father against son, child against parent, everyone against everyone.
I come not with peace but to bring a sword.
And so Christ is an emblem of asserting one's own conscience in the face of Overbearing and ancient theology.
And so if you accept Christianity without an examination of your own conscience, then it seems to me you almost couldn't be further away from where Jesus came from.
And it is certainly true, if you think about it, of course, that everyone who founds a revolution is terrified of the counter-revolution or of the continual revolution.
Revolution, right?
So the moment that Lenin got power in Russia in 1917, he immediately began looking about in paranoia for counter-revolutionaries, right?
For those who were not pursuing the ideal now of obedience to revolutionaries who only have power because they were disobedient to the existing power structure, right?
According to UPB, If revolution is universally preferable behavior and all revolutionaries say they have right on their side, then revolution should be continual, right?
But everyone who gets in power immediately wants to, like everyone who stages a coup, immediately wishes to prevent anyone else from staging a coup.
That's inevitable, right?
It's natural.
And Jesus staged just about the biggest coup that can be imagined.
Because his was not an alteration of mere political power.
His was the extension of human life to eternity.
There's no bigger revolution, you could argue, really, in history.
And so, to me, you are walking the path of Christ far more closely by thinking for yourself...
Examining your own conscience and being willing to overturn theological history, you're walking the path of Christ far more closely than if you showed up in your Sunday best and put 20 bucks in the collection plate.
You're closer to that which you worshipped now, I believe, than if you'd continued to do all of the road stuff that Jesus really overturned in his day, right?
Right.
What do you think of that perspective?
I think that's definitely true.
In comparison, there's all this emphasis in the Bible about following what was true and build your house on the rock and all this type of thing, right?
And so you think, all right, fine, I'm just going to pursue truth.
And then it gets to a point where what they told you, you know, to follow truth and what they're telling you are two different things.
So I think I would say that's right on.
I would agree with that.
Now, as you're aware, Jesus faced staggering amounts of despair and self-doubt.
And, of course, was eventually murdered.
And the people, the mob, chose to free the thief rather than the savior of mankind.
Right.
And so all that he strove to save from everlasting damnation literally spat in his face.
He made him wear a crown of thorns, stuck a spear in his side, and freed a priest.
Sorry, and freed a thief rather than Jesus when Pontius Pilate came and said, you know, we'll let someone go free.
And so he was attacked and vilified by everyone, almost everyone he was trying to save and betrayed by Judas for 30 pieces of silver, right?
Right.
If you wish to If you really understand, I think, what Jesus went through, all you have to do is start thinking for yourself.
Now, he had a personal relationship with a deity that I obviously don't believe exists, but you have a personal relationship with philosophy.
And philosophy is something that we impose upon ourselves, but also something which is imposed upon us through the body, through the senses, through the empiricism of that which is real.
And the reason I'm saying all of this is that how long has it been since you made the jump to philosophy?
It was September from 2013, so just over a year, I guess.
Yeah, 14 months or so, right?
Yeah.
And would you say, is it unfair to characterize it as a valley of darkness?
Of some emptiness, of some fear, of some...
It was kind of a weird feeling, because on one side, when morality became empirical and rational, it was very exciting.
Because it was like, hey, all this gray zone that was before, where it's like, well, people were always telling me...
It's in context, but they never would put anything...
In context.
So that part was really exciting, but the part about just my life totally changing and not my way of thinking about things totally changing, that was definitely scary.
So it wasn't all awful, but yeah, a lot of it was.
And socially?
Your relationship with your own mind and with reality and philosophy was, I'm sure, quite beneficial.
That's the carrot, right?
But socially, it's pretty horrible.
At least it was for me.
It's pretty horrible.
I mean, very few relationships survived philosophy for me.
And that's very painful.
And that's why, of course, you don't get a lot of revolutions in thinking.
Right?
I mean, true revolutions in thinking.
You know, Christ mixed it up a little, but it was still religion.
Marx mixed it up a little, but it basically was still religion.
And democracy...
I mean, the founding fathers and the Enlightenment thinkers with the idea of a republic...
I mean it was relatively new and they didn't have the benefit of experience to see just how impossible it is to muzzle the mad dog of the state in any permanent form and it took two, two and a half generations for the government to break the bounds of the constitution and go on its usual village crushing rampage through America and then through the world.
So real innovations In thought are very rare because we're social animals who are devoted to truth.
And most of society has been this tension.
We wish to pursue truth, but pursuing truth comes at the expense of our relationships.
We are driven towards truth because that's what our brains are the best at.
The best at extracting universal concepts from individual instances.
Creating universal rules, universal laws, when we're free to do so.
Right.
And freeing philosophy from the grip of society, of social prejudice, of superstition, of nationalism, well, that's the same thing I'm trying to do here as those who wished to free citizens from the aristocracy, to free the economy from special interest groups, to free science from From religion.
In the pole between our urge to conform as social animals and our drive toward truth as conceptual beings, this is an unholy tension.
And most people as social animals slide towards the acceptance of others.
And those of us, and with the internet now it's become faster and stronger, Or a faster and stronger process, those of us driven towards truth, can now do so, for some of the first times really in history, and accept the loss of tribal status that comes with the pursuit of truth, because the truth is the opposite of a tribe.
I mean, nobody ever refers to mathematicians as a tribe, right?
Or scientists.
There's no, the earth is round tribe, right?
Tribes are always yay costume, as I said in the last show, or yay face paint, or yay biological and geographical proximity.
For men, it's like yay eggs or whatever, but a tribe is bound together by a shared delusion and creates an identity for people that the rational man threatens fundamentally.
When you become rational...
It's sort of this reverse sixth sense situation.
But you become rational.
Other people experience that as you walking up to them and starting to disassemble their bodies.
You know, like some malevolent kid with a Ken doll.
Just out come the legs, off come the arms, twist off the head.
That's how people experience rationality because they founded their identity on shared delusion, on tribalism.
On sports and religion and armies and nationalism and patriotism and so on.
It's all lies, falsehoods, tribal.
Rational man comes along and people feel that they are being disassembled.
People feel, literally, that they are being made insane.
That you are coming along and holding them down and injecting them with a drug and That induces psychosis, and in fact, induces permanent psychosis.
Tribalism is permanent psychosis, but when you live in it and reinforce it with other people often enough, it becomes a kind of reality to people.
Like, it feels true because everyone sees the dragon, and you see the dragon, well, there must be a dragon.
And if someone comes along and says, there is no dragon...
Well, it's deeply shocking to people.
When people say, look, I've just reached into the dragon and there is no dragon.
I've just walked right through the dragon.
They feel like they are going insane.
Yeah.
And they attack, as you would attack anyone who was going to inject you with some drug that would make you mad.
That would be, you would view that as a violation of the non-aggression principle.
Yeah.
I'm a proud American.
Countries don't exist.
You know, it's like a...
I'm on Team Vampire.
Well, vampires don't exist.
And the level of terror and rage that lies in the heartless heart of people who have thrown their lot in with the collective delusions of the mob, I mean, it's horrifying.
Unfortunately, it has to be done.
Sorry.
It's not my fault.
Two things are not my fault, or your fault, Scott, for that matter.
Number one is we are not responsible for the collected delusions of history.
It's not my fault.
It's not my fault there's no God.
It's not my fault there are no countries.
It's not my fault that government violates the non-aggression principle.
It's not my fault.
Some people get mad at me.
It's not my fault that adult relations are voluntary.
I was always told as a kid to shun evildoers.
Shun mean people, shun abusers.
Okay.
Mom, I was listening.
It's not my fault.
You know, the first guy to come up with two and two make four was probably burned at the stake too.
Probably offended some trinary god or something, right?
Yeah.
And it's, you know, because as you know, I mean, in Christianity, one and one and one make one.
It's the math of the Holy Spirit.
But anyway, so it's not my fault that there are all of these shared delusions that human beings have inherited.
It's not my fault.
It's not my fault these things aren't true.
Number one.
Number two, it's not my fault that individuals have chosen delusion over reality.
It's not your fault.
I mean, what they're doing is, you know, if you take sort of the ethics and integrity out of it, they're just rolling the dice.
They're just gambling.
And I get and understand that gamble.
I really do.
I get it.
I get it.
Because if no asshole comes along thinking clearly and communicating clearly, then throwing your lot in with the delusions of the tribe is a pretty good deal.
Because no one's going to come along and overturn anything.
And for most of human history, as you could see from the unbelievable stagnation of most of human history, throwing your lot in with the tribe made really good sense.
Yeah.
I mean, tribe won.
And then a very small minority of incredibly brave people took...
Bullets and flames and human sacrifice and torture and imprisonment for the cause of truth.
And since then, you know, it's been more of an explicit tension.
So there is an instinct for everyone to go along with the tribe.
Because usually when you didn't, you got killed.
And if you did, you got eggs.
You got to reproduce, right?
Right.
And so I get, and I completely get and understand why people are like, yay, costume.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Like, if no asshole comes along who speaks the truth, you've made a really good bet.
And throughout most of human history, that bet was really good.
From a rational calculation standpoint, yeah, that's what you want to do.
But that's not how it is anymore, right?
I mean, lots of people coming along and shaking things up and bringing better and clearer thoughts to the world.
And so I become increasingly less sympathetic, which doesn't mean condemnatory.
It just means less sympathetic to people who decide to throw in with tribal batshit.
Right.
I mean, come on.
Come on.
There's been enough revolutions in human thought.
I mean, you've got to know that tribal bullshit is coming under increasing scrutiny.
And so, to me, people now...
Who throw their lots in with tribal crap, they don't really have much right to complain when people come along and try and reason them out of it or reason those around them out of it.
It's like, come on, you've got to see this coming a mile away.
Ten miles away, a light year away.
And so I just, I have less compassion.
You know, to me it's like somebody who's like, ah, you know, I'm not going to I'm not going to save for my retirement.
I'm going to smoke and drink and play the lottery.
Well, one of those may solve your problem, right?
You may die.
You may win the lottery.
You may die young.
But if you don't win the lottery and smoking and drinking doesn't kill you, do I have a huge amount of sympathy?
No.
Not really.
I mean, you just...
You made your choice, right?
It's like people who don't want to have kids and then get really lonely in their old age.
Well, it's not the kid's job to keep you company in your old age, but they made their choices, right?
They get old and, you know, they retire and...
I mean, who gives a shit about you when you're old?
I mean, unless you're doing something great for the community or whatever, I mean, who gives a shit?
There's so many old people who just live alone.
I mean, I knew this because I grew up in a very poor neighborhood and there were lots of single moms and there were old people whose kids either didn't come to see them or I didn't have any kids.
And boy, they were some exceedingly sad and depressing specimens.
And I gave up on bathing.
Just stayed home and did God knows what all day.
Didn't contribute to the community.
Didn't open up their hearts and do anything useful.
Just got increasingly weird and embittered and negative.
And to me, it's like, okay, well, I spent almost six years being a full-time dad.
It's taken a staggering amount of time and effort and energy.
I don't begrudge that.
I think it's great.
I knew what it was going to be when I signed up for it.
And people, they make their choices.
You know, if some woman decides to, you know, screw around in her 20s, get her career going, get her education going, and so on, and then is freaking out because she's 35 and there's no man in sight and her eggs are rotting on the vine, it's like, I just, I don't get where my sympathy should come from.
Everything in life is a cost and a benefit.
Everything is a trade-off.
Everything.
You know, someone smokes and they get cancer.
Like, I'm sorry, obviously they got cancer.
I'd rather they didn't.
But you can take what you want and pay for it.
And there's outside of bad luck and so on.
So these kinds of choices where people say, you know, I'm going to just go with the oldie-time religion and I'm going to go to church and I'm going to be told everything to do.
That pisses me off.
And I think it should piss off Christians, too.
I mean, you're given free will.
You're given an individual conscience.
You're given a personal relationship with God.
So what the hell are you in a herd for?
Talk to God.
Talk to your conscience.
Why are you all in rows listening to one guy drone on about what you should think and how you should act?
You got the Bible.
You got your conscience.
You got your God.
You got your free will.
Break it up a little.
And so, just in brief, there is a social reaction to an independent thinker, or as I like to call him, a thinker.
And that social reaction is to make you as unhappy as humanly possible so that for those who are even tempted by thinking, they can look at you and say, well, shit.
I don't want that guy.
I don't want to be like Scott.
Right?
Yeah.
And this...
And, of course, that's what they tried to do with Jesus, too.
Nail him up.
Feed his followers to the lions.
It's like, well, I don't want to be that, right?
But for a variety of reasons we don't have to get into here, the Streisand effect went out and became a very...
Powerful religion in the world, the most powerful religion in the West.
So if you can get through the 40 days in the wilderness, if you can get through your march, your socially ostracized and punished march through the valley of the shadow of darkness, then you can be inspiring for people, but it takes time.
It takes time to learn to accept and absorb your social punishments And to return back to those who have harmed you with love in your heart, a song on your lips, and a wide embrace of reason and evidence in your arms.
But it sounds to me if you're just 14 months into it, you may not be at the bottom of the upside-down bell curve of being socially punished for thinking for yourself before you can return from the wilderness Or,
as they say, come back down from the mountain or in Zarathustra, come back from the clouds and return to speak your truth in a way that is – because at least if you're like me, when you first get the truth, you whine.
You complain.
And you're petulant.
And you're like, come on, guys.
Come on.
It's the truth.
Come on.
You don't have a counter-argument.
Come on.
What's the matter with you guys?
Come on, guys.
I could go on, but it sounds like you know what I'm talking about.
A question, I guess I would have this, I want to be honest with all my relationships, but talking to some Christians, they either don't understand or don't want to understand what I'm talking about.
I think there are a lot of I'm more or less atheist or imperious people who don't understand what I'm feeling and then think, oh, here's just some religious guy with his problems.
And even I've been to about three different therapists and it's been really – I've had trouble communicating this.
So – One of them turned out to be a Christian, so after about four or five different times talking to him, I said, I need to move on.
But what would you suggest?
When I'm meeting someone for the first time, or just in striking up a conversation, I want to be honest with where I'm at, but I don't want to be...
I don't want to be too off-putting either because I don't have to be.
I know in real-time relationships, you want to be as honest in the moment as you feel these things.
Do you always want to be super honest with everything going on?
Usually, the first conversation, you don't want to be that overloaded.
Would you agree or what would you suggest for something like that?
Well, if somebody asks for a drink, you don't turn a fire hose on them, right?
Yeah.
I mean, they could try and drink from it, but it's not going to be that comfortable, right?
Yeah.
So if somebody asks you for a drink, you get them a glass of water, right?
You don't get them a glass of...
Urine.
You don't poke him in the eye.
You don't call in an airstrike.
You don't turn on the sprinkler.
You get him a glass of water.
And so when you meet someone, you can be honest.
That doesn't mean you have to staple them to the armchair and go on for two hours about how difficult or how exciting or how challenging your life is since you discovered philosophy.
But you speak the truth and...
You see how they respond.
But speaking the truth and being present to the situation is there being two people in the room, right?
Now, when you're going through something intense, it's hard to focus on other people, right?
Right.
And so, if you're going through something intense and you want to talk with someone else, you know, recognizing and knowing that is important so you can remind yourself to ask more questions of the other person, right?
Right.
If you're interested in In them.
In that person.
It's kind of weird.
Previously, it's like with anything...
Well, my beliefs...
Before, it's like, yeah, when you meet or talk to someone, you know, you always want to just focus on the spiritual and don't judge them based solely upon their actions.
And now it's like, oh, well, that's all you have to judge people on is just that.
So it's kind of weird.
And before, it's like, yeah, don't do that at all.
And now it's like, well, no, that's exactly what you have to do.
Yes, because of course in the realm of truth, there is no soul.
And so as a Christian, everyone you meet has a soul which cannot be destroyed and which cannot be turned solely to evil, right?
Right.
And so when you meet someone as a Christian, you can always try and find God within them.
Or the mutual connection that you both have in God that is inviolate in both of you, right?
Right.
And that is an exceedingly dangerous superstition that has put more Christians in the thrall of evil than I can possibly imagine.
You know, excuse me here for a moment.
Fucking Christians, stop going to war, you assholes.
You unbelievable assholes.
It's right there.
Thou shalt not kill.
Stop putting on a uniform and stop blowing the fucking heads off anyone that the assholes and the chimps in top to point at.
Just stop it.
Stop going to war.
Yeah, yeah, defensive war.
Okay, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Jesus Christ, the mass suicide of the First World War was all committed to By Christians.
Christian leaders.
Christian army.
Christian soldiers.
Christian generals.
All Christians.
All of them.
Second World War.
Same goddamn thing.
Other than Stalin wasn't an atheist among them.
And Stalin was just another kind of...
He had a more secular religion going on.
And it was...
When I first learned about the First World War...
Was when I first really began to say, I'm sorry, what now?
We got all these Christians who say, follow your own conscience.
We have Christians following a prophet who was willing to die rather than bear false witness against his own conscience.
Who was willing to die rather than surrender against To the authorities, whether secular or theological.
A man who told his followers to love their enemies.
And all of these Christians, when told to blow someone to bits 20 miles away by pushing a button on an artillery unit, did so and slept.
The peaceful sleep of the righteous.
That's One of the first times that I, as a little kid, that I really understood that Christianity could in no way, shape or form, stop war.
In fact, there's a dangerous weakness in Christianity in that the secular authorities are perceived to be put there by the deity.
Yeah.
And therefore to obey the secular authorities is to obey God.
You rancid, soul-eating motherfuckers.
Like, could you think of a more dangerous doctrine?
The whole goddamn thing is founded on a defiance of secular and religious authorities.
And then it grows into, obey the king.
Yea, verily, unto death, slaughter, murder, and genocide.
Germany, by far the most religious country in early to mid-20th century Europe.
How successful was that shit at getting them to not slaughter people by the millions?
No.
No.
When I was having a conversation with one of my, I guess, previous Christian friends that I was pretty close to, I was talking to him, well, how do you know if God's in favor of a certain revolution?
And so he said...
It wins.
Yeah, it wins.
So it's like, well, are we winning or are we losing?
If the revolution's winning, then God wants it.
As soon as you lose, you need to switch sides because he doesn't want it.
So you have to go with whoever the winning side is.
Which means God was in favor of communism over the Orthodox Christian Romanov family.
Yeah, okay.
And of course all that does is teach people to be as brutal as humanly possible.
Yeah, yeah.
And of course, that becomes unfalsifiable.
Whoever wins, God's on their side.
It's like, great, so I get to bet on the horse after the race is over.
All right.
Sounds like it sounds legit.
Or don't find yourself fighting on the wrong side.
Just whatever side.
Or switch.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, it is, you know, religion as a whole...
Religion is to man's warrior instinct as the welfare state and fiat currency is to women's hypergamy.
It takes a natural instinct that should be limited by reality and by voluntarism and turns it into a truly sky-eclipsing tumour of excess.
To obey a human being as if that human being were a god turns hierarchy into a vertically integrated slaughterhouse Of near infinite predation.
Right.
And that, of course, is the great danger.
And now, of course, the differentiating between what Christ lived and spoke and what Christians, modern Christians do, well, they're not even remotely the same, I would argue.
But I would say that...
In terms of thinking for yourself and being willing to live the truth and have the truth inform your relationships.
See, nobody cares about the truth if it doesn't inform people's relationships, if it doesn't determine people's relationships.
Believe whatever you want.
Believe whatever you want.
You just pay your tithe.
Basically, that's what it comes down to.
It's when the beliefs interfere with relationships that people really get screwed up about beliefs.
But those are the beliefs that actually change the world.
I mean, Christ was very clear that he was coming to disrupt relationships, to destroy relationships, to set relationships on fire, to separate children from their parents and so on.
Because if I'm an atheist and I still go to church and still sing hymns and still do everything that a Christian does, what the hell does my atheism even mean?
It has to change something.
Yeah.
It's my issue with determinism.
It's like, what the fuck does it change?
I'm a complete determinist.
Well, what does it change?
You still get to debate.
You still get to love.
You still get to hate.
Okay, I'm a determinist too because it doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't change your behavior in any way.
The more a belief changes your behavior, not just your thoughts, but the more a belief changes your behavior.
The more it is both loved and feared in society, particularly if the idea is virtuous, then it is loved by the virtuous and feared and hated by the evil doers.
So if you're willing to have your beliefs actually change your behavior, then you're like the fat guy who's not just thumbing through diet books to look at the pictures, but is going to actually change what he eats.
And so if you're willing to do that, then you are part of a very select few Of deep-hearted heroes who is the only gravity that changes the orbit of the world.
I mean, that's the only thing that matters.
And given that you're a young man, how many people do you want to come to your funeral?
I guess, uh...
Well, I guess as many true, as respectful people as possible who, uh...
Yeah, really.
But even though I think historically, like someone who has been reading about Thomas Paine or someone most of the time...
Oh my god, that's a terrible answer.
Oh my god, that's a terrible answer, Scott.
How many people do you want to come to your funeral?
A lot of people.
How many people do you want to come to your funeral?
How is that a terrible answer?
I told you my answer.
No, you didn't.
You were going off about Thomas Paine and this and that and the other.
I've never said a lot of people, and then you asked me the same question again.
What does a lot mean?
Well, I was pointing out that in the past, very influential people that did the right thing had zero.
A lot of them probably aren't even remembered or known to this day.
How many people do you want to come to your funeral?
5?
50?
500?
5,000?
50,000?
How many people do you want to have come to your funeral?
I don't care if it's zero or I don't care.
Honestly, I don't care if it's zero or I don't care if it's 10 million.
Like, my actions are going to be the same regardless about how many people come or not come to my funeral.
No, but you're reversing the cause and effect there.
How?
Because if you do great good in the world, people will come to your funeral.
Not necessarily.
There's been a lot of people that have done great good in the world where they're vilified for it, right?
Give me an example.
Well, I was giving the example of Thomas Paine primarily, right?
Because he started a revolution, a lot of people read his book, but he had very few people come to his funeral and very lots of people, they're hardly recognized, right?
I'm thinking of Victor Hugo when he had his funeral.
Victor Hugo wrote a lot and Charles Dickens and in some ways I think contributed very positively to the human conversation.
And tens of thousands of people lined the streets for their funerals.
Right.
I remember one of his poems on Thomas Paine's funeral is, Poor Tom Paine, there he lies.
Nobody laughs and nobody cries.
Where he has gone or how he fares, nobody knows and nobody cares.
And this was one of the most influential, you know, people of the day.
Like, it was common sense.
Like, you probably know the history better than I do.
But man, that book was right there, just right out of the Bible.
It was the most widely read thing.
And I just found that amazing, like that someone could, you know, spark, you light that, could light that spark and, you know, you had hardly, hardly anyone recognize them.
Same with, we're talking about, are you, we're talking...
Before about Jesus earlier, like before he died, not many people originally, well, I guess the original funeral, not many people liked him, right?
So if we have him in that aspect as an example.
So as far as how many people come to my funeral, for me, that's not my motivation, even though I understand what you're saying.
Well, I didn't say it was your only motivation.
I didn't mention anything about motivation.
Right.
Now, but let's...
I mean, sorry, and Mike dug this up, but you're completely correct.
Thomas Paine remained in France during the early Napoleonic era, but condemned Napoleon's dictatorship, calling him the completest charlatan that ever existed.
In 1802, at President Jefferson's invitation, he returned to America, where he died on June 8, 1809.
Only six people attended his funeral...
As he had been ostracized due to his criticism and ridicule of Christianity.
So, thank you.
I didn't know that.
Now, if you live a life of inconsequentiality, then very few people relatively will attend your funeral.
I think that's fair to say.
Now, if you live a life of consequentiality, then...
It's more likely that people will care when you're dead.
You're right.
So, I'm not saying live your life in order to get lots of people to come to your funeral.
I mean, you don't want them coming and cheering.
Right.
Well, it depends on the people, I guess, right?
Yeah, I guess so.
I guess so.
But the reason that I ask that question is that if you...
Affect people's lives for the positive, for the better, then they will care when you're dead.
Right.
And particularly if what you say has an effect on their relationships.
I don't really know that Thomas Paine, despite being an amazing pamphleteer and so on and writer, I don't know that he really affected a lot of people's personal relationships and personal happiness.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm just...
Just guessing.
Now, Jesus did, though, right?
Right.
People became born again.
People changed their entire tribes based upon what Jesus said and did.
And the degree to which you can get people to pursue the virtuous and shun evildoers is the degree to which you will give them the potential for the greatest gift Right.
I mean, if you find a cure for cancer, then there's not a lot of companies that make chemotherapy drugs who will come to your funeral and all that, right?
I mean, they probably don't hate you because they might get cancer themselves, but most people will love you, a few people will hate you, right?
Or not hate you, but view you as, you know, I'm glad he did that, but now I've got to find a whole new business, right?
Yeah.
So, the reason that I'm saying all of this is that when I was sick with cancer two years ago, I got huge numbers of messages of people who were very upset that I was sick, yea, verily, possibly unto death itself.
Now, that's not like, well, yay me, that's good.
I mean, it was not anything to do with ego, but what it meant is that I was a source of enlightenment and steadiness and encouragement and clarity in their lives.
Right.
Now, I've barely started as far as this goes.
I mean, this show is, I mean...
Six, seven years old or whatever.
I've barely begun.
I mean, hopefully the resurgence of philosophy that I'm trying to engineer or promote will continue for many, many years after I'm dead.
And I do want a lot of people to come to my funeral.
I mean, I'll be dead.
I'll have no more consciousness of my funeral than I do of the 18th century when I wasn't born.
But I want people to come to my funeral and to be moved because I spoke the truth as best as I could, as powerfully as I could, as courageously as I could, under threat, and it was inspiring.
And that the body is dead, but the inspiration has moved into the hearts of others is the point.
You know, all candles burn down.
The question is, how many other candles do you light while you still own the fire?
Right.
One of...
And I totally see where you're going because if you help a lot of people and you connect to a lot of people, those people are instantly, you know, they're going to care when you're sick and they're going to obviously care when you die.
Yeah, like I'm sorry to interrupt.
Everybody's like, well, socialized medicine and Obamacare and shit.
Bullshit.
I have a healthcare plan called Helping People.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because when I needed money to go and have surgery, people paid.
I have a healthcare plan called Helping People Out.
Generosity.
Kindness.
Not charging for what I do for these conversations.
Not charging for my books.
Not charging for my shows.
Not doing advertising.
I have a healthcare plan, just like I have a welfare state plan and an unemployment insurance plan called Helping People.
Those who truly help others have nothing to fear from the happenstances of life because you have a safety net called mutual obligation.
Right.
The welfare state, the Obamacare and socialized medicine, they're just the demands made by people who aren't doing much to help anyone else.
Right.
So, that's why I was pounding at you.
How many people do you want to come to your funeral?
Well, of course, if you live a virtuous and public life of encouragement and rationality and courage, there's no guarantee that people will come to your funeral.
But so what?
If you don't smoke, there's no guarantee you won't get lung cancer.
I mean, just ask Andy Kaufman, right?
I'm just saying there could be, historically, if someone asks, I think Alexander the Great, if you ask the average person, I'd include myself in this, who was his number two general or right by his side?
Nobody really knows.
It's like, I was someone probably important back then, not really important now.
Name me a congressman from the 18th century or the 19th century.
Name me a congressman from the 19th century and people are like, I don't know, but they were big deals at the time, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Eventually, I don't know from here, maybe...
If humankind is still alive just billions of years from now, your effect, whether people realize it or not, it'd be like, yes, maybe if Stefan Molyneux wasn't here today talking philosophy, It wouldn't be as great as it was in the future.
If we could fast forward to that today, people may not even know Stefan Molyneux, but if you could see the before and after, that's what he did.
For the few people, maybe they're just historical researchers.
I don't know.
Maybe people will know your name.
History, people say, wow, this guy was amazing.
That's kind of how I want my life to be.
I want to live a certain way, even if it's just a couple of people who delve into the history books and say, wow, you know what?
This guy, Scott, he really had a ton of integrity in a time where You know, a lot of people around him didn't seem to have that same integrity.
And that's kind of how I look at it and how I want for my life.
So even if people don't know me millions of years, if there was a way to do that before and after, you know, if Scott was here, kind of like what's that old-fashioned kind of Christmas thing Christmas thing with the angel who comes back.
He tries to kill himself.
I don't know if I'm making sense here.
Is it like an old black and white movie?
It was really popular.
It was about his brother fell through the ice and he tries to kill himself but the angel saves him and he says, this is what would have happened.
I think It's a Wonderful Life.
Is that what it's called?
I haven't seen it in like 30 years.
Oh yeah, I haven't seen it.
There's a whole thing about it comes on every Christmas.
It's the same type of thing.
The guy, he's really depressed because he owes a whole bunch of money.
But pretty much Amy shows him, if you didn't live...
Or if you weren't survived, if you had never been born, this is what reality would have looked like if you weren't here.
And of course, everything's much worse.
And then later, he's not so depressed because he realizes that, you know, all these little actions and things that he's done has really...
It's totally changed the planet.
So that's what I envision, I guess, the ideal for my life.
That's the same thing I want to accomplish.
Good, yeah.
Because, I mean, if you're going to go through this, right?
If you're going to go through this rejection of tribalism for the sake of truth, at least get a giant pot of rainbow gold at the end, right?
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, don't go through this and then...
I say this because I've seen this happen with other people.
They break from the tribe and their big fucking prize is a giant horse feeding bag of bitterness.
Right.
Just cynicism and bitterness.
Yeah.
Just watch the movie Boyhood for a huge documentary example of this.
But yeah, they just...
People keep choosing the thieves over the prophets, and they just get bitter.
The great challenge of rejection is to return with love.
Yeah.
I don't mean like being a stalker.
You love me.
Not to the same people who rejected you, but people reject you harshly in the hopes that you'll turn from the world as a whole, right?
Right.
Which is bigoted, right?
It's like, well, when I was a kid...
Some black kids robbed me.
It's like, oh, well, all blacks must be thieves.
It's like, well, no, that's just a bigoted response to an individual instance, right?
Right.
And I was robbed by far more whiteys than I ever have by anyone else.
It's called inflation.
But that's my thought, is that what makes it worthwhile to go through that rejection and that isolation is Is the positive impact you can have through a renewed commitment to bringing the joy of wisdom rather than the alienation and pain of truth back to the world?
Yeah.
No, it was...
I remember feeling at one point that it's like, man, the only way, given the world, I can live just out of spite.
That was the only way I could live.
I hate this.
I hate...
I think even just having this conversation, I think it's...
I really, really appreciate it, too, because having people that Even yourself, have been through something similar where the average person just looks at you like you're crazy or you don't know what you're talking about.
It really does make a world of difference.
Yeah, the tribe will try and paint you as an outcast, as horrible, as mean, as bad, and whatever, right?
And that's a big warning sign for everyone else not to go your way, and that's how the tribe maintains itself.
And if that's where you end up, you might as well have stayed in the tribe.
Yeah.
Like, that's a bad deal.
That's a bad deal.
Like, I'm now rejected, and I don't even get to the joy of wisdom.
I just got rejected.
Well, philosophy then becomes an act of masochism, right?
Not liberation.
Yeah.
And, you know, going back to the battlefield to pick up the enthusiastic wounded, well, that's the great challenge.
It's not hard to get off the battlefield.
Lots of people do.
They just...
They ghost or they go MGTOW or they just opt out.
It's not that hard to get off the battlefield.
Just stay home in your underpants, eat Cheetos and play video games.
You're off the battlefield.
But...
Going back to dodge the bullets to get the young and the hopeful and those who can not only be saved but can save you in return by...
rewarding your return with enthusiasm.
Well, that...
That is the bigger challenge.
And a lot of people can be driven off the battlefield in bitterness, but very few people can come back and quiet the guns.
And I think that's the goal.
Anyway, listen, man, I've got to move on with the next caller.
No, I totally understand.
Just one quick thing I want to mention is last month I read your book, Revolutions, and I thought it was excellent, by the way.
Oh, thank you.
I just wanted to say I really enjoyed that.
But I'll let you move on.
Well, thanks.
Yeah, not a lot of people know that I got my start in art and fiction, particularly in novel writing.
And so I'm really glad that you read it.
I'm really glad that you enjoyed it.
Gosh, I'm trying to think.
I wrote that 22 years ago.
So yeah, I appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
And feel free to call back in anytime.
All right.
Thanks, Jeff.
All right, Iman.
Alright, up next is Jonas.
Jonas wrote in and said, I got married in June 2013.
My wife and I have been separated since August 2014, and we have agreed on but not yet finalized our divorce.
She wanted to live out a flirt with another man and asked for my permission.
I reacted by throwing her out.
Did I overreact?
Should I take her back?
Okay, so...
If you don't mind, give me some more details, please.
Yes, Mr.
Stefan, I just want to say thanks to being on the show.
Really appreciate that.
Thank you.
We got married after knowing each other for three years.
We got married on her initiative.
And after that, the marriage in June...
I can start even a little bit before.
She was quite young when I met her and she was quite impressed of my living and my reputation of being A little bit up in the status.
I'm an MMA fighter.
I got my own business.
It looks like I'm doing pretty well for myself.
So anyway, we started to date and she's doing quite well for herself as well.
She's very successful in her line of work.
So I impressed her by that.
So she took an initiative to ask me out.
And we dated a couple of months.
And then my mother passed away.
And it took pretty hard on me, so I needed an environment change.
So I joined the overseas forces and was away on a mission for seven, eight months.
Actually, it was actually longer than that.
I was already 11 months.
I was offered also to do some extra time to stay in the service.
But because of my girlfriend, we weren't married at the time, I declined and came back to be with her.
And she knew that I Was offered extension for the service, and she was afraid for me to extend the contract.
So she was very close to me at that time, and I think that's also why she proposed to me not to want to lose me.
So anyway, Of course, I wanted to marry her as well, but it was kind of on her initiative.
But anyway, after we got married, and she...
Just two, three months after, we...
The marriage, she got not a car worker, but in her business, she's a publisher, had a different publish company from a different country.
And they started to do some work together.
And I saw quite early that they were getting very well along.
And that relationship It developed through that time to be what, from my point of view, was not really okay for a married woman.
And I think I reacted in a way that I pushed her away a little bit because I didn't want to get hurt by the situation.
So maybe I pushed her a little bit.
forward to this other man, instead of dealing with a more sensitive matter.
And therefore their relationship probably developed a little bit faster than if I would have been not so, quote, called towards her because of this.
And Eventually it was so blatant that it was just a matter of time for her to actually acknowledge that it was probably just more than a developed friendship and trust.
Do you understand roughly what kind of situation?
I think so.
I got a couple of questions, but first if you can tell me.
Yes.
Did you believe she was having an emotional affair with this man before she ended up having an affair?
She actually never had a physical affair.
Yes, I think my wife is a lot younger than me.
I'm 13.
She's just 23.
I'm actually the youngest guy that Man that she has been involved with.
So she likes really older men and successful men like father issues or father gestals.
And also this man is also very successful in what he do.
He's almost 40.
So I think they developed almost Some kind of trust and almost like the trust that you can get to a therapist almost, I think, she developed to this man.
I can mention that my wife has no father, so that's in her own opinion why she seeks older men to find trust together.
Right, and I guess my other big question is, you said that your mother died.
Yes.
And you joined the army.
Yes.
Help me understand that seems like an odd sort of two things to put together.
Okay.
I did my service, mandatory service, when I was 18.
In the Scandinavian armed forces.
I did fairly well.
I had an idea of going to military high school to become an officer.
But due to lots of fights and violets, I was not inappropriate.
I kept, because I was a good soldier, I kept good grades.
For it, but I got a little remark that made it not really possible.
So I put that ideas on side.
And I started to develop my own company, which I had a carpenting company, and then developed from that into an event industry.
I've done a lot of different stuff entrepreneur-wise.
I have lots of creativity, but as soon as I I feel that nothing is a challenge anymore.
I changed directions.
So it may look like I have lots of resources.
I had really nice cars and stuff like that on the company, but I was never able to stay with the same business idea for such long times to get a really good turnover.
And that was also frustrating for my wife.
But anyway, so when my mother died, me being an MMA fighter as well, I cut some weights before the fights.
And when my mother had a little bit of a growth, she wasn't fat, but she wanted to drop weight.
So I told her what I do before fights just to Get on a couple of kilograms.
Anyway, two, three weeks after that she dies in a heart attack.
And my parents are separated.
So she lived with another man.
So this man blamed the diet, the diet advices that I have given for the reason to the heart attack.
And I felt that I just needed to get away from the family and everything.
So then I joined the foreign army.
Okay, so who was it in your family who thought that you might have killed your mom?
He didn't put it like that, but he's my mother's husband.
And what do you think?
Yeah, I thought that at the time, yeah, could be possible.
That maybe what you put in yourself results in also how your organs react.
Was it a very extreme diet that you suggested?
Some people...
Yeah, it can be.
No, I'm not...
It's mainstream but it's a big change and it's basically a low carb diet where you cut off pretty much all the carb that you have and you get the energy from fat and protein.
I do it for a short period of time, and I feel fine from it, but some studies say that it's not good for the brain activity to cut too much carb, and also to get too much fat can be a problem with the blood flow, for example.
But I'm going to assume that if she's going to adopt some radical new diet, that she would talk to a doctor too, right?
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
She had been on diet for a couple of years, tried different diet training.
But do you believe that your advice contributed to her death?
This is a couple of years ago.
At the time, I felt it could be.
I've spoken a lot of it to friends, especially in the army, because it was so recent to it.
I don't feel that way today.
Yeah, because it struck me that something strange had to be occurring.
For you to say, my mother died and I decided to become a paid killer.
Yeah, luckily I didn't have to put that to the test.
No, I get it.
I get it.
But you wouldn't know that going in.
So if you say, well, I think I might have killed my mom, so I'm going to go become a paid killer.
I mean, that's quite a dense psychological experience, right?
Yeah.
Yes, it is.
But it's also linked to my previous army experience.
I've also been working in private security in Africa before, between my business.
So I have...
I have had a pretty rough past of violence in my history, which I'm not proud of.
Now, hang on.
Where do you think your capacity for violence came from as a child?
I think it's because I always hold my ground.
So when I was in kindergarten, from first years in school, I always hold my ground if I see something being wrong.
I have never bullied anyone, but I have never been bullied either.
But when I've seen things that I believe is wrong, That someone is talking to me in the wrong way, especially when I was younger or doing things.
I hold my ground in a way that maybe lots of other children doesn't hold their ground, which results in fighting.
Well, so you weren't hit at home?
Yeah, yeah, I got spanked a little bit from my mother, yeah.
And what does that mean?
That means that I, as I can recall from my memory, maybe four times spanked.
I remember the last time.
So it's not too frequent.
But anyway, the last time I was too...
I'd grown too old for her to actually lay a hand on me, which resulted that I was able to actually throw her to the ground or actually to the couch.
And that was also the last time that she ever tried to spank me again.
So only four times, and what about your father?
He never spanked me as a child.
I was shit hell afraid.
That time I threw down my mother because she was going to tell my father.
But I was so scared.
But when he came home, he actually just spoke to me.
So that was quite nice.
But I got slapped a little bit when I was 15, 16, 17, after my parents got divorced.
So you were 15 or so when your parents got divorced?
Yes, I think I was 14.
And what was their marriage like before they got divorced?
I'm adopted.
Just for how the family constellation was, they had three children of their own.
Me, I've been with them as long as I can remember from birth, pretty much.
And then I had an older brother who were also in childcare.
And then I have a younger sister that's also in childcare.
So totally, we were six kids.
Sorry, six kids in the family with your...
Father and mother that you've been talking about?
No, I ate with my father and mother.
So I have a sister who is 10 years younger than me.
Now, sorry, when you say sister, just because, do you mean your biological family or your adopted family?
My adopted family.
I have no contact whatsoever with my biological family.
And sorry to interrupt, do you know how old you were when you were adopted?
It was pretty much from birth, so one week, two days, something like that.
And do you know why you were put up for adoption?
Yes, because my biological father died from heart disease and my biological mother wasn't amped to take care of a child.
Okay, okay.
Alright.
Okay, so thank you for that background.
Now, you said that your wife was, I can't remember, how much younger than you?
Seven years younger.
And you were 30, if I remember rightly, if she was 23?
Yeah.
Okay.
And on a scale of 1 to 10, how pretty was she?
I would say eight, but people in general would say ten.
Oh, so you are more critical of your wife's appearance or your ex-wife's appearance than other people are?
I would say so, yes.
Why do you think that is, just out of curiosity?
Because other people have, in general, quite low standard.
Okay.
Alright.
And was it primarily her looks that attracted you to her in the first place?
Or was it her character, her virtues?
I would love to say that it was her character virtue, but being a man, like a beast hunts for For beauty, of course, and her being so popular that she is, she was a very attractive target.
She was like high status, right?
Yeah, in that sense, yes.
So that made it, for me, initially wise, a challenge.
Right, right, right, okay.
And what do you think that she saw in you?
She saw someone who was very, first of all, very good-looking, very successful.
Yeah, you're a good-looking guy, right?
I'm just looking at your avatar.
Okay, yeah, thanks.
Someone who can...
Speak his mind, not afraid of other people's opinion.
Generally, an alpha male.
I had everything.
It looks like I had the resources, but which I don't.
It's something that I have never cared about.
I'd rather live really poor and live my day as I want to live it than put hours into an office that I don't want to do.
So that's a big fault if I want to find a woman.
At least that's how I identify if I'm insecure to get a woman.
That's my backside.
I'm really poor.
Right.
Now, would you say that there was any coincidence between your reduced circumstances and your wife's desire to have an affair?
Sorry, take that question again.
Did she want to have an affair when you were either unavailable because of military service or had less money or less success?
No, no.
She has been very fine with me having no regards regarding money.
She has been fine too.
She has a nice work, so she makes good money, or at least compared to me.
Okay, so when did her interest in the other man start?
Just let me make sure I understand this timeline.
Like two months after our marriage.
Right.
She's being a publisher and we were at the At a seminar, where this foreign person attended as a host speaker.
He doesn't look much to the world.
He looks like an author normally does when they are around 40, a little bit chubby, old clothes.
But in her mind of sets, it's very high status of what he do.
For a living, it's the same kind of work that my wife does, but...
So, in the world that she moves in, this guy's higher status?
Than me?
Yes, yes.
He would be considered to be a rock star for a regular, younger, who have no...
Interest or career in a certain field.
Okay, so I don't know if you've ever heard, I'm going to be annoying and give you some education about women, and this is not all women, blah, blah, blah, the usual caveats, but you know, not all tigers are albino, or not all tigers are non-albino, but majority, right?
So this is something that's called Breffaut's Law.
Breffaut's, B-R-I-F-F-A-U-L-T-S. Breffaut's Law.
And this guy was a novelist and a historian, a social anthropologist, and a surgeon.
And he was sort of working around the turn of the last century.
And you can look him up if you want.
His first name is Robert Breffaut.
So, this is Brieffold's Law, and I think it's relevant to your circumstance.
Are you ready?
Yes.
The female, not the male, determines all of the conditions of the animal family.
The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family.
Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.
Thank you.
So that's sort of the main central thrust of it.
And again, we're not talking philosophy, we're just talking biology, but it's only because we've had biology that we have philosophy, because the brain is a wetware biological organ, right?
Yes.
This is very important for men to understand as a whole.
Again, this is not all women, but this is a common enough pattern that if you don't know it, you don't know women.
Okay, so the female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family.
Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.
Fair enough, right?
There are a few corollaries.
Number one, Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.
So, the fact that you were higher status in the past or provided some benefit in the past is no guarantee for now or for the future.
No.
I guess so.
Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit.
Number three, a promise of future benefit has limited influence on current slash future association, with the influence inversely proportional to the length of time until the benefit will be given, and directly proportionate to the degree to which the female trusts the male.
Okay, so with regards to marriage, I'm not trying to shoehorn your experience into this, so tell me if I'm way off base.
It is the female who determines the conditions of the animal family.
And this is true for most species.
We are a species of mammal.
It's true for most species.
Mating occurs when the woman wants it to occur.
And if the man provides benefits to the woman, then the woman will associate with the man.
But no amount of past benefit...
Guarantees future association.
And if you say, basically, I'll take you out on a date, but I hope we'll have sex, right?
When the woman's been paid for the date, there's no guarantee, right?
And hypergamy, of course, as you know, is the woman's desire to want to marry up.
And again, we can't fault this in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah.
woman's desire to marry up in a lot of people in the manosphere sort of view this is some horrible negative thing it's like well no a woman's desire to marry up to to to go for a higher status male yeah and that's the thing that's froze me off a little bit because I'm following you with these points and I agree in general terms with them But the thing is, she said that she didn't want to leave me.
Sorry, she didn't want to what?
She didn't want to leave me.
She just asked for my permission to be able to spend some time with this guy.
Right.
And do you know what that means?
That if I allow it, that she eventually would leave me.
No.
What it means is she's not sure that she will be able to keep him.
I'm pretty sure that she is the predator.
Oh no, I get that.
I get that.
I get that.
I get that, but...
Let me ask you this.
If you have a job that's good but not great, and you want a great job, and somebody says, well, maybe we might have a spot.
Why don't you come around next week for an interview?
You don't quit your current job, do you?
No, but that's what I mean.
Let me finish.
You wait until you have the new job, a written offer that is secure, before you quit your current job, right?
Yeah.
And so for your wife...
My guess, again, I don't know, it's a guess.
If she was here, we'd ask her.
But my guess would be that she said, well, I'd like to explore spending some time with this guy to find out if he's as high status as I think he is and to find out whether I can trade up.
Yeah, I'm following that.
Because that was my suspicions as well, that if I We're going to allow this and let them meet in a private fashion.
It would either go that way, that either that she feels for him and we meet, or that He starts to feel for her and she doesn't feel for him and it will just be a mess in that direction as well.
Or that they feel for each other and she will leave me.
I didn't see any win solution actually for any part.
Well, the winning solution was to get out.
For me?
Yeah.
In my humble opinion.
Yeah, but still I don't feel like a winner.
Oh, no, no.
I'm not saying you won.
It was a winning solution given the circumstances.
It was the best move you could make.
It doesn't mean that you're happy.
It just means you only lost a toe or a foot rather than a leg and an arm and a toe and a foot, right?
Yeah, that's true.
But after our separation, we didn't speak for a good two months.
And we just recently started to pick up a conversation again.
Alright, and why is that happening?
I think it's...
Maybe I'm taking marriage seriously.
No, no, no.
I don't mean for you.
I mean for her.
I think she feels some kind of sick even though I'm not providing for her and stuff like that.
I think she still feels...
A security-ness.
It's not an English word, I guess, but a safety-ness.
A comfort-ness with me.
What did she, sorry, did she pursue this other guy?
No, I know for a fact that they haven't been in contact after our separation.
And did you know, that wasn't my question.
My question was, did she pursue him, not did it work out?
No, no, she didn't pursue him.
How do you know?
Because...
She's a very honest woman.
She hasn't...
Even when they started...
Wait, wait, wait.
Hang on, hang on.
When you got married...
Yes.
...to her, did she make a vow?
Yeah.
To remain faithful to you?
Yeah, I think so.
I hope so.
You think so?
What do you mean?
I need to check the recording.
No, but was that the general understanding?
Like, did you say, you know, if you're interested in someone else, go for it, right?
Yes, of course it wasn't like that, yeah.
Okay, so she made a vow to be true to you, to be faithful to you, to be monogamous with you, right?
Yes.
And then she wanted to go and explore having an affair, right?
Yeah, something like that.
The fuck do you mean by honest, then?
Are you and I using the word in a different way?
No, but maybe...
She didn't even last two months, for Christ's sakes!
Yeah.
I mean, what the fuck is honesty to you?
I'm sorry.
I know you've been in the army, so I'm sure swearing doesn't matter to you.
But I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?
She's a very honest woman.
She promised to be faithful to you.
She couldn't even make it for the rest of your life.
She couldn't even make it two months?
Yeah.
Before breaking the most important vow she ever made in her whole goddamn life and you're trying to sell honesty to me?
Are you kidding me?
How pretty is this woman that you're trying to bullshit me?
It wasn't that.
She's not an age, man.
I'm telling you.
If you're going to try and bullshit me on this with honesty, come on.
The part I totally agree with you.
Good.
So stop bullshitting me.
Okay.
She's not an honest woman.
Okay.
Wrong world.
She was very open with her behavior from the very beginning.
She has never tried to...
No, stop it, man.
For God's sake, stop it.
No, open is saying, well, I'll get married to you, but, you know, I'm still keeping my eyes peeled.
I'm not going to be monogamous if something better comes along.
Okay.
I will try to formulate this to a sentence so you understand what I actually want to say.
No, no, no.
Listen, listen.
I'm not going to participate in this where your dick wants to paint her virtuous to me.
Okay.
No, seriously.
I get that your dick wants to paint her, but it's not virtue that's the money shot here, right?
You know, egg, right?
So I'm not going to participate in this thing where you try and sell this woman to me as a virtuous woman or an honest woman or an open woman or a frank woman or I don't give a shit, right?
No.
She made a vow to you.
She didn't even last two months.
Yeah.
So you want to sell her as virtuous to me so that you can go and have sex with her.
Eventually.
Come on, man.
It's guy to guy here, right?
Yeah.
No, no, no.
You're not sitting on Oprah's couch, okay?
You don't have to put makeup on your dick hunger.
I got it.
I got it.
Okay.
No, no, of course.
No, no.
It was...
What I mean is that...
She broke your heart.
Yeah.
She broke your heart in the most brutal way imaginable.
Yes.
In that you were married for two months and she was already wanting to go and maybe fuck another guy.
Yeah.
Who was highest status in her world, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Isn't this just an unbelievable bitch?
Yes.
But what I wanted to try to say is that she didn't try to hide it at all.
Well, is that your standard of virtue?
No.
She stabbed me?
At least she didn't fucking poison me with something I couldn't taste?
Is that your standard of, oh, she's great, because she shot me openly.
She didn't use a silencer and then say it was someone else.
Come on, man.
You've got to raise your standards a little bit here.
The fact that she honestly shredded my heart in two?
Come on.
If you look at the women's gender in life, Very few women that actually shoot you in the head in front of you.
The most would poison you.
Well then, you've got to start hanging out with better women, man.
Because look, I'm telling you, if this is your standard, that yes, I married her, she promised to stay monogamous forever, she lasted two months, at some point during those two months she wanted to fuck someone else, but she's the best woman around that I can possibly find?
Come on.
Do you believe in change?
Do I believe in change?
Yes.
No, don't get sophist on me.
First of all, I wouldn't be doing this show if I didn't believe in change, so come on.
It's like going to a nutritionist and say, do you believe in dieting?
Well, of course, it's the whole gig.
That's the whole gig.
What evidence do you have that she has worked really, really, really hard for years to change?
None.
She gone to therapy?
Whatsoever.
Has she fallen on her knees sobbing and wailing her heart out for how much she hurt you?
That she actually haven't done yet, no.
Did she drag you into a marriage and then put your heart in a fucking blender and hit frappe?
Yeah.
So, look, yeah, I believe in change.
Absolutely, I believe in change.
And because I have gone through change, I know that it doesn't just happen because your dick gets hard.
Yeah.
Oh, look, she's changed.
I have an erection.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, change is...
I mean, jeez, I worked on self-knowledge for years and years and years...
I went to therapy for years and years and years, three hours a week.
I wrote books.
I kept a journal.
I mean, talked about stuff, everything with my friends.
I mean, that's change, right?
That's change.
And you never have to ask if someone has changed if they've really changed.
It's sort of like if someone was 100 pounds overweight, you don't see them for six months, they come back and they're 100 pounds lighter.
Do you ask if they've changed?
No, of course not.
Of course not.
Because it's completely evident.
It's like someone gets a tattoo on their face and you say, gee, I wonder if something's different.
Change is so evident that when it's there, it is undoubtable.
And it shows up in so many different areas of life that – and the methodology of change is not exactly some ancient Aztec untranslatable mystery.
You work really hard.
You confront your own demons.
You go to therapy.
You keep a journal.
You apologize to the people you've wronged.
You deal with...
And your whole relationships go into the shitter.
I mean, just look at your first...
Call her tonight.
Yeah.
You know that someone's changed when everyone around them hates them now.
Right?
Hatred is the payment for change made by the stagnant.
It's the coin they use.
So, I mean, I can't participate in I want to fuck her so I'm going to portray her as a good girl.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know I will say this talk against myself now with this statement, but just a general feeling, it feels like a safe card to take her back and not try to find someone...
A safe?
A safe card?
Yeah.
That's the contradiction.
Lorena Bobbitt not available for dating?
What does that mean, a safe card?
This woman got married to you, and within two months she wanted to fuck other guys?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the contradiction.
It's not very safe, no.
Man, I'm telling you, if she's the safest woman around, you gotta move your Yeah, holy shit.
Holy shit.
I mean, I've had some inconstant women in my life in my day.
Yeah.
But nothing quite that bad.
Oh, she's a fucking devil.
Do you know why I think she actually starts to find interest to me again?
Because...
I just got accepted to one of the elite universities in my country.
And that was like a small life changing for me because I never knew what I wanted to do with my business.
I still have it, but I don't really want to work with it anymore.
So I study now political science.
So your status is going up?
Yes.
You wouldn't believe this in Scandinavia, political science being, especially in this school, with the status of the school, it will be a lot of my fellow students that will come out and have a lot of influence in the In the community after the exam.
And it's so many young girls and women who are...
You know the Soviet Union, how the political party of the communists maintained the rule of the party with the political commissars?
I see these young girls being the future of those, but in gender, in so-called equality.
It's really scary.
Right.
Yeah, so her capacity...
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that can happen, of course, is a woman can say, oh, I'm going to go for a high-status guy, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to catch him.
I'm not sure I'm going to either get him or keep him, right?
I mean, it's easy to fuck an alpha, it's hard to keep an alpha, right?
And so she may have said, well, you know, I can trade up to higher status sperm, which is why we're not in the caves and why we're not swimming with the other amoeba, right?
Yeah.
And so she went out and gave that a shot.
And how long has it been since she divorced or since you separated?
Six months.
Six months, okay.
So she's had six months out there trying to figure out what her eggs are worth, right?
Yeah.
She's put them on the egg bay of generalized male horniness, right?
So she's gone out there and she's dangled her eggs and saying, hey, how much are these worth?
Right?
I mean, I was married to this guy.
He's married to Jonas.
And I'm just wondering, can I get any more than what Jonas had for these eggs?
And she's out there and...
You know, her value, I mean, not in six months that much, but her value in general will decline.
How old is she now?
23 turning 24.
Okay, so she's 23 turning 24, like right now, right?
Yeah, in a couple of months, yeah.
Okay, okay.
So she's out there and she's saying, well, what can I get?
And she's finding that she may be able to have sex with the guys, but she can't get them to commit.
And your status is going up.
And she's like, oh, shit, right?
Maybe Jonas was the best I could get.
Yeah.
But the thing is, isn't all women like that?
No.
No.
But even the women who is not like that, haven't they been like that before they stopped being like that?
Well, I don't know.
Now you're asking for some sort of psychic all-time, all-women knowledge.
Yeah.
No, it's like, look, I mean, men think about sex with a lot of different women, and women think about sex with high-status men.
Right?
So saying that women are into high status is like saying men like young, fertile women to have sex with.
Well, of course.
Of course they do.
I'm sure that women do too, right?
I mean, who wants to have sex with Jack Nicholson, who looks like Mr.
Magoo, wax figure left out in the sun too long?
And who wants to have sex with, I don't know, Chris Pine, right?
For a woman, right?
Or a guy from the internet.
So, yeah, of course, women want high-status men and men want young, fertile women.
Yeah, I mean, but that doesn't mean – and will men always want young, fertile women?
Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean that a married man is going to go have sex with young, fertile women.
I mean, we all like chocolate usually more than kale.
But that doesn't mean you just eat chocolate and have your teeth rot out, right?
You can make sensible decisions knowing your nature.
But if you deny your nature, you're doomed.
Now, your nature is to go crawling back on your penis to get access to these eggs, and you'll invent any amount of bullshit.
And I know.
I've been there, too.
Look, I mean, I'm not preaching from some high amount of immunity.
You make up some shit.
Well, I'm sure she's sorry.
I'm sure she's learned.
I'm sure she's grown.
Egg!
Right?
And you want to get your rocks off.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, it's going to come at the expense of your honesty with yourself.
See, women have pounded into men, you know, like young tits and ass, you're so shallow, blah-de-blah-de-blah, right?
I think that's actually been kind of helpful in some ways, right?
Yeah, there's some truth in that.
We remain fertile, although sperm quality declines, we remain fertile.
A lot longer than women do, and the more resources we get, the younger women we can, at least in the past, right?
Now women have become almost as shallow as men, as far as this goes.
It's not shallow.
It's deeply biological.
It's just philosophically somewhat shallow.
But women haven't admitted to hypergamy and Brouffall's law.
Women still have to cloak their sexuality in, I just want it to be close.
You know, he's just a deeply spiritual guy.
You know, I mean, you were just emotionally unavailable.
I just, I didn't feel close to you.
And I guess, I guess, because I didn't feel close to you, I got drawn into the orbit of someone else, you know.
I'm sorry, but...
You actually felt exactly like her.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, and of course, if...
You know, guys are like, well, you know, I had sex with the Dallas Cowboy cheerleader because I guess you were just a little bit emotionally unavailable to me.
Yeah, right.
And I guess she was just in my orbit, and she was a sympathetic ear to listen to my problems.
You were always too busy, always seemed too busy to listen to my problems, so I guess I just ended up fucking the cheerleader.
Like, nobody would believe that from a man, right?
No.
Right, you say cheerleader, and it's like we already know, alpha female, as far as youth and fertility and looks go, right?
So women just aren't acknowledging in general, well, I thought I could get a better price for my ex, so I wanted to fuck this guy because it looked like he'd have more resources.
I mean, I know I said I was married to you, but, you know, it didn't turn out that...
I mean, I remember a friend of mine His wife was telling me once, oh yeah, when I met this guy, he was doing this, he was doing that, he was going to be a professional, he was working in media, and none of it really panned out.
None of it really panned out.
And she was bitter.
In other words, she played the egg lottery, or I guess she played the penis lottery, and came up kind of snake eyes.
And the guy wasn't making much money, and he was a very talented guy.
Very talented guy.
I mean, didn't have the emotional maturity to harness it, but...
But women, you know, men have sort of been pounded into being honest, and yeah, we admit.
Young TNA is what gets our sperm flowing, for sure.
And we accept that, we know it, and we work within the limitations of those desires.
But literally, women talking about their own sexuality...
It's like a young kid promising you that he likes or she likes broccoli more than chocolate.
I mean, it's absurd.
Yeah, we get it.
Your eggs want the highest status, most resourced man you can get.
And this used to be well known in society and the welfare state came along and screwed all that up, right?
Now, the woman can use the man to get resources from the taxpayer.
So it's not even like a high-status man can be a man with medium resources and dick-drunk eyeballs so that she can then marry him, divorce him, and get, especially if she's got a kid, get stuff from the state.
Or the man with resources can be Barack Obama.
Married women vote Republican.
Single women vote Democrat.
Why?
Because married women already have a husband.
They don't need the state.
And so, you know, and I'll keep pounding this and other people, of course, will keep pounding this until women just fess up and say, yeah, we're as shallow as men.
Right?
They go for young eggs and we go for old money.
Yeah.
And because until they do admit that, at least as a tendency, nothing's going to change and men are going to have to listen to this absurd nonsense.
Well, I just found the highest status male.
I guess you were just emotionally unavailable.
So I just...
You know, I mean, the heart wants what the heart wants.
And basically, you get blamed for your wife's hypergamy.
No, no, no, no.
Blame biology, maybe.
Don't blame the man.
No.
And the fact that your mom didn't tell you any of this, and the fact that your father didn't tell you any of this, I mean, what did your...
Are you still in contact with your dad at all?
Yes, yes, we have a good contact.
What did he think of your marriage?
I shouldn't have said good contact, should I? I've never really spoken to people in my life.
I've always been holding things for myself.
So like when my marriage My parents divorced.
I never spoke to anyone about it.
So we went to a family counselor therapist to speak, but I walked out.
And in one way that has lived on in the relations with my family.
I have a really good Relation with two of my brothers.
Now, when I turned 24, 25, after I've been in Africa, then I actually started to talk to people quite a lot, but I haven't really taken so deep conversation with people around me, me, except my brothers and friends, but not my father.
But we have a good relation in that sense that we meet and speak.
I don't know what the comparison would be.
Co-workers, maybe.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, so, I mean, I'm trying to do what other people's parents should have done, which is to talk about the frank nature of Incompatible or not hugely compatible gender preferences.
Yeah.
Yeah, that would have been appreciated 20 years ago.
Yeah, I mean, we have to see women for what women are in general, not for what we want them to be or how they portray themselves to be.
Or whatever propaganda is served up.
And to understand that biological drives are biological drives.
It doesn't mean that all women are slaves to them any more than all men are slaves to biological drives.
But I mean the first thing to solving any problem is to admit that you have one and their hypergamy has become a big, huge problem.
It's always been a challenge but it's also been a huge benefit to the species.
The fact that women go for alpha males is why men want to get bigger and stronger and faster and richer.
It drives male ambition to a significant degree.
There's no value judgment about any of this stuff.
No, it's very true.
I actually just feel it from this time in separation that I have actually...
Peaked in my training and in my performer, just in social life.
Yeah, so I mean, I don't view this all as negative, the fact that men want to impress women and men want to get resources to get the most attractive woman.
It's nothing wrong with it.
It's completely fine.
Saying that there's anything wrong with it is like saying that there's something...
Immoral about testicles being outside of the body.
Yeah.
It's just the way that it works, the way it's evolved.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's just value neutral.
And there's been great benefits, but there are also great costs.
The great benefits are it drives male ambition.
And male ambition is the foundation of most of what we call civilization and society and so on.
I mean, we're talking...
Over TCPIP, which was, I'm sure, developed by guys who wanted to make money and get laid.
So, no problem with that.
What bothers me is that we're just not honest about it.
See, we can be honest about the drivers of male sexuality.
We cannot be honest about the drivers of female sexuality.
And...
Female sexuality has to be all kind of Vaseline lensed and Hallmark cards and just, I just want to be close to you.
It's like, no, she just wants to be close to your resources.
And your vagina is, you know, a giant vacuum that sucks up resources and spits out children.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's just the way it is.
And children, you know, we are a species that requires the most investment of just about any species in our children.
So naturally, you need a lot of resources to invest in your kids.
Again, it's no problem, but we just can't be honest about it.
And because we can't be honest about it, a lot of guys are really getting taken to the cleaners.
And where we're blind to the nature of female sexuality in its rawest form throughout the animal kingdom, where we're blind to it, it is a great danger.
All things of great power that we are blind to.
Go from neutral to dangerous, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally see it, and I agree with you.
I just wonder how to deal with it.
Well, I mean, I think just to be honest with yourself, and I mean, there are some obvious signs that To be aware of.
I mean, a woman who overtly puts sexuality forward as a central part of her presentation is a big problem.
Yeah.
Need a woman that tried to sell her mind instead of her body.
Is that kind of what you mean?
Yeah.
And I mean, this doesn't mean, you know, all women who are 300 pounds are virtuous or anything like that.
But, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, let me give you an example.
This is from Psychology Today.
From 1973 to 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published.
They show that about four in ten women admit having them, 31 to 57 percent, with a median frequency of about once a month.
Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them.
Psychologists at North Texas University asked 355 college women, how often have you fantasized being overpowered, forced, raped by a man-woman to have oral, vaginal, anal sex against your will?
62% said they'd had at least one such fantasy.
But responses vary depending on the terminology used.
Overpowered by a man, 52% said they'd had that fantasy.
And this is, of course, women's romance fiction.
Believe it or not, I've actually read a couple of these Harlequins.
Yeah, it's big money in those, I heard.
Big money.
Big, big money.
Now, this doesn't mean that anyone who fantasizes about rape would actually want to be raped, and this doesn't mean that rape is, of course, blah, blah, blah.
You know all the caveats, right?
Yes, yes.
And, yeah, I mean, what is the, you know, this handsome character Alpha is so overwhelmed by the sexual attractiveness of the heroine that he loses all control and he just has to have her!
Right?
And she says no, but then eventually she submits and blah-de-blah-de-blah, right?
And this is female porn.
In other words, my sexual power is so great that an alpha will lose control and rape me.
Oh, yeah.
That's actually quite...
Well put in words.
Now, I mean, is this something that we're honest about as a society?
And again, this doesn't have anything to do with condoning rape, which is an immensely evil thing, right?
But let me put it to you this way.
When a man fantasize, when males fantasize about a menage a trois, like one man, two women, what do people think?
Oh, that's gross.
I mean, not man, obviously, right?
Yeah.
Not man.
But a man who fantasizes about sex with multiple women, well, I think a lot of, you know, that's not generally put forward as, well, that's the cool erotic, right?
No.
Because women are like, what, I'm not enough for you.
Now, of course, a man fantasizes about sex with more than one woman because that's what sperm are designed to do.
Sperm can very easily impregnate two women even in the same sexual encounter.
Start in one, finish in another, right?
Yeah.
And so it's perfectly natural now.
A woman being overpowered by a man also has some biological origins because in a situation where Aggression wins, in other words, in a primitive society where it's not trade but win-lose, war, and so on.
Then for a woman to be overpowered by a man is a signal that her eggs are going to receive the most aggressive genes and thus her offspring are going to have the greatest chance of survival and blah-de-blah-de-blah, right?
Now, the fact that men are sort of shamed for having menage a trois fantasies, even though Obviously, a menage a trois, we would assume, is completely voluntary because it's not about bondage or submission.
But the fact is that most men don't know that half or more of women regularly fantasize about being raped.
And that there's a whole genre of fiction catering to rape fantasies of women.
I mean, it's not even Fifty Shades of Grey.
That's just the latest manifestation in an immense series, including The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.
But I don't know.
Have you ever fantasized about being raped?
No.
Of course not.
Because you're a guy.
Yeah.
I seriously didn't know that.
Of course you didn't.
Of course you didn't.
Because we can't be honest about these things.
And this is just the women who are willing to admit that they fantasized about being raped.
It's probably higher.
Yeah.
I think you're going to get some fan mails on these statements.
Well, look, again, I mean, these are just the facts.
Yeah.
But male sex, you see, I mean, men fantasize about things that are legal and not violent, right?
What you always hear about, oh, you know, pornography is so violent, but they're not talking about fucking harlequin romances, right?
Women's pornography is far more violent than most male pornography, right?
Because it's about forced sex, a lot of it.
But no, women have got to be these Victorian flowers who, you know, lie back and think of England while a man violates them for the cause of breeding.
Or it's got to be all about emotional intimacy and closeness.
It's like, good lord!
I mean, there's a reason Fabio doesn't look like Woody Allen.
Not that it seems like Woody Allen is into adults, but...
Stuff in the romance novels, does Fabio have to get yes every step of the way?
Yes, can I touch your hair?
It will be regulated by law.
Right.
Right.
Look, I mean, as far as that which normalizes rape, women's romance novels are rape culture.
And again, this is not a judgment in any way, shape, or form.
These are just the facts.
And the fact that...
So women...
You have never fantasized about being raped.
But more than half of women are willing to admit on a regular basis they fantasize about being raped.
And what that means is that they masturbate to fantasies of being raped.
Men and women are quite different.
Very different in many ways.
Look...
An older woman with lots of money probably doesn't do much for you sexually, right?
No.
Right.
But listen, I've known some writers.
Not a lot of writers have bodies that can compete with an MMA fighter.
Am I right?
Yeah, you probably are.
Yeah.
But your wife wanted to have an affair with some Flabby-ass writer in his 40s, right?
Yeah.
Because he's high status.
You see, men and women are very different.
And there's a huge amount of propaganda designed to cover up the covetous nature of female sexuality.
The ambitious, grasping, cold, acquisitive, sociopathic element of female sexuality.
And look, This is not sexist.
There's a sociopathic element to male sexuality, too.
And by that, I mean Kim Kardashian appears to be a pretty horrible human being.
Right?
But the penis responds to the curves, which means she's not being seen as a human being.
She's being seen as a sex object, which is using someone as an object to satisfy your own desires, which seems to me kind of sociopathic.
And again, this is not a judgment.
Male sexuality has sociopathic elements, which is why it responds to bad women with nice bodies more than good women with bad bodies.
And again, it's no judgment, it's just the way it is.
And women's sexuality has a sociopathic element to it as well, which is what Bruffaut's law is talking about.
It's about can you provide the woman advantage?
If you can, you will have an association.
And past provision of advantage doesn't matter.
It still doesn't guarantee your future association at all.
The woman can do better?
In general, she will.
Trade up.
And these are just things that you need to learn about because you and me have received an extraordinary amount of propaganda about female sexuality over the years, right?
And almost all of it is a complete and total lie.
And it comes back to the fact that we are simply unable to view women as equal to men.
Most men with women are like liberals with blacks.
They're just completely unable to see them as equals.
And Everything that could be said about male sexuality can equally be said about female sexuality.
Some of male sexuality is sociopathic.
Some of female sexuality is sociopathic.
Male pornography or pornography that males respond to can be degrading.
Pornography that females respond to seems kind of more degrading in that it involves rape a lot of times.
Like, I don't know a lot of men who...
I've never known anyone who is sexually excited by the idea of rape, but apparently there's a lot of women around that way inclined.
But you don't hear that, right?
Because it's all about how porn is bad because men like it.
Well, of course, most women dislike porn because it's a competition, right?
Nothing to do with anything ethical, otherwise they'd be...
I mean, how many feminists...
Have you ever heard chastising women for their rape fantasies?
I've never heard of it at all, so no.
No, no, it's just white males, right?
Yeah.
White males, particularly frat boys, because frats are where white males get together to talk about issues, and you can't have white males getting together to talk about issues, otherwise they might have some strength.
So anyway, listen, I hope that helps.
I mean, I just wanted to give you some hard-won wisdom.
No, no.
It's well appreciated.
It's all come down to the hard truth.
And I think it's just you basically know this stuff like in your bone.
It's just to to actually deal with it.
Yes.
And knowing this makes it feels initially like despair.
Yeah.
But it's not.
It's not.
Listen, I mean, if there's only one berry in 20 that you can safely eat, you sure as shit want to be able to know which one that is, right?
Yeah.
Otherwise, you're going to spend your whole life throwing up.
So I say, you know, well, you know, majority berries you can't really eat.
And you're like, oh my god, that means I'm going to starve to death.
It's like, nope!
That's not what I'm saying!
What I'm saying is, stop throwing up and eat the good food.
Stop subsidizing immorality with your money, with your time, with your attention, with your consciousness, and with your dick.
Yeah.
It's that as well.
It's all that time that you have invested in a person for something that you wanted to lead to something, say, a family, children.
It's four or five years of my life, and now I'm 30.
Am I going to invest the same amount in the next woman?
Then I will maybe have children, if I'm lucky, to meet her during the next year, or maybe I need a little bit more time to recover from my marriage.
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely take that.
I would definitely take that, and I'm going to, because my voice is still a bit rough from a fairly lengthy call, so I'll end after this, but I'll give you just a couple of hints.
I mean, look, I went out with a lot of women and found some good ways to find a good woman.
So I will give you some hints.
Of course, you can listen to – let me just ask you one other question.
Sorry, Jonas.
Your wife or ex-wife or whatever the hell she is now, how was her relationship with her dad?
He wasn't allowed to see her.
She's not really sure herself what happened.
What do you mean he wasn't allowed to see her?
Like legally?
Yeah, it was something with...
Yeah, so she has some really – according to herself, that's why she really has some serious father's issues and seeks the approval of older men, more in that fashion than others.
Yeah, that may be a very charitable way of putting it.
Yeah, okay.
But, no, what that means, in general, if the woman has a shitty relationship with her dad, it means that she will never take responsibility for her own actions, most likely.
And do you know why that is?
No.
Because if she has a shitty relationship with her dad, then her mom chose a bad man to have children with.
Yeah.
Now, Is the mom going to be more likely to say in that situation, I am so sorry.
I really screwed up.
I chose a guy for all the wrong reasons and you have suffered as a result of that.
I'm incredibly sorry.
I'm going to go to therapy so I can figure out how to get better people into your life.
My child, you now have to grow up without your biological father because I made ridiculously bad mistakes and ignored all the warning signs.
For a bad father.
Yeah.
Likely?
No, the information I have about her family, it's pretty spot on.
Right.
No, that's not what's going to happen.
What's going to happen is that the mother is going to say, well, I had no way of knowing.
I am not responsible.
That man is just a bad guy.
I am not responsible for choosing him as the father of my children.
There was no way for me to know.
And listen, I mean, I don't know if it's out where you are.
Watch the movie Boyhood.
I hate to give this guy money because he's an eerily horrifying propagandist.
But in the movie Boyhood, I think this woman gets – yeah, she's married three times.
And – sorry, spoiler.
There's no plot.
So there's – yeah, so there's – she's married three times and each time – Well, twice we see her meeting guys and they're both incredibly wonderful and charming, great guys.
It's only after she marries them that they turn into monsters, right?
And that's the bullshit that you hear.
So the mother will take no responsibility for choosing an asshole to be the father of her children.
And so because the mother abandons all her responsibilities and all of her choices in the world...
Her daughter is going to grow up.
That's the price you pay for abandoning responsibility.
For pretending you didn't choose what you chose and you're not responsible for what you chose.
Then the daughter grows up blaming men and exonerating women.
In other words, women can do no wrong and all the fault of society lies with the man.
All the fault of the marriage lies with the man.
And this is just such a common trope these days.
Because women are making so many unbelievably bad choices these days, supported by the state.
Everyone gets mad at the bankers for making bad choices.
And I do too.
But let's also get angry at the women for making bad choices.
Half of women in certain places in America are born, half of kids are born outside of wedlock.
Half of American children will go through a fatherless home at some point in their childhood.
These are catastrophically bad choices.
And so, look at the woman's relationship with her own father.
It's going to be really hard, if not downright impossible, without massive amounts of therapy, it's going to be really hard for a woman to love you more than she loves her own father.
Do you understand what a deep statement that is?
Yeah.
So when you think of your ex and her father If you'd have known ahead of time that it is virtually impossible for a woman to love you more than she loves her own father, what would that have done to your decision-making?
Yeah, I would probably try to read more into her.
Okay, no, listen, listen.
No, the phrase that you need to get Is run screaming, cupping your balls.
Yeah.
Listen, her father is not allowed to see her, for God's sakes.
Yeah.
So if, listen, you've got to get this, because that was not even remotely strong enough response.
A woman cannot love you more than she loves her own father.
Yeah, look, I love my wife more than I love my mother, but that's years of therapy and stuff, right?
But in general, like in the absence of intervention, which is, I mean, how many people go to therapy for a long period of time and really work on themselves?
One in a hundred?
So it's true.
It's universal enough that it's a great rule of thumb, which we're happy to be disproved about.
A woman cannot love you more than she loves her own father.
So you ask a woman, what's your dad like?
How's your relationship with your dad?
Yeah.
You know, I don't really see much of him.
I don't really have anything to do with him.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Well, that's going to be you.
Okay, yeah.
You're auditioning for Dad Mark II. Would you say that it's true the other way around as well?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
If I was talking to a woman, I'd say, yeah, ask about the guy's relationship with his mom.
Yeah.
And again, absent significant amounts of intervention, it's the same shit, different pile.
But then I guess me and my wife are pretty much in the same situation.
Of course you are.
Of course you are.
And the reason that I want to say this too is that if this was better known, parents would have to act better.
Because if good men shunned the children of Abusive parents would have to improve in order to get their children back on the marriage market.
Or at least the kids would have to go through therapy.
This is just another way of me promoting therapy.
So that's number one.
Number two is you can say to a woman, what great things do you think men bring to the world?
Yeah.
And if there's a pause longer than two or three seconds, run screaming, cupping your balls.
Yeah, I think these days you would only do running.
Well, no, but good.
Because if only one out of 20 berries doesn't make you throw up and shit diarrhea out of your eyeballs, then you better figure out which one is that 5%, right?
Yeah, that's true.
Yes, run screaming.
That way you're not going to sit there and say, well...
If it's five more women I spend five more years with to find out they don't work, I'm going to be 55.
Right?
Yeah.
So, you ask a woman, what are the great things that men bring to the world?
And if she's like, uh, patriarchy?
Ah!
Cup balls and run.
Yeah.
I mean, you can Google this yourself.
Stuff invented by men.
Or, if you want to have it only slightly shorter list, stuff invented by white men.
And if the woman's on the birth control pill and doesn't know that the birth control pill was invented by a white man...
Anyway.
So if a woman doesn't have any clue what great stuff men have brought to the world, it means that she's just being completely propagandized...
By all the feminist, leftist, communist bullshit designed to make men fearful to women, make women afraid of and skeptical and hostile towards men.
Because if women are hostile and skeptical and scared of men, then they'll vote for bigger government.
I mean, it's a very simple thing.
You make women hostile to men, you get a bigger government.
Because women are still going to need stuff, they need more healthcare, and they're going to need Resources for their kids.
So if you make women scared of and hostile towards men, you get totalitarianism.
It's a beautiful swell to government power.
I discussed that with a feminist classmate.
I tried to point out the irony of how feminists try to escape from the patriarchy.
In the liberal feminists once in a while when they wanted to be allowed to vote and now running forwards to what they once were fighting against.
Yeah.
My husband's being mean.
I'm going to call the cops to protect me from the patriarchy.
Yeah.
What now?
What do you think the cops are?
Oh, my God.
Anyway.
Yeah, I mean, it's too ridiculous for words, right?
So, yeah.
What's your relationship with your dad like?
Yeah.
What benefits have men brought to the world?
And what benefits do men bring to marriage?
I mean, listen, people say to me, what benefits do women bring to marriage?
I go on all day.
I could go on all day.
But if you say to a woman, what benefits do men bring to marriage?
Again, if there's a pause of more than three seconds, duck and roll.
Right?
Shield the nets.
Elbows out.
Knees bent.
Run.
What does she think of divorce?
Well, you know, if you're unsatisfied, you know, if you've tried to work at it for a while, but it's just not working out, I think it's fine.
Run!
Because what she's then thinking is she's only thinking of her own needs, not the needs of the children.
Children hate divorce.
Let me tell you that.
Children hate divorce.
It's horrible.
Well, you know.
It's horrible.
The only thing that it can be is a relief from two idiots screaming and beating at each other.
So that would be, what do you think of divorce?
The other thing, too, is say to moms, say to us women, what do you think of single moms?
They're heroes!
Single moms are heroes because it takes two to tango and I guess that guy just ran away.
So those women are heroic for raising those children alone with so little help.
Run!
Because she's not assigning female responsibility.
Why did you have children with a guy you couldn't keep or who didn't want to stay?
What is the matter of Listen, ladies, let me tell you something.
For approximately four billion years, nature has been developing instincts to ensure that your offspring flourish.
Women have as great a capacity to find a reliable man as a man does to find a sexy woman.
Right?
You ever looked at a woman who's really hot and say, I don't really know.
Of course not.
If she's hot, you know it.
In fact, you know it even before you look sometimes.
It's why you look.
Out of the corner of my eye, I see a fertile shape.
Off go the eyes to see.
So men are incredibly good and men are constantly scanning the environment for fertile eggs.
Can't stop it.
You know, it's basically...
Your eyeballs are the periscopes of your balls.
A periscope scan for eggs.
Okay, we can relax.
Can't find us.
Just what happens?
Because nature has, for approximately four billion years, tweaked us to find fertile eggs.
And, in the same way that we can determine young, fertile women in the vicinity, women Know exactly what a stable and reliable man looks like because nature has tuned their instincts for approximately 4 billion years of evolution to find out the stable from the unstable, the reliable from the unreliable.
Because our offspring require such an insane amount of resources or insane number of resources, women who couldn't figure out who was stable and who wasn't, Didn't survive.
Women are incredibly preternaturally – a woman's instincts – the only goddamn instinct a woman has is stable or not stable provider.
Guy who will stay or guy who won't.
Just like a man's basic instinct is fertile or not.
And absent the state, the likelihood of a woman saying to a guy who's obviously unstable, let's have children – It's about the same likelihood as of a man proposing to an 80-year-old woman saying, I really want to have kids.
Nope.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Now, a woman will gravitate towards an unstable and violent man if she's in an unstable and violent situation, social environment.
Yeah.
But it's highly adaptive to the...
For women to say, well, I just didn't know.
Bullshit.
I mean, like the guy, you know, said Harold and Ward was an old movie.
I saw when a kid, a young guy getting involved with a really old woman.
If the guy, you know, brings home the great-grandmother and says, all right, time for me to start a family, what would you say?
Crazy.
Are you kidding?
This isn't even bad comedy.
And so for a woman to say, well, I... I fucked him.
I got pregnant.
I had no idea he wasn't going to stick around.
It's laughable.
It's an embarrassment to anybody with any knowledge of sexual biology, evolution, and sexual economics.
It's ridiculous.
And so, you ask a woman, what do you think of single moms?
Now, she doesn't have to say, oh, they're all horrible people.
Of course they're not, right?
What you want to hear from a woman about single moms is, it's tough on the kids, particularly the sons.
That's what you want to hear.
Oh my God, does she actually have compassion for men?
Does she actually have compassion for boys?
Well, you can keep a ring on you and you slap it on her toe the moment you find a woman like that.
She doesn't have to condemn the single moms, although I'm never particularly averse to that.
But can she at least have some empathy for the children, particularly the boys?
Well, if she says, well, single moms are heroes, then she's just bought Marxist feminist propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
She's part of the decay and collapse of Western civilization.
And she'll use serrated lawyers to saw your balls off without any anesthetic, should you displease her in any way.
Because you want...
If you want to have kids, you want a woman who is empathetic towards children.
If you're going to have kids, odds are mostly 50-50, you're going to have a boy.
Have a couple of kids, most likely you're going to have a boy.
And if the woman can't think of anything positive that men bring to the world, how the fuck is she going to raise a son?
Yeah.
How the fuck is she going to raise a son if she can't think of, off the top of her tongue, any of the six trillion things that men bring to the world that are positive?
No, no, no.
You don't want her favoriting the daughters over the sons because she's bought all the propaganda about bad males.
Anyway, I could go on with this all day, but I think that's probably going to be enough to weed out Most of the non-starters.
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
Oh, you could ask, sorry, one last one.
Ask a woman, who's a man that you really admire and respect?
I can't think of any.
Well, let me introduce you to my silhouette.
And you're off like Wile E. Coyote, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, because, I mean, if she can't think of a single man she admires and respects...
Then she has no capacity to love the masculine.
None.
Holy shit.
Do you think she's going to learn that after getting married to you?
Your dick ain't that magic, my brother.
Dick don't do neuroplasticity, right?
Unfortunately not.
No.
We'd like to.
We'd like it if they could.
But I believe that's ear sex, and I believe that's illegal, at least in most of the southern US states.
No, you can't fuck with the minds, and you can't unfuck prejudice, right?
Yeah, what's a man?
Who is a man that you love?
Listen, from when I was a kid, I could tell you women that I respected and admired.
Unfortunately, they weren't in my immediate family, but I could certainly tell you them, and I retain and maintain my respect and admiration for most of those women from when I was a kid.
What do men bring?
What do men bring to marriage?
What do men bring to the world?
What are the benefits of men?
Who are men that you respect and admire?
What's your relationship like with your father?
And you will be shocked at how savagely broken gender relations are in the West.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean hopeless.
No, I actually never thought of approaching a woman from that angle in questions.
So it's a good thinker.
Look, you know she wants dick because you want pussy.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with that.
That's why we're all here.
I try not to rail against the things which have made me exist.
So, yeah, I mean, of course you bring penis.
And you bring resources and you bring status.
But you need to explore because masculinity and femininity are not the same thing.
And if she has no respect and admiration for the masculine, for men's fundamental desire to protect and nurture and provide for women and children, if she has no respect for that, you are doomed.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not just a matter of if, but when.
And I think if you, you don't have to tell me now, but if you were Sort of think about what your girlfriend slash fiance slash wife slash whore slash ex-wife.
Yeah.
If you think about what she would have said to those questions, you could have saved yourself a lot of time and heartache, right?
And money.
Yeah.
I actually made money on her.
I'm sorry?
She's the one who lost money.
How?
Because I don't have any.
She has plenty.
What, she lost money?
What do you mean?
Oh, so are you getting support from her?
No, no.
No one is supporting either, but she was the one who paid for most of the more expensive stuff.
Oh.
And then you wonder why she wanted to trade up, right?
Yeah, that's the thing also.
It's...
I know that the resources are very attractive to women, but I don't feel that for working for more than I want to.
And I think that will be a challenge for me, to meet someone.
Oh, because you don't want to make much money?
Yeah, who doesn't want to make much money?
But I find the passion in life, for me, is other stuff that generates directly money.
Did you want to have kids with this woman?
Yes, yes.
But you wanted her to pay for the kids?
No, no, of course not.
It would probably be a little bit more from her side.
But no, no, I would have to take my responsibility to it.
But that would be a sacrifice on my health.
It would be a sacrifice to pay for your kids?
No, no, no, no.
But that would be...
So, wrong put.
I want kids, and I would go the entire line to support my family.
That wouldn't be a sacrifice.
But it would be a sacrifice for me if I just started to try to get a more high-paid job just to support a woman.
Oh, just to support a woman?
Yeah.
You're supposed to support kids, right?
Right, right.
Got it.
All right, my friend.
Well, I hope this has been helpful.
And if not for you, certainly for other people, I'm sure it has been.
And just remember, listeners, if this saves you money on dates, if this saves you money on marriage and divorce and child support and alimony, kick a little our way.
It's how we survive and thrive.
So if you can go to freedomainradio.com slash donate, help us out.
Given how close we are to the Christmas season, we would really appreciate that.
Good to end the year.
On an up note, and we will talk to you on...
Well, this Saturday we're doing, right, Mike?
Nope, this Friday.
Friday.
No Saturday show this week.
No Saturday show, that's right.
No Saturday show, so we'll be doing one in two days.
And then...
What do we do?
Oh, yeah, we're doing Christmas Eve, right?
Yep.
Then we got Christmas Eve, December 24th.
Then we're doing Saturday, December 27th, back on the usual schedule.
And we're not going to be doing a show on New Year's Eve.
We're going to do a show on Thursday, January 1st instead.
A New Year's Day call-in show to ring in the new year.
It will be an especially loud show for all of those of you who've been drinking too much.
Don't drink too much on the 31st.
Stay safe, everybody.
Yeah, stay safe.
And don't drink too much.
I mean...
None of us have so many brain cells that we can afford to lose them in such silliness.
So don't drink up and see what it's like in your social circles when you don't drink.
There's a very quick way to find out what your social life is really like.
