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Feb. 13, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
44:36
979 Two Kittens, Two Cats (listener convo)

A listener gets some furry advice...

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Time Text
Hello? Hi, Seth.
Hi, how's it going? No, it's about the same.
No, it's about the same? Yeah.
But I think I hear you enough to talk about it for a couple minutes.
Okay, well, I thought that the thing to do, since with your permission and with your veto power, this may go out as a podcast, I thought it might be worth if you could just read the dream that you had a question about.
Yeah, it's something that...
And I'm sorry, could I just ask you to move your mic a little further away from your mouth?
It's kind of breathy. Okay, thanks.
It's something that I had a recurring dream and it resolved itself and it happened two weeks ago.
Last week I talked with my psychologist about it and I didn't really...
Get any kind of answer from her, and I'm not sure why I need some kind of answer from it, but the basic question I have for you is, what are the cats doing in my dream?
Right, right, right.
Okay, well, maybe you can read the dream and we can take a swing at it.
Yeah, I've had a recurring dream since I've been writing this paper, and the paper I refer to Is things I've been writing down to help draw out my past...
I'm so sorry to be annoying and interrupted.
Could I just ask you to move your microphone a little further away from your mouth?
It's just popping a lot in my ear.
Oh. All right.
Okay, thanks. Okay, the dream.
I'm in front of the computer, typing this paper.
As I take a break, I roll the chair back, swivel it around, and on the floor, close enough to where the chair, if it rolled back...
It would run over.
It is an animal.
An animal is only the size of my index finger, and it's covered with short, wide hair.
I bend, I stroke it, and a little kitten face emerges.
And this surprises me because it's too small to even be a newborn kitten.
There's no mother, so how can this creature stay alive?
And I had this dream four or five times, pretty much unchanged.
On the day I wrote this down, though, I was typing with a keyboard on my lap, and a large, long-haired, dark-gray cat emerged from under the computer table to my right, looked at me, stretched his body so his forelegs were on my right thigh, and nuzzled my right hand so that I would pet it.
While I petted it on the head, another large calico cat emerged from under the computer table to the left, jumped up on my lap and nuzzled and licked my...
I'm sorry, could you just repeat that last sentence?
You cut out. While I petted the cat on the right, another large calico cat emerged from under the computer table to the left.
It jumped up on my lap, it nuzzled, and it licked my face as I stroked its back and head with my left hand.
I took a break, I turned around, and the two large cats disappeared.
The small kitten was behind me again.
This time, though, it had grown to the size of a one-week-old and it was still blind.
I was surprised to see its size as I knew of no mother, no source of nutrition, and I hadn't fed it in my dreams.
I bent down, I petted it, and it started mewing and climbing around as if it was in search of its mother's tits.
A second kitten appeared next to the wall three feet away, and this kitten was maybe two months old, but not nearly enough to be the small kitten's mother.
The small kitten lumbered over to the older kitten, climbed on it, and the older kitten licked the smaller kitten as if it were its mother.
Then I woke up. And you always ask people what happened in the previous day?
Yeah. And what happened in the previous day was I finished writing another chapter in one of these topics for therapy.
And it was a chapter about how I almost committed suicide when I was 12 years old.
And I was sobbing with my head in my hands with my elbows on the computer table.
My wife came by, sat on the couch next to the computer table, and asked me what was wrong.
I told her I was feeling the pain in my childhood and she got up and gave me a box of tissues and walked away.
There aren't any cats or other animals in my house and there haven't been any pets where I've lived for over 30 years.
Back when I was living in a commune, I found out that I was allergic to cats.
Part of my conditions for living somewhere from that time on was that there were to be no pets.
And as I moved around the country, I eventually learned I was allergic to almost everything, pollens, animals, milk products.
And so we haven't had cats.
My children have often asked for pets, but I just can't do it.
When I was growing up, though, my siblings and I had a cat, a striped tabby, and when he died, I remember grieving over the grave when I was digging it.
And we later had a black cat.
And I remember treating both of our pet cats with kindness and playfulness, and that kind of surprises me now.
I thought that people petted and treated cats well.
And when I had moved houses with my family when I was 12, I bent over to pet a stray cat one day that showed up in our side yard and the cat attacked me and I still have a scar through the way up my right forearm from the attack and my parents didn't pay attention to it and so I never got the two or three stitches that would have taken to close the wound.
And what else happened the previous day was that I listened to your podcast about Procrastination.
And one of your points was that the natural responses to being ordered around is procrastination.
And I thought about it for a minute and I went downstairs to talk with my son who's now 13 and I just told him that we were no longer going to tell him what to do.
Anything he wanted to do, he could do.
My son was puzzled and he was happy.
He was jumping around the kitchen, kind of testing me, asking me to tell him to take his vitamins or to clean up his snack.
And that continued on for an hour or so.
And then he decided on his own to take a shower.
And when he came back, I questioned him about how he felt.
And he said he was feeling anxious.
So I think that his asking me to tell him things to do wasn't just joking around and I had hoped he was just joking around.
Because several times over the past year I've tried to get him to regulate his own time on video games, television, bedtime.
And the trial periods usually ended with me waking up after midnight wondering what the noise was and finding the TV blasting with him sleeping in front of it.
And this year I've tried to stay away from his homework except when he asked me for help.
But his teachers have been persistently emailing me about missing or incomplete work.
And so that was pretty much the end of it.
So, two significant things that had happened the previous day, and a third I didn't write on the board, which was, I was reading one of Alice Miller's books, which dealt with the dictator Kosko, and how...
The prisoners that were with him when he was in his 20s or so said that he had strangled some newborn kittens one by one, taking great pleasure in it.
So that had happened before my last dream also.
Right. And have you had...
Well, the reason I put this on the board was, you know, I couldn't really get anything from my psychologist other than, well, your dreams are going to be whatever you your dreams are going to be whatever you decide that they mean.
Right.
And have you had any thoughts about that since you posted or since you've just been reading now?
Any additional thoughts? No.
I think that maybe the large cats might be something that are eliciting my feelings, and this small little creature might be my growing and this small little creature might be my growing awareness of my feelings.
I would tend to say that that may not be the case.
And I'll put my usual caveats in here to say that everything that I say is nonsense, right?
It's just a theory. It's just a possibility.
And the important thing is what resonates with you emotionally.
But I don't think that this dream is about your inner life at all.
And I'm going to, not knowing much about your family history, I'm going to lay out a possible scenario, and you can let me know whether it fits or not.
So I'm going to say that, based on this dream, that you were a child when you were a kid, that everybody needed something from you, everybody wanted something from you to validate them, to comfort them, to support them, to feed them their ego and so on.
And this would be the case with your parents, and I would also guess that this would be the case with With your siblings, and I'm guessing there are two siblings, that you were the responsible one, that you were the one who shouldered the...
The responsibility of keeping the family's emotional life somewhat running, that you would comfort your mom and support your dad and then run over to support your siblings and so on.
That would sort of be the way that I would see the dream as having relevance in your life.
And of course, if that's not the case, then just let me know and we'll take another swing.
But does that ring a bell at all?
Well, every time I talk with a psychologist, I'm just overcome at how when I was a child that I was there for everybody, but nothing that I said was ever listened to.
I was just there to obey whatever adult or whoever gave me some kind of orders, and I was there to obey them.
Whatever they wanted me to do, I would do.
It's just a repeating pattern that was like that for decades after But it's more than...
And you just said something earlier where you said, I was there for everyone.
So if I understand this rightly, it's more than just you obeyed people.
It's more like you were necessary for them to function emotionally.
And just to give you an example so it's less esoteric, sort of from my own life, my mother had quite a needy side.
She needed a lot of propping up.
She needed a lot of support.
And yeah, she was dictatorial and abusive and all that, but she had a side where I needed to agree with her, I needed to provide her comfort, I needed to take her side, that there was kind of like a vampiric taking from her, which is of course highly, highly inappropriate in a parent-child relationship. which is of course highly, highly inappropriate in a parent-child But if I understand this right, and I'm really trying not to put words in your mouth, so of course just let me know what makes sense and what doesn't.
Your childhood was more than just about obeying people, right?
It was also about feeding them in a sense.
Well, I was an emotional sop for whatever people had, whatever needs that they had.
Right, right. And that's what I'm getting from the dream.
But I wanted to sort of verify that, right?
So whatever people needed from you, they would just demand from you and it would be more or less manipulative or with the threat or with the implicit threat or explicit threat of abuse if you didn't provide it.
And, you know, I sort of get the image, and this may not be particular to your situation, of, you know, the mother who's full of self-pity, sobbing and clutching an unfeeling child who can't get away.
Right. I'm sorry, we went blank there.
Oh, sure. Okay, what was the last thing that you heard?
A mother clutching a child.
Yeah, clutching a child, full of self-pity, weeping for herself, and the child needing to stay there because otherwise she'd get angry at him, but not really feeling anything.
Yeah. So that's not wildly off the mark, is that right?
No, but I have had problems so far remembering specific details.
A lot of the things I remember are outside the house.
All the happy times were outside the house.
I grew up in Miami. Sure.
Okay, well, let me tell you why I got this from this dream, and then you can tell me whether or not it makes sense to you.
So, you're sitting in a chair and you're looking behind you and you see something that is too small to be a baby cat or a kitten, but it is something that is newborn and needs sustenance.
And your first question is, where are the parents?
And that would indicate to me that the dream has something to do with Absent parents, right?
And what that would seem to indicate to me is, sorry, where are you in the birth order?
Sorry? Where are you in the birth order?
I'm second. I have an older sister who's a year and a half older, a younger sister who's a year and a half younger, and a younger brother who's three and a half years younger.
Okay, so this fits.
I was going to say that you probably have two younger siblings because there are two of these kittens by the end of the dream, right?
Yeah. Now, what was your relationship to your younger siblings?
Or rather, what I should say is, what relationships did your parents impose upon you with your younger siblings?
Were you allowed to play together or were you more of a caretaker or caregiver to them?
I think that my older sister was more of the one who was keeping the kids in line.
I don't remember having positive interactions with my younger brother.
I think I was really mean to him.
And do you remember why you were mean to him?
Well, for one thing, we were forced to sleep together and that always wrinkled me.
I mean, we were forced to sleep together from the time he was one until the time I was 16.
Right. And was that something that bothered you because you guys didn't get along in general or was there something else?
Oh, it bothered me because I couldn't get out of it.
Nothing that I said would let me sleep in another place, even though there were other places.
So even though there were other rooms available?
Yes. Okay, but why did it bother you in particular?
And I'm not saying it shouldn't have, I just want to sort of understand.
Was it because you and your brother fought all the time, or he snored, or what was it that bothered you particularly about sharing a room with your brother?
Well, all the kids were in the same room until I was 12, and then we moved to another house where my sisters got their own rooms, but my brother and I slept in the same bed in one room.
Oh, you slept in the same bed when you were 12?
Yeah, until the time I was 16.
Okay, that's completely bizarre, right?
Well, I remember complaining about it and, I mean, it's affecting me now.
I sleep with my wife on a king-size bed now and until recently, you know, I'd crunch up in like one-eighth of the bed.
I couldn't relax or stretch out.
It was, I mean, it's something I have to get over.
Right, right, right. Okay.
So, I'm going to just put forward a thought, because the one thing that is occurring in this dream is that you are giving and not receiving.
And that's why I sort of thought that it was around your family and how you were required to feed the emotional needs of those around you.
So, if the two kittens are your younger siblings and the two cats are your parents...
Then they're indicating a need for you, both explicitly and implicitly.
A need for you that is non-reciprocal, right?
So the kittens, obviously, they want something to eat, they're mewling, they need parenting, and you reach around and tickle them and so on.
And that indicates a need for you, for resources from you, that...
I mean, babies don't reciprocate, right?
They're greedy and they're selfish, and that's exactly how they should be.
And you mentioned that the calico cats that are on the desk are nuzzling your hand like they want you to pet them, right?
I have, yes. Sorry, that would seem to me to indicate that your parents would indicate that they needed something from you, right?
Yes. Yeah, that's the way it was.
Now, does that...
And I have no idea why it's cats.
I mean, that's all to do with your history and so on.
It doesn't particularly matter why it's cats.
But I think that is...
And I think it's important that the parents of the adult cats and the kittens have no connection whatsoever.
And you are the intermediary in a way.
Yes, the adult cats just disappeared.
Yeah, they just disappeared. And I was there to take care of...
They're not even taking care of their own kittens, right?
And you're the only one who notices that these kittens need taken care of.
Yes. So tell me what...
I think you felt something there but just tell me what happened no I didn't have anything to say there I don't think well Well, when I said that the parents were disconnected from the kittens or the children, you seemed to feel something or something seemed to hit you there.
Oh, yeah. I mean, in my dreams, I never had, here are these adult cats, and I didn't know the sexes of them, but here's the adults, and neither one of them are taking care of the kittens.
I'm the one who's taking care of the kittens.
Well, you're taking care of both of them.
Of both of them, yes.
Because you're petting the adult cats.
Yes, and there was no connection.
There was no...
The adult cats had no connection to the younger cats.
Right, and you are the only one who's in the dream, who sees the needs of both the kittens and the adult cats, and you take care of the kittens, and you also take care of the adult cats, and the adult cats are not taking care of their kittens at all, right?
No. So that's why I sort of said that it would seem to me there's like a middle sibling or elder sibling thing here where there was no bond between your parents and you and your parents and your siblings.
Yeah. And does that make you feel anything, or is that more of an intellectual...
I mean, it's not a criticism, I'm just curious.
Is that more of an intellectual association?
Yeah, I mean, I never thought of the cats in terms of my family situation when I was growing up.
Right. Now, the one thing that may sort of...
it may be why they are cats in the dream...
Is that cats are, you know, greedy little bastards, right?
I mean, cats are not like dogs.
They're not going to guard your house.
They're not going to fetch your newspaper or your slippers, right?
They don't have... They're not pack animals.
They don't have a reciprocal bond.
They are...
They're greedy, right?
They're takers. And there's nothing wrong.
I mean, that's what cats do. It's not a moral judgment, right?
But the reason why it would be cats and not dogs, I think, is twofold.
One is that cats are kind of selfish because they're not pack animals.
And the second thing...
Is that you're allergic to cats, right?
Yeah.
Now, it seems to me, based on the fact that you were considering or contemplating suicide at the age of 12, that that is like being allergic to your entire environment, or your planet, or your family, or your home, right?
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to talk about it here, but the whole thing was, we're moving but the whole thing was, we're moving from this old house, and I mean, there was nothing special about the old house.
It was on the path of Miami International's main runways, so there was planes flying overhead all the time.
It was too small. It didn't have air conditioning in Miami.
Sorry, I think I may have expressed myself too literally.
What I mean is that you were allergic to the emotional life of your family, right?
Like you were having a violent physical reaction.
You have a violent physical reaction to cats in the real world, right?
You're allergic. Yes.
And suicide is a violent physical reaction to an environment as well, right?
It's a toxic environment.
In this case, though, it would be your family, not the cats.
Yes, and that's exactly my feeling as a 12-year-old.
Right. Like I'm violently reacting to this.
Now, can you tell me if your older sister, did she act as a pseudo-mother to your younger siblings?
To some degree, yes.
And the reason that I say that is that there's another kitten that appears, and you say the smaller kitten lumbered over to the...
Older kitten climbed on it, and the older kitten licked the smaller kitten as if it were its mother, right?
So in the absence of parenting, right, with these two adult calico cats just having vanished, though they must have produced the kittens, in the absence of parenting, one of the kittens is pretending to be a mother to the other, right? Yes.
Does that ring a bell or ring true at all with your family experience?
Yes. Yes.
How so? Well, for my mother, the kids were an inconvenience.
It was more like her duty in the 50s to squat out kids, and it was interfering with what she wanted to do with her life, so she always had better things to do.
Right, okay, okay.
Yeah, so both your mother and your father had children, and not a few children, and then effectively vanished, right?
And the amount of, I mean, I don't think that emotional vampirism is too strong a term, but the amount of psychological and emotional and spiritual resources that were drained out of you by everybody else just using you, as you said, as an emotional sop, Made living unbearable, right?
Yeah, yeah.
It was really...
I mean, why would a 12-year-old want to kill himself?
Well, if we understand that the 12-year-old has been perpetually exploited by the family structure, of course, mostly the parents, right?
But if we understand that the 12-year-old has been perpetually exploited and is looking for...
I mean, nobody ever met your needs, if I understand this family structure correctly, right?
Nobody ever said, what would you like, and then strove to meet it, right?
No.
Right, and in the same way that a cat doesn't say, can I get you a latte, right?
I mean, it's true, though, right?
I mean, a dog will, if you fall down, a dog will come over and nuzzle you.
A cat will just sort of, I don't know, pee on your head.
It's not a reciprocal relationship, right?
Yeah. So it seems to me that this dream is telling you something very strong about your history, right?
That you were exploited, that your parents were absent, that you as siblings had to act as parents to each other, but that that did not particularly happen with you, and that if your family are cats...
In the dream, and you're allergic to cats in real life, then a strong physical reaction to the exploitation and greediness and neediness of your family would sort of make sense from that standpoint.
And of course, right, I mean, I don't know, have you read, I can't remember if you've read Real Time Relationships or not yet?
I listen, I listen to the Nine and a Half Hours.
Excellent, excellent. Okay.
So, in this situation, of course, since there's no reciprocity, you're treated as a slave.
And also, because there's no reciprocity, the feeling of giving but not receiving will be something, as I talk about in the example of Simon the Boxer, will be something that you will seek out, right?
You will be, in a sense, compelled to seek out.
And you said, I think, earlier that...
This non-reciprocal, quote, generosity of yours has been a pattern throughout your life, right?
Yeah, I mean, the more I talk about it to my psychologists, the more it repeats in my teens, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties.
Right, right. Right, and I think, of course, right, I mean, the reason that this probably happened is that you're getting closer to it, which, of course, is kudos to you.
That's good work, and I know it's hellishly hard work.
You're getting closer to it, and we have a significant example of non-reciprocity that occurred the day before your dream, right?
Yes. And what was that?
Say that again. And what was that?
A significant example of non-reciprocity.
Yeah, my wife unable to be curious about why her husband is sitting there sobbing.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by unable.
Unwilling? Well, I mean, you tell me, right?
I mean, is she mute?
Is she in a body cast?
Is she drugged? I mean, I'm not sure what you mean by unable.
No, I just didn't.
Right. Chose not to.
And of course, we can't blame her overly, right?
Because if you have an addiction to being ignored, so to speak, then that would have been built into your marriage.
That would have been part of the reason that you would have chosen her, right?
I mean, at least you got a box of tissues.
That's a step up from the dream, right?
Right. So, I mean, I don't want you to sort of feel like...
Because that's the danger when we look at our adult relationships is we feel like victims, right?
Like, woe is me.
My parents ignored me and now my wife didn't ask me any questions about why I was sobbing, right?
But, of course, if it's the case that you've become addicted to managing these feelings of being exploited and rejected, then that would be something that you have brought to the marriage, right?
So, in a sense, we treat people how to teach us based on how we respond.
It's possible. Again, I don't know, and it's not that important, right?
But it would certainly seem to me that this is a great step forward, because the dream is telling you that...
It's telling you that you're still a little bit blind to it, because you don't notice the non-reciprocity, but at least it's starting to become conscious, right?
Okay.
So tell me what, I mean, that's sort of all I had.
I mean, you can go on for hours about dreams, but that's sort of what the major thing that I would bring to bear.
And look, I mean, I'm not your psychologist or even a psychologist, right?
So this is entirely up to what works for you, but tell me what you think of this approach to the dream.
It's, you know, before I called, I didn't get any responses.
I posted over in a gold form, and it wasn't really all that unusual that dreams don't get responses because...
Yeah, nobody responds to them.
It's tough. People just don't know.
Yeah, they don't know. No, you have to have had a lot of experience with...
I mean, dream analysis is very tough.
And you have to have both an artistic bent, a strong capacity and experience with introspection, and capacity and experience with interpreting your own dreams.
And so it's a hard skill to find.
And as you see, there are very few people on the board who will...
Particularly with longer posts, right?
They're like, oh, it's a dream and it's three pages, right?
So that's probably why.
But I mean, I think you are right to pursue it insofar as it is an important dream.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why after three days of getting no responses, I felt like I need to know, but...
I don't know why I needed to know, but now I do.
But you understand that this dream provoked, kind of, and I don't know, I mean, because I obviously don't know you, but this could be considered somewhat of a breakthrough that you pursued your desire here, right?
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, and I think also the RTR, listening to RTR has been, has made it easier for me to just express my feelings.
Well, okay, as the author, I guess I can hear you tell me a little bit more about my book.
Go on.
I'll put up with that, I guess.
But go on.
Well, I'm having trouble thinking about it right now.
But I will write a review, okay?
Okay, well, I appreciate that.
Was there any part of the book that made you emotional or gave you a stronger response?
I'm having trouble thinking about it.
No problem. No problem at all. I mean, on the plus side, and I have noticed that, when did this dream arrive or appear for you relative to working through the audio book?
The dream happened before.
The dream happened before I listened to it.
And what day did you release the audiobook?
Around the 6 or so?
No, it was a bit earlier than that, I think.
Yeah, it was, I think, the 2nd.
The second. Yeah, I had this dream on Mozart's birthday, January 27th.
Ah, right, okay. Sorry, I just want to check when you posted this.
And the reason I have my own theories about...
Okay, so you'd listened to the RTR book when you posted about this dream, right?
Yes. So I listened to the RTR book, The Week of the Fourth.
Right, okay. And this may or may not be the reason, but I think it's interesting, and it may be relevant, that...
You actually expressed dissatisfaction with an authority figure, in other words, your psychologist's interpretation of your dream, that you said, this dream is important to me, I'm going to go and post it on the FDR forum, that lazy bastard Steph isn't writing back to me, so I'm going to continue to pursue what it is that I want, right, to sort of get my needs met, if that makes sense.
Yeah, and I think I'm scaring my psychologist too, because when she says stuff like, I was talking to her last time about, this is what I want out of therapy, and then I started talking about what I want, and How I don't want to forgive my parents and then that kind of shocked her.
I just don't have any reason to not get what I need or express my needs.
Right. But this is unusual for you, right?
It's unusual for you to be persistent in terms of getting me to talk about this dream with you.
Yeah. That's good.
Well, certainly, if...
I mean, if this slave...
the whole section on slavery that I talk about in the book, if that has relevance to you, and I think that it does, then I think that kind of clarity is going to help you shake that off a little bit, right?
Okay. Now, how do you feel about this conversation?
Do you feel that we've... I mean, has it achieved what it is that you want to achieve?
Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about with regards to the stream?
No, I think I'm going to have to change my shirt.
Right, right, right.
No, I know. Now, was that because you thought I was just going to start speaking in tongues or cussing or finally go nuts, or is it just because it's kind of emotionally intense?
No, I'm sweating.
I don't know why I'm sweating.
Right, right. Well, you have a lot of bottled up desire, right?
Right. I mean, you've had a whole lifetime, or at least some portion of a lifetime, not expressing your preferences, right?
So, these prisoners are always rattling the bars, right?
And the moment the door comes open, they come flooding out.
And that makes us feel very anxious, because when we expressed desires in our family, we got attacked, right?
Yeah, but now there's nobody...
I mean, the fear stood there, but the punishment isn't there anymore.
Well, sure, but the punishment is built in, right?
Like, I mean, it's like saying to the guy who spends 30 years in combat that if a car backfires, it's like saying to him, there's no point diving to the sidewalk because there's no guns here.
It's like, but that's not where the reaction is occurring, right?
Yeah, so I'm losing my fear.
Well, you're experiencing your fear, which is why you're sweating, which is healthy, right?
Because it means that you're challenging.
Like, if you break your arm and then you never move it more than two millimeters, it's not going to hurt, right?
But the moment you start to work it and try to regain your flexibility and strength, it's going to hurt like hell, right?
So when you start to express your desires and pursue what you want...
You're going to feel anxiety because in the past that always led to attack and it'll take a while to realize that that association is no longer valid, right?
Yeah, and last week when I talked to my psychologist, another thing that scared her was that I told her I didn't want to have any more sessions with her where I just talked about things without feeling them.
Well, that, of course, will be a challenge for you, right?
I mean, of course, right?
Because of your history. So, yeah, I think that's a good idea.
I certainly, my experience is that you, it's like, it's in a sense, it's like tying up word bundles and dropping them in a well.
Like, I know that they're impacting you because of the pauses and the alteration in breathing, but it's not like they come back up to me like a geister.
I kind of have to root around, if that makes sense.
Yeah. And of course, that's just an observation, right?
I mean, because it's always so hard to get feedback about what we're like to experience.
I mean, obviously you're a very deep and sensitive human being and intelligent and introspective, but the spontaneity of response is something that is a little buried for you, right?
It was essentially snuffed out.
Well, it was certainly driven underground.
I don't think snuffed out, right?
Because if it was totally snuffed out, you wouldn't be sweating, right?
Yeah. So definitely silenced, but not decapitated, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Okay, and is there anything else that you'd like to talk about while we're on the line?
No, but thank you and I appreciated also your RTR Squared podcast and the latest person calling in who just Just kept receiving emails from his mother.
Oh, yeah. I think I appreciated that you drove home points that you said before, but, I mean, I really understood the points once you had put them up and taken a sledgehammer to them and finally understood them.
Right. Repetition is core.
Repetition is core. It's very hard for us to get these messages Into our gut, right?
It's easy for us to get them intellectually, but it's very hard for us to really get them in our bones, and that's why repetition sometimes does come up.
I appreciate you buying RTR. I think that there's a televangelist show that I guess was on in the 80s or whenever called The 700 Club, and that's because when they first started out, there were 700 people who donated over a weekend, and that's what allowed them to keep going, and they called it The 700 Club.
So I'm very happy.
I mean, I'd be happy to reach 700 with RTR over the next month or two, but I'm very happy that you stepped up and grabbed a copy early on.
It's nicer than if you hadn't, so I do appreciate your trust in that matter.
Sure, and as soon as you get the hard copy back from Lulu and it looks good to you, then I'll get that too.
Yeah, thanks. I was not happy to have to push it back, but given that this is a book people are going to read more than once, I wanted to make sure it was as readable as possible, so I will definitely post about that.
Okay. Alright, well listen, thanks for being persistent.
I think it was a very good dream and what is your comfort level about this as a podcast?
Would you like to listen to it first or what are your thoughts?
Yes, I would, yes.
Okay, I will email you a link to it and then you can have a listen and let me know what you think.
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