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Sept. 15, 2007 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
18:25
864 Son Versus Naggers - A Listener Conversation

The futility and disrespect of nagging

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Hello. Hi, how you doing?
I'm good, thank you. Well, I'm not too good, but yeah.
Right, right. So, what's up?
Can you hear me all right? I sure can.
Okay. So, it was about a week ago.
I moved out of my room into my new room, into my brother's room, because he's gone to uni.
And then I had to clear my old room out for Wednesday, because my auntie was going to come and stay.
Uh-huh. Um, so, like, I had to organise it for, like, Wednesday.
And, like, my mum and dad, like, hassling me.
Like, well, to get it done for Wednesday.
And I said I'd get it done for Wednesday.
But they were hassling me every day to get it done.
And they were, like...
And, like, it was about on Monday, and my dad, like, came upstairs.
And he said, uh, I need to do the room.
He said, like, don't make me go down to your level.
Or, uh... Or else there'll be trouble, kind of thing.
Like, if you don't do that, or else there'll be trouble.
Right. And, like, it just...
That kind of...
I got really angry at that, and I was, like, writing, like...
I wrote it down, like, questions like, uh, what's my level?
And, like, why is it lower than my dad's level?
Uh, things like, uh, like, like, threatening me, like, or else there'll be trouble, and things like that.
Right. But then...
Okay, I lost something in my room today because my mum always goes in my room and moves stuff around and I lose stuff quite easily.
So then I was finding out where I was.
I asked my mum where I was today.
My dad got quite angry and came upstairs and we were trying to find it.
And he found it and he said, the problem is if I don't keep stuff organized, I lose it.
And I said, that's not really the case because I knew where it was until my mum came out of my room and moved it.
And so, and then I came up...
Sorry to interrupt. Why does your mum move things?
Um, I don't know.
Like cleaning or...?
Yeah, well, basically.
But, like, I asked him not to go in my room because, like, I know where things are and she tends to move stuff and then I lose them.
Right. And then, so basically then, we got into kind of, like, I confronted him about why, like, all the stuff that I wanted to confront him about about that time when he came up in my room on Monday and asked, like, said, like, I was at a lower level than him and everything like that.
But I've got like really like my voice got shaky and you know it's like I thought about it's kind of like if you've ever been like really scared like getting mugged and things like that.
Oh yeah for sure. I got like really nervous like it took me five minutes to get like a sentence out and things like that.
Right. I said to them I'm scared of you.
That's why I couldn't say anything.
And so then, he sees it as like, I need to do things when I'm asked to do things.
I can't do things on my own time.
And that's how society works, he said, kind of things like that.
And I said that wasn't really the issue.
It was kind of like, I was going to do it for Monday.
And we talked about this for like half an hour.
And when they come back, like later on, they're going to talk to me more about it.
Because they say it's like an issue of when I can get things done on time.
But... I don't know.
The thing that happened after, my dad went downstairs, and then my mom comes upstairs, and she's, like, storming around upstairs, like, slamming doors and muttering to herself.
And then she comes in my room and says, thanks for making everyone upset before I go out.
And I thought that was kind of really, like, I was just trying to say how I felt.
Like, it's not a very open relationship, is it?
If I don't get to say how I feel.
Well, I mean, of course, just to interrupt your story a second, the reason that I laughed when your mom said that was because, you know, you're allowed to be not trusted.
You're allowed to be put down.
Like, don't make me come down to your level.
You're allowed to be called irresponsible and quite thick, right, insofar as you don't seem to, according to your parents' view, even understand how something as basic as society works, right?
So you're allowed to be insulted and put down and called very thick.
But when you say that that's upsetting, you're upsetting everyone.
Yeah. So, I don't know.
I just don't know what to really do.
Yeah. I don't know what to say.
Sorry, if I can understand the general sequence, you were asked to clean your old room out for your aunt who's coming to stay, and you were given a deadline, right?
And the deadline was a couple of days in the future, right?
Yeah. And then what happened was your parents kept repeating their request to you, right?
Yeah. And how did that make you feel?
It makes me feel like I don't have any responsibility.
It makes me feel like I have to be reminded to do something.
Well, sorry, I'm going to interrupt you because you may not be in the habit of this and nobody really is.
But what is the feeling, right?
If you say, I feel that I don't have any responsibility, that's not really a feeling, that's a conclusion.
But what's the feeling that goes on in your body or your heart or your stomach or whatever when they keep nagging you to do something which you have committed to do long before the deadline?
It's stressful. I feel stressed.
I feel...
I don't know.
I feel...
How do I feel?
So someone comes in and says, Are you going to do that room?
Are you going to clean that room? Because your aunt's coming and you've agreed to do it and it's not done yet.
When are you going to do it? How does that make you feel?
I don't know. I feel...
I feel angry at them.
Okay, that's great. Good for you.
Good for you. See, this is something that you need to start getting into the habit of, right?
I'm not saying you don't, right?
But in this instance, this wasn't the case.
So you feel angry at them.
Okay. And why do you feel angry at them?
Because I said I was going to do it, and they're there to remind me that I'm going to do it, but they haven't even let me do it yet.
And so what are they really saying about you?
That I can't do it without being reminded.
Which says what? That I'm unresponsible.
That you're irresponsible?
Yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.
So, if you're irresponsible, right, and you just get blamed for it, then that is sort of a put-down, right?
Now, either...
I mean, it's one of two possibilities, right?
Either you are irresponsible, right?
Yeah. Or you are not irresponsible, right?
Now, if you're not irresponsible, clearly being called irresponsible is unjust and would make anybody angry, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
If somebody emailed me and just said, well, as they do, right?
They said to me, Steph, you're a cult leader and you're trying to manipulate people and you don't live with any integrity and blah, blah, blah.
Well, that makes me – actually, that doesn't make me too angry because that's just clearly somebody else's issues.
But if somebody says something to me that's unjust, then I'm going to be upset, right?
So there's one of two possibilities.
Either you are not irresponsible but you've been called irresponsible – Or you are irresponsible.
In other words, you would not have gotten this room cleaned by the time that your aunt came to stay.
In which case, your parents should know that you are irresponsible and they should try and find some way to sit down with you and figure out what your motivation is and blah blah blah and figure out what's going on.
So just to call you irresponsible...
Now, of course, if you totally were irresponsible, it would not bother you to be called irresponsible.
Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah. I'm getting angry, though, because I'm not irresponsible.
Right. So your feelings are, look, I'm not irresponsible.
And the fact that you guys are nagging me, what it does is, I think, it puts you...
The other reason why there's anger and frustration is that you end up in a very, very impossible situation.
And I'll just step you through it, and I'm sorry to be so accelerated, but I have to leave in about five or ten minutes, but I'm just going to step you through it relatively quickly.
You're put in an impossible situation.
So if I ask you to do something, and then five minutes later, I come in and start nagging you about getting it done, and I know I'm exaggerating, but just for the sake of effect, right?
Then you're stuck in an impossible situation, right?
Because the moment that you nag someone to do something, they no longer want to do it, right?
Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I actually say that to my mom sometimes.
Yeah, your motivation to do this job goes down the moment that somebody starts nagging you, right?
Yeah. And do you know why that is?
Because it makes it...
No, I don't know why that is.
Well, it's tough. It's complicated.
You get it emotionally, right?
Which is why you get angry. But if I ask you to do something, like, would you mind cleaning this room up?
And you say, sure, I don't mind doing that at all, right?
Then you are obeying, so to speak, your own internal commitment to yourself, right?
Yeah. But then if I come in and say, hey, how come this isn't done?
Get off your ass and go and clean this room, right?
Then I am substituting external authority for your own integrity, right?
And then you can no longer obey yourself in cleaning the room.
But you must end up obeying me to clean the room.
Yeah. Right?
So nobody likes to just obey somebody else.
Because that's humiliating, right?
So you no longer want...
You want to avoid the humiliation of obeying your parents when originally you were probably relatively happy to do it.
If it was your own choice to do it, right?
People will do almost anything you ask them to, and they will do almost nothing that you tell them to.
Yeah. I get that, yeah.
And the problem is that when your parents first ask you to do it, they put it forward as a choice that you should make and be responsible for.
But then if they then take away that responsibility...
Then that's very annoying, right?
Because they are not trusting you, right?
My parents would say that I can't be trusted, though, kind of thing.
They would say that I'm...
Well, but that's fine.
But you see, if you can't be trusted, then they shouldn't be giving you chores, right?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Right? Like, I mean, if I have, I don't know, like a five-year-old little brother...
And he can't be trusted to take my money across town and deposit it at the bank?
Yeah. Would I then say, here's my money, go deposit it at the bank?
No. Yeah.
And if I did that and he didn't get it right, could I then get mad at him if I said he was not capable of doing it to begin with?
No. Yeah, I get that.
Right, so your parents are saying to you by asking you to do something that you're capable of doing it.
And then what happens is they begin to feel anxious when it doesn't get done.
Yeah. And in order to manage their own anxiety, in order to reduce their own anxiety, they start to nag you.
Because they imagine your aunt showing up and the room is not clean and it's a disaster and she's going to frown and there's going to be a big fuss and they're going to look like bad parents and there's going to be a big fight.
Right? There's a big catastrophe.
So they feel anxious about the room not getting done.
And to manage that anxiety, they nag you.
Because there's a catastrophe if you don't clean the room, and they feel very anxious about that, so they just start to nag you.
But it has nothing to do with you.
They're managing their own feelings.
They're managing their own anxiety.
There's no objective or rational judgment.
Because the way that you teach someone responsibility is you give them the parameters and then you say, well, there are consequences if you don't do it, right?
So a rational way to approach it would be something like, well...
You know, first of all, you get agreement.
Like, do you sort of realize why this room has to be cleaned and so on, right?
And then you say, well, it's totally up to you.
There's no stress in it for me.
You can do it or not, right?
If you don't do it, your aunt's going to have to sleep in your room.
Yeah. Right? I mean, it's just some consequences.
Like, when I was a manager and I had employees, I would say, would you please do this?
And they would agree. Now, I wouldn't nag them.
And, right, it's just if they don't do it, then they might get fired, right?
It's like a child's never going to find out how hot a fire is until they put their hands in it.
I don't know. Well, sure, that's a possibility, but the way that you teach somebody responsibility, you don't have to get stressed about it.
You just say, here's what needs to be done, you've agreed to do it, and here are the consequences of not doing it.
But there's no stress involved.
You don't need to nag someone, right?
Yeah. And so, in a sense, right...
What's happening is your parents aren't giving you alternatives and consequences, right?
Yeah. So the real truth of the matter, as far as parenting goes, is that they're being irresponsible.
It is irresponsible to give someone responsibility and then take it away by nagging.
Yeah. Oh, they're going to be back in like a couple of hours.
Right, and look, my suggestion is, my suggestion is, I'm not even going to ask how old you are, but I know that you're over 12 because your voice is broken and blah, blah, blah.
I mean, the way that your parents are dealing with you would be how you deal with somebody much younger even than 12.
Yeah. But this would be my suggestion, right?
My suggestion would be that in order to differentiate yourself, These feelings.
You need to separate these feelings so that you know that your feelings are just.
So this is my suggestion.
When your parents say, do something, can you do something, can you do this, and you agree that it needs to be done and so on.
I assume that moving to your brother's room was a good move for you, so you want it.
And there are consequences to that in terms of cleaning up your own room.
Here's what I would suggest.
Just go do it. Don't wait for them to nag.
Don't put it off till later and so on, right?
Just go do it. And not because they're nagging you or they're going to nag you or to obey them or whatever, but just so when the problems do arise, and they will, you don't feel that the issue is murky because you're like, well, I guess I didn't do it for a couple of days, but I was going to do it and blah, blah, blah.
If you just go and do it right away, then when your parents start sniping at you or nagging at you for something else, you will feel more certain of your position, which is a great gift.
Yeah. Okay.
And not for them, right? Not for them, not to obey them, but for your own certainty and your own peace of mind, it's well worth doing it because you don't want to get involved in this unconscious war with your parents, right, where they tell you to do something and then you put it off because you're irritated that they're nagging you, which causes them to nag you more, which ends up in a big fight, right?
Because you can't win that fight.
You can never win against your parents.
So that would be my suggestion.
Just, you know, if they say go clean the room, I would literally, you know, put on a fine old podcast or something, right?
And just go do it right away.
And they'll start nagging you for something else because it's an anxiety management thing that they have.
But at least you won't get all wrapped up in this, that, or the other fight about, you know, when it was supposed to be done.
You can actually start dealing with the real issues, which is a huge gift, right?
And you don't want to get into a pattern of passive aggression in your life.
Where people tell you to do stuff and then you put it off, which makes them nag you, which makes you put it off more.
It's for your future that I'm most concerned about, not even so much your relationship with your parents.
But you don't want to end up with a girlfriend like this.
You don't want to end up doing this in your job or at school or whatever, in university or whatever.
Does that make sense? Yeah.
Because that's how I feel like, really.
I understand that.
It's perfectly natural and it's perfectly healthy to have had this coping strategy.
But I think that your parents obviously aren't going to change, right?
So you have to change the equation and you can do it for the benefit of yourself.
And there's always a part of us that says, well, I don't want to give my parents the satisfaction.
I don't want them to think that their nagging has worked, right?
But it's not for them.
It's for you, right? If you get up and do these things – and look, I fight this too.
Everybody does. We all want to procrastinate the stuff that we don't want to do.
But if you just get up and do it, then it's going to be a lot more clear where you stand with relation to your parents and it's going to be a really great foundation for your future.
Yeah. Okay.
All right then. Thank you.
All right. Listen, hold it over.
I'll send you this recording and you can let me know.
Okay. Think of it. I'll talk to you soon, brother.
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