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Dec. 27, 2006 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
40:14
572 Proofs for God
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Good afternoon, everybody.
Hope you're doing well. Staff 521 on the 27th of December 2006.
And I hope you're doing well.
I just had a thrilling day of grinding through a large amount of manufacturing industry data, importing it into a database and creating a pivot chart table and so on to be able to analyze it with more detail.
So, if you think you had it all day, let me tell you.
There are duller days to be had.
That's alright. Sometimes work is fun, and there's work.
Anyway, so I wanted to run through a couple of the formal...
Approaches to the existence and non-existence of God.
These are some of the more formal arguments that have been put forward by church elders throughout history, and some that are a little bit more, a little bit less formal, let's say.
So let's, without further ado, start off with some of the arguments that are put forward, which are supposed to be syllogistically able to prove the existence of God.
But just before we start, just before we start...
I just wanted to sort of mention that the one thing that I do find a little troubling about proofs of God is how staggeringly and unabashedly anti-empirical they are.
And what I mean by that is the existence of God is a pretty significant question in the universe.
Well, not really a question, but for some I guess it is.
And people...
People who are philosophers or theologians or anyone who's arguing for it, wishes to create an argument that is self-contained, that is a mere argument of language or logical so-and-so.
And... They wish to be able to establish the existence of a God sort of a priori, or without any reference to empirical reality.
That's always struck me as something very, very suspicious, to the point where you wouldn't have to take none of it seriously at all.
But this question of how do you go about proving the existence of God, it has to be something more than a language trick.
It has to be something more than a logical trick.
And that's something that's always sort of bothered me.
And almost all the arguments from God that you will see are based upon these logicas.
There is no empirical evidence for God, right?
Self-contradictory notion, no empirical evidence.
All you need to think about is that.
But just in case you run into a couple of more formally trained theological students or Christians who've heard these kinds of things, we thought we'd run through a couple of these.
So the transcendental argument or the presuppositionalist argument is this.
Reason exists. If reason exists, then God exists.
Reason does exist. Therefore, God exists.
And if you want a couple of hundred of these, you can go to godlessgeeks.com.
Look for godproof.html.
godlessgeeks.com forward slash links forward slash godproof.html.
Have a look at, there's hundreds of these, and I'll just go through a few of them on the drive home.
Some of them are fun, and some of them are funny, and most of them, all of them are ridiculous.
So, if reason exists, then God exists.
Reason exists, therefore God exists.
The existence of reason is something that is sort of a gray zone, right?
It's like the existence of the scientific method.
Reason exists, but not as an external thing.
There's no big box of reason that you can shake over your brain to learn more about reality.
So, reason does not exist in the way that the scientific method also does not exist.
So I would hope that if reason is considered to be something that exists, that people would sort of understand that reason being allowed to, being conceived of existing outside the mind is sort of an incorrect premise.
For sure. Therefore, reason exists in the way that God exists in the mind, except reason at least can be correlated with tangible empirical reality.
So at least there's something that reason conforms to, which is external to human beings, just as mathematics and so on does.
Reality. So that doesn't really make much sense.
The cosmological argument, which is also known as the first course argument, and there are a number of different flavors of this, I think these were all collated by St.
Augustine in the Middle Ages.
He says, if I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
I say the universe must have a cause, therefore the universe has a cause, therefore God exists.
And that is really to say that, we've gone through this once before, Something exists, therefore it must have a cause.
The universe exists, therefore it must have a cause.
That cause is God.
Well, of course, God exists, therefore God must have a cause.
And, of course, even if there was something that you accepted, which is the first cause of the universe, it could be a ticky-tocky Big Bang event.
It would in no way, shape, or form have to be an anthropomorphic god that you prayed to and received miracles from and had sex, I guess, through the year.
I haven't checked that out if you listen to 570.
But there would be no reason to believe that then anything like heaven or hell or anything like that.
Even if there was a first cause called a deity, you might as well say there's a first cause called a jabberwocky smidgen fist because it really wouldn't mean anything in terms of reality from that standpoint.
The ontological argument is I define God as X. Since I conceive of X, X must exist.
Therefore, God exists.
And this is the idea that there's nothing in our mind that we have never had any kind of experience of.
Since we can conceive of a deity, we must have had some experience of a deity somewhere.
This is also the world of Platonic forms and so on.
And so then there is the perception that because we have the idea of a perfect deity in our minds, that perfect deity said perfect deity must exist, and therefore God has proven oh so accurately to exist.
But that, of course, would hold true of anything.
It would hold true of unicorns and gremlins and ghosts and things like that.
Square circles, even. I guess I've got the concept just by taking two opposing concepts and stitching them together.
That would exist. And, of course, I can completely conceive of a universe without a god of any kind, without gods and devils and supernatural nonsense of any kind.
So, since I conceive of a universe without God, a universe without God exists.
So an atheist who believes that there is no God is equally accurate in his perceptions of the absence of a deity as a Christian would be in his or her perceptions of the existence of a deity.
So it's all just nonsense, right?
Just because something exists in our mind doesn't mean that it exists in reality.
I mean, we're not purely tabular essa, and of course we have the ability to abstract things in our mind, right?
So, you're looking at a pile of wood, the wood all has different lengths, but the concept of lengths does not exist in the world.
It's simply a measure within our mind that we put up against the stretch of wood.
To get a sense of the distance from one end to another.
So the concept length doesn't exist in the world.
It's merely abstracted from each individual instance of length.
So concepts don't exist in the world as we've gone over before.
So the fact that I can conceive of an infinitely good and benevolent and wise and so on deity does in no way, shape or form, indicate that such a thing actually exists.
Unless you're about to sign up for Starfleet Academy or Battlestar Galactica Camp, then I don't imagine that you're going to have much luck making that case.
Now, there's a more subtle ontological argument that occurs in the realm of God as well.
And it goes sort of like this.
I can conceive of a perfect God, but one of the qualities of perfection is existence.
Therefore, God exists.
So this is a little bit more tricky.
It sort of feels wrong, but as Bertrand Russell pointed out, it's a little tougher to actually find out what's wrong with it.
So the argument sort of goes like this.
I say to you, can you conceive of a perfect deity?
And you say, well, yeah, even if you don't believe it exists.
I say, well, but you don't believe that it exists, right?
And you say, no, I don't believe that it exists.
And then I say, well, one of the qualities of perfection would be that it exists.
Because something which is perfect that exists is actually and must be superior to something that is perfect and does not exist.
A million dollars in your head is not as good as a million dollars in your hand.
Something which exists is more perfect than something which does not exist.
So since you can conceive of something that is perfect, part of that perfection must be the admittance that it exists.
But that, of course, would apply to everything.
It would apply to the non-existence of God.
If somebody said, think of a perfect universe, and I would say, well, a universe that's mechanistic and full of energy and matter that conform to objective laws and so on, then there's no God there.
And they say, think of a perfect deity.
I'd say, well, I can't, because any deity would be horribly imperfect for me, so I simply can't do it.
But there's no reason to believe that just because you can conceive of something that is perfect, that that perfection necessarily springs into existence beyond your mind.
So again, these are just sort of little language and logical linguistic tricks that are all just kind of annoying, and once you get the hang of logic, this is sort of designed to flummox second-rate minds, right?
So this is not something that we need to take too seriously, but you may come across these arguments.
Well, God, and then there's a modal ontological argument.
God is either necessary or unnecessary.
God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary, therefore God exists.
Well, I don't think we even need to go into that kind of nonsense.
There is, and we'll get to that other one in a sec.
Okay, the design argument.
Check out the world, or the universe, or giraffe, or duck-billed platypus.
Isn't it complex? Only God could have made them so complex, therefore God exists.
This is the watchmaker argument.
If you come across a watch lying in the jungle, you don't assume that there is a watch but no watchmaker.
You wouldn't say, well, the jungle has spontaneously produced a watch.
There must be a watchmaker, and since reality, the universe, even a giraffe, is almost infinitely more complex than a watch, then surely there must be a watchmaker, and that is what we call God.
And as Dawkins points out, even the young Darwin was impressed with this argument.
The complexity of nature is truly staggering.
Look at the human eye. Look through the human eye.
But it's all nonsense, right?
Because Darwin, as some people have called the theory of evolution or the natural selection, the single best idea that has ever occurred to a human being.
And I think there's something in that.
I really do. I think it's an absolutely staggeringly wonderful idea that solved so many problems in one fell swoop.
But it would take a real theologian to look at what Darwin did and say, hey, he just had an idea.
Ooh, he was lucky he had an idea.
That's not the case at all. Spent five years on the Beagle and only figured out natural selection on the way back after they were chewing their way through their turtles.
But... Maybe we'll do a whole podcast on Darwin.
Absolutely central in the history of Western thought.
One of the greatest geniuses that ever existed.
And an excellent writer, frankly.
I mean, a very, very good writer.
Never underestimate the importance of linguistic talent in the communication of ideas.
If you are a good writer, you will do quite a lot.
It doesn't mean that you're going to succeed, but if you can catch a wave and you're a good surfer, then you have a great time.
If you're not a good surfer, you're going to get swamped.
And if you're a good surfer and there's no wave, then you just paddle in the shallows.
But I think linguistic talent is something that is very, very important.
A couple of good metaphors, the invisible hand from Adam Smith, the tripartite analysis of the Freudian approach to personality, which translates so nicely into the god, the devil, and the human beings, or the superego.
The id and the ego, there's lots of juicy stuff that works and resonates very well in the approaches that they take, but the metaphors that they use are all very interesting.
And if you can throw in a few party tricks as well, like Freudian slips and so on, then that's great.
But Darwin, of course, by coming up with the theory of evolution...
It broadsided and blew an enormous hole into this argument from design, because now there's a way of understanding that the adaptation of natural organisms to survive as best they can and to flourish as best they can under changeable circumstances makes a good deal of sense and explains the growing complexity and near-infinite diversity and complexity.
Of the natural world, and it's a beautiful thing.
It's a beautiful, beautiful thought model.
And it does sort of take God, if there was such a thing as God, it would take God as the first cause and make him almost the last effect.
Because the complexities that arise out of biological adaptation and survival of the fittest...
The complexities that arise occur at the end, right?
So the first single-celled organisms...
Life didn't evolve like, bing, there's a giraffe, and then devolve down to a single-celled organism.
It starts simple, and it gets more complex as time goes along.
And that is something that completely nukes the whole idea of God, right?
That you have something infinitely complex, like an all-knowing, all-perfect deity, at the beginning of things makes no sense, right?
Because... Entropy, in terms of the dissipation of energy, works in the physical realm, but increasing complexity is the natural law in the biological realm.
So something which is infinitely complex would never be the cause of life or evolution, because complexity only arises as a result of evolution, so you can't have God as a first cause in those kinds of ways.
Those kinds of arguments.
And of course, if you look at the design and the wondrous design, if you believe in sort of the design elements of the universe, then you have a slight challenge in explaining how an infinitely perfect god would build biological systems wherein 95% of all the species who have ever existed are now extinct, and there are 300,000 species of beetles.
That would be a little bit tough to sort of argue.
Argument from beauty, the design, the teleological argument.
This is also so poetic.
Oh, let us dance through the daisies with the deists.
Isn't that baby or sunset or flower or tree or podcast so beautiful?
Only God could have made them so beautiful.
Therefore, God exists. And you see these kinds of sentimental PowerPoints winging around the internet from time to time with trilly music and sunsets and this and that and God is in the flower and this and that.
Well, that's all very lovely and I'm sure it stirs petty people to emotional excess.
But you can transpose any of those with things that are vile and ugly.
That Monty Python song goes all things foul and horrible or something like that.
Argument for miracles!
It's a miracle!
My aunt had cancer.
The doctor gave her all these horrible treatments.
My aunt prayed to God, and now she doesn't have cancer, therefore God exists.
Well, that's just all too wonderful for words.
It's a little hard to understand why your aunt is the one who gets saved, but sadly, other people's aunts don't get saved.
This is just silly vanity, right?
That... Something happens.
Oh, maybe she did give up treatments and pray and had a spontaneous remission.
But the moment that somebody gets the leg regrown, as we've talked about before, we will be impressed.
Moral argument. A person X, a well-known atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
Therefore, God exists.
And you'll get this kind of bounce back quite a bit from Christians when you're debating with them or any other sort of religious people.
Because you'll say, well, you can have ethics without God, and they'll say, well, look at Chairman Mao, or look at Stalin, or look at Lenin, or these people were all atheists, and they were murderous, evil monsters, and this is what happens in the absence of God.
Therefore, God exists. Well, that's really an argument from a fact, saying that people are made virtuous through their addiction to fantasy, and saying that The one salient characteristic of a mass murderer is that he doesn't believe in God.
Therefore, all mass murderers must be defined by that single characteristic of not believing in God, and all non-mass murderers do believe in God.
Even if you could establish that as a criteria, it would still have to be the sole cause in a reproducible context, and it still wouldn't prove the existence of God.
All it would do is it would prove that a belief in the existence of God made somebody into a non-mass murderer.
And of course, none of this stuff can be true at all, right?
Because tons of mass murderers believe in God, Hitler, tons of mass murderers don't believe in God, the aforementioned, and there are many agnostics, and it's not a fundamentally, it's not a fundamental thing to say a lack of belief in God has any effect on morals.
So, that, of course, doesn't make any sense.
Now, this one I've heard before.
In fact, I remember having a good old tussle with a woman on a plane to Hawaii once around this particular area.
And it's something like, this is the born-again argument, or it's another kind of moral argument.
In my younger days, I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
This all changed when I became religious.
Therefore, God exists. Well, switching a destructive psychosis for a non-destructive psychosis is maybe vaguely better, it's hard to say.
But there certainly is a lot of this sort of stuff in the Born Again movement.
People just get so disgusted with themselves that they want to throw off their whole personality and take on a collective identity because they're just so disgusted with themselves.
Yeah, absolutely that's the case.
And you can go to AA and pray to a higher being as well, but that's not the same as becoming a rational human being.
If God helps you in particular, if being addicted to God...
Is better than being addicted, for you, than being addicted to alcohol.
That's fine, but don't pretend that the addiction makes something true.
Being addicted to alcohol doesn't make alcohol virtuous, and being addicted to God doesn't make God exist.
And this sort of thing is also, there's a subtle aggression in it as well, right?
Which is that, if you take away my God, I will go back to the ways of my youth.
And we'll talk about that tomorrow.
I'm just going to do a bit of a religion series because I really want to take this stuff on.
People are going to have to suffer a lot as we peel the sticky band-aid of God off the psychic wounds of humanity.
People are going to have to suffer quite a lot.
And not anyone that I know of has had the stomach for that kind of suffering thus far.
But I think that it's just something we need to stare down and take on.
And we'll sort of get into that in the morning.
Alright, the argument from creation, or the argument from personal incredulity.
If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it.
Moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
Therefore, God exists.
And this is the argument from intelligent design, of course.
Why do we have the appendix?
Because everything's so intelligently designed.
Why do whales have hind limbs?
Well, even though they swim in the sea, why do they still have the bones of hind limbs buried in their blubber?
Well, because God is testing our faith.
You just gotta love this stuff.
People don't like the idea of being ascended from monkeys.
Maybe they feel that they're all too pure and too good to be based in the biological, but big shocker, frankly, we are.
And people who don't have...
There's a wonderful quote from Bill Bryson in a book called The Walk Through the Woods.
I think he's talking about Arkansas and their opposition to evolution.
And he said that in Arkansas...
I think I've mentioned this before. It's a great quote, though.
He said, in Arkansas, people are not so much in danger of being descended from monkeys as overtaken by them.
I think that's a great joke.
Pardon me if I laugh for you.
But that's, as you get a chance, he's a very, very funny writer.
Short history of nearly everything is very, very good.
The argument from fear.
If there is no God, then we're all going to not exist after we die.
I'm afraid of that, therefore God exists.
Well, who even needs to bother with that?
The argument from the Bible.
One. Beep!
Arbitrary passage from Old Testament.
Two. Beep! Arbitrary passage from New Testament.
Therefore God exists. Well, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense.
The argument from intelligence.
Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid atheists.
It's too complicated for you to understand.
God exists whether you like it or not.
Therefore God exists.
Also known as the argument from intimidation.
The argument from unintelligence.
Okay. I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys.
You're obviously very well read.
But I read the Bible and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist.
I feel him in my heart.
And you would feel him too if you would just ask him into your life.
For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth.
Therefore God exists. Well, that's great.
This is, of course, exactly how we know that the Keebler elves make your cookies in Magic Land in your fridge.
Argument from belief.
If God exists, then I should believe in him.
I believe in God, therefore, God exists.
And that's just a wonderful wishful thinking, right?
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
This, most in history throughout the Christian world and very much in the case in the modern world, the argument from intimidation.
One, see this bonfire?
Therefore, God exists.
Oh, praise be to God!
I'm not going to get burnt up to a crisp.
You just tell me where to pray and I'm all over that slavish sky being.
Parental argument. One, my mommy and daddy told me that God exists.
Two, therefore, God exists.
The argument from numbers.
Millions and millions of people believe in God.
They can't all be wrong, can they?
Therefore, God exists.
Well, this is a very interesting question around belief.
And we've gone over this before, so I'll just touch on it briefly.
But... Belief...
Belief is different from indoctrination.
Belief is different from just everything that you're told and is bullied into you as a child.
Belief is something that people arrive at spontaneously.
Now, certainly, if you could sort of snap your fingers and get rid of religious belief the world over, and within 20 minutes or an hour, people had come up...
Like, you got rid of all religious texts.
You got rid of all religious belief from everyone.
If a billion people came up with all of the exact same rituals...
And if they each independently all wrote down the New Testament, then that would be pretty cool.
That would be a pretty strong belief that would be a little bit more than coincidence, right?
That would be a pretty strong way to prove that God existed.
In fact, if religious belief was wiped from the world and everyone spontaneously, without communicating with each other and without any third-party intervention, spontaneously sat down and wrote out the New Testament...
I'd be pretty far over to the God side of things, right?
That would be pretty remarkable.
So, belief is a very, very odd kind of thing to put into the realm of religion, because fearful indoctrination is not the same as belief.
Millions of people in the world over believe in God because they're punished if they don't.
Millions of people pay their taxes, therefore paying taxes must be virtuous.
Well, they pay their taxes because they're going to get thrown in jail if they don't pay their taxes.
So not looking at the force that is inflicted on children and the bullying that is inflicted on children to get them to believe in God, missing that out and putting it in the realm of mere willed belief is complete facetious and absolutely incorrect.
The argument from absurdity.
Therefore, God exists.
And this is like Tertullian's, I believe because it is absurd.
He was a real nutjob from the later Middle Ages.
And I think he castrated himself or something like that.
The argument from economy.
God exists, you bastards!
Therefore, God exists! The Doors argument.
D-O-R-E-S. I forgot to take my meds.
Therefore, I am Christ.
Therefore, God exists. Actually, that one I understand.
Argument from Guitar Mastery.
Eric Clapton is God.
Therefore, God exists.
And I'm sorry if you're under 25.
Ask someone who's older why that's even a little bit funny.
Argument from internet authority.
Somewhere out there, there is a website which successfully argues for the existence of God.
Here is the URL link. Therefore, God exists.
Ah, too tasty for words.
The argument from incomprehensibility.
Nobody has ever refuted that argument.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from American Evangelism.
Telling people that God exists makes me filthy rich.
Therefore, God exists.
Ooh, yeah. We'll go there.
Mitchell's argument.
The Christian God exists.
Therefore, all worldviews which don't assume that the Christian God exists are false and incomprehensible.
Therefore, God exists.
The argument from blindness. Atheists are spiritually blind.
Therefore God exists.
Argument from blindness.
God is love. Love is blind.
Stevie Wonder is blind.
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God.
Therefore God exists.
Very superstitious!
Argument from fallibility.
Human reasoning is inherently flawed.
Therefore, there is no reasonable way to challenge a proposition.
I propose that God exists, therefore God exists.
Well, of course, the proposer is as flawed as anyone else that he talks about.
The argument from smugness.
God exists.
I don't give a single crap whether you believe it or not.
I have better things to do than to try and convince you morons, therefore God exists.
Oh, if only science were that easy.
The argument for matter-smugness.
Fuck you. Therefore, God exists.
The argument for manifestation.
If you turn your head sideways and squint a little, you can see an image of a bearded face in this tortilla.
Therefore, God exists.
Slather's argument. My toaster is God, therefore God exists.
Don't get that one. The argument from incomplete devastation.
A plane crashed, killing 143 passengers and crew, but one child survived with only third-degree burns.
Therefore, God exists.
The argument from possible worlds.
If things had been different, then things would have been different.
That would be bad.
Therefore, God exists.
Best of all possible worlds.
If we'd been a little bit further away from the sun, or if we were a little bit closer to the sun.
Argument from sheer will.
I do believe in God.
I do believe in God.
I do, I do, I do, I do believe in God.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from non-belief.
The majority of the world's population are non-believers in Christianity.
Ah! That's just what Satan intended.
Therefore, God exists. The argument from post-death experience.
Person X died an atheist.
He now realizes his mistake.
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from emotional blackmail.
God loves you. How could you be so heartless as to not believe in him?
Therefore, God exists. Argument from sacrificial blackmail.
Jesus died for your sins.
Therefore, God exists. The argument from incoherent babble.
Hey, see that person smashing on the church floor, babbling incoherently?
See how infinite wisdom reveals itself?
Therefore, God exists. Oprah's argument.
The human spirit exists.
Therefore, God exists.
Oprah's argument, too.
Check out this video segment.
Now, how can anyone watch that and not believe in God?
Therefore, God exists. Calvinist argument, also known as Tertullian's argument.
If God exists, then he will let me watch you be tortured forever.
I rather like that idea.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from mass production.
Barbie dolls were created.
If Barbie dolls were created, then so were trees.
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from parochialism.
God is everywhere. Well, we haven't been everywhere to prove that He's not there.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from Uppercase Assertion.
God exists! Get used to it!
Therefore, God exists. Argument from Infinite Regress, a.k.a.
First Course Cause Argument.
Ask atheists what caused the Big Bang.
Regardless of their answer, ask how they know this.
Continue process until the atheist admits he doesn't know how to answer one of your questions.
You win! Therefore, God exists.
Argument from incredulity.
How could God not exist, you bozo?
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from history. The Bible is true.
Therefore, the Bible is historical fact.
Therefore, God exists.
The argument from resurrection.
Proof of God's existence will be available to you when you rise bodily from your grave.
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from biogenesis.
Oh yeah? Where did Adam come from, dummy?
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from steadfast faith.
A lot of really cool people believed in God their entire lives.
Therefore, God exists, man.
Argument from loneliness. Christians say that Jesus is their best friend.
I'm lonely and I want a best friend.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from argumentation.
God exists. Atheist counterargument.
Yes, he does. Atheist counterargument.
Yes, he does.
Atheist counterargument.
Yes, he does. Atheist counterargument.
Atheist gives up and goes home.
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from creative interpretation.
God is the feeling that you have when you look at a newborn baby.
The love of a mother for her child.
The little still voice in your heart.
Humankind's potential to overcome their differences.
How I feel when I look at a sunset.
The taste of ice cream on a hot day.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from insecurity.
We have gone to absurdly absurd lengths to establish that atheists are laughable morons.
Actually, we did so in the hopes of curbing our own insecurities about theism, but there's no chance in hell we'll ever admit that.
Therefore, atheists are laughable morons, therefore God exists.
Argument from superiority.
If God does not exist, then I am an inferior being, since I am not special in a cosmic sense.
I am superior, though, because I am Christian, therefore God exists.
The argument from absolute moral standards.
If there are absolute moral standards, then God exists.
Atheists say that there are no absolute moral standards, but that's because they do not want to admit to being sinners.
Therefore, there are absolute moral standards, therefore God exists.
Of course, we bypassed that one just a little bit here.
Argument from human necessity.
Atheists say they don't need God, which just goes to show that they need God, therefore God exists.
Argument from Hidden Logic.
Oh, it's going to have to wait while I change my lanes.
Isn't it amazing that I just memorized all of these to the sound of ruffling paper?
Intellectually, I know that the existence of God is impossible or vastly improbable, but I must put on the appearance of being cool and intellectual in front of my Christian apologist peers Therefore, I must pretend that one is false.
Therefore, God exists.
Let's just go with the short ones.
Almost done. The argument from hate.
Some atheists hate Christians and Christianity.
That's why they don't believe in God.
Pathetic, aren't they? Therefore, God exists.
Argument from Quentin Smith.
Quentin Smith says that God does not exist.
But God does exist.
Therefore, Quentin Smith cannot be accepted as an expert on this matter because he's wrong.
Therefore... God exists.
Argument from evil spirits.
I've just had contact with evil spirits.
Therefore, God exists.
Argument from Kent Hovind.
I don't know who some of these people are.
I don't want to work for a living.
I don't want to pay taxes.
I can get gullible fundamentalists to send me money.
I can use religious exemption claims to tie the IRS up in court.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from insanity.
No sane person Could have thought up Christianity.
Therefore, it must be true.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from exhaustion.
Abridged. Do you agree with the utterly trivial proposition X? Atheist.
Of course. How about the slightly modified proposition Y? Atheist.
Um, no, not really.
Since we agree, how about Y? Is that true?
Uh, no. And I didn't actually agree with X. With the truths of these clearly established, surely you agree that z is true as well?
No, so far I've only agreed with x.
Where is this going anyway?
I'm glad we all agree.
And then you go on and on and on.
Now that we have used propositions a, b, c, x, y, z to arrive at the obviously valid point r, are we agreed?
Like I said, so far I've only agreed with x.
Where is all this going? And then, so we conclude that the proposition L and L and J are true.
Agreed? I haven't agreed with anything you've said since X. Where is this going?
And it follows that proposition HRV, SHQ, BTU are all obviously valid.
Agreed? Atheist either faints from overwork or leaves in disgust.
Therefore, God exists. Mr.
Goodsalt's argument, also known as the argument from general inquiry.
Question for atheist population.
Apparently random question.
Your answer is wrong. Therefore, God exists.
Peacock, argument from originality.
I have written the following to demonstrate the existence of God.
Insert entire text of a William Lane Craig article.
Therefore, God exists. Argument from limited vocabulary.
You use a lot of big words.
Therefore, I cannot possibly be expected to understand your refutation of my position.
Therefore, God exists.
Well, I think you get this 300 of these.
And of course, I'm not going to die your patience by going through all of them.
But I think that you can get a sense of the flavor that goes on in these highly elevated circles of Christian inquiry.
And I hope that you have not experienced more than a few dozen of these.
I think...
I wouldn't want to say.
I've certainly encountered most of them in my times as an atheist.
And it really is just quite remarkable.
It is remarkable just how sad these arguments are, really.
How many word games there are, how much trickery there is, how much nonsense there is, and how there is no appeal to any kind of evidence, right?
And that's the thing that kind of drives me a little bit nuts about arguing with Christians.
And as I've sort of said, there's going to have to be a lot of discomfort floating around in the world as we peel this monkey off of people's backs.
There's going to be a withdrawal in the world that's going to make popping out of heroin look like cutting back on your coffee by 10%.
So there is going to be an enormous amount of agony, and you do get all of the passive aggression and the humiliation, right?
It's the self-humiliation that goes on in the realm of being addicted to somebody else's mere opinion.
That is a very hard thing for people to accept and to live with.
And it's very fundamentally something to understand when you argue with religious people.
It's really embarrassing.
To be religious.
It is really, really fundamentally self-humiliating and embarrassing to be religious.
And that's something that people have a lot of trouble understanding if you're an atheist.
Because we have a certain amount of intellectual pride and independence and rationality.
That's why we're so hard to organize, like herding cats, right?
But... People who are religious have just a crippling amount of horrible shame about it.
Because, I mean, deep down everybody knows the truth.
The reason that all these arguments exist is that people want to pretend that they're rational when they know that they're not.
And that's why there's the snarkiness, and that's why there's the bitchiness, and that's why there's the contempt, and that's why there's the hostility, and that's why there's all of this nonsense.
All of it is designed, really, to simply wriggle away from the arrow of truth going through an illusion, which actually then frees the human being trapped underneath.
Bad metaphor.
I'm not stabbing the person.
Let's just come up with some other metaphor some other time.
But this whole problem that accrues is that people have this horrible, horrible self-loathing that comes from being religious because it is such a fundamentally crazy and enslaved and self-destructive thing to be.
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