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April 6, 2006 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
30:45
180 Freedom Part 1: Romantic Freedom

How to take liberties with lovers ;)

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Time Text
Good morning everybody, it's Steph.
I hope you're doing well.
It is...
The 6th of April 2006, 8.45 a.m.
I just was on my way to work and realized I had to get some gas.
And, of course, I go to the pump.
And it's up here.
I have to put $89 into my car.
And, lo and behold, it is, in fact, $1.08 per liter.
I'm not even going to try and do the calculations for our American friends, but the technical term there is really frickin' expensive.
I think it's the way to do it.
It was 65 bucks for me to fill my car up, so... The sooner I can start dodging this commute, I think the better for all of us.
It's entirely predictable, of course.
They say that they're going to pay for the Iraq war.
The people in the government say that they're going to pay for the Iraq war by milking the oil.
And, of course, this is going to be cheaper and so on.
And, of course, given that it's a government prediction, you know that the exact opposite is going to occur.
Because if you're in the government and you have the choice to make a hundred million dollars for yourself or to deliver fuel five cents a gallon or a liter less to the consumer, I think I know which way most people are going to go.
And it's not because people are evil, it's just because the benefits are immediate and tangible and enormous.
And the benefits are diffuse and abstract and tiny per individual, so that's one of the problems.
Now, I'm not going to get drawn astray by my irritation at paying 65 bucks to fill up my car.
I am, in fact, going to continue to talk about personal freedom.
This morning will be relationships, this afternoon will be siblings, and tomorrow morning I hope to do parents.
Because, you know, it's nice to do a topic that I've never done before, such as parenting.
So, this is my basic approach to freedom in relationships.
Freedom in relationships is not the freedom to say what's on your mind.
Freedom in relationships is not whether to see people or not.
Freedom in relationships is exactly the same as freedom in science.
It means accepting universal absolutes as conducts of behavior.
Nature to be commanded must be obeyed.
Relationships to be free must be constrained.
And this is true, of course, of people's lives in general.
If you want to be free, then you have to constrain your behavior.
You have to not just pursue whatever tastes good, whatever feels good.
I mean, you have to have some constraint in your behavior.
I mean, I don't like flossing every night, but I do, because I don't want to have any problems with my teeth.
And so, I'm sure I've made this case at least a dozen times before, so I'm not going to continue in that vein, but freedom in relationships is obedience to morality.
That is what breeds freedom.
Now this is going to be a topic slightly weighted towards men for two reasons.
One is that men are the majority of my listeners although we're hoping to get more of the the gentler sex on board and we're slowly getting some more on the boards and I'm getting some emails in this way but men are the majority and also Because men are subject to a lot more negative propaganda about relationships than women are.
And so, the one thing that is absolutely important to understand in relationships, this is any relationships, but it really shows up in romantic relationships, is that anytime you accept a rule that is not universal, you are being controlled and bullied and manipulated.
This I will stand firm to, to my dying day.
Anytime you accept a rule or a conduct of behavior that is not universal, that is not universal, you are being bullied and manipulated and controlled.
Now, I have experienced this in the rather embarrassing number of relationships that I had before finding the woman of my dreams.
And even with Christina, which I'll talk about in a little bit, there was a challenge in this area that went on for quite some time.
But any time that I was in a relationship with a woman prior to Christina, they would have these rules for me.
You know, they would be like, well, I mean, one woman was, I find it more romantic when the man pays when we're dating.
And with another woman it was, you need to be chivalric, you need to be a gentleman.
But I'll get to the other side of the coin afterwards.
Another woman was, which I don't believe was ever true, another woman said, you have a bad temper.
Another woman said, you are emotionally distant.
I was always getting this constant cavalcade of complaints and criticisms and improvements.
You know, I was a fixer-upper.
I was like the house that maybe is going to have some charm after you've been working on it for five years, but right now is, you know, not a bad facade, but you know, the plumbing is all shot and the electricals are sparking and it just, it needs a lot of work.
I mean, the Boyfriend Renovation Project for Women seems to be an endeavor of near-biblical proportions, both in scope and rationality.
So, I felt that in my romantic relationships that there was an initial surge of attraction from the woman towards myself.
And then there was a lot of, you know, you're great, you're wonderful, and then slowly, and sometimes not so slowly, the woman would settle in for the inevitable nitpicking.
And this is not true of all women, because Christina is not that way, but I would say that unless I had a nitpick...
Gravity well where my heart should be sucking all these women in to start pestering me with the need for constant improvement or constant change or that I always should be a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right or a little forward or a little back just and never exactly where I was was enough where it was never Satisfying I was never approved of and I always felt that there was always this kind of
I guess you could say it's a kind of coldness, or a kind of distance from the woman, or a kind of criticality from the woman, and so on.
And as I got into my late twenties, I began to sort of start to figure out the first aspects of the argument for morality, which don't start with politics.
It's just easier to start with politics when you're talking about it with other people.
The first application of the argument for morality is in your personal relationships, as I have begun to... Well, it's talked about a bit before, but I'm going to sort of be a bit more straight about it now, because I believe that we're all ready.
But the first application of the argument for morality is within relationships.
So, for instance...
When I had a woman who was constantly telling me, and this would be like, I'm not saying that every time she opened her mouth, but it would be at least a dozen times a week.
There would be something that I needed to do differently.
I needed to make the bed differently.
I needed to do the dishes in a slightly different manner.
I needed to stack the dishwasher.
I don't know what it is with women and dishwashers and this whole stacking thing.
You know, it's like if you stack the dishes incorrectly, you're actually blighting their ovaries.
It's just bizarre, the amount of emotional... towels!
Oh my heavens!
Oh my heavens!
Towels!
I remember ironing something when I was much younger.
I was visiting a woman in Vancouver, and I was ironing something as we were going out.
She didn't have an ironing board, so I was ironing out on the carpet, and she hit the roof!
It was just amazing to me!
I mean, what could it conceivably matter?
Or, you know, I needed to fold my socks together this way and not that way.
Or I needed to fold my shirts this way and not that way.
I mean, those were the sort of minor nitpicky things that spoil a relationship the way that incessant flies and mosquitoes spoil a good hike.
In other words, you ignore them for a while and then you finally just lose it.
And I don't mean that you lose it like you get angry.
You lose it like you just...
Don't want to be in a relationship anymore.
Those were the minor things.
The major things were, you know, the things that women throw at men all the time, that you're not emotionally available, that you're distracted, that you're typing when we're on the phone, that you want to play a video game rather than listen to me complain, right?
Because it's not like... I love talking to women.
I think women have great viewpoints and fantastic perspectives.
But the endless level of complaints and problems without solutions, right?
I mean, there's this John Gray fellow who believes that men and women are completely different, which is nonsense because nature is designed to be compatible and the only differences arise from propaganda, as the only differences between races and cultures arise from propaganda and religions and so on.
He says that men want to solve problems and women want to talk about problems.
And I just think that's insulting to women.
I mean, I think women want to solve problems, too.
I think that the women who don't want to solve problems, who just want to complain about stuff, are just immature women.
It would be insulting to women to say that that is some sort of species of womanhood, rather than that is just an immature thing.
It's like saying that men who beat up on their wives are somehow men, rather than, you know, vicious bullies.
Of which, you know, if you look at the statistics, I mean, it's not like men have got women vastly outstripped in the area of domestic violent abuse towards your partner, or girlfriend, boyfriend, or spouse.
Because women, I think it's like 40% of domestic abuse cases are involving women, and women are incredibly violent within the home.
And it's certainly been my experience that women are much more verbally abusive than men.
And I don't just mean this sort of nitpicky stuff, I'm talking sort of more serious stuff.
Or you know the woman will be sort of nitpicky nitpicky nitpicky and complaining and negative and then she'll be depressed about something and then she'll have an endless rouse of complaints and then when you don't want to listen to that because it's sort of you feel like your soul is sort of being Drag down like a soap bubble in a bathtub being emptied down this whirlpool of nihilism, and you sort of dare to make some suggestions, then she says, you know, I just want you to listen.
I just want you to sit there and listen while she drones on and on about all the problems either with you or with your personality or with what you do around the house or with her friends or with her mother or with her job or with her career as a whole.
I mean, boy oh boy, that is just really hard.
And so it's kind of like a torture chamber, right?
Like you're bored, you're not allowed to speak, it's negative, but you can't leave.
I mean, that's really not a positive situation in any way, shape or form.
And again, I'm just talking about my relationships.
I mean, the degree to which you can generalize about women, I'm not sure.
But that is not freedom.
That is not freedom.
And I'll tell you sort of briefly why that is not freedom, obviously.
Because if the woman says that you need to be fixed, and that she has the right to ask you to change, then obviously she's saying that one person has the right to ask another person to change in a relationship.
And that person is then morally obligated to change.
I don't mean like fundamentals.
Fundamentals.
And therefore, given that the argument for morality, if any rule that you impose on others, you also impose on yourself, the rule of morality, the argument for morality, says, naturally and logically and flawlessly, that you should be able to ask the woman to stop criticizing.
That is the thing that I came to in my sort of late twenties, early thirties, once I began to sort of really figure out, with the help of some books I've mentioned before, Lip Service is a great one, with the help of some books and some just general thought, with no help from my male friends, who didn't have any idea how to challenge female authority in relationships, which is considerable, and we'll talk about that later too.
And so I began to say to the woman that I was with at the time, I began to say to her something like, well...
I understand that you want me to change.
I've made a list.
And I did.
I sort of made a list.
It was like two, two and a half pages of things that she had talked about.
And I said, this is just the stuff I can remember.
I'm sure there's more.
These are all the things that you want me to change.
Is that correct?
And of course she began to sort of pull the Christian thing, right?
I mean, you have to take it in context and not all at once and it's over time and not all of it is the same priority and blah, blah, blah.
And I said, well, that's fine.
But if I change all of this, And don't sort of let it continue like it stops tomorrow.
If I change all of this, then you will be content and I will be good enough and there will be no more criticism.
Is that right?
And of course she didn't want to say that because You know, it's like if you say to a Christian, if I prove this, this, this and this, then you're going to stop being a Christian, right?
Or if I disprove that or the other.
They're never going to say that because they always want to just have that angry will in the background where they get to do whatever they want and they don't want objective standards sort of written down.
This is the same woman with whom, when I was fighting, she was a big one for, if I didn't sort of obey or agree that I was the problem, then she would start raising her voice or she would get really, just really angry in other ways.
And whenever I said, you know, we have to sort of not have this voice raising thing, because that's not productive in a relationship.
And she would always come back to, eventually, like after a certain amount of hedging, she would always come back to, well, you have to not provoke me, right?
I'll be angry if you don't provoke me, right?
Ah, too funny.
I mean, looking back at it, it's just amazing the amount of propaganda that I'd swallowed about the nobility of manhood in a relationship.
It's just astounding.
Then, after showing this woman the list of what it is that she wanted me to change, which was obviously ludicrous.
I mean, obviously it was ludicrous.
So I said to her, well, it seems to me that you want somebody different.
I mean, that seems to me quite clear.
If you buy a sports car with a sunroof that needs a lot of maintenance, but you actually don't have any clue how to maintain a car, and you have eight children that you need to cart around a lot, Then you need another kind of car, right?
You don't take that sports car and try and turn it into an enormous minivan, right?
That's not right.
You actually get the list of what you want before you go shopping for a car.
You don't just pick up any old thing and then try and turn it into what you want.
And that was the metaphor that I used with her, right?
So it seems to me that given this list of where I don't measure up, And where it's problematic enough that I don't measure up that it is something that detracts from your ability to enjoy the relationship.
And I don't want you to not enjoy your relationship.
And she said, well, you just have to start working on these things and you can do it and then we'll be happy and so on.
And I said, so you're saying that there's this list of things that you have the right.
I mean, it's not like, you're not asking me.
You don't ask me like in a vulnerable way.
Like, would you mind changing these things so that I could be happier?
Because, you know, I mean, like most guys, I'm a nice guy and I will do a lot of what a woman asks me to if she asks me like it's a favor.
Right?
If she says, I would really, I mean, I know it's crazy, but it would just make me so happy if you could stack the dishes this way, and please, I'm so sorry for having these irrational preferences, but if you could, I would be so happy.
Then I would certainly look at that.
I mean, there's a certain number of those that I'll do and a certain number of those that I won't do, but I will certainly look at that as an option because somebody's asking me nicely.
Which, you know, makes quite a bit of a difference when you're looking for someone to do something for you.
But that was never the approach.
The approach was always the argument for morality.
The approach was always, always, always, what you do is wrong in some manner and it needs to be fixed.
See, when people do that, they're not asking you.
They're telling you in a scolding manner that you are wrong and you need to change your behavior in order to become a halfway decent person.
It's the argument for morality.
So, you know, with the dishes thing, I mean, it would be like stacking the dishes, and it would be, no, it needs to be this way, because something's going to be chipped, or something's going to be broken, or you can get more in this way.
And I'm like, well, yeah, I understand that, but I don't want to spend 20 minutes arranging the dishwasher just so we have to do one less load a month.
I mean, that doesn't make any sense to me, right?
And I sort of went through the math, right?
So I'm basically then going to spend two hours a month Which is, you know, important time for me.
Two hours a month rearranging the dishwasher, with you hovering over me telling me how to do it, which is not very pleasant for me.
In return for what?
One less dishwasher load a month.
I mean, at the outside.
So, she dropped that.
It's like, oh, things get chipped.
It's like, well, I think, I'm pretty sure, and I'm no manufacturer of dishwashers, but I'm pretty sure That they don't make the dishwater jets so violent that they're going to break or crack dishes.
I mean, that would sort of be bad for them as a company, right?
These firehose jets out there smashing up all your fine china would not be the best way, I think, to approach Building and selling a product which people want to buy.
I mean, you sort of wouldn't want to do that, right?
And then I asked her, what happened?
She's like, well, I noticed that two years ago there was a glass that was chipped.
And I said, did you notice it was chipped before it went in?
And she said, no, I mean, I just assumed that the dishwasher did it.
And I said, so we're kind of working on a pretty unproven hypothesis here, right?
And I was trying to be nice about it, right?
Just saying, okay, so maybe once every two years, a glass or a piece is going to get chipped, which costs 50 cents.
But in order to deal with that, you have to spend like 30 hours rearranging the dishwasher.
So it's two bucks for 30 hours, which works out to some ridiculously small sum per hour that you're paying.
It just doesn't seem to me to make any sense.
So we sort of went back and forth on that for a while, and I was sort of pointing out that I have reasons for what I choose to do.
And I was never able to gain, except with Christina, I was never able to gain any traction with those reasons.
Because then, whenever I began to sort of begin to prove my point in a way that was logically unassailable, where the woman had to admit irrationality, or just make some crazy claim, right?
So, if the woman had to say, yes, I think it's worth spending 30 hours a year to save 50 cents every two years.
Obviously she can't make that case, right?
And if she were to say, you're right, it's irrational, but I want you to do it anyway, then she would lose the argument for morality.
Then it would be a request for me to conform to her irrationality, which is a whole different thing.
She would lose the whole weighty club she'd been swinging the whole time in the relationship about why I had to do things because her way was better.
I was sort of proving her way was not better.
Her way was completely irrational.
And so what happened was then she switched tactics, right?
She switched tactics.
She would then say, why are you resisting me so much on this?
What is the big deal?
Why can't you just do it?
I mean, we've now been talking about this for an hour and it would be so simple if you just did it.
I mean, what is your resistance to this?
Why do you have such a problem with me just sort of making a request that you do something differently?
So the moment I began proving her wrong, I call it framing it, where you're no longer talking about the thing itself, you're talking about how you're talking about it, which is a tactic that I've noticed is pretty common among women.
You sort of say, I don't like it when you're raising your voice, and she says something like, well, you generally provoke me, or whatever, and you start talking about the generalities rather than a specific thing.
So if she's raising her voice and I say, please don't raise your voice at me, she'd be like, I mean, in general, you provoke me, and that's the problem.
So then you start talking about whether I provoke her, and then you're never actually discussing what's happening in the moment right in front of you.
So this sort of framing it is pretty important, and you get this with Christians as well, right?
You begin to really disprove the existence of God, and they start talking about, well, if there's no God, there's no reason to be virtuous, right?
So they're framing the whole discussion, right?
So if they're saying God exists because of logical reason X, Y, and Z, and you're just finishing off Z, they're going to start framing the discussion and change the argument completely about whether there can be ethics without God and so on.
And you'll get this with status too.
You start to prove the moral evil of the state, they start to say, well, without the state there would be more evil.
They start off by claiming that the state is virtuous, that the state helps people, and you start to disprove that, and the moment you get close to clinching the debate, then they'll instantly switch the terms and say, well, but without the state we'd have, you know, mass genocide or whatever, civil war, endless brute gangs, all this, but that wasn't the argument.
Right?
The argument is, is the state moral?
Now, if the state is not moral, you have to finish that argument before you start.
Like, you've got to make sure that you finish arguments with people.
Because if you can't finish arguments with people, if they continue to frame them at all times, then you're just being bullied and manipulated.
Just being bullied and manipulated.
Because when I'm making a rational defense of my own actions, the dishwasher or whatever, then the moment I sort of prove my case that she has in fact been asking me to do something that's patently absurd and she's been asking me to do it in a manner that indicates that I am inferior or broken or problematic or wrong in a fundamental sense.
If I don't do it, well, the fact is that she is wrong in a fundamental sense because she's never put two thoughts into figuring out How the dishwasher should be done, all she's done is she's wanted to bully me on the dishwasher, or everything else, and she's then come up with reasons.
It's the ex post facto justification, right?
You have a bullying impulse, and then you come up with reasons.
So not only has she been asking me to do something that's irrational, but she's been asking me to do it through a bullying mechanism, which is an unthought-out argument for morality, or an argument for morality which cannot be turned around.
Now that's pretty corrupt and she doesn't want to face that, so immediately she's got to stop blaming me for something else and distract me.
But to this woman's credit, I mean not credit exactly, but to help you understand, right, so that you don't think that people are just irrationally crazy, this woman's mother was about a thousand times worse.
So she'd actually made some progress.
I remember being over to her place once and she was trying to make toast and her mother was literally standing over her Spewing out a constant stream of petty vitriol about, Oh, do it this way!
No, do it that way!
No, the crumbs are going to get there!
Oh, get the plate first!
Where's the butter?
You know, that kind of stuff.
So this woman was a lot better than her mother, but she could not confront the irrational bullying streak in her nature.
And so whenever I would sort of slowly and patiently work through the logic of what it is she was asking me to do, Then she would simply start framing the discussion.
She would get angry about something else.
She would blame me about something else.
But to finish off the conversation about the list, the list of things I needed to change, what I did was I said, oh, you want someone different?
And she said, no, I love you, and blah, blah, blah.
And then I said, OK, so you would obviously be happier if there was one thing that needed to be done.
Like, if I only needed to change one thing, then you'd be a lot happier, right?
Like, when I've gotten rid of these 200-odd things and I'm down to the last one, you're obviously going to be 99.5% happy with me, right?
Because I'll almost be fixed.
I'll almost be complete.
I'll almost have gone to boyfriend school and graduated with honors.
And she said, well, yeah, I mean, obviously it's a big list.
I understand that it's kind of daunting.
And she was somewhat sympathetic.
You know, I hadn't realized that it was so big and so on.
And so I thought, ah, OK, great.
You know, we're approaching rapprochement.
We're going to solve some problems here.
How exciting!
I'm getting empathy.
Lovely.
And so what happened then was I said, I turned over the list and I said, no criticism.
That was sort of on the back of the last page.
And I said, that's my only list to you.
I know you've got 200 things that you want me to change, and some of them are fundamental.
Like, fundamental changes.
Like, be more emotionally available.
I mean, and I don't think that... I think that I was not, because I was protecting myself, not because I was sort of fundamentally broken as a human being and couldn't be emotionally available.
I was just scared.
I mean, this woman had a temper, right?
And so, I turned the list over and I said, the only thing that I want for you to change is no criticism.
I mean, that's all.
I mean, you want me to do things like change the way that I relate to my family, change my friendships, you know, like be a different guy around the house, do this or that, work full-time, and then take on half the chores when you're only working part-time, you know, silly stuff like that.
And be more emotionally available, and don't lose my temper, and blah, blah, like lots of things, lots of pretty fundamental things that are kind of active, that are going to require a lot of activity on my part.
And I'm asking you to do one thing, which is to not criticize.
So, she was obviously kind of shocked, right?
Because her father had never done this to her mother, which I think is a real shame, because if he had done what a man should, in terms of reigning in the innate female sense of natural authority and dominance in relationships, which has been sort of bred in the bone for the past 40 years, where all women feel superior to men in relationships and are bossy.
I mean, in general.
I actually asked this to Christina last night.
I was talking about this topic in preparation, and said, do we know of any couples who the woman does not feel innately superior to the man?
Kind of like, not exactly a doofus, but you know, like a pleasant and affectionate dog at best, you know, and that the women just sort of feel innately superior and that they can rattle off everything that the man needs to change.
And I said, and conversely, would you not also say that the women in general are not more successful than the men we know?
That was a bit of a tougher question to answer, but there was a trend that way for sure.
And I said, well, if we are allowed to ask for fundamental changes in each other's personality, then I sort of ask for one change, which is no criticism.
That's a change that I can live with.
That's a change.
And we take this 200 pages or 200 items that I need to change and tear them up.
Because I'm telling you right now, I won't do it.
I can't do it and I won't do it.
And I'm not even remotely motivated or interested to do it.
And I can't tell you how shocking it is to me that I actually allowed the list to grow this long.
I mean, that's lunatic.
And, you know, I apologize for taking this long to deal with the issue.
I really do.
Because it has not helped you that I have been exceeding to these demands for, you know, the time that we've been together.
So I absolutely take responsibility for allowing it to get to this point.
And I do apologize for enabling this behavior in you, which was not fair, which was not right, that I should have stopped this the very first time that it occurred.
But I didn't because of my own weakness and my own confusion in the issue, in the area.
And because every time I turn, I see that men need to be fixed and men need to be changed and men are not good.
And of course, I grew up in public school where the girls are all praised and the men are always in trouble and the boys are always in trouble.
And you're You know, you see every single sitcom, every single comedian, every single woman, every single person, every single marriage, every single relationship.
My own parents, you can see, you know, it's hard to think otherwise, but I've sort of recognized now that this is an issue that I cannot allow to continue in the relationship.
I mean, it doesn't mean I'm, you know, of course she was like, oh, don't you bully me, don't you, whatever.
I was like, yeah, I'm not...
I'm not bullying you at all.
I'm simply saying that this list is meaningless to me and I'm not going to change anything on this list.
And I certainly will be happy to talk more about what I can change if you make the change of no criticism.
If it's a one-way street, then it's no good.
If it's a one-way street, then I just feel kind of bullied.
Like, if I'm the only one who has to change and I can't make any requests for changes from you, then you don't have any real legitimacy in asking for them, because it's just a one-way street.
I mean, you can then say, I want you to change all these things, But I actually have no responsibility to change them, and you have to ask me like it's a favor, not like it's the right thing to do that I have to change for you.
Because if I have to change for you, then obviously you have to change for me.
And while you have 200 things that I should change, I only have one.
Because I actually like this woman.
She was a lot of fun to hang around with.
She had a great sense of humor.
She was very intelligent, creative.
There were times when we'd get along together for, you know, weeks.
It'd be great!
But this problem was always coming up, was always recurring.
And so that was what I had to say to her was, if the principle is that you can fundamentally change your partner and that you have the right to ask them to do that, then let's take this list.
And I don't mind if we both get one.
Like if you want to give me one, if you want to sort of make it equal and reciprocal, if you want to give me one, I'm perfectly happy with that.
So I say, no criticism, and you can give me one thing that you want me to change, which isn't obey the list.
You know, you can pick one of these 200 things which I can change, and then we can both make that claim for each other, and we're both then responsible.
But of course the conversation didn't go anywhere at all, because she didn't actually want to have any restrictions placed upon her.
She'd been to art school and university, and so she was pretty sensitized to what she called male dominance, right?
Which seemed to consist in any sort of request for reciprocal or equal or decent behavior on the part of both people, somehow translated to male dominance.
And that was what she sort of pulled out whenever I would sort of say this.
So yeah, it's not dominance, it's reciprocal, it's equal.
I mean, feminism wants the sexes to be equal, so let's be equal.
We either get to not change the other person or ask for it.
Or ask for it in a way that's not like bullying, and not like you've got to, you're a bad person if you don't.
We have to ask people for change in relationships, or we both get the right to demand it, but we only get one.
Because I only want one.
I mean, you're a great woman, but you've got this one thing that is undermining this relationship for me.
So I only want the one, and you get one too.
I mean, that's fair, right?
Why would you get 200 and I only get one?
Why do I only get 5%?
And she didn't openly want to say, because I'm so much of a better person, but there was definitely that implication.
All right, it's nine.
17, I'd better get to work.
I'll talk about Mother's Afternoon.
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