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May 29, 2024 - Sean Hannity Show
34:51
Leo Terrell - May 28th, Hour 2
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If you want to be a part of the program, closing arguments in the Sham Trump trial of New York, the defense, the way it works in New York, the defense goes first, prosecution gets the last word, and the prosecution just said before the break that they're only one-third of the way through their closing arguments.
Observers in the courtroom texting me that they're yawning and exhausted, even though they're being told that they better expect to stay late tonight.
One-third of the way through.
Okay, that means about four more hours that they will have to sit there, which brings us to like 8 p.m. Eastern.
Unreal, if that's what the case is going to be.
Anyway, so much going on.
The most shocking part of the prosecution's closing arguments have been the insane arguments they have made to rehabilitate Michael Cohn and even Stormy Daniels in this case.
I mean, a spectacular moment.
I mean, the fact that they feel the need to do this and the fact that, well, you can't blame Michael Cohen for stealing from Donald Trump, and maybe that's called grand larceny.
I don't know what they would call it legally, you know, because, or you can't blame him for selling merchandise, you know, because he has only this connection to sell.
What, a guy that's made $4.5 million from podcasts, two books, and I guess gifts that are given to him, if that's even included.
And then, of course, it even goes a step further.
You know, they're offering excuses for his lying, let's see, to the previous courts, Congress, his family.
You know, he's the one that said repeatedly to the media based on his own testimony that he alone made this decision without Trump's knowledge.
And, of course, the lie that he was caught in that the defense pointed out, the minute and 36-second call at a time when text messages showed that he was calling Keith Schiller at President Trump's defense, I guess, security person.
And then he calls Schiller at that time and then claims, oh, yeah, no, I talked to Schiller and then I talked to Trump about the whole Stormy Daniels thing.
And the week prior, he'd said, oh, yeah, they talked extensively about it.
That was the phone call he referred to.
So we got all of that done in a minute and 36 seconds.
Pretty spectacular achievement, if you ask me, and not one that's believable.
Anyway, Greg Jarrett, Fox News legal analyst, best-selling author, Roger Severino, Vice President, Domestic Policy and Heritage, Trump's former director of the Office of Civil Rights, and also a former Department of Justice civil rights attorney.
Welcome both of you to the courtroom.
Greg, I begin with you.
Pretty, how does the prosecution just dismiss away their star witness in this case?
And just, you know, oh, it's understandable that he, you know, that he took this money.
It's understandable that he lied.
Not a problem.
Okay, is the need so great?
I would have thought they'd avoid Cohen like the plague, but they're trying to rehabilitate him, which is that that is impossible.
I was told some jurors rolled their eyes when they heard it.
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me.
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass tried, I think, in vain to rehabilitate the Uber-discredited Michael Cohen.
It's a fool's errand, Sean.
There are too many lies to rationalize, too many sleazy maneuvers to try to cleanse prosecutors, taint themselves by aligning with a notorious Grifter and Connor artist.
They vouched for a convicted perjurer.
And the best that Steinglass could say about Michael Cohen is, and I'm quoting here, he doesn't lie all the time.
Really?
He doesn't lie all the time.
And then he made the other spectacular statement, you know, that, well, if Trump is such a liar, why didn't he go all the way and say that Trump slept with Daniels?
That's easy because he had already been on record saying just the opposite again and again and again.
And the idea, well, Cohen felt that Trump did him dirty.
Is that an excuse to steal, what, $50,000, $60,000, whatever the number is?
Yeah, I mean, it's an absurd explanation.
And I do think the defense did a good job taking direct aim at Cohen.
In his closing argument, Todd Blanch for the defense recounted 12 occasions, one by one, in which Cohen lied directly to the jurors during his trial testimony.
And that's on top of the myriad of prior lies he peddled at Congress, banks, special counsel, the IRS, the FEC government lawyers, and judges.
Cohen's sudden and forced admission to larceny on cross-examination tells me that, you know, he also lied to the very prosecutors who called him to the stand.
And I think the best line of the day was this stinging rebuke by the defense that should ring memorably in the minds of jurors.
Michael Cohen is the gloat.
He is the greatest liar of all time.
That will resonate.
That will be remembered.
And obviously that stung.
Could you think of any other rational reason why the prosecution would go so hard to try to rehabilitate and defend him?
Because I can't.
And then the spectacular way in which they're just basically, you know, he's understandably angry that, you know, he says that Trump did him dirty.
I mean, that's their excuse.
Then he tried to make the claim and sneak in that this was a Trump's direction.
The defense objected.
There's no evidence that was presented this was a Trump's direction.
Not one shred of evidence ever brought up in this case that said that.
And it is incomprehensible, Sean, that Bragg would rely on a chronic liar.
But the truth is, Bragg had nothing else.
The DA knew his star witness would lie even more when he slithered to the witness stand, and prosecutors wanted him to lie.
To me, that's supporting perjury.
Bragg and his acolytes could care less.
In their book, Honesty is for Chumps.
All they care about, Sean, is contorting the law, mangling the evidence to convict an innocent man for purely political reasons.
And then the conspiracy, Roger Severino.
Well, Cohn and Donald Trump's security guy, Keith Schiller, they knew each other well, and they spoke in coded language.
For a minute and 36 seconds, that was coded language and had nothing to do with the text messages of a panicked Michael Cohn upset about a 14-year-old prankster calling him.
Yeah, that's right.
That is simply unbelievable.
I think that the prosecution, they have to try to rehabilitate Cohen because that's all they got.
He is their star witness.
He's the only one who has said anything that is actually linking Trump.
And we know, just based on the titles of his books, Disloyal and Revenge, he cannot be trusted.
He's out to get Trump, and hopefully the jury is going to be able to see right through it.
Unless he's the world's fastest talker, you cannot say in 96 seconds about a harassing 14-year-old and then talk about his whole conspiracy about paying off Dormy Daniels in 96 seconds.
Here's one thing.
He's a liar.
He's a convicted liar.
The jury knows that.
But it's quite another thing when he lied to the jurors' faces.
And the defense was masterful when they exposed Cohen and showed him the text messages, and he started floundering, and it was obvious he was lying.
And he said, Well, I believe I spoke to him.
And the defense said, No, I don't care about what you believe.
It's what actually happened.
And when you're caught in a lie in front of a jury, that's just the end.
I was on a jury, and one of the defendants lied on the stand, and the jury flipped on him immediately.
And I think that's what happened here.
If there's any justice, the jurors are going to see right through it and say that they're star witness.
It all depends on Cohen.
Cohen cannot be believed.
He's lied habitually.
He lied on the stand.
He's lying now.
I think you pointed out, Greg, the 12 occasions that Cohen lied directly to this jury and the 10 reasonable doubtless that was brought up, the admission that he benefits from the outcome of this, that he wants Trump in jail, selling merchandise of Trump in jail.
You can't blame Cohn for selling merch or making money off Trump, that he feels Trump did him dirty.
Oh, I feel, by the way, Greg, you did me dirty, so I'm going to rob tens of thousands of dollars from you.
And by the way, whenever we speak, we speak in coded language, which is beyond the pale to me.
And look, as this day was beginning, I didn't have a great feeling in my stomach about this.
I just don't like the fact anytime you go in before a jury, you just really can't predict, Greg Jarrett.
I do not think this day has gone particularly well for the prosecution.
I think they have made things dramatically worse.
Yeah, I think you make a great point.
And this came out today during closing arguments.
Not once during the trial did the DA offer any plausible evidence that Trump intended to defraud anyone.
Instead, prosecutors invented this chimera.
It's an imaginary crime that exists nowhere in the law.
And in a normal case, Sean, with a neutral jury, the perversity of that shameful prosecutorial tactic would be obvious, and a not guilty verdict would immediately follow.
But here, Alvin Bragg and his confederates are betting the farm on a biased jury, predisposed to convict Donald Trump based on their own political views of the accused, despite no evidence of incriminating facts.
Any impartial jury would have little trouble rendering an acquittal in very short order, and it should never have gotten this far.
Honest prosecutors would never have brought such perverse charges or hung their entire case on a convicted perjurer.
And it is a sign of the desperation of Alvin Bragg that he brought such a meritless, perverse case.
But it's still a New York jury, Roger Severino.
That worries me.
Well, it's not just the jury to worry about.
It's the judge.
The judges have already ruled that the jury does not have to be unanimous as to what the secondary crime was.
So here's the order of operations.
They have to prove that Trump ordered Cohen to pay the money, that he ordered his business records to be, quote, falsified.
And this was all done to further some unspecified crime.
And the judges said that the jury does not have to agree as to what that crime was.
Is it campaign finance violations?
Is it state law?
Is it federal law?
Is it some sort of influencing of the election corruption?
We don't know.
Take your pick.
And for the judge to allow that, I mean, if he gets convicted, that's going to be ripe for appeal.
You can't be in the jury room saying, I think he's guilty of something, but we can't agree on what it is.
Let's convict him anyway.
That's just a kangaroo court.
And I'm hopeful that if he does get convicted, it could be reversed very quickly on background alone.
Well, let's get your take, Greg Jarrett.
In his zeal to wrongfully convict, Mershon has torn up a fundamental right, as Roger points out, that's embedded in constitutional principles.
The U.S. Supreme Court has said that unanimity in jury verdicts is required under the Sixth and Seventh Amendment.
That requirement extends to all issues, said the High Court.
So to find someone guilty, jurors must always agree without dissent on every necessary element of the purported crime.
That's an indispensable feature of jury trials, and it has vanished in this case thanks to Judge Marshon.
Alvin Bragg and Mershon together have worked to deprive Trump of a fair trial, robbing him of his due process rights under the 14th Amendment.
But is anybody surprised?
I'm not.
This case was never about criminality or fidelity to the law.
That was a gross pretext.
We know what this case is about, manipulating the legal system to delegitimize Trump's candidacy for president.
It's classic lawfare.
And Roger, you have a Biden donor judge.
You have the issue with the daughter.
You have a DA that ran on a get Trump platform.
We learn from Costello exculpatory information that he specifically gave the DA's office was withheld from the indicting grand jury.
We know the judges' actions against Costello and the former FEC chair to restrict their very important testimony.
Jury instructions, I'm sure, will all but be the judge convicting Trump right before the jury.
There's a reason, as Greg pointed out, all of this, all these people ahead of time, nobody wanted to bring the case.
They saw no case.
NDAs are not illegal.
Catch and kill is not illegal.
The star witness, a convicted, admitted liar, felon, and now they're trying to rehabilitate him.
Stormy Daniels, not exactly the most credible either when it comes to the four or five times that she said that didn't happen, including January of 2018.
Yeah, and the judge has put the defense on a tight leash in the closing arguments while letting the prosecution pretty much say what they want, a lot of other grounds for appeal.
Remember, Trump was not indicted for any campaign finance violation.
He was not indicted.
They're trying to litigate something that's not before this jury, and the judge is let him get away with it.
And let's not forget what this is designed to do.
Not only is it designed to interfere with an election, they're going to do it by whatever happens to distract Trump from campaigning.
Look at how much time he's had to dedicate sitting in this sham trial day after day after day instead of campaigning.
And that's another big part of this story.
You have the gag order that's been imposed on him.
His argument is that he's going to reform the justice system.
This is a miscarriage of justice that's happening in real time, and he can't fully talk in his defense.
All these people to try to stop him from retaking the White House.
That's what this is all about.
It's not about law.
It's not about crimes because it doesn't exist.
He's we have to let you go.
Greg, you're staying with us.
Leo 2.0 Terrell will join on the other side.
Court is resumed.
We'll give you updates as they happen.
Hey there.
I'm Mary Catherine Ham.
And I'm Carol Markowitz.
We've been in political media for a long time.
Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.
That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.
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We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.
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Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.
Hey there, I'm Mary Catherine Hammond.
And I'm Carol Markowitz.
We've been in political media for a long time.
Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.
That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.
We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.
We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.
So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass.
You're our kind of people.
Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.
All right, we've got a lot of ground to cover.
The closing arguments of the prosecution has continued.
It's been a desperate Hail Mary up to this point, but they're only about a third of the way through.
The judge has instructed the jury that they will probably stay later into the night.
I'm sure that's making them feel great.
Not sure exactly what the point of it is, except maybe to muddy the waters.
We'll get analysis, Leo 2.0 Terrell and Greg Jarrett as we continue.
Hopefully we'll get your calls in as well.
Driving the liberals nuts.
Sean Hannity is back on the radio right now.
All right, 25 to the top of the hour.
Defense about, I'm sorry, prosecution about, oh, I don't know, 35 minutes ago or so said, well, we're only about a third of the way through closing arguments.
The judge instructs the jury that they'll be staying late tonight.
I'm still not sure that they'll even be able to, you know, get all of that time in.
They're talking about six long hours.
And now after they've been done trying to rehabilitate Michael Cohn, which is task impossible with the most outrageous justifications for crimes, you know, now they're trying to rehabilitate Stormy Daniels.
And I'm not particularly convinced that that's going to work well either.
You know, it's, well, after the Access Hollywood tape came out and became national news, phone traffic exploding between and among Keith Davison, Dylan Howard, Michael Cohn, and Trump.
Okay, where's the evidence?
An NDA is not illegal.
We keep going over this again and again and again.
And nor is catch and kill for that matter.
And remember, this law that this novel legal theory would require intent if you even buy into this insane theory that the judges allowed.
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Anyway, what a day it's been in the courtroom.
Oh, Steinglass says defendant is a savvy businessman.
Well, he wasn't savvy enough to know that Michael Cohn was robbing him and stealing from him.
Anyway, we bring back Greg Jarrett, Fox News legal analyst, best-selling author, also Leo 2.0 Terrell, attorney, civil rights attorney, also in his own right, best-selling hat seller, a merch seller in his own right, because, you know, according to the defense, you can't blame Cohn for selling merch and making money off of Trump and admitting that he's going to benefit from Trump's conviction and selling Trump mugs and t-shirts with Trump in jail.
You know, well, Cohn felt like he did him dirty.
So, what, that's okay to lie about him?
That's okay to, you know, make money off him.
Unbelievable.
Anyway, Mr. Leo 2.0 Terrell, sir, welcome back.
How are you?
You watching this sham all day?
I've been watching it from, unfortunately, this painful farce.
It's not a trial, by the way.
It's a political Democrat witch hunt.
If anybody had any doubts, you saw the circus with Robert De Niro and company.
This is purely political.
But what I honestly believe, Sean, I've been a lawyer for 30 years.
I've been a trial lawyer.
I think Jury already got the facts.
Attorney's closing arguments, not evidence.
But I'll tell you right now what I'm hoping for.
Notwithstanding the one-sided judge who's in the back pockets of the Democrat, I'm putting a lot of confidence in these two attorneys who are on the jury.
Because you know what?
They know what facts are.
And they know they have an ethical obligation as attorneys to do the right thing.
And I hope they can see through this.
But Leo, one of those attorneys is a DEI attorney.
That scares me.
That means as hardcore left as you can get.
Well, I'll tell you right now, Sean, there's something about that jury box.
And Greg will tell you there's an obligation to uphold justice.
On top of that, let me be clear.
Most lawyers do not want lawyers in the jury box.
But I honestly believe you got a lying witness.
The only witness the prosecution has, Michael Cohen, he's lied from here to Sunday.
And there's no credibility whatsoever.
There's no evidence against Trump.
So what I'm saying to you is there's no way you get a conviction, notwithstanding what the judge has done to the defense.
And I'm just hoping that these two lawyers rise above the nonsense and do the right thing.
Look at the testimony in Cohn's own words that he admitted that he was telling the media that he did this on his own, Greg Jarrett.
Now, on top of all of his other credibility issues, being exposed now as a thief on top of an admitted and convicted liar and everything else in between, you know, which Donald Trump are you going to believe, I'm sorry, which Michael Cohn are you going to believe here?
The one that's saying that Donald Trump knew everything or the Michael Cohn that was telling everybody he did this all on his own, didn't tell Trump?
Well, jurors, I hope, will trust nothing he has to say.
In addition to the dozen.
Well, let me stop you because I want to interrupt.
If they do conclude that, does this trial then likely end differently than maybe those that thought there would be an easy conviction think?
Yeah, it absolutely should.
As long as they're following the law, notwithstanding the bastardization of the law by Judge Juan Bershan.
But, you know, jurors do tend to try to take their duties conscientiously and follow the law.
And I agree with Leo that having a couple of lawyers on the jury, and I've always kicked him off, the jury in cases I tried.
In this case, I think you really can benefit if you're the defense from a couple of lawyers.
They will see through the smoke and mirrors, this charade, the sham of a case brought by Alvin Bragg and his Confederates.
And, you know, maybe you need some background in the law to be able to recognize this for what it truly is.
You know, this is a case that is based on an expired crime that's no crime at all, a mysterious secondary crime that was incognito until today's closing arguments.
And a lying witness and a convicted perjurer is also a thief.
I mean, that is the sum and substance of the inane criminal case brought against Donald Trump.
And I think it finally fully came into focus during the closing arguments as the lead defense attorney Todd Blanch pierced the veil of this charade by dismantling many of the aspects of the DA's farcical prosecution.
What's your take, Leo?
I agree with Greg 100%.
I want to tell you a perfect example of this, Sean.
I don't care in any case, there's a jury instruction that says, if you disbelieve a witness in an area of his testimony, you can disbelieve everything.
Todd Blanch has shown that Michael Cohen is lying in front of the jury.
He's a thief.
He admitted to being a thief in front of the jury.
This guy lied to the prosecution.
And what I find so obvious in this case is that besides the fact that this judge is in the pocket of the Democrat Party, I've practiced law for 30 years.
I'm a pretty good trial lawyer.
Never in my life have I seen the defense being handcuffed without having the jury, without being able to talk about the jury instructions.
I mean, when you do close your argument, you say, look, the judge is going to instruct you on the jury on the instructions of the law.
But let me tell you what I see here, how our facts comply with the law.
And they have been defenseless without these jury instructions.
This is, again, the reason why I think these two lawyers are critical, critical, John, to the defense.
Well, I mean, I guess it would be too much to expect, Greg Jarrett, in a venue as prejudiced and as biased against a Republican or somebody with the last name Trump as New York City, that you're going to have a fair venue.
I said from the very beginning of this entire case that there's no way that you're going to get a fair trial in New York or would you get a fair trial in D.C. or get a fair trial in Fulton County, Georgia?
I think I've been more than proven correct here.
You have a Biden donor judge.
You have the issue of the daughter.
You have a DA that ran on a get Trump platform.
You know, we learned from Bob Costello exculpatory information that he specifically gave the DA was withheld from the indicting grand jury.
The judge's complete meltdown in actions versus Costello or not letting the former FEC chair actually explain the law and how it's not applicable here, which is why the FEC, the SDNY, the DOJ, and every other jurisdiction wouldn't go near this.
And Bragg's predecessor wouldn't go near it.
Bragg himself wanted nothing to do with it until he was embarrassed.
A misdemeanor, statute of limitations, long past novel legal theory that allows a city jury's jurisdiction to become what, an upgraded federal elections felony?
The star witness, admitted, convicted, liar, now thief.
NDA's naughty illegal, catch and kill, not illegal.
Stormy is allowed to drone on about salacious innuendo.
It's all irrelevant, immaterial.
You know, Costello can't even impeach their star witness.
We can't get expert legal testimony.
You know, perhaps the greatest line of this trial so far is the gloat line, the greatest liar of all time, Michael Cohn, the star witness.
No wonder they're spending all this time trying to rehabilitate him, Craig.
Oh, you're right.
And what Bragg has done in using Cohen and others is he's weaponizing statutes, not because the law has been broken, but because the accused poses a political threat.
The real threat is unscrupulous prosecutors like Alvin Bragg.
He has forsaken his duty to see that justice is done.
And remember, prosecutors are armed with immense powers.
In Bragg, he's become a law unto himself.
He created the illusion of wrongdoing to annul Donald Trump in an end that justifies any means.
And I'm reminded of the great Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, who said the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal.
He was talking about, and he feared, people like Alvin Bragg.
Under color of law, Bragg seeks to oppress.
He seeks to imprison an innocent person for political reasons.
And where the law ends, tyranny begins.
And Alvin Bragg, together with Mershon, are tyrants.
They have misused and abused our legal system for all the wrong reasons.
It is unjustifiable.
It is shameful.
And they must be roundly condemned.
What's your take, Leo?
I'll tell you, Sean, this is a wake-up call, and I just think of what Trump said at every rally.
If they could do it to him, they could do it to every one of us on this radio program, to all your listeners.
This is a key point in our legal system because not only have the Democrats hijacked this New York courtroom, they hijacked the entire legal system in New York and other Democratic towns.
And what is the only safeguard right now, short of this November 24 Trump election, is the Supreme Court and some judges that still believe in the rule of law, i.e.
Eileen Cannon, who told Jack Smith, go where it doesn't shine with that requested gag order.
I mean, I'm telling you, the Democrats will go back into their little cubbyhole and say, we've got to get the Supreme Court because that is the saving grace of our rule of law right now.
And that is what's protecting Trump and every American in this country right now.
It's really an unbelievable time.
What do you make of the fact I'm being told by people in the courtroom that the jury is bored, that they're not seeing anyone taking any notes anymore?
It seems like I would interpret that as, okay, we've heard enough.
Can you please move on?
Yeah, it is a sophomoric mistake by Prosecutor Steinglass.
Less is more.
And, you know, any trial attorney is experienced, has learned that the hard way.
You cannot seek to replicate the entire case.
You have to pick and choose.
You have to synthesize it to its bare essence and hit the high points.
Don't try to hit every point because you will alienate the jurors and minute by minute, hour by hour, as it goes on, you're just going to piss them off to use plain language.
And they'll hold it against you.
And, you know, if they're on the fence, that can make the difference.
All right, let me ask the unfair question.
And it's totally, completely unfair.
We're not in the courtroom, but I've said from the beginning, regardless of the outcome here, I don't think Trump got a fair trial.
So here's my question.
How does this end?
Leo, we'll start with you.
Oh, I think I'll be very clear, in my opinion.
I think at the worst scenario for Trump, it's a hung jury.
That's the worst.
I do not see a guilty verdict.
And I think there's an outside chance that he could be acquitted on all these charges.
But I would say hung jury.
I don't see any chance of acquittal just based on the venue and observations told to me by people in the courtroom about the jurors.
But I do see a chance of a hung jury.
But I have to hold out.
This is New York, Greg.
I would tell everyone, prepare for the worst.
Yeah, well, you know, you and I were discussing this before, and I said guessing at the outcome is a feckless, stupid endeavor, especially in a crooked case.
That's why I said it was an unfair question.
I didn't say my question was fair.
I said it was unfair.
But you know what?
I'll take the bait, and my best estimate is a hung jury.
You know what?
A hung jury in New York City is a massive win, in my view.
I'll take it.
I hope you're both right.
I really appreciate both of you.
Greg Jarrett, Leo 2.0 Terrell.
Thank you both.
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Now, former congressman and gubernatorial candidate from New York for the Republicans, Lee Zeldon, he is a Trump legal surrogate.
He's going to join us as well as we continue.
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